there is truth to the idea that one can "manage" the populace through visuals.
is there any doubt that Indymac and Northern Rock fell partially due to the pictures/video of people trying to get out their money.
I doubt we'll be allowed to see many more bank lines again.
on a side note: this is one reason (of many) why our depression (if it happens) might "look" different than the Great Depression... we have more social programs and thus less soup lines, Hobos, and Hoovervilles...
University of Phoenix only got a leg up when Intel greenlighted paying for masters degree courses for employees. Unfortunately a couple of years back Intel realized that these courses were one giant that they pulled the plug. Hence the rise of financial aid %.
Some one has a very large sealy.
I would love to know how much of that money is still buried in peoples back yards. Once you get scared enough to do a bank run - do you ever trust them again?
This shoots a gaping hole in John Hempton's theory that the WaMu takeover by JPM orchestrated by FDIC was an illegal shafting of shareholders/bondholders He was flogging the idea for quite awhile that WaMu was perfectly fine and that JPM used FDIC to grab market share.
JPM got the company as essentially payment for taking over the exposure on WaMu's loan book.
Maybe Hu cried fowl to The Bankers Bonus's, know if someone owed me that much and I saw them riding in limo's it would piss me off. Rumor has it the pumper is tired and taken the day off.
Wisdom Speaker, they release it behind a firewall for a month, and then release it to the general public. It is available to everyone now ... and since this is a historical piece, the release date isn't critical - it is interesting reading.
Every conceivable metric of genuine 'growth' which can't be gamed by trillions of Fed "dollars" shows that we've been in one for a while. Tax receipts, unemployment, etc etc...
Greetings to my favorite collection of doomers. Thought I'd stop by and wish you all well. I noticed dryfly's question in an earlier thread - about how people around us are reacting to current events (i.e., are they in denial, sitting around waiting for Law & Order reruns?):
I'd say that most of my suburban, 30-something contemporaries are goon bonging the koolaid. If they were worried before, they've got their heads back up their bums again now. They are happy to have an excuse to go back to the mall and buy crap they don't need with money they don't have. Sure, a friend of a friend is out of work but don't be so negative (shhh! you'll scare the kids!)
"Everything is going to be okay," they tell each other over lattes. "God is in his McMansion and all is right with the world."
Meanwhile, my last big purchase was a dozen bags of sheepshit to work into the garden before it freezes. The garden is the backyard, where the lawn used to be. I've stopped caring what the neighbors think, and am flying the freak flag high.
Just my guess, if the market drops under 7000 again there will be bank runs.
J6P knows how bad off the banks are. He had to pay out of his pocket to keep them in business. So J6P will take his money and run, thinking the banks won't get it this time.
Of course J6P doesn't understand that Ben's of pixels is where they really get the "money".
He had to pay out of his pocket to keep them in business.
Nonsense, his grandkids and the nice chinese people folks holding our dollar-denominated debt are the ones to pay - J6P is still paying incredibly low marginal rates.
Happy 1929 (Second) Crash Day (in case you've forgotten the buy the booze and chocolate)
Four phrases—Black Thursday, Black Friday, then Black Monday, and Black Tuesday—are commonly used to describe this collapse of stock values. All four are appropriate, for the crash was not a one-day affair. The initial crash occurred on Thursday, October 24, 1929, but the catastrophic downturn of Monday, October 28 and Tuesday, October 29 precipitated widespread alarm and the onset of an unprecedented and long-lasting economic depression for the United States and the world. This stock market collapse continued for a month.
Will history repeat? Do you have some cash carefully Sealyized?
Kick Off the next drop in the Credit Crunch/Depression
BofA just called and cancelled my credit card- I would not provide them with informatin concerning my current liquid assets (some strange guy on the phone calls and I am going to tell him what?)
Funny thing is I just paid off the balance- he also told me my other BofA card had been cancelled several months ago- WITHOUT NOTICE TO ME.
They are asking for the Velvet Fist of Government- it will now be applied.
America, prepare to live without credit beyond AMEX!!!
it keeps mentioning that the DIF did not take a hit
Yah, that's B.S. Someone took the hit and you can bet it wasn't a JP Morgan shareholder or bondholder... But, not to worry, there really isn't a DIF anyway! At least, there wasn't. Now it's gone anyway... From what I've gleaned, the FDIC doesn't have some magical reserve of stockpiled assets stashed in a vault somewhere. It just draws on general federal revenue. In other words, the FDIC's DIF is no more real than the Social Security Trust Fund. And therefore, since the DIF is gone anyway, should the FDIC need to backstop some more large failed banks, and should the U.S. Treasury not have the cash stash ready at hand, there's a risk of bumping up against the national debt ceiling. Congress would very probably raise the debt ceiling in such a pinch, but it would also certainly have some political reverberations.
And people wonder why there is no trust remaining in the banks. There's nothing like evidence of coverups and obfuscation to reinforce my confidence in the media, leadership, and finances of America.
Long Treasuries, bullish on the dollar, and I think anyone who plays in equities or commodities in either direction is El Nutso. And all of that because I have faith in the American populace and the cynical economics of China; none of it because I trust Congress any further than the nearest woodshed for whipping.
Most J6Ps understand money one way. It is in their pocket or someone elses. Dollar bills trading places. Don't try to explain overnight lending, leverage, on - off books. Many people just don't know about anything past green paper dollars.
Did Hu get pissed at us (or something)? Why is the market so down today?
There are two ways our economy can adjust against China: they can revalue their RMB upwards(instantly bankrupting the PBOC, which holds dollars as assets, ruining their exports, and making toads of the entire CCP), or they can let differential inflation rates revalue the RMB upwards on a real basis. Wages and inflation are very low in China. Guess what that means for inflation in America?
China's not stupid. They're not going to break the peg. They're going to keep investing in America until it breaks our back. And I, for one, welcome Hu, our benevolent new overlord. Can't be worse than our current oligarchy.
Wisdom Speaker, they release it behind a firewall for a month, and then release it to the general public.
Thanks for that clarification! Their firewall doesn't work very well in the "information yearns to be free" era; I'm sure I saw that article crossposted all over the Web last month. But I greatly appreciate your playing by the rules here. Except that I spent a minute trying to figure out if this was a new thing or the same article, and then a minute more wondering whether there was a special reason for reposting it now...
Wonder how many banks will give you a turkey or ham to open an account this year? Ah nostalgia, remember those days of getting a free toaster if you opened an account? ha.
Like I said at the time, these bank runs were not irrational. Indymac and WaMu would have collapsed merely from depositors withdrawing only their balance above the FDIC limit at the time.
They were pikers back then. As we learned on the overnight thread last night, the U.S. market decline (priced in gold, as the DOW effectively was in 1929-1932 with the $20/ounced gold standard) has been continuing since 1999. That's not just months, or even years -- it's a decade, folks.
Now, I'm not a gold bug, and the only gold my wife and I own is some small jewelry, but that datum gives one pause.
"Will history repeat? Do you have some cash carefully Sealyized? "
I tried that at the height of the bank runs last time. My wife ended using the cash to get some amazing bargains on craigslist. 80% off retail I believe for some European bathroom fixtures.
They're going to keep investing in America until it breaks our back. And I, for one, welcome Hu, our benevolent new overlord. Can't be worse than our current oligarchy.
I would think that it will be tough to sustain, once China's own oligarchy gets to the point where they can make more money off of a CNY bump than perpetuating the depreciation. Unless, of course, they are in dollars too.
the U.S. market decline (priced in gold, as the DOW effectively was in 1929-1932 with the $20/ounced gold standard) has been continuing since 1999. That's not just months, or even years -- it's a decade, folks.
Information asymmetries are by far the most dangerous aspects of the current crisis. Lack of regulatory concern on the issue exacerbates. There is no unwind, there is only reset.
BofA just called and cancelled my credit card- I would not provide them with informatin concerning my current liquid assets (some strange guy on the phone calls and I am going to tell him what?)
Funny thing is I just paid off the balance- he also told me my other BofA card had been cancelled several months ago- WITHOUT NOTICE TO ME.
Thanks AllenM. I had a large chunk of savings that the local credit union no longer wanted (they dropped the rate from 1.5% to 0.25% over the last 4 months, with the final straw being from 0.7% to 0.25% on Monday). I was looking around at where it could go. BofA was in the running as they have a new savings account paying upwards of 1%. But I see no reason to lend them my money if they are playing those games with you.
I would think that it will be tough to sustain, once China's own oligarchy gets to the point where they can make more money off of a CNY bump than perpetuating the depreciation. Unless, of course, they are in dollars too.
What would be tough to sustain? It's clear that China can sanitize immense amounts of forex intervention and they can use "diversification" of their USD holdings as a sneaky tactic to cheapen their exports to Europe and other places. Oligarchs in China built their empire on exports, and I think they would be quite happy to see the Middle Kingdom and their own empires both thrive as the dominant economic power in the world.
Forcing America to stew in deflation is the perfect way to do it. Yes, it's Machiavellian of me, but I don't think we have the balls to impose the tariffs necessary to battle the peg. Because our oligarchs, who rely on control of capital markets or multi-nationals, have very different loyalties than China's.
"I wouldn't look at gold, it's not tangible, it's not fungible, I would look at coal, steel.... etc etc"
Apparently exists only in the mind of the holder. All of you flipping gold coins through your fingers or gently caressing gold bars? It's all a figment of your imagination. A form of mental illness, in actuality.
If this market actually topped out at 10,000 ... it proves WITHOUT ANY DOUBT that the rally was totally manufactured. What heck is the significance of the number 10,000? It is simply a psychological goal for GS to achieve mass euphoria and dump their holdings into the "greater fools".
Oh, I agree, but I think everyone can start to expect these kind of calls- the mod has not even be completed, and we have zero lates- they just didn't like my other credit card debts- but the number was not updated.
It just tempts me to play bando and start defaulting on everything to get lower payoffs, since that seems to work quite well- see recent posts on zerohedge.
It also means, quite frankly, that even though I have a bank account with them, they just don't want the business.
Of course, maybe I am just subprime now, finally;-P
Of course, interest rates have to start rising sometime soon, or we will be really screwed if we have savings.
Once again- financial calvinball stalks the land!!!
Atlas Shrugged meme peaked out several months ago. I'm fairly sure the meme was largely a function of a small group of Rand supporters trying to manipulate propagation. The same thing happened in 2005.
@Byzantine Ruins - I'll assume that you have no real counter-argument to my "complexity for nothing" statement since your reply consisted of mostly of personal attacks. Dysfunctional design stems from dysfunctional analysis, which is often a function of dysfunctional goals. Diversity for diversity's sake, complexity for complexity's sake and globalism for globalism's sake are pointless convolutions which eventually fail.
And given that the DIF wasn't large enough to absorb all of the insured deposits, how long might it have taken to get your cash if you had to wait for the FDIC and Treasury to fight it out over where the cash was going to come from?
"Thanks AllenM. I had a large chunk of savings that the local credit union no longer wanted (they dropped the rate from 1.5% to 0.25% over the last 4 months, with the final straw being from 0.7% to 0.25% on Monday). I was looking around at where it could go. BofA was in the running as they have a new savings account paying upwards of 1%. But I see no reason to lend them my money if they are playing those games with you."
Schwab bank is offering around 1.3% for their savings accounts right now.
HSBC is offering 1.85% for a 12 mos CD
ING is offering 1.75% for a 12 mos CD
both allow you to break them but you lose 3 months of interest.
noob goldberg (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Wed, 10/28/2009 - 2:59 pm
HollywoodHack wrote:
"I wouldn't look at gold, it's not tangible, it's not fungible, I would look at coal, steel.... etc etc"
Apparently In glod we trust exists only in the mind of the holder. All of you flipping gold coins through your fingers or gently caressing gold bars? It's all a figment of your imagination. A form of mental illness, in actuality.
OTOH, your Mar-2011 straddle on that synthetic ETF that's algorithmically traded to model USD/Yen?? Totally real.
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”**
Soon, their own customers began asking, “Is my money safe?”
Actually, their customers were asking, "Whaddaya mean this FDIC cashier's check from the closure of my account at IndyMac will be frozen for EIGHT WEEKS??"
WaMu practically told their customers to have a run on them.
I've gotten a bit sick of physically moving money between different banks. Lose a week of interest here and there. I'm trying to set it up so that I have a set of banks with open accounts that I can ACH money between as the rates change.
And one final note. BoA has a local branch on a main thoroughfare to a wealthy portion of town. What do you think the results are if I set out my lawnchair before 7:00 AM some morning next week?
