Report: CIT Nears Bankruptcy, CEO to Resign

Well, I did the best I could for 'em! I even bought a CD from their Salt Lake City bank! I wonder if that bank is going to be tied up in this as well. But it's all right... I hear it's now trendy to get checks from the FDIC!!!

Trillions for Wall Street, nothing for Main Street.

The only important questions were whether or not CIT's creditors included some of the Fed's core constituency, and how much they stood to lose or gain by its bankruptcy.

Also this morning CIT announced that CEO Jeffrey Peek is resigning effective Dec 31st.

Will CIT make it to Dec 31st?

Wow - pigged and my post was OT for the new thread - that doesn't happen much.

Good morning - In this week's BFF poll, I am going to take "C" for $500 - between the slow deaths of Capmark and CIT, you have to expect SheBair will be taking their kids away -- their Utah based industrial banks. Do any posters live near Salt Lake? You might wan to send pizza suggestions to Shelia before Friday.

If they only had the 'i' for banking, they'd have been in like Flynn, with the 19 Robbing Hoods of Nottinglose fortune.

I thought this was a recession. In a recession the Fed floods the channels and money leaks out everywhere. In a recession where the banks have unlimited access to free money businesses of every size should be sick of having so much liquidity shoved at tem. Is it possible that this isn't really just a recession?

Maybe CIT was lending to the Chinese auto stimulus program?

Pigged

China auto sales jump 78 percent in September - Yahoo! Finance

Somehow I don't think China is going to be the dominant player in the global auto market for very long. But they seem to have done "Cash for Clunkers" (Cash for rickshaws?) in much grander style than we have, and are reaping the bigger "stimulus" as a result. Wonder when that sword starts to cut the other way, though, as they unwind it?

(pigged up on waivers)

Here's a teaser-course for what can go wrong when you give 100% of your money & confidence to an upstanding precious metals company. (the irony being that this scam actually delivered pm's for awhile, as opposed to ETF's that haven't had to deliver one grain, as of yet...)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
For a while at least, William Alderdice, 39, and his brother James, 26, seemed to have the Midas touch. During the past three years, they transformed a small storefront jewelry business in Fort Lauderdale, Fla., into the International Gold Bullion Exchange (IGBE), a thriving enterprise with 1,000 employees, branch offices in Dallas and Los Angeles, and 1982 sales of $80 million. William Alderdice, the company's chief executive, bragged that IGBE was the biggest gold and silver dealer in the U.S. In television commercials and ads splashed across such newspapers as the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal, IGBE offered to sell precious metals at exceptionally low prices. There was just one catch: customers had to wait several months for delivery of the coins or bullion.

When William Leonard, a court-appointed attorney, opened the vault at IGBE's Fort Lauderdale headquarters he found that "like Old Mother Hubbard's cupboard, it was bare." Or almost bare. Leonard did find a small adding machine and a few wooden blocks painted to look like gold bars.

Fool's Gold - TIME

CIT should just quit and die. Every week it is will they or won't they. Everyone knows they are toast.
So just please just get it over with.

CIT is the one that needs to be helped, AIG wasn't.

dryfly, my guess is CIT will file in early November. I was surprised Peek would stay until the end of the year, but that is probably just spin.

best to all

"Is it possible that this isn't really just a recession?"

nope....just your normal average run-of-the-mill recession that requires trillions and trillions to combat. nothing to see here. move along now.

CR writes: "A CIT bankruptcy will probably lead to even tighter credit for many small businesses exacerbating the current credit situation."


I bow to the master of the understatement.

tighter credit for many small businesses exacerbating the current credit situation

Double whammy of the weak dollar for the non-exporting small businesses.

I love the ad spread. "Considering bankruptcy?," "Blanchard & Co, bullion," and "get debt collectors off your back."

Mel wrote:

CIT is the one that needs to be helped, AIG wasn't.

Mel, CIT may have been too far gone before the bailouts began a year ago. It certainly wasn't a popular choice for the last administration and the current one hasn't tried to pick up that ball.

24-hour Spot Chart - Silver 

looking frenetic, or is it frantic? wazzup, exspurts?

"Last year, banks provided new credit at the annual pace of $472.4 billion in the first quarter and $86.7 billion in the second. This year, on a net basis, they’re not providing any credit whatsoever. In fact, they’re actually liquidating loans at the rate of $857.2 billion in the first quarter and $931.3 billion in the second."

.......as Dick Lane used to say, "Whoa Nellie" (an announcer for LA Thunderbirds Roller Derby and Gardena Racetrack in the 50s & 60s)

I owned a small retail storefront business for years, or should I say it owned me.

That sign outside that stated the hours and days in which I was expected to be there 6 days a week, week in, week out, was an invisible ball & chain that weighed heaviest on my mind.

If I wasn't making money, in fact losing money and had a retail location nowadays, i'd be gone yesterday...

Silver is hugging 60:1 with gold, that's all.

It's good to be certain. I can remember when I was certain. Now, I'm certain I'm not.

Here's an alternative twist on the Taylor Rule for the Fed Funds rate. The normal rule, as quoted by CR a few threads back is like this:

Fed funds target = 2 + 1.5 x inflation - 2 x excess unemployment

So normally the Fed watches inflation and unemployment and sets the Fed Funds Rate accordingly. And as CR pointed out, if the Fed Funds Rate is too high, it impairs the economy -- but with "excess unemployment" about (9.8 - 4.8 = 5%) and inflation low, the Fed Funds Rate should really be well below zero! But now we're hard up on the zero bound, and the Fed cannot control the Fed Funds Rate because it's 0% and cannot go lower. Yet even 0% is too high, and not good for the economy with unemployment this high and inflation this low.

Now for the twist: they cannot set the Federal Funds Rate any lower, and they can't set the excess unemployment rate (although the econ wonks can tweak the "baseline" unemployment level up from 4.8% to some higher % by fiat and hand-waving, it won't be a real change and in any case it won't be enough). BUT THEY CAN CONTROL THE INFLATION RATE, ALBEIT INDIRECTLY!!!

So, given a Fed Funds Rate of 0 for the indefinite future, and excess unemployment at 9.8-4.8 = 5% or more for the indefinite future, we can work out how much inflation the Fed would need to create to meet the Taylor Rule: about 5.3%/year.

