This bit of new is a yawn. I've been penciling a second stimulus for 8 months now. The timing and the size remains unclear: probably too little, too late.
It sounds like we already have the dumbest next "stimulus" ever - the home buyer tax credit extension. Hopefully this next proposal won't include the equally dumb $250 payment to seniors ...
I'll withhold judgment until I see the proposals. There might be some further infrastructure investments that make sense (and would lower the construction worked unemployment rate), and perhaps some aid to states (I need to see the details). Like everyone - I'm afraid more stimulus means more waste.
No, this is no TARP. I think we can take our time spending this money (so long as it gets spent before the midterm-election and focused on districts up for grabs.)
Nemo, the size has not been mentioned and I doubt it would be anywhere near as big at the first one. The problem with the first one was that it was too small and unfocused to really get the job done right. My guess in Stimpack II is in the $250 B range.
Nope, he mentioned a run-up from 7 to 34 in 6 months. 6 months ago, AIG was at 27, split-adjusted. Anyway, AIG will be volatile because the US's 79% doesn't trade daily.
I've got it. The problem is unemployment, especially in the cities, right?
So what we need to do is to relocate skilled urban labor into the countryside and give them jobs farming. We could call it... I dunno... The "Great Leap Forward" or something.
So what we need to do is to relocate skilled urban labor into the countryside and give them jobs farming. We could call it... I dunno... The "Great Leap Forward" or something.
Since no stimulus means things get worse, human misery increases, more and more people flat-out dying or going into existential tailspins they'll never pull out of in this life -- go ahead and spend the money. Wisely. On something that pays back. Throw a ton of money at energy. Build plants; employ people to make energy at less cost than buying it from foreign powers who don't like us. Just spend it on something that pays back, not supporting dead banks and dead houses.
If they don't spend the money, there's revolution coming. There's nothing else out there to help tens of millions of economically impaired people lead a secure -- not even comfortable -- life. Personally I think we'll come close but only no one who really thinks about it teases the tiger and says "shut off the money and see what happens."
Something tells me it will be "more of the same". Most governments and large institutions only know the "more of the same" story because that's what is the least risk to the people running the organizations.
I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm going to make a huge HUGE prediction. You can quote me on this. The next stimulus will be "more of the same". (call it intuition, maybe a gift I have).
Infrastructure spending is what many in the Commentariat proposed over a year ago, when we saw that this sucker was going down. Stimulus needs to be generative - like increasing transportation capacity or funding technological innovation. It's investing for growth, not for a fixed return.
At the risk of beating a dead horse. Its unconscionable to keep spending money borrowed from Hu (our grandkids that’s who Hu) to spend wastefully now that has no productive future gain. The only acceptable borrowing from the future should benefit the same said future. I.e. infrastructure, research, etc.. I’m far too sick and tired of this to even be enraged anymore. I’ve capitulated on our country. I fold.
A key lesson Roosevelt learnt from the Hoover debacle was that there needs to activity and not government passivity. People were desperate for something to happen, anything that gave them some hope. We will see much more "stimulus" and activity otherwise there will be unrest. It is simply inevitable.
If things don't improve soon then the RNC will have to pull out of their hat shockingly similar talk as a frightened population is not a good match for their current message.
Must. Resist. Pull. Of. Mullet. Field!! Damn, the sheer tight shorts with Depends are really getting to me. It's like they have a fashion checklist before they leave the house: mullet, rat tail, inappropriate t-shirt, horrible tats, condom-tight shorts or pj bottoms, crocs or combat boots. Check, check, check.
I don't think we should stimulate anything anymore. Some things should not be made. They should not be worn. They should not exist even in fantasy . Maybe we should put contraceptives in the water.
The pitch for more money...
As the PTB 'fear factor' sales pitch escalates, there comes a time when the public (marks) have lost almost everything (won't cool down) and are in all kinds of debt...and no longer believes the 'merchant of fear' negative sales pitch selling over-priced, failed products and 'services'.
This is when MoF and the Defenders of the Status Quo (more of the same) loses a majority of their buying 'customers' or at least their faith and good will...then as I said there's always the Hard Close and 'involuntary public investors' close...
NaRm, I haven't given up voting. I just throw my votes away on alternate tin foil hat marginalized third party candidates. Can someone please pass the hopium.
any stimulus must reward people who pay thier mortgage and rent on time etc..
Reward prudent homeowners who pay on time over last 2-3 years with the latest solar technology that employs millions pf people nationwide and begins the build out of a new power grid, make those people first in line so they can save pr spend that $200 a month usually spent on energy
Senior citizens should be able to invest in cd's like tip that earn 5%...if you tell people to invest for the future than scale back risk according to age, then you don't give those people the easy fixed investment that makes dollars and sense, why invest?
Renters who have paid on time with good credit get first dibs at home in foreclosure, before investor and special 30 yr rate plus dwnpyment for loan based off income..
Obama should let the markets tank, no one votes republican when they are worried they might be poor, only when they hope they will be rich, see election 2008. Obama will likely luck out, his stimulus will fail, and the masses will vote for the dems.
what kind of life do you think your grandchildren will have if they don't do it?
So, even tho we don't think the next Stimulus will do anything except provide a short term jobs bump (and a huge spike in stock & commodities speculation) we still need to do it for "the grand-children"? The grand-children are going to take some time to grow up? Do we have to do stimulus 3 & 4 & 5 & 30 & 50 just to keep going?
They're going to shoot all their fiscal bullets, and then be faced with bailing out the states, the FDIC, and the FHA. And of course Fannie and Freddie and Government Moters will all be back for more.
At some point somebody will pass a law to automatically adjust the debt ceiling, semi-annually.
But don't worry, nothing can threaten the status quo of the USA as debtor nation, living high on the hog, while fighting wars across the world.
barfly, do they have any other choice but to default. Its either that or inflate, which is just defaulting by another name. I just hope that the SHTF soon enough that those that caused the worst of it can hopefully be caught in their own shit storm. Hopefully I'll be on a sailboat somewhere else by then. Going all amoral now and getting my own and checking out. Thanks for all the fish.
what kind of life do you think your grandchildren will have if they don't do it?
One that doesn't include servicing a debt with the first 20% of their wages, one in which this generation bit the bullet and accepted the consequences of voting themselves the best of everything and passing the check on to their kids, one in which they can't have the same "best of everything" because the taxes they pay are covering debts incurred before they were born.
and, for the umpteenth time, let me remind the Kommentariat that blindly throwing money at "construction" from high atop a federal tower onto the greasy local pols below hasn't exactly been a winning tactic for our friends in the Greater East-Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere in the past 15 years. And, once again, I recommend reading "Dogs and Demons".
The Children Of The Future (Steve Miller's 1st album)
What'll happen to the children...'if they don't do it.' ( more squid stimulus aka food)
They'll be in less debt!
History shows that the most efficient way to reduce debt is to increase spending. Virtually a law of physics. Ergo, we must re-stimulate. (No wonder those advisors get paid so much. Positively brilliant.)
Hopefully this next proposal won't include the equally dumb $250 payment to seniors
You wouldn't say that if you were 74, and lived in a freezing trailer in VT, with the winter coming on and the plywood for the pot belly stove running low.
Disclaimer: I’m for the second stimulus to hasten the end. Not because I think it will "work". I want a huge HUGE stimulus too. Nothing half-way. Just nationalize the state budgets, and companies that wants to get out of the anxiety of the "free-market" - nationalize them, pension fund - all the money they want, at 0%, and any GSE that want's more cash - give 'em all they want.
Kudlow - shorting the dollar in the carry trade...'doesn't sound like an American Story...'
In other CNBC new, Paul V walks out on interview date with Maria...shocking...but good for ratings?
The government has been in debt since the Revolutionary War. Each succeeding generation has continued to live, more or less, just fine. What I never hear talked about here is taxing the shit out of the assholes who have all the money.
U.S. consumers are expected to buy only between 10 million and 10.5 million cars and light trucks this year, well below the pre-recession peak near 17 million hit in 2005. That level may never be seen again, said Earl Hesterberg, CEO of Group 1 Automotive Inc., a leading U.S. auto dealer group
"The U.S. and probably the U.K. are the two classic examples where we encouraged consumers to take out debt and you ended up with asset inflation that was non-sustainable, and we're suffering from it now," O'Donnell said. "The lesson that every government has to learn is you've got to be careful with debt. Not only your own debt, but the citizens'."
Senior citizens should be able to invest in cd's like tip that earn 5%...if you tell people to invest for the future than scale back risk according to age, then you don't give those people the easy fixed investment that makes dollars and sense, why invest?
Right on. Why invest? And how can you spend?
Low interest rates are more anti-stimulative than Ben thinks.
Implement the grand porkulus phase 2 and cut taxes to 0.00% ! it's the only way ! Not like we have to worry about paying the money back or anything...
~splat
Yeah, yeah. Money only works if you believe in it. I know what the common wisdom is around here. That doesn't mean "nonexistent" money won't move mountains, properly managed.
I am thinking of taking some stimulus from the .gov to shore up the personal balance sheet.
