why don't I have a hottie necklacing?

Who's going to own all those foreclosures?

Looks like it will be a while yet before we hit bottom. I'm wondering how long it will be before the "Government will take care of us all" meme is going to run into reality. Since the "capitalism is great (without regulations)" meme has also derailed, what will we have next?

,rad vtv,

I'll assure you she existed last thread.

Thx for the posting in last thread on China Yuan and new basket of currencies. The Chinese squid seeks more soft currencies into which to sink its blood probe. Were Nixon not dead, it would be time to kill that SOB. Eric, finally a job for you.

I'm still getting bombarded (here in the OC) by people telling me "it's the time to buy". Same people as 2006, same message. I tell them until foreclosures start going down, we aint at the bottom. Sigh.

dr munch
its always deju vu here

nanoo
how did it look,the van i mean

It had a plumbing company label on it.

Since no one's on topic anyway, here's something interesting:

How the Government Is Swallowing the Economy - Yahoo! Finance

You know about the bailouts, the stimulus plan, cash for clunkers, and moola for mansions. But for all the anxiety they've caused, those government giveaways are just a tiny part of a mushrooming problem.

By one measure, the government already plays an outsize role in our so-called free-market economy--and it has little to do with the recession. Economist Gary Shilling has calculated that 58 percent of the population is dependent on the government for "major parts of their income," including teachers, soldiers, bureaucrats, and other government employees; welfare and Social Security recipients; government pensioners; public housing beneficiaries; and people who work for government contractors. By 2018, Shilling estimates, an astounding 67 percent of Americans could be dependent on the government for their livelihood. The implications aren't comforting....

I like "Moola for Mansions".

I think it's time to call the TARP and such by a more appropriate name: "Squeezings for the Squid"

dr munch wrote:

I tell them until foreclosures start going down, we aint at the bottom.

"House prices have pulled out of their free fall, but don't expect them to recover until we work through a huge property glut.."
Housing market still faces a big glut - Nov. 10, 2009

oh i thought it would be the black ones bristling with antennas, you know sort of like a porkeepine

Cinco-X: "Anybody buying this logic?"

Yes. Single-party rule leads to rapid overreach and (we hope) self-correction within a few election cycles. Look at the Rep-Rep government from 2000 on for another example, or the Dem-Dem government from 1992-1994.

Slumdog wrote:

China holds a USD bag.

That tea is BITTER and difficult to swallow.

China holds a USD bag.

That tea is BITTER and difficult to swallow.

Steep for 5 months and then jump off the cliff.

JD, that's the question of the decade.

I don't know how single mothers with low paying jobs are affording $900/mo. for 2 br rentals. And that's probably a common occupancy demographic for a lot of 2 br apts.

gabyjan wrote:

oh i thought it would be the black ones bristling with antennas, you know sort of like a porkeepine

That's only in the movies, where they "need" you to know what you're seeing without a narrator. The most you'd notice on a "real" one would be a fiberglass dome on top of something with a generic, probably magnetically applied sign on the side, and it would not say NSA. Probably Sears, or Rotor Rooter....
FWIW, I saw an FCC van when I was a kid, and it did have antennas. I think they now just wait for complaints before they go out looking for spurious radiation. Cable TV and the Internet has taken the place of subversive pirate radio stations.

Cinco-X wrote:

Cable TV's Jon Stewart and the Internet has taken the place of subversive pirate radio stations.

Ok fixed that.

Cinco-X wrote:

Anybody buying this logic?

Yup- they are politically dumb. Early next year by all accounts the increase in premiums is going to be steep. It has nothing to do with the health care plan but it certainly will be tied to. If they were smart they would force Republicans to filibuster this plan. When it fails they would have an issue to go to the 2010 elections. Many of the people who have lost their jobs or will lose their jobs are part of the insured pool who have been protected from the pain of the private market because of the COBRA subsidy (wonder how many tea baggers are benefiting from that while criticizing the plan). Let the COBRA subsidy expire higher premiums that there might be enough pain so that we can have a rational discussion.

"Total assets in money-market funds fell by $31.3 billion last week to roughly $3.34 trillion, according to the Investment Company Institute’s most recent reading on Nov. 4.

