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I'll probably get skewered in the comments for saying anything nice about the Fed's performance - but I've praised these programs all along.
This is what I think the Fed did right. Oh, and First!
best to all
second?
I can't praise someone that sets my house on fire, then puts the fire out.
Especially when there is residual damage.
I don't blame the Fed exclusively, but they played a major role.
CalculatedRisk wrote:
Maybe not skewered, but how was the
? 
I've got no problem with the Fed sticking to their mandate and being the lender of last resort, to help overcome short term liquidity issues. Some of their term lending facilities were fine with me.
But dominating the MBS market for over a year is way out of line. They have only made things worse by enabling the Administration to avoid dealing with Fannie and Freddie.
And all the Maiden Lane stuff was awful. It just smacks of central planning.
I have a slightly different reaction to the Geithner puff piece in the New Yorker today.
Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner : The New Yorker
I see Simon Johnson has already posted on it:
They Saved the Big Banks But Kind Of Lost The Economy Doing It « The Baseline Scenario
best to all
So maybe Judd Gregg wasn't all bad for wanting Bernanke to continue as Fed Chairman?
wrote:
I agree, and the Fed is a misunderstood target for both sides of the political spectrum.
If you want capitalism, you are going to need a way to smooth out the inherent instability in the system.
Disclaimer: I think capitalism's days are numbered, as it runs into resource restraints, and is essentially superstition based in its basic model.
It has been very resilient so far.
Is this CR's first first?
-- yep, that's my area.
I've gotten so jaded that if you are less than 70k underwater, I think you
sorta have a chance.
New client in today--oh, golly--the mtg broker said he would take care of
them, and boy, he did do that. (That is will be a new client if he pays me)
Thinks the property is worth 70-75k. Mtg 250 plus mucho interest and costs.
This guy has the right atitude
Strategic defaults on homes on the rise
"Jose and Anna Tolentino moved into their Novato condo in August 2005, two days before Jose, a Navy reservist, shipped out to Kuwait.
"I was happy to have my wife in such a nice place while I was away," he said.
But now, with the condo worth about half the $425,000 they paid, his attitude has changed.
"I don't want to keep on paying when the house will never go back up to its value," he said. "It's better to cut our losses, get out of there and go rent."
"
Gimme my $1.5T back first and then we'll talk about forgiveness.
ghostfaceinvestah, maybe this is like training a dog. You praise them for the things they do well, and then get on them for the "mistakes" they leave around the house!
The Maiden Lane stuff was awful, but I think that was more a failing of Paulson (a failure to take charge). Any action there should have fallen to Treasury.
best wishes
CalculatedRisk wrote:
The transplant was a success but the donor's survival is in question.
lawyerliz wrote:
Would you care to put a time frame on getting that 70k back?
No no, the banks need another 6T to come out even.
Or, that's what somebody said several days ago.
7-10 years, unless we go Mad Max.
Assuming this is not an interest only mtg. Also, assuming this was at
least a 300k purchase.
na CR you give due to what you think is due. thats good. now i guess that i should give the fed a call and leave a message on vm something like "you did good"
and cr its okay by me if you're first.hehehehe
CalculatedRisk wrote:
I think that if the Fed values its independence it has to just say no to situations like that. Same goes for BofA/Merrill, Bear Stearns, etc., it is just not the Fed's place. If the Administration wants to pick winners and losers, I don't like it, but that is government. A central bank should not be involved.
Also, I thought the FDIC and Treasury did as much to improve liquidity during the crisis as the Fed, with the interbank lending guarantees.
lawyerliz wrote:
Thanks.
Hungry liz.
All that happy dancing you know.
Hey, we need an :underwater: icon. Maybe with a mermaid?
Too bad none of this success has anything to do with either "mandate", both of which are complete disasters. At least gold isn't $2000 and oil is still under $100 - for now.
lawyerliz wrote:
I'm betting it doesn't come back. Not sure about Mad Max.
Especially since they didn't really put the fire out, but rather burnt down all the other houses in the neighborhood to make your fire look less severe.
greenchutes wrote:
Give it time. QE2 hasn't hit yet.
JMHO, the Fed simply bought time while the real theft from the masses was negotiated: Bear Stearns, Citi, Merrill Lynch, AIG, F/F, MBS purchases, and on and on. The moral state of bankruptcy has grown, and few seem to care.
ghostfaceinvestah wrote:
I can Haz Greeek Island?
Here is my question: so if the Fed hadn't done this, where would we be? Since banks aren't required to mark their holdings to market, what would be different? The liquidity to run up the markets and commodities wouldn't have been available to them? What would be the different to the average person? Any guesses?
You know, CR might have a point. If we hadn't eschewed the Constitution and spent trillions starting 2 years ago who knows? There might have been as many as 8.5 million additional unemployed thus demonstrating the complete insouciance of the Fed towards their dual mandate that includes employment.
They say you never see 8/9ths of the iceberg you run into
I think the two big milestones are a little ways out - under 100 mil fulltime nonfarm payroll and $10 retail gas. Those are both significant, and the Fed is powerless to do anything except buy another year or two in terms of their eventuality in the next decade.
12th Percentile wrote:
Gas would be $1.5 at the pump, which would facilitate a strong economic rebound. Raw materials, food, etc would all be cheaper.
Banks wouldn't be lending because they are insolvent, but, wait, they aren't lending anyway.
We would be at 8% U3, and income equality would be at levels never before seen, is my guess.
See CR, this is where we differ. I believe the Fed is a criminal cartel and should be abolished.
As of 2008 (actually, thru Q3 2009), around $10T in home mortgage debt outstanding, according to page 9 here:
http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/Current/z1r-2.pdf
RD, I have no doubt that minus all the intervention we'd be deep in a Depression. They tried to land us as softly as possible. I'm of the ilk that thinks there was little more they could do at that point. They were several years too late to do anything meaningful. Perhaps had they nationalized TBTF institutions immediately things could have been better but you are pragmatic enough to realize that was never feasible politically. They were already on the Socialist, Marxist meme before the crash. No way he could Nationalize. I really believe he wanted to. I've read his interview where he discusses the "Swedish" or "Japanese" routes and I believe he realized what we needed to do but also realized he couldn't possibly do it.
