The Feds are trying to manufacture Inflation as it is not easy to do. So in order to do so they must bring the un-employment number positive, as they are doing so in baby steps........one just has to scan Layoff-daily for the real numbers...case in point
British Airlines - Post Huge Loss , 5,000 Job Cuts by Year End
Leviton Manufacturing Co. Inc - 100
Duke University - 400 so Far, More to Come?
Hilliard Corporation - 30
Cooley Dickinson Hospital - 20 to 25
Daramic - 100
Ontario Legal Aid Program - Layoffs Coming
Brown Corporation - 264
Farley's & Sathers Candy Co - 175
Indiana Schools Warn of Funding Cuts - Layoffs Possible
ALSAC - 70
Southern Progress Corporation - More Layoffs Today
Wachovia Corp.'s North Charlotte Campus Day Care - 130
Blue Coat Systems - 20% of Staff
City of Grand Rapids - Layoffs to Be Announced
Quicksilver - 200
Corrections and Rehabilitation Department - Layoff Numbers
NetJets - 500
Day Pitney - 30
Seagoe Technologies ( International ) - 30
GM - Some Temporary Layoffs could Become Permanent
Mercks - Possible 16,000 Layoffs?
Merced County - 300 Buyouts / Early Retirement
Trinity Mirror ( International ) - 17 Editorial Jobs
Chevron ( Cook Inlet ) - 25
Real Networks - 4% of Workforce
Classmates - 71
Alabama State Agencies Laying off
Update: City of Elyria - Probably 15 Officers
City of Perris - Layoffs but How Many?
Neenah Common Council Approves City Teamsters Union Layoffs in 2010
City of Ukiah approved - 21 Layoffs
City of Henderson - Layoffs Likely
Schuyler County - 12 Layoffs Possible
Summit County - Plans 45 Layoffs Next Month
Washington Parish Sheriff's Office - 20
Sun Microsystems in Hillsboro - 42
Nordyne - 110
Sparta-Hancock County Library - Cutting Hours / Jobs ?
Jared Bernstein (?) on Bloomberg, he's the economic advisor to VP Biden. (Why does the VP need an economic advisor?) Anyway, he says things will get better quickly as the administration is presently creating OR SAVING 2.5 million jobs! So you see, help is on the way.....
Driving that train, high on loan pain,
Cagey B, you better watch your speed.
Trouble ahead, trouble behind,
And you know that notion just crossed my mind.
This old engine makes it on time,
Leaves Wall*Street Station 'bout at nine,
Hits PPT Junction at track number 2 so fine
At a quarter to three you know it's drivin' again.
Driving that train, high on loan pain,
Cagey B, you better watch your speed.
Trouble ahead, trouble behind,
And you know that notion just crossed my mind.
Trouble ahead, employment numbers in red,
Take my advice you'd be better off without debt.
Goldman's sweeping, train hundred and two is
On the wrong track and headed for you.
Driving that train, high on loan pain,
Cagey B, you better watch your speed.
Trouble ahead, you know, trouble behind,
And you know that notion just crossed my mind.
Trouble with you is the trouble with me,
Got two good eyes but we still don't see.
Come round the bend, you know it's the end,
The Dow Jones screams and the market just gleams...
Driving that train, high on loan pain,
Cagey B, you better watch your speed.
Trouble ahead, trouble behind,
And you know that notion just crossed my mind.
Driving that train, high on loan pain,
Cagey B, you better watch your speed.
Trouble ahead, trouble behind,
And you know that notion just crossed my mind.
Driving that train, high on loan pain,
Cagey B, you better watch your speed.
Trouble ahead, you know, trouble behind.
And you know that notion just crossed my mind.
Driving that train, high on loan pain,
Cagey B, you better watch your speed.
Trouble ahead, you know, trouble behind.
And you know that notion just crossed my mind.
No kidding, cinco. They saved my knee cap on the first day I used my new chainsaw.
The number of workers only able to find part time jobs (or have had their hours cut for economic reasons) is at a record 9.284 million.
Note: the U.S. population is significantly larger today (about 308 million) than in the early '80s (about 228 million) when the number of part time workers almost reached 7 million. Still - even adjusted for population - part time workers is at record levels.
80 million new job competitors in only 20 years (+/-)
If the young ones had any sense, they'd stop having kids, let the geezers die off, and be in the drivers' seat when the labor shortage took hold.
CR-" When the job market starts to recover, many of these people will reenter the workforce and look for employment - and that will keep the unemployment rate elevated for some time."
And what if this doesn't recover, and reality finally catches up with the illusion of continued expansion in a finite world? We are bumping against resources and environmental restraints right now.
i shop at walmart. walmart is my mom and pop store for heavens sakes
That wasn't a snark. I grew up in the country, and we always loved it when the "Wishbook" arrived. However, Walmart has now put up stores close to most of those small towns that once relied on the Sears catalog, so what was once a viable venture is no longer. Of course, that just speculation on my part, but I don't think it an entirely uneducated one-
PS: I use the local Walmart as well, since I still live in the country.
nova, I added a work warning.
But I know that none of the posters here are posting from work and therefore screwing their employer out of what they paid for.
CR-" When the job market starts to recover, many of these people will reenter the workforce and look for employment - and that will keep the unemployment rate elevated for some time."
To where? How many boomers cashed out the equity to start small biz's that otherwise never would have been funded? And never will be again?
Yes I am Cinco....thank you.....I am sure in some ways you can relate to the frustration....none the less its Friday....time to make some money and pics of the day.
The Los Angeles County district attorney's office announced Thursday that it will seek the death penalty for a 58-year-old Cal State Fresno professor who is accused of shooting and then dismembering with a rented chain saw a young male prostitute.
js123
thats what they wanted to do on one of the unemployment benefits thingies, i thought/think it should have been done,on both ue and homeowners credit but ....
where would all the corporate profits come from or the people to tend all those lawns in the middle of deserts. If there is political correctness at work it is not coming from the traditional bastions of PC but rather from the corporate and elites.
Long time lurker here but only now daring to comment That employment to population chart sure looks like altitude chart taken from the black box of a crashed plane. "What you mean pedals are not working?!"
...Remember, after Robert Rubin fought to end Glass-Steagall’s separation of investment and commercial banking, he didn’t go back to his old firm, Goldman Sachs, he went to work for the firm that benefited the most from the law’s demise, Citigroup.
But Goldman in many ways crystallizes all that is wrong with the financial bailout, started by the Bush Administration, but carried on and expanded by Obama’s. Goldman has been declared a bank, not much different than the old Bailey Building and Loan, and yet they don’t take deposits or offer checking accounts. So what do they do? They trade, and they are trading as a federally protected bank, meaning they get to borrow at cheaper rates and they are Too Big To Fail.
How anyone considering themselves to be a capitalist can support this arrangement is beyond me.
...
So after taking a -0.4% leg down last month, EMRATIO took a -0.3% leg down this month...and the seasonally adjusted U-6 is at 17.5%
.
credit card rates up and credit limits down...
Goldman has been declared a bank, not much different than the old Bailey Building and Loan, and yet they don’t take deposits or offer checking accounts. So what do they do? They trade, and they are trading as a federally protected bank, meaning they get to borrow at cheaper rates and they are Too Big To Fail.
How anyone considering themselves to be a capitalist can support this arrangement is beyond me.
It's interesting with Count Formaldehyde, in regards to the barbarous...
He's of Iranian heritage, but he never spent much time there, so he wouldn't have known about how the diaspora of wealth that happened as the Shah was going down in the late 70's.
There are about a million Persian-Americans in LA, some cute nicknames have arisen like "Tehrangles" or "Irangeles". Almost every last one of them came to our country 30 years ago or so. Many of them have done quite well in their adopted city, and almost all of them brought gold with them, in which to finance their new start in life.
The ones that didn't got to hang around Iran for a spell, or longer.
The retailers are going to be hammered this holiday season.
Yep. I follow the sales tax revenue for virginia and the latest month over month was down 6.6% (down 5.9% ytd). If Walmart and other big chains are able to keep sales flat or squeak out small gains for xmas it will come directly at the expense of small retailers.
And with over 8000 stores having already closed this year I don't trust any of the major chains reporting same store sales since the weakest stores have been weeded out.
Yesterday's report of hugely improved productivity was a sign that the unemployment rate was going to be high. Because employers are laying off many workers and making their remaining workers work their asses off for the same wages as before.
This is a hidden kind of wage deflation. Where people sometimes have to work twice as hard as before for the same wages in order to keep their jobs. While many other people remain unemployed and without much income.
There is no need to cut wages, when employers can make their workers work a lot harder and faster for the same wages as before. And employers can certainly do that when the unemployment rate is high.
If Obama-Pelosi enact their full agenda, double-digit unemployment will become a permanent feature in the US, just as in much of Europe. And that 99 weeks of unemployment benefits will become yet another ruinous entitlement program.
This is a time for somebody high enough up the food chain on Wall*Street, somebody with ethics and a strong sense of morals, to step up like Alan Grayson has, and ask the hard questions, but unfortunately, it appears that such a person doesn't actually exist.
...
Then there was the fact that during their moment of maximum vulnerability, the government let Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs become bank holding companies — something it had earlier refused to allow Lehman Brothers to do. In practical terms, it wasn’t all that big a deal; it primarily meant the two firms were going to be regulated by the Federal Reserve rather than the Securities and Exchange Commission.
But in psychological terms, coming at a time when Wall Street was openly questioning whether Morgan and Goldman would be able to survive the panic, it was huge. It meant that the Federal Reserve was standing by the two firms, and it helped calm the storm.
...
gasbag is just selling a book. Nothing more....or I suppose you forgot how he was used as the mouthpiece for MBI ( and the rest of the insurers) as they were constantly flirting with actually having to go under (what a thought!.. )
The wind blows in all directions.....his is now "firmly" in the retail book sales direction.
No, your thinking all wrong with cutting minimum wage. All you have to do is require all goods and services sold in the US to be manufactured in accordance to US safety and environmental guidelines, minimum wage, and govt health care.
