Thanks to rock-bottom interest rates, none of them will pay much more than a thousand dollars a month. “Everyone should have the chance to do this,” Mr. Kurland said.
Everyone may get a chance.
A few weeks ago, Congress extended the higher lending limits for another year. Representative Barney Frank, the Massachusetts Democrat who is chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, said in an interview that he planned to introduce legislation next year raising the maximum F.H.A. loan by $100,000, to $839,750.
when we get to peak delinquencies, remember to multiply the peak delinquency rate by 0.98^(-n) where n is the number of quarters since delinquencies started rising (assuming 2% of portfolio is foreclosed each quarter) for a quick estimate of how many loans did go bad
A week ago, he and a couple of buddies bought a two-unit apartment building for nearly a million dollars.
Son, around here we call that a duplex. There is no better school than experience, and a fool with not learn from any other. I'm talking about you son, you're the stupid one
You're still thinking like the law of "supply & demand" is universal.
Not with people, it's not.
It's a mental framework that occasionally rotates in and out of use, depending on circumstance and other frameworks.
Surely that's obvious by now?
Mr. Kurland and Mr. Bedar, who are employed full time, are the buyers of record. Mr. Rowland, a freelancer, will have his interests protected by a legal agreement.
any guesses as to what their break even rental rates are at this time? and how far interest rates or maintenance costs or taxes can go up, or monthly rent can fall, before they are sunk?
Well, seeing as it's the overnight thread.... Jesus Fucking Christ! WTF can we do?! That's a rhetorical question of course. As someone said earlier... they won.
I'm consoling myself with the notion that most potential sellers in SFO to buyers like these are underwater on their existing loans so would have to go the short sale route. Any validity to that?
I sincerely doubt they've thought that far ahead. Taxes alone are going to cut deeply into the pizza and beer fund.
They have something called Proposition 13 in California that limits property taxes for eternity
what I mean is, all I mean is, the truth is right in front of everyone
but all they have is two eyes
'Hard currency debt is associated with increased risks of currency and debt crises...especially when a country's macroeconomic financial fundamentals are weak.'
Note to yogi: CEF has been around since 1961. I can't remember when the 28% tax rate for precious metals came into force but at least since that time the IRS hasn't challenged the QEF election.
....idiots..........and you wonder why I think most "young adults" are "mouth-breathers". It might be OK if one of the units was where they ALL lived, but not for a cool mil.
have extra paint for the grafitti, some food for the homeless as they pass by and enjoy the daily parking experience........make sure you watch out for the fake street sweeper days every other week sometime in the day...its really a money making machine.....
the one story we haven't collected yet is a 13 year-old girl who is a big fan of Twilight, and gets an FHA loan for a house without parental knowledge so that she can live in the same neighborhood that the movie/tv show was filmed in
edit:
the accompanying picture form the article is just timeless, - NY Times
pulitzer prize stuff
This study was a 'Long Run View' with data used from 2 periods of international integration (1880-1913) & (1973-2003) for over 45 countries. -Bordo, Meissner, & Stuckler (2009)
'The lesson appears to be that sound debt management at the micro and macro level, financial development and sustainable financial positions, has allowed countries to escape financial turmoil even in the face of a high percentage of foreign currency debt.' http://www.econ.ucdavis.edu/faculty/cmm/os_growth.pdf
"Paul-Grayson “Audit The Fed” Bill Passes Financial Services Committee
By: David Dayen Thursday November 19, 2009 2:36 pm
Today, the House Financial Services Committee passed an amendment to their financial regulatory reform bill that would mandate an audit of the Federal Reserve. The Paul-Grayson amendment, named for its chief sponsors, Reps. Ron Paul and Alan Grayson, passed the committee by a count of 43-26.
Supporters of the audit the Fed effort were concerned that a competing amendment by Mel Watt would gut whatever Paul-Grayson added in transparency to the Fed. After heated discussion today inside the committee, it appears that Paul and Grayson have won this round.
The bill has yet to reach the floor of the House. The Senate’s version of financial reform, written by Chris Dodd, also has a mechanism to audit the Fed, but that has not yet been marked up in the Senate Banking Committee.
…It should be noted that an overall final vote on financial regulatory reform from the Committee, expected today, was blocked, chiefly by members of the Congressional Black Caucus, panicked about having to take the vote at a time of double-digit unemployment."
Who are these people snapping up foreclosures? Where are they getting the cash? How delusional are they that a new housing bubble will occur?
there's a lot of people expecting another tech bubble, an emerging asia bubble, a latin america bubble, a junk bond bubble, an oil bubble, a gold bubble, and any other modern bubble you can name except for a Japan bubble
wait a minute..."third partner". FHA loans need to be used on owner-occupied primary homes correct? This article smells of investment property, something which an FHA loan should not be used for.
in fact, indicating that this will be your primary residence and that not in fact being the case is now a felony in California, correct? Am I missing something here, or do these guys need to be investigated?
The NYT article says they're paying $1k ea/mo. What the hell interest rate are they getting. 5% would be ~$1500 @ 30 year fixed. I guess so long as the other unit is rented consistently for $1500 that might do it.
But now they're landlords in a city that doesn't treat landlords too kindly, in addition to all the other aggrevations.
I give the over/under on their ownership14 months.
EDIT: Oh yeah! I forgot about that. Prop tax on that baby...another $1200/mo. (SF has a bunch of add-ons over the 1% Prop 13 limit.)
posted this earlier - good thing FHA no longer requires a second appraisal on properties like this. wouldn't want it to be too tough to get a 3.5% down mortgage.
"The level of the dollar is contingent on the global and U.S. economy, Zhou said today. China has kept the yuan about 6.83 per dollar since July 2008 after allowing a 21 percent gain over the previous three years. U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner said at the hearing in Washington that he’s “quite confident” China will move to relax controls on the currency."
I am feeing even more of a Dollar beatdown coming.
Amazing! That building is exactly my mental image of what a million dollar residence should look like! Those kids are so lucky to have a government that cares about them.
"This policy requires a second appraisal when a property is resold between 91 and 180 days following acquisition by the seller, if the resale price is 100 percent (or more) higher than the price paid by the seller when the property was acquired."
That's cool. Only need a second appraisal if the property "value" doubles within 6 months. That should weed all the bad guys out.
You mean $1,500/person/month, correct? I get about $5,200/month for 30-year fixed at 5%. Not too much, though, I can't imagine what they're going to do the next time the water heat needs to be replaced, etc...
"What the hell interest rate are they getting. 5% would be ~$1500 @ 30 year fixed. "
Yeah, that math doesn't add up, does it?
The article states they bought the place for 963,000 and put down around the min, so their mortgage would be about 930,000.
Gotta figure the mortgage is a 30 year fixed am. So $1K each a month, or $3K a month P&I, is a 1.1% interest rate.
I am calling BS. Did this reporter check his story?
Either that, or these guys are already netting out what they think they can get in rent.
For a 2 unit they are probably paying more than the min, so in the range of 5.5%, just on the interest rate, not to mention the MIP. So just P&I that would be 5,280 total, or 1,760 each. Add in MIP, taxes, insurance, and it is easily $2K each a month.
Pretty typical for dudes like this - they talk a lot of smack, but are full of shit.
The Federal Reserve's balance sheet hit a new all time record of $2.19 Trillion in assets, after an unprecedented spike of over $70 billion in MBS purchases
Residential originations will decline by almost 30% next year to $1.38 trillion as rising interest rates put a crimp on new originations, according to a new forecast from Fannie Mae.
Prop 13 isn't some kind of magic tax free haven. Taxes increase 2%/yr every year. Not the most expensive, but not cheap either - especially with a $1M property.
"Mr. Kurland and Mr. Bedar, who are employed full time, are the buyers of record. Mr. Rowland, a freelancer, will have his interests protected by a legal agreement."
I wonder how the FHA feels about this, too. Side agreements on purchases? Did the underwriter know about this before they approved the loan? they might get their "eagle" pulled for this.
Speed
California is bankrupt. Maybe that means property taxes drop, maybe it means they rise. I doubt these kids have the reserve capacity in either direction to respond to market conditions
The World Gold Council's latest "Gold Demand Trends" quarterly update has been released, with the key message being that while end customer demand is collapsing (gee, the consumer must not be drinking Timmy's Kool-Aid just yet), "the central bank sector presents a positive story
In the gold mania that followed, the price rose to levels that matched the US dollar monetary base (it reached 140pc at the peak). If that were to occur today after Ben Bernanke’s go at the printing press, gold would have to reach $6,300 an ounce.
try as i might, i cant get my mind around why the black caucus would vote nay
They want their cut. Just like Leiberman and his sorry excuse of, "it costs too much" for the public option, when it actually saves money according to the CBO.
ghostfaceinvestah
I know all to sadly about math not adding up...
after a 15 months of slowly getting documents (not the ones I want like the loan history) I have now
come to the sad conclusion that my two dear brothers had what looks like a a second lien on my farm in TN
they were minority partners at 25 & 25.
I knew they were dirty a year ago when the farm sale money came in (of which I only got 79% of my share) and I suggested binding arbitration before a judge active or retired and they ran from that idea like their pants were on fire.
Looking back I realize it was the only property they owned were they could draw an extra 25k quickly.
I crunched the numbers every which way. Really sucks!
.....
on a lighter note here's my work in progress on stopping the Goldman Squid. YouTube -
" Nov. 20 (Bloomberg) -- China is passive on the value of the U.S. dollar as the level doesn’t affect the nation’s economy, central bank Governor Zhou Xiaochuan said, rebuffing criticism that the government is devaluing the yuan.
“It’s like watching a tournament,” Zhou said at the BusinessWeek CEO Forum in Beijing today. “We just watch the game. Regardless who wins or loses, the issue of whether the winner or loser benefits the spectator doesn’t arise.” "
Yeah, you really like getting negative interest rates on those t-bills.
Saw something about Mel Watt (D, NC) and BAC...
Some questioning he did at a Paul hearing about a month ago made me distrust his agenda. Sad if they let themselves be fooled into isolation, but maybe they have a strategy. I like Cummings, Towns, Lewis, and even Rangel.
The following is a list of items concerning the borrower's credit:
NO CREDIT HISTORY
Two lines of credit are necessary to apply for an FHA loan. However, in the event a borrower does not have sufficient credit on their credit report the FHA will allow substitute forms.
CHAPTER 13 BANKRUPTCY
FHA will consider appoving a borrower who is still paying on a Chapter 13 Bankruptcy if those payments have been satisfactorily made and verified for a period of one year. The court trustee's written approval will also be needed in order to proceed with the loan. The borrower will have to give a full explanation of the bankruptcy with the loan application and must also have re-established good credit, qualify financially and have good job stability.
CHAPTER 7 BANKRUPTCY
At least two years must have elapsed since the discharge date of the borrower and / or spouse's Chapter 7 Bankruptcy, according to FHA guidelines. This is not to be confused with the bankruptcy filing date. A full explanation will be required with the loan application. In order to qualify for an FHA loan, the borrower must qualify financially, have re-established good credit, and have a stable job.
got some geithner stuff last night off CNBC... hate it when they break at the most inopportune moments, also got some Chuck stuff... yeah, blame it on the Chinese... trying to figure out a goof on him and also highlight how he's in the big boys pockets... 18K miles away I still wanted to hurl!
.......
dude, that sucks, but believe me, you are not alone. i sometimes get some of the fraud reports, and you would not believe the number of cases where family members abuse each other to get a quick buck.
one thought, though, i am not a lawyer or anything, maybe lawyerliz would know more about it, but if you were the majority owner and they took out a lien that you didn't sign up for, you might have some recourse from the lender (who should have checked the title). people just can't take out liens on properties without all title holders agreeing. for example, my wife and I are both on title for our house, I couldn't get a second lien without her agreeing.
these guys are not telling the truth on their payments on the loan. FHA is a fixed rate fixed payment loan very usually. Even if their rate was 4.5% (unlikely given that the guys don't seem to have such a great credit score, based on the narrative of the NYT), their monthly payment before taxes, insurance and other things would be close to $ 4500. Add the property tax and other incidental and you get soon very close to $ 5500 a month, very conservatively.
