CNBC: What Banks are doing with Foreclosures
Submitted by
CalculatedRisk on Mon, 08/31/2009 - 1:01pm (216 comments)
in
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Ceiling cat is watching what banks are doing with foreclosures
Simply ruthless, those delinquents.
C
Basement Cat will take the Bad Banks.
Pigged from previous thread:
Cinco-X, I've turned off editing and display of the glossary temporarily as part of investigating the spike problems we're having. You can still view it from the Glossary menu. Once this is resolved, I hope to restore features (like this, RSS feeds, and the CRVIX). I'll keep you posted.
I believe this is right on. the foreclosure moratoriums gave banks a chance to work in the mod programs (which are pretty much useless except as a can-kicking exercise), and provide some relief to the back office clerks who have to process foreclosures.
Now that they are over, the REO sales will ramp up. And house prices will continue their decline.
OT:
Infrastructure Stocks The Next Bubble of "Mammoth Proportions" Says Altucher: Tech Ticker, Yahoo! Finance
Since folks here are so obses.....er, uh, focused on bubbles
Wonder who gets what caught in the wringer...
.
Gas Producers Face Credit-Line Cuts on Drop in Prices (Update2)
By Edward Klump
Aug. 31 (Bloomberg) -- Natural-gas producers in the U.S. are heading for a day of reckoning with their banks as soon as this week.
At issue are so-called redeterminations, where banks review gas companies’ credit lines periodically and adjust amounts that can be borrowed when fuel reserves securing the debts change in value. The next redeterminations for many producers are in September, and this time around, plunging gas prices will cause credit lines to be slashed, Southwestern Energy Co. Chief Executive Officer Steven Mueller said.
Gas Producers Face Credit-Line Cuts on Drop in Prices (Update2) - Bloomberg.com
As BofA notes, this will lead to a wave of foreclosures later this year and into 2010, however the size of the wave depends on the success of the modification programs (not looking great so far).
Someday this recovery is gonna end.
Looks like sometime in Q1 2010.
We do not hold foreclosed properties off the market.
They should put market in scare quotes. Sure they aren't holding them off, they're just pricing a portion of them as to achieve the same effect as holding them off.
posted this earlier, but now it is on topic.
Feds steady housing market, perhaps permanently - Washington Times
"Someday this recovery is gonna end.
Looks like sometime in Q1 2010. "
Actually the increase in REO sales should start hitting in Sept/Oct. Just in time for the slow fall sales period. A brilliant move on the part of the govt. guess they thought things would be better by now.
At least the Stress Test 19 have been saved, thanks to the stock pump that allowed them to issue new equity.
Green shoots anecdote. One of my cretinous, neo-savage neighbors was just casing my place.
We had a chat. He pretended he was there to buy eggs. I told him I'm leaving town for awhile. It isn't true.
"I guess he wants money to LITERALLY grow on trees, or bushes, or vines
If you think about it, this would heavily distort the market, since the obvious thing for farmers to grow would be things that are directly convertible to cash, not what the market actually needs. LOL."
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and take that 'LOL" as a reference to the absurd convolution of your comment. Everyone knows the Fed earns money the old-fashioned way, they grow the "economy", not silly "things" that will just get eaten.
from a tax payer perspective that is a good thing- more equity at risk before the tax payer gets smacked.
Icepick (profile) wrote on Mon, 8/31/2009 - 5:08 pm
As BofA notes, this will lead to a wave of foreclosures later this year and into 2010, however the size of the wave depends on the success of the modification programs (not looking great so far).
Someday this recovery is gonna end.
Looks like sometime in Q1 2010.
Watch'em try and kick the can down the road until after the mid-terms-
From A-B this morning, (free) registration is required. Luckily mark to market was suspended.
Loan-Value Data Shows Ills Persist - American Banker Article
"The fair value of loans held by the nation's biggest banks continues to decline, indicating that credit markets have not yet turned around and raising serious questions about the effectiveness of the government's efforts to help the industry through the credit crisis.
In fact, among the banks that were stress-tested in May, the difference between carrying values and fair values grew 14.4% from Dec. 31 to June 30 — to $164.4 billion."
"Watch'em try and kick the can down the road until after the mid-terms- "
Could be - a nice $15K home buyer credit would help.
Sen. Corker Wants $15,000 Credit for Home Buyers | sen, wants, buyers - Local News - WTVC NewsChannel 9: Chattanooga News, Weather, Radar, Sports, Lottery
IMO, you can thank Harvard MBAs for the problems articulated in this piece:
How Science Can Create Millions of New Jobs - BusinessWeek
BTW, it's OT-
Hah, red state Republican Sen. Corker wants to double a welfare program!
Oh, it's for the relatively rich, never mind...
Re: Sen. Corker Wants $15,000 Credit for Home Buyers | sen, wants, buyers - Local News - WTVC NewsChannel 9: Chattanooga News, Weather, Radar, Sports, Lottery
This CAN'T be the same Sen Corker who is such a huge proponent of FREE ENTERPRISE and gittin' the govment out of interferin' with the hard-working bidnesses of Merica, is it?
Cinco-X wrote: Watch'em try and kick the can down the road until after the mid-terms-
No chance it will work. No one I meet believes the green shoot talk, and they're not going to care about the NBER declaring an end to the "recession" either. Of course, I'm in Orlando FL, one of the very worst job markets in the country, so our perspective may be a litle skewed....
ghostfaceinvestah (profile) wrote on Mon, 8/31/2009 - 5:15 pm
Could be - a nice $15K home buyer credit would help.