Note that Quantitative Easing is not just mathematically equivalent to "debt monetization" but it's also equivalent to "raise inflationary pressure". But at this point I'd have to say that the Fed's new QE "Inflation Policy" isn't reaching the implied goal of 5% inflation...

,rad BSR,

How come the LA T-Birds always rolled against the NY Bombers in El Monte, or that's how it seemed?

I thought they all lived in Pomona...

JD: Not just retail, anyone who is 'self employed' has the business run them, not the opposite as I found out-the hard way. Mine was serviced based, sole/owner/operator and physicians were my clients. I didn't make a ton of money but did okay. It got me out of a clinical setting and I did the majority of my work either up to my eyeballs in charts in the medical records depts dictating or at home. It was at that time I fell in love with espresso.

I can't fathom why most of the small retail around me are still open.
No traffic to be seen. Stuck in the store for hours on end.

The strip malls here are about 30% vac now, (Phx Metro)

Saw Jim Cramer on Chris Matthews' show last night.

He's not nearly as apologetic now as he was on Jon Stewart's show in late winter.

In other news, water is wet.

Maybe there is a transition bonus pool that Jeffrey wants to tap into.

CIT Nears Bankruptcy, CEO to Resign

.... And this would be important because...... ?

Sorry, just woke up.... still can't believe what's happening with the markets, or what we've been subject to in the name of 'saving the banks'...

josap wrote:

I can't fathom why most of the small retail around me are still open.
No traffic to be seen. Stuck in the store for hours on end.

Thank goodness the new cash registers also work as Internet terminals, and they can read CR all day!!! /snark

Or should I channel Marie Antoinette and say, "Let them watch CNBC!"

No way CIT was gonna cost $182 billion.

I remember reading that CIT (Peek?) was an outspoken supporter of McCain. Done. It's a political crisis, you big dummy, not an economic one.

With the price of gold breaking above $1,065, no above $1,068, no make that….. this morning I know a lot of gold bugs - including myself - who are saying “My, my, isn’t this nice…” But, if the truth were out there - and no reason it shouldn’t be - the move here in gold recently has been dwarfed by another ‘commodity’. Grains.

Lessons from a newbie trader:
Was holding DUG 15 October puts. Ended up getting out last week ~ 14 to break even. DUG has proceeded to break down even further to 13.

The same thing happened with me on my September SDS puts as well.

If I was going to take a long position right now I would probably do so via QID puts.

Live and learn... all of my other positions this summer/fall were short (IYR, TLT, SunTrust, Staples). Some of those are open positions until January, but seem so far underwater...

My largest positions have been in Gold and rather than continue to piss my $$$ away like this I've decided to save more.

shill: Don't get me started on that (grains).

LOL....Totally OT....Imagine that.....dunno.......I thought Shirley Hardman was the baddest woman on skates - I was convinced she'd kick the crap out of me one time she was doing a promo and didn't go.....

Derby Memoirs: A Tribute To Roller Derby History - Shirley Hardman

No way CIT was gonna cost $182 billion.

No, but those that judge said it wasn't systemically important. Their ruling was not subject to appeal.

Mom and pop don't have lobbyists or G/S on their side.

,rads:

Historical ratios from GD1 post apart-hide

1934: 73-1
1935: 55-1
1936: 78-1
1937: 78-1
1938: 81-1
1939: 90-1
1940: 100-1

We can't make any small business loans, but we still have lots of money for bad loans for houses. That's a policy, so I guess it's ok.

Older couple down the street own a toy store.
Bet they "retire" after Christmas.

They have never gone into debt for inventory, so they may be ok. I just hope they haven't used any savings to try to weather this, but probably have.

josap wrote:

I can't fathom why most of the small retail around me are still open.
No traffic to be seen. Stuck in the store for hours on end.

My wife and daughter went to one of the nicer malls in the metro-west area outside of Boston earlier this month. They reported that they were the ONLY people in the food court for lunch. It must be brutal for those folks-

I used to look across the street at the poor soul manning the luggage store, wondering how he made money?

Not the infamous new Natick Mall perchance? That's been an incredible disaster.

Banks only lend you money when you don't need it, and won't lend when you do. But when they need a bailout....

Nothing has changed except the size of bank bonuseswhich are getting bigger.

If you were to buy a small commercial business for cash and convince customers you were financially stable, you could do very well.

If you were to buy a small commercial business for cash and convince customers you were financially stable, you could do very well.

I'll take what is Wall*Street?

Increasing home prices will boost consumer confidence. I would rather earn money doing nothing rather than 'work' for a small business!

Where is Paul Volcker? He was supposed to 'change' all this.

Rob Dawg wrote:

Not the infamous new Natick Mall perchance? That's been an incredible disaster.

No; Solomon Pond Mall. Not quite as fancy, but still much nicer than the malls in Worcester, Auburn, Leominster, etc. I went to Natick Mall for lunch about 3 weeks ago and it was dead as well.

So it's starting to look like that mortgage tax credit thing is a done deal.

Just remember:

If you have a centrally managed economy, it's going to be centrally managed by Wall Street and the special interest groups.

Enjoy!

rb wrote:

If you were to buy a small commercial business for cash and convince customers you were financially stable, you could do very well.

Only if your customers could afford to actually buy what you're selling-

ac wrote:

So it's starting to look like that mortgage tax credit thing is a done deal.

What mortgage tax credit thing?

Mortgage tax credit will be with us for years. There are 7 mil houses in forclosure.

This is so far from over, we may as well be at the begining. Except going from bad to worse, I don't see much different.

ac: Where do you see that? It needs to get out of the Senate Finance Committee... they are mired in the health care bill. I guess you think the health care bill will get off their plate soon?

Banking CONvoy attack (as imagined from my perch on just the other side of nowhere...)

YouTube - Das Boot (1981) - Convoy attack - English subtitles

Now when we talk small businesses, are we talking under $250MM in sales or under 150 employees. The former figure was IBM's definition, if I remember correctly, for their marketing purposes.

What mortgage tax credit thing?

Sorry - I meant the home buyer tax credit that the mortgage industry is lobbying for.

The one that CR's be saying bad things about.

Prepare for Debt Charges!

Terry wrote:

Do any posters live near Salt Lake? You might wan to send pizza suggestions to Shelia before Friday.

