And they wrote it so I STILL can't take advantage of it, even though I wouldn't be stupid enough to take a $15K credit to buy a place that was $50K overpriced.
Just went to Denninger's site and I didn't see the 'ALL CAPS' thing...he does use bold print sometimes...and he was saying The Fed doesn't deserve more Power. Man, that's just CRAZY talk!
Rob Dawg, It is interesting that Olick is suggesting one group doesn't want the "controversial" tax credit as part of the unemployment extension, and Reuters seems to imply another group is having problems with the unemployment extension.
@Bob Dobbs on inevitability of shrinking work regardless of outsourcing -
That's a good argument, Bob. But I'll argue back that under the current system, what we now have is a lot of peer-to-peer confusion. Instead of one central bank & policy, we now have many acting from different perspectives. Instead of one regulatory agency, we have many. Instead of one language, we have many.
We have a complex system of trading and shipping and what does it buy us, really?
A whole lot of complexity & risk, no clear management directives or leaders, and for what?
and that anybody thinks our debt is worth having is weirder still.
I think this bill pretty much should make it clear to any debt holder that if they are expecting the US to get its "fiscal house" in order it just isn't going to happen. We can't kill an ineffective and fraud prone tax credit- any chance we are going to raise a tax?
All, Albrt has another guest post on a court ruling that we will have ready to post around 9 PM ET, 6 PM PT. Might make for some interesting discussion ... and I definitely think Tanta would approve.
While the GOP (and Obama) are itching their worry warts about the cost of health care reform (that O won't let go over $900 billion over 10 years - a measely $90 B a year that is offset fully to result in no net budget increase), we are about to embark on a housing giveaway that is completely unfunded (with narry a peap from the 'fiscal conservatives'.)
I hope that the housing thing is a separate bill, and that Obama, for once, vetoes the bill as fiscally irresponsible.
we will cutting medicaire payments to doctors, won't extend unemployment benefits but have the money for a worthless tax credit.
BTW I don't understand why we need to extend unemployment benefits. At this point we are way past the actuarial point where insurance premiums cover the payment- it is nothing more than welfare. We already have a welfare system- let the unemployed collect welfare. Or is that since the vast majority of people collecting unemployment are white they want to be saved from the stigma of a system that caters to "lazy black people". If we are going to extend unemployment it shouldn't be for any Republican's because I am sure that they wouldn't want any part of that socialism thing.
Almost off topic but actually more of an meta-comment.
What the Republicans are doing is what the minority party traditionally used to do. It doesn't matter what needs to be done only that the majority party either accept or have responsibility forced upon it. The Dems now own these policies.
Politicians calculate the value of emails, faxes, phone calls, etc. as representing a percentage of their constituents. For example, one email represents 12 voters, a phone call = 40 - that sort of thing. All joking aside, I think it does make a difference, small though it may be.
Noob,
Well if this clustermess doesn't deserve a few 'crazy' all caps then the status quo 'preserve the bubble' policies must be of lower case significance.
Hopefully NO MORE SUCKERS get suckered into the squid ponzi buying houses now!! (I used two exclamation points.)
The job of the minority party is ALWAYS to make the other side look bad. That's the difference between political and business negotiations. Businesses are usually driven to something approximating a win-win because one side will generally walk away if they don't get something out of it. Politics is almost always about getting to a win-lose situation, the worse you can make the other side look, the better.
Well, I have been thinking of taking a vacation, and received a memo from Washington on what to do so as to not be surprised when I returned. Since I might be gone a few weeks, I followed the "extended time away from home list"
Fill wallet with money.
Send to Washington.
3.Check and record credit card limits.
4.Send to Washington
5.Have power of attorney for checking and savings accounts and credit cards drawn up...
Send to Washington
...don't think I left anything out...should have a great time.
Well if this clustermess doesn't deserve a few 'crazy' all caps then the status quo 'preserve the bubble' policies must be of lower case significance.
It does warrant it. He's just attempting to use a vocal rhetorical technique in written form, and it doesn't translate all that well. Two different medium requiring different approaches.
But I'll argue back that under the current system, what we now have is a lot of peer-to-peer confusion.
I don't believe in the current system at all; just if we brought all manufacturing and processing home and automated the hell out of it -- which would probably happen, and might have started happening much more widely 15-20 years ago if we'd got tough on illegal immigration and not let manufacturing bolt to China -- we'd face the same problem of underemployment we're facing now. Maybe with a richer overall society and a less debased currency to start from.
Down the road there's a question then of how people are supported, who pays for what, whether and how income is redistributed to keep society running in a stable fashion, and overall how/whether society should reorient itself from a consumer society to a society that provides other economic services to itself that don't figure into current GDP calculations. It may be as simply, as somebody said, having somebody stay home to do all the things and provide all the services that the GDP economy currently provides. I heard once that the services of a full-time housewife or househusband would cost out in six figures if outsourced.
Why would they "mind"? Each Party has its 35% dumbass base. Each only needs another 15% to win. When you sell politicians like F-150 trucks, who cares what the policies are.
Maybe the delay has to do with funding. The Fed is at the bitter end of their announced Treasury buying plan. Maybe the Chinese aren't keen on funding an extension of payments to OUR unemployed.
Oh who am I kidding. The Fed has hundreds of billions of MBS purchases to go.
The homebuyer tax credit is a GOP policy as you well know. The Dems were foolish to include it in the stim package in a Quixotic attempt to get GOP votes. They got none. Nut the idea of Democrats owning that policy is absurd. And I'm still hopeful it will be killed.
Ever been to a really hopping party and it gets a little late in the evening, and all it takes is one person or couple announcing that they are leaving, which always behooves a few people that were just waiting for somebody else to make the first move, so they too could split?
That's what it feels like now, everybody is looking @ the exit sign waiting for somebody to make a move first~
Rand thought that Goverrnment was evil at all levels. That is just idiotic. ALL successful economies have Government involvement. It's a matter of degree of course, but Rand's view that the Government was a parasite is just bogus. Further, her point that a small few are the foundation of the economy is wrong.
I can only hope that the director in charge of the announced "Atlas Shrugged" miniseries is Martin Brest, director of Gigli.
This is where Karl D got on a slippery slope and was in full attack mode on an issue he probably hasn't researched very much...obviously...
I'm pretty sure I read the opening paragraph to that ticker and promptly closed the tab. I have a hard time talking with 9/11 conspiracy-types without being reduced to giggles.
I can only hope that the director in charge of the announced "Atlas Shrugged" miniseries is Martin Brest, director of Gigli.
Ayn is perfect for child-like Mericans. That's why it's so popular here, it's like a religion. Humans pick religions (the selective teachings of various deities) to match the beliefs their brain ALREADY has. The religion just re-enforces what is already known to be true.
Libertarians like Ayn Rand are idealists whose ideas enable the chaos we see today by allowing so-called private enterprise to be free of regulation like the Glass Steagall Banking Reform Act. Rand was best known for her 'fiction'.
I heard once that the services of a full-time housewife or househusband would cost out in six figures if outsourced.
Gees, haven't you ever heard of hiring illegal aliens for that? From what I hear you are not even required to pay social security taxes for them. Probably get a live in for about 15-20k a year.
Atlas Shrugged. What a joke. More like Atlas Shrugged and the world kept turning.
Dr. Suess's North/South Going Zax childrens book has more bearing than Ayn Rand's tripe. Of course dingbats like Greensham actually tried to implement Rand's idiocy and look at the results.
Then you will see the rise of the men of the double standard--the men who live by force, yet count on those who live by trade to create the value of their looted money--the men who are the hitchhikers of virtue. In a moral society, these are the criminals, and the statutes are written to protect you against them. But when a society establishes criminals-by-right and looters-by-law--men who use force to seize the wealth of disarmed victims--then money becomes its creators' avenger. Such looters believe it safe to rob defenseless men, once they've passed a law to disarm them. But their loot becomes the magnet for other looters, who get it from them as they got it. Then the race goes, not to the ablest at production, but to those most ruthless at brutality. When force is the standard, the murderer wins over the pickpocket. And then that society vanishes, in a spread of ruins and slaughter.
Do you wish to know whether that day is coming? Watch money. Money is the barometer of a society's virtue. When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion--when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing--when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors--when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you--when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice--you may know that your society is doomed. Money is so noble a medium that is does not compete with guns and it does not make terms with brutality. It will not permit a country to survive as half-property, half-loot.
The homebuyer tax credit is a GOP policy as you well know.
I don't think the extension of the credit is the big issue to the congresscritters of either party - the scope of it, as well as not passing up the opportunity for the GOP to get other poison pill amendments added to make the majority party look bad, will be what holds it up.
But, but, but. It was because Greensham didn't implement a pure ENOUGH version. Don't ya see... If we just wish a little bit harder, boys-n-girls, we can go back to Oz. Now close your eyes and lets sing the Free Market song.
Yeah Noob...but the serious independent research goes on about why we are involved in multiuple wars, an economic cycle bubble crash, growing civil unrest, etc. all of which has to do with where the 'leaders' took us in this obvious 'disaster' of a 'New Century'...
You stand in the midst of the greatest achievements of the greatest productive civilization and you wonder why it's crumbling around you, while you're damning its life-blood--money. You look upon money as the savages did before you, and you wonder why the jungle is creeping back to the edge of your cities. Throughout men's history, money was always seized by looters of one brand or another, whose names changed, but whose method remained the same: to seize wealth by force...
Juvenal,
Have been reading Atlas Shrugged recently -- I read that particular passage about 5 times. Very insightful, and hard to deny that we're there today.
Angry -- Agree that Rand's thinking has some serious flaws, but I think she's closer to right than wrong.
The 'home buyer tax credit' is another way to close for the 'closers' on selling (still) overpriced and unaffordable housing...
Glengarry Glenn Ross II.
Yeah Noob...but the serious independent research goes on about why we are involved in multiuple wars, an economic cycle bubble crash, growing civil unrest, etc. all of which has to do with where the 'leaders' took us in this obvious 'disaster' of a 'New Century'...
The leaders have shown they are pretty much inept at planning large, nuanced operations, and I assume you're not indicating that all of these independent events have been somehow synchronized by a malevolent cabal of the elite or something?
Sometimes a sequence of really bad decisions can look like an intentional conspiracy. But that doesn't make them any more than a sequence of really bad decisions.
broward (homepage, profile) wrote on Wed, 10/28/2009 - 1:26 pm
That's a good argument, Bob. But I'll argue back that under the current system, what we now have is a lot of peer-to-peer confusion. Instead of one central bank & policy, we now have many acting from different perspectives. Instead of one regulatory agency, we have many. Instead of one language, we have many.
We have a complex system of trading and shipping and what does it buy us, really?
A whole lot of complexity & risk, no clear management directives or leaders, and for what?
Broward -- your argument for boer / mormon-like cultural conformity is both transparent and unconvincing. Please eschew attempting to use primitive psychohistorical techniques to meme-garden.
I'm fairly convinced many of the haters have never read it. Yeah, she couldn't have called it almost exactly as it's playing out today, but it's pretty darn close...
What the Republicans are doing is what the minority party traditionally used to do. It doesn't matter what needs to be done only that the majority party either accept or have responsibility forced upon it. The Dems now own these policies.
