Wow is right.

Hey, nudge nudge, wink wink, maybe we can take the $7 billion worth of bogus treasury sales and give it to Fannie, say no more.

I say pre-privatize already. Why is that not an option?

vitium?

What does the word renminbi mean anyway

"Death To America!"

King County (Seattle) cancelled a bunch of jobs last week, jobs I'd noticed, didn't quite fit but kept re-appearing.
That's all gone now.
Looks like they cancelled a bunch of work-in-progress.

but, isnt' the $10.7bln request from the treasury less than the request they made last time they went to the well? It's a i tells ya, a big fat

This won't cut into Cash For Clunkers money, will it? No? Good.

Cash for Clunkers in trouble. Dealers aint gonna be so happy if the already sold a car and the trade doesn't qualify. They'll get bailed out, though. The new hang-up is that the republicans want to limit the program to incomes of less than 50K. People that make less than 50K shouldn't be getting new cars, methinks.

King County (Seattle) cancelled a bunch of jobs last week, jobs I'd noticed, didn't quite fit but kept re-appearing.
...............

But they have 2 stadiums and a nifty light rail to nowhere....

how can you have both deflation and recovery? in the same sentence no less:

"The Bank of Japan will probably forecast that declines in consumer prices will extend into 2011 even as the economy recovers, according to two people familiar with the matter."
BOJ Said to See Deflation Stretching Through 2011 (Update1) - Bloomberg.com

The good thing is the debt is denominated in dollars.

AIG proved that $171 Billion in dodgy loans is not a detriment to doing business...

Remain calm, all is well~

Fannie Mae is by law and acclaimation a private company. It has no more a claim on the treasury than does say Goldman Sachs. Oh... wait. never mind.

Here is what HAS to happen. First the Stockholders are wiped out and then the bond holders are impaired to the maximum and then and only then are the taxpayers in line for a flensing [look it up].

Based on a very rough estimate, that $171,000,000,000 in non-performing loans is about $855,000,000 per month is mortgage payments not being made.
That's like its own cash for clunkers program every month. Green shoots!

The only leftovers from the Section 8 Years in the highest levels are Ben & Sheila, thus I would expect the blame game to concentrate upon them...

Welcome to the C4CC: Cash for Corporate Clunkers.

Nothing like throwing good money after bad, down a RAT hole, after all, it's only taxpayer's money. In fact, let me be more specific. It's so far gone, that it's not this generation's nor the children's, but grandchildren's tax payer money, and soon we shall start on the great grandchildren's.

All right, I'll look it up. It sounds like something, er, intestinal.

Big news locally was that fed stimulus money will allow the city to keep the cop jobs it cut from the budget. Eeeeh haaaah!

Re; Ron Paul, Mish

They might be right, but there's still no solution. The peasants aren't with THEM like they are with the big mommy or big daddy party concept.

White House "light years" away from Fannie plan (my headline)

WASHINGTON, Aug 6 (Reuters) - The White House dismissed on Thursday a Washington Post report that U.S. officials were considering a plan to isolate failing assets held by Fannie Mae FM.N and Freddie Mac (FRE.N).

"The story out today is light years ahead of any decision-making process here," White House spokesman Robert Gibbs told reporters. "Safe to say that many senior administration economic officials learned of this proposal sometime this morning."

Why don't they just F'ing explain to people, like their TaxPaying Shareholders, their Taxpayer Invetors, that they having no F'ing clue as to whatthey are doing, andthat the only reason they ever made any money (on paper) was because of F'ing fraud, as in packaging F'ing MBS and spinning off F'ing fruad in collusion with Treasury and all those other F'ing agencies that were on the take, I mean that are on the take, taking F'ing cash from American Taxpaying shareholders that are getting F'ing robber in broad daylight on a day-to F'ing basis. This is really getting F'ing old and I swear to God above, and may lightening strike you all dead (if I'm wrong) that Obama better get his F'ing crap together and distance himself from this fraud ASAP.... amen?

Why yes, I did believe that Jas was completely off his rocker and remain convinced.

I get about 3 internal job postings a week at the state U I work for. And I thought we were in catastrophic budget straits....

Nah, the generations will not be screwed, after a while, anyway.

We will simply default and start over. Or, inflate, the chinese water torture of default.

But I just don't see how inflation is gonna happen. Without the literal helicopters hurling
money over low income areas.

Re: that they having no F'ing clue as to whatthey are doing,

Somebody famous said (something like): The only great thing about the great-depression is to see how little the big-men know.

Who cares about our kids getting the bill. They will get everything they need from Mommy government. They will even get an allowance to spend! Why work and pay taxes? Cut out the middle man and give it all to the government, they will take care of you!