The Pie near the U of U is probably the best known place - cheesy, sloppy, greasy things, perfect for the university crowd. Settebello is right downtown and has - no lie - the best authentic Italian style pizza I've had outside of Italy. May be a bit highfalutin' for the FDIC crowd, though.

Maybe "done deal" is too strong:

The expansion -- or, at a minimum, extension -- of the $8,000 first-time-home-buyer tax credit that is set to expire Nov. 30 is at the top of the legislative agenda for the Mortgage Bankers Association, with one of the MBA's leaders saying the trade group is "very close" to winning that battle in Congress.

"We are pushing for expansion of the tax credit, and we are very close to winning this one," said David Kittle, MBA's outgoing chairman.

Home-buyer tax credit renewal 'very close': MBA - MarketWatch

From what I have read, both houses and congress critters are all in favor of extending (possibly increasing) the credit. So they can do it in their spare time, just a quick vote and done.

The mortgage tax credit, that can be used as the down payment, is what J6P sees as his part of the bail out money. Must throw the voters some crumbs.


Juvenal Delinquent (profile) wrote on Tue, 10/13/2009 - 8:32 am

Prepare for Debt Charges!

Prepare the debt charges! We'll blow 'em outta the water!

Re: Tax Credit
I think the credit will get extended to December 2010... the question is will it get increased to $15k? The Senate is agitating for it to go up to $15k; the house once again has set it at $8k. This happened when the credit was approved and the House "won" in committee with an $8k credit.

The mortgage tax credit, that can be used as the down payment, is what J6P sees as his part of the bail out money. Must throw the voters some crumbs.

This is exactly correct, and why it will sail through.

We can jump up and down and scream all we want, and send all the letters we want, but the bottom line is, Congress critters don't care about making your children debt-slaves. They only care about the next election.

YLSP the increase to 15K will be extended to ALL primary residence home buyers and not just first time homeowners as I understand it.

House bill is HR3640
Senate bill is S1230

While they may agree the extension is a good idea I imagine there will be some give-tax on the final bill.

As the middle range properties are forclosing now, and the bottom range is worked through, I think they will increase it to $15,000.00 and make it available to all buyers. This is the only way I see the mid range will start selling.

I think the credit will get extended to December 2010... the question is will it get increased to $15k? The Senate is agitating for it to go up to $15k; the house once again has set it at $8k. This happened when the credit was approved and the House "won" in committee with an $8k credit.

Well, CR makes a convincing case that this is a poor use of money. Of course it's other people's money, so the congress doesn't care.

But we've chosen the path of having Washington manage the economy. So this kind of waste is going to become much more common.

Nanooo:
It looks like you are correct. The House bill was introduced 2 weeks ago.

In General- Subsection (a) of section 36 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by striking who is a first-time homebuyer of a principal residence' and insertingwho purchases a principal residence'.

I still think there will be a fight over $15k v. $8k.

pigmen.org and .net are AVAILABLE!

Washington manage the economy

Winner, this is exactly what we now have, a government run economy. The Fed decides who wins and who dies. All else is just window dressing.

ac wrote:

Of course it's other people's money, so the congress doesn't care.

Better yet, it's money that hasn't even been earned yet by folks that won't be able to vote until the current office holder are long gone-

Das Boot (1981): one of the best war movies ever made.

But the English language version lost more than a little in the translation.

until the current office holder are long gone-

IBGYBG (I'll be gone, you'll be gone).

Nice to see that Congress is learning from Wall Street's best and brightest!

The High Sierra is going to get the equivalent of 6 to 8 feet of snow all in one day, today.

Most of it will be of the unfrozen variety however.

YLSP: The devil is always in the details. What about those moving down, not up-without a mortgage, do they get 'free' money to go with their capital gains?

The number of short sales will explode if the credit is available to any buyer.

That will lower the number of forclosures and make things look better. It will clear inventory faster and keep prices from crashing faster.

The MBA is meeting in San Diego this week. Renewal of the FTHB credit is their rallying cry.

Of course it's not at all clear that what the MBA wants is in the best interests of the country.

Another WW2 film of similar caliber, different vein.

Soldier of Orange

Juvenal Delinquent wrote:

The High Sierra is going to get the equivalent of 6 to 8 feet of snow all in one day, today.
Most of it will be of the unfrozen variety however.

This is good because saturated soils mean the spring melt release will be more gradual increasing the capture.

Small business like Mom and Pops can make excellent money if run properly. Business that involes product and service is the best in my opinion.

Small business like Mom and Pops can make excellent money if run properly. Business that involes product and service is the best in my opinion.

If they or one of their children doesn't get sick or injured.

It's amazing really, good fortune all @ once.

I've been in one Typhoon in the Far East in Hong Kong (Ike 1984) which had come from the Philippines headed east. Is it normal for these to come west with such strength leftover?

Typhoon Ike - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cinco-X: Can you clean up your links?

Lobbyist Ben Dover wrote:

Small business like Mom and Pops can make excellent money if run properly.

FWIW, that's actually true of most businesses, and if you make having a good business plan and good business model part of "being properly run", then it's true of essentially all businesses.

YLSP wrote:

Cinco-X: Can you clean up your links?

They work fine for me using Firefox-

"If they or one of their children doesn't get sick or injured."

Lack of preparation does not make a victim. That's what insurance is for. If you can't cover that then you will fail anyway.

volker the viking wrote:

I bow to the master of the understatement.

I'm pretty sure CR is 1/3 British nobility. This isn't the first time I've choked on my coffee reading his wry understatement.

That's what insurance is for.

Small business... Oh INSURANCE! About that... I have some bad news.

What is with all of these rumors of Citigroup being a possible for bankruptcy and them missing payments on dividends? Did they cook their books that well the past 2 earnings reports?

Chapter 7, line out.

Next shooter up

Lobbyist Ben Dover wrote:

Lack of preparation does not make a victim. That's what insurance is for. If you can't cover that then you will fail anyway.

Now you're gonna open up a pandora's box. For small businesses in particular, there are legions of uninsured, underinsured because the offerings are so slim and horrifically expensive. It is the single biggest cause for individual BK and failing businesses. Its why the current so called 'free market' paradigm in health care is a total disaster as care is metered as a PROFIT motivation. I've seen it first hand. Its appalling.

