This was pigged:

Did anyone make any progress on investigating the validity of the 19% drop in food consumption?
1. Is that in dollars? Euros? or is it by weight or by volume?
2. What's the time period involve?
3. Is that worldwide or US?
4. Is that extrapolated from a narrow study by some PhD, or is it from a federal agency survey? Margins of Errors?

So many questions....

Charge offs are going higher just as the UE rate will.

Re; Charge-offs

Last time I checked..months ago,...standard bank policy was still pursue credit cardholders for balances that had been charged off. It was a booming cottage industry to sell the rights to pursue these balances to 3rd parties who operate at the edge of laws on consumer harrassment....and who agree to split whatever they can get via liens and garnishments, etc, with the credit card company.

I think the delayed new credit card regs are suppose to mildly impact this once they go into effect in 2010?

Very interesting 9th Circuit En Banc opinion of what the feds can do. or not do, when seizing computers or other digital evidence.

It changes "Plain sight" and if the gov forensics people find anything that was not covered by the warrant then they can not tell the invesitigators it exists.

"The government’s search protocol must be designed to uncover only the
information for which it has probable cause, and only that information may
be examined by the case agents"

They like to seize, fish, and then build the case.

http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2009/08/26/05-10067eb.pdf

Re: that would be me....macro-econ smartypants, functionally retarded investor

HA!!! too funny.

Recent article on credit cards:

Personal Finance: Good news and bad on credit card reforms - Sacramento Business, Housing Market News | Sacramento Bee

I've generally been the same as an investor, and have been like a moth to light with nat gas for quite some time. But I'll happily double down if we see the low 2s. Nat gas really should be the best commodity to hold, even if you don't like the larger asset class.

Are they treating charge offs as they are foreclosures? Keeping them on their books longer to improve their positions on paper

nova (homepage, profile) wrote on Mon, 8/31/2009 - 1:56 pm

They like to seize, fish, and then build the case.

Thanks for the link!

It will be very unpopular with the police. Seize, fish and then charge is all they know how to do since the 4th amendment was repealed. I imagine we'll hear how it'll cause the a mushroom cloud over an American city and benefit only baby rapers and narco-terrorists before long.

Took me over two years and multiple phone calls to close a Chase acct.
And I still get the 'checks' in the mail from time to time...

chief risk dude

---this begs to be someones' handle...

PAGING Kcoop!

And I still get the 'checks' in the mail from time to time...

Like a good geek, I read all the fine print on the Chase Accts: They reserve the right to send you those promos; usage of any promo check constitutes reactivation of the accct.
And that goes also..maybe... even for any vendor (gym membership fee, etc) u authorized to do an automatic pmt from said account unless u can show in writing where u followed the vendor's procedures to cease auto pmts from the credit card.

If a creditor is hassling you, take a look at the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act; understanding this might help. (Wikipedia link)

@ghost

+1

Here is some data from the Visa earnings call a few weeks back: Highlights from the Visa Quarterly Earnings Call - Prepaid

I took a closer look at the graphic that goes along with
Personal Finance: Good news and bad on credit card reforms - Sacramento Business, Housing Market News | Sacramento Bee

and came to a realization. This graphic, based on TransUnion data, indicates that average CC debt has been essentially flat during the last year. BUT, if there have been 10% chargeoff in the last year, that means the CC debt for those who haven't bailed has, on average, increased by 10% over the last year.

As a consumer, why go Visa pre-pay as you go instead of just Debit ?? Or is that considered the same thing since my Debit card has a MC logo on it ??

GenY is behind, but probably due to their work ethic

Re: The implications of "Pay-As-You-Go" en masse by US households are enormous

This would also prove (or disprove) the talk about a "new savings mentality" amongst the population. I've always been of the opinion that there is no "new savings mentality", only fear showing up as reduced spending.

But, if people actually started using pre-paid cards en-mass, that would be significant. Personally, I've never heard anybody at work mention these things (and most of the people I work with are up-to-their-eyeballs in debt).

