I might jumping the gun tonight with the PBL, but it seems like an off night. Last time I posted this early, the FDIC dumped 8 failures at 6:30 PT or so! So you never know ...
Thanks - but much credit goes to the commenters. And I can't say it enough - Ken did an awesome job and created a cool place for us to discuss the issues of the day
This bank stuff is old news, we know there is a systemic failure that did happen and the fallout continues, but this issue of farts in space is another matter indeed -- we need to discuss vacuums, sound and blackholes, in addition to motivation. I guess I can understand that space is everywhere, so that, as a start seems like a starting point from which to build on....
We might not have to wait for Sheila to get her giddy-up going. Denninger seems to thing that something wicked this way comes. We have short term treasuries with negative yields, and a possible unwinding of the dollar carry trade. If his hunch is right, the impact will be seismic.
The bond market vigilantes might be preparing to release a nuclear-powered anti-zombie weapon. If so, collateral damage will be substantial.
OT here, find it impossible to keep up with these comment threads.
I usually keep my powder dry to avoid missing the snark but
per the global warming deniers several threads ago, it denigrates
the usual high quality of CR to post such crazy talk. To deny the science
involved in GW analysis would put the lie to all medical and tech advances
that allow and inform the world as we know it.
The disconnect is overwhelming.
"If his hunch is right, the impact will be seismic."
How long has he been predicting a cataclysm? One begins to loose focus. A global seismic event would mean that the global economy was out of human control, an idol that had begun to feast on its devotees, the economic equivalent of nuclear war, an event that nobody wants but that becomes inevitable.
"we need to discuss vacuums, sound and blackholes, ..."
I'll bet RD is an expert in vacuums. I'd also like to hear his opinion of ocean acidification. That should be interesting, especially why it's happening.
How long has he been predicting a cataclysm? One begins to loose focus. A global seismic event would mean that the global economy was out of human control, an idol that had begun to feast on its devotees, the economic equivalent of nuclear war, an event that nobody wants but that becomes inevitable.
Think we've reached that point?
A lot depends on whether or not Minsky's Financial Instability Hypothesis is valid. I think there is a massive dollar carry trade occurring. It logically will have to unwind sometime. That will either be bad or godawful terrible. When? No idea, but one day sooner than yesterday.
OT (which won't be hard to do given the trend of this thread):
Life is Smalltown, California.
First of all, the boys are all suited up for the first round of the playoffs, starting in about an hour. (You folks from Texas ought to appreciate that a lot of the town will turn out to support the team.)
Secondly, they are still funding band and Smalltown, which only got it's second high school 6 or 8 years ago, has bands from both schools performing for a championship tomorrow:
Finally, I'm not sure if this is political or a social event, but the much-ballyhooed recall of Rep. Anthony Adams for breaking lockstep with the Republican Party FAILED:
Grill, it isn't crazy talk. Are you not paying attention to the complete divergence between the real economy and what our government is telling us about the economy? They suggest that we just listen to what the smart economists like Bernanke tell us on the right hand, while they steal from us with their left.
There are legitimate questions about GW, and it's obvious that there has been a concerted effort to conceal data that doesn't support the claims of activists. Should I take what the NAR says at face value because they know the real estate market better than I do? Should I not ask questions about what my doctor prescribes for me, regardless of whether I know they're traveling to conferences sponsored by pharmaceutical companies?
I'm not a nutjob conspiracy theorist. I'm actually very highly educated. But it is becoming increasingly obvious that there is deep seated corruption in the politics and media of this country. If you want to discuss climate change, why don't you post some hard data that supports your claims? I'm happy to listen and examine the merit. Will I take at face value the claims of "experts", whose research grants depend on them sticking to the party line? Probably not.
Self delusion, along with duplicity, make the world go `round. Nobody is a GW doubter because of science. It's because of ideology. I have no doubt GW is real, but I'm against doing anything about GW because 1) I'll be dead before anything bad happens and 2) I don't want the socialists (aka Democrats, progressives, whatever) to increase the size of the government while pretending to "solve" GW (which they can't solve in any way except having less people on the planet). I personally think this way because I'm a Political Type #3. The Political Type #1's would have a similar mean explanation. What ELSE could a political type 1 or 3 do when facing something like GW except go with meanness (explained away with self-delusion and duplicity to make sleeping at night easier).
Gaveshire, i posted a link about undeniable evidence of our CO2 Impact on the planet.. its the Acid level of the Ocean wich will kill of the maritime Foodchain.. sadly the crowd whas just talking about the Weather ... (
Gaveshire, i posted a link about undeniable evidence of our CO2 Impact on the planet.. its the Acid level of the Ocean wich will kill of the maritime Foodchain.. sadly the crowd whas just talking about the Weather ... (
... and if everyone reading this thread thought "Holy shit ... we're destroying our planet", what would the result be ... really?
The issue isn't one of semantics, the difference between climate change and weather. The question is: 1)is the Earth getting warmer? and 2) is it caused by human activity? If you are willing to believe NASA, the answer must be yes, at least with respect to #1. And like Yoringe says, ocean acidification is absolutely caused by human activity, regardless. Reason enough to curb carbon emissions.
the Acid level of the Ocean wich will kill of the maritime Foodchain..
it's a slow process. adaptation to the more acidic environment by natural selection will render the impact minimal. Even if you are right, we got bigger stuff to worry about. it's as if you are concerned about the sun burning out in Twelve billion years when an asteroid is heading for us in that will impact in a decade..
well at least you can stop arguing if GW is real because weather is so unpredictable.. the Acid change can be traced to the last 150 years.. so no more denial wich would be a start..
Yoringe, I saw your link. I am not a scientist, nor do I want to use science to refute unscientific attacks that do not play by the rules, so I chose not to mention it. Ocean acidification is a well-understood chemical process whereby gaseous carbon dioxide, absorbed by ocean water, reversibly interacts with that water to form a weak acid, thereby changing the pH of the oceans to one less favorable to certain essential marine life. Absolutely no denying it, so it doesn't get much focus from critics. Funny how all the points that are easy to attack or use for confusion get the spot light time, when there is so much solid science to choose to focus on.
What if everybody had to be 99 feet above sea-level, within a decade?
That would bother me. I'm at 57 feet now. But, I know I'll be dead before the oceans rise 57 feet. Plus I'll be moving in 10 years anyway. (I'll remember to look for +99 feet).
There are legitimate questions about GW, and it's obvious that there has been a concerted effort to conceal data that doesn't support the claims of activists.
Look, I've kept silent until now, but conspiratorial "concerted effort to conceal data" theories just lead us into the wilderness. Let's have a discussion with what we've got, not about the Great Hidden Forces and Missing Data From Russia. Sheesh.
GH, I respect your opinion lots; and as I scientist, I'm just itchin' for good-quality discussion -- we sure need it, because the counterpoint to the years of denial of any HGW (human GW) is that proponents have had the field to themselves -- and we know how poorly one-party states make decisions (see: CA).
But don't cut us (scientists) out -- yeah, we need to eat, but we also need to do reviewed science to survive. Most of it is pretty good -- but I'd suggest that thinking you could look at the "hard data" yourself and come up with a reasoned judgment is, well, poor judgment. Experts play a role. Be skeptical -- but not dismissive. Unlike economists, most scientists don't have big bonuses or pay-packets on the line.
Bearded Spock i have the felling you dont really understand it. The slow process is the adaption of live to the acid ( and how you do it if your body armor (calk) dissolves !!! the change in the level is the quick one like 80 years...i repeat for you : we change in 250 years what Nature neede 300 million to adapt too!!
DcRogers wrote: Look, I've kept silent until now, but conspiratorial "concerted effort to conceal data" theories just lead us into the wilderness. Let's have a discussion with what we've got, not about the Great Hidden Forces and Missing Data From Russia.
Probably, but the effects might be so severe and sudden that you could personally suffer or die from the upheaval on the way to the world ending.
I'll be dead in 30 years and don't have any kids AND I'm a Political Type 3. So, my brain doesn't care. (When I have the 2nd glass of wine tonight, I'll care. As I get more intoxicated I migrate from PT 3 to PT 4.)
"And did I mention your gift for understatement...the volume of methane hydrates in the arctic permafrost is huge..."
Energyecon, my real feeling about this problem is that we will do significant jack**** about it and hope that somehow we will either luck out as a species, or find a wonderful technological fix, or that some of us will find a refuge, somehow. I doubt that the descendants of hunter-gatherers are capable of thinking in global terms unless the threat is immediate, as it was for the Montreal Protocol of 1987 re stratospheric ozone, or the global nuclear war threat of the 80s.
Climate change is just too abstract, unfamiliar and long-wave in the temporal frame of one human lifetime- unless it isn't. We hope that it will just go away, isn't really true, or that something will intervene in our favor. The usual.
Been there many times. I've canoed the Niobrara near Valentine a decade ago... when my kids were younger. We then went farther west and spent some time in the 'Pine Ridge' around Chadron. Nice area.
I have a feeling you don't understand natural selection. If your body armor dissolves, you die. Your sister the mutant with the acid-proof body armor has a million offspring that are fruitful and multiply because they don't have to compete with acid wimps like you. This can take as few as six, five or even one generations. Over 99% of all species that have ever lived are extinct. Life goes on.
Honestly , to believe nature will adapt in 200 years per Evolution to the changes we forcing could just work if these 5 billion years of evolution just happened on a 8000 year old biblical Earth ! spot the error..
How do you feel about diminishing output of liquid hydrocarbons as a path forward? There are those side effects with respect to reduced GDP and food output as well but remember, they are features, not bugs!
Honestly , to believe nature will adapt in 200 years per Evolution to the changes we forcing could just work if these 5 billion years of evolution just happened on a 8000 year old biblical Earth ! spot the error..
Yes I do. There is a documented case of white butterflies in England evolving black wings during the industrial revolution to hide on soot-covered surfaces. that took quite a bit less time than 200 years.
I don't get out that much but there are some nice places here like Valentine. Never would have figured I would end up here but I had a lake house at Mc Conaughy and liked the slower pace.
I saw someone unconsciously spilling a spoonful of salt onto her food while reading a book. I called it to her attention and she said: Maybe it landed somewhere else.
I rank that with another favorite of mine:
Poetry is easy to write when you don't know how to write it.
i think it doesnt occure to the bearded one that humankind could be part of the 99% very soon!!
and i thought we had some selfpreserving element like any other Animal.. guess we are to smart for that
isnt it the same mechanism that drove this financial suicide of the last years?? we are well and making money, what could go wrong....