The idea of competitive free markets in health care was executed in its extreme with HMOs, PPO, and the like. It promised over 20 years ago to provide efficient care, more accessible care and lower costs. The exact opposite happened in SPADES. Time to give that one UP.

Hoops,

Challenges are some times risk/reward. Been there done that but most mom and pops really have little clue as to what they are doing especially if they went to business school.

They work fine, it's just odd seeing a whole paragraph as a link. I suppose its my own personal preference... I always thought there was some etiquette involved in the use of the ahref tag...

And, yesterday, the esteemed Jim Cramer was on The Today Show, telling Mat Lauer that everyone should BUYBUYBUY, 'cuz all the banks that were going to fail had failed already...

Unbeweevable.

Goldman Sachs, JPM, BAC, WFC, MS risk their own money or other people's?
Washington isn't doing ENOUGH to manage the public banking system.

Stiglitz, above, dead-on and understandable for laymen, as usual.

Lobbyist Ben Dover,

I see. Health insurance is unaffordable to small enterprises because our small business owners are stupid and/or over-educated, and not because of any disparity in bargaining power between small enterprises and a private insurance monopoly.

I see the Boys of Summers spokesperson said there was hope for next season...

Dem Bums

shill wrote:

But, if the truth were out there - and no reason it shouldn’t be - the move here in gold recently has been dwarfed by another ‘commodity’. Grains.

Grains haven't moved that drastically, in comparison to 2007-2008. Corn's still under $4, for heaven's sake.

Goldman Sachs, JPM, BAC, WFC, MS risk their own money or other people's?

It's cool man, we figured out that if they risk printed money, nobody loses.

Goldman Sachs 2009 bonuses to double 2008’s; $23 billion could send 460,000 to Harvard, buy insurance for 1.7 million families

Chapter 7, line out.

ooooo... me loves me some darkside betting.

No can of worms for me. Been there done that and made lots of money while watching competitors come and go most in big style. If you can't save enough to bank roll your start then you can't manage money well enough to make it. I love it can't be done America, It makes it easier for those of us who do it.

General Jack D. Ripper: Now why don't you just take it easy, Group Captain, and please make me a drink of grain alcohol and rainwater, and help yourself to whatever you'd like.

CR, combining this post with a reprint of the job creation by firm size graph you posted over the weekend would be interesting. No credit,no job creation.

All,

Check out this interactive credit delinquency map/tool from the Fed. It's got everything - mortgages, student loans, credit cards, etc.

US Credit Conditions - Federal Reserve Bank of New York 

Dade County, FL is particularly interesting as 18.41% of ALL mortgages were in arrears at the end of Q2, 2009! I checked CA, AZ & NV, but it appears Dade County is the reigning champ!

With so many delinquencies in so many areas, I just don't see how the housing market can be at a bottom. Those greedy bastard bankers and incompetent regulators screwed this country but good.

cinco great link. It is spot on.

Sooner or later they will have to reduce principal, or forclose. It is that simple.

Juvenal Delinquent wrote:

Is it normal for these to come west with such strength leftover?

The jet stream pattern and weak El Nino and PDO should have these sliding in all winter.

Hoops,

Simple way for many is for one spouse to say working in a job with benefits. My wife worked for one year. We made profits in the second month with no loans. You have to know your business and craft.

shill wrote:

What is with all of these rumors of Citigroup being a possible for bankruptcy and them missing payments on dividends? Did they cook their books that well the past 2 earnings reports?

Reggie at boombustblog has much to say on the subject.

It's cool man, we figured out that if they risk printed money, nobody loses.

Very funny, lol!

Simple way for many is for one spouse to say working in a job with benefits. My wife worked for one year. We made profits in the second month with no loans. You have to know your business and craft.

That right there sounds like an ideal system for offering low cost high quality health care to small businesses and fostering free enterprise as a nation.

As a small biz owner, over 55, my insurance is $800+ per month. Just for me. Matches my space rent.

We made profits in the second month with no loans.

Porn or Ponzi?

(waxes skis poetically, as I mentally free-heel amidst the red columns, pitted against white, pure as the driven snow...in the land of the giants)

As a small biz owner, over 55, my insurance is $800+ per month. Just for me. Matches my space rent.

Well it is kind of like a rental payment. Think of healthcare premiums like rent for your life. Rented from a large corporation which has inserted itself between your doctor and you.

Yogi,

Busted knuckles and auto repair. Market research we did using a phone book and renting warehouse space, two guys with some tools and a few bucks. The old fashion American hustle not a thing illegal.

Wisdom, no cash for clunkers in China, just lots of sales. This is very key since 1 million car sales in China probably means an increase in their auto fleet of 975,000. In the US, we have a mostly replacement market, so 1 millionnew cars sold (if we ever get back to those levels) mans that our fleet increases by maybe 50,000 cars. Those chinese cars are going tobe in the road a very long time, and conuming oil for decades. Here C4C lowered oil demand, there high auto sales raise demand permamently.

Grains haven't moved that drastically, in comparison to 2007-2008. Corn's still under $4, for heaven's sake.

Ya your right all is well.

China to raise minimum wheat purchasing prices

China to raise minimum wheat purchasing prices


Hoopajoops LTD (homepage, profile) wrote on Tue, 10/13/2009 - 9:17 am

As a small biz owner, over 55, my insurance is $800+ per month. Just for me. Matches my space rent.

Well it is kind of like a rental payment. Think of healthcare premiums like rent for your life. Rented from a large corporation which has inserted itself between your doctor and you.

A kinder, gentler Vampire Squid. Well, until government-run healthcare, which itself will be run by the larger Vampire Squid.

Think what you'd pay FedEx to deliver a letter if there were no Post Office. FedEx pays bonuses and dividends, remember.

What would you pay Con Edison if they could charge whatever they wanted when it gets cold?

Public health insurance option now!

good morning
another day as cit turns. another day of recovery. i m going to go swing.


1 currency now -yogi (profile) wrote on Tue, 10/13/2009 - 9:26 am

Think what you'd pay FedEx to deliver a letter if there were no Post Office. FedEx pays bonuses and dividends, remember.

What would you pay Con Edison if they could charge whatever they wanted when it gets cold?

Public health insurance option now!

That's the problem - government-run does NOT mean public if the government is effectively run by private interests. It means state-enforced monopoly and sweetheart deals for a coterie of selected providers at the public's expense.

