good morning all
hope everyone had a good christmas
and i am so glad its over!

I appreciate China's candor. Nothing like a fuck-you to the rest of world. They are clearly feeling their cheerios as the trade surplus King.

LOL. What are we going to do about it?

volker the viking wrote:

Timmay will stamp his foot and ball his hands up into fists.

He'll probably manage a 'darn' or two also.

Way to go Free Trade.
I guess the Free Trade proponents did not do much contingency planning.

The (mis)statement of the week:

UPDATE: China Wen: China Won't Yield To Any Kind Of Pressure On Yuan - WSJ.com
SHANGHAI (Dow Jones)--China's Premier Wen Jiabao said Sunday despite growing calls from trading partners for the yuan to appreciate, China won't succumb to any such pressure.
Demanding a stronger yuan while adopting trade protectionism at the same time by some foreign countries is meant to arrest China's development, Wen told the official Xinhua News Agency in an interview.
"Keeping the yuan's value basically steady is our contribution to the international community at a time when the world's major currencies have been devalued," Wen said.

Umm, steady relative to what???

The Chinese have been at the money game a lot longer than everybody else (er, except for that opium stretch) and they also have patience.

dfwmix wrote:

I guess the Free Trade proponents did not do much contingency planning.

One of the alternatives not planned as contingency: Under what circumstances would the US withdraw from the WTO, and renounce/renegotiate bi-lateral and multi-lateral trade agreements?

(in order to save the US economy)

gabyjan wrote:

by the way what is going on that we need to be distracted by fear?

well, it's been in all the papers

"I guess the Free Trade proponents did not do much contingency planning."

Yeah, we didn't believe people could be stupid enough to believe gov't regulated everything was free trade. Working on that one though...

Currency wars will be interesting.

It appears we can assume they will continue the status quo (buy US debt to balance their trade surplus) uninterrupted and in perpetuity. Do they have any other option?

no_vaseline wrote:

Do they have any other option?

yes

they take the long view and they have been buying PM's, base metals, all sorts of stuff

also, they are one of the biggest producers of gold from their domestic resources

relax, a century is a long time, we're just getting started

China is having its own little problems regarding overcapacity in mfg, CRE and state bank liquidity raising problem. Not much to buy Treasury's Hu said recently.

So, they wait for the race to the bottom? They have more ability to shelter their currency and move in and on? But if the world's currencies implode, who will buy after the carnage is done because then everyone is busted.

Its a fools errand. China overplayed their hand, they are using bravado but it won't be sufficient. JMHO. I'm not saying the dollar won't get replaced but I don't think it will play out in the strong way China believes it will.

New rule:

I can only watch MTP, if i've got an i.v. drip going. I get dehydrated waiting for David Gregory to ask an intelligent question, or follow-up. Thank goodness it's but an hour long, otherwise i'd walk the plank____

Juvenal Delinquent wrote:

I can only watch MTP, if i've got an i.v. drip going

Morphine instead of saline might work better.

God bless Newt

Juvenal Delinquent wrote:

I can only watch MTP, if i've got an i.v. drip going. I get dehydrated waiting for David Gregory to ask an intelligent question, or follow-up.

I gave them a year and a half after Russert passed away. It sucks anymore. The only reason I continue to watch is I'm afraid whoever replaces George at "This Week" will suck worse.

volker the viking wrote:

Timmay will stamp his foot and ball his hands up into fists.

you forgot- and hold his breath

I love my Sunshine Minting 5oz Silver Eagle, so pretty. Note; do not hold in bright sunlight while looking! worse than a camera flash at 1 foot. One eye typing now

JimPortlandOR wrote:

Under what circumstances would the US withdraw from the WTO, and renounce/renegotiate bi-lateral and multi-lateral trade agreements?

It would require most of the sheep in this country to stop worrying about - abortion, gay rights, guns and god. When they are prepared to vote for somebody who is willing to demand that all our trade agreements require that products exported to the United States must be produced in establishments that meet our environmental, safety and labor standards and whose currencies are freely traded then we will have the luxury to worry about all the distractions.

