you'll see the same emotional shutdown, eyes glazed, subject changed //////
Yes, although it may come from the preception that nothing can be done to change things.
We are a debt based society, people have mortgages, car loans, student loans, credit cards. That system is not going to change. Many of the very basics of survival are dependent on debt / credit. Most people can't fight that system.
In addition most people are much more moral that the eating them for lunch. That may be what changes. To our benifit or not?
Frankly I don't understand why unemployment isn't 48 point type in every paper every day. I complain about the numbers being gamed so maybe someone can explain how with 5% fewer people employed that GDP hasn't imploded. Maybe GDP doesn't mean making stuff anymore as much as it means shuffling electrons.
When he/she figures out that the banks have screwed him over, does he return the favor?
That is becoming the main stream thought now. Also gives J6P the moral ok to "get back at the system that set him up to get screwed". People can disregard their own contribution to the current mess pretty easily now.
I think the GDP has been 3/4 service for a while - 'making stuff' is strictly a sideshow
It's more than just being service - it is the fraudulent nature of so much of the activity at the recent peak. Also, the multipliers tend be significantly higher for those 'sideshow' jobs IIRC...
Can't understand the hero worship of Sheila Bair just because she closed down some bank that Timmy liked. The FDIC guarantees billions in "public-private partnership" taxpayer ripoffs at a time when the DIF is broke. In the last 3 years, she has done nothing but underestimate the risk to depositors as a courtesy to the current bank cartel she seems to be bent on saving. Not my idea of a hero.
Looked at the Lehman catalog also; surprisingly impressive, at least on line. But I never thought they were less talented than , just unlucky.
It is remarkably hard to beat up on somebody who keeps saying
doggedly that they don't remember. I've tried, and I've seen others
try.
Also, in a negotiating session, try saying nothing. It will be painful
for you but more painful for the other person. And take a very long
time to answer a telephone solicitor--drives 'em nutz.
Being the only one caught and punished for a crime committed by millions, usually more egregiously, is not a valid defense-- selective enforcement and equal protection considerations notwithstanding.
LOL, hell even the police will tell you that (sometimes) - friend of the family is a LEO, his words - "Admit nothing, deny everything, wait for the evidence."
Martha got caught up in our gotye' culture, everyone knew her face and government employee's wanted their fifthteen minutes of fame, while telling themselves Madoff was way to high up on the food chain and the public didn't know him.
I have some plants to plant that have been there for a week.
I just bought a 'lemon cypress' that's calling me to transplant to a bigger pot. I expect tentacles of the everygreen to crawl around the corner into my bedroom office any moment. But its not a vampire squid, I think.
Apropos the link to the October Economic Summary in Graphs: fine presentation of the economy, especially the jobs picture, but how about for the next one, you include the unemployment profile leading into the Great Depression? Since we've clearly left the shallow end of the pool, it's time to chart the comparison with how bad it can get. Anyway, well done.
The following statement was issued today by Mark J.P. Anson, Chief Investment Officer of the California Public Employees' Retirement System (CalPERS), about the pension fund's business relationship with Goldman Sachs Asset Management.
"Some recent news reports have stated that CalPERS terminated in August 2002 Goldman Sach's CORE (Computer Optimized Research Enhanced) quantitative large-cap equity growth product that was being run by the investment firm's New York Office.
Some news reports omitted the fact that in May 2002 CalPERS hired Goldman Sach's Tampa, Florida office to manage a new fundamental stock research large-cap equity growth investment product. This relationship is not affected by the August action.
Goldman Sachs remains one of our 13 domestic equity managers and we are confident in their ability to add value to our equity portfolio."
Attempting to leap into mediocrity vis a vis a 4-4 record, a LSBF notes that we hold a slim lead @ the half and it looks promising, but it's kinda like rooting for Sisyphus.
But everyone knows you can't sue the federal government
*
Yes, you can, in certain situations the federal gov't has waived its immunity. Not like I know what all those instances are though, Basel Too? 1 currency?