I am starting to toy with the idea of re-enlisting. I do not know what hoops would be required to jump through and they may very well say oh no thanks maam we don' need no stinkin' 41 yr old women but I may just nose around and see what may turn up.
To paraphrase and re-phrase Ron White "Student Loans are Forevah"
CCLT, it is truly naïve to think that taxation of assets, aside from the easily-avoided estate tax, is on the table here. Jamie and Lloyd - the authors of every element of our domestic policy - have no intention of such a thing.
"Locke ‘Imprecise’ in Comments on Stimulus, His Spokesman Says
By Pimm Fox and Mark Drajem
Nov. 2 (Bloomberg) -- Commerce Secretary Gary Locke was being “imprecise” when he said President Barack Obama’s advisers are seriously considering proposing a second stimulus measure, his spokesman said today."
OT: Things seem to be setting up for another hedge fund redemption fire drill. November 15 is the deadline for requesting any money being redeemed from most hedge funds. They have to raise the cash by the end of the year. Of course, if they are all selling at the same time... just look at the period from Feb 9 to Mar 9 to Apr 9. A nice little V in the indexes for no apparent reason.
I am starting to toy with the idea of re-enlisting
It depends if you have specialist skills, I personally know two former Navy guys with pretty specialized skills, both in their 40's and both have been approached by recruiters over re-enlistment. One guy said his current salary was 4x what he could make in the services tho'
~splat
well, there is a mysterious highway called the '95' - legend says it goes to warmer places.
but, sure, why not take a policy that has utterly robbed everyone born after 1970 (and especially 1990) for the benefit of geezers and make it that much more ridiculous.
Cut all the porkulus crap and go straight to a planned economy. Have the govt. set production quotas, employment quotas etc. It'll save money in the long run. Just doing it piece meal as we are now just doesn't seem to be working too well.
~splat
They oughta dispense with these silly, ineffective half-measures and stick with what's really worked thus far: shoveling hundreds of billions of no-strings-attached dollars at the banks.
The increase in GDP for 3Q was mostly gov spending, C4C, FTHB credit. The real economy was flat at best. Main Street is in no position to pick up the slack yet (if ever).
Unemployment will hit 10% very soon.
The market will head down again, wiping out those 301k balances.
My guess is we will get the WPA back. We get jobs, taxable income, people build stuff. We will probably get some other kinds of stimulas as well.
iPhones have been hot hot hot for a long time in China. You might as well gauge the popularity of a new DVD release by looking at the studio booked sales. I've no doubt some infintesimal number of iPhones were sold through the Apple Store but tht isn't how the story is slanted now is it?
"that was pretty much the heart of a debate this week in Washington between nuclear-power proponent Patrick Moore, co-chair of the Clean and Safe Energy Coalition, and nuclear-power opponent Arjun Makhijani, president of the Institute for Energy and Environmental Research.
The debate boiled down to the question: In its quest for lower-carbon sources of energy, does the U.S. want to become more like France?
Absolutely, said Dr. Moore, a co-founder of Greenpeace but now an outspoken nuclear-power supporter. “If France can get 80% of its power from nuclear plants, so can the U.S. Our initial goal should be to double nuclear power in the U.S. [to about 40% of electricity supply] then think about doubling it again.” If zero-emissions power sources are the goal, he said, remember that nuclear power provides 70% of clean power in the U.S., compared with about 5% from renewable energy.
What about the waste problem? “That’s a political, not a technical, problem,” Dr. Moore said, which he says France has solved. “The key is recycling [spent nuclear fuel.] We are 30 years behind France and Japan,” he said.
Dr. Makhijani, a nuclear physicist who’s equally outspoken about nuclear power’s drawbacks, said the last thing the U.S. should do is emulate France.
“They’ve turned the Normandy peninsula into a nuclear-waste repository” against lots of public opposition, he said. (More on that here.) France dumps more than 100 million gallons of radioactive waste into the ocean. Recycling spent fuel just leaves loads of plutonium around, raising nuclear proliferation fears, he added."
"Dr. Makhijani reiterated that “if nuclear power were attractive, Wall Street would be lining up to finance it.” Haaaahahahahahah. You'll never be able to use that line again.
The article says the aple store ain't selling iPhones. Not sure what's slanted about it. Slanted would be an article stating 11 iPhones sold in china. The article supports the assertion made in the comments section of that blog that Chinese are buying jail broken gray market iPhones.
What policy has the commentariat approved over the last 18 months? What, in hindsight, worked as planned or promised from our collective POV? What are the elected reps supposed to do that they haven't adequately proven they can not? The gameplan is to flood the world with liquidity and and since trickle down theory has never worked, why be surprised when the only solution feasible is to continue on the course started?
Imagine being in the middle of a bank robbery and you have an epiphany that this wasn't your wisest move. Do you just stop, apologize and back out the door slowly? No harm, no foul.
Full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes. Works in the movies.
++++
Bob Dobbs has a good essay regarding the commentariat. Tales from the Coast
@nova (homepage, profile) wrote on Mon, 11/2/2009 - 5:57 pm
Stimulus target spending for TARP II.
Why this country needs a viable 3rd party not 100% owned by Corporatocracy
Bad news - will take years to be viable... if ever
In the meantime assume crash positions and get a bunker well stocked with food and ammo.
They oughta dispense with these silly, ineffective half-measures and stick with what's really worked thus far: shoveling hundreds of billions of no-strings-attached dollars at the banks.
Banks? Don't forget Joe Boomer planning to cash out on his half million dollar shack to pay his future retirement green fees and liver transplant costs.
Remember that the job of MSM is to get the public used to an idea or plan before the gov starts it. No suprises for J6P, lead him into the plan, let him get used to the idea.
Then when they announce it, well sure, we knew this was coming. Nothing new, no big deal.
Nov. 2 (Bloomberg) -- Commerce Secretary Gary Locke was “imprecise” when he said President Barack Obama’s advisers are considering a second stimulus measure, his spokesman said today.
"Early in 2003 France's first national energy debate was announced, in response to a "strong demand from the French people", 70% of whom had identified themselves as being poorly informed on energy questions. A poll had shown that 67% of people thought that environmental protection was the single most important energy policy goal. However, 58% thought that nuclear power caused climate change while only 46% thought that coal burning did so. "
Bob Dobbs has a good essay regarding the commentariat.
Bob Dobbs wrote:
In the meantime, too much doom can be hazardous to your mental health. Accept that things will change. Accept that there will be pain.
This topic of "too much doom" has come up on quite a few occasions, but I believe the general response to it has been that the doom is more catharsis and humor than it is gloom and depression. The argument has been that the people who are really depressed are not posting here. They are paralyzed by what they consider the End of Times. This EoT could easily be becoming homeless or losing a loved one to their own pit of depression. However for the Commentariat, it seems to me to be more biting humor, satire, and yes, b^^ching. Catharsis is what it is. It is different everyone.
.
Also, I know that some people have varying degrees of coping. Just like not everyone can run a 3.9 40 yd dash even with all the training, equipment, and determination in the world, there are people who have an almost unrelenting ability to be hit in the face by doom and gloom and keep their perspective and poise. I have a friend who literally shuts down from the brain up if I suggest that the local/county government could have severe funding problems for education. The conversation stops if you even hint that teachers could be hit in the wallet if the problem continues down this path. On the other hand, there are people who could easily talk about their parents or children eating dirt along side themselves and could discuss it with a level of civility that is eery.
.
FD: I'm a natural disdainer. Happy sunshine will drive me batsh^t crazy long before reading about the latest events in Detroit.
I've asked this before... Does anybody know how big the deficit is when you add in all these extensions to the original programs? A couple dozen billion here, a hundred billion there...
In his two-and-a-half-year stint as a banker, Mr. Emanuel — who once trained as a ballet dancer and was briefly a civilian volunteer on an Israeli military base — made $16.2 million, according to Congressional disclosures.
I was away from blogging today because I attended a meeting at the US Treasury Department in Washington with senior Treasury officials and a number of other bloggers including Marginal Revolution, Interfluidity, Kid Dynamite’s World, Naked Capitalism, Financial Armageddon, Accrued Interest, and Aleph.
Fresh doom from this morning. From a serial novel I have been writing online...
"Yep, I'm a fed. When did that equal a death penalty in America? Yeah, we fucked up some." He paused "Maybe a lot. Still it's your government and it's trying to help you." He was going to go on but Max tapped him on the head hard enough for it to hurt. "Shut up. You want to live? We can work something out...maybe." He walked around so he could face him "Tell us why you are here Dalton. Tell us everything."
Well the Goarmy site locked my record since I am prior service, I have to talke to the recruiter in person and they will see if there is anything for me.
I dont want to be a 98G wahhh. I was thinking 92G--cook for a new career
Although I did make it as far as the little question section and some other MOS had come up to fit my personality that I had been looking at as well as the cook job---Medical lab tech, radiology tech and patient specialist. The cook job had a kick butt enlitsment bonus though ah well.