I teach finance at a graduate school, and I use a couple of back-of-the-envelope formulas old-school Californian real estate investors have used for decades to quickly assess the prospects of an investment. If they can't get at least 1% of the current market price of the property as monthly rental income, then don't buy it. 1% of the $ 963,0000 these poor guys have overpaid for this crappy thing yierlds $9,600 a month. Because they will be living in the lower unit, we have to divide that figure by 2 to get the estimated rent they should receive to break even financially in their "investment". $ 9600 / 2 = $ 4,800 per unit. Good luck with that. Look at this real ads from SF Bay Craigslist rentals listings in the Hayes Valley just a few blocks from where the property they bought resides.
the property these guys have bought seems to be close to the duplex renting a unit at $ 2150 than the luxury one renting a unit at $ 3450. So following this logic, they did a horrible investment decision as the rental income does nos generate yield to compensate for the carrying costs of this investment.
Conversely, to assess what is the maximum price they should have paid for this thing, another useful back-of-the-envelope formula has it that you must multiply the current monlthy rental times 180, and this would result in the theoretical market value of the real estate investment . In this case, assuming the middle range rental price $ 2600 by 2 (because it is two units) by 180 is approx. $ 900,000 that would be the max price these guys sghould have paid assuming of course the units are of the midrange quality, which I do not think it is the case.
As another reader has noted, they have overpaid this is another similar property that is not a short sale neither a foreclosure just a resale unit in the area which looks even better and it has 3 units not just two like the one these guys have bought:
As the NYT article clearly points out, these guys bought for appreciation. They will be very dissapointed. Check the website Socketsite, property values in proper SF are falling significantly even in the really posh nice areas. I am from Latin American origin lkiving here for alsomost 10 years now, and let me tell you that even if there were going to be hyperinflation (which will not happen here for many reasons) real estate pricess will not go up and actually will go down, as it happened in similar situations down there. There cannot be hyperinflation in the US for several structural reasons very different from the conditions we had in Latin Am,erica. Also, we have the issue of significant del;everaging here, which is a huge force that will annihilate any attempt (which are failing miserably) of Ben and Timmay and the Giant Vampire Squid to create hyperinflation in the US.... they cannot.
So following this logic, they did a horrible investment decision as the rental income does nos generate yield to compensate for the carrying costs of this investment.
But they will make it up on the appreciation... or not.
Speaking of here at ground zero for the mortgage crisis the local flea market has a new kind of stall in addition to the counterfeit designer bags, the stolen high-end cosmetics, the produce and the livestock vendors. The gold buyers.
There were 2 stands there last Saturday, each doing a brisk business relieving people of their yellow metal - offering decent rates too. One even had a very nice Setra scale to weigh it - the kind that the cocaine dealers use. The demand for the stuff appears to be just enormous.
Me.. I bought cheap pomegranates and made pomegranate jelly - Since jams and jellies are all I'm giving for Xmas this year it was a good investment.
one thought, though, i am not a lawyer or anything, maybe lawyerliz would know more about it, but if you were the majority owner and they took out a lien that you didn't sign up for, you might have some recourse from the lender (who should have checked the title).
when we bought it I wanted to put down 50% downpayment but we settled for 25%.... I could have bought it alright but didn't want to tie up so much of my capital. closing seemed to never happen and I thought they just signed my name 7 months after... 3 years I found out my name wasn't on the deed. promises were made to fix but were carried out by the two deed holders. if that were the only property at issue I'd take the haircut and walk. unfortunately I have close to another 90+ in a 3 way unlimited partnership. if I don't take a stand here I'll never see another dime not that I ever have on the remaining props. that farm was by far the crown jewel that returned 300% gain in 9 years,,, very unique piece of property. all the props I have my name on the deed...
I wasn't even aware it was put up for sale. when I returned in August '07 someone had given a downpayment and moved in....
I (sort of) changed my mind. The over/under on these guys still being in this home is unchanged at 14 months. However, the over/under on their last payment is 7 months. (Two property tax payment cycles + 1 month). The last 7 months will be free.
I'll love the read; the information therein, well, it is what it is. I accepted that quite a while ago. Hopefully you'll help bring the rest around, because there's still time to prepare.
As I said in my post regarding this article earlier tonight the end game for housing using FHA is clear. FHA has a blank check for appropriations from the Treasury for losses. No bailout needed, it is already baked in the cake. We need some checks and balances in the system, unfortunately one side is fanatical about housing and the other side is fanatical about free markets and no regulation. It is a toxic mix and one not well suited for solving the crisis. I hate that one party (I don't care which one) controls both the legislative and executive branches.
He could -- I thought of that the moment I saved my reply. We'll see. If anyone could put forth a persuasive argument he (they?) would do it. Until then, I remain committed to a path I started 5 years ago, which is about the time where (IMHO) I knew things were ultimately headed (i.e., currency crisis). So far, so... well, good for me, not so good for most others.
mp -
Yea, don't want to knock his optimism, and he has been right in the short term impact with the QE.
I am not an economist, and the last couple of weeks has re-awoken me on how bad things are getting here. (Hawaii has some catching up to do with the west coast.)
I wish I could be positive, but I just don't see it happening here for a while.
On the plus side I still have to decide if I want to go for a secure retirement or a SFH that I can BBQ, brew, party and enjoy.
.......... :No_confused_icon: .
It's all baked in the cake, best people can do is vote the fanatics out (I mean that for both sides) and hope to return sanity to the system. But the Congress is a reflection of the American people, sharply divided about what to do about things and inflexible about anything outside their narrow beliefs.
""We’re banking on real estate,” said Mr. Kurland, 24. “Everyone expects prices to keep going up.”
That will be a hilarious joke in that particular tent city in which you will be "relocated". You can also start calling your wife ex-wife already. The sooner you start practicing, the less the pain will be...and maybe even start seeing your kids every other weekend too.
The deterioration of CRE debt is breathtaking in both speed and severity. That's why banks aren't lending. But the Treasury has their backs. The trouble will manifest in municipal failures for which there isn't enough money to paper over.
Rob Dawg - The trouble will manifest in municipal failures.
I think the failures are already here and have been for years, just the impacts have not materialized yet, or at least been admitted to.
The biggest thing I look at is lending to small biz, and overall credit for those who need it to produce something, and that I believe is still lower than the GD.
I just have a hard time feeling good about the short term future of 10 years plus.
The trouble will manifest in municipal failures for which there isn't enough money to paper over.
I wonder what Robyn is thinking now? (A couple years ago we were visited by a muni-bond investor by the screen name Robyn from S.Carolina (?) who thought we were being hysterical.)
Kauia K
back in late 85 I went out with Don henly's former girl... Swedish, didn't think I had a shot
until her best friend told me she had some sort of crush on me... sadly, it was for a few
since she was moving to VA, should have followed her... don't know about his other girls
but what I've see he's got great taste... knew this one doctor that was really good friends with
the other guy in the Eagles, turns outs he's the biggest soft touch in the world and gives and gives
until he's broke, in fact a tour they went on in late 80s was that he really needed money...
sorry for the name drop but boy that girl was a Trinity moment
mp - that's a rather selective list.
Conjure also had lotsa prediction failures.
You like to post the successes, what about the other half of the story?
edit: It's misleading to cherry-pick successes, whether it's Conjure or Cramer or Goldman Sachs or anyone.
I am less concerned with regard to the fanatics as they then to flame/cancel each other, out. Of greater concern to me, is the legacy corporatist in the Senate and Administration who have yet to become sensitive to the populist mood.
prediction's are like...
Everyone has one and they are usually full of ....
Most here have supporting data and a good story behind them.
The ones that don't get ignored, the ones that do provide a good debate forum that I enjoy reading. If I can skim through the fluff.
That's just silly. Posters on this board (and other boards) call for recessions all the time.
I wouldn't bet against CR, and I wouldn't bet against Conjure. Conflating either of them with random posters makes me think that perhaps you're just trying to needle mp.
Edit: And when they disagree, that's a learning moment for everyone. Everyone.
UCLA riots - Did not even hear of that, all work then all play stuff.
Hopefully no one was hurt and more hopefully people may realize bubble after bubble is not a good thing.
this is OT but I was looking for more Squid Attacks and of course I thought of 20,000 leagues under the sea... a classic!
notice in the official trailer the scroll they use... when Lucas did this in Star Wars people went agog YouTube - "20.000 Leagues Under the Sea" (1954) Trailer
UC police arrest 21-year-old UCLA senior, Maritza Santian. She was standing a few feet away from barricades, with a walkie-talkie, relaying police activity to a self-appointed group of “student” security.
That's pretty sophisticated, but perhaps not enough..
By CANDICE CHOI, AP Personal Finance Writer Candice Choi, Ap Personal Finance Writer – Fri Nov 20, 1:06 am ET
NEW YORK – For Citibank credit card holders, there is one way to escape the bank's rate hikes currently under way: Meet a monthly spending requirement.
Those who meet the spending minimum — in some cases $750 a month — will be able to get a rebate on their total interest charges for that month. The rebate could cover some or all of the interest rate hike. Customers also need to make payments on time to qualify for the rebate.
Without giving specifics, Citi said the monthly spending requirements and interest rate hikes will vary depending on the cardholder's credit history.
About half of its customers will be able to erase 50 percent to 100 percent of their rate increases through the rebates. Citi said its rebates will be based on interest charges for an entire balance, not just monthly charges.
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. government is having a tough time guesstimating how many small businesses failed in this recession, casting doubt on the reliability of vital data on employment and economic growth.
The formula the U.S. Labor Department designed to help it deliver timely, thorough monthly employment reports broke down in the heat of the financial crisis, miscounting the number of jobs by an estimated 824,000 in the year through March.
The most likely culprit is the so-called "birth-death" model, which the Labor Department uses to estimate how many companies were created or destroyed.
That model appears to have misjudged how many companies went out of business during the recession, meaning the labor market was even weaker than initially thought when President Barack Obama took office in January. More recent figures may still be underestimating job losses now, but it will be many months before the Labor Department is certain.
One characteristic of this recession is that it has hit small businesses especially hard, driving down demand and choking off vital sources of credit at the same time.
tg: CLASSIC!! and apropos. I didn't copy/paste the entire article but it gets even worse as one reads down. This is financial rape.
I may need to make good on my threat to go all cash, I've lived that way before in the dark ages. I'll do a boatload of buying on the internet before I do because I LOATHE paypal. (sorry CR) I live in the boonies so I don't have access to stores with everything on the planet in them plus I have some arcane interests which are only supplied through internet vendors (astronomy and stuff like that).
Government statisticians always are in a tug-of-war between trying to provide economic data quickly enough to be useful for policy makers -- and investors -- and ensuring its accuracy.
Government statisticians always are in a tug-of-war between trying to provide economic data suited enough to be useful for policy makers -- and investment banks -- and ensuring its belivabilty.
I don't have any debt thankfully, zero, zip and nada. I'm not bragging, it was by sheer luck we were able to meet that goal, timing as they say is everything. However, for those huge numbers of unemployed, jacking up interest rate payments on CCs and then saying the only way to mitigate that is to spend more is lunacy and usury. There are laws against usury but that hasn't been enforced...their are also laws, national and international, against slavery, peonage and other forms of economic and physical acts against humanity.
So the large issuers of CCs get to borrow themselves at zero interest, then hoard it at the federal reserve and get paid interest on the cash loaned, this while double digit increases are levied elsewhere to their holders. sweet.
This is akin to kicking a little old lady after she falls down and then robbing her in addition. I hope these bullies have a date Karma soon.
......this while double digit increases are levied elsewhere to their holders.
.....one of the CC providers we had a card with back in the late 80s tried this on us and lots of others - I can't remember which one, but was my first lesson of "bankers' sympathies".
the only way to mitigate that is to spend more is lunacy and usury
Technically it's not usury.
They collect a percentage fee for each transaction.
Enough transactions == income to pay for "cost of operation".
It's a surprising development.
The U.S. is pretty clearly a fascist country now, on a par with post-Crash Germany.
Most Americans don't want to see it, though, and so they won't.
"U.S. stock-index futures fell and European shares erased their gains after European Central Bank President Jean-Claude Trichet said the ECB will gradually withdraw emergency cash and Dell Inc.’s earnings trailed estimates."
Who do you see as the power brokers in this fascist state?
By definition, it's corporations.
As late as June of this year, Steve Ballmer was complaining about he needs H1B visas, even as I and my brother possessing a total of 45 years of IT experience sit watching television. This is all about fanatical greed and sociopathic need for power. Pure sickness.
Wow almost a 1% nose dive in the futures.....interesting. Will be interesting also in the Metals camp come Monday a hell of a lot of calls being made on that day in Gold and Silver.
