Afternoon Reading: Taxes on Short Sales, More Delinquencies, TARP Fraud
Submitted by
CalculatedRisk on Mon, 03/15/2010 - 1:04pm (230 comments)
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It is important to remember the Federal exemption only applies to "money used to purchase, build or fix up a home". That exemption makes sense - and California will probably fix the current tax law.
Only to the extent that the borrowed money isn't fungible.
TARP = Fraud against the American taxpayer
"So how are you gonna fix the wasteland? Or are you going to crawl into hole and ignore it. "
Probably the wasteland is going to fix us sooner or later. Some excellent future Ted will find an old biology book underneath tons of shit and figure out an excellent idea that Gatorade ain't good for the plants. Few pages later the excellent future Ted will get the idea that his tribe wisemen are actually just dumb shits.
Then merely 5-10 tribal wars later everything will be just fine and ponies will once again live happily ever after. Future Excellent Ted will be up there with the Jesus and Gandhi.
Delinquencies, taxes, and fraud.
I wish I could say that's not all in a normal afternoon's reading these days.
Bob Toll will get all the taxes on short sales collected by California due to his lobbying efforts.
Friends I told to take a walk in late 2008 did great, except for the HELOC tax bill of $50k that came in the mail about a month ago, about a month after they decided to get a divorce...
It wasn't a bailout it was a rescue. And it's not DEBT, it's CREDIT!
i posted the link to the LPS report before, I am telling you it is worth a read, it is powerpoint form with a lot of nice graphs. As I have been saying forever, the mortgage market is getting worse, not better, thanks to the government intervention. That is why I say HAMP = FAIL, it has encouraged people to default.
The market is gonna clear, one way or another, there is nothing the government can do to stop it now, they can only make it worse.
http://www.lpsvcs.com/NewsRoom/IndustryData/Documents/02-2010%20Mortgage%20Monitor/Pres_MM_Jan10Data.pdf
California's broke and there's no reason in the world for the state to get further into the hole bailing out people who rocked the home ATM. Let them pay their fair share of taxes.
And when California cannot pay back the loans it took out to pay for its repairs and upgrades?
Diana Olick said:
If they really plan to cover everything that has failed in a single day, I hope they've got a handful of auctioneers lined up to do the talking.
Fortunately for them, the second part of their report won't take them more than a couple of minutes to run through.
Angry Saver wrote:
"It's not a bailout, it's a buy-in" anyone else recall that quote? That is when I knew we were irretrievably :screwed: (hey, it worked the last time!)
She should register for CR. We've covered a full disaster to the current state of the housing market.
Battle of the Bums! In one corner, Sacramento's genuises that jacked up expenditures 150% on more or less the same number of jobs - in the other, the MEW junkies that thought the good times would last forever.
DING
Rob Dawg wrote:
I'm sorry, could you repeat that question in Greek?
ghostfaceinvestah wrote:
Lots of great data visualization there, gif - for example, the graph on slide 37 - the FICO transition for FHA...
Ὁ κύριος θὰ πληρώσει γιὰ ὅλα!
...I feel positive that the truth fairy will show up with $11 Billion to repair our water infrastructure
__
____
______
Αυτή η οικονομία είναι περισσότερο ευάλωτη από το μηρό του Λιζ.
[This economy is more fragile than Liz's femur.]
the market always clears.but is there not an argument to be made to allow that to happen latter rather than sooner? It seems to me that there is a perfectly valid argument that having the real estate market find a clearing price in the middle of massive run on the banking system is not the best option.
Also the map slide on p 16
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
"Peripheral Canal II" ≠ "repairing infrastructure"
Stephen Friedman needs an indictment.
Homeowners were told by Greenspan to view their homes the same way congress views the taxpayers; as commodities. Congress's favorite pastime is swiping the debit card at the taxpayer ATM machine and handing out cash to themselves, buddies, business partners, future employers, family..... Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery
Do you have any idea how hard it is to leave that much money under a pillow?
I predict we will learn that someone's infant child or pet received at least $1m in TARP money.
Greetings from Sin City/Lost Wages.
I took a walk through Bellagio and the new Aria last night. The tables are busier than I expected.