Sen. Corker Wants $15,000 Credit for Home Buyers
Man, I hate it when my party tries to outspend the Dems!
Damn!
I don't know which bank owns the property but there is a REO in my neighborhood that I know is being kept off the market. I wish I had taken a picture of the For Sale sign this past spring and actually looked into the REO agency that was handling the sale. (The Agency even had REO as part of its title.) Anycase the For Sale sign is gone, the house sits empty and once the grass gets nearly waist high someone comes by and cuts it.
Related item - Texas loses more than 32,000 oil and gas jobs - San Antonio Business Journal:
Ceiling Cats? Basement Cats? Nom, nom, nom.
"Wi r in ur banks stealing ur noms."
Banks are pursuing two individually fatal strategies simultaneously. "Extend and pretend" absolutely assumes impaired asset appreciation. Second, accounting principles will persist or even get relaxed. Most here would agree with the first. Most would only question the second. Think about it. How much more can we ignore? Wink, wink. nudge, nudge. Know whot I mean?
Trainwreck (profile) wrote on Mon, 8/31/2009 - 5:20 pm
I don't know which bank owns the property but there is a REO in my neighborhood that I know is being kept off the market. I wish I had taken a picture of the For Sale sign this past spring and actually looked into the REO agency that was handling the sale. (The Agency even had REO as part of its title.) Anycase the For Sale sign is gone, the house sits empty and once the grass gets nearly waist high someone comes by and cuts it.
Anybody strip the copper out yet? If not, then
for you 
Re: How much more can we ignore? Wink, wink. nudge, nudge. Know whot I mean?
Until the emperor is revealed to have no clothes.
Which, based on history, is a pretty long time.
NOTaREALmerican (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Mon, 8/31/2009 - 4:25 pm
Re: How much more can we ignore? Wink, wink. nudge, nudge. Know whot I mean?
Until the emperor is revealed to have no clothes.
Which, based on history, is a pretty long time.
We'll ignore, rationalize, or simply accept on faith, as much as is required to keep from going into that "septic shock" I mentioned earlier today.
edit: probably more like cardiac shock, actually. I'm not a doctor, maybe there are better analogies.
We have one of those down the street; a multi-unit building, converted Victorian-era home. I don't think anyone's in it, but I did notice the grass had gotten really high. Somebody came by and mowed it a few weeks ago, but it's creeping back up.
Here's the ultimate bando nightmare courtesy of our friends in Oakland: a gang taking over part of a derelict apartment building in another gang's territory and just about setting off a gang war. Note that the bank involved refused to take charge of the property.
It was the fear of an imminent gang war that prompted Oakland police and fire officials last week to hastily condemn the rat-infested Amber Tree Gardens apartment complex and evict some 200 tenants.
It all began a week earlier when police Sgt. Fred Mestas, who covers the area, noticed that the block of Fruitvale Avenue adjacent to the complex was covered with South Side Locos' gang graffiti.
Mestas found that the South Side Locos had taken over about a half-dozen apartments in the dilapidated complex at 2555 Foothill Blvd.
"They punched holes through the walls big enough for them to run through in case anything went down and they had to make a fast escape," Mestas said.
Adding to the tension, the complex sits in the middle of territory held by the Norteños - rivals of the South Side Locos.
When Mestas came back the next day and saw that the Locos' tags had been sprayed over by the Norteños, he knew it wouldn't be long before the shooting started.
"It was like a powder keg ready to go off," he said.
That was about the same time that the Fire Department was called to a small mattress fire at the site, where officials found exposed electric wiring and other fire hazards. There were no sprinkler systems or extinguishers.
Fire marshals and about 15 cops showed on Tuesday and declared it uninhabitable. The residents had to immediately leave their homes
"One officer was stopped by a 4-year-old who grabbed his leg as he was about to go into one of the apartments," Mestas said. "The kid told him, 'You don't want to go in there. The rats are really, really big.' "
According to city officials, the complex had basically been a squatters' encampment for the past year; most were illegal immigrants. The owner had declared bankruptcy and the bank so far has refused to take over responsibility for the complex, which also had no running water.
"It wasn't exactly a situation where people felt comfortable calling the police," Mestas said..
Perata recovering from prostate cancer
(yes, that's really the link; story about halfway down)
Re: "septic shock"
I have faith that the party of individual responsibly, free enterprise, and small-responsive-government will be able to fix this after the next election.
"I have faith that the party of individual responsibly, free enterprise, and small-responsive-government will be able to fix this after the next election."
Agreed.
ghostfaceinvestah (profile) wrote on Mon, 8/31/2009 - 5:30 pm reply Ignore user "I have faith that the party of individual responsibly, free enterprise, and small-responsive-government will be able to fix this after the next election."
Agreed.
What party is that? Commies?
"I have faith that the party of individual responsibly, free enterprise, and small-responsive-government will be able to fix this after the next election."
Where can I find this party? It seems almost too good to be true! Can I haz
?
Had to look this one up.
Origins of ceiling cat? - Yahoo! Answers
OK which group of dumbasses are you pimping to there?
Too funny! All this politics stuff is pretty pathetic, isn't it?
Oh well, here's a good Mark to Market article, if anybody is interested: PrudentBear
I think there is a real missed opportunity in not referring to them as "dumasses"
" The owner had declared bankruptcy and the bank so far has refused to take over responsibility for the complex,..."
The owner is officially absolved in BK. The bank wants the profits from its "property", but it wants everyone else to pay for the police, fire, judicial, prison and other systems needed to extract those profits in the 'free world'.
But California is cutting the salaries of all those people, and the bank wants to pay billions in bonuses.
The rats are indeed growing bigger and more numerous.