Or the diaper on noob's two year old. Hey noob, when you potty train, are you gonna tell him to man up?
We haven't started yet, but this past weekend I finished giving him a bath and suddenly he said he wanted to pee on the toilet. This was the first time he'd ever said anything like this, so I lifted him onto the toilet and held him there. After about 30 seconds, when it became apparent that nothing was happening, he looked down between his legs and yelled "COME ON, PEE, HURRY UP".
I figure if he's already figured out how to yell at his weiner, there's not much else I can teach him.
I'm trying to set it up so that I have a set of banks with open accounts that I can ACH money between as the rates change.
Be sure to set up the transfer accounts in both directions. I discovered that you can't always initiate a large ACH transfer in the receiving direction - you need to be able to initiate from the end that the money is coming from.
BofA just called and cancelled my credit card- I would not provide them with informatin concerning my current liquid assets (some strange guy on the phone calls and I am going to tell him what?)
Reported by a few but largely ignored, WAMU was approaching boiling point when myself and friends liquidated. Watching the Indymac debacle was enough for me. Two days the doors were locked with restricted access, then when people, already pissed, got their money, it was in two week post dated checks. I think FDIC learned after that.
Schwab bank is offering around 1.3% for their savings accounts right now.
HSBC is offering 1.85% for a 12 mos CD
ING is offering 1.75% for a 12 mos CD
both allow you to break them but you lose 3 months of interest.
Thanks. I actually was going to avoid BAC anyway, and for the same reasons I'd avoid HSBC and ING. I want to lend as locally as possible to an institution that hasn't grossly offended me and isn't obviously in deep financial trouble. Not too many choices, though! I'm researching Union Bank after various recommendations (thanks sm_landlord) and also USAA where we have a longstanding relationship via insurance. I may check out Schwab also now...
Not surprising...they should have just got rid of ATF, fired managers, and reassigned agents to FBI. No govt program can ever be cancelled, apparently.
Schwab bank is offering around 1.3% for their savings accounts right now.
HSBC is offering 1.85% for a 12 mos CD
ING is offering 1.75% for a 12 mos CD
both allow you to break them but you lose 3 months of interest.
The bank of me is offering 5.375%. I've pulled a good deal of my cash out of the bank and money market funds and plunked it down to pay down my mortgage. I'll regret it if inflation jumps in the next 5 years or so, but I don't see that happening with the banks cutting the availability of credit at every opportunity. We are stuck in a deflationary black hole and Bernanke's hyper-drive at full power has only been able to hold us on the outer edge. Ben's fuel is running low and soon we will be sucked into the abyss. Besides, my stomach would get upset every month when I'd send $600 worth of interest off to Wells Fargo.
Ally (GMAC) is paying 1.7% on savings and 1.85% on a 9 month no penalty CD. Of course the recent news about GMAC needing more capital from Timmy makes me wonder if Ally account holders won't be getting a firsthand lesson in how the FDIC handles a bank failure.
... just my way of participating as a proud citizen of "bailout nation".
One nice feature of absurdly concentrated wealth is that titles to assets, if not the actual wealth, become easier for the public to locate.
The Queen still has tons of precious jewels in her name. Of course she can't ever cash at any price even to a fence. All "real" (French for royal) property is both public and private. Transfer of real titles pursuant to the French Revolution was mainly from the Catholic Church to the new "public" authority.
Real titles are just titular, but I suppose whether the name "George Bailey" is on the door or "Maiden Lane X" matters if you're trying to avoid a pitchfork.
Ben B.:
"The money's in Jamie's house, and Lloyd's, and, and Hank's...I swear on my life"
I'm trying to set it up so that I have a set of banks with open accounts that I can ACH money between as the rates change.
Same idea here. I've got a homegrown network-graphing software tool (adapted from a long-ago project) that helps me keep track of what's allowed to move where.
This also facilitates a "buckets of money" budgeting system, where the bank accounts effectively handle the accounting for you (no more Quicken).
And by having the transaction information distributed among multiple institutions, it might help keep the marketers from seeing the whole picture. Thanks to automated ACH transfers the system doesn't even add that much in weekly money management.
Report: FBI and ATF Rivalry May Affect War on Terrorism - TIME
Well, at least they weren't shooting at each other. However, if the Department of Homeland Security were to show up next time... Could be like a Spaghetti Western.
Just on the Ally (GMAC) website. They currently have an adlline reading "It's your money, not ours!"
I'm guessing their marketing folks didn't think too long about how taxpayers might interpret that statement. "Damn right it's ours, and we want it back!"
i believe that they did it exactly the right way- pulled out all the assets and deposits and turned then over to JPM- leaving bond holders, executives etc will holding company claims with no assets to speak off. That is exactly what they should have done with all the banks. Substitute a government capitalized bank in place of JPM.
Disagree. This happened to at least four of my unused cards. Check your unused cards to see if they are still active.
I dare you!
I agree banks don't send letters when closing inactive accounts - but I would be very surprised if they are making phone calls asking about liquid assets - this sounds like several of the phishing schemes that have been going around trying to get account data out of unsuspecting individuals.
It takes a while, but the obvious usually occurs to me after a little while...
the reason Congress doesn't care if the Fed blatantly usurps the power of the purse is because the Fed has agreed to print unlimited sums to buy Congress' debt. Don't know why that didn't occur to me a year ago, when the Fed monetization-through-worthless-assets scheme began to approach obscene levels.
The bank of me is offering 5.375%. I've pulled a good deal of my cash out of the bank and money market funds and plunked it down to pay down my mortgage.
I was going to do some of that, but then I realized that my home equity is on that razor-thin line where, if TSHTF (a 2-point failure of local housing market and current employment situation), I might want to have the option available to strategically default.
Then I realized that insured general-obligation muni bonds are paying more (after tax effects) than my mortgage. So I shifted some money into munis. Both in funds and now individual bonds. Vanguard has a half-decent platform for buying individual bonds without paying too much in fees (at least for a 5-10 year buy-and-hold timeframe). Never realized I'd be doing interest-rate arbitrage, but here we are...
they should have just got rid of ATF, fired managers, and reassigned agents to FBI.
So who shall investigate the FBI?
Please keep rival government agencies and incentives for ratting on one another, for god's sake. The more the better. That's market competition I'll always stick up for.
maybe, Rich, but I'm in no rush to rejoin the TBT knucklehead club.
I'm unconvinced that the Fed won't be able to keep effective ZIRP rates going even if we hit 1-5 euro, 5K gold, $300 crude, et al. They have this thing called a printing press, and it can buy Ts forever and a day.
There are FDIC insured no cap reward accounts available nationally at 3% and locally at 4+%. Anyone satisfied with a US $ yield below 3% is foolish. My US pesos are all earning at least 4%.
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”**
"It's not a lie if you believe it."
-- George Costanza
Disagree. This happened to at least four of my unused cards. Check your unused cards to see if they are still active.
And, if you think you might need the credit on any of those cards in the next wave of crisis, make sure you keep them active. (Small automated purchases each month, paid off each month...) We have a couple of cards like this as part of a "defense in depth" strategy in case the credit crisis metastasizes further. (If one of our "everyday use" card companies folds suddenly, we still want to be able to buy stuff.) After the market action this week, I'm also replenishing our cash cache (aka "Bank of Sealy").
Final thought on last thread (and many threads to come) for you true believers...if you think the government(or factions/parts of the government) lied about this, how do you know they didn't lie about that...
I find it fascinating that, after the months of discussion on this board, the CR Commentariat is only just now beginning to realize that this shit storm is going to affect them as well.
We have a couple of cards like this as part of a "defense in depth" strategy in case the credit crisis metastasizes further.
Man, these financial doomer strategies are so much more boring than planing for a zombie invasion. The post financial collapse movies aren't going to be very exciting to watch - at least the part leading up to the collapse.
Lots of branded gas cards got canceled with no calls or letters.
If you are talking Citi, they can cancel first and then send the letter on the active accounts - they do not send letters on accounts classified as inactive.
I find it fascinating that, after the months of discussion on this board, the CR Commentariat is only just now beginning to realize that this shit storm is going to affect them as well.
Can't say we haven't been warning them, and for quite a while at that.
I find it fascinating that, after the months of discussion on this board, the CR Commentariat is only just now beginning to realize that this shit storm is going to affect them as well.
Yah, they TARP'ed everything over for a while there, but now the entrails of the economy are starting to flow out into the open again.
Wonder how those GMAC homes/mortgages are looking right about now? No one ever talks about THAT. I'm wondering if Ally was a brainy-ack moment to switch those gears.
I do not trust any of the banks currently, even the small ones. Like I said previously, the FDIC is a relic and artifact of an ancient financial system; it was made a relic by the repeal of Glass-Steagall. Since, their looses have included RRE/CRE losses on speculation, CC losses. It simply does not have the tools or resources to deal with the magnitude of losses that are coming. Yeah, yeah...blah, blah...the treasury will print money. If one of the TBTFs actually does, then what? (Say Citi or BoA). It doesn't soothe me that just the Corus bank failure alone cost the DIF just $2billion. So, I'm in standby mode.
Our unused cards got cancelled last year very abruptly.
Which I guess means I'm still a charter member of the TBT knucklehead club. I even have my lyrics to TNT ready for whenever the long bond really does roll over.
Whether an economy generates asset price inflation or consumer price inflation depends on the details of to whom cash flows. In particular, cash flows to the relatively wealthy lead to asset price inflation, while cash-flows to the relatively poor lead to consumer price inflation," he writes. "Except when the world seems very risky, no one holds cash for very long. Poorer people disproportionately use their cash to purchase goods, while richer people disproportionately 'save' by purchasing financial assets. If the supply of both goods and financial assets is not perfectly elastic, then increases in demand will be associated with increases in price. If relative demand for goods and financial assets is a function of the distribution of cash, what price changes occur will be a function of who gets what." Waldman concludes, "We need to build a system where changes in asset prices reflect the quality of real economic decisions, and where the playing field isn't tilted against the poor and disorganized in the name of promoting price stability.
listening to some of the comments regarding Credit Cards- when did having a credit card at terms you like become a right?
Don't like how the banks are treating you - hand back the credit card. To me all this grousing about banks is just a reflection of the entitlement mentality. I want everything but don't have to work or pay for it.
Final thought follow-up...Does the stock market(conceptual collective entity) and related 'brokers' and 'pundits' tell the 'Truth'? Did we know the Truth about our military adventurism (and what it costs). Do we know why this bubble started except for deregulation, derivatives, easy lending, political campaign for the 'Ownership Nation', etc. With the internet, people can research the events of the day...and New Century...have fun learning about the world as it turns...
It does have me thinking though... what about a fund based on sunspot fluctuations, and other novelty sources of semi-random information?
GS, through a PE fund, buys a controlling stack in a aerospace firm that is working on harvesting solar energy through the use of lead shielding and glass mirrors to harness or reflect solar waves away from/to Earth. As soon as your team of scientists predict a bad solar flare due to sunspots, the brigade send out digital commands at the speed of light to their array of shields and mirrors to make the sunspot not appear--ala David Copperfield's Statue of Liberty trick. Scientists are discredited and only GS predictions on sunspots will be heeded by the herd.
.
Why?
CR Commentariat is only just now beginning to realize that this shit storm is going to affect them as well.
No, we are just like people outrunning an angry bear. Keep at least one fatter, slower person between you and bear at all times. The problem is some of us miscalculate our cardio health and endurance.
I did OK with it earlier in the year. But I've tried to short long Ts for the past 6 years, and it has been the biggest loser part of the portfolio consistently. The reality is that the Fed can create "demand" for Ts totally at will. Asian CBs bail - doesn't matter. IMO, if you're going to hedge against dollar rot, there are better methods. I'm currently exposed enough to commodities and PMs, so I'm leaning towards forex if this dollar rally extends over the next month or so.
TBT
I've just reclassified that investment as part of my retirement portfolio. I'm sure it will pay off, but it might be 20 years from now.
