a very good discussion and interpretation of CIO of Sprott Asset Management, John Embry's, view on gold: Parabolic Gold Price Rise Imminent Asserts Gold Bull John Embry

America is broken but has a big army.

So what are they going to do with all the REOs and Short Sales after June 30th? Let the market crash in full? Just let people not pay the mortgage? Set a cram down date for every frigging house in the country?

Pay all the lenders in full for all outstanding mortgages and figure out how to get the home debters to pay?

josap wrote:

So what are they going to do

Think of the stupidest thing possible, then imagine something dumber, that will probably be what our elected 'representatives' will probably come up with.
~splat

outsider

I'm not quite sure I agree with you, left you a message in the last thread

"...we are going to focus the bulk of the financial force on bringing interest rates and mortgage rates down to cushion the fall in housing prices..." - Timmay

And thus begins the rewriting of history with Giethner reprising the role of "Winston Smith."

Hey, I'm back on.

Gash choke.

addiction satified.

Geithner says a whole lot of nothing in pretty much every interview he gives. The guy is a total pawn.

Fed Policy paper, Cato link above...
-Bubble & fallout 'happened in an unanchored fiat monetary system with a restricted financial system.'
-Poorly chosen public policies
-Distorted interest rates & asset prices
-Diverted loanable funds into the wrong investments
-Twisted normally robust institutions into unsustainable positions
-Lawrence H. White, Univ. of Missouri-St. Louis
'Federal Reserve Policy and The Housing Bubble', Cato Institute (Winter 2009)

volker the viking wrote:

none of these programs rings true to Geithner's statement though

Ya Timmay should have just said... "We will do whatever we have to, leave no task undone, to save the banks. Get it? Any other questions?"

Be a short but accurate article.

I'm all doom and gloom on the US dollar. On the future of US manufacturing, not so much.

You really don't have to reinvent the wheel, even if you have to retrain and retool your wheelrights. Manufacturing better and more durable products gets easier and cheaper, and there's no going back. The inch and cm have been standardized, and there's no going back: if there is there won't be factories anyway.

will never replace digital data processing as specie in a meaningful way. Unless they make phasers out of glod.

Bond Girl wrote:

Geithner says a whole lot of nothing in pretty much every interview he gives. The guy is a total pawn.

En passant! En passant! En passant!!!

josap wrote:

How's that sound?

I'm in.

dryfly:

You mentioned earlier you thought manufacturing data would be bullish until spring, the "watch out". Care to elaborate? I welcome your insight.

Nuke wrote:

Care to elaborate?

YOY comparisons

TJ and The Bear wrote:

but they wouldn't be there if they didn't think that Uncle Sam's involvement made it safe to play.

they got no place else to go

As someone interested in possibly purchasing a home in the next few years (after happily becoming a renter again 2 years ago after 14 years as a homeowner) how should I feel when my government is trying to make it more expensive for me to make such a purchase?

CR, I hope your prediction comes true and the prudent and responsible do end up benefiting somehow. I've avoided the carnage, but my own elected officials are limiting the benefits I could have reaped from seeing this all coming (with hat tips all around to those who helped with that prognosticating).

Nuke wrote:

You mentioned earlier you thought manufacturing data would be bullish until spring, the "watch out". Care to elaborate? I welcome your insight.

Sure - I think the inventory restock goes as planned then stalls - when the cut back comes [again] it will be ugly [again]. Numbers will parallel with a lag. JMHO.

Pull through isn't there - no where near close to being there - not yet.

volker the viking wrote:

they got no place else to go

That's like saying "banks have to lend".

Nuke wrote:

OT, but my nearest city is going through it first ever round of mass layoffs.

Tell them if they don't like it they can move to Troy [my daughter & her husband are both grads of RPI].

OT, drug resistant TB is an issue I've followed for years, & it's surprised me how little coverage it's gotten. Also yet another reason to want good basic health care for as many people as possible. Drug resistant TB & MRSA, product of carelessness, lack of interest in public health spending, Big Pharma's push for short term profits, and bacterial evolution.