The funds held about $3.16 trillion in January 2008. Over the next year, that number climbed as concern over the market hit a fever pitch. Money market cash reached $3.9 trillion by March 4, 2009, the last reading before the major averages put in their multiyear lows."

Are Shrinking Money Funds a Bullish Sign? at SmartMoney.com

Nanoo-Nanoo wrote:

Cable TV's Jon Stewart and the Internet has taken the place of subversive pirate radio stations.

Ok fixed that.

I still enjoy JS, despite his leanings
Most of time, anyway-

volker the viking wrote:

not me, they'll attach a proviso in the finished bill whereby employers who layoff due to this will be fined an amount equal to their anticipated premium

To snark.... or not to snark. THAT! is the question.

nanoo
maybe got a better one or one to go along withFLU and that is the "electronic pearl harbor." supposedly happened in 07 just sort of popped up rescently. combined excellent excuse

This blog appears to have become an island of doom and gloom in an apparent sea of rising prosperity. What if the herds are right?

While not a raising the minimum wage equivalent, if an employer can't afford to spend 8.5% on employee benefits they probably weren't going to be in business much longer anyway. For many small businesses, they will just drop and pay the 8.5%, which will save money for them.

,rad gruntled,

You need to read "The Crowd" by Gustave Le Bon.

The herd hasn't a clue...

thanks cinco-x
i saw fcc van long while ago, and i would swear i saw a fdic van going down my road, it was placard i am too slow and old to have ran after it and my car is almost as old so she wouldnt. but i swear it said fdic

gruntled wrote:

What if the herds are right?

the herd, you mean

Well, the herd is right until it ain't. All this skittering to and fro amongst assets, trends, blah, blah, blah is one form or another of herd mentality. It sure is fun to watch.

pretty soon gabyjan: Those vans will be selling ice-cream door to door in Stimulus package II.

gabyjan wrote:

i saw fcc van long while ago, and i would swear i saw a fdic van going down my road, it was placard i am too slow and old to have ran after it and my car is almost as old so she wouldnt. but i swear it said fdic

Are you up in Maine, Vermont? I don't recall, since I'm old too....You're originally from GA, right?

josap wrote:

Where do you see that prosperity?
Jobs, nope.
Retail, nope.
Construction, nope.
Solvent banks, nope.
Lower forclosers, nope.
Just wondering if you are seeing something I am missing. Wall Street is not Main Street

Well DUH! It's at of course
/snark

Nanoo-Nanoo wrote:

..interesting how things like that can happen but not global financial reforms, isn't it?

too busy doing triage on the patient to cure the disease

The most striking peculiarity presented by a psychological crowd is the following: Whoever be the individuals that compose it, however like or unlike be their mode of life, their occupations, their character, or their intelligence, the fact that they have been transformed into a crowd puts them in possession of a sort of collective mind which makes them feel, think, and act in a manner quite different from that in which each individual of them would feel, think, and act were he in a state of isolation. There are certain ideas and feelings which do not come into being, or do not transform themselves into acts except in the case of individuals forming a crowd.-- From The Crowd, A Study Of The Popular Mind (1896)

The Crowd: A Study of the Popular Mind

josap wrote:

Where do you see that prosperity?
Jobs, nope.
Retail, nope.
Construction, nope.
Solvent banks, nope.
Lower forclosers, nope.
Just wondering if you are seeing something I am missing. Wall Street is not Main Street

The question was somewhat rhetorical. I am just amazed at and confused by the "resilience of the rally."

gruntled
if they are right they are right but that dont mean i have to go out and buy stuff i dont need and dont want to be one of them, and thats exactly what they are going to do, they are just chomping at the bit, they are going to do their bit do get every bubble there is back up. but thats their problem.not mine

Then in the distance we see raining down . . .

As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

Apparatchica N-N,

You are obviously hanging out with the wrong crowd...