It covers the Roman Empire from Hadrian to the fall of Constantinople in 1453

A significant difference is rate of technological change.

OT, but has anybody seen the ranting and raving of Lou Dobbs against healthcare reform when it includes public health care? If you have the courage to watch him, next time a commercial that promotes healthcare reform comes on, check the bottom of the screen at the end wherein it states the ad is paid for by the American drug industry. Really enjoyed the bruhaha between Keith and Lou yesterday, great exchange. Keep it up boys!

Re: Q&A With Fannie Mae’s Heidi McKibben: Fannie Mae Looks at Ways to Mitigate Risks from Weaker Apt. Markets
Published: June 11, 2009
Q&A With Fannie Mae’s Heidi McKibben: Fannie Mae Looks at Ways to Mitigate Risks from Weaker Apt. Markets

"MHN: What is the update on Fannie Mae's initiative to sell more Mortgage Backed Securities (MBS)? Has the market demand for MBS normalized in the last few months?

McKibben: Our effort to revitalize the multifamily MBS market is going very well.

We have seen strong and growing demand over the course of this year for Fannie Mae's multifamily MBS by various investor types. We issued approximately $2.4 billion in MBS securities in the first quarter of 2009. We have been working to re-introduce our MBS product to the market with our flagship MBS/DUS product. We have updated our marketing materials and have worked with our lender partners to increase the flow of MBS product that is made available to the market.

This increase in activity has been well received and a majority of our business is now being delivered as an MBS execution. We have also seen significant improvement in trading levels for our MBS/DUS and have seen spreads tighten by approximately 40 to 50 basis points since March of this year. We have seen strong and growing demand over the course of this year by various investor types. "

See Code key for future text: = Shi-head = = lieing assho-e = lieing bastard (insert as needed)

Liz, you have new Japanese party not wanting to buy $ denominated debt.
Agency and Sovereign purchase of $ 2 T by Uncle Ben.
Chinese want to buy TIPS going forward for new issuances.
The rest of world does NOT want us to devalue our debt and want us to pay it back the hard way.
Carter bonds will make a comeback.
Deflation is baked in the cake and I agree with others time for a good ole fashioned jewish debt jubilee.

"At its height, the Roman Coinage was almost pure gold/silver. By the time the Vandals sacked the western empire in 476 AD, the coinage was mostly base metal filler."

cause and effect?

The new hang-up is that the republicans want to limit the program to incomes of less than 50K.

If I'm paying cash it's nobody's business what my annual income is.

Ever wonder what the fuss was all about in regards to alchemists trying to transmute base metals into gold?

It was perfected somewhat in terms of turning copper into silver, when technology reared it's ugly head and a crude form of electroplating copper to make it look like silver was achieved.

Around the time of Julius Caesar and for several hundred years afterwards, the denarius was about 95% pure, it took 25 of them to make 1 gold aureus.

by the 3rd Constantine Emperor in the mid 4th century, it took about 3,500 of them to make 1 gold aureus~

ghostfacedinvestah:

Probably because an increasingly corrupt and autocratic ruling class killed the goose that laid the golden egg and tried to make up the shortfall (for bread, circuses and the legions) by printing, I mean debasing.

My secy said her landlord is gonna quit paying. That would be the 2nd time.

but I misunderstood, the landlord is defaulting on the the home that they are
living in, not the one she lives in. They will move into the house she lives in,
so we will obfuscate and delay and delay very wholeheartedly.

The landlord hasn't even been served yet, so this is far down the road.

No one should get any subsidy to buy a car. How bout "cash for mattresses". "Cash for blow up dolls".

"Did anyone else here start out believing Ron Paul, Mish , Jas, and KD were completely off their rockers ? Looks like
I was the delusional one. "

Now you know how Neo felt.

Re: about the fall of Rome

But, don't forget, it took 500 years AND they just changed their corporate name to Italy (it was a debt for equity swap) They didn't really "fall". So we (you me) and Mish and Ron Paul won't be around when it happens here, to "clean things up".

"A significant difference is rate of technological change."

Right you are.

On Topic: Non-performing loans of $171B?! And nobody is responsible? Nobody has gone to jail?
Gimme a pitchfork!

Howsabout finding out where these suckers live, GS people too, and start picketing them?

That just means we can debase faster!

Exactly my point. Seriously, The System is constrained by consumption (among other things). That's one reason the numbers have gotten so ridiculous. We've had enormous productivity gains over the past 150 years which the Romans didn't have.

I'm amazed at how blase the public (and world) is about the Internet. In FIFTEEN years, we've gone from almost zero access to 2 billion people with instant, almost costless access to almost all music, movies, scientific knowledge. I can not believe I can video-conference China with an iPhone from almost anywhere in the US for pennies.