Mark Cuban sues the SEC
Dewey Asks for Attorneys' Fees in Mark Cuban SEC Case
NOTaREALmerican (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Mon, 8/31/2009 - 2:29 pm
I have faith that the party of individual responsibly, free enterprise, and small-responsive-government will be able to fix this after the next election.
To misquote The Eagles; "We haven't had that spirit here since nineteen forty nine."
But please keep up the drumbeat. My Conservative American Restoration Party platform wins every time a republican or democrat gets disenchanted.
CARP's are slimy bottom feeders. You need a new acronym
Never would have guessed you as a PrudentBear reader...
How does that 'small-responsive-government" party propose to deal with the Oakland gang turf wars?
By "individual responsibility" and "free enterprise" I assume you mean let the bank hire up an armed gang also.
Take a name asswipe (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Mon, 8/31/2009 - 2:45 pm
CARP's are slimy bottom feeders. You need a new acronym
CARP are the only organisms able to survive in the sewer that is American politics and actually improve the water quality.
That's gonna be a real small party.
C
Re: Never would have guessed you as a PrudentBear reader...
Huh, why? Bear = Pessimistic.
Plus, I bought their funds a few years ago. Still waiting for "the bottom to drop out of the market, I'll be a ba-ziliona-air, and take title of most of the United State, and become supreme ruler for life". THEN we'll see some changes!!
From an earlier thread.
Just a note from Florida - Tampa bay area. I was talking to a real estate agent about the possibility of moving - trading like for like essentially so I can get my kids into a better school district. She said she had heard that the banks were holding a lot of foreclosures off the market but the word was locally that they were going to flood the market come November. More price pressure.
I had you pegged as an Optimist!
But with your -2.4 economic and -5.0 Social scores; I guess I should have known...
"She said she had heard that the banks were holding a lot of foreclosures off the market but the word was locally that they were going to flood the market come November."
Might be a bit earlier before some start hitting the market, but before the end of the year, definitely.
i can't believe what an arrogant ass Benmosche is:
AIG Chief Benmosche Says Cuomo ‘Unbelievably Wrong’ on Bonuses - Bloomberg.com
American International Group Inc. Chief Executive Officer Robert Benmosche told employees that New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo was “unbelievably wrong” for drawing attention to staff who got retention bonuses....
“What he did is so unbelievably wrong,” Benmosche said during the Aug. 11 remarks, according to a record obtained by Bloomberg. “He doesn’t deserve to be in government, and he surely shouldn’t be the attorney general of the state of New York. What he did is criminal. You don’t create lynch mobs to go out to people’s homes and do the things he did.”
Re: That's gonna be a real small party.
Probably not a very fun party either. It's been my experience that, usually, the really hot hotties avoid the "individual responsiblity" kinda people.
Lots of reo's here but the public doesn't see them as they are all marketed by local Realtors instead of HUD. They haven't had a Hud listing in months.
Interesting story about how corrupt Bush's SEC really was, beyond the simple incompetence.
For all that the SEC neglected to do, they of course would only pursue frivolous cases against perceived political enemies.
I nominated Robert Benmosche for an ASS WHOOPIN last thread.
I think ghostfaceinvestah is going to help me do the stomping!
"i can't believe what an arrogant ass Benmosche is:"
That guy needs to be removed, immediately, he personifies everything that is wrong with American business today.
Given what I have seen in CA and TX, the banks are holding foreclosures off the market by delaying the foreclosure sales, and frequently the notices of sale and notices of default. I also see the same thing happening with vacant land.
"I nominated Robert Benmosche for an ASS WHOOPIN last thread.
I think ghostfaceinvestah is going to help me do the stomping! "
Yes, I would be fighting for a place in line to give that guy a kick in the nads.
According to the recording, Benmosche told employees that he "had the luxury to say to the government, I'm not going to rush to do this. I'm appalled at how much pressure has been put on all of you to just sell it no matter what, because the Fed wants out, or the Treasury wants out. If they want out in a hurry, they shouldn't have come in the first place."
Study Says World's Stocks Controlled by Select Few
Companies from US, UK and Australia have the most concentrated financial power.
Aug 25, 2009
"A pair of physicists at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich did a physics-based analysis of the world economy as it looked in early 2007. Stefano Battiston and James Glattfelder extracted the information from the tangled yarn that links 24,877 stocks and 106,141 shareholding entities in 48 countries, revealing what they called the "backbone" of each country's financial market. These backbones represented the owners of 80 percent of a country's market capital, yet consisted of remarkably few shareholders."
Study Says World's Stocks Controlled by Select Few | Research - ISNS
This should be an interesting read when it is published. Have to research what a physics based analysis means. Maybe watching the perturbations of the orbits of smaller financial entities and governments? Wonder if they reached the deduction that it is a black hole that is at the center of the world economy?
Re: I had you pegged as an Optimist!
Ah. Probably because I think playing the market casino short-term can lead to good pay-outs, but I'm in the slow 10 year decline camp, personally.
"Yes, I would be fighting for a place in line to give that guy a kick in the nads."
I think one could make a killing on call options for tickets to that event around here.
"According to the recording, Benmosche told employees that he "had the luxury to say to the government, I'm not going to rush to do this. I'm appalled at how much pressure has been put on all of you to just sell it no matter what, because the Fed wants out, or the Treasury wants out. If they want out in a hurry, they shouldn't have come in the first place.""
Believe me, I am preparing letters to send to my congresscritters over this a-hole's remarks.
That company needs to be liquidated, now.
"If they want out in a hurry, they shouldn't have come in the first place."
