Nemo wrote:

Yeah but employment is a lagging indicator.

So the market tanking in the last 30min of trading... is leading the jobs report?

albrt wrote:

Hey everybody, did you hear the news? Barack Obama is open to any and all good ideas about how to save jobs.

I'm still pissed he said something to the effect of "Universities have to do a better job of training the workforce".

EDIT: Baby crying,

albrt wrote:

the adminstration doesn't currently have any ideas.

Tariffs, 32-hour workweek.

Plenty of ideas, plenty of empirical evidence and analysis.

What the administration doesn't have is men who don't say "yes" to everything.

Gah... I was just about the say that

So.. if unemployment won't peak until 2011, doesn't 10.2% seem a little low, or are we going to start playing silly games with the numbers. eg.
1. If you in a household with a working adult, you're not unemployed you're a DEPENDENT
2. If you're unemployed for more than 3 months, you're part of the core unemployed so shouldn't be included in the figures
3. If you're unemployed for less than a month you're 'transitory employed' so shouldn't be counted.
4. If you're under 21 then you're not unemployed, you're still your parents responsibility

We could go on an on until you get the rate down to only 5%.

~splat

broward wrote:

What the administration doesn't have is men who don't say "yes" to everything.

Particularly at the top... Plenty of yes for the

"Universities have to do a better job of training the workforce"

When did universities get into the "training" business?

Trainwreck wrote:

Or we could just keep bleeding wealth to a totalitarian paranoid regime.

There are some of us here old enough to remember when communism was bad, before they started making cheap shit for Walmart.
~splat

Barack Obama is open to any and all good ideas about how to save jobs.

All I'm coming up with is employing people to make stuff,...and that doesn't pay squat.

That vaguely reminds me of the Alien facesucker.... Lets hope nothing explodes out of Uncle Sam's stomach when we get together for Christmas dinner!

Blackhalo wrote:

Do T-Bills count?

Great idea.

We need to stop mass-printing and digital transfers.

Each bond & bill should be hand-crafted in America by a skilled artisan.

Only when they are backed by the US economy would I count Tbills into the equation. As it stands the productive value of the US economy as a whole has been collapsing. Maybe I am missing a nefarious scheme or two, and in fact our economy is more vibrant then I give it credit.

All I'm coming up with is employing people to make stuff,...and that doesn't pay squat.

It can do, if it's done correctly.

When they educated financial engineers to run the economy's locomotive?

There's a big difference between education and training.

Just saying.

the longest losing streak since the 1930s

The pool of have-nots is growing.

Trainwreck wrote:

Each Tbill passionately infused with the tears of debtors!

Hey, how about a hand-crafted MBS? Think of all the work each one of those would require.

I'll go on the record right now for 185k jobs lost. Just sayin

oh thanks.. it didn't end too well for him
~splat

Many debt instruments are already infused with the tears of debtors...

If you anger a narcissist, expect narcissistic anger in return...you will pay...dearly...better to walk on eggshells around N's...and pretend you like them...

mp wrote:

You folks are going to snark yourselves right into inaction,

"You say you want a revolution..."

"You folks are going to snark yourselves right into inaction"

Tell that to Swift or Payne...really now....

Oh boy! The OTBs gone TU!

NYC’s Off-Track-Betting Seeks Bankruptcy Protection (Update1) - Bloomberg.com

Folks, I've seen this coming for a very long time. I've seen it in my profitability. Where were you then?

Business has got to share with labor. I've said it here many times. Jimmy Goldsmith said it in that 1994 interview.

This thing can work, but the entire regulatory mechanism requires overhaul and people need to wake up and stop believing in all of the sacred cows that have been sold to them.

You folks are in DENIAL.

splat wrote:

I stick it to the man every day

Okay, I have to tell a true story from 1978. As a repair trainee I was paired with Dave, a 25-y-o white guy with an Afro driving a VW Bug. We visit a customer and as we're riding the elevator down, he takes out the emergency phone, cuts the line and puts it in his pocket. We walk to his car, get in and he tosses onto a huge pile of similar phones in his back seat.

I asked him, "What's going on? What are you doing?"

And he says without a thought, "That's my way of getting back at the world".

mp wrote:

You folks are in DENIAL.

I was in denial until about 2002 or so. Since then I've engaged in one helluva self-education in economics, politics, psychology, etc. The truth is ugly, and the future is uglier. I've known we'll hit the wall for 5+ years now, but I have yet to figure out what's beyond that wall.

