WaPo on Unemployment Benefits
Submitted by
CalculatedRisk on Tue, 03/09/2010 - 10:17am (340 comments)
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"Is everything no longer temporary?"
yes
Unemployment benefits are just another way to help the banks, right?
Collecting 36% of old job pay is not that much less than new job pay equal to 50% of previous salary. Factor in the savings in child care and transportation, all the other costs of working and it is hardly a surprise to see reluctance to detach from GovTeat.
Smash the machines! Kill the robots! If you can't afford to pay an extra 10 cents for a made in the USA product than take yourself to West Virginia!
yagij wrote:
What passes for the Republican party is hard not to watch. Like when you were the 5th person in line at the supermarket and the Weekly World News (RIP) would entice you to pick it up and give it a perusal because the front page headline had a photo of a B-24 superimposed on a moon crater, with the headline "World War 2 Bomber Found On Moon".
"Another important benefit of unemployment insurance is that the benefits have helped keep many households in place. If there were no extended benefits, many of the 5+ million people now receiving extended benefits would be moving out of their homes or apartments, and doubling up with friends and relatives, or living in their cars or worse. Fewer households would increase the number of excess vacant housing units in the U.S. and exacerbate the housing crisis. "
Substitute "mortgage delinquencies" for "unemployment" and "extended benefits" in that paragraph and it would still be correct.
Unemployment is $10B a month. Mortgage delinquencies add another 9B a month to consumers' pockets.
Maybe high delinquency rates are no longer temporary, either. And just like generous unemployment benefits leads to higher baseline unemployment, generous treatment of mortgage delinquencies will lead to higher baseline mortgage delinquencies.
'The suggestion mentioned in the article that the unemployment rate is high because of unemployment benefits is off point'
Technically it's defensible. If you think that the great world-wide wage equalization should happen quickly, via massive (US) wage deflation and 'liquidation of labor' a la Mellon, then cutting off employment benefits would be one way to move that process along. I don't think that's a good idea, myself, but Krugman can't repeal the laws of supply and demand, and cutting off benefits would sure raise the supply of people willing to work for peanuts.
(
)
@ fudge_hend -- Rural Oregon isn't bad, it's just poor. They've had problems for a couple of decades, and then meth came in. If Oregonians would really come to grips with the problems, it could be turned around. But IMO they just don't want to face reality. A little like Greece in some ways.
When are those lazy bums going to get a job already???
why do you hate West Virginia?
"So I had Cheneys on both sides of the family and we don't even live in West Virginia," Cheney quipped.
Cheney Makes Incest Joke About West Virginians
All I know, is that the two people that I know who are on unemployment have told me that they will not take a job until the benefits run out.
YMMV.
... which just makes it the new welfare. Can't wait to hear about UE queens driving cadillacs.
2010 ECONOMIC STIMULUS PACKAGE:
Please note - if you are working, you do not qualify for this program.
Yes - the so called "squatter stimulus" program of letting people stay for a long period without paying their mortgage. A somewhat stealth program to pump money into the economy and keep households in place!
Has a similar impact as unemployment benefits. Some people are probably on both programs
best wishes
Nemo wrote:
The impermanence is contained.
@sm_landlord
do these two people believe that they are living in Europe ? Or worse, in France ?
the two people that I know who are on unemployment have told me that they will not take a job until the benefits run out.
It doesn't make economic sense sometimes to work if the pay will be anywhere close to what you can get from unemployment benefits.
sm_landlord wrote:
I know someone who is collecting. Her old employer called her up to offer part time work - earning less than she would get from unemployment. Anyone care to guess what she opted to do?
PS her old employer was an attorney who dabbled in real estate and basically lived off the fat of the land known as "daddy with deep pockets". Daddies pockets either got turned inside out or he simply got tired of supporting his profilgate offspring. Or both.
Do we really need all the crap we buy? No. I refuse to buy another iPod. You buy it, load songs, get it right, then the battery dies and there goes more money. Who the hell decided we all needed a 24/7 soundtrack?
Stop buying the crap and feeding the make it cheap and push it out monster. You want to spend $20 for slave labor shoes that last 3 months? Payless? What a joke.
This country didn't get screwed. It commited suicide, No jobs? Why? Because buying cheap crap was our right? We needed it? Everytime we went with, and voted for it with our money we cut ourselves. A nation of cutters!
FastNeutron wrote:
Their attitude is: "I paid for this, and I'm going to collect what I'm owed".
Not saying I agree.
Wildly OT.
For anyone in downtown NYC - wander over to the corner of Broad and Water (near the
's building) and check out Schnitzel and Things.
Schnitzel & Things $10 bucks for schnitzel and 2 sides. Tried it today and it was very, very good.
was the only thing missing.
On a related note:
Unwanted men, we need you to curb the welfare Amazons | Minette Marrin - Times Online
We. Need. Jobs.
sm_landlord wrote:
It's a rational decision if the jobs they're likely to get pay little more than unemployment (or involve some sort of dislocation). In which case the benefit of free time -- which some people actually do constructive things with -- outweighs the few extra bucks.
I guess the real question is, would they stay on UI if they could get a job with a doable commute that paid 70 percent of the one they lost? My prejudice would be, no. Especially if benes were rolled in.
There is some evidence that unemployment benefits discourage the unemployed to find work, even in deep recessions with high unemployment. Not saying that this applies to all or even most of the unemployed, but it likely applies to some portion of them. Unfortunately, it is difficult in practice to tell who really needs the benefits and who may be choosing to postpone employment, so I don't think this evidence is necessarily actionable. But for anyone to claim that generous unemployment benefits have no impact on the unemployment rate, even in tough economic times like this, is probably off base.
*Andrew Stettner, deputy director of the National Employment Law Center, says there's a good reason people are out of work for so long.
"The primary reason people are out of work so long is a lack of jobs," Stettner said.
*
Bob Dobbs wrote:
Deflation's a bitch on wheels, ain't she?
WaPo is on unemployment?
I wonder how many people are or will be surprised to find out that the UE benefits are taxable income.
I see, this is some kind of UE insurance moral hazard. Hoocoodanode!
Its_Science wrote:
It's Science: 1
Krugman & CR: 0
They should be in prison.
Fraud is still fraud, no matter who commits it or what their reasons.
But everybody wants something for nothing. That is the truism of our age, and the ultimate source of the current crisis. As well as the next one.
CalculatedRisk wrote:
I personally know people who are both working and collecting unemployment (especially among my pimp and drug dealer buddies).
I don't know if any of them are also collecting the squatter stimulus, but I know I would be.
Maury the Credit Responsibility Panda wrote:
Yeh. Especially the wages-falling-first part. And then GS's financial engineers find a new and better way to drive up the price of oil in a down market.
steelhead wrote:
Yeah. Just like mortgage loan forgiveness was taxable. Just like multibillion dollar squid profits are taxable. Face it. The only things taxable these days are hard work and honest behavior.
@ Its_Science
I guess that minimum wages are also a deterrent to hiring for businesses during these difficult times...
My favorite CA unemployment statistic:
UI Trust Fund Balance as of December 2009 $(6,216,210,472.73)
It's a good thing CA has a 6 billion budget surplus to pay it back to the feds.
Nemo wrote:
Nah. They're already removing themselves from competition. And they get less competitive as time goes on.
YouTube - Dire Straits - Money For Nothing
Another important benefit of unemployment insurance is that the benefits have helped keep many households in place.
Unemployment benefits have run out. Call it what it is now: welfare.
And of course, my beef is that those in non-U3 jobs (indpendent contractors, etc.) are not eligible for the govt. welfare that is keeping the U3-ers' households in place.