"Comrade Rally Monkey (homepage, profile) wrote on Mon, 11/2/2009 - 6:50 pm
reply ignore user
AP sources: House health bill totals $1.2 trillion
I vote for us to Borrow these funds!
All agreed? say aye"
AP sources: House health bill totals $1.2 trillion
I vote for us to Borrow these funds!
All agreed? say aye
I think we'll have a filegate surprise. you see it turns out during the high inflation days of the Carter Administration they printed up $1.2 trillion as a precaution. By a lucky stroke this was actually accounted for in the budget but the cash was never circulated. That money will start paying for helthcare immediately and last right through the day after the mid-term elections. Because it is already accounted for it won't be inflationary but it will strangely enough fight deflation and leave your breath minty fresh.
sorry if already posted.
gee whiz! these guys sure didn't get the memo about the skyrocketing near-term risk of widespread cannibalism and other, more mundane, things that happen when teotwawki hits. Australia Will Raise Key Rate to at Least 3.5% (Update2) - Bloomberg.com
"Nov. 3 (Bloomberg) -- Australia’s central bank will raise its benchmark interest rate today by at least a quarter percentage point, the second increase in four weeks, amid signs the economy is strengthening, economists and traders say."
It started as a joking comment but then sort of evolved into "hmmm, I wonder what is out there in the great OD Green world for me?" So I have been looking a bit tonite to see and get a small idea.
I rephrased Ron White in a post above somewhere that "student loans are forevah"
A garnishment came through for some very old student loans. I guess they are going to prove to me I am not the turnip I think I am.
Hooboy here is an unintended consequence that all those wage do-gooders never thought of----I did not know this but for income below poverty line they do not/can not garnish wages. the new minimum wage law here in VA that started in JUly puts a single parent with one dependent a smidge above poverty line soooooooo all I can wish is some alcohol with that garnish. How many other lower income schmoos like me are going to get ganked?
Dont get me wrong, I owe the money, and have paid sporadically over the years as extra became available, and will continue working at current job to pay them off, but the silly comment about "hey wont the army pay off old loans" made the old brain cell go hmmmmm but it seems that prior service can be a bit sticky.
AIG will be volatile because the US's 79% doesn't trade daily...
I guess I missed a few things, since I posted that, but negative earnings have always interested me! I never can understand why some earnings are N/A but yet AIG is negative 600+ ... I guess they're working on the multi-century plan for current shareholders and hoping that in the year 5526, women will survive... YouTube - Zager And Evans - In The Year 2525
Senior citizens should be able to invest in cd's like tip that earn 5%
I would like to see Government debt with the following characteristics.
1. Relatively small unit of investment, maybe $100 increments.
2. Issued for life of buyer, or 50 years if purchased corporately. (Maybe allow ONE transfer, but only from personal owner to partner on death/divorce.)
3. Redeemable at will on 7 days' notice.
4. Interest (but NOT principal) indexed to CPI.
OK, CPI manipulation is an issue but this will still give a relatively stable income stream.
I think an initial interest rate of 4%, and perhaps even a bit less, would be sufficient to allow retirees to avoid going after risky assets. I know my own mother would be very interested in such a security.
You can decipher the Stimulus Ieak all you want, but every day it just looks like the Obama Administration is a bunch of bumbling fools on anything economic. Even clueless Americans are figuring it out. I don't know if they will pass any version of health care reform or not. But you can't blame Americans for being wary of trusting anything big-ticket to these morons.
It's hard to tell who is the biggest economic clown. Geithner probably belongs on top the list, but Obama really isn't far behind. The only difference between them is that Obama can fake what he doesn't know better. It's getting to be a sad circus.
.....did I overhear someone stating they'd received a student loan bill from a past life? I just received one like that in the mail last week. It was a small amount (a couple grand) that was paid to my son when he attended college some 20-years ago. I had never heard from them prior to this. I don't know if I should just ignore it, which is SOP, or strike up a dialog and tell them what they can do with this piece of paper after they've rolled it up in a cylindrical shape............I'll die before they'll collect.....do I have any "takers"?
Did you see all the doomy stories about wheat prices over the weekend, based on a 1-week pullback and some rumors of vast bumper crops in the midwest? Somebody was pumping that one hard. Wheat prices were up 3+% today.
China is so desperate for a decent wheat crop out of their drought that they massively seeded the clouds in the north. Then, a cold front came in and it snowed buckets in northern China today, two months ahead of schedule. You mess with mother nature, and food always wins.
Oh, I forgot. China's been messing with mother nature awhile now.
Gold in the night session at 1065. At 1085-95, that's a 10% return in 2 months for those who followed me in at the 985-995 low. Were you reading Mish's blog at the time, you would have seen my real time entry statements. I promised I'd not lie at the game of making money, unlike most of the touts who, btw, sell their services. Livermore said, "Be patient." Not bad.
The breakaway gap today is real. It must be watched carefully. The market is moving up with a broken ankle. It's exceedingly rare for gaps of this size, $10, to exist more than a few days. But meanwhile, it's 10% or bust. Very kewl, and very well deserved if I may be ever so humble.
Here's a partial list of senators voting against Geithner. The Ticker is missing one name; we'll get it tomorrow when the official roll comes out:.... I'm a little amazed that Ted Kennedy didn't vote for him...
Just like Corona is Beer for Mexicans! I wonder if Americans are the only people who actually drink their own over-hyped, poor quality domestic beer...
I'm with NaRM... let's see a BIG friggin' stimulus package; you know, something that would send PK into orgasmic fits. Oh, and let's pair that with UUHC -- Universal Unlimited Health Care. Let's hang a nice round number on it, say, like $5T or so.
If that doesn't solve all our problems immediately I don't know what will. [Of course, the solution won't be what they're expecting.]
Actually, Mexican immigrants love their Tecate, so that would be a 'no'.
Euros seem to love Bud, and Americans seem to love Heiny more than Spaten, so I would imagine that love of relatively crap beer is something that unites the brotherhood of man.
In a floor speech,Sen Tom Harkin of Iowa said, ''How can Mr. Geithner speak with any credibility and authority as America's chief tax enforcement officer?''
that love of relatively crap beer is something that unites the brotherhood of man.
I prefer microbrews and Tsing Tsao personally, but I won't turn down a Kiren if offered. I'd drink Milwaukee's Best before I drink Bud. Might as well save some USDs...
Like "goin' giggin'"? I guess it works. Of course, there isn't anything amusing about a man putting his pointer where it doesn't belong. Kinda the history of man...
The US is too far gone for Main Street to bring us back, at least for a very long time.
The Fed is proping up everything at this point, but it won't hold forever.
It's been a few cwazy daze in the commodities pitz including glod and silber. I wouldn't make anything of it until/unless pattern emerges. Last July natgas was over $12. Today it dropped 20¢ decisively under $5. Lumber is up 10% in three sessions. Feel free to make up all kinds of macro or trading or wave or chart theories but don't discard the possibility that the herd is just confused.
Well Nova very little is likely to come of it but I figure the enlistment age cutoff is 42 so if there are any screamin'-cant-pass-'em-up deals I should find out now while im just sort of old rahter than past the official old cutoff.
I also have to admit that fielding that joke comment earlier today about joining up and reading that article MP posted about the older man joining for health insurance....i started thinking that I should gather the data.
Black star ranch---id say open the dialog. Honestly they really are forevah, evn more so than those darn diamonds.
" "Hopefully this next proposal won't include the equally dumb $250 payment to seniors ..."
Why would that be dumb?
--- a senior "
Because there alternatives expenditures which are so much better--for a mere 10,000 of these $250 payments you can get a $2,500,000 bonus for a banker.
If I knew that, I wouldn't have sold my own house in 2004. I thought it was ridiculously overpriced then and prices have since gone up maybe 40%.
My mother went to an auction weekend before last, and a 40 year old 1200sqft house converted into a 2/1 plus a 1/1 (so obviously both are SMALL) went for $613K. Gross combined rental return for the two units would be about $2500pcm in that area.
Low-end wages are higher in dollar terms here than in the US, but high-end wages are lower, so we're more or less comparing apples with apples.
I can think of a couple of factors:
1. The government stimulus here for first-time buyers makes your tax credit look paltry. It's of the order of $20K as a straight gift.
2. NO Capital Gains tax on resale of principal residence (but no tax deduction for mortgage interest).
3. Landlords can claim interest as a deduction, along with the usual expenses. They can in fact offset losses on investment properties against any other income, and so many do that the private rental sector in Australia runs at an overall (and growing) loss for tax purposes. Investment assets held for more than 12 months only have half the capital gain treated as taxable income, so RE is often used to convert today's taxable income into tomorrow's 50%-taxable capital gains.
4. Last but by no means least, Australia has had higher inflation than the US for almost all of the last 50 years, and the meme of letting inflation reduce the real value of your mortgage is very, very strong.
"Stimulus" has become a bad word, like "tax". Why don't they just say they want to spend $700 billion on things the public wants and needs which the market is not providing (make-work jobs are not such a thing).
My package is its own stimulus.
I just hope this stimulus has as much bipartisan support as the last one did.
Say it aint so Cr, Say it aint so...
