Quelle surprise.

Ok, on reading that article, the execs were net positive, but
it doesn't say by how much. I mean if they came out 100k or
even 1m ahead, that wouldn't be such a big deal. I suspect
it was way more that that, but. . . maybe not.

....their net pay-offs during this period were substantially positive.

Pffft! As if the sign in front of the dollar sign were ever in question.

War is a racket.

I share your loathing of Paypal.

Do you help Mrs Gnome with the dishes?

Mrs Gnome does most of the cooking and I do most of the cleaning.
It is a partnership afterall.

It appears these executives were incentivized to gamble.

The gambling part has never been in question.
FT's John Cassidy in his book "How Markets Fails" writes how Citi's executive management stayed out of subprime and how Citi's Board pressured the management for being too conservative and not using the shareholder's capital efficiently when everybody was making money in subprime hand over fist, quarter after quarter.
Chuck Prince relented in 2006. His infamous quote about having to dance while the music is playing reflects his understanding of the risks Citi was getting into.
However, the pressure of quarterly earnings was too much to resist.

Energycon,

Perhaps we have the healing of an inventory recession while at the same time the balance sheet recession continues. A small pop in numbers and then the continued grind of the other.

More on Citi

FT.com / Companies / Banks - Citigroup in race to repay bail-out funds

People close to the situation said that unless Citi could launch the capital-raising effort required to pay back Tarp by the middle of next week, it would become practically impossible to do so until after it reports year-end results in mid-January.
Lawyers said it was not technically impossible to raise capital between the end of a quarter and the announcement of results but added that disclosure rules could make it difficult, especially for a company as complex and geographically diverse as Citi.
Citi’s executives have been lobbying Washington to be allowed to repay Tarp, arguing that the bank has cash reserves of more than $240bn and its financial performance is improving. However, Citi’s situation is further complicated by the US government stake.
People close to the situation said the government was willing to co-ordinate a sale of at least part of its stake with Citi’s own capital-raising but the tight timing – and the authorities’ lingering concerns over the bank’s health – might delay that.

The stories of Lehman and Bear will undoubtedly remain in the annals of financial disaster for decades to come. To understand what has happened, and what lessons should be drawn, it is important to get the facts right. In contrast to what has been thus far largely assumed, the executives were richly rewarded for, not financially devastated by, their leadership of their banks during this decade.

Methinks Bear and Lehman were but the opening volley in a protracted war of attrition. If find it presumptive to assume we are anywhere near ready to write the history.

nova wrote:

Perhaps we have the healing of an inventory recession while at the same time the balance sheet recession continues.

Interesting idea, the Dawg was suggesting the reverse might be in play IIRC, we were entering some 'regular' recession space after finding a ledge in the balance sheet recession...but largely similar in concept with respect to some kind of superposition of two recession types...wonder if that could generate both constructive interference and destructive interference (from the interaction of waves in physics) though in this case the constructive would be the bad one!

lawyerliz wrote:

Oh, Spitzer why did you have to fool around?
I guess they would have got him on something

Or a tragic auto accident...

LL,

On hold until spring.

Why can't there be two diffent dynamics? at work inside the economy?

Spitzer is about ready to be caught again in another imbroglio if he keeps it up...

lawyerliz wrote:

Spitzer why did you have to fool around

This guy is just a publicity hound. If you look at his record as AG; he would announce indictments of Wall Street types; which got him a lot of press, but they would almost never bring people to trial, just extract an agreement that the Wall Street type was innocent but paid a fine to get rid of the publicity.

mock turtle wrote:

...woods cut a large swath thru the tall grass

In other words, Woods doesn't mind landing in the rough when he is playing aggressively on the course.

Yajig

yep, but

only when playing on the inter-course

HomeGnome wrote:

War is a racket.

right on.

War is a Racket: The Antiwar Classic by America's Most Decorated Soldier

and OT:
Confessions of an Economic Hit Man

mock,
When you play you pay...Tiger or Spitz...aren't immune to the consequences of playing...

yes usually playing means you pay

but

gotta give south carolina gov sanford credit

so far he appears to have escaped the jaws of the trap

yagij wrote:

but the last half wiped out whatever value I got from the first half

explain why?

As in 'set up'...

executives’ losses on shares during the collapses establish that they did not have incentives to take excessive risks.

Ha ha ha,...a pity it takes so long and so much research to debunk what was obvious from the start.

merchants of fear wrote:

As in 'set up'...