When my father starting teaching at U of MI medical school (long ago), U of MI used to maintain a TB sanitarium just for the internes & residents who used to catch TB from ER patients, etc. Looks like TB sanitariums might be making a comeback. First case of highly drug-resistant TB found in US - NewsFlash - OregonLive.com

From another perspective, it's also a way to limit population growth--eventually.

So here's an economic historian (Lawrence H. White) who concludes (along with a lot of commenters) that 'expansionary monetary policy supplied the means for unsustainable housing prices and unsustainable mortgage financing' and also that the Fed's 'shadow bailout program' has not resolved financial problems but instead protects banks and non-banks from their MBS portfolios and related derivatives. Cato link above
Not exactly rocket science. Economic historians get paid to look into this stuff unlike most volunteer blog commenters.

josap wrote:

How's that sound?

Didn't we already try that, only we let the corp whores run the show---

dryfly wrote:

Rob Dawg wrote:
En passant! En passant! En passant!!!
Is that something like 'Da plane, da plane!!!'...

No it is an infrequently used move in chess where the pawn is dispatched with prejudice. First the prawns then the squid.

lawyerliz wrote:

Everyone knows what a unicorn would look like if they existed and knows lots of unicorn traits too.

Same goes for vampires, werewolves, dragons, etc.

If it makes you feel better, I actually understood what you meant. And that requires some serious nerdiness.

It's good to see they're helping small businesses.

You a fan of St. Anselm?

Bond Girl wrote:

If it makes you feel better, I actually understood what you meant. And that requires some serious nerdiness.

Yep, it is why at HCN you know "these are my people"

For the rest of you:
En passant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nuke wrote:

As for Troy, it isn't that bad.

I know - we went to visit often. It's just got 'the rep'.

energyecon wrote:

Here is why:
First case of highly drug-resistant TB found in US - Forbes.com

Scary stuff. Thanks!

From a new paper on the efficacy of the MBS Purchase program (both Fed and Treasury) by John Taylor and Johannes Stroebel:

Abstract. We examine the quantitative impact of the Federal Reserve’s mortgage-backed securities (MBS) purchase program. We focus on how much of the recent decline in mortgage interest rate spreads can be attributed to these purchases. The question is more difficult than frequently perceived because of simultaneous changes in prepayment and default risks. When we control for these risks, we find evidence of statistically insignificant or small effects of the program. For specifications where the existence or announcement of the program appears to have lowered spreads, we find no separate effect of the size of the stock of MBS purchased by the Fed.

http://www.stanford.edu/~johntayl/ST%20Paper%20-%20December%2020.pdf

I continue to experience cognative dissonance.

Just how low do you all want prices to go?

The last 3 closings I've done were 105 k, 55k and 57.5k. The
105 isn't in the greatest building but does of a view of the
intercoastal waterway. One was in the infamous leHigh Acres.

Hahahahahahahahahahah.

Maybe very indirectly. I'm with Gaunilo.

lawyerliz wrote:

money of account

we're all..............

now

lawyerliz wrote:

Just how low do you all want prices to go?

2.5xMHI nationally, somewhat more for coastal; you know, the historical ratios.

One can think of something new, that may actually come into
existence. Genetic engineers could prolly create hourses with
a horn, if someone wanted to pay them enough (tho I don't know
how they'd do the virgin thing). Other concepts prolly can't come
into existence, but are sometimes fruitful errors.

There might be something in the universe that we could agree
on was the greatest thing, but I doubt it would be infinitely
wise all powerful, etc, etc.

At 55k or 57.5 k, well, you are there.

Haven't read all comments but on earlier thread per American made athletic shoes, try New Balance.

Nuke wrote:

some notable universities
Really, did they build new ones since last week. All I see here is Skidmore, Siena, and UAlbany. Well, UAlbany ain't that bad. As for Skidmore, why pay 50k/year for something you can experience at home for $80 per ounce.

RPI.

To appreciate the need for the en passant regulatory intervention, you need to understand why the game has greater value to the participants with more subtle regulation, ensuring the better player wins more often.