I seen on the News ( Ya I know ) Last night that retailers will not be dropping prices because they will not be ordering new goods. This is Deflationary right? ( Crickets chirping )
10.2% UE simply being called a "psychological" headline! That's all. Traders have gotten over it, initial reaction down but nothing more..... All is well........
I don't deny he's just pumping his book. What I find intriguing is the subject matter he's chosen. I suppose we'll have to wait and see if it's an over-hyped fluff piece or if he's actually put some effort behind it and some yummy details within it.
Mike in Long Island wrote:
HomeGnome wrote:
Careful with the chainsaw, lefty.
One of these days...
...they'll call him righty?
Careful with that axe Eugene is a song from Pink Floyd as is One of These Days- I took HomeGnomes comment to be a take off on Careful with that axe... Sorry for the OT musings.
The only words are "One of these days I'm going to cut you into little pieces"
Unemployed people don't trade stocks in quantity. Higher unemployment means less money for people that don't matter and more money for people that do....
Look at the EMRATIO plot for a minute, folks - tell me, where is the peak from the latest "growth cycle"?
.
That's right, January 2007...so we are almost three years into job losses and they just accelerated into the teeth of the largest government spend since WWII (proportionatley)...
"shill (profile) wrote on Fri, 11/6/2009 - 8:09 am
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I seen on the News ( Ya I know ) Last night that retailers will not be dropping prices because they will not be ordering new goods. This is Deflationary right? ( Crickets chirping )"
not ordering new goods due to lack of demand in a 70% consumption based economy is inflationary?
I see what they are doing with the #'s........make the actual be worse up until the second quarter so that they "surprise" on that all important home stretch run into fall and the mid-terms. Exactly what the douche at GS did with the GDP numbers. Gotta produce a "beat" at some point.
I looked at the Railfax Weekly. I don't see any love there. I really think that Christmas will be the point when when it all starts to come in focus for many how things may not be as good as they have been portrayed.
OT, but China is demanding that the US revoke the 2004 ban on the sale of Chinese chicken exports here in this counrty with China citing the terms of their WTO membership. All this, after the deaths of so many in China, around the world, and pets in the US from melamine poisoning. Their chickens were fed melamine and they still have food shortages for their own people. Did they or have they purchased enough farmland in Africa and South America to ensure potential future significant increased supplies to export or what? Or do they want to start poisoning people again. It doesn't make sense unless they plan on purchasing or have been purchasing real, tangible assets in this country since, exluding US treasury purchases, that is required to enable a trade surplus.
I had a client when I was a private banker who was relative of the Shah of Iran also one of the sharpest risk managers. I was giving him the usual pitch about having a portion of his portfolio in gold. After listening politely he said - I have two questions "where is the gold held and in what form is it". To which I responded its in vault in Credit Suisse and in one kilo bars. To which his response was "two more questions- when the Russian run over Switzerland how do I get my gold and what exactly will I be able to buy with 1 kilo bars" He then went on to tell me how to do it right. Told me to find the smallest gold coins , place a 1/6 th of his investment in those coins in 6 safety deposit boxes around the world and send him the keys. Where upon he finished by saying if you are going to invest in gold that is the way you do it.
Disconnect between row and main street? The policies need to change and soon!
Pre-privatize Citi and BoA
Start lending to small business that will create jobs. Only way really millions of jobs can be created in short order. The other way is a large war effort.
"shill (profile) wrote on Fri, 11/6/2009 - 8:09 am
I seen on the News ( Ya I know ) Last night that retailers will not be dropping prices because they will not be ordering new goods. This is Deflationary right? ( Crickets chirping )"
not ordering new goods due to lack of demand in a 70% consumption based economy is inflationary?
I'm pretty sure the manufacturers aren't going to just sit there and say "well, since my usual retailers aren't going to buy my goods, I might as well just turn out the lights and wait for more orders".
I mean, many will make that decision because they don't have the cash to carry on, but many will simply try to find easier ways of reaching the customer and cutting out the retailer.
If my options are to cover 100% of my fixed costs and 50% of my variable costs by selling through some online retailer, or having to foot the bill for 100% of my fixed costs while I shut down production and wait for traditional retailers to order, what do you think my choice will be?
Look for some stellar deals through online retailers, would be my guess. Which would not be inflationary.
He then went on to tell me how to do it right. Told me to find the smallest gold coins , place a 1/6 th of his investment in those coins in 6 safety deposit boxes around the world and send him the keys. Where upon he finished by saying if you are going to invest in gold that is the way you do it.
I'm guessing that his grandmother like mine had said "don't put all your eggs in one basket" but perhaps the phrase is a little different there?
I imagine a lot of people thought that grandma's phrase was some silly old saying and didn't bother to think about it, and wonder if they even "got it" after losing big on their 80% position of total portfolio in their Enron/Worldcom/Lehman stock.
Minimum wage should be set by each state to reflect the true cost of living in that area. IIRC 28 states had a higher minimum wage then the FED before they raised it. Minimum wage law does cost jobs in some areas.
Just how will having no minimum wage alleviate our situation? I don't get it. Make us more competitive? With the slave laborers?
That really illustrates the "Us" and "them" mentality. The scorn and contempt people like this must feel towards the American working class must equal what European nobility must have felt at one time.
You have the best graphs CR! The Pct Job Losses graph clearly indicates that we are in depression territory, especially when one considers the unprecedented govi support.
So now we have folks on extended/extended/extended UE. We need massive stimulus for stabilization alone. My call is that the Great Fiscal and Monetary Experiment fails within 15 months. It's the math, stupid.
If we can't trust the Middle-Kingdom in matters of toothpaste & cold medicine, why would you trust them with food?
100 Panamanians ended up stone-cold a few years back...
The Food and Drug Administration said it is blocking all shipments of toothpaste from China after reports of contaminated toothpaste entering Panama.
The toothpaste containted diethylene glycol, the same poison that the Panamanian government mistakenly mixed into cold medicine last year, killing at least 100 people. The poison, falsely labeled as glycerin, also originated in China.
Told me to find the smallest gold coins , place a 1/6 th of his investment in those coins in 6 safety deposit boxes around the world
The U.S. Mint had a response:
. . . .[A]s a result of the recent numismatic product portfolio analysis, fractional sizes of American Eagle Gold Uncirculated Coins will no longer be produced.
Could be worse; I had a friend that turned to online poker after he was laid off. Hmmmm......maybe that really isn't any worse?
Is Online Poker code for a job at GS ?
No; it's code for online poker. Working for GS would've been a GOOD move, for him anyway. Haven't you heard? 2 straight quarterly profits and bonuses for everyone?
If Obama-Pelosi enact their full agenda, double-digit unemployment will become a permanent feature in the US,
oh yeah all the kleptocrats in both parties and on Wall Street had nothing to do with it ?
The problem that I have with the Obama plan is that it still bases what I consider to be part of the social compact (health care) on the backs of employers. In a globalized economy when your major competitors don't have that burden it is plain suicide. I also think with regard to health care we have to make a decision whether it is a right/part of the social compact or the equivalent of soda i.e. you get what you can afford. It seems to me that once we have decided that it is a right/social compact then the notion of sub-contracting that out to employers is just plain wrong- you have a right to free speech only if your employer agrees to pay something?
If we decide that it is a right/social compact then we can get into the discussion of the scope of that right. Once we have done that then it is appropriate to think about how we will deliver the scope of service. The entire discussion on health care IMO has gotten the horse before the cart.
When Dean Baker makes a forecast for EMRATIO peaking, then we have something to talk about - one thing I would bet my next paycheck on is that there will be improvements in the U-3 going into the midterm elections - whether they are reflected in EMRATIO will be interesting to see...
If we want our blackberries and I-phones American workers will just have to accept $5/day for 12 hours of work, living in a dorm. And no internet or cell phones. Just no other way, you lazy bums. Where's NotAReal on a day like today?
Part of the coming reset is the realization that the American worker compensation has to fall. Unfortunately, we have many folks without the skills to support higher compensation.
Krugman's opinion piece in the NYT clearly describes how Obama missed an opportunity to do what was necessary to right the economy last Spring.
Bottom-line: Obama's team fumbled with a too-small stimulus package and tepid bank rescue/reform and their strategy has backfired in that it has made it difficult to enact more stimulus or real reform.
"If we just get rid of minimum wage, each banker could have a pedicurist for every toe. Creates jobs. "
Wow, that sure sounds like a job for me. Maybe start as pinky toe assistant, work my way all the way up to Big Toe Manager! My mother finally would be so proud.
And when the Glorious Revolution finally arrives, I will be a fully certified Toe Torturer!
So, wages are so 20th century.
The new era might be protectionism. As in, I belong to my protector.
I don't like the direction this thought is going. Can we steer this conversation in a different direction?
And in 1975, Vietnamese that didn't want to go re-education camping, had tales to tell and taels to sell, when they arrived in Guam, after financing their way out of hell.
Jackrabbit (profile) wrote on Fri, 11/6/2009 - 8:28 am
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Krugman's opinion piece in the NYT clearly describes how Obama missed an opportunity to do what was necessary to right the economy last Spring.
Bottom-line: Obama's team fumbled with a too-small stimulus package and tepid bank rescue/reform and their strategy has backfired in that it has made it difficult to enact more stimulus or real reform.
He has surrounded himself with people of the ; not very good at creating jobs.
Perhaps we didn't get the decline in the labor force this month because of all the unemployment benefits - you have to be looking for a job to get the benefit. If they no longer extend those than there will be some people who will drop out of the labor force. In 2010 the leading edge of the boomers turns 65 - maybe they just go onto social Security.
If we want our blackberries and I-phones American workers will just have to accept $5/day for 12 hours of work, living in a dorm. And no internet or cell phones. Just no other way, you lazy bums. Where's NotAReal on a day like today?
You say this, but you must admit there are costs to a minimum wage. For example, everyone knows the proper way to truly appreciate chocolate is to have four servants prepare it.
Part of the coming reset is the realization that the American worker compensation has to fall.
Fall? As in in Bannana Republic fall? Going to really help a 70% consumer driven economy by falling. Going to love watch every town, county, state dry up and blow away.
Why duck? Is it politically incorrect? I have it here on my shelf to read, my husband read it, I read the cartoon version and posted it here a ways back.