I generally put as much stock in "self-reporting" of incomes as I do on the accuracy of self-reporting by guys of certain body-part sizes.
LOL.

I generally put as much stock in "self-reporting" of incomes as I do on the accuracy of self-reporting by guys of certain body-part sizes.
LOL.

I have the largest big toe of anyone in this forum.

Avl Dao (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Mon, 8/31/2009 - 2:38 pm

I generally put as much stock in "self-reporting" of incomes as I do on the accuracy of self-reporting by guys of certain body-part sizes.
LOL.

Hey! I always tell the truth......................about my income anyway

"This would also prove (or disprove) the talk about a "new savings mentality"

This is the kind of conventional wisdom which could only emerge among folks in the 99th income percentile who spend their time primarily with other folks in the 99th income percentile. You don’t have to look at the data (mortgage delinquencies, foreclosures, credit card defaults, bankruptcies) all that hard to see a very different picture. In fact, it is almost certainly true that the savings rate for 99% of the US population is negative.

Guest Post: “The Savings Rate Has Recovered…if You Ignore the Bottom 99%” « naked capitalism 

I dunno...this "pay-as-you-go" stuff sounds confusing.

It's in the book. It's only one page long. The advice is priceless and the book is free.

terry: how does prepaid show up to the merchant (i.e. credit, debit, or its own category)?

CR the stress test had the loss assumption of 9.1% over a two year period or eight quarters....we have
had already two quarters and the chargeoffs have been no where near the assumptions.In fact the big
four (CIti ,JP,BAC.Wells) are 23 billion under the loss assumptions.Each quarter that goes by the
differential will get greater unless we see greater weakness in the economy but you yourself have
said Jobless Claims have peaked. SO.....when you keep quoting the stress test you really need to
talk about the loss assumptions not the Macro assumptions because it is the losses that count....

brodero, didnt the FASB rule relaxations render "loss assumptions" a bit meaningless...as in they dont have to be reported, booked or recognized nowadays in the manner they had to in the past?

Take a name asswipe (profile) wrote on Mon, 8/31/2009 - 2:41 pm
This is the kind of conventional wisdom which could only emerge among folks in the 99th income percentile who spend their time primarily with other folks in the 99th income percentile. You don’t have to look at the data (mortgage delinquencies, foreclosures, credit card defaults, bankruptcies) all that hard to see a very different picture. In fact, it is almost certainly true that the savings rate for 99% of the US population is negative.

Nice link, asswipe-

This is the kind of conventional wisdom which could only emerge among folks in the 99th income percentile who spend their time primarily with other folks in the 99th income percentile.
Eh, that's a bit harsh? Even by my rough-edged standards..LOL.
That meme of a 7% bump-up in savings has gathered as much steam as the lie...eh, I mean, "meme" about Green Shoots and a full recovery (except for those who aint got a job, right).
I do agree that the averaging in, of the hyper-wealthy, into the savings & debt data has really messed things up. Only lately has data emerged that looks at debt & savings by income decile or quintile.

I do agree that the averaging in, of the hyper-wealthy, into the savings & debt data has really messed things up. Only lately has data emerged that looks at debt & savings by income decile or quintile.

I, personally, can't see how people sinking a larger portion of their disposable income into debt servicing is somehow a 'good news' story. This metric says nothing about the financial health of these people, only how much of their money is not going to consumption.

For all we know, they're buying less 'stuff', putting more money towards debt, and still ending up further in the hole.

noob goldberg (profile) wrote on Mon, 8/31/2009 - 2:56 pm
I, personally, can't see how people sinking a larger portion of their disposable income into debt servicing is somehow a 'good news' story. This metric says nothing about the financial health of these people, only how much of their money is not going to consumption.

I thought the meme was that they were actually saving, not just paying off debt. No?

i'll take 40 ....you get 5...I've already spotted you 11 points....

Why is my bank paying me a little percentage on my checking account when I use my debit card if I will hit charge instead of debit? My thinking is they get to hold on to my money maybe 12 to 24 hrs longer or visa versa.