Nuke wrote:

Actually, I forgot RPI, It is a good engineering school. Sorry.

Apology accepted. I posted that very thing in a post that passed in the ether.

HCN? Yoooughtanode.

Some NB shoes are made in the US, some are not. I own both types, and both kinds are great shoes.

Hoocoodanode?
-'Review of Economics and Statistics (May 1942)
'Housing Cycle and the Building Cycle'
JSTOR: The Review of Economics and Statistics, Vol. 24, No. 2 (May, 1942), pp. 66-74
-Cyclical considerations in the future evolution of our housing policy.'
-'The credit mechanism on which housing is based have definitely become a matter of national concern.'
-'The federal government as the main source of financing in any scheme involving public money.'
-'Federal government will even have more powerful instruments at its command...for influencing the course of residential construction.'
-'General patterns of government action directed towards some degree of control over the volume of housing activity.'

Is it possible for housing to be "too low"?
I think that everyone agrees it was "too high"; how about the
opposite?

lawyerliz wrote:

how about the
opposite?

mais oui, over correction will be the order of the day, just not now, not yet

These all all lower-mid class neighborhoods.

I would be willing to live there. But it's hard
to see what middle to just barely upper middle
would be at, because things aren't moving above,
say 250k in Miami.

+1.

You can keep on doing what you have been doing
forever, right?

Rob Dawg wrote:

How about a "principal match?" In exchange for paying your mortgage(s) on time all year FedGov agrees to match via tax credit an amount equal to the total principal reduction for the year.

I've been circulating versions of this online and with friends. The problem is making sure that principal really is being paid down, and there isn't really a new loan somewhere else.

lawyerliz wrote:

Stuffed into insolvent banks, it is become less and less possible to actually use it for anything

Not less possible, but less likely.

The money flows through a System is now more of a centralized network than the beloved Libertarian peer-to-peer model, which means the money flows into fewer hands, and those hands tend to be investors, not spenders. Feds pump money out, it goes mostly into hands that won't spend it. If they do spend, it's usually to buy assets to gain more money, creating more deflation and consolidating more power into fewer hands.

Your poetry really is amazing, Pavel.

Bless you, Bond Girl.

pavel.libsyn.com

broward wrote:

lawyerliz wrote:

Stuffed into insolvent banks, it is become less and less possible to actually use it for anything

Not less possible, but less likely.

Very less likely:

During previous times, when financial bubbles expanded, they were just periods of asynchronicity in a specific market arena (e.g. housing or stocks) with the actual flow of energy. But there was always more energy flowing so even when the bubble deflated, it was against a background of potential expansion somewhere else. So bubbles came and went while the whole system continued to expand. They were just glitches.

The situation is completely different when energy flow is contracting. There is nowhere else to go with one's investments. There is no cover for the "smart money" any more. That is what is different. I would suggest that you are paying attention to the surficial features of the financial bust. But this one is simply too pervasive to fit into the classical bubble model. I suggest that something truly fundamental is different this time. And that difference is that we have passed the peak of net energy flow.

George

Shouldn't we call it "Banking support", since that's the real goal? This Fed and Treasury couldn't care less about the little people and their housing problems if the banks weren't affected as a result.

Treasuries in drag??

Very good!

dryfly wrote:

Nuke wrote:
Actually, I forgot RPI, It is a good engineering school. Sorry.
You say that like its a bad thing.

Get rid of the WPIs, RPIs, CalPolys, Drexels, Stevens and Renselears and you've finished what Goldman's started.

CalculatedRisk wrote:

Altana, thanks for posting that paper ... I didn't adjust for prepayment speeds, but my estimate was around 35 bps using Treasuries. That is similar to their finding:
"A more significant effect on mortgage spreads—about 30 basis points—can be found if one uses an alternative measure of OAS based on the Treasury yield curve ..."
I suspect something on the order of 30 to 50 bps is the right answer (not zero as their one method suggests, but not 150 to 200 bps that other people fear)

The big change won't be in the rates. It will be in the underwriting standards which investors are willing to accept. They will keep tightening.

lawyerliz wrote:

Is it possible for housing to be "too low"?
I think that everyone agrees it was "too high"; how about the
opposite?

