WSJ: Treasury Considering Appeal Process for HAMP
Submitted by
CalculatedRisk on Mon, 02/22/2010 - 2:09pm (484 comments)
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"Probably the main impact of HAMP has been to keep the supply of distressed properties down by delaying the inevitable."
I sure wish this pig of a program would DIE.
Are they going to repeal HAMP?
Extend and pretend.Ho hum.
I prefer to call it a deliberate unwinding by idiots.
HAMP news in 2011.
Treasury official have modified the Hamp process. Home owner can appeal hamp ruling until their death-bed. Banks cannot foreclosure while appeal is open. Hamp appeals can be bequeathed to children and grand-children who may continue said Hamp appeal, again until their death-bed.
Job stimulus, too.
Keep on kicking the can. After all, it worked so well for the Japanese.
Who doesn't love a sudden debt over time game?
The Long Suffering Bills Fans?
If it is not mandatory to offer someone a HAMP mod, why then would it be mandatory to give them an appeal if you did offer one. Would this not be a disincentive for offering the mod in the first place?
The she went on to say that "Keeping the homebuilders from going BK is the primary concern of the administration."
poic wrote:
We need a HAMP securities market, then.
CR wrote:
What about the part where the government pays banks welfare so that rich people can stay in their big homes and renters can't afford to buy, and bankers can get their bonuses?
Uncle Ar wrote:
I think it is an appealing option for deadbeats.
"many ideas under consideration in the administration's ongoing housing stabilization efforts."
I have an idea - let house prices reach their natural equilibrium so they are in line with rents and incomes.
Nah, too hard to destroy the middle class that way.
Probably so, but how many people are eligible for a mod but haven't already submitted paperwork?
I suppose there are some, but wouldn't think very many on a percentage basis.
ghostfaceinvestah wrote:
I have noticed that the can kicking has been getting shorter and shorter kicks. At first it added 6mo, now they're adding 30days.
poic wrote:
It's no wonder lenders are not lending and that the only loans are FHA. It is less and less likely, that the lender can get their collateral back in a timely manner, or before some jack-ass bulldozes it, strips it of all appliances and fixtures, or burns it down prior to going kamikaze.
ghostfaceinvestah wrote:
Equilibrium is two four letter words with extensions. That is really bad.
The U.S. Treasury is considering new ... proposals ... to give borrowers 30 days to rent a bulldozer.
Because 2% of the 3% of the 6% of the people who qualify for HAMP might need to appeal.
YouTube - The Krugman Blues ~ Loudon Wainwright III
dafox wrote:
I have noticed that the can kicking has been getting shorter and shorter kicks. At first it added 6mo, now they're adding 30days.
I suspect there is something like an exponential decay function in the power of pretend money.
Blackhalo wrote:
Jack-ass to you. Supply/demand equilibrium seeker to others.
Speed wrote:
Two, four, six, eight,
I can eat my body weight,
In government cheese.
Would somebody like Kristina have the energy and patience to keep it up and appeal? I thought she was pretty close to giving up anyway before she got her mod.
ResistanceIsFeudal wrote:
KD has graphs; it's usually called diminishing returns-
CaptainMorgan wrote:
Why appeal when you can bando?
ok following is the worst miscarriage of foreclosure justice yet.
I'm not representing these people, but they called me to see
if I could represent them in not being evicted.
Foreclosure filed, 40k owed total on a howe worth at least 3 times that--for
over 20 years, no helocs.
Borrower contacte bank paid about 10k, was told everything was fine, they
would call and my lady was gonna send the rest of the money.
Didn't happen. No contact. Summary judgment filed. Property sold!
Attys moved to set aside sale, rescheduled repeatedly, then denied, 'cause\
it was so long. Appealed timely. Motion to delay eviction denied by appelate
Court BECAUSE THE CLERK HADN'T SENT OVER THE PAPERS regarding
the case to the appeals court.
I predicted lack of due process of law due to courthouse cutbacks, and
this is the first instance I've seen of it.
Oh, and by the way, the Lender refused to give the 10k back, in spite
of the fact that the vulture bid enough to entire cover the entire judgment and
more.
And I pulled the docket and everything she told me was confirmed by the docket
tho I'm sure they is other stuff she didn't tell me. there always is.
Elvis<
I ate government cheese back in the late 70's.
I doubt you could keep, geez what were you up to? 230lbs? of gov't cheese down...
When something isn't working, give it more time to not work. That's the ticket.
...another 30 day reprieve from Big Guv for the debt condemned
"Honey, let's appeal. We can afford this place."
"OK. Can you read?"
"No."
"Me, neither. So how are we going to fill out the paperwork?"
"I don't know. That guy at 7-11 who helped us last time got fired, and I don't know where he went."
lawyerliz wrote:
Tell these people to go to the media, Liz. They'd be all over it.
Probably the main impact of HAMP has been to keep the supply of distressed properties down by delaying the inevitable. In most cases, this would just be another delay .
it seems to me that things are working just according to plan if the stories about bidding wars on foreclosed properties are accurate. Would the headlines- foreclosed properties receive no bid have been better?
"Foreclosure filed, 40k owed total on a howe worth at least 3 times that--for
over 20 years, no helocs."
If the mortgage was worth over 3X the value of the house this would never have happened.
HomeGnome wrote:
Over time, my main gnome, not at once. Your thought process is what is wrong with America today. Everybody needs it now.
Feckless Ness wrote:
Only if they fly a plane into the court building now.
Feckless Ness wrote:
And if it not working too slowly, then throw more money at it...
"..another 30 day reprieve from Big Guv for the debt condemned "
another 30 days to live rent free. Great that the government is providing the right incentives.
Cinco-X wrote:
Or build more houses.
