Meredith Whitney is a hottie.

volker the viking wrote:

Meredith Whitney is a hottie.

Yes. Yes she is.

CalculatedRisk wrote:

I know ... too many posts. I'll take a break.

Never too many posts. Did you see how that last thread devolved? If anything, send 'em out quicker

Rob Dawg wrote:

In an effort to improve their tranished public image the banker rats are now HAMPsters.

Thread over. Time for a , CR.

totally on-topic, someone posted this last thread.

Get a clue people, just stop paying your mortgage and you get the same benefits, without additional debt, and NO payments, not even $25 a month.

Focus growing on helping jobless homeowners Capitol Report - MarketWatch

"WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) - Using taxpayer funds to keep out-of-work homeowners in their homes until they find another job is an option being looked at by some officials in the Obama administration, according to people familiar with government financial rescue programs.

At issue is an administration program that is employing $50 billion in taxpayer funds from the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program to help lenders modify mortgages for troubled homeowners"

HAMP = Enzyte...Extend and Pretend.

SNAFU wrote:

Is that on the high side?

An increasing gloominess...

Ghost,

I left you a response on the last thread.

Now John Gerspach has the face of Smilin' Bob. Eewww.

noob goldberg wrote:

High # of users, low # of guests. We're starting to suck them into the commentariat, it seems.

I see many new names and a couple of old ones who haven't been around much lately.

Citi sure used allot of words to say "We don't know and if we did we aren't telling."

noob goldberg wrote:

Does anyone see which page their breakdown of Tier 1, 2, and 3 is? They reference Tier 1 at 12.7%, but I can't seem to find the other two ratios.

Okay, I don't see other ratios referred to, but slide 22 has a reference to Key Capital Metrics.

Maybe someone can explain to me how Q2-09 and Q3-09 Tier 1 capital and total capital are identical even with the changes we've seen in the markets over the past four months.

many years ago I lived across from a polling place.

Had a yard sign saying

Cthulhu
Why Vote For The
Lesser Evil

Love the looks from people walking down the street to go vote.

josap wrote:

Citi sure used allot of words to say "We don't know and if we did we aren't telling.

Actually it was more like: "You don't know and we're not telling you." They could have done analyses of failure rates during the trial period, etc., to make (admittedly rough) estimates. They didn't - and they didn't give us numbers to estimate them either. I find this extremely telling.

"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."

[best comment on the current political system ever]

I dunno but Gournet Magazine is toast, errr, toast crums for the pidgeons.

Idiots! Foreclosures started climbing in 2007 then Lehman crashed and the swindle began to unravel. Fix the foreclosures was chanted through the streets. Enter TARP 2008 which shifty Paulson chose to direct to the Bernanke Bail Buddy fund. Then HAMP, HARP, HAFA no HOPE and here we are talking about maaaaybe some mod results won't be known till 2010. Start the free homes for all program now and lets get this crash over. With my free car, house, money and healthcare I'd like a boat ramp for my new Obama boat.

digalert wrote:

Then HAMP, HARP, HAFA no HOPE and here we are talking about maaaaybe some mod results won't be known till 2010.

I can't believe they don't have even a clue as to how these mods are performing.

I think it more likely that they're hoping the story will be happier in 2010. But that's just me.

"HAMP also reduces net credit losses as loans in the trial period do not get charged off at 180 days past-due as long as they have made at least one payment."

That part should be in bold.

badger wrote:

I'm talking about their experience with mods and HAMP in particular.

This is where Tanta would be a good help, because I don't understand the technicalities preventing an understanding of how mods are performing. Why is it so hard to get this data?

CNBC mentions CR, congratulations!

Seriously Folks the Housing Bubble Is Back: Tech Ticker, Yahoo! Finance

Seriously Folks, the Housing Bubble Is Back
Posted Oct 15, 2009 09:56am EDT by Joe Weisenthal in Investing, Recession, Housing
Related: dia, spy, hd, len, kbh

From The Business Insider, Oct. 15, 2009:

We mentioned this a week ago, though this story has been kind of flying under the radar: The housing bubble is back.

No, home prices aren't (yet) at overinflated levels again, but the housing market is seeing a return of enthusiasm, mania, and speculation, the likes of which we haven't seen in a long time.

Now CNBC's Diana Olick (via Calculated Risk) is talking about it. Here's an email a realtor sent to a friend of hers.

The foreclosure capital of America, Vegas home prices are down more than 50 percent from their peak in 2006. The median price of a home there is $138,000, but, interestingly, the inventory is down to a less than 3-month supply. Compare that to the national inventory, now at an 8.5 month supply. Despite the low supply, prices are not recovering quickly because the sales are all by banks, looking to unload properties quickly.

