Greenspan to Testify before Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission
Submitted by
CalculatedRisk on Wed, 03/10/2010 - 1:21pm (390 comments)
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I am sure that will be most informative.
Maybe he can regale us with some more life epiphanies. Maybe he will grab the microphone and shout, "BUY GOLD WHILE YOU STILL CAN!"
Anything is possible with The Man.
Will he say "mistakes were made"?
If they had addressed the lending problems it would have lead to a downturn in the economy and the regulators would be very unpopular and people would get voted out of office.
It really is that simple!
LOL - WSJ missing key issues - hoocoodanode. Even fish heads wrapped in the WSJ are stupider.
India's Next Outsourcing Wave - BusinessWeek
Does anybody else think this is absurd? I thought debt was the one remaining thing we still export?!
i think he is going to go with playing the saxophone in a bathtub
Nemo, people ask about this commission all the time in emails. My response has been I don't think it will accomplish much (if anything). But I do think this is the one opportunity to ask a key person what he was doing in 2003 and 2004.
I've heard from examiners who have told me they were blocked from above at every turn - and even transferred if they presisted in pointing out the problems. I believe this was because of ideological reasons and by people like Greenspan. If so - and I'm pretty sure I'm right - then how do the proposed changes protect from the ideologues in the future? As far as I can tell they don't.
best to all
Nerd. I saw that slogan on a t-shirt. Yes, I know that the Daleks started climbing in the 1980s.
Unfortunately the WSJ article discusses "subprime" and Fannie and Freddie - and misses all the key issues.
snark/
CalculatedRisk wrote:
Why is that a surprise? Nobody likes party-poopers.
@ HomeGnome -- Portland is a lot of fun. Pub crawls are a blast, but don't miss the art museum or the Japanese Garden, if you get a chance.
I'd like to wake up one morning to:
Greenspan to Testify before Federal Grand Jury
CalculatedRisk wrote:
"Asking" is one thing, but getting him to answer is a whole different kettle of fish.
Grilled Greenspan:
or 
?
I was impressed by the Commission's 2nd panel (after the celebrity banker panel) but I doubt we will see much grilling.
yagij wrote:
You say that like it's a bad thing.
ac wrote:
remember?
If they had addressed the lending problems it would have lead to a downturn in the economy and the regulators would be very unpopular and people would get voted out of office.
People don't like bad news except as consumption entertainment when it doesn't affect them directly. Everything from public service to public companies is infected by this bias and tendency to deny reality. We're all in this together
"Eye vas only followink orders!"
Anonymous Bosch wrote:
ahhhh...we all have to have DREAMS.
Can we call in Phil Gramm next?
JP wrote:
And then there's the matter of understanding what he said....
CalculatedRisk wrote:
We elected ideologues who then appointed ideologues and we're surprised they acted like ideologues. They ought to bring voters in front of this commission & grill them... "So Mr. & Mrs John Q Public... WTH were you thinking?"
Nanoo-Nanoo wrote:
ahhhh...we all have to have DREAMS.
Can we call in Phil Gramm next?
It's time like this which call for a guest appearance by the Messiah, coming down from the clouds with his army of UFOs. Fire up the holographic projectors!!!
The market continues to march solidly sideways.
dryfly wrote:
Careful! We ALL might have some 'splainin' to do if that's the criteria.....
Anonymous Bosch wrote:
In my dream, he's indicted by the GJ, not testifying before it.
As long as we are dreaming...I was always partial to drawn and quartered as punishment for high treason.
Why wasn't action taken earlier to tighten lending standards?
LOL!!!
Congress in no way, shape, or form wanted tightened lending standards back then. They don't even want them now!
I'd buy Greenspan
if he gives 'em the Eichmann defense.
Great line, nova. Keep that ball rolling.
Greenspan = Dr. Strangelove
YouTube - Dr. Strangelove - 1964 Part 7/11
CalculatedRisk wrote:
It takes idealism to guard against ideologues, and ideology by its nature tends to be rigid and tenacious.
Again, these aren't economic or regulatory issues.
but Liz? I'm waiting for my dividend check...I know its coming, I JUST KNOW IT!
American International Group Inc. surged 11 percent amid speculation asset sales will improve the insurer’s viability. Financial shares in the Standard & Poor’s 500 Index climbed for a ninth straight day, the longest streak in 12 years.
U.S. Stocks Gain on Economic Optimism as Financials Rally - Bloomberg.com
dryfly wrote:
"I was thinking I could flip before the music stopped."
sportsfan,
And one 3 times. Oh well....
As hard as it may be to believe, I'm not very conversant of the minutia of Criminal Justice Industry. By "testifying" I meant being indicted.
If the DOJ devoted all their resources to cleaning up the mess we're in for 10 years with indictments handed down every single day, we'd barely scratch the surface.
Not to be pedantic, but we already know the answer to this question: nothing.
It's what Randians do best!
How is AIG going to make money if they have no units left?
CalculatedRisk wrote:
As far as I can tell, one person's ideology is another person's perceived rationality, and that works both ways. Both the left and the right can be pretty dogmatic, and along with that seems to be a shared intolerance of the middle ground.
dr munch wrote:
Selling CDS's of course.
Charles Kiting wrote:
LOL!!! +1
dr munch wrote:
Stop that, suspend logic and BELIEVE!