Feckless Ness wrote:
Do bankers have any reputation left to smear?
Cinco-X wrote:
And if it not working too slowly, then throw more money at it...
Efficiency experts can also be hired to make it not-run even more efficiently.
If the gossip is true that I heard, Bank of American is not actually
giving mods, just pretending to. NPR had a thing on the great mtg
mess, & there was a call from Palm Beach Coounty, from a lady who
said she was on her 3rd 3 month mod period from B of A, and just wanted
it to be over with.
The experts listened to her, and suggested she. . .write the president.
She also mentioned she needed to spend 8 k on her broken air conditioner,
and didn't intend to fix it until she actually got the mod. Which gives
a deadline of about May, when it really gets hot.
More mold.
So if B of A is just taking govt money, and getting a bit of a temporary cash
flow and not really intending to modify anything, what's wrong with an appeal?
HAMP was designed to slow the process, which helps the banks, not homeowners. I'm certain we'll spend the $75B 'extending' mortgages but, in the end, very few homeowners will be 'saved' from foreclosure. The final tally will be very interesting.
$75B / [# HAMP homeowners actually 'saved' after 5 years]
= $750K per 'success' if there's 100,000 'saved'
= $1.5M per 'success' if there's 50,000 'saved'
The effort to reach borrowers would have to include at least four telephone calls and two written notices, including at least one by certified mail.
So, all the borrower has to do is get an unlisted phone number and they're golden.
to give borrowers 30 days to respond after being denied a modification of their loan terms under the ...
This too is unAmerikan. Expecting the no doc crowd to produce a doc. Leave them alone!
ooh, ooh, ooh I know... How about a moratorium?
The Dukes of Moral Haphazard...
From last thread, somebody mentioned munis. Any city that follows a 7/1-6/30 fiscal year will be proposing budget cuts by May for next fiscal year. In California we'll be waiting for the State's May budget revision to see how deeply they reach into our pockets. There are lots of stealth bail-outs happening in the form of non-supplanting grants and redevelopment bonds. Only the strongest cities will get through next fiscal year with only one round of budget cuts.
lawyerliz wrote:
And what is wrong with paying lawyers to help you appeal?
The reality is that the amount owed was 40k and the vulture bid 80 k, so
I am quite willing to believe it was 3 times the mtg value.
Actual injustices actually do occur.
This figures were gotten from the Court Docket, independent of what she told me.
funny this news hasn't been more widespread.
HAMP Conversion Rate Improves. Majority of Permanent Mods Are Unemployed Borrowers
"It is noted that the majority of successful loan modifications, 57.4% to be exact, have been borrowers who are out of work or are underemployed. If those borrowers are unable to get work, those loans might end up defaulting anyway. Again, this calls attention to the need for stimulus in the labor market."
Feckless Ness wrote:
No way, a few are bound to cut way to deep. Companies do it all the time, they can too!
No.
No, but the public hasn't yet tired of the "oh, those poor people" stories yet. You'll know when that day comes by the
.
ResistanceIsFeudal wrote:
But consultants will result in a higher velocity of cash-burn...
There are no winners in a raze to the bottom...
"The reality is that the amount owed was 40k and the vulture bid 80 k, so
I am quite willing to believe it was 3 times the mtg value."
You didn't get my point - if the borrower owed more than the house was worth, the bank wouldn't have touched it, it would have been just another underwater borrower living rent free for 2 years.
The bank only sped through a foreclosure because they knew they would be made whole.
dafox wrote:
The can's getting heavier.
lawyerliz wrote:
If a lawyer is a shark, and a buy-low investor is a vulture, what do you get when they interbreed? A feathered shark? Or a finned vulture? Anyone know?
'Kick The Can't'
I'm going to have to form a commission to drill down on this data to unleash the latent synergies of productivity I am sure lie within the hired consultants.
We will have the results in 2 years.
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
Caterpiller.
Why nothing!
Upon reading this a saying came to mind...dont know the exact saying but it has something to do w/ flogging and a horse
So does the unemployment check count as a pay stub(hmmm, then the gov. could claim the unemployment rate was much lower)? Or can borrowers just say 'I'm unemployed', and have their monthly payment reduced w/o adding any of that income(?) to the payment calculation?
I believe our beloved Congresspeople are beginning to pay lip service to the public, as well. Perhaps your people should write their representative. There is only a small window of opportunity for Congresscritters to pretend to give a shit before the avalanche takes them out.
Possibly. Generally they are too stupid to do that.
Quetzelcoatl.
underemployed is not the same thing as unemployed.
They have to supply proof. I've done it.
I thought he was a lizard/bird.
I wrote my Congressman the following letter:
Dear Congressman,
You are disappointing to me.
Signed,
Your Mother.
A feathered serpent. Closest I could think of.
I can't help but think that Elvis and Rob Dawg might be right about bulldozing, but misjudged that it would be angry foreclosure "victims" doing the bulldozing and not banks or cities.
LLiz: Your story reminded me of my 85 yo aunt: She tells me a story of watching her dad "pay what he could" per month for his house during GD1. Payments were recorded in a small booklet on a monthly basis.
When I asked about foreclosures: She said that only folks with equity would be foreclosed upon, because that was the only time it was worth it to the banks.
did someone mention munis?
Govt. watchdog group: 'Doomsday here for Illinois' :: CHICAGO SUN-TIMES ::
I think the point that you guys don't understand is the due process
of law thing. If the papers don't get over to the appeals court in a timely
fashion showing what happened, because the courthouse has fired too many
employees, and the people get kicked out of their house, this is a lack
of due process of law.
Very, very, very important.