This bit of new is a yawn. I've been penciling a second stimulus for 8 months now. The timing and the size remains unclear: probably too little, too late.
Ooooohh! A double
Will this package (not Nemo's) take effect right about time for the 2010 elections?
So let me get this straight. The crisis has passed, the world is saved, the recovery is underway...
...and we need to spend another $700 billion pronto.
It is almost as though they do not believe the recovery is as strong as they say it is.
Heroin is like that.
state governments need bailout
Krugman is going to be even more insufferable.
It sounds like we already have the dumbest next "stimulus" ever - the home buyer tax credit extension. Hopefully this next proposal won't include the equally dumb $250 payment to seniors ...
I'll withhold judgment until I see the proposals. There might be some further infrastructure investments that make sense (and would lower the construction worked unemployment rate), and perhaps some aid to states (I need to see the details). Like everyone - I'm afraid more stimulus means more waste.
best to all
Nemo wrote:
No, this is no TARP. I think we can take our time spending this money (so long as it gets spent before the midterm-election and focused on districts up for grabs.)
Nemo, the size has not been mentioned and I doubt it would be anywhere near as big at the first one. The problem with the first one was that it was too small and unfocused to really get the job done right. My guess in Stimpack II is in the $250 B range.
Obama is playing into the hands of the RNC. STIMx2 now is sure to be FAILx2 by mid-terms.
Heroin is like that. - RD
Since it's Fed shit, it's morphine.
not THIS, again! i'm tired of eating shit sandwiches...
of course, i guess it would be more accurately stated: hu's tired of shit sandwiches. the chinese are such suckers.
"Hopefully this next proposal won't include the equally dumb $250 payment to seniors ..."
Why would that be dumb?
--- a senior
Like I was basically saying with my PTB 'sales pitch' stuff...(bankrupted) Buyer Beware!
Size matters!
I think you meant methadone.
All of this spending is irrelevant until the day the dollar breaks down.
And when the levee breaks...
Nope, he mentioned a run-up from 7 to 34 in 6 months. 6 months ago, AIG was at 27, split-adjusted. Anyway, AIG will be volatile because the US's 79% doesn't trade daily.
Dirk van Dijk wrote:
curious how big does it have to be to solve the problem of a consumer living beyond their means and in debt beyond the ability to service it..
pavel.chichikov wrote:
because viagara doesn't have much of a stimulating effect on a macro scale.
I've got it. The problem is unemployment, especially in the cities, right?
So what we need to do is to relocate skilled urban labor into the countryside and give them jobs farming. We could call it... I dunno... The "Great Leap Forward" or something.
Pretty soon the rotting corpse won't be able to be 'juiced' anymore...
we need to spend another $700 billion pronto.
We need to continue to repave the roads to nowhere. /scarcasm
May as well spend it. Ummm, I mean print it. It's just paper and ink. or electrons.
Nemo wrote:
QOTD
If one 1x
couldn't carry the economy on its bck what makes them think 1.3x
can carry more? 1/3rd 
is worse than no 
at all.
But how many times did Frankenstein return from a jolt of juice?
crazyv wrote:
So big that it dwarfs the amount that the consumer's owe. REALLY big. I'm talkin' HUGE.
Slightly OT but Ellen Brown outlines a solution to the banking crisis.
Ellen Hodgson Brown: Cutting Wall Street Out
Nah, morphine. Federally controlled, gives you a real high, administered by authoritative assholes who don't give a shit if you get addicted.
Since no stimulus means things get worse, human misery increases, more and more people flat-out dying or going into existential tailspins they'll never pull out of in this life -- go ahead and spend the money. Wisely. On something that pays back. Throw a ton of money at energy. Build plants; employ people to make energy at less cost than buying it from foreign powers who don't like us. Just spend it on something that pays back, not supporting dead banks and dead houses.
If they don't spend the money, there's revolution coming. There's nothing else out there to help tens of millions of economically impaired people lead a secure -- not even comfortable -- life. Personally I think we'll come close but only no one who really thinks about it teases the tiger and says "shut off the money and see what happens."
+100
Oh. My. Lawd.
How Do You Like It? | www.peopleofwalmart.com
The 10% unemployment rate is the 'fear factor' needed for the close...
What money?
I thought the party line was to not call it stimulus any more?
If you're honest, work hard, and save, you too can have the government piss away your life savings.
Bob Dobbs wrote:
Something tells me it will be "more of the same". Most governments and large institutions only know the "more of the same" story because that's what is the least risk to the people running the organizations.
I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm going to make a huge HUGE prediction. You can quote me on this. The next stimulus will be "more of the same". (call it intuition, maybe a gift I have).
Yancey Ward wrote:
How about "fluffing"?
Nemo wrote:
Hu's money?
Well, they tried renaming it "Five-Year Plan" or "Cultural Revolution", but eventually they went back to "stimulus".
Infrastructure spending is what many in the Commentariat proposed over a year ago, when we saw that this sucker was going down. Stimulus needs to be generative - like increasing transportation capacity or funding technological innovation. It's investing for growth, not for a fixed return.
Can't drag yourself away, scone?
It's like watching an accident on the side of the road, isn't it. Or train wreck.
merchants of fear wrote:
Right! They're expecting UE to peak next year, hence the need to look like they're doing something, even if the end result is giving more to
Financed on the backs of our grandchildren... WTF are we doing electing these clowns?
LMAO!! Wish I had thought of that one!
Yancey Ward wrote:
Sometimes that internet porn addiction comes in handy
At the risk of beating a dead horse. Its unconscionable to keep spending money borrowed from Hu (our grandkids that’s who Hu) to spend wastefully now that has no productive future gain. The only acceptable borrowing from the future should benefit the same said future. I.e. infrastructure, research, etc.. I’m far too sick and tired of this to even be enraged anymore. I’ve capitulated on our country. I fold.
If we just run a new stimulus package per QTR then GDP will just continue to grow ! The downside it means the economy is just govt. make-work.
~splat
The Wheelman wrote:
Is there an alternative? Only got two choices: Same clown different circus. Different clowns same circus.
I think (as mp mentioned) each additional stimulus has a smaller and smaller multiplier....
Soon these will be below 1.0..... Then its an absolute that we're throwing good money after bad....
.............
Financed on the backs of our grandchildren...
what kind of life do you think your grandchildren will have if they don't do it?
fudge_hend wrote:
That only works if you have a conscious. TPTB are beyond that.
A key lesson Roosevelt learnt from the Hoover debacle was that there needs to activity and not government passivity. People were desperate for something to happen, anything that gave them some hope. We will see much more "stimulus" and activity otherwise there will be unrest. It is simply inevitable.
If things don't improve soon then the RNC will have to pull out of their hat shockingly similar talk as a frightened population is not a good match for their current message.
One of their own choosing, not ours. We've already spent their future. We've sold them into indentured servitude.
Rob Dawg wrote:
+1
Even more so since he is probably right. I sure hope this one is less targeted at banks and bureaucrats and more so for jobs.
fudge_hend wrote:
I'm sensing.. ummm... rage. Until one stops voting, one cannot attain true political piece, Grasshopper.
RE: AIG split adjusted $1000/ a share in feb 2008 ,dropped to a low of 7 before bouncing to its present pathetic level
Can't drag yourself away, scone? - AB
Must. Resist. Pull. Of. Mullet. Field!! Damn, the sheer tight shorts with Depends are really getting to me. It's like they have a fashion checklist before they leave the house: mullet, rat tail, inappropriate t-shirt, horrible tats, condom-tight shorts or pj bottoms, crocs or combat boots. Check, check, check.
I don't think we should stimulate anything anymore. Some things should not be made. They should not be worn. They should not exist even in fantasy . Maybe we should put contraceptives in the water.
The pitch for more money...
As the PTB 'fear factor' sales pitch escalates, there comes a time when the public (marks) have lost almost everything (won't cool down) and are in all kinds of debt...and no longer believes the 'merchant of fear' negative sales pitch selling over-priced, failed products and 'services'.
This is when MoF and the Defenders of the Status Quo (more of the same) loses a majority of their buying 'customers' or at least their faith and good will...then as I said there's always the Hard Close and 'involuntary public investors' close...
NaRm, I haven't given up voting. I just throw my votes away on alternate tin foil hat marginalized third party candidates. Can someone please pass the hopium.
any stimulus must reward people who pay thier mortgage and rent on time etc..
Reward prudent homeowners who pay on time over last 2-3 years with the latest solar technology that employs millions pf people nationwide and begins the build out of a new power grid, make those people first in line so they can save pr spend that $200 a month usually spent on energy
Senior citizens should be able to invest in cd's like tip that earn 5%...if you tell people to invest for the future than scale back risk according to age, then you don't give those people the easy fixed investment that makes dollars and sense, why invest?
Renters who have paid on time with good credit get first dibs at home in foreclosure, before investor and special 30 yr rate plus dwnpyment for loan based off income..
"Nemo wrote:
What money?
Hu's money?"
Hu flung poo?
Is that Cantonese?