We have 2 tiers here. The govt. is helping U3-ers maintain their households. The govt. is not helping U6-ers and they are SOL.
(U3 and U6 terms used loosely, but you know what I mean.)
Anyway, inequality is the word of the day these days.
I say that after someone has received over 104 wks (2 yrs) of unemployment benefits, they should be reduced 25% from 105-125 wks, 50% from 126-150, and then cut after 150 wks. Otherwise, it's extend and pretend. Wages will need to be cut. Let's start dealing with it.
Rob Dawg wrote:
That only really applies to upper wage scale ex-employees - the closer you were to minimum wage originally the less likely the new job if they can be found at all will actually be a wage cut. I find it pretty awful that upper-middle income unemployed are able to suck the public tit indefinitely - I'm much less outraged when its low income workers - their UE take is a lot smaller and what little safety net they get is barely above pavement.
If there is a failure in this policy it was extending the safety net so high above the poverty line for an entitled few - brings back the Reagan line about safety nets & hammocks - and I wasn't a huge fan of Reagan but the point looks to be right on the money now.
Rob Dawg wrote:
But it only works that way if you were making less than about $30,000 a year. If you were solidly middle class or above, the UE benefits are capped at a ridiculously low rate. Here in DC, it's $359 a week (plus $25 for stimulus). For the many months I was unemployed, it was a decent help. Combined with my wife's income, it basically allowed us to avoid spending down our savings. But I certainly wasn't going to turn down work to stay on the couch, and neither would any of the other professionals I know who were displaced when the bottom fell out of the economy.
Bullsh*t. They are lying about actively seeking work in order to steal taxpayer money.
That their attitude is so commonplace makes it more disgusting, not less. It's contemptible.
FastNeutron wrote:
That's not really fair to the French, it's hard work giving out quotes for 10x the going rate and acting surprised when nobody signs the contract
Outsider wrote:
You mean, since 1750? That's when Cinco-X would date it.
Just like Hank Pauson's shares of GS were taxable when he became treasury secretary...
My favorite propogator of the welfare-creates-poverty meme is probably Malcolm X.
FastNeutron wrote:
Well the real problem is again that it's just another ponzi-finance scheme this time with government debt instead of consumer or Wall Street debt. I.E. we have consumption and housing being paid for via increasing debt and not organic buying power. It also has the potential side effect of creating a culture of dependence on a government that ultimately funds itself by taxing these very dependents. Maybe people will use their unemployment benefits to pay for the taxes needed to pay for these unemployment benefits.
I don't know why but it sounds to me like that has "FAIL" written all over it.
FastNeutron wrote:
If he ran today he'd still carry W Va.
Mike in Long Island wrote:
These sorts of things have a way of coming back around to bite you. She most likely blew a potential full time job, a good referral, and probably added a gap to her resume.
When they post the job, 100 people will apply and somebody smarter and harder working will get the job. Win win.
greenchutes wrote:
He was just parroting that whitey massa Daniel Patrick Moynihan.
Knoxville has 2,000 census jobs available | tennessean.com | The Tennessean
A Random Look at RMBS And The Economy - The Market Ticker
dryfly wrote:
If you were making $75,000 a year and got laid off, your lifestyle (mortgage/rent, car payments, insurance, etc.) won't be supported on $1300 a month of unemployment. These people are desperately looking for work, it's just not there.
Nemo wrote:
Getting upset about the small portion of UE recipients abusing the 10BB in UE expense seems odd in the face ot 10TT of loans and guarantees going to the banks.
Unemployment is tough, but at least Bernanke didn't allow people to impoverish themselves with too much debt during the housing boom.
Rob Dawg wrote:
So PK "was" right before he was wrong!
I knew WaPo was the
. 
good idea, but think your time line is way to long. There are other carrot and stick incentives that would work just as well.
Why not pay people more money on their unemployment check to take a part time or really low paying job? Currently it punishes people who do so, why not actually encourage work?
Not to mention that the recent MBS backdoor binge of just the past few months by our unelected and supremely opaque viceroys at the NYFRB could pay for ten years of these benefits at this rate.
js esq. wrote:
Even in a bubble area, UI on a good salary will just about make your rent in many areas, and that's not nothing. If you own and have a mortgage, it'll almost make your 15+ YO mortgage on a modest house, or your >5 YO mortgage with the negAm andthe low payment for the first five years. Of course when your mortgage recasts (learned my lesson on that one), you're SOL.
Unsustainable ponzi scheme supported by government debt? Right!
And if you like things like food and electric power, that could also be problematic.
Cinco-X wrote:
JustOneMinute: The Disingenuous Paul Krugman
sam.2 wrote:
Did he have any opinions on why water is wet?
dryfly wrote:
Mrs Dawg cannot collect UE. Her job classification is in such demand the State assumes you are not looking and thus not eligible. Does that mean she doesn't have to pay? Hell no. That makes UE Insurance something other than insurance.
Cinco-X wrote:
Exactly what I was saying above - the stimulus from mortgage delinquencies is astounding. It easily approaches unemployment benefits.
However, unemployment benefits are accounted for in the system via govt debts.
The mortgage delinquency benefit is not fully accounted for, as someone (bank, investor, GSE) is assuming 50% of those delinquencies will eventually catch up and become current.
Blackhalo,
I agree. The degree of the amount of money mis-allocated to non-productive endeavors is the problem. And note, if the middle-class is shrinking in time to deflation than it's game over. That kind of vicious cycle where taxes need to be levied against a shrinking population but the shrinking population has to be buffered by gov. stimulus which can only be supported by foreign borrowing...it ends. But we'll keep mainlining that debt until it kills us.
Angry Saver wrote:
Good thing too he didn't destroy the dollar and drive up commodities prices, it would really be tough if gas was $3 a gallon now.
Jeebus, next up is welfare moms driving cadilacs BS.
There are no jobs! Cut UE and watch the problems. You want to go before your god and explain why you starved kids when it didn't need to be?
Trust me, I get upset about both.
But this not about dollars. It's about values, and what it means to be a decent human being.
Taking unemployment while lying about looking for work is just plain fraud. Theft is still theft regardless of the victim.
These folks can rationalize their actions all they want, but they are just common criminals.
Everybody wants something for nothing.
greenchutes wrote:
All I'm saying is, UI at least reduces the rate of bleeding by subsidizing the cost of a place to live. If you've got not reserve and no credit, you're out of luck.
We're all florida condo HOAs now.
Rob Dawg wrote:
That's one of the primary disconnects, I think.
Bob Dobbs wrote:
No, it won't. Granted, it varies by state law, but in DC (where I live and collected), regardless of your income, the UI was capped at $359 per week ($384 including stimulus bump). I made over $160,000 before I was laid off, and that's what I received ($329 per wekk after taxes were taken out). That won't cover rent in any middle-class area of the DC metro. A 2 bedroom in Rockville is $1800+.
JP wrote:
what competition?
it's all run by gangs now.
It's a matter of gang-membership, not skill.
sheesh.
js esq. wrote:
I think it really depends on the state - caps vary some are more generous for the previously upper-income now unemployed.
@tncubsfan
Who wants to live in Knoxville?
(Serious question, I have no idea what's this town look like).
True, though one needs perspective, a tiny, crappy 3br/1ba in santa cruz on a major road still rents for 2K+. Not everywhere is quite so pricey, or has a 10-1 SFR price/income metric.
dryfly wrote:
Yes, it is state law. I would have LOVED for a higher cap here.
Savings gluts sure are weird. One might be tempted to think that the huge and overwhelming global savings glut would allow people to be able to afford their homes. Of course if you thought that, you'd be wrong. Dead wrong.