That's a phenomenal change.

Climate change was also an issue in Ancient Rome. Ostia was it's main harbor, and now it's a few miles from actual water...

http://www.fanniemae.com/mbs/pdf/MBS_ancillary_report1q09.pdf

Fannie Mae's DUS program has been the company's primary multifamily lending platform for twenty years. Fannie Mae DUS lenders were responsible for over 90% of the Fannie Mae multifamily debt business in 2008
Media: News Releases > Fannie Mae Announces its Top Originators of Multifamily Debt for 2008

Who The F is RED CAPITAL GROUP is a Comprehensive Capital Provider for Multifamily Housing, Health Care and Real Estate Industries ??

RED CAPITAL GROUP, a PNC Financial Services Group company, is headquartered in Columbus, Ohio, employs approximately 250 people and maintains twelve offices nationwide. Since 1990, the bankers of RED CAPITAL GROUP have provided over $46 billion in taxable and tax-exempt first mortgage debt, mezzanine level capital and equity to multifamily, seniors housing, health care, and other real estate properties nationwide. In addition, Red Mortgage Capital, Inc. services more than $20 billion of income property mortgage loans.
The PNC Financial Services Group, Inc. (http://www.pnc.com) is one of the nation's largest diversified financial services organizations providing retail and business banking; specialized services for corporations and government entities, including corporate banking, real estate finance and asset-based lending; wealth management; asset management and global fund services

Ahhhh shit, I give up......

killed the goose that laid the golden egg and tried to make up the shortfall (for bread, circuses and the legions) by printing,

Except that we're not in the middle of a shortfall.
Until 2008, there was a ton of stuff being made.
Houses, cars, junk from China, food from everywhere.
.
.
It's likely that the Feds did juice the 7-year auction.
That just confirms to me that the situation isn't anywhere near what it looks like.
I watched this with Greenspan in the early 1990s, I totally misjudged the banking collapse situation and the Fed's reaction.

"He noted that as things collapsed, there was no longer a manufacturing base to supply cheap goods to the provinces, so pottery got more crude, and coinage was less evident."

The fall of Rome is such a complex subject that I admire anyone who can make a rational theory out of the process. Fernand Braudel, the French historian, even disputed whether the fall was any more than a very prolonged dissipation, at least around the Mediterranean. Certain aspects of trade went on for centuries. Others will write that the Empire merely adjourned to Constantinople, and did not fall until 1453.

Ecological factors, epidemiology and climate change, demographics all have to be taken into account. Transport and communications remained in the Iron Age form of development. Northern Europe moved into political dominance. The records are not all that voluminous.

"We are dependent on the continued support of Treasury in order to continue operating our business," Fannie Mae said in a Securities and Exchange Commission filing late Thursday.

Stuff is moving too fast this afternoon.

Can't....breathe....

Re: picketing them

PICKETING? This is a total LOSER of an idea in Merica. Let war-game this idea:

YOU start picketing.

Faux News finds out. Breaking: LIBERAL LAWYER LIZ PICKETS HONEST HARDWORKING BUSINESS MEN OF MERICA.

O' Riley (sp): Liz is a Lawyer, Lawyers are LIBERALS, Liberals PICKET. Liberals LIKE THOSE PEOPLE, YOU FIGURE IT OUT !!!

Typical dumbass Faux News watcher: Hears: “THOSE PEOPLE” in his tiny brain. Neurons fire, bring up images of THOSE PEOPLE. FEAR AND PANIC hit.

You immediately have 40% of the population against you.

I prefer talks about the fall of the Incan Empire over those of Rome. Please start talking about the fall of the Incan Empire. It is so much more interesting.

Come on peeps, this is retarded! Wake the F up and call someone, call or yell out your window, bitch to your mafia-linked Congressperson....

Re: $14.8 Billion Loss, Requests $10.7 Billion from Treasury

Re: The Enron Corporation, the nation's leading wholesale electricity marketer and natural gas trader, posted a third-quarter loss yesterday because of more than $1 billion in one-time charges for various businesses.

Enron was a BIG deal, why is this NOT a big deal? Why are we going to bail out more crooks???? Reward them, help them take more??? WTF??

Hsnk Greenberg got hit with a $15 million fine by the SEC, but no jail time...

It's like letting them get away with murder, and nailing em' on jaywalking charges instead~

Californians too-

Would you like to buy a car that's going to be built in the next month?

Carmakers rush to replenish depleted dealer stocks

nuke
im listening to the decline and fall of the roman empire. on vol 1 book 4 or 5. good narator. it isnt a bedtime story but it is good.

pavel:

Agree. rome did not fall for one reason; it was a tragic confluence of events.