Hey, my father was an engineer, and I am a scientist -- perhaps it is a recessive gene?
Skepticism is the cure for fanaticism and ignorance, in all things.
It is under-appreciated, and often confused with cynicism or doubt. But it's a great skill, rare, and often present in members of the two above professions.
I'm amazed that the retarded politicians are trying to talk about saving 150 billion with healthcare shit ... meanwhile, a few trillion $$ in toxic loans and failed banks float along, as if that's no big deal .....then the retards talk about TARP like they have a clue as to why they vote on anything .....just horrific! We need to change the political system ASAP, because Rome is heating up towards melting point!
I'm not denying climate change or global warming. I'm just saying I've gotten to the point that I now want to see the hard data for myself, not trust the so called experts who may or may not have an agenda. Especially when the issues have become political.
I admit that I'm ignorant on the topic, because I'm NOT a scientist. I appreciate the link to the NASA site -- that's precisely the type of information which is helpful, as opposed to prevailing opinions. Attack me for being naive. But not for asking questions. Agree on the skepticism topic.
scientists are liberals. They work in universities. We don't need MORE information than that buddy.
I'm not sure if you forgot a /snark tag, or if, like Stephen Colbert, your entire persona is to be treated so. In any case, if it's literal, it's gross, and if it's snark, it's not really funny. Lose-lose, baby.
"Reach out your hand if your cup be empty.
If your cup is full may it be again.
Let it be known there is a fountain,
That was not made by the hands of men."
remember that 99% extinction stat you blithely tossed out there...that calls bullshit on your certainty, generational span or no...see, there was that pesky toxicity of the mineral complex providing acid resistance...
150 billion with healthcare shit ... meanwhile, a few trillion $$ in toxic loans and failed banks float along, as if that's no big deal .....then the retards talk about TARP like they have a clue as to why they vote on anything .....just horrific!
Relax. I'ts only Dollars, and they are headed the way of the Dodo (or Krill).
Early in his career, Gould and Niles Eldredge developed the theory of punctuated equilibrium, in which evolutionary change occurs relatively rapidly, as compared to longer periods of relative evolutionary stability.[1] According to Gould, punctuated equilibrium revised a key pillar "in the central logic of Darwinian theory."[ Stephen Jay Gould - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I think taking care of the earth is a good idea and the downside to global warming is huge. Yet I am much more a peakinese in my worries. It quite possibly is an ideological bent. However the do goodism aspect of global warming raises my hackles.
AS to conspiracy to conceal information, read through the email threads that were released today. That part was a FACT. Regardless of whether they're correct on the topic of climate change, they've crossed the line from science into the unethical.
remember that 99% extinction stat you blithely tossed out there...that calls bullshit on your certainty, generational span or no...see, there was that pesky toxicity of the mineral complex providing acid resistance...
I make no claims what forms of life will survive. Something will. CO@ couldn't be worse than a dinosaur-killing meteor. frankly I'm hoping humanity will die out so that evil Vulcans can migrate to the Upper West Side without having to sell our technology secrets.
frontal lobes are great for dealing with changing environments. mmmm. Soilent Green.
Blackhalo - 'The warming deniers are almost as bad as the evolution deniers. I wonder if there is any overlap...' (earlier thread, 2:56)
Well not sure but I wonder if there is any overlap in emotionalism and a religious fervor for global warming fever without letting a reasonable debate occur on all the variables and factors of climate change research...and the need to conquer & police the world through Empire building and geo-political control...maybe there's no overlap here but emotionalism clouds both debates...
The denier label is overdone when one wants to check the research on a topic and verify it...the scientific method is an ongoing process of verifying theories with evidence...without shutting the doors on further research...
It is under-appreciated, and often confused with cynicism or doubt. But it's a great skill, rare, and often present in members of the two above professions.
A brief tour of the back office of the FDIC website reveals an OMFG element: they have an international propaganda section for spoon-feeding moral hazard enhancement to banks around the world.
The denier label is overdone when one wants to check the research on a topic and verify it...the scientific method is an ongoing process of verifying theories with evidence...without shutting the doors on further research...
Well that's just science, checking the data and attempting to duplicate results/observations independently. My use of the denier label was solely in the aspect of those who oppose a view on non-scientific grounds. Of which there is a lot.
One of the signature events of climate change is significant rainfalls in a 24 hour period, far too much all of the sudden, like what's happening in the North of England right now (bad) or like what happened in the Sierra Nevada last month. (good)
Regardless of whether they're correct on the topic of climate change, they've crossed the line from science into the unethical.
I think you confused the word "unethical" with "advocacy." The leaked sampling was obviously not random, was cherry-picked to be the worst of the worst documents they could find, and of those worst documents, a few sentences were then cherry-picked and presented to us without enough context. I looked through the leaks, and I could find no real slap-in-the-face smoking guns among the emails as to them falsifying data, but I am fairly certain from this data that the parties releasing this information had a bank of individuals combing through vast amounts of information to bring this to us. That suggests to me that there is a government or wealthy private agent behind this release. That worries me.
What I was saying about global warming (an introduced topic) which I think is occuring from fossil fuel burning but haven't reviewed all the evidence is that a more immediate problem for the human race if food shortages from the global credit freeze and deflation which will kill more people faster than global warming so maybe the focus should be on preventing a global Crash which will mean more food shortages and inability to pay for food...
get your on! a CME of similar magnitude is one of the most life changing little events that could occur literally over night given our current predeliction for solid state electronics...think planetary EMP more or less...
"...food shortages from the global credit freeze and deflation which will kill more people faster than global warming so maybe the focus should be on preventing a global Crash which will mean more food shortages and inability to pay for food..."
No, you don't understand... the power doesn't just go off, it stops...everything solid state stops because the circuits just got fried except for milspec stuff that was designed to be damn near an airburst nuclear detonation and the ensuing electromagnetic pulse (EMP)
cannibal on a scale and pace that would leave nova and cormac mccarthy breathless...
That all sounds much more...logical than the statement of yours I was responding to:
A generation span of krill is a tiny fraction of the generation span of krill predators. The krill will adapt first. Sheesh!
Which I evidently mistook for a...claim for what forms of life will survive...just sayin'
I mean I have no idea what the krill offspring or krill predator offspring of for that matter human offspring will mutate into. It depends on the fitness criteria and the blind luck of mutation. An evolutionary dead end is possible, of course, but trilobites died off too and the world still spins. If humanity dies out, then politicians and tree-hugging hippies die out too. That almost makes it worth it.
I looked through the leaks, and I could find no real slap-in-the-face smoking guns among the emails as to them falsifying data, but I am fairly certain from this data that the parties releasing this information had a bank of individuals combing through vast amounts of information to bring this to us.
Plus, when you are dealing with "leaked/hacked" data and there is no guarantee that it has not been altered by those with an agenda.
I have quite a bit of confidence that the many competing independant research climatologists have reviewed the PUBLISHED data and papers for any fault. And if there was any great agenda or plot to mislead the public, one of them would have cried foul by now. Just like they did with cold fusion.
How is that different that the Bailout or current [related] gov't actions?
Let the crooks steal paper from each other and play their little games; that is nothing new. We can live through their little machinations. Not so regarding the earth and its ability to sustain us without the need for megadeaths.
realize if you live on dawg food this may be twee:
atmospheric co2 has gone from about 280-380 ppm in the last 150 years
arrhenius described the effect of combustion produced co2 in 1896
co2 absorbs infrared and is one of the components of atmospheric greenhouse effect
human combustion of carbon products is increasing the amount of heat retained in the lower atmosphere, contributing to driving the current weather patterns
It just blows my mind that Eric Holder's ego is so big that he's willing to spend $100 million+ of U.S. taxpayer funds to make his personal political mark bringing scumbag terrorists to justice in the media capital of the world.
If I was U.S. Attorney General, I would find a hole somewhere to stuff these guys where they would never be heard from again. It would cost less than $10 million. But I wouldn't get as many kudos and ego strokes as idiot Eric.
I have quite a bit of confidence that the many competing independant research climatologists have reviewed the PUBLISHED data and papers for any fault. And if there was any great agenda or plot to mislead the public, one of them would have cried foul by now. Just like they did with cold fusion.
One thing that struck me about these leaks - they're leaking emails from people engaged in public relations and policy, not climate science. It shows that the organization is involved in advocacy, and is carefully presenting its information to meet public relations goals and influence policy in a way they feel is appropriate, but it doesn't really show that they're falsifying data or engaging in bad science, at least from what I've read so far.
Blackhalo,
You can't blame people for bring suspicious of government research and data supporting something (a theory or a campaign) since people have been mislead before for example...homeownership society...bailouts...Vietnam...weapons of mass destruction, etc.
Was doing a drive-by in the Big Smoke and saw a dozen homeless polloi, but what struck me as unusual, was 3 couples, in the haul of humanity, curbside.
That's a new trend around these parts, usually it's a single guy sans money, avec cardboard sign~
It just blows my mind that Eric Holder's ego is so big that he's willing to spend $100 million+ of U.S. taxpayer funds to make his personal political mark bringing scumbag terrorists to justice in the media capital of the world.
Laws and legal due process are expensive.
In the long run, abandoning these things is even more expensive for a democratically inclined society.
i think some people just think scammers will scam global warming the way the bailouts were a scam...
Pfft of THAT I have no doubt. Just like Medicare schedule D turned into a big fat gift for Big Pharma, health care reform (absent a public option) is a big fat gift for Big Insurance and TARP is a big fat gift to the .
If I was U.S. Attorney General, I would find a hole somewhere to stuff these guys where they would never be heard from again. It would cost less than $10 million. But I wouldn't get as many kudos and ego strokes as idiot Eric.
How marvelously circular. We shouldn't give accused terrorists their day in court to attempt to prove that they are not terrorists because they are terrorists. That's what passes for presumption of innocence and due process of law in the home of the free these days?
In September 1990, Fritz Will, Director of the National Cold Fusion Institute, compiled a list of 92 groups of researchers from 10 different countries that had reported excess heat, 3H, 4He, neutrons or other nuclear effects
didnt some news boob say : what if he comes free because the evidence against him was gotten through torture... just floored me!!
But doing that trial in NY is stupid.. why not somewhere else where you dont need to shut down a million ppl city for security reasons?? does NY need the Money soo much??
Anybody here a climatologist? No? an appeal to authority is a logical fallacy. Demanding to see conclusive evidence before reaching a conclusion is called skepticism and it is the foundation of science. The models are questionable at best. The data is inconclusive and no one has addressed the assumptions I mentioned earlier, namely is GW?CC a net good or bad and will it cost more to prevent than to live with?