Sure. See Detroit, parts of Cleveland.

thanks pavel. that was nice.

Thank you, bANKfAILURE.

Im not so sure volsky, X-mas anecdotals indicate renters going long reduced outflows by "getting on the property ladder" are manifesting in Oregon Urban Centers......

Black Star Ranch wrote:

You want REAL competitive healthcare? Pay for it directly. You'd be amazed at how much prices would be reduced without the "middle-man".

There is a natural experiment going on. It's called cosmetic surgery.

Black Star Ranch wrote:

You'd be amazed at how much prices would be reduced without the "middle-man".

Same as is true for Clean water and Clean Air and Clean Food. You need middle man, but not for profit.

lawyerliz wrote:

Also, less possible. They really are insolvent, you know.

???

How could they be?

the Feds did trillions in bailouts!!

The word, "Overconsumption" always makes me laugh because you never ever see the word "under-incomed". The context of thought is so heavily skewed in the U.S.

CA homeowners to get break on property taxes.

Tuteur estimates that, in total, Napa County property taxes will go down by about $47 during the 2010-2011 tax year.

“More importantly,” he said, “the roll will not have the estimated $400 million increase that the usual 2 percent inflation factor would have added for a combined impact of approximately $447 million.”

This is the first year that the California Consumer Price index has dropped since 1978, when California voters passed Proposition 13.

dryfly wrote:

CR - so who buys them at 30-50 bps plus if the Fed does?

The same question I've been asking. The biggest buyers prior to the bust were foreign, and they won't touch'em now. The next biggest were probably banks, and they have no appetite either (since they can't unload what they already have).

Pension funds? Are they that stupid plus have that much money to burn???

1 currency now -yogi wrote:

Deflation in the price of anything in relation to an hour of labor is generally a good thing.

Without another black plague - the price of labor declines faster. Deflation forces a decline in output which reduces the demand for labor... couple that with monetary effects [forcing general price declines - including labor] means laboring classes suffer more than anyone in a deflation. Landed gentry not so much UNLESS they levered up.

So goods usually deflate slower than the return on labor. Again - except if something removes a lot of the laborers simultaneously - war plague, etc. Then they have additional 'pricing pressure'.

adornosghost wrote:

I suggest that something truly fundamental is different this time. And that difference is that we have passed the peak of net energy flow.

There's many different ways to model it. Exhausted potential is one. I don't buy into the idea of a new boom, I think they floated a LOT of money in 1991, 2001 and now that found its reflection back into actual products + a lot of fraud, and each time the ratio worsened. Savers / incumbents are drawing more from the structure than it can source. The real change was in 1991, when job growth disappeared.

Black Star Ranch wrote:

You want REAL competitive healthcare?

When dieing of a heart attack I'm not sure most people would take the time to bargain with the hospital.

Which is why nobody wants "competitive" anything when they might not benefit directly from the competition. "Competitive is good", is myth. The smart amoral scumbags do everything possible to eliminate "competitive". That's why they purchase politicians in the first place; law limiting competition is worth many politicians. Nobody expects large corporations to complete on prices (except the myth believers), why should the peasants complete on health-care?

RT used to cost $3000 per eyeball.............now it's $300..............that's what would happen with all medical procedures WITHOUT the middle-man......decreased costs

pavel.chichikov wrote:

but I would vote for you as the monarch of cynics.

I'm not the most cynical person on the planet, but when that guy dies I'm gonna take his place.

(stolen)

1 currency now -yogi wrote:

Housing price deflation would help a majority of people.

What?!

Not when 67% will lose their home ATMs!

67% cut back spending because their house is worth less but only 25-30% will increase spending.

That's a net loss in overall GDP, what they're trying to avoid.

bANK fAILURE wrote:

Why do unmarried IT consulting guys lease Condos?

Not sure about the unmarried ones, but I know why the married ones do.

energyecon wrote:

Who takes on multi-drug resistant tuberculosis?