Uncle Ar wrote:
So, Liz, if you married Warren Buffett, instead your strapping beefcake of a rocket scientist husband, and you two procreated between deals, would your kid have been the Snowball Ambulance Chaser? I'd like to think that would be prefered to an architect right now. BTW, if I procreated with Warren Buffett, our kids would have four thumbs and conquer the world.
Feckless Ness wrote:
They did that in the Senate already a few weeks ago, when the Dem senators who were up for reelection in tough races were allowed to vote against reconfirming Bernanke as long as they didn't stop things from moving along.
What more you want? Real action?
lawyerliz wrote:
---I don't think TPTB give one shit about due process of law, liz.
I share your concerns.
Oh, my, oh, my.
Florida seems just to have tripped up a little in comparison.
lawyerliz wrote:
Is that the same thing as fair? Well, truth be told, I like circuses better.
It's guaranteed this economy won't recover BECAUSE of misguided government & indecision. What I would expect from an attorney-in-chief.
Instead of the Hope Administration I propose the new name should be the "Hapless Administration"
JP wrote:
There were no buyers in those days. We'll get there. Give this thing a chance.
More or less.
If only the red puppets would have won, eh?
It wasn't lost on me. The court calendars are all jammed up here. I had a probate case that had to be heard within 120 days of filing. It took the judge 30 days just to juggle the calendar enough to get me a date on the 116th day.
"When I asked about foreclosures: She said that only folks with equity would be foreclosed upon, because that was the only time it was worth it to the banks."
That was EXACTLY my point. In the case LL mentioned, the bank only rushed that through because there was equity to strip.
If the borrower was underwater, they would still be living there rent free.
Trust me on this - there are "filters" for dealing with delinquent loans - "positive equity" being filter #1.
Another new foreclosee. Owes only 40k or so. tax assessor sez property is
worth 115; so it's really worth 105. She keeps being told it will modify but
keeps being handed off to new people on the other end of the phone.
ghostfaceinvestah wrote:
---A virtual
for you, ghostface.
Deflationary Jane wrote:
Impressive, but not as impressive as my chainsaw and puppies juggling act at the mall. And it only takes me about 30 bloody seconds.
Deflationary Jane wrote:
What would have happened if there was an unforeseen event and it was delay for a work week?
I have friends who filed for small claims court over a year ago and still do not have a court date yet, and it is likely the court date will be ~9 months from the date they receive it.
What we really need is a explicit merger between treasurydirect and realtor.com.
Efficiency and all that. Think of it as a new 'full-service' finance company.
Actually this is a new thing, all my other clients are negative.
Desperation perhaps?
Wow, we've found another way the banks can rip people off.
Is there no beginning to justice?
Check out this picture of our fearless leader.
WSJ giving him a halo, like he's an angel or something.
Elephants and Asses
Trampling the Masses
Does it matter who steals from you?
Red? or Blue?
Did anybody hear the NPR thing about him having secret meetings
with the Pharma industry.
It made me nauseous.
If I had it to do over again, I'd write in Snoopy.
lawyerliz wrote:
I find some of his rap lyrics offensive. And all that pot smoking. A bad role model.
Fun HAMP facts:
Why don't they just send everyone in the US a $5,000 check? It would be far more efficient.
Elvis wrote:
Dude, you like totally died sitting on the crapper...
and stuff.
lawyerliz wrote:
"How's that Hopey-Changey stuff work'in out for ya?"
--S. Palin
Should'a voted for Ron Paul.
lawyerliz wrote:
I don't know where you've been but I've seen quite a bit of "accidentally on purpose" in the past ten years.
you mean this? nothing to see or hear here, please move along.
Connecting The Dots Between PhRMA And Congress : NPR
liz,
You have mentioned a lack of hard money lenders in FL in the past, is this still the case?
I would think that there would be lots of IRA money chasing yield out there. Not saying it's a good investment, just surprised more people are not trying to do it.
Lots of 401ks got rolled over into IRA recently. (Edit: rolled over due to job losses and early retirement)
Yeah, they add the arrearages to the end, so the principal balance goes up.
Makes no sense, except accounting/tax/pretend-wise.
broward wrote:
---Not everything is like one of your dates, broward.
Blumenthal says that the CEOs of pharmaceutical giants Pfizer and AstraZeneca attended a series of meetings at the White House throughout the spring and summer, and agreed to spend more than $150 million on ads touting a health care overhaul. That spending and the subsequent lack of progress on the bill, Blumenthal notes, may be why Tauzin resigned.
"One of the key things to look at is the fact that pharmaceutical companies dumped $100 million to $150 million on ads and haven't gotten what they paid for," says Blumenthal. "They're not thrilled that they spent [that money] in ads, and this isn't going to pass."
lawyerliz wrote:
Can they get their house back on appeal?
Yep. too much
and 
resulting in 
.
HomeGnome wrote:
Subtle sabotage is a way of life now.
Get used to it.
Uncle Ar wrote:
W had a bunch of halo pictures.
bush halo - Google Search
Nothing new ... just sayin'.
Glad to see the consumer is coming back:
NEW YORK (Dow Jones)--Sears Holdings Corp. (SHLD) is shuttering 21 of its stores nationwide, with the bulk being its more discount-oriented Kmarts.
The retailer will shut 21 stores - eight Sears mall stores and the rest Kmarts in strip centers - with about 1,000 workers losing their positions, said Sears spokeswoman Kimberly Freely. The workers will be able to apply for open positions at nearby Sears, she said.
Sales to liquidate merchandise began Sunday. The closings are expected to be completed by May 9.
Laid back...with my mind on my money and my money on my mind...
lawyerliz wrote:
It's not a democracy; it's an empire dominated by a variety of power groups that compete or ally to varying degrees on varying issues. The common herd has no voice. Obama is at best the mediator.