Oil is up. Gold is up. What gives? I thought we had a strong dollar policy.

What a system. The plan is to de-value real savings in order to increase the value of fraudulent credit. Yeah, that's going to bring prosperity to the majority. Just like higher housing, stock and commodity prices made the majority wealthier over the past five years.

Great plan Bernanke. Just great .

Exactly how much financial pain will the majority have to endure before Bernanke realizes that more debt IS the problem.

Now that the FDIC is out of cash, will we see fewer closings?

Lobbyist Ben Dover wrote:

The old fashion American hustle not a thing illegal.

Followed much the same course opening a law office with a $5,000 credit card that went immediately into furniture, equipment and rent. No clients. Put an ad in the local paper "Free Consultation" in my chosen areas of practice. Did a lot of listening and talking for free.

But made enough in my second month to stay in business. No wife, no backup, no insurance. It's a helluva motivator.

Never made any serious money in the business, though, since I never overcharged clients and took on my share of pro bono work. Glad I got out before it killed me.

Still . . . I'm totally in agreement with Hoops and others when it comes to universal health care.

You can give the Fed government how much a month for what and think $800 is to much for health insurance?


Angry Saver (profile) wrote on Tue, 10/13/2009 - 9:31 am

Oil is up. Gold is up. What gives? I thought we had a strong dollar policy.

What a system. The plan is to de-value real savings in order to increase the value of fraudulent credit. Yeah, that's going to bring prosperity to the majority. Just like higher housing, stock and commodity prices made the majority wealthier over the past five years.

Yes. You just failed to note "the majority" actually means "the majority of the landed gentry"

Million dollar salaries and bonuses for leadership = bankrupt company. Err...

Laissez-faire may work well for auto repair, because as you note there are incredibly small barriers to entry (not so with auto making). Repeat business is necessary so honest dealing is crucial for long-term success (not so with selling mortgages).

I still have had trouble finding a mechanic I could trust, but I don't own a car now.

I don't think that big of a majority have endured the pain yet, because otherwise there would be more support for new and independent politicians with plans to actually improve the standard of living for the lower and middle classes. I think support for these type of politicians will gain a lot of momentum in the coming years, it apparently hasn't happened yet though. There are still many people counting on Obama to to deliver the solutions, but they will soon be disillusioned by this misguided hope in my view.

But, but...

If they weren't paid too much, somebody else would pay too much for their services.

jturner

I don't think the "standard of living" has to go up, We went on a binge of big screen TVs, new cars, mcmansions, vacation homes, super upgraded kitchens. What we need is to have realistic standards of living.

Time to grow up and give up the Starbucks habit. YMMV

@ jturner (profile) wrote on Tue, 10/13/2009 - 7:35 am
There are still many people counting on Obama to to deliver the solutions, but they will soon be disillusioned by this misguided hope in my view.

The author of this diary 'gets it 'and so do many former Obama supporters who see thru the transparency
Daily Kos: A Revolution IS Being Televised; But, It's Not Our Revolution

Yogi,

There would be better mechanics with better pay which means the customer will pay more. Not likely to happen in any service business.

No, the public option won't be perfectly efficient. Perfect solutions are for Ayn Rand novels, Milton Friedman graphs, Eternal Salvation claims, and Obama campaign speeches.

The relevant question is whether a public option for public health, or more public control over the public banking system, would be better than what exists now.

We could let Con Ed raise their prices to whatever they can gouge...

Million dollar salaries and bonuses

Dont worry, pretty soon everyone will be making $1M plus. Barely able to afford food, but all millionaires.

well said yogi.

Trussafarian = People that fed off of the ATM terminal in their ever-increasing in value home, and lived the life of Riley.

One investor that would take a hit in a CIT bankruptcy is the U.S. government. The United States' Troubled Asset Relief Program invested $2.3 billion in CIT in December and much or all of that could be lost if the company files for bankruptcy, analysts said.

I'll take the over.

JD and RD-
Hold off on all the el nino predictions, sometimes they lead to less rainfall..its raining pretty good here in the city...

lobbyist ben-I put this into many independent repair shops to even ball field with dealers..heck even shade tree mechanics were all over it in the early 90's..I still see a need for good mechanics and a bmw tech can easily make 100K+ at a dealership..they are always looking for good techs..driveability especially..

Automotive Repair, Auto Recalls, Automotive Software & TSB's - ALLDATA

Pardon me while I talk my book.

My bet is still in place. No BK at CIT before Nov 3. The offer to exchange debt is scheduled to end Oct 29. My bonds mature Nov 1.

I'm betting that if there is a BK, it gets delayed by some new maneuver.

Thanks for that Cinco-X, I had no idea that principal forebearance was a 'balloon' and NOT forgiveness.

What a mess. Dooooooooooooooom!!!

A little melancholy this morning, some Beck:
Volcano
The lyrics seem somewhat apt descriptors of our current march...

I've been walking on these streets so long
I don't know where they're going to lead anymore
But I think I must have seen a ghost
I don't know if it's my
illusions that keep me alive

I don't know what I've seen
Was it all an illusion?
All a mirage gone bad?
I'm tired of evil
And all that it feeds
But I don't know

I've been drifting on this wave so long
I don't know if it's already crashed on the shore
And I've been riding on this train so long
I can't tell if it's you or me who's
driving us into the ground

I don't know if I'm sane
But there's a ghost in my heart
Who's trying to see in the dark
I'm tired of people who only want to be pleased
But I still want to please you

And I heard of that Japanese girl
Who jumped into the volcano
Was she trying to make it back?
Back into the womb of the world?

I've been drinking all these tears so long
All I've got left is the taste
of salt in my mouth

I don't know where I've been
But I know where I'm going
To that volcano
I don't want to fall in though
Just want to warm my bones
On that fire a while

ot-why wouldn't a fund manager not dump everything here instead of 10K promised land...or distribute on up days leading to it...

I know I would...

creditcriminalslovetarp wrote:

JD and RD-
Hold off on all the el nino predictions, sometimes they lead to less rainfall..its raining pretty good here in the city...

Here's the good news: NOAA

cinco-x, city journal appears to be a publication of the Manhattan Institute for Policy Research, which Wiki describes as a conservative think-tank. A look at Board members and other affiliates is instructive.