Yup. Make them earn it. I was all for same when W & GOP ran the shop.
Juvenal, I also found it interesting the passage about gold/manipulation of fiat currency on the following page. The Fed is calling plays from that playbook as well.
Given that Greensham was a Rand disciple, I've found myself wondering if he wasn't intentionally sabotaging the system in a John Galt movement of his own. But then I arrive at the conclusion that he was a conceited old fool who simply misunderstood her.
I'm fairly convinced many of the haters have never read it. Yeah, she couldn't have called it almost exactly as it's playing out today, but it's pretty darn close...
Yeah, I read it when I was a Young Republican, back in my college daze 30+ years ago. I should probably read it again. The brain of an dumbass idealist (like myself) will actively filter-out any information that doesn't fit the existing BS stories currently stored the brain. If I read it again today, it would be like reading a completely different book.
Can you require a company to literally mail you a check for one penny? It would be funny if there was a mass movement to do just that and ream BAC on postal charges.
You are not the first to make this supposition. Indeed, scanning the entirety of Greenspan's actions, he couldn't have done a better job of discrediting the system if he had deliberately set out to do so. And the simple truth is this- if he hadn't done it, some fool would have anyway- with malice aforethought or not.
merchants of fear (profile) wrote on Wed, 10/28/2009 - 2:02 pm Yeah Noob...but the serious independent research goes on about why we are involved in multiuple wars, an economic cycle bubble crash, growing civil unrest, etc. all of which has to do with where the 'leaders' took us in this obvious 'disaster' of a 'New Century'...
That's because this is not a crisis of specific policy, but of policy cohort. It's not about low central bank rates mispricing risk or opaque instruments, although both are part of it. It's ultimately about the leadership group that can't contextualize the policies it implements in a broad, deep enough frame of reference to make good policy. They're not evil geniuses, they're evil idiots.
noob,
Obviously we don't know know what exactly is going on with the clustermess and all the tricky details but I would bet you that the so-called elite and top whatever percent of the super-wealthy are 'organized' to some extent as much 'class analysis' over the years would indicate...
No difference between idealists Libertarians and Communist. They both fail to take into account the human nature and live in the their make believe world of the "noble savage".
Judas Beast has this interesting ying/yang quality about him, and when I see him mentioned along with Atlas Shrugged, as happens in maim-stream-media articles lately, It's as if it was he that wrote the book.
I see him more as somebody that grabbed at the brass ring, when opportunity knocked... and sold his soul for 15 minutes of fame and 30 pieces of silver.
Whether 'they' or the super-wealthy, powerful and connected are 'idiots' or 'evil'...the results will probably be the same...chaos...and 'crisis' legislation...
If you think an 'idiot' can become a billionaire or a trillionaire...good luck supporting that 'thesis'...
Sure they can. There are perfectly average people with large amounts of money, just as there are intellects of blinding genius pushing grocery carts in the back alley.
Sometimes life hands you a winning lottery ticket, and other times a giant sack of poop. Your genetic predisposition is only part of the equation.
merchants of fear (profile) wrote on Wed, 10/28/2009 - 2:32 pm
If you think an 'idiot' can become a billionaire or a trillionaire...good luck supporting that 'thesis'...
If this is a conspiracy, it is of the poorest quality possible. Crisis legislation? To do what, go bankrupt faster? There's a word for authoritarian states that can't make the payroll for the secret police -- "failed". Too big to fail, too big to bail. I'm not really seeing the upside for an evil conspiracy after America undergoes substate fragmentation and economic collapse.
We could say the 'Crash' is a Black Swan or unintended 'big' event with no organization, cooperation, or premeditation involved. That wars are Black Swans. Bubbles are Black Swans. Good luck. With showing that political/economic social activity and dramatic events (unrelated to anything) are random and unpredictable.
Not sure exactly. It was gradual, but two major events seemed too caused doubt. The first was a 9 month stint in Europe (London mostly) and the people there didn't look like oppressed unhappy socialists toiling in darkness hoping to be rescued by the free-market Americans (and the beer was good too). The second was when I moved to a suburb of Tallahassee FL and - unbeknownst to me - one of THOSE PEOPLE lived right down the block on the SAME street as I was (!) - and the family was NORMAL - and other neighbors talked to them (Tallahassee, while in the FL panhandle - which IS the deep-south, was pretty cosmopolitan at the upper-middle-class level - MUCH more than Chicago, where I moved from).
Edit: I never went to the socialist side tho. It was: fascist to nothing.
No difference between idealists Libertarians and Communist. They both fail to take into account the human nature and live in the their make believe world of the "noble savage".
Put another way -- they posit a social system that would work -- if people were angels. Often the case with utopian visions. I've heard libertarians talk the same talk -- we could do away with most gov't if people could just be "trained" to solve problems among themselves. (Firearms training?)
Engels was a little more realistic; he felt the communist paradise wouldn't come until technology could easily provide for the wants of all. But he underestimated the amount of technology required, and he also underestimated human greed.
See noob...I think cooperation and some organization is involved in making that king of big money...not necessarily genius or even intelligence...
That's why I like "smart" instead of "intelligence". Raw "intelligence" probably isn't as important as "people skills" like deviousness, cunning, planning, game-theory, stuff like that.
cinco-x:Folks across the street wanted to build a 3k sq. ft. home on an existing lot, and their contractor quoted $850k. WTF! That guy must be living in an alternate universe or something-
C'mon now, not if the house has pergo and granite.
Uncle Ar,
I was telling y'all what the people across the street told me, not just making stuff up. I had a house quoted (it was a timber frame) and though I owned the land and had done quite a lot if improvements and planned to do the contracting myself, the quotes still came in at over $350k for a 1600 sq ft house. I told the carpenter that was going to be my site supervisor to forget it. These folks in the home building industry still think it's going to go back to being like 2005....Newsflash! It's not!
My phone calls yesterday went to: the NYFed, on why they don't comment on Geithner's secret AIG 100% payout on CDS sham (as per Bloomberg, owned by the suddenly populist oligarch of the same name); and the SEC, on why Commissioner Aguilar had a secret meeting with GS on dark pools on Sept. 24 (as per Bloomberg...).
Calling again today, how about some help?
NYFED: 212-720-6130
SEC: 202-732-6585
Rand clearly differentiated between the capitalists and the financiers. Between productive generators of wealth and prosperity, and the looters. Between the inventors and the thieves. Between builders and bankers.
Rand's nightmare vision of a people subjugated by a power elite responsible to no-one, stealing what they want, buying power and privilege, lying to the masses and controlling the media, and in the end choking the life out of the republic -- is playing out before our eyes.
From citizens to consumers.
Where now is your liberty, your virtue, your pusuit of happiness, your noble truths self-evident? Pledged as collateral for a loan from Citi?
Greenspan: "An old fool who misunderstood her ..." A lot of that going around. Hmmph.
See noob...I think cooperation and some organization is involved in making that king of big money...not necessarily genius or even intelligence...
Yup... rich eggs cooperating w/ rich sperm to form an 'organization'. And if you don't think most 'real money' isn't inherited well then you just aren't paying attention. That is the way it is and the way it always was. Probably the way it will always be. There are some rags to riches and riches to rags stories but mostly the classes color within the lines.
Oct. 28 (Bloomberg) -- CIT Group Inc., the 101-year-old commercial lender seeking to avoid collapse, received $4.5 billion in financing by expanding an existing credit facility.
The loan came from a “diverse group of lenders” including bondholders, who also supplied the company with $3 billion of financing in July, New York-based CIT said today in a statement distributed by Business Wire.
merchants of fear (profile) wrote on Wed, 10/28/2009 - 2:40 pm
We could say the 'Crash' is a Black Swan or unintended 'big' event with no organization, cooperation, or premeditation involved. That wars are Black Swans. Bubbles are Black Swans. Good luck. With showing that political/economic social activity and dramatic events (unrelated to anything) are random and unpredictable.
Or good luck with showing how every historical event ever is part of some nebulous conspiracy of "Bilderbergers" or Jews or evil cigar-champing capitalists whatever your object of fixation is. We're all pros here hon. Maybe you might want to try working the FOXNews forums instead.
Not that there aren't conspiracies aplenty, but if you think a complex system like the global political economy can be steered centrally, you don't understand how complex systems work. Everyone everywhere is part of many conspiracies, we're social animals. We all want our enemies to falter and our friends to succeed. Trying to pick out one network of influences to assign a central role, you are either ignorant and trying to simplify that which cannot be reduced, or trying to set the dogs on someone you don't like.
Confronting someone with their own stated belief system is in no way provocative If anything it is a sign of respect in that you were heard by your so-called "agent provocateur".
Rob Dawg wrote:
It doesn't matter what needs to be done only that the majority party either accept or have responsibility forced upon it.
You say that like it's a bad thing. Responsibility was once thought of as a GOOD thing-
Emphasis on "once." The peoples' employees need to be re-reminded occasionally.
"Libertarians like Ayn Rand are idealists whose ideas enable the chaos we see today "
In the rise of any system there are idealists and the rest. The rest wipe out the idealists early on. Idealists are a threat to any system as they are uncorruptible.
This happened in Russia, China, most of Eastern Europe, Cuba and it's happening now in the US.
You mean regarding this: The 'smart' part of the big scams is making us believe this is 'normal' or even 'legitimate'...
If so, I think that's THE "smartest" (most amazing) effect of the Reagan Revolution. They conned enough of the peasants into believing that the people on top WERE the righteous people. It was SUCH a pervasive behavior change that even the major religions stopped claiming greed was bad (allowing them to concentrate on important vices like fornicating-harlots and the male-5th-appendage).
Truth is most of the so-called 'wealthy' are being downsized right now with asset transfers to the bigger fish...
Absolutely - the wealth of the middle & upper middle class are being 'assimilated' into the portfolios of the super rich. No surprise there... I mean how much blood can you squeeze from a turnip [i.e. squeeze more from the poor]? Answer: not much. How much can they squeeze from the middle and upper middle? A whole S load... so they go to the well until somebody stops them - nothing has so far. In that respect they aren't 'stoopid'... unless it ends with their head on a stick. Then they were too smart by half.
See noob...I think cooperation and some organization is involved in making that king of big money...not necessarily genius or even intelligence...
No question, but we're talking unintended consequences/outcomes, which I'm not completely convinced are totally malicious. I feel that you're imagining a bunch of guys in lab coats in front of a giant chalkboard, writing out intricate decision trees and critical paths to determine the optimal way to screw us over.
I picture a bunch of pot-bellied dudes sitting around a campfire, drinking beer and saying to each other "you know what'd be fun? I'll grab this gun, inner-tube, and you take this frisbee. I'm going to go down the rapids in the inner-tube, and when I get close you toss the frisbee as high as you can, and imma gunna shoot it. Here, hold my beer."
Byzantine,
Yeah if there is a conspiracy there was deception and a cover-up so the ones who profited are under the radar or in the shadows. Big money could pay for control of public info. Agreed? Big money can influence politicians. Agreed? Big money can capture 'regulators'...agreed? Big special interest lobbies can get favored legislation passed. Agreed? So it's hard to know ho deep the big money control goes. The exact layers of the organizational aspects of the class system. We rely maybe on purchased info and laws so conspiracy is misleading justice and legal enforcement term...it's social organization maybe...we are talking about...