BTW to show you how stupid we Americans are - I was talking to somebody well connected in the DC circles who made the observation that it was politically more feasible to hand out huge amounts to the banks rather than have the government take them over. i.e. its ok to nationalize the liabilities of the banks but not the assets - because that would be attacked as too much government involvement!!!. If our discourse is that stupid or that hung up on one liners we are getting exactly what we deserve. I the Chinese and Indians if they are not donating to all the crazies who want creationism taught as science they should be. While they educate engineers and scientists we debate whether the world was created 6,000 years ago and whether god placed the fossils as part of his creation.

If you thought you've heard all the crazy ideas of the year, wait - there is more!

And if you thought Ponzi schemes got thoroughly discredited - here the ultimate one.

Robert Shiller wants to sell out the future of America (and any other country, for that matter)

ECONOMIC VIEW; A Way to Share in a Nation’s Growth - NY Times
CORPORATIONS raise money by issuing both debt and equity, the latter giving investors an implicit share in future profits. Governments should do something like this, too, and not just rely on debt.
Borrowing a concept from corporate finance, governments could sell a new type of security that commits them to paying shares in national “profit,” as measured by gross domestic product.
Historically, one impediment to such a move was the difficulty in accounting on a national scale: governments didn’t even try to measure G.D.P. until well into the 20th century.
Although G.D.P. numbers still aren’t perfect — they are subject to periodic revisions, for example — the basic problem has been largely solved. So why not issue shares in G.D.P. now?
Such securities might help assuage doubts that governments can sustain the deficit spending required to keep sagging economies stimulated and protected from the threat of a truly serious recession. In a recent pair of papers, my Canadian colleague Mark Kamstra at York University and I have proposed a solution. We’d like our countries to issue securities that we call “trills,” short for trillionths.
Let me explain: Each trill would represent one-trillionth of the country’s G.D.P. And each would pay in perpetuity, and in domestic currency, a quarterly dividend equal to a trillionth of the nation’s quarterly nominal G.D.P.
If substantial markets could be established for them, trills would be a major new source of government funding. Trills would be issued with the full faith and credit of the respective governments. That means investors could trust that governments would pay out shares of G.D.P. as promised, or buy back the trills at market prices.
...
The United States government is highly unlikely to default on its debt, but even this remote possibility would be virtually eliminated by trills, because the government’s dividend burden would automatically decline in tough times, when G.D.P. declined.

Obviously, this is an indirect tax: you give the money to the federal government, but the payment is linked to the size overall economy, both public and private.
You also create substantial barriers to GDP restatements, something that the BEA did not long time ago (they went back quite a few years).
Most importantly, this is a one-time capital infusion. The government will not benefit from the secondary market. You get the money today, the next generations will be paying for you, so they will have to repeat the cycle with gusto.

But hey - there isn't a problem a market cannot sole, right? /snark off

no_vaseline wrote:

It appears we can assume they will continue the status quo (buy US debt to balance their trade surplus) uninterrupted and in perpetuity. Do they have any other option?

two schools - they have no option and as the largest creditor of the United States they have the problem. The other school which I am sure the Chinese think themselves in - by being the largest creditor to the United States they are immune from any US action and in a couple of years will be able to dictate to the United States. Is any American President prepared to have US interest rates shoot to 10% . ? We may have the biggest military in the world but the Chinese have the ability to extract tremendous economic pain. Maybe not today but certainly within 10 years. The Indian economy will grow by over 7% this year- not much different than the go go years- I think they have demonstrated the advantage of a domestically driven economy- I think the Chinese will learn from that. And when they do look out.

The only true single currency that can go it alone is the US. That is why it is the world reserve currency. The EU would spin off into obstinate basket cases and resentful responsible nations. US housing policy writ large. The Japanese are too small and too export oriented. The Chinese cannot turn inward as their economy (and society!) is not oriented towards providing what their billion people need/want. India is not a world player and never will be until the Pakistan issue is resolved and I know of no one who thinks that ends well. Oil exporters, political instability papered over with oil revenues. Currency crisis is their real external enemy and for all their bluster they know it. Look only to Venezuela for what happens when oil revenues fall short of social goals.