I long for the day, seriously. No golfcourse community white collar place great for networking opportunities that includes Wifi rather.... sharing a cell with a really large 300lb schizophrenic whose already served 15 years of hard time for violent crime.
The humor would be grouped, with light hearted explanations
of what was being joked about so the ignorant could get the joke.
And learn something about finance with ease.
Jim Sinclair just posted this:
"Posted: Oct 31 2009 By: Jim Sinclair
The so called quick surgical bankruptcy of CIT will result in a company that will only be able to provide 20% of its previous level of financial services to Middle America according to Friday’s Wall Street Journal.
Any institutions replacing these services will have:
Higher levels of credit worthiness to be met by small business.
Less funds committed to these loans.
Further, the assets of CIT in bankruptcy are the middle American loans outstanding that will be brutally attacked by the bankruptcy process.
That is going to result in a flood of middle American businesses declaring bankruptcy."
If he's right, does this mean residential and commercial RE will now tank, irrespective of the govt financing available and the tax credit?
Serious question, folks. This is a keystone to the asset base of the USA.
Yes, businesses will go out of business. However many of them will go out of business after the 1st of the year in any event, especially small retail.
I'll have to think this one over. One of the TBTF lenders may pick up the quality companies. The quality companies may be the only ones that could survive anyway. Not sure.
On the one hand, the absorption of losses has certainly damaged the value of the USD.
On the other hand, in Lend Lease times, the US basically gave away goods and services for worthless immediately-post WWII government paper (that inflated away to next to nothing, btw).
So, this time, the USG is giving away money in exchange for worthless paper with the difference being this is to the private sector rather than to the public sector (outside the USA).
There may be something here that contradicts Jim Sinclair's conclusion.
Are there here any heavy hitter brainiacs to reply to this?
I don't quite understand. The companies owe CIT money, not the other
way around. Will CIT or its successors refuse to roll over loans? Seizing
the assets of these small businesses won't get them much, but they'll
do it anyway?
The businesses aren't making money anyway, so they float on the tides
of credit?
Volker: We've got them not 5 miles from where I am in VT. A real commune with people who came to Woodstock and never left, not the only one either, they are speckled around up here. Dead serious. They still hitchhike too with gray hair down to their waists. We also have left overs on back country roads with homemade paint jobs on garages "NO HIPPIES". It really is living a time warp here in more than one way.
But go for it JD and dryfly, I surely love your stuff and I'm not taking psychotropics.
i drove by the pacific nation bank branch in fremont, ca this morning.
All closed with fdic papers on the front and by the atm. I took a couple of pictures with my iphone.
Used to be a schwab branch. PNB couldn't have been there more than a couple of months before getting shut-down. What a waste of money spent on opening the branch.
If you successfully cash a welfare check via bankruptcy, your competitors must follow suit or lose market share assuming efficient market competition.
As the TBTF lenders got a welfare check via insolvancy from the Fed etc, does that mean that J6P needs to file BK to stay competitive and regain market share with the lenders?
Don't you get the feeling that we're finally nearing the last flush of the credit/debt bowl?
The USG has decided to supply more water, and darned if more stuff shows up in the bowl.
We have next to witness CRE and option ARMS appearing for a few flushes.
Then what?
I report that the tenor of the country is now a heightened sense of a squeeze on their budget.
You know who will take the hit? The USPS, UPS, FedEx and the trucklines. Less goods are moving urgently. The sweetspot, urgent package delivery, is taking a huge hit. This will go right to their bottomlines.
The local shipping place told the hub last week that
things were getting better for them.
(SIL wanted to ship endless air plants from here. Not just
one or 2. Don't see the point. Can't last in Mass, tho they
grown like weeds here. Hmmm, kinda are weeds.)
[The Giants are stinking it up] The outrage ebbs and flows, even though Friday was for my puts. I want to invest my surplus in productive enterprise, but can't when it's all in range of the or the
The recession's over happy times again ! ( Not )
got
volker the viking wrote:
you'll see the same emotional shutdown, eyes glazed, subject changed //////
Yes, although it may come from the preception that nothing can be done to change things.