Geithner did his best to say nothing on Meet the Press but he did say negative employment would end 'first of the year...first quarter'.
If this happens I will be surprised since a lot of small businesses will be doing the wind down thingy post xmas to springtime. And with hours worked per week still at a record low 33.0 I would expect to see hours increased before any big hiring increase.
Obama's team fumbled with a too-small stimulus package and tepid bank rescue/reform
I think Krugman's full of it. The problem with him and the Obama team along with most of the mainstream economists is that all of their solutions are predicated on the assumption that the economy was at a sustainable level prior to the financial melt down. No amount of stimulus is going to help unless there were attempts made at altering the underlying trend- increased consumption in an economy dominated by consumption was only possible through the expansion of debt and the creation of assets bubbles. Now they might think that is sustainable economic policy (clearly it benefits most of those on the top so it is is easy to see why they would believe it or at least wish it) .
[Part of the coming reset is the realization that the American worker compensation has to fall]
As is the case with all socialist countries, the USA will see a shift in the spending mix - government contributing more and consumer contributing less. That 70% figure is ALREADY history.
I remember the stories of the evac of Saigon which I missed by a month. They were landing choppers on our 6 inch gunmount, dumping people, then flying a little further out and bailing. The back helo pad was nonstop dump and go. Then they turned the boat around and dumped everyone at Subic. The entire crew got the crabs too.
Why duck? Is it politically incorrect? I have it here on my shelf to read, my husband read it, I read the cartoon version and posted it here a ways back.
A lot of folks here have disdain for the Austrian School (not me), which oddly enough, is centered in SE Alabama. BTW, would you re-post or message me with that link?
I think it's because all of the CNBC types are obvious market shills (no offence, shill), but Maria is on a completely different level. If there was some sort of Olympic shilling competition, she'd have brought home more than Michael Phelps.
The change in total nonfarm payroll employment for August was revised from -201,000
to -154,000(-47,000), and the change for September was revised from -263,000 to
-219,000(-44,000).
might we expect something similar with the October figures? -190,000(-X?)
Get rid of cable- you will be surprised how much better life is without being bothered with dumb stuff. I get PBS of the air and one commercial channel for when I want to put my mind in neutral.
CR: Graphs that depict the growing, hopelessly unemployed would be great. How about the number of unemployed on each program (basic, extended, ext 2, ext 3) by quarter. The final set of bars could be the number of folks that have left the work force. The last set has obvious imperfections, but it is illuminating to see how many folks are not working over time.
It never was. Republicans just think that employers who hire illegals should get of scott-free, and bear no responsibility for their actions. All vile emotions land on the workers, and none on the other side of the coin.
crazyv (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Fri, 11/6/2009 - 8:35 am
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SNAFU wrote:
Obama's team fumbled with a too-small stimulus package and tepid bank rescue/reform
I think Krugman's full of it. The problem with him and the Obama team along with most of the mainstream economists is that all of their solutions are predicated on the assumption that the economy was at a sustainable level prior to the financial melt down. No amount of stimulus is going to help unless there were attempts made at altering the underlying trend- increased consumption in an economy dominated by consumption was only possible through the expansion of debt and the creation of assets bubbles. Now they might think that is sustainable economic policy (clearly it benefits most of those on the top so it is is easy to see why they would believe it or at least wish it) .
Well my view is to create millions of jobs, assuming we need the jobs, we can try two things: (manufacturing ain't coming back)
Substantial part of the population live and work on the farm
Huge lending to small business from federalized banks
A lot of folks here have disdain for the Austrian School (not me), which oddly enough, is centered in SE Alabama. BTW, would you re-post or message me with that link?
I think it's a very important book to read, and I still find it to be the major ideological influence I have when I'm first presented with a proposed policy. However, I usually find, for pragmatic or political reasons, that Austrian-leaning policies are often impossible to implement.
The reason they are so hard to champion is that they are easily overcome by appeals to emotion, and on the political level--even though they are harmful--appeals to emotion and other rhetoric rules the debate.
At what point do people lose faith in free trade, unregulated markets, etc? At some point, we need to realize these things only benefit a small sliver of the population.
A guy I worked for in the biz, got together as much cash as he could (I think a couple of suitcases) and high-tailed it for Guam, just after the fall of Saigon. Guam was where all the Vietnamese refugees went first, before coming here.
He thought he'd brought enough money to last a week, and he told me he ran out after just one day.
Quite a few Vietnamese-Americans did their first business transaction on our soil, with him...
crazxyv
got cable because discount on internet, got rid of the internet,got dsl and today they are coming to disconnect the cable cable, havent told sil yet,hehehe. he has laptop if he wants tv he can watch online like i do or get his own.nah
crazyv:
Krugman may be an "establishment economist" as you described, but he still argued for a policy that was better than what Obama's team came up with (easy on the bankers and stingy with mainstreet -> record WS bonuses and misery for the little guy)
At what point do people lose faith in free trade, unregulated markets, etc? At some point, we need to realize these things only benefit a small sliver of the population.
The car I drive today has more than a horsepower per cubic inch, and a beautifully wide torque curve. Nothing like that was available to the public when I was a kid, and this car might have won Le Mans back in the '60s (with the right driver). If the govt. planned these cars, they'd probably be VW beetles but with the quality standards of the Volga. Probably worse-
I just received my first shipment of American Eagle 1oz. silver Dollars. I was afraid I'd never get them, it took about 3 weeks from GoldCoinsGain.com. They are pretty neat and in really good condition. Now I'm hoping they aren't made of aluminum foil
I plan on buying more silver and gold coins in the coming months.....
Nuke wrote
At what point do people lose faith in free trade, unregulated markets, etc? At some point, we need to realize these things only benefit a small sliver of the population.
Nuke - if the sliver lost control of TeeVee. But it won't happen. Hasn't been thought of as a public resource since about 1985.
Krugman may be an "establishment economist" as you described, but he still argued for a policy that was better than what Obama's team came up with
Krugman has argued for a larger stimulus since day one. Krugman didn't need 3 Republican Senators' votes, each of whom had an idea about the monetary limit to be placed on the stimulus.
went to a tech investor conference yesterday and generally came away upbeat, general attitude was things (in tech land) getting incrementally better. (on the other hand, a lot of these guys are at the end of the food chain and will be the last to see a downturn if it comes.)
Re. the Employment-Population Ratio (employpopoct.jpg), seems that the data from the previous "Percent Employment Lost" chart that this figure WILL in fact increase (get "worser") another 2+% before all is done, bringing the damages to 1960s levels! Re. the Seasonal Retail Hiring data, LAST Christmas sales fell off the edge of the dish due to longer and higher than normal "specials pricing". THIS year, restocking never took place, as evidenced by no timely holiday product out of China - watch November hires - you don't need employees if retailers have nothing to sell nor customers to sell to - lastly, after this dismal holiday period, many more will close up shop and unemployment will rebound, making a "Happy 2010" impossible..... ..............but then what do I know - I'm still growing summer veggies in the damned desert in November in shorts........ Hoocoodanode?
First lets stop with the idea that we will require employers to pay for the cost of our social net. A US employer competing with a Canadian employer (for all practical purposes the equivalent geographically of another US employer) carries a labor cost of 13,000/year that the Canadian doesn't. So lets get rid of employer based health insurance and replace it with a single payer national system financed with a sales tax so that both imports and domestic production pick up the same burden.
Secondly, require that all product sold in the US must be produced at factories that are held to the same environmental standards as US employers. Also require that workers in those factories must work in safe and healthy conditions and be paid a living wage appropriate to their countries.
Third, impose the harshest penalties possible on employers of illegal workers.
Eliminate the corporate income tax by making every corporation essentially an LLC or some other limited liability tax pass through entity; also change their person status and prohibit them from lobbying. This will ensure that profits will be paid to shareholders along with the tax liability. It will reduce the effort that they spend on extraneous matters unrelated to the business of creating jobs and product plus it will also make sure that capital doesn't accumulate to agrandize the CEO.
I think if we did just those four things we would have a dramatically different economy. Yes clothes will cost more as more will be manufactured in the US. But that will be a good thing- we have too many clothes anyway and what we give up by not by a shirt will be more than made up by better communities that are supporting a wide variety of jobs at various intellectual levels.
senate just went 98-0 for the UE benefits /tax credit bill, which is practically a booster shot of ARRA. maybe the secret is just to have 50 @ $40B, and not a single $2T stimulus.
Obviously, the current system is not working. BTW, we already have federalized industries. Why can't we do what every other country does and give preferential treatment to domestic manufacturing. Yes, most countries, including the BRIC countries, do this. India has huge tariffs on imported cars. If those same cars are built domestically, the company gets bug tax credits. We have dis-incentives to manufacture domestically. Ask dryfly. So, I ask again, when do people lose faith in the current system.
I think it's a very important book to read, and I still find it to be the major ideological influence I have when I'm first presented with a proposed policy. However, I usually find, for pragmatic or political reasons, that Austrian-leaning policies are often impossible to implement.
And it is good fiction, in the same way Greek Ferry Schedules are works of fiction.
I'm not a Krugman fan particularly, but I do think that his op-ed today a clearly written description of a policy failing - which also affects Obama's policy objectives in other areas.
sportsfan: I think Krugman believes that Obama didn't push hard enough for a larger stimulus/reform. Myself, I don't know.
I'm a bit surprised at your responses. The government's (was/is) gonna do SOMETHING. Should that something largely benefit the bankers or the citizens? Has an opportunity to head off a larger crisis been missed or would it be better (as I sense some belive here) to have wholesale change via an economic disaster? (because nothings really gonna change until there's blood in the streets).
The problem with him and the Obama team along with most of the mainstream economists is that all of their solutions are predicated on the assumption that the economy was at a sustainable level prior to the financial melt down.
This was sort of the point Edmunds (nobel laureate in economics) was making in the FT piece the other day. Both the Keynesians and the neo-classicists are wrong with their recommendations because this IS NOT a business cycle event. It is a large scale credit, systemic event and calls for non-traditional thinking. He didn't really prescribe his own solution, just pointed out that most of the economic theory debates were totally misguided to begin with.
