Home Builders $2.3 Billion "Gift" from Taxpayers
Submitted by
CalculatedRisk on Mon, 03/15/2010 - 11:17am (213 comments)
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I am actually surprised more builders haven't gone under, but I guess it's a matter of timing.
See how efficient the private sector is? Look at that ROI!
More free currency...what a great country.
It's all fun and games till it's not.
CR, you're almost suggesting that misdirected welfare does more damage than no welfare at all - you sly libertarian, you.
Return on Lobbying (ROL)
+1 CR. I hope the accountants run with it.
And they didn't even send us a thank-you card.
Thornberg better be careful. Talk like that will get him banished from CNBC.
greenchutes wrote:
Then he's almost right.....
Another brilliant gov't scheme designed to help Americans, while benefiting poorly run companies at the taxpayers expense.
Keep up the good work.
Nemo wrote:
Or buy us dinner first.
For Which is Worse:
Comment by Cinco-X from thread 'NAHB Builder Confidence declines in March'
Well let them build some smaller houses or apartments, I don't want to spend more than 200 bucks on rent. Why should I pay more when so many people are not even paying anything. One of these days I plan on moving out of my parents house.
****shakes fist****
Get off that lawn! (Your not paying your mortgage on)
Which is worse - bankers or terrorists wrote:
Anybody get a kiss?
biochemist wrote:
Oooohhhh! That's a big step-
Dodd unveils sweeping financial regulation plan - Yahoo! Finance
"...If anything, they're making it worse because they're encouraging construction when we need to burn off our existing supply first."
I agree, let's literary burn newly developed construction and use the tax benefits to re-build them, tricking the Fed in thinking that the real estate market is reacting to increased demand for housing, justifying their fears for inflationary pressures...so they can raise interest rates to prevent overheating, and appreciate the $ to prevent shortage of labor due to over-demand for American exports...
It would be better if there was less capacity in the home building sector.3
And it'd be better if I could bag Kiera Knightley. Alotta ifs all over the place.
The bill creates a powerful nine-member Financial Stability Oversight Council that could:
--Place large, interconnected financial institutions such as insurance conglomerate American International Group under the supervision of the Federal Reserve.
--Approve the break up of large complex companies if they pose a "grave threat" to the to the nation's financial system.
Such actions would require a two-thirds vote of the council.
Stamos wrote:
Remember that since the fiat currency is effectively backed by an economy's value of goods, services and assets, destroying assets would by itself result in inflation. In some ways, it'd be easier than trying to create money in the current monetary environment with minimal lending.
Social Security to start cashing Uncle Sam's IOUs - Yahoo! News
This is a great story. Basically America's entire Social Security Fund is a three ring binder of IOU's from Treasury, sitting in an office in West Virginia - the biggest Ponzi scheme of all time. Robert Toll just made off with the last of your pension. This will end well.
Doofus wrote:
Careful young buck, your age is showing. Not that I disagree with you in the least.
Someone should make a social networking website where young people can organize renting a place and splitting rent.
JimPortlandOR wrote:
Heh, heh! Don't shoot the messenger
On one end you've got 2 IRS agents hitting up a Sacramento carwash for 4 cents and on the other end you'v got homebuilders retroactively turning losses into profits...
When is the next redeye flight to Mars?
biochemist wrote:
Placebook?
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
Need to wire some money out of the country tomorrow. What planet can I wire it to with a safe monetary system? I'm pretty sure the planet that has the Bank of International Settlements in it is out.
biochemist wrote:
Believe it or not there's a website for college age kids where you can locate a vacant couch in a city you plan to visit for no cost at all. You just need to be willing to allow someone else to crash on your couch under similar circumstances. Keep you money in your underwear....
These big builders are a scourge to small communities. They come in with their 'from someplace else workers' and purchase nary a nail locally. The land owners make out like kings while the local :suckers: (taxpayers) get stuck with rising taxes since the builders proffers don't come anywhere near the cost of services rendered to the new homes.
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
I'm pretty sure that mission was cancelled.