One of their own choosing, not ours.
they'll still have a choice. It will be their world then, and we'll be powerless to prevent them from doing whatever they want, including defaulting.
Obama should let the markets tank, no one votes republican when they are worried they might be poor, only when they hope they will be rich, see election 2008. Obama will likely luck out, his stimulus will fail, and the masses will vote for the dems.
barfly wrote:
So, even tho we don't think the next Stimulus will do anything except provide a short term jobs bump (and a huge spike in stock & commodities speculation) we still need to do it for "the grand-children"? The grand-children are going to take some time to grow up? Do we have to do stimulus 3 & 4 & 5 & 30 & 50 just to keep going?
They're going to shoot all their fiscal bullets, and then be faced with bailing out the states, the FDIC, and the FHA. And of course Fannie and Freddie and Government Moters will all be back for more.
At some point somebody will pass a law to automatically adjust the debt ceiling, semi-annually.
But don't worry, nothing can threaten the status quo of the USA as debtor nation, living high on the hog, while fighting wars across the world.
Maybe we should put contraceptives in the water.
...and the Twinkies, and the cheetos, and the soda, and the beer, and the corndogs...
barfly, do they have any other choice but to default. Its either that or inflate, which is just defaulting by another name. I just hope that the SHTF soon enough that those that caused the worst of it can hopefully be caught in their own shit storm. Hopefully I'll be on a sailboat somewhere else by then. Going all amoral now and getting my own and checking out. Thanks for all the fish.
barfly wrote:
One that doesn't include servicing a debt with the first 20% of their wages, one in which this generation bit the bullet and accepted the consequences of voting themselves the best of everything and passing the check on to their kids, one in which they can't have the same "best of everything" because the taxes they pay are covering debts incurred before they were born.
Yep. Clowns to left of me, clowns to the right.
and, for the umpteenth time, let me remind the Kommentariat that blindly throwing money at "construction" from high atop a federal tower onto the greasy local pols below hasn't exactly been a winning tactic for our friends in the Greater East-Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere in the past 15 years. And, once again, I recommend reading "Dogs and Demons".
Welcome to the US of BK.
Ah! Food! Finally!
TTFN
The Children Of The Future (Steve Miller's 1st album)
What'll happen to the children...'if they don't do it.' ( more squid stimulus aka food)
They'll be in less debt!
"Jokers" to the right. One-hit wonders get little enough respect that you shouldn't add insult to injury.
Proof again If you love to piss money away and don't know how to make it yourself? Be a politician! Theft by taxation. Go Obama!
Continuous dollar printing for stimulus and bailouts...kinda makes you want to diversify your nations reserves...no matter what the cost of gold...
IMF sells gold to India's Reserve Bank - MarketWatch
Now I get the whole thing about anorexia.
I knew that, I took a bit of literary liberty with it.
Bloomberg: "Obama Says U.S. Must Reduce Debt"
History shows that the most efficient way to reduce debt is to increase spending. Virtually a law of physics. Ergo, we must re-stimulate. (No wonder those advisors get paid so much. Positively brilliant.)
You wouldn't say that if you were 74, and lived in a freezing trailer in VT, with the winter coming on and the plywood for the pot belly stove running low.
Disclaimer: I’m for the second stimulus to hasten the end. Not because I think it will "work". I want a huge HUGE stimulus too. Nothing half-way. Just nationalize the state budgets, and companies that wants to get out of the anxiety of the "free-market" - nationalize them, pension fund - all the money they want, at 0%, and any GSE that want's more cash - give 'em all they want.
I say: Bring it on!!!!
Hear, hear! Agree with every word.
Stimpack II should be devoted to building nuclear power generation capacity; and researching uses for spent fuel. Reprocessing, and stuff like that.
Kudlow - shorting the dollar in the carry trade...'doesn't sound like an American Story...'
In other CNBC new, Paul V walks out on interview date with Maria...shocking...but good for ratings?
The government has been in debt since the Revolutionary War. Each succeeding generation has continued to live, more or less, just fine. What I never hear talked about here is taxing the shit out of the assholes who have all the money.
I've argued that we should have be doing that for years..
~splat
I wouldn't read too much into the gold purchases.
Indians and gold are like Mikey and Life cereal.
Disgusting !
Denial of risk and peril
Grasping for salvation
Just what Gov Butch will do with all the highway funds in ID
barfly wrote:
I'm all for THAT. But the guys than own the politicians don't like it. So, that's not possible.
And to be really fair, I don't think it could described as a one-hit-wonder since Gerry Rafferty had a not insignificant solo career afterwards.
If Obama ain't stimulating us with his own money...it ain't his stimulus.
Credit troubles may keep U.S. auto demand low
http://europe.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091102/ANA05/311029790/1180&template=printart
U.S. consumers are expected to buy only between 10 million and 10.5 million cars and light trucks this year, well below the pre-recession peak near 17 million hit in 2005. That level may never be seen again, said Earl Hesterberg, CEO of Group 1 Automotive Inc., a leading U.S. auto dealer group
"The U.S. and probably the U.K. are the two classic examples where we encouraged consumers to take out debt and you ended up with asset inflation that was non-sustainable, and we're suffering from it now," O'Donnell said. "The lesson that every government has to learn is you've got to be careful with debt. Not only your own debt, but the citizens'."
credit score destruction has left its mark..
Right on. Why invest? And how can you spend?
Low interest rates are more anti-stimulative than Ben thinks.
Implement the grand porkulus phase 2 and cut taxes to 0.00% ! it's the only way ! Not like we have to worry about paying the money back or anything...
~splat
kidbuck wrote:
It's Hu's stimulus.
Nemo wrote:
Yeah, yeah. Money only works if you believe in it. I know what the common wisdom is around here. That doesn't mean "nonexistent" money won't move mountains, properly managed.
So Hu's got the money ?
Bob Dobbs wrote:
By Hu? Surely not by any government or corporate entity we've seen for the last 30 years.
"What I never hear talked about here is taxing the shit out of the assholes who have all the money."
then I wouldn't be able to prosper from the "trickle down a banksters leg onto my head" economy.
splat wrote:
I thought Yu had the money.
taxing the shit out of the assholes who have all the money
or
better known as the ttsootawhatm to rebuild america initiative
but Gerry without Joe is like George Michael without Andrew Ridgely!
I am thinking of taking some stimulus from the .gov to shore up the personal balance sheet.
I am starting to toy with the idea of re-enlisting. I do not know what hoops would be required to jump through and they may very well say oh no thanks maam we don' need no stinkin' 41 yr old women but I may just nose around and see what may turn up.
To paraphrase and re-phrase Ron White "Student Loans are Forevah"
Will the concept of the trickle down economy please be quietly put to sleep by a veterinarian and buried in a small box in someone's back yard.
~splat
Bob Dobbs wrote:
Actually, in re-reading this, there's something Zen like in that approach.
Perhaps, we could issue a new Nonexistent Currency.
CCLT, it is truly naïve to think that taxation of assets, aside from the easily-avoided estate tax, is on the table here. Jamie and Lloyd - the authors of every element of our domestic policy - have no intention of such a thing.
It was a trial balloon (filled with methane)
"Locke ‘Imprecise’ in Comments on Stimulus, His Spokesman Says
By Pimm Fox and Mark Drajem
Nov. 2 (Bloomberg) -- Commerce Secretary Gary Locke was being “imprecise” when he said President Barack Obama’s advisers are seriously considering proposing a second stimulus measure, his spokesman said today."
I thought Yu had the money.
I think He has the money
poic wrote:
HA! I bet they read all the negative comments on here, and immediately killed the idea.
OT: Things seem to be setting up for another hedge fund redemption fire drill. November 15 is the deadline for requesting any money being redeemed from most hedge funds. They have to raise the cash by the end of the year. Of course, if they are all selling at the same time... just look at the period from Feb 9 to Mar 9 to Apr 9. A nice little V in the indexes for no apparent reason.
It depends if you have specialist skills, I personally know two former Navy guys with pretty specialized skills, both in their 40's and both have been approached by recruiters over re-enlistment. One guy said his current salary was 4x what he could make in the services tho'
~splat
For instance, it may be WAY past consideration and into the realm of proposal.
"barfly (profile) wrote on Mon, 11/2/2009 - 5:29 pm
reply ignore user
I thought Yu had the money.
I think He has the money"
not Mei or Yu, but Wei
well, there is a mysterious highway called the '95' - legend says it goes to warmer places.
but, sure, why not take a policy that has utterly robbed everyone born after 1970 (and especially 1990) for the benefit of geezers and make it that much more ridiculous.
hhack- on board with your observation...I was having a disneyland moment...
These guys remind me of hackers on a software project. Throw a hundred turfs out there hoping one will stick.
Ok then. I guess we shutdown that proposal. Wonder what they run by us next?
Wen will it end ???
nades wrote:
for pete's sake. we've done nothing but stimulate for the past 10 years. it hasn't exactly worked out, now has it?
The first one worked so well....NOT!
Can't anyone do math anymore?
Cut all the porkulus crap and go straight to a planned economy. Have the govt. set production quotas, employment quotas etc. It'll save money in the long run. Just doing it piece meal as we are now just doesn't seem to be working too well.
