Hey this is becoming a real sport, pre-game show and everything!

There are already plenty of color commentators around here. Now all we need are cheerleaders.

Wow - we both had the same thought!

Hmmm .... ground beef, onion and jalapeno, or sausage onion and pepper? Gotta put my order in early today. Might be a big line.

Already got the beer lined up : Spaten Munich Optimator. If I have one for each BF, I'll be face down in my za.

LaJolla?

FDIC employees will be drawing straws for that takedown.

Crumbled bacon, jalapeno, pineapple, and red pepper. Really like that combination.

I still can't get over the cage dancers at the new Cowboys stadium...Here look at the cage dancers, and by the way we are family friendly...that one gets a chuckle out of my wife.

Vonbek777 wrote:

pre-game show and everything

HA!!! Too funny. (Where are the macho bear commercials).

black dog wrote:

LaJolla?
FDIC employees will be drawing straws for that takedown.

If the choices are LaJolla or closing the Washita State Bank in Burns Flat, OK (another PCA from last month), I wonder which one the closing agents would choose.

Here's a nice Kelo link. So pathetic and so not surprising.

Pfizer, Kelo and the eminent domain ghost town

Newbie 101 wrote:

The Kelo decision hurt me.

What do you mean? Is Kelo a person?

I did. Thanks.

Mebbe CR can re-run one of the threads on through the weekend for a replay.

I hate to see a ballplayer get injured, but I'd love to see a bone sticking out of a bank's leg.

"What a terrible thing to see, let's view it again."

Oops. Here's the link.

Is Kelo a person?

And all this time I thought it was simply 2.2 lbs

There's a better article on Pfizer and Kelo in today's NY Times.

Pfizer to Leave City That Won Land-Use Suit - NY Times

Here's an important sentence:

"Pfizer spent $294 million on a 750,000-square-foot complex that opened in 2001."

That's 750,000 square feet that now will be useless, that nobody will want and eventually will be torn down.

Such a big, wealthy country. So much waste.

Ah, the joys of crony capitalism.

Pfizer...

...and notice that their property taxes would be reduced by 80% for 10 years, starting in 2001.

SNAFU (profile) wrote on Fri, 11/13/2009 - 2:04 pm

Got the following from TBP ref. Nat Gas:

What are the pros and cons of using NG? Is it just cost of implementation? I like the 'less polluting than coal' for power generation possibilities. Comments please!

*From the desk of T. Boone Pickens

Army.

We reached our goal of 120 bi-partisan cosponsors of the NAT GAS Act (H.R. 1835) way before 11/20.

Our efforts are having an impact!

You know the numbers on natural gas: 2,000 trillion cubic feet of reserves in the continental United States; more than 100 years worth -- enough to fuel our heavy truck fleet, provide electrical power to our homes and businesses, plenty for cooking and heating, and more than enough remaining for other crucial uses like fertilizer and chemical production.

Congressmen Dan Boren (D-OK), John Sullivan (R-OK), and John Larson (D-CT) have shown true leadership in helping their colleagues to see how important passing the NAT GAS Act is to America's energy future.

We are keeping the pressure on, and we've got our eye on the goal: Get this bill passed in the House and the Senate, signed into law by President Obama, and begin reducing our dependence on foreign oil.

If you haven't already, click here to email your Member of Congress today and ask them to cosponsor this important legislation.

Let's keep this momentum going.

Boone

*

And NOT makes the perfect cast in the LiberalLunkers 2009 Fishermen's Classic....
Seems he's using live bait.

NOTaREALmerican wrote:

Seems to me there should be NO corporate taxes of any kind.

Ok, but on the flip-side, companies should be responsible for site-cleanup, environmental damage and held to account on these matters, with first priority in bankruptcy being to fix any damage.

Look at the mess that the car companies have left behind. Oh, and what a freakin' surprise, all the polluted land is attached to bad GM, and bad Chrysler...

Uncle Ar wrote:

that may work if the companies that sell crap here actually make it here.....

But, just tax the recipients of the dividends, as income. Some person eventually has to be getting the loot from someplace. Tax them. Who cares what the company does or were it sells. Just tax the people for their income.

That's very kind of you, but I wasn't affected personally. It was the principle, suddenly becoming clear, that hurt.

NaR, we all know capital gains aren't income, who are you trying to fool here?