But back to Katie. Her Realtor, who is also an old friend, emailed Katie the following warnings before her arrival on the Vegas strip:

- This market is crazy and many things are just not going to make any sense.
- I can guarantee you 99.99% of the listings emailed to you will no longer be available by the time you get here.
- Properties are selling in the blink of an eye.
- Properties are getting multiple offers within a few days of being on the market, the most offers I’ve heard a house had recently was 44 offers (I know, crazy).
- This market is crazy and many things are just not going to make any sense.
- 40% of all transactions are cash purchases, which makes it harder for the buyers who are financing to get their offers accepted.
- We have 1/2 the inventory we had a year ago and 4 times as many buyers as we did a year ago.
- Chances are we will have to submit several offers to have the chance of getting 1 accepted.
- This market is crazy and many things are just not going to make any sense.
- You will probably leave not knowing if you have a house or not because banks take 2 to 3 weeks to respond, because this market is crazy… you know the rest.

Is this just realtor puffery? Possible. But this fits with other anecdotal evidence people are seeing. Foreclosureville markets are going crazy again.

More coverage from The Business Insider:

* Real estate speculation is getting scary popular again
* CondoVultures: Fate of S. Florida housing market all depends on federal govt

Rotary wing aircraft on the horizon

Prepare for a drop.

Maybe it's one payment in order to keep the bank from having to start booking losses.

I'm not in banking, but have a broad stats background. I find it completely feasible that with very little data, broad lessons aren't being learned. New programs have all sorts of problems like just getting the programming done; some regions getting access and training before others; etc.

josap wrote:

I don't think they know, because they could care less if the mods work.
The Fed forced them to do the mods, they don't like being told what to do.
And when the mods reforclose they can say, Hoocoodanode?

While they're mod'img these loans, they don't have to recognize their losses, and they can also boost their bonuses for doing such a bang up job-

ghost,
As a bit of a counterpoint to your dollar bearishness, what do you think of this: FT.com / Capital Markets - European nations opt for dollar issues ?

“European governments are having to raise money in dollars because of difficulties in attracting investors in their domestic markets due to the intense competition for funds. Croatia joined the growing trend of issuing in dollars on Wednesday when it announced plans to issue its first bond in the US currency, with Barclays Capital, Citigroup and JPMorgan arranging the deal. It is expected to raise $500m. Lithuania issued its first dollar bond last week, raising $1.5bn in five-year paper. The Poles have raised money in dollars, Swiss-francs and euros this year.

Germany, Italy, Austria, Belgium, Portugal and Spain have also issued debt in dollars in recent months, according to Dealogic.”

That looks like pretty much the EU to me. Should support the $ later on. Not good for the eurozone when Germany (!) borrows in dollars.

badger wrote:

New programs have all sorts of problems like just getting the programming done; some regions getting access and training before others; etc.

scone wrote:

Booking losses would mean the banks are visibly insolvent, which means more Fed reserve pump, which is awkward. No data, no visible losses, no pump, and happy markets all around.

So either the program is so new that they can't access data and are flying completely blind, or they have the data but don't want to release it because it would render them insolvent.

I'm happy we're in good hands.

Isn't borrowing in Dollars to do Euro buisness tantamount to shorting the dollar?

some investor guy wrote:

"HAMP also reduces net credit losses as loans in the trial period do not get charged off at 180 days past-due as long as they have made at least one payment."

That part should be in bold.

Russia ready to drop dollar in energy trade with China, Putin says

Russia ready to drop dollar in energy trade with China, Putin says | Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee

EHP - What surprises me the most is how little of the "stimulus" money has actually gone to anything that is in any way indicative of forward motion... very little growith, job creation, or payback, much less simple return on investment. Money down a hole.

Interestingly this 'money down a hole' does slosh around, so it will have a temporary effect. I'm in a company that does lots of business with public utilities and we are seeing a definite upswing and inquiries due to energy projects on the horizon as stimulus money gets disbursed. We know it's temporary, though, and are preparing accordingly.

I want a tax MOD so I can party with no responsibility!

It seems so...that piece I linked mentioned a "basis trade" where the issuer turns around and sells the dollar proceeds to get euros that they can use. Seems to me that this says euro domestic capital is all locked up in stabilizing the system so the govts borrow from US IB's who have the funds due to Bernanke and Co.