TJ and The Bear wrote:

but I have yet to figure out what's beyond that wall.

Yes, how does the rack break? Is it tight? Or do we just get a few balls off of the corner?

mp wrote:

You folks are in DENIAL.

With regard to what?

Well, you have begin by accepting the fact that not all trade protectionism is BAD.

You have to accept the fact that not all "free" trade is GOOD.

You have to accept there is a MONSTROUS level of cronyism in government. Third-world-level cronyism.

You have to accept that unionism is not BAD PER SE.

You have to accept that NOT ALL businessmen are crooked.

And you have to accept that Republicans and Democrats alike are COMPLICIT.

I thought the U-3 number came from the household survey?

Can someone verify?

mp wrote:

Well, you have begin by accepting the fact that not all trade protectionism is BAD.

BINGO !

You have to accept the fact that not all "free" trade is GOOD.

BINGO !

You have to accept there is a MONSTROUS level of cronyism in government. Third-world-level cronyism.

Understatement

You have to accept that unionism is not BAD PER SE.

Agreed

You have to accept that NOT ALL businessmen are crooked.

It seems to run the bigger the business the less capable the overall leadership is.

And you have to accept that Republicans and Democrats alike are COMPLICIT.

How do you tell them apart again ?

~splat

mp wrote:

Well, you have begin by...

Right on all counts.

GDD9000 wrote:

I'll go on the record right now for 185k jobs lost.

Put me down for 99.9K

Edit: Also a 'three' for BFF. Just a quick drop in before ...

I'm in for 300k lost but the Birth-Death model adds in 225k, so the headline number is -75k.

Dow up 500 points.

Bank on it.

In denial about how Big the is and how old it is...

no no... going back that far to revisit and rethink all those years hurts my head........ what year was that anyway

Where's AllenM... this is right up his alley:

Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis: Arizona Maxes Out Line Of Credit In Two Weeks Flat

The globalized dot fedgov wants people to work cheap or for next to nothing...

" Well, you have begin by accepting the fact that not all trade protectionism is BAD."

Of course it is. Using force to stop to people from engaging in trade is always bad.

"You have to accept the fact that not all "free" trade is GOOD."

Only if you accept as fact that some robbery is good...I don't, so I don't. Now if you mean MORALLY, well shove it. Your morals are yours; keep them.

"You have to accept there is a MONSTROUS level of cronyism in government. Third-world-level cronyism."

And so the solution is to have these morons use force to do GOOD, like restricting that "BAD" free trade etc...Uh huh...

"You have to accept that unionism is not BAD PER SE."

You mean without the use of force that gov't imposes....sure ok...but that sounds suspiciously like free trade in labor...

"You have to accept that NOT ALL businessmen are crooked."

Any one who claims that is a liar...or they wouldn't eat...

"And you have to accept that Republicans and Democrats alike are COMPLICIT."

Duh?

What ever the # is tomorrow, upward revision to come.

The will take til all is Third World...the Third World Order...

Exactly what can we do about it?

I think the snark is a form of gallows humor. Kinda like the 8th of the 7 stages of acceptance. I have noticed an increase in snark among people I interact with lately. 6 months ago it was anger. Now, it's something darker, more cyncial.

Of course it [trade protectionism] is. Using force to stop to people from engaging in trade is always bad.

So, Misean, you think it a good idea to have army helicopter parts made in China?

The only act that gets a Congressman's attention involves writing them a large check. Anything else is a waste of time.

People are realizing it. If my sample of politically active people I know is anywhere near accurate, I predict record low turnouts in 2010.

The only act that gets a Congressman's attention involves writing them a large check.

Or threatening to write one to his next opponent and pledging to raise money for whoever that might be.

" Well, you have begin by accepting the fact that not all trade protectionism is BAD."

Of course it is. Using force to stop to people from engaging in trade is always bad.

etc.

Thank you very much for your participation. We'll be sure to get back to you if we have any questions.

Legolam and sawing the sheep's leg shorter on one side.

Or threatening to write one to his next opponent and pledging to raise money for whoever that might be.

I did a lot of that in the last six months, some of it very direct and personal. Not clear if it did any good but I am getting fewer fundraising calls.

You can start by calling your Congressman and telling him you're going to vote with your money.

