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lower ag prices? somebody at Goldman is not doing her job.
We're all subswine now.
Other than milk, i don't see lower prices in anything.
The next wave will be when 'investors' parading as 'farmers' find out $4000 an acre farm land doesn't cashflow with $3 corn. And the 'greater fools' they were certain would save them seem to have disappeared. Farm Crisis v 2.0
What the $7.00 corn for ethanol gone already? Next bubble please hurry!
Time for another Farm Bill. More pork! Go go go, print n pork, print n pork. That will get the economy mooooving again.
C
Top sirloin $2.47 at Ralph's today. Yeah, wait until the herd reductions are done and then look at the empty shelves.
Retail food prices will not go down, ConAgra profits will go up.
Other than milk, i don't see lower prices in anything.
Ask around at the terminals - they'll tell you. Corn was something like $6/bu a year to 18 months ago... two weeks ago in western Iowa I was told it was around $3.25 or less. Thats what they offer at the terminal NOT the pit.
Oh and Deere warned they won't be making a profit either - after a couple years of near record or record earnings. Machinery isn't moving like it was.
CR, that's pretty naive. A decline in farm prices and land values is positive for future food prices.
It means less planting. Less ability to finance seed and fertilizer. It's not intuitive to a city boy.
Every trend I'm monitoring is bullish for food prices right now. All over the world. Demand is constant or rising. Supplies are declining, for many reasons, from recession to weather and water shortage.
There's a very hungry world out there.
dryfly:
Deere also expended their layoff at factories in Iowa recently. A buddy told me Case is laying off in Indiana. Good times in the heartland.
There's a very hungry world out there.
Hungry doesn't feed the dog - money does.
Which is about as bullish a sign for future food prices as you can have. Farmers buy machinery when they are flush, at peaks.
Deere also expended their layoff at factories in Iowa recently. A buddy told me Case is laying off in Indiana. Good times in the heartland.
Yup - was in meetings w/ some of their suppliers earlier today. Pretty interesting - not all gloom IF you are one of the lower cost suppliers.
USDA Choice NY Strips going for $12.98 a pound at Fred Meyer. More sourcing from Canada and Mexico according to the label.
@dryfly
You remember. We talked about this over a year ago. Good call.
re cheap milk prices:
a gas station that my work buddies get coffee at (i home brew) has milk on sale: 2 gallons for 4 bucks.
i don't think that i could produce a gallon of piss for 2 bucks.
I was looking at some Case tractors that where made in Italy. These are real field units and not the tinker toy hobby units. How long until we see Honda tractors as car business drys up?
OT:
AIG up 25% today (over $10). We're getting stupid again.
Dryfly:
You talk to any trucker in your travels. My VERY limited contacts tell me things are still pretty grim in trucker-land. Rising diesel, depressed rates, the usual.
milk has been $1.98 gal. here for the past two weeks.
Which is about as bullish a sign for future food prices as you can have. Farmers buy machinery when they are flush, at peaks.
There is enough equipment out there to last us a decade - farmers buy machines like commuters buy cars - when they can afford them. When they can't they drive the wrecks.
Demand has two factors - 1. desire to buy [hunger] and 2. means to buy [money]. There has always been a world of empty bellies - no one doubts that... where is the money going to come from to move it from Iowa to those bellies? That has always been the stickler. It was in the depression... it was in 1980s farm crisis when there was famine in Africa & LESS THAN $1 corn at the terminals in Iowa. It will be again.
That is exactly correct. Better hope big ag doesn't buy up more holdings or we are seriously screwed. I say this as someone who speaks with the USDA daily.
You talk to any trucker in your travels. My VERY limited contacts tell me things are still pretty grim in trucker-land. Rising diesel, depressed rates, the usual.
I hear the same thing - ugly. Maybe not as panicky as last year but not much better.