It's utterly amazing that they call this a recovery, and yet we've got record unemployment, record foreclosures, record bailouts, record stimulii, record QE, and all still rising. Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall, HD had a great fall, and all the king's horses and all the king's men still have not been able to put
HD together again

It's utterly amazing that they call this a recovery, and yet we've got record unemployment, record foreclosures, record bailouts, record stimulii, record QE, and all still rising.

It's just a mental recession.

noob goldberg (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Thu, 10/15/2009 - 2:26 pm

I think there are quite a few of us who could think of more productive ways for the government to spend (or not spend) a trillion dollars in dealing with this crisis. Very large social infrastructure projects, lofty research goals, etc etc have all been batted around here at various times. Most anything is better than throwing good money after bad in trying to support asset prices.

Most of it isn't even that noble. It's band-aids to allow states to avoid layoffs and cutbacks, and other sorts of aid that has little to nothing to do with economic stimulus. A lot of the money earmarked for energy, infrastructure etc. has yet to hit with much force. Saving unnecessary public jobs and holding up inflated public salaries for jobs that are no longer needed is even less useful than one-shot hits for consumption items since it's a recurring cost (and a recurring deficit).

ResistanceIsFeudal,
That's the thing about financial crisis spending. The worse it is, the more effective it can be. Ultimately it's free money to someone, and that takes some pressure off at that point (eg could you imagine if States had to cut their workforce by 40%, double taxes, liquidate property and accounts?)
The most important thing is that the spending doesn't cut into the existing market share of someone else that contributes to GDP.

EvilHenryPaulson wrote:

The most important thing is that the spending doesn't cut into the existing market share of someone else that contributes to GDP.

What about a government takeover of an entire facet of the economy...like credit provision?

EvilHenryPaulson (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Thu, 10/15/2009 - 2:32 pm

ResistanceIsFeudal,
That's the thing about financial crisis spending. The worse it is, the more effective it can be. Ultimately it's free money to someone, and that takes some pressure off at that point (eg could you imagine if States had to cut their workforce by 40%, double taxes, liquidate property and accounts?)
The most important thing is that the spending doesn't cut into the existing market share of someone else that contributes to GDP.

I've read my Keynes, and can't disagree even though I hate the idea in principle. Hopefully those states bought enough time to lessen the impact but there MUST BE an impact. Otherwise they go on life-support as a recurring cost to all taxpayers. We hope they are preparing for the reality instead of using their resources and pull to coax another fix out of Uncle Sugar. Unfortunately that's exactly what happens...

I don't think Keynes applies to this situation at all. The only time Keynes would apply is if the government is arbitraging down a false expectation in the future of the economy, and it should apply as much to downturns as it does upturns. You could extend that to include choosing to absorb losses over a longer timeframe, but by that point you're choosing favourites within the economy and probably going to screw things up for a later date instead of resolving the problem up front

EvilHenryPaulson wrote:

You know how many billions in fees have been made issuing government guaranteed credit, or buying securities on behalf of the government this year?

No, but I had imagined it was a huge amount. I'm not arguing that government's foray into backstopping credit has hurt the banks; I'm more concerned that it's hurt the economy, especially in the long term.

There's a 'disconnect' between reality and the propaganda soon to be settled by the rush out of the carnival in babylon.

It's like Weekened at Bernie's. He's already dead, what's the worst that could happen?

They could make a sequel.

hahahahaha - ouch

EvilHenryPaulson (profile) wrote on Thu, 10/15/2009 - 2:42 pm

I don't think Keynes applies to this situation at all. The only time Keynes would apply is if the government is arbitraging down a false expectation in the future of the economy, and it should apply as much to downturns as it does upturns. You could extend that to include choosing to absorb losses over a longer timeframe, but by that point you're choosing favourites within the economy and probably going to screw things up for a later date instead of resolving the problem up front

I mentioned Keynes mostly just to indicate I wasn't an "Austrian fundamentalist" and was acquainted with the concept and theoretical justifications for deficit spending. My opinion would be that using the money (borrowed from the future, effectively) to mitigate and smooth anticipated impacts was a reasonable use of stimulus, even if it meant picking favorites/selection bias.

CR: as a sentiment investor, thought you might want to see this:

Pension Funds Learn to Say, "Sell!"

Noob, how can you call it fixed when it's still broken? It's probably hard to see the cracks when you're watchin from canada, but no worry, it's comin your way.

come on, HAL..... you can see the high of the day from here!

Define fixed.