USATODAY.com - Bush proposes manned mission to moon by 2015
shill wrote:
yes now for something completely different
Jesse's Café Américain: US Making Preparations for a Pre-Emptive Strike on Iran (or Some Other Eastern Destination)
I wish we would'nt
tg wrote:
Cool. I'm going to sit on my roof and watch the fireworks across the Gulf. Dubai could turn this into a tourist attraction.
(Snark)
I'm not sure what is more socially unpleasant:
- living with age peers that refuse to do their share of housecleaning
- living with parents or in-laws that impose their values on the children-grown-up
Just think what the (south Asian) Indian approach would do to housing as a US industry: routinely (social requirement) moving in with the male marital partner's parents and being subject to their rules.
I'm not sure if mr thornberg was looking for an answer but i believe the question that is more applicable these days is "what isn't wrong with this picture?"
black dog wrote:
I watched my father make a decent amount of money picking through the entrails of slaughtered developer/builder juggernauts who succumbed to the 1990's recession; if I was an independent builder who avoided excessive leverage and overhead, I'd be awfully pissed right now.
SecTreas Paul O'Neill was on 60 Minutes on a Sunday way back when describing how clueless the administration under which he toiled was, and to deflect his criticism the next day on Monday, it was annnouncd that we were going to Mars...
te4st
tg wrote:
Would they really put their secret pre-emptive strike ammunition order up for public tender? It seems like a bit of a stretch.
Welfare for public corporations? It's not like they can even contribute to campaigns. Oh, wait...
lawyerliz wrote:
te4st
FAIL.
Cinco-X wrote:
Or a reach around?
noob goldberg wrote:
negotiate from strength good tactic unless they think your bluffing
Banks in the Central Valley had no problem with lending out to smaller builders, and they've mostly gone tits up, unlike the nationwide homebuilders that are much bigger and have lost much more money...
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
I remember being extremely impressed at how little traction that story received, and how quickly it was buried.
Both O'Neill and Mars, for that matter.
Mr Slippery wrote:
A fart in the face is all you'll get.
"- living with age peers that refuse to do their share of housecleaning"
The trick to this is, you gotta out do them. Do twice as less housecleaning. Me and my brother had an apartment together for a while and we got into this kind of competition. It got bad, real bad. Sibling Rivalry and all.
JimPortlandOR wrote:
Just think I could have gone my whole life not knowing that term
Rove, Rove, Rove your boat....
Kill all The Boomers!,..
Solves: Health Care, Social Security, Drug war,............
Page Not Found | Facebook
noob goldberg wrote:
Only if they were negotiating. Sounds like moving one of our aircraft carriers off the coast of a hostile country just to let them knows what's up.
It sure is a good thing the people who shorted the HB stocks were reimbursed for their destroyed investments after FedGov intervened and changed the rules. If they hadn't the long term damage to the reputation and therefor retail investment in the stock markets would have taken decades to repair.
Hell Yes!
Realized this morning that it became the 15th and that means Cast Off Hand at 3!
Can't wait to get this anchor off my arm.
L8R T8Rs
YouTube - Die Krupps - "To The Hilt"
noob goldberg wrote:
I was living in the UAE when Iraq was invaded.
Locally, people we're looking at the amount of money being spent bringing in carriers, weapons, etc. and invasion was a forgone conclusion well before the last of the diplomatic posturing was done.
I remember 1 article about land prices in N. Kuwait soaring because of the potential malls and resorts that would cater to the newly liberated Iraqi middle class and all their oil money.
That didn't work out so well.
Bubblisimo Gerkinov wrote:
I'm channelling energyecon: life makes a great deal more sense when one starts with the premise that people are crazy.
I said this before - one thing I was surprised at with the bailouts was how much clout the homebuilders had in DC.
ghostfaceinvestah wrote:
DC clout = dollars. The interesting thing will be if this building depression removes those dollars from their income, which removes the dollars from their lobbying, which hurts income further.
Now THAT would be a death spiral.
shhh don't tell no one else
Anecdotal Economics: Connecting the Dots: Social Security Edition
I remember 1 article about land prices in the Central Valley soaring because of the potential malls and resorts that would cater to the newly liberated LA/SF middle class and all their HELOC money.
That didn't work out so well.
noob goldberg wrote:
I half jokingly said to some of my fellow expats that Iraq might be our next job. I didn't realise how ideological the Bushies were, then I learned about the whole neocon thing.