Big companies with excess profits buy farm land and can hold out. It pushes the little guy out with over priced land tax valuations and BK. Then the buy at dirt cheap prices like cost average stock purchases. When times are good they win again.
about a month or so ago i decided to go "more" organic so i'm paying 5.60 for a gallon of milk. i drink 2 gallons a week. whatever... i don't sport bling but i don't buy the cheapest anything, er, except computers.
see the movie "food inc." -- i hate to say it but it had enough influence on me to get me to start shopping at my local organic food seller.
I've seen what the futures contracts are paying. Independant dairies can't keep up with big ag. We need little ag more then they need us but that's a conversation for another time with a white board and lots of
We hit the local farmer's market every week. Since we're feeding 5 grown people, we haul quite a bit out of there >; )
The only thing I haven't been able to source locally (central valley) is flour. I'm sure it's here, I just haven't found it.
Land grabs in Africa and farming growing I Brazil. American will have a lot of competition in being the leader. Kind of like the Big three auto makers 30 years ago.
@dryfly
You remember. We talked about this over a year ago. Good call.
I remember - there is one good thing to be said... it means land will get affordable again... maybe... if gov't lets it get cheap like what happened in the 80s.
In late 70s really good land was something like $800/acre...
By 82 I heard of land in central Iowa going for $3200/acre...
Then the bust... mid to late 80s as low as $400/acre... couldn't give it away
That quickly corrected to say $1000-1200 acre by say 1990... been gradually increasing ever since then exploded in price a couple years ago. Folks in SW Minnesota, NW Iowa telling me its up to $4000 an acre... higher in parts of Illinois & SE Iowa.
My guess is a good farmer can make money again when land gets back to $2000-2500 and not until.
D Jane - a white board and lots of beer?
Get out much, hmm?
C
Good luck finding any land less than 20 acres within a 4 hour drive of Chicago where the asking price is less than $10-15000 an acre.
Not to worry farmers...Comrade Bernanke assures us that things are getting better now that he's saved the world from disaster.
Land grabs in Africa and farming growing I Brazil. American will have a lot of competition in being the leader. Kind of like the Big three auto makers 30 years ago.
Africa has major problems with insect pests & drought. It could be a huge producer but will take time & 'technology'.
S America is a BIG player already. I heard a guy from Iowa State U talk about the economics of farming in southern Brazil - he says their cost base [land cost primarily] is half what it is in North America. Meaning either their currency has to appreciate a bunch OR our land prices have to come down. Most all other cost factors are equivalent.
dryfly:
Do you think the government will allow that sort of deflation this time? They've stepped in for banks, home mortgages, and autos. I suspect they'll intervene to protect ag speculators too.
I don't know what price U.S. farmers will get, or how many will survive. But I know that the lower prices go, and the more farms that go out of business, the better it will look to invest in food.
No question food prices got hammered over the last year, except for sugar.
Wheat, corn,soybeans are way off. But other than gold and silver, food might be the best way to play the weak dollar.
I think the U.S. farmers who survive this downturn will do just fine, for the next decade or more. Prime U.S. farmland with plenty of water access is a good buy and will more than keep up with inflation.
U.S. agriculture exports will be strong for a long time. Don't worry, they'll move it to market.
dryfly (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Thu, 8/27/2009 - 8:00 pm
@dryfly
You remember. We talked about this over a year ago. Good call. = mp
I remember - there is one good thing to be said... it means land will get affordable again... maybe... if gov't lets it get cheap like what happened in the 80s.
One of the best threads ever.
The tell will be if the beer barons can make the totally unnecessary price increases stick. I don't think so but what do I know? Actually if I can wish for one good thing to come out of this clusterdance it would be to see the beer/wine/soda distributor fiefdoms broken up.
Good luck finding any land less than 20 acres within a 4 hour drive of Chicago where the asking price is less than $10-15000 an acre.
Takes 20 acres to turn around one of those big tractors... most of the land prices I've heard were for 'midsized' farms in the 1000 acre or so size. Of course 1000 acres in western Kansas is considered 'small'.
Why bother pricing land in $? Talk to me in glod or bushels.