What was that whooshing sound as the pre-market opened at 3PM? Did the post-lunch pump aggravate Timmy's carpal tunnel problems?

Not sure who that was directed to; I myself am no conspiracy theorist. Geithner & Obama have been very candid & clear about their priorities and goals: 1) getting the major banks healthy again; 2) providing gov't stimulus and incentives to encourage greater private sector investment into US banks; 3) that credit (not hard work or talent) is the lifeblood of the American Economy.

In America, one doesnt need to hide much or lie anymore (poor Nixon, he was 3 decades too early); telling the truth publicly is sufficient cuz u can count on the media's and public's "cognitive dissonance" to kick in at the mention of anything they dont want to hear (they simply wont hear it).

It's like reading BLS press releases where they expressly give the adjusted (bogus algorithm'd) data and then expressly say "the actual number is" a mere 3 paragraphs later, knowing few will ever read that far or quote the "actual number".

Nonetheless, bank "losses" in 2009 are horribly under-reported under the relaxed FASB rules...even if BAC does mushroom to 40.

Re: i'll take 40 ....you get 5...I've already spotted you 11 points....

It'll agree with YOUR number, but only because TPTB need BofA at 40 and will do anything to get it there, including giving it free money and allowing it to use brand-new accounting rules to ensure it "looks GREAT".

It's entirely different now.

(TPTB = The Powers That Be)

Issuing banks get paid interchange fees on both credit and debit - the fees are lower on debit (again, due the Wal-Mart settlement) and that is why some banks charge cardholders for PIN debit.

I think you'll find that in the BIG macro economic world - which revolves around the magic of GDP - that "savings" is - basically means - "everything else" (that which they can't account for).

Agreed. In good times, the savings rate does not adjust for changes in the value of capital, like stocks and homes. It also doesn't account for these changes during bad times, either.

(personal disposable income) - (personal consumption expenditure)

So, in good times, the value of your home and your 401k skyrockets and you spend more of your income on "stuff", which makes the savings rate look miserable. In bad times, when the value of the 401K and home plummet, you cut back and 'save' more, even though you're further in the hole.

" brodero (profile) wrote on Mon, 8/31/2009 - 12:00 pm

* reply
* Ignore user

i'll take 40 ....you get 5...I've already spotted you 11 points...."

Is that you Dick Bovine posting here?

"In America, one doesnt need to hide much or lie anymore (poor Nixon, he was 3 decades too early); telling the truth publicly is sufficient cuz u can count on the media's and public's "cognitive dissonance" to kick in at the mention of anything they dont want to hear (they simply wont hear it)."

I agree that this is so much of the problem. Clear cut assessments or judgments have succumbed to gray areas where any outcome or explanation can be rationalized and pretty much anything goes and is justifiable (within reason). There's always a carefully crafted rationale which obscures.

energyecon, Im still reading this but CEPR may have some data by quintiles, etc, buried in here as well.

The Wealth of the Baby Boom Cohorts After the Collapse of the Housing Bubble
http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/baby-boomer-wealth-2009-02.pdf

shill (profile) wrote on Mon, 8/31/2009 - 3:05 pm
"Investors who think the U.S. economy is recovering are going to get a big shock this fall," said Biderman. "Companies and corporate insiders are signaling that the economy is in much worse shape than conventional wisdom believes."

Stop raining on the s
ECONOMIC VIEW; An Echo Chamber Of Boom and Bust - NY Times
"What happened? Economic analysts often turn to indicators like employment, housing starts or retail sales as causes of a recovery, when in fact they are merely symptoms. For a fuller explanation, look beyond the traditional economic links and think of the world economy as driven by social epidemics, contagion of ideas and huge feedback loops that gradually change world views. These social epidemics can travel as swiftly as swine flu: both spread from person to person and can reach every corner of the world in short order.

As George Akerlof and I argue in our book, “Animal Spirits,” the business cycle is tied to feedback loops involving speculative price movements and other economic activity — and to the talk that these movements incite. "

Fundamentals are for losers

I enjoyed that back in Feb. Take out the top quintile, restate the median, and the real picture emerges.