When I visit Chinese owned grocery stores, I stay away from all that is farmed and grown in China, especially the farm raised fish!
I will not eat or drink out of anything made in China much less eat anything made in China. If you really want to cut your spending set a goal of not buying anything made in China. It really does work wonders.
"When I visit Chinese owned grocery stores, I stay away from all that is farmed and grown in China, especially the farm raised fish!"
I don't want to give away all the secrets to my virility, good looks and even keeled manner when posting on CR.
But I'll let you in on part of my regimen. Melamine. Whenever I'm finding myself lacking in any of the above I nice steamed catfish (farmed of course from China, not wild) always does the trick.
Daveinsv- I think you are missing the bigger story. Tech is supposed to be the leading edge of the economy. Not all parts of the economy will recover at the same rate as the average growth of the economy. One would assume that the leading edges should do substantially better. If all they can muster is incrementally better not so good. Plus they are also the sector that most benefits from expansion overseas. So they could better without it saying much about the health of the US economy.
Oh, just ignore me. I'm being snarky because I have many people in and out of my office and I don't have the luxury of having the time to write out anything of substance. And I also haven't had the chance to read his op-ed today, so I'm doubly ignorant.
For political reasons the government had to do something. But unless Krugman is explicitly arguing in favour of dismantling TBTF banks, I can't take much else he says seriously.
Try and buy canned or bottled fruit @ the supermarket that isn't from China, you'll see a little bit from the Philippines and Thailand, but not much from the U.S. of A.
crazyv
First lets stop with the idea that we will require employers to pay for the cost of our social net. A US employer competing with a Canadian employer (for all practical purposes the equivalent geographically of another US employer) carries a labor cost of 13,000/year that the Canadian doesn't. So lets get rid of employer based health insurance and replace it with a single payer national system financed with a sales tax so that both imports and domestic production pick up the same burden.
Thanks for the thoughtful answer. I agree with on first point. We need a Canada style Health system.
Secondly, require that all product sold in the US must be produced at factories that are held to the same environmental standards as US employers. Also require that workers in those factories must work in safe and healthy conditions and be paid a living wage appropriate to their countries.
That imo is unworkable; easier to implement Indian like policies: make it here, sell it here; otherwise 100% duty.
Third, impose the harshest penalties possible on employers of illegal workers.
Eliminate the corporate income tax by making every corporation essentially an LLC or some other limited liability tax pass through entity; also change their person status and prohibit them from lobbying. This will ensure that profits will be paid to shareholders along with the tax liability. It will reduce the effort that they spend on extraneous matters unrelated to the business of creating jobs and product plus it will also make sure that capital doesn't accumulate to agrandize the CEO.
Both the Keynesians and the neo-classicists are wrong with their recommendations because this IS NOT a business cycle event. It is a large scale credit, systemic event and calls for non-traditional thinking
Well, FWIW I am convinced the credit event is also a symptom. This is a "current account & the realization that the USG's fiscal position is melting down" related systemic collapse manifesting itself in all sorts of dislocations. More govt sspending is only going to worsen the problems.
Actually Christine Romer had a pretty good article a long while back on why they chose the stimulus level they chose. Basically they knew they needed more but were well aware of the affect on the bond market and world financial psyche if they came out with an amount over a trillion.
Secondly, require that all product sold in the US must be produced at factories that are held to the same environmental standards as US employers. Also require that workers in those factories must work in safe and healthy conditions and be paid a living wage appropriate to their countries.
If anyone in the USA could get traction on this issue, you would have a very strong advocate with your northern neighbour. In can personally guarantee that a few politically valuable industries in Canada would push very hard on the government for that regulatory equivalency. And I would become a very strong advocate.
I will not bite my nose of to spite my face, but if I have an alternative of equal
or better quality, even if it costs a few buck more, I'll buy the alternative.
'bout time for that post on the EMRATIO-
The Feds are trying to manufacture Inflation as it is not easy to do. So in order to do so they must bring the un-employment number positive, as they are doing so in baby steps........one just has to scan Layoff-daily for the real numbers...case in point
British Airlines - Post Huge Loss , 5,000 Job Cuts by Year End
Leviton Manufacturing Co. Inc - 100
Duke University - 400 so Far, More to Come?
Hilliard Corporation - 30
Cooley Dickinson Hospital - 20 to 25
Daramic - 100
Ontario Legal Aid Program - Layoffs Coming
Brown Corporation - 264
Farley's & Sathers Candy Co - 175
Indiana Schools Warn of Funding Cuts - Layoffs Possible
ALSAC - 70
Southern Progress Corporation - More Layoffs Today
Wachovia Corp.'s North Charlotte Campus Day Care - 130
Blue Coat Systems - 20% of Staff
City of Grand Rapids - Layoffs to Be Announced
Quicksilver - 200
Corrections and Rehabilitation Department - Layoff Numbers
NetJets - 500
Day Pitney - 30
Seagoe Technologies ( International ) - 30
GM - Some Temporary Layoffs could Become Permanent
Mercks - Possible 16,000 Layoffs?
Merced County - 300 Buyouts / Early Retirement
Trinity Mirror ( International ) - 17 Editorial Jobs
Chevron ( Cook Inlet ) - 25
Real Networks - 4% of Workforce
Classmates - 71
Alabama State Agencies Laying off
Update: City of Elyria - Probably 15 Officers
City of Perris - Layoffs but How Many?
Neenah Common Council Approves City Teamsters Union Layoffs in 2010
City of Ukiah approved - 21 Layoffs
City of Henderson - Layoffs Likely
Schuyler County - 12 Layoffs Possible
Summit County - Plans 45 Layoffs Next Month
Washington Parish Sheriff's Office - 20
Sun Microsystems in Hillsboro - 42
Nordyne - 110
Sparta-Hancock County Library - Cutting Hours / Jobs ?
Empire Aero Center - 88
Hamilton Sundstrand in Rockford - 24
GM - 10,000 Layoffs at Opel
Franklin County - Layoffs Coming?
The Feds are trying to manufacture Inflation
We definitely need to start a tip jar to buy shill an 'r'.
Off to Home Depot to rent a chainsaw. Hopefully I don't cut anything off.
Classmates - 71
classmates.com has at least 71 people working for them?
classmates.com has at least 71 people working for them?
They must have their own IT department.
that chart (the colors) is all christmasy.
Will Sears survive?
Got to go for now. I've had my inoculation for the day, be well and safe all.
nova wrote:
Will we survive?
Leftys Liquors Lubricants and Tarp and Bank wrote:
Maybe broward will let you borrow his chaps; I'd suggest you consider using some.
nova
dont think so they made a big mistake getting rid of catalog (imo) maybe kmart but ours looks sick oh well we'll see
I think his chaps are too sweaty.
In unrelated news, Ms.Warren's COP has issued it's current monthly report:
Taxpayers risked trillions at height of crisis - Yahoo! Finance
gabyjan wrote:
Their primary customers for catalog sales now shop at Walmart. Oh well......
Christmas mall music. Complete with echo.
I think his chaps are too sweaty.
Pretty sure they were well ventilated in the back.
Jared Bernstein (?) on Bloomberg, he's the economic advisor to VP Biden. (Why does the VP need an economic advisor?) Anyway, he says things will get better quickly as the administration is presently creating OR SAVING 2.5 million jobs! So you see, help is on the way.....
Driving that train, high on loan pain,
Cagey B, you better watch your speed.
Trouble ahead, trouble behind,
And you know that notion just crossed my mind.
This old engine makes it on time,
Leaves Wall*Street Station 'bout at nine,
Hits PPT Junction at track number 2 so fine
At a quarter to three you know it's drivin' again.
Driving that train, high on loan pain,
Cagey B, you better watch your speed.
Trouble ahead, trouble behind,
And you know that notion just crossed my mind.
Trouble ahead, employment numbers in red,
Take my advice you'd be better off without debt.
Goldman's sweeping, train hundred and two is
On the wrong track and headed for you.
Driving that train, high on loan pain,
Cagey B, you better watch your speed.
Trouble ahead, you know, trouble behind,
And you know that notion just crossed my mind.
Trouble with you is the trouble with me,
Got two good eyes but we still don't see.
Come round the bend, you know it's the end,
The Dow Jones screams and the market just gleams...
Driving that train, high on loan pain,
Cagey B, you better watch your speed.
Trouble ahead, trouble behind,
And you know that notion just crossed my mind.
Driving that train, high on loan pain,
Cagey B, you better watch your speed.
Trouble ahead, trouble behind,
And you know that notion just crossed my mind.
Driving that train, high on loan pain,
Cagey B, you better watch your speed.
Trouble ahead, you know, trouble behind.
And you know that notion just crossed my mind.
Driving that train, high on loan pain,
Cagey B, you better watch your speed.
Trouble ahead, you know, trouble behind.
And you know that notion just crossed my mind.
And you know that notion just crossed my mind.
YouTube - grateful dead - Casey Jones - Three From The Vault
Leftys Liquors Lubricants and Tarp and Bank wrote:
LOL- agreed, at least I think. Never seen 'em-
gabyjan,
Sears owns Kmart. Maybe Sears could merge the Sears stores into the Kmart ones. Call them Smart stores.
Careful with the chainsaw, lefty.
No kidding, cinco. They saved my knee cap on the first day I used my new chainsaw.
80 million new job competitors in only 20 years (+/-)
If the young ones had any sense, they'd stop having kids, let the geezers die off, and be in the drivers' seat when the labor shortage took hold.
cinco-x
i shop at walmart. walmart is my mom and pop store for heavens sakes
Possible Broward sighting...
http://revart.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/poets_buttlesspants.jpg
WORK WARNING!
Is there was a way to estimate, of all the non farm jobs lost/shed, how many are being outsourced/offshored?
sportsfan wrote:
CR-" When the job market starts to recover, many of these people will reenter the workforce and look for employment - and that will keep the unemployment rate elevated for some time."
And what if this doesn't recover, and reality finally catches up with the illusion of continued expansion in a finite world? We are bumping against resources and environmental restraints right now.
$1.20 too $1100
Homegnome,
You need to put a work warning on stuff like that.