Back temporarily on topic.

I've got the FDIC Failed Bank web-site on one of my tabs. Bet I'm not alone.

NOTaREALmerican wrote:

Isn't this just another example of how taxing companies eventually leads to unexpected consiquences.

Some might argue that many of the consequences are expected or at least known, that companies often have an information advantage in this regard, and that many of the unexpected consequences can be classified as negative externalities and as such are paid for by those who do not benefit from the company profits.

Rob Dawg wrote:

When will the two parties in power and in decay admit that Kelo v New London was their Dred v. Scott? Their battle win lost the war.

My, you are optimistic today. I don't think they will ever give up. The motivation to use the power of government to favor one's friends and enrich oneself is too powerful. Government is a an Octopus to complement Goldman's Squid, but with a bigger beak.

Uncle Ar wrote:

who are you trying to fool here

Ok. But still, the current bizarre tax system isn't resulting in "payments" either (if you believe all the liberal sites showing the corporations don't pay any taxes). All the current system does is encourage lying and lawyers.

sm_landlord wrote:

The motivation to use the power of government to favor one's friends and enrich oneself is too powerful.

Too powerful. Isn't THAT a bit mild. It's human nature to aid your buds. Why wouldn't people in government aid their buds?

Thanks EHP, that was rattling around my skull...something didn't sound right.

I'm not, but then again my family a few generations back were half breed sharecroppers, what do I know.

Duke,
You mentioned my 'homeroom'...why use garbage or internet junk as sources or references (or no sources to make an argument) when there's plenty of published research in the 'higher learning' disciplines that's relevant...might be kinda stuffy I know bit it is informative...

EHP,
So I take it you may believe this 'swine flu' came from unsanitary hog farms (from seeing a few of your posts on this topic) and not from a chemisty, pharma, or bio-research lab...where research is done and vaccines are created from live viruses, using some samples possibly taken from earlier flu pandemics...

Rob Dawg wrote:

When will the two parties in power and in decay admit that Kelo v New London was their Dred v. Scott? Their battle win lost the war.

Why don't you make reversing that a plank on your Yeller Dawg party platform?

She said busy day with foreclosures and I think she said evictions, poor Liz. I wouldn't want to be in her shoes for anything.

Cinco-X wrote:

Why don't you make reversing that a plank on your Yeller Dawg party platform?

Ok. got it. The constitution as a religion gambit.

Well, still, regardless of whether emanate domain is constitutional or not, it still appears that taxing corporations leads to abuses by the VERY smart lawyers of the corporations, that get to play the cities off each other.

Vonbek777,
Here's one to smoke a cigar over...OT but is Shiekh Mohammed guilty as charged of 'masterminding and carrying out 911'?
EHP & Duke...what do you think?

merchants of fear
yup. it is the simplest explanation, and the significant mutation that led to swine flu was at the August 1998 North Carolina outbreak at Hog Slat Inc (edit: not Smithfield Foods, they come up elsewhere, my mistake)
few more links: ISS - Swine flu genes traced to North Carolina factory farm
MotherJones.com | Advertisement
Swine Flu Ancestor Born on U.S. Factory Farms | Wired Science | Wired.com
Swine flu: is intensive pig farming to blame? |
Environment |
guardian.co.uk
BBC NEWS | Programmes | File on 4 | Swine flu's farming connection?
and a 1996 report by 60 minutes where local residents were worried that factory pig farms (in NC went from 2mn hogs to 10mn hogs within the 1990s) were screwing up the local water by illegally dumping waste
Pork Power - 60 Minutes - CBS News

merchants of fear wrote:

masterminding and carrying out 911

What happened to crazy Al Kyda #2?

I don't have an opinion because I don't have anywhere near the knowledge to guess about Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, and I don't care because I think trying to choose a single mastermind misses any relevant point

I got a call at 7 this morning from my dad....he was irritated as all get out over this 'development'...he couldn't even talk about it really other than say this was very bad move and bad for the country. I think he thinks it will dig up more harm than provide closure for 9/11 families. I haven't had my brainstorm session yet honestly about it. I never liked the enemy combatants thing. If we were at war, we were at war. There are rules that apply to enemies that don't wear uniforms. Should have followed that, IMHO. This whole thing has been a cluster from day one, and things aren't improving.