An excellent book on the subject is Imperial Life in the Emerald City :: Rajiv Chandrasekaran
Which is worse - bankers or terrorists wrote:
I agree with both you and tg on the negotiation aspect of it.
I guess that means attack is not imminent, as negotiations are still taking precedence.
noob goldberg wrote:
It's a question of degree and resulting functionality and compatibility...and you gotta start with the person in the mirror!
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
the potential malls and resorts that would cater to the newly liberated LA/SF middle class and all their HELOC money.
Liberated indeed... from their potential savings.
i"m in hospit6al., Motrin did'T work on a broken leg. AM ON HUB's laptop and hate it. Have some interesting comments on hospitals. Let"S SEE IF THIS POSTS.
lawyerliz,
got it.
post away.
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
I was going to say the same thing. Remember: "Bakersfield: Gateway to the Central Valley"?
energyecon wrote:
That guy kinda creeps me out.
EDIT: As an aside, and an update for everyone, it appears that the Dow volume today has settled around 80% of average. Another weak day again, although it's impressive to watch how easy it is for someone to hike the index 60 points on low volume.
The Gov't report on Lehman's failure brings up some questions on Bear Stearns. Since Bear did not file for actual bankruptcy (they were saved by the Fed & JPM), have we had a thorough investigaton on possible fraud at Bear? Did Bear use Repo 105 style accounting?
I for one still want a complete accounting of the Fed. It's the only way we will ever know what firms got what.
Angry Saver wrote:
Ben and Tim reply: "You can't handle the truth".
noob goldberg wrote:
Friday is opex for equities, it almost seemed like they were trying to set the pin already...
edit: And a "In USA glorious market only goes up!"
Cap One charge offs unexpectedly decline.
NAHB HMI unexpectedly declines.
Homebuilders unexpectedly profitable.
Is someone keeping score? And did Broward ever tell us what kind of car?
JimPortlandOR wrote:
Ben and Tim reply: "You can't handle the truth".
more like: You wouldn't believe the truth if we told it. Doing so would shatter the cultural mythology that holds your society together.
noob goldberg wrote:
Trial balloon?
Angry Saver wrote:
We're going to have to require some sort of Charlie Chaplin/Three Stooges/Abbott and Costello soundtrack for any such Fed Audit.
We have to stop positioning it as a conspiracy drama, and instead as a slapstick comedy.
At least the mortgage market is healing - NOT
http://www.lpsvcs.com/NewsRoom/IndustryData/Documents/02-2010%20Mortgage%20Monitor/Pres_MM_Jan10Data.pdf
energyecon wrote:
Heh, it's true, I fell into the
mindset. What I meant to state was how easy it was for the index to be swung around (up or down) when volume is so low 
lawyerliz wrote:
What did you do? BTW, your spell checker looks broken too-
noob goldberg wrote:
Hmmm...if we go with a clown motif there, I vote for a clown more like from Stephen King's It...
Oh My God, Liz! What happened to you?
Hey Liz, are you OK?
So I'm a little confused by something here: does this mean that the builders have written off all of their losses, or is this a continuing process? If they have already written off their losses from the past five years, it's still a gimme, but isn't it a one-time gimme? Shouldn't their present and/or future earnings numbers show the real status of their finances?
In other words, if they were facing bankruptcy before, why wouldn't they still be facing it now that their one-and-done write-off is used up? Or is the write-off somehow phased wherein they can only claim, or choose to claim, so much per quarter, such that they could continue to write off some portion of the last five years' losses indefinitely (and thus show a "profit") until they are all accounted for?
ghostfaceinvestah wrote:
I'm not very literary. What does "beware 'Picture Frame' thinking when looking for signs of recovery" mean?
Isn't anyone else amazed at the small lobbying amounts reported in the post? Each of these companies claim to have contributed about the price of one SFH to lobbyists. That couldn't buy enough roast beef, could it?
It's a bailout for Robert Toll. They're bailing out Robert Toll. Repeat after me, they are bailing out Robert Toll. What's wrong with this picture?"
Don't you like opera?