Careful Chainsaw... with the beta slippage on TBT, you may have nearly nothing left, 20 years from now. Also, 20 years from now Treasury yields are reasonably likely to be right about where they are now, if the 1930s-1960s era is any guide... For instance, here's a chart showing AAA corporates from 1919-present, and you can see that rates were low and stable from the mid-30s to the mid-50s.
there is no secret- people love the idea that they can get rich without working for it , that they can spend more than they earn . Wall street realized that and created a whole machine to meet that need. Essentially they took financial assets and made them the equivalent of any consumer product - with enough spin and advertising you can sell anything- pet rock? You can look for a cause, deregulation etc - but it was basic greed of the population. It is also what will make solving the problem so very difficult because no politician has the courage to tell the American people - you had a party for 20 years and now you are going to pay with a hangover. Easier to blame the booze or barman for stopping you from drinking.
nice analysis. fiat dollars are a poor form of defense against either.
it isn't 1968-1981 that is the exception corrected by appropriate policy - actually, that era is the natural state of affairs for a fiat system. it is the time since which has been a series of parlor tricks to channel that process to the benefit our richest 1%.
yagij (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Wed, 10/28/2009 - 3:34 pm
Scientists are discredited and only GS predictions on sunspots will be heeded by the herd.
.
Why?
Thanks for that. A lot more resource-intensive, expensive and involved process than the way they (presumably) manipulate "real" markets presently, but still funny to think about. And to think... we consider astrology a pseudoscience?
There are FDIC insured no cap reward accounts available nationally at 3% and locally at 4+%. Anyone satisfied with a US $ yield below 3% is foolish. My US pesos are all earning at least 4%.
Thanks for that link! Have you cross-checked the institutions listed against CR's and other "banks in trouble" lists? While the FDIC insurance is nice, I don't want to actually have to deal with the FDIC at any stage... Also, at this stage in the crisis I sort of think there are two classes of institutions that are willing to offer high yields: those that are in deep trouble and need deposits, fast... and those that think they are in no trouble and are healthy enough to grow. Unfortunately the lack of transparency in the system makes it hard to tell them apart...
I agree with Schiff that for most people who own and live in their own home, the best way to think about homes is as shelter. The mistake many made was thinking that home prices would rise forever, and somehow those rising home prices would support retirement.
Funny; this is what my Dad has told me for years (decades).
I'm finding the warnings of 'doom' and 'bad policy' were many from all parts of the political spectrum and Ivory Tower...'The Great Reckoning' is no surprise...
With all the talk of bank runs, how does one go about researching super safe smaller banks that aren't likely to get into any trouble in the future? I'm thinking of spreading my money into a few different bank accounts as well and I'm wary of being too reliant on the FDIC.
I just did a search on google for "safest bank in the us" and the first result returned said Wells Fargo...
IMO trying to compare the United States of the 1930- 1960 to the United States of today is just shoddy analysis. Even if the points are the same it matters a lot if you are going through those points on the way up or on the way down.
there is no secret- people love the idea that they can get rich without working for it , that they can spend more than they earn .
I heard acquaintances on numerous occasions justify their excessive debt-fueled lifestyles by saying "you can't take it with you". It was like some sort of a mantra.
I find it fascinating that, after the months of discussion on this board, the CR Commentariat is only just now beginning to realize that this shit storm is going to affect them as well.
mp wrote on Thu, 11/8/2007 - 12:10 pm
Conjure and I are making too much money today to waste our time on this.
mp wrote:
The only thing credit cards are good for is forcing you to pay higher prices.
That, and ordering stuff online. Most of the stuff that I buy for my business is not available in brick and mortar locations any more.
I agree with Schiff that for most people who own and live in their own home, the best way to think about homes is as shelter. The mistake many made was thinking that home prices would rise forever, and somehow those rising home prices would support retirement.
Funny; this is what my Dad has told me for years (decades).
Well, it worked for your Dad! It's just not going to work for YOU. Remember when you were a kid, and Dad always beat you at checkers? Guess what ... the old man just won again!
You may very well be right about rates staying flat line for the next 20 years. I would actually find that pretty reassuring as it would mean the US Govt hasn't lost its ability to borrow. That's what I'm truly worried about, and also why I think long rates will eventually be forced higher.
IIRC the US's fiscal outlook today is worse than at any time other than WWII. If that doesn't eventually result in higher long term rates, I may actually find something to be impressed about Ben and Timmy.
Don't like how the banks are treating you - hand back the credit card.To me all this grousing about banks is just a reflection of the entitlement mentality. I want everything but don't have to work or pay for it.
Um, no. I can pay for it, but as long as we were dancing, I was dancing too- now I want my bailout, and muy pronto!!
After all, it is not their money until I decide to pay it back. If ever.
Now when the rest of the country goes pirate- arrrrrgh!!!
I had some fun discussion with Tanta about this, she is passed, but I am still dancing, and if they want their money now- well pennies on the dollar boys!!!
mp wrote:
I find it fascinating that, after the months of discussion on this board, the CR Commentariat is only just now beginning to realize that this shit storm is going to affect them as well.
crazyv: That is partly true I would say. But you also have to realize that for a huge segment of the population, mainly the disappearing middle class, credit was the only way to stay up with demands as wages didn't keep up.
There is a lot of blame to go around, we can all say we are part of the problem even those of us who didn't play the game. There are also a whole boatload of innocent bystanders in dire straights. People still are one illness/injury, one paycheck away from complete total unrecoverable financial disaster.
I have a whole lot more empathy for those trying to make it or stay on their feet than the freeloading bankstas who want your pie, my pie now and into the next century.
It was actually true tho. If you think your debt can be refinanced forever, then you'd be foolish NOT to get as much debt as you can before you die. The US - as a country - still knows it never has to pay off the national debt, just keep refinancing. That's why it's still expanding. They'd be stupid NOT to expand it.
The reason we have all these focus on terrorism has nothing to do with Al Qaeda. What the powers to be are concerned about is domestic revolution. They are slowly but surely closing of every opportunity of the masses to get out from underneath the oppression. Mind game -if the British had in 1776 the powers that our government has today would there even have been an United States?
It's a good idea as long as you die before the bill comes due. Just like all other kinds of financial planning, timing & execution are key.
I'm not certain about that. High debt levels minimize flexibility when seeking out a new job, changing housing requirements, or even getting a different vehicle, and certainly it adds stress to relationships, often leading to divorce. I can't imagine that it's worth the few extra baubles.
Let me tell you, when I pull out the wad, people listen.
Point taken, but adding to others' replies: not all of us want everyone in town to understand our financial position. As with animals in the jungle, so for shoppers in a city: camouflage comes at a cost but also has a value.
noob goldberg (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Wed, 10/28/2009 - 3:43 pm
I heard acquaintances on numerous occasions justify their excessive debt-fueled lifestyles by saying "you can't take it with you". It was like some sort of a mantra.
Not just "like" a mantra, it IS a mantra. Live life making interest payments, then interest on interest, then interest on interest on interest, etc. Then, presumably, die or disappear. HAHAHAHA! It's someone else's problem now! Party on, Garth!
If this market actually topped out at 10,000 ... it proves WITHOUT ANY DOUBT that the rally was totally manufactured.
While I don't deny that the run up was manufactured, I don't see anything significant about 10k. If we had 4 digits on each had, you might then think there was something significant about 8000?
Anyone have any experience with an etf of non-US TIPS? Forget the ticker.
Fiat currencies come and go, but paper claims to title have generally retained some exchange value in the last thousand years, even post Communist Revolution. Beats the testimony about some twigs system that preceded it.
"Testimony" got its name because only males could own title to property or appear in court to settle disputes about them.
I have a debit account that I use for internet purchases. It was specifically set up for that. If someone gets the account number, there's very little cash in it.
As far as rentals/hotels/trucks are concerned, my cash has always been welcome.
As for cars, I don't rent cars. People loan me cars or they give me rides. I also use cabs.
Even if the points are the same it matters a lot if you are going through those points on the way up or on the way down.
Rates today are on the long tail of a long decline, just as they were in the 1930s. While the historical analogy isn't perfect, I think the analogy is reasonable enough to require some serious thought.
Another way of looking at it is this: if interest rates rise more than a couple % from where they are now, especially on the short end, the U.S. government is hosed just from the increase in debt-service expenditures. It won't matter if you have TBT or not.
when i tell people there is no fundamental basis for equities to be priced as high as they are right now, they get annoyed with me. they say things: "trying to follow fundamentals, you would never buy into the market". maybe they'll catch on, eventually
yes and all those people who were having a hard timing making it what were they doing? What have been the dominant political issues in the last 15 years- gun control , gay marriage, abortion . Sure the pusher deserves to be jailed- but you are not going to win the war on drugs until people stop doing drugs.
Who was the innocent bystander that we are talking about? The person whose house is now worth half as much? It misses the point that it wouldn't have been worth that but for all the games that were being played.
noob goldberg (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Wed, 10/28/2009 - 3:49 pm
I'm not certain about that. High debt levels minimize flexibility when seeking out a new job, changing housing requirements, or even getting a different vehicle, and certainly it adds stress to relationships, often leading to divorce. I can't imagine that it's worth the few extra baubles.
In a society where your perceived social worth as an individual is measured by those baubles, it means everything.
I have no problems with VISA. We booked a flight a couple years ago and the operator went out of business the day before departure. Without VISA we would have been out the entire amount, such as were those who paid by debit. After a claim we were reimbursed the full amount. My card also gives me free insurance on rental cars, so I save cash everytime I rent a car. And since the SO works for a bank, we don't pay an annual fee.
"Testimony" got its name because only males could own title to property or appear in court to settle disputes about them.
Learn something new everyday. I didn't know that. Now I can tell about the genesis of the word hysteria, hint-hysterectomy is related. lol. I wanna see some testosterone heavy traders with a hysteria moment-yup I am sick and twisted.
Credit Cards / Debit Cards. Just convinces, nothing more or less. If there were no credit/debit cards I'd miss mine; much more than cell phones or the internet actually. I seldom have more than 20 bucks in my wallet.
As somebody who worked for a Swiss bank I can tell you that we purchased UST not for the yield but because we wanted some protection in case the Russian's came marching in. If I were working for a Swiss bank today I certainly wouldn't be purchasing UST for that purpose. In fact I would question the whole premise of investing in the US given the penchant of the US to apply extra territorial authority.
I just think looking at charts from the 1930-1960 and trying to draw a correlation between that and today without making adjustments for the entire economic back drop just isn't analysis. A country rising to global domination has a very different underlying structure than a country that is giving back its global dominance.
no politician has the courage to tell the American people - you had a party for 20 years and now you are going to pay with a hangover.
NOPE: My hero Gov. Paterson did so just yesterday on CNBC.
But he is a blind fool and only accidental Governor. Even Obama believes he can't win. Not some idiot who can't even see the emperor's beautiful suit from spitting distance.
A VICTORY for the peasants who have call THEIR representatives. Democracy still works. And remember to vote for one of the two major parties in the next election.
I'll also add that even though I rarely carry cash on my person, we definitely keep a bunch in a safe at home. The eastern seaboard blackout of 2003 was enough to convince us of that necessity.
I can't believe that we are even debating whether it is more convenient to have a credit card or not. IMO it clearly is - but is it essentially clearly no. My point is since when did something that is convenient become a "right". Don't like the terms offered for the convenience don't take the card -simple as that .
Sure. They have managed to insert themselves as "credit intermediaries", if you will.
In the old days, when I could buy almost everything I needed at local brick&mortar institutions, I would establish an account at the businesses that I transacted with. Then either myself or my employee could sign for purchases as needed, and I would send them a check at the end of the month based on the transaction receipts.
The CC companies have taken over that function. And now that I have to deal with vendors all over the map, it's convenient. Of course, the fact that I have to deal with vendors all over the map is probably because it's now practical to do so. And now, I pay for delivery explicitly, rather than the cost being bundled into the price that a local vendor would charge, if they still existed.
A VICTORY for the peasants who have call THEIR representatives. Democracy still works. And remember to vote for one of the two major parties in the next election.
What a slogan! "The USA. Now slightly less corrupt. (Your measurement may vary)."
Mastercard just wrote me a check for the full amount of a failed TV we purchased 21 months ago. It was out of the manufacturer's 1 year warranty, but our Mastercard carried the double warranty benefit.
We also take the cash back they offer. Why not? Doesn't cost us a penny since we pay in full every month.
The discussion of the pros and cons on credit cards reminded me of another discussion our payments industry has been having - with mobile payments, what happenss when you lose the cell phone?
the one good part of this crappy Congress- no more political donations. Can't believe I wasted all that money donating to Obama when I could have gotten all these policies for free.
The result of credit destruction or liquidity contraction is a primarily cash based society where you purchase what you need with your currency from income. Uh oh. What if the credit is gone, jobs dry up, the cash is 'devalued' and the prices go up? Landless peasantry. The spinmeisters have to find a way to make this sound cool...