You can't go after Greenspan for being an anti-regulator only to finish your sentence before mentioning Bernanke. Ending sentences mid stride makes me feel
Mook wrote:
It's what Randians do best!
The Fee Market knows all!
No operations costs. Productivity goes up. Shares should go to the moon.
Having someone who has retired testify when neither he, nor anyone else, is charged for a crime is useless. Though maybe the Oracle will bless us with some profundity like:
“It has been my experience that competency in mathematics, both in numerical manipulations and in understanding its conceptual foundations, enhances a person's ability to handle the more ambiguous and qualitative relationships that dominate our day-to-day financial decision-making.”
dryfly wrote:
I guess this is where I disagree with a lot of you. I don't think we've elected any ideologues in recent years. Except maybe GWB who was a bit of a religious ideologue. Instead I think we've been electing a bunch of self-serving pragmatists, and this tends to be the curse that haunts liberal/secular societies, whatever other merits such societies might have (one of them being economic in my view).
Nanoo-Nanoo wrote:
Go-Go Specucovery !!
Is the CR reader survey for real?
When I logged on I was asked to participate in a CR survey, which asked about my investment habits.
I'm wondering if it's real or not. I just closed it out.
Anonymous Bosch wrote:
No operations costs. Productivity goes up. Shares should go to the moon.
Infinite Justice.
Enduring Freedom.
Nanoo-Nanoo wrote:
:eyeroll: My guess is that it will just expose their insolvency.
Middle Class extinct-MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.
scone,
We're going to capital city grill for happy hour and then Wildwood for dinner.
What say ye?
I think those are taken already.
Outsider wrote:
Yes, it is real and the correct answers are 'peak oil' and 'gold'.
Off to look at some racing sailboats down at Viaduct Harbour Louis Vuitton Trophy WSTA | Auckland - New Zealand | 9-21 Mar 2010
Believing in the current Federal Reserve system is a political ideology, just like "laissez-faire" or "deregulation". It's not rocket science, or even science.
ac wrote:
A distinction without a difference.
mission accompliced
rb - ha ha. It wanted to know not only my income, but how big my investment portfolio was and how many trades I made last month. That's when I shut it down.
Are you Teri Hatcher?
Uncle Ar wrote:
Infinite Justice.
Enduring Freedom.
I think those are taken already.
Terrorist Fist Job?
ac wrote:
Not in this case - we elected people who intentionally appointed others who thwarted the laws wrt regulatory mission because they didn't believe in regulation. It would have been one thing to take it all back to congress and say - this is our mission, we disagree with it so change it. Didn't happen. Instead they just ignored, delayed and 'reviewed' it to death.
And that is the worst kind of 'deregulation' - its completely subjective at the ministerial level and open to personal interpretation and not rule of law. The only checks you get are afterward - as in this commission - after the water is under the bridge, over the dam and out to sea.
HomeGnome wrote:
Good choices! Wildwood is very sophisticated, but local and mostly organic. Good wine list, too. Don't forget the pub food though, Portland has great pub grub, especially in the Pearl.
I like it.
'This might be the one real opportunity to understand why regulators missed the lending problems.'
I'm not feeling like my understanding of regulatory capture is really missing that much. The kind of questions I'd want Greenspan to answer are not the kind that anyone in that room is going to ask. In fact I feel like taking any piece of their little pastiche of an investigation at face value is just playing into their hands.
CR, thank you for pointing out a serious pet peeve of mine. This crisis was not caused by the "subprime mess," a myth the mainstream media loves to propagate. Subprime was a red herring. The cause of this mess was and is debt. Debt, debt, debt. It's a debt crisis.
Financial historians of our grandchildren's generation will refer to AIG common stock as the single most emblematic thing about the insanity of this entire crisis.
"That's right: Despite throwing roughly 200 billion dollars at AIG - nearly 2% of the country's GDP, an amount so staggering in those days as to be beyond comprehension - officials couldn't even bring themselves to wipe out AIG's common stock, the very lowest rung on the ownership ladder. It was as if your child had totalled your jetcar while flying drunk and you hadn't even bothered to take away the keys."
tweet from today....
Goldman Sachs China. Please listen carefully to the menu options, as our Chairman has changed.
@pkedrosky Thank you for calling
As long as we have a two-tiered justice system, there won't be any justice in either tier.
When these scumbags realize at the outset of their careers that 20 years in Leavenworth is a distinct possibility for "misdeeds", government service will become less attractive to the pocket-liners , pimps, and panders currently gorging at the public trough.
Being forced to spend more time with one's family just doesn't cut it, no matter how odious those families may be.
Thanks for the advice scone.
Well Mrs. Gnome is almost done getting freshened up so...
Later Taters!
Mook
Don't forget the bonuses and the nice retreat/conference/party
MSM thought it was funny when no one knew what he was saying, really worked out well for us, no. At the time of all the giggles Greenspan was the most influencial man in the US.
ac wrote:
The ideological imprint went far beyond religion. The four fat white guys using a chainsaw on "regulations" (circa 2004) was a perfect illustration of ideology at work.
We are living with the results.
ResistanceIsFeudal wrote:
Waterbonding. California pulled a rabbit out of its hat pre-selling retail 655 of its $2b bonds.
Charles Kiting wrote:
If everyone else is dancing while the music is playing, then you have to keep dancing with them.