Do you think the government will allow that sort of deflation this time? They've stepped in for banks, home mortgages, and autos. I suspect they'll intervene to protect ag speculators too.
Question - how many farmers are there and how much do they give to politicians? My guess is 'not enough' of both. Their only salvation might be [as in the 80s] if they can hold the banks hostage. Realize it is a lot tougher to 'flip' farms than it is a house... somebody has to actually farm the farm to squeeze the value out.
mooooo
1000 acres considered small!!!
i tried to clear 2 acres of tumbleweeds several years ago... sheesh that was miserable. 1000 acres -- sisyphusian without a "big tractor".
Every farmer I know is in hock up to his eyeballs to either Deere, Case or Ford on leasing programs.
They have the farmers by the short hairs.
mp -- do your farmer contacts ever mention monsanto?
Nuke - good point. In fact, it could be the breakthrough no one's really been waiting for but is probably inevitable, moving beyond risible acronyms for special programs at the Fed and Treasury and going straight to product line by 6-figure HS code for international trade. Bailout window HS100450 Tallow, Fats (non-edible), and Lard (Flyover Prime), HS430897 Grains (Opiodi Himalayan Blue) etc.
Or more simply, rebase at record income levels, insert 38% gross-up from current year courtesy taxpayer. Worked for finance.
C
Monsanto=Roundup
For sneering...
A BIG TRACTOR
Monsanto=Roundup
And also 'GM' hybrids
And getting sued when their hybrids have the nerve to pollinate across fence lines.
It always struck me that farming seems a lot like aviation, ie, very capital intensive.
There's a saying in aviation that, if you want to make a million, start off with five.
I think farming is a lot like that. You have to be very careful.
I think farming is a lot like that. You have to be very careful.
Amen.
LOL the white is for drawing diagrams and tables. The beer is for consuming conehead sized quantities.
Someone mentioned seed companies. The firms that really have the farmers by the short and curlies are ones that deal in cotton. They nail the producers coming and going.
Folks in SW Minnesota, NW Iowa telling me its up to $4000 an acre... higher in parts of Illinois & SE Iowa.
Maybe it was only the RRE developers paying those prices. A fluke whose time is gone.
Speaking of plant life, interesting that Mexico decriminalized possession of amounts of anything for personal consumption, way ahead of US-- the leader of the "free world".
Oh yeah, free as in freely printed dollars.
dryfly -- dude a 14' wide tractor could of busted up those 2 acres in a few minutes, if that. kinda scary.
Argentenia decriminalized too.
Considering the seed prices of some of those wheat hybrids, you'd think the neighbors would thank them >; )
Maybe it was only the RRE developers paying those prices. A fluke whose time is gone.
No it was for real land - producing farms. The RRE guys paid WAY more than that for 'zoned commercial'.
Anyone have a helpful link to the good thread from last year? It rings a bell but I'd like to read it again.
You have it reversed. If Monsanto detects some of "their" genes in your crop they sue you. It's just beyond insane.
for you hard-core survivalist farmer types:
Moringa oleifera
Moringa oleifera - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Really? I hadn't heard that. That is really messed up.
Not that it would surprise me in the slightest.
The RRE guys paid WAY more than that for 'zoned commercial'.
Well, that's true. I think Chicago Dude had the range right for RRE at $10-15k/acre (and then it had to be a minimum of 20 acres to bring the crews in).
Takes 20 acres to turn around one of those big tractors... most of the land prices I've heard were for 'midsized' farms in the 1000 acre or so size. Of course 1000 acres in western Kansas is considered 'small'.
I personally am looking for a hobby orchard. The production beyond what I can eat would be sold at farmers markets. Growing up, we always had a very large garden and I've never stopped growing things, so I am pretty certain I know how to manage it.
As for your larger farms, the family of a good friend of mine from high school had the sale of the last parcel (somewhere in the range of 400 acres) fall through recently. They made huge money in the last decade selling off chunks for retail. WalMart was their biggest score. Anyway, the buyer of the last parcel wanted to renegotiate at the last minute and they said no. Nobody has shown any interest since then at any price.
