It will be recorded in the annals of this era that the shame was not in the disaster but in the complacency. I've said it before but history will judge this period as one of wasted opportunities.
If the IMF’s staff could speak freely about the U.S., it would tell us what it tells all countries in this situation: recovery will fail unless we break the financial oligarchy that is blocking essential reform.
For those interested in the overnight discussion of CalPERS I've put up a post on my blog preserving the links and my commentary so we can keep following the story. Exurban Nation: The CalPERS Crush Part 1
The Federal Reserve, the Bank of England, and the European Central Bank are all keeping interest rates exceedingly low and are continuing to engage in “quantitative easing.” The central banks have claimed that they are caught in a “liquidity trap” and cannot force interest rates to go any lower, especially below zero. Their solution is to continue to force liquidity into the banking system in order to keep the financial system functioning and to encourage commercial banks to start lending again.
I have a problem with this interpretation and have been writing about it since the events of the fall of 2008. The liquidity problem the central banks have focused upon is one connected with the liquidity of bank assets and security holdings that are hard to price. The central banks, as well as the United States Treasury, has seen this problem as a liquidity problem.
I see the basic problem as a solvency problem and argue that there is a significant difference between a “liquidity problem” and a “solvency problem.”
I've said it before but history will judge this period as one of wasted opportunities.
This is what really pissing me off.
Back in Feb/Mar, Obama could have really put the screws to Wall Street, and I don't think even the Republicans would have had the balls to say anything.
Now, unless we get back down to 600 on the SPX, he has no shot at reform. Zero. Zip. Nada.
bonuses arent bonuses.like someone said all things (must) come to an end. dont think us can break the loop dont know about anyone else. and dont know if us is just going to milk it as long as they can might as well.
my opinion
Nov. 6 (Bloomberg) -- John S. Reed, who helped engineer the merger that created Citigroup Inc., apologized for his role in building a company that has taken $45 billion in direct U.S. aid and said banks that big should be divided into separate parts.
“I’m sorry,” Reed, 70, said in an interview yesterday. “These are people I love and care about. You could imagine emotionally it’s not easy to see what’s happened.”
Congress’ overhaul of U.S. financial regulations should include ordering banks to hold more capital, ensuring executives’ compensation is aligned with long-term profitability and banning firms that take deposits from also engaging in equities and fixed-income trading, Reed said.
“I would compartmentalize the industry for the same reason you compartmentalize ships,” Reed said in the interview in his office on Park Avenue in New York. “If you have a leak, the leak doesn’t spread and sink the whole vessel. So generally speaking you’d have consumer banking separate from trading bonds and equity.”
Glass-Steagall Repeal
Lawmakers were wrong to repeal the Depression-era Glass- Steagall Act in 1999, Reed said. At the time, he supported overturn of the law, which required the separation of institutions that engaged in traditional customer banking services from those involved in capital markets.
“We learn from our mistakes,” said Reed, who wrote an Oct. 21 letter to the editor of the New York Times endorsing a division of banking activities. “When you’re running a company, you do what you think is right for the stockholders. Right now I’m looking at this as a citizen.”
Translation: All my senior preferred shares were wiped out and now I have to put whats left of my money in a bank and earn nothing on it like the rest of the great unwashed and I can't sell my 2.5 mil estate in CA. (I made all that up so I don't get sued).
I don't know why anyone is complaining. If you are dissatisfied with the quality and tenor of your governance in the area of bank reform just don't reelect Barney Frank in 2010. Oh wait. 310m people. 170m registered. 630k people in the 4th dist. 400k voters. 350k vote. More than 200k voted for him. Just remember this is the place where Gerrymandering was invented. There's no prying the tick off the dog. IMO the only solution is giving the dog a bath. In the upcoming primaries. DVI, Don't Vote Incumbent. This is in no way partisan, this is wide spectrum anti-parasite treatment. DVI.
I've said it before but history will judge this period as one of wasted opportunities.
Depends who writes the future. I'm sure future Annual Reports will highlight their cleverness and opportunism and ability to avoid enhanced regulation.
The way things are going, I will fly to Pakistan, find Osama, shave his beard, colour his hair (maybe purple), buy a decent suit for him, help out buying a nuke or two from Ruskies, fly together as gay couple to New York City together with nukes, rent apartment from 54th floor near Manhattan, set the timer ticking down from 24:00:00, say bye bye, rent a jet and fly to unknown destination, call my broker and tell him to short the hell out of every available stock and buy a helluva lot of gold. And tell my lawyers to meet me at Wall Street at XX:YY:ZZ
I hope he and all the others who contributed to this meltdown live long enough to see the full brunt of what they have wrought on their families and neighbors, and die of shame.
I hope he and all the others who contributed to this meltdown live long enough to see the full brunt of what they have wrought on their families and neighbors, and die of shame.
Who is 'he'? Did you have a particular amoral scumbag in mind?
the ex-Citibank guy who now sees this as a citizen -
Oh, Reed. Gotcha.
I'd hold him accountable for setting up this mess, but I wouldn't put him in front of a wall wearing a blindfold. That fate should be saved for those who have taken this crisis and turned taxpayer fraud into a new business model.
"Not much has been done to reform the banking system despite warnings from BofE's King, former Fed Chairman Paul Volcker, BofE's Haldane and others."
Yeah, but real reform would mean Timmy's $1.5 million dollar home would become worth $500K, and Ben Bernanke's home would suffer the same fate, and Larry Summer's home, and ..... an entire baby boomer upper middle class generation that learned to rely on tiny savings and giant asset price inflation for their future prosperity would have to confront reality. Much better to pass that reality check onto someone else.
Depends who writes the future. I'm sure future Annual Reports will highlight their cleverness and opportunism.
This is the one bright spot developing on the horizon. The meme is set:
The world's most powerful investment bank is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money.
This is a public relations nightmare on so many levels that it isn't even answerable so it just grows. When the disenfranchised hordes scream for revenge the politicians will have to choose between offering up the squid or sacrificing themselves and the squid. [Take my rhetorical flourishes as just that.]
Just imagine what would likely come to light if a smart and determined special prosecutor (think Patrick Fitzgerald) were appointed by the DOJ and Obama to get at the conspiracy that led Wall Street to lead us into abject failure.
Then pinch yourself to wake up to the reality that accountability (and prison) will never happen. Doesn't that make you feel better?
Dawg, your point is well taken about how the chairpersons of the various commitees in congress are voted to positions of great power by relatively few folks. Not sure how that will ever change.
I find Reed's comments perfectly honest. It is our mistake to believe that CEO's will act not act in manner that first protects their interests, then political party, then those of their shareholders, then their workers and finally the community at large. We consider them evil when they act like that rather in the inverse. It seems to me this is no different than defense lawyers- they are not going to act in the interests of fairness or justice- their job is to get their client off regardless of whether he is innocent or guilty. IMO are legal system is better off for it. I believe the same is true of CEO- we have to accept that there is an adversarial system at work. Once one does that the notion of "self regulation" clearly becomes absurd- equivalent to criminals self regulating themselves.
I find Reed's comments perfectly honest. It is our mistake to believe that CEO's will act not act in manner that first protects their interests, then political party, then those of their shareholders, then their workers and finally the community at large.
That is exactly right. We expect mothers to act in their childrens' best interests, not their neighbors', or the community at large, etc. Our Congressmen are the ones who should answer to us, the voters, and be held accountable for pursuing the general public's interest. Key people like Barney Frank and Chris Dodd are the ones whose feet should be held to the fire. Are you writing them, visiting them, contributing to them or to their opponents?
"It's been a hypothesis of mine for some time that one of the reasons for priestly celibacy in the Latin Rite is because celibate men are not so easily intimidated"
I wonder if that is part of the reason celibacy has become such a taboo in our present overstimulated and oversexed society, actually. Notwithstanding those hypocrites who obviously can't keep their vow, a number of folk have managed it successfully throughout history from saints to common people. I don't think that anyone who managed to successfully fight against one of the most powerful natural instincts we have would be easily intimidated by much of anything.
China Paper, Phosphate Harm U.S. Producers, ITC Says (Update1)
By Mark Drajem
Nov. 6 (Bloomberg) -- A U.S. trade commission ruled today that Chinese glossy paper and phosphates are harming domestic producers, escalating trade tensions ahead of President Barack Obama’s visit to China this month.
The rulings, which may lead to tariffs on the imports, were announced one day after the U.S. imposed preliminary duties of as much as 99 percent on certain Chinese steel-pipe imports. China called the pipe tariffs “discriminatory’’ and said it would start its own anti-dumping probe of American cars. China Paper, Phosphate Harm U.S. Producers, ITC Says (Update1) - Bloomberg.com
Didn't the Labor Department report double digit unemployment yesterday. "Doom loop" sounds like a fun roller-coaster ride in comparison.
rotfl
Oh, the economy is bad. But one thing that has amazed me about CR is the ability to write 'optimistically' even as the economy is going off the tracks.
Nov. 6 (Bloomberg) -- A U.S. trade commission ruled today that Chinese glossy paper and phosphates are harming domestic producers, escalating trade tensions ahead of President Barack Obama’s visit to China this month.
China launched a trade war under Clinton. We're only now responding? I don't like the potential consequences, but we cannot maintain this trade deficit any longer.
Domestic deflation and import inflation. I've said that for years. We've got to be near a tipping point. Right? (Ugh... extend and pretend)
Suppose I gotta replace the mental image of some guy kicking a can down the road with a doom loop.
But the doom loop image is hadron collider like - wait a minute- where's the breaker panel?
alas
The reason for Unions. So it isn't all a one-way street.
Management has finished their vendetta: Unions are dead. Incapabable of being a counterweight. Government has to vigorously take the role of public protector.
But it won't because it is owned by the biz interests.
Sorry, Ben Franklin. You and others gave us a Republic and we have proven we can't keep it.
Can someone explain why the House is in session today and when the last time the House was on session on Saturday to pass legislation?
Has anyone mentioned its because they are losing time to enact their agenda? The newsmedia reported they were in session on Saturday but there's no explanation why they can't vote on Monday...
Way too late. The FIRE tumor has metastacized, and is inoperable. A morphine drip has been inserted in the nation's body as it waits the end. The stench of death is in the air.
The administration will soon bring to Congress a request for an additional $50 billion for war. I can tell you, a Democratic version of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is no more acceptable than a Republican version of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Trillions for war, for Wall Street, billions for insurance companies. When we were promised change, we weren't thinking it meant we give a dollar and get back 2 cents.
U.S government tells Ken Lewis to retire and to not take salary and bonuses for this year.
U.S. government directs Citibank board members to resign and sell Phibro to "reduce risk".
Wake up! We already have de-facto nationalization of several banks and two large automakers. We just haven't paid the shareholders any money for their (supposed) stake.
Dirk:
Thanks for the link. Do you have a link handy to your previous post? It's not linked in the blog post, and zacks search function doesn't seem to sort by date...
So. Now that we've decided this is an amusement park what are the rides? We've already got:
The Doom Loop.
The Employment Plunge.
The Cash Flume to Wall Street.
Whack-A-Taxpayer.
The Haunted Vault.
Ghost Houses.
Over-leveraged Teeter-totter.
Bobbing for Loopholes.
Pony Rides for everyone.
Well, yes. Arresting the people who are making money off of inflicting crises would teach a valuable lesson. Hopefully, the really damaging behavior is also illegal. However, much of the most damaging behavior in the US was legal, at least at the time it was done.
Unions are dead? We have a union bought president and other politicians. Unions have blocks of voters that Corps don't. They both have money and influence. Both have corrupt among them. Seems more like the rest of America has no power any more.
Geeze, guys, you act as if this is some kind of a new game.........
.
"Ordinarily, any random spikes in credit would be quickly absorbed by the system—the pricing errors corrected, the half-baked investments liquidated, like a supple tree yielding to the wind and then returning. But when the government holds rates artificially low in order to feed ever higher capital investment in otherwise unsound, unsustainable businesses, it creates the conditions for a crash. Everyone looks smart for a while, but eventually the whole monstrosity collapses under its own weight through a credit contraction or, worse, a banking collapse."