Boy, that guy really is politically tone deaf.
Basel - in your view, might Benmosche's statement contain a prima facie allegation of criminal conduct by the A-G of New York? And a separate allegation of conduct such that he is unfit to serve in government?
Are there not penalties for published assertions and allegations subsequently revealed as false?
C
"That company needs to be liquidated, now. "
That is not a short list...
Citadel Investment Group LLC said last month it was stopping year-end withdrawals from its two biggest funds after investors sought to take out $1.2 billion, or 12 percent of assets.
Magnetar Capital LLC took similar action after its largest fund lost 30 percent of its value in the year through November.
Cerberus Capital Management LP last month limited redemptions from a hedge fund that lost 16 percent of its value.
Hedge Funds Will Be Ruined by Withdrawal Limits: Matthew Lynn - Bloomberg.com
Extend and pretend... Ponzi panic...
@ EX. Costs
They used to call it "interlocking directorates"; "conglomerates" of "robber barons"; "oligarchy" is in vogue. 3 people colluding well at the poker table will get all the money from the other 7 'honest' individual suckers eventually, unless they do something...
"I have faith that the party of individual responsibly, free enterprise, and small-responsive-government will be able to fix this after the next election."
How can a small government be responsive - with what? I think you must mean a small unresponsive government.
All these investment groups exercising withdrawal limitations and we (me) bitch about China being a one way street. Methinks there is a lot less liquidity out there than we are being told.
HomeGnome (homepage, profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Mon, 8/31/2009 - 4:45 pm
Never would have guessed you as a PrudentBear reader...
I used to read that and safehaven religiously. I stopped when I realized I was reading them religiously. I blame Prechter actually, and his "Conquer the Crash", for pulling me out of my temporary belief in glod. Just another stage on the grief/loss train.
not at all familiar with the slander laws in NY, but generally, an individual can pretty much say anything about an elected official, provided there's no actual malice involved.
Everybody out there using blow. BE CAREFUL it could be laced with dangerous medicine. Make sure you check with your dealer and snort all organic.
Yahoo! 404 - Page Not Found
Benmosche will find his villa in Croatia not much of a hideout.
But you can say whatever you want (including a suggestion that a CEO be kicked repeatedly in the groin) unless you KNOW he doesn't deserve it for a fact (X) and are not using malice (iffy).
Re: How can a small government be responsive - with what?
I was being snarky. But, that's what one of my Republican friends always says is the ultimate "goal" of the Republican Party; that, and balancing the budget (which I forgot to put in there).
I think he looks at this goal the same way the commie believers talked about the next 5-year-plans. Dumbasses are dumbasses, only the details change.
The other REALLY funny thing about this guy (and his wife) - who are both athiests - will end a losing argument with "I choose to believe otherwise". I always - internally - count this as a victory.
I wonder how much the banks have increased the size of their losses (on the not-yet-foreclosed homes) by their delays. I imagine the houses have either been empty and poorly maintained, or else occupied by non-paying tenants. Either way, losses get worse.
Unless house prices head upwards before the bank has to sell them...(not holding my breath)
still very much out of control
ok, which is it? The FIRE economy, or the CA wildfires?
Government should be rare and unfortunate but not unavailable.
Basel - many thanks. Actual malice is quite a high standard. Where I come from I think there's more come-back from the slandered / libelled. Memory is hazy but I seem to recall something along the lines of casual disregard.
C
NOTaREALmerican (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Mon, 8/31/2009 - 5:11 pm
The other REALLY funny thing about this guy (and his wife) - who are both athiests - will end a losing argument with "I choose to believe otherwise". I always - internally - count this as a victory.
Solipsism ftw.
"My beliefs do not require them to" - Morpheus
The banks are playing with the books, but cash flows do not lie.
I am not sure what the long term impact will be of learning about "Ceiling cat".
Cerberus Capital Management LP last month limited redemptions from a hedge fund that lost 16 percent of its value.
BankRun v2009
"ok, which is it? The FIRE economy, or the CA wildfires? "
Both, in their demented ways, seek to increase the demand for housing.
Tainted Cocaine
Finally! An explanation for the rally in the Dow that makes sense!
That, as a regulator, it's a toss-up whether ceiling cat or OTC has a better track record to date?
C
Re: Solipsism
Great word. Used a surprising amount of times on the net (had to go look it up!).
Boeing 787 foulups update:
"Boeing Commercial Airplanes President and CEO Scott Carson will be replaced by Jim Albaugh, head of Boeing's defense division.
Carson will retire from the company at the end of the year, the company said Monday afternoon."
You fired!
NOTaREALmerican (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Mon, 8/31/2009 - 5:22 pm
Re: Solipsism
Great word. Used a surprising amount of times on the net (had to go look it up!).
Glad to be of service! Nothing like some good vernacular exercise to make folks confuse you with a member of the intelligentsia
To reiterate, publishing a wild falsehood with actual malice is protected speech.
UNLESS the publisher/speaker KNEW it was false.
yogi, you can't get to actual malice without actual knowledge of the falsity.
"Knew" is on occasion expanded to "should have known" or employed a "reckless disregard" for the "truth".
Without principal reductions this loan modification program is doomed to fail. People can't afford the houses they bought at bubble prices. Those that can afford those houses are realizing they are crazy for paying on an underwater asset that will be underwater for 10 years or more. Foreclosure is a flight to financial safety for people.
Solipsism rolls off the tongue better than The Dunning–Kruger effect
Sure you can. I have actual malice towards Paulson and Geithner. If I say they are lying crooks who should be under indictment, I don't have a clue whether that's literally true, even under my own conception of what the relevant law should be regarding public officials.