Excess "savings" simply means that people can "afford" to be further impoverished with debt.
We are SO lucky to have a genius like Bernanke at the helm. Why, if we didn't make people pay twice as much for a home as they could afford during the housing bubble, our eCONomy would really be in trouble.
Repeal the Thirteenth Amendment and our problems will be solved.
If there were no extended benefits, many...would be moving out of their homes or apartments, and doubling up with friends and relatives
So what? That's the way it was done before we became a no pain, bailout nation. If a person is no longer able to meet their obligations then the government i.e. Taxpayer should pay?
Fewer households would increase the number of excess vacant housing units
This is inferring that nobody would buy them, bull puckey. Instead we have banks sitting on homes with bubble inflated prices and stuck with mortgages waiting for a return to 2007 lala fantasyland.
Israel, Syria announce nuclear energy ambitions - Yahoo! News
Bob Dobbs wrote:
Bob, today you don't even need UI to pay for housing. Because if you have a mortgage, you don't need to pay anymore.
Peggy Joseph was right.
YouTube - Obama Is Going To Pay For My Gas And Mortgage!!!
I love the fraud argument. Who cares if 3 out of 100 people are working the system. You want efficeny? You want lean and mean? The same mindset is turning us into a 3rd world country.
Bernanke's not at the helm any more than the drunk idiot captain of the Valdez was on the BOD at XOM.
dryfly wrote:
My brother, WA state, is getting $500 / week to replace a $150K job.
Nemo,
Our eCONomy is founded on theft (inflation) and deception. We all have to deal with it. Perhaps many have CONcluded that the only way to survive in an immoral system is to play by the unwritten "rules".
Rob Dawg wrote:
I confess that's the first I've heard of this, and I'm amazed that UE admins can determine who is "in demand".
What is her job classification that earned this status?
JP wrote:
Physical Therapist.
Are those fed or olympia benis, or a combo?
Since we do not seem to have a industrial policy. Or a plan for new jobs. Or anything coming online to create jobs. Then it is pay the people or reap the whirlwind.
what about all the people who don't get unemp now (contractors, etc.)? aren't we already starving the kids? i don't mind paying out for 2 yrs, after that scale back, then cut off. "the kids are alright"
js esq. wrote:
I edited my original post to say "some." Checked California's cap, and it's $450/week, which would cover $1800 rent. (Edit -- oh yeah, before taxes.)
digalert wrote:
I don't even agree with CR there. With or without extended benefits, many are NOT moving out of their homes, they are just not paying their mortgage and staying.
As has been pointed out here before, "homeowners" are in better shape during this recession than renters in that they can live payment-free indefinitely.
js esq. wrote:
I'm well aware its not out there - certainly not at the previous $75/yr level and $15K a year won't keep you at that lifestyle.
But if the state has a compelling reason to provide UE benefits at all its to buy some time for the recipient to either find a new job in same location or smooth the transition to something else [lower level of income or a move to a new location]. It was never intended to be permanent 'welfare'. If so then the the only justification for THAT would be to keep people from starving and off the street - not to maintain middle class existence forever. We don't have the resources to do that - no society does UNLESS the number of recipients is very small.
This is a discussion that has to happen - what is the role of the benefits, how long, how much and to whom should it go and of course how can it be funded [sustainably]. Aren't hearing much of that are we?
greenchutes wrote:
Pretty sure he's still on State, although he's getting COBRA via Federal.
Who wants to live in Knoxville?
People who like Knox knox jokes?
ghostfaceinvestah wrote:
I don't think I would say indefinitely, but for an extended period of time. Cash flow will force the issue some day.
Bob Dobbs wrote:
Gotcha, thanks. So I guess I just picked the wrong place to get laid off.
Charles Kiting wrote:
I do not think that word means what you think it means...
Is that taxable income ?
Pretty generous of a state without an income tax to give a guy the average post-tax income despite him recently making a big multiple of it recently! That really doesn't sound sustainable - outside King County, WA is not a wealthy state.
CR,
?
Favorable review of the stress tests. Praise for the Fed. Now nice things about Krugman.
Get out of the bankerdome. Take a nice hike. Waterfalls in the Santa Monicas are awesome.
Who wants to live in Knoxville?
People who like Knox knox jokes?
nova wrote:
The most recent half-hourly report at briefing.com mentioned one single small-cap stock as the "primary leader" of today's market move--a manufacturer of ballistic-protected vehicles.
Sounds like a plan.
RayOnTheFarm wrote:
That's a good question.
Not by the State... yet.
I kinda wonder if we would see a shift in the nums if we exchanged unemployment benefits for humantarian work in Iraq. The plus of course is that these folks would gain additional work-life skills and, of course, international cultural exchange experience.
Angry Saver --
Like I said, you can rationalize it all you want. It is still theft and they are still crooks. They are not stealing from "the system" (whatever that would mean), but from everyone who pays taxes.
You are not helping to fix a corrupt system by becoming corrupt. "This above all: To thine own self be true"
(Incidentally, I am not arguing against unemployment benefits. I am arguing against fraud. Choose your principles and stick by them.)
greenchutes wrote:
That's why I mentioned it.
It's probably one of the most generous situations in the US, but even that's not sustainable long-term for him.
He's probably going to take a 50% paycut, overall.
The biggest welfare queens are Wall St. bankers. Rather than waiting in the unemployment line, they get their welfare through the back door via AIG, FRE, FNM, GM, GMAC, zero interest rates, FDIC guarantees, etc.
Wall St. welfare dwarfs unemployment benefits which are paid for by payroll taxes. The stealth theft of inflation is the biggest gift to Wall St.
It should be noted that if it is a policy goal to strip the upper income earners of any accumulated asset or savings wealth then an extended period of unemployment with capped benefits is an effective technique.
dryfly wrote:
Thanks for the succinct description of the issue. Of course IMO the political class is looking at UI mainly for its shortest-term function: maintaining stability. Stability for them.
They don't dare dump millions off unemployment, because there are insufficient jobs and the misery and political blowback would be extreme. And they apparently don't dare create enough jobs or stimulate the economy in a meaningful way, because ideology and "owned" areas of the economy don't allow it.
But eventually there'll be a clear choice between things as they are and social instability (PTB mainly don't give a damn about sufffering, just instability). Things that can't go on forever, don't.
Food stamps are a separate program for a reason. No one should starve. And I actually think that a guaranteed minimum income for everone is a good idea (via sliding negative income tax a la Milton Friedman). But extending unemployment benefits indefinitely is a crap way to go about this; why should someone get more money than someone else (unemployed) because over a year ago they had a better job? Better to abandon the pretense that this isn't welfare and instead implement a workable welfare system...
Nemo wrote:
I agree.
UE people btw, are looking for work; every job fair gets enormous responses. Even part time jobs w/o benefits get 10 applications for each opening. Jonathan on this board commented on how many applications his wife was receiving for a secretarial position in Texas.
We already shipped the bottom quarter of our society over there and had them run a few institutional things via the natl guard. How'd that work out?
Angry Saver wrote:
Count me in on that.
Or play outside the system. As soon as Bernanke started up the printing press last year, I went all-out of the USD and all-in on commodities, mostly oil.
March 18th, 2009, a day that will live in infamy.
nova,
That is the raw point: no concerted policy moving forward for any segment of the economy including industrial. This is underpants gnome economics involving points 1, 2 and 3. 1) Talk about all the goals we need to achieve, 2) ? /shrug/ 3) profit.
broward wrote:
I took a 50% cut to rejoin the workforce. Which was fine; we live way below our means and don't own a home.