9,187 call options at $1,300... 12,319 at $1,400 and a huge 15,658 at $1,500... plus 2,892 at $1,700... 9,696 at $2,000... and 5,189 gold call options at $2,500. These are big numbers! Either somebody knows something... or there are a lot of traders out there that want to throw their money away, regardless of the price of the option when they bought it.
broward, we see eye to eye then. I'm so sorry about the ability to work. We sweated keeping the job (husband R&D mechanical engineer) every year for well over 2 decades in academia. It sucks and it isn't fair by any stretch of the imagination. Now I'm sweating again as I see the pension fund implosion coming for state run pension plans. I'm trying to protect him in that he deserves a little no sweat time; but I think the time is quickly approaching now. We'll get told to eat cake.
.....sounds to me, broward, as if our FedGov has a difficult time making the tough decisions it must regarding H-1B worker in the American workplace. An employer of close to 100K worldwide is held at fault for a country's emmigration problems?
Nanoo - any of the "cash-back" or rebate programs for cards (Discover for one), essentially do the same thing, but this cash back program requires a minimum monthly use and on time payments. Right now, nothing is worse for a bank than an unused line of credit. It makes them no money and ties up capital.
Happy BFF - wonder what Sheila's battle plan is tonight?
I knew it was coming many years ago. When I taught at ITT in 1997, I told my students then that we were in an IT bubble which would eventually pop. In previous booms, the disruptive technology of the day had permanent layoffs in the 25% range. That's why I sold my house in 2004. It was clear that the "recovery" was false, based on the RE bubble.
Yes, a pension fund implosion was always in the cards.
Most people will have severe losses beyond what they've seen so far.
our FedGov has a difficult time making the tough decisions
That's why I said we're in a fascist country.
If Congress continues on this current path of madness, it can only end in violence.
We can not give away all jobs in the U.S. to 2 billion Indians and Chinese working for 50 cents / hour.
Just Ross Perot predicted, the tax base is being gutted even as outlays are skyrocketing.
Terry, I use a rebate card (not Discover). The credit cards that were idle were already hacked away. I know this as we had several 'reserve' cards that got canceled abruptly that we never used in early '08. What bothers me is with already high interest rates on balances, the threat is if you don't spend more we will increase the interest on that balance by double digits. So that isn't really the same as what you are talking about.
I recollect that there was an interview on Charlie Rose - person unknown - who referred to our nation as a "corporate republic".
Saw the article about Citi and requiring certain spending minimums to get the lower rates. This is one particular reason that I'm starting to appreciate Sotomaier (sp?) on the Court due to her questions/comments re fictitious legal entities. These organizations exist to profit themselves and their senior executives at the expense of all.
Honestly, I'll take penury if necessary to see that such entities are destroyed.
I've noted how frenetic the job market is now. Even those in relatively secure jobs change careers. Some years ago, I saw statistics about how often people change jobs and careers, it was stunning. Professionals, including doctors and nurses are increasingly leaving their professions for 'other work'.
The '91 recession was the shot across the bow as I have said before, that the economic paradigm wasn't sustainable. We've had bubble/burst/bubble/burst and each cycle becomes more severe, each cycle shorter in busts. Finally, after raping entire market sectors it turned to a core which was real estate. It was the very last secure, slow and unsexy way for average people to build wealth. Instead of a home being home, it became an investment to be used as such. Each bust produced countless people whose lives were forever changed, wealth concentrated to the top 5%.
We're all living in serfdom now as govt was bought and paid for, this is why we can't elect officials and change the status quo. Without huge war chests filled with money from special interests, you can't conduct a campaign. Its sick, you're right.
Quick question on the gold call options. Does that mean that they expect to be able to sell at those figures down the road? Or buy with the assumption that whatever dollar amount will be a bargain?
D'oh! This mess started in RRE, it will be exacerbated with CRE and it will end on LIVING WAGE JOBS. I don't see that end as mfg represents only 10% of the gdp. Those 'shovel ready' projects have a short shelf-life. What do people do that don't have a skill and whose hands have never picked up a shovel?
Nov. 20 (Bloomberg) -- A recovery in U.S. housing will have to wait at least until next year.
The outlook for the home market dimmed this week as residential construction and mortgage applications fell and loan delinquencies reached a record.
“I don’t think the housing crisis is over,” Mark Zandi, chief economist with Moody’s Economy.com, said in a telephone interview. “I think we’re going to see another leg down.”
New home sales may begin to pick up by the start of the so-called spring selling season, said Toll Brothers Inc., the largest U.S. luxury homebuilder. Existing house sales may take longer. Residential construction and property sales led the way out of the previous seven recessions going back to 1960, said David Berson, chief economist of PMI Group, the mortgage insurer in Walnut Creek, California.
"Residential construction and property sales led the way out of the previous seven recessions going back to 1960, said David Berson, chief economist of PMI Group, the mortgage insurer in Walnut Creek, California."
.
Isn't that CR's mantra as well? CR has been cautious in his projections - Zandi hasn't. - like many others he suffers from "Boy Who Cried Wolf" Disease.
Scott Rothstein a Republican fund raiser who contributed to Florida governor's(Republican Charlie Crist's) campaign, has been suspected but not yet accused of running a billion dollar ponzi scheme. The Miami Herald calls him a "major fundraiser" for Crist. (He also gave some money to Democrats)
What bothers me is with already high interest rates on balances, the threat is if you don't spend more we will increase the interest on that balance by double digits. So that isn't really the same as what you are talking about.
Not defending C's rate increases - the banks I worked with went with 3-5% increases, not 15+%, but I was just addressing the "legality" question you raised - the rate increases happened, but C will rebate part of the finance charges if you hit the minimum spending level per month - that was my comparison with the rebate cards. Other banks are doing a similar thing, but waiving annual fees if you spent a certain amount. - on lines of credit, the mantra at the banks is use it or lose it - they want to earn something on the capital they have tied up in CC lines of credit.
What bothers me is with already high interest rates on balances, the threat is if you don't spend more we will increase the interest on that balance by double digits. So that isn't really the same as what you are talking about.
My recommendation: get a credit card from an international bank from outside the United States. I have one: no fees, no interest so long as I pay the balance off. The catch: bank balance is high enough for them to provide that incentive.
My recommendation: get a credit card from an international bank from outside the United States. I have one: no fees, no interest so long as I pay the balance off. The catch: bank balance is high enough for them to provide that incentive
You don't have to go offshore for that - I have a Chase card, which I use for business travel - several thousand dollars a month, paid off every month - they earn enough on the interchange that I have had NO change in terms, other than the ones mandated by the already effective parts of the CARD Act.
"Other banks are doing a similar thing, but waiving annual fees if you spent a certain amount."
.....I have a tough time with banks changing the rules AFTER charges are run up. That to me is BS. They can change rates and charges for all NEW balances, but things shouldn't change mid-game. Even our FedGov keeps things consistent, constant, and ..........wait.........nevermind........
The MBA National Delinquency Survey showed 15.04% of FHA insured loans were delinquent as of the end of Q3, and another 3.32% were in the foreclosure process.
---I'm betting this trio of financial wizards will be added to these stats soon!
In an unprecedented defeat for the Federal Reserve, an amendment to audit the multi-trillion dollar institution was approved by the House Finance Committee with an overwhelming and bipartisan 43-26 vote on Thursday afternoon despite harried last-minute lobbying from top Fed officials and the surprise opposition of Chairman Barney Frank (D-Mass.), who had previously been a supporter.
A desperate, last-minute attempt to thwart the move came in the form of an amendment championed by Rep. Mel Watt (D-N.C.) and described by its supporters as more reasonable. On Tuesday, however, the Huffington Post reported that, on a close reading, his amendment would in fact decrease transparency at the Fed by adding additional restrictions.
Backers of the Watt amendment pressed their case on Wednesday by sending a letter from a "political cross section of prominent economists" backing a measure like Watt's. HuffPost reported, however, that those economists might well have be prominent, but they certainly aren't a "political cross section." Seven of the eight economists in question have extensive connections to the Fed -- and half of them are currently on the Fed payroll. Those affiliations were not noted in the letter.
I expected better of him. It's definitely an interesting counterpart to Krugman's column today, which I felt was much more reality-based. OP-ED COLUMNIST; The Big Squander - NY Times
Wonder how long it will be before we have a C4N program - cash for newspapers:
"Newspapers' ad revenue totaled $6.4 billion in the third quarter, a 28 percent drop from the same time last year, according to figures released Thursday by the Newspaper Association of America."
CC companies hate us, we're 'deadbeats' as thus far, we don't carry any revolving credit. CCs are only a convenience item, if that changes materially, then forget it. I've lived without them before and I will again that is if we don't have unseen inflation that goes into the TRIPLE digits rather than the double digits that currently exist in those necessary items like food, health care, insurance premiums of all ilks, energy, etc. Then like these other poor schmucks trying to live an ordinary life, we'll have no choice and I think that maybe what is banked on.
(AP) Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, who many Republicans have been pushing to run for governor in 2010, is instead leaning more toward a run for U.S. Senate, according to two party advisers.
"From staff, we have been hearing that he has been indicating quietly and privately recently that governor might not be the best fit for him now," one adviser said Thursday. "But the U.S. Senate could be a perfect fit for him." Source: Giuliani Leaning Toward Senate Run - CBS News
---I agree.
Congress needs another corrupt, lying bastard!
Nanoo - that is why many consumers are moving to debit or prepaid cards. They have the safety of not carrying cash. They avoid bank credit fees. They have the protection of the card brand zero liability policies. You can still shop on-line. Credit card usage is turning strongly negative, while debit and prepaid are incresing dramatically.
Grayson doesn't strike me as the type that will go away quietly. I spoke with him briefly about some other things that nobody has been able to answer for me on the Fed and M2. He is not going away on this issue.
Hey Terry, what if you have a balance of 5K, are trying to pay it off but the rates get jacked up because you aren't spending enough and adding to your debt while your job hours got cut down by 8hrs a week? This is just as an example for debate purposes.
Think that Giuliani is more concerned about being a governor of a state on the same flight path as California, albeit some ways behind. And being Senator gets him that pension.
What's that? Oh yeah, what most of us don't have...
This is why I am long Gold and Silver, very manipulated indeed. But that too is coming un-glued. I laugh when I read people think Gold and Silver is in a Bubble, if it's such a bubble why the hell does JPM hold some 12,000 plus short contracts (60 million ounces)?
When Big Gov starts giving financially snot-nosed adult-children 800 1 ounce gold eagle coins, in receipt of their $33k down-payment, you'll know that the gold bubble is raging.
homedad43
dont know when they will be putting white collar execs,but isnt it interesting the latest guy(s) robbed 7 banks in atlanta area, not as many as fdic shut down but hes getting there.of course this could just seasonal,
Hey Terry, what if you have a balance of 5K, are trying to pay it off but the rates get jacked up because you aren't spending enough and adding to your debt while your job hours got cut down by 8hrs a week? This is just as an example for debate purposes.
As I mentioend to BSR above - I agree with that change in the law. As long as you are paying off the old debt according to terms, they should not be able to jack up your rates, but at the same time, given the change in income, they bank should be able to reprice or deny NEW credit.
In my neck of the woods Terry, a whole bunch of people using debit cards at a large grocery store chain got their info stolen and charges emptied their checking accounts. Debit cards don't carry the same 'protection' as credit cards in mitigating losses or in challenging a charge from a merchant which is erroneous or in error. I'll never use one, ever, for these reasons.
As I mentioned yesterday, it will probably be next Friday's Commitment of Traders report before we can get a clear picture of what has happened around Monday's option expiry. Today's COT report will be out at 3:30 p.m... and I'm not expecting really big changes. So far, it doesn't look like either the longs nor the shorts are blinking much. The outrageous short positions in both gold and silver still exist... and the bullion banks still are going short against all new longs placed... and there hasn't been anything more than a hint of an orchestrated sell-off yet. Maybe it won't happen... and with only two trading days left to go... it's looking more unlikely with each passing hour. But, as Yogi Berra said... "It ain't over 'till it's over."
Per Ed Steers gold and Silver report.....grab this report HD, Ed is always spot on ( no punt intended.)
In my neck of the woods Terry, a whole bunch of people using debit cards at a large grocery store chain got their info stolen and charges emptied their checking accounts. Debit cards don't carry the same 'protection' as credit cards in mitigating losses or in challenging a charge from a merchant which is erroneous or in error. I'll never use one, ever, for these reasons.
I never use a PIN at the point of sale for that very reason (I run the transaction as a "credit" transaction so I get the zero liability protection). I also never use a debit card for online purchases based on similar concerns. I only use bank ATMs not the ones in the C stores - the answer is a prepaid card - not tied to your bank account. and you never have more than the balance on the card at risk.
If you exercise a call option on a futures contract, you buy the futures contract at the strike price.