Anonymous Bosch wrote:
Being forced to spend more time with one's family just doesn't cut it, no matter how odious those families may be.
If the super-rich entitled elites aren't there to shape their childrens' behavior, where will we ever find the damaged psychopaths with sufficient intelligence and ego to take over their exploitative organizations?
dryfly wrote:
The whole post is +1.
When it was clear in the late 70's that the New Deal policies had failed, we went the "let FIRE do whatever they want" route and for 30 years the whole country loved it. Our two biggest political cult heroes of the 20th century were FDR and Reagan and all they really did was kick the can harder and farther than their peers.
Remember when CNBC used to show the greenspan 'briefcase' before his public meetings? I wonder if they will be showing his prosecutor's briefcase some day.
Rob Dawg wrote:
Suckers still have some money over in CA. Maybe it was all drug money being laundered?
yagij wrote:
Message to self - next time I go dancing with any of them make sure to wear my steel toed work boots.
AG needs to flesh out the 'independence' of the federal reserve during his tenure. I think it was from Fleck's book but I remember reading how AG rarely visited the WH when Clinton was in power but when GWB became president the visits came almost weekly. And did those visits in anyway influence his greenlighting W's tax cuts and regulatory-look-the-other-way?
It's been a long day of meetings today, and I'm tired, but I did enjoy this link from Slumdog in the last thread. I had heard that Gensler was not behaving the way that his friends had anticipated he would, but I didn't think he was being this pig-headed.
Maybe we shouldn't trust him because he used to work for the
, but he's saying the right things. Which is more than I can say for most of the elected representatives.
FT.com / Capital Markets - CFTC urges end to derivatives secrecy
deleted by me...gotta run.
I look forward to seeing what Greenspan has to say. I'm sure it will not deviate significantly from what he has previously said.
There was an interesting recent article in Fortune in which Greenspan defended his actions...well worth reading. The link is found in my recent blog post here:
Alan Greenspan "Takes On His Critics" | EconomicGreenfield
Greenspan should just sit in front of the commission and say : "I'm sorry I have no recollection of any of these events."
~splat
splat wrote:
Why not? Reagan used it over 50% of the time when the subject was Iran-Contra.
splat wrote:
And it would all be true...
YouTube - Mr Magoo Opening Theme
What does Gensler propose to do about the existing, opaque quadrillion or so already written?
The real problem with that issuance is that it only covers some of the new money needed for our voter approved boondoggles from last fall (ie high speed rail).
Glad I got to read it before it disappeared. Right on, Sistah!
Nova:
I've started the agent route as well but am in the early stages and only out to a handful. But did you hear from all of them or was silence golden?
yagij wrote:
Even if they're dancing on the end of a rope?
I think he should clutch at his chest. Then slump over the table as the camera goes close on his face. A quiet whisper, picked up by his mic of course, "Glod, I love this country so..." Then they carry him out, he goes back to work, and life is good.
You suggesting AG was senile all along? I'd believe that.
Homedad,
It was almost always form email rejection. If you want, you can send me an email, and I will tell you what little I have learned other than rejection sucks.
Financial derivatives made possible the mortgage securities that made mortgages cheap and easy which raised demand which raised prices and created and the refi-ATM near you.
yagij wrote:
When the St. Vitus Dance starts, run for your lives and let the stupid musicians get sick.
1 currency now -yogi wrote:
At this point I'd settle for the baby step of making all future derivative transactions transparent and accountable to regulators. It doesn't cure the past, but it would, at the very least, be the first step toward building a more stable economic system.
And if this even had half a chance of succeeding it'd be the death-knell for Wall Street as this is one of their last golden geese. Transparency already cost them inflated bid-ask spreads in equities during the 80's, and all of those lost fees and hidden costs associated with an opaque OTC market are their current competitive advantage. Lose that and we'll look back at 2006 as the high-water mark for Wall Street and the
.
Nova:
Expect one the next day or so.
Thanks.
yagij wrote:
The problem was the music was a John Cage composition.
Charles Kiting wrote:
Which in the end has to leave you wondering - were either set of policies really failures? Thirty years of prosperity isn't nothing. And the problems we've inherited are in some ways the stuff of illusion, chits and tokens of debt, undeserved social position, corrupted systems that (at least in principle) can be replaced in short order. Our skills and resources are largely intact (oil and water shortages notwithstanding, we're not too bad off). Some things we even have more of than we need (houses and consumer goods). Our problems only look intractable to someone who accepts money as the measure of all things...
o boy! they are really gonna grill greenspan! that old middle management banker suckup is gonna hear it from this commission. the time is now! justice has been served greenspan!
splat wrote:
Or he could say "I just inherited the mess from Volcker."
I expect that his answers will ultimately be as unintelligible as they were when he was chairman.
Professor Irwin Corey, redux.
"To modernize after its crisis, the U.S. financial industry needs help from India's IT outsourcers more than ever, says Sudhakar Ram "
China must be secretly funding them as part of a long range plan to bring down the West.
If they "help" they get is anything like the "help" we got from India's IT outsourcers we're screwed.
Charles Kiting wrote:
Or invoke the memory of poor dead Ronnie, who isn't here to defend himself. Probably pretty close to the truth... Ronnie wanted someone who'd keep the punchbowl full.
This should be a real snoozefest.