Mr Sack is wrong on this point, the Fed plans to passively exit, and until they have exited the intervention cannot be completely judged. Furthermore, what the main feature of these programs is that they circumvent the fiscal authority of congress by taking on significant market risk; certainly setting this precedent has a cost. While Mr Sack highlights the $20 billion remaining in the short-term liquidity facilities, he goes out of his way to neglect the corresponding risk asset rotation on the Fed's balance sheet. Mr Sack should be given the verse "A rolling loan gathers no loss"
Ultimately what happened is the Fed stepped in to allow a choice between buy-and-hold and selling, without facing a liquidity fear. Which is fine, but for how they did it. The Fed has only rolled its balance sheet -- not unwound it.
I do agree their liquidity programs were courageous and effective. I disagree that the ultimate cost was the cheapest, most efficient, or most effective manner.
I disagree that they should be lauded. They had way more information, and many months to prepare a detailed gameplan. How much money did the Fed handout to Wall St to conduct their buying, and how much in consultation fees?
I vehemently disagree that Bernanke has earned respect. The fact is the economy hasn't behaved at all like he insolently declared for many years, and in many ways before the global financial crisis.
People are entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts. The Fed's liquidity operations were all but useless. The only things that saved the financial system were the Fed's $1.45 trillion in MBS puchases and CONgress' suspension of mark to market accounting rules.
Look at the record. Despite adding layer after layer of "liquidity" the Fed's special facilities had little effect. In fact, up until 3/2010 (the month mtm & QE started in earnest), the credit situation was deteriorating.
Handing out Federal reserve credit is NOT creative. It's what incompetent fools do when they realize they blew it.
You really believe that ghostface? I'm afraid things would have turned out differently.
Without the Fed, we wouldn't be seeing stories like this. $250M more a day at the pump. Guess who is paying for the banker bailouts????
Oil and Gasoline Prices Begin to Creep Up - NY Times
"Prices at the pump have followed suit, with the average national price for a gallon of gasoline rising 5 cents in the last week.
“That’s a drag on the economy,” said Tom Kloza, chief oil analyst at the Oil Price Information Service, who estimated that consumers are paying just over $1 billion a day at the pump, about $250 million more than this time a year ago. "
Ya 'kind of'...
Those laid off factory workers probably sleep better at night knowing the fed has the bankers back covered.
Wasn't it a loan the Fed organized from JPM to a British bank (Barclay's?) that turned the tide on LIBOR
glad it worked out and all, but that's not a healthy market and LIBOR falling in the context of a web of guarantees and supports does not mean the market is now healthy
it means the market is by design
how well did gaming the leading economic indicators with cash4clunkers work out?
lawyerliz wrote:
Me, and I mis-read Denninger.
The number is more like $3 trillion, but still, far far larger than the 'excess reserves'.
On this theme, we're seeing increasing examples of assets being worth roughly what the market originally priced them at under mark-to-market.
The implication, see also the Barney Frank letter, is that banks need to 'fess up and start writing stuff down.
ghostfaceinvestah wrote:
Without the Fed, we wouldn't be seeing stories like this. $250M more a day at the pump. Guess who is paying for the banker bailouts???? "Oil and Gasoline Prices Begin to Creep Up" - NY Times
This part of your "argument" is supportable -- but your rosy 8% UE3 prediction if we 'd gone full metal laissez faire...... that is a whopper. Part of the (real) laissez faire argument hinges on the idea that real, intense but brief suffering and retrenchment is better for an economy in the long run. Sparkly ponies halfway through a cycle is not part of the idea.
Who got the $400b in Europe that Bernanke has refused to name when questioned by Congress?
There's that 3T number again. I know mp explained the chart that showed mortgage debt being 3T more than M3 but that number just keeps popping up. The 2T out the Fed window plus the 1T in initial TARP and misc. assistance programs. I just hate coincidence. I wish someone smarter than me would figure it out. Numbers just aren't my thing but there is a pattern here and I can't explain it.
Who got the 2 Trillion here?
EvilHenryPaulson wrote:
That whole 'printing press' speech, delivered as if to five year olds, kinda sticks in the craw now.
I hope it continues to give him nightmares.
Just like a Persian Cat to hate on
Let's add some praise for the treasury as well!!
--You're running the world's biggest ponzi schemes in Social Security and Medicare
--Your off balance sheet exposure to Fannie and Freddie would make Enron's execs proud
--You have no problem allowing congress to spend double what you take in for revenues
--You eliminate any question about corporate capture, as your ties and favoritism towards Wall Street is plainly visible to all
--You epitomize the term "equal opportunity employer" by allowing current and former taxcheats to remain on staff
--You've stared into the abyss, and decided you need a bigger hole
Kudos!
This is just one example, but personally when I see a company like HST, the largest owner of hotels in the country, have its stock price quadruple in the last year while we all know the hotel industry is in an historic depression, there is something very very wrong with the economy and how our money is being allocated.
AIG is another great example.
And the homebuilders.
I could go on.
All of this money chasing industries and companies that people should be running away from. Where is it coming from?
And as companies continue to slash jobs, we learn that cash on hand is near all time highs.
I see this all as a sign of a very sick system. The rich got much richer in the last year. And the can was kicked down the road. And all those level three assets are still out there.
It certainly was a success for the top 1%.
Calculated Risk,
I won't have the time to write another lengthy post, so feel free to respond without fearing a wall of text flying at you through cyberspace. I'm interested to know what you have to say.
Today we can praise the Fed. After all, they stepped in and satisfied the hunger of $680T in derivatives, at least for now. But those are a hungry bunch and they'll be back!
Don't forget:
--You squandered a good 30 approval points and immeasurable international goodwill for a new administration in a matter of months
Comrade Kristina wrote:
Just like a Persian Cat to hate on Wheres MY pony? Wheres MY pony?
Yeah. Despite enjoying the Harry Potter movies I've never taken to a belief in magick. Neither the commie "workers' paradise" edition, nor the Arbeit Macht Frei version favored by the ultra-right.
Jack Staub wrote:
Speaking of hunger and obesity, of the 10 least obese metro areas, Colorado had 4, and California had 4, with the other 2 in Massachusetts and Nevada.
I don't know what any of this means, but landing in Atlanta often seems like another planet.
EvilHenryPaulson wrote:
I'm interested to know what you have to say.
Me, too.
I'd love to hear the Fed put forth a coherent argument about how incomes in this country can support current asset values, despite the impact of wage pressures from globalization.
Or perhaps where the drivers of growth are going to come from if capital is forcibly redirected from productive investment into propping up failed business models and insolvent banks.
12th Percentile wrote:
You're a kind and generous soul, CR. I thank God as I know her daily that you tolerate me hereabout.