Yes thank you trader, sorry I was back an forth with another board, This is why I smell something fishy with this call
**
5,189 gold call options at $2,500.**
Thanks for your reply Terry. I'm too freaking lazy to play those games and paranoid to boot. I've been physically robbed more than once including checks stolen. The only thing that saved my tail then (and I was a poor as a church mouse) is that my signature is very unusual, whoever stole them didn't know me.
You are savvy, all too many are all too trusting and not savvy. This is why its WRONG. Banking should be straight forward an BORING, not a cat and mouse game or maze.
Ordinarily, I'd consider housing starts to be a leading indicator in the business cycle, or a coincident indicator in a credit cycle. But to carry the 'gauge' analogy a bit farther, there are far too many entities who have sent their man over to alter the calibration of the gauge, and I feel it is no longer an indication of anything whatsoever.
Federal regulators on Thursday directed Flagler Bank of West Palm Beach to address concerns about its financial stability.
In a 17-page written agreement with the bank, the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta ordered Flagler to submit a plan for strengthening the board's oversight of management and operations. It also must show it can maintain sufficient capital and improve liquidity.
In addition, Flagler must retain an independent consultant to review its corporate governance and management structure. The bank may not declare or pay dividends without regulators' permission.
As to debit cards, my wife got hers jacked last Black Friday. We immediately reported it as gone and with a police report filed, the bank reimbursed us for the amount ($2K+).
The Sun recently found that the three local governments receiving most of the money sent to the valley to buy, fix and resell foreclosed houses had been able to close deals on only five houses to date even though the program is nearly halfway into its 18-month time frame.
The U.S. Housing and Urban Development Department-funded project is aimed putting brakes on the decline of neighborhoods, and the plan locally had been to buy hundreds of homes.
But officials in Clark County, Las Vegas and North Las Vegas, which have a total of $60.2 million in Neighborhood Stabilization Program dollars, said the biggest obstacles to moving faster have been ongoing changes in rules and, more recently, the volatility of real estate because of investors swooping in. The same issues have occurred nationwide, making the program a good one to learn from. $60 million to stabilize neighborhoods buys five homes - Friday, Nov. 20, 2009 | 2 a.m. - Las Vegas Sun
Arrests of illegal immigrant workers have dropped precipitously under President Obama, according to figures released Wednesday.
Criminal arrests, administrative arrests, indictments and convictions of illegal immigrants at work sites all fell by more than 50 percent from fiscal 2008 to fiscal 2009.
there are far too many entities who have sent their man over to alter the calibration of the gauge, and I feel it is no longer an indication of anything whatsoever.
.
so many of the typical "indicators" don't add up this go-around - leaves a few of us old boys shaking our heads in disgust.
.....and, ........$179-billion in Treasuries being auctioned next week? The interest alone will end up killing us.
homeGnome
ah our first "address concerns". already voted,but we are getting competition on our bff with all these bank robberies,according to the fbi most bank robberies take place from 9am to 1 pm on fridays. so what about a brf to go along with bff?
That couldn't be because they left when the work dried up? I know that is the case here. There was a mass exodus of illegal workers when the boom went bust in construction. Has little to do with the administration and a whole lot to do with the economy.
New England Patriots [team stats] owner Robert Kraft will get his pedestrian bridge connecting Gillette Stadium with a potential office park site he owns across Route 1 in Foxboro, thanks to $9 million in federal stimulus money approved yesterday by a state panel.
The Metropolitan Planning Organization OK’d the funds on a 13-1 vote.
True enough. I'm living outside of the US and just making the point that many banks I deal with overseas don't feel the need to *ssfist their customers. There is a realization that if their customers like a service, they might like more services from that business.
I call that "lemonade stand" common sense. We seem to be losing that in 'merica.
I'll clue you in to the whole bullion-numismatic angle...
Evangelicals have been like sales putty in the hands of boiler-room coin dealers, because anybody with a rigid group-think angle is easy pickings on the phone, as far as separating them from their money.
The angle of the dangle has always been to switch them from low profit bullion, to numismatic coins, instead. The evangs were more susceptible than most, as gold & silver are mentioned in the bible, and hopefully a good many of them bought old collectible coins that will plummet in value along with every other collectible, but a lot of them are sitting on precious metals they bought in the past decade/s and doing better than anybody else in the country financially (aside from assorted Unabankers) right now.
That's the reason the boiler-room coin dealers are on drudge, rush, sean and all the righty-tighty-gawdalmighty news sources, the sales vein was and continues to be quite wide there.
The evangs are the Americans that aspire to be Indian (think Mumbai, not Manhattan) and if the shit hits the fan and the dollar is woefully debauched, much like they did politically in electing King George II to not one, but 2 reigns, they will hold the financial reins, as they are the only cohesive group with real money in our country.
I plugged it into a mortgage calculator and got something closer to $6200/month. Seriously, aside from the idiot comment that they are counting on prices to go up, and they don't seem to have priced in the potential damage to the California economy yet to come, this doesn't seem like the most horrible transaction I have ever heard of. They are young and I assume they will live in the apartments and have roommates. It may not be the nicest area in SF, but it is central. I have friends living there who pay $1400/month to rent a room in a condo. That was pretty much the going rate a year ago. Prices may not go up again, but I don't think they will ever be reasonable by normal US standards (i.e. oustide of Manhattan and SF proper).
Not as crazy as what I've seen locally in crappy flyoverland Austin, Texas. October sales were up 38% over a year ago (and the prices were up to)because of the stupid tax credit. People are paying $250K for 1950 bungalos that were selling for $80K 10 years ago. But according to the relitters Texas never had a bubble. This after 5 years of denying the bubble and two years of crisis, everyone is ready to party like it's 2004 again. This country is too stupid to handle wealth, and it deserves whatever comes next.
I think loans is a strong word.. how about 'gifts'. It's only a loan if someone can pay it back.
~splat
sp.
"Moron FHA Loans"...
Low Down Payments
Expectations for higher prices
Pooled "Investors"
I think I've seen this before
probably won't end badly for them:
"they had only a little cash to bring to the table..."
This is truly horrifying.
"two-unit apartment building for nearly a million dollars"
Out in the sticks, we call that a "duplex"
also from the story:
"Real estate agents say the insurance is such a good deal that there will soon be many more."
this is what I am telling you - get an FHA mortgage, the put option (aka insurance) is grossly underpriced.
Actually, it will end well...for the banks who are made whole in this transaction. For you and I? Not so much.
yogi, I posted an answer to your CEF tax question in the prior thread.
Thanks to rock-bottom interest rates, none of them will pay much more than a thousand dollars a month. “Everyone should have the chance to do this,” Mr. Kurland said.
Everyone may get a chance.
A few weeks ago, Congress extended the higher lending limits for another year. Representative Barney Frank, the Massachusetts Democrat who is chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, said in an interview that he planned to introduce legislation next year raising the maximum F.H.A. loan by $100,000, to $839,750.
His bill would make the new limits permanent.
And here's a photo of those financial wizards:
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/11/20/business/20limits_CA0/popup.jpg
Ya, dude. Here's your $800,000 loan - pay me back, k?
"Dude, What's my collateral.?"
Without more, I don't see why being a foreign fund trumps the "collectible" status.
Counterintuitive, in fact. I'd need a cite.
so the FHA allowed Mr. Rowland to become a landlord. how exactly does that promote home ownership?
"They put down about $33,000, split among the three of them."
"for which they paid $963,000,"
33/963 = 3.5%
ghostface
33k is probably these guys life savings. They lose 100%. Taxpayers only lose 500k
This will accelerate price discovery. Not.
Bank of Japan Keeps Rate at 0.1% as Kan Urges Deflation Fight - Bloomberg.com
back to a meltdown already in progress...
Tim waiting for 2012 wrote:
I will gladly pay you Tuesday, for $839,750 today...
Honest to Glod this (Hayes Valley Duplex) is a price cut over last year believe-it-or-not.
when we get to peak delinquencies, remember to multiply the peak delinquency rate by 0.98^(-n) where n is the number of quarters since delinquencies started rising (assuming 2% of portfolio is foreclosed each quarter) for a quick estimate of how many loans did go bad
Son, around here we call that a duplex. There is no better school than experience, and a fool with not learn from any other. I'm talking about you son, you're the stupid one
Speed wrote:
lol, comments ESP
Rob Dawg wrote:
You're still thinking like the law of "supply & demand" is universal.
Not with people, it's not.
It's a mental framework that occasionally rotates in and out of use, depending on circumstance and other frameworks.
Surely that's obvious by now?
EHP
God I wish I Morgan Freeman was here. he would love talking some sense into these kids and he loves using the word "son"
BTW
Hayes Valley near SF city Hall is a neighborhood in decline. Ask the store owners in the area.
"Some F.H.A. borrowers here say they have the cash for a full down payment but would rather invest it in the stock market or use it for remodeling."
Perverse unintended (?) consequence...incentivizes all to put down only the minimum even if you have more.
No bailout required for FHA. Sure...
A call option, free housing, ...
I wonder if he's collecting Freelancer insurance.
My hair is on fire again.
I was going to save this pic for next week, but perhaps CR would like to make the blog PG-13 and update the article to include this:
wtf have you done in written with fluorescent lights
YouTube - Pete DeFazio Slams Tim Geithner & Larry Summers
Pete DeFazio Slams Tim Geithner & Larry Summers
Tim waiting for 2012 wrote:
Which he might'a known had he not just moved from New York.
any guesses as to what their break even rental rates are at this time? and how far interest rates or maintenance costs or taxes can go up, or monthly rent can fall, before they are sunk?
Can't help you there. All I can say is that I have bought and sold CEF since 2002 and have never been challenged by the IRS.
edit: nor has anybody else to my knowledge.
Well, seeing as it's the overnight thread.... Jesus Fucking Christ!
WTF can we do?! That's a rhetorical question of course. As someone said earlier... they won. 
'In the shadows...'
'Foreign Currency Debt, Financial Crises, and Economic Growth' (August 2009)
'Remaining issues' -
'...sudden stops and contagion still lurk in the shadows.'
'...there are prospects for further turbulence in the developing world.'
http://www.econ.ucdavis.edu/faculty/cmm/os_growth.pdf
Suffern Ace wrote:
A vagrant, too, then?
It's too bad this didn't appear in The Onion first.
Republicans want hearings on FHA - Mortgage Insider : The Orange County Register
I'm consoling myself with the notion that most potential sellers in SFO to buyers like these are underwater on their existing loans so would have to go the short sale route. Any validity to that?
*interest rates or maintenance costs or taxes *
I sincerely doubt they've thought that far ahead. Taxes alone are going to cut deeply into the pizza and beer fund.
WTH! a couple of buddies? that sounds like a secure deal...
RE: If you want to just buy some CEF and hold it long term, do you have to file form 8621 every year to get the 15% rate when you finally sell?
Tim waiting for 2012 wrote:
map of bay area
digalert wrote:
How To Ruin Friends And Lose Allies: ECON 451
so does each half of the duplex qualify for the $8K?
EvilHenryPaulson wrote:
Signing in only to say thanks for a really good laugh.
Goodnight.
Hey my bet has a chance: Geithner out <year (Jan. 20.)
Maybe we should view FHA as a PPIP for the commoner.
Speed wrote:
They have something called Proposition 13 in California that limits property taxes for eternity
what I mean is, all I mean is, the truth is right in front of everyone
but all they have is two eyes
Hoocoodanode?
'Hard currency debt is associated with increased risks of currency and debt crises...especially when a country's macroeconomic financial fundamentals are weak.'
http://www.econ.ucdavis.edu/faculty/cmm/os_growth.pdf
Yes you do but it isn't a big deal.
Note to yogi: CEF has been around since 1961. I can't remember when the 28% tax rate for precious metals came into force but at least since that time the IRS hasn't challenged the QEF election.
And they very likely overpaid:
1172-1174 Fell St, San Francisco, CA, 94117 - MLS #361101 - Multi-Family Home real estate - REALTOR.com®
TJ and The Bear wrote:
That does not end well. If the public finds out how many dead bodies, er bad debt is hidden there...
....idiots..........and you wonder why I think most "young adults" are "mouth-breathers". It might be OK if one of the units was where they ALL lived, but not for a cool mil.
Blackhalo wrote:
They'll rush in for their fair share?
Allen C wrote:
Whatever happened to that "plan?"
If I knew I was going to be photographed for publication in the New York Times, I would have worn a suit.
These kids couldn't find their asses with both hands.
broward wrote:
Use of FHA Loans Continues To Soar | FHA Mortgage Guide
Um, yeah.