Jack Staub wrote:
Loose monetary policy provided the liquidity necessary to bid up the prices of those financial derivatives and turn an exotic financial instrument into a significant component--and risk to--the greater economy. Limited regulatory oversight allowed issuing companies to participate without ensuring they maintained sufficient reserves in order to meet potential redemptions.
There's plenty of blame to go around, but I blame derivatives for the financial crisis like I blame hammers for a poorly-built
.
That would make some spectacular theater !
~splat
dont worry greenspan will be dead sometime soon, hes an old man. he will have a grand ole time with his billionaire buddies in hell.
cya
sportsfan wrote:
Two things:
noob goldberg wrote:
Limited regulatory oversight allowed issuing companies to participate without ensuring they maintained sufficient reserves in order to meet potential redemptions.
Hoocoodanode they wouldn't be honest and self-regulate their market with the highest level of professional ethical standards and accountability?
Some muni in Fl. today would not let BofA participate in their bond let because of their mortgage brehaha.
Charles Kiting wrote:
Especially if they are dancing on the end of a rope--if it is tied to everyone else's ankle.
ResistanceIsFeudal wrote:
noob goldberg wrote:
The "Buy America Bonds" scandal might be the fulcrum that moves the world. This entire market run up without retail participation suggests that people are tired of market manipulation. The people are ready for transparency.
sportsfan wrote:
Did Reagan testify before Congress?
Charles Kiting wrote:
And kicking the can is fine in a pinch so long as it isn't mistaken for a long term fix [as was the case for both New Deal & Reagan Revolution]... but no one wants to do that later so we get what we got in late 90s & 00s.
But its really more like hockey & dumping the puck than kicking the can. Dumping isn't a good play in and of itself but IF the next wave flowing in fore checks like crazy it can lead to a good play and eventual goal IF your team gets control of the puck [off the fore check]. Dumping puck is easy - just toss the puck in. Fore checking is hard - means you're going face to face with big ugly guys trying to go the other way. It hurts - lots of elbows & sticks flying around & bodies bounced up against the glass. If it isn't done well the opposition breaks out clean and you are on defense fast.
Politicians LOVE to dump puck - they then head to the bench and leave the rest of us in society to do the fore checking & take the lumps. Same as it always was.
the people are ready for more unemployment checks and food stamps and big banks on every corner (i swear i see more bank buildings than fast food restaurants these days!)
noob goldberg wrote:
ResistanceIsFeudal wrote:
Hoocoodanode they wouldn't be honest and self-regulate their market with the highest level of professional ethical standards and accountability?
I've had enough of this day.
edit: "...as they supervised hundreds of billions in capital flows through their private markets"
bbartlog wrote:
I do not think that word means what you think it means...
energyecon: Distribution of Real Income Growth since 1980
I'm old, still work everyday, and my biggest problem is with the ethics of my government. Don't care who's left or right, byglod quit being deceitful and enriching one class over another. Without an even playing field we all lose..
Sudhakar Ram. And he works for whom?
bleh wrote:
I suspect that at various times, many of the members of this commission were "in league" with Greenspan and his policies.
Hottie alert:
Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission | Commissioner Heather H. Murren, CFA
bbartlog wrote:
If we behave as if they were sustainable, then they were failures.
Cinco-X wrote:
WTF?!?
Don't you individuals think about walking away, now, it is immoral
Silverstein May Default on Debt for 575 Lexington (Update1) - Bloomberg.com
"New York developer Larry Silverstein, who teamed with the California State Teachers Retirement System to buy a 35-story office tower in 2006, now faces “imminent default” on debt tied to the property, Fitch Ratings said today.
Silverstein and Calstrs paid $400 million for the Manhattan building near the height of the U.S. property boom. A loan balance of $325 million was transferred to so-called special servicing today, Fitch said.
Dara McQuillan, a Silverstein spokesman in New York, had no immediate comment.
Investors are defaulting on loan payments for commercial real estate at record levels as vacancies at malls, offices and industrial properties climb and rents fall. Delinquencies on loans packaged and sold as commercial mortgage-backed securities rose to a record 6.7 percent in February from 1.7 percent a year earlier, according to New York-based research firm Trepp LLC. "
I think that's what they call "a target rich environment."
Charles Kiting wrote:
Partially true, but it's obvious even to Greenspan that he made a major contribution to this mess.....something about an error in his model or some such.
stock market climbing, fed balance sheet climbing, deficit climbing, coincidence??
Budget deficit sets record in February - Yahoo! Finance
Why aren't these "regulators" being indicted for aiding and abetting massive fraud and counterfeiting operations around the country?
If someone were to start printing fake $20s by the billions and handing them out, the Feds would bust down their doors, helicopters would hover overhead, and there would be public trials.
Why is it any different when bank regulators look the other way during some of the most obviously questionable practices of the credit/real estate bubble? Liar loans in billions? Why isn't that just plain fraud up and down the chain? Selling those loans off by the billions? Why isn't that a simple act of counterfeiting?
Why has no one been charged for stealing BILLIONS upon BILLIONS from taxpayers?
is that the same larry who made billions from the wtc tower collapse? didn't he put insurance like two months before 911? poor guy, should have put more insurance on these buldings. im pretty sure he will be made whole, hes got buddies in high places.
poic wrote:
Wasn't China traditionally a partner with Pakistan, and aren't they now a major competitor with India? Or is that just what they want us to think?