"A shift towards more efficiency in the economy is best left to a time when there isn't slack in the economy "

Hmm. I would think that when the economy is in "slack" mode would be the ideal time to reorganize. Far easer to kill off the marginal players when the do not have the wherewithal to fight back. Shame O' did not take advantage to finish off the TBTF while they had their hand out.,

HAL is 'dying' and singing 'Daisy'...

some investor guy wrote:

"HAMP also reduces net credit losses as loans in the trial period do not get charged off at 180 days past-due as long as they have made at least one payment."

Can anyone explain the accounting treatment of HAMPed loans? Does this statement imply that no impairment charge at all has been taken on loans in the trial period as long as at least one payment has been made, or in other words that these loans appear on the books as if they were current? Or are they saying that they don't take the full charge-off they would ordinarily take on a 180-day past due loan, but they've taken some sort of charge?

'Fixed' means the 'fix' is in...and the 'Sting' is here.

We all live in the HAMPtons.

Rob Dawg,
There's no single optimal equilibrium for government, or the structure of the economy. Anything I would have to say would be dependent on time and place (including recent history and nearest neighbours).

.....this reminds me of feeding my chickens.......Me carrying the stainless bucket is the first sign they see - the smarter hens start walking my way. Then they hear the familiar, "Heeeere....Chick, chick, chick, chick, chick" - and they ALL start running to me. I'll walk out to where I want them fed, them all happily clucking, following me like a pied piper. I'll throw a handful of grain in one direction, they'll cluck and scurry to the food, I'll throw some more feed 10-15 feet from the first, and half of them will follow the new food, clucking loudly. I repeat this over and over until my day's bucket is empty and they're all busily clucking over their new food............A lot of times I feel like I'm President Obama............How many of you guys feel like the chicken?

Hayek v. Keynes Deathmatch Round 12.1 - RD

More like an unholy mating to create the evil spawn: USA 2.0.

Rob Dawg,
They're both dead, and have too many people speaking for them.
They each have strong and weak points in their work. But most importantly, they are dead. This is our mess.

Low market interest rates should continue to induce savers to diversify into riskier assets... - Fed Vice Chairman Donald Kohn, October 13, 2009

Oil is at $77.50/bbl. Up > 100% from the year's lows.

Mission Accomplished! Pain City, here we come.

When you spell dubya, don't forget there's a big, wide upside down little "v" in the middle.

did teh GOOG beat the street?

Like a red-haired stepchild.

We thought Marx was dead too.

What is the range of everyone's general economic expectations?
Mine goes from
Best: up to 2 year reprieve in what's referred to as a W shaped recovery, aka the early 1980s
Middle: Government spending fades before there is a self-sustaining bubble
Worst: There is no deceleration in USD declines and upward pressure on US treasury yields, all kinds of rates spike, fallout in overseas banks, which become countries failing

With a determined Central Bank citizens have no rights.

merchants of fear wrote:

We thought Marx was dead too.

What do you have against Marx and/or his Zombie?

EvilHenryPaulson wrote:

What is the range of everyone's general economic expectations?

Actually, mine is very similar to yours, with my current expectation somewhere between the best and middle-case scenario. But I'm watching the USD pretty close these days, waiting for something to spark a short squeeze; otherwise, it's option 3 all the way.

Worst scenario: A whole generation is ripped off 'from' their life 'savings' and pauperized into bankrupted debt peons...

merchants of fear
Why have you been afraid to read Das Kapital? Being afraid of a book is a really silly thing

noob,
Yeah we still have cheap bicycles made in China...

Black Star Ranch (profile) wrote on Thu, 10/15/2009 - 3:00 pm

I'll throw a handful of grain in one direction, they'll cluck and scurry to the food, I'll throw some more feed 10-15 feet from the first, and half of them will follow the new food, clucking loudly. I repeat this over and over until my day's bucket is empty and they're all busily clucking over their new food............

That's exactly what they're trying to turn us into. It's working too. Now all you need to do is start taking bets on what the chickens will do when you throw food. Obviously refusing the free lunch would be a stupid choice.

just did an apple web store price check. Usually they have been pretty good at re-aligning their prices because they're vertically integrated.
The CAD prices relative to USD prices are anywhere from 11% to 22% higher, with 16% higher the most common. The exchange rate is only 3% higher for now.

noob goldberg wrote:

Once that door is opened, it'll be awful hard to close again with 50 hands sticking through it.

True. But the Feds are already funding several state unemployment funds that are under water.

Rob Dawg wrote:

Hayek v. Keynes Deathmatch Round 12.1 trillion with $643 trillion in side bets riding on the outcome.