The retailers are going to be hammered this holiday season.
gabyjan wrote:
That wasn't a snark. I grew up in the country, and we always loved it when the "Wishbook" arrived. However, Walmart has now put up stores close to most of those small towns that once relied on the Sears catalog, so what was once a viable venture is no longer. Of course, that just speculation on my part, but I don't think it an entirely uneducated one-
PS: I use the local Walmart as well, since I still live in the country.
Time for Master Market to give Auntie Unchanged a wittle kiss.
HomeGnome wrote:
http://revart.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/poets_buttlesspants.jpg
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!
You need to put a work warning on stuff like that.
With a name like "buttlesspants.jpg", you need a warning?
Call it what you will - the market is repricing - when it doesn't tank on news like this, you have to conclude it's a different game.
Selling off Craftsman would be smart, but would be the death of their stores.
Absent Craftsman, what does Sears offer that ____ doesn't?
Without Craftsman tools in Lowe's or Home Depot, they don't have the foot traffic needed.
Yes, I've been in a Sears recently, it was worse than I expected.
HAHAHAHAH~
nova, I added a work warning.
But I know that none of the posters here are posting from work and therefore screwing their employer out of what they paid for.
CR-" When the job market starts to recover, many of these people will reenter the workforce and look for employment - and that will keep the unemployment rate elevated for some time."
To where? How many boomers cashed out the equity to start small biz's that otherwise never would have been funded? And never will be again?
And, INDU
.
shill wrote:
Feeling better now?!
pigged from last thread:
Nova - You know that the second you figured out & shorted retail stocks would be the second before a new retail stimulus package was announced.
true. what was I thinking?
Is it still politically incorrect to suggest that we could free up 10 million jobs by requiring employers to verify legal residency?
Sears is where America shops, so why do you all hate America?
Took all of 12 minutes for the DOW to go
Guess the mourning period for the recently unemployed has ended.
HOLY S**T that hurt. SPY went vertical there for a few minutes.
"Careful with the chainsaw, lefty. "
always a good idea
Outsider,
Yeah, the story of my life in many ways.
Maria getting an early ride on the 10k machine today......................
Sounds about right, and a few people to send out spam email trying to get people to join.
market is up because this seals the deal for next stimpac?
the ghostface school of "investing"?
Yes I am Cinco....thank you.....I am sure in some ways you can relate to the frustration....none the less its Friday....time
to make some money and pics of the day.
JS123 wrote:
You should address that inquiry to Harry and Nancy. BTW, does that sound like the title to a cheesy romantic comedy?
HomeGnome wrote:
One of these days...
nova ttp://money.cnn.com/2004/11/17/news/fortune500/sears_kmart/
i cant get thing to clickable, but kmart bought sears google kmart sears merger
Stop-gunners: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. Standby for a trip to the sub-basement.
I'm part-time for spiritual reasons.
AIG falls on concern FNM beat them to the trough.
Harry and Nancy. BTW, does that sound like the title to a cheesy romantic comedy?
Or a double-penetration 8mm short.
(ewwww.... there's a picture that didn't need to be painted)
gabyjan wrote:
Fixed it fer ya'
Gold $1,102.60 $12.30
Gold just hit $1,100.00
tncubsfan
those are gov jobs
Mike in Long Island wrote:
...they'll call him righty?
D.A. Will Seek Death in Chain Saw Murder Case - Los Angeles Times
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Careful with that electric axe, Max.
damn you nova, I got all interested in your novel after the Freya weirdness and was up til 3:00 am - still not completely caught up!
I'd like a listing of all the Wall St. firm economists who asserted that UE would never hit 10%. It would be long and distinguished, like my....
Stop-gunners: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. Standby for a trip to the sub-basement.
I guessed correctly they'd run stops in both directions.
Profit to my account on that guess ------> $0
Shop smart - shop S-Mart!
JD,
I didn't do it, man! I was framed.
Chainsaw wrote:
(ahem) used to be! Is that why they call you chainsaw
Gold $1,102.60 $12.30
whew. returning to fundamentals....
I got it gaby - thanks.
energycon - wow! the best compliment you can give a writer. thanks
,rad Chainsaw,
I feel positive you have a solid alibi, but all the same, we'd like you to come down to headquarters for a chat...
js123
thats what they wanted to do on one of the unemployment benefits thingies, i thought/think it should have been done,on both ue and homeowners credit but ....
where would all the corporate profits come from or the people to tend all those lawns in the middle of deserts. If there is political correctness at work it is not coming from the traditional bastions of PC but rather from the corporate and elites.
Long time lurker here but only now daring to comment
That employment to population chart sure looks like altitude chart taken from the black box of a crashed plane. "What you mean pedals are not working?!"
Elizabeth Warren blowing all credibility, saying guarantees+ TARP will make a profit.
Too early to call, except as to her wisdom, which I don't see.
Unless the GS prop desk has you on speed-dial, it's a mug's game.
Charlie Gasparino: Another Crash 'Has to Happen Again' -- Seeking Alpha
I know that's snark, but saying America shops at Sears is like saying American's drive 1950's Chevy's.
"That's so last week" (said in Paris Hilton voice)
Wait, can we sell Sears to the Cubans?
I bet we go sharply negative
We were able to pawn off Simpson-Sears to the Gulag Hockeypelago, so anything is possible, yes.
cinco-x thank you so much.dont know what i was doing wrong,it certainly wasnt my first link this morning.
Mondo T-Bondo:
looks
to me.
remember its the matrix!
gabyjan, you didn't copy the "h" at the start of "http."
The way to avoid that problem is to highlight the entire URL and right click to "copy."
Pretty cool heatmap of US unemployment.....
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/unemployment.gif
Pretty eye opening to say the least
So after taking a -0.4% leg down last month, EMRATIO took a -0.3% leg down this month...and the seasonally adjusted U-6 is at 17.5%
.
credit card rates up and credit limits down...
I guessed correctly they'd run stops in both directions.
Thanks Eric. Sometimes I just forget the basics.
loserbeachbum
welcome and its just like you said. the pedals arnt working.
Too little too late Gasbag.
DXY taking a dive
INO Equities Stocks Indexes - U.S $ INDEX (NYBOT:DX) Price Chart and Quote
snafu
i thought they said they werent a bank anymore
google here i come
LoserBeachBum wrote:
welcome into the deep end of the pool.
Yep, that is one ugly chart.
World’s Central Banks Signal End to Policy ‘Largesse’
World’s Central Banks Signal End to Policy ‘Largesse’ (Update1) - Bloomberg.com
Pretty cool heatmap of US unemployment.....
I think the CDC just copies and pastes this for the
flu
Can't wait for an up day on this news. "Expert" on Bloomberg tv says we have to eliminate minimum wage.
Wonder how many unemployed people are turning to day-trading to try to make a living?
Yikes. I'll bet it's happening. Look out below.
SNAFU wrote:
Gasparino wrote this?
Perception...of...Gasbag...changing.......Brain...wrinkling....
Ow, it hurts when my established preconceptions suddenly shift like that.
1 currency now -yogi wrote:
Ah, the Oligarch Channel. But I guess I still like it better than CNBC.
It's interesting with Count Formaldehyde, in regards to the barbarous...
He's of Iranian heritage, but he never spent much time there, so he wouldn't have known about how the diaspora of wealth that happened as the Shah was going down in the late 70's.
There are about a million Persian-Americans in LA, some cute nicknames have arisen like "Tehrangles" or "Irangeles". Almost every last one of them came to our country 30 years ago or so. Many of them have done quite well in their adopted city, and almost all of them brought gold with them, in which to finance their new start in life.
The ones that didn't got to hang around Iran for a spell, or longer.
Future Bloomberg headline:
Wages are overrated.
1 currency now -yogi wrote:
We need a panel discussion with him and the guy who wrote the WSJ Op-Ed about making insider trading legal.
The retailers are going to be hammered this holiday season.
Yep. I follow the sales tax revenue for virginia and the latest month over month was down 6.6% (down 5.9% ytd). If Walmart and other big chains are able to keep sales flat or squeak out small gains for xmas it will come directly at the expense of small retailers.
And with over 8000 stores having already closed this year I don't trust any of the major chains reporting same store sales since the weakest stores have been weeded out.
No, GS said they did not operate with an implicit government backstop.
Even CNBC shills could not report this statement with a straight face.
Colorado cut their minimum wage last month.
Yahoo! 404 - Page Not Found
Gasparino's talking his book - literally. He's just trying to hype his Wall St. "tell all" that's coming out.
10.2% makes sense.
Yesterday's report of hugely improved productivity was a sign that the unemployment rate was going to be high. Because employers are laying off many workers and making their remaining workers work their asses off for the same wages as before.
This is a hidden kind of wage deflation. Where people sometimes have to work twice as hard as before for the same wages in order to keep their jobs. While many other people remain unemployed and without much income.
There is no need to cut wages, when employers can make their workers work a lot harder and faster for the same wages as before. And employers can certainly do that when the unemployment rate is high.
If Obama-Pelosi enact their full agenda, double-digit unemployment will become a permanent feature in the US, just as in much of Europe. And that 99 weeks of unemployment benefits will become yet another ruinous entitlement program.
If we do away with minimum wages, we won't be able to retain quality talent.
That line worked for the big wigs, wonder if it would work for us.
This is a time for somebody high enough up the food chain on Wall*Street, somebody with ethics and a strong sense of morals, to step up like Alan Grayson has, and ask the hard questions, but unfortunately, it appears that such a person doesn't actually exist.
Wanted: outgoing and enthusiastic applicants to work as restroom ambassadors in central New York location. Good pay.
Hundreds vie for lucrative NY toilet jobs
| Reuters
gabyjan
From
Short Memories at Goldman
By JOE NOCERA
NYT
double digit UE is here to stay either way
If we just get rid of minimum wage, each banker could have a pedicurist for every toe. Creates jobs.
gasbag is just selling a book. Nothing more....or I suppose you forgot how he was used as the mouthpiece for MBI ( and the rest of the insurers) as they were constantly flirting with actually having to go under (what a thought!..
)
The wind blows in all directions.....his is now "firmly" in the retail book sales direction.