Both hotels are chock-full of luxury retailers, but the Aria shopping district is mostly boarded up with coming soon signs for the lux retail. It's really difficult to imagine how many instances of these the town can support, but adding more at Aria seems like it has to take a bite of the others. The City Center architecture is quite nice, and rather airy compared to other recently built properties. I talked to a few people who tried to book rooms at Aria, and they said the rates are stupidly high. Their plan seems to be to cater to the very wealthy.
Beautiful new art galleries in a wing outside Aria, and across the street, another art gallery about to fold with a "50% to 75% off" sign in the window.
The streets were pretty crowded yesterday with people milling around. Nice weather yesterday and predicted for the upcoming week.
The other buildings around City Center were mostly dark, with a few lighted rooms. The buildings appear mostly complete but not open, probably because the interiors are not finished.
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
Tungsten in cheek?
Rob Dawg wrote:
Or brass in pocket?
Mook wrote:
I am not sure if this covers it, but here goes: Και όταν η Καλιφόρνια δεν μπόρει να πληρώνεί την ανακαίνώσείς που έκανε;
The semi-colon in Greek is a question mark? Lots of questions remaining here in Greece.
Rob Dawg wrote:
What? What happened? Did Liz break her leg?
From the Reuters report on Park Avenue Bank president's indictment:
The prosecutor said Antonucci's "supposed investment was the functional equivalent of monopoly money." Bharara described additional components of a complex fraud, including a line of credit through a company called "Easy Wealth;" overdrafts to companies controlled by an unidentified co-conspirator; leases on personal property paid by the bank; a counterfeit certificate of deposit; and a $100,000 defrauding of the pastors of a church in Coral Springs, Florida.
You can't make this stuff up.
[manufcturing.net] FREMONT, Calif. (AP) -- The United Auto Workers union has reached a tentative agreement to shut down California's sole remaining auto plant which employs 4,600 people.
The terms weren't disclosed Monday but will include payouts for workers at the Fremont-based Nummi plant which is slated to close on April 1. ...
Toyota plans to move production of the Corolla to Canada and Japan and the Tacoma to Texas.
Juvenal Delinquent (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Mon, 3/15/2010 - 5:00 pm
Israel has had them since they developed them in conjunction with apartheid South Africa, and has never seen fit to use them despite the fact that they live an existential crisis. They have never declared openly that one of their enemies needs to be wiped off the face of the earth. The same cannot be said of Iran.
Big wahooza...
The very same could be said about us, post-Nagasaki
Bob Shallit: IRS visits Sacramento carwash in pursuit of 4 cents
It was every businessperson's nightmare.
Arriving at Harv's Metro Car Wash in midtown Wednesday afternoon were two dark-suited IRS agents demanding payment of delinquent taxes. "They were deadly serious, very aggressive, very condescending," says Harv's owner, Aaron Zeff.
The really odd part of this: The letter that was hand-delivered to Zeff's on-site manager showed the amount of money owed to the feds was ... 4 cents.
Read more: Bob Shallit: IRS visits Sacramento carwash in pursuit of 4 cents - Sacramento Business, Housing Market News | Sacramento Bee
Anecdotal:
Was talking to a guy I know who does metro Phoenix CRE deals and apparently the bottom is in. Average cap rates have improved slightly, refinancing has taken off(as long as you have tenants) and insurance companies are starting to lend again @ around 6.5% except for multifamily housing which the FedGov is the lender of last resort. He also thinks Laveen and Maricopa will go TU and Tesco's Fresh and Easy chain will fail because it was more about buying the CRE than an actual food play.
Yes, scone. ll broke her femur. Check the previous thread.
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
Are you trying to say Iran = America? Really!?
OK, to continue from the last thread, are there any questions (not insulting or belittling) that I could put on my 19 year old nephew's facebook site that would encourage him and his friends to THINK, to take a look at the world around them, to ask how the current state of affairs will play out, to ask what role a man should play in dealing with the situation as it is and as it will develop? And, maybe, to ask about his place in the universe?
19 is too old to continue being so childish.
Anonymous Bosch wrote:
Oh, dear, oh, dear. Assemble, food ladies! Soup!
We haven't used a nuke in 64 years, that's all i'm saying.
No way, a Bankster charged with fraud? I can't believe what I'm seeing.
However the exemption doesn't apply to those who used the Home ATM for toys or trips ... that debt forgiveness is taxable by both the federal government and the state.