JD:

Rome's problem was cooling. As Gibbon points out, it got colder in the 300-400 AD period. The rivers forming many of Rome's natural boundaries froze in the winter, allowing Germanic hordes to cross and plunder at will.

Rome's fall also underscores the importance of having a powerful and relatively benign hegemon to maintain order, keep the sea lanes open, etc. We won;t be filling this role much longer. Lets just hope the Chinese are quick studies and aren't too abusive.

Don't forget lead poisoning!

Don't worry, that part is coming soon.
Mostly for bankers.

Doc Holiday (profile) wrote on Thu, 8/6/2009 - 6:57 pm replyIgnore userCome on peeps, this is retarded! Wake the F up and call someone, call or yell out your window, bitch to your mafia-linked Congressperson....

Won't do any good. They have no choice but to continue to fund, prop up the US housing market. Can't reflate without it.

bitch to your mafia-linked Congressperson....

Mine became President. Now what?

Hey, take a name. I wouldn't call what is going on in Fla propping up!! Perhaps a
little bit of going down more slowly, up is a forgotten direction.

Mish is off his rocker with the "eliminate e-ville government stuff" but his grasp of the economics is solid.

You've got to be kidding. Among many things tntc, he does not understand the basic concept of savings, global wage arbitrage, the new mechanices of the bond market, nor the intricacies of the various carry trades.

Yep. The small farms were killed or severely hurt by the aristos fairly
early on. Long before Rome fell.

You've got to be kidding.

Revised to "Mish's grasp of the credit cycle is solid".

Bringing in lots of slaves from Judea and many other places didn't help Roman Joe AmphoraPack either.

"Wake the F up and call someone, call or yell out your window, bitch to your mafia-linked Congressperson.."

Seeing as how the other half the population is employed by the government, I'd say your best bet is to minimize your taxes. Stop working so hard. Stop spending. Offer to barter or pay under the table for stuff.

If you're still dutifully going to your dayjob and paying out taxes, you have no right to complain.

$400 bucks for every mattress and a car in every garage.

I passed on the C4C after I thought about the sales tax and license fees I would give to the state and local government. My game is time to starve the tax beast! So I save a lot by not playing the game.

Re: Freddie Mac executive

Too much guilt or morals. He was unworthy to be in the nobility.

Re: A huge increase in productivity could offset a collapse.

One word: TRAIN stimulus.

30 million households underwater, that is.

2 days ago I opened up some long positions... d'oh!

Speaking of debasement:

The First Duffer
By Michael Scherer Thursday, Aug. 06, 2009
Presidents, like normal people, tend to seek in others what they admire about themselves. Which brings us to the par-5 12th hole at Woodlawn golf course in Fort Belvoir, Va., on Father's Day. Vice President Joe Biden, an 8 handicap, has leaked a 3-wood into the trees near the green. He stands amid the underbrush, talking with his match-play teammate, the President of the United States.

Barack Obama's Golf Game - TIME

I can't wait for these losers to go under...

I almost got my card on the MPGA Tour, but triple-bogarted that god damn windmill hole...

This death spiral is not a good thing. I've been asking for months: who will finance the
REOs? Prices are affordable now, here. I repeat, for any bigwig who is listening:

After REOs are being held for X months, financing must be offered by the REO owner

One word: TRAIN stimulus.

I should have taken pictures.
We drove through northern Idaho and eastern Washington last week.
If you've never been there, it's an amazing sight, i call it the "Wheat Dunes".
Wheat fields cover the ground for thousands of square miles.
Very few people live there, it's all done by large combines and it's repetitive, which means it could probably be harvested with almost no people at all.
.
.
There's a lot of productivity things which can still happen at an information / robotic level.

I thought it was olive oil, Juvie?

No no no NotaREALAmerican. not just train stimulus, the big old tri-partisan pork stabilizer-----the MagWatrain.

maglev/waterline/train

If some stimulus is good, then more is better, right? right?

Is this why Fannie Mae spiked up recently? It was because someone knew they were going hat-in-hand for more money? This is going to piss off the people that are already pissed off re: health care, cap and trade, and bailouts. Let's just settle this with a great American death-match fight...