Tell him you're fed up with engaging in "free" trade with currency manipulators.

Tell him you're fed up with being forced to compete with child labor.

EHP: thanks for the link... I think the 'madness' level is rising.

And how will the opponent be any different?

Badger, if people would create enough of a shitstorm, up-and-coming politicians would tap into it.

And very quickly.

hmmm. i was still living in berkeley.... now i live in fairbanks........ as far away as i could get i suppose.

And how will the opponent be any different?

It's a MAD thing. You have to start early in the cycle and threaten a lot. If you get to the point where you are actually giving your money to the opponent at the end of the cycle then you have basically lost.

Still not clear if it works, at least not at the low four figure contribution level where I am.

Still not clear if it works, at least not at the low four figure contribution level where I am.

It doesn't. Obama had to raise $1 billion for his campaign, as did his opponent McCain. That figure doubles every election cycle, so in 2012 each candidate will need a $2 billion war chest.

To raise $2 billion over 4 years, Obama and his Republican opponent each need to raise $1.2 million per day EVERY DAY (weekends and holidays included). Who has that kinda scratch in one place concentrated? Hint: It's not the middle class.

I don't have to tell you things are bad. Everybody knows things are bad. It's a depression. Everybody's out of work or scared of losing their job. The dollar buys a nickel's worth; banks are going bust; shopkeepers keep a gun under the counter; punks are running wild in the street, and there's nobody anywhere who seems to know what to do, and there's no end to it.

We know the air is unfit to breathe and our food is unfit to eat. And we sit watching our TVs while some local newscaster tells us that today we had fifteen homicides and sixty-three violent crimes, as if that's the way it's supposed to be!

We all know things are bad -- worse than bad -- they're crazy.

It's like everything everywhere is going crazy, so we don't go out any more. We sit in the house, and slowly the world we're living in is getting smaller, and all we say is, "Please, at least leave us alone in our living rooms. Let me have my toaster and my TV and my steel-belted radials, and I won't say anything. Just leave us alone."

Well, I'm not going to leave you alone.

I want you to get mad!

I don't want you to protest. I don't want you to riot. I don't want you to write to your Congressman, because I wouldn't know what to tell you to write. I don't know what to do about the depression and the inflation and the Russians and the crime in the street.

All I know is that first, you've got to get mad.

You've gotta say, "I'm a human being, goddammit! My life has value!"

So, I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get up out of your chairs. I want you to get up right now and go to the window, open it, and stick your head out and yell,

"I'm as mad as hell,

and I'm not going to take this anymore!!"

from the movie Network (1976)

⁖

it's the Krakken!!!

old vid mash-up with Orson Welles but his character type of Harry Lime
must populate Goldman all throughout the building (remember that Lime was
selling adulterated penicillin in The Third Man)
YouTube - Goldman Sachs Orientation Film Uses Orson Welles scene in 'The Third Man' to Rationalize Excess

I'm pretty sure most folks here aren't in denial. I know people in denial, and they don't watch Fed Chair confirmation hearings.

Some people know what's going on, and they're pissed. The Left vs Right arguments tend to take a back seat when you start talking economy - that's one nice thing about all this.

Some people know what's going on, and they're pissed.

Well, if you know some, tell 'em to get off their sorry couch-worn asses and start doing something about it.

Start rattling the establishment's cage.

Concur with Speed.

I called over 15 senators yesterday to register my tally as 'no'. Even better than facetime with the rep, get some facetime with the staffer for the finance/banking/business aspects. That's where inroads get made.

For $1,000, you can buy facetime with any Congressman in that august body.

Not just face time - for somewhere between $1K and $2K most of the ones in competitive districts will personally call you and ask you how it's going, starting about a year ahead of the next election.

But they don't particularly like it when you say something negative, and it's not clear whether the things I have to say are sufficiently similar to the things they are hearing from other people.

...get some facetime with the staffer for the finance/banking/business aspects. That's where inroads get made.

Fine, but get some goddamned facetime with SOMEBODY.

That's what makes shit happen.

EHP
Network was written by the great Paddy Chayefsky. he was such a perfectionist that he didn't allow one word to be changed in his scripts. I'm sure even Syd Lumet had to abide by that rule, yes, he had that kind of leverage. Plus, any actor who dared to go off book (improv) well, they'd soon be sent to the Paddy Gulag.

How bout Cape Fear? Good one about how a family is almost destroyed...by a man representing what the system did to him...