NOTaREALmerican (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Wed, 10/28/2009 - 1:14 pm
Altruism?
NO! A reality based one. An "ism" that accommodates the last 10000 years of human history and experiences.
Something that acknowledges the incredible awfulness of humans – and yet – provides a framework for managing a society of them (the humans).
NaRm -- altruism could work, actually, but here we hit adverse selection... the types of people predisposed to behave altruistically are actively screened out of gaining power (they don't seek it), amassing great wealth (they take what is necessary, save, and give away or invest in others or projects voluntarily), and gaining fame or notoriety (they wish to remain anonymous/in the background and let their actions speak for themselves). The self-interested won't pick altruistic strategies in most cases because there is an opportunistic payoff or threshold of defection, and they seek power, wealth, and notoriety by any means necessary.
I have to credit CR the best and only ism that is going to apply is the clusterf***kism we find ourselves in.
See how fast I got my junk done so I could come back? Yeah I can hear the groans from here.
Rand was a wannabe philosopher, who forgot that human nature requires attending to in no uncertain terms no matter what 'ism' is applied. I read that book 3 times, (in my 30s) it messed with my head for awhile until I found the FALLACIES of her premise. If the premise is WRONG then everything thereafter is wrong with the exception of that stopped watch being correct twice a day.
Whats wrong today is the smart amoral scumbags fear nothing now-not burning in hell, not rebellion, not anything because they own everything and call all the shots. Having no conscious regarding the consequences of their actions to real-live-breathing people really helps smart amoral scumbags a lot.
and if anyone wants an example of an idiot, look no farther than Donald Trump and progeny here; across the pond...the "Royal family".
Rand clearly differentiated between the capitalists and the financiers. Between productive generators of wealth and prosperity, and the looters. Between the inventors and the thieves. Between builders and bankers.
Unfortunately, that interpretation doesn't jibe with the current meme, i.e. it doesn't make a good, memorable sound bite. Too much critical thinking involved-
It does tho. It takes ALLOT of brains to cheat and not get caught.
Well, true enough but there is historical fraud happening right now out in the open and even larger fraud behind the veil of government enforced secrecy. People like this are not hiding. They do not need to hide. If they had to actually hide I agree it would take a lot of brains not to get caught. Or a big fucking ranch in Paraguay.
NaRm -- altruism could work, actually, but here we hit adverse selection...
I think it "could work" IF the "adverse selections" - which you pointed out - WEREN'T the normal selections for the "smartest amoral scumbag" humans. So, altruism as an explanation of past human behavior (in total) and as a predictor for future human behavior (in total) wouldn't be an "ism" that I'd bet my life on.
It's much easier to become emotionally invested in lovable idiots. Evil idiots eventually just piss you off.
How about 'Apprentice' - does that qualify?
The proof of the pudding is in the eating; I will never watch that show, or any other reality show for that matter; it only encourages the networks to make more of them-
"Apollo runs the University of Phoenix, the nation’s largest private university with 443,000 students, most of whom take classes via the Internet. Federal student aid accounted for about 86 percent of company revenue in fiscal 2009, Apollo said yesterday in a filing. That’s up from 82 percent in fiscal 2008 and 48 percent in fiscal 2001"
Mildly shocking that federal student aid is such a high percentage of revenue.
Rand was an academic (sort of). I loved reading that she wanted to learn algebra but couldn't master it. So if thats any indication of her ability to think logically and deduce, well, I'll leave you to your own conclusions. She was a wannabe academic, wannbe lots of things. Like most people of her ilk; she took kernels of truth and twisted them into something else.
Rand gave narcissists the all clear to be narcissists and not suffer any consequences because as narcissists they are entitled to be narcissists. LOL!
Mildly shocking that federal student aid is such a high percentage of revenue.
Who can afford to pay for private institution education out of pocket? Heck, who can pay for all of public institution education out of pocket? There are only so many work studies and scholarships to go around nowadays and enrollment is only going up.
People like this are not hiding. They do not need to hide.
And, creating a society where you don't have to hide WHILE you loot the entire society is a REALLY amazing accomplishment. Stupid people don't do this kinda stuff. But smart (in total) people can.
Who can afford to pay for private institution education out of pocket? Heck, who can pay for all of public institution education out of pocket? There are only so many work studies and scholarships to go around nowadays and enrollment is only going up.
Unfortunately, it is all of the govt. programs that have helped drive that cost out of sight. If you put all of that cash out there for the taking, someone's going to find a way to get it, and if they don't use it all up, then there'll be less available next year-
When doom sets in, all the isms suffer on here. I keep waiting for the one true ism to emerge (which will rule over all).
Today when office workers have de facto supercomputers on their desks (compared to those room fillers in 1985), human jobs are starting to disappear faster and faster. Almost everything are done by efficient machines and in huge quantities, unimaginable in the 19th century.
So either we will have a New New Deal, this time sharing the "fruits" made by robots some fair way to masses of "Unworkers" or we will eventually have The Great Collapse because of huge inequality differences.
and after you or the parents are done financing (and please-we must have that advanced degree otherwise-no living wage for you)-you will find yourself in a shaky job market and little chance to actually find a profit out of working your tail off to get educated. Its one of the worst examples of inflation in the nation. Cinco-I don't agree with you on this one. Look the "CEO" salaries of the so called higher education institutions get...and the 'perks'.
Unfortunately, it is all of the govt. programs that have helped drive that cost out of sight. If you put all of that cash out there for the taking, someone's going to find a way to get it, and if they don't use it all up, then there'll be less available next year-
NaRM has stated (as below) that student loans is one of the last lines of funds that hasn't been affected in the downturn. They are funneling and securitizing student loans like MBS back in 2005, and for whatever reason, they are still inflating that . The gov't is a good reason that the Higher Ed is what it is, and being one of the last members standing of the 30+ yr credit, its pop will be awe-inspiring.
.
FD: I have a special bottle of wine to pop once one of my nearby private universities closes it doors for good.
.
Nanoo-Nanoo wrote:
Its one of the worst examples of inflation in the nation. Cinco-I don't agree with you on this one. Look the "CEO" salaries of the so called higher education institutions get...and the 'perks'.
See my FD above. The Higher Ed. is a problem for most parties involved. It will pop, and I cannot imagine the extent of the once it does pop. People may start shunning higher educational degrees if the people before them get burned too badly by them... or not.
noob,
I don't think the really super-rich wear lab coats but maybe they wear NY and Paris 'designer' stuff...or maybe they wear nothing at all in private...
Rand gave narcissists the all clear to be narcissists and not suffer any consequences because as narcissists they are entitled to be narcissists. LOL!
And only the religions can tackle this one too. Greed and narcissism (hmm, that's an "ism" too) are not nearly as bad as fornicatin'-harlots and the wild-male-5th-appendages.
NOTaREALmerican (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Wed, 10/28/2009 - 2:02 pm
I think it "could work" IF the "adverse selections" - which you pointed out - WEREN'T the normal selections for the "smartest amoral scumbag" humans. So, altruism as an explanation of past human behavior (in total) and as a predictor for future human behavior (in total) wouldn't be an "ism" that I'd bet my life on.
Nope. It's a dominated strategy, but not always and often not by that much. So it's a bit of unpredictability in the decision matrix, since it would of course be "stupid" to pick a losing strategy on purpose. Is that useful? I don't know. Maybe precognition or intuition will end up being the answer. We'll see, I guess.
I can't believe we are having a Rand debate ... I guess some of us didn't get enough in our wild and wooly undergrad days ... ok, here goes:
Yes, the inventors and producers need the financiers to get product developed, but when the financiers go from facilitators to power-brokers, and sieze control of not just the engineering but also the government and social constructs, things get out of whack. Criminal types are able to take control of existing structures, and pervert them for short-term personal profit at the general expense of society, while receiving protection from government-types who are on the take.
Rand deals explicitly with this dynamic. She did not seem to be on the side of the perverted criminal banksters, back when I read the book.
And yes, Atlas Shrugged makes a heck of a doorstop. We used an old copy to prop up an ancient color tv for like, a whole semester in the 80s.
Unfortunately, it is all of the govt. programs that have helped drive that cost out of sight. If you put all of that cash out there for the taking, someone's going to find a way to get it, and if they don't use it all up, then there'll be less available next year-
But like the spawn of billionaires, most of the non-hiding uber-wealthy ride on the coat-tails of the the really smart few. Just need to get hitched up to the 'right' wagon.
Today when office workers have de facto supercomputers on their desks (compared to those room fillers in 1985), human jobs are starting to disappear faster and faster
I can't possibly imagine that I am any more productive than my counterparts 20 years ago. The only way in which this is not true is in my ability to seek out information. When it comes to synthesis, analysis, and composition, however, my predecessors were almost certainly faster, in no small part due to fewer distractions.
NaRm,
We don't really know who the really big big investors are. They aren't on Fortune 500 lists. Who are the big 'investors' in our central banks or any of the central banks. You can't invest there. Ya know.
better to make an exception to the welfare rules for that- rather than perpetuate the myth that all these folks collecting extended unemployment benefits are not getting welfare. BTW I don't object to these people being helped. It is just that I am offended by the mind sight "government helping me is my entitlement - government helping somebody else is socialist".
No. Creating a society where they let you loot the entire society in hopes that they can loot it after you and praise you for your looting is a REALLY amazing accomplishment.
Explains a lot of your attitude Chicago neighborhoods can be very cliquish/clanish, but the Marquette Pk 'hood has been decimated by it. There's good reason Nazis chose to march in that park in the mid-80's.
o they go to the well until somebody stops them - nothing has so far. In that respect they aren't 'stoopid'... unless it ends with their head on a stick. Then they were too smart by half.
University-wise? I'm in the SE part of the US. Won't get more specific because I keep hearing many smaller private universities (Think NAIA types) seem to keep fitting the mold.
See, that's just it ... the banksters are not "investing" anymore. They are just taking whatever they want.
Look at GMAC. Rational investors shunned it, but it is getting another few billion every few months, now.
In all seriousness, how is it that Medicaid recipients get Viagra paid for and women can't get birth control pills paid for?
A woman can take precautions to avoid unwanted pregnancies and still have sex without BCs. Men on the other hand need sex and can't be denied. That is how fights get started.
yagij (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Wed, 10/28/2009 - 2:19 pm
No. Creating a society where they let you loot the entire society in hopes that they can loot it after you and praise you for your looting is a REALLY amazing accomplishment.
And what of a society where future looters will pay large amounts of money and compete with fellow future looters in order to study how the looters successfully looted a society in the hopes that they themselves can pull off an even bigger heist?
And what of a society where future looters will pay large amounts of money and compete with fellow future looters in order to study how the looters successfully looted a society in the hopes that they themselves can pull off an even bigger heist?
HA! Yeah, what's AFTER the Looting Bowl post-game show (brought to you by Budweiser) isn't known. The looters probably didn't even dream they'd get as far as they've already gotten, so quickly.