Ah, yes the Leona Hemsley addendum for us mere peasants: "taxes are for the little people." She was punished for speaking the truth . Double standards are the law and never apply to the wealthy owners of the congressional lap dogs.
Loans delinquent/in foreclosure process: 7.5 million
That is a lot of free living pumping up PCE.
That last one is interesting, because it shows how much faster loans are going bad than are being modified.
The word is getting out on the 12 -18 months of free living with little or no penalty. The foot dragging in 2009 (and 2010) to keep loans marked at par so banksters could collect huge bonuses will make the end total much worse.
black dog wrote:
Back out the unemployment/underemployment effects for that free living... give it say, a 50% haircut at a minimum.
We haven't used a nuke in 64 years, that's all i'm saying.
You must have slept through Independence Day.
Pellice, I've never considered trying that on facebook or myspace. They're for keeping up with lighter interests - twitter with a little more space and a dash of video. Doesn't mean the Great Issues don't get discussed, just not there.
Liz, Hope you heal fast and well
Hopefully you are out of there before you get too frustrated with the laptop.
burnside wrote:
Who knew that arbitrary text entry limitations would be the incarnation of newspeak?
@ Liz
Get well!
Cinco-X wrote:
The palestinians would declare your statement to be wrong.
Test of times-
Come April, will $500 iPad sell for 10K on Ebay?
I'm blown away that so many young people are polishing their Gregg Shorthand skills...
digalert wrote:
The picture on the story that CR linked appears to be a Perp Walk.
If this is the first one, maybe we should have a pool or a photo gallery or some suitable commemoration. I'm guessing this won't be the last.
Yeah, it's not like we just got concision, is it?
black dog wrote:
At 1500 a month a pop, that is 11.25B a month, I believe that exceeds unemployment benefits.
So mortgage delinquencies are a bigger benefit that UE.
Crazy country we live in.
"They have never declared openly that one of their enemies needs to be wiped off the face of the earth. The same cannot be said of Iran."
Iranian leaders never said that. They implied that Israel will suffer the same fate eventually as DDR or apartheid South Africa. Two biggest troublemakers in the Middle East are USA and Israel, always messing around there and making things worse. The classic case of "don't do what we do but what we say". Add to that: "he said something bad, we must kill him!".
Back out the unemployment/underemployment effects for that free living... give it say, a 50% haircut at a minimum.
Dat true. But what is the percentage of strategic defaulters living large.
THE NEW POOR; In Hard Times, Lured Into Trade School and Debt - NY Times
I know you guys like to dump on the edu
. 
black dog wrote:
Yup, as I said many times, the high delinquency rate is leading to even higher delinquencies.
ghostfaceinvestah wrote:
So, will someone decide to tax that?
yyOU ALL ARE TRES SWEET!!
tALKed last year to friend of son going for an MBA. suggested there might be a teensy problem there. kid had no clue.
Casey Serin is still committing multiple felonies and documenting them on line without a peep from the authorities.A small fish,granted,but a worldfamous and very rotten fish.
burnside wrote:
I wish I believed that. I wish that I believed that these men and women (and at 19 years you ARE a man or a woman) were discussing what was enduring and what was not, what was just and what was not, what was real and what was not. At least a little. I see not a hint, not a clue. Anyway, I'll stop being OT, just had to vent.
@LawyerLiz
Best wishes for you.
energyecon wrote:
Yeah, but figure the average mortgage payment (PITI) is 1500 a month. That usually represents 35% of gross income.
UE will cover, what, 30% - 50% of income for the average worker?
Collecting unemployment and not paying the mortgage and you are't much worse off than before from a cash flow perspective.
Why are the
wearing potatoes? Or conversely, why are the potatoes wearing 
?
http://de.trinixy.ru/pics4/20100309/podborka_65.jpg
Edit: The discussion was on the tile page: Who Is Focusing On The Common Good? | Hoocoodanode?
scone wrote:
Coconuts, maybe?
Cinco-X wrote:
ooooooooooooooooh. tv dinner.
first mth kicks out 2nd mtgee. My understanding is no taxes due for non paying 2d. Just like no taxes due on foreclosed mtg no longer owed.
Am I wrong?
Great pic, JD, a saver.