We are a debt based society, people have mortgages, car loans, student loans, credit cards. That system is not going to change. Many of the very basics of survival are dependent on debt / credit. Most people can't fight that system.
In addition most people are much more moral that the
eating them for lunch. That may be what changes. To our benifit or not?
Frontrunning is ILLEGAL.
A fiduciary not acting in the principal's interest is ILLEGAL.
Misrepresenting risk is ILLEGAL.
Manipulating markets with leverage is ILLEGAL.
I believe GS [and other primary dealers] have engaged in all of these, as they have been accused.
But no one in this business will be held accountable for any wrong doing. There's no imperative to investigate and no will to prosecute.
~splat
Explain to me why Martha Stewart went to jail?
It appears the government is bent and determined to rediscover the Law of Diminishing Returns.
Or they've decided it's only a 'theory' and are attempting to completely ignore it.
Sunnyside wrote:
because, that's a good thing
I would say "So sue them!" But everyone knows you can't sue the federal government.
Martha Stewart is really low on the food chain.
She gave to Democrats? /snark
josap wrote:
She's more of a decorative garnish, really.
Good one noob
She's wasn't the
Frankly I don't understand why unemployment isn't 48 point type in every paper every day. I complain about the numbers being gamed so maybe someone can explain how with 5% fewer people employed that GDP hasn't imploded. Maybe GDP doesn't mean making stuff anymore as much as it means shuffling electrons.
So does J6P file BK in massive waves?
When he/she figures out that the banks have screwed him over, does he return the favor?
That is becoming the main stream thought now. Also gives J6P the moral ok to "get back at the system that set him up to get screwed". People can disregard their own contribution to the current mess pretty easily now.
Rob Dawg wrote:
wouldn't be at all surprised if they are running emulation programs for estimating GDP
we're all emulations now
I think the GDP has been 3/4 service for a while - 'making stuff' is strictly a sideshow
Doesn't productivity go up when fewer people are doing the same amount of dollar value work?
GDP includes gov spending, I think.
Rob Dawg wrote:
Bingo. How much of the S&P did FIRE activity become at the peak, close to 40% or something ridiculous like that?
Maybe some day I'll believe that GDP means something other than making stuff up.
Sunnyside wrote:
She lied to the Feds so she went to prison for lying.
If she had just shut up, it would have been a civil case with a disgorgement of profits and probable fine.
It was the lying.
So now it is 1/2 service, 1/2 gov''t (with most of that being debt)
HollywoodHack wrote:
It's more than just being service - it is the fraudulent nature of so much of the activity at the recent peak. Also, the multipliers tend be significantly higher for those 'sideshow' jobs IIRC...
NorkaWest wrote:
never, ever, talk to the police--ever
at the risk of being thought stupid, what is IIRC?
resist the urge--I know I'm stupid
The clock on 'hoocoodanode' needs resetting?
Since it's a summary post:
Can't understand the hero worship of Sheila Bair just because she closed down some bank that Timmy liked. The FDIC guarantees billions in "public-private partnership" taxpayer ripoffs at a time when the DIF is broke. In the last 3 years, she has done nothing but underestimate the risk to depositors as a courtesy to the current bank cartel she seems to be bent on saving. Not my idea of a hero.
Looked at the Lehman catalog also; surprisingly impressive, at least on line. But I never thought they were less talented than
, just unlucky.
"I have no memory of any of those events so can't possibly comment." Just remember it's their job to prove otherwise
~splat
Common Internet Acronyms
is you friend
~splat
IIRC - if I recall correctly
Awesome guest post by albrt. Thank you very much for your generous donation of your time, albrt!
splat wrote:
Txs, OOTDIWRTFM
Ok, Volk, I refuse to look; what does that mean?
one of these days i will read the freaking manual
I like it better when you call me Volkie
I so await the day that we can see Mozillo, Chris Dodd, Michael Perry and Paulson under oath.
It is remarkably hard to beat up on somebody who keeps saying
doggedly that they don't remember. I've tried, and I've seen others
try.