Gavshire Hathaway wrote:
CR praising the fed for propping up the corrupt and inept institutions at the expense of the prudent and successful ones, and the taxpayers and savers? I cant believe my ears. The criminals should have all been left to their own devices and have gone under to cleans the economy of their parasitic pestilence. Instead the FED steps in and without holding a popular referendum just takes my money and gives it to the super rich. And you praise Ben and the FED for that? This is crazy.
Yup we successfully altered the course of economic darwinism. Collective objectivism now on the alter of 'social" agencies who previously had the mission to protect and service the voting masses.
While I dont fully agee w/ CR's praise, I give it that they fixed a problem they in part created.
I am going to step back and wait 'till the fat lady sings.
If Amerikans had the democratic right to vote on the bailouts and economic parle w/ dollars everywhere, what would have been the result? Me thinks w see the answer in Iceland.
It is not hard for a central banker to provide liquidity in unlimited amounts. This is what Bernanke did.
What is hard is to provide only just enough liquidity, and to just the right institutions, to separate the badly managed enterprises from the well-managed ones. This - the only hard part - is where Bernanke failed miserably. Almost all the players who acted recklessly in the bubble era were rescued by Mr Bernanke's wave of liquidity.
I have to jump in here to respectfully disagree with CR. To me the operation may have been a success but the patient is dying or dead.
There should have never been bailouts. Trillions of dollars are going to the rich and the raping of the US currency is going to effect the world because of the Reserve Currency status of the dollar.
This will not end well in spite of good bureaucrats performing well on sticking their fingers in the dikes many holes.
It's a full court press from Treasury and the Fed.
AMERICAblog News: Joe and I just met with Treasury Secretary Geithner
Barley wrote:
Mark my words. It's not fixed.
ghostfaceinvestah wrote:
Hu knows why...
steelhead wrote:
More
Meaningless politicking.
steelhead wrote:
Reads like Avarosis had his fair share of
.
This is not a choice between a "right" solution and a "wrong" solution.
this is a choice between a set of options, all having their own serious, negative long term consequences.
Life is not going back to 2006 for the vast majority of people regardless of what solution we follow.
I think that had the Fed not intervened as it had, unemployment would be at 12-13% and several more major banks would have collapsed. That being said, we'd now be in the midst of a real recovery. Real assets (houses, real estate) would've found their market clearing price and buyers would have stepped in. Instead, we will be stagnant (at best) for years. However, unlike the Japanese we have neither the savings nor the social cohesion to keep the country running smoothly. Oh, BTW, Vermont reported that Feb revenue came in 18% below forecast (the forecast was ,ade in Jan).
Vermont personal income tax receipts drag down state revenues | Vermont Business Magazine
Gav - I agree w/ you
psychohistorian wrote:
Is that u Hari? Agree with you but hopefully CR is correct and I am tragically mistaken
Nuke wrote:
Gee, I thought that all the mortgage defaults were pumping up consumer spending
*consumers are paying just over $1 billion a day at the pump, about $250 million more than this time a year ago *
Bush's second term, perhaps?
opps last minute edit
I hope Sacks has started working on his next speech: "Preparing for Re-Entry."
We are all wondering what will happen. This is what Martin wolf thinks:
I can envisage two ways by which the world might grow out of its debt overhangs without such a collapse: a surge in private and public investment in the deficit countries or a surge in demand from the emerging countries. Under the former, higher future income would make today’s borrowing sustainable. Under the latter, the savings generated by the deleveraging private sectors of deficit countries would flow naturally into increased investment in emerging countries.
Yet exploiting such opportunities would involve radical rethinking. In countries like the UK and US, there would be high fiscal deficits over an extended period, but also a matching willingness to promote investment. Meanwhile, high-income countries would have to engage urgently with emerging countries, to discuss reforms to global finance aimed at facilitating a sustained net flow of funds from the former to the latter.
Unfortunately, nobody is seized of such a radical post-crisis agenda. Most people hope, instead, that the world will go back to being the way it was. It will not and should not. The essential ingredient of a successful exit is, instead, to use the huge surpluses of the private sector to fund higher investment, both public and private, across the world. China alone needs higher consumption.
Let us not repeat past errors. Let us not hope that a credit-fuelled consumption binge will save us. Let us invest in the future, instead.
To read the whole article google: the world economy has wolf.
While a whole range of government actions contributed to this recovery...
There ain't no government action 'cept to rape the productive and the savers.
You want to praise them for that... go right ahead.
Personally, I think congratulations are premature.
Folks are talking as though the choice was between the Fed's action and depression. This dichotomy is false.
Myself, I have no problem with the liquidity facilities etc that were put in place. My objection is that the common shareholders survived, the boards survived, the management largely survived, the bondholders were made whole... all at the expense of expanding the Fed's balance sheet (ie printing). In short, everything that makes failure in capitalism painful was avoided.
There was no painful medicine administered, so it would be silly to expect vastly different behavior in the future.
There was no painful medicine administered, so it would be silly to expect vastly different behavior in the future.
Yup. That's all that needs to be said.
poic wrote:
Meanwhile, it looks like Obama has declared victory and moved on:
To advance healthcare reform, Obama comes down on insurers / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com
Not necessarily to defend the insurers, but cost control is the only thing that matters now. We broke the bank, and now we have to figure out how to not buy things that we cannot afford. So focusing on the insurance companies is not going to fix the problem. After costs come down, they can step on the insurance companies if rates don't fall. But this is backwards. Not that I don't get the politics behind it, either.
mp wrote:
You say that as if you think there's still a chance.
*so it would be silly to expect vastly different behavior in the future. *
JP - Would you like to have my url for Tulips? Its the newest greatest way to preserve and build wealth.
I think praising the fed is like Bush claiming "Mission Accomplished"
European governments looking to ban the
??
Europe bars Wall Street banks from government bond sales |
Business |
guardian.co.uk
Let's all praise Al Capone because he knew how to use a gun. The harm done by our financial elites deserves NOT one iota of praise.
Rob Dawg wrote:
No, just a gift for understatement
Yes please. I promise not to mistake the bulb for an onion while cooking.
Rob Dawg wrote:
I think there's a remote chance. If I didn't, I wouldn't be commenting here at all.