For all its faults there are reasons the USD holds its precarious position. The Chicomms think they can hitch their boat to the USD and ride out the storm. No. Time they understood it is better to cast off than be cut loose.

crazyv wrote:

I was talking to somebody well connected in the DC circles who made the observation that it was politically more feasible to hand out huge amounts to the banks rather than have the government take them over. i.e. its ok to nationalize the liabilities of the banks but not the assets - because that would be attacked as too much government involvement!!!

I suppose that by "politically" you acceptable to lobbyists, right?
I do not recall any grassroot support for TARP

josap wrote:

China has stock piled allot of raw materials. How long could they keep their people producing without selling to the US market? Could they just stockpile the finished goods? Wait for everyone else to implode? While dumping dollars and not buying our debt, they might be able to ride out the strom.

Hu knows...

MrM wrote:

Shiller said: paying shares in national “profit,”

What profit is he talking about? I see debt. I don't see profit.

MrM wrote:

The United States government is highly unlikely to default on its debt, but even this remote possibility would be virtually eliminated by trills, because the government’s dividend burden would automatically decline in tough times, when G.D.P. declined.

And yet nobody talks exporting labor... We start shipping millions of poor people and prisoners to China and they become free labor. For each year someone works, China forgives $50 of our debt to them.

Seems like we played in this market years ago.. something ended it... I can't remember....

Thank you and I agree. That little hybrid experiment didn't work out very well. I do not underestimate China or dismiss them very easily. They have proven over and over again over their very long history that they are patient and ruthless. If the Chinese people ever rise up...oh my for everyone.

Speaking of rebellions/revolutions. I watched Dr. Zhivago again for the millionth time over the course of my life. I hadn't seen it in a long while. Everytime I see that film, it says something different to me, depending on where I am in my life. I think here in the US we mistakenly believe that bad things do not happen in this nation on that scale and in mass human strife. We've come out of a historic time of prosperity (albeit much was false in at least the last 2 decades) and social quiet relatively speaking. When I look at human history in its entirety, that is when my doom-meter goes off the scale. I hoped I would not live to see what is inevitable, maybe I'll get by yet. Its times like these I really appreciate my doggie friends the most.

Bond Girl wrote:

If there is a change in sentiment, we may feel it sooner rather than later

I think an early test in the New Year will be when the Obama administration submits the new arms control treaty with Russia for ratification. If that breaks down along party line votes I think it will be conclusive proof that the United States in ungovernable. I think the first fallout will be in the bond market as any ideas of future tax increases to fill the budget hole disappear. I think it is quite likely that the stock market will also tank - as higher interest rates reduce the allure of stocks and the ability of the government to support the economy.

"The only true single currency that can go it alone is the US. That is why it is the world reserve currency. The EU would spin off into obstinate basket cases and resentful responsible nations."

A few years back even reaching euro-dollar parity was "out of question", according to Americans. Germany is the biggest exporter on this planet with mere 90 million people. Americans cannot even beat that with more than three times more people. US exports are only twice of "basket case" Italy's (60 million people). Now that shows the real weakness of US economy, meaning CONSUMPTION based economy.

The bigger they are, the harder they fall.

MrM wrote:

That's the Bear Stearns and Lehman funding logic - because the default is highly unlikely in the near term, your short-term borrowing costs are very low. This approach works fine until rather suddenly it stops working.

For a little while, you could just print money.

Oh wait!

It was the most complicated of options. Doing nothing wasn't an option but what was done because of the shrill who did understand was the worst of options. The solution was much easier than what was done only there would have been massive losses by those in powerful positions, politically and on Wall Street. Nationalization of the banks temporarily, then sold off to private sector while restoring banking structure. Radical, yes but it was a solution that was never considered in reality and would have been a less costly remedy particularly to taxpayers and those who HAVE been net savers/owners. idiots. This in my view shows me who owns DC in no uncertain terms and it isn't voters, this is no longer a republic or democracy.

Now that shows the real weakness of US economy, meaning CONSUMPTION based economy.

It's hell being a fungus.

and those payday loan operations are owned through a bunch of holding operations (to making tracking it back harder for ADD types) by the TBTF...so sweet (for them).

Lookie here what I found in Wiki

Since June 2000, Gregory has been married to former federal prosecutor and former Fannie Mae executive vice president, general counsel and corporate secretary, Beth Wilkinson

Nanoo-Nanoo wrote:

and those payday loan operations are owned through a bunch of holding operations (to making tracking it back harder for ADD types) by the TBTF...so sweet (for them).