The GSEs will modestly increase their mortgage-backed securities portfolios through the end of 2009, and "in 2010 their portfolios will begin to be gradually reduced at the rate of 10% per year...eventually stabilizing at a lower, less risky size."
Treasury and FHFA have established preferred stock purchase agreements, under which Treasury will "ensure that each company maintains a positive net worth" that will support market stability, with the government now acknowledging that "we have a responsibility to both avert and ultimately address the systemic risk now posed by the scale and breadth of the holding of GSE debt and MBS," which are held by central banks and investors in the U.S. and around the world which assumed that debt was risk free.
Treasury is forming a new secured lending credit facility--which Paulson called an "ultimate liquidity backstop"--which, combined with the preferred share purchase agreements, should allow the "GSEs to be in a stronger position to fund their regular business activities in the capital markets." The facility will expire in December 2009.
Treasury itself will begin a temporary program to purchase new mortgage-backed securities from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac through December 2009. This step will help ensure mortgage availability and affordability.
Paulson made it clear that "there is no reason to expect taxpayer losses from this program, and in fact, it could produce gain." However, he noted that while they are in conservatorship the GSEs "will no longer be managed with a strategy to maximize common shareholder returns," and that "the ultimate cost to the taxpayer will depend on the business results of the GSEs going forward." Fannie Mae CEO Dan Mudd and Freddie Mac CEOs Dick Syron have been let go, though they will stay for an undefined period to help new CEOs "supported by new non-executive chairmen" through the transition.

Some of those combines are satellite-steered.

Are they fully automated now?
You have to drive through to really grasp it.
Last time I drove through there was 1997.
It's like driving through Los Angeles, end-to-end except it's wheat fields instead of houses.

All periods of massive economic/productivity expansion have such a power.

The Great Reckoning's main premise is that hegemonic power leaves the U.S. and goes to the East.
Written in 1991, it's pretty obvious now.

But I'm still inclined to think the Indians are the guys, not the Chinese.
They' have a much greater cultural link to Western culture.

"Lots of land went fallow as people could not pay taxes leading to less food, higher prices, more unrest etc."

Shrinking population base, for various reasons, forced the Byzantine government to raise taxes and apply draconian methods to collect them, causing impoverishment and disaffection.

Perhaps the situation in the western empire was similar. Records, are, I believe, rather sparse.

Hegemonic power transfers to the country that has the most to lose. It's a hot potato right now.

Are they fully automated now?
..................

Some are

The Lexion 590R worlds Biggest Combine Harvester.

I think I read that Roman population went down to 25K at one point

the most to lose.

Interesting idea.
The Great Reckoning ties hegemonic transfer to link to Western powers.
I don't remember the order of succession.
Spain -> France -> Dutch -> Enlish -> U.S. etc, and mentions abortive attempts at Eastern transfer (Moors, etc).
.
.
GF has a date tonight.
I suppose I'll go the Art Walk and dinner.
Later.

I like going down the Farm equipment dealers and look at the new machines. Amazing! Some day the wheat/corn harvest will not need combine drivers in the cab at all.

Last fall, I sort of thought the only solution to Fannie/Freddie was Fed monetization.

I didn't make the leap from monetization to my tax burden until later. Of course, it could be my inflation burden.

And yet most of the Fannie/Freddie management still has happy, shiny, jobs with salaries, benefits, and vacations in the Bahamas.

Something seems amiss.

broward - reposted from overnight thread:

broward,
Question for you: Work is finite. But isn't creativity infinite? And can't creativity lead to work? And what about sex in the reproductive manner? Isn't that work that when multiplied over time can lead to infinite result?

Sorry, you're just screwing with my head with what in my mind is like a "first law of work-o-dynamics" or something...

probably a topic of discussion after midnight...

China has always been a land of businessmen.

As mentioned before, I worked for an Indian company in 2008.
I saw their strengths and weaknesses.
They're on the track to be Americans of the 1950s.
Perhaps it was the group I worked with but I was surprised.
Primitive in many ways but a lot of energy and very attentive to "how Americans do things".

I posted something to last night beyond late;

Sorry, had GF all night, no time for CR.

Rob a liquor-store @ gunpoint for $233, get caught and do 10 years in the slammer: Cost to taxpayer $500,000

Robbing Paul to pay Peter for $7 Billion: Priceless

lawyerliz (profile) wrote on Thu, 8/6/2009 - 7:35 pm

Instead of giving money to F & F, why not have a lottery. We put the names of all delinquent owners in a hat and pull out names. Big winners get their mtges paid off, Lesser winners get 1/3 off and a mod; others get brought current. Money goes to F & F, but taxpayers get juiced too. It's a win-win.

Liz,
I don't have a mortgage or debt; what do I win?

See I thought you were posting on CR 'cause you were done, and then you were gone again...

My sincere esteem and .

We paid off our mortgage a year and a half ago.

They also have a real middle class-

And hostile neighbors (on one side anyway) to distract them.

England is an island nation, their neighbors were more competitive than ideological enemies. The US is fairly friendly with their border mates. As someone said earlier, it's the between period that's the most dangerous - and screws up any predictions.