Barley wrote:
And don't forget about acquiring soon to be valuable urban guerilla training.
Hey, I been thru Knoxville on the way to the Big Beautiful Smokey Mts several times and its beautiful, as is most of Tn.
I was raised in Knoxville, TN. Haven't been back in over 10 years now. It is like a lot of southern cities now. Its the gateway to the Great Smoky Mtn National Park, tourism is huge but there is something of an industrial base too. TVA is a large employer. Chattanooga is also nice albeit smaller. Knoxville has a large college campus, big, big football-sports base as is broadly the case in the South.
I associated the state with the lady vols - that's their only truly dominant program.
SNAFU wrote:
Competition for Federal jobs is severe right now. 500+ applications for attorney positions in the norm. Even specialized technical positions are drawing a few hundred, with several dozen who fit the description exactly and have two decades of experience (for GS-13 positions paying $86k).
I am with Krugman, CR and Nova. Now is not the time to cut UE benefits. After the trillions which went to backstop the bankers we can afford a few billions in UE benefits; despite the slight moral hazard.
Nanoo-Nanoo wrote:
I just loaned them $10k. They seem to do a good job of power production.
Speaking of un-controlled exacerbation related to unemployment....
Asia Times Online :: Asian news and current affairs
The Fed under Greenspan and Bernanke violated the basic rules of both monetarism (money supply management) and Keynesianism (demand management). Fed monetary policy created false prosperity with excess money supply to fund debt manipulation and simultaneously to support income disparity as a source for capital formation to exacerbate overcapacity amid demand weakness.
If UE stays above 8% for more than the next 5 years than there will be a welfare program or there will be ugliness on a scale that this country has not seen in generations. There is no choice.
ppk wrote:
moral hazard is so 1990's
shuush! Don't tell that to the football fanatics.
Its pretty but it was nicer when it was smaller and not so highly developed for tourism. The Smoky Mtns flora and fauna haven't fared well from the hoards, hoards, hoards and more hoards that visit Sevierville, Pigeon Forge and Gatlinburg and never even get into the mtns. themselves. Its a giant shopping and theme park now. I cried the last time I was there.
MaryAnn, Nanoo-Nanoo
Thank you for backing me up!
Yeah, a pretty diversified economy around here. Univ. of TN, TVA, Oak Ridge National Laboratory, manufacturing. Recession has been better here than in many places I guess. Still there are a lot of unemployed people that should be grabbing up a census job that pays $13/hr!
Also, maybe after 26 weeks or so, UE people should have to volunteer or do SOMETHING for like 10 to 15 hours per week. What this is I don't know. Hey, how about these UE folks jobs become census takers to earn UE benefits
ppk said "I am with Krugman, CR and Nova."
Gee thanks. I feel like I just got my head on a virtual Mt. Rushmore.
dryfly wrote:
Dryfly, you make an excellent point, and I'm not sure I have a sufficient answer. It would be nice to say "we live in extraordinary times, and this type of long-term unemployment isn't the norm" - but I think this is the new norm, and we have to figure out where our society moves from here.
Of course, the same discussion should also be taking place for Social Security and Medicare. If you retire with a golden parachute, shouldn't you forgo these entitlements, even though you paid in? It seems to me there could be a lot of savings if benefits were means tested, and we excluded those who don't need the payments. But, this is getting quite OT.
RayOnTheFarm wrote:
Usually it is - at least at the federal level.
True. Amoral hazard is 2010.
nova wrote:
History rhyming, nova - the self-righteous know only bums and layabouts ever have such problems - enlightenment for most only comes when their own ox is gored...just like it did in GD1.
Perhaps many have CONcluded that the only way to survive in an immoral system is to play by the unwritten "rules".
In Amerika we call it hitting the 'trifekta'
suck out of every drop of MEW-------> live mortgage free--------> draw UE.
Nemo,
You are not helping to fix a corrupt system by becoming corrupt.
I didn't break the system or benefit from the corruption. Just the opposite.
Since the beginning, I've said the greatest and most lasting damage will come from the loss of faith in the system. Hard work and productive endeavors have become errands for fools. It's kind of like being one of the last soldiers to die fighting for the greater glory of Rome.....or should I say Goldman?
Speaking of amorality
CBO's Elmendorf: The U.S. is Entering Unfamiliar Territory
According to the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) President Obama's proposed budget will add more than $9.7 Trillion to the national debt by 2020.
"It will be larger over the next decade than it's been in half a century," Elmendorf continued, "The choice is not whether to change course from current policy but how quickly and in what way."
Diversified? Government,Government and Government for your first 3 employers.
black dog wrote:
---->get mortgage mod ---> redefault -------> wait for principal reduction
Dryfly, you make an excellent point, and I'm not sure I have a sufficient answer. It would be nice to say "we live in extraordinary times, and this type of long-term unemployment isn't the norm" - but I think this is the new norm, and we have to figure out where our society moves from here.
And you made a good point js esq.
So can a nation with a significant minority of "Starve you lazy bums because Glod says so. If Glod loved you then you wouldn't be poor" and another minority of "Its not faiirrrrrr!" actually do something?
No. This country addresses lack of work, especially for minorities, by building prisons and enacting laws that target them.
energyecon wrote:
Eventually the knackers will come for everyone's oxen -- except those that the knackers own. And enlightenment will come the hard way. It always comes the hard way -- damned Puritan culture...
CaptainMorgan wrote:
I should add some more color - re: the employer. The employer is broke - both personally and at the corporate (or LLC) level. House payments way past 90 days delinquent among other things. This company won't be hiring anyone fulltime. As such, the person I know is better off collecting UE vs. a check that will likely bounce for part time work that would pay less than UE.
nova wrote:
Minorities aren't willing to attack The Man in suicide missions.
As we've recently seen, the White Man can!
Mr Slippery, you forgot the 3X90 day mortgage forebearance plan in there.
Risk of “lost decade” for the global economy warns ECB economist
Globally synchronised recessions are often long and deep and are generally followed by weak recoveries.
He warned that the risk of global stagflation should not be underestimated.
what shocks me the most about the whole UE discussion is the complete lack of "work" to get the $...it really is welfare.
As a humbled commercial RE professional I readily admit recently spending time on the dole but I worked my tail off to land something else. It took 10 months, a masters (was already in progress when I was let go), and a pay cut but I couldn't wait to get off the couch! UE SUCKED. I feel like 6 months is enough of a hand out without some strings attached. 6 Months free to help someone find the "perfect job" and then start requiring some sort of volunteer work / (thinking 10 hrs a week ANYTHING) per each additional extension...it gives you something to focus on, doesn't eliminate time to continue a job search, and provides your fellow citizens some sort of benefit from the payment. Eventually after enough extensions, you are working full time for your UE and that job you passed on in the first 6 months looks pretty good.
nova wrote:
In CA, if we released all non-violent criminals and paid them max UE benefits instead, it will save the state ~20K/per inmate. Assuming $40K/inmate/per year cost. Billions all told, I would think.
Bob Dobbs wrote:
Puritan culture, at least in the early days, included the expectation and habit of the examination of one's own conscience. That's not much in evidence nowadays if you ask me....
ppk wrote:
Yeah, there's a lack of jobs. The 300+ resumes for a secretary/receptionist at my wife's company kinda highlights that in the doomiest possible way.
And as a point of closure on that, the 300+ largely ended up wasting their effort for now, since the job has been covered by extending a part-timer and doubling up duties.
Send UE-abusers to prison? Have you seen how much that costs?
No way, let them continue getting unemployment.