Pretty soon we'll be talking about some "real" money-

merchants of fear wrote:

We thought Marx was dead too.

Who is 'WE'?

EvilHenryPaulson wrote:

a limited education, a product of...

...a willingness to hold strong opinions on books and authors one hasn't read.

Best case scenario:
Protectionsm kills globalization and central banking fractional reserve processes while localism takes off killing the predatory and exploitative 'global' corporations and 'financialization scams'...

Yalt wrote:

...a willingness to hold strong opinions on books and authors one hasn't read.

I feel that way about Danielle Steele. But I refuse to waste the necessary Sunday afternoon to determine if my feeling is rational.

The 'Stan .... wasn't that a long, apocalyptic Stephen King novel?

Goldman Strikes Gold Again
by Nomi Prins
This morning Goldman Sachs posted near-record trading profits and bonuses. But behind the giddy numbers, Nomi Prins argues, are signs that the bank hasn't learned any lessons from the downturn.

WASHINGTON -- It's been over a year since Congress passed the $700 billion bank bailout and the Federal Reserve started creating new money--a trillion new dollars and counting--out of thin air to prop up the U.S. economy. In addition, the Fed dropped interest rates to zero. In normal times, this flood of free money would have been wildly inflationary. But in that same year, prices have fallen 1.3%.

Cinco-X wrote:

...signs that the bank hasn't learned any lessons from the downturn.

I just choked on my coffee!

What a load of crap. They've learned plenty: like the lesson on how they now can make even larger bets because they're leveraging the creditworthiness of the entire United States of America.

merchants of fear wrote:

Best case scenario:
Protectionsm kills globalization

Oddly, protectionism may actually save it; China's propping up of the USD for the last 10 years has distorted things badly, and is about to kill the largest "free" consumer market in the world. Bringing the world back to reality will ultimately be a good thing-

I was gonna open a savings account today at Mellon.
The interest rate was 1/4% on a 3 month CD!! I said, make it a checking account.

yagij wrote:

Just like the Civil War wasn't really about slavery, this new war will have causes and "causes".

Wow. I can't believe your crystal ball is even darker than mine.

noob goldberg wrote:

What a load of crap. They've learned plenty: like the lesson on how they now can make even larger bets because they're leveraging the creditworthiness of the entire United States of America.

Exactly! They've learned the WRONG lessons. BTW, that was written by Ms. Prins, not me-

Cinco-X wrote:

Exactly! They've learned the WRONG lessons. BTW, that was written by Ms. Prins, not me-

I know. You and I will continue to rant in solidarity, brother.

Marx/Soviet Union.

Classic thought-terminating cliche.

Am I wrong, or does the editor's lead-in paragraph ("...But behind the giddy numbers, Nomi Prins argues, are signs that the bank hasn't learned any lessons from the downturn.") completely misrepresent her article? She outlines all the "treats" Goldman received to offset their suffering from last year's meltdown, then says:

But, there’s something ominous about the giddy trading figures, even besides the risk they represent. In terms of complex transactions, the more clients are convinced to add bells and whistles to their transactions, the more revenue is maximized for the bank. People get paid big bonuses for this ‘value-added’ service to clients, and the clients who didn’t get trashed last year, or even the ones that did, seem to have dipped back into exotic transaction land, bolstered by stock price euphoria and the bubble mentality of not wanting to miss anything—again. We’ve been here before. It’s amazing no lessons have been learned.

But, since they haven’t, and complexity is making its way back into the game, Goldman will continue to thrive.

She's pretty explicit about who she's accusing of failure to learn and it isn't Goldman:

...their stock price is likely to continue to rise—that is, until the government gets wise to the dangers of risk driven profitability. Since that wisdom wasn’t achieved from the experience of this crisis and bailout, until and unless the next leg of the crisis smacks Washington even harder in the head, Goldman will keep winning.

Jesus was far greater an enemy of private property than Marx.

noob goldberg wrote:

You and I will continue to rant in solidarity, brother.

Whew! I originally thought you said we be ranting in solitary, and I ran to the window and began looking for the 's

EHP,
I don't like(or try to avoid) mixing insults with argumentation the way you do which is a refelection on your debating 'style'.

Anyone notice the 5 terrorist attacks in Pakistan in the last day? Pakistan reels after terrorist blitz - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
alybaba, any tie-in to Kerry-Lugar?

Yalt wrote:

Am I wrong, or does the editor's lead-in paragraph ("...But behind the giddy numbers, Nomi Prins argues, are signs that the bank hasn't learned any lessons from the downturn.") completely misrepresent her article? She outlines all the "treats" Goldman received to offset their suffering from last year's meltdown.....