Back in the '60s and '70s the political scientists called this system "pluralism," and held that the common people's welfare was represented indirectly by the manueverings of the power groups they had allegiance to; something like justice would arrive by compromise between these groups. Boy, were they wrong.
I'm now a tatto artist. Got the job last week. Time to go change the face of a nation one tattoo at a time.
I dunno; I think they'd have to file a superseadas bond for the whole thing.
They said they are suing the lender back. I only regret you can't get
punitive damanges in a breach of contract case.
they are packing.
Oh, and the lender was a credit Uniion, in fact MY credit union.
broward wrote:
"The contradiction between sustainability and vigorous growth is shrouded by the myth that Mammon-worshiping, Pareto optimal pugilism in unregulated markets is the sole path to the betterment of mankind.
The approach that has proved to be successful in developing and mass producing consumer goods and shuffling around resources of lesser importance is turning into a catastrophe-maker. Failure of the long-run rise in the marginal cost of oil to cause market-induced conservation (reduced demand and decisive substitution) signals a new age just as convincingly as passing the Pillars of Hercules heralded another world for ancient mariners. Increasingly nasty encounters between the human overflow and hard physical obstacles are likely to lead to a macrohistoric mutation.
Mutation -- a biological concept that has been transplanted into social theory -- implies a discontinuous transformation of institutions, behavioral patterns, ethical values, expectations, and intentionality in the socioeconomic realm. But whereas in biology mutation is a “saltation-like” genetic alteration (i.e., some change along the nucleic acid sequence), in social evolution it may require long decades."
Bob Dobbs wrote:
Last I checked, there's no Electoral College for Congress.
No votes for incumbents.
Dude, is this, like, um, going to be, like, on the test and stuff?
Feckless Ness wrote:
Nope. That's what Gerrymandered districts are for.
about 1,000 workers losing their positions
First time home buyers. Maybe they can get some sweet HAMP.
You know, HG, dude, a little of that goes a long way.
My flation poll is still open. Thanks for voting. I can't get on from here,
without voting a 2nd time.
I wrote myself in on my vote for President.
I wish I would have won.
I certainly wouldn't have f*cked up this badly.
Feckless Ness wrote:
I'm considering holding a sign to that effect by the side of the road vis-a-vis our congressman, but doubt it will do much good. The congressional district is a one-party gerrymander job -- all of California's are -- and all the big money goes to the appointed candidate of the ruling party. Doesn't help that he's pretty much of a joke as a congresssman, a nobody who basically rode his politician father's coattails into the good graces of the party.
Elvis wrote:
Glad to see you're puttin' that liberal arts degree to good use........
Bob Dobbs wrote:
No kidding.
How 'bout those Sears stores, hey? It's "The Recovery" kicking in!
sm_landlord wrote:
Be one with the meme, sm_l. No votes for incumbents. Say it with me now.
Point taken, Ness.
I think watching curling for the last 36 hours straight is starting to get to me.
broward wrote:
They're Dead, Jim.
CaptainMorgan wrote:
I thought we would have a federally funded program to help places like Detroit bulldoze all of the vacant and not inhabitable buildings... At least get rid of them so they dont become a breeding ground for vermin (of all species)...
I really didn't think O would do that much successfully, because it was
mostly impossible, but I didn't count on his having a love-fest with the Pharma
industry.
No votes for incumbents.
Barley wrote:
The closest Sears to us used to be attached to a mall, but it was a dead mall so they tore it down, left the Sears as free standing and put in a strip mall with a Target and a Lowe's. Not sure what Sears carries that Target and Lowe's doesn't, but it will be a shame to see Craftsman tools go.
Actually there is another Sears almost as close, but it is also in a dead mall.
HomeGnome wrote:
Every single day of the rest of your life.
lawyerliz wrote:
That whole situation is quite sad. It sounds like a GD1 story or something out the Grapes of Wrath.
sm_landlord wrote:
I did. And while there are many elements of his platform that I disagree with, he has been true to his convictions, so far, and as far as I can determine, is not as much of a corporate whore as any other at a podium.
No votes for incumbents
Feckless Ness wrote:
The electoral college has nothing to do with it. We're a republic, where we elect others to "represent" us in the govt. If we were a democracy, every single one of us would be expected participate directly in government decisions....
Live strong, gfi. There will be temptations.
CaptainMorgan wrote:
Please refer to OSH (Orchard Supply Hardware). They carry Craftsman.
And besides, Citi must be destroyed.
CaptainMorgan wrote:
Are there any living malls in the area?
I was under the impression that Sears is where America shops.
As much as I dislike the health care bill they're debating right now, I could have gotten behind it if they had included the re-importation of drugs. Too bad that was the first thing he gave away to big Pharma for their support.
Cinco-X wrote:
Sshhhh...hush now. It'll be okay. Can you say it with me? I know that you can.
Do you mean health insurance bill?
sm_landlord wrote:
OSH is Sears-owned, but you don't see Sears closing any of those. Not yet, anyway.
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
That's the problem.
broward wrote:
Around here, dead mall usually means it gets bull dozed and then built into something new and profitable, not it sits empty and rots. It will be interesting to see if the rate at which that happens slows down or not.
Bob Dobbs wrote:
We may be at the beginning of the end of the big box era. Neighborhood stores, mom and pops, money staying and circulating in the community is a more sustainable model, and less capital intensive.
I have noticed that the can kicking has been getting shorter and shorter kicks. At first it added 6mo, now they're adding 30days.
Not down to three hours yet. There's still time.
40 years ago the Sears xmas catalog would show up during the summer so you had time to drool over the possibilities, seems like an eternity ago though.
I hate malls, but there are plenty of stores doing quite well and many people doing quite well around here.
So Dallas is not affected by the downturn?