Cinco, who needs "animal spirits" arguments when you already have Astrology and Voodoo.

Ouch. What a surprise that Boomers in aggregate are not big fans of saving.

1) The median household with a person between the ages of 45 to 54 saw its net worth fall by more
than 45 percent between 2004 and 2009, from $172,400 in 2004 to just $94,200 in 2009 (all amounts
are in 2009 dollars). If the median late baby boomer household took all of the wealth they had
accumulated during their lifetime, they would still owe approximately 45 percent of the price of a
typical house1 and have no other assets whatsoever.2

2) The situation for early baby boomers is somewhat worse. The median household with a person
between the ages of 55 and 64 saw its wealth fall by almost 50 percent from $315,400 in 2004 to
$159,800 in 2009. This net worth would be sufficient to allow these households, who are at the peak
ages for wealth accumulation, to cover approximately 90 percent of the cost of the typical house, if
they had no other assets.

3) As a result of the plunge in house prices, many baby boomers now have little or no equity in their
home. According to our calculations, of those who own their primary residence, nearly 30 percent of
households headed by someone between the ages of 45 to 54 will need to bring money to their
closing (to cover their mortgage and transactions costs) if they were to sell their home. More than 15
percent of the early baby boomers, people between the ages of 55 and 64, will need to bring money
to a closing when they sell their home.

I could just pay it off but it would take my super liqid saving to under 7k and

I vote to pay it. Don't give those clowns more money in interest.

Avl Dao (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Mon, 8/31/2009 - 3:19 pm

The Wealth of the Baby Boom Cohorts After the Collapse of the Housing Bubble
http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/baby-boomer-wealth-2009-02.pdf

So, it seems that the boomers didn't sell off their homes to unsuspecting X'ers and leave them holding the bag. Hoocoodanode

I weep for Jane.

If this is the end of the bad news then what you are saying is that our post-credit bust recovery will be different than every other credit-bust that has occurred in the last 100 years world-wide. I'll take the other side of that bet.

Credit busts and their aftermath follow some very well worn steps. They take decades and not 2 years to recover from. All you need to do is read between the lines of the last few FOMC statements and the last months worth of talks by various Treasury/FED officials and it's all there in plain sight.

shill (profile) wrote on Mon, 8/31/2009 - 3:23 pm
Sorry Cinco just spreading the word m8

Why the apology!?

@Black Halo
The stench? Because it leads to things like balanced budgets and sustainable, profitable growth?

No, the stench is associated with the gutless manner Congress backed away from PAYGO. I think PAYGO is a key to sustainable budgetary practices at the federal level, just as PayAsYouGo by households creates sustainable family budgets rather than mountains of debt from shopping and living beynd ones means. It also would create pressure that focuses attention on why nominal US wages are not keeping pace....which focuses badly needed attention on all manner of unsustainable economic policies and memes.

Avl Dao (profile) wrote on Mon, 8/31/2009 - 3:23 pm

Cinco, who needs "animal spirits" arguments when you already have Astrology and Voodoo.

Remember, = joking!

We could always forecast with the duck droppings, Cinco.

@Deflationary
So this is where the term Baby Gloomers came from right?
That's why re-inflating the housing bubble is the 2nd biggest priority for Geithner/Obama/Bernanke....right after propping up the TBTF Wall Street Vampire Squid & squidlings, which is priority #1.

Change (ka-ching) U can Count On!!!!!

More :
Our quarter-century penance is just starting - Telegraph
for those sick of the

Re: supreme court decision back in the late 1800's I believe.

Opponents of "corporate personhood" believe that large corporations as juristic persons have enjoyed certain constitutional rights intended for natural humans as the result of a misinterpretation of an 1886 Supreme Court Case, Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad. Corporate personhood debate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Don't forget tho, only THOSE LIBERALS are against REAL Merican companies, like the honest hard-working salt-o-the-earth Southern Pacific Railroad. WHICH PAYS ITS TAXES AND DOESN'T WHINE LIKE THOSE WELFARE QUEENS DO!!!! YOU FIGURE IT OUT!