A crowd is not merely impulsive and mobile. Like a savage, it is not prepared to admit that anything can come between its desire and the realisation of its desire. It is the less capable of understanding such an intervention, in consequence of the feeling of irresistible power given it by its numerical strength. The notion of impossibility disappears for the individual in a crowd. An isolated individual knows well enough that alone he cannot set fire to a palace or loot a shop, and should he be tempted to do so, he will easily resist the temptation. Making part of a crowd, he is conscious of the power given him by number, and it is sufficient to suggest to him ideas of murder or pillage for him to yield immediately to temptation. An unexpected obstacle will be destroyed with frenzied rage. -- The Crowd

Sounds like the L.A. Riots of the early 1990's to me, no?

Obama Has Very Few Economic Choices
Thomas F. Cooley, 11.11.09, 12:01 AM EST
More debt-financed stimulus isn't one of them.

This bad news is not unexpected in that the labor market always rebounds with a lag. But it is bad enough that the Administration is being put under pressure to engage in more stimulus spending. That isn’t likely to happen.

It isn’t likely because the Treasury recently closed the books on fiscal 2009 and the news is not good. The fiscal deficit for the year was $1.4 trillion, an increase of more than $960 billion over fiscal 2008. In a $14 trillion dollar economy, that represents nearly 10% of GDP. The last time we were this indebted was during World War II. These facts should seriously temper any euphoria over the third-quarter turnaround in GDP growth.

gabyjan: West, Piedmont or east NC?

still say they are not bonuses,but parachute
god really dont like mortals doing HIS work.

greensboro

"Just this spring, economic conditions were drastically different than they are today. We were engaged in battle against an attack that ravaged our economy on four fronts. First: a collapse in home building, the worst we’d seen since the Great Depression. Second: a reversal of wealth—the worst decline in real or nominal terms that we can find in data that begin in 1952. Third: a financial panic, complete with extreme risk aversion and a credit contraction in securities and direct credit markets. And last but not least: a bank credit crunch.

A severe contraction had taken root beginning in the fall of 2008, and the Federal Reserve, as the monetary authority of the United States, was duty-bound to do everything within its power to mitigate the damage. Our task was no less than to drag the global economy abruptly and forcefully from the edge of the abyss."

Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas / Richard W. Fisher
The Current State of the Economy and a Look to the Future - Richard Fisher Speeches, 11-10-09 - News & Events - FRB Dallas

I ask as I was raised in the foothills of the Smokies not far from the National Park, we're sorta ex-neighbors.

energyecon wrote:

show me the rising prosperity...please do
energyecon: Personal Income: Private Wages Year Over Year Change
energyecon: EMRATIO - Continued negative acceleration Year Over Year
oh and this driver for the 'prosperity'
energyecon: Deficit as a % of Spending

We apparently have a Fed that's determined to reinflate. Mishkin's recent article in FT, however stupid it may have sounded to some, is quite revealing. He may in fact be acting as an unofficial spokesperson for the Fed. So given this determination and the power of the printing presses, why not join the herd?

Nanoo-Nanoo wrote:

I ask as I was raised in the foothills of the Smokies not far from the National Park, we're sorta ex-neighbors.

Cue the theme from Deliverance:

The question was somewhat rhetorical. I am just amazed at and confused by the "resilience of the rally."

liquidity driven rally coupled with fear and govt spurring.

I will never forget this, but it rung true at the time and still does.
Wayne Angel, ex-Fed buffoon was interviewed on CNBC just as the crisis was starting. I think in late 2007.

his words: (paraphrased):
we have to drop the Fed Funds rate and we have to force savers to jump into the market. That's the only way to solve this situation.

indeed.

drop savings rates to real negative territory.
force everybody to gamble in the various markets.
we have nothing but liquidity. too bad it isn't paired with solvency in many cases.

I've been sitting here struggling in mostly cash equivalents for some time. (sure I got my gold and oil too, but most of my resources are in cash equivalents).

as this drags on even I consider getting back into the market. Not because I think it's a wise idea, but because I feel that the govt is gonna jump off the cliff taking my money with them (and of course tossing it to the squid).

The cognitive dissonance is making my head ache......

Cinco-x,

It's important to understand that Wall Streeters actually "earned" their bonuses. The fact that Central Banks and Governments the world over embarked on an unprecedented asset reflation campaign had nothing to do with it.