My question is, why go to the trouble of losing money on real estate when it's so easy to buy negative rate T-bills?
Speed
That listing is right next to 2 gas stations on two of the busiest streets in the city. Area=crap that might explain the price
neg rate bills....
To any fund manager out there lookinfg to buy t-bills....call me at 800 555-1469
i promise if you give me 100,532 today, i'll give you your 100,000 back in january....I'll do this on any quantity of bonds you need
I wish them good luck...
have extra paint for the grafitti, some food for the homeless as they pass by and enjoy the daily parking experience........make sure you watch out for the fake street sweeper days every other week sometime in the day...its really a money making machine.....
mp wrote:
Not a problem, because they found yours and mine!
No shit.
And that's what really pisses me off.
the one story we haven't collected yet is a 13 year-old girl who is a big fan of Twilight, and gets an FHA loan for a house without parental knowledge so that she can live in the same neighborhood that the movie/tv show was filmed in
edit:
the accompanying picture form the article is just timeless, - NY Times
pulitzer prize stuff
Who are these people snapping up foreclosures? Where are they getting the cash? How delusional are they that a new housing bubble will occur?
This study was a 'Long Run View' with data used from 2 periods of international integration (1880-1913) & (1973-2003) for over 45 countries. -Bordo, Meissner, & Stuckler (2009)
'The lesson appears to be that sound debt management at the micro and macro level, financial development and sustainable financial positions, has allowed countries to escape financial turmoil even in the face of a high percentage of foreign currency debt.'
http://www.econ.ucdavis.edu/faculty/cmm/os_growth.pdf
ot
but
inquiring minds want to know
FDL News Desk » Paul-Grayson “Audit The Fed” Bill Passes Financial Services Committee
"Paul-Grayson “Audit The Fed” Bill Passes Financial Services Committee
By: David Dayen Thursday November 19, 2009 2:36 pm
Today, the House Financial Services Committee passed an amendment to their financial regulatory reform bill that would mandate an audit of the Federal Reserve. The Paul-Grayson amendment, named for its chief sponsors, Reps. Ron Paul and Alan Grayson, passed the committee by a count of 43-26.
Supporters of the audit the Fed effort were concerned that a competing amendment by Mel Watt would gut whatever Paul-Grayson added in transparency to the Fed. After heated discussion today inside the committee, it appears that Paul and Grayson have won this round.
The bill has yet to reach the floor of the House. The Senate’s version of financial reform, written by Chris Dodd, also has a mechanism to audit the Fed, but that has not yet been marked up in the Senate Banking Committee.
…It should be noted that an overall final vote on financial regulatory reform from the Committee, expected today, was blocked, chiefly by members of the Congressional Black Caucus, panicked about having to take the vote at a time of double-digit unemployment."
CR - you need to add a new "smiley". A tube of caulk.
Other people's money
Yankee wrote:
there's a lot of people expecting another tech bubble, an emerging asia bubble, a latin america bubble, a junk bond bubble, an oil bubble, a gold bubble, and any other modern bubble you can name except for a Japan bubble
Wow.
Unbelievable news mock turtle, I forgot it from this aft.
MockT - you are killing me. Stop using that 4 letter word: Dodd. Just substitute all references of him to Beezelbub.
thank you.
wait a minute..."third partner". FHA loans need to be used on owner-occupied primary homes correct? This article smells of investment property, something which an FHA loan should not be used for.
in fact, indicating that this will be your primary residence and that not in fact being the case is now a felony in California, correct? Am I missing something here, or do these guys need to be investigated?
of course, the all-powerful senate will cockblock atf...
FHA covers 1-4 family housing up to 1.4M in many parts of cali.
FHA Loan Limits for CALIFORNIA
Mock: wouldn't it be cool if the Cong. Black Caucus got paid a bundle to vote nay, knowing it would pass anyway?
Wouldn't be the first time, no doubt.
yes, but I am talking your typical SFH in suburbia. Why would anyone buy these en masse? Flipping is SO 2004.
quint wrote:
Yes, the other two will be residing and this guy is only secured by a partnership agreement, not the deed.
BTW- Although Prop 13 limits the tax, they're still on the hook for about 1K a month assuming a million dollar assessment.
The NYT article says they're paying $1k ea/mo. What the hell interest rate are they getting. 5% would be ~$1500 @ 30 year fixed. I guess so long as the other unit is rented consistently for $1500 that might do it.
But now they're landlords in a city that doesn't treat landlords too kindly, in addition to all the other aggrevations.
I give the over/under on their ownership14 months.
EDIT: Oh yeah! I forgot about that. Prop tax on that baby...another $1200/mo. (SF has a bunch of add-ons over the 1% Prop 13 limit.)
“I have always depended on the kindness of strangers,”
posted this earlier - good thing FHA no longer requires a second appraisal on properties like this. wouldn't want it to be too tough to get a 3.5% down mortgage.
http://www.hud.gov/offices/adm/hudclips/letters/mortgagee/files/09-48ml.pdf
"The level of the dollar is contingent on the global and U.S. economy, Zhou said today. China has kept the yuan about 6.83 per dollar since July 2008 after allowing a 21 percent gain over the previous three years. U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner said at the hearing in Washington that he’s “quite confident” China will move to relax controls on the currency."
I am feeing even more of a Dollar beatdown coming.
Zhou Says China ‘Passive’ as Dollar Drop Pulls Yuan (Update1) - Bloomberg.com
Amazing! That building is exactly my mental image of what a million dollar residence should look like! Those kids are so lucky to have a government that cares about them.
In case anyone hasn't already seen this...
Bob Toll "Yesterday’s subprime is today’s FHA. It’s a definite train wreck" | zero hedge
"This policy requires a second appraisal when a property is resold between 91 and 180 days following acquisition by the seller, if the resale price is 100 percent (or more) higher than the price paid by the seller when the property was acquired."
That's cool. Only need a second appraisal if the property "value" doubles within 6 months. That should weed all the bad guys out.
You mean $1,500/person/month, correct? I get about $5,200/month for 30-year fixed at 5%. Not too much, though, I can't imagine what they're going to do the next time the water heat needs to be replaced, etc...
mp wrote:
That's great for you, but why expect it for others? Not everyone wears suits to do business.
Mock,
So will the Audit the Fed bill be finished by the House on schedule by the 2nd week of December you think?
"What the hell interest rate are they getting. 5% would be ~$1500 @ 30 year fixed. "
Yeah, that math doesn't add up, does it?
The article states they bought the place for 963,000 and put down around the min, so their mortgage would be about 930,000.
Gotta figure the mortgage is a 30 year fixed am. So $1K each a month, or $3K a month P&I, is a 1.1% interest rate.
I am calling BS. Did this reporter check his story?
Either that, or these guys are already netting out what they think they can get in rent.
For a 2 unit they are probably paying more than the min, so in the range of 5.5%, just on the interest rate, not to mention the MIP. So just P&I that would be 5,280 total, or 1,760 each. Add in MIP, taxes, insurance, and it is easily $2K each a month.
Pretty typical for dudes like this - they talk a lot of smack, but are full of shit.
I finally started exploring the FHA neighborhood watch site to check on local banks and loans. Pretty interesting. Link.
Merchants
i recall reading somewhere
scheduled for vote of the full house first week december, but i have my doubts
The bill creating the Fed in 1913 was passed by Congress on Christmas eve...quickly or so the story goes...
In other housing news:
Fed Balance Sheet Hits Record $2.2 Trillion In Assets On $71 Billion Weekly Increase In MBS | zero hedge
The Federal Reserve's balance sheet hit a new all time record of $2.19 Trillion in assets, after an unprecedented spike of over $70 billion in MBS purchases
Meredith Whitney Most Pessimistic About Plummeting Credit Card Lines; Fed's Meddling In MBS And Agency Purchases | zero hedge
MW is most worried about the termination of MBS purchases by the Fed in March 2010. She notes that the only natural buyer of "GSE" paper is the Fed
Mortgage volume to tank 30% next year - Mortgage Insider : The Orange County Register
Residential originations will decline by almost 30% next year to $1.38 trillion as rising interest rates put a crimp on new originations, according to a new forecast from Fannie Mae.
Come back CurrentlySmokingCannabis
Prop 13 isn't some kind of magic tax free haven. Taxes increase 2%/yr every year. Not the most expensive, but not cheap either - especially with a $1M property.
1CN-Y
try as i might, i cant get my mind around why the black caucus would vote nay
whats the pay-off
the double digit unemployment thing doesnt make sense to me and searching the tubz i cant find an explanation
TJ,
Cheery prospects...it's the holiday season coming...Bah humbug!
btw, the MIP is 1.75% up front, and if financed into the loan increases it to 946k and change.
The monthly MIP is .55% (/12), so 930*.55%/12 = 426/mo.
I guess "around a thousand per month" needs to be interpreted liberally.
Yankeee
hummm
dodd as Beezelbub. Evil
yeah that could work
but hey, i gotta confess i am a diest who believes in redemption
so if dodd, or er uh i mean beezelbub. turns to the light
by supporting a paul grayson type fed audit in the senate version
then he will only be one hail mary, one act of contrition and one stab the squid in it eye away from salvation
"Mr. Kurland and Mr. Bedar, who are employed full time, are the buyers of record. Mr. Rowland, a freelancer, will have his interests protected by a legal agreement."
I wonder how the FHA feels about this, too. Side agreements on purchases? Did the underwriter know about this before they approved the loan? they might get their "eagle" pulled for this.
Speed
California is bankrupt. Maybe that means property taxes drop, maybe it means they rise. I doubt these kids have the reserve capacity in either direction to respond to market conditions
In San Diego, we couldn't make a 760K 6 unit place pencil out. If we could, that''s what we would have sold it for, Ha!
good numbers breakdowns ghostfaceinvestah
"Their building, for which they paid $963,000, is on a quiet street in the up-and-coming Hayes Valley neighborhood"
Is there a different Hayes Valley in the city that I don't know about?
For those that didn't get enough
in the last thread...
Gold Holdings By Country | zero hedge
The combined official holdings for all countries amounts to 30 thousand tonnes, which at today's spot value of $1,143 amount to $1.1 trillion.
World Gold Council Provides Third Quarter Update Of Gold Demand Trends | zero hedge
The World Gold Council's latest "Gold Demand Trends" quarterly update has been released, with the key message being that while end customer demand is collapsing (gee, the consumer must not be drinking Timmy's Kool-Aid just yet), "the central bank sector presents a positive story
Is $6,300 fair value for gold? – Telegraph Blogs
In the gold mania that followed, the price rose to levels that matched the US dollar monetary base (it reached 140pc at the peak). If that were to occur today after Ben Bernanke’s go at the printing press, gold would have to reach $6,300 an ounce.
good nite
see you all for bff
may sheila wield the sword of justice with mighty righteousness
against one of the big fat ones
mock turtle wrote:
They want their cut. Just like Leiberman and his sorry excuse of, "it costs too much" for the public option, when it actually saves money according to the CBO.
ghostfaceinvestah
I know all to sadly about math not adding up...
after a 15 months of slowly getting documents (not the ones I want like the loan history) I have now
come to the sad conclusion that my two dear brothers had what looks like a a second lien on my farm in TN
they were minority partners at 25 & 25.
I knew they were dirty a year ago when the farm sale money came in (of which I only got 79% of my share) and I suggested binding arbitration before a judge active or retired and they ran from that idea like their pants were on fire.
Looking back I realize it was the only property they owned were they could draw an extra 25k quickly.
I crunched the numbers every which way. Really sucks!
.....
on a lighter note here's my work in progress on stopping the Goldman Squid. YouTube -
Proof Asian bankers can lie as much as US bankers.
Zhou Says China ‘Passive’ as Dollar Drop Pulls Yuan (Update1) - Bloomberg.com
" Nov. 20 (Bloomberg) -- China is passive on the value of the U.S. dollar as the level doesn’t affect the nation’s economy, central bank Governor Zhou Xiaochuan said, rebuffing criticism that the government is devaluing the yuan.
“It’s like watching a tournament,” Zhou said at the BusinessWeek CEO Forum in Beijing today. “We just watch the game. Regardless who wins or loses, the issue of whether the winner or loser benefits the spectator doesn’t arise.” "
Yeah, you really like getting negative interest rates on those t-bills.
TJ,
has most gold by far...China is down the list of gold holdersby country...tried to link that ZH earlier for Rich...
U.S. (
Saw something about Mel Watt (D, NC) and BAC...