Oct. 28 (Bloomberg) -- New York Lieutenant Governor Richard Ravitch predicted states across the U.S. would face deficits totaling as much as $500 billion in 2011 after the federal government stops paying them economic stimulus grants.
Ravitch, 76, a real estate developer and former chairman of New York’s Metropolitan Transportation Authority, said the looming nationwide fiscal crisis would first become apparent as states’ credit ratings falter, making it more expensive to borrow money.
And what of a society where future looters will pay large amounts of money and compete with fellow future looters in order to study how the looters successfully looted a society in the hopes that they themselves can pull off an even bigger heist?
In all seriousness, how is it that Medicaid recipients get Viagra paid for and women can't get birth control pills paid for?
Men on the other hand need sex and can't be denied. That is how fights get started
Shouldn't Viagra only be for those on Medicare? I don't think we should worry too much about old geezers fighting. And as for birth control, I think mother nature takes care of that aspect before the ladies are on Medicare.
My word, I laughed at that. Why is it no one has done an "Evil Idiots" sitcom yet? Think of the possibilities...
They did, back in the '80s; it was called "Empire," about an absurd and evil corporation run by scoundrels and incompetents. Patrick MacNee was the CEO. The guy who played the evil military intelligence major on MASH was the head of corporate security. It lasted about a month -- some topics just aren't that funny week after week.
all these folks collecting extended unemployment benefits are not getting welfare. BTW I don't object to these people being helped. It is just that I am offended by the mind sight "government helping me is my entitlement - government helping somebody else is socialist".
All us folks collecting UEI paid IN to the insurance. Plus, idle hands do the Devils work, so it may be in the publics interest to pay the unemployed to keep looking for work, rather than look to other markets...
Libertarians like Ayn Rand are idealists whose ideas enable the chaos we see today
No doubt idealists that grab power enable chaos, but one is hard pressed to find a smaller set of idealists in the US than Libertarians. To blame them for enablement of anything is preposterous.
I used to have a Liberty University laundry bag. I have no idea how I acquired it, or even what it represented until I heard it referenced on the Internet somewhere.
It's a dominated strategy, but not always and often not by that much.
Yeah, I have read that. Perhaps, in the great DNA game show, the altruistic DNA will win the game - in the end (and the meek do inherit the earth). But, moment to moment, I want to live like the smart amoral scumbags and get all the best females. WHERE IS MY BAILOUT!!!!
Its not Uncle AR, Medicaid recipients get it. Now if it was prescribed for the reasons it should be, I'd not yell; but we all know it is grossly over prescribed.
noob goldberg (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Wed, 10/28/2009 - 2:28 pm
ResistanceIsFeudal wrote:
And what of a society where future looters will pay large amounts of money and compete with fellow future looters in order to study how the looters successfully looted a society in the hopes that they themselves can pull off an even bigger heist?
I think we should call that society "America".
I was thinking top-tier business schools, but that works, too.
I love the monetization of pollution. It is a hysterically funny symbol of extreme government capture. I cannot believe that we are so incomprehensibly stupid that we cannot see corporations are trying capture the right to POLLUTE (?!). They want to institutionalize and securitize and trade their pollution. I'm sure it will go forward as advertised. Why not? Who's going to stop it? There are no checks and balances any longer.
Idealists NEVER grab power. If you look at Russia, Hungary, Cuba, China and others the idealists always ended up in jail or dead soon after the revolution succeeded. Idealists are a threat to any system.
University of Phoenix only got a leg up when Intel greenlighted paying for masters degree courses for employees. Unfortunately a couple of years back Intel realized that these courses were one giant that they pulled the plug. Hence the rise of financial aid %.
3 torches,
But A. Rand needed to realize that 'financiers' need to be regulated or they will become predatory...prevention is worth a pound of no regulation 'cure'...
I agree. It's clear that Phoenix has been helping itself to a sizable share of the student loan $. I personally never understood the appeal of paying $40K a year for liberal arts college that no one from more than 50 miles away ever heard of.
So, you must be from those-parts too, if you know of Marquette Pk.
Yep, grew up about 10 miles southeast of there but played a lot of ball in Marquette Pk. The South Side has certain charms that one can only appreciate after moving away, but the seemingly ingrained willful ignorance is not one of them; a seemingly opposite but no-less-harmful willful ignorance exists in academia - I find it useful to have both at arms length but there's no way I could live in the thick of either anymore.
But A. Rand needed to realize that 'financiers' need to be regulated or they will become predatory...prevention is worth a pound of no regulation 'cure'...
Merchants,
Rand was smart enough to understand that financiers' corruption was political corruption. Seriously, do you really think an institution like the Federal Reserve, or any other central bank on the planet, has broken loose from political control in this crisis? Every single one of them is a check kiting operation between bankers and the treasuries of their countries- every single one. And now, we have all the politicians, promising, cross their hearts, that they will root out the corruption once and for all. Fools believe these promises.
alrighty then, drivers start your exploding head icons!
This will be a good test of just how bought our Congress actually is.
...
Oh, who am I kidding. It's a sure thing.
(Edit: Er, "whom". I mean "whom am I kidding".)
Such are the effects of my strongly worded emails to Sens. Boxer and Feinstein. Democracy in action!
Something about sausages and legislation...
I left them both voice mail. Sen. Boxer's message assured me that she cares deeply about my views, which I found very reassuring.
As Ms. Olick concluded: "Stay tuned... TO CNBC!
And they wrote it so I STILL can't take advantage of it, even though I wouldn't be stupid enough to take a $15K credit to buy a place that was $50K overpriced.
Pretty sure it was my emails. I attached an image of a check for 1,000,000 dollars!
You mean U.S. dollars?
Just what is wrong with a home buyers tax credit attached to an unemployment benefit extension? idiots
Just went to Denninger's site and I didn't see the 'ALL CAPS' thing...he does use bold print sometimes...and he was saying The Fed doesn't deserve more Power. Man, that's just CRAZY talk!
I've got a Brussels sprouts ad up. How does that fit? New home buyers eligible in Brussels?
Another multi-pigged day! Got to go...
digalert wrote:
That's just a procedural method of rapidly getting the bill through the house.
There is no urgency whatsoever for any spending bills now that the Wall St. bonus pool has been stabilized at record levels.
Mine stronger! Thanks for the reminder yesterday, whoever it was.
Rob Dawg, It is interesting that Olick is suggesting one group doesn't want the "controversial" tax credit as part of the unemployment extension, and Reuters seems to imply another group is having problems with the unemployment extension.
Politics is too weird.
best to all
merchants of fear wrote:
Congress: Where Are The Subpoenas? - The Market Ticker
now how can they scratch each others back if bills arent combined?
@Bob Dobbs on inevitability of shrinking work regardless of outsourcing -
That's a good argument, Bob. But I'll argue back that under the current system, what we now have is a lot of peer-to-peer confusion. Instead of one central bank & policy, we now have many acting from different perspectives. Instead of one regulatory agency, we have many. Instead of one language, we have many.
We have a complex system of trading and shipping and what does it buy us, really?
A whole lot of complexity & risk, no clear management directives or leaders, and for what?
and that anybody thinks our debt is worth having is weirder still.
I think this bill pretty much should make it clear to any debt holder that if they are expecting the US to get its "fiscal house" in order it just isn't going to happen. We can't kill an ineffective and fraud prone tax credit- any chance we are going to raise a tax?
Why not create UHBTC (unemployed home buyer tax credit) now, then later create FHFU (free homes for unemployed)?
I missed the Distressing Gap thread entirely.
A belated Thank You to CR for the amazing, and still distressing, Distressing Gap chart.
Mr Slippery, thanks.
All, Albrt has another guest post on a court ruling that we will have ready to post around 9 PM ET, 6 PM PT. Might make for some interesting discussion ... and I definitely think Tanta would approve.
best to all
"A belated Thank You to CR for the amazing, and still distressing, Distressing Gap chart. "
I need that chart calculated using ounces of gold. EVERY chart needs to be displayed versus glod if it's going to be of any use!
gabyjan wrote:
We also wouldn't get those fun coincidences, like having the 2008 financial bailout attached to the Paul Wellstone and Pete Domenici Mental Health Parity and Addiction Equity Act of 2008. Which I always thought was somewhat appropriate.
Sent messages yesterday to both Senators from NC and my Rep. Didn't know I had this much power .
While the GOP (and Obama) are itching their worry warts about the cost of health care reform (that O won't let go over $900 billion over 10 years - a measely $90 B a year that is offset fully to result in no net budget increase), we are about to embark on a housing giveaway that is completely unfunded (with narry a peap from the 'fiscal conservatives'.)
I hope that the housing thing is a separate bill, and that Obama, for once, vetoes the bill as fiscally irresponsible.
we will cutting medicaire payments to doctors, won't extend unemployment benefits but have the money for a worthless tax credit.
BTW I don't understand why we need to extend unemployment benefits. At this point we are way past the actuarial point where insurance premiums cover the payment- it is nothing more than welfare. We already have a welfare system- let the unemployed collect welfare. Or is that since the vast majority of people collecting unemployment are white they want to be saved from the stigma of a system that caters to "lazy black people". If we are going to extend unemployment it shouldn't be for any Republican's because I am sure that they wouldn't want any part of that socialism thing.
Almost off topic but actually more of an meta-comment.
What the Republicans are doing is what the minority party traditionally used to do. It doesn't matter what needs to be done only that the majority party either accept or have responsibility forced upon it. The Dems now own these policies.
Politicians calculate the value of emails, faxes, phone calls, etc. as representing a percentage of their constituents. For example, one email represents 12 voters, a phone call = 40 - that sort of thing. All joking aside, I think it does make a difference, small though it may be.
Noob,
Well if this clustermess doesn't deserve a few 'crazy' all caps then the status quo 'preserve the bubble' policies must be of lower case significance.
Hopefully NO MORE SUCKERS get suckered into the squid ponzi buying houses now!! (I used two exclamation points.)
Rob,
The 'People' now 'own' these policies.
Speed wrote:
For easy reference: Congressional phone = (202) 224-3121
Rob Dawg wrote:
The job of the minority party is ALWAYS to make the other side look bad. That's the difference between political and business negotiations. Businesses are usually driven to something approximating a win-win because one side will generally walk away if they don't get something out of it. Politics is almost always about getting to a win-lose situation, the worse you can make the other side look, the better.
Well, I have been thinking of taking a vacation, and received a memo from Washington on what to do so as to not be surprised when I returned. Since I might be gone a few weeks, I followed the "extended time away from home list"
3.Check and record credit card limits.
4.Send to Washington
5.Have power of attorney for checking and savings accounts and credit cards drawn up...
...don't think I left anything out...should have a great time.
merchants of fear wrote:
It does warrant it. He's just attempting to use a vocal rhetorical technique in written form, and it doesn't translate all that well. Two different medium requiring different approaches.
The Dems now own these policies.
What's amazing about that is they don't mind. They probably think it's a good thing.
broward wrote:
I don't believe in the current system at all; just if we brought all manufacturing and processing home and automated the hell out of it -- which would probably happen, and might have started happening much more widely 15-20 years ago if we'd got tough on illegal immigration and not let manufacturing bolt to China -- we'd face the same problem of underemployment we're facing now. Maybe with a richer overall society and a less debased currency to start from.