We are not doing the trial for the terrorists.
We are doing it for ourselves, so that we stay a
free society. Same reason we don't do torture--err,
shouldn't do torture. Authorizing torture means somebody
has to be a torturer.
Elmer i admit i just saw some foxnews hype about it and it was like they had to prepare for a huge Al-quaida Invasion to free the guy.. and i guess you prepare for that since law enforcement USA loves to follow the most paranoid scenario it seems..
you have every right to be inquisitive about global warming
i have hiked and climbed up the athabaska glacier and the nisqually glacier 30 years ago and then again recently and can say to a certainty that the glaciers in te PNW are retreating
Bearded spock: ever heard of doing your own research?
Sure, but I don't have the time or inclination to earn a degree in climatology just to resolve this issue in my own mind. I truly believe we have bigger and more immanent things to worry about, namely the zombie bank apocalypse.
If the oceans rise, we build dikes out of used tires. I'll buy a condo on Antarctica and use sunblock 3 million for the ozone hole.
shut down a million ppl city for security reasons?
If you have to shut down a city, your doing it wrong. Somehow we were able to try Capone and McVeigh without such absurdity. I suspect the $100 Million and city shutdowns, is just cowardly, fear mongering, rhetoric, from those with political points to make. I swear to FSM, when did Americans become such pussies?
Dogoodism like trying to prevent millions of south Asian and African farmers from dying in floods and droughts?
No dogoodism like, the great leap forward, the spanish inquisistion, 5 year plan, middle age witch hunts, cambodian killing fields McCarthyism and almost all the wars of humankind. I am more afraid of those in power or can come to power with an agenda than global warming.
By the way, JCMorgan/Chase is really really enforcing its
credit card deficiencies. Not only getting judgments, but trying
to collect 'em, which is actually rather rare.
Anybody here a climatologist? No? an appeal to authority is a logical fallacy.
?? This doesn't even scan
Demanding to see conclusive evidence before reaching a conclusion is called skepticism and it is the foundation of science.
?? "Demanding to see conclusive evidence before reaching a conclusion" is not "skepticism", nor is it the foundation of science. (Perhaps hypothesis/test/revise is the foundation, or perhaps falsifiability, but certainly not: 'demand conclusive evidence before reaching a conclusion'.)
The models are questionable at best. The data is inconclusive...
?? Are you a climatologist, able to evaluate models? I thought you doubted appeals to authority?
Anyhow, I know I'm being baited here, as you're showing all the signs of being a troll. Did you used to post here under another name, by any chance?
Yoringe, it's plain English isn't your first language, but don't worry, you're doing fine, my friend. Your content more than makes up for your syntax. Good to hear your views.
Thought experiment guys: if you were a judge and you were trying two men at the same time and you have to convict them both or release them both but you knew for certain that one was guilty of murder and one was innocent, what would you do?
I love how we ignore the Vostok ice core data. Specifically the long term pattern. Also, how many SUV's were present in the Carboniferous? Looking through geologic time there are many instances of icehouse and hothouse conditions. The current AGW fad is driven by the need for research funds by losers that generally can't make it in the modern world. They get funding by the likes of Al Gore and then magically find a way to blame global warming for the driving factor behind whatever drivel their reasearch devolves. I am a scientist and the level of crap in most "scientific" journals drives me crazy.
if you were a judge and you were trying two men at the same time and you have to convict them both or release them both but you knew for certain that one was guilty of murder and one was innocent, what would you do?
I'd repeat my question: I know we're being baited here, as you're showing all the signs of being a troll. Did you used to post here under another name?
Why would you have to convict or release them both?
How do you know guilt or innocence for certain?
You don't and you can't.
It's hypothetical. Just assume for the sake of argument that you are certain. The point is to see if you are willing to lock up the innocent for what you consider the greater good.
bearded spock
i thought that was up to the jury not the judge, i might be wrong but i thought the judge presided over the trial
and also how could the court try two men at the same time? wouldnt their right to trial be violated?
If I was U.S. Attorney General, I would find a hole somewhere to stuff these guys where they would never be heard from again. It would cost less than $10 million. But I wouldn't get as many kudos and ego strokes as idiot Eric.
How marvelously circular. We shouldn't give accused terrorists their day in court to attempt to prove that they are not terrorists because they are terrorists. That's what passes for presumption of innocence and due process of law in the home of the free these days?
Pretty much.
Reality is they now wish they'd never taken them 'alive'. If this was done like in the cold war - they wouldn't have. Next time they won't have this 'problem'.
Reading about the siege at Stalingrad, which was about as Mad Max as it gets, dead soldiers were found with their heads cracked open, and their brains missing, presumably taken and eaten by other starving soldiers.
But doing that trial in NY is stupid.. why not somewhere else where you dont need to shut down a million ppl city for security reasons?? does NY need the Money soo much??
NY is the perfect venue - considering where the majority of the damage occurred.
New Scientist - to which I subscribe, is a comical read the last couple of years. I would venture to guess 70+ % of the articles contained in each weekly edition find that AGW is somehow responsible for whatever findings the author is researching. Pathetic....
LOS ANGELES — Customs officials say they got a surprise when they found 316,000 glass bongs disguised as Christmas ornaments at the Los Angeles harbor.
U.S. Customs and Border Protection said Thursday that agents found the highly decorated drug pipes in 860 boxes shipped from China. The cargo, estimated to be worth more than $2.6 million, had been described as glass figures and Christmas ornaments.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
So why weren't the valued @ more like $26 million, based upon how much the kind is commonly overvalued, when the coppers get their mitts on it.
I know perfectly well you were trying to pose a hypothetical question.
I don't want to be boxed in like that.
That's obvious, yet sometimes we are presented with such dilemmas in real life. How committed are you to the legal principle of presumption of innocence? Due process of law? If the ends justify the means, then how can you claim to be morally superior to terrorists? isn't that their rationalization for what they do?
Not so. There were serious errors in the radiation measurements, but the excess heat results have been replicated enough times that it seems likely the original results were significant. Which is why the effect is still referred to as the Fleischmann Pons Effect (FPE).
This a quick reference. In general the AGW crowd will cherry pick the data to make a point. Do your homework and look at the long term trends. Also, look into the Pacific Decadal Oscillation. This has a major impact on North American weather patterns and is rarely referenced by the AGW crowd.
Trained as a geologist, thank you. But most importantly trained to think on my own rather than follow the herd....... Too many prostitutes looking for funding these days are willing to sell their souls for a $.
bruce
googled vostok ice core data chose the wiki sent it desktop to read in a few. i hope suv is the truck like vehicle? and not some scienfic term.
can you suggest a non crappie scientific journal?
bribe the spaghetti Monster with some tomatoe sauce..
re terrorists : the super ego monkey and his paranoid side dick had to prove there manlyhood by getting these guys alive and torture them... and now Obibama has the legal fallout on his hands!!
"Since the announcement of Pons and Fleischmann in 1989, cold fusion has been considered to be an example of pathological science."
Pathological science - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
FWIW: I was on the periphery for the cold fusion bruhaha. Calling it names like "Pathological science" does not do it justice.
In the worst case: It is an example of how shoddy work is reproducible. Pons and Fleischmann got their result via calorimetry, which is quite difficult and prone to error. But they had reputations for doing it well, which is why the whole story blew up.
I went to talks where folks were attempting to verify that something odd was happening via totally different measurement techniques. There were higher-order nuclei being measured well above error bars, and this was via mass spectroscopy.
The only explanations that I could come up with: 1. There is something going on that is not yet understood, or 2. Many different labs (including guys like Lawrence Livermore) had significant (and probabilistic) errors that were sufficient to imitate physics that is not yet understood.
Since I was on my way to a different field of research, I didn't follow it any further, but I left with an open mind. There were others that did pursue it, and it has consumed them for the past 20 years.
Predict a quick pop in employment. I've been watching Dice.com daily for perhaps eighteen months and there's definitely deflationary behavior... the same jobs run month after month, and I know they're at least real enough to have done an interview. But as near as I can from my phone calls, the most marginal areas are having trouble getting what they want. Got a lot of calls for MI, MN, OH, etc this month. If the economy picks up further, it may set off a sudden reversal as employers figure out their pool is shrinking instead of growing, i.e. a positive feedback reversal.
Jobs listed for Boise this month is the most I've seen in at least six months.
Likewise Seattle, although they're heavily Amazon skewed.
Off to pool, maybe to meet somebody's cast-off girlfriend or two.
There were others that did pursue it, and it has consumed them for the past 20 years.
Well, I've only put the last 5 into it, but having met virtually all the folks who have put the last 20 into it, my judgement is that there is probably something there.
bearded spock
i thought that was up to the jury not the judge, i might be wrong but i thought the judge presided over the trial
and also how could the court try two men at the same time? wouldnt their right to trial be violated?
Are you intentionally attempting to evade the moral issue here? it's hypothetical. How much injustice would you be willing to tolerate or inflict to keep the country safe? If the answer is anything more than zero, then how do we keep ourselves safe from you?
I have heard no convincing argument that terrorists are a bigger threat to my life or liberty than the government is. It can be further argued that it is our interventionist foreign policy that makes terrorism as much of a risk as it is.
There were others that did pursue it, and it has consumed them for the past 20 years.
Hey, far be it for me to dismiss cold fusion outright as it is the holy grail of cheap "renewable" energy. The guy who gets it first will be rich and famous. BUT it does lend itself to the "perpetual motion machine" kind of scams and the science on it, so far, is rather inconclusive. AND the INITIAL claims and science were notoriously bad.
Just a disappointing BFF, when traditionally there is a bit of drinking involved... So, without being able to enjoy our favorite subject (poking fun at bad banks), I think we tend to turn on our own...
Many scientific labs have recreated the net energy release over the past 15 years.
Many scientific labs have discovered that this is a hideously complicated experimental system to work with. So far as I know (and I've kept tangentially up with this stuff for years) there's been no clean-cut reproduction -- yet.
That said, I'd be the first to bust open the champagne and shout their glory when some lab releases their Fusion-To-Go device to the mass market and makes billions and saves the world. But I ain't invested yet -- unlike, it appears, a number of ongoing people, which might explain the constant dribble of "encouraging news". Like I said earlier, I'm a 'skeptic'.
@MLM Have you encountered Peter Hagelstein? I was a lowly grad student teaching assistant for him in 1989.