HomeGnome wrote:
You need to be a tad smarter about that, as if 100% effective, you just end up changing the blue sock puppet for red. Targeting those who voted for TARP and Ben's renomination, and CFMA, would far better serve the people.
Feckless Ness wrote:
I think so too, even Wal Mart, Home Depot and Lowes all do seasonal merchandise. Take that a step further and downsize the future stores.
I could see more seasonal stores like the Halloween or Christmas store models.
If we were a democracy, every single one of us would be expected participate directly in government decisions....
Except those who were ostracized or executed.
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
Walmarts in smaller towns and cities ended that-
Feckless Ness wrote:
Maybe so. The improvements in the regional warehouse model, combined with non-proprietary fulfillment systems (think UPS), and better inventory management could support a return to something like neighborhood stores. And the retail space to support it is there - think former video rental stores.
I plan on writing myself in for President next time around.
Although the Palin/ Drone ticket is going to be hard to beat.
Common sense solutions.
You betcha'
"Neighborhood stores, mom and pops, money staying and circulating in the community"
Only a few hips and skips away from the 1830s - silver coin circulating, various bills of independently currency-issuing banks - I wonder how many other peculiar institutions will return.
pavel.chichikov wrote:
A moot point, since we're a republic and not a democracy....
Common sense solutions.
Could we have some uncommon sense too?
no shnaps that wont work, they would just get someone elses call it would be better if they just got an unlisted address.
Feckless Ness wrote:
I agree, or would like to.
Agreed Pavel. Common sense lead to the surplus tattoo market that Elvis is so happy about.
pavel.chichikov wrote:
---It's questions like that that will get you sent to the "Freedom Education Camp".
You betcha'
20 years ago kids had to drool over their mommy's glamour and vogue magazines.
Just when I think the current Administration has announced every brilliant idea conceivable, it comes up with yet another. How could lenders not be encouraged to lend?
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
Remember Sears catalog stores?
It was the Amazon model with a paper catalog.
Edit: Actually a paper web site, I guess
Just skip the retail store: think regional warehouse + UPS to purchaser's door. After all, you can pay a premium to have stuff delivered sooner.
This cat lying next to me on the sofa is like the regulators. He's been asleep for hours.
Looks like they're going to pass the jobs bill. Remember when $15 billion used to be a lot of money? Now it's a bit of a yawner.
Some people actually enjoy shopping.
I did until I had to replace EVERYTHING after hurricane Andrew.
Shopped out for the rest of my life.
Except shoes.
Do you mean "debt bill"?
I always wanted a pair of Toughskin® jeans.
---It's questions like that that will get you sent to the "Freedom Education Camp".
We will cut out 1000 paper dolls for our Esteemed Leader.
Und zehn ve vill drink champagne under ze villow trees.
Do you remember the old revolutlonary in The Iceman Cometh? Wasn't his name Hugo?
Avoiding
is a no-brainer. Also avoiding starvation.
rosethorn wrote:
For some stuff, I like to kick the tires in the store before I buy buy it. Retail showrooms.
Yeah, I remember their catalog store, but our family was more into K-Mart--Attention K-Mart Shoppers, for the next 20 minutes under the flashing blue light we have parakeets 30% off in the pet dept.
pavel.chichikov wrote:
To say we have not been affected isn't an accurate statement, but we have been about as immune as a place can get.
Keep in mind we did not have a huge run up in house prices, so have not had much down turn in prices. Some of the commutes here are long to get to new housing developments (not long by CA standards, but long enough to discourage sprawl when housing closer in is reasonably affordable)
Much of the price down turn is in either really high end condo's or apartment to condo conversions where the fraud was rampant. There is a lot of high end condo inventory, but otherwise there is not a large supply of housing inventory on the market, and most of the inventory that sits unsold is doing so for issues with the house or location.
We have had our share of layoffs, both across the board and big ones at large employers. It is an area with a lot of diversity in companies an jobs, and not dependent on any one area for jobs however. The GM plant in Arlington is one of the few making SUV's and trucks if I recall correctly. Some of the big employers overshot on layoffs and are rehiring, at least some positions.
Even here job seekers are finding it takes longer than average to find equivalent work, but we have had a steady stream of both companies moving people here and people moving in looking for work.
Dallas has long been a destination for CA companies fleeing high taxes and high salaries, and also for workers seeking a better cost of living despite a lower salary.
I think a lot of the pain of the recession has only been delayed here, but also think much of it actually missed us.
Not a complete and thorough answer by any means, but I think it gives a general idea. I think Sebastian's comments about North Carolina generally reflect much of what I have said here and it is also what I see there, but he gets lots of flack for the
ll
maybe that is what they are trying for,non process of law,all those law thingies do is slow down things /snick
IIRC, Seb is from Cary, NC.
Hardly typical of the state as a whole.
---Thanks for the local perspective, Captain
Ironic that sky-high property taxes ended up being Texas' best friend.
greenchutes wrote:
That, and having their own private RE crash a decade earlier.
sm_landlord wrote:
Sears and Monkey Wards used to have those; the catalog stores often had some showroom space for major appliances, etc. Some stuff you do have to try on for size first. And it's nice to have retailer support in some cases, and also someplace local to return the item. You could make that work with a catalog-store-type model.
So any else annoyed at the 'miracle on ice 2' hype? The game means nothing in the broader tourney.
greenchutes wrote:
There is much more to it than just that, we have a memory of the housing pain from the oil bust and the S&L crisis.
greenchutes wrote:
Plus high sales taxes, plus no state income taxes. Go Lone Star State!
And of course, your schools are probably less disastrous on the whole, which is a nice side effect. But who has worse schools than CA? No one.
I'll see your California and raise you one South Carolina.