By the way, my brother is currently collecting but he is in a state (Indiana) which cuts off UE if they deem you to have passed up an "equivalent" job regardless of the pay differential. He is looking for a new job but not too hard - he is a full-time student after all.
He also looked into a Census job but nobody can quite figure out who they are looking for. There is an embarrassingly-simple test to see if you are qualified but they definitely are not taking everyone that passes, despite appearing to be desperate for workers.
Here in Chicago the pay is $18.35 an hour and there are lines out the door every time they run a qualifications test. Yet nobody seems to get hired.
Households in the United States, and also in a number of other countries, are unlikely to return to their past spending patterns.
Au contraire: They will return to spending patterns from quite long ago.
Hedge Fund Manager Survey:Greek Debt Crisis Spreading In Europe - WSJ.com
TrimTabs Investment Research and BarclayHedge polled 61 hedge-fund managers overseeing almost $7 billion in mid-February, and found that nearly 60% expect the Greek debt crisis to spread to other European countries. However, those managers didn't think it endangers the unity of the euro zone.
We're forgetting the whole idea that UE is to SUPPLEMENT one's rainy day fund...ARRGGG there I go expecting others to be responsible...my apologies.
Jonathan wrote:
Naahhh...there's plenty of jobs out there--those 300+ resumes were just from people seeking the perfect job.
Those drawing ue should be required to volunteer in some form or fashion. When you give people money they have not worked for it makes us weak, but what do I know, my government has made me paranoid and schizo.
and there are lines out the door every time they run a qualifications test
Keeps people busy. No time for looting or writing your congress critter about looting.
energyecon wrote:
I don't think you know whom you are quoting.
Banks Unfairly Avoid Debt Reporting Rule, Dealers Say (Update1) - BusinessWeek
On the very day Trace was expanded, a number of financial institutions began taking steps to ensure that agency trades were handled by entities which, because of their status as banks, were beyond the reach of Finra’s rules,” the regional dealer group said in its statement.
*I do not think that word means what you think it means...
I don't think you know whom you are quoting. *
GWB
Chicago Dude wrote:
They don't need the door-to-door folks until they've found out which doors need knocking on. For now they're just waiting for the forms to come back. I didn't expect any serious hiring for at least another month.
Or am I confused about the process?
waterboy wrote:
Here in California the EDD has a "job club" program in which you report for "work," polish your skills, work in teams with others for the benefit of your group, etc. I don't know if it's mandatory, but I wouldn't mind if it was. It keeps people from sinking into a funk and giving up. Sat in on a few back in the '70s when they were knew and the feds were funding them -- good stuff.
But all the job clubs in the world won't help everybody if there are more people than jobs. Making somebody "earn" their unemployment -- which they may have paid taxes into for 20 years -- would be unpopular and politically impossible. I mean if I paid into UI for 20 years and was then told I had to start sweeping streets after six months, I'd be on the phone to my assemblyman so fast it'd make your head spin.
In California, public service for individuals is usually the purview of traffic violators who can't pay their fines. To put UI people in the boat would be sending a message that many among them would read very clearly.
Yalt,
The future census takers have to complete a class on how to take the census. They also need to sign their payroll stuff.
Holy crap, I just got an offer from the local county counsel's office. They'll be handing me a few probate cases that are "ready to close" and a land use case. I neglected to put on my resume that I don't know what the fuck I am doing!
this is what moves the casino these days. And Bernanke claims there is no asset misallocation.
Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae (FNM, FRE) Surging On Gov Short Restriction Speculation | Benzinga.com
Hoopajoops LTD wrote:
Relax, no one else does either.....
Bob Dobbs wrote:
Aye, there's the rub. The UI safety net is there to help people get from one job to the next, but what if there is no next?
Hoops,
I have got by on "Let me get back to you on that" for years. Just learn what you need.
I mean if I paid into UI for 20 years and was then told I had to start sweeping streets after six months, I'd be on the phone to my assemblyman so fast it'd make your head spin.
Feel free to not sweep. We're all empowered to make our own decision.
I know it's politically impossible but shouldn't someone at least be tossing it out there for discussion?
Ever done the math on "paying in" for 20 years? I bet it's pretty close to 6 months of full UE...
My fright over taking these cases reminds me of an employment review I had at my old firm.
BOSS: "What would you say is the one area where you could stand to show the best improvement over the coming period? What is your one weakness?"
ME: "Incompetence."
True story! Against all the evidence, despite the top grades, the top accolades, the top firm job, having made a fucking ton of money on the stock market, I still harbor the unshakable conviction that I am an incompetent fraud, that it just takes one assignment for people to discover this about me, and it is utterly debilitating.
Mark Twain said, "Sacred cows make the best hamburger."
Bob Dobbs wrote:
Is it that or is it that they don't want them going into the existing welfare system for other reasons?
Hoops - you in CA? Is this a permanent opportunity, or just getting some work thrown your way?
Energy Dept. still sees $3-plus gasoline coming - Yahoo! Finance
Jonathan wrote:
I've applied for approx 300 jobs over the past 16 months, and turned down three offers that had various issues.
I'm just tired of being jerked around by empty promises and lies.
Lately I've cut back on applications by half, it's clear that many of these jobs are never filled anyway.
I saw three reposted this morning that had sent reject letters.
Doc would rather see a nice plate of fried
Odd-why would there be heavy shorting of stocks that are wobbling around a dollar? Even if you were absolutely certain the common was eventually going to zero it seems a risky and expensive bet.
The two engineers I know that took the test were told hiring and training would start in March. I did not ask how long the training took, but they mentioned it was paid.
I know one was trying to get a supervisor position based on previous experience.
Hoopajoops LTD wrote:
That is why they call it practicing the law- don't worry you will get most of it right.
Probate is the future, and estates. A lot of boomers are going to be wormfood over the next three decades.
Someday this war's gonna end...
Hoop, You gonna be good, they don't know what they are doing either.
Hoops wrote:
The only cure for that is to perform all tasks to a level where you gain personal satisfaction from a job well done.
A good software engineer can point to stuff he's done lazily, or stuff that's so good you could put it in a textbook.
Hoopajoops LTD wrote:
You know you're a cliche right?
Chicago Dude wrote:
exactly.
I've been told by recruiters that close to 1000 IT positions are listed in Seattle (I suppose 900 of them at Amazon) but many are never filled. Now, honestly, about 900 of them have no appeal for me, I'll admit that. But damn, why isn't anyone else getting hired into them?
tncubsfan wrote:
broward wrote:
A lot of companies are running on rims.
ppk wrote:
I don't know about CR and Nova, but your second sentence contradicts Krugman. Krugman was AGAINST extending UE benefits with TARP money.
hoops,
You're an attorney. Blame the support staff.
No time for looting or writing your congress critter about looting.
Won't matter. Even if did start to happen on a large scale I can see Summers sliding into Rummy's role.
Rumsfeld: Let me say one other thing. The images you are seeing on television you are seeing over, and over, and over, and it's the same picture of some person walking out of some building with a vase, and you see it 20 times, and you think, "My goodness, were there that many vases?" (Laughter.) "Is it possible that there were that many vases in the whole country?"
broward wrote:
Did any mention your lack of ability to walk on water? Some employers want perfect candidates, and it takes a while of nothing getting done to realize they do not exist.
There are certain positions that are required by law to post jobs externally, even if they know they will get filled internally. Posting lots of job postings is a good way to gauge competitor pay, so they can save money when they actually do start hiring.
hoops,
Look at the bright side. You can hire an intern now. That might be fun.
waterboy wrote:
Feel free yourself
...