.....and you wonder why I stopped "playing the game"............why do you keep feeding the dead fish?

Charles Kiting (profile) wrote on Thu, 8/6/2009 - 7:38 pm

England is an island nation, their neighbors were more competitive than ideological enemies. The US is fairly friendly with their border mates. As someone said earlier, it's the between period that's the most dangerous - and screws up any predictions.
Ask a Dutchman about the 100 years War- Doesn't get much press here in Anglo-America-

What's your point?

My point was that at best they are incompetent, at worst, thieves and racketeers. Yet, there are no consequences.

I know they are only one link in the chain, but the fair and mighty American justice system has yet to take any action.

/snark?

I don't have a mortgage or debt; what do I win?

You can't win if you don't play.

The SEC nailed Martha.

"As mentioned before, I worked for an Indian company in 2008.
I saw their strengths and weaknesses.
They're on the track to be Americans of the 1950s."

I've never been, but a retired laywer friend of mine has spent years there. He's now president of a nonprofit community mediation agency. Last year he went back and taught a couple of conflict resolution classes gratis for (I believe) the Bangalore Chamber of Commerce and a law school some distance away.

His take on the average Indian businessman and barrister was that the only "conflict resolution" was crushing the other guy. That wasn't everybody, of course, and the women who managed to get in were extremely receptive.

But then again, you've got these stories about Indian business students snapping up copies of Mein Kampf because they admire strong leaders and... I dunno about Indian world leadership. That point of view just doesn't get you into the hegemon's Laz-E-Boy.

Indian business students snap up copies of Mein Kampf .

Ouch! That hurt-

So next week's 10yr auction will be ... interesting?

C

I used to be a conservative and I was incensed at here prosecution. I still think she was railroaded for what is common practice on Wall Street.

it's hard to understand the time in whice we live without first understanding joseph goebbels Joseph Goebbels - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

fascinating man. a pioneer in marketing / news manufacturing.

100 dollar nothingburgers for everyone

There should be a poll for the expected % monetization of the 10 and 30 yr offers next week.

If Fannie and Freddie have such large losses, what must the actual losses of the banks' portfolios look like?

Re: Presto Pravda!

As long as they keep Merican Idle on, 99.999999% won't care. And the others, as we know, aren't patriots.

I sometimes frequent another message-board with an oblique political discussion going on, a sample of the comments:
Their comments in italics. My comments here in bold

Why not just let Fannie and Freddie collapse? Unless you realize what that would do to the economy you really shouldn't comment. A loss of the secondary market would be a disaster. You think the economy is bad now? Ha! You lose those two giants and the economy of tomorrow makes today look like we are riding a bubble.

Imagine a complete collapse of the housing market. Not a foreclosure problem mind you. A complete collapse that no amount of bail out could hope to solve. No secondary market, no housing market. Without freddie and fannie the housing market would be that of a third world economy. Super high rates, 50% or more down to buy, and prices that rise and fall based on ever house sold because almots nothing would sell. We'd take a massive step towards becoming a nation of landlords and renters becuase the middle class owning homes would be nothing more than a dream.

How would be a nation of landlords and renters if this happened to everyone? Wouldn't that mean homes would be affordable and people could buy with cash (if they didn't already blow it?)

Not "too big" to fail. Too integral to fail. Fanny and Freddie are quasi-public companies that serve a unique role. Heck, why not let the FDIC fail too? It's just a "corporation."...

(How are the TARP and stimulus going?)
Amazingly well, actually... When is the last time you heard about the financial system melting down? Not for months right? What you hear now is banks in a hurry to pay it back. PAY IT BACK?! Months ago they were about to close their doors and now they are rushing to get the government their money back. Amazing turn around I'd say.

This is joe american voter here and what he thinks. They are clueless; and believe we can keep going down the path we've gone, nay; not just continue, but that we must continue!

We've been in the midst of a seismic SNAFU this week, a Trouble Whiching? hour

"The SEC nailed Martha."

And how many billions did she bilk the taxpayer out of? Oh, right guilty of being famous and not on the friends of W, list.

Re: with an oblique political discussion going on...

The conservative peasants I works with are MUCH more pissed off at THOSE UNIONS and THOSE LAZY UNION BASTARDS than the bankers.

Dude, the banks are payin' back, dude! You think the UAW is ever payin' it back?

Oh wait, but they're gonna raise my taxes! I gotta go out and protest! They are gonna force us all to have health care! I gotta get out and protest! I need to go give my Representative an airfull.

But our young men dying in far away lands... meh they all signed up for that job... in fact I'm sure its where they'd all rather be now.