People who aren't doing anything rarely reach the zenith of their chosen occupation. No one has worried to bust Bob in Accounting because we all know he is a dull, bore who only drains the oxygen supply from the rest of us.

The Palin administration may not be as far fetched a scenario as one might think/hope

Palin draws hundreds at Iowa book signing - More politics- msnbc.com
SIOUX CITY - Hundreds of fans of former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin gathered at a bookstore in Sioux City, Iowa, waiting early Sunday morning for Palin to arrive and begin autographing copies of her book, “Going Rogue.”
A few camped in the parking lot overnight for the chance to be at the front of the line when the former Alaska governor entered at about 1:30 p.m., about an hour and a half later than scheduled.

MrM<
Palin/ Beck 2012.

Yet one more news quote - Geithner at his best

Geithner Dismisses Tax on Financial Transactions as Unworkable - Bloomberg.com

In yesterday’s interview, Geithner, echoing some of the banking industry’s reasons for opposing a Tobin tax, said he was concerned it wouldn’t be able to be adopted globally, making it harder to impose. He also noted that the tax may hit less sophisticated investors, instead of the big firms.
“There’s a real risk that retail investors, who’ve got fewer choices, they end up bearing the cost of the tax,” he said.
On another tax issue, Geithner questioned the effectiveness of providing businesses with a $5,000 credit for each new net job they create. Some have predicted the measure could help the economy add as many as 1.5 million new jobs.
“Just to be frank about it, there’s a lot of people in the business community and the academic community who are not confident that that particular proposal would be that powerful,” Geithner said. “But we’re going to keep looking at it.”

palin might not be far fetched

i hear ya

i lost $50 bet twice

bush2 nomination
bush2 election

i was convinced republicans had way better candidates than bush2

made me humble

palin?...i dont put anything past the electorate

You will.
They are the perfect fascist combo.
They are secure in their delusions.

the Palin Administration. What a joke. Can you see her in serious debate with anyone, much less an incumbent President?

barfly<
I can't but many can.
Even the short bus riders get a vote.
I mean what if she is debating a President who was born in Kenya?

barfly wrote:

Can you see her in serious debate with anyone, much less an incumbent President?

I saw George W Bush in debates, so?
For Presidential candidates oratorical skill is more of a liability not an asset

Palin is a flash in the pan. The chance of her being the first woman President is nil.

barfly wrote:

The chance of her being the first woman President is nil.

I hope you are right, I truly do

As a woman I find the idea of her being the first female POTUS nauseating. That being said I don't believe it will ever happen.

I'm still in my music world...

Gietner...

"I want to be a big shot and have nineteen cars.."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6dQgAn_bR8Me Myself and I

Deputies witness recession's toll as evictions increase - San Jose Mercury News

"deputies have been overseeing about 120 to 150 "lockouts'' a month this calendar year, double from 60 to 70 evictions a month last year."

"they haven't made a mortgage payment in more than a year and expect to be evicted — again. 'What's the plan? I don't know,'' Rehila said. 'Mexico, I think.'''

Saw the Beach Boys play in concert in Vancouver 1974 Christmas. Beautfiul City. If I had the money I would relocate there.

Blackwaterwannabe wrote:

Beautiful City.

One of my favorite cities in the world

was in vancouver bc for almost a week in uh ? 86 for the worlds fair

absolutely beeeautifull city back then...hope it still is

EvilHenryPaulson wrote:

It's over priced for buying, but I enjoy renting for now

You are a much smarter man than I, let's pray for another bubble eh?

A question from a long-time renter. We are finally in the position to buy a home for the long-term. We have found a home in a particular neighborhood that we are interested in buying. I have gathered all of the sales from the neighborhood since the development was first built in '92. Plotting these in a time series shows that the median, inflation adjusted price per sqft--neglecting the bubble years--should be $106 but homes are currently selling for $130/sqft. I believe that we can get the home that we are interested in purchasing for $104-$106 per sqft. What I'm trying to decide is whether home prices will undershoot the long-term trendline or slowly converge to the trendline. I used to believe that home prices would undershoot and then recover but with all of the govt. intervention it seems more likely that prices will just slowly converge. Any opinions?

Unlike the captain of a ship, I thought it was well known that the top execs were the first to abandon ship. Of course looting the treasure chest on the way.

Presidents basically seem to be figureheads. They defer to the "experts" of any given field. Don't they mostly do what their "handlers" tell them to do? I don't see why she cannot "deal" with any of those other presidents.

Broke Not Broken wrote:

A question from a long-time renter. We are finally in the position to buy a home for the long-term.