Wake up! We already have de-facto nationalization of several banks and two large automakers. We just haven't paid the shareholders any money for their (supposed) stake.
Beg to differ- what we have done is nationalize the liabilities of the banks- the assets we have left behind. What shareholder value in Citibank? There wouldn't be any if it weren't for all the tax payer subsidies. I think your reading that the government has deprived investors of value has an Orwellian fantasy to it. What the government has done is provide value to well connected investors when they had none.
I find lately that I am overreacting, both in comments, and in real life, because of the amount of anger I am internalizing. I apologize to anyone I have ripped here. I really need to get focused and plan on what the hell I am going to do.
Why? Because this sucker may not be going down but steerage is already flooding.
Obama could have really put the screws to Wall Street
Like he did in '08 as a US Senator, when he voted for TARP? (Whilst GS was his greatest contributor)
I find lately that I am overreacting, both in comments, and in real life
.
....comments you can edit and/or apologize for.........real life means you are hopefully preparing - which is a good thing.
Do you guys realize our country is in like 4 different national emergencies right now?
(November 6, 2008) Section 202(d) of the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1622(d)) provides for the automatic termination of a national emergency unless, prior to the anniversary date of its declaration, the President publishes in the Federal Register and transmits to the Congress a notice stating that the emergency is to continue in effect beyond the anniversary date. In accordance with this provision, I have sent to the Federal Register for publication the enclosed notice, stating that the national emergency with respect to the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction that was declared in Executive Order 12938, as amended, is to continue in effect for 1 year beyond November 14, 2009.
(January 15, 2009) Section 202 (d ) of the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1622(d )) provides for the automatic termination of a national emergency unless, prior to the anniversary date of its declaration, the President publishes in the Federal Register and transmits to the Congress a notice stating that the emergency is to continue in effect beyond the anniversary date. In accordance with this provision, I have sent the enclosed notice to the Federal Register for publication, stating that the national emergency declared with respect to the Government of Cuba's destruction of two unarmed U.S.-registered civilian aircraft in international airspace north of Cuba on February 24, 1996, as amended and expanded on February 26, 2004, is to continue in effect beyond March 1, 2009.
(September 10, 2009) Section 202 (d ) of the National Emergencies Act , 50 U.S.C. 1622(d ), provides for the automatic termination of a national emergency unless, prior to the anniversary date of its declaration, the President publishes in the Federal Register and transmits to the Congress a notice stating that the emergency is to continue in effect beyond the anniversary date. Consistent with this provision, I have sent to the Federal Register the enclosed notice, stating that the emergency declared with respect to the terrorist attacks on the United States of September 11, 2001, is to continue for an additional year.
The terrorist threat that led to the declaration on September 14, 2001, of a national emergency continues. For this reason, I have determined that it is necessary to continue in effect after September 14, 2009, the national emergency with respect to the terrorist threat.
(June 24, 2009) Section 202 (d ) of the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1622(d )) provides for the automatic termination of a national emergency unless, prior to the anniversary date of its declaration, the President publishes in the Federal Register and transmits to the Congress a notice stating that the emergency is to continue in effect beyond the anniversary date. In accordance with this provision, I have sent to the Federal Register for publication the enclosed notice stating that the national emergency, declared in Executive Order 13466 of June 26, 2008, is to continue in effect beyond June 26, 2009.
The current existence and risk of the proliferation of weapons-usable fissile material on the Korean Peninsula constitute a continuing unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States. For these reasons, I have determined that it is necessary to continue the national emergency and maintain certain restrictions with respect to North Korea and North Korean nationals that would otherwise have been lifted in Proclamation 8271 of June 26, 2008.
(March 3, 2009) Section 202 (d ) of the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1622(d )) provides for the automatic termination of a national emergency unless, prior to the anniversary date of its declaration, the President publishes in the Federal Register and transmits to the Congress a notice stating that the emergency is to continue in effect beyond the anniversary date. In accordance with this provision, I have sent the enclosed notice to the Federal Register for publication, stating that the national emergency with respect to the actions and policies of certain members of the Government of Zimbabwe and other persons to undermine Zimbabwe's democratic processes or institutions is to continue in effect beyond March 6, 2009.
The crisis constituted by the actions and policies of certain members of the Government of Zimbabwe and other persons to undermine Zimbabwe's democratic processes or institutions has not been resolved. These actions and policies pose a continuing unusual and extraordinary threat to the foreign policy of the United States. For these reasons, I have determined that it is necessary to continue this national emergency and to maintain in force the sanctions to respond to this threat.
Okay there's more and more and more...
National emergency wrt Iran weapons
Government of Syria
Government of Sudan
Narcotics trafficers in Colombia
Separate one on people who committ, sponsor, or threaten to committ terrorist acts (like that stopped someone from shooting Allah Akbar as he wasted our military this week)
Lebanon and those who undermine the peace process.
Terrorists who disrupt Middle East government.
Why the hell do we have so many "national emergencies" !!!!!!!!!!
We just haven't paid the shareholders any money for their (supposed) stake.
so then why should the government have paid the shareholders for their stake. If there are no assets by definition there is no value to the shareholder stake>
... and I'm sorry but there's no other conclusion one can draw from a person shouting "Allah Ackbar" and fragging our military other than terrorism. I've seen enough Al Qaeda snuff videos to know that its nearly automatic for them to hit the button on the IED and then say "Allah Ackbar"... it's disgusting. I can buy the spinning of the story as a stressed out guy more if he wasn't shouting what nearly every damn terrorist shouts as they blow away American serviceman... but I guess no one else has bothered to watch any Al Qaeda snuff videos?
So. Now that we've decided this is an amusement park what are the rides?
We need one of those giant elevators that rises slowly, goes way up so you are above the whole park, then falls at breakneck speed and you're in freefall till the last few seconds when brakes kick in just in time to keep you from certain death, then a nice young person comes by and unlocks the bar to your seat and you get off the ride. No idea what to name it.
And we will need a midway with plenty of games, all rigged of course.
It is a pity that Mr. Mason did not continue and explain what the government should be doing in this insolvency problem. A very good article up to that point but stopping it there leaves one waiting for the other shoe. Thank you for providing the article.
and you're in freefall till the last few seconds when breaks keep you from certain death
Well, on this ride, you also get a 50% bounce-back up the elevator, before it crashes back down, through the concrete, and into the molten core of the planet.
Other than raising the IQ of the White House residents, there really hasn't been any.
bingo- I wonder when the rest of the people who voted for him will wake up. Never did understand the 26% of people who thought george Bush was doing a good job and understand the 56% who approve of Obama even less- unless it includes a bunch of Republicans who have figured out he is one of them in disguise.
For fellow liberals- requiring people to purchase health insurance and subsidizing those who can't with tax payer money but not having a well constructed public option (not subject to adverse selection) is GIANT GIFT to the insurance companies. It gives them a guaranteed market without having to any of the work an insurance company is required to do i.e underwriting. To believe that this constitutes taking on the insurance industry is just laughable. I am sure that the next job stimulus bill will be to require all Americans to purchase (otherwise the government will fine you) some kind of service from private well connected corporations. And that too will be described as "sticking it to them".
You know that stupid game with the mechanical arm, where they place high value stuff like a watch in the machine, then when you operate it, you think you're getting that gold watch, the end is in sight, and somehow magically the claw misses the watch and instead you get a doll?
The stock market is allowed to pretend that the shares are worth something; but the government knows better. The new CEO of Bank of America will be approved by government regulators and then presented to the "owners" of the bank. No doubt the stock price will go up. Don't be surprise if the new CEO of Rahm Emanuel and he handles job part time in addition to his other job.
I'm pretty sure that the first person who can will run afoul of the health care insurance bill and sue on grounds of unconstitutionality. Of course its unconstitutional to force people to carry health insurance! The health and general welfare clause has a limited meaning.
It will take a constitutional amendment to implement the health care plan.
Of course Constitutional lawyers around the country are sitting on their mouths as normal. The law profession should be the first shouting and screaming when Congress does something clearly out of Constitutional bounds... I can't understand why they are silent. I guess they are too busy putting green in their wallet to give a crap...
It's been a hypothesis of mine for some time that one of the reasons for priestly celibacy in the Latin Rite is because celibate men are not so easily intimidated
interesting concept. i always assumed it had more to do with the Holy See's aggrandizing of power from the dispersed dioceses. not sure celibacy wouldn't be such a bad thing in the current US political climate. it is amusing that the some individuals are assumed to have political birthrights (e.g. Bushes, Kennedys, Dodds, and now Joe Biden's son).
......I get so tired of "who thinks what" about Bush II, or McCain, or Obama, or Palin...........I hate to break it to you but it doesn't matter. That's why this last election was SO comfortable for me..........regardless what imbecile we elect, this ship is going down.....I might suggest we stop arguing over who has the prettiest marble in the box.......and more on gathering more marbles.
It would certainly produce some worldviews at odds with what passes for collective wisdom in the present mass cultural mythology. Unfortunately it's not practical for a large number of people. Political requirement for celibacy, now that would surely trim the fat, so to speak, and result in a lot more dull news days and a lot less revenue to certain "key" industries. And yes, "political birthrights"... sounds a lot like the ancestral monarchy - old habits never really die do they?
A document intended to emancipate people from the intolerable conditions of a government much like ours by granting them inalienable rights as free-willed, sovereign individuals.
“When you’re running a company, you do what you think is right for the stockholders. Right now I’m looking at this as a citizen.”
^yawn^
.
When he was on the inside and profiting, it suited him. Now that he is on the outside and seeing impact on his taxes and services as a citizen, he is against it. Again, it suited him. Is he willing to return a chunk of his compensation to the US Gov't as payment for being a part of creating TBTF? No?
.
^blah^
The Senate bill caps the tax at $1500 for families and $750 for individuals.
I think the bill dies in the Senate. Maybe that's why they are getting it through the House soon?
Is this process going to last another 6 months?
Anyone with a partisan bitch, why don't we just number the politicos and do an alpha for the issue, then you can save keystrokes and all the rest of us time - for example, BSR's last post could be a "3 - H" for Pelosi and healthcare...(maybe a "3C - H" for the current administration, if you want to whinge about Bush and Iraq, that is a "1P - I").
NervousRex (profile) wrote on Sat, 11/7/2009 - 11:00 am
Perhaps we can signal other civilizations, a flash of financial Hawking radiation?
We all saw this coming ahead of time. They will too.
But everyone who objects will be told, "do you want it to rain every day?"
This wasn't a crisis of bad policy, it was a crisis of bad policy cohort.
We have done "Don't vote incumbent" here with some success. The biggest outcome was the courts affirming they could consitutionally remove the "incumbent" indicator from the ballot. That measure had bipartisan across-the-board support, and therein lies the full description of the crisis.
Golden Parachute shows CEO's are in it for themselves not the stockholder. Boards are many times made up of the same thought. Tie a CEO's pay to the same reward as the stock holder dividend then it would be in the stockholders interest. Till then it is scam and salesmanship.
Bank of North Dakota Bank of North Dakota, located in Bismarck, ND, is the only state-owned bank in the nation. Its mission, established by legislative action in 1919, is to encourage and promote agriculture, commerce and industry in North Dakota. In this role, the Bank acts as a funding resource in partnership with other financial institutions, economic development groups and guaranty agencies.
hard to distinguish those objectives from the normal functions of government though.
the courts affirming they could consitutionally remove the "incumbent" indicator from the ballot. That measure had bipartisan across-the-board support, and therein lies the full description of the crisis.
I know you realize that if the voter doesn't know who the incumbent is, that's a big part of the problem anyway..
Try to put the pieces together. Big ground-up protests against banker bail-outs. Growing DOJ criminal focus on insider-trading by hedge funds, possibly leading to hundreds of indictments and guilty pleas, dozens of major funds shut down. Bigshots in the Bank of England talking about bank break-ups and doom loops. Treasury (reluctantly) says no to GS tax credit buy fraud.
You're seeing the pieces slowly assembling for breaking up the financial establishment, as we know it.
Things like this always start slow. But once they get rolling, they're unstoppable. Everybody wants to get on the break-up train. We're about one year away from the train reaching maximum velocity.