JimPortlandOR wrote:
Who else is going to stand watch on that wall of money?
Overrating Government Service - Robert P. Murphy - Mises Institute
lawyerliz wrote:
I told you to stop taking on the mortgage mob, LL.
Those guys have no qualms about busting a few kneecaps.
Seriously, what the hell happened to you
noob goldberg wrote:
Reality TV show? Dance competition where one contestant is voted off each week?
noob goldberg wrote:
MyPlace
Before you kill all the Boomers for screwing up Social Security, think about this.
I have been paying into Social Security for 41 years. In 32 of those years, I paid the maximum possible.
By the time I'm finished working, if ever, I will probably have paid in for 50 years and paid the maximum for at least 40.
Will I ever get back all that I paid in, without any interest? Probably not.
So, don't kill me.
Experts agree that free money is the best kind.
Ex-NY bank president first accused of TARP fraud - Yahoo! News
Harbinger of things to come or
?
lawyerliz wrote:
which bone? hope you are ok
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
Experts agree that other people's money is the best kind.
There was a certain validity to retirees from coastal areas cashing out on their coastal RE gains and moving to less expensive areas in the Central Valley. It was a compromise alternative to moving to Idaho like the LAPD retirees do. But it created a radically lopsided economy in the CV. As far as I can tell the only industries thriving in Fresno are medical care and assisted living for the gippers.
Cinco-X wrote:
Spell checker doesn't work when you're on anything stronger than Motrin
Are you okay Lawyerliz? We just got back from 2 weeks in FL--I coulda brought you some soup!
No kidding. Attacking Iran would be disastrous. We're surging in Afg and doing a buildup of bunker busters? Ludicrous.
rich wrote:
Ah Ha! Since you paid the maximum, you're obviously one of those who as a percentage paid less than the rest of us. You're making too much money, and deserve the wrath of the young even more than the rest of the boomers! Thanks for bleeding the economy dry-
Wasn't Beazer in North Carolina courts for deceptive practices? Who are we helping out here?
@lawyer liz
Sorry to hear of your [more than] misstep, but your commitment to investigating the medical provider industry is phenominal!
You really gotta read this (posted above), some highlights:
http://www.lpsvcs.com/NewsRoom/IndustryData/Documents/02-2010%20Mortgage%20Monitor/Pres_MM_Jan10Data.pdf
Total delinquencies increased slightly from December to January to new highs.Total Delinquencies (excluding Foreclosures) = 10.25%Month over Month Increase of 2.0%, Year over Year Increase of 22.1%
Foreclosure inventories continue to climb to record highs.January Foreclosure Rate = 3.27%Month over Month Increase of 1.8%, Year over Year Increase of 61.3%
The rate of newly delinquent loans (current to delinquent roll) in January 2010 was higher than any prior year.
Despite loss mitigation efforts, the rate at which loans are curing from delinquency has steadily declined.
5.04% of Loans Rolled to „Worse‟ Status in January „10 vs. 1.74% that Improved.
Extrapolating data from the LPS servicing database,almost 7.5 million loans are in some stage of delinquency or foreclosure with an additional 1 million properties in REO or post-sale foreclosure.
We've become expert at creating another mess to better cover up our previous efforts...
rosethorn wrote:
However, there is probably some thought that another military adventure might rally the populace behind the President, and save the 2010 elections. It's not about our welfare or the welfare of the country as a whole...
Attacking Iran would be disastrous
Not if you are the
and long oil.
black dog wrote:
Ouch! I wonder if that might explain some of the curious run up in crude in the face of slack demand recently?!
Cinco-X wrote:
Nobel Peace Prize winners aren't really known for wagging the dog. Although it would keep Obamm's (sic) record near perfect in regards to doing things that should not be done.
yagij wrote:
FaceSpace
rich wrote:
Will I ever get back all that I paid in, without any interest? Probably not.
So, don't kill me.
What we should 'kill' is the ability of future generations of politicians to create new unfunded entitlements programs so that the mistake is not repeated every few generations.
I remember this guy that said everything people wanted to hear, and in complete sentences as an added bonus!
As Health Vote Awaits, Future of a Presidency Waits, Too - NY Times
Nice photo of the O-man.....