No one knows. Certainly enough actions will be taken to prevent a collapse in home prices from their current levels. But will they stay level or decline slowly for 5-10 years? I think large increases are also unlikely, just because that would make it hard to justify continuing massive price supports for the market.

barfly wrote:

What's she gonna do, pout?

If her actions in Alaska are any indication: when the going get tough, she'll quit.
.
Saw a shirt the other day that said, "Palin: 2012-2014 1/2 Traditional Values; Untraditional Commitment."

Five high-ranking executives at American International Group Inc. said last week they were prepared to quit if their compensation is cut significantly by the insurer's government overseers, according to people familiar with the matter.

The threat is the latest in the running fracas between AIG and the government's compensation czar, Kenneth Feinberg, who is charged with setting pay limits for top executives at companies receiving the most federal bailout money.

The AIG executives who notified the company they were prepared to resign include its general counsel, Anastasia Kelly, and the heads of some of its largest insurance businesses.

No one knows. Certainly enough actions will be taken to prevent a collapse in home prices from their current levels. But will they stay level or decline slowly for 5-10 years? I think large increases are also unlikely, just because that would make the massive price supports for the market hard to continue justifying.

I'm in the panhandle of Florida. I am inclined to believe that the big price drops are done but that prices continue to slowly sink for the next 5-10 years while the govt. and banks do everything they can to keep it "orderly." Especially true for areas that have a high military/govt employee base.

mock

Thanks Surprised no one else made one yet

patientrenter wrote:

Where will they go for more money?

With the USG owning 79.9% of their stock (right?), they sure are cheeky with their shareholder. Would that act that way if Soros or Icahn owned that much of the company?

Broke Not Broken wrote:

Any opinions?

I think real estate taxes are going to go up and up.

If you're in Florida, you're probably year(s) ahead of the rest of the country. If it's cheap on a price : income or a buy vs rent basis, and you have the financing today then go for it. Don't expect a return on investment beyond inflation over the ownership lifetime though, or to be able to sell for a few years.

If you're really nervous, use FHA loans with nothing down (after tax credit and kickbacks from the sellers / RE agents).

Speaking of education:

The Hacker Speaks of God

• the lifetime of a temp is the lifetime of the env that created it.**

We fought for decades, ever since I can remember, to carry around
the env pointer with every value. Those were the asylum years.

Object permanence

The power of scaffolded
instruction.
All the better
To hang you with.
Cognitive Factors in Motivation--This course is designed to enable candidates to:
Wise decisions rely on good research
A theory is an integrated set of concepts and principles that explains a particular phenomenon
A radio broadcast is an unguent ghoul of dogbites and witches that howl a bullish argument.

It’s a stretch, of course. Fallen arches and ass pimples keep you out of a lot of fun stuff. Later you pay the price and then collect. Oh. How you collect. With one eye on the bounty, the other one on the road, you saw the cop way before any of us. Good evening, sir. Good evening, officer. That’s the last we heard him say, although the D.A. assured us he’d squealed for hours right before the hanging. But that’s water, as they say, under the bridge.

Assessment should occur in other contexts as well
Playground, field trips, extracurricular activities, etc….

Water on. Water off. A bit much at times but hardly detectable. Individual has gone through a period of moratorium and has emerged with a commitment to a career and belief system. Crackpot theory, I say. Compared to reinforcement, punishment conveys practically no information to the organism

Learn and use students’ names as soon as possible
Interview each student personally

Encourage occasional fantasy and make-believe—this is good. Just say no, however.

They may not see relevance or long-term payoff of work—this is bad. There’s a war going on.

There is no quiz for this chapter. I trust you recognize the value of reviewing this content. I don’t get paid enough for any of this.

Give students a sense of control
Give students control
Give students a sense
give

what is broken, say so. As always, as again

EHP

Thanks for sharing your opinion, I value it highly as I do many of the commentors here.

There is only one house in particular that we are interested in, mainly because it is a neighborhood that we couldn't normally afford. What adds an interesting twist to it is that the owners are Germans (in Germany) so price is also dependent on the USD - Euro exchange rate. I don't know if this helps or hurts us. If the dollar drops they may feel pressured to sell it before it drops further, while if the dollar rises we can offer less but they get the euro # they are looking for.

How could anything bad happen with so many banking regulations?

josap wrote:

tg wrote:
I think real estate taxes are going to go up and up.
Along with city, state taxes, with additional increase in fees of all sorts.