I would imagine the facility/clinic that specializes in it.........who works on Fords?..............a Ferrari mechanic?......gimme a break......in the case of life-threatening situations, your family doctor would know what your wishes/thresholds are.........this is not that difficult - prior to the 70s it was commonplace.....lets not make it any more difficult than what it needs to be.

Black Star Ranch wrote:

I would imagine

Thanks for making my point - if the margins are better in not curing that TB, then there will be no clinic in your vision

edit: Prior to the '70s TB was NOT commonplace, you are talking out your backside on this one BSR

broward:

How goes the job search? My laid off programmer buddy just found a good job in CA as a senior developer. Maybe things are looking up.

energyecon wrote:

if the margins are better in not curing that TB, then there will be no clinic in your vision

......would you mind making it plain enough so I can understand, energycon? Thanks for making MY point.

Im shutting off a credit line after the first.

My favorite prescription drug ad is the one where you can
grow your eyelashes.

Black Star Ranch wrote:

btw, SNAFU.

my feminine side left you a message on the last thread

don't get excited, it's nothing really

Deflation forces a decline in output which reduces the demand for labor

Yeah, but the beauty of mass production is that the landed gentry can't profit if the masses can't afford the finished product.

I'll bet you luxury yachts and personal jets are never mass-produced in whatever is left of Detroit.

(Strange) Similiarites...
'As with the current episode, the increase in mortgage defaults during the Depression was preceded by a period of extensive homebuilding and rising home prices and an increasing use of debt to finance house purchases.'
-David C. Wheelock, Fed Reserve Bank of St. Louis Review, May/June 2008

It's at the bottom of my page.

Maybe they think I need some.

some investor guy wrote:

You'd be amazed at how much prices would be reduced without the "middle-man".

That is why universal coverage is half the cost, with longer life spans, and lower infant mortality rates.
A no brainier, if one looks at the material data.

I have a gold ad!

yea!

lawyerliz wrote:

Is it possible for housing to be "too low"?

Sure -- once the price falls below maintainance cost, then you just let it fall apart and collect rents, and witness the Detroit Death Spiral.

edit: some investor guy beat me to this.

There is probably more ...
Yes let me help....
Extend....and extend some more to try and make keep the pretend ruse of Obamanomics and going or else the gig is up on America's dysfunctional economic system dependent on increasing debt, faux GDP growth, ponzi schemes and bubbles with Obama gone in 2012.

Finally...Govt. to the rescue in GD1...St. Louis Fed research- Wheelock link above*
The alpabet soup programs for GD1...FHLB, HOLC, FHA, FSLIC, FNMA...
History rhymes...with some letters of the alphabet repeating...

If the debt is merely being stuffed into dead banks,
maybe it doesn't matter so much. I mean, something that
is dead is dead. There may be the illusion of life, but
really, you can't make something deader than dead.

TJ and The Bear wrote:

Interesting how many of the creations of GD1 are a key part of the implosion of GD2.

Like the forty-hour workweek!

Ok, we just eliminate the letter F, and all our problems
go away.

TJ and The Bear wrote:

We already have "universal coverage" for seniors, so why is it busting the budget?

The only segment where the US health care excells is people over 65--
Now what do people in the US over 65 have that the rest of the population doesn't?
Inquiring minds want to know.
The funds are going to corporations, not health care-- half the cost is half the cost---
GM pays almost $1500 per auto on health care, Toyota about a hundred, and Mercedes about $400.
GM is screwed, even if they could produce a good product.

Black Star Ranch wrote:

pur of the moment FED healthcare program shouldn't ...........I'll be polite..........should read more. The FedGov is not your Mommy.

Not to be impolite, but looking at the data, every other industrial democracy has looked at the data, and does universal health, at a fraction of the cost, and with better results.
Sorry, those are the facts, no matter what story or myth you wish to believe.

adornosghost wrote:

The funds are going to corporations, not health care

And that is changing how?

adornosghost wrote:

.........and with better results.

I hadn't heard of any official ranking of international healthcare plans.........do you have a link?

adornosghost wrote:

Not to be impolite, but looking at the data, every other industrial democracy has looked at the data, and does universal health, at a fraction of the cost, and with better results.