All I ask is that you give a moment's thought as to WHY you believe it.
Because the card industry has been paying my bills for 25 years and have allowed me to live a comfortable lifestyle (I provide legal services to payments companies)
well put MP, and I would posit that cash itself isn't just a credit-based entitry, it is a credit-based representation of a political entity, which utterly fails most historical definitions of "money".
They all had runs as people reduced their savings to below the FDIC limit. I recall an issue with businesses pulling million dollar balances out of deposit accounts used for payroll.
However much CNBS wants it to be, until the next better story comes around.
I just read where their ratings are waayyy down due to the 'all clear' market ramp and some of the shows might be cancelled. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see them go to spur viewership.
"If the card goes away, it's not the end of the world. It is helpful to have, but I generally use the debit card or cash. "
I had my debit card stolen without me realizing it until the next day. Within a couple of hours my account was over-drawn by 10k. Including two $4000 dollar money transfers at the same store within 15 minutes of each other.
I got everything back but it was a LOT harder then dealing with fraudulent charges on a CC.
I never carry a visa/mastercard bank card anymore. All my cards are plain ATM cards now.
In the old days, when I could buy almost everything I needed at local brick&mortar institutions, I would establish an account at the businesses that I transacted with. Then either myself or my employee could sign for purchases as needed, and I would send them a check at the end of the month based on the transaction receipts
You folks are free to believe whatever you want to believe. All I ask is that you give a moment's thought as to WHY you believe it.
Hee hee --- Because someone else is paying the spread!
All transactions have costs. Someone pays those costs. The smart amoral scumbags have created a system in which the merchant pays a nice fee for their service, and then they pass some of that fee back to the cardholder as benefits. (And then there are the fees from those who don't pay off their card every month.)
Now, does the fee push up the price for everyone? Maybe, but maybe not. Cash transactions have their own agency costs, though. Cash has a fairly high management /labor overhead (armored cars, safes, sticky fingers...).
I'd like to see a world with nothing but cash and debit cards, personally. If the debit cards had all the functionality of credit cards (e.g. could be used for hotel and rental car deposits)...
"camouflage comes at a cost but also has a value. "
Amen brother....the less the people around you know about you the better. I said it yesterday....all of my neighbors think I stay at home and watch the grass grow...have never told them what I do, when I do it and why. It's much better that way.
But if you want to try and get in my house you'll meet with two things.... a big dog with a penchant for showing his teeth and failing that you can meet Mr. Mossberg 12 gauge.
Glenn Beck is doing a reasonably good exposition on the money supply and lending, much better than his prior flops. I totally disagree with the conclusions he's peddling, but this will help amp up the political pressure on the Fed and Treasury to allow deflation to happen.
Nanoo: the olde Lords thought the hand on the heart was the inferior mechanism for eliciting truth under oath. Their judges still wear wigs, and ours the robes, but otherwise Lady Justice tries to appear genderless.
Men can apparently lie even with a hand on their brains, it has been learned...
Massive inflation and interest rates "over 20%", but possibly as high as 40%. He's also stating that building an economy on top of borrowing and spending rather than production is bad.
"How do you get out of this system," he asks rhetorically. "Well, to pay off the $105 trillion debt and clean all this up," his conjecture: "how about we just print enough money to pay off the debt over time? Sure, it'll be worthless, but we'll be able to 'honor' our agreement. We'll be able to give the Chinese their money back.... But then, what's left? Somebody's got to have thought this through. How do you restart the country? You have to have something to back the currency. Gold, gold would be a good one, ah!" But there's not enough gold in the world. So, now we're on to Weimar Republic analogies and the new marks, and a suggestion that a new currency in America would be backed by land, via Fannie and Freddie's ownership of land.
This is farking nuts, but it's still strongly resonant with a lot of America.
I find it fascinating that, after the months of discussion on this board, the CR Commentariat is only just now beginning to realize that this shit storm is going to affect them as well.
Yeah. Some regular was like, "If you don't have $40,000 dollars saved for retirement by 30 you have a problem" or something similar. I was like, "in American dollars?"
Social change-
We are joining a globalized workforce club or 'lesser people's club'. Now supposedly the U.S. citizens and government had it coming. It's a club with state directed wage workers or chronic unemployment and little or no accumulation of 'middle class wealth'...was this voted on?
He's pushing against the Amero, from what I can tell, but knows in his guts that the Amero is coming because that's what history has taught him. "It boils down to this. What if the dollar collapses within 3, 5, 8 years? This is the only plan I can come up with, and historically speaking, it's the only one I can find."
Then he started saying something about China shooting bears in the head, and being worse stewards of the world than us, before he was cut off by an abrupt cut to commercial with elves dancing on hamburgers.
Geebus, I was in banking when the Bank Americard was handed out, and everyone was cross trained so banksters couldn't rob the bank and people had names instead of numbers on their accounts and I had to work overtime one year to number all the accounts, AND you feel old.
We are joining a globalized workforce club or 'lesser people's club'. Now supposedly the U.S. citizens and government had it coming. It's a club with state directed wage workers or chronic unemployment and little or no accumulation of 'middle class wealth'...
Is that the rumor Chuck Schumer started?
No, wait, that was IndyMac.
"Kirsten Grind" sounds like a stage name. Just saying.
From previous thread:
Apparently carrying such a bag gets you a good gig in the US Justice Dept.
there is truth to the idea that one can "manage" the populace through visuals.
is there any doubt that Indymac and Northern Rock fell partially due to the pictures/video of people trying to get out their money.
I doubt we'll be allowed to see many more bank lines again.
on a side note: this is one reason (of many) why our depression (if it happens) might "look" different than the Great Depression... we have more social programs and thus less soup lines, Hobos, and Hoovervilles...
a picture is worth a thousand words.
University of Phoenix only got a leg up when Intel greenlighted paying for masters degree courses for employees. Unfortunately a couple of years back Intel realized that these courses were one giant
that they pulled the plug. Hence the rise of financial aid %.
What you don't know can hurt you.
I am starting to see some red shoots.
Mr. Market has hit bottom, and begun digging.
Did Hu get pissed at us (or something)? Why is the market so down today?
9.4 Billion
Some one has a very large sealy.
I would love to know how much of that money is still buried in peoples back yards. Once you get scared enough to do a bank run - do you ever trust them again?
started to read the article
it keeps mentioning that the DIF did not take a hit
is my memory faulty or wasn't there a loss share transaction?
@ Uncle:
.
Not saying any more, but if Liberty is suffering financially, there may be a God.
I recall similar montas.
Don't worry, the market will be up MEGA tomorrow, or maybe in an hour.
Two more days like today to finish the week and October will be an outside month. Kermit got some 'splaining to do.
Unless we're expecting more bank runs in the immediate future, isn't this a month old?
"Government helping a bank is stimulus - government helping somebody else is socialist." "Stimulus of the "private" sector is good for the public."
Private/public sector semantic distinction is a thought-terminating false dichotomy.
Pwnzi (profile) wrote on Wed, 10/28/2009 - 2:37 pm
What you don't know can hurt you.
So can what you DO know! (overeducated? overqualified?) Fate is an equal-opportunity employer.
montas ankle, no - that is correct. DIF did not take a hit and there wasn't any loss share. I think the FDIC arranged that deal just in time.
There are details about the negotiations in the article. All these banks were pouring over the books - and then just stopped. That was a bad sign ...
best wishes
This shoots a gaping hole in John Hempton's theory that the WaMu takeover by JPM orchestrated by FDIC was an illegal shafting of shareholders/bondholders He was flogging the idea for quite awhile that WaMu was perfectly fine and that JPM used FDIC to grab market share.
JPM got the company as essentially payment for taking over the exposure on WaMu's loan book.
Maybe Hu cried fowl to The Bankers Bonus's, know if someone owed me that much and I saw them riding in limo's it would piss me off. Rumor has it the pumper is tired and taken the day off.
Wisdom Speaker, they release it behind a firewall for a month, and then release it to the general public. It is available to everyone now ... and since this is a historical piece, the release date isn't critical - it is interesting reading.
best wishes
Yearning to Learn wrote:
Every conceivable metric of genuine 'growth' which can't be gamed by trillions of Fed "dollars" shows that we've been in one for a while. Tax receipts, unemployment, etc etc...
sorry CR, my mistake
I just searched your site and found the info in the archives
JP took the entire loan portfolio (and a massive write down at the time - with EPS benefits) and the entire deposit base
the shareholders were wiped out, and the bondholders got around 8 to 10 cents on the dollar
seems like it was too easy...
CRVIX way up!
Greetings to my favorite collection of doomers. Thought I'd stop by and wish you all well. I noticed dryfly's question in an earlier thread - about how people around us are reacting to current events (i.e., are they in denial, sitting around waiting for Law & Order reruns?):
I'd say that most of my suburban, 30-something contemporaries are goon bonging the
koolaid. If they were worried before, they've got their heads back up their bums again now. They are happy to have an excuse to go back to the mall and buy crap they don't need with money they don't have. Sure, a friend of a friend is out of work but don't be so negative (shhh! you'll scare the kids!)
"Everything is going to be okay," they tell each other over lattes. "God is in his McMansion and all is right with the world."
Meanwhile, my last big purchase was a dozen bags of sheepshit to work into the garden before it freezes. The garden is the backyard, where the lawn used to be. I've stopped caring what the neighbors think, and am flying the freak flag high.
Just my guess, if the market drops under 7000 again there will be bank runs.
J6P knows how bad off the banks are. He had to pay out of his pocket to keep them in business. So J6P will take his money and run, thinking the banks won't get it this time.
Of course J6P doesn't understand that Ben's
of pixels is where they really get the "money".
josap wrote:
Nonsense, his grandkids and the nice chinese people folks holding our dollar-denominated debt are the ones to pay - J6P is still paying incredibly low marginal rates.
Happy 1929 (Second) Crash Day (in case you've forgotten the buy the booze and chocolate)
Four phrases—Black Thursday, Black Friday, then Black Monday, and Black Tuesday—are commonly used to describe this collapse of stock values. All four are appropriate, for the crash was not a one-day affair. The initial crash occurred on Thursday, October 24, 1929, but the catastrophic downturn of Monday, October 28 and Tuesday, October 29 precipitated widespread alarm and the onset of an unprecedented and long-lasting economic depression for the United States and the world. This stock market collapse continued for a month.
Will history repeat? Do you have some cash carefully Sealyized?
monta,
Yes, it seems easy, but WaMu would have blown out the DIF all by itself. CR's documented the recklessness of their lending and the scale of it.
Treasury should hire the Video Professor to sell some micro mini 3% 30 year zero coupon bonds on Fox TV.
"Try my product."
"Try my product."
"Try my product."
Kick Off the next drop in the Credit Crunch/Depression
BofA just called and cancelled my credit card- I would not provide them with informatin concerning my current liquid assets (some strange guy on the phone calls and I am going to tell him what?)
Funny thing is I just paid off the balance- he also told me my other BofA card had been cancelled several months ago- WITHOUT NOTICE TO ME.
They are asking for the Velvet Fist of Government- it will now be applied.
America, prepare to live without credit beyond AMEX!!!
Someday this war's gonna end...
montas ankle wrote:
Yah, that's B.S. Someone took the hit and you can bet it wasn't a JP Morgan shareholder or bondholder... But, not to worry, there really isn't a DIF anyway! At least, there wasn't. Now it's gone anyway... From what I've gleaned, the FDIC doesn't have some magical reserve of stockpiled assets stashed in a vault somewhere. It just draws on general federal revenue. In other words, the FDIC's DIF is no more real than the Social Security Trust Fund. And therefore, since the DIF is gone anyway, should the FDIC need to backstop some more large failed banks, and should the U.S. Treasury not have the cash stash ready at hand, there's a risk of bumping up against the national debt ceiling. Congress would very probably raise the debt ceiling in such a pinch, but it would also certainly have some political reverberations.
And people wonder why there is no trust remaining in the banks. There's nothing like evidence of coverups and obfuscation to reinforce my confidence in the media, leadership, and finances of America.
Long Treasuries, bullish on the dollar, and I think anyone who plays in equities or commodities in either direction is El Nutso. And all of that because I have faith in the American populace and the cynical economics of China; none of it because I trust Congress any further than the nearest woodshed for whipping.
Nemo wrote:
I'll raise my hand in shame in thinking that exact same thing as well.
Pwnzi wrote:
But what you do know can hurt WaMu.