Won't it be nice for TBTF when we are all using payday loans and check cashing store fronts. Great profits and only the very wealthy will have acess to banks. Banks can then become the investment houses they once were and the little people can get reamed at the strip mall money stores.

Uncle Wimpy replacing Uncle Sam.

Dateline Jan 22nd, 2012 - In Washington D.C. today President Dawg announced the formation of "Bank of The United States" as successor to the failing Federal Reserve system. US citizen holders of Federal Reserve Notes (commonly called money) are urged to arrange a currency exchange as soon as possible as the presently fixed 10:1 rate cannot be guaranteed. Foreign holders are encouraged to make arrangements with their respective governments for pooling FRN scrip as negotiations for repatriation swaps will be held at that level. Thank you America. Thank you world.

Bond Girl wrote:

Shiller's idea is somewhat similar to Sumner.

My first reaction was that instead of trillionths we sell the smaller denominated quadtrillionths. Quatloos for short and then we could all be enThralled. We already do this, they are called bonds. He's just proposing protection against variations in the economy, those are called TIPS. He just wants to cut out the middleman of overt taxation. IOW, less transparency as to our collective debt. Bad, very bad idea.

...while the boys are waiting for that a big asteroid will hit them from behind.

Perhaps a comet.

lol...What to do Wen property prices bubble on Hu? sorry, couldn't resist.

Wen Says China Will Cool Property Prices, Stand Firm on Yuan - Bloomberg.com

“Property prices have risen too quickly in some areas and we should use taxes and loan interest rates to stabilize” them, Wen said today in an online interview with the official Xinhua News Agency.

.....

China’s property prices climbed last month at the quickest pace since July 2008, adding to concern that record lending and inflows of money will inflate asset bubbles in the world’s fastest-growing major economy. Central bank adviser Fan Gang said Nov. 18 that the nation needs to be on alert for stock, real-estate and commodity bubbles as global capital flows into emerging economies.

.....
“It’s difficult to see how serious the government is about cooling the property market,” said Andy Xie, former Morgan Stanley chief Asian economist. “The issue isn’t about introducing new measures but enforcing existing measures.”

In November, real-estate prices in 70 major cities rose 5.7 percent from a year earlier, compared with a 3.9 percent increase in October.

China should anticipate that inflation may appear and that the government will keep consumer-price increases within a “reasonable range,” Wen said. The government will also maintain a “moderately loose” monetary policy and a “proactive” fiscal policy, he said.

End of Deflation

Consumer prices climbed 0.6 percent in November from a year earlier, snapping a nine-month run of deflation.

“China will keep its loose stance at least in the first half of next year as inflation is expected to stay within tolerable levels,” said Shen Minggao, chief economist for Greater China at Citigroup Inc. “There won’t be significant changes, to maintain policy stability, but some industries with excess capacity have seen credit tightened.”

.........

dryfly wrote:

Also - on a side note - you think maybe this year's holiday 'sales report' form China Inc. to the politburo was delivered & precipitated this? I do. So much for the meme China can live w/out the 'export trade'.

China has some internal political issues, but the shift of power from West to East seems to be well under way. Capital flows tell the tale. The international trade system needs another overhaul, but what the new system will look like is hard to determine.

Mr Slippery wrote:

China has some internal political issues, but the shift of power from West to East seems to be well under way. Capital flows tell the tale. The international trade system needs another overhaul, but what the new system will look like is hard to determine.

Don't need any of that [Int'l Trade System] - the forex & comex will take care of the problem. And actually - it is now.

And as for the Ascendancy of the East... isn't happening until their currencies reflect it - until then they are still giving it away to us a la colonialism... just a different form of peasant servitude.

One million airport security jobs.
One million loan mod work out specialists hired by F & F.
One million home care workers to keep our aging population in their homes.
One million road construction workers, bridge fixers (we really do need this work done)
One million teachers assitances to help with over crowded class rooms.

Oh JD...I need some Pepto after that. Props to Palin? For what pray tell?

Bonus Army 1932: WW1 Vets want money due to them in a dozen years.