Down the road there's a question then of how people are supported, who pays for what, whether and how income is redistributed to keep society running in a stable fashion, and overall how/whether society should reorient itself from a consumer society to a society that provides other economic services to itself that don't figure into current GDP calculations. It may be as simply, as somebody said, having somebody stay home to do all the things and provide all the services that the GDP economy currently provides. I heard once that the services of a full-time housewife or househusband would cost out in six figures if outsourced.
And exactly what welfare program do you imagine that they would qualify for? Example of an able-bodied 40 year old man. What program?
sdtfs wrote:
Why would they "mind"? Each Party has its 35% dumbass base. Each only needs another 15% to win. When you sell politicians like F-150 trucks, who cares what the policies are.
It won't.
Oh the Drama of it all CR.
Maybe the delay has to do with funding. The Fed is at the bitter end of their announced Treasury buying plan. Maybe the Chinese aren't keen on funding an extension of payments to OUR unemployed.
Oh who am I kidding. The Fed has hundreds of billions of MBS purchases to go.
Yep, they're playing 'hide the legislation' again....
Noob,
This is where Karl D got on a slippery slope and was in full attack mode on an issue he probably hasn't researched very much...obviously...
MyProps.org - Jim Willie Proves He Has No Brain - Karl Denninger's Blog - The Market Ticker
The homebuyer tax credit is a GOP policy as you well know. The Dems were foolish to include it in the stim package in a Quixotic attempt to get GOP votes. They got none. Nut the idea of Democrats owning that policy is absurd. And I'm still hopeful it will be killed.
Ever been to a really hopping party and it gets a little late in the evening, and all it takes is one person or couple announcing that they are leaving, which always behooves a few people that were just waiting for somebody else to make the first move, so they too could split?
That's what it feels like now, everybody is looking @ the exit sign waiting for somebody to make a move first~
Angry Saver wrote (in the
thread):
I can only hope that the director in charge of the announced "Atlas Shrugged" miniseries is Martin Brest, director of Gigli.
That would put the cult of Rand to bed for good.
miniseries is Martin Brest, director of Gigli.
John Travolta as the leading man would help too
merchants of fear wrote:
I'm pretty sure I read the opening paragraph to that ticker and promptly closed the tab. I have a hard time talking with 9/11 conspiracy-types without being reduced to giggles.
Interesting Map, even I was shocked.
http://www.privacyinternational.org/article.shtml?cmd[347]=x-347-559597
So what does a phone call from Goldman's CEO equal? My guess would be about 250 million, as evidenced by the bank bailout vote.
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
Dammit. I'm usually the last guy at those parties, trying to shovel the rest of the 3-hour-old warm shrimp into my gullet before I leave.
noob goldberg wrote:
Ayn is perfect for child-like Mericans. That's why it's so popular here, it's like a religion. Humans pick religions (the selective teachings of various deities) to match the beliefs their brain ALREADY has. The religion just re-enforces what is already known to be true.
nova wrote:
How about "Atlas Shrugged and Vampires!"
Libertarians like Ayn Rand are idealists whose ideas enable the chaos we see today by allowing so-called private enterprise to be free of regulation like the Glass Steagall Banking Reform Act. Rand was best known for her 'fiction'.
wow, that just hit me with a big wave of triste - I miss Tanta - hat's off to you albrt, those are big
's to fill...
Gees, haven't you ever heard of hiring illegal aliens for that? From what I hear you are not even required to pay social security taxes for them. Probably get a live in for about 15-20k a year.
Atlas Shrugged. What a joke. More like Atlas Shrugged and the world kept turning.
Dr. Suess's North/South Going Zax childrens book has more bearing than Ayn Rand's tripe. Of course dingbats like Greensham actually tried to implement Rand's idiocy and look at the results.
Good grief.
The big banks are going on 'strike' in a way...
But it's not very 'productive'...
Francisco d'Anconia
Gary wrote:
I don't think the extension of the credit is the big issue to the congresscritters of either party - the scope of it, as well as not passing up the opportunity for the GOP to get other poison pill amendments added to make the majority party look bad, will be what holds it up.
Angry Saver wrote:
But, but, but. It was because Greensham didn't implement a pure ENOUGH version. Don't ya see... If we just wish a little bit harder, boys-n-girls, we can go back to Oz. Now close your eyes and lets sing the Free Market song.
Angry Saver wrote:
Oh man, 'The Sneetches' has been a major teaching tool with my five year old, she will watch a TV commercial and say "McBean!"
That's my girl!
Wow! Rough place to be Randian today.
Yeah Noob...but the serious independent research goes on about why we are involved in multiuple wars, an economic cycle bubble crash, growing civil unrest, etc. all of which has to do with where the 'leaders' took us in this obvious 'disaster' of a 'New Century'...
I love Business Wire....
For carrying-on an undertaking of great advantage but no-one to know what it is
energyecon wrote:
Isn't that the one about people who buy-and-hold SRS? In the end the south-going Zax sues the author....
the problem is you can't own property and receive welfare as it is now.
**Not touching the alphabet soup welfare issues
Dead Shtick wrote:
When doom sets in, all the isms suffer on here. I keep waiting for the one true ism to emerge (which will rule over all).
Well, not SRS per se but rather any of the inverse ultras...
lol
NOTaREALmerican wrote:
oh man, what a target. i'm thinking the letter before "K"
Gangsta-ism is 'emerging'...into the open anyway...
Shouldn't an exploding head be messier? Unless, of course, it is Tim Geithner's.
Francisco d'Anconia
merchants of fear wrote:
Banksta-ism, you mean?
NOTaREALmerican wrote:
Altruism?
Juvenal,
Have been reading Atlas Shrugged recently -- I read that particular passage about 5 times. Very insightful, and hard to deny that we're there today.
Angry -- Agree that Rand's thinking has some serious flaws, but I think she's closer to right than wrong.
The 'home buyer tax credit' is another way to close for the 'closers' on selling (still) overpriced and unaffordable housing...
Glengarry Glenn Ross II.
merchants of fear wrote:
The leaders have shown they are pretty much inept at planning large, nuanced operations, and I assume you're not indicating that all of these independent events have been somehow synchronized by a malevolent cabal of the elite or something?
Sometimes a sequence of really bad decisions can look like an intentional conspiracy. But that doesn't make them any more than a sequence of really bad decisions.
broward (homepage, profile) wrote on Wed, 10/28/2009 - 1:26 pm
That's a good argument, Bob. But I'll argue back that under the current system, what we now have is a lot of peer-to-peer confusion. Instead of one central bank & policy, we now have many acting from different perspectives. Instead of one regulatory agency, we have many. Instead of one language, we have many.
We have a complex system of trading and shipping and what does it buy us, really?
A whole lot of complexity & risk, no clear management directives or leaders, and for what?
Broward -- your argument for boer / mormon-like cultural conformity is both transparent and unconvincing. Please eschew attempting to use primitive psychohistorical techniques to meme-garden.
Over-regulation may not even be a big a problem as de-regulation...must be a rational middle ground...
yagij wrote:
NO! A reality based one. An "ism" that accommodates the last 10000 years of human history and experiences.
Something that acknowledges the incredible awfulness of humans – and yet – provides a framework for managing a society of them (the humans).
Robert J. Hanlon
Have been reading Atlas Shrugged recently -- I read that particular passage about 5 times. Very insightful, and hard to deny that we're there today.
Like Marx with capitalism, very clear sighted as to the flaws, but the solution isn't better.
,rad Gavshire,
I'm fairly convinced many of the haters have never read it. Yeah, she couldn't have called it almost exactly as it's playing out today, but it's pretty darn close...
Makes for a good doorstop, as well.
NOTaREALmerican wrote:
Ev'rybody's talkin' 'bout
Bagism, Shagism, Dragism, Madism, Ragism, Tagism
This-ism, that-ism, ism ism ism
energyecon wrote:
That's precisely what was in my head, but I couldn't verbalize that quote. Thanks EE!
CalculatedRisk wrote:
Agree.
Never attribute to stupidity that which is adequately explained by more stupidity.
Yancey Ward
Rob Dawg wrote:
Yup. Make them earn it. I was all for same when W & GOP ran the shop.
BAC announces Dividend payable christmas eve... A whole Penny! Better than a lump of coal...?
Juvenal, I also found it interesting the passage about gold/manipulation of fiat currency on the following page. The Fed is calling plays from that playbook as well.
Given that Greensham was a Rand disciple, I've found myself wondering if he wasn't intentionally sabotaging the system in a John Galt movement of his own. But then I arrive at the conclusion that he was a conceited old fool who simply misunderstood her.
noob,
What happened in 2001 is a debate in physics & engineering now...
There are 'laws of physics'...
"I hope that the housing thing is a separate bill, and that Obama, for once, vetoes the bill as fiscally irresponsible"
LMFAO!! Really funny stuff.
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
Yeah, I read it when I was a Young Republican, back in my college daze 30+ years ago. I should probably read it again. The brain of an dumbass idealist (like myself) will actively filter-out any information that doesn't fit the existing BS stories currently stored the brain. If I read it again today, it would be like reading a completely different book.
Gary wrote:
You know the answer - none - there is no welfare, not anymore, not in the 60s war on poverty sense of the word.
But its coming back - either that or 60s style riots. Burn Baby Burn.
Can you require a company to literally mail you a check for one penny? It would be funny if there was a mass movement to do just that and ream BAC on postal charges.
Gavshire,
You are not the first to make this supposition. Indeed, scanning the entirety of Greenspan's actions, he couldn't have done a better job of discrediting the system if he had deliberately set out to do so. And the simple truth is this- if he hadn't done it, some fool would have anyway- with malice aforethought or not.
hmmm. dow 9800
dryfly wrote:
You also know, of course, the most REAL Mericans wouldn't believe this.
I don't think I have a hat for that...
merchants of fear (profile) wrote on Wed, 10/28/2009 - 2:02 pm
Yeah Noob...but the serious independent research goes on about why we are involved in multiuple wars, an economic cycle bubble crash, growing civil unrest, etc. all of which has to do with where the 'leaders' took us in this obvious 'disaster' of a 'New Century'...
That's because this is not a crisis of specific policy, but of policy cohort. It's not about low central bank rates mispricing risk or opaque instruments, although both are part of it. It's ultimately about the leadership group that can't contextualize the policies it implements in a broad, deep enough frame of reference to make good policy. They're not evil geniuses, they're evil idiots.
Someone please explain to me where the meme started that Obama might veto the home-buyer's credit extension/expansion?
sdtfs wrote:
Exactly. Marx & Engels never imagined the proletariat morphing into the bourgeoisie... but in MiniMcMansion Merica that is what happened.
Likewise Ayn Rand never imagined the capitalists becoming the useless eaters but that too is what happened in GS-JPM-Citified Merica.
Both visions are ridiculously flawed and obsolete. Hoocoodanode.
noob,
Obviously we don't know know what exactly is going on with the clustermess and all the tricky details but I would bet you that the so-called elite and top whatever percent of the super-wealthy are 'organized' to some extent as much 'class analysis' over the years would indicate...
No difference between idealists Libertarians and Communist. They both fail to take into account the human nature and live in the their make believe world of the "noble savage".