The Lorax wrote:
---Mission Accompliced
CR
i thank you for being the most honest broker of information that you are
and
essentially, i agree with your point,
had the fed not acted to backstop and provide liquidity, in response to the financial crisis
(that they helped create)
we would all be in a much greater degree of chaos at this moment
but
the federal reserve, and the us treasury and the justice department have utterly failed
at holding those who created the fraud and the subsequent crisis accountable
indeed it feels like we paid the ransom to the kidnappers and then
allowed them to eat at our table
maybe it would have been better if we let the bankstas crumble in ruin they created
even if we would have inflicted great un imaginable pain on ourselves and the economy
because so far it appears the price of our survival
is a form of financial slavery as far out as the eye can see
The Lorax wrote:
After the 'shock and awe' of 8million jobs lost!
CR,
Thank you for the post, and posting it knowing that it would not be well received. It tells me why you are good at what you do. You do not pander and you state clearly what you see. You do not use buzz words, labels, or cheap shots. You sir are a gentleman of the old school.
But....you are wrong. It is
and more 
and nothing but 
Maybe overcast and showers too.
I agree mp. If I really didn't believe there was a chance I sure as heck wouldn't be spending time here. I think it is a really, really slim chance and I think CR is the best place to keep up to date on info pertaining to the chance. The commentariat here is the best, bar none.
Comrade Kristina wrote:
+1
Anyone read the Cavett/Brooks discussion on trust? Skip the discussion and go to the comments. A very salient look at the state of "faith and trust" in America. Germane to this thread and a look at the Fed's crisis handling.Once trust in an institution goes what is left?
In What Can We Trust? - Readers' Comments - NYTimes.com
I think it rather amusing that some seem to forget that Bush was very close to actually losing jobs for his eight years. A feat last performed by Hoover. The idea that Obama is somehow Hoover is silly, Bush took that job. Even if Obama serves one term if he has a net loss of jobs we are definitely in Mad Max territory. Chances are he will have a gain, albeit a modest one.
I was wondering where you were HG. I baked some fabulous, plump split chicken breasts tonight with Cajun seasoning and Italian Dressing. Juicy and delicious with a nice wedge of lemon to squeeze on the meat. Lemon/Garlic Asparagus and Egg Dumplings with olive oil, butter, garlic and dill. YUM>
I've watched the hollowing-out of US industry for the last thirty years.
Now, I'm watching a standard of living being hollowed-out.
You want proof, you say.
Try buying something as simple as a hamburger, that all-American food.
Your "all-American" hamburger contains "pink slime," anal meat disinfected with ammonia.
That's just one example.
No. Thank. You.
"the federal reserve, and the us treasury and the justice department have utterly failed
at holding those who created the fraud and the subsequent crisis accountable"
I would say that the fed/us treasury/ justice department failed to hold them accountable because we (most of the us population) collectively failed to frce their hand.
The apathy is astounding. To me it goes back to the fact that almost everyone wants to get back to 2006 rather than doing the hard work and soul searching required to move gracefully to a new norm.
It is like telling a murderer he is a good shot.
Inevitable with population growth mp. The breeding must stop.
Comrade Kristina wrote:
I wouldn't take that to the bank.
CK<
That sounds terrific.
We had King Crab legs and salmon filets with steamed broccoli that was smothered in a savory morel sauce.
Delicious.
Obama will go 2 terms. That is going to happen.
mp wrote:
---Paging Lucifer, paging Lucifer.
notsofastfriend wrote:
Just saw this. You make wise comments, fastfriend.
HomeGnome wrote:
Hey, I'm just the mail man.
Read The New York Times.
GnomishOne,
I really need to drop by your place with the family at dinner time.
nova wrote:
HomeGnome (in reply to..- 6:34 pm
Comrade Kristina wrote:
the commentariat here is the best, bar none.
+1
aint it the truth..
a dynamic, eclectic, fascinating, civil, and wonderfully argumentative group all in one
nova wrote:
With best case unemployment of 8.5% at the end 2012?
nova wrote:
You hate him that much?
Oh, don't be confused I don't count out Mad Max at all mp. I just think we are still over 50% against it. Like I said, if I thought it was imminent and there was no chance of recovery...I'd be out buying
and not here.
Comrade Kristina wrote:
Chances are he will have a gain, albeit a modest one.
I think the odds are better that there will be bigger employment losses still. We are still waiting to REALLY hit the wall. Last year was just practice.....maybe even the penultimate practice session. After 40+ years of watching I have given up speculating on the actual events or timing of the collapse, but I know it is coming closer. It is looking like maybe even in my lifetime.
Its too bad they have killed all the leadership that would be rising at this time to move us forward faster.
Comrade Kristina wrote:
Or giant walk-in freezers.
*Obama will go 2 terms. That is going to happen. *
Now I have not seen the memo let me check w/
Barring Jesus coming down and running I can't think of any sane alternatives at this point. It is up to US to fix this. At some point everyone will realize that. We must make him do the right thing along with the Congress. The People are going to have grow a coherent backbone.
This is interesting, if it comes to fruition.
The Jackson Health System, which serves Miami Dade County's indigent population is set to lay off 4487 people by May.
Jackson Health System to layoff 4487 people
The nearest city to me, Saratoga Springs, just gave up on its hairbrained parking meter scheme. You see, the bids came back with much less expected revenue (600K versus 1.3 million), and the populace and business community were up in arms. Fortunately, the city already booked the parking meter revenue, Enron style. Also, the city already booked 500K from the sale of real estate that never occurred. So now, for the second time in the city's history, mass layoffs are on the table. The first ever mass layoff were in 2009.
Comrade Kristina wrote:
Unless you're looking at 20% unemployment it isn't going to happen.
Being BO stinks. He received feces and was asked to make anal hamburgers. Nobody can do that.
mp wrote:
I agree and more pertinent than a thousand statistics but it will never be in a Fed speech
nova<
Last night was homemade lemon ricotta gnocchi in a brown butter/ parmesan sauce.
Nom, nom.
Our friend brought a spinach salad with toasted pecans, gorgonzola and strawberries with a strawberry vinegarette.
Oh and shrimp cocktails and champagne too because it was the Oscars and we were being fancy.
*Obama will go 2 terms. That is going to happen. *
what ? not at least a 3 term president? guess that proves hes no roosevelt
I have to refrig/freezers completely packed. Beans, rice, pasta and I am now purchasing seeds for this years planting. I practiced my canning skills this winter and am ready to can my own veggies now as well. Next on the list is more ammo and more guns.
If W could do it then O can. They will pump up the volume on the HOPE machine and jam their way to victory. He has proven not to be a threat to the
and that will be worth a couple billion when it comes to buying propaganda.
The way O is going I think it will be another anybody but O will win. I don't see anybody promising either.