I can still say it under the First Amendment.
At one time, you couldn't call all the King's men crooks even if you watched them break in and steal the glod.
A reckless disregard of the truth can reach the level of actual knowledge in the case of a private person being defamed. I'm not so sure that reckless disregard would be sufficient in the case of a public figure, e.g., AG Cuomo.
Sportsfan, does the infamous defamation case against the blogger by the skank...er uhm, blonde vogue model, carry weight?
Regarding an extended/expanded home buyers credit a la Corker's $15k ...
Since the US government now owns or insures the mortgages on most of the homes that have mortgages, offering a credit is just good business. A large part of the credit, perhaps even more than 100% due to leveraging the down payment, will be included in the selling price, and for an REO or Short Sale that's the government's money that is being saved.
Plus, the neighborhood's value is preserved, and most of those homes are also "owned" by the government through mortgages or mortgage insurance.
This is what happens when the "seller" (the entity with money at risk) is a monopoly.
I thought the issue was whether the statement would get you convicted of libel, not whether you're making wild ass statements about people you just don't like.
Yeah, and dumping the bogus mods off on FNM & FRE.
All these investment groups exercising withdrawal limitations and we (me) bitch about China being a one way street. Methinks there is a lot less liquidity out there than we are being told.
Note that the story was last updated on January 5, 2009. There were no green shoots then so I'm sure things are much better now.
/ snark
I still think Mr. Benmosche deserves a good ASS STOMPING!
Gotta go
Later
One issue is whether making wild-ass statements about people you just don't like can get you convicted of, or liable for damages in, libel or slander.
In recognition of the need for boot stomping.
YouTube - Nancy Sinatra - These Boots Are Made For Walking (1966)
later, too.
For the rain delay in todays doom, here's some good gloom to read: The Automatic Earth: August 30 2009: Tickle your fancy
"Watch'em try and kick the can down the road until after the mid-terms- Could be - a nice $15K home buyer credit would help."
........we'll never get thru THIS phase if they keep extending it.
"One issue is whether making wild-ass statements about people you just don't like can get you convicted of, or liable for damages in, libel or slander.
...........Corker obviously has a few screws loose re. a $15K credit (you mean like THAT?) and Benmosche talks like a common street thug who used to break fingers for a living in a past life.
BTW, One Helluva second half recovery!..........one day this war's going to end?.............not in THIS decade!
And for Barack Obama:
YouTube - The Four Seasons - Walk Like A Man
"I still think Mr. Benmosche deserves a good ASS STOMPING! "
Agreed.
.....he's feeling much better since being on vacation.
Fed Chief Says Insurance Giant Acted Irresponsibly - NY Times
"Mr. Bernanke replied that nothing had made him more angry during the months of the sprawling financial crisis than the episode involving the insurance giant that has reported astronomical losses and has been given financial lifelines worth billions of dollars."
I guess Bernanke is no longer angry, or not angry enough to demand that the company be liquidated.
Yes, a good swift kick in the shorts for Mr. Benmosche. Or perhaps a burning in effigy...a time-honored method of political speech.
So BofA is not holding REOs off the market. Let's test this. Walk in to your local BofA branch, tell them you're a RRE investor and ask to see their REO list. Compare to MLS listings. Until somebody tells me they've done it and the lists substantially match, I'm skeptical.
Benmosche is just getting warmed up as a human nightmare for those who appointed him, namely the Obama Administration.
He's totally tone deaf to the political situation of AIG as the all-time most expensive, revolting ward of any government, ever.
In fact, he's tone deaf to anything that doesn't fall between his own two ears.
What a disaster.
Regarding the comments about Cuomo, Benmosche was spot on. Cuomo is a dangerous demagogue. I wouldn't vote for guy to be dogshit collector.
Well the gods/goddesses of computerdom have let me back on, however
temporarily.
Hi, Icepick; I'm on Merritt Island. Enjoying the storms?
reo's are getting sold. about a billion of them have sold here in vegas as i stood by with my hands in my pockets. lots of <100k houses sold in the 89119 zip.
hope this link works -- recently sold houses on zillow in 89119 where i am sorta looking to buy
Las Vegas, NV 89119 Real Estate & Las Vegas Homes for Sale - Zillow
nihilist - the question isn't how many are getting sold, it's how many are getting listed.
a credit union just got closed in CA. Kaiser Lakeside Credit Union.
Cuomo is a dangerous demagogue.
Who else is gonna take on Wall Street? Benmosche's remarks are ludicrous, but why start holding assholes accountable now, when the recession is clearly over?
/snark
feckless -- i'm not sure that distinction is important when the product is flying off the shelf. it feels bubble again around here again. universal confidence in the coming gains in real estate investing...
SneeringNihilist,
If you want to over exaggerate, trillion is the new billion.
m -- sorry. let me try again. infinity reo's have sold here in 89119 recently! better?
I don't know if anyone here is tracking credit unions as closely as banks. I wish someone was.
They have a parallel system insured by the NCUA.
I do know that many credit unions are holding whole mortgages in CA, FL, and AZ, and they got dinged for losses by one of the central credit unions last year.
The foreclosure process is slowing down more and more in
Florida. They have to get foreclosed on before you sell them!!
A friend of mine moved into a foreclosure of her daughter's.
She hoped to live there for free for a few months. It's been a couple
of months already and the final summary judgment hasn't been scheduled.
Then there's the sale. Maybe 4-6 months after that. She may get
a year's free rent out of it. You can't tell me they want these properties
back.
Then her other daughter moved out of a place months ago. It's been
over 2 years with no defense at all & nothing is happening.