I heard a bit of an interview on NPR with Geroge Soros where he was explaining that much of the big money to be made in the financial world is where there are gaps in financial regulations.
The interviewer pointed out that Soros made much of his money including his bet on the pound breaking in this way and asked Mr. Soros if he agreed in the need for regulation even if it would have prevented him (and others) from making the money they made.
Mr. Soro's answer was yes.
A refreshing, candid answer regardless of you opinion on Mr. Soros.
Cinco-X, Hottie alert......Hub is Ceo of MGM, and I did inquire his age.
"Wasn't China traditionally a partner with Pakistan, and aren't they now a major competitor with India? Or is that just what they want us to think?"
The Chinese are pragmatists when it comes to money.
MrBeach wrote:
For the same reason lawyers are never attacked by sharks. Professional courtesy.
Cinco-X wrote:
The Bush years represent the low point of the past century in allowing the looting to become systemic.
If you want to say Social Security was a Ponzi scheme in the 1930s, I'd agree, but that isn't half the problem we now face. There was time to save this country in the recent past and instead the patient was euthanized quite intentionally so that parasites could suck off its flesh.
Cinco-X wrote:
Given - if they were in power then they were 100% on board. Remember John McCain's line from the 2000 primary election debates - he said if Greenspan died suddenly he'd have him stuffed and reappointed and hoped the markets wouldn't notice the difference. They all felt that way back then.
noob goldberg wrote:
It's still stunning to me to think that a sector that was once 5% of our economy grew to be 20% of GDP, all without ever actually producing anything truly tangible.
dryfly wrote:
+100
You have successfully compared our government to Bill Wirtz.
I sure hope Greenspan lives long enough to witness the economic horror he created for tens of millions of American families.
Then he can die with the public shame he deserves.
I get the impression that Greenspan honestly thought the private market would regulate itself due to a self-preservation instinct.
I don't get the idea that Greenspan was as corrupt as much of wall-street. Deluded perhaps, in an ivory tower but I've listened to him and I think he genuinely believed in his theories and was quite crushed when they fell apart.
Cinco-X wrote:
Then he can use the force: blame 9/11.
MrBeach wrote:
Junkies never rat out their dealers.
"I get the impression that Greenspan honestly thought the private market would regulate itself due to a self-preservation instinct."
i get the impression greenspan was a failed musician that knew the right people at the right time. the guys nothing special. just some middle management banker who isn't afraid to say 'yes!'
poic wrote:
FDR chose Joe Kennedy for two reasons [1] he was the sneakiest SOB on Wall Street and knew every way possible to cheat & game the system - who better to write regulations than the best cheats [2] he wanted to know where he was.
Soros would make a good SEC Chairman IF they could keep track of him.
Cinco-X wrote:
That's for you, Cinco. Says it all.
Bernanke is still championing the same Wall St. crimes that Greenspan championed. Namely, Wall St. is using the privilege of credit creation to extract wealth rather than create wealth.
The jig is up. To much wealth has been extracted. The middle is completely hollowed out. The foundation is now rotten.
poic wrote:
"After I make my money we should have a crackdown."
Ain't nothin' noble 'bout that.
dryfly wrote:
Also, Soros has already made his billions so closing down on the reg. loopholes doesn't hurt him. It only keeps the barrier of entry up behind him to prevent any turks from doing to him what he did to his peers and elders.
energyecon wrote:
Are those "dollars" on the right hand column adjusted for inflation? They must be; that, or the bottom 3 quintiles are earning a lot of unclaimed income.
I'm not falling for that 'harmless deluded old buffer' act.
Read some of the FOMC minutes and you can see how he ruled. Look at the people that got booted off the gravy train for disagreeing.
He knew what he was doing.
poic wrote:
I read his autobiography-- I got the impression of someone who was intelligent, extremely vain, but oddly naive, and with absolutely no imagination. Certainly not enough imagination and foresight to extrapolate into the future.
yagij wrote:
I take it Heather H. Murren, CFA is a little too classy for your tastes?
sportsfan wrote:
No it wasn't. It was kept alive and exploited a la Terry Schaivo.
Charles Kiting wrote:
depends on how much hard time they're facing.
Based on my hits in the past two days, I suspect the Federal gov't has lost far more credibility in the past few months than it appears on the surface.
Cinco-X wrote:
She is a part of an inner circle so inner-connected that they may be making Rothchild-esque offspring within a generation or two.
nova
good work on the interview. I noticed he mentioned some typos in Vol 1. You might want to take advantage of your fan base and give out a few proof copies of Vol II and have people read for the purpose of picking up those typos before going to print. It wouldn't take too many people to catch them all.
MrBeach wrote:
Plausible deniability? "We were too overloaded and too understaffed"....
bernanke hahaha, the guys a puppet clown. its all just a mafia on wall street and washington. as long as the people let is happen, it will continue. for some reason i dont think it will continue for too long. im guessing before 2020, there will be some 'black swan' and all these idiots will be killing each other. sorta like goodfellas but on a billionaire scale.
the world isn't fair... but there is some divine justice even for these fools.
MaryAnn wrote:
Your hub or her hub?
Never mind:
broward wrote:
It would be interesting to graph those hits against the various approval ratings polls.