Sure, it can be done, but do you trust our government to be able to do it? They haven't demonstrated that ability with those parts of healthcare they already control (Medicare, Medicaid & VA).

Elminate the letter 'F' as in Fed/gov/media/international-links/public(partnership)...

Black Star Ranch wrote:

I hadn't heard of any official ranking of international healthcare plans.........do you have a link?

Sure- It is embarrassing.
The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health
systems

Population was smaller in GD but credit bubble process and related govt rescue looks similar...for the students of deflationary cycles...of course...

I understand the "costing more" concept here is highway thievery by the insurance companies. Having the FedGov administer it is also a recipe for disaster. The current "solution" is a joke, AND unconstitutional.

Black Star Ranch wrote:

...AND unconstitutional.

Do I have to say it?

Sigh.

we would do better encouraging actual health.

No more high fructose corn syrup anyone?

A lost battle.

Ok, so why not lower the age for medicare, say 3 months for each year that
passes.
And see what happens.

Thank you, adornosghost for the link..........now I have lots to read.......

lawyerliz wrote:

Well, we are above Cuba and Slovenia.

Oops, study was done in 2000, we might be behind Cuba now.

Some years ago, France.

Only fat people were American tourists.

When mid range and upper mid range drop another 25% in pricing, there won't be a need for more incentives and stimulus. Mid range is still off the menu for people in starter houses that still have equity. There won't be any move up buyers until pricing comes within range of the existing starter house owners.

This whole "maintain asset prices so people feel better about their financial state of affairs" line of BS is SUCH nonsense. Simply put - the top gets a HUGE chunk of its wealth from the debt-slavery of the bottom. No reason for 30 yr mortgages other than people have been conditioned to give up the best 30 years of their lives to make the land owners, upholsterers, designers, countertop makers, appliance-makers, municipalities, realtors, home decor shops, hardware stores, utilities and a HOST of other entities wealthier and wealthier and wealthier. Pay CASH. Save save save and to heck with debt-slavery. Let the top choke on 1% interest rates ad infinitum. Free yourselves from their grasp.

A friend of mine is self employed, no insurance.
He was hit by a car while on his bicycle. Hit and run.

Went to emergency, elbow broken.
They stablized him and released him. Did not set the elbow, he needed surgury.

After 8 months of calls, inquiries, he found a Dr, hospital and anist that would do the job for cash. All this time living in a great deal of pain, unable to work.

The great thng about our health care system is that big pharma goes directly to the consumers on the boob tube advertising their products and side effects constantly without the MD middleman at first until he/she takes the orders for Pharma...

lawyerliz wrote:

Ok, so why not lower the age for medicare, say 3 months for each year that passes. And see what happens.

Because we can't afford Medicare NOW.

The rush to reform healthcare is not about UHC, it's about finding a way to pay for the exploding costs of Medicare & Medicaid.

The way to do that is to force everyone into paying, since the government has proven itself incapable of controlling costs.

adornosghost wrote:

The National Health Accounts indicate that administrative costs account for only 3% of total Medicare spending (vs. 14% in private insurers).

Those alleged "facts" have already been disproven (and totally ignore the fraud that's rampant in Medicare).

If cars and motorcycles have to be licensed and insured to use the public streets, why don't they require the same of bicycles? Including uninsured motorist coverage.

MayorQ,
Most people don't have the cash to buy housing thus funky loans to make it (inflated bubble prices) work for the banks...most people can't even buy their cars for cash...wage and salary issue maybe.

merchants of fear wrote:

most people can't even buy their cars for cash...wage and salary issue maybe.

Hmm.

Sounds like they might be under-incomed.

ha ha.

Yeah Liz,
Even in most 'dollar' stores, there's not really much for a buck! Hard to control spending for sure in the New Economy of austerity.

The eyelid growing medicine is called Latisse. I tried it, but I think it dripped into my nose.

josap wrote:

After 8 months of calls, inquiries, he found a Dr, hospital and anist that would do the job for cash.