At some point all these anecdotes turn into a trend.
I'm not sure people would be catching all these knives if they knew how many more have yet to fall. I still believe there's a vast reservoir of unlisted REOs being held off the market, or available only privately.
sneering,
Now your just being rediculous.
Hey, Dawg, if you are there, is California about to burn down on
top of everything else?
feck -- i agree with you. however, what is available now is being snapped up now. bear rally.
People who live in hurricane zones should not tempt the weather gods. Just sayin, Liz.
It is taking an incredibly long time to load a comment.
I just had a bad thought. What if that scenario, defaulting on the house and living there free until forced to move, is why the current frenzy of buyers are all jumping in? Buy with free money, pay for a very months and then squat for a year?
/shiver
"Cuomo is a dangerous demagogue. I wouldn't vote for guy to be dogshit collector. "
You need people like this to clean up Wall Street after a credit collapse. Do you ever wonder why Wall Street hated Spitzer?
sneering,...... looking at the homes you linked, my first thought was "how can someone spend a DIME for a home when they're stacked three feet from the neighbors house?" There is NO property outside of what the house sits on. Park your car in the driveway? Nope - no driveway long enough to park on.
Nope.
Cuomo better not take any hikes in Appalachia, wink wink.
Nobody buying I know has that motive WestSac. At least in
South Florida, it is incredibly hard to get a loan. And the lenders
are so difficult to work with, either short sale or not, that people
are only interested in super bargains.
Yep, I have been working the trustee sales circuit heavily and there is a mountain building in between Notice of Sale & the Trustee Sale - Postponements GALORE! When that logjam breaks, stand back because it's gonna vaporize values everywhere.
lawyerliz (profile) wrote on Mon, 8/31/2009 - 4:42 pm
Hey, Dawg, if you are there, is California about to burn down on
top of everything else?
Nope. The "big" fire is so far threatening "Acton" which is small. It would burn out to the north before threatening any serious habitation. It would be a week before it threatened anything to the west.
There are strange humans that like it that way, BSR.
Others of us like the dirt...
How long do you think, bearly?
Anybody know if Capmark bought a failed bank in Utah? My mom
had a nice juicy 5.5% CD redeemed just recently.
Also anybody know what nova wanted?
If I dissapear, it's 'cuz another strong line of storms is approaching.
We've had a few brush fires started by lightning, but it's so wet, it
just smolders a bit in a small area.
So why do I have to pay my taxes to put out some fire in California? Why can't all those John Wayne wannabes just man up and put out their own fires? Oh, and I guess they want us to feed and clothe them also? Oh boo hoo, my McMansion burnt down.
Why does it say 11 ignored comments on this page?
I never ignore anybody. These are other people ignoring
me? Other people ignoring other people and/or me?
bsr -- you must missed the horse properties on the lower left. i have a friend that lives there but that is not where i'm looking. near there, however, many of the lots are over 6,000 sq feet. the houses are older so they usually come in around 1,400 sq ft or so all single story. sure it's no 40 acre spread on the river(working on that too) but it's something. cars fit on all the driveways. the hoods have actual sidewalks. etc...
Nonsense. You need ethical people to do that, you don't need power-hungry politicians like Cuomo or Spitzer. I don't trust either one of them to actually be impartial prosecutors, and with lots of good reason.
I still believe there's a vast reservoir of unlisted REOs being held off the market, or available only privately.
I think you need to remove your
There is a difference between foreclosures in process (Trustee Sale has not yet occurred), and REOs (Trustee sale was conducted & servicer submitted highest bid, taking the deed to the propety)
Again, it pains me to agree with Bank of America on almost anything, but there is almost certainly a very simple reason that they would not immediately list an REO of theirs for sale. Reasons such as the property is subject to a statuatory redemption period. Or it requires a repair to be granted a permit for occupancy by the municipality. What other reason do you think they would delay the liquidation? Really, I'd love to know.
I found out yogi had been put on ignore. Sorry yogster if I
haven't replied to something you said. Must have mistakenly
pushed a button.
'Extend and pretend ' comes to mind! Not good?
I read backwards up the thread and for many a post I thought that
Bernosche was a misspelled Bernake.
More green shoots...Florida has become 19th state to borrow money to keep unemployment benefits flowing and may borrow over $1 billion by EOY.
A mere pittance.
Shnaps, other reasons include waiting for government programs and expecting market conditions to improve. Maybe not intentional behavior, but certainly short-sighted.
LL -
FDIC itself took over MagnetBank in SLC in Jan 09 and Cache Valley Bank took over AmericaWest Bank recently. Only two I see in UT in 09.
California's current UI trust fund balance: $(2,111,398,307.07)
bearly: What area of the country?
None of the properties I've been involved with have been fixed up or had
anything done to them prior to somebody signing the sales contract.
Ditto cos.
Except mowing the excessively high
s.
Meaning $2B in the hole?
Also, Shnaps, there has always been a disconnect between what I find on the MLS and the REOs on RealtyTrac.
(edit) "always" = since 2007, when I started paying attention.
Yes, over $2B in the hole and growing.
No problem: just issue the jobless IOUs.
So they can pay their state taxes with money that the state doesn't have.
hey, is Unemployment taxable?
California's current UI trust fund balance: $(2,111,398,307.07).
Now, I call that a huge lack of trust.
It sure is.
California's current UI trust fund balance: $(2,111,398,307.07).
Why bother even tracking the number if it is 2 billion in the red and speeding up? Is someone actually expecting to get the balance to go to zero or even black again?
Yep, JP.