If we ever get true campaign finance reform (100% public funding with bans on soft money), things may change. When that day comes, I will believe that a difference can be made.

That day will never come unless YOU do something about it.

YOU and thousands of other YOUs.

Right now, there are millions of pissed off people in this country, who are only now beginning to realize that they've been sold a bill of goods.

TAP INTO IT.

"Particularly competitive" describes about 10% of the House of Reps races.

It's a little more than 10%, but it doesn't have to be your home district. $1,000 to the next district over gets you basically the same treatment. And it's the competitive districts that get all the attention from the party leadership because that's where majorities come from, so once you've got that person's attention you have a chance of getting somewhere.

And it's the competitive districts that get all the attention from the party leadership because that's where majorities come from, so once you've got that person's attention you have a chance of getting somewhere.

Now, WE are getting somewhere.

That's a damned good idea and a hell of a lot better than snarking and whining.

Why doesn't someone here do a Conjure-style thinkpiece on that and figure out who we need to cough help?

The tower of Babel all over again:

Correlation Between the World's Tallest Buildings and Economic Downturns « Alpha Dinar- talking GCC finance

Aww, I have to pay and don't get a vote? Can I bring the shitstorm somewhere else instead?

Will have to consider carefully the opp cost, compared with other select investments, like... SHIPS! There are clearly not enough ships being built, on the water, and those millions of containers are stacking up ready to go everywhere but no sealift.

China Shipbuilding Plans to Raise Up to $2.15 Billion (Update3) - Bloomberg.com

(Wha? No never heard of dry ships. Trade is everywhere and forever. The WTO says so.)

C

Hey, jobs is easy.
You get people to sell stuff, to other people.
Then they get sales commissions, nice slice off the middle with a cut to the nice man who recruited you, and a percentage for the of course.

Then all you have to do is keep the churn high!
Churn, churn, churn.

Increases the "V" - you're done, and the bonuses keep coming.

Trade is everywhere and forever. The WTO says so.

Yeah, well, it may interest you to know that China's state--REPEAT, STATE--construction company has received almost $2 billion in US infrastructure contracts.

So, that means the CHINESE GOVERNMENT is now building infrastructure in the US.

my vote for best quote of the night...

'I stick it to the man every day in a million small, petty, pointless and utterly ineffectual ways..
~splat'

For most, it is easier to procrastinate and to wait for it to become personal. But once it does become personal for most people, it is usually too late.

Well, yChigo, you're probably right.

But, everyone here needs to realize that it's going to get REALLY PERSONAL and REALLY SOON.

Question more short-term, rosethorn, is how did that work out for Korea?!

C

The Chinese government wants locally made components to account for 80 percent of Chinese-made vessels by 2015

They want to be more than just the world's shipbuilder.

They want a blue water navy.

A big one.

Forces in history can build to a point of momentum where they can't be stopped. You want to know how to stop what's happening? Go back to 1980 and re-elect Carter, or better still to 1968 and nominate Gene McCarthy instead of Humphrey.

Do you think the Industrial Revolution could have been stopped circa 1775? How about the rise of the scientific method? The Catholic Church did its best in the latter case and it had more power than any single nation has ever had.

What we here need to do is survive what's coming. Survive the collapse, then survive the coming fascism that tries to hold the collapsing pieces together, and the second collapse that follows it, and then start re-building with a new national ethos.

And that ethos had better have a deep rational foundation, deeper even than the foundation that supported this republic of ours. Because obviously even the Constitution, which to me is one of the greatest written works of all time, could not stand in the way of human greed and deceit.

Times by Max Hastings:
IT is hard to be optimistic about the outcome of President Obama’s troop “surge” in Afghanistan. The additional forces sound large in headlines, but shrink small in the mountains. The commitment is intended as an earnest indication of America’s will. But neither the number of troops nor the timeline that mandates a drawdown in less than two years is likely to impress the Taliban, who think in decades, or for that matter the Afghan people.

Most decision-makers on both sides of the Atlantic now privately believe we are in the business of managing failure, and that is how the surge looks. The president allowed himself to be convinced that a refusal to reinforce NATO’s mission in Afghanistan would fatally weaken the resolve of Pakistan in resisting Islamic militancy. Meanwhile at home, refusal to meet the American generals’ demands threatened to brand him as the man who lost the Afghan war.
<<<<<<<
Obama said the Taliban unlike the Viet Cong are not a broad based popular insurgency in his speech. True. But who would you rather have in power Karzai or Diem?

unirealist wrote:

What struck me profoundly about it was that an awful lot of intelligent, politically-active people saw it coming.