Uncle Ar wrote:
I haven't tried to get into that department yet. You really think it'll help to bring my laundry to the interview?
Hollywood
Most J6Ps understand money one way. It is in their pocket or someone elses. Dollar bills trading places. Don't try to explain overnight lending, leverage, on - off books. Many people just don't know about anything past green paper dollars.
rosethorn - that's why it seems too easy
they let Wamu fail, and armageddon was avoided - imagine that
NOTaREALmerican wrote:
There are two ways our economy can adjust against China: they can revalue their RMB upwards(instantly bankrupting the PBOC, which holds dollars as assets, ruining their exports, and making toads of the entire CCP), or they can let differential inflation rates revalue the RMB upwards on a real basis. Wages and inflation are very low in China. Guess what that means for inflation in America?
China's not stupid. They're not going to break the peg. They're going to keep investing in America until it breaks our back. And I, for one, welcome Hu, our benevolent new overlord. Can't be worse than our current oligarchy.
Quite the panic into cash today. The only Tickerspy stock groups in the green are Diet, Tobacco, and Dialysis stocks.
Everything else is red...
CalculatedRisk wrote:
Thanks for that clarification! Their firewall doesn't work very well in the "information yearns to be free" era; I'm sure I saw that article crossposted all over the Web last month. But I greatly appreciate your playing by the rules here. Except that I spent a minute trying to figure out if this was a new thing or the same article, and then a minute more wondering whether there was a special reason for reposting it now...
josap wrote:
I'm not sure the peasants know, really.
sm_landlord wrote:
My full holdings of TLT are doing just ducky, thank you.
Go Long Bond go!!
going long obesity, lung cancer and kidney failure
Citizen AllenM wrote:
You might want to call THEM back and verify if that was really BofA.
Citizen Allen
They just got the word that you got your mod and a reduction.
So instead of figuring out you have MORE cash flow, they decided you are a higher risk.
We are all learning to hate CCs and banks.
Comrade Elmer Fudd wrote:
It warms my heart to see you betting on America.
Your patriotism is inspiring.
Wonder how many banks will give you a turkey or ham to open an account this year? Ah nostalgia, remember those days of getting a free toaster if you opened an account? ha.
Like I said at the time, these bank runs were not irrational. Indymac and WaMu would have collapsed merely from depositors withdrawing only their balance above the FDIC limit at the time.
Peet's coffee is up about 15% today too. Maybe you should go long the four food groups (caffeine, alcohol, grease and sugar).
JimPortlandOR wrote:
They were pikers back then. As we learned on the overnight thread last night, the U.S. market decline (priced in gold, as the DOW effectively was in 1929-1932 with the $20/ounced gold standard) has been continuing since 1999. That's not just months, or even years -- it's a decade, folks.
Now, I'm not a gold bug, and the only gold my wife and I own is some small jewelry, but that datum gives one pause.
"Will history repeat? Do you have some cash carefully Sealyized? "
I tried that at the height of the bank runs last time. My wife ended using the cash to get some amazing bargains on craigslist. 80% off retail I believe for some European bathroom fixtures.
Where is the Messiah of Hope and Change? I am having an existential crisis here!!!!!!!!!!!
ndk wrote:
I would think that it will be tough to sustain, once China's own oligarchy gets to the point where they can make more money off of a CNY bump than perpetuating the depreciation. Unless, of course, they are in dollars too.
Well, I admit to have been toying with modding all me debt, me hearties;-}
Ready to go Pirate if they can my mcjob...
Oh crap, that was the card linked to my US mint buys- gotta go make a quick change to keep my buffalo order in place!
Someday this war's gonna end...
Wisdom Speaker wrote:
That's deflationary, right?
Information asymmetries are by far the most dangerous aspects of the current crisis. Lack of regulatory concern on the issue exacerbates. There is no unwind, there is only reset.
speaking of not knowing anything - Terranova on CNBS:
"I wouldn't look at gold, it's not tangible, it's not fungible, I would look at coal, steel.... etc etc"
Where do they find these people?
Citizen AllenM wrote:
Thanks AllenM. I had a large chunk of savings that the local credit union no longer wanted (they dropped the rate from 1.5% to 0.25% over the last 4 months, with the final straw being from 0.7% to 0.25% on Monday). I was looking around at where it could go. BofA was in the running as they have a new savings account paying upwards of 1%. But I see no reason to lend them my money if they are playing those games with you.
Blackhalo wrote:
What would be tough to sustain? It's clear that China can sanitize immense amounts of forex intervention and they can use "diversification" of their USD holdings as a sneaky tactic to cheapen their exports to Europe and other places. Oligarchs in China built their empire on exports, and I think they would be quite happy to see the Middle Kingdom and their own empires both thrive as the dominant economic power in the world.
Forcing America to stew in deflation is the perfect way to do it. Yes, it's Machiavellian of me, but I don't think we have the balls to impose the tariffs necessary to battle the peg. Because our oligarchs, who rely on control of capital markets or multi-nationals, have very different loyalties than China's.
The poor Russell 2K: down 3.4% today - headed for $500.00
HollywoodHack wrote:
Apparently
exists only in the mind of the holder. All of you flipping gold coins through your fingers or gently caressing gold bars? It's all a figment of your imagination. A form of mental illness, in actuality.
Earlier today, C was down about 5% and don't know about BoA.
Yeah, the anecdotal is steadily piling up. This is gonna go sometime soon and I can't of two who'd I rather see gone.
And yeah, I was using the Sealyized for purchases after the situation quieted down.
HollywoodHack wrote:
Meanwhile: Metro jobless rates fall as more workers drop out - Yahoo! Finance
So we'll be needing a lot of coal, steel, ....as stocking stuffers.
If this market actually topped out at 10,000 ... it proves WITHOUT ANY DOUBT that the rally was totally manufactured. What heck is the significance of the number 10,000? It is simply a psychological goal for GS to achieve mass euphoria and dump their holdings into the "greater fools".
R2K is really down today?
On a purely theoretical basis, it's about f****** time.
I can see the prodigal son at the crest of the next hill. Soon, my boy TWM is comin' home to Papa.
shill wrote:
On another note, congrats to all SRS holders today. Nice rally for you all.
Get your SPYs and DIAs will they are still warm. At 7000 DJI will be as soft as last week's danish.
Oh, I agree, but I think everyone can start to expect these kind of calls- the mod has not even be completed, and we have zero lates- they just didn't like my other credit card debts- but the number was not updated.
It just tempts me to play bando and start defaulting on everything to get lower payoffs, since that seems to work quite well- see recent posts on zerohedge.
It also means, quite frankly, that even though I have a bank account with them, they just don't want the business.
Of course, maybe I am just subprime now, finally;-P
Of course, interest rates have to start rising sometime soon, or we will be really screwed if we have savings.
Once again- financial calvinball stalks the land!!!
Someday this war's gonna end...
shill wrote:
Not a lot of buying going on today. Makes me wonder if GS is the only one buying as everyone else panics.
I'd kill the fatted calf, but I did so last year and made jerky in prep for the dollar demise.
Atlas Shrugged meme peaked out several months ago. I'm fairly sure the meme was largely a function of a small group of Rand supporters trying to manipulate propagation. The same thing happened in 2005.
http://www.realmeme.com/roller/page/realmeme?entry=atlas_shrugged
@Byzantine Ruins - I'll assume that you have no real counter-argument to my "complexity for nothing" statement since your reply consisted of mostly of personal attacks.
Dysfunctional design stems from dysfunctional analysis, which is often a function of dysfunctional goals. Diversity for diversity's sake, complexity for complexity's sake and globalism for globalism's sake are pointless convolutions which eventually fail.
If this market actually topped out at 10,000 ... it proves WITHOUT ANY DOUBT
that you can't read. High was about 150 points over 10,000.
And given that the DIF wasn't large enough to absorb all of the insured deposits, how long might it have taken to get your cash if you had to wait for the FDIC and Treasury to fight it out over where the cash was going to come from?
"Thanks AllenM. I had a large chunk of savings that the local credit union no longer wanted (they dropped the rate from 1.5% to 0.25% over the last 4 months, with the final straw being from 0.7% to 0.25% on Monday). I was looking around at where it could go. BofA was in the running as they have a new savings account paying upwards of 1%. But I see no reason to lend them my money if they are playing those games with you."
Schwab bank is offering around 1.3% for their savings accounts right now.
HSBC is offering 1.85% for a 12 mos CD
ING is offering 1.75% for a 12 mos CD
both allow you to break them but you lose 3 months of interest.
At 7000 DJI will be as soft as last week's danish.
Or the diaper on noob's two year old. Hey noob, when you potty train, are you gonna tell him to man up?
poic,
Union Bank is paying 1.5% on a straight money market account.
noob goldberg (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Wed, 10/28/2009 - 2:59 pm
HollywoodHack wrote:
"I wouldn't look at gold, it's not tangible, it's not fungible, I would look at coal, steel.... etc etc"
Apparently In glod we trust exists only in the mind of the holder. All of you flipping gold coins through your fingers or gently caressing gold bars? It's all a figment of your imagination. A form of mental illness, in actuality.
OTOH, your Mar-2011 straddle on that synthetic ETF that's algorithmically traded to model USD/Yen?? Totally real.
**You can't handle the truth
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”**
Citizen AllenM wrote:
Then I'm safe...
Actually, their customers were asking, "Whaddaya mean this FDIC cashier's check from the closure of my account at IndyMac will be frozen for EIGHT WEEKS??"
WaMu practically told their customers to have a run on them.
poic wrote:
Yea, Schwab! Chas Schwab bank has all of my Roth IRA in savings account. I don't feel 'safe', but surely safer than Wells, BOA, or Chase.
LOL! +1
sm_landlord thanks for the info.
I've gotten a bit sick of physically moving money between different banks. Lose a week of interest here and there. I'm trying to set it up so that I have a set of banks with open accounts that I can ACH money between as the rates change.
And one final note. BoA has a local branch on a main thoroughfare to a wealthy portion of town. What do you think the results are if I set out my lawnchair before 7:00 AM some morning next week?
homedad43 wrote:
We haven't started yet, but this past weekend I finished giving him a bath and suddenly he said he wanted to pee on the toilet. This was the first time he'd ever said anything like this, so I lifted him onto the toilet and held him there. After about 30 seconds, when it became apparent that nothing was happening, he looked down between his legs and yelled "COME ON, PEE, HURRY UP".
I figure if he's already figured out how to yell at his weiner, there's not much else I can teach him.
OTOH, your Mar-2011 straddle on that synthetic ETF that's algorithmically traded to model USD/Yen?? Totally real.
Anyone want a CDS on that?
I personally liked the implications of the market bottoming at spx 666.666 - tells you a bit about where the rally came from
noob goldberg wrote:
He's ready to lead any wall street bank, for sure.
homedad43 wrote:
Bring 10 chairs and offer donuts and coffee to homeless people on the condition they sit with you for an hour.
Damb! I remember when we were joking about setting up lawn chairs in front of a WaMu branch.
poic wrote:
Be sure to set up the transfer accounts in both directions. I discovered that you can't always initiate a large ACH transfer in the receiving direction - you need to be able to initiate from the end that the money is coming from.
ResistanceIsFeudal wrote:
I laughed very hard. Thx RF.
Citizen AllenM wrote:
Likely a fraud - check with BofA
Reported by a few but largely ignored, WAMU was approaching boiling point when myself and friends liquidated. Watching the Indymac debacle was enough for me. Two days the doors were locked with restricted access, then when people, already pissed, got their money, it was in two week post dated checks. I think FDIC learned after that.
poic wrote:
Thanks. I actually was going to avoid BAC anyway, and for the same reasons I'd avoid HSBC and ING. I want to lend as locally as possible to an institution that hasn't grossly offended me and isn't obviously in deep financial trouble. Not too many choices, though! I'm researching Union Bank after various recommendations (thanks sm_landlord) and also USAA where we have a longstanding relationship via insurance. I may check out Schwab also now...
Terry wrote:
Agree. Doesn't sound like something that would be done without a formal letter anyway.
Report: FBI and ATF Rivalry May Affect War on Terrorism - TIME
Not surprising...they should have just got rid of ATF, fired managers, and reassigned agents to FBI. No govt program can ever be cancelled, apparently.
2.63 bid-to-cover ratio on the 5-year auction today. Highest ratio since October 2007.