I think that is meant to mean that they haven't learned what she considers to be the right lessons. Learning the wrong lessons is the "moral hazard" mentioned so often in regards to the various bailouts. I suppose you are correct in that they HAVE "learned", but I think it's a technicality-

yagij wrote:

general weakening of our Federal system.

You say that like it's a bad thing; BTW, you've been reported to flag@whithouse.gov

The neo-Marxists obviously figured out Marxian theory was not 'properly' used or implemented in the totalitarian Soviet Union. Free market theories are distorted or ignored in the U.S. political/economy 'system'. Theories are bunk when some form of international organized crime takes over where ever it 'happens' or the 'economic theory' that preceded it.

You're crediting to Prins a sentence from the Daily Beast's front-page lead-in link to the article, which I seriously doubt was written by Prins herself.

The former Enron towers 1 & 2 are taken...

Cinco-X,
What were the 'Jesus' economic theories? Turn over money lenders tables?
For real?...'Jesus was far greater an enemy of private property that Marx'. Really?

Above to one currency too

energyecon wrote:

The U.S. Treasury Department criticized China for the “lack of flexibility” of the yuan and a buildup of foreign-exchange reserves while stopping short of branding the nation a manipulator of its currency.

yawns Next story. It isn't even a Pot-Kettle thang. More of a yawn thang.

the early/mid 80s Niners teams were revolutionary in terms of doing exactly that - scripting their opening dozen plays or so. That, and their then-unique approach to genuine strength conditioning led to dominance of the league for a decade. so maybe there's a better metaphor out there...

Free market theories are distorted or ignored in the U.S. political/economy 'system'.

Thank god Congress never completely abandoned common sense, or we'd probably have had a Marxist revolution by now. The free market model is operating off Somalia, in parts of Colombia, and Afghanistan

It's quite efficient, for the fittest of the fit.

YouTube - Burning Spear - The Fittest Of The Fittest

United States Treasury security - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From the above Wiki link:

Savings bonds were created to finance World War I. In 2002, the Treasury Department started to gut the savings bond program by lowering interest and closing its marketing offices, although the program was very well known previously.

It all makes sense now. You can't have a war against saving AND offer safe and dependable savings vehicles. No way. And here's the best part. We won the war by replacing savings bonds with new fangled Trojan Horses called a "structured investment vehicles".

HollywoodHack wrote:

That, and their then-unique approach to genuine strength conditioning led to dominance of the league for a decade. so maybe there's a better metaphor out there...

You'd still know how the game was going to end after the first 15 plays, though, no?

EHP,
Another questionable debate strategy is to attribute something that wasn't said or inferred...putting words in someone's mouth...
EHP- 'Marx...was so evil you never needed to know more...' Seriously, you think I 'said' that?

scone wrote:

It's just a defense. We're crying on the inside.

It's true. I'd cut my wrists if I wasn't laughing so damned hard all the time

noob,
I'm saying I never thought of Jesus as an economist or an enemy of private proprerty...maybe I missed something in my grammer school education(EHP theory).

Venezuelan Bonds Fall as PDVSA Debt Sale Sparks Supply Glut
By Daniel Cancel

Oct. 15 (Bloomberg) -- Venezuela’s benchmark bonds fell to a one-month low as the government prepared to follow up last week’s $5 billion bond sale with a $3 billion issue for its state-run oil company, creating a supply glut that outstrips investor demand.

The yield on Venezuela’s 9.25 percent dollar bonds maturing in 2027 climbed 35 basis points, or 0.35 percentage point, to 12.67 percent at 4:17 p.m. in New York, according to JPMorgan Chase & Co. The bond’s price sank 2 cents on the dollar to 76 cents after dropping 1.4 cents yesterday. Venezuela’s dollar bonds had lost 3 percent in October as of yesterday, the biggest decline among emerging-market countries tracked by JPMorgan.
Venezuelan Bonds Fall as PDVSA Debt Sale Sparks Supply Glut - Bloomberg.com

Consider the lilies of the field....

noob goldberg (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Thu, 10/15/2009 - 3:58 pm

It's true. I'd cut my wrists if I wasn't laughing so damned hard all the time

I am usually sobbing too hard to be able to cut my wrists. I'm just afraid I'd slip and do it wrong. One of these days, though...

yagij wrote:

The U.S. Treasury Department criticized China for the “lack of flexibility” of the yuan and a buildup of foreign-exchange reserves while stopping short of branding the nation a manipulator of its currency.

yawns Next story. It isn't even a Pot-Kettle thang. More of a yawn thang.