Newbie 101 wrote:

but the destruction of the civic myth

Just wondering, how old you are? (Note: I'm not being insulting like: Ha Ha Ha, you still believe in civics, are you wet behind the ears. ha ha ha. No, I'm more interested because I see the "civic myth" as being part of the genetic behavior of people and some people discover that civics is a myth soon than later). So, just wondering when you discovered the myth part.

And it continues, news from the Twilight Zone :

FT.com / US / Economy & Fed - White House hits out at plan to strip Fed powers

“No regulator had a perfect record leading up to the crisis,” said Mr Wolin (deputy Treasury Secretary) at the American Bar Association. “But in our view, the Federal Reserve is the agency best equipped for the task of supervising the largest, most complex firms.”

Hey, nobody is perfect, therefore, choose the group to regulate that has no interest in doing that task. Great. Just great...

Vonbek,
Yes and the 'waterboarding' will have to be considered in a '911' trial I would think and its reliability in getting an accurate 'confession'...all the evidence brought by prosecutors will have nothing to do with the 'waterboarding' confession...it will have to be real evidence...the Gitmo 'torture' issue will come up again from this trial IMO...

HollywoodHack (homepage, profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Fri, 11/13/2009 - 5:30 pm
It is funny how the boogeyman in Kelo has utterly disappeared

No it hasn't. The principle exposed (that obviously not everyone realizes yet) is that the government owns all housing and everything else, this being even more obvious now. And very gradually, it becomes clear that they own your children, and your body too.
As has been discussed here, they own the productive labor of your unborn grandchildren. What boogeyman has disappeared?

Newbie 101 wrote:

is that the government owns all housing and everything else, this being even more obvious now.

Ah, well, of course they do, in theory. But, don't forget, when we were fighting "the cold war" the concept of Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) kinda wrapped everybody's property up into one big happy package didn't it? What difference does it make if "the government" incinerates your property (to show them godless commies who's boss) of simply takes it at "fair value"? It's all one big group mess now.

"BHO can then get out all the stuff that his rabid base "

A tendentious way of putting it.

merchants of fear,
last pig post, but interstate livestock movements via http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/ldp/jun03/ldpm10801/ldpm10801.pdf
Farrowing in NC (born), shipped to Iowa to be fed/grown, shipped to and then slaughtered in California
since the meat packing industry in North America is dominated by a few US based firms, I wouldn't be surprised if there was high connectivity at earlier stages

Newbie 101 wrote:

all of the things a people believes about itself that makes large-scale cohesion possible, peoplehood, nationhood

That's what the democratic concept is for, i guess. To let people build a common myth without resorting to killing each other first.

EHP,
Did I hear oink oink? Rolling Stone's 2006 article on pig fams is riveting, **Boss Hog **
America's top pork producer churns out a sea of waste that has destroyed rivers, killed millions of fish and generated one of the largest fines in EPA history. Welcome to the dark side of the other white meat......

RFK has an article too. ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR. ON SMITHFIELD FOODS CRIMINAL BEHAVIOUR:
......Millions of tons of fecal stew produced by the meat factories has poisoned groundwaters in 34 states with deadly nitrates
...... A spill from one hog lagoon killed one billion fish in the Neuse River in 1995.
...Hog factory contaminants have also fostered outbreaks of a previously unknown microbe, Pfiesteria piscicida, in America’s coastal waters. Pfiesteria, kills billions of fish and causes open sores that won’t heal, severe respiratory illness and brain damage in humans who handle fish or swim in the water.

What time does the FDIC post which banks its taking over?

Terry,
I don't want to join the political back and forth, but I don't remember you normally being so charged up, and I'm just wondering if that is in reaction to other posts here or if there was a recent change in your environment outside CR (eg the CARD act or Dodd's bill)

EHP - '...Idon't care because I think trying to choose a single mastermind misses any relevant point.'

A relevant point might be, however, that one of the biggest Crimes of the New Century anyway should at least have a trial in order to convict those responsible for 911.

I asked my Magic 8 Ball and it said "8" for BFF ... including Frontier Bank in Washington.

rps wrote:

Pfiesteria

More environmental wachoism. Would the honest hard workin bidness leaders of Merica, the greatest country on earth, be so immoral as to put their own interests above the interests of Merica? No, of course not.