NOTaREALmerican wrote:
And when it returns they won't call it 'welfare' either even as they cash their checks.
Yancey Ward (profile) wrote on Wed, 10/28/2009 - 2:25 pm
Someone please explain to me where the meme started that Obama might veto the home-buyer's credit extension/expansion?
It seems to have come out of the attempt at attaching it to a political sacred cow.
Byzantine_Ruins wrote:
My word, I laughed at that. Why is it no one has done an "Evil Idiots" sitcom yet? Think of the possibilities...
,rad Gavshire,
Judas Beast has this interesting ying/yang quality about him, and when I see him mentioned along with Atlas Shrugged, as happens in maim-stream-media articles lately, It's as if it was he that wrote the book.
I see him more as somebody that grabbed at the brass ring, when opportunity knocked... and sold his soul for 15 minutes of fame and 30 pieces of silver.
Whether 'they' or the super-wealthy, powerful and connected are 'idiots' or 'evil'...the results will probably be the same...chaos...and 'crisis' legislation...
noob goldberg wrote:
I always thought that was on CSPAN, 7x24.
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
Better silver than shares of Pets.com or old GM.
NRA: So you really were a young republican? I thought you were joking yesterday. What opened your eyes and caused the about face?
noob,
If you think an 'idiot' can become a billionaire or a trillionaire...good luck supporting that 'thesis'...
,rad yagij,
I's c a riot coming out of this, if you keep it up.
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
A herd of gray mares stampeding me with their undervalued uselessness doesn't seem that risky to me.
merchants of fear wrote:
Sure they can. There are perfectly average people with large amounts of money, just as there are intellects of blinding genius pushing grocery carts in the back alley.
Sometimes life hands you a winning lottery ticket, and other times a giant sack of poop. Your genetic predisposition is only part of the equation.
merchants of fear wrote:
Billionaire? Just have billionaire parents - what's so smart about that?
It's easy. Just invent windshield wipers for eyeglasses.
Yancey Ward wrote:
That's part of the blanket meme that Obama is some sort of new American politician.
yagij wrote:
Well, since everyone seems to be panicking into cash today, you might as well buy some.
Careful ,rad,
I am wise to your Argent Provocateur ways...
merchants of fear (profile) wrote on Wed, 10/28/2009 - 2:32 pm
If you think an 'idiot' can become a billionaire or a trillionaire...good luck supporting that 'thesis'...
If this is a conspiracy, it is of the poorest quality possible. Crisis legislation? To do what, go bankrupt faster? There's a word for authoritarian states that can't make the payroll for the secret police -- "failed". Too big to fail, too big to bail. I'm not really seeing the upside for an evil conspiracy after America undergoes substate fragmentation and economic collapse.
Uncle Ar wrote:
I have this idea called the Optigrap...
I can haz circuit breakers?
Levels for 2009Q4:
-950 for a one hour halt
-1950 for a two hour halt
-2900 for an early close.
We could say the 'Crash' is a Black Swan or unintended 'big' event with no organization, cooperation, or premeditation involved. That wars are Black Swans. Bubbles are Black Swans. Good luck. With showing that political/economic social activity and dramatic events (unrelated to anything) are random and unpredictable.
Black-Eyed Dog wrote:
I've created a "Jump to Conclusions" mat....
Uncle Ar wrote:
Not sure exactly. It was gradual, but two major events seemed too caused doubt. The first was a 9 month stint in Europe (London mostly) and the people there didn't look like oppressed unhappy socialists toiling in darkness hoping to be rescued by the free-market Americans (and the beer was good too). The second was when I moved to a suburb of Tallahassee FL and - unbeknownst to me - one of THOSE PEOPLE lived right down the block on the SAME street as I was (!) - and the family was NORMAL - and other neighbors talked to them (Tallahassee, while in the FL panhandle - which IS the deep-south, was pretty cosmopolitan at the upper-middle-class level - MUCH more than Chicago, where I moved from).
Edit: I never went to the socialist side tho. It was: fascist to nothing.
The Official Website of NYC's Notorious Punk & Hardcore Band, Ism...
See noob...I think cooperation and some organization is involved in making that king of big money...not necessarily genius or even intelligence...
crazyv wrote:
Put another way -- they posit a social system that would work -- if people were angels. Often the case with utopian visions. I've heard libertarians talk the same talk -- we could do away with most gov't if people could just be "trained" to solve problems among themselves. (Firearms training?)
Engels was a little more realistic; he felt the communist paradise wouldn't come until technology could easily provide for the wants of all. But he underestimated the amount of technology required, and he also underestimated human greed.
But an 'idiot' would probably not work well with others...
Eric - we are a LONG way from CBs - down only 90 something last I looked. Don't get excited - you'll scare your puts.
merchants of fear wrote:
That's why I like "smart" instead of "intelligence". Raw "intelligence" probably isn't as important as "people skills" like deviousness, cunning, planning, game-theory, stuff like that.
Byzantine_Ruins wrote:
Thanks for saying this. I keep hearing "smartest guy in the room" BS. Cheating is the easy way. Doesn't take much brains.
From previous thread:
Uncle Ar,
I was telling y'all what the people across the street told me, not just making stuff up. I had a house quoted (it was a timber frame) and though I owned the land and had done quite a lot if improvements and planned to do the contracting myself, the quotes still came in at over $350k for a 1600 sq ft house. I told the carpenter that was going to be my site supervisor to forget it. These folks in the home building industry still think it's going to go back to being like 2005....Newsflash! It's not!
Comment by Uncle Ar from thread 'New and Existing Home Sales: The Distressing Gap'
Pwnzi wrote:
It does tho. It takes ALLOT of brains to cheat and not get caught.
NOTaREALmerican wrote:
What part of Chicago?
Large profits may not be enough for some elitist people...ever heard of a 'controller' type? Or 'power hunger'. Maybe it's an addiction.
From Newsmax:
Sarah Palin's New Book Now Just $4.97!
Hoocouldanode
My phone calls yesterday went to: the NYFed, on why they don't comment on Geithner's secret AIG 100% payout on CDS sham (as per Bloomberg, owned by the suddenly populist oligarch of the same name); and the SEC, on why Commissioner Aguilar had a secret meeting with GS on dark pools on Sept. 24 (as per Bloomberg...).
Calling again today, how about some help?
NYFED: 212-720-6130
SEC: 202-732-6585
The 'smart' part of the big scams is making us believe this is 'normal' or even 'legitimate'...
Charles Kiting wrote:
South side. 63rd and Kedzei (roughly).
Rob Dawg wrote:
I'm still hoping Comrade Kristina will send me her sausage and shrimp with tomato sauce recipe--
Rand clearly differentiated between the capitalists and the financiers. Between productive generators of wealth and prosperity, and the looters. Between the inventors and the thieves. Between builders and bankers.
From citizens to consumers.
Where now is your liberty, your virtue, your pusuit of happiness, your noble truths self-evident? Pledged as collateral for a loan from Citi?
Greenspan: "An old fool who misunderstood her ..." A lot of that going around. Hmmph.
Right NaRm?
merchants of fear wrote:
Yup... rich eggs cooperating w/ rich sperm to form an 'organization'. And if you don't think most 'real money' isn't inherited well then you just aren't paying attention. That is the way it is and the way it always was. Probably the way it will always be. There are some rags to riches and riches to rags stories but mostly the classes color within the lines.
Have you seen George Bush's new 100,000 hectare ranch in Paraguay?
How many different methods of cheating would there have been in the 1920's-30's?
Stock market manipulation, sure. A double set of books? most definitely.
Computers have allowed for a lot of hands-off cheating, and a myriad of ways of hiding it as well.
We couldn't have got here without them...
gabyjan wrote:
Ya', and who'd trust who if they weren't-
Yea! The world is a good place after all
Oct. 28 (Bloomberg) -- CIT Group Inc., the 101-year-old commercial lender seeking to avoid collapse, received $4.5 billion in financing by expanding an existing credit facility.
The loan came from a “diverse group of lenders” including bondholders, who also supplied the company with $3 billion of financing in July, New York-based CIT said today in a statement distributed by Business Wire.
merchants of fear (profile) wrote on Wed, 10/28/2009 - 2:40 pm
We could say the 'Crash' is a Black Swan or unintended 'big' event with no organization, cooperation, or premeditation involved. That wars are Black Swans. Bubbles are Black Swans. Good luck. With showing that political/economic social activity and dramatic events (unrelated to anything) are random and unpredictable.
Or good luck with showing how every historical event ever is part of some nebulous conspiracy of "Bilderbergers" or Jews or evil cigar-champing capitalists whatever your object of fixation is. We're all pros here hon. Maybe you might want to try working the FOXNews forums instead.
Not that there aren't conspiracies aplenty, but if you think a complex system like the global political economy can be steered centrally, you don't understand how complex systems work. Everyone everywhere is part of many conspiracies, we're social animals. We all want our enemies to falter and our friends to succeed. Trying to pick out one network of influences to assign a central role, you are either ignorant and trying to simplify that which cannot be reduced, or trying to set the dogs on someone you don't like.
Truth is most of the so-called 'wealthy' are being downsized right now with asset transfers to the bigger fish...
Rob Dawg wrote:
You say that like it's a bad thing. Responsibility was once thought of as a GOOD thing-
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
Confronting someone with their own stated belief system is in no way provocative If anything it is a sign of respect in that you were heard by your so-called "agent provocateur".
Sorry cinco, i forgot the snark tag.
merchants of fear wrote:
Yes; the Soviet Union was much better off between 1917 and 1991, not to mention that the Cultural Revolution was a real boon to the communist Chinese.
Most people with great fortunes "earned" them by virtue of birth.
Cinco-X wrote:
For other guilty parties. It is like Caveat Emptor. It is great when you are the seller. It sucks when you are the buyer.
Cinco-X wrote:
Emphasis on "once." The peoples' employees need to be re-reminded occasionally.
Gary wrote:
...The Lucky One-In-A-Billion Lottery Jackpot (aka sperm)
S&P Places Mortgage Insurers on CreditWatch As Data Dips
Research Recap » Blog Archive » S&P Places Mortgage Insurers on CreditWatch As Data Dips
(hoists self on own petard...)
Yancey Ward wrote:
Somebody foolishly tried to reference reality to fiscal responsibility-
"Libertarians like Ayn Rand are idealists whose ideas enable the chaos we see today "
In the rise of any system there are idealists and the rest. The rest wipe out the idealists early on. Idealists are a threat to any system as they are uncorruptible.
This happened in Russia, China, most of Eastern Europe, Cuba and it's happening now in the US.
Cinco-X wrote:
S&P Places Mortgage Insurers on CreditWatch As Data Dips
Party like it's 2007..............
merchants of fear wrote:
You mean regarding this: The 'smart' part of the big scams is making us believe this is 'normal' or even 'legitimate'...