In the case of Goldman, the big bonuses are a reward form God!

Angry Saver wrote:

Cinco-x,
It's important to understand that Wall Streeters actually "earned" their bonuses. The fact that Central Banks and Governments the world over embarked on an unprecedented asset reflation campaign had nothing to do with it.
In the case of Goldman, the big bonuses are a reward form God!

Actually, God Blankfein displayed tremendous amounts of humility.

I've never heard a banker refer to themselves as anything but God before.

thus, to acknowledge that they aren't God's, but are merely doing God's work.

such humility.

All praise the squid.

North GA to be exact. I bet we are distant relatives in all seriousness Gabyjan. I run into a lot of expats up here, and from Texas too (I don't count them as southerners like some do). There are enough to keep open a few oinky BBQ places. The very best BBQ ever, ever, ever is from NC.

gruntled

But how do they reinflate without trashing RRE, CRE, option arms that will be reset soon, commercial credit lines etc?

How do they inflate with high unemployment?

This is JMO: If interest rates stay low the dollar dumps and we are Argentina. If interest rates rise credit stops cold and we are Iceland. If they do nothing, we are Japan.

I didn't get to see what was actually inside.

then you were lucky

"Steve Liesman just held up a basketball and a quarter. He pointed out that the circumference of a quarter is 10% of that of the basketball."

That's some olde-fashioned misdirection. The volume of the basketball is several thousand times the volume of the coin.

nova
the fdic van or the nsa van?

Comrade Kristina wrote:

Ahhh yes. They are doing Gods work...

Thanks a lot. What'd I ever do to you!?
BTW, are you ever going to send me that pork sausage and shrimp recipe. Hopefully it'll get here before I'm reduced to eating

I don't know whose van it is or why I kept seeing it where I did. I saw the inside because I used to cut through the US Marshalls parking and staging area on the way to work.

edit: Then I would see it coming back in or leaving that area.

NateTG wrote:

That's some olde-fashioned misdirection. The volume of the basketball is several thousand times the volume of the coin.

I'd think that a basketball and a softball might be closer to a 10:1 ratio-

Makes me wonder how many BKs will be caused by the "recovery".

NateTG, wasn't Liesman a history major?

YouTube - basketball jones orig. 1975 animated

gruntled wrote:

So given this determination and the power of the printing presses, why not join the herd?

Because the herd is not participating in this 'prosperity' - income disparity is increasing, record numbers of US citizens are on food stamps, foreclosure activity is accelerating and ultimately, the truth is that running the printing press doesn't create prosperity - and big picture, with a five year old I see the world your 'prosperity' is building for her.

So while the Fed is pissing in the ear of the herd, you go ahead and tell them that the moisture they feel is gently falling rain...me, I'll find an umbrella.

Good morning all. I noticed some more really interesting and funny advertising yesterday. It was a kintting day so I had the radio on the two ads i noticed most ( because they were on heavy rotation) were the ads for the car title loan place and the title loan debt consolidation companies. hehehehehe. sometimes back to back. ahahahahahaha. oh boy. sorry. I was laughing so hard just now the snot was flying and i had to wipe my nose.

Honestly the car title place would be yakking about oh boy wouldnt a little extra cash this holiday season be a gift! Come on down it is quick, easy, and you keep the car!! And then the other add would be this concerned, calm, compassionate yet competent sounding voice asking "do you have title loans? Are thye out of your control? Is title loan debt crushing you? Have two or more title loans outstanding? Come see us blah blah inc. and we will get you back on track because we are on your side.

OOh another credit card consolidation/debt crush add metnioned bailouts. "Billions for banks, none for you! Come see us and we can help!

So J6p is getting it, they are using it in the media blitz to convince them to use them, so yeppers it wont be long till the pitchforks come out.

Oh one more anecdote---monday at work the pizza delivery dude was going through the lobby while cnn was on reporting about the 30 billion in bonuses this year and he just stopped. Dead stop. watching with disbelief and looks at me and says...no way! and of course i say ..way! The anger on his face was priceless. So the anger is spreading, the regular people are starting to get the gist of the fist they got, and i say that christmas will be when the families start grumbling and by january the heat will be on.