It's occurred to me that the "American Dream" is essentially "the greater fool" mode of operation: stock prices, real estate, bubble of any kind - it all runs into problems when its difficult to find the greater fool to take whatever of your hands. Marketing and Madison Ave. do their best to convince the greater fool. If a bank fails its because they can't find the greater fool.

EvilHenryPaulson wrote:

I don't want to join the political back and forth, but I don't remember you normally being so charged up, and I'm just wondering if that is in reaction to other posts here or if there was a recent change in your environment outside CR (eg the CARD act or Dodd's bill)

Having to deal with Washington on a daily basis over the past 8 months has me beat down EHP. venting.

NOTaREALmerican (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Fri, 11/13/2009 - 5:49 pm
Newbie 101 wrote:

all of the things a people believes about itself that makes large-scale cohesion possible, peoplehood, nationhood

That's what the democratic concept is for, i guess. To let people build a common myth without resorting to killing each other first.

Now I'm talking to you specifically: Let me make clear that I'm using the older meaning of the word "myth" that is about more than "made-up stories", and has some positive functions in the art of living. Some faith and hope is necessary to live, but one must be strict about what he grants those to.

merchants of fear wrote:

a trial in order to convict those responsible for 911

A trial, however, makes it less of a "war". More like a crime. That could be an issue too.

rps,
just when I thought I was out, you pull me back in. what really gets my goat about the factory pig farms, is that they drive responsible farmers out of the market or force them to do the same bad practices. Sure prices would be higher, and I'm okay with that. But if we're talking about prices paid to the farmer, then the real question to bring up is why the meatpackers and retailers get all the money, but that would bring up some thorny anti-trust issues that don't jive with getting support for your next election

I have never been comfortable using 'crime' as a descriptor for 9/11. I don't refer to the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor as a crime....9/11 holds the same place. The problem is this is a new kind of war, or more appropriately, a revival of an older type of war. We don't have the attention span for fighting a generational conflict, and yet that is what we find ourselves in.

HomeGnome wrote:

You, too, can be a winner!

Unfortunately "we" are all losers in this game.

NPR had a biggish pig farmer on a few weeks ago--a person,
not a company--who said he was losing money with every pig,
and would be out of business soon if prices didn't go up.

lawyerliz wrote:

NPR had a biggish pig farmer on a few weeks ago--a person,
not a company--who said he was losing money with every pig,
and would be out of business soon if prices didn't go up

Had lunch with the president of one of the farm credit banks last week - loans to hog operations is their biggest problem right now

Understood...it doesn't for everyone. I won't argue the point. Suffice to say, my dad was in the office of the general killed at the pentagon two days before the attack. It affected me differently.

Not gonna find work there........shutting it down to. The Press Republican - State vows help for Pfizer employees

including Frontier Bank in Washington.

I think that there will be a minimum of 2 in Washington, including Frontier. Rainier Pacific ran out of time on Tuesday. We also have not had any closures for quite some time.

Vonbek777 wrote:

Understood...it doesn't for everyone. I won't argue the point. Suffice to say, my dad was in the office of the general killed at the pentagon two days before the attack. It affected me differently.

My old boss from the late '80s was killed on Flight 11. A really decent guy too-

badger wrote:

Nobody can be making money at that price.

Farmers are the canaries in the mine for the economy. In the 30's, they were the first ones hit (recall, dumping milk)

Beef cattle are in real trouble too. Don't know about chickens, but the cost of raising chicks is much lower.

NOTaREALmerican (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Fri, 11/13/2009 - 6:00 pm

I'm not sure everybody has the same strictness standards.

That would matter less if government were limited.
But government won't stay limited.
And THAT shatters the foundations, not in a small way, but fundamentally.

I'm here, I'm here, but will be off to Merritt Island soon.

Yeah, and the pain hasn't stopped. Pretty bad when the first thing you talk to your dad about on the phone is do you remember so and so...you were maybe 6, so you probably don't....he punched his ticket today...or worse yet, do you remember the so and so family, you used to play with the oldest boy...he went into the army, just visited him at the hospital, lost both legs and a arm, you should try to write a letter. Military community is big, but it is still pretty small. It is taking a toll.

Newbie 101 wrote:

But government won't stay limited.

It can't stay limited because there are very smart people, with different standards than you (and I, perhaps), that understand it doesn't benefit them to have it stay limited. Concentrating the loot in one place makes it much easier to steal.