If I could ask Greenspan or any other bankster that should have known better (they are the smartest guys in the room, right??) ONE question:
With the median household income (2008) of 52K pencil out a family budget including an amortized mortgage (we're buying not renting, right?) that balances justifying the median home price during the 00's.
You may ask for another eraser if needed.
scone wrote:
Exactly.
it's easy to underestimate the Ingenuity of the Desperate.
See CA gov't story for the past 18 months.
scone wrote:
You mean Ayn Rand?
sportsfan wrote:
How old are you?
Rob Dawg wrote:
Funny.
I suspect that the truly shrewd leaders know that any attempt to expose the truth could lead to another loss of confidence in the system. Once again, there hope seems to be lets reduce the cost of capital and the market heal itself.
I'm reminded of Enron's attack on California's power markets. When PG&E blew up their cash pile and went to Governor Gray Davis for assistance, he wrote Enron a $5 billion check for power priced at 10x to 20x its prevailing rates. Instead of manning up and saying there has to be fraud and I'm not paying a dime of the citizens money before understanding the divergence in rates, he bent over and paid.
Less than 10 years later, Hank Paulson and Bernanke did the same thing - they paid of the banks for their shoddy practices.
At least with Enron we got convictions. Why is this all getting shoved under the rugh?
You guys are talking over my head again. Who are these "regulators" you keep mentioning?
Finally a hottie alert worth noting, unlike some of bow wows that have been dragged through here. It' hell hanging around with shut-ins.
sm_landlord wrote:
I'm hoping the Icesave vote is giving Americans the idea that they might actually have a say in how Amerisave plays out.
'Why is this all getting shoved under the rugh? '
banana republic america?
sm_landlord wrote:
It's qualitative and subjective..
I wish I could quantify it.
But it looks like many more gov't (both State and Federal) are paying attention to the economic margin.
Rob Dawg wrote:
We have geothermal and cod too?
Charles Kiting wrote:
I think he's already testified before Congress and said something about the errors of his model. I think it's too much to saddle him with all of the blame. There's plenty to go around, and picking out one person sounds more like scapegoating than anything else....
Cinco-X wrote:
Too young to have experienced the Harding Administration, the previous low point of the past century.
dryfly wrote:
Coal and brookies. You should be sitting pretty.
Thank god Greenspan lived long enough to see his social experiment fail in precisely the manner in which his detractors predicted.
If only Keynes were still alive.
Rob Dawg wrote:
Sadly I doubt it. What fraction of the population would even know what that's about?
dryfly wrote:
We have tons of fish... like Snakeheads. As for geothermal, what do you call those cow pastures? It is all thermal located in certain geographical locations.
broward wrote:
I guess their jobs might be looking a little bit at risk, at the moment.
That tends to focus people's attention.
since 2k8 ive been 'hoping' america would make some noise for justice... but nothing. again, as long as we get our cake (ue/foodstamps) nothing will change. i'd say it would take something like no tv or internet for a few weeks b4 we would get 'mad'. until then, things are A-OK (DOW IS AT 10k!)
yagij wrote:
That has nothing to do with her being attractive-
We only have geothermal deniers and pieces of cod.
sm_landlord wrote:
I'm guessing the same thing but really, the jobs were at risk two years ago, too.
I suppose it's just personal time horizon has caught up to real-time events.
Anonymous Bosch wrote:
You're welcome
dryfly: like the hockey analogy, but you left out the part about when dumping is a good thing: during the shift change. that way the next shift has to worry about forechecking.
Cinco-X wrote:
No, it allows me to avoid the obvious point that I couldn't afford her with your line of credit.
.
Sitting from the sideline when it comes to that kind of action.
broward wrote:
They're the easiest to buy off for the mid-terms.
Cinco-X wrote:
That doesn't resonate with anybody. It's wise on Greenspan's part, no one in Congress understands anything about economics, let alone economic models. But Congress insists on giving us our Two Minutes Hate, and answers like that just make Ron Paul spin out of control.
Cinco-X wrote:
There's plenty of blame to go around but AG was one of the kingpins - make no mistake about that.
Regardless: That was just about the weakest resume for someone named "Commissioner" on the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission.
I want to see words like "uncovered" "investigated" "achieved N convictions (or better still, hangings)"
sportsfan wrote:
How about the Carter Administration?
The late Paul Samuelson on Greenspan:
And this brings us to Alan Greenspan, whom I've known for over 50 years and who I regarded as one of the best young business economists. Townsend-Greenspan was his company. But the trouble is that he had been an Ayn Rander. You can take the boy out of the cult but you can't take the cult out of the boy. He actually had instruction, probably pinned on the wall: 'Nothing from this office should go forth which discredits the capitalist system. Greed is good.'
However, unlike someone like Milton, Greenspan was quite streetwise. But he was overconfident that he could handle anything that arose. I can remember when some of us -- and I remember there were a lot of us in the late 90s -- said you should do something about the stock bubble. And he kind of said, 'look, reasonable men are putting their money into these things -- who are we to second guess them?' Well, reasonable men are not reasonable when you're in the bubbles which have characterized capitalism since the beginning of time.
Our Interview with Paul Samuelson (1915 - 2009) - Business - The Atlantic
Always extending and pretending. This time they are extending April Fool's Day.
dryfly wrote:
Great analogy +1. Thanks
Uncle Ar wrote:
It is an election year after all.
dryfly wrote:
Wasn't she his GF?