Oh my HG, Gnocci is my most favorite pasta EVER. My Mom used to make them by hand. Rolling them out with a fork. They are perfect in every way. Just fluffy, soft, fabulous pasta.....I make a Fishermans Gnocci recipe that I got from an Italian Chef on TV that is to die for.
Comrade Kristina wrote:
Perhaps some Valium, too?
Elvis wrote:
Yes.
Q. Why do you thing McCain suspended his campaign to go act like a dope at bogus meeting?
A. He was afraid he might win.
In order to have a decent chance of winning in 2012, the Democrats need to lose this year. I think it will play out this way.
Kristina:
Unfortunately, large bureaucracies NEVER reform unless faced with an existential crisis. The US Army didn't rethink it's Iraq strategy until it stared defeat in the face in 2006-2007. The Navy didn't fire all it's sub commanders until a series of humiliating failures in 1941-42. The FedGov is the same. Things will have to get much, much worse before any real reform occurs.
It will be a slow descent into squalor. If you can stay employed you might not even notice.
No, I don't use pharmaceuticals if I can at all help it. That is only in the event things deteriorate more.
I mean, look at what's happening.
The fast food outfits are falling all over each other trying to come with cheap menus to sell what passes for food nowadays.
It's reached the point where the average Joe can't even buy a decent burger.
He can't afford it.
nova wrote:
They will pump up the volume on the HOPE machine and jam their way to victory.
Where do they get the credit/money to pay for the Hopium? China going to give it to them? They going to keep running the presses? Maybe both.
Bring on the evolution.
Hamburger meat is very high at the store. Example I just bought a whole ribeye cup for 3.99lb. and today they had ground sirloin ON SALE for that price. They had a whole tenderloin on sale today for 7.99lb. I think I'll go back after work tomorrow and grab a couple. I noticed the date on the vac pack was almost up. They'll be desperate tomorrow. I'll vac pac and freeze them.
mp wrote:
You can get really good burgers down the street from me at Father's Office (good beer too).
Only $12.00
Beer is extra.
PrudentBear
With the retirement of Fed Vice Chairman Donald Kohn, President Obama now has the right to appoint three Fed governors. Together with the reappointed Bernanke and Daniel Tarullo, whom he appointed last year, that will create a Fed Board of Governors on which five of the seven members are extreme soft-money advocates, and make it almost impossible, even in a crisis situation, for the 12-meember Federal Open Market Committee to pull together a majority for anything but the most modest increase in interest rates. Essentially, the throttle will have been jammed open until at least January 2013. It’s worth examining the implications of this for the U.S. and global economies.
The Counter isn't any cheaper. Viva Santa Monica, parallel universe.
elvis
yes obama was handed a shit sandwich
but
the obama administrations chose not to prosecute and not to tear down the fraud and lies
preferring instead to bolster a corrupt system with bailing wire, duct tape, splints and twine
probably in part because he looked into the abyss and it stared back at him
and thus, he now shares in the ownership of this system's dysfunction and fraud
i wanted...and still want for him to succeed...but a house of cards built on sand will not stand
on many levels i like obama and i am am empathetic to his plight
greenchutes wrote:
But that's deflationary, right?
ghostface<
Are you still a member of the Benmosche Face Stomp Boogie Team?
YouTube - Castles Made of Sand- jimi hendrix
The Fed That Cried Wolf
"The Fed got really nervous today because oil was surging past $80 a barrel and gold was slicing through $1100 per ounce once again. Whenever commodities start to rally-especially in light of the fact that the U.S. dollar is rising on the Dollar Index-Mr. Bernanke puts out a communiqué about his intentions to someday raise rates.
Ok Ben, do you really mean it this time? I have my doubts. You see, the Fed can easily remove the excess liquidity built up in the financial system. The mechanics behind the process are simple. Sell assets! But instead of doing, Gentle Ben is remanded to just threatening action. He knows he cannot upset the gravy train provided to banks by a steep yield curve. Or upend this nascent recovery by crushing the consumer with increase debt service.
Today he expanded the parties with whom he will someday conduct reverse repos. That threat punched the wind out of the gold market, which fell 1% after being up several dollars in the morning. Perhaps Mr. Bernanke should read less about the Great Depression and more about "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" before markets believe it's too late."
mock turtle wrote:
In an oligarchy you cannot [afford to] fire your sponsors. Until the people recognize that the SYSTEM is broken, nothing will nor can happen. The recent Supreme Court decision says it all. I don't bet on it getting fixed.
this is how corrupt our society is...i mean really, please consider this
we invaded a pathetic piss ant of a country under the guise that they could nuke us is 45 minutes
while letting our attackers escape in the mountains of afghanistan
all the appropriations were "off budget" during the first 6 years of the war
we borrowed trillions of dollars to pay for the war on a credit card issued by the chinese
(no war bonds, no victory gardens, no draft, private mercenaries and foreigners offered citizenship if they would fight
asked the general american public for nothing, zero zilch, nada in the way of sacrifice
except to go shopping...
as a country we have become a weak, spoiled, and undisciplined
Mission Accompliced
mp wrote:
We've sunk a long way. I read that sentence, and figured there's probably some pretty good meat on a porcine anus.
We had home-made chicken pot pie this evening. Fresh carrots, celery, potatoes, cream, peas, flour, stock and left-over chicken simmered into a sauce, then baked in pie crust. Absolutely delicious for 30 minutes prep.
You forgot the "on horseback" part... They got away on horses....I'm assuming you've read the One Percent Doctrine? If not, read it. You're blood will boil.
Jonathan<
Sounds great.
The pot pie that is.
Short of
I don't either RE.
Comrade Kristina wrote:
Right out of a western. Maybe they planned on trapping them in a box canyon.
MMMM I have a great after Thanksgiving Recipe. You take your left over dressing and press it into a buttered casserole or glass baking dish. Take your left over gravy along with some softened carrots, celery and onions and pour it over the top. Finish with your left over mashed potatoes as your top crust....Delicious and uses up all the left overs.
How's that whole Ownership Society working out for you?
lied.
Not quite what you expected; or is it?
It's not like
Actually they did. Pakistan was supposed to be blocking off the Southern pass. They were late, very late. I guess Bush didn't quite pay them enough to show up on time. One ray of light I see is Pakistan seems to be working with the new administration. We've caught more Al Qaeda and Taliban in the first year of this one than we did in eight years of the last one.
Comrade Kristina wrote:
To understand that the system is broken is to admit that the U.S. system of government encourages the concentration of power. Heresy, pure heresy... they scream and follow the pack. Therefore sadly no pitchforks.