I agree but as a renter they'll just get passed along to me as well. By the way, I suck at quoting/posting properly as I don't post often so please excuse my lack of netiquette.

Don't think the exchange rate matters. It will be diffrant between contract acceptance and close of escrow date.

What matters is value and your future ability to afford the house. What would happen if you had a lower income, the air conditioner breaks, etc. Is the payment less than you could rent the same property for? And really, if you want the house for a real home that has value as well.

Broke Not Broken wrote:

What adds an interesting twist to it is that the owners are Germans (in Germany) so price is also dependent on the USD - Euro exchange rate. I don't know if this helps or hurts us.

There are many the would disagree, but I think the USD is scheduled for a nice rally and the markets for a nice sell-off imminently. If that starts happening, you will probably get some good advice on the right level to exchange currency at in these comments. You could also use your knowledge of future risks and warn them if they don't sell to you now, they will find it harder later when Florida increases property taxes as one idea (state deficits @ Error — Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

mock turtle wrote:

as for the dollar...pfffftttt

Drug Cartels agree:

International drug cartels have abandoned the US dollar for high denomination euros to launder millions in illegal profits, Europol has revealed. The gangs no longer use $100 bills because €500 notes – the largest denomination of euro – take up less room when transporting large amounts of cash across the world.

Euros become currency of drug cartels |
The Observer
.
Even the black market doesn't want to deal with the USD!

Because every once in a while you need comic relief:

Labor Dept: Available Labor Rate Increases To 10.2% | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

Good night, all

thank you, blonderengel. I'm not sure what it means, but I love it anyway, as I do all your stuff.

josap wrote:

I think real estate taxes are going to go up and up.
Along with city, state taxes, with additional increase in fees of all sorts.

I think they'll "try." I know it isn't going to work. I have a real concern that the kinds of real estate taxes that will be imposed will cause millions of high LTV homemoaners to reevaluate their reasons for hanging on. Building an additional percent per year into the ROI for a low equity house won't work. You'll see reduced gross revenue and the old tired arguments about Laffer will rage.

The author acknowledges that the existing city that he wishes to preserve was the product of essentially the same real estate development process he is criticizing for creating the new, higher density landscape. I think that there will always be tension between those who want to preserve what exists and those who want to re-develop.

rosethorn wrote:

I think that there will always be tension between those who want to preserve what exists and those who want to re-develop.

Especially since the two parties aren't the same. If I want to help change my neighborhood, then I don't see where the conflict will be as much of a problem. If I want to evict people out of their neighborhood to remold it in my imagination's image, then the problems usually appear.

Broke Not Broken wrote:

good points

You might also want to examine whether you are trying to fulfill two vastly different functions with one purchase. Are you purchasing a home or an investment vehicle? If a home, then the primary consideration is whether you can afford it; if an investment, what will it return? A home is a long term purchase in somewhere to live, and what you in particular want; an investment is not what you want, but what can you sell easily.

rosethorn,
oh I think that has to do with a big fight that happened over a proposed freeway through the heart of downtown, which as it turns out would not have raised surrounding property prices but would have benefited a few at the expense of the incumbent many
the author goes on to argue for a subway instead of the freeway in order to incrementally work with what is already there instead of trying to rebuild the city around a freeway. so I don't think that is in conflict with earlier arguments

Broke Not Broken wrote:

converge to the mean or undershoot before convergence?

Good luck. Real estate is so local that no one can say what will happen to your neighborhood. In general, real estate bottoms last years,..so if it's important to you to buy at the bottom, wait a few years.

Bet you don't like that scenario, huh?

sdtfs wrote:

Bet you don't like that scenario, huh?

LOL, no not really. We walked away from a house contract in 2003, leaving our earnest deposit behind mainly because of the discussions on CR and inspection of the property appraiser's records which clearly showed the bubble formation. It's been a long wait and the prospect of waiting another 2+ years is not exciting.

We walked away from a house contract in 2003...

You're located in California?

yagij wrote:

Then I guess the re-developers are right.

Well, they are right in that they use the correct method to get what they want.
Right, as in dong the right thing, not so much.

josap wrote:

So the question is "How long will you live in the house and what do you want the future value of the house to provide?"
When will you sell and how much profit do you need and for what purpose?

Ok, call me naive but the hope is that we don't sell. I'm 37. We want a nice home that we can pay off by the time I'm 55 and would feel comfortable living in if it was our last house. My mom bought her last home when she was about my age thinking that one day she would trade-up. Well that day never came and she's still in the same house.