Wayne Angel was wrong. We tried that and it didin't work.

I disagree. It didn't work initially

but the prolonged hold at negative real rates is certainly getting my attention, and thus I'd guess other people's as well.

now I agree, it won't work long term. but who cares about that? we just need to get things back to normal. (and by normal I mean a bubble).
as we all know, the only thing more kind and benevolent than the squid, is the bubble.

all hail the bubble God, and our squid overlords.

volker the viking wrote:

who's following the declining volume in equities?

I've speculated that most reasonable investors are out of the market, and all that remains is HFT-

Mr. Slippery:

Saw your link on Gemcraft. They've got a townhouse complex not far from here and have continued to build for all they're worth. Obviously, cash flow is king at the moment.

That said, mebbe now's the time to go in and lowball the hell out of 'em for a townhouse.

Of course, who's gonna do the complex maintenance for townhouses with a ton of college students?

On an offnote to kcoop, you're doing great and I appreciate everything, but I just flushed and my comments aren't reloading properly. I've been using generic toilet paper. Would that have an effect?

the big boys have parked the car and are taking the subway home

Dow volume, 1 yr chart.

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=%5EDJI#chart4:symbol=^dji;range=1y;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined

volker
nope

The higher the market goes, the more JP6 is leaving the market.

JP6 is not sold on this market and is withdrawing huge amounts of cash from U.S. equity mutual funds week after week.

Five weeks in a row, -16 billion cumulatively. That's a stunning number.

J6P is running as fast as he can into bonds.

Money managers do not make 401(k) investment choices. J6P does.

Money managers make defined benefit pension choices. DB plans probably are increasing equity allocations, but it's not the driving force behind the market. DB pension plan money is not leveragable.

The driving force is institutional speculative, leveraged money...day-to-day trading money of huge players.

She's not claiming them just as I never did despite living there 25 years. HA!

what about a soccer ball and a basketball?

how about the human head compared to the body.
The human head is about 8% of the human body by weight.

naah.... that analogy is too scary.

How about this then:
10% unemployment isn't important at all. because it's really only the lazy people anyway.

here's a good analogy:
Osama Bin Laden's turban is about 10% of the volume of the American Eagle as it soars above the clouds in Freedom.

do we really want to think about that turban now... do we?

Here's how I see the stock market.

The vast majority of the stock market gains are and will accrue to the likes of Goldman Sachs and hedge fund managers. Investors (actual holders) will lose as the value backing the gains is less than the price. Future output will fail to meet the output priced into the stock market. Inflation will not arrive as expected.

When the bagholders try and cash in their "gains", they will find out the difference between value and price.

I posted this link early this morning on the overnight thread but it seems relevant to foreclosures and displaced people. This is where those people are going..and what results...

Daily Kos: I'm scared.  And I'm really f@cking angry. (Addendum now added).

"Billy Ray: Sounds to me like you guys a couple of bookies."

Apparatchica Kristina,

What are some of the more shocking things your clientele has been saying to you in regards to the economy, out there in psy-drink-ops?

I loved when you told us about the stripper that was barely breaking even, things being that tight.

you know that the"turban" will be up pretty soon looks like they trying to get it up now.its the "more to scare you with,my dear" in other words same old same old.

our benevolent overlords would never use something so serious to galvanize public support allowing them to continue unpopular policies.
terror is serious business, as is the safety of our people, and the defense of Freedom. They have no business being politicized.

oh crap, I can't even snark it.

I will say that I've been relatively surprised at the lack of terror fear-mongering under our current administration. That is not to say that I believe this will remain the status quo... only that I've been surprised thus far.

Rob Dawg,
What's you take on the situation out in Orange County?

Cinco:
.....

For coming compensation at Citigroup and Bank of America, the Treasury required the banks to pay executives almost entirely in stock. That means if performance goals are met, 19 executives at Citigroup would split $113 million in stock this year and 12 executives at Bank of America would share in $73.6 million in stock. (Each bank is also paying roughly $5 million of these executives’ salaries in cash.)