I've lived in quite a few places. The U.S. is the best manipulated country on earth.
Comrade Kristina wrote:
Catching Bin Laden would have killed support for the Iraq invasion, hence we looked the other way. No mystery there.
mock turtle wrote:
as a country we have become a weak, spoiled, and undisciplined.
I am with you on the spoiled and undisciplined parts but we do have a few nukes.
I blame all of this on Grover Cleveland.
I blame it on Elmo myself.
Nope, none. Thus the title "One Percent Doctrine"...That was Cheney's contribution...
psychohistorian wrote:
Yes, there is one nuke on this very board.
Off to
my Hubby. Poor guy has now worked 15 days in a row along with going to school 2 nights a week and keeping up with his homework. He still has at least four more days to go before a day off. 
Comrade Kristina wrote:
The Second Coming of Jesus is brought to you, and presented with limited commercial interruption by your financial companies of America, underwritten by Goldman Sachs.
Slippery:
My fission chain reactions are controlled. God bless you, Hafnium.
FDIC wants pension funds to prop up failed banks | Raw Story
Had enough of hope and change....now they want all YOUR money
Mr Slippery wrote:
Yes, there is one nuke on this very board.
Does that mean we can form our own country and get some international respect?
i guess as a country with a nuke we could also ask for "foreign" aid....what's my cut?
Just rent Food Inc.
u.s. taxpayers on the hook for 5t of fannie freddie debt … no matter what barney frank says: Tech Ticker, Yahoo! Finance
"There's a general concern on Main Street U.S.A. that ‘my neighbors are throwing in their keys, there's more for sale signs in my community...do I want to buy a new home, risking there's still downside risk to housing?' "
Noting the Case-Shiller 20-City Home Price Index is still 50% above 1999 levels and mortgage delinquencies are still rising despite the rebound in GDP, Suttmeier says "victory is nowhere in sight, particularly when the drain we're going to see from Fannie and Freddie is unlimited losses between now and the end of 2012 -- on top of the $400 billion that's already been allocated.""
Well the Fed did one thing. They helped prevent threads from becoming all beans and guns here.
km4 wrote:
Well, with all of the smart managers at the pension funds, they could probably pick up some winners. After all some investors made out quite well buying banks from the RTC.
Because those were the same pension fund managers that bought all that toxic....
Never mind.
I totally reject that statement and agree with Simon Johnson that it's an insult to the American people.
These sonsabitches have forgotten who they're supposed to be working for.
mp,
If three quarters of the population are not paying attention then they can't be insulted.
nova wrote:
Well, yes, I guess that's the point, isn't it.
As I said to Kristina, if 20% of this country was out of work, they'd be busting down the gates of the White House.
mp wrote:
What's to forget? I don't think they are uncertain about who they're working for.
Geithner probably wouldn't recognize Main Street if he was in stocks in front of city hall.
They forgot that a very long time ago mp. Or perhaps we just haven't been making ourselves clear enough to them? I've paid into this system my whole life with little hope of ever seeing a dime back in return. They've been conditioning us for this since birth. My generation and the future generations will be the ones paying for this. Many seem to forget this.
OT: Not the usual tech ticker overly-hyped crap.
u.s. taxpayers on the hook for 5t of fannie freddie debt … no matter what barney frank says: Tech Ticker, Yahoo! Finance
Edit: Doh! Ghost beat me to it...
If you are over 50 and have no kids you should love the FED
If you are under fifty or have children under 40 you should not only be pissed but you should be out in the streets
There won't be a even memory left of Bubble America for you to inherit by the time they are ready to retire.
rojo bowler.
Every time I hear a Boomer or older bitching about no "raise" this year I bring up how much they've paid in during their 40 years or so. If you add it up it doesn't pay for their first hip replacement nevermind their first heart attack.
Kristina
Will you marry me?
The people are going to rise up? What people? What homogenous group of people exists in America outside of Blacks and Native Americans. Those two groups are already experiencing UE in numbers higher than that now. Not a lot of fire and revolution being preached there.
OMG Tim, excellent timing and fits right in with my post. I'm 43 and
, my husband is 35 and super 
Ethnic diversity had one consquence. It fragmented "the people" enough that they can be pitted against each other.
You're husband is 8 years younger? That's cool I love chicks 30+
But I agree. Good luck to the both y' all
Personally, I don't know why this comes down to an age thing.
I've also paid in to the system all my life.
I've never drawn unemployment, even though there were times when I could have done so.
I didn't think it was the right thing to do.
Good point nova. I get to see it from Hubby's perspective (black man). We are so blessed that he is at least working. He works himself to death though for substandard wages. They are now chewing up the last cogs they have left to keep the wheel turning. The end is near nova. I know this/.
In my little part of the world if you gathered 100 people within a 1 mile radius of my house there would be about 20 languages spoken. Try getting that many different cultures to agree on what oppression is.
CR,
Was this the kind of response you were expecting from your post?
In other results:
FDIC Portfolio Auction Results?
Auction at par 0% (0 votes)
< 10% impairment 3% (1 vote)
11%-20% 0% (0 votes)
21%-33% 16% (6 votes)
Age = color = religion = just another wedge to keep us apart.
mp
You are in the minority IMO. It is not a generational thing until you see guarantees made to retiree's and such that are clearly unsustainable without exacting a toll on those who come after them.
There are douche-bag 30 somethings who got rich off pension money inflated stock but those are clearly in the minority.
nova wrote:
Which is why the
meme is so dangerous to TPTB. Species v specie.
I drew one weeks worth after my employer went out of business but that''s it.
RD,
Yep, which is why I am surprised that there as not been a big PR blitz. My guess is they are not really worried.
nova wrote:
Blackhalo wrote:
Has anyone mentioned
yet?
[ducks]
WHAT IF???
What if after the Summer of Love college Students going back to school were told their college tuition was going up 30%?
Boomers only got what they want because they railed against the establishment. Now they are the
establishment. Why should they expect anything different from the younger generations
Actually your employer did which mean you did indirectly in your wages. The problems occur in the Medicare and SS programs. People think they've paid in millions but in reality they've paid in thousands. I've done the math with wages from back then. I think a 40K median pay in is more than generous. They've paid in to MC maybe 50K at best. That gets wiped out in one good ER visit. The answer it so to allow we younger people to buy in early to Medicare. Nobody wants to talk about it because it would crush the insurance companies.
Dammit, I'm going to bed now.....I love you all....
Kristina.
Or makes cuts to medicare.