Ciao
MS
No, your thinking all wrong with cutting minimum wage. All you have to do is require all goods and services sold in the US to be manufactured in accordance to US safety and environmental guidelines, minimum wage, and govt health care.
How many jobs would return to the US that way?
The other way around we just race to the bottom.
I seen on the News ( Ya I know ) Last night that retailers will not be dropping prices because they will not be ordering new goods. This is Deflationary right? ( Crickets chirping )
10.2% UE simply being called a "psychological" headline! That's all. Traders have gotten over it, initial reaction down but nothing more..... All is well........
Mr. Corzine goes to Charlotte? (Dealscape - Corporate restructuring)
My prediction last night was it didn't matter what U3 or payroll numbers were the market would move higher. Looks like I'm a god dang oracle!!
gabyjan wrote:
You left the "h" off of http://
The more I hear from these knee-jerk-off free enterprise tardclowns the worse my Tourette's syndrome gets.
Kinda like, eh, you've seen one fatal accident, you've seem em all, keep driving...
Fewer worker = higher profits.
Until there are no workers and the company goes TU.
MS wrote:
I don't deny he's just pumping his book. What I find intriguing is the subject matter he's chosen. I suppose we'll have to wait and see if it's an over-hyped fluff piece or if he's actually put some effort behind it and some yummy details within it.
Cinco-X wrote:
Careful with that axe Eugene is a song from Pink Floyd as is One of These Days- I took HomeGnomes comment to be a take off on Careful with that axe... Sorry for the OT musings.
The only words are "One of these days I'm going to cut you into little pieces"
I heard they are thinking of making "racing to the bottom" a medal event, at the next olympics...
78 users and 652 guests online
think i know why i havent been able to get clickable links
it really really slow more than 2:30 mins way more.just info
Unemployed people don't trade stocks in quantity. Higher unemployment means less money for people that don't matter and more money for people that do....
josap wrote:
Has anyone found an updated version of this chart?
The Geography of Jobs - TIP Strategies
The last data is July 2009. I'd love it if they'd incorporate the more recent filings...
Look at the EMRATIO plot for a minute, folks - tell me, where is the peak from the latest "growth cycle"?
.
That's right, January 2007...so we are almost three years into job losses and they just accelerated into the teeth of the largest government spend since WWII (proportionatley)...
Must be all the unemployed people clogging up the bandwidth.
"shill (profile) wrote on Fri, 11/6/2009 - 8:09 am
reply ignore user
I seen on the News ( Ya I know ) Last night that retailers will not be dropping prices because they will not be ordering new goods. This is Deflationary right? ( Crickets chirping )"
not ordering new goods due to lack of demand in a 70% consumption based economy is inflationary?
Are you a news anchor on CNBS?
Outsider wrote:
Could be worse; I had a friend that turned to online poker after he was laid off. Hmmmm......maybe that really isn't any worse?
I see what they are doing with the #'s........make the actual be worse up until the second quarter so that they "surprise" on that all important home stretch run into fall and the mid-terms. Exactly what the douche at GS did with the GDP numbers. Gotta produce a "beat" at some point.
Ciao
MS
Headline only, no story yet....
PwC Sees U.S. Lodging RevPAR Down 0.7% In 2010
That ought to be good for a chuckle a year from now.
I looked at the Railfax Weekly. I don't see any love there. I really think that Christmas will be the point when when it all starts to come in focus for many how things may not be as good as they have been portrayed.
OT, but China is demanding that the US revoke the 2004 ban on the sale of Chinese chicken exports here in this counrty with China citing the terms of their WTO membership. All this, after the deaths of so many in China, around the world, and pets in the US from melamine poisoning. Their chickens were fed melamine and they still have food shortages for their own people. Did they or have they purchased enough farmland in Africa and South America to ensure potential future significant increased supplies to export or what? Or do they want to start poisoning people again. It doesn't make sense unless they plan on purchasing or have been purchasing real, tangible assets in this country since, exluding US treasury purchases, that is required to enable a trade surplus.
Set the controls for the heart of the sun.
Synchronized sinking is also being considered for the next olympiad.
poic
no youre not,even i knew that would be how it would be, sorry.
Online poker seems to be all the rage for the pie-eyed soon-to-be-wealthy. Always a sucker, always someone to relieve the sucker of his cash.
And it is a great song!
YouTube - 2/4 Careful With That Axe Eugene (Ummagumma Live-1969)
Stephen Davis U. Chicago fuckhead calling for no minimum wage.
I refuse to believe it until I see a created or saved chart, otherwise it's just numbers...
I had a client when I was a private banker who was relative of the Shah of Iran also one of the sharpest risk managers. I was giving him the usual pitch about having a portion of his portfolio in gold. After listening politely he said - I have two questions "where is the gold held and in what form is it". To which I responded its in vault in Credit Suisse and in one kilo bars. To which his response was "two more questions- when the Russian run over Switzerland how do I get my gold and what exactly will I be able to buy with 1 kilo bars" He then went on to tell me how to do it right. Told me to find the smallest gold coins , place a 1/6 th of his investment in those coins in 6 safety deposit boxes around the world and send him the keys. Where upon he finished by saying if you are going to invest in gold that is the way you do it.
energyecon wrote:
How does the rest of that song go...?
cinco-x
i kept erasing and trying again,that poor h! oh bad me!
It's a little early for the "F Bomb", IMO; yogi!
Dean Baker was saying he expects the unemployment rate to peak this coming spring, but I don't think so.
November of this coming year seems more likely, but then I'm an amateur.
But, amateurs built the ark, professionals built the Titanic.
There's a moral in there.
Somewhere.
Just how will having no minimum wage alleviate our situation? I don't get it. Make us more competitive? With the slave laborers?
Wait a minute. I'm beginning to see the big picture here.
or youve seen one train wreck you've seem them all
Cinco-X wrote:
Is Online Poker code for a job at GS ?
digalert wrote:
You gotta spend *jobs to *make jobs.
But, amateurs built the ark, professionals built the Titanic.
mp - If you think about it, that's a really profound statement.
Employment down
Wall Street up
Disconnect between
row and main street? The policies need to change and soon!
I forget exactly but it was something about the blues....
I'm pretty sure the manufacturers aren't going to just sit there and say "well, since my usual retailers aren't going to buy my goods, I might as well just turn out the lights and wait for more orders".
I mean, many will make that decision because they don't have the cash to carry on, but many will simply try to find easier ways of reaching the customer and cutting out the retailer.
If my options are to cover 100% of my fixed costs and 50% of my variable costs by selling through some online retailer, or having to foot the bill for 100% of my fixed costs while I shut down production and wait for traditional retailers to order, what do you think my choice will be?
Look for some stellar deals through online retailers, would be my guess. Which would not be inflationary.
I am definitely going to use that one, mp.
Just how will having no minimum wage alleviate our situation? I don't get it.
as yogi stated, without minimum wage you can now afford 10 pedicurists, one for each toe. voila, unemployment gets reduced...
Whoa. I'd better have some more coffee.
I'm guessing that his grandmother like mine had said "don't put all your eggs in one basket" but perhaps the phrase is a little different there?
I imagine a lot of people thought that grandma's phrase was some silly old saying and didn't bother to think about it, and wonder if they even "got it" after losing big on their 80% position of total portfolio in their Enron/Worldcom/Lehman stock.
BWDIK
Minimum wage should be set by each state to reflect the true cost of living in that area. IIRC 28 states had a higher minimum wage then the FED before they raised it. Minimum wage law does cost jobs in some areas.
Just how will having no minimum wage alleviate our situation? I don't get it. Make us more competitive? With the slave laborers?
That really illustrates the "Us" and "them" mentality. The scorn and contempt people like this must feel towards the American working class must equal what European nobility must have felt at one time.
Is this the first month this year where the payroll number came in lower than the worst NFP number during the last recession?
mp wrote:
Is that when he expects folks to stop looking, and start working for cash/food/shelter in the underground economy?
crazyv
now he makes sense.
You have the best graphs CR! The Pct Job Losses graph clearly indicates that we are in depression territory, especially when one considers the unprecedented govi support.
So now we have folks on extended/extended/extended UE. We need massive stimulus for stabilization alone. My call is that the Great Fiscal and Monetary Experiment fails within 15 months. It's the math, stupid.
So, wages are so 20th century.
The new era might be protectionism. As in, I belong to my protector.
I don't like the direction this thought is going. Can we steer this conversation in a different direction?
Outsider wrote:
Lets stop wages and everyone just gets a bonus.
If we can't trust the Middle-Kingdom in matters of toothpaste & cold medicine, why would you trust them with food?
100 Panamanians ended up stone-cold a few years back...
FDA Bans Toothpaste from China after 51 Deaths in Panama
but the amateurs had some help from high up.
crazyv wrote:
The U.S. Mint had a response:
Tough crowd when you forget to add the /snark/ remark....and no i am not a member of CNBS, I get plenty of BS right here.
w10949 wrote:
No; it's code for online poker. Working for GS would've been a GOOD move, for him anyway. Haven't you heard? 2 straight quarterly profits and bonuses for everyone?
shill wrote:
oh yeah all the kleptocrats in both parties and on Wall Street had nothing to do with it ?
The problem that I have with the Obama plan is that it still bases what I consider to be part of the social compact (health care) on the backs of employers. In a globalized economy when your major competitors don't have that burden it is plain suicide. I also think with regard to health care we have to make a decision whether it is a right/part of the social compact or the equivalent of soda i.e. you get what you can afford. It seems to me that once we have decided that it is a right/social compact then the notion of sub-contracting that out to employers is just plain wrong- you have a right to free speech only if your employer agrees to pay something?
If we decide that it is a right/social compact then we can get into the discussion of the scope of that right. Once we have done that then it is appropriate to think about how we will deliver the scope of service. The entire discussion on health care IMO has gotten the horse before the cart.
Outsider wrote:
I really like the colours on CR's 'Seasonal Retail Hiring' chart. They're very festive and appropriate...
Kudos, big man!
As for arks, I hope everyone is building one.
Remember, Noah built it before the rain. Before the rain.