But greater upside lurks. If Citigroup’s stock returns to its early 2008 price of $29, from just above $4 on Friday, the executives’ shares from this year alone would be worth more than $800 million. Even if the stock rose to only $12, their shares would be worth $340 million.

It is just part of the clusterf*fiesta! IMO.
Windfall Seen as Bank Bonuses Are Paid in Stock - DealBook Blog - NYTimes.com

At Bank of America, seven executives could see their pay packages become worth more than $10 million each if the bank’s stock increases just $10. A bank spokesman, Bob Stickler, said, “Under that scenario, executives get paid because the shareholders are being paid.”
......

The trend appears to still be your friend. Lower dollar, higher gold price.
Gold Price Surges to 1117 as US Dollar Falls to 15-Month Low

While I still have my long term gold position, I don't think having a shorter term position at this time is a good idea. While I wouldn't want to short gold right now, from a risk-return perspective I think having no short term position is the best option currently.

Hmmm hard to be shocked anymore by them. One was on a rant about the "Mooslims" last night. His plan was to round them up like we did those "Japs" during WW2. The general consensus is one of doom. Most don't think this is over by a long shot and more and more are seeing the banks for what they are...

Nanoo-Nanoo,

Pisgah? That's incredibly beautiful country.

If foreclosure rates in CA are still increasing, where real estate slid into recession before other states; then nationally real estate is a long way from hitting bottom. Especially in states where new laws and moratoriums have created a backlog of foreclosures.

Angry Saver wrote:

When the bagholders try and cash in their "gains", they will find out the difference between value and price.

No. The bagholders this time are going to be the big sophisticated TBTF institutions. Not J6P.

The institutions are providing the gains and liquidity for J6P to exit the market with less damage than he thought possible.

(the croupier announces: No More Bets, and seconds later the little ball falls into the 000 slot...)

It is a win win situation. If the herd is right the economy prospers and us along with it and if they are wrong we can say we told you so.

You'd think CR would throw out a little read meat about the barbarous, but he doesn't appear interested, pity.

Yearning to Learn wrote:

no way. casinos have rules.

and oversight.

mike_
but but mike we have the fed!!!!!!!!!!

In casino-ese, somebody wagering large amounts of money in the green-felt jungle, is referred to as a "Whale".

The current crop of brobdingnagians on Wall*Street are more like Moby Dicks~

Well, at least the delta on my puts is going down, so every day is less painful.

"Always look on the bright.. side.. of life...."

Last Friday, a huge crowd of fans marched in a ticker-tape parade in downtown Manhattan to celebrate the Yankees’ World Series championship. More than once, as the fans passed through the financial district, the crowd erupted in rhythmic, echoing chants of “Wall Street sucks! Wall Street sucks!”

From Bob Herbert in yesterday's NYTimes column. People apparently get it; unfortunately, they are aware of their powerlessness before the mighty squid.

jd
you know sperm whale kill giant squids? but killer whale (packs or pods?) can kill the sperm moby dick was a sperm. i say go with the killers(notice i didnt say ocras,thats because it aint pc to say things like that about those cute warm fuzzy creatures)
kcoop need pack of killer whales.

Orange County is fantasyland still. Those who haven't been affected go about their day the same way they did during the bubble. Those that have been foreclosed/laid off hide it by playing a dangerous game of credit card roulette.

And everyone around me still thinks it's an awesome time to buy because prices have bottomed and besides OC is special - it was never meant to see the kind of drops that happened in the crappier parts of So Cal.

I personally know some knife catchers who bought investment properties in the last year. They're very proud of their financial prowess because prices have stopped falling since early this year.

Nanoo, I think of the changes my grandparents saw in those regions - Mom's Dad lived almost to one hundred, and was born in 1894. So, yes, I do understand. Certainly I've seen enough farms and forests vanish in my own time.

Just saw some excerpts from David Rosenberg which underscore some of what dryfly had to say yesterday regarding automated manufacturing and future employment prospects:

11 Million Job Buffer From Efficiency And Part Time Workers Before Even One Person Needs To Be Rehired | zero hedge 

I remember reading how the desperation sunk in amongst the populace in the late summer of 1931, when they realized the new normal wasn't going away, but their jobs were.