Actually, it's the WHOLE thing! Wanna trace problems back? Wanna blame Greenspan? Who enabled Greenspan's easy credit fiasco?

Call it, "Hoocadnode After Dark"

Not to change the subject or anything, but since it's GOOG reporting day: that investing-in-real-estate seminar ad on this page is an epic targeting failure.

Marx believed factory workers should have skin in the game, both because they deserved it and because it would enhance industrial output. He advocated workers owning the means of production, not the State. Bankers are workers if they add value.

hmmm...usury, what did the teacher say about that again?

energyecon wrote:

Venezuelan Bonds Fall as PDVSA Debt Sale Sparks Supply Glut

But that's because they have a socialist President and are printing too much money to prop up their failing economy unlike the United States who... oh... never mind.

"It's cutting your wrists. What would be the unexpected negative outcome (ie. how could you do it 'wrong')? "

Some don't know that it's down, not across.

Cinco-X wrote:

Actually, it's the WHOLE thing! Wanna trace problems back? Wanna blame Greenspan? Who enabled Greenspan's easy credit fiasco?

Yeah, and who's the dude that borrowed all that loot for the 600 ship navy?

merchants of fear wrote:

Obviously the 'free market' must be regulated for corruption...or maybe it's not so obvious?

Regrettably, the idea of a "free market" has been corrupted by both the left and the right. I view it much like a village common. You can use it freely, but if you abuse it, you end up in the stocks-

NOTaREALmerican,
+1

Why does the country still hate me and my president rob me, mommy?

The country has been drugged, and the President has been replaced by a clone, under the control of the evil wizards of Mordor. And I'm not really your mommy. Your mommy was a meth head and I get paid $2000 a month to put up with your shit, so STFU.

Nokia is at the event horizon.
Market share down to 35% from 41% one quarter ago. I think they had 60% market share not a few years ago

sm_landlord wrote:

Some don't know that it's down, not across.

Didn't your mother teach you that nursery rhyme? Something about "Down the street, not across the tracks, doh wah doh wah..."

What? Why are you all looking at me like that?

Well, off home people, enjoy the cornucopia of simultaneous debate topics going on in Hoocodanode this afternoon/evening.

Cinco-X wrote:

the idea of a "free market" has been corrupted by both the left and the right

I thought is was the Smart Amoral Scum-bags. Are they on the left OR right?

NOTaREALmerican (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Thu, 10/15/2009 - 4:09 pm

I thought is was the Smart Amoral Scum-bags. Are they on the left OR right?

Yes.

Cinco-X,
'end up in stocks' or the stockade. Medieval Stockade?

HollywoodHack wrote:

bears in the playoffs

There's bears about playoffs too? How does this investment strategy go?

Rob Dawg wrote:

That didn't work for me.

Good lord man, are you some sort of T-800?

EDIT: Okay now really going home...

merchants of fear wrote:

Not sure what(political economy) will work for sure but we have learned what doesn't work...over and over and over again!

Until the problem of the Smart Amoral Scum-bags is addressed AND the problem of the peasants not being allowed to participate in the screwing, nothing can change.

NOTaREALmerican wrote:

Yeah, and who's the dude that borrowed all that loot for the 600 ship navy?

Looks like a small price compared to today's BS. BTW, it's worth noting he didn't go out and buy 600 ships at list price. Many were pulled out of mothballs, and re-de-commissioned after his term was over. Finally, this has little to do with the effects of the dot.com boom/bust and the subsequent RE boom/bust. Which is what is pertinent here. Again, if you want ot go back far enough, there's always Johnson's Guns&Butter policy.

Maybe doomers shouldn't eat the

if the comes from anywhere near an a-bomb facility:

A government contractor at Hanford, in south-central Washington State, just spent a week mapping radioactive rabbit feces with detectors mounted on a helicopter flying 50 feet over the desert scrub. An onboard computer used GPS technology to record each location so workers could return later to scoop up the droppings for disposal as low-level radioactive waste.

radioactive poo detectable at 50 ft away doesn't sound like the right meal to me. it isn't safe to step in sh*t anymore.

NOTaREALmerican wrote:

Who makes the rules?

The village-

NOTaREALmerican wrote:

I thought is was the Smart Amoral Scum-bags. Are they on the left OR right?