Manhattan Institute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The media is focusing almost exclusively on "irresponsible lending," which is indeed a big part of the problem, but irresponsible lending is not the whole story. There are currently millions of people who HAD JOBS and now DON'T HAVE JOBS.

There are lots of people who HAD INCOMES sufficient to support their families and their obligations, who now DON'T HAVE INCOMES.

We see the unemployment stats every month, but it has yet to sink in for a lot of people what the cumulative damage to America's capacity to spend and service prior debt commitments truly amounts to.

We is broke.

And those with jobs are worried they won't have jobs. Or hours cut back or pay cut or unpaid furlow days.

Vonbeck,
Saw your post at some point recently re: "zero tolerance". This policy and others like it should make people who are hoping that there will be some great revolution or people will "wake up" less optimistic.

Did you make any decision re: swine flu vaccine? Doctor informed us our 1 year old has allergies and shouldn't get it. We are thinking of giving it to my son. After reading some more re: deaths are due to secondary infections and not the flu I'm wondering if getting a pneumonia vaccine might be a better course... the recent reports all over the news that pregnant women and children under 5 are most risk of complications has us leaning towards the vaccine, but its hard to tell if this is part of some bs pr moves...

....the idea of the FedGov REQUIRING health insurance is BullSh**! It's a good thing I don't have to pay for it, because I WOULDN'T.

I feel math-impaired today.

Anyone know offhand what the current total is for continuing claims, plus extended benefits, plus extra-super-duty extended claims, plus people who ran completely out of benefits? Just trying to ball-park the cumulative damage of the firings and job-loss tsunami that is still surging across the entire country.

It's raining cats and dogs now (a Cheshire just flew by, missed me by inches...)

The Next Big Bailout? FHA Facing "Cataclysmic" Default Rates

"Effectively we the taxpayers are now guaranteeing mortgages written by over 10,000 FHA-approved lenders," Tilson says. "The FHA's portfolio is exploding [and] the taxpayer is now on the hook for 100% of the losses."

How big of a hook? The FHA's mortgage portfolio is now approaching $1 trillion. You can't assume all those mortgages will default but you can assume the FHA's exposure will only grow in the months ahead as politicians continue to look for ways to support the housing market (especially in an election year.)

The Next Big Bailout FHA Facing "Cataclysmic" Default Rates: Tech Ticker, Yahoo! Finance

Jonathan

Most loan mods are designed to fail.

If they start reducing principal ..... millions of properties are underwater, trillions of dollars have to be written off, TBTF fails. So extend and pretend is must be, until it isn't.

Today is October 13th. Been a lot of talk round these parts in the recent past predicting an October collapse/surprise/meltdown.

Updates?

And, Juvie--are we on hold for the ten day deal?

Black Star Ranch wrote:

It's a good thing I don't have to pay for it, because I WOULDN'T.

Anyone who pays a dollar to the Federal Government is already paying for all sorts of health care.

Three Torches,

Irresponsible lending, or the contraction in many forms of lending, is responsible for many of the lost jobs. Some jobs just shouldn't have been done. Others had artificial demand employing far too many people. We didn't need as many realtors, construction workers, or car salesmen as we had in 2007.

I don' t think we should view our recession as an impaired ability to spend. If we have good productivity, making things people want, the ability to spend will follow. To the extent that most debt is owed to others in the US, the default rearranges assets and balance sheets among individuals, not nationally. For the portion of the debts which cross borders, there may be large net transfers, with people outside the US taking net writedowns. However, remember that many other countries had housing bubbles, and now have bad recessions. Americans own some of that bad paper.

Great, we can add to No Perp Walks the possibility of a Reverse Perp Walk:

Yahoo! 404 - Page Not Found

Black Star, you paid in Viet-Nam. No reason to be so indignant.

You can only see about 1/10th of the iceberg you are about to run into, as a rule of thumb.

barfly wrote:

Black Star, you paid in Viet-Nam. No reason to be so indignant.

Sadly, our Iraqistan vets may have a reason to be indignant 'cause they won't have much of anything when they get out--if they are lucky enough to be in one piece physically and only slightly damaged emotionally. Puzzled

rob dawg, I was surprised by the severe drought in Wisconsin-N. Minn. highlighted in graph..hmmmm

japanese traders betting on strong dollar

The Debts of a Nation: The Debts of the Lenders: Japanese Forex Traders Make Record Bets on a Stronger Dollar

Yagij, maybe a free house would help? We have a few million spares, many of them owned by Fannie/Freddie.

I hear you, investor guy. But I do think impaired spending is a real factor. Look at auto plants, for instance. In some communities, you had people that had real jobs making decent wages who had a perfectly reasonable home mortgage for their areas and incomes.

Plant shuts down. People let go.

Now, stuck in a house they can't sell (who wants to buy a house and move to an area with no jobs?) with a mortgage payment that they cannot make because they are unemployed.

There was no fraud, no crazy financing, just plain-vanilla folks with plain-vanilla loans that they can no longer afford ... part of the folly of the 30-year pay-back concept, I suppose, in the assumption that things would keep going just as they always had before, but still, that was the system for the last 50 or 60 years, and now it seems to be irretrievably broken, but the banks keep trying to collect on these uncollectable loans.

The auto plant is really just an example, but I think a good one, because we as a nation seem to have become Detroit mid-seventies writ large. It is somehow easier to blame it all on fraud or criminal activity, when in reality I think there are systemic flaws that have yet to be addressed.

YLSP: If a doc says your child shouldn't get the vaccine then its likely due to how the vaccine is made (eggs-perhaps an allergy to eggs?). Don't do it but get the regular seasonal vaccine which will provide some protection and ask for guidance again regarding H1N1. Additionally pregnant women are more at risk because of immune system changes during pregnancy-its not BS.

If your child has asthma and other types of allergies a vaccine will be out soon that can be taken that isn't a live virus vaccine but dead virus, so it is tolerated better by those with underlying conditions.

Nursie Nanoo

Juvenal Delinquent wrote:

You can only see about 1/10th of the iceberg you are about to run into, as a rule of thumb.

I don't need to see the whole iceberg in order to make the decision to go around it.