Meanwhile, the leveraged speculation will just shrivel up and go back in its shell, until the train stops. If the market truly is forward-looking, you'll see emerging markets, tech stocks and small-cap stocks tank, because leveraged speculation is all that's holding them up.
run afoul of the health care insurance bill and sue on grounds of unconstitutionality.
YSLP - I share your belief up to the point that forcing somebody to purchase something from a private company should be unconstitutional but I fear that it may not be. I don't have the same belief if there was option to purchase from government owned health insurance company. Unfortunately this is the kind of mess that we get into when (a) we define something as being right ( I use that word in its broadest sense) (b) but then insist it is part of the free market and should be handled by private companies.
Were I doing it- I would have first hard a vote whether health care was a right or just another traded good like tooth paste. If it was a right was it an absolute right or was it more akin to a social obligation like not having anybody die of starvation in the United States. Once the parameters have been defined then it is possible to work a solution. As it stands at the moment some people believe it an absolute right and everybody must access to the same health care , others (like me) believe it to be part of social compact and people should be provided some basic level of care but that doesn't translate into equality of service anymore than we have it in food or shelter or even in terms the criminal justice system. I suppose there are those who believe it that is just like any other traded good if you can't afford to go to Disney world too bad- I suspect there are more of these folks then will those will admit to that view they just hide behind words like socialized medicine.
These Don't Vote Incumbent, and Don't Vote for Anyone You've Heard of strategies baffle me.
In CA, we suffer from a legislature which which has partisanship, perpetual fundraising, AND term limits. This leads to even less knowledge of what they are voting on than before term limits.
If you kick out all incumbents indiscriminately, and vote for challengers indiscriminately, you will end up with a Congress which is more like the CA legislature.
Rob Dawg wrote:
DVI.
How about don't vote democrat or republican.
That's a long way from where we are now. The two party system isn't really as bad as we make out and I don't relish what would need to happen in order for it to fail enough to need replacing.
As a middle ground how about voting for real Democrats and real Republicans and not this current crop of professional corporatist politicians.
When he was on the inside and profiting, it suited him. Now that he is on the outside and seeing impact on his taxes and services as a citizen, he is against it. Again, it suited him. Is he willing to return a chunk of his compensation to the US Gov't as payment for being a part of creating TBTF? No?
Yagji- first he is being very honest which I haven't heard any other CEO do. Secondly, why are people mad at the CEO's . It is sort of like being mad at a shark. Once you accept that is normal behavior for CEO/shark then you can deal with it. It is our continued wearing of rose colored glasses that gets us into this mess. As I said earlier CEO will look after their interests first, the political party second, shareholders third, workers fourth and the community at large last if at all. Once we accept this then we can direct our fire where it should be directed at a political process that doesn't recognize that this is what the beast does.
some investor guy (profile) wrote on Sat, 11/7/2009 - 12:59 pm
If you kick out all incumbents indiscriminately, and vote for challengers indiscriminately, you will end up with a Congress which is more like the CA legislature.
And if you don't, you end up with the Japanese Diet. I'd rather have power rotation than lack of power rotation. Byzantium is not exactly a model of fine government and we have political machines and no term limits. We have great luck kicking judges off the bench. We'll stop throwing the bums out when they stop being bums. In the meantime, let power rotation reign.
you'll see emerging markets, tech stocks and small-cap stocks tank, because leveraged speculation is all that's holding them up.
I think you make a mistake by lumping all emerging markets in that group. I think some emerging markets while the may be sporting rich pricing are in fact supported by the fundamentals of their economies.
That is exactly right. We expect mothers to act in their childrens' best interests, not their neighbors', or the community at large, etc. Our Congressmen are the ones who should answer to us, the voters, and be held accountable for pursuing the general public's interest.
crazyv wrote:
I find Reed's comments perfectly honest. It is our mistake to believe that CEO's will act not act in manner that first protects their interests, then political party, then those of their shareholders, then their workers and finally the community at large.
I think you can extend Reed's comments and have it cover Congress too. I'm not exactly why you are willing to give some stakeholders in this process a pass while holding other stakeholders accountable. Congress is in the same boat as Reed, and if you aren't willing to blame one, then you shouldn't blame another. Reed's actions cost the U.S. Taxpayer money as investors even if they didn't invest in C. Reed isn't willing to pony up any of his gains from his actions now that the U.S. Taxpayer has been tapped via their representatives in Congress.
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Barney Frank isn't accountable to anyone aside from one district in MA. He doesn't have to care what anyone says anywhere else. Seems awfully similar to the CEO v. Shareholder argument. According to its voters, they like him and choose to keep him The same as Chris Dodd. This oogling of Capitalism and booing of Republicanism (As in Republican, not elephants) is getting long in the tooth. The problems are all interconnected and blaming one hand and forgiving the other--not even considering the body that they are attached--is simplistic and tiresome.
We ain't got no stinkin' 'doom loop' in the good ole U S of A.
last week Meet the Press:
"SEC'Y GEITHNER: The banking system is dramatically more stable than it was three months ago, six months ago, nine months ago, a year ago. Just remember, again, a year ago today, last year, you had for the first time in almost 75 years Americans start to wonder whether they should be taking their money out of banks. You had markets around the world come to a stop. Economic activity just stopped, came to a standstill, like flipping a switch. And right now you've had a dramatic improvement in confidence, you've had private capital come back into the system. And for large businesses, they can now borrow again and they can raise capital again, and that's very important. But small businesses, much more dependent on banks, they still face a really tough environment on the financing side, and we need to keep working to try to open up credit to them."
Tie the CEO pay to stockholder dividend. Great idea but because it is simple and workable and attain the deised results it will never happen. I remember the time when dividends were more than the interest rate you could get at the bank and it seems that the chairman B is making that happen again. Not by raising one but by lowering the other.
Congress is in the same boat as Reed, and if you aren't willing to blame one, then you shouldn't blame another.
Simple answer- I don't expect the likes of Reed when they are running corporations to protect my interests. In fact I would expect them to take advantage of me at every possible moment. In fact as a shareholder in the corporation I would demand it. (as an aside I am deeply opposed to corporate philanthropy- it is the shareholders money that they are giving away and the shareholder should be able to decide whom to give it to). On the other hand I expect Congress to protect the public interest. I don't expect them to contract it out - it is their job and they should be doing it.
Hey, is there a way to get in touch with someone who isn't online and you can't see a message by? I wanna drop a line to a fellow hoocoodanode user and don't want to peer through the archives trying to find a post by them. Does anyone know if this is possible?
Yagji- first he is being very honest which I haven't heard any other CEO do. Secondly, why are people mad at the CEO's . It is sort of like being mad at a shark.
Honesty without personal risk or personal commitment is moot. I'd prefer him to STFU instead of an 11th hour deathbed confessional. As for sharks, you could choose to avoid shark-infested waters and avoid shark attacks. In this case, the shark can attack you at work, at the gym, or in your bed. Once the shark moves out of its natural environment and into my natural environment seeking to bite off limbs, then it is fair game. Anything that enables the shark to move out of its natural environment and into my natural environment seeking to bite off limbs is fair game.
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Having earned my B.B.A., I know all about the parts and processes that got us here to where it is today. Saying CEOs should only worry about their own checkbook and then their shareholders second is simplistic and wrong. When their mea culpas come at the cost of 10+% UE, Public debt to GDP north of 50%, and tent cities, then their game is our game. They had their chance to prove the joys of Free Market Capitalism and they have shown us where it goes. Now, they see where it will go now.
Well, as one who would be pleased with the paycheck and in addition would loot the coffers of the US shamelessly if I had a chance; you can't blame Reid for the fact that the Congress voted for the bailout.
This is the one bright spot developing on the horizon. The meme is set:
The world's most powerful investment bank is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money.
This is a public relations nightmare on so many levels that it isn't even answerable so it just grows. When the disenfranchised hordes scream for revenge the politicians will have to choose between offering up the squid or sacrificing themselves and the squid. [Take my rhetorical flourishes as just that.]
That's a great point, Rob, and it's absolutely beautiful. They're paying millions of dollars for top-end PR resources, but there is absolutely no defence against a diffuse meme like this. Even if they could somehow villify Matt Taibbi by digging up dirt on him, it would be irrelevant. It's like a subprime image crisis, and there's no stimulus for that.
And yes, they do think they're very clever now and are enjoying broad back-room support on the hill, but it's transient. We often portray politicians as silly players who misunderstand issues and take back-room payoffs, but we should remember that many of them are as cold and calculating when it comes to voter relations as the is when it comes to investments. They'll cut the loose at the slightest hint that it has become a political liability exceeding the value of its campaign contributions.
In fact as a shareholder in the corporation I would demand it. (as an aside I am deeply opposed to corporate philanthropy- it is the shareholders money that they are giving away and the shareholder should be able to decide whom to give it to).
In sum, you are part of the problem.
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You want to maximize your returns, and if the game goes your way, it is the losers' fault. Guess what? haz u USDs, Hu has your jobs, and you are on HCN b^tching about it. Looks like you lost (along with everyone else here on HCN) It may be time to realize that not everyone will be capable of the American Dream (tm) because their rotation in the birthin' order puts them in a system that has effectively locked them out. There is no more Native American land to conquer and no where to run that will allow you the opportunity to be the head of that region's NWO. That god has died, and time to find religion elsewhere.
crazyv wrote:
On the other hand I expect Congress to protect the public interest. I don't expect them to contract it out - it is their job and they should be doing it.
Again, we--you included--are the loser, and until you can muster up 50%+1 in support of your cause, they are doing their job. Majority Rules--with respect towards Minority Dissent. It is just you cannot muster up enough vote for a shareholder revolt to put your interests back on top of the agenda, and you cannot easily sell your shares of USD Inc. and become a shareholder of CDN Inc. or some other entitiy.
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Is it so hard to accept that these two dynamics are more similar than different?
We have been hashing on the banks here for 4 years..nothings changed...words just get read, good thoughts just bleed, action is a slippery stairway to hope, whom will take the lead...
down with the pigmen!
side note-auto credit application numbers so far this month are anemic.....time to play in the bay....
Apologies if this was posted previously and I failed to see it:
By Huw Jones
ST ANDREWS, Scotland (Reuters) - World governments should consider urgently a levy on banks to fund future bailouts, British Prime Minister Gordon Brown said on Saturday, departing from London's longstanding resistance to a global tax.
France and Germany have led the way in Europe in seeking to force the financial sector to return some of the billions of public money plowed into banks over a year of crisis.
A global levy would be hard if not impossible without U.S. backing, a country traditionally hostile to new taxes. U.S. officials declined comment on Brown's proposal before a later news conference by U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner.
.....
In recent Congressional testimony, U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner was cool to an idea from a domestic regulator who called for big financial firms to pay risk-based assessments into a fund that would be available for use if they hit trouble.
Geithner opposed pre-funding bank bailouts on the basis that it make banks less wary of risk taking.
I prefer the 11th hour deathbed confessionals. It makes the resulting class-action lawsuits easier when they implicate themselves.
All it takes is Congress to pass a law to protect TBTF and then you are back at square one. Congress can do whatever Congress wants, and if you think passing laws to minimize lawsuits is unthinkable, you just need to look at "Tort Reform" for the healthcare industry and mix it in with TARP and there you go.
and the best way to defend yourself against a great white or tiger shark is to face it head on...they attack you from below and behind but when you confront them by facing them underwater they tend to veer off...they feed on vulnerability and weakness...they are not familiar with strength or willingness to fight....
we must fight them....going galt, protests and taking it to them with strategic defaults is confronting them head on....
All it takes is Congress to pass a law to protect TBTF and then you are back at square one.
Of course, but the more of these deathbed confessionals are made public, the less appetite there will be to pass any legislation that protects them judicially, in my mind.
It's much easier to protect these complex institutions when no one understands what the hell they even do--and it's impossible to explain to voters even if you do know--but when you have the former CEO of one of these banks apologizing for his involvement, that's all the great unwashed needs to hear.
If the boldface is accurate then why do Administration officials keep saying 'most economist think...'? TG rebuts himself in back to back sentences.
GREGORY: How high will unemployment go, do you think?