OMG, you catch squirrels with coconuts?! That's so sad..... eeeewww, they look like the scarecrows on Dr. Who the other night.
black dog wrote:
The genuinely strategic defaulters? Most likely a very high percentage of them - how many of the total defaulters are truly strategic defaulters?
Mick Jagger is rerecording one of his signature songs to change the line to "I can't Gitmo, No Satisfaction".
Pellice wrote:
19year olds who've signed student-indentured servitude loan papers (owned by the slavemasters; government and banks), are overwhelmed with obtaining an education and the added nightmare of 100 grand in loans. They know this is the biggest lie handed to them. Education should not put Teenagers into life long debt.
Oxtail wrote:
Higher Ed.
... fills me... with... NERD RAGE!! 
.
I'm wondering how many years of students/graduates getting totally burned before word of mouth reveals the problem for what it really is...
Hahahahahahaha!
So, Liz, what kind of swill are they feeding you, and how are the drugs?
rps wrote:
Imagine retooling our society to make high school grads work for 2-4 years before enrolling in university. Chaos & Hilarity ensues fo' shizzle!
Conjure says, "Ernst and Young will soon be sleeping with fishes."
That'll no doubt go into the new Mossy Stones CD, along with "Hey you, get off my lawn!"
ghostfaceinvestah wrote:
Not where the genuine strategic defaulting is likely to occur, no? Most likely a sub-population with significantly higher mortgages would be my guess (in the bubbliest areas).
energyecon wrote:
I suspect that the greatest risk is where the DTI ratio is the least favorable.
mp wrote:
Dawg says Conjure reads the Guardian: Regulators demand detailed Lehman Brothers' papers from Ernst & Young |
Business |
guardian.co.uk
You mean like, uh, apprenticeship? 65% first year, 75% second year, 85% third year, 95% fourth year.
Rob Dawg wrote:
mp says Conjure read all 2,200 pages.
And the footnotes.
lawyerliz wrote:
So liz, are you injured? I'm late to the party----
Best on a quick recovery, if that is the case---
In Newport Beach, the City Attorney is beating up his wife--
Newport Beach city attorney arrested on suspicion of spousal abuse
March 15, 2010 | 1:04 pm
Newport Beach’s city attorney was arrested Sunday night on suspicion of felony spousal abuse, authorities said.
The cops have always been thugs in Newport, but never have had a run in with the City Attorney.
{... the sound of chains rattling in the Arthur Andersen closet}
mp wrote:
A highlight:
E&Y, which is one of the big four accounting firms along with KPMG, Deloitte and PricewaterhouseCoopers, was severely criticised in last week's report for the US bankruptcy courts by court-appointed examiner Anton Valukas.
His 2,200-page report found that repos, which are artificial sale and buy-back deals, were sanctioned by E&Y and enabled the bank to offload $50bn (£33bn) of debts into off-balance-sheet vehicles.
Sorry about your
liz. Get well soon and out of that hospital quickly. 
for you
Between the Isreali/Palastinian debate and the lamentations that the youth of today aren't saving the world, it's starting to smell like dkos around here.
Just sayin'.
Rob Dawg wrote:
And you know, somewhere, there's a playbook for how this is done. The trick is to find it and everyone who used it.
crazyv wrote:
Depends if you are a
,a 
, or a poor smuck that works and saves.
Maury the Credit Responsibility Panda wrote:
What kind of advice do you think the big accountancy operations sell through their consulting arms, anyway?
Just look at their client lists.
Comrade Alexei Mikhailovich wrote:
OK, I do property management in Phx. Have done commercial, office and retail in the past.
The bottom is no where near yet. Way too much empty retail, office and idustrial. The lenders may be rolling the loans so they don't have to forclose, that I could see.
The buildings that do have tenants have low end tenants: nail salons, churches, pet groomers. Office is so cheap even I don't believe the deals.
From the RRE rents, cut wages, people doubling up, out of jobs etc - this is no where near over. JMO
Maury the Credit Responsibility Panda wrote:
That's the scary part:
A spokesman for E&Y said: "Lehman's bankruptcy was the result of a series of unprecedented adverse events in the financial markets.
"Our opinion indicated that Lehman's financial statements for that year were fairly presented in accordance with generally accepted accounting principles (GAAP), and we remain of that view.
