McCain promises filibuster on C4C, so that kills the vote before the August recess if he sticks by that...

Drawing forward sales ...

Giving away money ...

How long can this go on ?

Go, McCain, go!

And, fully rehabilitate yourself by saying, 'My mistake, pushing and voting for the bailout. Never again.'

Of course, the people who pay taxes for C4C aren't necessarily the same ones getting cars.

We have a street named Hawthorn Street that was formerly Asylum avenue. John McCain's got his 11 cars headed there, to the cross street named Senility Street.

OT. Pigged from the last thread.

New Mexico, USA still has occasional incidents of plague. I used to see T-shirts in the Univ. Biology Dept. that said "NM. land of the flea, home of the plague"

My understanding is that it is quite treatable with antibiotics. It becomes a problem if untreated. The most recent case that made the news a year or so ago, was when a Santa Fe couple came down with it on a trip back East. The husband almost died and was left with permanent damage because it took a long time for anyone to realize what he had. Medical people in NM are more aware of it.

OT - Oil and DXY:

Are we starting to see inflation all of the sudden?

Well, if this had applied to the hub's 13 year old Saturn, it would have
prolly caused him to stop "saving up" and buy a new car. Maybe the
next stage will. If not he will buy the new car when he has saved up the
full price or the Saturn needs a really expensive repair. Whichever
comes first. The Saturn could go a few more years.

Two kids with bubonic in New Mexico this year I think (maybe end of last year)...read about it with the same story about super rabies.

More optimism fuel. Never bet against optimism. I actually heard one of the peasants I work with talking about "stock options". Not sure what the entire conversation was but when stock-options are being mentioned again, things are starting to get-good. It's a bubble I tell ya, a BUBBLE.

Cars are fast depreciating?

13 year old saturn didn't depreciate fast.

Response to credit- on last post;

credit-, it is not that The Fed/Treasury will push the markets down in Oct. It is that sheeple naturally get gloomy and morose in Sep./Oct., as nights lengthen and days shorten, and that Sep./Oct. are the worst months for the stock market, on average, as a result:

http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~lkramer/aer-sad.pdf

See figure 1.

I say 14% default on c4c but will go with 40% if they didn't have down payment...the 4500 is the down payment the lenders needed to buy the paper....backhanded way to sell cars and paper...

thanks Jp...still doesn't make sense from a economic standpoint...give me hopium in big doses before xmas...I might buy something...

As the economies around the world try to stagger to their feet ...

Peak Oil will swat them down again ...

So a bank being raided by the FBI will probably be on the evening TV news in FL areas. Will people take their money out of a bank that's been raided by the FBI? If anything were a signal for a run, this would be it. I mean, if the HQ of my bank were raided I'd move my money, just because things would be screwed up for a while.

Sheila learned about crowd control last year when IndyMac bank caused much consternation in the city of angles.

Latest anecdote is my eye dr.

He sold his house--short sale. He could afford to keep making
the payments, but felt it was foolish. He bought a couple of years
prior to peak, and he put 10% down which was a lot then, and he
even got an IO mtg, but regularly made principal reductions anyway,
but it was still short. He's renting now, but wants to buy in with an
older eye doc in Ft. Lauderdale at some point, and will rent there
for a while.

A ruthless default and his credit has taken a hit, but not really much
of one.

a doctor friend of mine is massively underwater on a beautiful house.

She's able to afford payments now, but I wonder if the economy is going to take a toll on her very high-end practice.

picosec (profile) wrote on Mon, 8/3/2009 - 3:26 pm

The national reduction in gas consumption, however, is only 0.05%.

Nice work again! I was at first worried your spreadsheet might find its way to being stolen by the green shoots infected media, but.. 0.05% reduction in gasoline usage? There's some spare change we can believe in.

The real stimulus is depression:

Aug. 3 (Bloomberg) -- The number of Americans taking antidepressants doubled to 10.1 percent of the U.S. population in 2005 compared with 1996, increasing across income and age groups, a study found.

An estimated 27 million U.S. people ages 6 and older were taking the drugs by 2005, while their use of psychotherapy declined, according to Columbia University research. Each person treated for depression in 2005 also filled more prescriptions, an average of 6.9 that year compared with 5.6 in 1996, said the study published in the August issue of the Archives of General Psychiatry.