SEC'Y GEITHNER: Don't know for sure, but it's likely still rising and it, it probably going to rise further before it starts to come down again.
GREGORY: Double digits?
SEC'Y GEITHNER: Most economists think we'll probably get there, and--but again, the economists think--and, you know, there's a lot of uncertainty in this. Economists don't know that, don't know that much about the future, David. But they say that they think we'll start to see net jobs created at the beginning of the year, sometime around the beginning of the year, in the first quarter sometime.
we tried the experiment that we could run a system based on the assumption that all men/women would act not in their own interest but in the public good. It failed miserably.- because contrary to what human beings say the vast majority don't behave in that manner. The difference between you and me is I recognize that reality and expect people to behave venally and then go about figuring out how to protect myself you on the other hand are surprised when people don't behave in altruistic way.
Yes you are right nothing changes until you get to 50% plus 1 - but you can't get to 50% plus 1 until you recognize the problem. Letting Congressional critters get away with blaming CEO's and Insurance companies for screwing us lets them get off the hook. Lets not expect others to protect the public spaces.
All it takes is Congress to pass a law to protect TBTF and then you are back at square one. Congress can do whatever Congress wants, and if you think passing laws to minimize lawsuits, you just need to look at "Tort Reform" for the healthcare industry.
BOOM. I've come to the conclusion our govt is lawyers who write laws for lawyers and nothing more. (no offense Liz). The so called American Dream was hijacked, co-opted and sold. The reason why the same people stay in office is old and moldy...money. The laws they write are for their best interest and who pays for their interest. It goes into their warchests to buy endless TV time, etc. The American public isn't paying attention or brainwashed or both and this is counted on. Its in this same way that Boards of Directors stay intact despite shareholders votes to the contrary-if you don't like the rules, then change them, hide them and BOOM again we lose, they win.
Its taken me some years to come to the conclusion that what was in this nation is no more. We can all expect our lives and lifestyles to be reduced and any grain we eat taxed, doubled taxed and then taxed again to feed the monster which will end up in class warfare. I don't see anything other than a lot of pain ahead, if we are lucky, we'll avoid world war. If we aren't that lucky... then I expect the population to be dramatically reduced and great swaths of land rendered sterile.
We are becoming exactly the type of country that the founders of the US were trying to escape from. The quintessential difference is that there is no 'unexplored land' or area of the map where "There Be Dragons" toward which we can now set sail. Global capitalism has resulted in a global plantation.
Very convenient Judges are Lawyers also. The triangle of power is not close to even any more. Members are now Unions, Corps and the Government. The one who lost the game are the American public.
U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner was cool to an idea from a domestic regulator who called for big financial firms to pay risk-based assessments into a fund that would be available for use if they hit trouble.
Geithner opposed pre-funding bank bailouts on the basis that it make banks less wary of risk taking.
I am shocked
While the idea of tax makes sense - it seems to me it makes more sense to avoid the bailout in the first place. There is an easy way to do that- make it clear that anybody who comes seeking assistance from the government will be forced to give up 100% of the equity in the company and the government intervention will be senior to all debtors including depositors guaranteed by the FDIC. (b) require that the 10 highest paid people in the previous 7 years (plus the CEO , COO and CFO if they are not amongst that league) repay all incentive compensation and 50% of their base salaries received during that period.
Letting Congressional critters get away with blaming CEO's and Insurance companies for screwing us lets them get off the hook. Lets not expect others to protect the public spaces.
But if you can use the Congress to give your corporation use of those public spaces, then they destroy those spaces. You are letting the corporation off the hook in blame of the Congressional critters. Guess what? Fascism is what it is, and it is what we have. You have to blame both sides because they are the hands of that Fascist State. You don't have Fascism without both sides. Both parties are to blame so I'm saying blame both sides, and you want me to "forgive the Sharks, Lord, for they don't know what they do." To that end, I claim BS. Your corporations will play fair if properly regulated seems to avoid regulatory capture, and then you still want to play the political sharks for the problem and let the capitalistic sharks off the hook for biting off your arm. If I'm missing my dominate arm, I'm not sure the "why" will matter as I'm learning to function at a permanent disadvantage.
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Sorry, but your god is still dead. Fortunately, I'm sure your church spends your tithes for only what you believe in.
The quintessential difference is that there is no 'unexplored land' or area of the map where "There Be Dragons" toward which we can now set sail. Global capitalism has resulted in a global plantation.
Yep. Swing Lo'... Sweet Comm'tariat... Comin' round to carry me home...
I have a 100-to-1 letters against-to-for TARP anecdote that says you are wrong, but you aren't here so we'll try again later.
Oh I remember, yagij. Only, the last time they tried that voters still had skin in the game, in the way of retirement savings locked into the market.
I have a feeling that the next round will occur when most voters have lost virtually everything in the market. Instead of trying to pull themselves out, voters will be much more apt to grab onto the and pull it into the quicksand.
A man can dream, can't he?
EDIT: family crisis averted, so I grabbed lunch and snuck back down to the basement for a couple of minutes
Couple of new posts with plots up, updating the U-6 series and EMRATIO...the EMRATIO accelerating decline continues, if this is the peak month of the rate of change year over year, going by the last recession we will begin to see an increase in EMRATIO sometime around the end of 2013 to the beginning of 2014 (working with the 3 month moving average)...just sayin'
"we've come up with a ton of euphemisms here, but I dont think "doom loop" has been one of them. Am I wrong?"
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It's new to me, and all the more trenchant for coming from a managing director and the BoE. But calling it a euphemism prompt me to re-calibrate my doomiometer for more better bathyspheric boldness.
You got a BASEMENT!?! Damn my computer is out in the tool shed in the back yard.
I've got an insulated toolshed with electricity in the back yard, and don't think there haven't been days in which I debated throwing together a bunch of parts in an old case and setting it up out there. I even think my wifi would reach.
Mr Haldane, who was a key part of a Bank unit which was among the first to warn, well ahead of the crisis, of a dangerous gap between what banks had in their balance sheets and what they were lending customers, made the comments in a paper written with Piergiorgio Alessandri, published on Friday.
Anyone found a link to the paper refernced in the article?
volker -- The frustrating part is that we've been here before. is nothing new, merely the latest figurehead for the merchant bankers in a long and proud tradition of regulatory capture and indirect ownership of the means of production by financial speculators which has wrecked many previous national economies and will wreck many more.
yajig -- those levels only open up when we've learned to think past the level of genetic self-interest (the DNA tape-loop as Leary called it)... I'm not holding my breath. Until then, this is our event horizon.
I am waiting for the real estate guy to call back. He didn't have his token to access the MLS???? He is the duty attorney? WTF? Not expecting to be busy was he. We are going to look at the doomstead. It is off the doomloop
I've got an insulated toolshed with electricity in the back yard, and don't think there have been days in which I haven't debated throwing together a bunch of parts in an old case and setting it up out there. I even think my wifi would reach.
I must confess it is a nice toolshed. This is the view from the sliding glass door across from the 32" plasma screen.
Count me in on the tool shed contest. WiFi won't penetrate the metal siding. Got heat, 220v and cable TV last year AC sitting on the floor and I am considering increasing the size to24x30. I have a view of the valley and the city as well. Home away from Home.
Couch and leather chair, gigabit and 802.11n, granite countertops on the cherry cabinets and next month the loft gets a cot with the server farm in the base. LBD has me beat in size (12x28) but I have 110/220 and three phase 70 amp service. Here however HVAC consists of a a tiny foot warmer under the lab bench and a fan at the apex of the cathedral ceiling.
Couch and leather chair, gigabit and 802.11n, granite countertops on the cherry cabinets and next month the loft gets a cot with the server farm in the base.
I just evicted the squirrels from mine last week, so I'll have a ways to go to be able to compete at this level...
... and I'm sorry but there's no other conclusion one can draw from a person shouting "Allah Ackbar" and fragging our military other than terrorism.
Dude, how many Muslims do you know? I'm sitting in a cafe shop full of them and work with a couple hundred of them. They are great people. Better than bankers any day of the week. Please STFU.
BBC: Ft Hood mosque member defends shootings: "they were troops who were going to Afghanistan and Iraq to kill Muslims. I honestly have no pity for them."
Thanks to DB in the comment section who directs us to this post, which features a BBC interview by Gavin Lee with a member of the Killeen, Texas mosque outside Ft Hood, the Islamic Community Center of Greater Killeen, where Malik Nidal Hasan was currently attending.
In the interview (the whole interview can be heard here), mosque member "Duane" not only refuses to condemn Hasan, but justifies their murder because "they were troops who were going to Afghanistan and Iraq to kill Muslims".
Here's the relevant portion of the interview:
Duane : I'm not going to condemn him for what he did. I don't know why he did it. I will not, absolutely not, condemn him for what he had done though. If he had done it for selfish reasons I still will not condemn him. He's my brother in the end. I will never condemn him.
Gavin Lee : There might be a lot of people shocked to hear you say that.
Duane: Well, that's the way it is. I don't speak for the community here but me personally I will not condemn him.
Gavin Lee : What are your thoughts towards those that were victims in this?
Duane : They were, in the end, they were troops who were going to Afghanistan and Iraq to kill Muslims. I honestly have no pity for them. It's just like the majority of the people that will hear this, after five or six minutes they'll be shocked, after that they'll forget about them and go on their day.
Over at Biased BBC they wonder whether this is the same Duane Reasoner quoted today by the New York Times:
Duane Reasoner Jr., an 18-year-old substitute teacher whose parents worked at Fort Hood, said Major Hassan was told he would be sent to Afghanistan on Nov. 28, and he did not like it.
“He said he should quit the Army,” Mr. Reasoner said. “In the Koran, you’re not supposed to have alliances with Jews or Christian or others (from the Koran "take not the Jews and Christians as friends), and if you are killed in the military fighting against Muslims, you will go to hell.”
Saturday, November 7, 2009
NY Muslims: US Military Blood Will Spill in America!~Video
No surprise here, as the Muslims of NY based RevolutionMuslim.com, brag about the Islamic terrorist attack at Fort Hood. They do us one favor though, they explain how Islam justifies the Fort Hood attack.
no doom for me.
It will be recorded in the annals of this era that the shame was not in the disaster but in the complacency. I've said it before but history will judge this period as one of wasted opportunities.
"Doom loop" eh?...... they must read CR.
Simon Johnson back in May in The Quiet Coup The Atlantic Online | May 2009 | The Quiet Coup | Simon Johnson but banking industry and Obama admin apparently blew it off....
No thanks BoE, America refuses to face the pain and consequence, so we'll just paper over it.
For those interested in the overnight discussion of CalPERS I've put up a post on my blog preserving the links and my commentary so we can keep following the story. Exurban Nation: The CalPERS Crush Part 1
John Mason @ http://seekingalpha.com/article/171826-dear-fed-the-problem-is-solvency-not-liquidity?source=article_sb_picks
.....interesting as it goes on......
If only we have prevented banks from engaging in investment activities, Northern Rock would be in private hands today.
I've said it before but history will judge this period as one of wasted opportunities.
This is what really pissing me off.
Back in Feb/Mar, Obama could have really put the screws to Wall Street, and I don't think even the Republicans would have had the balls to say anything.
Now, unless we get back down to 600 on the SPX, he has no shot at reform. Zero. Zip. Nada.
I remember this was discussed as a "positive feedback loop" on this site about a year ago.
Eric wrote:
Just wait six months; you will be rewarded.
Eric wrote:
Agree. No Pain = No Change.
bonuses arent bonuses.like someone said all things (must) come to an end. dont think us can break the loop dont know about anyone else. and dont know if us is just going to milk it as long as they can might as well.
my opinion
Contrary to the song's lyrics, it CAN be too late to say you're sorry:
Nov. 6 (Bloomberg) -- John S. Reed, who helped engineer the merger that created Citigroup Inc., apologized for his role in building a company that has taken $45 billion in direct U.S. aid and said banks that big should be divided into separate parts.
“I’m sorry,” Reed, 70, said in an interview yesterday. “These are people I love and care about. You could imagine emotionally it’s not easy to see what’s happened.”
