When taxpayers lose, Hu wins?

Until yesterday I had money in one of the "troubled" banks, Advanta. Turns out it would have failed long ago, but Utah state regulations allowed the bank to get in even deeper trouble. Wonder how many other states have regulations that are inadvertently propping up zombies.

The FDIC is industry funded - not taxpayer. There is a $500B line of credit with the Treasury but if accessed would be repaid over time by the banking industry. TARP is ,of course, taxpayer money but there is the potential for gains to offset some of the losses.

The Fed is also a private bank independent from the government. I think all these institutions get lumped together in the public's mind.

Jim

NC Jim wrote:

The FDIC is industry funded - not taxpayer. There is a $500B line of credit with the Treasury but if accessed would be repaid over time by the banking industry. TARP is ,of course, taxpayer money but there is the potential for gains to offset some of the losses.
The Fed is also a private bank independent from the government.

I missed the snark indicator. Time to say before I react.

BWAHAHHAHAHAHAHA.

/wipes eyes.

Seriously? FDIC only industry funded? C'mon.

C

Government accounting means there are no losses.

Wonder how many other states have regulations that are inadvertently propping up zombies.

while other banks have been negligent, the lax oversight by Utah was actually is feature of the ILC Charter (only available in Utah).

Mock & Rich,
Got pigged but left a link concerning the possibility that the top10% of U.S. wealth holders are disenchanted with the idea of more taxes from increased govt. spending and will take defensive action to protect their wealth. They are facing possibly tougher laws on emigration, more taxation, and eventually capital controls that make it impossible to protect wealth from a massive currency devaluation. (MarketOracle opinion)
Don't Fool Yourself: America Is Now a Communist Nation :: The Market Oracle :: Financial Markets Analysis & Forecasting Free Website

I modestly accept the accolades that are surely going to rain down upon me. Why you ask? For my gutsy call, back when I said the TARP would cost the taxpayers. It was a long and lonely vigil, holding out against the multitudes who believed that the TARP would turn a profit. I may set up shop as an oracle based on this astounding prediction.

"I literally looked at the federal constitution to see if there was a way for states to return to territory status."

At some point all these failures will start to trigger Derivative (insurance) losses. At that point you will start to hear the explosive bolt sound of derivatives blowing up left and right. Maybe the US gov't can backstop the lot, I have a feeling that they can't. Our financial industry has its guns pointed at each other, but that includes pension funds, money market funds. They put off the day when someone draws their weapon and pulls the trigger, but if California pulls the trigger, all bets are off.

Mexican standoff at it's worse.

I agree with that. It simply has gotten much more extreme. The productivity/wage chart says it all:

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/ee947bb285.png

The Treasury is already talking about reverse repos to offload some of its MBS and treasuries.

The squid may yet find a government blood funnel siphoning off its precious fluids...

Trainwreck - you may like this, on derivs and insurance kaboomerie:

FT Alphaville » Blog Archive » Bond insurer death watch, CIFG edition

C

The Treasury is already talking about reverse repos to offload some of its MBS and treasuries.

The squid may yet find a government blood funnel siphoning off its precious fluids...

I doubt it will last. This is just cover until all this pesky Audit the Fed stuff blows over.

well, in the golden years of the pax americana - 1950-1982 - we enjoyed a truly deep and vibrant middle class, with relatively easy access to true social mobility and excellent education.

but there was no way that kind of fragile flower could withstand the combined force of reaganite ideology and the raw stupidity of the baby boomer generation.

merchants of fear wrote:

mostly people get lost in the partisan spins and miss the point that some people are going to want to get out of Dodge to keep their wealth holdings...that are a target for higher taxes and fees...

I don't disagree. But being very familiar with Switzerland and what happened lately, I can promise you that it won't be easy. In fact, evading taxes will become progressively more difficult in the next few years. 911 had a tremendous effect on data interchange and that will never go away again. Golds behavior lately is a perfect indication.

Is there an 'equitable' curve for a nation's wealth. Standard distribution would imply there will be concentrations of wealth, surely some economist has drawn an 'optimal' distribution curve by now, no?

edit: No doubt one showing that wealth rightly should be in the economist's pockets.

Oxtail,
Becoming a citizen elsewhere is a process that takes time and some countries don't need or want more citizens like the U.S. wanted more citizens (and undocumented illegals for cheap labor)...

That would be totally awesome if the people who profited from the nonsense of the last decade decided to "get out of dodge." That way, those of us who didn't can get stuck with all the mess and none of the chattel. Awesome.

El Lurko,
Yeah...where can these people who ponzied or ran an operation or organized scam GO where they CAN"T be extradited?

Depends whether you're buying your way into a country, or buying it...

C

merchant,
Did you really have to run a scam, or a ponzi scheme, to have stuff on your hands from all this? Profit from it, stick around to mop it up. Seems only fair.

Morose? Doubt it. Got ?

Anyhow, developments on the tax haven front, Singapore and Liechtenstein making minor efforts to clean up:

Sulking Singapore Loses Status As Top Tax Haven - Dealbreaker - A Wall Street Tabloid - Business News Headlines and Financial Gossip

As DB says, Delaware is still unrepentent. Sorry, free.