HomeGnome wrote:
The Raleigh Durham area including Cary and Charlotte are the only areas in NC that I am really familiar with, and for the most part mirror the DFW area in avoiding the pain from what I have seen.
CaptainMorgan wrote:
Yeah, I remember being in Dallas in the early 2000s, reading a newspaper and thinking that prices for class A office space were quoted per month. Turns out they were per year. Blew my mind coming from the LA area.
I thought only Louisiana gave us a run for the money for the dookie cup.
greenchutes wrote:
The schools are really mixed in this area, but I think on paper they look worse than they really are. TX like CA has a lot of English as a second language speakers, which are alos more likely to move from district to district. Neither is conducive to high test scores. Lot's of reasons the test scores don't look as good as they might otherwise, but some of the schools truly are bad and I won't make excuses for them, especially as many of the more screwed up ones have more money than sense.
ghostfaceinvestah wrote:
Sisyphus felt the same way about that rock, too.
Nitey-nite guys.
Thanks for voting in the poll.
Hint, hint hint.
Dallas has long been a destination for CA companies fleeing high taxes and high salaries, and also for workers seeking a better cost of living despite a lower salary.
Does that imply that Dallas benefits from the existence of high salary, high tax areas elsewhere?
Nite, liz.
$15 bil? I'm surpised Congress hasn't just granted authority their staff to write checks for less than $25 billion.
Can't believe there hasn't been more talk about the debt.
read somewhere (here?) the other day that social security, medicare and interest spending take up 85-90% of revenue collected this year. So basically everything else- defense, welfare, food stamps, transportation spending- is on the back of future tax payers.
Can't people understand that a dollar of debt spending today is an extra dollar of taxes that needs to be collected tommorrow?
Ross Perot got it through everyones heads a while back. Where is today's Ross?
Anyone have a list of the Sears stores that are closing? I searched but could not find a link...
Little girl's growing up.
Took her to KMart on Friday night for two items for a school play that she's in and her comments:
So we actually went and did some serious shopping at Goodwill "'cuz the quality's, like, so better." (her quote, not a joke)
And while at KMart, I was hacked at the loud Hispanic Rock music that they had playing over the loudspeakers.
Dude, I totally, like, you know, understand and stuff.
Like, whatevs with that, like, bra, dude.
And dude, you kinda, have to, you know, like, know your audience and stuff, dude.
"Can't people understand that a dollar of debt spending today is an extra dollar of taxes that needs to be collected tommorrow?"
Some of us sure as hell understand, which is why some of us are cutting back discretionary spending in anticipation of higher taxes.
Blackhalo wrote:
It's not about policies, it's about listening. We hold them accountable by voting them out. If the next group doesn't listen, we vote them out.
So in conclusion, do I want my money supporting some Chinese peasant working for pissant wages in Guangdong or supporting some deserving local 'tard?
The latter, especially if he's born in early August. That would make him a Leo-'tard.
pavel.chichikov wrote:
Absolutely. The problem for CA is that once moved, it will have a hard time attracting the companies back. Without the companies, I don't see the employees leaving this area. It's not cheap or easy to move an entire headquarters or even a department or two.
I have had several people claim that NC has been an alternative to high housing prices in FL as it has reasonable weather. I'm not sure I buy it, especially in large numbers, but maybe there is a bit of truth to that.
Looks like the wealth mining is going to start now, in earnest.
[In the plan, Obama advocates new taxes for Medicare, the government health program for the elderly. He proposed a 2.9 percent assessment on income from interest, dividends, annuities, royalties and rents for individuals earning more than $200,000 or families making more than $250,000
Under the plan, the pharmaceutical industry led by New York-based Pfizer would shoulder $10 billion more in fees over 10 years starting in 2011. The extra money would be used to help the elderly buy prescription drugs under Medicare
The proposed tax would also apply to capital gains, an administration official confirmed. That would push the rate to 22.9 percent in 2011, up from 15 percent now and 20 percent scheduled to take effect next year]
I'm officially going to Hell now.
That reminds me. Anyone like "shutter island"?
Mr Slippery wrote:
Mr. Slippery--I think you are the one that I promised I would send this to if I ever found it again. When you mentioned Lone Star state you triggered the memory--this was co-authored by a judge from San Antonio. He presented it to the American Bankruptcy Institute last year at their annual convention.
It's interesting reading for anyone--especially the lawyer-types, regarding UCC and securitization.
Sorry if it wasn't you, Mr. Slippery!
Legitimate Issues: Where is the Note?
Ghost-
Of course folks here- in particular you- know it.
But the bigger point is why no one can penatrate the public conversation enough to get this debt issue at the forefront. Even this job's bill is just a fight over whether lower taxes or more spending is the better way to start jobs. No one saying that maybe choosing neither is the better way to build a sustainable economic model.
Almost lost a mouthful of beer on that one, chutes.
Nice.
22.9% rate?
Hell, that really screws things since we can't do the math with nice round numbers like 15 and 20%.
CaptainMorgan wrote:
I would agree with that... atypical of the rest of the state. Triangle has been an area of vibrant growth for well over a decade, in my memory.
When you get out in the hinterlands is where the pain can be found. I just got started taking some scary snaps of CRE in the suitcase communities north of Charlotte. I'll build a page when I finish.
Concord?
Gastonia?
Huntersville?
homedad43 wrote:
That's there to remind you that you're not their target customer.
bearly wrote:
We had to kill the economy to save it.
shadowinventory
Sears Holdings plans to close 21 stores by spring - Forbes.com
homedad43 wrote:
I remember when capital gains was 28 percent. The world didn't end. In fact, it seemed in somewhat better shape.
Effective January 6, 2010, 1 mph over the speed limit in California earns you a $328 speeding ticket.