~splat
If you were an exec that repriced options at the March lows, you sure as hell can do math!
Party on!
Looks like the iPhone is selling like hot cakes in china
iPhone Total Sales at China's Only Apple Store: 11
The only damned thing I care about is that I don't have the money.
They haven't even spent half of the first stimpac yet.
Recovery.gov
They oughta dispense with these silly, ineffective half-measures and stick with what's really worked thus far: shoveling hundreds of billions of no-strings-attached dollars at the banks.
poic wrote:
You've been viral market hijacked my friend. Just mouse over a few of the hot links in the "article."
The increase in GDP for 3Q was mostly gov spending, C4C, FTHB credit. The real economy was flat at best. Main Street is in no position to pick up the slack yet (if ever).
Unemployment will hit 10% very soon.
The market will head down again, wiping out those 301k balances.
My guess is we will get the WPA back. We get jobs, taxable income, people build stuff. We will probably get some other kinds of stimulas as well.
Welcome to the depression.
remember that assclown Timmy Geithner " tool for the
" sees dollar's reign lasting 'long time' 
Dawg, I read the article posted at modmyi.com and it appears to support the link.
iPhones have been hot hot hot for a long time in China. You might as well gauge the popularity of a new DVD release by looking at the studio booked sales. I've no doubt some infintesimal number of iPhones were sold through the Apple Store but tht isn't how the story is slanted now is it?
Stimulus target spending for TARP II.
CA
NJ
MI
OH
Whoever has a close election.
TARP is starting to reminding me of the Rocky movies. They just wouldn't go away for awhile
An informative nugget on nuclear power issues:
Should the US emulate France?
"that was pretty much the heart of a debate this week in Washington between nuclear-power proponent Patrick Moore, co-chair of the Clean and Safe Energy Coalition, and nuclear-power opponent Arjun Makhijani, president of the Institute for Energy and Environmental Research.
The debate boiled down to the question: In its quest for lower-carbon sources of energy, does the U.S. want to become more like France?
Absolutely, said Dr. Moore, a co-founder of Greenpeace but now an outspoken nuclear-power supporter. “If France can get 80% of its power from nuclear plants, so can the U.S. Our initial goal should be to double nuclear power in the U.S. [to about 40% of electricity supply] then think about doubling it again.” If zero-emissions power sources are the goal, he said, remember that nuclear power provides 70% of clean power in the U.S., compared with about 5% from renewable energy.
What about the waste problem? “That’s a political, not a technical, problem,” Dr. Moore said, which he says France has solved. “The key is recycling [spent nuclear fuel.] We are 30 years behind France and Japan,” he said.
Dr. Makhijani, a nuclear physicist who’s equally outspoken about nuclear power’s drawbacks, said the last thing the U.S. should do is emulate France.
“They’ve turned the Normandy peninsula into a nuclear-waste repository” against lots of public opposition, he said. (More on that here.) France dumps more than 100 million gallons of radioactive waste into the ocean. Recycling spent fuel just leaves loads of plutonium around, raising nuclear proliferation fears, he added."
"Dr. Makhijani reiterated that “if nuclear power were attractive, Wall Street would be lining up to finance it.”
Haaaahahahahahah. You'll never be able to use that line again.
The article says the aple store ain't selling iPhones. Not sure what's slanted about it. Slanted would be an article stating 11 iPhones sold in china. The article supports the assertion made in the comments section of that blog that Chinese are buying jail broken gray market iPhones.
What policy has the commentariat approved over the last 18 months? What, in hindsight, worked as planned or promised from our collective POV? What are the elected reps supposed to do that they haven't adequately proven they can not? The gameplan is to flood the world with liquidity and and since trickle down theory has never worked, why be surprised when the only solution feasible is to continue on the course started?
Imagine being in the middle of a bank robbery and you have an epiphany that this wasn't your wisest move. Do you just stop, apologize and back out the door slowly? No harm, no foul.
Full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes. Works in the movies.
++++
Bob Dobbs has a good essay regarding the commentariat.
Tales from the Coast
Why this country needs a viable 3rd party not 100% owned by Corporatocracy
Bad news - will take years to be viable... if ever
In the meantime assume crash positions and get a bunker well stocked with food and ammo.
Backpeddling? Spin control?
Locke Was ‘Imprecise’ in Comments on Second Stimulus (Update1) - Bloomberg.com
Well, remember that on Meet The Press, Timmay DID say that the real problem is that banks were not taking enough risk.
I guess that should have been "backpedaling"...?
Mook wrote:
Banks? Don't forget Joe Boomer planning to cash out on his half million dollar shack to pay his future retirement green fees and liver transplant costs.
Remember that the job of MSM is to get the public used to an idea or plan before the gov starts it. No suprises for J6P, lead him into the plan, let him get used to the idea.
Then when they announce it, well sure, we knew this was coming. Nothing new, no big deal.
ShortCourage wrote:
More like "Spin out of control."
All social engineering is preceded by verbal engineering.
retracted:
Nov. 2 (Bloomberg) -- Commerce Secretary Gary Locke was “imprecise” when he said President Barack Obama’s advisers are considering a second stimulus measure, his spokesman said today.
retracted or redacted
clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right and I'm stuck in the middle with Hu.
"nova (homepage, profile) wrote on Mon, 11/2/2009 - 6:11 pm
reply ignore user
All social engineering is preceded by verbal engineering."
that's not what I call arguments with my wife (:
One last re nuclear power:
"Early in 2003 France's first national energy debate was announced, in response to a "strong demand from the French people", 70% of whom had identified themselves as being poorly informed on energy questions. A poll had shown that 67% of people thought that environmental protection was the single most important energy policy goal. However, 58% thought that nuclear power caused climate change while only 46% thought that coal burning did so. "
How do you say D'oh! in French?
Later...
km4
or respun?
Externalized Costs wrote:
Bob Dobbs wrote:
This topic of "too much doom" has come up on quite a few occasions, but I believe the general response to it has been that the doom is more catharsis and humor than it is gloom and depression. The argument has been that the people who are really depressed are not posting here. They are paralyzed by what they consider the End of Times. This EoT could easily be becoming homeless or losing a loved one to their own pit of depression. However for the Commentariat, it seems to me to be more biting humor, satire, and yes, b^^ching. Catharsis is what it is. It is different everyone.
coping. Just like not everyone can run a 3.9 40 yd dash even with all the training, equipment, and determination in the world, there are people who have an almost unrelenting ability to be hit in the face by doom and gloom and keep their perspective and poise. I have a friend who literally shuts down from the brain up if I suggest that the local/county government could have severe funding problems for education. The conversation stops if you even hint that teachers could be hit in the wallet if the problem continues down this path. On the other hand, there are people who could easily talk about their parents or children eating dirt along side themselves and could discuss it with a level of civility that is eery.
sunshine will drive me batsh^t crazy long before reading about the latest events in Detroit.
.
Also, I know that some people have varying degrees of
.
FD: I'm a natural disdainer. Happy
Externalized Costs wrote:
So, Bob Dobbs writes a long, thoughtful post about the flora and fauna of the commentariat.
I read it twice, ran a search, but where is the pat on the back for Mr. Slippery?
No appreciation for my hackneyed, backwater world view. I kid, I kid
Interesting to zoom the focus back from the Doom Volcano through the eyes of someone else.
I gave up arguing poic. Why lose even if you win?
Obama aministration is probably backpedaling because they don't want to overshadow this:
Jobless benefits, home credit clear Senate hurdle - MarketWatch
I've asked this before... Does anybody know how big the deficit is when you add in all these extensions to the original programs? A couple dozen billion here, a hundred billion there...
Mr Slippery? MR SLIPPERY!
He went down
road and didn't mention mp....or me..:{
I bet Commerce Secretary Gary Locke was taken to the woodshed by Chief of Staff Rahm " hedge fund and fellow
afficiando" Emanuel
Rahm Emanuel, Former Investment Banker - DealBook Blog - NYTimes.com
If you name names, there will always be the nameless.
Gary: Manny, it's like small biz is dying!
Manny: Shut up.
Gary: If they don't get help - they are not going to make it.
Manny: Shut up
Gary: What is going to be done?
Manny
"nova (homepage, profile) wrote on Mon, 11/2/2009 - 6:18 pm
reply ignore user
I gave up arguing poic. Why lose even if you win?"
I've tried the whole "whatever, you're right" method. That tends to go down about as well as a fart in a church.
I have yet to find the fine line between arguing too little (you don't care) and too much (you're not listening)
lol
I'm gonna love seeing their budget projections if they request another stimulus.
In his two-and-a-half-year stint as a banker, Mr. Emanuel — who once trained as a ballet dancer and was briefly a civilian volunteer on an Israeli military base — made $16.2 million, according to Congressional disclosures.
Mr. Emanuel continues to have fans on Wall Street, judging from his campaign contributions.