I doubt they will actually pay. When I was in high school, I yearned to have someone to talk to about the ideas flashing through my mind. Finally found one. The nuns were appalled by what we came up with together. nun even called my mom in to try to break up our friendship. mom said ok yep uh-hunh and then after we got out of there don't worry about it in spite of her hyper religiousness.
yagij wrote:
imagine retooling university costs so students can work part-time and with that income pay for full-time student enrollment.. I did it in the 70's. Why are costs astronomical? The top predators don't want the lower echelon to get uppity and demand their fair piece of the pie. Keep them dumb, minimum wage low, and debt laden high. This is the current dominator ranking model.
The youth of today are too in debt to save the world...Mr Dimon likey
Rob Dawg wrote:
What else can they say? Lots of lawsuits in prep as we type.
yagij wrote:
When I was in college, it felt to me like I was being warehoused for four years to give society time to come up with a place for me. Now they have to pay big dollars for the privilege of being warehoused, with no place waiting on the other side.
Yeh, if I were their age and really smart, I might give college a pass this time past the cheap two-year level and formulate my own ed plan. But few are that smart at 18.
sm_landlord wrote:
It's been a long time, but it makes me kinda personally sad. - back when it was E&W, that was my first gig out of college. I was software, but I supported the accountants sometimes. I always felt it was a very scrupulous company back then. But I was just a lowly field grunt. There may have been a lot going on at the partner+ level that I didn't know about.
Drug-0-morphine relative, dil something. Think UI';ll take anoyher hit!
lawyerliz wrote:
Bless your malfunctioning synapses, and get well soon!
Rob Dawg wrote:
YouTube - Animal House--"You F'ed up, you trusted us"
lawyerliz wrote:
Dilaudid? Breakfast of Champions, no question.
lawyerliz wrote:
Careful. Soon you'll be qualified for the Fed.
Rob Dawg wrote:
BWAHAHAHA!
I strongly recommend that Mr/Mrs/Ms?Miss Spokesman start looking for another job.
Like, right away.
"Drug-0-morphine relative, dil something. Think UI';ll take anoyher hit! "
Lawyerliz could try to write another Constitution
. 12. Free women shall have many bushes...for example 
lawyerliz wrote:
Dilaudid?
Raters of the lost arc
Bob Dobbs wrote:
Bob, that's got to cross a mind or two. But there's strong opposition in the form, primarily, of family opposition. Despairing parents. Charges of immaturity. Well, you know.
Bob Dobbs wrote:
Community 2yr. colleges are packed like sardine cans from early am to late pm. That's been the model for the past 8 years. Universities want their piece of the student loan pie, makes great university collateral. They inform the students that the credit hours/classes aren't at par with "their standards" and limit "acceptable" credit hours.
pellice nah nothing you can say to him/them, their responese will just be "whatever"
mp wrote:
Ironically, their spokesperson will probably be the last person to turn out the lights. Once the lawsuits have wound down.
gabyjan wrote:
Even that is truncated; it is now "whevs."
sm_landlord wrote:
ARE there going to be lawsuits? I heard that in 2008, that there would be boatloads of shareholder's lawsuits filed. Where are they?
sm_landlord wrote:
More than likely.
In the end, it should work out well.
Another POS accounting firm consigned to the dust bin of history.
I gave college a miss, and hit the ground running...
Pellice wrote:
There were some public discussions last week. I think they were waiting for the report.
gabyjan wrote:
gaby, that's where grandparents come in. Toynbee had it right.
"Grandparents and grandchildren are natural allies against a common enemy."
Sorry LL, what can I do to help? Send you some litigations perhaps?
That spokesman's comment just proves, in my mind at least, what a bunch of pathological sonsabitches they really are.
Facebook Overtakes Google as Most Popular U.S. Website - DailyFinance
Surely they should be able to monetize that traffic via ads? Of course that depends on the type of ads. Google's tend to be understated while Facebook's seem about one degree of separation away from spammers and phishers.
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
Smart move, and a good payoff, as long as you don't get laid off, and have to compete with all the MBA'a and PHD's looking for work in this market.
burnside not my grandmother,we spent to much time standing waiting for god to strike me down.and as for me, i think that my grand daughter is a changeling.
A version of dilaudid is 'Hydal Retard' which explains a lot.
Hydromorphone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
Not such a good option for those of us that didn't come from old money...........