Re: the guy was too good for that

HA! Probably right!

YLSP:

Because losing and going home hands control of the country back to those who perpetrated 9/11. I agree that Iraq was a huge mistake, but no country can afford to be attacked and not respond with force. I appreciate your concern for the troops, but this is exactly why we maintain a military.

All very simple. Let's monetize that debt and be done with it.

"Other states, like NY and Cali, have tried to do the right thing"

What is this "right thing" you speak of with regard to these two states? Did I miss the snark tag?

Combined loss reserves were $55.1 billion on June 30, 2009, up from $41.7 billion on March 31, 2009

What are the losses going to be for calendar year 2009 ?
Then greater losses for 2010 and perhaps 2011

YIKES the printing presses will be going full blast as America turns into a much large version of Mexico and/or Argentina !

The mistakes in the middle east will pale in comparison to what happens when you bring your soldiers out of harm's way, back into a world that has no place for them...

crazyv:

I have made that exact point numerous times. During the recent "boom", many of my engineer friends went into the financial services industry. You still see lots of engineers getting MBAs for this very reason. I have no such illusions. I carry my slide rule with pride.

blackhalo:

My fault, I should have put it in. My point is that open ended commitments like this, especially from a state with depressionary unemployment numbers, will probably lead to ill in the long run.

jd -- come on. sneak into a church on sunday. vets get standing ovations.

What's the going wage for standing ovations nowadays?

AMF,
Depends if you are in a jurisdiction that got stimulus money... if your unemployment is high enough its minimum wage... but the work is quite slow...

Hunky Dory ( and farewell to US middle class )
Hunky Dory - Clusterfuck Nation

Excerpts:

Those in the broad bottom 95 percent were content as long as there was a chance that they, too, could become members of the top 5 percent -- by dint of car-dealing, or house-building, or mortgage-selling, or some other venture enabled by easy credit and a smile. Those days and those ways are now gone. The bottom 95 percent are now left with de-laminating houses they can't make payments on, no prospects for gainful work, re-po men hiding in the bushes to snatch the PT Cruiser, cut-off cable service, Kraft mac-and-cheese (if they're lucky), and Larry Summers telling them their troubles are over. (If I were Larry, I'd start thinking about a move to some place like the Canary Islands.)


Too many disastrous things are lined up in the months ahead to insure that we're entering a new phase of history:

Government at every level is worse than broke.


Our currency, the US dollar, is hemorrhaging legitimacy.


Inability to service old debt at all levels or incur new debt.


Bad (toxic) debt lurking off balance sheets everywhere.


The housing bubble fiasco is far from over <<<< DING DING DING per this post


Commercial real estate fiasco just getting started.


Unemployment rising implacably.


So-called "consumers" unable to consume consumables.


Crucial energy import supply lines fragile.


Food supply subject to energy problems and climate abnormalities.


A world full of other societies who would enjoy watching us fail and suffer.

Here, in the dog days of summer, it seems to me that the situation in the USA is so fundamentally bad, so unpromising, so booby-trapped for failure, that I wonder if there has ever been a society so badly deluded as ours. We're prisoners of our wishes, living in a strange dream-time, oblivious to the forces gathering at the margins of our vision, lost in a wilderness of our own making.

"The humane thing to do when a critter is mangled, suffering, moaning without halt and bleeding money profusely, is to PUT THE ANIMAL DOWN."

Fixed that for ya.

"The mistakes in the middle east will pale in comparison to what happens when you bring your soldiers out of harm's way, back into a world that has no place for them..."

they are going to think that iowa city is fallujah?

I don't think the vets are the ones you need to worry about. As a portion of the population, they are small and, on average, better educated and less prone to criminal pathology. Also, the new GI bill is awesome! The problems, if they come, will probably be from those who fall through the safety nets as governments cut back services.

Compare our armed forces of this day in 2001 with the current model...

2001: Most troops had never seen battle, the few that did won a quick victory a decade before. National Guard was something that helped out when hurricanes or earthquakes hit, etc. stateside.

2009: Most troops have seen battle, they have fought an unidentified foe, which means they've had to be on constant guard almost all waking hours . The National Guard reservists are worn out just like all the expensive high-ticket weaponry.

"Afganistan won't invade. However, it was, and may well be in the future, a base to launch attacks at the US. The end game in Afganistan is denying the country as a base to those organizations."

I would agree that Afganistan is justified and the right thing to do, and that Iraq (without international support) was pure folly, but your point above seems weak, as those terrorist groups will just move to Sudan, Somalia or some other place without rule of law and a lack of oil to get U.S. interest. While the radical fundamentalists in Saudi continue to funnel them money.

"but I just don't see the point anymore."