California losing 30,000 more jobs as Toyota plant closes:
California's last auto plant to close
dryfly -- dude a 14' wide tractor could of busted up those 2 acres in a few minutes, if that. kinda scary.
I have a friend who had 1000 acres in SW Minnesota - all one plot, not broken up. He had a big 9000 series Deere - not sure which one... he could plow & plant in a couple days without too much effort. Had a regular job and took a few days off to do it. The tractor cost so much he then did 'contract' for 'investors' - city folks mostly who thought it was a good idea to own land... so my friend plowed, planted & harvested for them. I doubt the investors made any money except when they sold the land.
Wasn't there a guy in Germany whose honeybees had been getting their pollen from a Monsanto field and it ended up a huge court mess because of Monsanto and the "Franken-food" thing?
Some theme music...
Sixty Acres
Chicago Dude (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Thu, 8/27/2009 - 8:31 pm
I personally am looking for a hobby orchard.
Do you like avocados? 7810 Bradley Rd, Somis, CA, 93066 - MLS #90013829 - Single Family Home real estate - REALTOR.com®
Incredible harvest and income from this 33.5 acre avocado ranch with 3BR/2BTH hilltop home. Multiple water sources include two ag wells plus domestic well, all with separate storage. Easy to use web-based software allows owner-operator to monitor tank levels, irrigation valves, well and pump status, flow rates, soil moisture and onsite evapotranspiration permitting fertigation from anywhere in the world including the monitoring of wind, temperatures and solar and wind power that keeps residence utility costs down. All monitored functions are logged into hard drive memory for future printout, plot or review. Large butler building with worker's quarters. Two diesel generators for backup power. No neighbor easements through this property! Incredible mountain and valley views. Ideal western exposure. INQUIRE ABOUT ANTICIPATED 2010 HARVEST!
josap (profile) wrote on Thu, 8/27/2009 - 11:24 pm
Argentenia decriminalized too.
Not good enough. It needs to be legalized to shut off the illegal trading, and force the market into a legal, taxable, regulate-able path.
D Jane - I'm still not getting it. Why would you ruin a perfectly good session with ginormous amounts of beer by talking diagrams and tables, economics even, numbers lawd help us!
That would be roughly as absurd as sitting hunkered down at a computer on a Friday night with your IPA and betting on ...
Oh.
Carry on.
C
Toyota Will Cut Domestic Production as Sales Plummet (Update4) - Bloomberg.com
My brother-in-law, who is a farmer told me once that if he won a million dollars he'd buy a new tractor and then farm until he was broke
I prefer decriminalization. That way the government can't tax/regulate like they did with tobacco. Viva la grey market.
My brother-in-law, who is a farmer told me once that if he won a million dollars he'd buy a new tractor and then farm until he was broke Smile
LOL - I suppose Vegas would take too long.
Hope he wins.
- 
William Pitt Amherst Quotes
In the bad old days, there were three easy ways of losing money - racing being the quickest, women the pleasantest and farming the most certain.
- William Pitt Amherst
Deflationary Jane (profile) wrote on Thu, 8/27/2009 - 11:30 pm
Really? I hadn't heard that. That is really messed up.
Not that it would surprise me in the slightest.
Google HR 875 for the details-
A note on the Bush fiscal legacy - Paul Krugman Blog - NYTimes.com
Paul Krugman
A note on the Bush fiscal legacy
Right now, the OMB is projecting a debt/GDP ratio of 77 percent by 2019 — 69 percent if you net out financial assets acquired via the TARP and all that. This may be somewhat over-optimistic, but stay with it for a bit.
As I’ve been pointing out, the projected debt/GDP ratio will be high by US historical standards, but within a range that a number of advanced countries have entered without catastrophe in the past. Still, it’s not good. And I had a thought that I haven’t seen anyone else explore (apologies if someone has already done this.) Namely, what would things look like if we hadn’t had 8 years of gross fiscal irresponsibility from the Bush adminstration?