YLSP,
I don't know what I am going to do right now...trying to hold the fort down, my wife is out of town this week at a conference...and my four year old started running a fever the afternoon she left. Our 20 month old, had one last week for a couple of days, but never seemed sick. Four year old is low energy, sleeping most of the day, and running consistently between 101-102, and is definitely fighting something. Called our doc on Monday when his fever breached 103, but since he doesn't have any other symptoms, we are waiting it out with tylenol. Good news is he seems over the worst of it this morning, and he slept all through the night last night, so I think he may be on the mend. Temp down to 99.7. Our doc doesn't want us to bring the kids in right now...too many sick kids in the waiting room unless it is an emergency. They are doing the flu clinics though, and he recommended vaccines. As I said before, we don't get sick that often...this year has been unusual for us. They are urging my wife's office to get flu shots too, so if she does, I imagine we will too. Choices, choices, choices.

barfly wrote:

city journal appears to be a publication of the Manhattan Institute for Policy Research, which Wiki describes as a conservative think-tank.

Well I certainly wouldn't be posting links to liberal think tanks, unless of course I thought they were correct. Ditto for the conservative think tanks.

creditcriminalslovetarp wrote:

japanese traders betting on strong dollar

I'm mixed on that thought. I would say that they are going to get fleeced if they weren't Japanese betters, but since the BoJ has the hammer ready to weaken the Yen v. USD, I might take that bet. Depends on how other countries respond to all of this USD/JPY volatility.

some investor guy wrote:

Yagij, maybe a free house would help?

That is assuming D.C. is capable of good public policy moves, right?

US Home Rescue Plan Delaying, Not Solving Crisis - Real Estate * US * News * Story - CNBC.com

US Home Rescue Plan Delaying, Not Solving Crisis

"For homeowners like Jeff Latta, there was no help at all. Latta, a 53 year-old retiree, pays $1,600 in monthly home payments that eat up 93 percent of his pension and he struggles to make child support payments.

To help pay his mortgage, Latta has slashed his bills by hunting for food in the wooded hills around his town of Albany in southern Ohio, and growing his own vegetables. He has resorted to selling pumpkins and firewood to make cash.

AP

In March, Latta heard about Obama's Home Affordable Modification Program, or HAMP, that allows mortgage payments to be reduced to 31 percent of a homeowner's income. The plan was launched as a central plank of Washington's efforts to stem foreclosures.

Latta applied for a loan modification but was rejected. His bank said his income from selling pumpkins and firewood — a net of $906 in 2008 — was too high.

"Frankly, I'm disappointed," Latta said. "I thought I would qualify as I am at high risk of default."

....Uh, you might try actually getting a job with a paycheck at age 53 if you were dumb enough to retire at that age on nearly no income...instead of selling firewood, check with McDonald's..and CNBC thinks this is an example of someone on the ropes...I see this guy as too damn lazy to keep his house....

Just my 2 cents...

Woman I know was laid off 2 yrs ago, at 60. MBA, accounting deg.

No job yet.

creditcriminalslovetarp wrote:

rob dawg, I was surprised by the severe drought in Wisconsin-N. Minn. highlighted in graph..hmmmm

One thing that concerns me greatly is our reduced grain reserve capacity, combined with our excessively long North American drought-free period. Just like homebuilders and constantly-rising prices leading to complacent bankers, the extensive nationwide drought-free period has lulled us into a false sense of security regarding the need to have public grain storage capacity.

There has been a great deal of storage built privately, but pardon me if I'm not completely comfortable with that solution.

A banker's $10 million bonus gets cut 90%; a teacher gets the same hourly wage with a mandatory 2 day/month furlough. Oil goes up 20%. Whose haircut is more hideous?

Americans owe it to other Americans to learn the distinction.

Angry Saver posted about Dade having the highest mortgage delinquincy rate. It's actually Shannon County South Dakota. 1/3 of all mortgages there are late.

For those of you not familiar with the area, it's part of the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation. It is one of the poorest parts of the US, with the lowest life expectancy. The area is so poor and boring it doesn't have government offices.

bruce,

93% of pension goes to a payment...how did he get the loan to start with..most likely before retirement..

same city he can rent a refurbished home for $600.00

http://athensohio.craigslist.org/apa/1398024929.html

why is renting bad? note to self..sell sell sell asap..

Bruce in Tennessee wrote:

...and he struggles to make child support payments.
.
....Uh, you might try actually getting a job with a paycheck at age 53 if you were dumb enough to retire at that age on nearly no income...

I'd say that he is ducking the alimony and/or child support payments. I've seen this game play out quite a few times, and instead of going to court to document a change of circumstances (to reduce payments), men just go down. They become "unproductive" from a society standpoint and start working under the table and stashing cash anywhere so the ex-wife and her pups don't get it. Men usually get that way when there is a new hen in the hen house and she wants all the feed for herself and her own chicks.
.
May be completely out in left field with this story, but I have seen it become more and more commonplace to see men just up and quit to play the "Woe is me" card in hopes that the Women of the Past leave 'em alone...

Ironyweed

a teacher gets the same hourly wage with a mandatory 2 day/month furlough.

That teacher just needs to get with the program and buy some spoos.

creditcriminalslovetarp,

Not surprised at all. My best Mechanic about 15 years ago made $75K and that is in an independent shop working on all kinds of cars. He was good! Most could barley make half that with lots of hand holding. The Beemer mechanic at a dealership is good but working on one brand factory training and support company politics is not that unusual.

Sports,

When you get restless and want to try your own business again, Do a post-mortem on why the first one that did notwork out. You now have the education of what did not work so turn it around. I learned a lot in my first one and it paid off big on the second.

Later lunch and play calls.

yag, so true...

and the kids suffer....I've been paying for 14 years and will work in the fields and live in a car to keep my kid afloat...
meanwhile I've known so many ladies who don't get jack from thier ex's.. they are similar to bankers.....stealing a childs future..

cinco-x - it's just fun to know where all the axes are being ground.

josap, I am going to go out on a limb and guess that the 60-year old unemployed MBA finds her previous level of spending and debt service unsustainable at her current income level.

Eric wrote:

That teacher just needs to get with the program and buy some spoos.

Just make sure you buy your spoos from a reputable broker. Many men and women sell spoos-like options, but don't settle for anything without seeing a criminal rap sheet and/or a broker's license first.