Yes-

Today's high end phones are the standard phones in emerging markets within 3 years. So it will be tough to compete at the low end of the lowest end markets where you need mega-volume to make any profit. Do you see intel giving up on high end chips because they're not as profitable at the time of introduction? No because they can ride what becomes a commodity for the next 6 years all the way down the price points

NaRm,
Are the 'smart amoral scumbages' fleecing the 'born and bred dopes'?

Cinco-X wrote:

I thought is was the Smart Amoral Scum-bags. Are they on the left OR right?
Yes-

right, center and left. but it is not a bell-shaped curve. heavily skewed to the right, i'd bet.

the peasants did participate - hence the housing bubble and subsequent meltdown. similarly, today's equity and corporate bond juicing by the Fed is designed for strictly political purposes, i.e., to calm the nerves of Joe 401K (while enabling yet another round of backdated-options looting by execs, of course).

NOTaREALmerican wrote:

the problem of the peasants not being allowed to participate in the screwing, nothing can change.

Oh they participate, just not the way you'd like

In the episode, Jesus is stated to have visited the Temple in Jerusalem, Herod's Temple, at which the courtyard is described as being filled with livestock and the tables of the money changers, who changed the standard Greek and Roman money for Jewish and Tyrian money, which were the only coinage that could be used in Temple ceremonies. According to the Gospels, Jesus took offense to this extorting profit from the people to hear the word of God.
Jesus and the money changers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
.
Since we started with the money changers...

NOTaREALmerican (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Thu, 10/15/2009 - 4:21 pm

No, the nobility is fleecing the peasants. Like 10000 years of history show it will always be.

Exactly. And it is not unreasonable to suggest that "evolution" wants it this way.

ResistanceIsFeudal wrote:

Exactly. And it is not unreasonable to suggest that "evolution" wants it this way.

No, I wouldn't disagree. The small D democrats might not like this answer tho. The people who believe in human progress.

Edit; DA FOUNDIN' FODDERS?

No because they can ride what becomes a commodity for the next 6 years all the way down the price points ...

And at the same time, they have to continually re-create the high end, and hope the world buys it.That's tech in a nutshell-- it's always been that way. The difference between Intel and Apple is that Apple works hard to sell the world on the greatness of their new stuff. Intel wouldn't know good marketing if it crept up and slapped them in the face. And here's another clue. Intel still thinks it's a hardware company. I kid you not. The hardware engineering mentality refuses to die.

scone wrote:

Intel still thinks it's a hardware company. I kid you not. The hardware engineering mentality defused to die.

scone
In many ways, Intel is a hardware company. They could get more benefit out of it by working on other areas, but without the hardware to feed them those other areas just die on the vine. just my outsider's opinion, I know you're closer to the company than I

Marx though the history of 'class struggle' was important to know so we can learn from the Marxian approach.

badger, I expect you know Russia was not static in the years leading to 1917, nor were the years 1917-18 an experience anyone would have preferred to the preceding circumstances. I think the economic conditions - then as now - tell only a part of the story, and perhaps not the main part at that.

JimPortlandOR wrote:

heavily skewed to the right, i'd bet.

You would-

"Intel still thinks it's a hardware company."

Some say that Intel cut a deal with Microsoft to stay out of the software business, if MS would cut off support for other CPU architectures. Remember NT used to be portable?

I remember Intel's compilers used to be much better than Microsoft's, back when I paid attention to stuff like that.

Cinco-X wrote:

You would-

The political type 1's & 2's will always hate the other's smart amoral scum-bags but worship their own.

merchants of fear wrote:

Marx would have been blown away at the 'deception' and 'profit' potential of financialization and derivativization.

The Mortgage Bankers Association and the banking lobby are back warning that any attempt at actual accounting will threaten their industries, and what's bad for them is awful for America. "Nice recovery you got there, guv, you wouldn't want anything to happen to it, would you?" It's of course real funny that they indirectly and inadvertently tell us that the entire so-called recovery is based on nothing but Don't Look Don’t Tell policies.
-Automatic Earth

Six More Sentenced to Death Over Riots in China

On Monday, the same court, based in Urumqi, the capital of the western Xinjiang region, condemned to death six men with Uighur names in connection with the riots. The unrest in July left 197 people dead and more than 1,600 injured, most of them Han, according to the government’s reports. A seventh man was given a life sentence. Those were the first sentences handed down in the aftermath of the riots, and they have been widely criticized by Uighur groups in exile.

China Sentences 6 to Death in Ethnic Riots - NY Times

How many were sentenced to death after LA riots? China is a different place, far removed in so many ways. We cannot compete with China, not until we can deal with miscreants in a similar way. The wall street greed and anarchy/anything goes case in point.