Somebody upstream -- energyecon? -- mentioned that many who are proud of their initiative may find themselves classed as "bums" in the eyes of society when their oxen are gored. It was the realization that you could be a righteous person, do everything right, and still be blamed by society for your own misfortune that made the New Deal program politically possible.
Maybe we should go ahead with your idea, and put the unemployed to work alongside the reckless drivers and disorderly-conduct guys paying their debt to society. So they know what society thinks of them.
“I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather... Not screaming and yelling like the passengers in his car .”
Wil Shriner
nova wrote:
There is so much good career advice on this blog. I love you guys.
Thanks for the info. I am not directly involved in my brother's work search so I don't have all the details. He probably didn't even ask about that part.
And the local lines I was referring to were me walking by and other conversations I hear on the streets. A lot of the testing has occurred in my neighborhood. There's some short-term office space that is ideal for this type of thing - for example, Obama's main campaign call center was across the street from me. That space was ready for the next tenant less than a week after the election.
nice plate of fried
YouTube - Shrimp... According To Bubba Gump
Can't the govt. just hire them all ?
~splat
These companies could just be covering their legal for HB Visa's. Brother brought farm workers from Mexico on Visa's and you must advertise locally for so many weeks in order to bring workers in from out of country.
Bob Dobbs wrote:
I know a guy who when he got laid off cleaned out his pantry and took a box full to the food bank.
Nothing wrong with work and paying it forward. Does it really matter what they do, as long as they keep moving? The get in a
and quit moving seems to be the biggest hurdle for many.
Hoops,
I'm surprised you're not down here in Hollywood. You sound like most successful actors.
Broward, read up on what it's like to work IT at Amazon. It is entirely possible that nobody is applying for those positions.
Here in SoCal gas at the pump rarely goes below $3.
Charles Kiting wrote:
I don't know what the other reasons might be, so I can't say. My guess is that at this point the politicos are reacting, not acting, and extending UI is the easiest thing to do that doesn't commit them to anything permanent. That's just the kind of behavior pattern I from my take on politicians locally and nationally.
Bob Dobbs wrote:
Why would I do that?
tncubsfan wrote:
If we implement cap & trade( aka. Con & Tax ) expect that to go significantly higher as refiners get dinged and
transforms into a mega- 
to arrange, facilitate and ultimately game market.
~splat
Bob Dobbs wrote:
Recruiter = "So why haven't you worked for the past 16 months?"
Me - "I didn't got offered a job I wanted???"
they just really don't know how to deal with that.
Chicago Dude wrote:
You are not an employee you are cannon fodder....
~splat
Cinco-X wrote:
You mean, since 1750? That's when Cinco-X would date it.
Why would I do that? Puzzled Tongue
That's the point at which the early-come Brit and Dutch elites had tied up all the good land so that later Scotch-Irish immigrants had to live off on the margins and take the scraps. Or so I remember from a
of yours some time back.
Chicago Dude wrote:
My brother was at Amazon for 11 years.
I have a pretty good idea.
TJ and The Bear wrote:
Options:
I'm forever amazed at folks can remain unemployed for years waiting for a job that suits their skills. I could never afford to do that-
Hopefully he had a boatload of options...got in pretty early.
On-Topic/
Union again raises IBM layoff estimate - Triangle Business Journal:
The Alliance@IBM says that pink slips were handed to 2,544 employees across 22 divisions. That’s up from the 1,734 job cuts the group reported on Tuesday.
js esq. wrote:
I thought hoops was independently wealthy
Now I thought this was cool.
Our neighbors kid finishes University soon and has not found work, yet. Being marketing savy, he came up w/ a cool way to get his name out (and no, I'm not plugging the company!):
Promotional USB Flash Drives and Custom Memory Sticks
Jonathan wrote:
Many companies are on blocks - pretending to run on their rims...
I'm thinking it would be better to follow the model of building special cities to house the unemployed. Special areas where they can live together and be happy with people of their own 'type'. It will save both the productive and administrative classes from being forced to deal with the unproductive segment of society. Perhaps some kind of large floating structure off Manhattan island.
~splat
Cinco, in IT if you do number 1, it's really hard to do number 2.
Interesting post on how to get good programming jobs:
Giles Bowkett: Programmers: What To Do If You Get Fired
Backed up by the link, and for those who are not software people, many programmers get hired who CAN NOT program. Even a little bit.
I had programmers where I just assigned them to cut and paste code across non-critical parts of the system, rather than have them exposed as being complete frauds, which can be embarrassing in the consulting biz.
I quit when I got fed up of training people with zero aptitude for computers, let alone software.
The sickening part was that these people are billable, just for existing.
Bob Dobbs wrote:
Ah! Thanks for reminding me! F^king brits and Douches! They say your memory is the second thing to go-
splat wrote:
Work will set them free -
Uncle Ar wrote:
Doc Holiday wrote:
Pretty much a lock, isn't it? Everyone is printing...
Cinco-X wrote:
that works when you're young.
noone under 40 wants to hire someone like me because I represent a challenge to their authority and career path.
took me awhile to figure that out.
splat wrote:
CaptainMorgan wrote:
I saw three reposted this morning that had sent reject letters.
The way the game gets played at my company, an unfilled position means someone isn't spending money out of their budget so the department head gets a bonus for spending under budget. Then when it comes time for downsizing, the unfilled jobs are downsized and any department that didn't play that game actually has to lose productive people. Which means most of these positions are never intended to be filled unless a candidate with 100% perfect credentials comes along willing to work for $20 an hour. I've been here so long I know when downsizing is nine months away because one guy actively volunteers employees to other departments which those suckers gladly take thinking they are getting more power while the guy who volunteered the positions merely moved people into another department's unfilled positions - they are people he wants someone else to have to break the bad news to come downsizing time AND it keeps other departments from making the budgets so it keeps them from getting bonuses; when bonuses are paid out he looks like a genius and the other departments look like screwups because they didn't get bonuses.
Uncle Ar wrote:
That's why he's probably facing a 50% paycut.
Industrial Laser Solutions Wire News Display - OptoIQ your destination for the latest information on optical technologies and applications
Employers took 1,521 mass layoff actions in January, which resulted in 182,261 workers losing their jobs, said the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
Each mass layoff involved at least 50 people from a single employer - and both layoff events and initial claims increased during January, after four consecutive decreases.
Krugman might want to address what this economist had to say about unemployment benefits
splat,
I am thinking Liberty Villages. You can get a GED, online courses, day care, and food. Housing in temperate areas will be tents or reconfigured shipping containers.
You will be required to attend vocational training , school, or be employed. ID's will be issued. It will be enclosed for you and your childrens safety. Urine testing and DNA swabs will be required. Of course you will be screened for a criminal background.
Cinco-X wrote:
Didn't work too well in '32 for most people. The top competitors, sure; but that's not enough. I think we're approaching the point where good old American hard work and values just won't do it for a lot of people, unless they're superhuman and lucky. Some might say we're already there. I mean, if everybody who's out of work did exactly what you say, do you think the UI rate would go to zero? Or even five percent? Society is about those who lose as well as those who win. Unfortunately, those who win usually say that the losers "just didn't try enough." justifying the continuing existence of the system they're now benefitting from.
broward wrote:
C'mon! They hire Walmart greeters well into their 70s....
broward, I'm been there in banking and its awful, awful. Would not wish that on anyone.
wow. thanks for that.
So many jobs really aren't real jobs but pre-emptive padding for layoffs.
Holy cow, that explains a lot.
broward wrote:
Depends on the organization - really does - some firms basically ONLY want over 40s. I'e worked with more than a few - have to have grey hair to be considered else you are assumed to not have the experience. But I will agree - it is basically NOT the case in IT.
what's new?