Bonus Army 2012: Consumers want S.S. money due to them in a dozen years.

Luckily for all of us, the transcript isn't available yet, but it was ugly.

One million teachers assitances to help with over crowded class rooms.

Are class rooms really crowded?

MrM wrote:

The sad thing is that even this proposal will not recover all the jobs lost so far in this recession

True, However, there would be suport for those jobs. Payroll, suppliers, dry cleaners, micro waveable luches.

Rob Dawg wrote:

compared with 0.7 hectare for every American.

I hope you like corn.

,rad Dawgma,

Despite you thinking that rice is the culprit for the drought in California, please have a look-see tonight, and watch some of the 130,000 almond trees being uprooted by one farmer, because he can't get the water.

Tonight on 60 Minutes~

It's time to open your eyes

Uncle Sam devalues the Yuan by proxy? Maybe Ben doesn't raise rates as soon as I expect.

China wants runaway inflation and cratering t bills while the rest of the world front runs the most obvious trade in the world? Best of luck with that. USD could run down to 50 in that case.

SNAFU wrote:

We also need jobs that reduces our trade deficit; don't we?

Yes. Those jobs have to be private sector. The jobs I listed could easily be WPA types of jobs.

Juvenal Delinquent wrote:

Despite you thinking that rice is the culprit for the drought in California,

DO NOT TELL ME WHAT I THINK.

I think Central Valley rice growing is poor management policy and no longer appropriate use of an increasingly constrained resource.

Now, will you stop this nonsense or may I join in the personal attacks by telling all the world what YOU think?

dryfly wrote:

Rob Dawg wrote:

Maybe the wasteful growing of rice in the Central Valley is such a bad idea.

Central valley should be growing what it was before Mulholland - wheat.

Also - in much of the Midwest - Nebraska, Kansas, Dakotas - where heavily irrigated land was switched from wheat to corn 50-60 years ago... its going back to wheat now again as irrigation costs sky rocket.

One of the few places it will still make sense to raise rice in the US for as long as I can see - Arkansas 'delta'. They had 80 inches of rain this past year - broke a 150 year record. I travel there on business and it looks every bit like they had 80 inches.

josap wrote:

jobs that can't be sent out of the country.

IMHO, trying to artificially create jobs using debt money may be far worse policy than straight out protectionism.

SNAFU wrote:

Farmers markets are a big hit in certain parts of the country. In the past two years, I personally have bought all my vegetables and fruits in the local farmer's market. If they really caught on all over the country, that could add another million jobs in the farming sector.

Ya - I go to the markets near us. The people there don't get rich but I think more than a few are learning you don't get rich in the regular cash-job economy either - especially not working at a big box.

My anecdotal evidence? Last spring I got a call from a guy who grow lamb. I used to buy from him all through the 90s. Then he disappeared. I asked him where he went to - said 'construction'... quit raising lamb & farming and went to work for one of the big builders as a contractor... he can't get work so he's back to farming & raising lamb. I bought the last one he had and told him to put me back on the list for next spring - if he has one I'll get a call [probably around April or May].

I think we'll hear a lot of stories like that.

SNAFU wrote:

Farmers markets are a big hit in certain parts of the country.

I love fresh foods. Spent part of my growing up on a small ranch.

But the prices here at the Farmers Markets are at least twice that of the stores. Cause they think they are "special".

SNAFU wrote:

that could add another million jobs in the farming sector.

and wipe out the grocers

Shipping luggage is the only way to go. Fed Ex Ground preferred. Less expensive than checking luggage.

volker the viking wrote:

and wipe out the grocers

Won't happen, we want our summer produce in the winter. We are very spoilt when it comes to the availabily of food. An those using food stamps have to shop at the grocers.

dryfly wrote:

Local market producers are FAR more labor intensive and have much less 'capital' behind them. I bet they lose money at only 2:1 premium.

I fully agree.

But with so many families cutting expenses they will shop at the big box stores to save money.

We need jobs that do not require more then simple start up subsidies, not for ever support. There should be no job destruction to create a new job.

Lobbyist Ben Dover wrote:

We need jobs that do not require more then simple start up subsidies, not for ever support. There should be no job destruction to create a new job.