Any recommended reading for those of us who didn't get more than the reader's digest version?

EEngineer, "Citizens", by Simon Schama, is wonderful and accessible and can be bought used pretty cheap.

homedad43 wrote:

Even better than facetime with the rep, get some facetime with the staffer for the finance/banking/business aspects.

Good point there. Why waste time with a figurehead. Instead, address a decisionmaker...

I'm sorry, but I fail to understand the fatalistic attitude of many here.

You folks have got access to the greatest goddamned bully pulpit ever invented, the internet.

If half of you here started blogs addressing these issues, and started linking with one another, you really could raise hell.

I just don't understand it.

unirealist:
I beg to differ. Gene McCarthy would have lost to Nixon. The only thing that made the Nixon/Humphrey battle close was the 3rd party challenge by THAT southern governor. Had Perot not stepped in in '92 Bush would have been re-elected.
I wouldn't call it so much as fascism as I would a neo-feudalism.

I'm old and I'm tired tonight.

not sure I agree with unirealist notion that an awful lot of intelligent, politically-active people saw it coming",
really? do you think in Madame de Stael's salons this was train roaring down the tracks was dominating the conversation. Not only did she know about every important intellectual in Europe but her father was also Necker. ..read Jacques Barzun on the subject for starters...

With all due respect, it's not hard to understand: no one wants to get fired for not being a real Merican. You're probably established enough in your IRL community that people make allowances.

Things are going to have to get worse before they can get better.

mp wrote:

I'm sorry, but I fail to understand the fatalistic attitude of many here.

You folks have got access to the greatest goddamned bully pulpit ever invented, the internet.

If half of you here started blogs addressing these issues, and started linking with one another, you really could raise hell.

I just don't understand it.

Fluffy the Obese Persian Cat wrote:

they don't generate anywhere near the crossover audience you think they do.

The "revolutionary" Internet is concentrated back into Establishment hands now.

And that's how most people want it.

You're watching a slow-motion replay of a diluted Germany circa 1932.
If you're not part of the Plan, you get destroyed economically.
The network of conspiracies and slander in place is far greater than you realize.

Just leaving Tokyo this evening after an absolutely beautiful day. The highways were pristine, the topiary was manicured along the highway to within an inch of its life, and the underemployment was absolutely devistating in its scope.

I worry this is what we have to look forward to, with more potholes and less foliage.

Nah. Just butchered the delivery. I was refering to the "manicuredness" rather than the quantity. I literally saw six guys doing landscaping in one of the parks today. Five were intently monitoring the situation, one had a weed whacker. scary.

Guess everyone has heard Sen Bunning goring Bernanke in the hearing today? ZH and clusterstock are carrying it. Nice closer at about 10min - "your Fed has become the creature from Jekyll Island".

And this supports one of the points earlier, some of the best access points are the fin/banking advisors, liaison staff and speechwriters for the reps in question. Even if not everyone in the room had read Griffin, and only heard the allusion to a dimly-remembered horror movie, it still got a variety of laughs (recognition, nerves, trepidation, for audacity etc) and was memorable in itself.

Yerp futes are home to today. The opens are looking jaggy.

C

/doh, and an hour later he sees the hundreds of comments on this very hearing on CR. Hit F5 on diligence next time...

She's got three kids out of work but still can't see that the problem is lack of work

broward,

There really isn't enough work to go around. We already produce plenty. It's a matter of distribution.

How much oil do we needlessly burn in order to support unnecessary jobs that are not only useless but counterproductive? People need to re-discover free time. A used paper back on the couch or a walk in the park are worth more than a trip to the mall.

broward wrote:

How do we convince the others?!

arrange to have a hooker show up with a PPS and scented oils

sdtfs wrote:

When they educated financial engineers to run the economy's locomotive?

This is why I cannot get on the Warren for Treasury bandwagon - she is and always has been an academic tucked away at places like Harvard Law. Not in favor or alumni of getting the job, but not her either.

Terry wrote:

Stimulus to build homes, condos and office towers and warehouses?