Good article by Maureen Dowd. I learned an unfamiliar word as well; "concupiscence".

It should be added to our glossary......" a word describing broward and a few others on CR."

Eric, just read the postings. At the close you are supposed to be shorting gold. Or, if you'd like to fade me, go long at the close. Best.

,rad BSR,

I realized what a waste it was to support a regime I couldn't stand vis a vis paying taxes to support their aims, so my wife and I, both useful people, decided to get off the ride many years ago.

Walking away from the system isn't that hard, once you are past the wire and can look back at what you left behind...

Bosch -

Dryfly asked for more emphasis on the liberal arts. After I picked up my jaw, I realized he meant it. Possibly a difficult sell among the commentariat.

rich,

Nice summary!

dum luk
are these the same people who think housing,and autos are cheap.
jmo this market is way over rated come into my parlor said the spider to the fly kind of over rated

Angry Saver wrote:

rich,
Nice summary!

Agreed. BTW, I was really only implying that I couldn't see how the market could do what it is doing based on fundamentals. Nevertheless, I managed to learn something anyway from some very thoughtful replies.

burnside, thanks for kind words and understanding going so far off topic. I appreciate the link, its amazing and I shake my head at the architects of this mess. Basically, if you're not a market player and part of the elite class, you're toast.

I work with cost estimates for medical frequently. The amazing thing about the major current proposals is how little they have to do with improving outcomes.

Perhaps reducing the amount of sugar in our diets might help?

Yalt -

I can't help feeling we've given too little value to hospitality and the life of the mind. Not that we've written it off - people snatch a bit of time when they can to enjoy friends and kids and every kind of cultivation. Still, sitting down and thinking looks too much like doing nothing in the present Zeitgeist.

some investor guy wrote:

Perhaps reducing the amount of sugar in our diets might help?

Sir, pull your grocery cart over away from the aisle and show us your HFCS permit and health care exemption.

Understand sir, this is for your own good and we only do it because Obama Cares.

Cinco-X wrote:

Easy to win at a casino; I've never been, but I had a friend put a $20 on red for me, and he came back with $40. Piece of cake Maybe the Fed should try that?

They did and won but took their cut and left us with

Anonymous Bosch wrote:

I'm incredulous though. Liberal Arts? To, uh, (how to phrase this so as to not to appear too indelicate), uh, make a living?
Can we export those?

The Far East could use them, since they're turning out engineers by the bucket load-

"The Far East could use them, since they're turning out engineers by the bucket load- "

The Far East has plenty of its own liberal arts and plenty of liberal arts majors, for that matter.

JD - Basketball jones! I love it!

(I never knew that was cheech & chong)

burnside wrote:

Still, sitting down and thinking looks too much like doing nothing in the present Zeitgeist.

I have a hard time reading when my wife is around. She seems to assume I'm not doing anything, and decides to come over make suggestions about what I could do if I'm bored, or worse yet, wants "to talk".....

Juvenal Delinquent wrote:

Who are you gonna Calamari?
Goldman Busters!

When there's a giant squid
in your neighborhood..
Who ya gonna calamari?
Goldman Busters!

Haralambos wrote:

It is a pretty good basis for learning to think and learning to learn.

+1 (!)

Rob Dawg wrote:

Sir, pull your grocery cart over away from the aisle and show us your HFCS permit and health care exemption.
Understand sir, this is for your own good and we only do it because Obama Cares

There was something on the tube recently about companies advertising their worst (most sugar-laden) children's cereals much more than others. I would understand if "Obama Cares" tried to do something about this sort of thing.

The 90 day late chart looks like one of yours CR. That chart depicts the lunacy.

So who is holding all the delinquent paper? There is a growing lack of cash flow.

A good Obama care procedure wold be a weight scale tied to your food stamp renewal. Overweight less money on your card. See more healthy Americans requiring less health care while saving taxpayer money. Never happen because there is less tax money to steal.

Blackhalo, if I'd read all of Balzac as a youngster, I'd either have recognized our current dilemma long before I did, or I'd have been one of those creating it for their own profit. Presumably the former.