He should have gone to Thailand, they do great re-constructive work for 1/4 of the cost!

My elderly grandparents in Greece have been repeatedly turned away for treatment. In Europe, this type of rationing is viewed as acceptable, and allows them to better control costs. This would not be tolerated in the US; the AARP and the lawyers would be all over the airwaves, screaming about discrimination. There are deep rooted cultural reasons why the type of health care savings achieved overseas won't be realized here.

lawyerliz wrote:

Stuffing useless electrons into dead banks does
nothing for anybody except the bonus brigade. And
really, they are hardly numerous enough to support
an economy.

This article, Why Rich Consumers Matter More - Rick Newman (usnews.com), seems to argue against that. I too thought that a thin uppercrust could not spend enough to make up for a diminishing middle class. This fellow seems to think differently. I do wonder about the possible propaganda such an article could support. "Shut up proles. The bonus brigade can carry on without you"?

TJ and The Bear wrote:

but do you trust our government to be able to do it?

Are you like you know, suggesting we outsource to Denmark? Franchise the Canadian system and pay royalties?

josap wrote:

A friend of mine is self employed, no insurance.
He was hit by a car while on his bicycle. Hit and run.

Here's the story opposite:

I am self employed, I pay $185 a month for a high deductible health savings account with Kaiser.
I was hit by a car while on my bicycle, back in August.
Went to emergency, nothing broken but lots of xrays and CAT scan because of the head bump.
Have some residual damage to a knee, but not bad enough to warrant surgery.

Ended up paying around $500 out of pocket. Missed no work, even though I had to be "light" duty for 6 weeks while my shoulder and leg healed.

I don't think $185 a month is too much to ask someone who is self employed to come up with. When you are self employed it is your job to take care of your incoming earning resource: which is YOU. A whole lot of self employed people hurt themselves and their families by not finding a bare minimum a high deductible policy in case of emergency, which is something your friend found out the hard way.

merchants of fear wrote:

Cars can be a money pit like McHouses. Don't buy a Prius for example to prevent climate change...you won't save money on the savings on gas with the payments you have to make to save money and the environment..

True. And actually, I have a Prius. I bought it as insurance in case the dollar tanked and oil skyrocketed. Well, that sort of happened, and then it unhappened. But it could happen again. I count the $6K I paid over the price of an equivalent non-hybrid as a hedge against future shortages; anything's possible. In the meantime, I enjoy the thing.

Commentators have said, with a lot of validity, that it's environmentally unsound to ditch a sound old car with so-so miles for a new hybrid, given the energy and resources needed to produce the thing. And this is true, and I do advise people of that. And I do practice what I preach, because my previous car had 200K miles on it and wasn't so reliable anymore.

Here's something you might find interesting and fun on a cold Sunday evening.

This photo comes from the mp family files. I ran across it yesterday.

I don't think you'll see it anywhere else.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/dximytnnyni/Photo.jpg

Who can identify anyone in the photo?

Here is a hint:

1. The photo was taken at a party in a house on Garfield Drive in San Marino, California, after 1920, but before the end of prohibition (notice the scotch bottles).
2. The neighbors in San Marino were the Pattons (yes, those Pattons).
3. One of the people in the photo is family. I'm not saying which one.

Bob Dobbs wrote:

always pay cash, and the closer always remarks how rare that is; since the '90s, anyway

Funny, but at the Mercedes dealer this isn't very rare.

I don't have a problem with older people having mortgages. I do have a problem with minimal lending standards. Fifty and want a mortgage? How about 40-50% down.

Nuke wrote:

There are deep rooted cultural reasons why the type of health care savings achieved overseas won't be realized here.

Isn't that a bit like saying that we are culturally committed to living beyond our means? We cannot afford to stay on the existing path of health care spending as the baby boomers age over the next 30 years. Something pretty significant has to give on the cost side.

mp wrote:

Who can identify anyone in the photo?

Back row, 2nd from left; famous author.

TJ and The Bear wrote:

How about we have all the states bypass DC and join the Canadian system?