First $2,400 of Unemployment Benefits Tax Free for 2009
(sorry for the dbl post)
a credit union just got closed in CA. Kaiser Lakeside Credit Union.
It's BFM!
Waiting for government programs on REO properties? Like what? I haven't heard a peep on any such a thing. Have you?
Expecting market conditions to improve, huh? Maybe if the servicer also owned the whole loan. Then, perhaps you could consider doing such a thing
, however, 99% of REOs owe their worth to a trust, and the PSAs specifiy there cannot be any disparate treatment. That would be a sure-fire way to set off tranche warfare, the likes of which the servicer would be killed with the first shot.
dupe.
The Federal government is loaning California the money to continue UI payments.
Hopefully, they will not want that money back, or it will come out of the hide of every business still operating in the state.
hmmm, what would happen if those 40,000 foreclosures in Palm Beach
county all hit the mkt at the same time?
I was checking Trulia and this "gated community" where prices started at
7 or 800k has at least one foreclosure for sale and one regular house. For
much less than this.
They had pictures, and I was struck by the lack of architectural features.
The high ceilings and big rooms cried out for crown moldings and wainscotting
and tray ceilings, and they just weren't there. The foreclosure had very intricate
and stupid window treatments. Also, these lots were huge, and the developer
had just knocked down the trees and they had very measelly plantings. My
son's friend used to go boar hunting in there. The houses were well kept.
If you red walls (an interesting red that I rather liked, tho I don't know if I'd want
to live with it).
oh man, i am having serious connectivity issues. i'm pretty sure that a bad internet connection is worse than hell. pretty sure about that.
The Federal government is loaning California the money to continue UI payments.
Why not just go straight to the Chinese and cut out the middle man? Better yet, have you FDI come in through Chinese families sending money to their poor CA Chinese relatives!
Meee tooo sneering, me too.
In CA - UI is not taxable by the state. Effective 2009, the first $2400 of UI is not taxed by the fed; anything above that is fed taxable. (Until this year ALL UI was fed taxable.)
me three...
If you red walls (an interesting red that I rather liked, tho I don't know if I'd want
to live with it).
I note that the Chinese consider red a lucky color.
Yeah, I once had a secy for a week, and my secy who had quit got fired
from her new job right away, so I let the one weeker go and said I'd write
her a nice referral and she found a new job right away.
Anyway, over a year later she lost that second job, and I got told I
had to shell out some money for unemployment, and it wasn't 10 bucks
either. I said, but, but, but, she got another job right away!!! Turned
out she got a 3rd job pretty quickly so the problem went away. Still
I wonder how long this liability lasts.
"What other reason do you think they would delay the liquidation? Really, I'd love to know. "
Liz just nailed it. If they flood the market with these things, it tanks again.
Still, if you get something you could've never afforded for 45k to 145k, and
it goes down some more, and you bought it to live in and you can
afford it, who cares?
Just discovered that there is a Psalm for the poor smucks who save their money and pay taxes.
Those who hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of my head; Those who would destroy me are powerful, being wrongfully my enemies; What I did not steal, I then have to restore.
Psalm 69:4
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
LL,
Colorado state, As I recall an employee builds reserves in an employers account from the time they are employed. If they have a short employment term and then collect and use up the small amount then they go back to the previous employer (You) until that amount is used up or satisfies the claim. It always mad me mad especially if they quit on their own.
It's getting so I can play a couple of hands of hearts before my
comment posts.
Pavlovian Obeisance
juice
Ah, one of my favorites passages of scripture for these times would have to be Isaiah 5:9
The Lord Almighty has declared in my hearing;
"Surely the great houses will become desolate,
the fine mansions left without occupants."
Mathew 7
@LBD: It always mad me mad especially if they quit on their own.
In most states, if a worker resigns, it's usually easy for the employer to contest any claims filed by that worker for UI benefits. I hadnt heard that this has changed. Has it?
Those 57 and over know they can go on medicare shortly and who
cares about anybody else. Perhaps what they really fear is the gov't
socialistic money going to somebody else, like a kid who needs
vaccinations.
Realtyrac doesnt track REOs.
My favorite is Santa 12:25...
Ho! Ho! Ho!
Avl Dao,
The employee quit his job with me. The next employer fired him and he had a valid claim. He did not last long on that job and used the amount in that employers account and the the state went into mine. I had no say in it. They did not change my experience factor (rate discount) as I did not fire him.
I let her go 'cause it's hard to train a typist into a legal secy.
and my old secy came back. I felt a bit guilty she was a nice
person, and appeared able to learn. Still, one job down the line?
Liz,
Mrs. Gnome made GnomeMade Blueberry Muffins yesterday with GnomeGrown blueberries.
Delicious.
Liz, is this happening regularly for you? Right now?
Anyone else?
I'm not finding it to be slow right now at all. And the system seems to be whistling right along.
Edit: hmmm... it is taking a little while to post.
I made blueberry pancakes yesterday.
Roasted duck (true the kind that comes froze in a
plastic package), salad, mixed veggies, and lot fat ice
cream.
LL,
The word fair is not in the rule book when you are the business. I learned a big lesson with workman's comp that cost me when a employee got hit on a test drive public street and the state had a no fault insurance law. Exemption to the law was work comp claims.
Me too, kcoop.
koop, hoocoodanode's running faster than greased
Save to post seems to be about 5-7 seconds
*edit 16seconds to post
Shnaps - some foreclosure sales go "back to benefactor" then never seem to make it to MLS.
Don't know why.
Perhaps banks make deals with the occupants after foreclosure? Is that even possible?
Slow here too.
Got a little hitch here too Ken.