Speed wrote:
[Citation needed] for the detractors. We need some that were saying this in, say, 1991.
Uncle Ar wrote:
We need puck passing and instead we get buck passing.
One wonders if people like AG are even capable of experiencing humiliation.
Thank god Greenspan lived long enough to see his social experiment fail in precisely the manner in which his detractors predicted.
I look forward to Andrea Mitchell's 'reporting' on the FCIC for The Today Show.
Cinco-X wrote:
Only if they believe the check won't bounce.
scone wrote:
I believe so - kinda snarky on my part huh?
"The late Paul Samuelson on Greenspan:.."
the media gives this guy, and many other esteemed economists, too much credit. its all just greed and who you know, nothing more.
dont bite the hand that supposedly feeds us with trickle down cash!
scone wrote:
Naw, but I think he spanked the chimp to her a lot.
yagij wrote:
Neither could I, but truth be told, folks that hang around at that altitude expect a lot more of a spouse than I'm willing to provide. I'd rather stay home and watch the game on Sunday afternoon than spend all of my time schmoozing trying to make it to the next level...
dryfly wrote:
So then he's used to being whipped.
Ladies and Gentleman in the center ring we have the latest Dog and Pony Show!
Cinco-X wrote:
How 'bout it?
scone wrote:
An early example of a Cougar?
dryfly wrote:
Well, he's always talking about her, so it was an easy potshot.
scone wrote:
Just friends with benefits.
bleh wrote:
I believe it is more than greed sometimes. I think greed + luck + stupidity + ego = vulnerability to make catastrophic decisions.
Cinco, I basically did a ping into "less credible sources" and I'm shocked to see how many State & Federal people live there now.
broward wrote:
The beauty of those on the economic margin is that it only takes a small check to satisfy them, and the small checks are less likely to bounce. Sad really-
Anticipated your reply, see answer preceding you.
Ho ho! WHO is the master?!
sportsfan wrote:
Were you around for it?
scone wrote:
When I think of Ayn Rand & Greenspan I always think of Young Frankenstein & Frau Blucher
bleh wrote:
No, I can see him as a true believer -- and a "useful idio.t" Greenspan made it to Fed Reserve chief because he was just the kind of idiot that Wall Street wanted; one who would ignore their excessives, or at least defend them as virtues.
broward wrote:
Cinco-X wrote:
I think it'd be very effective if she came out in a Wonder Woman costume, along with her magic rope she uses to tie up Very Bad Boys and make them tell the truth.
dryfly wrote:
Eew. I'm trying not to think. At all.
broward wrote:
You've been baiting me; you are the master baiter....
You guys are such. . . . guys.
scone wrote:
:brainscrub:
Cinco-X wrote:
Of course. What's your point? I said the Bush Administration broke the record for allowing looting under the official sanction of the federal government, the previous record having been held by the Harding Administration.
Maury the Credit Responsibility Panda wrote:
I'd be willing to testify!
scone wrote:
Sorta rhymes, huh?
broward wrote:
YouTube - Kung Fu Intro
Bob Dobbs wrote:
Even better, he also ignored Congress's excesses.
And I'd confess to... whatever. No wonder I was so taken with her likeness, she looks just like Mrs.B.
You around for the Harding administration?
OT, but Jackson medical center has, like, another 3 weeks of cash and
then it's busted.
Employees saying they do not make too much. . . nobody should be let go.
I guess they know about hearts and arms and legs, but not bouncing checks.
Every time we've had a deregulatory love fest we've crashed in a monstrous fashion. See the first Depression for details. Bucket shops then, CDS now. We have an Oligarchy. Doesn't matter which side of the aisle you crow from it should be apparent by now. Now what are we going to do about it? How about Bush, Clinton, Bush? For twenty years 2 families controlled the WH? Seriously? Pffffft
But how can that be liz? We have the bestest Health Care system in the whole wide World!!!!
have some hopium!
Comrade Kristina wrote:
Run, run you fools, run for your lives!!!
At least you had some sort of answer MLM
lawyerliz wrote:
Don't go tying cinco down by requiring the same level of direct experience and documentation he is demanding of others now...
Just got off the phone with a DSCC shill. I let him blather on until he got to the "can we count on you for your usual $250 donation?"
I said, "Sure. Just take it out of the $700 billion you gave the banks and I'm already going to have to pay for."
Rude b@st@rd hung up on me.
Comrade Kristina wrote:
Howsabout Hillary quits, bucks the big O and runs in the primary and wins in November 2012?!
Comrade Kristina wrote:
That was the third or fourth time, I think.
energyecon wrote:
Citation needed...
At least until the middle of April!
MLM wrote:
Or the classic: "Fly, you fools!"
Comrade Kristina wrote:
Im going to eat dinner and a glass of malbec wine on Vashon Island.
Ok with me!!!
Cinco-X wrote:
Thanks for the ROFLMFAO!
Cinco-X wrote:
I'll talk to my police officer friends and see what we can dig up.
I gotta think Greenspan thought he would be dead by now.
sporkfed wrote:
I think he is.
energyecon wrote:
Anytime!
I'd bet the executive levels make fairly big $; can them and replace them with fresh MBA's at 1/5 the salary. Doubtful they could do worse.