I'm sure your feathered friends are MUCH happier now...

Alert: Geithner Press Conference Saturday

After more global plotting, Secretary of the Treasury Tim Geithner will hold a press conference at the conclusion of the G-20 meeting of Finance Ministers.

The conference will be held at Queen Elizabeth II Conference Centre in the Churchill Auditorium Broad Sanctuary, London.

The press conference will be held at 4:30 British Srandard Time.

You're all right. I let the card go up in the last 4 months. I was one of the all cash old timers here until then. I just wonder at the motivation of the banksters. They were making a small 7% monthly off me but 10.9% cheesed me off.

I have 2 savings accounts, some staggered CDs, my 401k, and then the retirement fund. My super liquid was making me money and I was hoping to keep it aside for some shorting opportunities but hell, it's only $2500.00.

Besides, paying it off lets me write a check where I can put "how do you like your Fing 3% increase now Chase?" in the memo line >; )

shill (profile) wrote on Mon, 8/31/2009 - 3:38 pm
The press conference will be held at 4:30 British Srandard Time.

Is that Chinese for "British Slandered Time"?

2) The situation for early baby boomers is somewhat worse. The median household with a person
between the ages of 55 and 64 saw its wealth fall by almost 50 percent from $315,400 in 2004 to
$159,800 in 2009.

Yeah, but how much of that was pure appreciation from the housing boom to begin with? They most likely have not lost all that was gained from the spikes in the prior years (which were the result of economic manipulation).

Fighting for Freedom!
Military Ends Contract for Profiling Media - CBS News

---What a freaking joke.

File this in under the category "It'll Never Happen":

Dollar Is Funny Money in Push for World Currency: Kevin Hassett - Bloomberg.com
"
Aug. 31 (Bloomberg) -- Like the Chinese, the folks at Disney World peg their currency to the dollar. Hand them $1 U.S. and you receive one Disney dollar, complete with a picture of Mickey Mouse or his friends, plus the signature of Disney’s official treasurer, Scrooge McDuck.

That transaction now seems superfluous. The U.S. dollar is rapidly transforming into a Mickey Mouse currency. This has led to a rising call for the creation of an alternative to the dollar in the form of a new world currency. It would be an enormous mistake to discount these calls as a sideshow. The odds of a world currency emerging have never been higher. "

According to our calculations, of those who own their primary residence, nearly 30 percent of
households headed by someone between the ages of 45 to 54 will need to bring money to their
closing (to cover their mortgage and transactions costs) if they were to sell their home.

And how much of that was a direct result of cash out refi's?

Just sayin. Figures can be pushed all around to give any impression.

"The odds of a world currency emerging have never been higher. "

I wonder, is there some kind of commodity which is easily divisible and somewhat rare which might work as the equivalent? Hmmm...

Outsider (profile) wrote on Mon, 8/31/2009 - 3:46 pm
And how much of that was a direct result of cash out refi's?
Just sayin. Figures can be pushed all around to give any impression.
Some, but I'm sure some of it came from moving up to an over-sized, overpriced home to impress their peers, or a combination of both.

To the highs of the day.... and beyond!

Re: it makes you wonder why anyone wants the blinking

You are assuming, however, that the people that want "the job" actually think ALL problems are solvable.

Imagine that you just wanted to solve ONE of the problem and knew that every other problem can be ignore, because either 1) they are unsolvable or 2) somebody else will solve them.

I'd take THAT job. (I don't have THAT personality though).

"Bberg:
“We mustn’t waste this opportunity” in Pittsburgh, Merkel said. “To the surprise of many, we’re noting in several financial centers of the world that the banks that got back on their feet again are behaving just like they did before the financial crisis. This mustn’t repeat itself.”

Let me fix that:
"To the surprise of many idiot regulators, or feigned surprise of captured tools...""

I must admit that I was astounded at how fast the banks got back on the horse. The window of opportunity to enact reforms was awful short. I am reminded of a long term loser gambling addict, who gets lucky once, and loses it all on the next bad bet. We sent President O" to intervene but he just sat down at the table with them.

deflationary jane..