Clearly a government regulation is required. If you hire someone, you are responsible for them and their family forever.

Az has a limited amount of food grown here. So we ship most food in.

What we have that is local doesn't match the quality of imported foods for allot of items. My POV is, of course, based on my suroundings.

I too have been to the Arkanas Delta where rice is grown and mosquitoes are as big as small birds. Water, water as for as the eye can see covering rice.
My part of the country still has water coming out of the hills with fresh water streams every where.

lol...dogs are amazing. I have a husband that will eat nearly anything too...so I'm safe. What kind of dog do you have josap?

Rob Dawg wrote:

China faces a squeeze worse than currency. Feeding 1.35 billion people

And a rapidly aging population.

SNAFU wrote:

How much longer before we see tariffs?

when there is a successful case in front of the WTO??

JimPortlandOR wrote:

One of the alternatives not planned as contingency: Under what circumstances would the US withdraw from the WTO, and renounce/renegotiate bi-lateral and multi-lateral trade agreements?

Armed conflict

"I generally like to tell people we've taken out a massive ARM to pay for the crisis. An imperfect metaphor, but whatever."

It's effective. US gov'ts at all levels have been playing the borrow-short spend-long policy. That trade has already blown up for muni's. Shouldn't be long now for The Feds.

Maury the Credit Responsibility Panda wrote:

he purpose of Afghanistan and Iraq is to hold back China's development. Get your chain of causality straight.

Sorry if I am being dense, but you lost me there.

"everyone (many at least) love to type bold predictions with date certain specific outcomes"

Me neither. I thought the bubbles HAD to pop in '98 and '04. The ability to keep the game going just amazes me.

The Chinese are eventually to discover the back hand of world market participation. All those letters of credit denied? The long term purchase contracts for oil made at $147 the reneged upon? The futures contracts gone wrong and unfilled? Those are the people with longer memories and more patience than even the Middle Country.

Sorry for the OT but never the less, market is closed..and josap got me started.

I had a dog once that would chew on rocks, he would clack them around in his mouth..another very large dog that ate an entire towel once and a disposible razor and lived to tell about, he would also help me 'landscape' by pulling out entire bushes and deposit them at the back door for me..lol.....now I have a Lhasa Apso (I can't chase labradors around anymore). I was worried about a smaller dog, I adored bigger dogs and had 3, one was a whopping 145lbs and not fat. He was a gentle guy but horribly mischievous. Even my all male husband who I worried wouldn't like a small dog totally adores this one. She is a big dog in small package and scary smart.

Be warned, Lhasa's are not for first time dog owners..they are wonderful but 'head strong' and like I said...smart and 'calculating'. She is my sunshine and joy in life, I'm lucky that I am able to have her.

Like I said above - this has little to do about the US - the memo from Wen was to the EU & [rest of] BRICs - in effect telling them to shut up or put up... "we are now done w/ the US and coming your way - happy new year."

Freego Walkabout wrote:

And they have had Sun Tzu's the Art for more than two centuries. Let's not be lulled into any false sense of superiority.
just a small point

Well, yes though you could say more than two millenia for a bit more effect...
For those interested, Sun Tsu wrote The Art of War 

"Okay. Bring 'em on. And the two weeks they are at sea, bringing their force to bear what will happen?

Or this, the two long years bogged down in the Khyber Pass losing millions of lives, what then?"

They need to take Kamchatka. May take a turn or two, but stack up all the armies there, then come across through Alaska. I usually take N.A. from the south, but it's a viable strategy.

ROFLOL!

Rob Dawg wrote:

...the memo from Wen was to the EU & BRICs - in effect telling them to shut up or put up... "we are for now done w/ the US and coming your way - have a nice holiday."

There. Fixed that for ya.

Exactly.

Comrade Misean is Dope wrote:

May take a turn or two, but stack up all the armies there

Let's play Global Thermonuclear War! (not)

Blackhalo, the US dollar is still the reserve currency, so Hu can create yuan electronically, sell them for dollars to depress the yuan, then take those dollars and buy food and natural resources all over the world! Hu's not kidding me?

ps...wake up china loves dollar devaluation

cause the yuan is pegged to the dollar

China would definitely co-opt Mexico and their ports using the desperate population there as cannon fodder in the first waves. San Diego is indefensible and we lack their callous disregard for human life and won't do what's necessary to deny them Baja to Santa Barbara.