@Blackhalo: The key words in my post: "open mind". I came to no conclusion, but I saw bizarre results presented by people with good reputations.
Are there wackos that latched onto it? You bet. Are there also wackos that latch onto quantum mechanics? Yep. People that try to assign religious significance to spacetime? We got those too.
If you let the wackos displace the science, there won't be a helluva lot of advancement going on.
Follow the Vostok data. There are many good papers by respected scientsits. Also dig into the Pacific Decadal Oscillation data. I believe the original/early work was done in Seattle, WA in the early 1990's.
We are feeling whimsical and twitchy and there is nothing
to be whimsical and twitchy at.
Oh, a couple of comments, I parked at a very cheap place some
blocks away from my seminar are Biscayne Blvd. Many new
buildings, all empty at street level, and indeed most had never
had anything done at all on the inside, not even smooth concrete
flooring. Not many people walking. In the cheap crappy buildings
not on the park or water or anything, some vacancies, but lots
of business too and people walking.
I think my mom is scared of the bathtub. Hasn't used it yet.
which argued the long rejected notion that increases in CO2 lag but do not cause global warming
and here, as the scientist you claim to be,, i was hoping you would send me to a research or study project that had generated a report based on data that disputed the conventional and widely accepted understanding that induction of CO2 into the atmosphere was increasing global average temperatures
look
there is no doubt that the climate has warmed and cooled in the past without human intervention
the milankovitch cycle, the ebb and flow of solar output, and many other cyclical natural events have heralded changes in the earths global temperature
Come on Shelia.
Pick one or more from the list.
One and done tonight. I guess our banking system is strong.
The list keeps growing. At this rate, we'll kill all the zombies sometime during the second Palin administration (in other words never).
Palin/ Beck 2012!
What's so great about bee's knees?
I might jumping the gun tonight with the PBL, but it seems like an off night. Last time I posted this early, the FDIC dumped 8 failures at 6:30 PT or so! So you never know ...
best to all
Thanks for all you do, CR.
Spitzer / Radigan 2012
Dream team.
Deja Vu all over again?
-closing banks to kill threads since 1812hrs
keep hope... may there will be a big Zombie feast last friday of the year
Thanks - but much credit goes to the commenters. And I can't say it enough - Ken did an awesome job and created a cool place for us to discuss the issues of the day
best to all
This bank stuff is old news, we know there is a systemic failure that did happen and the fallout continues, but this issue of farts in space is another matter indeed -- we need to discuss vacuums, sound and blackholes, in addition to motivation. I guess I can understand that space is everywhere, so that, as a start seems like a starting point from which to build on....
Also see and hear: YouTube - Mego Star Trek Communication Console Commercial
"Palin/ Beck 2012!"
Who gets to wear the ruby slippers?
"we need to discuss vacuums, sound and blackholes,"
A course in rhetoric?
Cartman/Kermit 2012
since marge simpson was on the cover of playboy may thats the way to go.. cartman would show everybody...
Bwahahahaha. Quad witching is Dec 18, so you may be a little out.
C
Much can happen in the next two years, and most of it will surprise us. It's touching how people assume that not much will change in two years.
The sun will appear to rise in the morning and descend in the evening, in most places.
you just need a way to funnel the fart out of the spacesuit at full pressure without getting an Analfreeze...
i propose a NASA fart Czar!
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/1649-CAUTION-Carry-Correlation-Update.html
We might not have to wait for Sheila to get her giddy-up going. Denninger seems to thing that something wicked this way comes. We have short term treasuries with negative yields, and a possible unwinding of the dollar carry trade. If his hunch is right, the impact will be seismic.
The bond market vigilantes might be preparing to release a nuclear-powered anti-zombie weapon. If so, collateral damage will be substantial.
OT here, find it impossible to keep up with these comment threads.
I usually keep my powder dry to avoid missing the snark but
per the global warming deniers several threads ago, it denigrates
the usual high quality of CR to post such crazy talk. To deny the science
involved in GW analysis would put the lie to all medical and tech advances
that allow and inform the world as we know it.
The disconnect is overwhelming.
If you can fart in space better hope you don't have a hole in your space suit. You got more trouble then just the smell.
When I think of space, this is what I see: Vacuum Cleaners by Miele: Form & Function in Perfect Harmony™
You just need a way to funnel the fart out of the spacesuit at full pressure without getting an Analfreeze
And a pouch for the chick peas.
Cabbage it the best fart full IMO..
"If his hunch is right, the impact will be seismic."
How long has he been predicting a cataclysm? One begins to loose focus. A global seismic event would mean that the global economy was out of human control, an idol that had begun to feast on its devotees, the economic equivalent of nuclear war, an event that nobody wants but that becomes inevitable.
Think we've reached that point?
"Cabbage it the best fart full IMO."
Chick peas. Lentils. You could play the bagpipes after a full lunch.
grillfalcon wrote:
So isn't methane a greenhouse gas several orders of magnitude worse than CO2? Perhaps we should cap and trade fart permits.
pavel.chichikov wrote:
well, I can see the conversation has reached an accessible level
Ah, CR + commentry.
Where else can you discuss global warming, global financial implosion, and spacesuit farts on one thread at all hours.
Why bother asking a rhetorical question?
On the Verge of Self Mutilation wrote:
I don't think Radigan is Spitzer's type.
"we need to discuss vacuums, sound and blackholes, ..."
I'll bet RD is an expert in vacuums. I'd also like to hear his opinion of ocean acidification. That should be interesting, especially why it's happening.
"So isn't methane a greenhouse gas several orders of magnitude worse than CO2? Perhaps we should cap and trade fart permits."
It departs very quickly compared to carbon.
pavel.chichikov wrote:
pavel, if anyone could possibly make an erudite contribution to a fart thread, you are that person...
actual we should downsize animal farming like Cows and Pigs.. because of the methan!
Greening The Herds: A New Diet To Cap Gas - NY Times
"pavel.chichikov wrote:
You just need a way to funnel the fart out of the spacesuit "
I didn't write that.
I find myself enjoying the new recent linky thingy Universal Soldier, Donovan
pavel.chichikov wrote:
That would be a weird visit to the emerald city., "Oh great and powerful OZ, I need a brain!"
"Me too, you betcha!"
energyecon wrote:
Re: "fart thread" How long has this been going on?
What if there were no hypothetical questions?
pavel.chichikov wrote:
A lot depends on whether or not Minsky's Financial Instability Hypothesis is valid. I think there is a massive dollar carry trade occurring. It logically will have to unwind sometime. That will either be bad or godawful terrible. When? No idea, but one day sooner than yesterday.
Hyman Minsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Thanks, energyecon.
Methane may be more of a problem as the permafrost warms.
Doc Holiday wrote:
someone should open a window, that's how long
Palin as President has some zing to it......
May finally some Aliens would show up just to point a Finger and laugh loud....
Why do they put braille on drive up ATM's?
OT (which won't be hard to do given the trend of this thread):
Life is Smalltown, California.
First of all, the boys are all suited up for the first round of the playoffs, starting in about an hour. (You folks from Texas ought to appreciate that a lot of the town will turn out to support the team.)
Secondly, they are still funding band and Smalltown, which only got it's second high school 6 or 8 years ago, has bands from both schools performing for a championship tomorrow:
Two Apple Valley bands vie for state championships | apple, valley, vie - Local News - Victorville Daily Press
Finally, I'm not sure if this is political or a social event, but the much-ballyhooed recall of Rep. Anthony Adams for breaking lockstep with the Republican Party FAILED:
Adams recall effort fails | recall, signatures, adams - Breaking News - Victorville Daily Press
Sorry, John and Ken, there just aren't as many wackos out here in the desert as you thought there were.
Grill, it isn't crazy talk. Are you not paying attention to the complete divergence between the real economy and what our government is telling us about the economy? They suggest that we just listen to what the smart economists like Bernanke tell us on the right hand, while they steal from us with their left.
There are legitimate questions about GW, and it's obvious that there has been a concerted effort to conceal data that doesn't support the claims of activists. Should I take what the NAR says at face value because they know the real estate market better than I do? Should I not ask questions about what my doctor prescribes for me, regardless of whether I know they're traveling to conferences sponsored by pharmaceutical companies?
I'm not a nutjob conspiracy theorist. I'm actually very highly educated. But it is becoming increasingly obvious that there is deep seated corruption in the politics and media of this country. If you want to discuss climate change, why don't you post some hard data that supports your claims? I'm happy to listen and examine the merit. Will I take at face value the claims of "experts", whose research grants depend on them sticking to the party line? Probably not.
If you see an endangered animal eating an endangered plant; what do you do?
make me an endangered meal??
Where do Forest Rangers go to "get away from it all"?
grillfalcon wrote:
Self delusion, along with duplicity, make the world go `round. Nobody is a GW doubter because of science. It's because of ideology. I have no doubt GW is real, but I'm against doing anything about GW because 1) I'll be dead before anything bad happens and 2) I don't want the socialists (aka Democrats, progressives, whatever) to increase the size of the government while pretending to "solve" GW (which they can't solve in any way except having less people on the planet). I personally think this way because I'm a Political Type #3. The Political Type #1's would have a similar mean explanation. What ELSE could a political type 1 or 3 do when facing something like GW except go with meanness (explained away with self-delusion and duplicity to make sleeping at night easier).
Yoringe wrote:
May finally some Aliens would show up just to point a Finger and laugh loud...
They already have. I heard them say "Ja Ja Ja! La mujere es pinche loco!" Ahora, vamos con Home Depot para trabajar."
"May finally some Aliens would show up just to point a Finger and laugh loud...."
We're under quarantine. They'd be arrested for trespassing.
Gaveshire, i posted a link about undeniable evidence of our CO2 Impact on the planet.. its the Acid level of the Ocean wich will kill of the maritime Foodchain.. sadly the crowd whas just talking about the Weather ...
(
If someone with multiple personalities is threatening suicide is it a hostage situation?
,rad sportsfan,
Hinkley, Ca. struck me as a Mad-Maxian aftermath, with meth-odd actors. A complete hellwhole in the desert.
This fits in as being on topic:
YouTube -
"If you see an endangered animal eating an endangered plant; what do you do?"
Go a little easier on the gin and tonic.
Is there another word for synonym?
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
It's the water. Just ask PG&E.
First rule about living in the desert: Find Good Water.
pavel.chichikov wrote:
And did I mention your gift for understatement...the volume of methane hydrates in the arctic permafrost is huge...
"If someone with multiple personalities is threatening suicide is it a hostage situation?"