I like my idea better.

broward wrote:

Most people, even now, don't want bad news, much less a prophet of suffering and pain.

this whole e-commerce marketing assumption rings bogus to me, I never bought in, except as it exists as opportunity to generate business locally from local participants plus the occasional lightning strike from an outsider passing through

Are we losing audience here? Is this what the chatter is about?

Would be interesting to notebook how participation tracks with economy, is there an inverse relationship, etc

Most folk glaze over when you speak truth to them. They are on auto. Some will shake out of their depression and stumble over this or many other sites. Then later they nod off again.

broward wrote:

It's often hard to quantify except as a measure of internal satisfaction.

sure the megastore can make it work

I think I have an idea for how to take blogging to the next level.

Or, they will go some political blog and wade in the cesspool to argue their points of self-interest to prop up a pov on hot button issues which increasingly is becoming irrelevant.

I'd love to see some hard statistics on internet traffic, MSM news and information sources on the internet versus blogs.

It cost time and money to participate on the internet. What I think may happen is more people connecting dots after their emotions are drained from becoming unemployed. What will they choose to keep, cable, internet, phone as their finances deteriorate??

The one which serves multi-functional purposes may not win in value-added category. We'll see. I've been around for freaking ever since the days of the BBS and Prodigy. I'm alarmed and increasingly concerned that billionaires are going to limit information flows based on ability to pay. I'm old school, the internet and its functions were free as it serves the purpose of freedoms of thought, news serving a public utility that isn't a concern of corporate controls or interest.

Here, I find intriguing analysis, thought experiments, etc. Here I seek answers to the conundrum we all are either facing now or will face in the not too distant future.

I am a realist however, I don't have the funds or intellectual capital to sell my pov to a politician or popular blog creation. I know I'm a nobody with no power. I think that conclusion that we are all powerless in this Brave New World is increasingly being realized by people who believed the government was acting in their interest, is selected by voters and will listen to their constituents. The people of the USA don't know their place in the world....yet.

volker the viking wrote:

I think I have an idea for how to take blogging to the next level.

Are you being funny?

The real crash was 2001.
What's followed was the Feds attempt to prevent reversal of the long-term interest rate cycle.
Offshore labor dropped costs, which increased demand but at the price of faster market saturation.
Nobody wants to talk about that.

Many companies are gate-keepering by charlatans with a motive of self-preservation, and they filter out objective viewpoints and ideological threats. Libertarians and technology geeks both have heavy ego-investment in ideology. They can not be objective.

All held together by trashing social fabric and the monetary system.
There's a lack of ethical integrity in many areas now.

OMG..that it!

George Costanza = Deep Thought (chess computer) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Who knew?

Juvenal Delinquent wrote:

Potential' is a French word

well, don't we learn a bit when we goggle a google

Hey BSR! wazzup?

and WTF are you going on about?

,rad mp implored us to get involved in the matters political earlier in this thread, but i'd say do just the opposite, as in get them out of your lives as much as is humanly possible.

Sooner than later, the public will turn up the heat on our elected officials, who have no answers to what's going on, and they'll mostly be gone.

The time to get involved is after the smoke clears, and the old guard is no more...

then direct it and correct it.

Methinks he's been drinking some 80 proof fermented moo juice, perhaps?

Nanoo-Nanoo wrote:

the problem is in core beliefs of what progress/innovation is. Ever increasing returns, ever increasing inflation, more complex market systems which hold no value and do not discover value.

Agree with this.
Increasing complexity == increasing risk but shrinking value.
Eventually hits a break-point, which I think was the global trade collapse of last year.

Almost none of the participants understand the risk.
History and impetus says the Feds will print until the cost gets higher than the return.
They will avoid a major failure via printing as long as possible.

....don't mind me volker..........I woke up on the wrong side of the cat-box......

Nanooo..........good definition. Many get the problem, AND, many also are rectifying it in their own way. I and my family dropped out. We are as close to self-sufficiency as possible. JD is the same only with a BIG budget. My family decided that to "fix" the problems was not possible. The corruption is widespread. Let it break and then rebuild - it will be easier. By then the looter-rats will be dead or have disappeared, and the economy will be at a standstill. Perfectly acceptable next step for us.

I'm entitled to my opines too, your opinion is welcome but I will let it stand. It may well be nothing but garbage but I'll own it and eat it and you can discard it and others can do the same.