I would pay everything except for $100 on that credit card, keep it open so they dont reduce credit limit down..they are making a dollar on you but your most likely costing them more...Plus if we have that credit jubilee you might want to max it out and go play a little.

Closing credit cards that you have had a long time will knock a quick 40 off on your fica...

Deflationary Jane (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Mon, 8/31/2009 - 3:47 pm

I always thought Baby Gloomers should have been the nickname for those of us cuspers born between 1960 and 1970. Too late to get in on the boomer wealth machine and too late to wait to wait the buggers out.
We do-

Outsider (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Mon, 8/31/2009 - 3:49 pm

Does that count as world currency?

It's better-

TG-269: Treasury, Financial System Supervisors and Regulators Issue Financial Sector Self-Assessment Reviews to IMF

Oh, this is going to be good. For your reading pleasure...

Treasury, Financial System Supervisors and Regulators Issue Financial Sector
Self-Assessment Reviews to IMF

WASHINGTON – Today the U.S. Department of the Treasury and U.S. financial system supervisors and regulators[1][1] transmitted new financial sector self-assessment reviews for banking, securities, insurance, and payment systems to the International Monetary Fund (IMF). These self-assessments review U.S. observance and compliance with four international standards and core principles:

Core Principles for Effective Banking Supervision (Basel Committee on Banking Supervision);
Objectives and Principles of Securities Regulation (International Organization of Securities Commissions);
Insurance Core Principles (International Association of Insurance Supervisors); and
Recommendations for Securities Settlement Systems (Committee on Payment and Settlement Systems and the International Organization of Securities Commissions).

"some kind of commodity which is easily divisible and somewhat rare"

Sorry those are mutually exclusive. What you're looking for is a weighted index of a basket of all liquid commodities.

And it must be digital: another cab driver was shot and killed in NYC yesterday for a few paper dollars. Third in a couple weeks.

"I wonder, is there some kind of commodity which is easily divisible and somewhat rare which might work as the equivalent? Hmmm..."

Not something that allows credit growth beyond productive capacity, which is why it'll never be used.

Re: We sent President O" to intervene but he just sat down at the table with them.

Not quite. You sent the entire Democratic Party, which - like ALL political Parties - is run by very smart amoral scum-bags, to "intervene". President "O" just happened to be the advertising campaign slogan.

I'm sure it will be different NEXT election though. Remember, keep voting for those major Parties, they have YOUR interests at heart.

Really, they do. (Queue: Merica flag)

"I'm sure it will be different NEXT election though. Remember, keep voting for those major Parties, they have YOUR interests at heart."

I'm really, really waiting for the first populist. Some guy who comes from outside or cuts loose from the political system, gets his own organization, and starts making threatening noises. Oh, the screaming you'll hear from Washington, from all sides. It'll make Fox News look like the Christian Science Reading Room. Someone's trying to bust The Game!

They are really stretching for the good news here:
What Underwear Says About the Economy - CBS News

"They are really stretching for the good news here:
What Underwear Says About the Economy - CBS News"

It says that if you scratch beneath the surface it's all s**t.

Deflationary Jane (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Mon, 8/31/2009 - 3:54 pm

And there were some decent earnings years in the late 90s as long as you were content with the crumbs the 40s and 50s left you. If you were a 60s or 70s without help from the parents, you spent most of your days screwed.

I fall into the later category w/o any help from the folks. Got started late too due to Military Service and getting married and having kids before I had a degree. I'm still better off than most, primarily because my SO is SOOOOOOOOOOOOO tight with money. Living more austerely and working hard should suffice for most of the later kids to come along, especially in a deflationary environment. No one has RIGHT to a 52" plasma TV, etc.

Re: I'm really, really waiting for the first populist

Can't happen. Even an outside "insider" is ridiculed out of the contest. (ie, Ron Paul).

The system now is gamed for the wealthy to purchase representatives. A real populist would have to come from the VERY pissed-off peasants and THEN this populist would be the worst person possible. Right now, the peasants still have enough food and cable to keep from being angry about anything.