No, you need to change your optical prescription.
Yoringe wrote:
... and if everyone reading this thread thought "Holy shit ... we're destroying our planet", what would the result be ... really?
My son found this one, for your listening pleasure:
The Fart File
Which one are you?
energyecon wrote:
Will it take longer than 30 years for the world to end if all the trapped (non fart originated) methane is released?
The issue isn't one of semantics, the difference between climate change and weather. The question is: 1)is the Earth getting warmer? and 2) is it caused by human activity? If you are willing to believe NASA, the answer must be yes, at least with respect to #1. And like Yoringe says, ocean acidification is absolutely caused by human activity, regardless. Reason enough to curb carbon emissions.
Climate Change: NASA's Eyes on the Earth
Yoringe wrote:
it's a slow process. adaptation to the more acidic environment by natural selection will render the impact minimal. Even if you are right, we got bigger stuff to worry about. it's as if you are concerned about the sun burning out in Twelve billion years when an asteroid is heading for us in that will impact in a decade..
farts are the new
well at least you can stop arguing if GW is real because weather is so unpredictable.. the Acid change can be traced to the last 150 years.. so no more denial wich would be a start..
OT
Spitzer slamming Geithner on Maddow.
Bearded Spock wrote:
Well, we better off folks yes. But, I do agree with you. I sure don't care.
I've been recently informed of the ecological destruction wrought by dog ownership ... but you know what, I like my dog more than the rest of you.
What if everybody had to be 99 feet above sea-level, within a decade?
World won't end, we just might end up losing our management position is all...
Yoringe wrote:
Denial is what makes living possible.
Yoringe, I saw your link. I am not a scientist, nor do I want to use science to refute unscientific attacks that do not play by the rules, so I chose not to mention it. Ocean acidification is a well-understood chemical process whereby gaseous carbon dioxide, absorbed by ocean water, reversibly interacts with that water to form a weak acid, thereby changing the pH of the oceans to one less favorable to certain essential marine life. Absolutely no denying it, so it doesn't get much focus from critics. Funny how all the points that are easy to attack or use for confusion get the spot light time, when there is so much solid science to choose to focus on.
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
That would bother me. I'm at 57 feet now. But, I know I'll be dead before the oceans rise 57 feet. Plus I'll be moving in 10 years anyway. (I'll remember to look for +99 feet).
Spitzer for President!
No more Dumbos and Asses....
Amerikadima Party 2012!
Will it take longer than 30 years for the world to end if all the trapped (non fart originated) methane is released?
Probably, but the effects might be so severe and sudden that you could personally suffer or die from the upheaval on the way to the world ending.
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
That would take care of falling house prices. I doubt those 3 kids in SF make out so well. Perhaps you have stumbled upon the
/Fed plan?
Gavshire Hathaway wrote:
Look, I've kept silent until now, but conspiratorial "concerted effort to conceal data" theories just lead us into the wilderness. Let's have a discussion with what we've got, not about the Great Hidden Forces and Missing Data From Russia. Sheesh.
GH, I respect your opinion lots; and as I scientist, I'm just itchin' for good-quality discussion -- we sure need it, because the counterpoint to the years of denial of any HGW (human GW) is that proponents have had the field to themselves -- and we know how poorly one-party states make decisions (see: CA).
But don't cut us (scientists) out -- yeah, we need to eat, but we also need to do reviewed science to survive. Most of it is pretty good -- but I'd suggest that thinking you could look at the "hard data" yourself and come up with a reasoned judgment is, well, poor judgment. Experts play a role. Be skeptical -- but not dismissive. Unlike economists, most scientists don't have big bonuses or pay-packets on the line.
That is why I live in the mountains of Central America! The Sand Hills.
Bearded Spock i have the felling you dont really understand it. The slow process is the adaption of live to the acid ( and how you do it if your body armor (calk) dissolves !!! the change in the level is the quick one like 80 years...i repeat for you : we change in 250 years what Nature neede 300 million to adapt too!!
DcRogers wrote:
Look, I've kept silent until now, but conspiratorial "concerted effort to conceal data" theories just lead us into the wilderness. Let's have a discussion with what we've got, not about the Great Hidden Forces and Missing Data From Russia.
WHO GOT TO YOU? WAS IT THE JEWS?!?!
Lobbyist Ben Dover wrote:
Nebraska?
Hoopajoops LTD wrote:
I'll be dead in 30 years and don't have any kids AND I'm a Political Type 3. So, my brain doesn't care. (When I have the 2nd glass of wine tonight, I'll care. As I get more intoxicated I migrate from PT 3 to PT 4.)
dryfly,
That is the place.
DC:
Amen. My father is a scientist, and I am an engineer. Skepticism is the cure for fanaticism and ignorance, in all things.
"And did I mention your gift for understatement...the volume of methane hydrates in the arctic permafrost is huge..."
Energyecon, my real feeling about this problem is that we will do significant jack**** about it and hope that somehow we will either luck out as a species, or find a wonderful technological fix, or that some of us will find a refuge, somehow. I doubt that the descendants of hunter-gatherers are capable of thinking in global terms unless the threat is immediate, as it was for the Montreal Protocol of 1987 re stratospheric ozone, or the global nuclear war threat of the 80s.
Climate change is just too abstract, unfamiliar and long-wave in the temporal frame of one human lifetime- unless it isn't. We hope that it will just go away, isn't really true, or that something will intervene in our favor. The usual.
DCRogers wrote:
Most Political Type 1's & 3's know ALL scientists are liberals. They work in universities. We don't need MORE information than that buddy.
Hoopajoops LTD wrote:
Nothing new there. Opposers always prefer to knock down the straw man. Opposers control the media.
Hoopajoops LTD wrote:
Careful ... you'll invite a 'J people' rant.
REO Duplex available for scuba parties?
No, it wasn't the Jews.
They're still moving Elvis from place to place so that the media doesn't get ahold of him.
Guess you missed the memo.
Lobbyist Ben Dover wrote:
Been there many times. I've canoed the Niobrara near Valentine a decade ago... when my kids were younger. We then went farther west and spent some time in the 'Pine Ridge' around Chadron. Nice area.
I have a feeling you don't understand natural selection. If your body armor dissolves, you die. Your sister the mutant with the acid-proof body armor has a million offspring that are fruitful and multiply because they don't have to compete with acid wimps like you. This can take as few as six, five or even one generations. Over 99% of all species that have ever lived are extinct. Life goes on.
Honestly , to believe nature will adapt in 200 years per Evolution to the changes we forcing could just work if these 5 billion years of evolution just happened on a 8000 year old biblical Earth ! spot the error..
Well, off to dinner and my slow migration to old-school liberalism with a nice bottle of wine.
Hoopajoops LTD wrote:
Uh, sorry, gotta go now.
Bearded Spock wrote:
He just called your sister a slut.
How do you feel about diminishing output of liquid hydrocarbons as a path forward? There are those side effects with respect to reduced GDP and food output as well but remember, they are features, not bugs!
Yoringe wrote:
Yes I do. There is a documented case of white butterflies in England evolving black wings during the industrial revolution to hide on soot-covered surfaces. that took quite a bit less time than 200 years.
Kinky sects?
I don't get out that much but there are some nice places here like Valentine. Never would have figured I would end up here but I had a lake house at Mc Conaughy and liked the slower pace.
"Denial is what makes living possible."
Is that original? It's memorable.
I saw someone unconsciously spilling a spoonful of salt onto her food while reading a book. I called it to her attention and she said: Maybe it landed somewhere else.
I rank that with another favorite of mine:
Poetry is easy to write when you don't know how to write it.
i think it doesnt occure to the bearded one that humankind could be part of the 99% very soon!!
and i thought we had some selfpreserving element like any other Animal.. guess we are to smart for that
isnt it the same mechanism that drove this financial suicide of the last years?? we are well and making money, what could go wrong....
Nuke wrote:
Hey, my father was an engineer, and I am a scientist -- perhaps it is a recessive gene?
It is under-appreciated, and often confused with cynicism or doubt. But it's a great skill, rare, and often present in members of the two above professions.
pavel.chichikov wrote:
My favourite line from American Beauty (movie, not the album) was 'Don't underestimate the power of denial.'
OT, as I watch the crap on:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#34052762
I'm amazed that the retarded politicians are trying to talk about saving 150 billion with healthcare shit ... meanwhile, a few trillion $$ in toxic loans and failed banks float along, as if that's no big deal .....then the retards talk about TARP like they have a clue as to why they vote on anything .....just horrific! We need to change the political system ASAP, because Rome is heating up towards melting point!
and i guess all the Animal who depend on Krill can go on a Diet till the Krill has adapted... gesh...
Yoringe wrote:
A self sustaining moonbase would be good for that...
I'm not denying climate change or global warming. I'm just saying I've gotten to the point that I now want to see the hard data for myself, not trust the so called experts who may or may not have an agenda. Especially when the issues have become political.
I admit that I'm ignorant on the topic, because I'm NOT a scientist. I appreciate the link to the NASA site -- that's precisely the type of information which is helpful, as opposed to prevailing opinions. Attack me for being naive. But not for asking questions. Agree on the skepticism topic.
this is a test homeGnome yes to the hostage question
NOTaREALmerican wrote:
I'm not sure if you forgot a /snark tag, or if, like Stephen Colbert, your entire persona is to be treated so. In any case, if it's literal, it's gross, and if it's snark, it's not really funny. Lose-lose, baby.
"A self sustaining moonbase would be good for that..."
Hydroponic chick peas?
I liked
"Reach out your hand if your cup be empty.
If your cup is full may it be again.
Let it be known there is a fountain,
That was not made by the hands of men."
From the album, not the movie.
Yoringe wrote:
A generation span of krill is a tiny fraction of the generation span of krill predators. The krill will adapt first. Sheesh!
GW is much like TARP! the one who screwed it up or denie the consequences of it drag down the rest who want to do something useful
The Colbert thing.
You just krill me with your mind melds, oh Bearded one.
remember that 99% extinction stat you blithely tossed out there...that calls bullshit on your certainty, generational span or no...see, there was that pesky toxicity of the mineral complex providing acid resistance...
blind roll of the dice
Yoringe wrote:
Evolutionary traits only get a species so far.
Doc Holiday wrote:
Relax. I'ts only Dollars, and they are headed the way of the Dodo (or Krill).
Only one lousy tiny Florida Bank?