They wouldn't have been competition, as I travelled all over the world for about 10 years doing business and seeing how things really work, not the version that's sold for public consumption here in the U.S. of A.
It's hard to see where the insights and inquisitiveness is supposed to come from when the entire mob, it seems, is busy preening for themselves and each other.
Thank god it doesn't happen here, but I'm sure everyone here's been to blogs where someone writes 200 words, then apologizes for the "long post."
Rob Dawg wrote:
Deny, deny, deny. Soon to be followed by, "I don't recall."
well. checkmate, then. i concede.
I never was given a cent by anybody...
I come from old money, but not that kind.
Maury the Credit Responsibility Panda wrote:
Hell, that one's easy. Lehman's accounting group published an instruction manual.
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
I've heard you say that before, but now conclude I have no idea what you mean.
JD can be pretty Zen Master sometimes.
scone wrote:
Seriously...care to expand on the 'business in other countries' thing JD?
Inquiring minds need to know.
I traveled all over the world buying and selling the past.
Rob Dawg wrote:
California made repairs and upgrades? I thought they just overpaid state employees, in an effort to perpetuate an ever growing tax base.
Education and intelligence occasionally go hand in hand. But when anyone who can fog a mirror cab get into college, it sort of defeats the purpose of "higher education." Whoever mentioned warehousing above was right on. It's mostly a scheme to keep young people out of the (no longer existent) workforce, and in ruinous debt.
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
Scratch Zen Master, insert Time Lord!
Antiques dealer?
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
Antiques or antiquities? If your family was in the business you knew what to do.
Blackhalo wrote:
Then you'll love the latest scheme. The LA DWP is proposing a "carbon surcharge" on customers to transition to renewable energy sources. 13% of their employees make $100k+ and huge raises were doled out less than 6 months ago. Retroactive pay raises.
My daddy-o was in the stock biz for about 50 years, so no help there.
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
Marco Polo!
That was fun, can we play some more?
DWP, Dawg?
The opaquescent answers are not helping your interests on my report to Homeland Security JD...
Rob Dawg wrote:
Who do you have to know to get a gig like that? One thin I have noticed in my job hunt is that government jobs seem overly focused on Uni provided credentials, rather than actual business experience. I guess they need to provide motivation for consumers of their education ponzi.
Anonymous Bosch wrote:
Department of water and power would be my guess.
Rob Dawg wrote:
13% of their employees make $100k+ and huge raises were doled out less than 6 months ago. Retroactive pay raises.
Git while the gittin's good... don't just fish that pond, OVER-fish that pond and leave a crater behind, and then jump to a bigger scam.
"Old money, but not that kind..."
Old money? Got it. I'm slow sometimes.
They don't call it LaLaland for nothing.
You got it, Bob? You wanna share?
World's Highest Standard of Living
Anonymous Bosch wrote:
Old coins and money, numismatism.
[crickets]
Time for dinner. [edit: delayed] Hustle a visa.
:embarrassment: Was going to guess rare stones.
Anonymous Bosch wrote:
Los Angeles Department of Water and Power. One of the biggest muni electricity and water providers around.
Rob Dawg wrote:
Ironic, ain't it, that when Mulholland set the whole thing up, he made them independent so they could avoid the corruption of the political system.
While debunked by evolution, for corruption, the theory of Spontaneous Generation appears to be quite explanatory in California. Must be the weather.
DCRogers wrote:
While debunked by evolution, for corruption, the theory of Spontaneous Generation appears to be quite explanatory in California
Meanwhile the argument for purposeful evolution is debunked!
Bob Dobbs wrote:
As opposed to nummi-smatist
: the study of old automobile manufacturing techniques
Regulators are demanding answers from E&Y over Lehman? Fine, it's about damn time.
What about detailed info from the auditors of other failed and bailed out firms like WAMU, Countrywide, Indymac, Goldman, Wells Fargo, Wachovia, Bear Stearns, Citi, BAC, Merrill,etc.
Failure should NOT be the litmus test for fraud investigations as all of these firms would have failed absent bailouts.
Tens of millions of American families are coming to grips with foreclosure and/or insolvency. This was not an accident, it was a swindle. A mass looting.
You are all very well versed in money, but do any of you know anything about old money?
...that's where the past gives up it's secrets about what went down financially oh so long ago
Mr Slippery wrote:
Yah, yah. Comrade Coinz is still alive under there somewhere....