Me? I like to sit tight in the Mexico to Argentina squares with all my armies until all the other nations decimate themselves then sweep into Africa and collect the bonus armies for holding those two continents. Either that or Australia and a march across Eurasia.

mock turtle wrote:

ps...wake up china loves dollar devaluation

cause the yuan is pegged to the dollar

Except when they buy metal, oil or food. Kinda sucks then - especially since they also price low in dollars. Price low in a weak currency means you have less then poor purchasing power. Feed a billion plus with that Wen you can.

t r orwell wrote:

then take those dollars and buy food and natural resources all over the world!

China has been stock piling raw materials and oil for a couple of years now.

A nice sustainable oceans international agreement imposed on China. A world trade agreement on food as exempt from free trade regulations. A sudden interest in testing Chinese manufactured items for safety and efficacy. Copyright and IP issues being enforced.

The worst thing China can do and they seem oblivious to it is focusing combined international attention on their practices.

Contrary to the popular believe tariffs and quotas are used worldwide in international trade. It is just USA dropped or lowered most of them with Asia and that created huge trade deficits. Without exports to USA China's international trade would be IN BALANCE.

EU and others DO watch their trade balances like hawks and endlessly renegotiate quotas and tariffs with others. Americans dropped their shields with East and expected Asia to do the same.

Nothing like that with EU-US trading negotiations, that is a regular horse show, tit-for-tat and then some. No favors asked nor given there.

The question becomes for Hu to decide if the rate of his accumulation of natural resources and food for his people is faster than the rate of his currency and the dollar's decline while Hu leads his country in global exports. I think Hu thinks he can have it all.

dryfly wrote:

Bring back basic home economics - should be a requirement for accepting food stamps.

Should be required in early high school. Just like it used to be in my day, yes I'm old. One asignment was to make a meal for 4, for .50 each. We got some good meals in class.

How many dinners for 4 can you get from 1 whole chicken?

"How many dinners for 4 can you get from 1 whole chicken? "

Bonus question:

"How many joints are in a lid?"

I'm convinced it will be the forex that takes us down. More likely than war.

Deficit spending will take years to have it's toll. I just told my 14 y/o daughter that she'll be paying for all of this backasswards fiscal policy. She no likey.

Comrade Misean is Dope wrote:

"How many joints are in a lid?"

Fattys or not?
Clean lid?

Xtra-bonus essay question:

Relate the number of joints in a lid to the number of meals in a whole chicken.

Comrade Misean is Dope wrote:

"Fattys or not?"

See xtra bonus essay above.

Didn't you guys have Middle Eastern friends? On today's menu it is 'Hash Under Glass'...

Comrade Misean is Dope wrote:

Relate the number of joints in a lid to the number of meals in a whole chicken.

LOL 1 joint to 1 chicken.

Blackwaterwannabe wrote:

You guys are all busted. There will be a knock on your door within thehour.

Nothing personal, need the extra 30 silver after the holidays....

These guys... ... right?

I can't keep up with the stream of comments this am..... coming.... too ... fast ....

But, that is one COOL map website, Volcker!!

yossarian wrote:

But, that is one COOL map website, Volcker!!

looks like an end game risk board, no?

ric wrote:

I'm going to eat the whole thing my damn self!

and you other three can fend for yourselves

By the way, following Volcker's link on the map site.... The US is not the largest army in the world, based on footsoldiers.

But of course it is the largest by actual expenditures...

We're number one. No one is even close to spending what we do. In fact, we spend MORE than ALL the other Top Ten nations combined!

None of this should surprise.

t r orwell wrote:

then take those dollars and buy food and natural resources all over the world! Hu's not kidding me?

But, if they spend those dollars... do they not break the peg?

Rob Dawg wrote- 11:28 am

"Careful readers will note that JD has been unable to come up with the citations he claimed proved I am a liar"

i for one, have never found you to be a liar...wrong sometimes (and more often right) but never a liar !

dryfly wrote:

Bring back basic home economics - should be a requirement for accepting food stamps.

But not for accepting billions in bailout welfare?

No