"A national emergency productive of widespread unemployment and disorganization of industry ... is hereby declared to exist."
So began what might easily have been mistaken for a dictator's proclamation upon first seizing national power. Actually it was a measure about to become law of the land. The striking words prefaced the National Industrial Recovery Bill which President Roosevelt sent to Congress last week for immediate enactment.
"Big Business," in the form of powerful trade associations, was to be pampered back to economic health while the little independent manufacturer, for whose protection the Anti-Trust laws were first passed, was to become an outlaw.
For this purpose $3,300,000,000 was to be raised by Federal bond issues which, with other "extraordinary" budget expenditures, would probably put the Public Debt to an all-time high. The proceeds were to be lent to states, counties and municipalities on a 30-to-70 basis. It was estimated that each billion dollars would put 1,000,000 men to work constructing bridges, laying roads, clearing slums, eliminating grade crossings, building war ships. Private industry was to get no cash from the Government, on the ground that the Treasury, unable to supply all-comers, should avoid discrimination by supplying none.
Doc Holiday wrote:
I keep thinking this is the endgame of the global supply chain. When all your business, except for direct sales and the executive team can be done abroad cheaper ! Who cares about the quality IT'S CHEAPER !
~splat
Uncle Ar wrote:
What if you don't know where your station is?
YouTube - Grateful Dead - Terrapin Station 3-18-77
broward wrote:
Honesty gets 'em flustered every time.
Jonathan wrote:
Black humor in the valley during the internet meltdown:
Many dot-com programmers were laid-off and went back to their jobs at Starbucks.
Hoopajoops LTD wrote:
Paid OJT - now repeat the prayer from The Right Stuff - "Please, Glod don't let me f@ck up!"
Oh, depending on what admin builds the Liberty Villages bible study will not be mandatory but ....
splat wrote:
I'm still watching Mom & Pop stores fold up into the new and improved underground cottage industry. The age of super-dooper efficiency is going to be very challenging for people that were living in fantasy land!
broward wrote:
Out of curiosity, what age bracket are you in? (20's ,30's , etc.)
Having gone through a 13 month period of unemployment I'll tell you that it isn't as easy as it sounds.
If you're a skilled professional then option 1 means flipping burgers since, at least in my experience, nobody wanted somebody who was obviously overqualified for the job because they assumed they would leave in a month or so when they got a better offer. Also, this is something that only makes sense after a few months of looking.
Option 2 is challenging because it really involves going to graduate school and if your unemployment isn't lined up well with application deadlines then you're looking at a several month wait before you can start.
As for option 3, it is a possibility, but suffers from the problems of options 1 and 2.
That being said, I was starting the process of upgrading my skills by the end of the year.
Bob Dobbs wrote:
js esq. wrote:
Truth.
Just like how everyone in NH knows that the single upside to working in MA is to collect MA vs NH bennies.
Doc Holiday wrote:
I shall supply a simple look up chart..
Are you running the country => Royalty
Are you aiding in running the country => Aristocracy
Are you an executive at a bank or large multinational => Nobility
If you don't fit into one of those you are just a peasant
~splat
JP wrote:
In those days, plenty of liberal arts majors got paid $60K a year to run Dreamweaver around the Bay Area. After 2001 or so, they never again had it so good.
I can understand the attitude of wanting to get back what one has paid into the unemployment insurance system, because I know entertainment-industry types in Southern California who go on unemployment frequently. One of them knows the rules better than the employees in the state unemployment office: I would bet that she has drawn 2.5 years of unemployment over the past 15 years.
When I see that an entire well-funded industry like Hollywood is able to treat its employees like crap and hire them only as needed, thanks in part to the employees' knowledge that the state will always have a check for them, it doesn't sit well.
After 15 years of working, and only 3 weeks on unemployment, I want to say "Where's mine?"
I don't like being unemployed, but I will feel far less guilty than I should about collecting it because of the sheer volume of benefits I have seen others collect.
It's worse than that.
The management has to be pretty messed up not to see thru the game that Charles Kiting posted. In other companies, there is a mandatory 5% (or 10% etc) culling of the herd every year. So managers will hire folks with the intention of lopping them off in one or two year's time. (It's less noticed if they stick around for a little while.)
All of this is avoiding the hard work of management.
Bank of America's Shareholders (and All Wall Street Shareholders) Should Reject Bonus Plans
The compass always point to
-apin
broward wrote:
When I was a young project manager I hired a few older programmers but my experience with them wasn't very good. In programming you need hungry folks who are aching to play and learn the latest technology, even if it is in their spare time. Very few older people want to do that. They have family and other priorities.
Programming and, in fact, software development in general is a young man's sport and I soon learnt that I better wanted to retire before 50 otherwise my life expectancy wasn't going to be very high.
Cinco-X wrote:
Over what timeframe? in 2005, the word would have been "pour more into homebuilding."
And the market doesn't give a damn about what's best for society. Markets establish themself according to the rules of a society that already exists. Their rules of operation and incentive should reflect the values of the society, not vice versa.
Edit: It's not 1932? Maybe not yet. And the existence of a barista job doesn't mean that everyone can have one. Not unless they've got Starbucks that are good with only hiring middle-aged paunchy people.
Winston wrote:
You'll want to be doing something or you'll be like Broward, and having to explain a 2+ year hiatus from the work force. Check with the unemployment office to see if you qualify for some sort of state aid. Are you a vet? There may be some help from the VA if you received a better than dishonorable discharge. Good luck.
splat wrote:
YouTube - Neil Young - Oberhausen "Time fades away"
Index: Construction costs dip in 1Q - The Business Review (Albany):
Bowles Says Deficits Will Make U.S. ‘Second-Rate’ (Update2) - Bloomberg.com
RE wrote:
The boundaries blur a lot in consultancy. In oil and gas, no one gives a crap how how old you are, as long as you get their stuff working.
HydroCabron wrote:
FYI: employees don't pay, employers pay into the system. A business must pay into both the state and federal UI system, but the fed payment is low (0.5% of something).
Comrade Elmer Fudd wrote:
Yeah, that was weird. I've been in meetings almost all day, and last I checked the market was lazily meandering around +50. I figured it'd end somewhere north of 40.
I peak back and
had made an appearance. Volume today is stronger than yesterday, but I can't imagine VIX is going anywhere quickly.
Bob Dobbs wrote:
And that's the problem with government manipulations in the marketplace......It wasn't the free market per se that caused this debacle, it was things like bad fiscal, trade, and monetary policy. Stupid ideas made sense in a market throw off kilter but outside intervention.
Bob Dobbs wrote:
My grandmother's favorite Depression story was how she learned to dumb herself down in interviews in order to get offers. If they see you as a threat before they hire you, they won't hire you. If they see you as a threat after they hire you, they can't do much about it.
JP wrote:
Thank Jack 'Neutron Bomb' Welch for that bit of operational genius - he pioneered & perfected it while simultaneously destroying GE.
Misc Quotes and bumper stickers gathered on the Net
Check out the "loo" 1/3 of the way down the page.
For Juvie:
"Aibohphobia /n./ Fear of Palindromes."
Jonathan wrote:
I worked in oil and gas for several years, Texaco, Arco, Aramco, permanent and consulting. I understand that they just want to get the job done.
My point was that as a project manager where extremely tough schedules are on the line and where the latest technology is required, older programmers in particular aren't well suited, on average. There are always exceptions.
DETROIT – Detroit, the very symbol of American industrial might for most of the 20th century, is drawing up a radical renewal plan that calls for turning large swaths of this now-blighted, rusted-out city back into the fields and farmland that existed before the automobile.