Some questioning he did at a Paul hearing about a month ago made me distrust his agenda. Sad if they let themselves be fooled into isolation, but maybe they have a strategy. I like Cummings, Towns, Lewis, and even Rangel.
FHA strict guidelines
The following is a list of items concerning the borrower's credit:
NO CREDIT HISTORY
Two lines of credit are necessary to apply for an FHA loan. However, in the event a borrower does not have sufficient credit on their credit report the FHA will allow substitute forms.
CHAPTER 13 BANKRUPTCY
FHA will consider appoving a borrower who is still paying on a Chapter 13 Bankruptcy if those payments have been satisfactorily made and verified for a period of one year. The court trustee's written approval will also be needed in order to proceed with the loan. The borrower will have to give a full explanation of the bankruptcy with the loan application and must also have re-established good credit, qualify financially and have good job stability.
CHAPTER 7 BANKRUPTCY
At least two years must have elapsed since the discharge date of the borrower and / or spouse's Chapter 7 Bankruptcy, according to FHA guidelines. This is not to be confused with the bankruptcy filing date. A full explanation will be required with the loan application. In order to qualify for an FHA loan, the borrower must qualify financially, have re-established good credit, and have a stable job.
FDL News Desk » Paul-Grayson “Audit The Fed” Bill Passes Financial Services Committee [comment 4]
got some geithner stuff last night off CNBC... hate it when they break at the most inopportune moments, also got some Chuck stuff... yeah, blame it on the Chinese... trying to figure out a goof on him and also highlight how he's in the big boys pockets... 18K miles away I still wanted to hurl!
.......
"I know all to sadly about math not adding up..."
dude, that sucks, but believe me, you are not alone. i sometimes get some of the fraud reports, and you would not believe the number of cases where family members abuse each other to get a quick buck.
one thought, though, i am not a lawyer or anything, maybe lawyerliz would know more about it, but if you were the majority owner and they took out a lien that you didn't sign up for, you might have some recourse from the lender (who should have checked the title). people just can't take out liens on properties without all title holders agreeing. for example, my wife and I are both on title for our house, I couldn't get a second lien without her agreeing.
of course, if they forged your signature...
nice video, though!!! LOL!!
gotta go, lots of HFT to do tomorrow...
MoF,
Those unaudited reserves rank right up their with Saudi oil.
these guys are not telling the truth on their payments on the loan. FHA is a fixed rate fixed payment loan very usually. Even if their rate was 4.5% (unlikely given that the guys don't seem to have such a great credit score, based on the narrative of the NYT), their monthly payment before taxes, insurance and other things would be close to $ 4500. Add the property tax and other incidental and you get soon very close to $ 5500 a month, very conservatively.
I teach finance at a graduate school, and I use a couple of back-of-the-envelope formulas old-school Californian real estate investors have used for decades to quickly assess the prospects of an investment. If they can't get at least 1% of the current market price of the property as monthly rental income, then don't buy it. 1% of the $ 963,0000 these poor guys have overpaid for this crappy thing yierlds $9,600 a month. Because they will be living in the lower unit, we have to divide that figure by 2 to get the estimated rent they should receive to break even financially in their "investment". $ 9600 / 2 = $ 4,800 per unit. Good luck with that. Look at this real ads from SF Bay Craigslist rentals listings in the Hayes Valley just a few blocks from where the property they bought resides.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/1473057330.html
$2600 / 2br - Huge, Modern, 2bd/2(full)bath, in PERFECT location!! (hayes valley) (map)
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/1470403245.html
$2150 / 2br - Beautiful 2-Bedroom Duplex Pad in Hip Hayes Valley Area (hayes valley) (map)
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/1473269142.html
$3450 / 2br - Stunning 2BR Apartment with Private South-Facing Garden (hayes valley) (map)
the property these guys have bought seems to be close to the duplex renting a unit at $ 2150 than the luxury one renting a unit at $ 3450. So following this logic, they did a horrible investment decision as the rental income does nos generate yield to compensate for the carrying costs of this investment.
Conversely, to assess what is the maximum price they should have paid for this thing, another useful back-of-the-envelope formula has it that you must multiply the current monlthy rental times 180, and this would result in the theoretical market value of the real estate investment . In this case, assuming the middle range rental price $ 2600 by 2 (because it is two units) by 180 is approx. $ 900,000 that would be the max price these guys sghould have paid assuming of course the units are of the midrange quality, which I do not think it is the case.
As another reader has noted, they have overpaid this is another similar property that is not a short sale neither a foreclosure just a resale unit in the area which looks even better and it has 3 units not just two like the one these guys have bought:
http://www.trulia.com/property/1088497209-747-Waller-St-San-Francisco-CA-94117
this property is selling for $ 849,000
As the NYT article clearly points out, these guys bought for appreciation. They will be very dissapointed. Check the website Socketsite, property values in proper SF are falling significantly even in the really posh nice areas. I am from Latin American origin lkiving here for alsomost 10 years now, and let me tell you that even if there were going to be hyperinflation (which will not happen here for many reasons) real estate pricess will not go up and actually will go down, as it happened in similar situations down there. There cannot be hyperinflation in the US for several structural reasons very different from the conditions we had in Latin Am,erica. Also, we have the issue of significant del;everaging here, which is a huge force that will annihilate any attempt (which are failing miserably) of Ben and Timmay and the Giant Vampire Squid to create hyperinflation in the US.... they cannot.
Conjure will soon be making a recession call.
mp wrote:
Will that be issued with the communique, or did I miss that? Please tell me I didn't miss that!
Hernan El Perro wrote:
But they will make it up on the appreciation... or not.
You didn't miss it.
He's working on a forecast, which will be available for download.
Speaking of
here at ground zero for the mortgage crisis the local flea market has a new kind of stall in addition to the counterfeit designer bags, the stolen high-end cosmetics, the produce and the livestock vendors. The gold buyers.
There were 2 stands there last Saturday, each doing a brisk business relieving people of their yellow metal - offering decent rates too. One even had a very nice Setra scale to weigh it - the kind that the cocaine dealers use. The demand for the stuff appears to be just enormous.
Me.. I bought cheap pomegranates and made pomegranate jelly - Since jams and jellies are all I'm giving for Xmas this year it was a good investment.
mp wrote:
Awesome.
Winston wrote:
Make me wonder where it, and the C4Au ends up...
TJ, you may not like it.
ghostfaceinvestah wrote:
mp wrote:
mp,
Please send a Macanudo and some scotch (preferably legal to vote) the hirsute one's way - bill it to timmah...
I (sort of) changed my mind. The over/under on these guys still being in this home is unchanged at 14 months. However, the over/under on their last payment is 7 months. (Two property tax payment cycles + 1 month). The last 7 months will be free.
Maybe they DID study eCONomics.
Hah!
Winston wrote:
Back in '06(?) me and a few others were questioning a coin dealer on Ben Jones' "Money & Metals" blog about getting into that biz ourselves.
mp wrote:
I'll love the read; the information therein, well, it is what it is. I accepted that quite a while ago. Hopefully you'll help bring the rest around, because there's still time to prepare.
It's pretty obvious who's behind all this gold business.
As I said in my post regarding this article earlier tonight the end game for housing using FHA is clear. FHA has a blank check for appropriations from the Treasury for losses. No bailout needed, it is already baked in the cake. We need some checks and balances in the system, unfortunately one side is fanatical about housing and the other side is fanatical about free markets and no regulation. It is a toxic mix and one not well suited for solving the crisis. I hate that one party (I don't care which one) controls both the legislative and executive branches.
MP wrote:
Could he mean, TJ, that the forecast is for something other than
to the moon?
El Lurko wrote:
He could -- I thought of that the moment I saved my reply. We'll see. If anyone could put forth a persuasive argument he (they?) would do it. Until then, I remain committed to a path I started 5 years ago, which is about the time where (IMHO) I knew things were ultimately headed (i.e., currency crisis). So far, so... well, good for me, not so good for most others.
I hope the Conjurecast can devote a few lines to the likely shock withdrawal of QE is sure to cause.
@Effective Demand-
Not that I disagree with the rest of your post, but I ABSOLUTELY AGREE with the first three sentences.
Now what?
Looks like Nikki got the right dose of meds by the end of trading. Yerp futes are brutal.
C
--CR in reverse postings...
..shows that delinquencies are rising steadily on loans originated over the last two years. Not good.
No worries ...
As the unemployment rate continues to rise, the mortgage delinquency rate will increase too.
--No comment.
So is this the end of his optimism or just The End of The Innocence?
YouTube - Don Henley-The End of The Innocence
Rob Dawg wrote:
Rock and a hard place.
TJ and The Bear
-Rob Dawg wrote:
-the likely shock withdrawal of QE is sure to cause
Rock and a hard place.
Ground salt.
"Choose the form of the Destructor..."
ok this time it is
In January of last year, although CR expected a recession, he didn't expect it to be severe.
energyecon wrote:
Cthulu the great squid of legend.
mp -
Yea, don't want to knock his optimism, and he has been right in the short term impact with the QE.
I am not an economist, and the last couple of weeks has re-awoken me on how bad things are getting here. (Hawaii has some catching up to do with the west coast.)
I wish I could be positive, but I just don't see it happening here for a while.
On the plus side I still have to decide if I want to go for a secure retirement or a SFH that I can BBQ, brew, party and enjoy.
.......... :No_confused_icon: .
KK,
There is a "puzzled" icon...
I respect CR a great deal.
He seemed to have difficulty grasping the enormity of the credit aspect.
Not that I didn't
Mason and Rosner convinced me.
picosec wrote:
It's all baked in the cake, best people can do is vote the fanatics out (I mean that for both sides) and hope to return sanity to the system. But the Congress is a reflection of the American people, sharply divided about what to do about things and inflexible about anything outside their narrow beliefs.
No, I just don't get it: 30 year amortization 934/360=2,594; five percent interest 934@.05/12=3,891; property tax 1,200
7,686 monthly nut before any other costs. Garbage, water, business tax, insurance (not sure whether they'll have to carry two policies)
Wish I had something to sell them.
""We’re banking on real estate,” said Mr. Kurland, 24. “Everyone expects prices to keep going up.”
That will be a hilarious joke in that particular tent city in which you will be "relocated". You can also start calling your wife ex-wife already. The sooner you start practicing, the less the pain will be...and maybe even start seeing your kids every other weekend too.
What is it that you don't "get?"
With all due respect, we're busy blowing another bubble here.
The deterioration of CRE debt is breathtaking in both speed and severity. That's why banks aren't lending. But the Treasury has their backs. The trouble will manifest in municipal failures for which there isn't enough money to paper over.
By municipal, I assume you mean both state and local?
mp wrote:
Fine. And Conjure predicted a bond meltdown.
CR 1 Conjure 0
Rob Dawg - The trouble will manifest in municipal failures.
I think the failures are already here and have been for years, just the impacts have not materialized yet, or at least been admitted to.
The biggest thing I look at is lending to small biz, and overall credit for those who need it to produce something, and that I believe is still lower than the GD.
I just have a hard time feeling good about the short term future of 10 years plus.
Just checked the public records, either their loan is in a different name or LLC or it hasn't recorded yet
Rob Dawg wrote:
I wonder what Robyn is thinking now? (A couple years ago we were visited by a muni-bond investor by the screen name Robyn from S.Carolina (?) who thought we were being hysterical.)
Conjure is not God. CR is not God.
Lest you forget, Conjure also called "Recession Q1-'08" here in August '07 and was the first to do so.
Conjure called the end of the bull market in equities on November 22, 2007.
On September 18, 2008, Conjure was warning the entire system was within hours of meltdown.
Conjure predicted the failure of Bear Stearns, even though it wasn't legally obligated to support Everquest.
Conjure predicted the Blackstone IPO would be "dead on arrival."
Conjure and I called the end of the recession here In May and were met with derision.
Shall I continue?
Kauia K
back in late 85 I went out with Don henly's former girl... Swedish, didn't think I had a shot
until her best friend told me she had some sort of crush on me... sadly, it was for a few
since she was moving to VA, should have followed her... don't know about his other girls
but what I've see he's got great taste... knew this one doctor that was really good friends with
the other guy in the Eagles, turns outs he's the biggest soft touch in the world and gives and gives
until he's broke, in fact a tour they went on in late 80s was that he really needed money...
sorry for the name drop but boy that girl was a Trinity moment
mp - that's a rather selective list.
Conjure also had lotsa prediction failures.
You like to post the successes, what about the other half of the story?
edit: It's misleading to cherry-pick successes, whether it's Conjure or Cramer or Goldman Sachs or anyone.
mp wrote:
And agency and special districts.