I suppose for the
they are the Germans and the Panzers are parked outside of Dunkirk. It is a done deal. Just time to jockey for spoils and plunder. They are the masters. Survival of the fittest worked. Now it is time to decide who gets to be a service drone.
Comrade Kristina wrote:
When you do that math, remember to account for inflation. The dollars that some of us oldsters paid were worth a lot more than today's dollars.
To prepare the squid sauce, first take 24.7 grains of 7.62 beans and insert into stainless steel.
nova wrote:
Palin!
Palin!
Palin!
nova wrote:
I think they are worried but think remaining quiet is the best response. Look at the reaction to "God's work." What I cannot understand is the lack of reaction to their tax aspects.
Comrade Kristina wrote:
It would have paid for it at the time they put it in... Health care used to be a lot cheaper, if a little less effective.
If anything the
will start pushing the American Terrorist meme. Protest and get slapped upside the head with the Patriot Act. Wrap yourself in the flag and get smeared. Organize, and watch the Confidential Informants testify to whatever they are told to. Large protests? Not going to happen. They won't confront or do anything that gets on youtube. They will come for the heads and let the body wither.
Wolverines!
sm_landlord wrote:
But that money wasn't saved or invested, right? It was spent on your parents, or their peers.
SS, Medicare and pension liabilities are going to be awesome, and the pain involved in either cutting benefits, or increasing contributions will be agonizing.
Just as an aperitif, here's a story from a small shortfall in Houston Independent School District:
HISD to cut wages, eliminate cafeteria jobs - 3/08/10 - Houston News - abc13.com
Note though that raising the price of school lunches by 25c will make almost zero difference, since 80% are free or subsidized anyway.
HomeGnome wrote:
Well, after the mess Chester Arthur left...who can really blame Grover for his actions??
The only real revolutionaries belong to the
They are taking down the world far better than any Marxist dreamed of. Quiet, effective, they have hollowed out governments and seized control.
Maybe Chester Arthur was just straightening out the mess left by James Garfield.
sm_landlord wrote:
Right out of a western. Maybe they planned on trapping them in a box canyon.
Right out of the Long March. The kind of stuff legends are made of.
Where Are This War’s Heroes, Military and Journalistic?
By all means, let us praise the Fed.
YouTube - Alan Grayson (HD): "Which Foreigners Got the Fed's $500,000,000,000?" Bernanke: "I Don't Know."
shakedown in philly
Troopers raid popular bars for unlicensed beers | Philadelphia Daily News | 03/08/2010
glad guvmint is there to protect you from your
Just got done reading that one a few minutes ago, Rocky.
WTF?!?
Tim waiting for 2012 wrote
"Boomers only got what they want because they railed against the establishment. Now they are the Fat Cat establishment. Why should they expect anything different from the younger generations"
and what was that weewanted?
the first of the boomers are retiring with their investments, retirement savings in shambles
55 thousand died and hundreds of thousand disabled fighting a "pre-emptive war in SE asia" (we never learn)
many took out second mortgages to put their kids thru college to get an education and a job that will not pay off
the powers that be are a samll group of less than 100 k elite 'rulers" and technocrats
there were 76 million children born between 46 and 1964
when you blame the boomers or say the boomers are the fat cat establishment
you are driving a thumb tack with a sledge hammer
HomeGnome wrote:
Oh come on...Arthur was Garfields' VP... he was totally in on the whole scam..
(Wikipedia is a wonderful thing!!)
Praise the Fed for what, Printing Money?
Not letting the free market wash out the excesses from the system?
Not letting the mal investments take the losses they have incurred?
By the way, nothing has been solved, the can has only been kicked
down the road.
Deflation has set in, and there is nothing any Central Bank can do
to stop it.
mock turtle wrote:
---Boom!
mp wrote:
that's sounds appetizing.
, it's what's for dinner.
nova wrote:
if the repubs run Palin, it's guaranteed.
More sweet revenue data:
Georgia's tax collections tumbled for the 15th straight month, setting the stage for yet more deep cuts to the state's already battered budget.
State money managers reported on Monday that revenues slumped 10 percent from the same month the year before. For the fiscal year that ends June 30, tax collections are lagging 12.7 percent behind the year before, a drop of $1.3 billion.
Ga. revenues continue to plunge for 15th month | R&D Mag
sphincter steak on sale this week only.
.69 per pound.
Mike_PNW wrote:
---You too, eh?
They may be rapists, but I hear the economy enjoyed it.
Mock not true. In CA, FL, NV there are tens of thousands of Joe6Figures will retire as millionaires thanks to taxpayer guarantees .
Let me be clear it is not so much that public "servants" are overpaid while they work. It is the benefits that will last long after they retire pushing up healthcare costs and housing prices while depressing jobs.
RE wrote:
that depends. if you get a fiscally conservative congress, the dems are toast in 2012. fat chance you could get a fiscally conservative congress.
note: i'm using the term "fiscal conservative" to describe a balanced budget advocate.
HomeGnome wrote:
1-2-3 What Are We Fighting For? This? | This Can't Be Happening!
Comrade Kristina wrote:
i thought you were going to recommend we stuff it into an asshole (ht: mp)
RockyR wrote:
We have an elections process that is highly correlated with profligate campaign spending. We self select against fiscal prudence.
No RD
I blame the electorate
Tim waiting for 2012
i agree with you that there have been wide spread abuses of the taxpayers "largess" and other abuses
but 50 million plus boomers as compared to , uh, lets up your number to 100k... thats a signif dif
and
i suspect those zimbabwe millionaires in calif etc will be surprised how this plays out...inflation, clawbacks etc...we shall see
Another solid discussion of
tactics. Covers the Penn Railroad episode forwards.
http://www.martinarmstrong.org/files/Behind-the-Curtain-Part-II.pdf
HomeGnome wrote:
That whole Grant/Hayes/Garfield/Arthur stretch of our history still really pisses me off..
Add up 50 states, Private Pensions, UAW pensions and I am sure you get into the millions easy. I agree not everyone benefited but saying only a "few thousand" or a "couple of million" is missing the point.
HomeGnome wrote:
the thugs have got get their piece. it's a racket like the one the mafia used to run.
CR comes to praise the FED. And CR is an an honorable man...
Do I nead to read the whole thread before starting in on how wrong I find this post?
this is the most on topic thread in years
So Bernie Madoff's sons come to the investors and say, "Don't worry, we found a way to have the government make new investments so we can cash you all out at par, and no one will cry ponzi."
Do they deserve "praise"?
Holy Crap, discovery channel has a documentary on giant squids on right now!