Parking in a handicapped space: $1,876 for first offense
Failure to stop at a stop sign: $616
Failure to notify DMV of an address change within 10 days: $796
Conjure Bag says, "I hope the sunshine is worth it for 'ya."
ghostfaceinvestah wrote:
A dollar of debt spending can also mean a dollar of new borrowing, that will never be paid back.
got any links for that, mp?
mp will you get a second ticket on top of the 1mph ticket, like ga and i thought that was nationwide.
not nationwide its georgias' super speeder law, 200 on top of speeding ticket.
Pearl wrote:
I don't recall the thread, but I'll take a look. Thanks.
mp wrote:
CA could just paint all of its parking spaces blue! Problem solved.
A little of the local flavor:
State workers could lose five days paid leave under a budget proposed by the House Ways and Means committee.
The panel approved an amendment Monday which would require state employees to be furloughed five days -- all to be taken on state holidays. The move is intended to save money in a year that the state is facing a half-billion budget gap due to the national recession. The panel has also proposed furloughing teachers for five days.
Budget plan would furlough state workers 5 days - Local / Metro - TheState.com
HomeGnome wrote:
Sorry, no. This is from an email I received from a friend in California.
He says he got it from a state web site.
Damn it, man.
We need the links!
Get on the tubes and lean on him until he gives them up!
that presumes we have an economy that is worth saving, or isn't already terminal.
per numbers at Federal State Local Public Spending United States 2010 - Charts Tables History the federal goverment collected enough taxes in 2010 to pay for 58% of spending.
So either figure out how to cut 42% of what we are spending, or get some more revenue into the system.
When the civil war finally starts, the government will bring back the draft and in an effort to raise some supplemental cash, will allow the well-to-do to hire those to go in their steads.
Instead of playing Reveille in the morning, the loudspeakers gonna be blaring out hispanic rock.
hopeinsd:
That's precisely why parking in a handicapped space costs so friggin' much.
Note for the NSA overseeing this thread:
Yes, I'm officially tired of all this chickenshit. Put that in my file.
Noted.
just in case any fools thought Scott Brown was going to make a difference. Guess he has a lot of campaign contributors to pay off.
Scott Brown helps Democrats advance 'jobs' bill - Yahoo! News
"A Democratic "jobs" bill has advanced past a GOP filibuster in the Senate, helped along by the vote of the chambers newest Republican. Scott Brown of Massachusetts was joined by several other Republicans to help Democrats defeat a filibuster orchestrated by GOP leaders by a 62-30 tally."
mp wrote:
I just got a letter from the apartment association informing me that any entity with proceeds greater than $100K/year must now register with the state for "use tax" purposes. And if you're managing a building for an out-of-state owner (think goodness I'm not), you have to withhold a percentage of the rents and remit them to the state.
Excessive sunshine may lead to sunburn.
I can see Mr Jarvis shaking his fists in hell at the news.
sm_landlord wrote:
CA: There ain't nothing taxes can't fix
This century's arty ex-pat Austrian strongman leader was elected because of his promise to reduce DMV fees, funny that.
Bob Dobbs wrote:
What happens when those few who have gains, start a mad dash to cash out?
re Scott Brown:
BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...
I'll see your Dude, like, whatevs and raise you a Hey Beau!
http://www.fitsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/SubversiveAgentForm.pdf
---PDF folks; you should know that I
am putting some weird stuff on your machine.
arty?
Cinema, say no more.
yagij wrote:
Yeah, now I'll have to stop smuggling in stucco from Canada.
BTW, the use tax registration seems to apply to individuals as well. So anybody with a six-figure annual paycheck will have to register for use tax audits.
Got K-Y?
Honestly, I'm tired of the intellectual dishonesty.
I'd rather take a 28% cap gains tax rate than play the chickenshit games with all of the fees and penalties.
Yeah, bring on the collapse and let's just start the damned thing over. Rice and beans are better than this crap.
Dude, like, have you never, you know, like, ever seen Terminator?
Dude, that was like, the bomb and stuff.
He was all like, "I'll be back" and stuff, dude.
That was the bomb.
Totally dude.
sm_landlord wrote:
poic probably has some....
mp wrote:
seriously mp? or are you using some artistic license?
Gnome:
Shut up and go to your room.
Eh, sorry, you sounded like one of my children. Nevermind, dude.
I just look at my son when he calls me "dude".
I think those fines are a bit inflated. The speeding ticket is for "unsafe speed" - which is more than 1mph over.
Here are the fines:
Traffic Fine Breakdown: Sacramento Superior Court
HomeGnome wrote:
I just found this:
This is for California drivers - bimmerfest - BMW Forums
If this is true, and I have no reason to believe it isn't, I hope you California drivers have deep pockets.
lawyerliz wrote:
I'm not representing these people, but they called me to see
if I could represent them in not being evicted.
Foreclosure filed, 40k owed total on a howe worth at least 3 times that--for
over 20 years, no helocs.
I think this sort of situation is going to increase in general any sort of distressed transaction that does not result in massive losses is going to be forced into foreclosure or settlement etc. If there is a potential for a gain its a no brainer. This means that the worst loans stay on the books and the stuff that probably can be cured gets settled. You can see where that leads overtime.
Vulture banking is going to kill itself. And its not just banking I suspect but business in general everyone is going to focus on the fast buck regardless of the long term consequences. Its a squid eat squid world. Anyway I think your little story is important is is just the tip of the iceberg.
" sm_landlord wrote:
Got K-Y?
poic probably has some.... "
Sorry used up the last of mine at the close of market Thursday. Let me know if you want me to pickup some when I make my monthly Costco run; I try to make it right before my I receive my monthly trading statement.
Just another regressive tax amongst many here in CA.