Bearded Spock wrote:
Early in his career, Gould and Niles Eldredge developed the theory of punctuated equilibrium, in which evolutionary change occurs relatively rapidly, as compared to longer periods of relative evolutionary stability.[1] According to Gould, punctuated equilibrium revised a key pillar "in the central logic of Darwinian theory."[ Stephen Jay Gould - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I think taking care of the earth is a good idea and the downside to global warming is huge. Yet I am much more a peakinese in my worries. It quite possibly is an ideological bent. However the do goodism aspect of global warming raises my hackles.
We're all Krill now! We need a krill smiley.
"I'm just saying I've gotten to the point that I now want to see the hard data for myself, ..."
have at 'er:
IPCC - Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
Mmmm, dodo and cranberry pizza.
C'mon sheila.
C
Late to the game, but I thought krill was teeny tiny baleen whale
food.
Comrade Kristina wrote:
Can
survive on krill once the Dollars are gone?
Live Dead
AS to conspiracy to conceal information, read through the email threads that were released today. That part was a FACT. Regardless of whether they're correct on the topic of climate change, they've crossed the line from science into the unethical.
energyecon wrote:
I make no claims what forms of life will survive. Something will. CO@ couldn't be worse than a dinosaur-killing meteor. frankly I'm hoping humanity will die out so that evil Vulcans can migrate to the Upper West Side without having to sell our technology secrets.
frontal lobes are great for dealing with changing environments. mmmm. Soilent Green.
bearded one see what would happen:
first this..
Canadian salmon shortage inquiry launched - UPI.com
than that
Killer whales threatened by salmon shortage
thats small change IMO to Krill go missing for a bit.. btw the adapted Krill how long would it take to get enough of it to replace the died off??
Apparatchica Kristina,
How's the bar scene, the usual suspects and such?
"However the do goodism aspect of global warming raises my hackles."
Dogoodism like trying to prevent millions of south Asian and African farmers from dying in floods and droughts?
Blackhalo - 'The warming deniers are almost as bad as the evolution deniers. I wonder if there is any overlap...' (earlier thread, 2:56)
Well not sure but I wonder if there is any overlap in emotionalism and a religious fervor for global warming fever without letting a reasonable debate occur on all the variables and factors of climate change research...and the need to conquer & police the world through Empire building and geo-political control...maybe there's no overlap here but emotionalism clouds both debates...
The denier label is overdone when one wants to check the research on a topic and verify it...the scientific method is an ongoing process of verifying theories with evidence...without shutting the doors on further research...
DCRogers wrote:
I dunno. I am more skeptical of its value.
For the krill:
YouTube - Crosby, Stills & Nash - To The Last Whale/Wind On The Water
A brief tour of the back office of the FDIC website reveals an OMFG element: they have an international propaganda section for spoon-feeding moral hazard enhancement to banks around the world.
FDIC: Office of International Affairs
Not satisfied with keeping the American Ream national huh?
C
merchants of fear wrote:
Well that's just science, checking the data and attempting to duplicate results/observations independently. My use of the denier label was solely in the aspect of those who oppose a view on non-scientific grounds. Of which there is a lot.
There would be govt. programs to help people below 99 feet get a low-cost mortgage.
One of the signature events of climate change is significant rainfalls in a 24 hour period, far too much all of the sudden, like what's happening in the North of England right now (bad) or like what happened in the Sierra Nevada last month. (good)
I don't post a about global warming anymore, because
it is happening. And fighting about it is boring. I wouldn't
respond to a flat earther, either.
It is possible (if unlikely), that it's not human beings are doing
it, but if the sun is doing it, we are making it worse.
Bearded Spock wrote:
That all sounds much more...logical than the statement of yours I was responding to:
Which I evidently mistook for a...claim for what forms of life will survive...just sayin'
150 years ago was 1859
look what happened then
Solar storm of 1859 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Complete with government-provided flood insurance.
Oh, wait ...
Hahahahahahahahah
HAHA Counterpointer may they need it because the Chinese want FDIC Insurance on their Dollar holdings....
Who doesn't love a sesquicentennial cell-abrasion?
Regardless of whether they're correct on the topic of climate change, they've crossed the line from science into the unethical.
I think you confused the word "unethical" with "advocacy." The leaked sampling was obviously not random, was cherry-picked to be the worst of the worst documents they could find, and of those worst documents, a few sentences were then cherry-picked and presented to us without enough context. I looked through the leaks, and I could find no real slap-in-the-face smoking guns among the emails as to them falsifying data, but I am fairly certain from this data that the parties releasing this information had a bank of individuals combing through vast amounts of information to bring this to us. That suggests to me that there is a government or wealthy private agent behind this release. That worries me.
What I was saying about global warming (an introduced topic) which I think is occuring from fossil fuel burning but haven't reviewed all the evidence is that a more immediate problem for the human race if food shortages from the global credit freeze and deflation which will kill more people faster than global warming so maybe the focus should be on preventing a global Crash which will mean more food shortages and inability to pay for food...
Well, that is interesting.
Boy would that be a disaster today!
Yoringe - My Canadian parents and relatives all say "Gesh".
Bearded Spock - My American siblings and our children all "Sheesh".
So, which is it?
gabyjan,
get your
on! a CME of similar magnitude is one of the most life changing little events that could occur literally over night given our current predeliction for solid state electronics...think planetary EMP more or less...
"... because the Chinese want FDIC Insurance on their Dollar holdings.... "
sure, if they kept it in FDIC insured depository institutions.
Solar Superstorms sound awesome.
If we get one, I'll have a generator ready for some Pink Floyd and a few hundred mics of fractal acid for my pals.
Although it would kinda suck to lose electricity for too long. I'll stock glow sticks too!
"...food shortages from the global credit freeze and deflation which will kill more people faster than global warming so maybe the focus should be on preventing a global Crash which will mean more food shortages and inability to pay for food..."
Possibly faster, but dead is dead.
Alley no clue.. may picked it up on travel from Canadians since i havent meet much US Americans..
the rest who want to do something useful -Yoringe
I hope you don't mean something as useful as trading carbon credits. I'd prefer to be useless in that case.
Hoopajoops LTD wrote:
How is that different that the Bailout or current gov't actions?
Blackhalo,
i think some people just think scammers will scam global warming the way the bailouts were a scam...
I say Geesh. Or, sheesh, interchangably.
No, you don't understand... the power doesn't just go off, it stops...everything solid state stops because the circuits just got fried except for milspec stuff that was designed to be damn near an airburst nuclear detonation and the ensuing electromagnetic pulse (EMP)
cannibal
on a scale and pace that would leave nova and cormac mccarthy breathless...
just cap the carbon. Forget trading credits.
energyecon wrote:
A generation span of krill is a tiny fraction of the generation span of krill predators. The krill will adapt first. Sheesh!
I mean I have no idea what the krill offspring or krill predator offspring of for that matter human offspring will mutate into. It depends on the fitness criteria and the blind luck of mutation. An evolutionary dead end is possible, of course, but trilobites died off too and the world still spins. If humanity dies out, then politicians and tree-hugging hippies die out too. That almost makes it worth it.
HomeGnome and pavel.chichikov, too funny! Thank you both!
after you
edit: we are saying the same thing, just with different approaches I think...
Hoopajoops LTD wrote:
Plus, when you are dealing with "leaked/hacked" data and there is no guarantee that it has not been altered by those with an agenda.
I have quite a bit of confidence that the many competing independant research climatologists have reviewed the PUBLISHED data and papers for any fault. And if there was any great agenda or plot to mislead the public, one of them would have cried foul by now. Just like they did with cold fusion.
solar storm like 1859 would fry the grid aswell so i heard from scientists.. they must be exagerating
How is that different that the Bailout or current [related] gov't actions?
Let the crooks steal paper from each other and play their little games; that is nothing new. We can live through their little machinations. Not so regarding the earth and its ability to sustain us without the need for megadeaths.
realize if you live on dawg food this may be twee:
atmospheric co2 has gone from about 280-380 ppm in the last 150 years
arrhenius described the effect of combustion produced co2 in 1896
co2 absorbs infrared and is one of the components of atmospheric greenhouse effect
human combustion of carbon products is increasing the amount of heat retained in the lower atmosphere, contributing to driving the current weather patterns
It just blows my mind that Eric Holder's ego is so big that he's willing to spend $100 million+ of U.S. taxpayer funds to make his personal political mark bringing scumbag terrorists to justice in the media capital of the world.
If I was U.S. Attorney General, I would find a hole somewhere to stuff these guys where they would never be heard from again. It would cost less than $10 million. But I wouldn't get as many kudos and ego strokes as idiot Eric.
For me, prime waterfront property. My home is at a elevation of 105 feet.
I have quite a bit of confidence that the many competing independant research climatologists have reviewed the PUBLISHED data and papers for any fault. And if there was any great agenda or plot to mislead the public, one of them would have cried foul by now. Just like they did with cold fusion.
One thing that struck me about these leaks - they're leaking emails from people engaged in public relations and policy, not climate science. It shows that the organization is involved in advocacy, and is carefully presenting its information to meet public relations goals and influence policy in a way they feel is appropriate, but it doesn't really show that they're falsifying data or engaging in bad science, at least from what I've read so far.
Hoopajoops LTD wrote:
The algae bloom story always seems to end the same way...
Blackhalo,
You can't blame people for bring suspicious of government research and data supporting something (a theory or a campaign) since people have been mislead before for example...homeownership society...bailouts...Vietnam...weapons of mass destruction, etc.
Was doing a drive-by in the Big Smoke and saw a dozen homeless polloi, but what struck me as unusual, was 3 couples, in the haul of humanity, curbside.
That's a new trend around these parts, usually it's a single guy sans money, avec cardboard sign~
It just blows my mind that Eric Holder's ego is so big that he's willing to spend $100 million+ of U.S. taxpayer funds to make his personal political mark bringing scumbag terrorists to justice in the media capital of the world.
Laws and legal due process are expensive.
In the long run, abandoning these things is even more expensive for a democratically inclined society.
merchants of fear wrote:
Pfft of THAT I have no doubt. Just like Medicare schedule D turned into a big fat gift for Big Pharma, health care reform (absent a public option) is a big fat gift for Big Insurance and TARP is a big fat gift to the
.
Blackhalo wrote:
Not a good example.
Many scientific labs have recreated the net energy release over the past 15 years.
Whatcha smoking gnomester?
rich wrote:
How marvelously circular. We shouldn't give accused terrorists their day in court to attempt to prove that they are not terrorists because they are terrorists. That's what passes for presumption of innocence and due process of law in the home of the free these days?