If this flight to safety keeps up, we may be looking at another "exciting" episode on the market.
poic wrote:
The bank of me is offering 5.375%. I've pulled a good deal of my cash out of the bank and money market funds and plunked it down to pay down my mortgage. I'll regret it if inflation jumps in the next 5 years or so, but I don't see that happening with the banks cutting the availability of credit at every opportunity. We are stuck in a deflationary black hole and Bernanke's hyper-drive at full power has only been able to hold us on the outer edge. Ben's fuel is running low and soon we will be sucked into the abyss. Besides, my stomach would get upset every month when I'd send $600 worth of interest off to Wells Fargo.
Don't ask me how I know this...
Ally (GMAC) is paying 1.7% on savings and 1.85% on a 9 month no penalty CD. Of course the recent news about GMAC needing more capital from Timmy makes me wonder if Ally account holders won't be getting a firsthand lesson in how the FDIC handles a bank failure.
... just my way of participating as a proud citizen of "bailout nation".
Citizen Allen M: Most definitely someone phishing. I'd use the card to confirm and contact BofA to report the incident.
No details or link, but ...
U.S. homebuyers' tax credit to be extended through April 2010 under deal reached by key Senators, according to sources - Reuters
One nice feature of absurdly concentrated wealth is that titles to assets, if not the actual wealth, become easier for the public to locate.
The Queen still has tons of precious jewels in her name. Of course she can't ever cash at any price even to a fence. All "real" (French for royal) property is both public and private. Transfer of real titles pursuant to the French Revolution was mainly from the Catholic Church to the new "public" authority.
Real titles are just titular, but I suppose whether the name "George Bailey" is on the door or "Maiden Lane X" matters if you're trying to avoid a pitchfork.
Ben B.:
"The money's in Jamie's house, and Lloyd's, and, and Hank's...I swear on my life"
Extending the home buyer tax credit is disgusting
*Likely a fraud - check with BofA
Agree. Doesn't sound like something that would be done without a formal letter anyway. *
Disagree. This happened to at least four of my unused cards. Check your unused cards to see if they are still active.
I dare you!
poic wrote:
Same idea here. I've got a homegrown network-graphing software tool (adapted from a long-ago project) that helps me keep track of what's allowed to move where.
This also facilitates a "buckets of money" budgeting system, where the bank accounts effectively handle the accounting for you (no more Quicken).
And by having the transaction information distributed among multiple institutions, it might help keep the marketers from seeing the whole picture. Thanks to automated ACH transfers the system doesn't even add that much in weekly money management.
plus one an now transfer money online. How very quaint to stand in line to get your money
rosethorn wrote:
Well, at least they weren't shooting at each other. However, if the Department of Homeland Security were to show up next time... Could be like a Spaghetti Western.
Not phishing.
Just looking at my online account it now shows they did cancel my other card- without notice.
Further, I notice some bs charges to cover an over draft.
Well, I am done with them- time to cancel the direct deposit and close the account.
Period.
Screwups. Well, enough for them- time to short!
Someday this war's gonna end...
Just on the Ally (GMAC) website. They currently have an adlline reading "It's your money, not ours!"
I'm guessing their marketing folks didn't think too long about how taxpayers might interpret that statement. "Damn right it's ours, and we want it back!"
Thank you. Actually, my EEV did a little better than SRS.
Just like the good ol' days!
i believe that they did it exactly the right way- pulled out all the assets and deposits and turned then over to JPM- leaving bond holders, executives etc will holding company claims with no assets to speak off. That is exactly what they should have done with all the banks. Substitute a government capitalized bank in place of JPM.
Pwnzi wrote:
I agree banks don't send letters when closing inactive accounts - but I would be very surprised if they are making phone calls asking about liquid assets - this sounds like several of the phishing schemes that have been going around trying to get account data out of unsuspecting individuals.
can we take the cialis away from the senators...this extend and pretend keeps F****** us....senator's...stop the F******
It takes a while, but the obvious usually occurs to me after a little while...
the reason Congress doesn't care if the Fed blatantly usurps the power of the purse is because the Fed has agreed to print unlimited sums to buy Congress' debt. Don't know why that didn't occur to me a year ago, when the Fed monetization-through-worthless-assets scheme began to approach obscene levels.
Citizen AllenM wrote:
Wow. Pretty amazing. Call them and ask about those "Ethics Training" Classes they just took.
They usually start with personal messages from various very senior leaders extolling the virtues of the bank.
Long-term Treasuries are a fool's market at this point.
The same speculation that propped the stock market up all summer is working in long Ts...until the day it doesn't.
When that day comes, it's over. Forever.
The Uncommon Man wrote:
I was going to do some of that, but then I realized that my home equity is on that razor-thin line where, if TSHTF (a 2-point failure of local housing market and current employment situation), I might want to have the option available to strategically default.
Then I realized that insured general-obligation muni bonds are paying more (after tax effects) than my mortgage. So I shifted some money into munis. Both in funds and now individual bonds. Vanguard has a half-decent platform for buying individual bonds without paying too much in fees (at least for a 5-10 year buy-and-hold timeframe). Never realized I'd be doing interest-rate arbitrage, but here we are...
threetorches wrote:
+1 Totally agree
HollywoodHack wrote:
Hmmm. good point. If you buy the banksters debt, we don't mind, as long as you buy everything we got too. Makes sense.
So who shall investigate the FBI?
Please keep rival government agencies and incentives for ratting on one another, for god's sake. The more the better. That's market competition I'll always stick up for.
maybe, Rich, but I'm in no rush to rejoin the TBT knucklehead club.
I'm unconvinced that the Fed won't be able to keep effective ZIRP rates going even if we hit 1-5 euro, 5K gold, $300 crude, et al. They have this thing called a printing press, and it can buy Ts forever and a day.
There are FDIC insured no cap reward accounts available nationally at 3% and locally at 4+%. Anyone satisfied with a US $ yield below 3% is foolish. My US pesos are all earning at least 4%.
Nationwide Reward Checking Account Rates- Compare high yield reward checking accounts available nationwide.
High Yield Reward Checking Accounts - Compare reward checking account rates
noob goldberg (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Wed, 10/28/2009 - 3:10 pm
ResistanceIsFeudal wrote:
OTOH, your Mar-2011 straddle on that synthetic ETF that's algorithmically traded to model USD/Yen?? Totally real.
I laughed very hard. Thx RF.
Here in upside-down world, sometimes all you can do is laugh or throw things at the wall.
It does have me thinking though... what about a fund based on sunspot fluctuations, and other novelty sources of semi-random information?
**You can't handle the truth
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”**
"It's not a lie if you believe it."
-- George Costanza
Wisdom Speaker wrote:
About those munis . . . . not vouching for the source, but it sounds plausible . . .: http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/Weeden%209%2029%2009.pdf
actually- the use of industrial ethanol a.k.a alcohol is way up this year. Combination of people drinking more and hand sanitizer.
" I figure if he's already figured out how to yell at his weiner, there's not much else I can teach him.
He's ready to lead any wall street bank, for sure. "
Looks like someones gonna grow up to be a big swinging dick on Wall Street.
Pwnzi wrote:
And, if you think you might need the credit on any of those cards in the next wave of crisis, make sure you keep them active. (Small automated purchases each month, paid off each month...) We have a couple of cards like this as part of a "defense in depth" strategy in case the credit crisis metastasizes further. (If one of our "everyday use" card companies folds suddenly, we still want to be able to buy stuff.) After the market action this week, I'm also replenishing our cash cache (aka "Bank of Sealy").
Final thought on last thread (and many threads to come) for you true believers...if you think the government(or factions/parts of the government) lied about this, how do you know they didn't lie about that...
I find it fascinating that, after the months of discussion on this board, the CR Commentariat is only just now beginning to realize that this shit storm is going to affect them as well.
rich wrote:
Now, if we just knew when that day would arrive.
BTW, EEV almost exactly mirrored the miners today. Interesting hedge.
Lots of branded gas cards got canceled with no calls or letters.
They can get away with anything they like. Who are we going to complain to?
Wisdom Speaker wrote:
Man, these financial doomer strategies are so much more boring than planing for a zombie invasion. The post financial collapse movies aren't going to be very exciting to watch - at least the part leading up to the collapse.
josap wrote:
If you are talking Citi, they can cancel first and then send the letter on the active accounts - they do not send letters on accounts classified as inactive.
TBT
I've just reclassified that investment as part of my retirement portfolio. I'm sure it will pay off, but it might be 20 years from now.
Every other position I've taken since then has had very tight stops on it. "Fool me once" and all.
merchants of fear wrote:
I'm think they lie about this and that. all the time.
mp wrote:
Can't say we haven't been warning them, and for quite a while at that.
mp wrote:
Yah, they TARP'ed everything over for a while there, but now the entrails of the economy are starting to flow out into the open again.
High Yield Checking Deals
The who's who of who's next on the BFF
Wonder how those GMAC homes/mortgages are looking right about now? No one ever talks about THAT. I'm wondering if Ally was a brainy-ack moment to switch those gears.
I do not trust any of the banks currently, even the small ones. Like I said previously, the FDIC is a relic and artifact of an ancient financial system; it was made a relic by the repeal of Glass-Steagall. Since, their looses have included RRE/CRE losses on speculation, CC losses. It simply does not have the tools or resources to deal with the magnitude of losses that are coming. Yeah, yeah...blah, blah...the treasury will print money. If one of the TBTFs actually does, then what? (Say Citi or BoA). It doesn't soothe me that just the Corus bank failure alone cost the DIF just $2billion. So, I'm in standby mode.
Our unused cards got cancelled last year very abruptly.
Which I guess means I'm still a charter member of the TBT knucklehead club. I even have my lyrics to TNT ready for whenever the long bond really does roll over.
Interesting little piece by Waldman today, kindly summarized by someone else
Interfluidity :: Asset inflation, price inflation, and the great moderation
listening to some of the comments regarding Credit Cards- when did having a credit card at terms you like become a right?
Don't like how the banks are treating you - hand back the credit card. To me all this grousing about banks is just a reflection of the entitlement mentality. I want everything but don't have to work or pay for it.
Get rid of the damned cards. That's the best advice you'll get.
Final thought follow-up...Does the stock market(conceptual collective entity) and related 'brokers' and 'pundits' tell the 'Truth'? Did we know the Truth about our military adventurism (and what it costs). Do we know why this bubble started except for deregulation, derivatives, easy lending, political campaign for the 'Ownership Nation', etc. With the internet, people can research the events of the day...and New Century...have fun learning about the world as it turns...
ResistanceIsFeudal wrote:
GS, through a PE fund, buys a controlling stack in a aerospace firm that is working on harvesting solar energy through the use of lead shielding and glass mirrors to harness or reflect solar waves away from/to Earth. As soon as your team of scientists predict a bad solar flare due to sunspots, the
brigade send out digital commands at the speed of light to their array of shields and mirrors to make the sunspot not appear--ala David Copperfield's Statue of Liberty trick. Scientists are discredited and only GS predictions on sunspots will be heeded by the herd.
.
Why?
glad to see that the homebuyers tax credit was changed 'dramatically'
what a joke
as expected, the handouts continue
mp wrote:
No, we are just like people outrunning an angry bear. Keep at least one fatter, slower person between you and bear at all times. The problem is some of us miscalculate our cardio health and endurance.
rich wrote:
That's the Extinction Level Event (ELE) for Wall Street.
Move-up buyers(suckers) included...
Amen and pass the potatoes MP. Using them for convenience and becoming a 'deadbeat' in their eyes is a glorious act of patriotism. No snark.
I did OK with it earlier in the year. But I've tried to short long Ts for the past 6 years, and it has been the biggest loser part of the portfolio consistently. The reality is that the Fed can create "demand" for Ts totally at will. Asian CBs bail - doesn't matter. IMO, if you're going to hedge against dollar rot, there are better methods. I'm currently exposed enough to commodities and PMs, so I'm leaning towards forex if this dollar rally extends over the next month or so.
Chainsaw wrote:
Careful Chainsaw... with the beta slippage on TBT, you may have nearly nothing left, 20 years from now. Also, 20 years from now Treasury yields are reasonably likely to be right about where they are now, if the 1930s-1960s era is any guide... For instance, here's a chart showing AAA corporates from 1919-present, and you can see that rates were low and stable from the mid-30s to the mid-50s.
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/fredgraph.png?&chart_type=line&graph_id=0&category_id=&recession_bars=On&width=630&height=378&bgcolor=%23B3CDE7&graph_bgcolor=%23FFFFFF&txtcolor=%23000000&preserve_ratio=true&id=AAA,&transformation=lin,&scale=Lef,
They don't want to hold the keys to the vault in case the coins are missing. "Sorry, Hu, couldnanode the zeros were a few places off."