If so, I think that's THE "smartest" (most amazing) effect of the Reagan Revolution. They conned enough of the peasants into believing that the people on top WERE the righteous people. It was SUCH a pervasive behavior change that even the major religions stopped claiming greed was bad (allowing them to concentrate on important vices like fornicating-harlots and the male-5th-appendage).
merchants of fear wrote:
Absolutely - the wealth of the middle & upper middle class are being 'assimilated' into the portfolios of the super rich. No surprise there... I mean how much blood can you squeeze from a turnip [i.e. squeeze more from the poor]? Answer: not much. How much can they squeeze from the middle and upper middle? A whole S load... so they go to the well until somebody stops them - nothing has so far. In that respect they aren't 'stoopid'... unless it ends with their head on a stick. Then they were too smart by half.
merchants of fear wrote:
No question, but we're talking unintended consequences/outcomes, which I'm not completely convinced are totally malicious. I feel that you're imagining a bunch of guys in lab coats in front of a giant chalkboard, writing out intricate decision trees and critical paths to determine the optimal way to screw us over.
I picture a bunch of pot-bellied dudes sitting around a campfire, drinking beer and saying to each other "you know what'd be fun? I'll grab this gun, inner-tube, and you take this frisbee. I'm going to go down the rapids in the inner-tube, and when I get close you toss the frisbee as high as you can, and imma gunna shoot it. Here, hold my beer."
Byzantine,
Yeah if there is a conspiracy there was deception and a cover-up so the ones who profited are under the radar or in the shadows. Big money could pay for control of public info. Agreed? Big money can influence politicians. Agreed? Big money can capture 'regulators'...agreed? Big special interest lobbies can get favored legislation passed. Agreed? So it's hard to know ho deep the big money control goes. The exact layers of the organizational aspects of the class system. We rely maybe on purchased info and laws so conspiracy is misleading justice and legal enforcement term...it's social organization maybe...we are talking about...
noob goldberg wrote:
It's much easier to become emotionally invested in lovable idiots. Evil idiots eventually just piss you off.
NOTaREALmerican (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Wed, 10/28/2009 - 1:14 pm
Altruism?
NO! A reality based one. An "ism" that accommodates the last 10000 years of human history and experiences.
Something that acknowledges the incredible awfulness of humans – and yet – provides a framework for managing a society of them (the humans).
NaRm -- altruism could work, actually, but here we hit adverse selection... the types of people predisposed to behave altruistically are actively screened out of gaining power (they don't seek it), amassing great wealth (they take what is necessary, save, and give away or invest in others or projects voluntarily), and gaining fame or notoriety (they wish to remain anonymous/in the background and let their actions speak for themselves). The self-interested won't pick altruistic strategies in most cases because there is an opportunistic payoff or threshold of defection, and they seek power, wealth, and notoriety by any means necessary.
Cinco-X wrote:
How about 'Apprentice' - does that qualify?
There seems to be an oversupply of schmoozer types that weaseled their way up into the ivory tower, as opposed to people of ability.
noob,
Read about 'colonialism', slavery, and 'debt peonage' in history and see if 'evil' is a useful term...it's a moral judgement term...
I have to credit CR the best and only ism that is going to apply is the clusterf***kism we find ourselves in.
See how fast I got my junk done so I could come back? Yeah I can hear the groans from here.
Rand was a wannabe philosopher, who forgot that human nature requires attending to in no uncertain terms no matter what 'ism' is applied. I read that book 3 times, (in my 30s) it messed with my head for awhile until I found the FALLACIES of her premise. If the premise is WRONG then everything thereafter is wrong with the exception of that stopped watch being correct twice a day.
Whats wrong today is the smart amoral scumbags fear nothing now-not burning in hell, not rebellion, not anything because they own everything and call all the shots. Having no conscious regarding the consequences of their actions to real-live-breathing people really helps smart amoral scumbags a lot.
and if anyone wants an example of an idiot, look no farther than Donald Trump and progeny here; across the pond...the "Royal family".
threetorches wrote:
Unfortunately, that interpretation doesn't jibe with the current meme, i.e. it doesn't make a good, memorable sound bite. Too much critical thinking involved-
And if you stand there today and think Donald Trump is John Galt, you may not have read closely enough.
Atlas Shrugged haters, what specifically do you so despise about something as novel as fiction?
Uncle Ar wrote:
Sorry, I forgot my sense or humor
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
If you can't beat 'em...
NOTaREALmerican wrote:
Well, true enough but there is historical fraud happening right now out in the open and even larger fraud behind the veil of government enforced secrecy. People like this are not hiding. They do not need to hide. If they had to actually hide I agree it would take a lot of brains not to get caught. Or a big fucking ranch in Paraguay.
ResistanceIsFeudal wrote:
I think it "could work" IF the "adverse selections" - which you pointed out - WEREN'T the normal selections for the "smartest amoral scumbag" humans. So, altruism as an explanation of past human behavior (in total) and as a predictor for future human behavior (in total) wouldn't be an "ism" that I'd bet my life on.
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
This is a WONDERFUL description of a desirable human behavior. A very "smart" one.
Rob Dawg wrote:
Rob, Yagij,
I forgot MY /snark tag
'...too smart by half.'
Funny! LOL
Rand is quaint, self entitled, self interested tripe.
DOW 10,ooo ? Where are the balloons?
Hardly knew ya.
Yancey Ward wrote:
No veto threat, but HUD secretary was "wary" of extension: HUD wary of extending home buyer tax credit
dryfly wrote:
The proof of the pudding is in the eating; I will never watch that show, or any other reality show for that matter; it only encourages the networks to make more of them-
Nanoo-Nanoo wrote:
I think THIS is what pushed it over the top. When absolute fear of the deity became REALLY absolute, all hell-broke-loose (so to speak).
Disclaimer: I'm a full-atheist.
Apollo Shares Plunge as SEC Starts Accounting Inquiry (Update4) - Bloomberg.com
"Apollo runs the University of Phoenix, the nation’s largest private university with 443,000 students, most of whom take classes via the Internet. Federal student aid accounted for about 86 percent of company revenue in fiscal 2009, Apollo said yesterday in a filing. That’s up from 82 percent in fiscal 2008 and 48 percent in fiscal 2001"
Mildly shocking that federal student aid is such a high percentage of revenue.
Cinco-X wrote:
Don't you mean you rorgot? Besides, no one messes with the Dawg!
Ugh, stop the madness.
Rand was an academic (sort of). I loved reading that she wanted to learn algebra but couldn't master it. So if thats any indication of her ability to think logically and deduce, well, I'll leave you to your own conclusions. She was a wannabe academic, wannbe lots of things. Like most people of her ilk; she took kernels of truth and twisted them into something else.
Rand gave narcissists the all clear to be narcissists and not suffer any consequences because as narcissists they are entitled to be narcissists. LOL!
[ Maria B. dejectedly rolls the nightstand cowboy back into the closet]
Juvenal Delinquent wrote:
Only the people that don't know it is. Basically.
novel as fiction
It wouldn't be the first novel taken as gospel.
threetorches,
The 'capitalists' need funding so they 'need' the financiers presumably...Rand maybe missed that connection.
rosethorn wrote:
Who can afford to pay for private institution education out of pocket? Heck, who can pay for all of public institution education out of pocket? There are only so many work studies and scholarships to go around nowadays and enrollment is only going up.
Pwnzi wrote:
And, creating a society where you don't have to hide WHILE you loot the entire society is a REALLY amazing accomplishment. Stupid people don't do this kinda stuff. But smart (in total) people can.
yagij wrote:
Unfortunately, it is all of the govt. programs that have helped drive that cost out of sight. If you put all of that cash out there for the taking, someone's going to find a way to get it, and if they don't use it all up, then there'll be less available next year-
poic wrote:
Rolls? Like on wheels? What sized engine does it have?
rosethorn wrote:
Nope. More front loading. My zombie is having a record student-lending year. And not ONLY Federal subsidized loans. All student loans.
Figured out why I like watching CNBC with the volume turned down: The Dirty Dozen: The 12 Hottest Female Anchors on Business Television - BroBible - Every Bro Has a Story
Today when office workers have de facto supercomputers on their desks (compared to those room fillers in 1985), human jobs are starting to disappear faster and faster. Almost everything are done by efficient machines and in huge quantities, unimaginable in the 19th century.
So either we will have a New New Deal, this time sharing the "fruits" made by robots some fair way to masses of "Unworkers" or we will eventually have The Great Collapse because of huge inequality differences.
I think the Dow Cornings Index is heavily inflated.
noob goldberg wrote:
Rolls, like a long cylindrical object. I've heard that Maria likes the "Angry Anaconda" (aka the Tommy Lee Special), and that's about 3.5 HP
and after you or the parents are done financing (and please-we must have that advanced degree otherwise-no living wage for you)-you will find yourself in a shaky job market and little chance to actually find a profit out of working your tail off to get educated. Its one of the worst examples of inflation in the nation. Cinco-I don't agree with you on this one. Look the "CEO" salaries of the so called higher education institutions get...and the 'perks'.
Cinco-X wrote:
NaRM has stated (as below) that student loans is one of the last lines of funds that hasn't been affected in the downturn. They are funneling and securitizing student loans like MBS back in 2005, and for whatever reason, they are still inflating that
. The gov't is a good reason that the Higher Ed 
is what it is, and being one of the last members standing of the 30+ yr credit, its pop will be awe-inspiring.
.
FD: I have a special bottle of wine to pop once one of my nearby private universities closes it doors for good.
.
Nanoo-Nanoo wrote:
See my FD above. The Higher Ed.
is a problem for most parties involved. It will pop, and I cannot imagine the extent of the 
once it does pop. People may start shunning higher educational degrees if the people before them get burned too badly by them... or not. 
noob,
I don't think the really super-rich wear lab coats but maybe they wear NY and Paris 'designer' stuff...or maybe they wear nothing at all in private...
must.stay.above.9800
wheeeez huff puff
University of Phoenix...
And these are not cheap units for what you get!
Neighbor is a math instructor part time for U of Phoenix. She teaches what amounts to high school algebra.
Nanoo-Nanoo wrote:
And only the religions can tackle this one too. Greed and narcissism (hmm, that's an "ism" too) are not nearly as bad as fornicatin'-harlots and the wild-male-5th-appendages.
Cinco-X wrote:
I just figured it was a floor-mounted model, with at least 10HP and mag wheels.
NOTaREALmerican (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Wed, 10/28/2009 - 2:02 pm
I think it "could work" IF the "adverse selections" - which you pointed out - WEREN'T the normal selections for the "smartest amoral scumbag" humans. So, altruism as an explanation of past human behavior (in total) and as a predictor for future human behavior (in total) wouldn't be an "ism" that I'd bet my life on.
Nope. It's a dominated strategy, but not always and often not by that much. So it's a bit of unpredictability in the decision matrix, since it would of course be "stupid" to pick a losing strategy on purpose. Is that useful? I don't know. Maybe precognition or intuition will end up being the answer. We'll see, I guess.
All I have to say to that 'merican is Viva Viagra.
I can't believe we are having a Rand debate ... I guess some of us didn't get enough in our wild and wooly undergrad days ... ok, here goes:
Yes, the inventors and producers need the financiers to get product developed, but when the financiers go from facilitators to power-brokers, and sieze control of not just the engineering but also the government and social constructs, things get out of whack. Criminal types are able to take control of existing structures, and pervert them for short-term personal profit at the general expense of society, while receiving protection from government-types who are on the take.