Operating on a scale never before attempted in this country, the city would demolish houses in some of the most desolate sections of Detroit and move residents into stronger neighborhoods. Roughly a quarter of the 139-square-mile city could go from urban to semi-rural.
Near downtown, fruit trees and vegetable farms would replace neighborhoods that are an eerie landscape of empty buildings and vacant lots. Suburban commuters heading into the city center might pass through what looks like the countryside to get there. Surviving neighborhoods in the birthplace of the auto industry would become pockets in expanses of green.
Cinco-X wrote:
The way I see it, those who benefit most from the free market would rather it not be free -- after they've made their pile. All that competition, so difficult. Much better to use your influence to shape the governments responses economic problems to more firmly solidify your place in the marketplace -- without any particular merit on your part -- and ensure windfall profits through lack of regulations.
Edit -- in other words, the only thing wrong with free market capitalism is free market capitalists. They just keep succumbing to temptation.
The financial regs we had after the '30s seemed to have worked for a number of years. If I want to return to the past, does that make me conservative?
dryfly wrote:
LOL. Like most ideas, they get corrupted. Certainly there was deadwood when he started, but by five years everybody knows the game.
My old economics class had a long discussion on this. I fell for the argument that the money would otherwise go to wages, since it's part of the cost of having an employee, so it's effectively paid by employees.
Don't most economists still believe this?
Palin/Drone 2012
dryfly wrote:
I've seen all kinds. Some want younger hires because they're cheaper; but they wind up quitting for another job in two years or less. Some want older hires because they've been burned by that young-hire game and think older hires have been through enough that they aren't playing the career path game anymore and will stay longer. But the ones willing to hire older workers are the ones that don't have as many job openings because of it.
Many who want a return to the past - as in "1890s" past - may be asking themselves what, again, was it that was so great about old people working until they die, or moving in with relatives.
bbartlog wrote:
+1000
Charles Kiting wrote:
And often very different 'task' expectations too. Is experience more important than bleeding edge technology? Just depends.
Since present company is all hard-working and employed, or, if unemployed, looking hard for that next job, or even starting a new business, how are we on here posting comments all day?
Charles Kiting wrote:
Harder to do these days, unless the job you are applying for is really below your skills.
For instance, somebody with 5-10 years experience can't go after the 0-3 years experience jobs since their Linkedin account and resumes posted on multiple job boards reveal the truth.
All they can do is write a good cover letter and network and hope for the best, but the door often remains closed.
Applying for a Batista position at Starbucks? Fill out the application and pretend not to have a resume.
Bob Dobbs wrote:
Well, it certainly doesn't make you a NeoCon. The financial regs of the '30s were good ideas, but I'm not sure they would have done anything about the off-balance-sheet crap plaguing our financial system, and I'm not sure those regs would have contained these modern derivatives and CDS's traded in unregulated OTC markets.
In my mind, the biggest problem we have, and have had for nearly 30 years is a blurring of the lines between "financial innovation" and what was once thought to be criminal activity. Corporations raiding pension funds was the beginning, and it's only gotten worse since. Some of it was caused by deregulation, but I believe some of it was the result of existing regulations being unable to keep up. I could go on, but my AADD is kicking in, and I've become bored-
dryfly wrote:
Always prune the segments of your diversified company that are least adapted to current conditions--that way they won't be around when conditions change and you find yourself needing them.
www.GourmetGirlMagazine.com ~ "Good Food, Good Wine & Good Living"
St. Patrick was served a measure of whiskey that was considerably less than full. St. Patrick took this as an opportunity to teach a lesson of generosity to the innkeeper. He told the innkeeper that in his cellar resided a monstrous devil who fed on the dishonesty of the innkeeper. In order to banish the devil, the man must change his ways.
When St. Patrick returned to the hostelry some time later, he found the owner generously filling the patrons' glasses to overflowing. He returned to the cellar with the innkeeper and found the devil emaciated from the landlord's generosity, and promptly banished the demon, proclaiming
thereafter everyone should have a drop of the "hard stuff" on his feast day. Known as "drowning the shamrock" because it is customary to float a leaf of the plant in the whiskey before downing the shot, this custom is known as Pota Phadraig or Patrick's Pot.
Top O' the morning ..... Ineed to produce some sort of result, or something somewhere else....
Sounds like a great idea for Detroit. However, I wouldn't recommend eating any fruit or veggies grown in the soil of Detroit. Probably plenty of heavy metals and other delights in that soil.
The Case for Selling Short Berkshire Hathaway
http://static.reuters.com/resources/media/editorial/20100309/Berk%20short.pdf
I read that about Detroit and wondered how are they going to pay for keeping the green area maintained? And policed?
RE wrote:
I guess I'm forced to agree, at least that it is easier to intimidate and wring extra work out of younger folks that have less commitments than older folks.
I still don't think it is a good idea. It tends to burn people out, and it's very easy to take wrong turn with a project, underplan, then find yourself on a deathmarch.
Unless you've actually done the work at the coal face, it is impossible to understand the hairsbreadth between a bad project and a good project. One bad design document, one bad screen, one bad module can be the domino that wrecks an entire system in the eyes of the customer.
Such slips are not fixed by forcing the inexperienced to work 14 hour days. They are fixed by experienced people looking at the whole picture and being able to exercise judgement and good taste.
Charles Kiting wrote:
fifty-one.
One thing I've realized this year is that interviews, particularly with younger people, aren't about me.
It's about them, their insecurities, their problems, their egos.
I try to kill those interviews early now by telling recruiters outright that I have no interest in writing binary trees in three minutes, or doing "brainteasers" to prove how supergeniusical I am. Most of these companies have big ego problems which have little to do with me, which is why they worry so much about "team players".
Mr Slippery wrote:
I bet you think FICA is only 7.65% as well.
The internet has been a boon for looking at porn and goofing off, and a death nell for advertising. Would you really click on any of the advertisers we get that are tailor-made for our interests?
Applying for a Batista position at Starbucks?
is that the one where you get fired new years day and replaced by someone named Fidel?
12th Percentile wrote:
There are actually ground covers that are good for removing that sort of thing, though ultimately, you need a place to segregate the offending materials.
Yalt wrote:
Exactly - and do so by selling the cash cows first [cause they don't grow - all they do is make money] and buy new companies by taking on debt [because the proceeds from the sold divisions are paid out in bonuses & dividends - with bonuses always paid first]. Guy was a true American genius.
JP wrote:
Happens in satellite offices more than at corporate headquarters. And yeah, there's a lot of management that only manages numbers instead of managing the actual business. They would see right through those games if they made any attempt. In many cases, management is only hired to manage the numbers - then those managers move on to other companies so they aren't there long enough to care about the long-term prospects of the business.
nova wrote:
I'd recommend wild goats.....
I checked the market
I rarely check the stock market first. I usually fly by instruments (DX and TNX) to determine the direction/altitude. My guesswork often has me plastered on face of some mountain side.
I'd take my odds being blindfolded in a casino over messing with the
HydroCabron wrote:
Some of our present companies are not seeing the level of work that they have in the past. I know I speak for more than myself in that regard.
Che no more....
Cinco-X,
Wild goats? Damn West VA people would be coming across the border and rustling them. Everyone knows how West Virginia people like a good hawt goat....
dryfly wrote:
the young guys like to believe it changes. the Indians see twenty years of experience as a huge positive, while young Americans see it as a huge negative.
Heres'' the reality - In the last project it took me a few days to set up Adobe Livecycle and get a prototype working, and a few days to cobble together a prototype in Adobe Flex, neither of which I'd touched before.