Are you keeping score?
How much entertainment do you want for free?
mp wrote:
That's just silly. Posters on this board (and other boards) call for recessions all the time.
Duke - sorry for the name drop but boy that girl was a Trinity moment.
I on the other hand can only dream.
mp wrote
obviously you are, and reminding us of (half) of it
Effective Demand wrote:
I am less concerned with regard to the fanatics as they then to flame/cancel each other, out. Of greater concern to me, is the legacy corporatist in the Senate and Administration who have yet to become sensitive to the populist mood.
prediction's are like...
Everyone has one and they are usually full of ....
Most here have supporting data and a good story behind them.
The ones that don't get ignored, the ones that do provide a good debate forum that I enjoy reading. If I can skim through the fluff.
squidward wrote:
I wouldn't bet against CR, and I wouldn't bet against Conjure. Conflating either of them with random posters makes me think that perhaps you're just trying to needle mp.
Edit: And when they disagree, that's a learning moment for everyone. Everyone.
Well said, KK.
Blackhalo wrote:
The UCLA riots this afternoon were foretaste. The UC REgents were perplexed why a money issue became a flashpoint.
UCLA riots - Did not even hear of that, all work then all play stuff.
Hopefully no one was hurt and more hopefully people may realize bubble after bubble is not a good thing.
this is OT but I was looking for more Squid Attacks and of course I thought of 20,000 leagues under the sea... a classic!
notice in the official trailer the scroll they use... when Lucas did this in Star Wars people went agog YouTube - "20.000 Leagues Under the Sea" (1954) Trailer
Have a good night, morning, evening all.
Customs finds surprising cargo in Chinese shipment -- latimes.com
That's pretty sophisticated, but perhaps not enough..
Still, things are starting to simmer...
Cops in riot gear keep an eye on protesters at UCLA
| 89.3 KPCC
Rob Dawg wrote:
You're pretty funny sometimes, Dawg.
Fund management: Payback time | The Economist
Brazil, South Korea, Taiwan, Indonesia, and now Russia
ghostfaceinvestah wrote:
Maybe it's an ARM again?
Maybe they did a "special, limited-time only" deal at 1.1% like back in 2006.
Buttonwood: Something's gotta give | The Economist
albrt wrote:
I'm catching up this morning but I had to say: This made me laugh, albrt. omg...too funny.
OK? This just made me look like this:
Is this even LEGAL?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091120/
Still, things are starting to simmer
They're only protesting because they are afraid of losing their "entitlement" to low-cost college education.
Wake me up when folks start protesting to save the country, not just to grab theirs.
On the brighter side of things, Ron Paul's audit the fed amendment to the financial reform bill made it out of committee. Yay!
"Tax the windfall banking bonuses", Martin wolf says:
FT.com / Columnists / Martin Wolf - Tax the windfall banking bonuses
CR goes mainstream:
full article here: http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-Economy/idUSTRE5AI56420091119
Nanoo-Nanoo wrote:
Ramming speed
YouTube - Ramming Speed!
....I would hate to be one of those people who have big balances on credit cards set for rate increases. That would ruin a person's day.
tg: CLASSIC!! and apropos. I didn't copy/paste the entire article but it gets even worse as one reads down. This is financial rape.
I may need to make good on my threat to go all cash, I've lived that way before in the dark ages. I'll do a boatload of buying on the internet before I do because I LOATHE paypal. (sorry CR) I live in the boonies so I don't have access to stores with everything on the planet in them plus I have some arcane interests which are only supplied through internet vendors (astronomy and stuff like that).
BSR: But there is no inflation, remember?
Nanoo-Nanoo wrote:
Government statisticians always are in a tug-of-war between trying to provide economic data suited enough to be useful for policy makers -- and investment banks -- and ensuring its belivabilty.
There, fixed it for them
I don't have any debt thankfully, zero, zip and nada. I'm not bragging, it was by sheer luck we were able to meet that goal, timing as they say is everything. However, for those huge numbers of unemployed, jacking up interest rate payments on CCs and then saying the only way to mitigate that is to spend more is lunacy and usury. There are laws against usury but that hasn't been enforced...their are also laws, national and international, against slavery, peonage and other forms of economic and physical acts against humanity.
So the large issuers of CCs get to borrow themselves at zero interest, then hoard it at the federal reserve and get paid interest on the cash loaned, this while double digit increases are levied elsewhere to their holders. sweet.
This is akin to kicking a little old lady after she falls down and then robbing her in addition. I hope these bullies have a date Karma soon.
Nanoo-Nanoo wrote:
.....one of the CC providers we had a card with back in the late 80s tried this on us and lots of others - I can't remember which one, but was my first lesson of "bankers' sympathies".
Nanoo-Nanoo wrote:
Technically it's not usury.
They collect a percentage fee for each transaction.
Enough transactions == income to pay for "cost of operation".
It's a surprising development.
The U.S. is pretty clearly a fascist country now, on a par with post-Crash Germany.
Most Americans don't want to see it, though, and so they won't.
anyone know what made the European stock market take a nose dive?
broward wrote:
Who do you see as the power brokers in this fascist state?
Thank you BSR, multi-tasking means I don't do anything well.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_EZMGVwURo3M/SwYjmeFBnjI/AAAAAAAACAc/I9LILvEEnFk/s1600/Fed
They are not monetizing....ok , sure.
Nanoo-Nanoo wrote:
By definition, it's corporations.
As late as June of this year, Steve Ballmer was complaining about he needs H1B visas, even as I and my brother possessing a total of 45 years of IT experience sit watching television. This is all about fanatical greed and sociopathic need for power. Pure sickness.
Careers - H-1B, Foreign Workers - Microsoft's Ballmer on H1-B Visas, Immigration
Wow almost a 1% nose dive in the futures.....interesting. Will be interesting also in the Metals camp come Monday a hell of a lot of calls being made on that day in Gold and Silver.
9,187 call options at $1,300... 12,319 at $1,400 and a huge 15,658 at $1,500... plus 2,892 at $1,700... 9,696 at $2,000... and 5,189 gold call options at $2,500. These are big numbers! Either somebody knows something... or there are a lot of traders out there that want to throw their money away, regardless of the price of the option when they bought it.
broward, we see eye to eye then. I'm so sorry about the ability to work. We sweated keeping the job (husband R&D mechanical engineer) every year for well over 2 decades in academia. It sucks and it isn't fair by any stretch of the imagination. Now I'm sweating again as I see the pension fund implosion coming for state run pension plans. I'm trying to protect him in that he deserves a little no sweat time; but I think the time is quickly approaching now. We'll get told to eat cake.
Who knew "Idiocracy" was a documentary?
.....sounds to me, broward, as if our FedGov has a difficult time making the tough decisions it must regarding H-1B worker in the American workplace. An employer of close to 100K worldwide is held at fault for a country's emmigration problems?
Nanoo - any of the "cash-back" or rebate programs for cards (Discover for one), essentially do the same thing, but this cash back program requires a minimum monthly use and on time payments. Right now, nothing is worse for a bank than an unused line of credit. It makes them no money and ties up capital.
Happy BFF - wonder what Sheila's battle plan is tonight?
good morning
fdic got little bit of competition,you could say
Were area bank heists pulled by same lunchtime bandit? | ajc.com
Nanoo-Nanoo wrote:
I knew it was coming many years ago. When I taught at ITT in 1997, I told my students then that we were in an IT bubble which would eventually pop. In previous booms, the disruptive technology of the day had permanent layoffs in the 25% range. That's why I sold my house in 2004. It was clear that the "recovery" was false, based on the RE bubble.
Yes, a pension fund implosion was always in the cards.
Most people will have severe losses beyond what they've seen so far.
Black Star Ranch wrote:
That's why I said we're in a fascist country.
If Congress continues on this current path of madness, it can only end in violence.
We can not give away all jobs in the U.S. to 2 billion Indians and Chinese working for 50 cents / hour.
Just Ross Perot predicted, the tax base is being gutted even as outlays are skyrocketing.
broward wrote:
Ground zero may be California, starting with the students. They have one hell of a problem out there
32% Inflation in UCLA Tuition Causes Near Riots (14 Arrested, 1 Tasered)
YouTube -
Terry, I use a rebate card (not Discover). The credit cards that were idle were already hacked away. I know this as we had several 'reserve' cards that got canceled abruptly that we never used in early '08. What bothers me is with already high interest rates on balances, the threat is if you don't spend more we will increase the interest on that balance by double digits. So that isn't really the same as what you are talking about.
"Ground zero may be California, starting with the students. They have one hell of a problem out there "
Come on, they just secede (in the northern part) and establish The Great Republic of Marihuania
And the southern part establish something in Spanish 
Good Morning, doomers!
BFF is here.
Who are the power brokers in this fascist state?
I recollect that there was an interview on Charlie Rose - person unknown - who referred to our nation as a "corporate republic".
Saw the article about Citi and requiring certain spending minimums to get the lower rates. This is one particular reason that I'm starting to appreciate Sotomaier (sp?) on the Court due to her questions/comments re fictitious legal entities. These organizations exist to profit themselves and their senior executives at the expense of all.
Honestly, I'll take penury if necessary to see that such entities are destroyed.
Nationalize the bastards before it's over.
I've noted how frenetic the job market is now. Even those in relatively secure jobs change careers. Some years ago, I saw statistics about how often people change jobs and careers, it was stunning. Professionals, including doctors and nurses are increasingly leaving their professions for 'other work'.
The '91 recession was the shot across the bow as I have said before, that the economic paradigm wasn't sustainable. We've had bubble/burst/bubble/burst and each cycle becomes more severe, each cycle shorter in busts. Finally, after raping entire market sectors it turned to a core which was real estate. It was the very last secure, slow and unsexy way for average people to build wealth. Instead of a home being home, it became an investment to be used as such. Each bust produced countless people whose lives were forever changed, wealth concentrated to the top 5%.
We're all living in serfdom now as govt was bought and paid for, this is why we can't elect officials and change the status quo. Without huge war chests filled with money from special interests, you can't conduct a campaign. Its sick, you're right.
Shill:
Quick question on the gold call options. Does that mean that they expect to be able to sell at those figures down the road? Or buy with the assumption that whatever dollar amount will be a bargain?
Thanks.
D'oh! This mess started in RRE, it will be exacerbated with CRE and it will end on LIVING WAGE JOBS. I don't see that end as mfg represents only 10% of the gdp. Those 'shovel ready' projects have a short shelf-life. What do people do that don't have a skill and whose hands have never picked up a shovel?
Nov. 20 (Bloomberg) -- A recovery in U.S. housing will have to wait at least until next year.
The outlook for the home market dimmed this week as residential construction and mortgage applications fell and loan delinquencies reached a record.
“I don’t think the housing crisis is over,” Mark Zandi, chief economist with Moody’s Economy.com, said in a telephone interview. “I think we’re going to see another leg down.”
New home sales may begin to pick up by the start of the so-called spring selling season, said Toll Brothers Inc., the largest U.S. luxury homebuilder. Existing house sales may take longer. Residential construction and property sales led the way out of the previous seven recessions going back to 1960, said David Berson, chief economist of PMI Group, the mortgage insurer in Walnut Creek, California.
full article here: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=akUXumKHhBNw&pos=3
Georgia Suspects
i didnt know this existed,off topic maybe
.
Isn't that CR's mantra as well? CR has been cautious in his projections - Zandi hasn't. - like many others he suffers from "Boy Who Cried Wolf" Disease.
Scott Rothstein a Republican fund raiser who contributed to Florida governor's(Republican Charlie Crist's) campaign, has been suspected but not yet accused of running a billion dollar ponzi scheme. The Miami Herald calls him a "major fundraiser" for Crist. (He also gave some money to Democrats)
Feds probe prominent Broward attorney Scott Rothstein - Florida - MiamiHerald.com
Nanoo-Nanoo wrote:
Not defending C's rate increases - the banks I worked with went with 3-5% increases, not 15+%, but I was just addressing the "legality" question you raised - the rate increases happened, but C will rebate part of the finance charges if you hit the minimum spending level per month - that was my comparison with the rebate cards. Other banks are doing a similar thing, but waiving annual fees if you spent a certain amount. - on lines of credit, the mantra at the banks is use it or lose it - they want to earn something on the capital they have tied up in CC lines of credit.
My recommendation: get a credit card from an international bank from outside the United States. I have one: no fees, no interest so long as I pay the balance off. The catch: bank balance is high enough for them to provide that incentive.