Not barista training by a long shot.

LBD: You really don't get it. Do you shop for groceries? What is cheapest on those shelves? What fills growling tummies with volume vs good nutrition? What meat cuts are the cheapest?

"...the Treasury recently closed the books on fiscal 2009 and the news is not good. The fiscal deficit for the year was $1.4 trillion, an increase of more than $960 billion over fiscal 2008. In a $14 trillion dollar economy, that represents nearly 10% of GDP. The last time we were this indebted was during World War II. These facts should seriously temper any euphoria over the third-quarter turnaround in GDP growth."

Obama Has Very Few Economic Choices
Thomas F. Cooley, 11.11.09, 12:01 AM EST
More debt-financed stimulus isn't one of them.

Cinco-X wrote:

It would be better for parents to do something about this sort of thing-

Yes, that too.

burnside wrote:

+1 (!)

Thanks, burnside. I have been a student of the liberal arts for most of my 60 years, and it gave me enough independence to learn from every job I had, from grease monkey, cardboard box machine operator,and construction to the multiple skills that it takes to manage and carry out every work aspect of a good-sized restaurant in Chicago. I have also taught in three countries and learned four foreign languages. At present I am self-employed as an academic editor and my work is in demand, since I can deal with texts across the disciplines from medicine to economics to the humanities.

I think the liberal arts prepare one for what is a current buzzword in education: lifelong learning. I hope it is obvious that learned something from every job I ever had and never felt ashamed about what I did in any of them.

cinco, I live in fear of people like you behind me at the checkout.

I will eat whatever goddamn kind of cereal I choose. Cereal is not the root of the problem.
Physical health is in the dumpster because mental health is in the dumpster.

A steadily increasing percentage of our citizens are depressed, hopeless, broke, and powerless.
They eat too much, they drink too much alcohol, they are dependent on a variety of prescription medications tailored by our gargantuan pharma industry, and sold to them by our gigantic marketing and advertising conglomerates.

Citizens have lost jobs and homes, and family members to overseas wars that have no hope of positive resolution.

Their cities have been taken over by gangs, their countrysides have been ravaged by factory farming and uncontrolled strip-mining.

And then we bitch'em out for being fat. This is nothing but a distraction, just meaningless petty attacks on fellow citizens who have lost all sense of purpose or hope for the future. When you are caught like a rat in a trap, you may as well eat the freakin' cheese.

In the process, we fail to demand real solutions to tremendous problems, but we tolerate 120 minutes of pharmaceutical ads and beer marketing broadcast to the nation at large during a single World Series game or Sunday Night Football telecast.

"Sugary Breakfast Cereal" my ass.

Outsider wrote:

Dryfly asked for more emphasis on the liberal arts. After I picked up my jaw, I realized he meant it. Possibly a difficult sell among the commentariat.

That's a difficult sell for me. I'm the product of 2 liberal arts degrees. They didn't really do me any favors.

I counsel my kids towards sciences. Maybe everything just comes down to rebound effect after all.

Let me clarify - that revelation came to me while I was discussing the current economic meltdown a year ago w/ my sister [BA Latin American Studies w/ heavy emphasis in political economy... JD & Masters in Tax Law... PhD in History - law emphasis]. We were discussing how to get the country back on an even keel. She too thought 'we need more engineers - we need more people making things'... I had always been a proponent of that... but I threw her a curve ball. I said

''Yes - we need more production and less consumption... we need to get the CAD down & strengthen the dollar via trade as opposed to manipulation... but we won't be hiring more people to do it - we don't need them, they only get in the way on the factory floor & to an increasing degree in the office... we have to find something else for them to do or we are screwed as a society."

That was when my sis and I agreed the country needs more performance artists... and poets... and potters. Because the factories and offices run just fine without them - actually run better with fewer people in the way to screw stuff up.

We just have to find some way to make sure they don't starve - we didn't have a politically correct answer to that one. Some how growing the Nat'l Endowment for the Arts to the size of the Social Security budget probably doesn't have a lot of traction.

dryfly, thanks. You know I never mean to misrepresent you, though it must look that way sometimes.