I think that "rallying around the War President" ploy has been played out. (Hope I'm right, though there's no accounting for stupid people.)
Yippie! The
ground effects work great!
ResistanceIsFeudal wrote:
Careful! That Libertarian trash won't be tolerated here!
Cinco-X wrote:
If health reform passes, you're going to see his O-face. Oh, Oh, Oh.
TRkipped over a curb on a sidewalk going up a small in cocoa. it hurt bad, but i was hoping for a bruise or a pulled muscle. walking didn't improve, si we went to hospital. cracked me femur just under the ball that goes into the hip, Not mialligned or anything and I was "lucky" that surgeon w3as free at that moment. They put in 3 screws. So now I am even screwier than before. I"m on diluadid or something like that--a morphine variant.
On the brighter side, the 14k is really back in my account.
Wonder what this will co0st? Suppose I didn/T HAVE HEAlth insurance?
Just shows how dirty our elected politicians are.
Mr Slippery wrote:
Didn't check the link, did'ja?
ResistanceIsFeudal wrote:
We've already done that much and have some fail-safes in place just in case the politicians get too smart for our own good.
.
America: The land of reams and home of the raves
Cinco-X wrote:
Man, those are some big-ass crosshairs.
lawyerliz wrote:
Sorry about the femur. You need to sue somebody.
The manufacturer of the femur?
Cinco-X wrote:
you mean one of those new york times back-lit savior sell the obama photos?
What we should do, what we should have done a long time ago, was make it impossible to spend SS contributions on anything other than SS payments.
lawyerliz wrote:
Get well soon and get the heck outta the hospital. Didn't you know they are full of sick people?
Which is worse - bankers or terrorists wrote:
Whatever it is, Alex Trebek should host. Not even Chuck Norris questions Alex Trebek.
Rob Dawg wrote:
That's from the NY Times; it's supposed to carry a subliminal messianic message to readers. You're fighting the programming....
Elvis wrote:
I understand that John Edwards is looking for work.
yagij wrote:
His will be known as 'the bait and switch presidency'.
4thstreet wrote:
Yup! LOL.....you drank the
, unlike Rob Dawg 
He saw cross hairs......
lawyerliz, How does one go about negotiating for a lesser injury?
I hope you are comfortably numb, and get better asap~
He's still in love, didn't you hear?
Oh, Liz.
Can we send flowers and chocs?
Bubblisimo Gerkinov wrote:
Definitely makes Dubya seem like a more honest guy.
Cinco-X wrote:
One hopes not but if the security of the country is at stake not in the sense of an external attack but internal breakdown I can see the motivation. Fare thee well cinco
John Edwards' mistress: Still in love, living 'a life of truth' | D.C. Now | Los Angeles Times
yagij wrote:
We've already done that much and have some fail-safes in place just in case the politicians get too smart for our own good.
Glad to know that we've advanced socially in at least one area, then... abolishing central banking is a long way off, but learning the lessons of socialist cronyism should be at least as valuable as learning the lessons of capitalist cronyism.
As things turned out, there were 2 Americas in John Edwards world...
More icons!
And we need a break-a-leg icon too:
burnside wrote:
I read that as flowers and chaos and I immediately liked the cut of your jib.
:eyeroll:
Just how long is 15 minutes anyway?
Speaking of gifts from taxpayers - Californians who defaulted on their mortgages are now demanding tax relief.
Short sale tax shortchanges ex-homeowners
Golden nugget from the article:
"We lost our down payment of $70,000, we lost our home and now California wants $38,000 (in extra taxes) from us," Tara Blackwell said. "It's like kicking you when you're down."
Liz, get out of there ASAP. If my heart attack is any indication, they charge $2,500 per hour for crappy food and lousy TV.
lawyerliz wrote:
Oh no, CR guys! The pirates have gotten to lawyerliz! Aaaaarr!
Lawyerliz--if they start talking about The Flying Spaghetti Monster--you'll need to escape--it's a cult! (But I am so sorry that you TRkipped over a curb!)
Attacking Iran now would make no sense strategically. Therefor a great move re deception. No, that's stupid, isn't it?
Liz, praying for you, whether you want me to or not.