C

I wish DE and SD would take our NYC bankers instead of just our banks.

So how about platinum?

the shame about Delaware is that it's actually more pro-management than it is pro-business...

I have to admit there is one scenario where TARP makes money. If we give the banks money using our left hand, then our right hand can be instantly richer! (Minus a small handling fee , of course.)

TJ,
Did FDR in the GD buy gold from citizens for 60% of what he priced it at for dollars reduced 40% or whatever the "deal' was??

When CA's budget director quits and says the state is bankrupt, that ought to warrant more of a response from the administration.

TJ-

Is there enough gold in the US to be worth seizing? My WAG is that all the physical gold barely amounts to what we blow in a week.

It's time to bring home US forces from Iraq and Afghanistan ASAP. When California is on the verge of default, wasting money in strategically insignificant countries is inexcusable.

"New Yorker article lazily. . . "

New York magazine is not The New Yorker.

rosethorn wrote:

It's time to bring home US forces from Iraq and Afghanistan ASAP. When California is on the verge of default, wasting money in strategically insignificant countries is inexcusable.

California can't be intimidated by your threats. The troops won't do any more good here than over there. We have our own version of chaos. Of course you can take control of Disneyland and Knott's Berry Farm, but the troops will succumb to our porn industry and medical marijuana.

To clarify, I wasn't advocating martial law in CA. I was just saying the money saved will be needed to bail out California.

Trainwreck - you may like this, on derivs and insurance kaboomerie:

FT Alphaville » Blog Archive » Bond insurer death watch, CIFG edition

Counterpointer wrote:

Yeah I hate to admit, but this was commonplace: Goldman Gives Preferential Treatment to Junior CDO Holders Over Senior « naked capitalism

Funny how Warren Buffett poo pooed derivatives, but he was heavily invested in derivatives.

rosethorn wrote:

To clarify, I wasn't advocating martial law in CA. I was just saying the money saved will be needed to bail out California.

There isn't enough money anywhere on the revenue side to "fix" Dawgifornia. That's why it will take some form of takeover and mandated fiscal reforms. Calling it martial law isn't that far from the truth because so far none of the democratic processes have been able to effect necessary change.

Is there enough gold in the US to be worth seizing? My WAG is that all the physical gold barely amounts to what we blow in a week.

You seem to be missing the point. The U.S. wants us to use Fed Reserve notes as money. They don't care if we own gold. They care if we use it as an alternative currency. Physical gold transactions are hard to tax.

Confiscation only served a purpose as long as we were on the gold standard.

What would be the purpose of seizing gold now? If they're going to make a grab for things, they'll set their sights higher.

So much commentariat
so little knowledge of history
I like you, Dawg
but I'd like you better if you were a tad less brittle

I am literally surrounded by hot alt women
I am may not escape un scathed...
Thank god

Could our own government seize control of your retirement accounts? | Kevin Colby: News and Political blog

Um, fuck the Wall Street Journal.

Useless drivel.

Not many people get to see God, Rob.

I am damn lucky in some ways.

broward wrote:

Not many people get to see God, Rob.
I am damn lucky in some ways.

The best moments are the moments along the way, those times when you suspect the view was just God pleasing himself and suspecting that you are being allowed to share.

Not many people get to see God

Told you he was going to end up a prophet.

Interesting day at the commentariat cul de sac. A little partisan sniping. Verifiable doomers giving props to the white house on the hill and some golden shots across the bow. Loved the Marxist regime comment. Hi-larious.

Change is happening as usual. Watched the Prez's speech in Japan. That man is looking plain tuckered out. Salute to his masochistic side to take a role that has a exponentially reduced ROI. Maybe he really is a white hat...but I never really believed in the big man of history theory. Like most of us if you are in a leadership role you just point your skis downhill and hope for the best.

C-missing your contributions during my daylight hours but good to see you in the UTC-7 latenight. Hope all is well in your time zone.

RD- Props to you for your intellect and loss of partisan perspective. Two and half years of reading CR and you might be receiving the award for most adjusted view of causality. I mean that in a good way.

Still holding onto my view that all will turn out ok for us Americans. Just the fact we have the internet and freedom of speech bodes well for our future. People who do wrong are ultimately self destructive to the point they promote their own ending. The oligarchs do not have total control and are very afraid when they are alone or surrounded by sycophants. We all can sense it and despise them for it. Their undoing is in their own making. Hard times but a light of freedom will be seen in the distance. Guiding us home.

g'night. As always I enjoy the interlude.

Externalized Costs wrote:

RD- Props to you for your intellect and loss of partisan perspective. Two and half years of reading CR and you might be receiving the award for most adjusted view of causality. I mean that in a good way.