Cold fusion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In September 1990, Fritz Will, Director of the National Cold Fusion Institute, compiled a list of 92 groups of researchers from 10 different countries that had reported excess heat, 3H, 4He, neutrons or other nuclear effects
brilliant bearded, how much will you charge for the clubs, give us a price list, with specifications
didnt some news boob say : what if he comes free because the evidence against him was gotten through torture... just floored me!!
But doing that trial in NY is stupid.. why not somewhere else where you dont need to shut down a million ppl city for security reasons?? does NY need the Money soo much??
So Paulson lied - there have not been hundreds of bank failures..
The
concures all!
broward wrote:
But the initial claim was a well published fraud.
"Since the announcement of Pons and Fleischmann in 1989, cold fusion has been considered to be an example of pathological science."
Pathological science - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Anybody here a climatologist? No? an appeal to authority is a logical fallacy. Demanding to see conclusive evidence before reaching a conclusion is called skepticism and it is the foundation of science. The models are questionable at best. The data is inconclusive and no one has addressed the assumptions I mentioned earlier, namely is GW?CC a net good or bad and will it cost more to prevent than to live with?
have to shut down city for trial? go back to yoringe i say
SpaceWeather.com -- News and information about meteor showers, solar flares, auroras, and near-Earth asteroids
Bearded spock: ever heard of doing your own research?
We are not doing the trial for the terrorists.
We are doing it for ourselves, so that we stay a
free society. Same reason we don't do torture--err,
shouldn't do torture. Authorizing torture means somebody
has to be a torturer.
The Senators up on the Hill,
Debating the Healthcare Bill,
Never relax
Their grasp of the facts,
No matter how many they kill.
The R's need healthcare to fail,
And toward that end they bewail
The Democrat's plan
As loud as they can
In a futile attempt to prevail.
Meanwhile, debate rages on,
With the arguments made, pro and con.
But you can just bet
In the bill that we get
Any real benefits will be gone.
ll:right on
Excellent, barfly. Take a bow.
lawyerliz wrote:
I nominate Hoop.
I think he's got it in him, as long as he pictures the victim as a Boomer.
Elmer i admit i just saw some foxnews hype about it and it was like they had to prepare for a huge Al-quaida Invasion to free the guy.. and i guess you prepare for that since law enforcement USA loves to follow the most paranoid scenario it seems..
sheeeeeit, BS, lemme guess you aren't an evolutionary biologist neither...
barfly,
shirley yu jest.
Gavshire Hathaway
you have every right to be inquisitive about global warming
i have hiked and climbed up the athabaska glacier and the nisqually glacier 30 years ago and then again recently and can say to a certainty that the glaciers in te PNW are retreating
see the pegs for yourself
Global warming, photography, pictures, photos, climate change, impact, science, weather, arctic, antarctica, climate zones, glacier, arctic warming, antarctica warming, documentation, effects, effects of climate change, paleoclimate, mountain glaciers, co
but dont believe your eyes...rather think about it
CO2, a notorious greenhouse gas is being released back into the atmosphere
from where it was stored ages ago by carboniferous forests
at a rate of 30 billion metric tons per year
no big deal
have a nice day
I will say in the past warmer periods have been generally
more prosperous for humans, but we are gonna shoot way past
warmer to nearly burning up.
I tortured some hardened consonants harshly, but never caused a involuntary vowel movement.
Wordboard these pesky consonants!!!
Pushing it Juvie, pushing it.
the funniest part of the BFF was when HomeGnome got greased up for twister....
i guess thats better than snorting the wasabi last week.
Comrade Elmer Fudd wrote:
Sure, but I don't have the time or inclination to earn a degree in climatology just to resolve this issue in my own mind. I truly believe we have bigger and more immanent things to worry about, namely the zombie bank apocalypse.
If the oceans rise, we build dikes out of used tires. I'll buy a condo on Antarctica and use sunblock 3 million for the ozone hole.
Yoringe wrote:
If you have to shut down a city, your doing it wrong. Somehow we were able to try Capone and McVeigh without such absurdity. I suspect the $100 Million and city shutdowns, is just cowardly, fear mongering, rhetoric, from those with political points to make. I swear to FSM, when did Americans become such pussies?
not that your a good audience or anything.
give me some, I've been saving my comments all week...
you should not play naked oiled up twister in times of H1N1
pavel.chichikov wrote:
No dogoodism like, the great leap forward, the spanish inquisistion, 5 year plan, middle age witch hunts, cambodian killing fields McCarthyism and almost all the wars of humankind. I am more afraid of those in power or can come to power with an agenda than global warming.
By the way, JCMorgan/Chase is really really enforcing its
credit card deficiencies. Not only getting judgments, but trying
to collect 'em, which is actually rather rare.
"If the oceans rise, we build dikes out of used tires. I'll buy a condo on Antarctica and use sunblock 3 million for the ozone hole."
at the rate were going you wont recognize the earth in 50 years
whats for dinner
and
uh
bugs taking over the face of the planet ...and your face too
shine on you Crazy Dimon tends to post here on a regular basis.
Bearded Spock wrote:
?? This doesn't even scan
?? "Demanding to see conclusive evidence before reaching a conclusion" is not "skepticism", nor is it the foundation of science. (Perhaps hypothesis/test/revise is the foundation, or perhaps falsifiability, but certainly not: 'demand conclusive evidence before reaching a conclusion'.)
?? Are you a climatologist, able to evaluate models? I thought you doubted appeals to authority?
Anyhow, I know I'm being baited here, as you're showing all the signs of being a troll. Did you used to post here under another name, by any chance?
Yoringe, it's plain English isn't your first language, but don't worry, you're doing fine, my friend. Your content more than makes up for your syntax. Good to hear your views.
Thought experiment guys: if you were a judge and you were trying two men at the same time and you have to convict them both or release them both but you knew for certain that one was guilty of murder and one was innocent, what would you do?
thx, i know my english isnt perfect but its good enough to like you Healthcare rhyme
"Demanding to see conclusive evidence before reaching a conclusion is called skepticism and it is the foundation of science."
there is no such thing as conclusive evidence
only relative degrees of confidence...80%...90%...99%...etc
if you wait for 100%...well then thats a coyote moment
Yoringe wrote:
yes
I'll be eating homeless people before the bugs take over.
And you will too.
This place will be an orgy of Patrick Batemans when TSHTF.
Why would you have to convict or release them both?
How do you know guilt or innocence for certain?
You don't and you can't.
lawyerliz wrote:
You can with enough torture.
I love how we ignore the Vostok ice core data. Specifically the long term pattern. Also, how many SUV's were present in the Carboniferous? Looking through geologic time there are many instances of icehouse and hothouse conditions. The current AGW fad is driven by the need for research funds by losers that generally can't make it in the modern world. They get funding by the likes of Al Gore and then magically find a way to blame global warming for the driving factor behind whatever drivel their reasearch devolves. I am a scientist and the level of crap in most "scientific" journals drives me crazy.
Bearded Spock wrote:
I'd repeat my question: I know we're being baited here, as you're showing all the signs of being a troll. Did you used to post here under another name?
The correct answer is:
You put them both in dog runs, humiliate them, beat the hell out of them, torture their kids and them, and then leave them there to rot.
Source: John Yoo
broward wrote:
dont you mean enough
With torture, anyone will say anything.
But you knew that.
broward wrote:
Not really admissible as evidence...
lawyerliz wrote:
It's hypothetical. Just assume for the sake of argument that you are certain. The point is to see if you are willing to lock up the innocent for what you consider the greater good.
Bruce wrote:
Faith-based funding.
On the Verge of Self Mutilation
"I'll be eating homeless people before the bugs take over."
i think not for long
cannibalism leads to
encephalopathy
you will die , mad before long
read about the head hunters of new guinea
Yep, with enough
too!
the
is more fun.
bearded spock
i thought that was up to the jury not the judge, i might be wrong but i thought the judge presided over the trial
and also how could the court try two men at the same time? wouldnt their right to trial be violated?
I know perfectly well you were trying to pose a hypothetical question.
I don't want to be boxed in like that.
Bearded Spock wrote:
Pretty much.
Reality is they now wish they'd never taken them 'alive'. If this was done like in the cold war - they wouldn't have. Next time they won't have this 'problem'.
Bruce wrote:
I'd be interested in reading any formal analysis you have on the Vostok ice core data... do you have a reference?
Demanding to see conclusive evidence before reaching a conclusion is called skepticism and it is the foundation of science.
If you think science requires conclusive evidence, you obviously don't understand what science is.
The Inupiak Eskimo of Shishmaref Island north of Nome are not scientists; most lack formal education.
But they can tell you their winter is now a month shorter, and the storms eroding their coastline have steadily gotten worse.
Reading about the siege at Stalingrad, which was about as Mad Max as it gets, dead soldiers were found with their heads cracked open, and their brains missing, presumably taken and eaten by other starving soldiers.
Yoringe wrote:
NY is the perfect venue - considering where the majority of the damage occurred.
what if we all mailed
to each other, but the next person who buys the 
has to give the spot premium in the form of a tile for a week on hoocoodanode...
think about it, its the perfect ponzi to support the site...except for that last guy......
Just don't eat the brain. And cook thoroughly.
The muscle tissue is fine - and probably a lot less dangerous than the garbage coming out of our meat factories today.
People just get freaked by the social stigma.
The quicker you get over that, the quicker you eat.
New Scientist - to which I subscribe, is a comical read the last couple of years. I would venture to guess 70+ % of the articles contained in each weekly edition find that AGW is somehow responsible for whatever findings the author is researching. Pathetic....
+++++++++++++++++++++++
So why weren't the
valued @ more like $26 million, based upon how much the kind is commonly overvalued, when the coppers get their mitts on it.
lawyerliz wrote:
That's obvious, yet sometimes we are presented with such dilemmas in real life. How committed are you to the legal principle of presumption of innocence? Due process of law? If the ends justify the means, then how can you claim to be morally superior to terrorists? isn't that their rationalization for what they do?
And it might be just fine with the Eskimoes (mos?).
Me not so much. Nor other Floridians who own expensive condos
right on the beach.
The ones that aren't being foreclosed that is.
Never came across any dilemmas like that. Never knew any
prosecutors who did either.
The English common law is much bigger and fuzzier than that.
Also, I don't like it for people to write scripts for me, unless
they are Shakespeare.
Bruce, perhaps this science is good enough for you.
What is it called when the government kills people without a court-ordered death sentence or a declaration of war? What's the term?