GlobalSecurity.org - SITREP Situation Report | Iran's Counter-Strike
This commenter thinks if the US attacked or supported an Israeli attack on Iran that the Iranians would supply Stinger type missiles to Afghan insurgents; specifically drawing the analogy with US supply of Stingers to mujahideen to fight the USSR.
Ouch! I hope you get better quickly. Although, based on your spelling at least they're giving you plenty of drugs
lawyerliz wrote:
Sorry to hear. Get well soon.
crappy food--check.
Bad tv--check.
Hard to work laptop--check.
And there was absolutly nothing bwrong with curb, so nobody to sue.
My 2 year-old just called me at the office in tears, because he woke up from his nap and daddy was not home. I assume a bad dream, but its amazing how effective children are at pushing the right guilt buttons on their dads.
If only Liz was German, then $14 would cover everything...
OT, but I read Facebook entries from my younger relatives, (say, late high school or early college) and I cannot believe how ... shallow ... these entries are. Isn't that the age where you are supposed to be thinking about deep themes and reading the classics and, well, challenging the views you grew up with. I did, I honestly did. But of course it was a time of upheaval, the Watergate hearings were going on, etc.
I wish I could believe that my nieces and nephews were poorly represented by their facebook entries. And that they are in deep conversation with their peers about the place of humanity, the futility of consumption, etc. But, alas, I think they are pretty accurate. They have not a CLUE of the onrushing changes all around them. Does my nephew ever reflect that he could be fighting an impossible war at this juncture? I see no hint of it. Does he realize that the financial sector has collapsed and his life will be changed?
What kind of bubble have you parents constructed for these kids? I try to slip some subversive ideas in, but it's hopeless. I remember thinking about "the big themes" at that time of my life. I see zero evidence of reflection. Maybe it's just my relatives - could be - but how can they be becoming LESS interesting as they get older? I was equally disheartened to read a news story from my state university about how they were attracting the best students, those with "sparkling resumes." How the hell can you have a sparkling resume at age 18? I'd MUCH rather read about people who are coming with perfectly understandable psychic injuries from the mess that is high school in order to wrestle with some enduring, and unanswerable questions.
What is my role here? I'm tempted to throw a few more well-shielded bombs just to get these adults - and they are now adults - to THINK. Is it hopeless?
Pearl wrote:
Oh no, CR guys! The pirates have gotten to lawyerliz! Aaaaarr!
I'll offer her an AYE-patch, if it would help.
Cinco-X wrote:
I'm not sure it would hurt in the mid-terms. Dems are dead right now anyway. At least they would have an accomplishment to sell, however it turns out.
You left out:
Wrong! Get yourself a good lawyer.(s) Sue the city, township, hamlet!
Cinco-X wrote:
Nice ... definitely a step up from the standard presidential halo photo.
@ Mr.Slippery - The Nazi's had flare too.
lawyerliz wrote:
Get well soonest lliz, and have a chat with that gal in the mirror re: watching her step
You can lead a dullard to knowledge, but you can't make them think.
The abandonment of the schools (except as a source for juicy pensions and swollen paydays for postgraduate faculty) is one of the more damaging aspects of the wasteland left by the Boomers.
Why does Final destination Iran? - Herald Scotland
| News
| World News
remind me of YouTube - Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran
Another carryover from the Bush admin?
Obama sure seems to have carried over a lot of other baggage.
Ah, Congress again...caught with their arms jammed deep into the Toll house cookie jar. This ravenous feeding frenzy at the taxpayer trough is not gonna end well.
Liz, get well soon!
pavel.chichikov wrote:
It would do wonders for my hou.to
HOU.TO: Summary for HORIZONS NYMEX Crude Oil Bull P- Yahoo! Finance
The biggest conundrum is whether we support Israel, or let them do their own thing.
They are gonna get us, one way or another.
Chinese Fluoride In Mass. Water Raises Concern - Boston News Story - WCVB Boston
Fluoride is added to the water most of us drink because the government believes it's a safe and inexpensive way to prevent tooth decay.
However, Team 5 Investigates found the Amesbury Water Department pulled fluoride from its system amid concerns about its supply from China.
Department of Public Works Director Rob Desmarais said after he mixes the white powder with water, 40 percent of it will not dissolve.