6 degrees of GS
NYS Halts Mandatory Vaccines As Goldman Sachs Connection Exposed - Current News & Events | Forums at Chris Martenson
tg wrote:
Sadly, a neighbor of my parents is the local GS branch manager. I guess that means even I am only 2 degrees separated from
Double post?
My BIL is an economics professor in xxxxxxx and was on retainer to the
nova (homepage, profile) wrote on Mon, 11/2/2009 - 6:29 pm
reply ignore user
My BIL is an economics professor in xxxxxxx and was on retainer to the
I presume he's persona non grata at your house
/just joking
nova wrote:
Professor in porn? I've heard of hairy plumbers coming to lay some pipe, but I don't think I've seen a video of an economics professor yet...
tummy rumbling...
is the
big enough to make calimari for all the CR'ers? Would we all get food poisoning leading to projectile vomiting? Would it cause 24-hr diarrhea?
poic,
In 26 years our total conversation would amount to 3 paragraphs. Shall we say the social distance is an abyss for him...
nova wrote:
I presume at dinner he passes on the calamari for loyalty reasons?
If a jobless recovery is OK with the Banksters why do we need another stimulus?
responding to
steelhead's idea and link at 455
ive been screaming from the rooftops
end the fed reserve and open up
a bank of the united states of america
and steelheads link reinforces that point
north dakota the only state that has a truly "state" bank is in the best shape of almost all in the lower 48
Ellen Hodgson Brown: Cutting Wall Street Out
---btw for all talking about hu and the money
hu s on first
(abbott and costello) we all need the laugh
YouTube - Who's on first?
Whether this guy's right about another stimulus or not, he's helping send gold up near it's all-time high again.
Currently at $1065, about a buck shy of its ATH at the moment.
This despite the growing sentiment that gold's due for a short-term correction.
rsj
oh yeah it death,taxes and student loans.
from John Jansen @ Across the Curve
I was away from blogging today because I attended a meeting at the US Treasury Department in Washington with senior Treasury officials and a number of other bloggers including Marginal Revolution, Interfluidity, Kid Dynamite’s World, Naked Capitalism, Financial Armageddon, Accrued Interest, and Aleph.
no love for CR?
YouTube - Superfriends - giant squid
my marine telepathy should make that squid let go
Glorious compilation of charts: Debtwatch No. 40 November 2009: Have we dodged the Iceberg? | Steve Keen's Debtwatch
would walmart take it for groceries? would my landlord,take it for rent?
poic
well what happen to hu?
AP sources: House health bill totals $1.2 trillion
I vote for us to Borrow these funds!
All agreed? say aye
Wish they would have done more large cities. But interesting anyway.
Can't Find a Job? Best and Worst Job Markets | Indeed.com
Yes, all of the Stamford types desperate for another chance to load up under $1000 have certainly been spreading that one.
Fresh doom from this morning. From a serial novel I have been writing online...
"Yep, I'm a fed. When did that equal a death penalty in America? Yeah, we fucked up some." He paused "Maybe a lot. Still it's your government and it's trying to help you." He was going to go on but Max tapped him on the head hard enough for it to hurt. "Shut up. You want to live? We can work something out...maybe." He walked around so he could face him "Tell us why you are here Dalton. Tell us everything."
more? American Apocalypse
pikers
Well the Goarmy site locked my record since I am prior service, I have to talke to the recruiter in person and they will see if there is anything for me.
I dont want to be a 98G wahhh. I was thinking 92G--cook for a new career
Although I did make it as far as the little question section and some other MOS had come up to fit my personality that I had been looking at as well as the cook job---Medical lab tech, radiology tech and patient specialist. The cook job had a kick butt enlitsment bonus though ah well.
"gabyjan (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Mon, 11/2/2009 - 6:48 pm
reply ignore user
poic
well what happen to hu?"
mrs. Hu, my financial overlord is on the way to pick me up. I'm blogging in style on my iPhone at the local boutique starbucks.
No low end safeway starbucks for me. Image counts for us software geeks.
"Comrade Rally Monkey (homepage, profile) wrote on Mon, 11/2/2009 - 6:50 pm
reply ignore user
AP sources: House health bill totals $1.2 trillion
I vote for us to Borrow these funds!
All agreed? say aye"
hu's on board? Mei but what about yu?
rsj,
Thinking of re-uping?
Definitely something interesting happening on the yellow brick road tonight.
the army still has cooks? thought that was all outsourced to KBR, etc.
nova wrote:
You're related to Abby Joseph Cohen by marriage? There is definitely something androgynous about him that's for sure - kind of like Pat from SNL - thanks for confirming Abby's a guy. Abby Joseph Cohen Bullish But Preoccupied - Dealbreaker - A Wall Street Tabloid - Business News Headlines and Financial Gossip
I think they are "Facility Managers" who oversee contract employees. The Managers are usually e-6 and above
Comrade Rally Monkey wrote:
I think we'll have a filegate surprise. you see it turns out during the high inflation days of the Carter Administration they printed up $1.2 trillion as a precaution. By a lucky stroke this was actually accounted for in the budget but the cash was never circulated. That money will start paying for helthcare immediately and last right through the day after the mid-term elections. Because it is already accounted for it won't be inflationary but it will strangely enough fight deflation and leave your breath minty fresh.
Mike,
Nope. Not him. My guess is Basel too and EHP know him.
sorry if already posted.
gee whiz! these guys sure didn't get the memo about the skyrocketing near-term risk of widespread cannibalism and other, more mundane, things that happen when teotwawki hits.
Australia Will Raise Key Rate to at Least 3.5% (Update2) - Bloomberg.com
"Nov. 3 (Bloomberg) -- Australia’s central bank will raise its benchmark interest rate today by at least a quarter percentage point, the second increase in four weeks, amid signs the economy is strengthening, economists and traders say."
Locke "we need to be mindful of the deficit as well"
sneering nihilist wrote:
Paying 3.5% interest; that makes them like Citibank; except smaller.
Yeah Nova, sorta.
It started as a joking comment but then sort of evolved into "hmmm, I wonder what is out there in the great OD Green world for me?" So I have been looking a bit tonite to see and get a small idea.
I rephrased Ron White in a post above somewhere that "student loans are forevah"
A garnishment came through for some very old student loans. I guess they are going to prove to me I am not the turnip I think I am.
Hooboy here is an unintended consequence that all those wage do-gooders never thought of----I did not know this but for income below poverty line they do not/can not garnish wages. the new minimum wage law here in VA that started in JUly puts a single parent with one dependent a smidge above poverty line soooooooo all I can wish is some alcohol with that garnish. How many other lower income schmoos like me are going to get ganked?
Dont get me wrong, I owe the money, and have paid sporadically over the years as extra became available, and will continue working at current job to pay them off, but the silly comment about "hey wont the army pay off old loans" made the old brain cell go hmmmmm but it seems that prior service can be a bit sticky.
beeker's always going off on anonymous bloggers trashing companies, yet CNBC lets Cramer get away with this:
Mad Money: Gov’t to Sell Its Citi Shares? - CNBC
he government may soon exit the banking business, Cramer said during Monday’s Stop Trading!. Well, at least one bank.
Citigroup could be a buy, the Mad Money host said, if the feds unload their 34% ownership stake in the firm. And he thinks it could happen very soon.
“It just has that feel,” Cramer said. “It is so heavy it’s unbelievable.”
what the hell kind of analysis is that?
1 currency now -yogi wrote:
I guess I missed a few things, since I posted that, but negative earnings have always interested me! I never can understand why some earnings are N/A but yet AIG is negative 600+ ... I guess they're working on the multi-century plan for current shareholders and hoping that in the year 5526, women will survive... YouTube - Zager And Evans - In The Year 2525
have another kid?
Damn rsj,
That really sucks on so many levels. Such bullshit.
"“It just has that feel,” Cramer said. “It is so heavy it’s unbelievable.”
he's talking about the dump he just took.
Pay no attention to the clown.
Senior citizens should be able to invest in cd's like tip that earn 5%
I would like to see Government debt with the following characteristics.
1. Relatively small unit of investment, maybe $100 increments.
2. Issued for life of buyer, or 50 years if purchased corporately. (Maybe allow ONE transfer, but only from personal owner to partner on death/divorce.)
3. Redeemable at will on 7 days' notice.
4. Interest (but NOT principal) indexed to CPI.
OK, CPI manipulation is an issue but this will still give a relatively stable income stream.
I think an initial interest rate of 4%, and perhaps even a bit less, would be sufficient to allow retirees to avoid going after risky assets. I know my own mother would be very interested in such a security.
Obama Considering Next Stimulus Package
Should read: Obama Considering Wool for Stimulus Eyewear
Understanding wool fibres (Capability)
@sn,
You need to realise the Real Estate bubble hasn't burst here yet.
Nationwide median was up another 4.2% last quarter, and I have first-hand anecdotals that in my city the auction buyers are going (even more) nuts.
Basel Too said
have another kid?
A different kind of stimulus program Basel?
Dalton? Wasn't he the bouncer played by Patrick Swayze in Road House? Is this the same guy?
If so, he's here to kick ass.
At least make retirees savings tax free with a reasonable limit before taxation.