UE heading to 11%. Clearly we desperately need Cap & Trade to really address this problem... LMAO!
Basel Too wrote:
25 cents an hour, and all you can eat?
For Yogi.
YouTube - 3/4 Set The Controls For The Heart Of The Sun (UL-1969)
And a friendly reminder that there is still time to cast your vote in the BFF Poll.
When Dean Baker makes a forecast for EMRATIO peaking, then we have something to talk about - one thing I would bet my next paycheck on is that there will be improvements in the U-3 going into the midterm elections - whether they are reflected in EMRATIO will be interesting to see...
No job = no wood. I do have plenty of boulders tho. I can try that. But I don't know if it will float.
You keep saying that mp. I keep trying to think of ideas. I'm still thinking.
Us vs. Them, kind of like Americans are to go for hard labor jobs. Enter illegal immigration. Uppity is not just for the rich any more.
I really like the colours on CR's 'Seasonal Retail Hiring' chart. They're very festive and appropriate...
noob, that's weak. you've got to do it Con Dao style, and cite some esoteric study on bar graph color schemes.
If we want our blackberries and I-phones American workers will just have to accept $5/day for 12 hours of work, living in a dorm. And no internet or cell phones. Just no other way, you lazy bums. Where's NotAReal on a day like today?
w10949 wrote:
And without having to perform well!
Part of the coming reset is the realization that the American worker compensation has to fall. Unfortunately, we have many folks without the skills to support higher compensation.
Krugman's opinion piece in the NYT clearly describes how Obama missed an opportunity to do what was necessary to right the economy last Spring.
Bottom-line: Obama's team fumbled with a too-small stimulus package and tepid bank rescue/reform and their strategy has backfired in that it has made it difficult to enact more stimulus or real reform.
Spooz: failure to launch. Next stop: downtown.
*Maybe you know some little places to go . . . *
"If we just get rid of minimum wage, each banker could have a pedicurist for every toe. Creates jobs. "
Wow, that sure sounds like a job for me. Maybe start as pinky toe assistant, work my way all the way up to Big Toe Manager! My mother finally would be so proud.
And when the Glorious Revolution finally arrives, I will be a fully certified Toe Torturer!
I've always wondered if the Chinese could take out the US as a superpower without setting foot on US soil.
I won't go into details of "how" I think it could be done, but coworkers have suggested I go work for the CIA.
Outsider wrote:
Have you read "The Road to Serfdom"?
:ducks:
Basel Too wrote:
The Duke has an obvious ocean of experience and knowledge to draw from. I thought it'd be fairly evident by now that I'm as shallow as a muddy puddle.
I believe they could take the US out without bullets and bombs.
Annnnnnnnnnnnd..... we're back under 10k.
Maria smoking a cigarette now..... towelling off and getting ready for afternoon action.....
For the love of..
The pace of posts must be a record.
And in 1975, Vietnamese that didn't want to go re-education camping, had tales to tell and taels to sell, when they arrived in Guam, after financing their way out of hell.
This is what their passports looked like:
http://www.worldwide-numismatics.com/Vietnam.jpg
He has surrounded himself with people of the
; not very good at creating jobs.
Dean Baker maybe onto something
Perhaps we didn't get the decline in the labor force this month because of all the unemployment benefits - you have to be looking for a job to get the benefit. If they no longer extend those than there will be some people who will drop out of the labor force. In 2010 the leading edge of the boomers turns 65 - maybe they just go onto social Security.
Outsider wrote:
The markets have been getting plenty of wood, but undoubtedly as the result of BHO's fluffing package-
1 currency now -yogi wrote:
You say this, but you must admit there are costs to a minimum wage. For example, everyone knows the proper way to truly appreciate chocolate is to have four servants prepare it.
What are those skills? The skills I see being compensated right now are mainly highly skilled manipulators.
Allen C,
Part of the coming reset is the realization that the American worker compensation has to fall.
Fall? As in in Bannana Republic fall? Going to really help a 70% consumer driven economy by falling. Going to love watch every town, county, state dry up and blow away.
i'm good friends with a couple who bought their way out of vietnam in 1979 with gold.
Cinco - I heard food works. Maybe you should think about lunch.
I have to ask the board:
What is the fascination with Maria B?
She's not even that attractive.
Have you read "The Road to Serfdom"?
:ducks:
Why duck? Is it politically incorrect? I have it here on my shelf to read, my husband read it, I read the cartoon version and posted it here a ways back.
A prediction for the memory hole.
Geithner did his best to say nothing on Meet the Press but he did say negative employment would end 'first of the year...first quarter'.
If this happens I will be surprised since a lot of small businesses will be doing the wind down thingy post xmas to springtime. And with hours worked per week still at a record low 33.0 I would expect to see hours increased before any big hiring increase.
homeG
I've often wondered that.....looks very "used" to me.
Ciao
MS
SNAFU wrote:
I think Krugman's full of it. The problem with him and the Obama team along with most of the mainstream economists is that all of their solutions are predicated on the assumption that the economy was at a sustainable level prior to the financial melt down. No amount of stimulus is going to help unless there were attempts made at altering the underlying trend- increased consumption in an economy dominated by consumption was only possible through the expansion of debt and the creation of assets bubbles. Now they might think that is sustainable economic policy (clearly it benefits most of those on the top so it is is easy to see why they would believe it or at least wish it) .
Hell if I know.
What's the fascination with CNBC?
I stopped watching that crap 17 years ago.
captainmorgan
easy isnt it.
what is that they about the chinese... they bring their families with them? something like that.
[Part of the coming reset is the realization that the American worker compensation has to fall]
As is the case with all socialist countries, the USA will see a shift in the spending mix - government contributing more and consumer contributing less. That 70% figure is ALREADY history.
I remember the stories of the evac of Saigon which I missed by a month. They were landing choppers on our 6 inch gunmount, dumping people, then flying a little further out and bailing. The back helo pad was nonstop dump and go. Then they turned the boat around and dumped everyone at Subic. The entire crew got the crabs too.
Outsider wrote:
A lot of folks here have disdain for the Austrian School (not me), which oddly enough, is centered in SE Alabama. BTW, would you re-post or message me with that link?
Outsider wrote:
I'm always thinking about lunch-
I stopped watching CNBC about six months or so ago.
Corporatist Cheerleading.
MS wrote:
Would you post a link"
HomeGnome wrote:
I think it's because all of the CNBC types are obvious market shills (no offence, shill), but Maria is on a completely different level. If there was some sort of Olympic shilling competition, she'd have brought home more
than Michael Phelps.
Does anybody really need anything this xmas, after having been on a prolonged binge of buying for oh so long?
And i'm including kids. If I have to see one more room filled to the brim with 43 toys...
from the report:
The change in total nonfarm payroll employment for August was revised from -201,000
to -154,000(-47,000), and the change for September was revised from -263,000 to
-219,000(-44,000).
might we expect something similar with the October figures? -190,000(-X?)
Cinco - just for you:
The Illustrated Road to Serfdom
no.....got better things to do.
Ciao
MS
Get rid of cable- you will be surprised how much better life is without being bothered with dumb stuff. I get PBS of the air and one commercial channel for when I want to put my mind in neutral.
I was always partial to
YouTube - Echoes - Pink Floyd - full version ( Meddle ), high quality Pt. 1/3
It's the nightstand cowboy fantasy.
CR: Graphs that depict the growing, hopelessly unemployed would be great. How about the number of unemployed on each program (basic, extended, ext 2, ext 3) by quarter. The final set of bars could be the number of folks that have left the work force. The last set has obvious imperfections, but it is illuminating to see how many folks are not working over time.
Another great song by Pink Floyd!
Oath Keeper Sheriff Richard Mack
YouTube - Oath Keeper Sheriff Richard Mack
I like what this guy has too say.
Well Santa,
I'd like a few hundred 10oz. silver bars.
It never was. Republicans just think that employers who hire illegals should get of scott-free, and bear no responsibility for their actions. All vile emotions land on the workers, and none on the other side of the coin.
Well my view is to create millions of jobs, assuming we need the jobs, we can try two things: (manufacturing ain't coming back)
Stimulate by targeted lending and change job mix.
What is your way of creating jobs?
Cinco-X wrote:
I think it's a very important book to read, and I still find it to be the major ideological influence I have when I'm first presented with a proposed policy. However, I usually find, for pragmatic or political reasons, that Austrian-leaning policies are often impossible to implement.
The reason they are so hard to champion is that they are easily overcome by appeals to emotion, and on the political level--even though they are harmful--appeals to emotion and other rhetoric rules the debate.
At what point do people lose faith in free trade, unregulated markets, etc? At some point, we need to realize these things only benefit a small sliver of the population.
,rad nova,
A guy I worked for in the biz, got together as much cash as he could (I think a couple of suitcases) and high-tailed it for Guam, just after the fall of Saigon. Guam was where all the Vietnamese refugees went first, before coming here.
He thought he'd brought enough money to last a week, and he told me he ran out after just one day.
Quite a few Vietnamese-Americans did their first business transaction on our soil, with him...
So Maria, how big is that nightstand cowboy?
http://theinsanityreport.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/meetthepressqbwuhadc5cxl.jpg
---For Cinco.
crazxyv
got cable because discount on internet, got rid of the internet,got dsl and today they are coming to disconnect the cable cable, havent told sil yet,hehehe. he has laptop if he wants tv he can watch online like i do or get his own.nah
JD, since you asked:
YouTube - Eartha Kitt Santa Baby New Faces of 52
What she said.
crazyv:
Krugman may be an "establishment economist" as you described, but he still argued for a policy that was better than what Obama's team came up with (easy on the bankers and stingy with mainstreet -> record WS bonuses and misery for the little guy)
Nuke wrote:
The car I drive today has more than a horsepower per cubic inch, and a beautifully wide torque curve. Nothing like that was available to the public when I was a kid, and this car might have won Le Mans back in the '60s (with the right driver). If the govt. planned these cars, they'd probably be VW beetles but with the quality standards of the Volga. Probably worse-
Jackrabbit wrote:
Whoa, let's not set the bar too high.