What's funny is I have an olddddddddd Cap 1 with a zero balance still sitting out there collecting dust and not a peep from them.

me too. haven't used the Cap One card in several years, but my FICO is gold and don't want it fudged lower by scumbag banks for card-cancelling by me.

At least they have stopped sending me blank checks every 3 weeks.

THe whole FICO thingy stinks. They reward having credit (and unpaid balances) and don't reward paying your bills fully on time.

We are back to a pre-9/11 mentality it is af if Jamie Gorlick is setting policy

August Economic Summary in Graphs

The system now is gamed for the wealthy to purchase representatives

We are part way there now. We have a Senator from Citi (Baucas) and a Senator from HealthCare Insurance (Ben Nelson), etc. Byrd has been the Senator for Coal Mining for decades. Grassley is the Senator from Corn Ag.

Re: The conflict will be won by persuading the population, not by destroying the enemy.

Look, the guy's a REAL Merican. How many REAL Merican would agree with the following statement:

All the Afghans really want is to live like Mericans! To help WIN in Afghanistan, we should build more McDonalds.

Substitute Vietnam for Afghanistan and you know why we stayed in Vietnam for so long, enthusiastically supported by THE WORLDS GREATEST GENERATION! LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT YOU GODDAMN DRAFT-DOGGER COMMIE HIPPY!!!!!!

"The conflict will be won by persuading the population, not by destroying the enemy."

Co-optation is very serious indeed. Seemed to work fairly well in Iraq.

Same but almost 70s baby. Spent my gold earning years paying off my 3% student loans.

The late 80s generation is the one I most identify with, or at least the ones I know. They may have an iphone and computer, but they share housing, don't subscribe to cable TV, keep small neighborhood gardens, free cycle, buy cheaply off the internet, take outside jobs, and cut coupons. They are as frugal as my depression era Aunt. I think their parents should be really proud of them.

Since some savings can be put away with before tax income, one could, in theory, save more than your after tax income. However, this would involve cutting your expenses to essentially zero, perhaps by living in the woods, eating squirrel, bathing in a stream, etc. Seems impossible in all the the hypothetical case.

I have a feeling that he might be referring to how the savings rate is calculated. I'm sure that if you somehow accounted for capital appreciation and used some shenanigans within what is and isn't included in the calculation, it's possible to arrive at a savings number in excess of personal disposable income.

noob goldberg (profile) wrote on Mon, 8/31/2009 - 4:14 pm
I have a feeling that he might be referring to how the savings rate is calculated. I'm sure that if you somehow accounted for capital appreciation and used some shenanigans within what is and isn't included in the calculation, it's possible to arrive at a savings number in excess of personal disposable income.

I see what you're getting at; I e-mailed him and hope for an answer. BTW, capital usually depreciates (in the eyes of the IRS), and this can give you an additional benefit, but it also reduces you after tax income, making the question and the answer even more confusing. If you can then sell this "capital", you may be taxed at the Capital Gains rate which may or may not be better than you current tax rate, further complicating things. Perhaps he'll tell us the answer in the next thread-

noob goldberg (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Mon, 8/31/2009 - 4:23 pm
However, the more and more friends I do sit down and talk finances with, the more impressed I am at their ingenuity and resourcefulness. For a few years there, in my 20's, I was mildly concerned about the spending habits of my generation, but now I see we're all turning out pretty good, at least the ones I know.

In case you missed it:
Comment by Cinco-X from thread 'Fitch: Credit Card Default Chargeoffs decline Slightly in July'

"I have a friend doing RMCR's for mortgage brokers and credit score is moot issue now...he just pulled rmcr last week for broker whose client hit 530, but had long time on job and 25% down...deal is in escrow.......

also luxury import auto mfcturer finance arm is lowering fica requirement to 575 starting tomorrow...think 3 letters and a propeller"

It sure would be nice if ROW figured out that the credit scoring is almost as reliable as AAA ratings on MBS.