They could just use the Canadian system as "model legislation".

merchants of fear wrote:

MayorQ,
Most people don't have the cash to buy housing thus funky loans to make it (inflated bubble prices) work for the banks...most people can't even buy their cars for cash...wage and salary issue maybe.

Not true - supply and demand. If you have 4 people each with one dollar - and I have 4 apples - I'll probably get ONE of the 4 people to offer up his dollar. The price of an apple is therefore $1. IF however - one guy offers to pay $10 (even though he only has $1) by borrowing the other $9, the price of my apples just went up to $10. As an apple owner - I'm very happy but now ALL 4 men have to work hard to pay $10 for the apple. Truth be told - if no one were to take on any debt, the entire fractional reserve system would break down because no new FRN's are issued against solid collateral. This is in fact exactly what causes depressions. We are actually running out of dollars (which end up with our creditors). You need to constantly have new debt-slaves to keep the system afloat and everything the gvmt is doing is making people NOT want to take on any debt.

lawyerliz wrote:

Especially with shoes.

I had the same problem, did some research, and bought a nice pair made by SAS (San Antonio Shoes). Ladies and mens. Well made, comfortable, all made in US.

mp,
Is it the Illuminati?

MayorQ,
word!

Cinerama Doom film review

Panic In Year Zero! is set in the aftermath of a nuclear exchange, in the early 1960's...

It's pretty cheesy, and Frankie Avalon finds a cave for them to doomstead in~

out of a possible

Panic In Year Zero! gets

I'll give you another hint, which might help.

Front row, third from left:

Florence Lowe Barnes aka Pancho Barnes.

MQ,
But it also sounds like the govt. is trying to Crash the debt/credit system as you described it...making people not want loans who are underwater on their paychecks to their bills, contract debt and all...they will have to go under if the debt is not extended or re-worked, modified, principaled down, etc.

patientrenter wrote:

Isn't that a bit like saying that we are culturally committed to living beyond our means?

In a manner of speaking, yes.

There is recent historical precedent for cost control in healthcare -- the advent of HMO's. When they came about costs came under control due to the "gatekeepers"; however, people that didn't get the expensive tests and/or experimental treatments they felt they deserved complained to their congresscritters, which promptly eviscerated the HMO's gatekeeping efforts. Costs promptly resumed their previous upward march.

Still, that's private healthcare and has nothing to do with the soaring costs of government controlled healthcare.

The only part of the film that seems plausible is the mad-dash-rush out of the City of Angles, people feeling trapezoided.

"And actually, I have a Prius."

.....A prius left the parking space in front of us this AM..........NO SOUND!......No engine noise - sounded like a golf cart.......I didn't know what it was, asked the Mrs........she said a Prius............I was amazed.........I obviously don't get out enough.

merchants of fear wrote:

...they will have to go under if the debt is not extended or re-worked, modified, principaled down, etc.

That is indeed becoming the only option for many in the US. And I agree that it is very strange to see our system arranging that outcome. No way I think they are that stupid, to not understand exactly what is happening and why.

Black Star Ranch wrote:

.....A prius left the parking space in front of us this AM..........NO SOUND!......No engine noise - sounded like a golf cart.......I didn't know what it was, asked the Mrs........she said a Prius............I was amazed.........I obviously don't get out enough.

I love that. It almost always starts on electric drive for at least the first few seconds. If the battery's full up and you don't punch it, you can sometimes go a good portion of a mile on electric alone. I will convert it to a plug-hybrid someday if that ever makes real sense. It may not.

Drawback: pedestrians don't hear it. You will become an unwitting qualifying official for the Darwin Award if you don't watch it. Because many pedestrians, ah, don't.

Yogi,

Neither do golf carts but they are generally not allowed on streets highways or freeways. Lots of bicycle car accidents now days. I say it is time to license and insure them.

the image hosting is a bit slow for this connex

Me too. Anybody else have trouble with BrightHouse
the last couple of days?

merchants of fear wrote:

something socially experimental to promote the group living to save household expenses...

Boarding houses and communes?

New Treasury Public Service announcement...Progress as Promised.

YouTube - Eddie Cantor- When We Build A Little Home