I just received my first shipment of American Eagle 1oz. silver Dollars. I was afraid I'd never get them, it took about 3 weeks from GoldCoinsGain.com. They are pretty neat and in really good condition. Now I'm hoping they aren't made of aluminum foil
I plan on buying more silver and gold coins in the coming months.....
Nuke wrote
At what point do people lose faith in free trade, unregulated markets, etc? At some point, we need to realize these things only benefit a small sliver of the population.
Nuke - if the sliver lost control of TeeVee. But it won't happen. Hasn't been thought of as a public resource since about 1985.
HomeGnome wrote:
I think she likes the "Angry Anaconda"
Thanks-
YIKES:
Health-Care Bill Doesn't Index for Inflation; Hits Young and Rising Middle Class Hard - WSJ.com
okay its a what if time
what if all those bonuses arent really bonuses but serverce pay! gs and others do know that all things do come to an end.
Jackrabbit wrote:
Krugman has argued for a larger stimulus since day one. Krugman didn't need 3 Republican Senators' votes, each of whom had an idea about the monetary limit to be placed on the stimulus.
"If we can't trust the Middle-Kingdom in matters of toothpaste & cold medicine, why would you trust them with food?"
the Chinese don't trust their own food. The stories I hear from my in laws when they're in China are truly hair raising.
DDT in food.
Dangerous oils in food.
We're getting the "organic" variety comparatively speaking.
noob goldberg wrote:
Keep at it, and you will be able to quit you day job-
Well my view is to create millions of jobs, assuming we need the jobs, we can try two things: (manufacturing ain't coming back)
Both of these could describe China
break time laters
Krugman is full of hot air. We could have done double, triple the stimulus and it wouldn't have changed the position we're in by much.
AIG posts 2nd consecutive quarterly profit - Yahoo! Finance
When I visit Chinese owned grocery stores, I stay away from all that is farmed and grown in China, especially the farm raised fish!
Stimulus = Raising on a bluff in a poker game.
purple wrote:
Bonus! We could use those farms for "re-education" and those Federalized banks for planning the new economy
amateur built the arc.... +1
went to a tech investor conference yesterday and generally came away upbeat, general attitude was things (in tech land) getting incrementally better. (on the other hand, a lot of these guys are at the end of the food chain and will be the last to see a downturn if it comes.)
Re. the Employment-Population Ratio (employpopoct.jpg), seems that the data from the previous "Percent Employment Lost" chart that this figure WILL in fact increase (get "worser") another 2+% before all is done, bringing the damages to 1960s levels! Re. the Seasonal Retail Hiring data, LAST Christmas sales fell off the edge of the dish due to longer and higher than normal "specials pricing". THIS year, restocking never took place, as evidenced by no timely holiday product out of China - watch November hires - you don't need employees if retailers have nothing to sell nor customers to sell to - lastly, after this dismal holiday period, many more will close up shop and unemployment will rebound, making a "Happy 2010" impossible..... ..............but then what do I know - I'm still growing summer veggies in the damned desert in November in shorts........ Hoocoodanode?
Stimulus = Raising on a bluff in a poker game.
Except that the Treasury isn't playing table stakes. They can go into their pocket mid-hand.
Ever read the labels on toothpaste? Most say distributed by xxxx. Not where it was made.
SNAFU wrote:
First lets stop with the idea that we will require employers to pay for the cost of our social net. A US employer competing with a Canadian employer (for all practical purposes the equivalent geographically of another US employer) carries a labor cost of 13,000/year that the Canadian doesn't. So lets get rid of employer based health insurance and replace it with a single payer national system financed with a sales tax so that both imports and domestic production pick up the same burden.
Secondly, require that all product sold in the US must be produced at factories that are held to the same environmental standards as US employers. Also require that workers in those factories must work in safe and healthy conditions and be paid a living wage appropriate to their countries.
Third, impose the harshest penalties possible on employers of illegal workers.
Eliminate the corporate income tax by making every corporation essentially an LLC or some other limited liability tax pass through entity; also change their person status and prohibit them from lobbying. This will ensure that profits will be paid to shareholders along with the tax liability. It will reduce the effort that they spend on extraneous matters unrelated to the business of creating jobs and product plus it will also make sure that capital doesn't accumulate to agrandize the CEO.
I think if we did just those four things we would have a dramatically different economy. Yes clothes will cost more as more will be manufactured in the US. But that will be a good thing- we have too many clothes anyway and what we give up by not by a shirt will be more than made up by better communities that are supporting a wide variety of jobs at various intellectual levels.
But it is better than anticipated, so everything is ok.
Believe me, China knows how to create jobs and surpluses! Now if they would only stop running tanks over their own people!
senate just went 98-0 for the UE benefits /tax credit bill, which is practically a booster shot of ARRA. maybe the secret is just to have 50 @ $40B, and not a single $2T stimulus.
cinco-X:
Obviously, the current system is not working. BTW, we already have federalized industries. Why can't we do what every other country does and give preferential treatment to domestic manufacturing. Yes, most countries, including the BRIC countries, do this. India has huge tariffs on imported cars. If those same cars are built domestically, the company gets bug tax credits. We have dis-incentives to manufacture domestically. Ask dryfly. So, I ask again, when do people lose faith in the current system.
Mondo T-Bondo exits rehab clean and sober.
Impressive.
my sentiments exactly- what would Bush Jr have done differently with the bank bail out.?
Speaking of which, off to Day 2, tables redrawn, 207 left...
15 minute breaks every 90 min., so keep your comments succinct!
noob goldberg wrote:
And it is good fiction, in the same way Greek Ferry Schedules are works of fiction.
noob:
I'm not a Krugman fan particularly, but I do think that his op-ed today a clearly written description of a policy failing - which also affects Obama's policy objectives in other areas.
sportsfan: I think Krugman believes that Obama didn't push hard enough for a larger stimulus/reform. Myself, I don't know.
I'm a bit surprised at your responses. The government's (was/is) gonna do SOMETHING. Should that something largely benefit the bankers or the citizens? Has an opportunity to head off a larger crisis been missed or would it be better (as I sense some belive here) to have wholesale change via an economic disaster? (because nothings really gonna change until there's blood in the streets).
The problem with him and the Obama team along with most of the mainstream economists is that all of their solutions are predicated on the assumption that the economy was at a sustainable level prior to the financial melt down.
This was sort of the point Edmunds (nobel laureate in economics) was making in the FT piece the other day. Both the Keynesians and the neo-classicists are wrong with their recommendations because this IS NOT a business cycle event. It is a large scale credit, systemic event and calls for non-traditional thinking. He didn't really prescribe his own solution, just pointed out that most of the economic theory debates were totally misguided to begin with.
I'd like to see some blood before we toss a couple tril into the fire.
Krugman sounds way too much like Cheney to me.
Deficits don't matter
I'm of the opinion it all matters.
Also, keep in mind this recession is coinciding with the terminal decline of the US as a world power. That alone puts us in uncharted territory.
SNAFU wrote:
I will not eat or drink out of anything made in China much less eat anything made in China. If you really want to cut your spending set a goal of not buying anything made in China. It really does work wonders.
Eric wrote:
THAT is it in a nutshell............they got the big chip-stack, most of it is in their pockets and we don't have a clue as to the amount.
we don't have a clue as to the amount.
Since they've got you covered, and you can't go into your pocket, whatever they have in the printing press is irrelevant.
"When I visit Chinese owned grocery stores, I stay away from all that is farmed and grown in China, especially the farm raised fish!"
I don't want to give away all the secrets to my virility, good looks and even keeled manner when posting on CR.
But I'll let you in on part of my regimen. Melamine. Whenever I'm finding myself lacking in any of the above I nice steamed catfish (farmed of course from China, not wild) always does the trick.
Hmmmmm!
Daveinsv- I think you are missing the bigger story. Tech is supposed to be the leading edge of the economy. Not all parts of the economy will recover at the same rate as the average growth of the economy. One would assume that the leading edges should do substantially better. If all they can muster is incrementally better not so good. Plus they are also the sector that most benefits from expansion overseas. So they could better without it saying much about the health of the US economy.
crazyv - great post full of good, solid ideas. Probably why it'll never happen.
Jackrabbit wrote:
Oh, just ignore me. I'm being snarky because I have many people in and out of my office and I don't have the luxury of having the time to write out anything of substance. And I also haven't had the chance to read his op-ed today, so I'm doubly ignorant.
For political reasons the government had to do something. But unless Krugman is explicitly arguing in favour of dismantling TBTF banks, I can't take much else he says seriously.
Black Star Ranch wrote:
Not to mention the bazooka.
Good Luck......
Mp- +10 on ark quote...
fwiw-auto credit application numbers up to date in Nov. are trending below last month and september
Try and buy canned or bottled fruit @ the supermarket that isn't from China, you'll see a little bit from the Philippines and Thailand, but not much from the U.S. of A.
Thanks for the thoughtful answer. I agree with on first point. We need a Canada style Health system.
That imo is unworkable; easier to implement Indian like policies: make it here, sell it here; otherwise 100% duty.
Don't know enough about tax systems to comment.
Chainsaw wrote:
Well, FWIW I am convinced the credit event is also a symptom. This is a "current account & the realization that the USG's fiscal position is melting down" related systemic collapse manifesting itself in all sorts of dislocations. More govt sspending is only going to worsen the problems.
Actually Christine Romer had a pretty good article a long while back on why they chose the stimulus level they chose. Basically they knew they needed more but were well aware of the affect on the bond market and world financial psyche if they came out with an amount over a trillion.
This is why they have to do the drip-drip method.
crazyv wrote:
If anyone in the USA could get traction on this issue, you would have a very strong advocate with your northern neighbour. In can personally guarantee that a few politically valuable industries in Canada would push very hard on the government for that regulatory equivalency. And I would become a very strong advocate.
Bearly,
I agree 100%
That DOW 10K hat is getting worn out today. Need a wireless electronic banner hat.
So, Austrians were directly responsible for 2 world wars and 1 great depression, and you are going to follow them as far as economics go?
Yep, my mantra is everywhere but China.
I will not bite my nose of to spite my face, but if I have an alternative of equal
or better quality, even if it costs a few buck more, I'll buy the alternative.
Back to work.