Does the KY come in drums or smaller barrels with pump handles?
Dumbarton Bridge in Fremont, CA has had 3 cops working the bridge at once over the last few months. Never saw more than one at a time before recently. I never go over the speed limit on that bridge anymore.
dad43,
YouTube - Michael Franti and Spearhead - Red Beans and Rice
Make sure to stop behind school buses though.
Passing a school bus with flashing red signals = $616
has anyone heard a peep from FNM yet? i'm curious how much taxes are gonna go up to pay for their (presumed) most recent loss....
"Does the KY come in drums or smaller barrels with pump handles?"
I buy it by the drum and keep it under the bathroom sink and just run a hand pump from the sink to the computer where I do my "investing".
Speed wrote:
What do they mean by "penalty assessment."
It looks as if that's what my friend is talking about.
Glad you didn't need to bring Conjure into this.
Good work!
Damn it man.
The "California Roll" was one of my favorite stops.
this feels like a game of peek-a-boo
guess what lil timmy, you're going to have to open your eyes at some point.
mp wrote:
That's just one of the five or six extra charges that they add up to calculate your bill.
Penalty Assessment, according to some guy on some web site:
It is an amount which is added to all fines and for bail for infractions and low grade misdemeanor offenses. It is charged pursuant to Government Code Section 76000 and Penal Code Section 1464 of the State of California. According to the law, the amount of the Penalty Assessment is $17.00 for every $10.00 or portion thereof of the fine or bail.
In other words, you're screwed, so bend over.
poic<
I tried to tell you to go long on
HAMP HEMP
There's seems to be a common taxonomy to the terms
So, here's the J6P plan in the coming two years.
Caligov isn't the only entity looking to raise revenue.
As Anthem Blue Cross sends profits to WellPoint, it plans hefty rate hikes for Californians - latimes.com
someone asking about Fannie? here is what they are up to. Hmmm, I wonder how this is part of their mandate? Oh, it isn't.
UPDATE 1-Fannie Mae launches $1 bln small lender plan
| Reuters
"Fannie Mae, (FNM.P) the largest provider of funding for U.S. home mortgages, on Monday said it is launching a $1 billion program to boost money available to small- and mid-sized lenders.
The program would provide credit lines for 10 to 12 lenders in 2010, a spokeswoman said."
Jesse's Café Américain: Elizabeth Warren: Why Washington Is Not Reforming the Financial System
Speed wrote:
Next year, they'll probably add in a required tip amount of 18% for the officer that wrote the ticket.
sm_landlord wrote:
So, it would appear that my friend is correct.
Sounds like California will be selling a lot of KY in the months ahead.
memmel wrote:
We've been there since.. um.. around 1989. It's just accelerated.
~splat
Elizabeth Warren is a hero.
"Fannie Mae did not name lenders who will receive credit lines, saying it has only just finalized the funding plan that will be run through Natty Mac, a warehouse company owned by Guggenheim Partners, LLC."
Just in case you were wondering - Guggenheim Partners, yup,
Guggenheim hiring Peter Comisar from Goldman-WSJ
| Reuters
And I bet that she's hot in tights and cape.
ludicrous, i know... i'm actually waiting to see their so-called "earnings" which allegedly come out today.... good thing i chose not to hold my breath....
homedad43 wrote:
C'mon ... she's hot, but not curler hot.
I still go looking his grave every time I'm in so CA. It needs to be pissed on. Should I find it, I hope there aren't cameras because there goes my future senate seat >; )
ghostfaceinvestah wrote:
Barney Frank will approve. Keeps everything in the family.
Elizabeth Warren: It's Bank Lobbyists vs. American Families In Fight For Financial Reform
She admitted that during her first appearance on Maher's show six months ago, she believed that the country was on "the brink" of financial reform. Maher promptly asked her what she smoked before that show.
Probably too much of this
However Elliot Spitzer gave her kudos that she was only 2 or 3 of best John Q. Public advocates we have in that cesspool called Wash DC
sm_landlord wrote:
That should boost enforcement. Nothing like random virtual toll roads. All they would have left to do is boost the minimum speed... Plus the insurers get to make out like bandits as they raise rates for increased moving violations.
mp wrote:
It used to be that second-strike felons would run from the cops. Now it's going to be second-strike disabled parking violators.
The great thing about thing about the CA revenue structure is the exciting new regressive direction the new revenue is coming from. More sales tax, higher fines and penalties, squeezing UC professional schools yet drier. It just gets better and better for the people who bought RE in the early 80s and have all of their money in munis/treasuries, and worse and worse for everyone else.
didn't see this posted today - apparently Timmay is considered a "star"
Tim Geithners "Star" Turn: Obama Stands by the Bank Bailout Champion: Tech Ticker, Yahoo! Finance
"-- For all the talk about Geithner being an albatross to the administration, "the president's view is that Tim is one of the stars," Obama's chief of staff Rahm Emanuel tells The WSJ. "
I assume she does the TV interviews because her dept. is totally ineffectual but at least she can educate the public.
ghostfaceinvestah wrote:
"Heck of a job, Timmy!" Where's his medal of freedom, er.. Hope and Change?
sm_landlord wrote:
Ah. The "Falling Down Scenario."
Social engineering at its finest.
""-- For all the talk about Geithner being an albatross to the administration, "the president's view is that Tim is one of the stars," Obama's chief of staff Rahm Emanuel tells The WSJ. ""
I didn't realize this was the Financial Special Olympics.
mp wrote:
Obviously the State government does too. The Franchise Tax board in CA operate like the mob, a bunch of thugs, hitting your credit record with what they think you should owe them without even contacting you in advance. It's a police state. I am amazed anyone stays there.
poic wrote:
No, it's the Political Special Olympics.