What I'd like to know is why anyone thinks a credit card is a necessity. It's beyond me.
The only thing credit cards are good for is forcing you to pay higher prices.
Let me tell you, when I pull out the wad, people listen.
Carefully.
there is no secret- people love the idea that they can get rich without working for it , that they can spend more than they earn . Wall street realized that and created a whole machine to meet that need. Essentially they took financial assets and made them the equivalent of any consumer product - with enough spin and advertising you can sell anything- pet rock? You can look for a cause, deregulation etc - but it was basic greed of the population. It is also what will make solving the problem so very difficult because no politician has the courage to tell the American people - you had a party for 20 years and now you are going to pay with a hangover. Easier to blame the booze or barman for stopping you from drinking.
yagij wrote:
We should pay them lots of money.
(Since counterpointer's not here I'm stealing his line)
nice analysis. fiat dollars are a poor form of defense against either.
it isn't 1968-1981 that is the exception corrected by appropriate policy - actually, that era is the natural state of affairs for a fiat system. it is the time since which has been a series of parlor tricks to channel that process to the benefit our richest 1%.
mp wrote:
Not me. I ALWAYS pay retail+. Just how my brain works (or doesn't).
yagij (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Wed, 10/28/2009 - 3:34 pm
Scientists are discredited and only GS predictions on sunspots will be heeded by the herd.
Thanks for that. A lot more resource-intensive, expensive and involved process than the way they (presumably) manipulate "real" markets presently, but still funny to think about. And to think... we consider astrology a pseudoscience?
.
Why?
yuan wrote:
Thanks for that link! Have you cross-checked the institutions listed against CR's and other "banks in trouble" lists? While the FDIC insurance is nice, I don't want to actually have to deal with the FDIC at any stage... Also, at this stage in the crisis I sort of think there are two classes of institutions that are willing to offer high yields: those that are in deep trouble and need deposits, fast... and those that think they are in no trouble and are healthy enough to grow. Unfortunately the lack of transparency in the system makes it hard to tell them apart...
OT: From Mish
Funny; this is what my Dad has told me for years (decades).
sm_landlord wrote:
Pretty sure its biggest constituent is Brazil, ag exporter.
ResistanceIsFeudal wrote:
I know. Odd, ain't it? I wonder when Economics is discredited similarly.
I'm finding the warnings of 'doom' and 'bad policy' were many from all parts of the political spectrum and Ivory Tower...'The Great Reckoning' is no surprise...
HollywoodHack wrote:
Yup. I wouldn't mind an opportunity to further diversify out of the dollar.
Nemo wrote:
it's autumn. what do you expect?
With all the talk of bank runs, how does one go about researching super safe smaller banks that aren't likely to get into any trouble in the future? I'm thinking of spreading my money into a few different bank accounts as well and I'm wary of being too reliant on the FDIC.
I just did a search on google for "safest bank in the us" and the first result returned said Wells Fargo...
Nemo wrote:
Probably just hemorrhoids; get some Prep H
mp wrote:
Try that on a web site or with a car rental . . .
mp wrote:
Is Conjure back into Euros?
IMO trying to compare the United States of the 1930- 1960 to the United States of today is just shoddy analysis. Even if the points are the same it matters a lot if you are going through those points on the way up or on the way down.
Ignorance on the part of our leaders may be tough to justify or prove...
mp wrote:
That, and ordering stuff online. Most of the stuff that I buy for my business is not available in brick and mortar locations any more.
Cinco-X wrote:
Total
crazyv wrote:
I heard acquaintances on numerous occasions justify their excessive debt-fueled lifestyles by saying "you can't take it with you". It was like some sort of a mantra.
mp wrote:
mp wrote on Thu, 11/8/2007 - 12:10 pm
Conjure and I are making too much money today to waste our time on this.
sm_landlord wrote:
Helps renting a car too-
noob goldberg wrote:
It's a good idea as long as you die before the bill comes due. Just like all other kinds of financial planning, timing & execution are key.
mp wrote:
Also, I bet the thieves love it when you pull out the wad - hope you carry "protection"
Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley were crumbling as a result of bank runs too. Exactly why were they saved? They weren't even commercial banks?
Follow the money!
Well, it worked for your Dad! It's just not going to work for YOU. Remember when you were a kid, and Dad always beat you at checkers? Guess what ... the old man just won again!
Wisdom Speaker,
You may very well be right about rates staying flat line for the next 20 years. I would actually find that pretty reassuring as it would mean the US Govt hasn't lost its ability to borrow. That's what I'm truly worried about, and also why I think long rates will eventually be forced higher.
IIRC the US's fiscal outlook today is worse than at any time other than WWII. If that doesn't eventually result in higher long term rates, I may actually find something to be impressed about Ben and Timmy.
Don't like how the banks are treating you - hand back the credit card. To me all this grousing about banks is just a reflection of the entitlement mentality. I want everything but don't have to work or pay for it.
Um, no. I can pay for it, but as long as we were dancing, I was dancing too- now I want my bailout, and muy pronto!!
After all, it is not their money until I decide to pay it back. If ever.
Now when the rest of the country goes pirate- arrrrrgh!!!
I had some fun discussion with Tanta about this, she is passed, but I am still dancing, and if they want their money now- well pennies on the dollar boys!!!
Someday this war's gonna end....
it never happens to you... until it does.
Citizen AllenM wrote:
Did you send them a "Thank You" note?
crazyv: That is partly true I would say. But you also have to realize that for a huge segment of the population, mainly the disappearing middle class, credit was the only way to stay up with demands as wages didn't keep up.
There is a lot of blame to go around, we can all say we are part of the problem even those of us who didn't play the game. There are also a whole boatload of innocent bystanders in dire straights. People still are one illness/injury, one paycheck away from complete total unrecoverable financial disaster.
I have a whole lot more empathy for those trying to make it or stay on their feet than the freeloading bankstas who want your pie, my pie now and into the next century.
crazyv,
Similiarities to bubble/busts past & resent seem to be the wreckless credit expansion then wreckles credit contraction cycles...
noob goldberg wrote:
It was actually true tho. If you think your debt can be refinanced forever, then you'd be foolish NOT to get as much debt as you can before you die. The US - as a country - still knows it never has to pay off the national debt, just keep refinancing. That's why it's still expanding. They'd be stupid NOT to expand it.
how much of today's market action had to do with the bond auction soaking up liquidity?
The reason we have all these focus on terrorism has nothing to do with Al Qaeda. What the powers to be are concerned about is domestic revolution. They are slowly but surely closing of every opportunity of the masses to get out from underneath the oppression. Mind game -if the British had in 1776 the powers that our government has today would there even have been an United States?
yagij wrote:
I'm not certain about that. High debt levels minimize flexibility when seeking out a new job, changing housing requirements, or even getting a different vehicle, and certainly it adds stress to relationships, often leading to divorce. I can't imagine that it's worth the few extra baubles.
mp wrote:
Point taken, but adding to others' replies: not all of us want everyone in town to understand our financial position. As with animals in the jungle, so for shoppers in a city: camouflage comes at a cost but also has a value.
how much of today's market action had to do with the bond auction soaking up liquidity?
However much CNBS wants it to be, until the next better story comes around.
Eric wrote:
oh. is CNBC running with that? hahaha! my bad.
noob goldberg (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Wed, 10/28/2009 - 3:43 pm
I heard acquaintances on numerous occasions justify their excessive debt-fueled lifestyles by saying "you can't take it with you". It was like some sort of a mantra.
Not just "like" a mantra, it IS a mantra. Live life making interest payments, then interest on interest, then interest on interest on interest, etc. Then, presumably, die or disappear. HAHAHAHA! It's someone else's problem now! Party on, Garth!
shill wrote:
While I don't deny that the run up was manufactured, I don't see anything significant about 10k. If we had 4 digits on each had, you might then think there was something significant about 8000?
Anyone have any experience with an etf of non-US TIPS? Forget the ticker.
Fiat currencies come and go, but paper claims to title have generally retained some exchange value in the last thousand years, even post Communist Revolution. Beats the testimony about some twigs system that preceded it.
"Testimony" got its name because only males could own title to property or appear in court to settle disputes about them.
Big time
Costco to accept food stamps nationwide - USATODAY.com
Sorry, but again, I don't get it.
I have a debit account that I use for internet purchases. It was specifically set up for that. If someone gets the account number, there's very little cash in it.
As far as rentals/hotels/trucks are concerned, my cash has always been welcome.
As for cars, I don't rent cars. People loan me cars or they give me rides. I also use cabs.
crazyv wrote:
Rates today are on the long tail of a long decline, just as they were in the 1930s. While the historical analogy isn't perfect, I think the analogy is reasonable enough to require some serious thought.
Another way of looking at it is this: if interest rates rise more than a couple % from where they are now, especially on the short end, the U.S. government is hosed just from the increase in debt-service expenditures. It won't matter if you have TBT or not.
Last time I pulled out the wad, I got arrested.
mp wrote:
Except that we have a credit based economy. You really do need a working credit card in some cases, like renting a car.
Short term credit (less than 25 days) is also very convenient for many transactions.
mp, I mean no disrespect, but a wad of cash won't buy anything at amazon.com.
when i tell people there is no fundamental basis for equities to be priced as high as they are right now, they get annoyed with me. they say things: "trying to follow fundamentals, you would never buy into the market". maybe they'll catch on, eventually
yes and all those people who were having a hard timing making it what were they doing? What have been the dominant political issues in the last 15 years- gun control , gay marriage, abortion . Sure the pusher deserves to be jailed- but you are not going to win the war on drugs until people stop doing drugs.
Who was the innocent bystander that we are talking about? The person whose house is now worth half as much? It misses the point that it wouldn't have been worth that but for all the games that were being played.
Well, you have to be careful, don't you? You just don't pull it out anywhere.
People will also mug you just as fast for a credit card.
noob goldberg (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Wed, 10/28/2009 - 3:49 pm
I'm not certain about that. High debt levels minimize flexibility when seeking out a new job, changing housing requirements, or even getting a different vehicle, and certainly it adds stress to relationships, often leading to divorce. I can't imagine that it's worth the few extra baubles.
In a society where your perceived social worth as an individual is measured by those baubles, it means everything.
mp wrote:
I have no problems with VISA. We booked a flight a couple years ago and the operator went out of business the day before departure. Without VISA we would have been out the entire amount, such as were those who paid by debit. After a claim we were reimbursed the full amount. My card also gives me free insurance on rental cars, so I save cash everytime I rent a car. And since the SO works for a bank, we don't pay an annual fee.
So far the card hasn't cost us a dime.
1 currency now -yogi wrote:
Learn something new everyday. I didn't know that. Now I can tell about the genesis of the word hysteria, hint-hysterectomy is related. lol. I wanna see some testosterone heavy traders with a hysteria moment-yup I am sick and twisted.
" What I'd like to know is why anyone thinks a credit card is a necessity. It's beyond me.
The only thing credit cards are good for is forcing you to pay higher prices.
Let me tell you, when I pull out the wad, people listen.
Carefully. "
We pay everything on a single credit card including telephone bill, water bill, cable bill etc..
Always pay it off in full every month. Get a nice chunk of points at the end of the year to buy things with.
Sorry, but that's bullshit.
That's what the card companies have TAUGHT you.
ResistanceIsFeudal wrote:
Maybe that's why I don't fit in with my neighbours.
I just figured it was my excessive nudity.
Not only did they sieze the bank, but they also siezed their
Credit Cards / Debit Cards. Just convinces, nothing more or less. If there were no credit/debit cards I'd miss mine; much more than cell phones or the internet actually. I seldom have more than 20 bucks in my wallet.
If the card goes away, it's not the end of the world. It is helpful to have, but I generally use the debit card or cash.
Visa and Mastercard typically double the manufacturer's warranty on any purchase. That alone makes them worthwhile.
Anyway, this so-called "credit-based economy," if it ever did exist, is fast becoming a CASH ECONOMY.
If you don't think so, think some more about what the card companies are doing.
Deal struck to extend home-buyer tax credit - MarketWatch
"Those who have lived in their residence for five consecutive years would be newly eligible for a $6,500 credit, Reid's office said."
Slightly less than yesterday ...
mp wrote:
I can't deny that, mp. And as soon as they make it even slightly unpalatable to use my credit card, it'll be back to cash.
Which will seem weird, because I haven't carried a wallet with cash in it for years.