Which is worse - bankers or terrorists wrote:
You don't have to go offshore for that - I have a Chase card, which I use for business travel - several thousand dollars a month, paid off every month - they earn enough on the interchange that I have had NO change in terms, other than the ones mandated by the already effective parts of the CARD Act.
For a good
read David Brooks this morning:
OP-ED COLUMNIST; What Geithner Got Right - NY Times
I had no idea Timmay was so right!
.....I have a tough time with banks changing the rules AFTER charges are run up. That to me is BS. They can change rates and charges for all NEW balances, but things shouldn't change mid-game. Even our FedGov keeps things consistent, constant, and ..........wait.........nevermind........
Black Star Ranch wrote:
Agreed and the CARD Act changed that - rates can only go up after a default, and have to go back down within 6 months if the default is corrected.
EDIT: and you can refuse a change in terms and pay off the old balance under the old terms (but the bank can cancel the card)
Nanoo-Nanoo wrote:
fear that negative t-bills indicate a second wave of credit crisis is emerging?
/sorry CR
David Brooks is both an ass and an idiot.
Edit: IMHO, of course.
The MBA National Delinquency Survey showed 15.04% of FHA insured loans were delinquent as of the end of Q3, and another 3.32% were in the foreclosure process.
---I'm betting this trio of financial wizards will be added to these stats soon!
On Topic, This is just another example of recycling foreclosures at public expense to slow the free fall. The debt for this will be crushing.
This could get interesting
Audit The Fed Effort Wins Support From An Unusual Coalition
Black Star Ranch wrote:
I expected better of him. It's definitely an interesting counterpart to Krugman's column today, which I felt was much more reality-based.
OP-ED COLUMNIST; The Big Squander - NY Times
Nanoo,
Unless I've missed something, European markets have been moving pretty much in lock step with US markets(Dow and S&P).
.....btw, so I can get this off my desktop..........
.
.
When are they going to acknowledge the 824K more unemployed? Needs to be by March, correct?
Wonder how long it will be before we have a C4N program - cash for newspapers:
"Newspapers' ad revenue totaled $6.4 billion in the third quarter, a 28 percent drop from the same time last year, according to figures released Thursday by the Newspaper Association of America."
CC companies hate us, we're 'deadbeats' as thus far, we don't carry any revolving credit. CCs are only a convenience item, if that changes materially, then forget it. I've lived without them before and I will again that is if we don't have unseen inflation that goes into the TRIPLE digits rather than the double digits that currently exist in those necessary items like food, health care, insurance premiums of all ilks, energy, etc. Then like these other poor schmucks trying to live an ordinary life, we'll have no choice and I think that maybe what is banked on.
Interesting site about the bank robbery suspects.
When are they going to start putting white collar execs in there?
hello Kristina. It will die an unremarkable death in the Senate with little fanfare. I'd be willing to bet the house on it.
(AP) Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, who many Republicans have been pushing to run for governor in 2010, is instead leaning more toward a run for U.S. Senate, according to two party advisers.
"From staff, we have been hearing that he has been indicating quietly and privately recently that governor might not be the best fit for him now," one adviser said Thursday. "But the U.S. Senate could be a perfect fit for him."
Source: Giuliani Leaning Toward Senate Run - CBS News
---I agree.
Congress needs another corrupt, lying bastard!
Nanoo - that is why many consumers are moving to debit or prepaid cards. They have the safety of not carrying cash. They avoid bank credit fees. They have the protection of the card brand zero liability policies. You can still shop on-line. Credit card usage is turning strongly negative, while debit and prepaid are incresing dramatically.
Grayson doesn't strike me as the type that will go away quietly. I spoke with him briefly about some other things that nobody has been able to answer for me on the Fed and M2. He is not going away on this issue.
Hey Terry, what if you have a balance of 5K, are trying to pay it off but the rates get jacked up because you aren't spending enough and adding to your debt while your job hours got cut down by 8hrs a week? This is just as an example for debate purposes.
Think that Giuliani is more concerned about being a governor of a state on the same flight path as California, albeit some ways behind. And being Senator gets him that pension.
What's that? Oh yeah, what most of us don't have...
This is why I am long Gold and Silver, very manipulated indeed. But that too is coming un-glued. I laugh when I read people think Gold and Silver is in a Bubble, if it's such a bubble why the hell does JPM hold some 12,000 plus short contracts (60 million ounces)?
Long Metals, as they will not be able to deliver.
And Monday is option expiry.
BSR,
Same reason they recalculated the levels of CPI in the Clinton years to short paying SS and Medicare.
Shill:
Quick question. Does the call option mean that the option holder has the right to purchase the gold for that amount or sell it?
,rads y apparatchicas,
When Big Gov starts giving financially snot-nosed adult-children 800 1 ounce gold eagle coins, in receipt of their $33k down-payment, you'll know that the gold bubble is raging.
homedad43
dont know when they will be putting white collar execs,but isnt it interesting the latest guy(s) robbed 7 banks in atlanta area, not as many as fdic shut down but hes getting there.of course this could just seasonal,
Nanoo-Nanoo wrote:
As I mentioend to BSR above - I agree with that change in the law. As long as you are paying off the old debt according to terms, they should not be able to jack up your rates, but at the same time, given the change in income, they bank should be able to reprice or deny NEW credit.
In my neck of the woods Terry, a whole bunch of people using debit cards at a large grocery store chain got their info stolen and charges emptied their checking accounts. Debit cards don't carry the same 'protection' as credit cards in mitigating losses or in challenging a charge from a merchant which is erroneous or in error. I'll never use one, ever, for these reasons.
A slight resemblance to some of us here?:
RNS Feature: "Tumultuous times fuel end-times preparations"
Per Ed Steers gold and Silver report.....grab this report HD, Ed is always spot on ( no punt intended.)
Crist almighty... Houston, we have a problem.
Nanoo-Nanoo wrote:
I never use a PIN at the point of sale for that very reason (I run the transaction as a "credit" transaction so I get the zero liability protection). I also never use a debit card for online purchases based on similar concerns. I only use bank ATMs not the ones in the C stores - the answer is a prepaid card - not tied to your bank account. and you never have more than the balance on the card at risk.
homedad,
If you exercise a call option on a futures contract, you buy the futures contract at the strike price.
If you exercise a call option on a futures contract, you buy the futures contract at the strike price.
Yes thank you trader, sorry I was back an forth with another board, This is why I smell something fishy with this call
**
5,189 gold call options at $2,500.**
Staying vigilant.
Thanks for your reply Terry. I'm too freaking lazy to play those games and paranoid to boot. I've been physically robbed more than once including checks stolen. The only thing that saved my tail then (and I was a poor as a church mouse) is that my signature is very unusual, whoever stole them didn't know me.
You are savvy, all too many are all too trusting and not savvy. This is why its WRONG. Banking should be straight forward an BORING, not a cat and mouse game or maze.
Off to work - back later to see what SheBair did.
BSR -
Ordinarily, I'd consider housing starts to be a leading indicator in the business cycle, or a coincident indicator in a credit cycle. But to carry the 'gauge' analogy a bit farther, there are far too many entities who have sent their man over to alter the calibration of the gauge, and I feel it is no longer an indication of anything whatsoever.
Federal regulators on Thursday directed Flagler Bank of West Palm Beach to address concerns about its financial stability.
In a 17-page written agreement with the bank, the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta ordered Flagler to submit a plan for strengthening the board's oversight of management and operations. It also must show it can maintain sufficient capital and improve liquidity.
In addition, Flagler must retain an independent consultant to review its corporate governance and management structure. The bank may not declare or pay dividends without regulators' permission.
Regulators warn West Palm Beach bank - Breaking News - Business - MiamiHerald.com
---There is still time to cast your vote in the BFF Poll.
Traderwalt:
Thanks.
As to debit cards, my wife got hers jacked last Black Friday. We immediately reported it as gone and with a police report filed, the bank reimbursed us for the amount ($2K+).
Nanoo-Nanoo wrote:
Yep. Glass-Steagall, etc. etc.
later folks.
yup, yelled it for all to many years until I'm blue in the face. Now its too late.
The Sun recently found that the three local governments receiving most of the money sent to the valley to buy, fix and resell foreclosed houses had been able to close deals on only five houses to date even though the program is nearly halfway into its 18-month time frame.
The U.S. Housing and Urban Development Department-funded project is aimed putting brakes on the decline of neighborhoods, and the plan locally had been to buy hundreds of homes.
But officials in Clark County, Las Vegas and North Las Vegas, which have a total of $60.2 million in Neighborhood Stabilization Program dollars, said the biggest obstacles to moving faster have been ongoing changes in rules and, more recently, the volatility of real estate because of investors swooping in. The same issues have occurred nationwide, making the program a good one to learn from.
$60 million to stabilize neighborhoods buys five homes - Friday, Nov. 20, 2009 | 2 a.m. - Las Vegas Sun
lol
EDIT: Glad my Telecasters have maple necks-
.
so many of the typical "indicators" don't add up this go-around - leaves a few of us old boys shaking our heads in disgust.
.....and, ........$179-billion in Treasuries being auctioned next week? The interest alone will end up killing us.
homeGnome
ah our first "address concerns". already voted,but we are getting competition on our bff with all these bank robberies,according to the fbi most bank robberies take place from 9am to 1 pm on fridays. so what about a brf to go along with bff?
That couldn't be because they left when the work dried up? I know that is the case here. There was a mass exodus of illegal workers when the boom went bust in construction. Has little to do with the administration and a whole lot to do with the economy.
New England Patriots [team stats] owner Robert Kraft will get his pedestrian bridge connecting Gillette Stadium with a potential office park site he owns across Route 1 in Foxboro, thanks to $9 million in federal stimulus money approved yesterday by a state panel.
The Metropolitan Planning Organization OK’d the funds on a 13-1 vote.
The lone dissenter said she opposed the spending “on general principle.”
Panel OKs $9M for Gillette footbridge - BostonHerald.com
Terry wrote:
True enough. I'm living outside of the US and just making the point that many banks I deal with overseas don't feel the need to *ssfist their customers. There is a realization that if their customers like a service, they might like more services from that business.
I call that "lemonade stand" common sense. We seem to be losing that in 'merica.
Someone posted a link recently about things being so bad for those folks in the US that the family in Mexico was wiring money to them up here...
Speed wrote:
Don't forget the "sunshine premium." There's no price too high in CA.
SF gets sun, right?
I'll clue you in to the whole bullion-numismatic angle...
Evangelicals have been like sales putty in the hands of boiler-room coin dealers, because anybody with a rigid group-think angle is easy pickings on the phone, as far as separating them from their money.
The angle of the dangle has always been to switch them from low profit bullion, to numismatic coins, instead. The evangs were more susceptible than most, as gold & silver are mentioned in the bible, and hopefully a good many of them bought old collectible coins that will plummet in value along with every other collectible, but a lot of them are sitting on precious metals they bought in the past decade/s and doing better than anybody else in the country financially (aside from assorted Unabankers) right now.
That's the reason the boiler-room coin dealers are on drudge, rush, sean and all the righty-tighty-gawdalmighty news sources, the sales vein was and continues to be quite wide there.
The evangs are the Americans that aspire to be Indian (think Mumbai, not Manhattan) and if the shit hits the fan and the dollar is woefully debauched, much like they did politically in electing King George II to not one, but 2 reigns, they will hold the financial reins, as they are the only cohesive group with real money in our country.
Scary.
JD<
The Chimp was selected the first time around.
Diebold took care of the second.
I plugged it into a mortgage calculator and got something closer to $6200/month. Seriously, aside from the idiot comment that they are counting on prices to go up, and they don't seem to have priced in the potential damage to the California economy yet to come, this doesn't seem like the most horrible transaction I have ever heard of. They are young and I assume they will live in the apartments and have roommates. It may not be the nicest area in SF, but it is central. I have friends living there who pay $1400/month to rent a room in a condo. That was pretty much the going rate a year ago. Prices may not go up again, but I don't think they will ever be reasonable by normal US standards (i.e. oustide of Manhattan and SF proper).
Not as crazy as what I've seen locally in crappy flyoverland Austin, Texas. October sales were up 38% over a year ago (and the prices were up to)because of the stupid tax credit. People are paying $250K for 1950 bungalos that were selling for $80K 10 years ago. But according to the relitters Texas never had a bubble. This after 5 years of denying the bubble and two years of crisis, everyone is ready to party like it's 2004 again. This country is too stupid to handle wealth, and it deserves whatever comes next.
Dead Shtick wrote:
Check out this view of California's potential for a second bubble. Scary!!
California: The Housing Bubble Returns? | Newgeography.com