Tim waiting for 2012
just to make sure i recall your point
you are sayin if all 50 states added up there are will soon be more than 1 million gov retirees who will be millionaires courtesy of th retirement benefits paid for by taxpayers?
RockyR wrote:
My prediction that Obama will have a decent chance of winning in 2012 is predicated on a fiscally cautious congress after 2010. I expect a "liquidity constrained" environment for the next few years and therefore little relief of the private debt burden resulting in rather unpleasant consequences as a result of this formula:
G – T = (M – X) + (Y – T – (C + I))
where G – T equals the government balance (spending less taxes), M – X is net foreign capital inflows (the mirror image of the current account deficit which is usually expressed as X – M or exports minus imports) and Y – T – (C + I) equals net private savings (national income less taxes less the sum of all private investments and consumption).
Yogi
Speak on. CR's praising of the FED just makes me downright depressed. Who with any authority will speak out against the FED? Japan x 3 here we come. Except Americans are armed. IF I learned anything from the boomers (Stallone Mel and Arnold) when someone pissed them off....
Not all at once of course but yes. Why is that so hard to believe? Of course this includes the healthcare guarantees
Bonuses all around!
The programs were a "success" for large financial institutions.
Union workers are having their wages or hours cut unilaterally. Non-union workers are even more screwed. The Fed's balance sheet has grown beyond all historical proportion. The Fed has spent trillions of public dollars in the so-called private market, but the public doesn't know who got what on what terms.
Judging by what we know of the NYFed absorbing billions in Bear Stearns-related losses through Maiden Lane while JPM pays huge bonuses, the Fed's definition of "successful" is 100% related to the success of Wall Street.
mock
Public Pensions Online
Tim waiting for 2012 wrote:
Just shows how deep the capture goes. CR is routinely exposed to all criticisms that can be levied against the FED and yet he still agrees with Prof Hamilton. What chance do the rest have?
Tim waiting for 2012 wrote:
so, down goes another hero?
what has transpired to date as at least served to stave off a real disaster.
Goodnight everyone.
racial/RockR
mock turtle wrote:
Well duh. Guys who worked 20-35 years, put in their pension contributions (forced of course), with just about any non-depression rate of return. Wouldn't surprise me a bit.
Why does anyone have a bee in their bonnet about this?
ok i get it
and you are not just talking about goiv workers...re reading your previous...
you are talking about all workers who have a pension esp those who have unions and you are adding in benefits
ok ill research that...how many people each year starting now beginniong of boomer wave0 will retire with lifetime benefits of one million or more
again, there are over 50 million baby boomers out there,
the idea that in todays dollars even 10 percent will retire and get a million in retirement pay and monthly medical premiums
paid for them thru some employer sponsored benefit... jeeze i dont think so but i could be wrong
as for SS and medicare...i dont think the bulk of the boomers squeeze thru the door before retirement age is upped and medicare bennies are reduced for all who follow
I began with some sympathy for Professor Bernanke and thinking Ron Paul was a bit of a libertarian quack. I have an Econ degree and I could never stand Milton Friedman or Richard Posner but I thought Bernanke was at least intellectually honest.
The more I learn the more I see Ron Paul is right, and I'm still coming at the analysis from the left. Successfully prolonging a ponzi is not a success.
JP
yeah for sure the part about what the workers paid in, compounded and returned
i thought
tim waiting for 2012 was concerned and complaining about taxpayers forking over big bucks
or businesses paying out beyond what boomers had earned and invested either 401 or pension contribution
seems like tims point is morphing...now we are into benefits
i have a "company" sponsored benefit..i pay for it... a premium each month
I remember back in the 80s frequently finding myself behind cars with license plate frames reading "we're spending our children's inheritance." That was especially popular on Winnebagos. Those weren't Boomers. Let's give the Boomer thing a rest.
flaminia wrote:
I'll second that. I've been too busy trying to figure out the lyrics to the second stanza of "Mellow Yellow", quite rightly.
I'll praise the Fed when my money market makes 5% interest, or higher....
One Fed Governor shill after another:
"Hey, we've convinced the major media and our cronies in the "markets" that the emperor, in fact, is wearing clothes. Success!!!
Look how we took care of the toxic assets and derivatives. Look how we solved "too big to fail". Look how we've reformed financial "moral hazard" Look how well the free market is working, now we can let interest rates go to free market levels. Oops. Wait a sec...."
amen, i will not "defend" boomers from this day forward...worthless bunch of hippie refugees from a gorilla love-in wannabies
I have followed calculated risk for two years and have never commented until now. I agree that the Fed's policies saved capitalism..but we have a huge deleveraging problem and we are in the third inning at best..
HomeGnome wrote:
You get the government you pay for. When I lived in Pennsy, I noticed they were significantly underpowered.
I can point out many similar things, it all depends on how dedicated and how well trained the employees are, and whether management is competent. Dumb government yields dumb results.
I joke we usually pay for the C team, and get really lucky and sometimes get the B team. There is a quiet network of A team players, but they are leaving quickly as they qualify for retirement.
I hear a lot of Apres Moi, le deluge.
I see it in action after they leave.
Someday this war's gonna end...
One the one hand I agree with Mr.Slippery, on the other I have a question for Calculated risk...
How can one give credit for an action (which has blatantly changed the face of capitalism, reeks of so much moral hazard and turns risks management into a charade for blatant risk takers, socialized losses) which would not have worked without the other actions (monstrously unfair) such as mark to fantasy, unlimited guarantee, buying up toxic assets etc
I think Senator Bunning described him best.
mock turtle wrote:
You forgot the part about continuing to sell weapons tp (but removing our military presence from--as Bin-Laden wanted) the nation that contributed the majority of the 09/11 hijackers & continues to fund very conservative Islamic groups--Saudi Arabia.
Tim waiting for 2012 wrote:
And yet those pensions are now being used to prop up the bankers largess, and will likely end up being the public's problem. Blame pensioners if you like, but you sure are giving a greater evil a pass, when you point the finger at some wage slave that got a decent return, vs. the wizards of Wall St. who make off with the cash, while really not providing much in the way of products or services.
Of course one would have to assume that the GDP, UErate etc. were self sustaining. The fact that they are above the stress test levels is meaningless unless the stress test levels also assumed the amount of government intervention that has occured (and they weren't). So the real stress test will occur once the government stops intervening in the economy and markets so one can see what is "real" and what is fabricated.
The doctor examined your leg but ignored the simmering infection, but then he saved your life by cutting off your leg. Thanks doc...........