Get well soon LL!
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
Where did the Roman money go?
Bob Dobbs wrote:
Milk-a-what? I never leave the house without at least a Morgan in my pocket, and that's not a
reference.
Eventually it became victim of the Denarius Derivative, i.e. silver-washed coins in lieu of them being 95% Silver...
During Julius Caesar's time it took 25 silver Denarii to equal 1 gold Aureus
By the 3rd Constantine Emperor, it was 3,500 silver-washed Denarii to equal 1 gold Aureus.
No different than our game, really.
Pellice wrote:
Correct, but I would add that 70 isn't too old to resume.
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
Agreed. But they will not let the world's largest police force's currency go down the drain so easily unless another is installed that will not harm their 'investments'.
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
When did the British pound stop buying a pound sterling? Any predictions on the end of the dollar reserve system?
The Roman Legions were paid in Denarii, and things didn't go so well for the boys once the money was debauched...
It seems to me that there is a perfectly valid argument that having the real estate market find a clearing price in the middle of massive run on the banking system is not the best option. - crazyv
the difficulty seems to be in making that argument.
If I remember my history the 'boys' in the Roman Legions pay was the LAST thing that got debauched.
The emperors knew where to keep their strong points...
Blackwaterwannabe wrote:
Depends what the police force is getting paid with...
They were paid in 'silver' not gold. Constantine the 3rd was around 350 a.d., so you can see where things were going, no?
Blackwaterwannabe wrote:
Until it was. And then it was the last thing.
Mr Slippery wrote:
June 24, 1968
50 years is about right for run out.
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
I read that by the end the legions were being paid "in kind," because the money wasn't worth anything. Diocletian put a band-aid on the economic situation, but it was basically all over but the shouting in the Western Empire in the fourth century.
When honest money goes away, so do civilizations.
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
When honest money goes away, so do civilizations.
And in their place arise overreaching central governments financed by private banks in exchange for license to coin 'official' money?
Almost on topic: China May Face ‘Massive’ Bank Bailouts After Stimulus Program - Bloomberg.com
Amateurs.
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
With all the evidence of Gold and DJA manipulations, do you really think the PTB will allow a fiat currency to go to hell without their approval?
ResistanceIsFeudal wrote:
Government arises to fill the spaces where civilization fails.
The Romans knew damn well what they doing, do you really think the Legions would allow a currency to go to hell without their approval?
Rob Dawg wrote:
Little wonder we're a country of lawyers, lawsuits and tax accountants!
Government arises to fill the spaces where civilization fails.
Much as law arises to fill the spaces first exploited by the smart amoral scumbags
Blackwaterwannabe wrote:
It has happened in the past. I'd guess it would depend on how deep the corruption runs and who owns the public debt.
The Romans paid their soldiers in salt, hence "salary." The salt was a trade item, and had value. Any store of value will do, symbolic or literal. Symbolic is easier to carry.
scone wrote:
Or even smokeable, as the latest Pentagon causality argued.
Correct, but I would add that 70 isn't too old to resume.
Hasn't stopped me, but gradual improvement is still possible.
scone wrote:
Symbolic is easier to carry.
"What's your 'NUMBER'"?
off to sing... one of those useless community activities, you know - it doesn't pay anything, after all...
If I may be so bold to add:
The demographics of Mexico alone is astonishing in numbers for age ranges 18+, not so in the US, where millions of baby boomers are set to retire.
They are precipitating the destruction of the American Middle Class to poverty, then with new and improved financial regulations tied into immigration allowances, the masses from the SA and Mexican countries will have plenty of newly built and older homes to choose from ...CHEAP.
It will also help having a Congressional passed military enlistment and expidited citizenship allowance with benefits. Thomas Jefferson warned us and we didn't listen. Some of us will be cleaning toilets for the new Americans.
Tell me this won't happen.Please.
Things were a-ok if you were a Roman and were able to go to Byzantium after the fall of the western empire, as they still issued honest money.
I bought a house in Inland Empire. I heloced the profits to purchase a beanie babie collection and part ownership in a Russian mail order bride business.
Turns out the guy in China Town sold me fake beanie babies and the brides aren't being delivered as agreed.
If I short sale the house do I have to pay tax on the helic loss?