My daughter has an egg allergy. I think we've given them the flu vaccine, mostly my wife's choice. I've never gotten the flu vaccine. It was recommended to get the "regular" seasonal flu. vaccine first to strengthen immune system and then the H1N1 vaccine. None of us are high risk. All of us have been sick this weekend/last week, my son had a fever + sore throat + coughing but his activity level hasn't dropped. I started getting symptoms on Sunday; but it feels more like change of weather sinusitis rather than flu, and two days of rest, hydration and soup have helped.

I really don't like the way the government has been pushing the swine flu story... I'm sure everyone has heard the report re: 76 children died due to flu this year and how its much higher than past average. How do we know the stats aren't higher this year since everyone is paying a lot closer attention to deaths caused by the flu? Perhaps the number went undercounted previously. Additionally, its my understanding that nearly everyone who has the flu this year is getting the novel H1N1... even though the stats might say "not tested"... when it is tested its like 95% going towards the new flue strain. I'm suspicious the rates are higher since more people are paying attention.

I'm sure there will be some who disagree with the above paragraph, which is fine... maybe my stats are all off too.

A foreclosure by a US entity on an Indian reservation may violate a treaty. Shitibank may be sitting on a mountain of bull.

Argentina May Default Without Debt Accord: Week

Argentina May Default Without Debt Accord: Week Ahead (Update3) - Bloomberg.com

why can't our president look like that...

yagij

I'd say that he is ducking the alimony and/or child support payments. I've seen this game play out quite a few times, and instead of going to court to document a change of circumstances (to reduce payments), men just go down. They become "unproductive" from a society standpoint and start working under the table and stashing cash anywhere so the ex-wife and her pups don't get it. Men usually get that way when there is a new hen in the hen house and she wants all the feed for herself and her own chicks.
.
May be completely out in left field with this story, but I have seen it become more and more commonplace to see men just up and quit to play the "Woe is me" card in hopes that the Women of the Past leave 'em alone...

That is pretty good writing yagij, imho.

"CIT death, Holmes?
Whither the murder weapon?"
"Elementary."

shill wrote:

Ya your right all is well.

I never said that; I just said that we haven't seen some gigantic rally or anything yet.

And I didn't understand what exchange rate they were referring to in that article. What are they buying for 90 yuan? There's no units in that story.

Is it per kilo? Per bushel? Per litre? All I know is that they're paying $13 for something, but I just don't know what. What I do know is that wheat is still around $5, the same place it's been bouncing along for the past year. It's at the high end of the range, but it's not in the stratosphere yet or anything.

So who sold trillions in Argentina CDS and booked the appropriate bonus?

Oh, sorry, that's too-big-for-public-knowledge.

men just go down. They become "unproductive" from a society standpoint and start working under the table and stashing cash anywhere so the ex-wife and her pups don't get it. Men usually get that way when there is a new hen in the hen house and she wants all the feed for herself and her own chicks.

lately, i've been seeing this behavior more frequently, but with Uncle Sam instead of the ex-wife. partially explains the collapse in tax revenues.

3torches

No, she has a smallish house, bought before the boom. Never lived large. Car paid for years ago.

Currently making all her payments using up her 401k , after she went through her stocks, savings and jewlery. Her house is just a bit underwater now.

Lobbyist Ben Dover wrote:

When you get restless and want to try your own business again, Do a post-mortem on why the first one that did notwork out.

Actually, it did work out well for many years while I enjoyed what I was doing. What caused me to stop was growing tired of the business itself. It would the equivalent of being an auto mechanic and hating the fact that there was grease under my fingernails.

I do understand why so many lawyers end up as drunks. I found it easier just to disengage.

For where I sit, I think we are being played by both sides and herded toward a cliff. The cognitive dissonance coming from don't worry it is mild, to kids are dying line up for your shot...is a wee bit unnerving. I do know the medical system is being stressed already, so the country is walking a fine line. At the end of the day, house wins no matter what happens. Money is being made on this crisis.

I closed my business for several years due to burn out. Worked for others. Reopened when I was mellower.

Don't want to build as big, keep the stress level as low as possible. Works better for me this way.

1 more fed pomo after todays action...I think they have 3 billion left...market should be much more playable now....

josap wrote:

Reopened when I was mellower.

Never reopened; hence I am mellower. Also still married to the mother of our grown children.

I'm actually pretty lucky.

I have mentioned this before...but study the Depression, the behavior of men in crisis is interesting...the men who ran out on wife and family came from all levels of society. The loss of wealth is a great equalizer in some ways...should be interesting to watch family law in this information age over the next decade.

YLSP: As pandemics go, so far this one is relatively mild, that isn't to minimize those who have lost loved ones. The primary groups affected are the otherwise young and healthy which makes this virus scary for many people. The stats aren't perfect, not everyone who gets ill is tested. However, resources are concentrated in the right places, in hospitals and those who become seriously ill. H1N1 is supplanting normal seasonal viruses however, there are components of H1N1 that are shared with normal seasonal virus and why there is some limited protection. The numbers are much higher as flu is monitored every year, not just during high flu season activity. H1N1 can directly infect the lungs of some people, rather than it being a secondary infection. It is a statistically small group but none the less, very serious.

Managing a pandemic is difficult as the distrust is deserved of both government and our health officials. However, this pandemic is the real deal, we haven't had one in a very long time. The reason for urgency in vaccinations is it can very quickly get out of control with large numbers, this is merely phase II of III phase pandemics that occur in waves. H1N1 has been remarkably stable and that is good news. Mutation is bad news.

Since your daughter has an egg allergy by all means, listen to your physician and follow their guidance regarding what can be done for flu protection and when.

To everyone, mostly people get this virus have a mild to moderate reaction that doesn't require hospitalization. If your child, or you, have difficulty breathing, vomiting or diarrhea in with or without fever, it is recommended that is when you seek out medical attention immediately. For parents, watch your children's color, if their fingernails cast a blue tint or their lips look bluish, it means they aren't getting enough oxygen and its time to seek attention.

Dirk van Djik
China did have a program to boost sales of cars with engines smaller than 1.8L (or along those lines). Purchase tax is normally very high, and they did the stimulus by cutting the tax. The number reported would be YoY because that's how China does it. You didn't think sales just shot up on their own, did you?

thanks nanoo x2

The bankruptcy of the International Gold Bullion Exchange happened in 1983. But this is 26 years later with new and improved regulation. Right?

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