Congress’ overhaul of U.S. financial regulations should include ordering banks to hold more capital, ensuring executives’ compensation is aligned with long-term profitability and banning firms that take deposits from also engaging in equities and fixed-income trading, Reed said.
“I would compartmentalize the industry for the same reason you compartmentalize ships,” Reed said in the interview in his office on Park Avenue in New York. “If you have a leak, the leak doesn’t spread and sink the whole vessel. So generally speaking you’d have consumer banking separate from trading bonds and equity.”
Glass-Steagall Repeal
Lawmakers were wrong to repeal the Depression-era Glass- Steagall Act in 1999, Reed said. At the time, he supported overturn of the law, which required the separation of institutions that engaged in traditional customer banking services from those involved in capital markets.
“We learn from our mistakes,” said Reed, who wrote an Oct. 21 letter to the editor of the New York Times endorsing a division of banking activities. “When you’re running a company, you do what you think is right for the stockholders. Right now I’m looking at this as a citizen.”
Isn't Haldane a benzodiazepine derivative?
JimPortlandOR wrote:
Translation: All my senior preferred shares were wiped out and now I have to put whats left of my money in a bank and earn nothing on it like the rest of the great unwashed and I can't sell my 2.5 mil estate in CA. (I made all that up so I don't get sued).
I don't know why anyone is complaining. If you are dissatisfied with the quality and tenor of your governance in the area of bank reform just don't reelect Barney Frank in 2010. Oh wait. 310m people. 170m registered. 630k people in the 4th dist. 400k voters. 350k vote. More than 200k voted for him. Just remember this is the place where Gerrymandering was invented. There's no prying the tick off the dog. IMO the only solution is giving the dog a bath. In the upcoming primaries. DVI, Don't Vote Incumbent. This is in no way partisan, this is wide spectrum anti-parasite treatment. DVI.
REBear wrote:
Beyond the banking system, I'm pretty sure this is an apt description for the human experience in general.
the shame was not in the disaster but in the complacency
you see complacency, i see duplicity
but the doom loop is still in spin - standing waves
We're shoveling dollars into a liquidity trap of our own creation.
Perhaps we can signal other civilizations, a flash of financial Hawking radiation?
Rob Dawg wrote:
Depends who writes the future. I'm sure future
Annual Reports will highlight their cleverness and opportunism and ability to avoid enhanced regulation.
The way things are going, I will fly to Pakistan, find Osama, shave his beard, colour his hair (maybe purple), buy a decent suit for him, help out buying a nuke or two from Ruskies, fly together as gay couple to New York City together with nukes, rent apartment from 54th floor near Manhattan, set the timer ticking down from 24:00:00, say bye bye, rent a jet and fly to unknown destination, call my broker and tell him to short the hell out of every available stock and buy a helluva lot of gold. And tell my lawyers to meet me at Wall Street at XX:YY:ZZ
John Cole says "Whatever"
A near perfect and accurate Sat. AM rant about the banksters, Congress and us.
I hope he and all the others who contributed to this meltdown live long enough to see the full brunt of what they have wrought on their families and neighbors, and die of shame.
barfly wrote:
Who is 'he'? Did you have a particular amoral scumbag in mind?
the ex-Citibank guy who now sees this as a citizen -
noob goldberg wrote:
I think barfly was speaking of John Reid (ex-Citicorp) - from my comment posted from Bloomberg about Reid being 'sorry'.
Reid says he is sorry, a sorry ass seeking repentance after conspiracy to murdering the economy.
barfly wrote:
Oh, Reed. Gotcha.
I'd hold him accountable for setting up this mess, but I wouldn't put him in front of a wall wearing a blindfold. That fate should be saved for those who have taken this crisis and turned taxpayer fraud into a new business model.
"Not much has been done to reform the banking system despite warnings from BofE's King, former Fed Chairman Paul Volcker, BofE's Haldane and others."
Yeah, but real reform would mean Timmy's $1.5 million dollar home would become worth $500K, and Ben Bernanke's home would suffer the same fate, and Larry Summer's home, and ..... an entire baby boomer upper middle class generation that learned to rely on tiny savings and giant asset price inflation for their future prosperity would have to confront reality. Much better to pass that reality check onto someone else.
Posted this yesterday, and on the previous
thread, for those of you who are interested in my take on the employment numbers, fairly extensive:
Weak Employment Report
More on Unemployment Duration
noob goldberg wrote:
This is the one bright spot developing on the horizon. The meme is set:
This is a public relations nightmare on so many levels that it isn't even answerable so it just grows. When the disenfranchised hordes scream for revenge the politicians will have to choose between offering up the squid or sacrificing themselves and the squid. [Take my rhetorical flourishes as just that.]
it was CEO's obligations to their shareholders that causes the great outflow of jobs to foreign shores in the first place. Profits above people.
oops for some reason the links didnt work
Weak Employment Report
More on Unemployment Duration
The US economy needs 8-10 million new high paying/high benefit/low skilled jobs by Christmas or we start the next major leg down.
BOOM....
"the ex-Citibank guy who now sees this as a citizen"
Like ex-gentlemen during certain Revolution? Those French peasants did not exactly buy that either.
my sentiments exactly- vote for the third party candidate no matter how kooky
It's been nearly a century since Asquith dismissed another Haldane on brioche grounds. Hope this one fares better.
Yawn. Wake me up when Reid offers restitution and testimony. Until then it is an attempt to distance himself from his coconspirators.
Thanks for the links Dirk, and congrats to your Yankees.
Rob Dawg wrote:
Just imagine what would likely come to light if a smart and determined special prosecutor (think Patrick Fitzgerald) were appointed by the DOJ and Obama to get at the conspiracy that led Wall Street to lead us into abject failure.
Then pinch yourself to wake up to the reality that accountability (and prison) will never happen. Doesn't that make you feel better?
Papering over the problem the American way
Dawg, your point is well taken about how the chairpersons of the various commitees in congress are voted to positions of great power by relatively few folks. Not sure how that will ever change.
I find Reed's comments perfectly honest. It is our mistake to believe that CEO's will act not act in manner that first protects their interests, then political party, then those of their shareholders, then their workers and finally the community at large. We consider them evil when they act like that rather in the inverse. It seems to me this is no different than defense lawyers- they are not going to act in the interests of fairness or justice- their job is to get their client off regardless of whether he is innocent or guilty. IMO are legal system is better off for it. I believe the same is true of CEO- we have to accept that there is an adversarial system at work. Once one does that the notion of "self regulation" clearly becomes absurd- equivalent to criminals self regulating themselves.
Calamari for EVERYONE! whoohoo!
(hey, I can dream)
REBear wrote:
Sadly we're going there.
Anyone else think a "Doom" article is bearish, even for CR?!?
Got
?
Neil
Well lets talk about health care and emissions so that banking and economy thing just goes away on it's own.
crazyv wrote:
That is exactly right. We expect mothers to act in their childrens' best interests, not their neighbors', or the community at large, etc. Our Congressmen are the ones who should answer to us, the voters, and be held accountable for pursuing the general public's interest. Key people like Barney Frank and Chris Dodd are the ones whose feet should be held to the fire. Are you writing them, visiting them, contributing to them or to their opponents?
neil wrote:
Didn't the Labor Department report double digit unemployment yesterday. "Doom loop" sounds like a fun roller-coaster ride in comparison.
pavel chichikov wrote on Sat, 11/7/2009 - 9:10am:
"It's been a hypothesis of mine for some time that one of the reasons for priestly celibacy in the Latin Rite is because celibate men are not so easily intimidated"
I wonder if that is part of the reason celibacy has become such a taboo in our present overstimulated and oversexed society, actually. Notwithstanding those hypocrites who obviously can't keep their vow, a number of folk have managed it successfully throughout history from saints to common people. I don't think that anyone who managed to successfully fight against one of the most powerful natural instincts we have would be easily intimidated by much of anything.
Ministry of Truth wrote:
A kiss from Mama Goldman has amazing healing powers, you know.
we have to accept that there is an adversarial system at work.
the inherent nature of capitalism, itself.The conflict between management and labor. The reason for Unions. So it isn't all a one-way street.
China Paper, Phosphate Harm U.S. Producers, ITC Says (Update1)
By Mark Drajem
Nov. 6 (Bloomberg) -- A U.S. trade commission ruled today that Chinese glossy paper and phosphates are harming domestic producers, escalating trade tensions ahead of President Barack Obama’s visit to China this month.
The rulings, which may lead to tariffs on the imports, were announced one day after the U.S. imposed preliminary duties of as much as 99 percent on certain Chinese steel-pipe imports. China called the pipe tariffs “discriminatory’’ and said it would start its own anti-dumping probe of American cars.
China Paper, Phosphate Harm U.S. Producers, ITC Says (Update1) - Bloomberg.com
Rajesh wrote:
rotfl
Oh, the economy is bad. But one thing that has amazed me about CR is the ability to write 'optimistically' even as the economy is going off the tracks.
Got
?
Neil
Are Doom Loops sorta like fruit loops but made from unicorn skittles?
energyecon wrote:
China launched a trade war under Clinton. We're only now responding? I don't like the potential consequences, but we cannot maintain this trade deficit any longer.
Domestic deflation and import inflation. I've said that for years. We've got to be near a tipping point. Right? (Ugh... extend and pretend)
Got
?
Neil
Tom Stone wrote:
We're not telling my daughter about the 'harvested' unicorns.
Suppose I gotta replace the mental image of some guy kicking a can down the road with a doom loop.
But the doom loop image is hadron collider like - wait a minute- where's the breaker panel?
alas
barfly wrote:
Management has finished their vendetta: Unions are dead. Incapabable of being a counterweight. Government has to vigorously take the role of public protector.
But it won't because it is owned by the biz interests.
Sorry, Ben Franklin. You and others gave us a Republic and we have proven we can't keep it.
"arrested" - Good word, I like it.
Are we on the road to nationalise the banks?
Are we on the road to nationalise the banks?
all we need is one "public option" bank. Just one.
Can someone explain why the House is in session today and when the last time the House was on session on Saturday to pass legislation?
Has anyone mentioned its because they are losing time to enact their agenda? The newsmedia reported they were in session on Saturday but there's no explanation why they can't vote on Monday...
no lets talk about really important things - health care and the future of the planet who needs those
Barley wrote:
Way too late. The FIRE tumor has metastacized, and is inoperable. A morphine drip has been inserted in the nation's body as it waits the end. The stench of death is in the air.
The administration will soon bring to Congress a request for an additional $50 billion for war. I can tell you, a Democratic version of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is no more acceptable than a Republican version of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Trillions for war, for Wall Street, billions for insurance companies. When we were promised change, we weren't thinking it meant we give a dollar and get back 2 cents.
Kucinich, yesterday...
Barley wrote:
U.S government tells Ken Lewis to retire and to not take salary and bonuses for this year.
U.S. government directs Citibank board members to resign and sell Phibro to "reduce risk".
Wake up! We already have de-facto nationalization of several banks and two large automakers. We just haven't paid the shareholders any money for their (supposed) stake.
Dirk van Dijk wrote:
Dirk:
Thanks for the link. Do you have a link handy to your previous post? It's not linked in the blog post, and zacks search function doesn't seem to sort by date...
So. Now that we've decided this is an amusement park what are the rides? We've already got:
The Doom Loop.
The Employment Plunge.
The Cash Flume to Wall Street.
Whack-A-Taxpayer.
The Haunted Vault.
Ghost Houses.
Over-leveraged Teeter-totter.
Bobbing for Loopholes.
Pony Rides for everyone.
"inflicting crises on the public unless arrested"
Well, yes. Arresting the people who are making money off of inflicting crises would teach a valuable lesson. Hopefully, the really damaging behavior is also illegal. However, much of the most damaging behavior in the US was legal, at least at the time it was done.
Unions are dead? We have a union bought president and other politicians. Unions have blocks of voters that Corps don't. They both have money and influence. Both have corrupt among them. Seems more like the rest of America has no power any more.
Geeze, guys, you act as if this is some kind of a new game.........
.
Mark Spitznagel: The Man Who Predicted the Depression - WSJ.com
Barley wrote:
My word for the day is organoponicos
Unions aren't dead. They've merely been corporatized.