HomeGnome,
I have a guard Gnome for my garden works great, no animal thefts this year!
That will come as a surprise to RealtyTrac.
Thefts OF animals, Ben? Or thefts BY animals? Or thefts OF animals BY animals?
Although RealtyTrac seems to be riddled with errors, also.
ghostfaceinvestah (profile) wrote on Mon, 8/31/2009 - 5:30 pm reply Ignore user "I have faith that the party of individual responsibly, free enterprise, and small-responsive-government will be able to fix this after the next election."
Agreed.
What party is that? Commies?
Didn't they have that Party in Iceland? Seems like it would fit the bill - small, check - free enterprise, check - responsive, check - individual responsiblitity, mmmm? not sure.
Go to Google Maps and fly over the Pentagon and think of a small government that will put that thing in harness. Best of Luck With That. If you want a war department that can kick the ass of any combination of our opponents then a small government may be hard to obtain. One can always wish for Ponys.
Concur, squid.
Veggie thefts, We got lots of wild life here squirrels, opossum, raccoons, rabbits, deer, birds.
"Cuomo is a dangerous demagogue. I wouldn't vote for guy to be dogshit collector. "
Sounds like the proper job description take on Wall Street. Yes, bring Spitzer back.
RealtyTrac data is all sorts of garbage, and they don't exactly deny it. Sure, there are enough left over cheeseburgers to sate the Carlton-Sheets-acolyte-raccoons who use it for their purposes, but for analytic consumption, it's bound to give you the runs. Its just not clean enough to for trying to do something like reconcile a particular bank's REO inventory.
From their site : RealtyTrac does not guarantee the accuracy of the Content and advises you independently to verify the accuracy of the information provided. We make no guarantee, whether express or implied, that you will find a real estate listing that meets your specifications. In addition, RealtyTrac may make changes and improvements to the Content at any time. RealtyTrac makes no representation or warranty as to the quality or qualification of any Service Provider referred to Member, and is not responsible or liable for any acts or omissions created or performed by such Service Providers.
"According to the recording, Benmosche told employees that he 'had the luxury to say to the government, I'm not going to rush to do this. I'm appalled at how much pressure has been put on all of you to just sell it no matter what, because the Fed wants out, or the Treasury wants out. If they want out in a hurry, they shouldn't have come in the first place.'"
If that's his attitude, then we'll take the money back right now. If AIG/Benmosche can't pay it all back, right now, then it gets carved up into tiny pieces and sold in a Resolution Trust on our time, not on his. If too big to fail means take 300 billion of taxpayer money, then pontificate about how the government was in too much of a rush to help you, then you become a lot of pieces that are too little to prop up. And Benmosche loses his job, and you send enforcement to see just how good he and AIG management were about their disclosures.
Personally, if I were Obama & Geithner, he and AIG would be carved into a 2000 puzzle piece puzzle and sold off, bit by bit, as a cannon shot across the bow of the TBTF bunch. If the government is going to take a loss, it can be on its terms, and fat mouths like Benmosche can get rendered along with the rest of the AIG lard-asses.
Just venting; I know it won't happen. But if he keeps opening his yap and the Commercial Real Estate makes AIG beg for more in 6 months, I think Benmosche will be sleeping with Jimmy Hoffa.
squid, on extremely rare occasions, the servicer might give the occupant some sort of do-over, but we are talking like 1 in 10,000 - if that.
The bank could have a buyer already lined up, no need to list it, just turn around and sell it with a clean title, avoid the realtor comp. People submit bids on properties before they go REO all the time.
"Personally, if I were Obama & Geithner, he and AIG would be carved into a 2000 puzzle piece puzzle and sold off, bit by bit, as a cannon shot across the bow of the TBTF bunch. If the government is going to take a loss, it can be on its terms, and fat mouths like Benmosche can get rendered along with the rest of the AIG lard-asses."
Amen. I notice there is an article in the WSJ online about the town halls, how people are getting angry, and not just about healthcare.
Situations like this one at AIG are not helping. Politically, one of the TBTF companies needs to be an example of. If I were BHO, I would pick one, with AIG being a good candidate, and just tear them a new one. He has got to realize the people want blood, it is an instinctual desire.
"Regarding the comments about Cuomo, Benmosche was spot on. Cuomo is a dangerous demagogue. I wouldn't vote for guy to be dogshit collector."
The cognitive dissidence is strong in this one.
Sorry, Liz, just saw the comment. We lost power a couple of times, so yes, I enjoyed the storms. How'd you like the launch the other night? I went over to catch it in person. Hadn't done that in years and I'm glad I did. I think only six are left.
Liz, one of my Mom's neighbors just got evicted two weeks ago as the house reveerted back to CountryWide ownership. Now the county (Orange) has put a notice up in the front yard telling CW to mow the grass and pick up the trash or else. So as long as the storms keep rolling through we WILL have green shoots in Central Florida's RE market!
I've done this for a few different spots in So. Cal. , well not walk into a branch, I just downloaded trustee sales (not just BofA) from foreclosureradar and matched the APN's with MLS data.
If you give the servicer any sort of reasonable "float" for the pre-list phase (a few months) you will see that the masses of REO "shadow inventory" are a myth.
Foreclosures are a matter of public record. It would be easy for the people who believe in shadow inventory REOs to prove their point but they can't. I find many cant put large numbers they hear into context of the overall market. Others dont actually have very reliable data and are just believing some of the more dramatic prone bloggers regarding shadow REO inventory.
Shadow inventory are the huge numbers of homes in default but not being foreclosed on. Once they are foreclosed on they get on the market relatively quickly.