.....it's time to close and lock the gates, start thinking with the big brain, and start remembering how to extricate our head from our anus.

Nuke,

Imagine WW1 ending in 1931, and the doughboys come marching home off the troopships?

"2001: Most troops had never seen battle, the few that did won a quick victory a decade before. National Guard was something that helped out when hurricanes or earthquakes hit, etc. stateside."

40% of forces in theater during Gulf War I, were National Guard or reservists. Granted, I'm sure it is much higher this time around. Downside is that these "weekend" warriors get nowhere near the support of active duty forces, before and after activation.

the mostly badly deluded Americans today had better 'get experienced' for the demise of their American dream

Are You Experienced? Jimi Hendrix
YouTube - Are You Experienced? Jimi Hendrix

Google maps has a cool new tool,type in the city and state,then Real Estate in the next field and you get a satellite image showing all the foreclosures and preforeclosures.I guess I don't live in a town that is immune after all...

homegnome:

just read an article from the free times about Innovista. i've always known it was a higher-ed administrator's wet dream boondoggle, but the level of incompetence simply astounds.

Countrymen and Patriots,
Let us gather around the Tree of Liberty and discuss the future of our nation....

Nuke,

It's not 1918 anymore. Kids go to war wired for sound with big guns at the ready in uber SUV's. In their downtime they get to play video games, most of which are hyper violent.

p.s., happy birthday

"Looks like the story is legit... I mean treasury direct and the new york fed wouldn't lie...? "

The scary thing is there is probably way more to the story. Are they ringing the bell for inflation?

blackhalo:

I was a reservist in the Marines before going active. Indeed, the support for the reserve was dismal. No health benefits, lousy GI bill, and, when you get activated, huge pay cut. It is much, much better now.

JD:

I agree Iraq was a waste. Afganistan was/is not. It is precisely what we maintain a military for. Where have I applied patriotic gibberish to my arguments? I go out of my way to avoid waving the flag and rely solely on facts and reasoned statements.

I'm skeptical too but at least they are doing something to help people with money they can never pay back instead of wasting it or just looting.

Nuke,

It wasn't you...

Came from a feverish partisan, still trying to lay the blame on somebody other than King George II

"Funny this country was made by a bunch of assholes who fought for it. Now we have a bunch of _______ (Fill in the blank) it cost to much to be free (for the moment). Lets give up freedom and let them win."

JD:

I don't think the guys have changed that much. One of my pleasures is talking to the old timers, vets etc. My impression is that the guys are pretty much the same as they ever were. In fact, today's military is probably less tolerant of pathological behavior than in the past (the joke used to be that a DUI, bust and divorce were pre-requisites for making Chief). I think they will do OK, in aggregate. Some of course won't, but luckily the VA has made progress in recent years.

km4:

Thanks for your reasoned response. You are probably right. The pipeline was the reason we invaded. A large attack perpetrated by a group headquartered in the country was merely the pretext.

"Imagine WW1 ending in 1931, and the doughboys come marching home off the troopships? "

I don't have to imagine too hard...

"The self-named Bonus Expeditionary Force was an assemblage of some 43,000 marchers — 17,000 World War I veterans, their families, and affiliated groups, who protested in Washington, D.C., in spring and summer of 1932."

"The 1932 march was brutally suppressed by U.S. Army troops under the leadership of Douglas MacArthur and George S. Patton."

emulate Hoover 

Failed Freedom Follies:

Freedom Letter
Freedom Maid's Outfit
Freedom Onion Soup
Freedom Cuffs
Freedom?

"

Sadly, few of my colleagues are interested in what is happening with the financial system.

The ones that are interested aren't that interested."

Like knowing a secret nobody will believe. Nobody but those with an esoteric interest in macroeconomics can fathom the implications of failed treasury auctions due to economic illiteracy. Much of what is taught, from rational expectations, to the invisible hand, is nothing more than corporate religion.

@ Nuke (profile) wrote on Thu, 8/6/2009 - 5:36 pm
Just remember everything is intertwingled especially when it comes to oil geopolitics for the USA

yeah, my friends suck too.

Yes, just a handling/management problem. Lets do over but start with Vietnam. Unemployment problem solved.

I prefer talks about the fall of the Incan Empire over those of Rome. Please start talking about the fall of the Incan Empire. It is so much more interesting.

The Incan empire fell because they thought white men on horses were sent by the gods and could not be challenged by mere mortals. So when Pizarro rode into Cuzco with a few dozen bearded white men on horses, tens of thousands of Incas bowed down.

They never got up.

All their gold got sent to Spain.

The moral is...don't trust white guys with beards who claim to know great truths, but really want to give away the public's money to the rich.