Zombie Greenspan.
Charles Kiting wrote:
That is why all intelligent people have kids. So they can one day be political dynasties. Why do you think closet dweller Tom Cruise had kids? Top Gun 2016.
"If I can just die in time to avoid prosecution..."
broward wrote:
I can assure you that the statute of limitations has expired on anything you might possibly find.....
+1, liz
lawyerliz wrote:
Ditto that.
Anonymous Bosch wrote:
Can we call that the Madoff Gambit?
Off to work. I hate night shift. At least I only do it once a week. It is usually very slow and what customers do come in are "interesting". As in talk to themselves interesting.
scone wrote:
You two say that like it's a bad thing!?
broward wrote:
Make sure you don't cut yourself on the glass. Just swallow it whole.
government looting scandals tend to coincide with bubbles that are followed by depressions
Gordon Gekko had it right (5 pre-Enron financial scandals) « A Whole Lot of Nothing
DCC Graphs (big 3 years)
october, november, december, january, february, march, april Job Trends | Indeed.com
October, November, December, January, February, March, April Trends | Simply Hired (january job postings for the last one is very strange)
the economy be backsliding outside of Asia and South America
Cinco-X wrote:
More of a Lay down, don't you think?
Let him not be allowed to use the passive voice.
Comrade Kristina wrote:
So the day shift at the bar where you work is busy? PC must be worse off than we've been led to believe!
I qualify for German citizenship with a little effort and paperwork - do you guys think it would be advisable for me to pick that up? How do you all see germany faring over the next 20-30 years?
energyecon wrote:
You're on fire today
Everyday is Xmas for our lovable bankers k?
For the Bankster that has Everything - iTulip.com
Run, run you fools, run for your lives!!!
This country might be edging towards a nervous breakdown. Run where?
Why don't you TRAVEL over there while your money is still worth something
and check it out?
energycon beat me to it. :grin:
IF you believe he's really dead.
Hoopajoops LTD wrote:
Like Iceland.
How do you all see germany faring over the next 20-30 years?
You seem to have great faith in fortune telling.
Hoopajoops LTD wrote:
Didn't we have a discussion about this earlier today?
"Where do you see yourself 5 years from now?"
"And as you can see in retrospect, we couldn't really judge at the time was that the original subprime were securitized, they weren't subprime and therefore had very, very high rates of return on them but at that point in the ... United States rising you had an odd situation where the issue of foreclosures or ... was actually quite low extraordinary so-called margin of types or instruments." - AG
[post your favorites]
This will be the hearing where his head splits open and the tentacles fly out, right?
EvilHenryPaulson wrote:
dishonest money breeds dishonest people
That Barton Fink Feeling wrote:
John Carpenter's "The Banker"
broward wrote:
broward wrote:
We make dishonesty the old-fashioned way... We earn it.
John Carpenter's "The Banker"
The Squid
As I can see?
What I see is that I can't even figure out what lies he is trying to tell.
Yeah, I guess it was extraordinary that foreclosures were so low. . .
pavel.chichikov wrote:
They Squid
ac wrote:
It's really quite simple. Greenspan wanted to please Bush and the GOP more than he cared about the health of the nation's economy. He certainly visited the White House more after Bush was elected than ever before. See:
Business & Technology | Greenspan frequent visitor to White House these days | Seattle Times Newspaper
lawyerliz wrote:
Tanta nailed that one waaaaaaaaay back - with fog a mirror financing, and the easy credit tsunami, just about anyone in distress could sell and get out from under...
They Squid
I think I'm missing some subtle distinction.
pavel.chichikov wrote:
"I regret that I have but 3,000 viscous, sucking pods to give to my country!"
A couple of years ago, there was a guy on NPR, who talked the whole time in and
about a language that he called ummm, English prime. Same as English except no
verb to be and no passive voice. Avoiding those constructions forces you to be quite
precise. Kinda like not using the word normal. Or challenging.
lawyerliz wrote:
"Should", "would", "could" - red flags in your project plan.
Comrade Kristina wrote:
I think so.
lawyerliz wrote:
AKA Bad Hemingway!
International Imitation Hemingway Competition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Anyway, every time he tried to use the passive voice, he should get a very
s and blow bubbles at him every time he starts to get weaselly.
mild electric shock. Or perhaps someone should get one of those soap bubble
broward wrote:
You are a musician releasing protest/satirical mp3s? Cool. Nice way to avoid real jobs.
He certainly visited the White House more after Bush was elected than ever before.
Matthew 4:8-10 (New International Version - UK)
8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendour.
9 All this I will give you, he said, if you will bow down and worship me.
10 Jesus said to him, Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.'
lawyerliz wrote:
Yep, eliminating empty adjectives. Sometimes I watch the news on TV and listen for them, I'm used to doing it with print but it's difficult to catch with the spoken word.
yuccatree3 wrote:
Wasn't the groundwork for this fiasco laid during the Clinton Administration during the (at that time) longest expansion in post war history? What did GWB or the GOP have to do with that?
If you are gonna sell your soul, at least you should get the world.
Alas, people are willing to sell out for practically nothing.
lawyerliz wrote:
I love that idea! Doing that on the TV news would make it look like a Don Ho concert.
Cinco-X wrote:
Credit cycle. Groundwork was laid in 1939 or 1945, depending on your location.