It takes a lot of mental gymnastics to argue that it isn't state-sanctioned murder.
For those of you who don't take the impending food crisis seriously, we're already seeing some alarming rationing:
PUMPKIN PIE SHORTAGE!
Nestle Baking expects shortage of canned Libby's Pumpkin - KansasCity.com
Blackhalo wrote:
Not so. There were serious errors in the radiation measurements, but the excess heat results have been replicated enough times that it seems likely the original results were significant. Which is why the effect is still referred to as the Fleischmann Pons Effect (FPE).
the deflation of
is matched only by the deflation in Belgium Debt.
-r^2 Williem Buitler regression of pounded golden sounds.
lawyerliz wrote:
At least some Eskimos agree with you Floridians.
Bruce (profile) wrote on Fri, 11/20/2009 - 8:57 pm
I love how we ignore the Vostok ice core data. Specifically the long term pattern. Also, how many SUV's were present in the Carboniferous?
you sir are not all that much of a scientist
if you were you would know that the warmer climes of millions of years ago
were due to the CO2 in the air
that has since been locked up in oil and coal after the death and burial of those forests
and now as we return that co2 back to the atmosphere by burning fossil fuels
to experience once again, those hot house climates once again...
you ask, where were the hummers in those ancient times ....indeed
i suspect you are not all that much of a scientist , now, are you...tell us truly
who do you work for and in what capacity
my brother is a paleo geologist and supervises a group of more than one dozen scientists
he tells me that human influenced global warming is a near certainty , above a confidence level of 90%
what are your credentials and what facts would you cite to show that pumping 30 billion metric tons of CO2 into the atmosphere each year
does not warm the climate
let me hear your argument
This a quick reference. In general the AGW crowd will cherry pick the data to make a point. Do your homework and look at the long term trends. Also, look into the Pacific Decadal Oscillation. This has a major impact on North American weather patterns and is rarely referenced by the AGW crowd.
What the Vostok Ice Core Data Says About Global Warming (and, More Importantly, Cooling) « A1A South
There is an Eggo waffle shortage too!!!
rich wrote:
Well then, you are not much of an American, AND a coward.
i emplore you sir, to not take the Flying Spaghetti Monster's name in vane ... may his noodley appendages take pity on your soul.
Deflection:
Defection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
FT.com | Willem Buiter's Maverecon | Auditing the central bank: a jolly good thing!
doing one the easy way. H8TR
I wish you all would buy some tiles. I'm getting tired of the same ones over and over.
I saw a great tile possibility - a classic scene between Potter and Bailey. Unfortunately I think it was copyrighted.
I'm more interested in the massive movements of human beans leaving harsh environments for somewhere better, in our age of quick transportation...
How does it play out?
Stay tuned~
Bruce wrote:
Bruce, this is a reference to Pravda and to "The American Thinker"... do you have a scientific reference?
Trained as a geologist, thank you. But most importantly trained to think on my own rather than follow the herd....... Too many prostitutes looking for funding these days are willing to sell their souls for a $.
bruce
googled vostok ice core data chose the wiki sent it desktop to read in a few. i hope suv is the truck like vehicle? and not some scienfic term.
can you suggest a non crappie scientific journal?
bribe the spaghetti Monster with some tomatoe sauce..
re terrorists : the super ego monkey and his paranoid side dick had to prove there manlyhood by getting these guys alive and torture them... and now Obibama has the legal fallout on his hands!!
Blackhalo wrote:
FWIW: I was on the periphery for the cold fusion bruhaha. Calling it names like "Pathological science" does not do it justice.
In the worst case: It is an example of how shoddy work is reproducible. Pons and Fleischmann got their result via calorimetry, which is quite difficult and prone to error. But they had reputations for doing it well, which is why the whole story blew up.
I went to talks where folks were attempting to verify that something odd was happening via totally different measurement techniques. There were higher-order nuclei being measured well above error bars, and this was via mass spectroscopy.
The only explanations that I could come up with: 1. There is something going on that is not yet understood, or 2. Many different labs (including guys like Lawrence Livermore) had significant (and probabilistic) errors that were sufficient to imitate physics that is not yet understood.
Since I was on my way to a different field of research, I didn't follow it any further, but I left with an open mind. There were others that did pursue it, and it has consumed them for the past 20 years.
mock turtle
i think they ate the brains of their victims and that is what gave encephalopathy
key word is i think
Predict a quick pop in employment. I've been watching Dice.com daily for perhaps eighteen months and there's definitely deflationary behavior... the same jobs run month after month, and I know they're at least real enough to have done an interview. But as near as I can from my phone calls, the most marginal areas are having trouble getting what they want. Got a lot of calls for MI, MN, OH, etc this month. If the economy picks up further, it may set off a sudden reversal as employers figure out their pool is shrinking instead of growing, i.e. a positive feedback reversal.
Jobs listed for Boise this month is the most I've seen in at least six months.
Likewise Seattle, although they're heavily Amazon skewed.
Off to pool, maybe to meet somebody's cast-off girlfriend or two.
JP wrote:
Well, I've only put the last 5 into it, but having met virtually all the folks who have put the last 20 into it, my judgement is that there is probably something there.
I don't have anything substantive to add, but I'll say this before I turn in:
I've been on CR since 2006, and this is without a doubt the weirdest series of threads I've ever witnessed in succession in my time here.
Is it a full moon outside, or something?
gabyjan wrote:
Are you intentionally attempting to evade the moral issue here? it's hypothetical. How much injustice would you be willing to tolerate or inflict to keep the country safe? If the answer is anything more than zero, then how do we keep ourselves safe from you?
I have heard no convincing argument that terrorists are a bigger threat to my life or liberty than the government is. It can be further argued that it is our interventionist foreign policy that makes terrorism as much of a risk as it is.
People need to wake up.
My local 711 hasn't had name brand Oreos in 2 weeks.
And the MSM ignores it all.
Eating people is the future.
JP wrote:
Hey, far be it for me to dismiss cold fusion outright as it is the holy grail of cheap "renewable" energy. The guy who gets it first will be rich and famous. BUT it does lend itself to the "perpetual motion machine" kind of scams and the science on it, so far, is rather inconclusive. AND the INITIAL claims and science were notoriously bad.
that makes me think US wages are about to go up.
Im gonna make a strong push for that one....
Eggos and Oreos I can do without, but pumpkin pie ... oh the humanity. (actually not so concerned, canadian thanksgiving has come and gone)
They took away the Moon Pies, but I didn't eat them so I didn't care...
Very interesting.
No full moon at all, just a sliver.
Mook wrote:
Just a disappointing BFF, when traditionally there is a bit of drinking involved... So, without being able to enjoy our favorite subject (poking fun at bad banks), I think we tend to turn on our own...
OtVoSM: did the soylent green guys count for the higher fat content of todays Americans? just being courious..
First they came for the Moon Pies, but I didn't eat them so I didn't care.
We've been down this road before, friend.
On the Verge of Self Mutilation wrote:
Start with the rich - they taste the best.
must be the BFF wasnt satisfying enough
I admit to looking forward to the second wave of infrastructure money waves...should be here in Feb/Mar twentyten.
Yoringe wrote:
Once is never enough.
just read hannibal.. truffle feed investment banker sounds quite good if you are hungry
broward wrote:
Many scientific labs have discovered that this is a hideously complicated experimental system to work with. So far as I know (and I've kept tangentially up with this stuff for years) there's been no clean-cut reproduction -- yet.
That said, I'd be the first to bust open the champagne and shout their glory when some lab releases their Fusion-To-Go device to the mass market and makes billions and saves the world. But I ain't invested yet -- unlike, it appears, a number of ongoing people, which might explain the constant dribble of "encouraging news". Like I said earlier, I'm a 'skeptic'.
Obviously we start with the disabled.
It's easy and you get the 'Veal Calf Effect".
Krauthammer Dogs...mmmm
@MLM Have you encountered Peter Hagelstein? I was a lowly grad student teaching assistant for him in 1989.
@Blackhalo: The key words in my post: "open mind". I came to no conclusion, but I saw bizarre results presented by people with good reputations.
Are there wackos that latched onto it? You bet. Are there also wackos that latch onto quantum mechanics? Yep. People that try to assign religious significance to spacetime? We got those too.
If you let the wackos displace the science, there won't be a helluva lot of advancement going on.
Follow the Vostok data. There are many good papers by respected scientsits. Also dig into the Pacific Decadal Oscillation data. I believe the original/early work was done in Seattle, WA in the early 1990's.
Sudden climate changes in the recent geological
record
We are feeling whimsical and twitchy and there is nothing
to be whimsical and twitchy at.
Oh, a couple of comments, I parked at a very cheap place some
blocks away from my seminar are Biscayne Blvd. Many new
buildings, all empty at street level, and indeed most had never
had anything done at all on the inside, not even smooth concrete
flooring. Not many people walking. In the cheap crappy buildings
not on the park or water or anything, some vacancies, but lots
of business too and people walking.
I think my mom is scared of the bathtub. Hasn't used it yet.
On the Verge of Self Mutilation wrote:
Or office workers... straight from the pens.
if you need a business idea go for that..
Cogeneration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
better than working on cold fusion
Bruce
that is very sad
you sent me to a third rate website A1Asouth
which argued the long rejected notion that increases in CO2 lag but do not cause global warming
and here, as the scientist you claim to be,, i was hoping you would send me to a research or study project that had generated a report based on data that disputed the conventional and widely accepted understanding that induction of CO2 into the atmosphere was increasing global average temperatures
look
there is no doubt that the climate has warmed and cooled in the past without human intervention
the milankovitch cycle, the ebb and flow of solar output, and many other cyclical natural events have heralded changes in the earths global temperature
Milankovitch cycles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
whats going on today clearly is in opposition to those historic and pre historic influences
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/milankovitch.html
what is the matter with you?
are you a majority stock holder in exxon mobil or something
visit the two web sites i linked and get the low down on state of the art scientific thinking
stop being mysterical, it will kill us ll
JP wrote:
Just saw him in Rome a few weeks ago.
On the Verge of Self Mutilation wrote:
Uck -- but I'll gladly feed them to my dogs...
The Ding Dongs got rounded up last week at the general store, now a dime more.
Or office workers... straight from the pens.
And maybe a few CR addicts.
Well, this is stimulating conversation tonight but I think I hear my dog calling me. nytol.
gabyjan
you are right..i overstated my position ( i was wrong)
just eating the miscreants will not cause encephalopathy
its the consummation of the brain of ones own species that does it
correct you are