Interesting take. I haven't lost my partisanship, it just looks more reasonable in light of what's transpired. I also don't think I've changed so much as the world has changed so I don't stick out as much. The tinfoil conspiracies of 2005 are the policies of 2009. It was real hard in 2006 to get people to listen that a multiyear deep recession was inevitable. Now it is difficult to get people to listen to warnings of the great bond illiquidity that's coming or the municipal solvency crisis of 2010. We had a very mild taste last year when the Federal special master started on the CA prison health care reform process spending whatever he liked and sending the bill to the State. Judges raising property taxes to recapitalize CatSTRS and CalPERS won't survive contact with reality either.

good morning all
now im going to read the thread.

broward (homepage, profile) wrote on Sat, 11/14/2009 - 4:26 am

Not many people get to see God, Rob.
I am damn lucky in some ways.

Lots of people have seen god, just like lots of people have spent an evening in a sling.

Lucky? Possible. Special? No.

I see that Rob Dawg's logins account for a full 30% of the current users. Probably asleep head down on his desk in the nerve center of the Dawgiedome, surrounded by blinking screens.

That Rouses Point plant changed hands faster than I could keep up. So, here's my morning anecdote:

PLATTSBURGH, N.Y. --
The State's Labor Commissioner is concerned about the impending closure of pfizer in Northern New York.

Commissioner Patricia Smith said the move will leave no less than three hundred and perhaps as many as six hundred people jobless.

For each job lost, Smith said another one or two could go in a trickle down effect, things like retailers and service providers who have to downsize due to a decline in business.

"We're determined to get the laid off employees absolutely every resource they are entitled to," said Patricia Smith.

The North Country Chamber of Commerce and the labor department describe their response strategies at this point as fluid.

The Labor department will visit the Rouses Point plant next week with its rapid response plan to help workers make the transition to the next phase of their careers.

http://www.wptz.com/money/21609996/detail.html

gabyjan: What are you paying for gasoline? Up here, its $2.80/gal. I suspect yours is lower. I feel sorry for families too but it also extends to how far food stamps go for them as milk is an eligible item. I don't know how that works but I suspect it means their subsidy doesn't go as far as intended.

You sound like a friend of mine up here who is also feeding feral cats. Up here, we have 6 months of winter, like you have 6 months of summer. I don't know how cats and other critters make it because we can go sub-zero and stay there even during the day during deep winter months.

I feed wild critters but only during deep winter and the harshest of conditions. Where I live we do have bears so I can't feed the birds until winter is in full swing or risk attracting the bear to hang out on the property. We also have a ton of deer but I don't feed them. Fortunately, there is enough forage here for the wild critters to survive the winters (the ones that overwinter here).

Edit: To keep the OT stuff in one post. Our humane society is overflowing. I live very, very rural so cats aren't a problem but in the valley (more developed and warmer) it is. This year my x-mas money is going to the humane society for food for the abandoned pets and also to the food bank here, perhaps some toys for tots stuff too. I feel so badly for young families, having been on the edge myself in my youth, I know how stressful it is and I didn't have a child to provide for.

did we stop the thread? i hope not.

Morning all. We have a huge feral cat problem down here in Florida. I have six strays that live in my house and I try to donate what little I can to the Humane Society here. They are full and have taken to actually giving animals away rather than charging the standard 50 bucks or so to adopt. It is sad...

I spent the night curled up with two of my fur babies, not a great alternative to the hubby the only one available. Hubby made it to St. Louis last night in good time and safely...Did I mention I hate hate hate sleeping alone?

In other news that has me FUMING...A neurosurgeon here was busted with two kilos of cocaine a few months ago. Six people were arrested in the sting. Sentences ranged from life in prison, 30 years, 14 years, and fifty six months. All the others in the sting were Mexican and nobodies. Who do you think got 56 months? Our "justice" system is nothing if not a complete fucking sham...

Last week the TARP lost $298.7 when San Francisco-based United Commercial Bank (UCBH Holdings) failed.

That should qualify as CBFOTY! (cheapest bank failure of the year)

....and for the FDIC to close only three banks yesterday, someone is not doing their job. I would imagine the bad PR with "where went the TARP money" is exacerbated when one of the "giftees" goes belly up.......costing US in two ways....TARP and DIF.

Yup, a big stinking pile on our doorsteps. Without repealing the idiot Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act and the the f*ing CFMA us peasants can expect that every last wooden nickel will be confiscated one way or another. Internationally the G-20 are a bunch of quivering jello brains; restoring Glass-Steagall and closing unregulated exchanges, abandon Basal II- go back and try again. Its the only way, its obvious but their noses are too buried in self-interest.

U.K. Mortgage Lenders: Don't Treat Us like "Drug Dealers"

".......us peasants can expect that every last wooden nickel will be confiscated one way or another."

.....well, you hope that you can position yourself in such a way as to "reduce the theft" by other means. Who would ever engage in a "crooked" poker game even if it's the last one in town?

Byzantine_Ruins wrote:

You have become much less of a doctrinaire Republican idiot. Deny it all you want.

Ahhhh. There's the misunderstanding. I'm not in anyway a Republican. I'm a Conservative in the way trust busting, national park forming TR was a conservative. Any conservative aspects in the current (I won't call it modern) Republican Party are either negotiable bargaining positions or accidental policies that will be corrected in the next purge.