Dalton is going to spill his guts....
ozajh -- interesting. why do you think that you guys have avoided a crash?
You can decipher the Stimulus Ieak all you want, but every day it just looks like the Obama Administration is a bunch of bumbling fools on anything economic. Even clueless Americans are figuring it out. I don't know if they will pass any version of health care reform or not. But you can't blame Americans for being wary of trusting anything big-ticket to these morons.
It's hard to tell who is the biggest economic clown. Geithner probably belongs on top the list, but Obama really isn't far behind. The only difference between them is that Obama can fake what he doesn't know better. It's getting to be a sad circus.
I really hate when people make this anecdotal remark and then don't give a zip code or at least a county.
Have another kid? Oh dear god Id rather sell plasma and rent my body out for medical studies.
Not that there is anything WRONG with having kids. I just find that i prefer them in theory rather than practice
j/k and full snark ahead.
But I am 41 and id rather re-up for 4 years than birth another.
.....did I overhear someone stating they'd received a student loan bill from a past life? I just received one like that in the mail last week. It was a small amount (a couple grand) that was paid to my son when he attended college some 20-years ago. I had never heard from them prior to this. I don't know if I should just ignore it, which is SOP, or strike up a dialog and tell them what they can do with this piece of paper after they've rolled it up in a cylindrical shape............I'll die before they'll collect.....do I have any "takers"?
rsj,
You know the pros and cons. Far better than I do. I do know the 2 guys I work with have 5 deployments now between them. They're Reserve too.
... I guess they're working on the multi-century plan for current shareholders and hoping that in the year 5526, women will survive
+2
i laughed harder the 2nd time
Democratic senator ‘not sure’ why Treasury Secretary Geithner still has job | Raw Story
about time we get questioning from Dem Senators ( go Sen. Maria Cantwell since I live in WA State ) about assclown Timmy 'the toll for the
Geithner
Did you see all the doomy stories about wheat prices over the weekend, based on a 1-week pullback and some rumors of vast bumper crops in the midwest? Somebody was pumping that one hard. Wheat prices were up 3+% today.
China is so desperate for a decent wheat crop out of their drought that they massively seeded the clouds in the north. Then, a cold front came in and it snowed buckets in northern China today, two months ahead of schedule. You mess with mother nature, and food always wins.
Oh, I forgot. China's been messing with mother nature awhile now.
toll... tool ....what the difference
hh -- ozajh replied to my link about australia. ozajh said that i need to "realise the Real Estate bubble hasn't burst here yet."
since s/he used the term "here" i assumed that s/he was in australia . maybe i'm wrong.
ozajh -- are you in australia? if yes, is fosters really australian for beer?
ducks
rich wrote:
Mess with MN and food wins?
Gold in the night session at 1065. At 1085-95, that's a 10% return in 2 months for those who followed me in at the 985-995 low. Were you reading Mish's blog at the time, you would have seen my real time entry statements. I promised I'd not lie at the game of making money, unlike most of the touts who, btw, sell their services. Livermore said, "Be patient." Not bad.
The breakaway gap today is real. It must be watched carefully. The market is moving up with a broken ankle. It's exceedingly rare for gaps of this size, $10, to exist more than a few days. But meanwhile, it's 10% or bust. Very kewl, and very well deserved if I may be ever so humble.
rich wrote:
Where are they now ...
The Ticker -
Senate Confirms Geithner To Head Treasury -
Economy Watch
Here's a partial list of senators voting against Geithner. The Ticker is missing one name; we'll get it tomorrow when the official roll comes out:....
I'm a little amazed that Ted Kennedy didn't vote for him...
sorry, hadn't followed the narrative - usually these kinds of posts are from west LA folk.
yes, Oz, especially Sydney, is beyond nuts.
I saw those. Wheat was down 15% because of great crops?
sneering nihilist wrote:
Just like Corona is Beer for Mexicans! I wonder if Americans are the only people who actually drink their own over-hyped, poor quality domestic beer...
Mess with MN and food wins?
Minnesota?
I'm with NaRM... let's see a BIG friggin' stimulus package; you know, something that would send PK into orgasmic fits. Oh, and let's pair that with UUHC -- Universal Unlimited Health Care. Let's hang a nice round number on it, say, like $5T or so.
If that doesn't solve all our problems immediately I don't know what will. [Of course, the solution won't be what they're expecting.]
nova wrote:
In this case, Minnesota & Mother Nature both dropped a whole bunch of cold on the ground.
Actually, Mexican immigrants love their Tecate, so that would be a 'no'.
Euros seem to love Bud, and Americans seem to love Heiny more than Spaten, so I would imagine that love of relatively crap beer is something that unites the brotherhood of man.
TJ and The Bear wrote:
Speaking of PK's orgasmic fits, what is the male talking head equivalent of the nightstand cowboy? Hopefully not a nightstand cowboy?
what is the male talking head equivalent of the nightstand cowboy?
Down south it is a sun warmed watermelon.
In a floor speech,Sen Tom Harkin of Iowa said, ''How can Mr. Geithner speak with any credibility and authority as America's chief tax enforcement officer?''
HollywoodHack wrote:
I prefer microbrews and Tsing Tsao personally, but I won't turn down a Kiren if offered. I'd drink Milwaukee's Best before I drink Bud. Might as well save some USDs...
Nice to see intra-party cheap shots. Too bad Harkin has no interest in actually addressing something substantive.
nova wrote:
Just doesn't have the same ring to it as Maria's toy...
yes, the crappy attempts at lagers from asia are relatively inoffensive. I wish I owned a piece of IPA. that stuff is of the gods.
Okay. How about "going plugin"
In Texas it would be "I'm going to go wander the range for a bit. Hold my calls."
Will Oblame-all admit that the first stimuli was nothing more than a backlog of democrat pet social spending and was never meant to be anything other.
nova wrote:
Like "goin' giggin'"? I guess it works. Of course, there isn't anything amusing about a man putting his pointer where it doesn't belong. Kinda the history of man...
despair is when you realize we would not have an economy except for vampire squids
Yagij,
Yeah. Life is hard for men. Stoically making our way through this valley of shopping.
nova wrote:
The worst 4 word phrase ever: "Please hold my purse"
nova wrote:
So nova, when's the AA crew going to run into a mall? That would have a nice "dawn of the dead" feel to it.
tg, that is the hard part.
The US is too far gone for Main Street to bring us back, at least for a very long time.
The Fed is proping up everything at this point, but it won't hold forever.
I have no clue what will happen.
tj,
That's a good idea. I like that. A lot of bad humor possible there.
It's been a few cwazy daze in the commodities pitz including glod and silber. I wouldn't make anything of it until/unless pattern emerges. Last July natgas was over $12. Today it dropped 20¢ decisively under $5. Lumber is up 10% in three sessions. Feel free to make up all kinds of macro or trading or wave or chart theories but don't discard the possibility that the herd is just confused.
me neither
slumdog
good call
yeah
gold is getting a stimulus package
Well Nova very little is likely to come of it but I figure the enlistment age cutoff is 42 so if there are any screamin'-cant-pass-'em-up deals I should find out now while im just sort of old rahter than past the official old cutoff.
I also have to admit that fielding that joke comment earlier today about joining up and reading that article MP posted about the older man joining for health insurance....i started thinking that I should gather the data.
Black star ranch---id say open the dialog. Honestly they really are forevah, evn more so than those darn diamonds.
" "Hopefully this next proposal won't include the equally dumb $250 payment to seniors ..."
Why would that be dumb?
--- a senior "
Because there alternatives expenditures which are so much better--for a mere 10,000 of these $250 payments you can get a $2,500,000 bonus for a banker.
sn,
If I knew that, I wouldn't have sold my own house in 2004. I thought it was ridiculously overpriced then and prices have since gone up maybe 40%.
My mother went to an auction weekend before last, and a 40 year old 1200sqft house converted into a 2/1 plus a 1/1 (so obviously both are SMALL) went for $613K. Gross combined rental return for the two units would be about $2500pcm in that area.
Low-end wages are higher in dollar terms here than in the US, but high-end wages are lower, so we're more or less comparing apples with apples.
I can think of a couple of factors:
1. The government stimulus here for first-time buyers makes your tax credit look paltry. It's of the order of $20K as a straight gift.
2. NO Capital Gains tax on resale of principal residence (but no tax deduction for mortgage interest).
3. Landlords can claim interest as a deduction, along with the usual expenses. They can in fact offset losses on investment properties against any other income, and so many do that the private rental sector in Australia runs at an overall (and growing) loss for tax purposes. Investment assets held for more than 12 months only have half the capital gain treated as taxable income, so RE is often used to convert today's taxable income into tomorrow's 50%-taxable capital gains.
4. Last but by no means least, Australia has had higher inflation than the US for almost all of the last 50 years, and the meme of letting inflation reduce the real value of your mortgage is very, very strong.
/rant
Once again, a failure of marketing.
"Stimulus" has become a bad word, like "tax". Why don't they just say they want to spend $700 billion on things the public wants and needs which the market is not providing (make-work jobs are not such a thing).