Rajesh wrote:
Beg to differ- what we have done is nationalize the liabilities of the banks- the assets we have left behind. What shareholder value in Citibank? There wouldn't be any if it weren't for all the tax payer subsidies. I think your reading that the government has deprived investors of value has an Orwellian fantasy to it. What the government has done is provide value to well connected investors when they had none.
OT Health care plan
Is there a income limit for the deduciton?
2.5% up to what number?
crazyv wrote:
We are talking about CitiBank and Bank of America: there are no assets. Look up the word Insolvent or bankrupt.
Tom Stone............Thanks for the note on Old Education Loans.......it was appreciated.
crazyv wrote:
Exactly, as these are the same people, who go seamlessly between the corporations and the government.
I find lately that I am overreacting, both in comments, and in real life, because of the amount of anger I am internalizing. I apologize to anyone I have ripped here. I really need to get focused and plan on what the hell I am going to do.
Why? Because this sucker may not be going down but steerage is already flooding.
kcoop, can't access hoocoodanode.org unless I go through CR's site.
Eric wrote:
Serenity now...
nova wrote:
Do you guys realize our country is in like 4 different national emergencies right now?
(November 6, 2008)
Section 202(d) of the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1622(d)) provides for the automatic termination of a national emergency unless, prior to the anniversary date of its declaration, the President publishes in the Federal Register and transmits to the Congress a notice stating that the emergency is to continue in effect beyond the anniversary date. In accordance with this provision, I have sent to the Federal Register for publication the enclosed notice, stating that the national emergency with respect to the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction that was declared in Executive Order 12938, as amended, is to continue in effect for 1 year beyond November 14, 2009.
(January 15, 2009)
Section 202 (d ) of the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1622(d )) provides for the automatic termination of a national emergency unless, prior to the anniversary date of its declaration, the President publishes in the Federal Register and transmits to the Congress a notice stating that the emergency is to continue in effect beyond the anniversary date. In accordance with this provision, I have sent the enclosed notice to the Federal Register for publication, stating that the national emergency declared with respect to the Government of Cuba's destruction of two unarmed U.S.-registered civilian aircraft in international airspace north of Cuba on February 24, 1996, as amended and expanded on February 26, 2004, is to continue in effect beyond March 1, 2009.
(September 10, 2009)
Section 202 (d ) of the National Emergencies Act , 50 U.S.C. 1622(d ), provides for the automatic termination of a national emergency unless, prior to the anniversary date of its declaration, the President publishes in the Federal Register and transmits to the Congress a notice stating that the emergency is to continue in effect beyond the anniversary date. Consistent with this provision, I have sent to the Federal Register the enclosed notice, stating that the emergency declared with respect to the terrorist attacks on the United States of September 11, 2001, is to continue for an additional year.
The terrorist threat that led to the declaration on September 14, 2001, of a national emergency continues. For this reason, I have determined that it is necessary to continue in effect after September 14, 2009, the national emergency with respect to the terrorist threat.
(June 24, 2009)
Section 202 (d ) of the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1622(d )) provides for the automatic termination of a national emergency unless, prior to the anniversary date of its declaration, the President publishes in the Federal Register and transmits to the Congress a notice stating that the emergency is to continue in effect beyond the anniversary date. In accordance with this provision, I have sent to the Federal Register for publication the enclosed notice stating that the national emergency, declared in Executive Order 13466 of June 26, 2008, is to continue in effect beyond June 26, 2009.
The current existence and risk of the proliferation of weapons-usable fissile material on the Korean Peninsula constitute a continuing unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States. For these reasons, I have determined that it is necessary to continue the national emergency and maintain certain restrictions with respect to North Korea and North Korean nationals that would otherwise have been lifted in Proclamation 8271 of June 26, 2008.
(March 3, 2009)
Section 202 (d ) of the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1622(d )) provides for the automatic termination of a national emergency unless, prior to the anniversary date of its declaration, the President publishes in the Federal Register and transmits to the Congress a notice stating that the emergency is to continue in effect beyond the anniversary date. In accordance with this provision, I have sent the enclosed notice to the Federal Register for publication, stating that the national emergency with respect to the actions and policies of certain members of the Government of Zimbabwe and other persons to undermine Zimbabwe's democratic processes or institutions is to continue in effect beyond March 6, 2009.
The crisis constituted by the actions and policies of certain members of the Government of Zimbabwe and other persons to undermine Zimbabwe's democratic processes or institutions has not been resolved. These actions and policies pose a continuing unusual and extraordinary threat to the foreign policy of the United States. For these reasons, I have determined that it is necessary to continue this national emergency and to maintain in force the sanctions to respond to this threat.
Okay there's more and more and more...
Why the hell do we have so many "national emergencies" !!!!!!!!!!
We just haven't paid the shareholders any money for their (supposed) stake.
so then why should the government have paid the shareholders for their stake. If there are no assets by definition there is no value to the shareholder stake>
Like he did in '08 as a US Senator
Obama has really been a huge disappointment on many levels.
Not that I bought everything hook-line-and-sinker, but I was hoping for just a little bit of change.
Other than raising the IQ of the White House residents, there really hasn't been any.
... and I'm sorry but there's no other conclusion one can draw from a person shouting "Allah Ackbar" and fragging our military other than terrorism. I've seen enough Al Qaeda snuff videos to know that its nearly automatic for them to hit the button on the IED and then say "Allah Ackbar"... it's disgusting. I can buy the spinning of the story as a stressed out guy more if he wasn't shouting what nearly every damn terrorist shouts as they blow away American serviceman... but I guess no one else has bothered to watch any Al Qaeda snuff videos?
So. Now that we've decided this is an amusement park what are the rides?
We need one of those giant elevators that rises slowly, goes way up so you are above the whole park, then falls at breakneck speed and you're in freefall till the last few seconds when brakes kick in just in time to keep you from certain death, then a nice young person comes by and unlocks the bar to your seat and you get off the ride. No idea what to name it.
And we will need a midway with plenty of games, all rigged of course.
It is a pity that Mr. Mason did not continue and explain what the government should be doing in this insolvency problem. A very good article up to that point but stopping it there leaves one waiting for the other shoe. Thank you for providing the article.
You might say there was a Major assimilation problem in Ft. Hood.
and you're in freefall till the last few seconds when breaks keep you from certain death
Well, on this ride, you also get a 50% bounce-back up the elevator, before it crashes back down, through the concrete, and into the molten core of the planet.
ResistanceIsFeudal wrote:
the stuffed ponies are adorable.
Black Star Ranch wrote:
Mises +1
WSJ publishing an article on Mises +2
BSR linking to an article in the WSJ about Mises +3
Eric - I like it! We can bill that as "A true once-in-a-lifetime experience you will never forget."
Eric wrote:
bingo- I wonder when the rest of the people who voted for him will wake up. Never did understand the 26% of people who thought george Bush was doing a good job and understand the 56% who approve of Obama even less- unless it includes a bunch of Republicans who have figured out he is one of them in disguise.
For fellow liberals- requiring people to purchase health insurance and subsidizing those who can't with tax payer money but not having a well constructed public option (not subject to adverse selection) is GIANT GIFT to the insurance companies. It gives them a guaranteed market without having to any of the work an insurance company is required to do i.e underwriting. To believe that this constitutes taking on the insurance industry is just laughable. I am sure that the next job stimulus bill will be to require all Americans to purchase (otherwise the government will fine you) some kind of service from private well connected corporations. And that too will be described as "sticking it to them".
I thought Doom Loop was a road in Death Valley
You know that stupid game with the mechanical arm, where they place high value stuff like a
watch in the machine, then when you operate it, you think you're getting that gold watch, the end is in sight, and somehow magically the claw misses the watch and instead you get a 
doll?
We'll call it "Retirement".
The Big Picture Case Shiller roller coaster
Uh, you know that gold watch? It's a "Rollex" and the gilt rubs off.
crazyv wrote:
The stock market is allowed to pretend that the shares are worth something; but the government knows better. The new CEO of Bank of America will be approved by government regulators and then presented to the "owners" of the bank. No doubt the stock price will go up. Don't be surprise if the new CEO of Rahm Emanuel and he handles job part time in addition to his other job.
Or how about Spitzer? He certainly would have the right attitude.
Raj- pay them for what? Everything the gov't bought was broke!!!
We should have given the bondholders a haircut too.
Maybe parking cash in short term treasuries is not such a bad idea, after all, everything else will be supported by them soon, in one way or another.
Too much leverage in the economy is being dealt with the old fashioned way, by default.
The only real question is how many other countries are going to stay tied to us and follow us into the abyss?
Or, to restate the question, when does Asia decouple and let us fall?
I would love to be in the private meetings surrounding the junket to China- some interesting questions and concepts are going to be floated.
That treasury meeting still has me concerned- too many idiot wunderkind with crackberries trying to keep the system from failing.
Now, let us ask the question- who is going to provide liquidity to our markets if HFQ is dead?
Next question after that one, what happens if we get a disorderly devaluation of our currency?
Black swans are the real threat right now, but is the system too fragile to take another large impact?
These riddles, wrapped up in the enigma of our Great Recession, will be answered, and at least one of them will make us tremble and shake.
Someday this war's gonna end...
I'm pretty sure that the first person who can will run afoul of the health care insurance bill and sue on grounds of unconstitutionality. Of course its unconstitutional to force people to carry health insurance! The health and general welfare clause has a limited meaning.
It will take a constitutional amendment to implement the health care plan.
Of course Constitutional lawyers around the country are sitting on their mouths as normal. The law profession should be the first shouting and screaming when Congress does something clearly out of Constitutional bounds... I can't understand why they are silent. I guess they are too busy putting green in their wallet to give a crap...
sdtfs - Well, the true
Gold Men have no use for gilt.
the glod watch at retirement was gone a couple of decades ago.
now, 'let them eat cake' is the go-away.
retirement parties at work are the stupidist embodiment of faux happiness and concern - and they are unbearable to any sentient being.
It's been a hypothesis of mine for some time that one of the reasons for priestly celibacy in the Latin Rite is because celibate men are not so easily intimidated
interesting concept. i always assumed it had more to do with the Holy See's aggrandizing of power from the dispersed dioceses. not sure celibacy wouldn't be such a bad thing in the current US political climate. it is amusing that the some individuals are assumed to have political birthrights (e.g. Bushes, Kennedys, Dodds, and now Joe Biden's son).
......I get so tired of "who thinks what" about Bush II, or McCain, or Obama, or Palin...........I hate to break it to you but it doesn't matter. That's why this last election was SO comfortable for me..........regardless what imbecile we elect, this ship is going down.....I might suggest we stop arguing over who has the prettiest marble in the box.......and more on gathering more marbles.
I always heard it was "inheritance" issues; land, money, and power. Of course, they had those in full measure anyway.
The Dowevator.
always a favorite of mine,
FBI roundup: Nov. 6
Federal Bureau of Investigation - Top Local News
It would certainly produce some worldviews at odds with what passes for collective wisdom in the present mass cultural mythology. Unfortunately it's not practical for a large number of people. Political requirement for celibacy, now that would surely trim the fat, so to speak, and result in a lot more dull news days and a lot less revenue to certain "key" industries. And yes, "political birthrights"... sounds a lot like the ancestral monarchy - old habits never really die do they?
Hope you are watching the House debate the health care bill --
I agree with BSR and tj, it ain't Black Swans; it's the chickens coming home to roost.
The law profession should be the first shouting and screaming when Congress does something clearly out of Constitutional bounds...
What's this Constitution thingie?
A document intended to emancipate people from the intolerable conditions of a government much like ours by granting them inalienable rights as free-willed, sovereign individuals.
The bill I saw just has 2.5% and the section which has the maximum seems to be blank?
I thought Pelosi had promised to put the final bill on-line for 72-hours before they were to vote on it?
.....Naw.........why read it .....just a bunch of uncrossed T's, undotted I's, and big long (fill in here) blank line spaces.....
JimPortlandOR wrote:
^yawn^
.
When he was on the inside and profiting, it suited him. Now that he is on the outside and seeing impact on his taxes and services as a citizen, he is against it. Again, it suited him. Is he willing to return a chunk of his compensation to the US Gov't as payment for being a part of creating TBTF? No?