Rand deals explicitly with this dynamic. She did not seem to be on the side of the perverted criminal banksters, back when I read the book.
And yes, Atlas Shrugged makes a heck of a doorstop. We used an old copy to prop up an ancient color tv for like, a whole semester in the 80s.
Unfortunately, it is all of the govt. programs that have helped drive that cost out of sight. If you put all of that cash out there for the taking, someone's going to find a way to get it, and if they don't use it all up, then there'll be less available next year-
Motorized scooters, anyone?
But like the spawn of billionaires, most of the non-hiding uber-wealthy ride on the coat-tails of the the really smart few. Just need to get hitched up to the 'right' wagon.
Nanoo-Nanoo wrote:
With no male birth control in sight! Muhahahahahahahahahahaha!
Tarzan wrote:
I can't possibly imagine that I am any more productive than my counterparts 20 years ago. The only way in which this is not true is in my ability to seek out information. When it comes to synthesis, analysis, and composition, however, my predecessors were almost certainly faster, in no small part due to fewer distractions.
"The End Of History"
"DOW 36,000"
"The Art of the Deal"
The Laffer Curve, supply-side trickle-down...
A few kernels, mostly wannabe kernels.
That was my initial reaction. In state tuition at state schools can be a lot less, or at least that used to be the case.
threetorches wrote:
No, i don't recall that either. What I also don't recall is how she would keep the "perverted criminal banksters" OUT of her book.
A few kernels, mostly wannabe kernels.
plus a couple of nihlist beans
NOTaREALmerican wrote:
You Win.
NaRm,
We don't really know who the really big big investors are. They aren't on Fortune 500 lists. Who are the big 'investors' in our central banks or any of the central banks. You can't invest there. Ya know.
better to make an exception to the welfare rules for that- rather than perpetuate the myth that all these folks collecting extended unemployment benefits are not getting welfare. BTW I don't object to these people being helped. It is just that I am offended by the mind sight "government helping me is my entitlement - government helping somebody else is socialist".
yagij, give us a clue- what town are you in?
Oh forgive me everyone: yagij thats when the man really has you down.
In all seriousness, how is it that Medicaid recipients get Viagra paid for and women can't get birth control pills paid for?
No-Skin Market Call For the day:
I think it's gonna blow out on the downside when the market opens at 3:45.
Or the Global central banks? Who invests there?
nova wrote:
Of uniform, desirable colour, I assume?
Pwnzi wrote:
No. Creating a society where they let you loot the entire society in hopes that they can loot it after you and praise you for your looting is a REALLY amazing accomplishment.
NOTaREALmerican wrote:
Explains a lot of your attitude Chicago neighborhoods can be very cliquish/clanish, but the Marquette Pk 'hood has been decimated by it. There's good reason Nazis chose to march in that park in the mid-80's.
dryfly wrote:
The smartest guys in the rooom....
merchants of fear wrote:
I know, if I were a smart amoral scumbag, that's exactly how I'd design it too. Why should they let losers like ME invest in the winning bet?
merchants of fear wrote:
Hu.
Uncle Ar wrote:
University-wise? I'm in the SE part of the US. Won't get more specific because I keep hearing many smaller private universities (Think NAIA types) seem to keep fitting the mold.
See, that's just it ... the banksters are not "investing" anymore. They are just taking whatever they want.
Look at GMAC. Rational investors shunned it, but it is getting another few billion every few months, now.
Good work if you can get it.
Nanoo-Nanoo wrote:
A woman can take precautions to avoid unwanted pregnancies and still have sex without BCs. Men on the other hand need sex and can't be denied. That is how fights get started.
[Maria B. opens closet again and angrily piles her old Chanel tops on top of nightstand cowboy and throws Dow 10K hat to the ground in disgust]
Charles Kiting wrote:
Yeah. for sure. So, you must be from those-parts too, if you know of Marquette Pk.
No mention of Margaret Brennan. List is a complete failure.
University-wise?
Do you coach womens field hockey? That would be awesome, and I would respect your commitment
yagij (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Wed, 10/28/2009 - 2:19 pm
No. Creating a society where they let you loot the entire society in hopes that they can loot it after you and praise you for your looting is a REALLY amazing accomplishment.
And what of a society where future looters will pay large amounts of money and compete with fellow future looters in order to study how the looters successfully looted a society in the hopes that they themselves can pull off an even bigger heist?
Printing money, charging interest and fees, and being independent(unregulated or supervised) is the way to go.
Carbon credit trading.
ResistanceIsFeudal wrote:
HA! Yeah, what's AFTER the Looting Bowl post-game show (brought to you by Budweiser) isn't known. The looters probably didn't even dream they'd get as far as they've already gotten, so quickly.
Los Angeles leads list of job losers
Los Angeles leads list of job losers - Washington Business Journal:
Looks like the Market opened early today.
We are paying economic stimulus grants?
By Henry Goldman
Oct. 28 (Bloomberg) -- New York Lieutenant Governor Richard Ravitch predicted states across the U.S. would face deficits totaling as much as $500 billion in 2011 after the federal government stops paying them economic stimulus grants.
Ravitch, 76, a real estate developer and former chairman of New York’s Metropolitan Transportation Authority, said the looming nationwide fiscal crisis would first become apparent as states’ credit ratings falter, making it more expensive to borrow money.
ResistanceIsFeudal wrote:
I think we should call that society "America".
Shouldn't Viagra only be for those on Medicare? I don't think we should worry too much about old geezers fighting. And as for birth control, I think mother nature takes care of that aspect before the ladies are on Medicare.
yagij: Liberty University?
I keep watching to see if CitiGroup falls below $4/share.
noob goldberg wrote:
They did, back in the '80s; it was called "Empire," about an absurd and evil corporation run by scoundrels and incompetents. Patrick MacNee was the CEO. The guy who played the evil military intelligence major on MASH was the head of corporate security. It lasted about a month -- some topics just aren't that funny week after week.
crazyv wrote:
All us folks collecting UEI paid IN to the insurance. Plus, idle hands do the Devils work, so it may be in the publics interest to pay the unemployed to keep looking for work, rather than look to other markets...
No doubt idealists that grab power enable chaos, but one is hard pressed to find a smaller set of idealists in the US than Libertarians. To blame them for enablement of anything is preposterous.
October 28 , 2009 Layoffs
US Airways - 1,000
Deutsche Bahn - 2,000
SciClone Pharmaceuticals - 17% Reduction in Workforce
American Airlines - 700
City of Tracy - 58 Layoffs Notices
Versace - 350
Citigroup - 75
General Electric in Hungary - 2,700
Update: Intermet - 192
City of Cheboygan - 2 Officers
Grand Rapids Michigan - Significant Layoffs Coming
Applied Industries - 14
Gloucestershire County Council ( International ) - up to 500
Dutchess County - 70
Carbondale - 5
Seattle Department of Planning & Development - Layoffs Coming Soon
Maine University / Colleges - 100+ Layoffs?
Oklahoma City - Layoffs Very Possible
More Magazine Layoffs Coming
Arthur J. Gallagher - up to 400 Layoffs
British Petroleum - 600
Alabama Schools Expect Job Cuts Next Year
Teen Vogue - 6
Dartmouth College - Possible Job Cuts
Continental AG Newport News - 20
Ottawa County - 7+
Uncle Ar wrote:
I used to have a Liberty University laundry bag. I have no idea how I acquired it, or even what it represented until I heard it referenced on the Internet somewhere.
It was a good laundry bag.
Pwnzi, Yes to Paraquay. How never seen it discussed just alluted to as in your question. Must be some bigggggg secret.
ResistanceIsFeudal wrote:
Yeah, I have read that. Perhaps, in the great DNA game show, the altruistic DNA will win the game - in the end (and the meek do inherit the earth). But, moment to moment, I want to live like the smart amoral scumbags and get all the best females. WHERE IS MY BAILOUT!!!!
Its not Uncle AR, Medicaid recipients get it. Now if it was prescribed for the reasons it should be, I'd not yell; but we all know it is grossly over prescribed.
We will know the cities are out of money when the trash isn't picked up.
Maybe they will just pick it up every 2 weeks, so we have a clue.
noob goldberg (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Wed, 10/28/2009 - 2:28 pm
ResistanceIsFeudal wrote:
And what of a society where future looters will pay large amounts of money and compete with fellow future looters in order to study how the looters successfully looted a society in the hopes that they themselves can pull off an even bigger heist?
I think we should call that society "America".
I was thinking top-tier business schools, but that works, too.
Bob Dobbs wrote:
Thanks! You've convinced me to turn it into a 90 minute movie. That should be just long enough to not lose the novelty.
Nanoo-Nanoo wrote:
I love the monetization of pollution. It is a hysterically funny symbol of extreme government capture. I cannot believe that we are so incomprehensibly stupid that we cannot see corporations are trying capture the right to POLLUTE (?!). They want to institutionalize and securitize and trade their pollution. I'm sure it will go forward as advertised. Why not? Who's going to stop it? There are no checks and balances any longer.
"No doubt idealists that grab power enable chaos"
Idealists NEVER grab power. If you look at Russia, Hungary, Cuba, China and others the idealists always ended up in jail or dead soon after the revolution succeeded. Idealists are a threat to any system.
Apparently carrying such a bag gets you a good gig in the US Justice Dept.
noob goldberg wrote:
Have you not seen this:
It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia Official Website | Only on FX
Did my civic duty and called senators webb and warner to voice my NO on house credit.
Just talked to a friend who owns a decent sized HVAC business in NOVA. Things are so busy that ......he's got a crew painting his house.
noob goldberg wrote:
Try not to overlap "Office Space" too much.
University of Phoenix only got a leg up when Intel greenlighted paying for masters degree courses for employees. Unfortunately a couple of years back Intel realized that these courses were one giant
that they pulled the plug. Hence the rise of financial aid %.
3 torches,
But A. Rand needed to realize that 'financiers' need to be regulated or they will become predatory...prevention is worth a pound of no regulation 'cure'...
Good thread...anything solved?
I agree. It's clear that Phoenix has been helping itself to a sizable share of the student loan $. I personally never understood the appeal of paying $40K a year for liberal arts college that no one from more than 50 miles away ever heard of.
merchants of fear wrote:
No. which makes the thread even better.
Blackhalo wrote:
I have not. But now I will.
I honestly haven't seen it in Canadian TV listings, but it might be on a specialty channel I don't usually watch.
NOTaREALmerican wrote:
Yep, grew up about 10 miles southeast of there but played a lot of ball in Marquette Pk. The South Side has certain charms that one can only appreciate after moving away, but the seemingly ingrained willful ignorance is not one of them; a seemingly opposite but no-less-harmful willful ignorance exists in academia - I find it useful to have both at arms length but there's no way I could live in the thick of either anymore.
Here is the root of the problem:
Merchants,
Rand was smart enough to understand that financiers' corruption was political corruption. Seriously, do you really think an institution like the Federal Reserve, or any other central bank on the planet, has broken loose from political control in this crisis? Every single one of them is a check kiting operation between bankers and the treasuries of their countries- every single one. And now, we have all the politicians, promising, cross their hearts, that they will root out the corruption once and for all. Fools believe these promises.