"I don't know what it is," Desmarais said. "It's not soluble, and it doesn't appear to be sodium fluoride. So we are not quite sure what it is."
Ken is absolutely amazing!
Wow Liz!!!!
Are you taking Fosamax or another type of bisphosphonate? (osteo drugs) Reports lately about femur fractures after long-term use of the drugs:
Fosamax Fracture Cases Cause Women to Weigh Risk of Using Bone-Loss Drug - ABC News
(The femur is the strongest bone in the body and should not easily fracture.)
I don't blame boomers, they have been just one of those luckier generations, especially after 1970's. Those born 1890's got the really bad cards, two world wars and then the cold war in their old days.
Especially the treatment they got from doctors then were especially hilarious, heroine as cough medicine and other heavy duty drugs for all kinds of pains. If that did not help, they gave some electricity with real juice or even lobotomy for real bad cases.
kcoop wrote:
Ken, you amaze - thanks from all of us for the blooms for lliz!
Not if they're Eloy.
Pellice wrote:
OT, but I read Facebook entries from my younger relatives, (say, late high school or early college) and I cannot believe how ... shallow ... these entries are. Isn't that the age where you are supposed to be thinking about deep themes and reading the classics and, well, challenging the views you grew up with.
Faux news : Average boomer :: Pop culture : Average youth
Anonymous Bosch wrote:
So what do thinking Morlocks do - floss?
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
thought it was "horticulture".
I don't blame anyone on an individual level, and agree about the unfortunate destiny of the younger brothers of guys like Mao, Stalin, Hitler, and FDR. The "greatest generations" are the kids who clean up their messes, and I have similarly high hopes for the best of the ones being born now.
the wasteland left by the Boomers
hey, Journey wasn't that bad
Yes! The icon delivery man came through (again!)
Speedy Recovery, Lawyerliz!
You guys make me blush, often.
While I'm here, if anyone else is interested in giving the upcoming site features a test run, drop me a line.
greenchutes wrote:
So how are you gonna fix the wasteland? Or are you going to crawl into hole and ignore it.
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
ResistanceIsFeudal wrote:
Not exactly. Much more hate in Faux news than in the Black Eyed Peas.
That's great, esp the popup text.
for lliz.
The biggest conundrum is whether we support Israel, or let them do their own thing.
From what I've read, Israel lacks the ability to knock out Iran. But Israel can force the issue from the US point of view.
That's what I read.
Late in the Section 8 Years, King George II went to the holyland and was treated like royalty...
Scared the hell out of me~
liZ, HOwpe you fEEl betTEr SOoon!
Pellice,
It's like that here too, even finance or political science majors at my University don't seem to know jack or shit. In fact the only person I talk to about current events or politics is one of the heads of the computer science departments who is always taking a smoke break about the same time I am in the mornings. So don't feel bad, its epidemic, and not a bug, it's a feature.
Those born 1890's got the really bad cards, two world wars and then the cold war in their old days.
LBB - Both my parents are 86. Both say they grew up in the best of times. My mother remembers having a ball and that's about it growing up - and they all played together in the alleys and used their imaginations and had a great time. Strong sense of community. I envy the times they grew up in.
real estate check wrote:
Keep up the good work.
"another brilliant scheme that claims to help Americans while benefiting the well connected". There fixed it for you. Nobody who actually believes in governments ability and wants government to help ordinary people would have designed such a program.
Israel has somewhere around a few dozen nukes or more and has submarines from which to launch them, and yet Iran with no nukes is perceived to be the problem child...
Pellice wrote:
no it's not just your relatives. it seems they are somewhat detached from the 'out-there-stuff' in their life, stuff that they see little or no control over and have no desire to spend their life screaming at the fools on tv; ie, the same fools that run the show. besides, can you imagine a 20-something watching katie couric? or diane sawyer?
ironic- given your "outsider" name.
I don't know how good those times were for the people on the outside. I suppose as a white male it would be appropriate to envy those times.
crazyv - They were an immigrant family, not "white males". 1st generation.
Oh, and the family of 5 lived in a 1 bedroom apt. all my mother's years at home. Hardly privileged.