Also, in a negotiating session, try saying nothing. It will be painful
for you but more painful for the other person. And take a very long
time to answer a telephone solicitor--drives 'em nutz.
Ok Volkie.
She kinda had fun in jail, and I don't think was hurt at all.
She turned it into a publicity stunt and good for her.
A venial sin only.
She successfully defied one of the powers that be.
Good enough for me.
lawyerliz wrote:
she decorated everybody's cell, taught them make up techniques, and turned the prison food into something recognizable
Sunnyside wrote:
sharing a jail cell would be better.
So I took some leftover collateralized debt obligations, and whipped them into a cashierole.
Being the only one caught and punished for a crime committed by millions, usually more egregiously, is not a valid defense-- selective enforcement and equal protection considerations notwithstanding.
Daily Kos: Alan Grayson accused the Fed of manipulating the stock market
Do you spend time thinking these things up or do they just flash
into your brain?
We're not talking about refusing to napalm the Vietcong, just making a few bonus dollars in a rigged game.
volker the viking wrote:
LOL, hell even the police will tell you that (sometimes) - friend of the family is a LEO, his words - "Admit nothing, deny everything, wait for the evidence."
"Thank you very much for your generous donation of your time"
You're welcome.
I'm just a small-time word mangler, very impromptu.
IIRC, it helped her with a signifcant segment of her target market - made her other than perfect - more sympathetic etc.
I know superb when I see it and you are superb.
(and you have an audience well read and smart enough to laugh)
She left with this ugly colored sweater thing that she had made
into a chic shape at least.
lawyerliz wrote:
Liz, please--there's only a micron of difference between cute and insufferable
Don't care. Juvie can rise above insufferable.
TBTJ
[Too Big To Jail]
Martha got caught up in our gotye' culture, everyone knew her face and government employee's wanted their fifthteen minutes of fame, while telling themselves Madoff was way to high up on the food chain and the public didn't know him.
Excellent.
I have some plants to plant that have been there for a week.
This isn't going to be helpful to UE numbers. 23,000 to go at Chrysler.
Chrysler confirms plans to offer buyouts - MarketWatch
lawyerliz wrote:
I just bought a 'lemon cypress' that's calling me to transplant to a bigger pot. I expect tentacles of the everygreen to crawl around the corner into my bedroom office any moment. But its not a vampire squid, I think.
Sit-down comedians live a heckle and jive existence...
A company we all like to blame
For successfully running a game,
Is guilty, at least,
For giving a beast
Like the vampire squid a bad name ~
Apropos the link to the October Economic Summary in Graphs: fine presentation of the economy, especially the jobs picture, but how about for the next one, you include the unemployment profile leading into the Great Depression? Since we've clearly left the shallow end of the pool, it's time to chart the comparison with how bad it can get. Anyway, well done.
When you've got the public by the Sachs it's only a matter of time before you get their Gold man.
SACRAMENTO, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Sept. 13, 2002
The following statement was issued today by Mark J.P. Anson, Chief Investment Officer of the California Public Employees' Retirement System (CalPERS), about the pension fund's business relationship with Goldman Sachs Asset Management.
"Some recent news reports have stated that CalPERS terminated in August 2002 Goldman Sach's CORE (Computer Optimized Research Enhanced) quantitative large-cap equity growth product that was being run by the investment firm's New York Office.
Some news reports omitted the fact that in May 2002 CalPERS hired Goldman Sach's Tampa, Florida office to manage a new fundamental stock research large-cap equity growth investment product. This relationship is not affected by the August action.
Goldman Sachs remains one of our 13 domestic equity managers and we are confident in their ability to add value to our equity portfolio."
This giant vampire squid which eclipses all other scary giants preceding, The Blob, Godzilla, Mothra even...ALIENS.
Attempting to leap into mediocrity vis a vis a 4-4 record, a LSBF notes that we hold a slim lead @ the half and it looks promising, but it's kinda like rooting for Sisyphus.
http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/reb/1445822851.html
or, correcting the punctuation...
Now is The Time To Buy Senators! Agree to Extend Homebuyer Tax Credit
[Note: Don't believe the headline. It's a sales pitch.]