There were two big-ticket Bush policies. One was the tax cuts, which cost around $1.8 trillion in revenue; add in interest costs, and we’re presumably talking about more than $2 trillion in debt. The other was the Iraq War, which has cost at least $700 billion, and will cost more before we finally extract ourselves.
Without these gratuitous drains on the budget, it seems fair to assert that we’d be coming into this economic crisis with a federal debt around 20 percent of GDP ($2.8 trillion) smaller than we are. And that, in turn, means that we’d be looking at projected net debt in 2019 of around 50 percent of GDP, not 70.
And that would definitely not be a scary number. Net federal debt was 49 percent of GDP in 1993, at the end of the Reagan-Bush years; Bill Clinton did move to reduce that number, and succeeded, but the nation wasn’t facing imminent crisis.
The bottom line, then, is this: the irresponsibility of the Bush years has left us poorly positioned to deal with the current crisis, turning what should have been an easily financed economic rescue into a more difficult, anxiety-producing process.
rob dawg re monsanto -- what you're saying is what i was fishing for. i just wonder what farmers think.
Nuke (profile) wrote on Thu, 8/27/2009 - 11:36 pm
I prefer decriminalization. That way the government can't tax/regulate like they did with tobacco. Viva la grey market.
You always hear about MJ being a "gateway" drug. I firmly believe that this is because purchasing it requires that the user develop a relationship with people who "deal" other drugs, and can use their relationship to encourage the casual user to try the "harder" stuff. Taking away this source of new potential customers would, IMHO, reduce the number of folks moving on to harder drugs.
Krugman is a hack... lock him up and throw away the key... most of all take away his access to the NYT...
Re: "Recession hitting Farms"
Will this impact
?
The rules as I know them are buy low and sell high.
Make a profit.
It seems that each generation has to relearn these.
hahahahahaha
I'm an expressive talker, lots of hand waving and drama. A white board helps cut down on the casualties.
Besides, I find econ, hell almost anything fascinating. As long as I'm learning I'm never bored.
this is exactly why I hang out here.... nom nom nom
Vader (profile) wrote on Thu, 8/27/2009 - 8:48 pm
The rules as I know them are buy low and sell high.
Make a profit.
It seems that each generation has to relearn these.
Ahhh yes. Many here are old enough to remember the days before Congress Calvinball.
OT:
The Shanghai Composite Index rose by more than 90 percent from the start of the year to early August, only to fall by more than 15 percent since then.
'The quick rise in house prices in major cities really requires our attention, but it is not a comprehensive judgement to simply say there is a revival of asset bubbles,' Jia Kang, the ministry's research director, was quoted as saying by the official Financial News.
Dryfly,
You gotta get up with the chickens or something? At least mouse over the word Congress.
Krugie turns out to be a supply-sider after all... The supply of USG debt issuance to the republic and the world is to be less under projections than it was in actuality 16 years ago. Party time...?
There's this other bit that keeps nagging at me, uh tip of my tongue, umm, oh yeah: demand. What if the demand for USG debt issuance to 50% of GDP is not the same as it was 16 years ago?
Couldn't hurt just to try and then find out, huh?
nytol
C
Rob Dawg - sure, I like avocados, but that's nowhere near what I'm interested in. I want a hobby. No irrigation, no diesel backup, no fertilizer or pesticide, just a bunch of trees that are well-suited to their location. Apples, peaches, cherries, etc. Stuff that will survive the most brutal winter and hottest summer.
gabyjan
Toyota understands that sales will be lower for years. GM can't seem to get that clue and hired back people to build more cars faster.
So GM::
This is the reason that GM will not survive in the long run.
OT, but I think the MSM could finally be getting the gist of what is going on.
From U.S. News & World Report, but plastered on the Yahoo main page:
Is Unemployment the Worst Since the Great Depression?
A different kind of
subject of a CR post from way back...