Screw the dolls, what do you have in girls??
I'm thinking of a second vacation wife, not too fancy...blond on the pill. A fixer upper is OK.
Blackwaterwannabe wrote:
Algunos de nosotros será limpieza de los baños para los nuevos americanos.
"The overhang is a dark specter over the housing market," says Sam A. Khater, senior economist at First American CoreLogic. There are now 3.5 million mortgages at least 90 days delinquent. In addition, 2 million mortgages are at least 180 days delinquent, says Khater. Unlike unemployment, the rise in delinquent mortgages hasn't decelerated, he adds.
I think the British Pound was a pound of silver until around the late 17th century...
Who can say when and how the dollar reserve system collapses, but i'd venture a guess that it will happen rather suddenly.
Rob Dawg wrote:
Eso no es gracioso, dude!
Btw, "americanos" is CAPITALIZED.
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
Dawg predicted 2018 earlier. My WAG was August 4, 2021, predicated on the (by then) obvious failure of Medicare, but who knows?
Suddenly, like a thief in the night.
Blackwaterwannabe wrote:
We'll be lucky if that all they'll calls us gringo.
I think we'll come full-circle as a country, and FRN's will be exchangable @ a ratio of 1000-1 to the new honest money, just like what happened with Colonial Currency in the 1790's.
Top story on yahoo news right now. Good to see we're being given news on the important things going on in the world today.
Yahoo! Finance - Business Finance, Stock Market, Quotes, News
Doc Holiday wrote:
I am still confused by the joy that people express when satisfying a key human need - for housing - becomes more expensive, and the worry they express when they think it might become cheaper.
the Clipperships have set sale for the Cape of Good Hope, World Cuppa Rand is on the horizon.
Well...at least Ally bank is "straightforward" and "just doing the right things to do".
I can finally sleep at night.
Ooops. Did I just do a CR faux pas?
Really the thing that caused the transition from Rome to the dark ages was the plague of Justinian which killed nearly half the population of Western Europe (and a good number of the Byzantines), and caused the collapse Ostrogoth Kingdom of Italy (which was probably better run than the Roman state that proceeded it). The plague probably caused many of the cities to shrink to a size where they could no longer maintain a civilization as complex as Europe had been before.
patientrenter wrote:
good point but I do not think you are confused just tired of the horse poopy
Winston wrote:
Bullshit. It was because the Council of Nicene prohibited pole dancing @ the pubs throughout the Empire because of some new and improved regulations on purgatory and hell bound indiginants.
It took YEARS to finally get a script written on "Married with Children"...
Hope LL is getting some good sleep about now. Many years ago I fell in the bathtub and spent four days in hospital, loved those morphine shots.
i jammed a flathead screwdriver into my thumb over the weekend. there is a gnarly gash there where my cuticle used to be... i imagine that felt about like what paying taxes on foreclosure proceeds must feel like.
Thanks for posting that link, ghostface; very sobering data indeed.
MaryAnn wrote:
that sounds really ungood. what happened?
Schiff hammers the dollar over Yellen nomination:
HoweStreet.com - The Source for Market Opinions
George Washington
Blackwaterwannabe wrote:
Eh? Indignant indigents?
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
George Washington
Problem is, short dollar means long euro. The fundamentals of the dollar are worse than they were in 2008, but so are the fundamentals of the euro. How many people were openly discussing the possibility of the Euro collapsing in 2008? Playing currencies right now is just an aggressive game of black swan racing. Will your black swan show up before my black swan?
And then you have the whole paper gold market which is a big ugly mess.
George was so delightfully dad-like. He didn't even like Prussian Blue. And we'll never know what he was really like, because he destroyed a lot of his correspondence. Very much the image manager-- ahead of his time.
If the various currencies were sporting teams, they'd have records like 2-14 and 4-12...
Trying to find the least worst currency is a fool's errand.
RockyR, Just slipped, took seconds and lasted for hours in my mind. One can kilt themselves just falling.
MaryAnn wrote:
quite easily
MaryAnn wrote:
So I take a flying leap down the stairs, and it's Graham of Monteith!
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
VIVA the US DOLLAR!!!!!!!! BUY! BUY!BUY! BUY!
{currently short Euro/USD}
MaryAnn wrote:
Well, I like men in kilts, if they have nice legs.