The time to get involved is after the smoke clears, and the old guard is no more...
What if takes 2 generations for the smoke to clear?
I don't have anything better to offer though.... other than to stay starve the system of its fuel by being anti-consumptive.

Truth be said, it's been a lot of fun and quite the learning experience attempting to make oneself self-sufficient, in times of grave uncertainty such as the situation now before us.

I've learned a lot about myself and my surroundings...

well good on ya Juvie!

no shit, but c'mon man, you might have said the same after just leaving rehab

"December 4, 2009

Wang Xiaoyi, deputy head of China’s State Administration of Foreign Exchange, said China maintained a consistent allocation of its foreign exchange reserves across different currencies, Reuters reported Dec. 4. Wang stated that the weakening of the U.S. dollar will be a long-term trend but China doesn’t see big fluctuations in the near term. He added that China is not making any big adjustment in its management of foreign exchange reserves, and all operations are in line with existing “forex” management goals."

Rehab is for quitters, not my style.

Me too, but for those still stuck in debt, in large cities, like in the last great depression, they will suffer most. Its a huge challenge to become self-sufficient, in fact, I'm not sure without a large family one can actually subsist entirely independently now. It is subsistence living. No man is an island as the trite saying goes. That still doesn't mean ignoring the things one can do. First on that order is removal of debt, ownership of as much as possible and then preparing for what will be challenges. It scare the hell out of me, I know that the world operates on credit literally. If that freezes, then the fallout will be profound.

Its a huge challenge to become self-sufficient, in fact, I'm not sure without a large family one can actually subsist entirely independently now.

Nanoo............yes, you can. All by yourself if need be. Even old ignorant cranky people can - just ask volker...or JD......

Kentucky's Bunning blocks reappointment of Bernanke | McClatchy

Badger boy wrote:

The only act that gets a Congressman's attention involves writing them a large check.

Not the only act. The other acts are imminent (in seconds) threats of bodily harm (rather illegal), and any act that involves permanently decoupling wealth-generating activities from the tax collection and/or your commented-upon pay-to-play process. The latter is still surprisingly accessible to the majority of the population.

you can get grant money for it and everything.

Nice one, volker.

nemo
employment might be a lagging indicator
but unemployment is a gagging indicator

BOHICA!

-11k, 10.0%

Unemployment has peaked for this cycle; the recovery has taken firm hold; the Fed can now take steps to remove excess liquidity.

Now get out there and shop!

BULLSHIT...........(re -11K)

Lots of good comments overnight.
Why can't we both take action now (as ineffectual as it might be) AND rebuild after the collapse?
Clearly the Elephants and Asses care about nothing other than getting elected.
Calls against/for TARP were supposedly running 90 - 10 but it passed anyway.
That should tell you something.
The Reds and the Blues are out to F#ck you and the faster you accept that; the better off you'll be, IMO.
Wall St. produces nothing of value so all those mega bonuses are just squids sucking the life blood out of our economy.
They are looters and pirates and have done more harm to America than anyone.
The foundations of our economy are build upon edifices of sand and the late great prophet Jimi Hendrix told us that Castles made of sand crumble into the sea eventually.
The collapse has already occured; there is no stopping it. The best one can hope to do is survive the coming chaos and attendant fascism as TPTB attempt to maintain their post WW II, oil dominate culture. And you know what? Their day is over; it is our time.
So no matter how low you are; grab those bootstraps and give those F#ckers HELL!

and happy BFF.

Black Star Ranch wrote:

BULLSHIT...........(re -11K)

Why do you hate America so much?

well, um, I meant nothing illegal

,rad Gnome wrote:

Why can't we both take action now (as ineffectual as it might be) AND rebuild after the collapse?

We have a major decision to make regarding our country's infrastructure. It's ancient and decaying rapidly. Our roads are a mess, but do we rebuild them only thinking of an old delivery system, whose days might be numbered?

Employment Report: 11K Jobs Lost, 10% Unemployment Rate

thats just it isn't it. We know its lies, more and more people are realizing the lies...once confidence is lost it is difficult to regain. Then what?

nanoo
internet! and phone cause its dsl.only got cable cause it gave me 10 dollar discount of cable internet. got rid of cable internet told sil if he wanted cable then put it his name. he did.but the internet to me is a need ill even go on with dial-up.
agree about americans not knowing their place in the world, ooh and its going to hurt when they find out.it will be interesting to see which country comes out on top and becomes the new king of the world. imo