Broke Not Broken wrote:

My mom bought her last home when she was about my age thinking that one day she would trade-up. Well that day never came and she's still in the same house.

Ok,back slowly away from the unrational, totaly emotional, nonreason for buying the house you want now instead of starting out in a lesser property.

Can you afford the house? Can you afford the house with lower income? Will you be happy in the house even if the values goes down by 10%, 20%? Will you have savings after closing escrow? Do you have any retirement savings or do you want house equity to provide retirement funds?

"The fake buyers could also offer a similar price, but with all kinds of stipulations and concessions to make it undesirable. Your offer will be relatively good, which will make the investors feel happy about selling to you."

I hope you've got a good lawyer.

I don't understand the love for Spitzer. Look at what he did with Marsh McClennan. He had the old regime fired (basically because he didn't like Hank Greenberg and therefore wanted to ruin Jeffrey Greenberg as well) and then had an old friend and mentor installed as the new chief at MMC . Whatever the wrongdoings Spitzer uncovered, surely using his position as NY AG to install an old friend as the new chairman at MMC should raise eyebrows. Especially when that old friend had been paying Spitzer. The new chairman of the company ran it into the ground before finally leaving in 2008. Cherkasky got over $7,000,000 for his golden parachute . I wonder how much ended up in his old friend's Spitzer's pockets? Spitzer's just another crook working in the government, looking to get all he can for hiumslef and his friends.

DISCLOSURE: I worked as an actuary for Mercer, an MMC subsidiary, from 2000 to 2003. I've got a good friend who still works for Mercer. I'm told it has become a really poor place to work since Spitzer did his improvements.

mp wrote:

It's illegal as hell.

If the offer is accepted, then the sale will be made. It's a real offer, unlike the invention of a fake bidding war.

Treasury Forecasts Smaller Loss from TARP

Bear Stearns and Lehman Execs cash in,

heads I win, tails you lose.

Know your enemy, it aint the Taliban.

Tomorrow you're going to wake up and go to work in the hopes you can afford some nice things for your family. Tomorrow these executives are going to wake up, play golf and laugh that you are an economic slave.

Pitchforks and torches.

Believe whatever you want.

If a seller finds out that you engineered multiple offers and he can show that cost him, you're in for a world of hurt if he decides to go after you. That's the way it works for every state I've ever operated in, including California.

The same thing applies to sellers.

And beware, if a realtor finds out what you're doing they are obligated to report you.

mp
It's NOT ILLEGAL. Buyers conceal their identities all the time. The offers are real, and will be executed if chosen.
More than likely, the representing realtor will trash whatever offers they don't like. But since we're talking about submitting multiple bids, how about some other situations from your daily life.
• Grocery store has a sale for 15% off, but the portions are smaller by 30% (and disclosed as such). Comparisons at work.
• Electronics store stages the TV they expect to sell you, next to a comparable but higher end TV which is 4x the price. Comparisons at work.
• Clothing store has a 20% off sale, after raising prices 15% for the week before the 20% off sale. Comparisons at work.
• Infomercial offers to sell you "$100 worth of value for two easy payments of $20", instead of just "The price is $40". Comparisons at work
• Johnny Walker's label is angled so you spend relatively more time looking at it. Comparisons at work
• You wrap up a present for your wife instead of just dumping it on the table. Comparisons at work
• Bargaining at a market, and have a friend test the waters with a vendor for you first. No police are coming to arrest you.
You are completely misrepresenting the situation.
It does not involve registering fraudulent sales to manipulate comparable prices.
It does not involve representing oneself as an independent judge of current market value.
It does not involve a fraudulent phantom offer.
It does not involve bribing the owner's realtor.
All it does is stage some comparisons that make them feel better about the offer they might accept.
The realtor is there to advise on what is a good or bad offer, that is not the responsibility of the buyer. The investor could just be waiting for an excuse to sell.

while I brought it up, other ways you are manipulated but may not realize:
- drug stores place certain items at certain heights because they sell differently depending on the angle you look at them
- restaurants play music with a faster tempo to make you eat quicker so they can get you out faster
- offices pumping in lilac into the ventilation to make you work faster
- casinos pumping in oxygen to keep you awake
- the famous McDonald's heating their coffee so hot that it would be steaming and give the right image for you to recall the taste of coffee
there are many others, but I will leave it at that for now. Other than the physical ones like the brightness of lighting, odors, etc., they have to do with activating existing connections in your brain or setting the framework for judgment (surprisingly I didn't even bring up most of the media and advertising)