G-men takes on a whole new spin, eh Rob?
Josap wrote
"This isn't going to be helpful to UE numbers. 23,000 to go at Chrysler."
Last one turnout the lights, Chysler 58,000 employees (2008)
sharing a jail cell would be better.
which one will be the top?
Hahahahahahahah.
Hummm. Wouldn't it be cool to publish a book
of CR humor???
splat
oh thank you so much its going on my desktop
A super smiley salute!!
It'd be a pretty short book ~
*
*
Yes, you can, in certain situations the federal gov't has waived its immunity. Not like I know what all those instances are though, Basel Too? 1 currency?
But you would figure prominently.
I long for the day, seriously. No golfcourse community white collar place great for networking opportunities that includes Wifi rather.... sharing a cell with a really large 300lb schizophrenic whose already served 15 years of hard time for violent crime.
Thanks, Liz
volker
ok what does it mean
thats what i had to do today to get the time changed on cell phone
Gridirony would be having 160 NFL games in a season, with just 16 MLB stanzas...
Most of the original players would last 20-30 games at most, and the whole team gets replaced over and over, gladiatorial style.
The playoffs are a best of 7 series...
S.P.Q.A.
Would the shoulder pads include spiked projections?
jd
but they are so good
The humor would be grouped, with light hearted explanations
of what was being joked about so the ignorant could get the joke.
And learn something about finance with ease.
Light-hearted explanation, there's the rub.
Juvie has internet groupies!
Jim Sinclair just posted this:
"Posted: Oct 31 2009 By: Jim Sinclair
The so called quick surgical bankruptcy of CIT will result in a company that will only be able to provide 20% of its previous level of financial services to Middle America according to Friday’s Wall Street Journal.
Any institutions replacing these services will have:
Further, the assets of CIT in bankruptcy are the middle American loans outstanding that will be brutally attacked by the bankruptcy process.
That is going to result in a flood of middle American businesses declaring bankruptcy."
If he's right, does this mean residential and commercial RE will now tank, irrespective of the govt financing available and the tax credit?
Serious question, folks. This is a keystone to the asset base of the USA.
barfly
i am very suprised that the society for the prevention and badmouthing of vampire squids havent complained
lawyerliz wrote:
just flashed on the image of a bunch of seniors riding in a 1963 VW microbus on the way to a reading of Juvie humor
their luggage crammed with OTC pain relievers, psychotropic drugs and a small bottle of cheap whiskey
I think it just came up in sarcasm that GS is the US.
The judiciary has not been captured to the same extent as the other branches, but there are "standing" hurdles to overcome-- some very sensible.
When is he going to throw himself off the stage and body surf the internet?
Slumdog
No clue how it will effect RRE & CRE short term.
Yes, businesses will go out of business. However many of them will go out of business after the 1st of the year in any event, especially small retail.
I'll have to think this one over. One of the TBTF lenders may pick up the quality companies. The quality companies may be the only ones that could survive anyway. Not sure.
On the one hand, the absorption of losses has certainly damaged the value of the USD.
On the other hand, in Lend Lease times, the US basically gave away goods and services for worthless immediately-post WWII government paper (that inflated away to next to nothing, btw).
So, this time, the USG is giving away money in exchange for worthless paper with the difference being this is to the private sector rather than to the public sector (outside the USA).
There may be something here that contradicts Jim Sinclair's conclusion.
Are there here any heavy hitter brainiacs to reply to this?
PS Thx josap for your rumination.
I don't quite understand. The companies owe CIT money, not the other
way around. Will CIT or its successors refuse to roll over loans? Seizing
the assets of these small businesses won't get them much, but they'll
do it anyway?
The businesses aren't making money anyway, so they float on the tides
of credit?
,rad vtv,
Please don't the authorities that i've been having relations with a 16 year old lass, named Lagavulin.
Volker: We've got them not 5 miles from where I am in VT. A real commune with people who came to Woodstock and never left, not the only one either, they are speckled around up here. Dead serious. They still hitchhike too with gray hair down to their waists. We also have left overs on back country roads with homemade paint jobs on garages "NO HIPPIES". It really is living a time warp here in more than one way.