.
^blah^
The Senate bill caps the tax at $1500 for families and $750 for individuals.
I think the bill dies in the Senate. Maybe that's why they are getting it through the House soon?
Is this process going to last another 6 months?
barfly wrote:
Fannie, Freddie, Citi... take your pick.
Anyone with a partisan bitch, why don't we just number the politicos and do an alpha for the issue, then you can save keystrokes and all the rest of us time - for example, BSR's last post could be a "3 - H" for Pelosi and healthcare...(maybe a "3C - H" for the current administration, if you want to whinge about Bush and Iraq, that is a "1P - I").
NervousRex (profile) wrote on Sat, 11/7/2009 - 11:00 am
Perhaps we can signal other civilizations, a flash of financial Hawking radiation?
We all saw this coming ahead of time. They will too.
But everyone who objects will be told, "do you want it to rain every day?"
This wasn't a crisis of bad policy, it was a crisis of bad policy cohort.
We have done "Don't vote incumbent" here with some success. The biggest outcome was the courts affirming they could consitutionally remove the "incumbent" indicator from the ballot. That measure had bipartisan across-the-board support, and therein lies the full description of the crisis.
Golden Parachute shows CEO's are in it for themselves not the stockholder. Boards are many times made up of the same thought. Tie a CEO's pay to the same reward as the stock holder dividend then it would be in the stockholders interest. Till then it is scam and salesmanship.
Byzantine_Ruins wrote:
How about "Don't Vote For Anyone You've Heard Of" (DVFAYHO)
Rajesh wrote:
Then even less people would vote.
all we need is one "public option" bank. Just one
Bank of North Dakota
Bank of North Dakota, located in Bismarck, ND, is the only state-owned bank in the nation. Its mission, established by legislative action in 1919, is to encourage and promote agriculture, commerce and industry in North Dakota. In this role, the Bank acts as a funding resource in partnership with other financial institutions, economic development groups and guaranty agencies.
hard to distinguish those objectives from the normal functions of government though.
I know you realize that if the voter doesn't know who the incumbent is, that's a big part of the problem anyway..
For the record please note that I suggested DVI in the primaries and said nothing about the general election.
Rob Dawg wrote:
How about don't vote democrat or republican.
Doom loops. I love it. Sounds like some sort of piercing.
rsj wrote:
Anybody posting a jpg goes on my ignore list.
Try to put the pieces together. Big ground-up protests against banker bail-outs. Growing DOJ criminal focus on insider-trading by hedge funds, possibly leading to hundreds of indictments and guilty pleas, dozens of major funds shut down. Bigshots in the Bank of England talking about bank break-ups and doom loops. Treasury (reluctantly) says no to GS tax credit buy fraud.
You're seeing the pieces slowly assembling for breaking up the financial establishment, as we know it.
Things like this always start slow. But once they get rolling, they're unstoppable. Everybody wants to get on the break-up train. We're about one year away from the train reaching maximum velocity.
Meanwhile, the leveraged speculation will just shrivel up and go back in its shell, until the train stops. If the market truly is forward-looking, you'll see emerging markets, tech stocks and small-cap stocks tank, because leveraged speculation is all that's holding them up.
Will some air go out of oil? Probably.
Will it go out of gold? I don't think so.
YLSP wrote:
YSLP - I share your belief up to the point that forcing somebody to purchase something from a private company should be unconstitutional but I fear that it may not be. I don't have the same belief if there was option to purchase from government owned health insurance company. Unfortunately this is the kind of mess that we get into when (a) we define something as being right ( I use that word in its broadest sense) (b) but then insist it is part of the free market and should be handled by private companies.
Were I doing it- I would have first hard a vote whether health care was a right or just another traded good like tooth paste. If it was a right was it an absolute right or was it more akin to a social obligation like not having anybody die of starvation in the United States. Once the parameters have been defined then it is possible to work a solution. As it stands at the moment some people believe it an absolute right and everybody must access to the same health care , others (like me) believe it to be part of social compact and people should be provided some basic level of care but that doesn't translate into equality of service anymore than we have it in food or shelter or even in terms the criminal justice system. I suppose there are those who believe it that is just like any other traded good if you can't afford to go to Disney world too bad- I suspect there are more of these folks then will those will admit to that view they just hide behind words like socialized medicine.
BTW- All you newbies, re-read rich's post.
That's the way to write a doomer post!
These Don't Vote Incumbent, and Don't Vote for Anyone You've Heard of strategies baffle me.
In CA, we suffer from a legislature which which has partisanship, perpetual fundraising, AND term limits. This leads to even less knowledge of what they are voting on than before term limits.
If you kick out all incumbents indiscriminately, and vote for challengers indiscriminately, you will end up with a Congress which is more like the CA legislature.
Pwnzi wrote:
That's a long way from where we are now. The two party system isn't really as bad as we make out and I don't relish what would need to happen in order for it to fail enough to need replacing.
As a middle ground how about voting for real Democrats and real Republicans and not this current crop of professional corporatist politicians.
yagij wrote:
Yagji- first he is being very honest which I haven't heard any other CEO do. Secondly, why are people mad at the CEO's . It is sort of like being mad at a shark. Once you accept that is normal behavior for CEO/shark then you can deal with it. It is our continued wearing of rose colored glasses that gets us into this mess. As I said earlier CEO will look after their interests first, the political party second, shareholders third, workers fourth and the community at large last if at all. Once we accept this then we can direct our fire where it should be directed at a political process that doesn't recognize that this is what the beast does.
some investor guy (profile) wrote on Sat, 11/7/2009 - 12:59 pm
If you kick out all incumbents indiscriminately, and vote for challengers indiscriminately, you will end up with a Congress which is more like the CA legislature.
And if you don't, you end up with the Japanese Diet. I'd rather have power rotation than lack of power rotation. Byzantium is not exactly a model of fine government and we have political machines and no term limits. We have great luck kicking judges off the bench. We'll stop throwing the bums out when they stop being bums. In the meantime, let power rotation reign.
rich wrote:
I think you make a mistake by lumping all emerging markets in that group. I think some emerging markets while the may be sporting rich pricing are in fact supported by the fundamentals of their economies.
patientrenter wrote:
crazyv wrote:
I think you can extend Reed's comments and have it cover Congress too. I'm not exactly why you are willing to give some stakeholders in this process a pass while holding other stakeholders accountable. Congress is in the same boat as Reed, and if you aren't willing to blame one, then you shouldn't blame another. Reed's actions cost the U.S. Taxpayer money as investors even if they didn't invest in C. Reed isn't willing to pony up any of his gains from his actions now that the U.S. Taxpayer has been tapped via their representatives in Congress.
.
Barney Frank isn't accountable to anyone aside from one district in MA. He doesn't have to care what anyone says anywhere else. Seems awfully similar to the CEO v. Shareholder argument. According to its voters, they like him and choose to keep him The same as Chris Dodd. This oogling of Capitalism and booing of Republicanism (As in Republican, not elephants) is getting long in the tooth. The problems are all interconnected and blaming one hand and forgiving the other--not even considering the body that they are attached--is simplistic and tiresome.
this vote will split along party lines, and pass. Interesting to watch, though.
C-SPAN Live Stream - C-SPAN
We ain't got no stinkin' 'doom loop' in the good ole U S of A.
last week Meet the Press:
"SEC'Y GEITHNER: The banking system is dramatically more stable than it was three months ago, six months ago, nine months ago, a year ago. Just remember, again, a year ago today, last year, you had for the first time in almost 75 years Americans start to wonder whether they should be taking their money out of banks. You had markets around the world come to a stop. Economic activity just stopped, came to a standstill, like flipping a switch. And right now you've had a dramatic improvement in confidence, you've had private capital come back into the system. And for large businesses, they can now borrow again and they can raise capital again, and that's very important. But small businesses, much more dependent on banks, they still face a really tough environment on the financing side, and we need to keep working to try to open up credit to them."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33562673/ns/meet_the_press//
Tie the CEO pay to stockholder dividend. Great idea but because it is simple and workable and attain the deised results it will never happen. I remember the time when dividends were more than the interest rate you could get at the bank and it seems that the chairman B is making that happen again. Not by raising one but by lowering the other.
yagij wrote:
Simple answer- I don't expect the likes of Reed when they are running corporations to protect my interests. In fact I would expect them to take advantage of me at every possible moment. In fact as a shareholder in the corporation I would demand it. (as an aside I am deeply opposed to corporate philanthropy- it is the shareholders money that they are giving away and the shareholder should be able to decide whom to give it to). On the other hand I expect Congress to protect the public interest. I don't expect them to contract it out - it is their job and they should be doing it.
Hey, is there a way to get in touch with someone who isn't online and you can't see a message by? I wanna drop a line to a fellow hoocoodanode user and don't want to peer through the archives trying to find a post by them. Does anyone know if this is possible?
crazyv wrote:
Honesty without personal risk or personal commitment is moot. I'd prefer him to STFU instead of an 11th hour deathbed confessional. As for sharks, you could choose to avoid shark-infested waters and avoid shark attacks. In this case, the shark can attack you at work, at the gym, or in your bed. Once the shark moves out of its natural environment and into my natural environment seeking to bite off limbs, then it is fair game. Anything that enables the shark to move out of its natural environment and into my natural environment seeking to bite off limbs is fair game.
.
Having earned my B.B.A., I know all about the parts and processes that got us here to where it is today. Saying CEOs should only worry about their own checkbook and then their shareholders second is simplistic and wrong. When their mea culpas come at the cost of 10+% UE, Public debt to GDP north of 50%, and tent cities, then their game is our game. They had their chance to prove the joys of Free Market Capitalism and they have shown us where it goes. Now, they see where it will go now.
Byz,
That is the route I have taken in the past - the feature would be a registered user directory - available to registered users only, natch
Well, as one who would be pleased with the paycheck and in addition would loot the coffers of the US shamelessly if I had a chance; you can't blame Reid for the fact that the Congress voted for the bailout.
Rob Dawg wrote:
That's a great point, Rob, and it's absolutely beautiful. They're paying millions of dollars for top-end PR resources, but there is absolutely no defence against a diffuse meme like this. Even if they could somehow villify Matt Taibbi by digging up dirt on him, it would be irrelevant. It's like a subprime image crisis, and there's no stimulus for that.
And yes, they do think they're very clever now and are enjoying broad back-room support on the hill, but it's transient. We often portray politicians as silly players who misunderstand issues and take back-room payoffs, but we should remember that many of them are as cold and calculating when it comes to voter relations as the
is when it comes to investments. They'll cut the 
loose at the slightest hint that it has become a political liability exceeding the value of its campaign contributions.
crazyv wrote:
In sum, you are part of the problem.
haz u USDs, Hu has your jobs, and you are on HCN b^tching about it. Looks like you lost (along with everyone else here on HCN) It may be time to realize that not everyone will be capable of the American Dream (tm) because their rotation in the birthin' order puts them in a system that has effectively locked them out. There is no more Native American land to conquer and no where to run that will allow you the opportunity to be the head of that region's NWO. That god has died, and time to find religion elsewhere.
.
You want to maximize your returns, and if the game goes your way, it is the losers' fault. Guess what?
crazyv wrote:
Again, we--you included--are the loser, and until you can muster up 50%+1 in support of your cause, they are doing their job. Majority Rules--with respect towards Minority Dissent. It is just you cannot muster up enough vote for a shareholder revolt to put your interests back on top of the agenda, and you cannot easily sell your shares of USD Inc. and become a shareholder of CDN Inc. or some other entitiy.
.
Is it so hard to accept that these two dynamics are more similar than different?
OT-ok just got in from Mavericks- 18-22 ft long period swell...Tow teams out but it looked to bumpy from storm that passed thru yesterday..
Mavericks Live Cam - Powered by the 2009/10 Mavericks Surf Contest
We have been hashing on the banks here for 4 years..nothings changed...words just get read, good thoughts just bleed, action is a slippery stairway to hope, whom will take the lead...
down with the pigmen!
side note-auto credit application numbers so far this month are anemic.....time to play in the bay....
cheers...