Chrysler Agrees to Take on Pre-Bankruptcy Product Liability Claims - WSJ.com
Chrysler Group LLC agreed to assume legal responsibility for injuries drivers suffer from defects in vehicles produced before the auto maker emerged from bankruptcy protection on June 10, the company said in a statement.
After Chrysler's federally funded bailout, the company left legacy liabilities behind in the "Old Chrysler." That meant future car-accident victims who believe that faulty manufacturing by the company prior to its emergence from bankruptcy would be unable to sue the new company. Instead, they would have been treated as unsecured creditors, fighting over the remains of Chrysler's old bankruptcy estate.
All trees require water, trimming, havesting.
The easiest trees may be almond or pecan. But you still have to take care of them.
What are you planning to do with the harvest?
You always hear about MJ being a "gateway" drug. I firmly believe that this is because purchasing it requires that the user develop a relationship with people who "deal" other drugs, and can use their relationship to encourage the casual user to try the "harder" stuff. Taking away this source of new potential customers would, IMHO, reduce the number of folks moving on to harder drugs.
(firing a shot across the bow) I'm glad you emphasized this is your belief and opinion, 5X, 'cause you don't know what you're talking about.
Basel Too,
GM also has the same issue. The writer for Bankruptcy ligitation blog was involved in that, and I believe his blog mentioned they are on the "slow boat" appeals process.
And as if we all weren't borrowing trouble today is exactly 3 months to Black Friday. Retailers could see '09 holiday sales fall: study
| Reuters
Downeast Maine Pumpkin Bread - All Recipes
Ho ho ho.
Feckless Ness (homepage, profile) wrote on Thu, 8/27/2009 - 11:58 pm
(firing a shot across the bow) I'm glad you emphasized this is your belief and opinion, 5X, 'cause you don't know what you're talking about.
Fine; I'll bite. Why don't you tell me how "it really works", and what gives rise to your expertise?
Slow Cooker Squirrel and Liver - All Recipes
King Henry V
Act 3, Scene 5
BOURBON Normans, but bastard Normans, Norman bastards!
Mort de ma vie! if they march along
Unfought withal, but I will sell my dukedom,
To buy a slobbery and a dirty farm
In that nook-shotten isle of Albion.
Feckless Ness,
Too bad UB isn't here, but nice to see you; nice recipe!
Speechless: EXCLUSIVE: AIG CEO defends holiday, slams lynch mob attacks
| Reuters
Make sure you've taken your blood pressure medicine.
C'mon, Cinc. Most kids encounter dozens of gateway drugs before they are ever exposed to dope. And nobody needs a "relationship" with a dealer to score drugs of any kind.
feckless, if it weren't for dope, i never would have hit my doc up for oxy.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20602094&sid=avf.MHzoETVs
Markit Group Ltd. is considering starting an index of derivatives linked to U.K. residential mortgage-backed bonds that would allow investors to bet on the property market without owning the underlying securities.
... And this non-regulated feces is going to fly ASAP, and hence let the casino roar full blast and put up a few extra strings of flashing lights, so we can get back to playing hot potato and get that next bubble fired up.... relax, Obama is all about change!
Hiya, Doc! You'll have to test the recipe for me. I'm a vegetarian!
Maybe UB & Kona will stick their noses in for a bit.
bill was the man
Rob Dawg (homepage, profile) wrote on Thu, 8/27/2009 - 11:13 pm
Speechless: EXCLUSIVE: AIG CEO defends holiday, slams lynch mob attacks
They're going to be glad they invested in private security details, personal jets and offshore hideaways when this sack of garbage we're holding really starts to stink!
Feckless Ness (homepage, profile) wrote on Fri, 8/28/2009 - 12:13 am
C'mon, Cinc. Most kids encounter dozens of gateway drugs before they are ever exposed to dope. And nobody needs a "relationship" with a dealer to score drugs of any kind.