But go for it JD and dryfly, I surely love your stuff and I'm not taking psychotropics.
Yeah, Juvie'd rather have an in the flesh gropie that over the hill electronic
groupies!!
If you successfully cash a welfare check via bankruptcy, your competitors must follow suit or lose market share assuming efficient market competition.
Corporate BK is ponzi.
Squatter businesses that get rent free?
You mean you can sell cheaper, so others must match or die?
Doesn't sound like inflation to me.
i drove by the pacific nation bank branch in fremont, ca this morning.
All closed with fdic papers on the front and by the atm. I took a couple of pictures with my iphone.
Used to be a schwab branch. PNB couldn't have been there more than a couple of months before getting shut-down. What a waste of money spent on opening the branch.
1 currency now -yogi wrote:
As the TBTF lenders got a welfare check via insolvancy from the Fed etc, does that mean that J6P needs to file BK to stay competitive and regain market share with the lenders?
We are just so screwed any way this unfolds.
Don't you get the feeling that we're finally nearing the last flush of the credit/debt bowl?
The USG has decided to supply more water, and darned if more stuff shows up in the bowl.
We have next to witness CRE and option ARMS appearing for a few flushes.
Then what?
I report that the tenor of the country is now a heightened sense of a squeeze on their budget.
You know who will take the hit? The USPS, UPS, FedEx and the trucklines. Less goods are moving urgently. The sweetspot, urgent package delivery, is taking a huge hit. This will go right to their bottomlines.
The local shipping place told the hub last week that
things were getting better for them.
(SIL wanted to ship endless air plants from here. Not just
one or 2. Don't see the point. Can't last in Mass, tho they
grown like weeds here. Hmmm, kinda are weeds.)
Sure, Ford could stay profitable by coming up with some brilliant innovation that GM can't reverse-engineer. Easier to bust union contracts in BK.
Slumdog
Looks more like a fight in the credit / debt toilet bowl to me.
J6P is trying to get out of debt, or being forced out of debt as in a forclosure.
TBTF and Fed trying to get us in debt with C4C and FTHB credit,
No debt means J6P lives another day.
More debt means J6P is increasingly enslaved to TPTB.
Just my take on things.
There were a lot of charts showing consumer debt a while ago.
Going down.
Haven't seen any/many recently.
I rather think the non spenders are way exceeding the spenders, but
that's just an impression.
I was meditating on MacDonald's leaving Iceland.
Will there be a huge breakout of better health?
GMAC got a $6 billion BAILOUT welfare check from Sheila and Timmy this week to pay for deadbeats' new clunkers. Anybody even notice?
It's be ok, yogster, the buyers will pay the loans back.
Oops, the yogster is grouchy today!
Don't worry, be happy.
CHART OF THE DAY: Consumer Credit Collapse
Here ya go Liz.
I noticed yogi.
Can't do anything about how they spend my money. Need to figure out a way not to have any money for them to spend.
Liz
That was a quick mood shift.
That chart was a cliff diver!
[The Giants are stinking it up] The outrage ebbs and flows, even though Friday was
for my puts. I want to invest my surplus in productive enterprise, but can't when it's all in range of the 
or the 
Something small and local?
And company credit collapse also...
Inner Workings » Blog Archive » Worst Credit Crunch Ever for Main Street
When oh when will CD rates start to increase?
Liz, that chart shows people having less debt, which is a good thing from my point of vew.
The bad part is that some of that lower debt is due to people losing jobs and not paying or filing BK.
Yes, looking at small businesses recently.
It doesn't help one's mood when you see Mayor Mike Bloomberg is spending $15,000 per HOUR to get re-elected inappropriately to a third term.
That money will never get clawed back either.
Looks like we have no poll for BFS:
CIT Files Its Bankruptcy Plan - WSJ.com
Both down 10%.
"money" transfers to banks==dead electrons.
Great charts, thanks Jonathan.
Jonathan wrote:
whoa!