I say: withdraw from the Middle East and let the Jews and Muslims kill each other all they want to. Take the money we save and invest it in replacing natural gas power plants with Wind, Solar and Nuclear and convert our cars to run on natural gas, thus eliminating our need for imported oil.
lawyerliz wrote:
Best wishes on a speedy recovery and back to your litigating and commenting. My better half got 10 plus a plate in an elbow a couple of years ago from a push bike mishap, and all seems well.
Israel has somewhere around a few dozen nukes
Never mind. IMHO Israel will never use nukes unless the point is reached where it would make no difference anyway. The consequences of even limited nuclear war...
JP wrote:
OK, I was a boomer teen. My schools were more or less useless. And it wasn't the teachers. It was cruelty and meanness of soul from the other students. But, that propelled me to read, and read, and talk with other people, and QUESTION what was all around me. I had a couple of good teachers, the rest were too busy trying to control the class. I don't expect schools to touch off the sparks of a searching mind.
I think that we - all of us - need to start challenging young people to be less certain, to have less confidence, to feel the unease and uncertainty that is part of life. And to look to history, to literature, to religion, to other people to find out how much we all stumble and how little we know.
saved by the
"So how are you gonna fix the wasteland? Or are you going to crawl into hole and ignore it. "
Probably the wasteland is going to fix us sooner or later. Some excellent future Ted will find a old biology book underneath tons of shit and figure out one excellent idea that Gatorade ain't good for the plants. Few pages later the excellent future Ted will get the idea that his tribe wisemen are actually just dumb shits. Then merely 5-10 tribal wars later everything will be just fine and ponies will once again live happily ever after. Future Excellent Ted will be up there with the Jesus and Gandhi.
lawyerliz wrote:
Wow, go to a single one-hour meeting and miss a hundred comments, a broken leg, and a new icon!
Echoing everyone else's
sentiments - get better soon and get the heck outta the hospital ASAP.
Bubblisimo Gerkinov wrote:
No one is bombing Iran. China , Russia, and India have long term contracts with Iran period.
lawyerliz wrote:
Ouch! Sorry to hear that LL. It's no wonder Motrin didn't help.
Pellice, I do that a lot, and not just with twenty-somethings. And they like it. They aren't used to being interested and seem surprised how much they enjoy themselves.
I say the current crop are as bright, thoughtful and funny as any before them.
just finished eating hospital swill.
iT'S just that this laptop is so hard to deal with and I am typing one fintgered.
Go for the praying bit, Pavel if it makes YOU feel better.
The hospital is a trly weird combination of low and high tech. For example,
THERE' THE FACT THAT6 THEY can fis mr with a tiny cut and 3 screws. But getting me on the operating table from the wheeled bed, or on the xray or cat scan table is a major problem.
Liz - Did you catch my note about the osteo drugs [potentially] contributing to femur fractures?
rosethorn wrote:
From my reading of their capabilities, I believe Iran is capable of closing the gulf to shipping for a time.
Could we last 60 days with greatly reduced or no gasoline? I think we'd fold.
Never understood why they serve dreck for dinner. I suppose they discourage friends with casseroles?
Awwwwwwww.
Take care of yourself. And I hope the hospital isn't too bad and you recover quickly.
(If you tried to treat it with Motrin, I assume it is not a major break: no bones sticking through the skin, etc.)
lawyerliz
an add on liz.
im so sorry,know you said that you fell,best of luck to you. ready to listen to comments on hospitals.
Hospitals are a lot more bearable if you have a non-hospitalized friend/relative to advocate for you. You'll get what you ask for...so sorry to hear you are having to deal with this, Liz.
The gift that keeps on giving....
LL,
With out insurance they would use Super glue and save on the Titanium screws! Sorry to hear about your fall and hope you get better real soon!
We too, have paid in - in earnest money to help our retirement program. Now, all I hear, is kill me and push my pension onto the next generation. Do we need to stop this division between generations? I don't want my children (in their 40s, to be responsible for me) but I do want to access the benefits I worked for - for the last 50 years - which were promised to me when I was in my twenties. It is not working out, folks.
Sickening.
ROL - here's hoping for a taxpayer revolt this fall.