Huh? What drug besides reefer is even called a gateway drug (tobacco and alcohol don't count; they're already legal)? Additionally, if you buy drugs from someone, you're "scoring" them from someone who is effectively a dealer.
yeah, if people thought Liddy was bad, Benmosche takes it to another level. love the part about how his salary is for his children. how else is his daughter going to be a rabbi living the good life unless he makes $7M per year?
Feck,
I know I used to be Kona (part-time) but as for UB, not sure who he is now, or if he even shops here anymore. We did all meet a few weeks back, or was that a few months ago? Nice to hear your a veggie; I try to do it now and then, but I really need my iron and protein and can't get by without devouring my fellow citizens. I always feel like a Donner Party member, but what can I say -- I'm hungry?
Well....if the farmers can't get anything for their crops...they will soon be doing NO farming. Banks who own farms do NOT know how to farm them. Then watch and see where prices go....MM
ritalin/adderall are the gateway drugs for most kids these days, at least in suburbia...
Timmay! You really need to lose the elitist attitude and realize how the hoi polloi view living rent free. Hope he pays the taxes, there is taxes on this former arrangement, right?
"Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner has finally moved into a permanent home after eight months in Washington, leaving behind some lingering questions about the rent-free arrangement he enjoyed with a college friend who was a former Wall Street executive and now a top official at a major international lender."
Geithner Moves To New Home, But Some Question His Temporary Digs
5...5...5... (shakes head).
You have to sympathize Dawg, the poor man has to take some time off and think about where he is going to get a half-assed decent return when he invests the bonus.
Ok, he could do some more vulture investing in undervalued fixer-upper assets in war torn countries, but how many medi villas does a man need - couple more for the kids and he is done.
And, it isn't like he's going to be buying Cali munis or crap like that.
Decisions, decisions, decisions.
Then again, what is the hurry...
Basel Too (profile) wrote on Fri, 8/28/2009 - 12:21 am
ritalin/adderall are the gateway drugs for most kids these days, at least in suburbia...
Gateway drug theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"The gateway drug theory (also called gateway theory, gateway hypothesis and gateway effect) is the hypothesis that the habitual use of less deleterious drugs may lead to a future risk of using more dangerous hard drugs and crime.[1]
The gateway drug theory is often attributed to the use of these 3 drugs
* Tobacco
* Alcohol
* Cannabis[2][3][4]"
Note:The neutrality of this article is disputed. Please see the discussion on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until the dispute is resolved. (May 2009)
What's your point, Cinc?
Feckless Ness (homepage, profile) wrote on Fri, 8/28/2009 - 12:31 am
What's your point, Cinc?
What's YOUR point? I make a statement of my opinion, you tell me I'm full of it, and when I point you to details, you feign dismay? What gives? Do you have anything to say, or are you just trying to be obnoxious for no apparent reason?
"You have it reversed. If Monsanto detects some of "their" genes in your crop they sue you. It's just beyond insane. "
They sue farmers after their freak pollen trespasses on farmer's heirloom genetics.
I've wondered for a while why farmers have not screamed trespass when sued by Monsanto after their genetically modified organisms jump fences.
Hulu - The Future Of Food - Watch the full feature film now.
Cinc, I lived it.
Feckless Ness (homepage, profile) wrote on Fri, 8/28/2009 - 12:40 am
Cinc, I lived it.
I grew up in the '70s, did all that crap, and made it through. Thankfully, I had it out of my system before cocaine became prevalent. I don't think I would have survived it. Nevertheless, I stand by my statement about reefer being a gateway drug. I believe it is because we make it so by criminalizing it.
A lot of us made it through, Cinc, having done far worse than coke. To a child, booze and cigarettes are illicit and taboo - and they are encountered much earlier and far more often than pot. Drugs are drugs, Cinc. I don't distinguish between legal and illegal.
Recession is damaging every sector badly in the US.now the downfall and the 38% decrease in the agriculture site due to Recession is not a good sign!
Reverse Mortgage Information
Supplies are declining, for many reasons, from recession to weather and water shortage.
The more an economy is socialized the more farmers face bad weather and water shortages. Happens every time.