As somebody who worked for a Swiss bank I can tell you that we purchased UST not for the yield but because we wanted some protection in case the Russian's came marching in. If I were working for a Swiss bank today I certainly wouldn't be purchasing UST for that purpose. In fact I would question the whole premise of investing in the US given the penchant of the US to apply extra territorial authority.
I just think looking at charts from the 1930-1960 and trying to draw a correlation between that and today without making adjustments for the entire economic back drop just isn't analysis. A country rising to global domination has a very different underlying structure than a country that is giving back its global dominance.
Sorry, but BWAHAHAHA!
noob goldberg wrote:
Maybe if you die w/o insurance and w/o paying if off, you actually can-
CalculatedRisk wrote:
Deflation.
Less than yesterday? What a bunch of wimps. You'd think that they were worried about the spending or something.
I had no doubt it would hit. I'm pissed at my lack of options to deal with it.
mp wrote:
You are not liable for fraudulent use of your credit card, while the cash is GONE!
Chainsaw wrote:
Funny that... I think they'll take cash, checks, AmEx and food stamps, but not VISA or Mastercard (debit or otherwise)!
NOPE: My hero Gov. Paterson did so just yesterday on CNBC.
But he is a blind fool and only accidental Governor. Even Obama believes he can't win. Not some idiot who can't even see the emperor's beautiful suit from spitting distance.
CalculatedRisk wrote:
A VICTORY for the peasants who have call THEIR representatives. Democracy still works. And remember to vote for one of the two major parties in the next election.
plastic is anathema to a low-margin retailing model
Wisdom Speaker wrote:
AMEX must of cut them a heck of a deal on interchange fees - rates that Visa and MasterCard would not touch.
noob goldberg wrote:
Again, as long as you die before the debt comes due...
mp wrote:
I'll also add that even though I rarely carry cash on my person, we definitely keep a bunch in a safe at home. The eastern seaboard blackout of 2003 was enough to convince us of that necessity.
I can't believe that we are even debating whether it is more convenient to have a credit card or not. IMO it clearly is - but is it essentially clearly no. My point is since when did something that is convenient become a "right". Don't like the terms offered for the convenience don't take the card -simple as that .
I laugh, neigh, I scoff at all of you little people. When I whip out my big black amex that I pay $495 a year for - why they jump!
WestSac_grrl wrote:
The smart amoral scumbags have forced all the peasants into the game. You can't escape. They are pretty smart that way.
yagij wrote:
Well, on that happy note, I'm heading home.
If it's not attached to the UnEmp bill there's a chance for a veto...
CalculatedRisk wrote:
mp wrote:
Sure. They have managed to insert themselves as "credit intermediaries", if you will.
In the old days, when I could buy almost everything I needed at local brick&mortar institutions, I would establish an account at the businesses that I transacted with. Then either myself or my employee could sign for purchases as needed, and I would send them a check at the end of the month based on the transaction receipts.
The CC companies have taken over that function. And now that I have to deal with vendors all over the map, it's convenient. Of course, the fact that I have to deal with vendors all over the map is probably because it's now practical to do so. And now, I pay for delivery explicitly, rather than the cost being bundled into the price that a local vendor would charge, if they still existed.
NOTaREALmerican wrote:
What a slogan! "The USA. Now slightly less corrupt. (Your measurement may vary)."
mp,
Mastercard just wrote me a check for the full amount of a failed TV we purchased 21 months ago. It was out of the manufacturer's 1 year warranty, but our Mastercard carried the double warranty benefit.
We also take the cash back they offer. Why not? Doesn't cost us a penny since we pay in full every month.
The discussion of the pros and cons on credit cards reminded me of another discussion our payments industry has been having - with mobile payments, what happenss when you lose the cell phone?
hotels may let you pay a cash deposit (that's how it works in China), but you need a card to rent a car. You also need one to buy online.
You folks are free to believe whatever you want to believe. All I ask is that you give a moment's thought as to WHY you believe it.
the one good part of this crappy Congress- no more political donations. Can't believe I wasted all that money donating to Obama when I could have gotten all these policies for free.
The result of credit destruction or liquidity contraction is a primarily cash based society where you purchase what you need with your currency from income. Uh oh. What if the credit is gone, jobs dry up, the cash is 'devalued' and the prices go up? Landless peasantry. The spinmeisters have to find a way to make this sound cool...
mp wrote:
BECAUSE THEY TOLD ME ON TV!!! I CAN'T HELP IT. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
I need to go take a bath now. Defending credit cards makes me feel all dirty.
I bet Wachovia had a bank run also.
crazyv wrote:
Enabler!
mp wrote:
Because the card industry has been paying my bills for 25 years and have allowed me to live a comfortable lifestyle (I provide legal services to payments companies)
well put MP, and I would posit that cash itself isn't just a credit-based entitry, it is a credit-based representation of a political entity, which utterly fails most historical definitions of "money".
merchants of fear wrote:
Since money is created with debt, if credit dries up, the "demand" for money should go up, and hence it should become more valuable, not devalued.
Let me tell you, when I pull out the wad, people listen.
Would you put that thing back in your pants, please?
They all had runs as people reduced their savings to below the FDIC limit. I recall an issue with businesses pulling million dollar balances out of deposit accounts used for payroll.
The dark side of the fractional reserve system.
nova wrote:
When I was young - credit cards and smoking made me feel "old.
Now, life does that for me.
The apologists will say...hey you don't need all that stuff...bad jobs, dirty money, McHouses, vehicles that run...it's all over-rated anyway...
You guys with your wads and big black amex cards are dreamy...
However much CNBS wants it to be, until the next better story comes around.
I just read where their ratings are waayyy down due to the 'all clear' market ramp and some of the shows might be cancelled. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see them go
to spur viewership.
"If the card goes away, it's not the end of the world. It is helpful to have, but I generally use the debit card or cash. "
I had my debit card stolen without me realizing it until the next day. Within a couple of hours my account was over-drawn by 10k. Including two $4000 dollar money transfers at the same store within 15 minutes of each other.
I got everything back but it was a LOT harder then dealing with fraudulent charges on a CC.
I never carry a visa/mastercard bank card anymore. All my cards are plain ATM cards now.
Our business moved everything from a Money Market fund to a Short Term Treasury fund. This was before the MM insurance from the FDIC.
crazyv wrote:
At least it kept you off the "other" list. Not that the rest of us mind being on the "other" list.
sm_landlord wrote:
My goodness, what a novel concept.
mp wrote:
Hee hee --- Because someone else is paying the spread!
All transactions have costs. Someone pays those costs. The smart amoral scumbags have created a system in which the merchant pays a nice fee for their service, and then they pass some of that fee back to the cardholder as benefits. (And then there are the fees from those who don't pay off their card every month.)
Now, does the fee push up the price for everyone? Maybe, but maybe not. Cash transactions have their own agency costs, though. Cash has a fairly high management /labor overhead (armored cars, safes, sticky fingers...).
I'd like to see a world with nothing but cash and debit cards, personally. If the debit cards had all the functionality of credit cards (e.g. could be used for hotel and rental car deposits)...
NOTaREALmerican wrote:
What he said.
" When I was young - credit cards and smoking made me feel "old.
Now, life does that for me. "
The 18 year old barrista at Starbucks calling me Sir does that trick for me.
Cinco,
Thought U.S. dollar currency was the mercy of the foreign investors and other currency markets plus 'unpredictable' geo-political events...
dshort.com 50-Day Moving Average: Oops! October 28, 2009
poic wrote:
I absolutely HATE that.
Exactly. There was a lot of "rational panic" going on.
Chainsaw wrote:
poic wrote:
I call 50 year old guys 'sir' just to piss them off.
EDIT: Okay, done printing stuff, really outta here now.
merchants of fear wrote:
It is-
"camouflage comes at a cost but also has a value. "
Amen brother....the less the people around you know about you the better. I said it yesterday....all of my neighbors think I stay at home and watch the grass grow...have never told them what I do, when I do it and why. It's much better that way.
But if you want to try and get in my house you'll meet with two things.... a big dog with a penchant for showing his teeth and failing that you can meet Mr. Mossberg 12 gauge.
Ciao
MS
Glenn Beck is doing a reasonably good exposition on the money supply and lending, much better than his prior flops. I totally disagree with the conclusions he's peddling, but this will help amp up the political pressure on the Fed and Treasury to allow deflation to happen.
poic wrote:
I stopped grocery shopping on Wednesdays after the third time one of the snotty nosed kids offered me their over 60 Wednesday discount
ndk wrote:
What's his conclusion?
OT, Wisdom Speaker, that was good stuff on the DOW/gold chart and related info last night.
I wasn't talkative then, so I'm saying that now.
What's his conclusion?
"Those people" did it.
Nanoo: the olde Lords thought the hand on the heart was the inferior mechanism for eliciting truth under oath. Their judges still wear wigs, and ours the robes, but otherwise Lady Justice tries to appear genderless.
Men can apparently lie even with a hand on their brains, it has been learned...
Christ, I remember when a Diners Club card was just a piece of cardboard.
I remember how the CASH ONLY economy worked and can tell you that it worked one hell of a lot better than this one does.
I smell bacon, but here goes.
Have I lived a large lifestyle the last few years?
Yes.
Am I ready for teotwaki?
Yes.
Do I appear insolvent?
Of course!
How else can I get my bailout?
Thanks, the average american.
Someday this war's gonna end...
nova wrote:
HA! how original!
For all I know Glenn Beck is on the right track, but he's so damn silly I can't watch him.
I remember how the CASH ONLY economy worked and can tell you that it worked one hell of a lot better than this one does.
mp, not all of us want to go back to the Little House on the Pairie.
mp wrote:
One can never go back. Which is why keeping a close eye on the smart amoral scumbags NOW is important for the future.
Who knows what they're thinking of doing next?
NOTaREALmerican wrote:
Massive inflation and interest rates "over 20%", but possibly as high as 40%. He's also stating that building an economy on top of borrowing and spending rather than production is bad.
"How do you get out of this system," he asks rhetorically. "Well, to pay off the $105 trillion debt and clean all this up," his conjecture: "how about we just print enough money to pay off the debt over time? Sure, it'll be worthless, but we'll be able to 'honor' our agreement. We'll be able to give the Chinese their money back.... But then, what's left? Somebody's got to have thought this through. How do you restart the country? You have to have something to back the currency. Gold, gold would be a good one, ah!" But there's not enough gold in the world. So, now we're on to Weimar Republic analogies and the new marks, and a suggestion that a new currency in America would be backed by land, via Fannie and Freddie's ownership of land.
This is farking nuts, but it's still strongly resonant with a lot of America.
mp (profile) wrote on Wed, 10/28/2009 - 4:27 pm
I find it fascinating that, after the months of discussion on this board, the CR Commentariat is only just now beginning to realize that this shit storm is going to affect them as well.
Yeah. Some regular was like, "If you don't have $40,000 dollars saved for retirement by 30 you have a problem" or something similar. I was like, "in American dollars?"
Some habits of thought are going to die hard.
So Glenn Beck is pushing for the Amero?
ndk wrote:
Good that somebody is talking about it.
So, we had something they couldn't have dreamed of in the 1930's...
Silent Bank Runs
Visa vis the computer~
Social change-
We are joining a globalized workforce club or 'lesser people's club'. Now supposedly the U.S. citizens and government had it coming. It's a club with state directed wage workers or chronic unemployment and little or no accumulation of 'middle class wealth'...was this voted on?
Nemo wrote:
He's pushing against the Amero, from what I can tell, but knows in his guts that the Amero is coming because that's what history has taught him. "It boils down to this. What if the dollar collapses within 3, 5, 8 years? This is the only plan I can come up with, and historically speaking, it's the only one I can find."
Then he started saying something about China shooting bears in the head, and being worse stewards of the world than us, before he was cut off by an abrupt cut to commercial with elves dancing on hamburgers.
This country is fucking surreal.
Geebus, I was in banking when the Bank Americard was handed out, and everyone was cross trained so banksters couldn't rob the bank and people had names instead of numbers on their accounts and I had to work overtime one year to number all the accounts, AND you feel old.
NOTaREALmerican wrote:
I hate it when I'm not called Sir. Respect your elders.
Mass panic, rioting in the streets, overthrow of the old order, the rise of a new European dictator and then it's curtains for Poland AGAIN...
sigh too true
~splat
Glenn Beck is an idiot.
Sorry, but that's the way it is for me.
merchants of fear wrote:
It was good while it lasted