Byz,
It ain't so hard. Google ["user name" site:hoocoodanode.org] and you get right to a clickable user contact.
yagij wrote:
I prefer the 11th hour deathbed confessionals. It makes the resulting class-action lawsuits easier when they implicate themselves.
Apologies if this was posted previously and I failed to see it:
.....
.......
http://www.reuters.com/article/ousivMolt/idUSTRE5A60NF20091107
Nanoo-Nanoo wrote:
I really can't see how they can get any less wary than they are right now.
noob goldberg wrote:
All it takes is Congress to pass a law to protect TBTF and then you are back at square one. Congress can do whatever Congress wants, and if you think passing laws to minimize lawsuits is unthinkable, you just need to look at "Tort Reform" for the healthcare industry and mix it in with TARP and there you go.
nice Yagij! +10
and the best way to defend yourself against a great white or tiger shark is to face it head on...they attack you from below and behind but when you confront them by facing them underwater they tend to veer off...they feed on vulnerability and weakness...they are not familiar with strength or willingness to fight....
we must fight them....going galt, protests and taking it to them with strategic defaults is confronting them head on....
yagij wrote:
Of course, but the more of these deathbed confessionals are made public, the less appetite there will be to pass any legislation that protects them judicially, in my mind.
It's much easier to protect these complex institutions when no one understands what the hell they even do--and it's impossible to explain to voters even if you do know--but when you have the former CEO of one of these banks apologizing for his involvement, that's all the great unwashed needs to hear.
Oh oh, family duties calling, be back later...
From the same interview.
If the boldface is accurate then why do Administration officials keep saying 'most economist think...'? TG rebuts himself in back to back sentences.
GREGORY: How high will unemployment go, do you think?
SEC'Y GEITHNER: Don't know for sure, but it's likely still rising and it, it probably going to rise further before it starts to come down again.
GREGORY: Double digits?
SEC'Y GEITHNER: Most economists think we'll probably get there, and--but again, the economists think--and, you know, there's a lot of uncertainty in this. Economists don't know that, don't know that much about the future, David. But they say that they think we'll start to see net jobs created at the beginning of the year, sometime around the beginning of the year, in the first quarter sometime.
yagij wrote:
we tried the experiment that we could run a system based on the assumption that all men/women would act not in their own interest but in the public good. It failed miserably.- because contrary to what human beings say the vast majority don't behave in that manner. The difference between you and me is I recognize that reality and expect people to behave venally and then go about figuring out how to protect myself you on the other hand are surprised when people don't behave in altruistic way.
Yes you are right nothing changes until you get to 50% plus 1 - but you can't get to 50% plus 1 until you recognize the problem. Letting Congressional critters get away with blaming CEO's and Insurance companies for screwing us lets them get off the hook. Lets not expect others to protect the public spaces.
Thanks! How do you deal with
?
yagij wrote:
BOOM. I've come to the conclusion our govt is lawyers who write laws for lawyers and nothing more. (no offense Liz). The so called American Dream was hijacked, co-opted and sold. The reason why the same people stay in office is old and moldy...money. The laws they write are for their best interest and who pays for their interest. It goes into their warchests to buy endless TV time, etc. The American public isn't paying attention or brainwashed or both and this is counted on. Its in this same way that Boards of Directors stay intact despite shareholders votes to the contrary-if you don't like the rules, then change them, hide them and BOOM again we lose, they win.
Its taken me some years to come to the conclusion that what was in this nation is no more. We can all expect our lives and lifestyles to be reduced and any grain we eat taxed, doubled taxed and then taxed again to feed the monster which will end up in class warfare. I don't see anything other than a lot of pain ahead, if we are lucky, we'll avoid world war. If we aren't that lucky... then I expect the population to be dramatically reduced and great swaths of land rendered sterile.
we've come up with a ton of euphemisms here, but I dont think "doom loop" has been one of them. Am I wrong?
We are becoming exactly the type of country that the founders of the US were trying to escape from. The quintessential difference is that there is no 'unexplored land' or area of the map where "There Be Dragons" toward which we can now set sail. Global capitalism has resulted in a global plantation.
noob goldberg wrote:
I have a 100-to-1 letters against-to-for TARP anecdote that says you are wrong, but you aren't here so we'll try again later.
Very convenient Judges are Lawyers also. The triangle of power is not close to even any more. Members are now Unions, Corps and the Government. The one who lost the game are the American public.
Nanoo-Nanoo wrote:
Geithner opposed pre-funding bank bailouts on the basis that it make banks less wary of risk taking.
I am shocked
While the idea of tax makes sense - it seems to me it makes more sense to avoid the bailout in the first place. There is an easy way to do that- make it clear that anybody who comes seeking assistance from the government will be forced to give up 100% of the equity in the company and the government intervention will be senior to all debtors including depositors guaranteed by the FDIC. (b) require that the 10 highest paid people in the previous 7 years (plus the CEO , COO and CFO if they are not amongst that league) repay all incentive compensation and 50% of their base salaries received during that period.
crazyv wrote:
Killjoy, then banking and commerce gets boring again, utilitarian and takes all the fun out of being a smart, amoral scumbag.
crazyv wrote:
But if you can use the Congress to give your corporation use of those public spaces, then they destroy those spaces. You are letting the corporation off the hook in blame of the Congressional critters. Guess what? Fascism is what it is, and it is what we have. You have to blame both sides because they are the hands of that Fascist State. You don't have Fascism without both sides. Both parties are to blame so I'm saying blame both sides, and you want me to "forgive the Sharks, Lord, for they don't know what they do." To that end, I claim BS. Your corporations will play fair if properly regulated seems to avoid regulatory capture, and then you still want to play the political sharks for the problem and let the capitalistic sharks off the hook for biting off your arm. If I'm missing my dominate arm, I'm not sure the "why" will matter as I'm learning to function at a permanent disadvantage.
.
Sorry, but your god is still dead. Fortunately, I'm sure your church spends your tithes for only what you believe in.
ResistanceIsFeudal wrote:
Yep. Swing Lo'... Sweet Comm'tariat... Comin' round to carry me home...
yagij wrote:
Oh I remember, yagij. Only, the last time they tried that voters still had skin in the game, in the way of retirement savings locked into the market.
I have a feeling that the next round will occur when most voters have lost virtually everything in the market. Instead of trying to pull themselves out, voters will be much more apt to grab onto the
and pull it into the quicksand.
A man can dream, can't he?
EDIT: family crisis averted, so I grabbed lunch and snuck back down to the basement for a couple of minutes
Endgame reached. Would you like to play again?
Suzi Sunshine goes back to attending to laundry, a task worthy of her level of competence. I don't multi-task very well anymore. ha.
noob goldberg wrote:
You got a BASEMENT!?! Damn my computer is out in the tool shed in the back yard.
Couple of new posts with plots up, updating the U-6 series and EMRATIO...the EMRATIO accelerating decline continues, if this is the peak month of the rate of change year over year, going by the last recession we will begin to see an increase in EMRATIO sometime around the end of 2013 to the beginning of 2014 (working with the 3 month moving average)...just sayin'
absent real reform, if not abandonment of the fial scheme, the situation will deteriorate
at some point choices will be eliminated and we will be left with no choice as to the end game
and it is a game to them, a junkie's game of insatiable greed
"we've come up with a ton of euphemisms here, but I dont think "doom loop" has been one of them. Am I wrong?"
.
It's new to me, and all the more trenchant for coming from a managing director and the BoE. But calling it a euphemism prompt me to re-calibrate my doomiometer for more better bathyspheric boldness.
Rob Dawg wrote:
I've got an insulated toolshed with electricity in the back yard, and don't think there haven't been days in which I debated throwing together a bunch of parts in an old case and setting it up out there. I even think my wifi would reach.
ResistanceIsFeudal wrote:
When does the Martian or Alpha Centauri level open up? As far as I can tell, it looks like I have to wait a little longer...
Anyone found a link to the paper refernced in the article?
volker -- The frustrating part is that we've been here before.
is nothing new, merely the latest figurehead for the merchant bankers in a long and proud tradition of regulatory capture and indirect ownership of the means of production by financial speculators which has wrecked many previous national economies and will wreck many more.
yajig -- those levels only open up when we've learned to think past the level of genetic self-interest (the DNA tape-loop as Leary called it)... I'm not holding my breath. Until then, this is our event horizon.
I am waiting for the real estate guy to call back. He didn't have his token to access the MLS???? He is the duty attorney? WTF? Not expecting to be busy was he. We are going to look at the doomstead. It is off the doomloop
noob goldberg wrote:
I must confess it is a nice toolshed. This is the view from the sliding glass door across from the 32" plasma screen.
This may be it (found in comments on Naked Capitalism):
BANKING ON THE STATE
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/speeches/2009/speech409.pdf
Rob Dawg wrote:
Uh yes, I'd best not build anything even approaching that level of coolness or my family would never see me again.
Nanoo-Nanoo wrote:
Where are the banks going to get trillions of dollars from?
will end up paying couple of dollars to fund future bailouts.
Dawg House is nice. You got a cot too?
EE-- bingo on doom loop: page 11.
Seems a pretty forthright paper, for a regulator. Going back to read and perchance, to sleep.
Count me in on the tool shed contest. WiFi won't penetrate the metal siding. Got heat, 220v and cable TV last year AC sitting on the floor and I am considering increasing the size to24x30. I have a view of the valley and the city as well. Home away from Home.
nova wrote:
Couch and leather chair, gigabit and 802.11n, granite countertops on the cherry cabinets and next month the loft gets a cot with the server farm in the base. LBD has me beat in size (12x28) but I have 110/220 and three phase 70 amp service. Here however HVAC consists of a a tiny foot warmer under the lab bench and a fan at the apex of the cathedral ceiling.
Rob Dawg wrote:
I just evicted the squirrels from mine last week, so I'll have a ways to go to be able to compete at this level...
YLSP wrote:
Dude, how many Muslims do you know? I'm sitting in a cafe shop full of them and work with a couple hundred of them. They are great people. Better than bankers any day of the week. Please STFU.
k thanks.
It is more and more apparent that Bernanke's legacy will be that he understood what he was doing and did it anyway.
BBC: Ft Hood mosque member defends shootings: "they were troops who were going to Afghanistan and Iraq to kill Muslims. I honestly have no pity for them."
Thanks to DB in the comment section who directs us to this post, which features a BBC interview by Gavin Lee with a member of the Killeen, Texas mosque outside Ft Hood, the Islamic Community Center of Greater Killeen, where Malik Nidal Hasan was currently attending.
In the interview (the whole interview can be heard here), mosque member "Duane" not only refuses to condemn Hasan, but justifies their murder because "they were troops who were going to Afghanistan and Iraq to kill Muslims".
Here's the relevant portion of the interview:
Duane : I'm not going to condemn him for what he did. I don't know why he did it. I will not, absolutely not, condemn him for what he had done though. If he had done it for selfish reasons I still will not condemn him. He's my brother in the end. I will never condemn him.
Gavin Lee : There might be a lot of people shocked to hear you say that.
Duane: Well, that's the way it is. I don't speak for the community here but me personally I will not condemn him.
Gavin Lee : What are your thoughts towards those that were victims in this?
Duane : They were, in the end, they were troops who were going to Afghanistan and Iraq to kill Muslims. I honestly have no pity for them. It's just like the majority of the people that will hear this, after five or six minutes they'll be shocked, after that they'll forget about them and go on their day.
Over at Biased BBC they wonder whether this is the same Duane Reasoner quoted today by the New York Times:
Duane Reasoner Jr., an 18-year-old substitute teacher whose parents worked at Fort Hood, said Major Hassan was told he would be sent to Afghanistan on Nov. 28, and he did not like it.
“He said he should quit the Army,” Mr. Reasoner said. “In the Koran, you’re not supposed to have alliances with Jews or Christian or others (from the Koran "take not the Jews and Christians as friends), and if you are killed in the military fighting against Muslims, you will go to hell.”
Saturday, November 7, 2009
NY Muslims: US Military Blood Will Spill in America!~Video
No surprise here, as the Muslims of NY based RevolutionMuslim.com, brag about the Islamic terrorist attack at Fort Hood. They do us one favor though, they explain how Islam justifies the Fort Hood attack.
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