Antidepressant Use in U.S. Doubled Over Decade to 10% in 2005 - Bloomberg.com

Bonus if it were to happen during the recess.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA

Fact is, if the economy recovers, it will only recover for 20% of the population, if that.

mmckinl,

20%????

Where can I get some of that hopium?

"read about it with the same story about super rabies."

What's that?

4500 is for higher mileage, don't know what.

C4C for trucks have different MPG requirements for cars.

yeah, 2mpg is the minimum, I think

I'll bet you the Silverado doesn't really get better mpg than the old f150... (bigger, heavier, more hp)

DETROIT (Reuters) - General Motors Co said on Monday its U.S. auto sales fell 19.4 percent in July from a year earlier, but retail sales rose from the month before for a fifth consecutive month, supported by the U.S. government's "Cash for Clunkers" incentives.

GM U.S. July sales fall 19.4 percent | TPM News Pages

C4C is a cruel scheme to create a boatload of auto-loan defaults 6 months-1 year from now.

I'm not sure there will be any higher default rates - maybe LOWER... everyone I know using this plan has plenty of cash to buy a new car - they didn't want one yet... then the C4C came along & said 'Meh - they are paying me to buy one now as opposed to next year, whatever..." and they did it.

Example - one of my in-laws [a doctor - owns a lake home paid for plus a ton in retirement accounts] calls me and asks about my Jetta diesel - do I like it? Love it. Turns out she is going to be driving to the city a couple hours away 2-3 times a week for the next few years and wants a 'lower carbon footprint'... so they trade in an old van they use for hauling stuff [mpg in the teens] and buy a high mpg Jetta via C4C... that was to replace her elderly Subaru which they gave to one of their adult kids [starting a PhD program out east]... and then turn around and buy a new van to haul the stuff they were hauling in the old one.

They completely gamed the system. They were probably going to do the deal eventually anyway - all C4C did is pull that transaction forward and put $4500 cash into the pockets of some upper income professionals.

There will be no more cars made or sold - only a change in the time line & a little more ching in some prosperous people's pocket.

I think there are more of those than low income wannabes. IMHO.

pavel, national geographic ran a story a while ago, I posted the link here, but can't remember it off the top of my head...anyway...I think raccoons, skunks, and something else are showing signs of a new form of rabies that is transmitted from contact, not biting. Worried it could be transmitted without biting to humans. Cases found in New Mexico and other parts of the southwest. edited found it:

super rabies

Dryfly,

Some truth in what your saying but what I'm seeing in regards to auto credit applications via sampling across nation is many are using rebate as down, they want 60,72 and 84 mos financing....

Sure their are cash buyers but majority are looking for financing...it's also pulling in people without a clunker, kind of a placebo effect.....

I do not think Shelia could move fast enough to get extra $$$.

I don't know the mechanics, but since the credit line was raised to $500 billion in a recent bill, no action is needed from Congress. My guess is that a couple of clicks is all it takes for the FDIC to start drawing on their credit line at the Treasury.

A medium or large failed bank with no buyer still creates logistical problems. The FDIC then has to pour over records of account balances and mail out checks, and handle discrepancies as they arise. If you dispute their pay out, you could be waiting months. That seems like the biggest risk.

A. must. read.

"High Frequency Trading (HFT) aka 'flash trading' will continue to grow exponentially. Trading will become so fast, time itself will have a public offering after Microsoft secures a patent on it and trading time futures will catapult traders backwards and forwards through time until they need bailouts on debts they have not yet incurred. Tim Geitner will sell his house in Larchmont."

ht BURN
Paulson did it for the lulz

Experts agree that free money is the best kind.

CDC, August 1, 2009
Scientists today confirmed the existence of a new rabies that has long been suspected. This rabies was previously only found in Central Europe, and parts of Los Angeles with a high concentration of Anglo high school students. Originally spread by bats, the disease has become increasingly main stream due to efforts by the media. The effects are often seen in teenage children who begin wearing black, and express a desire to ruin their $4,500 orthodontic work by filing their teeth.

Green Shoot Alert: two lower middle class kids in my neighborhood (14 or 15) just rang my door bell and left a flyer for services...I can get my dog walked, yard mowed, garaged cleaned, car washed, or moving and hauling done for 5 bucks an hour...notice (handwritten) claims money needed for back to school supplies. They are willing to work hard and get the job done with a 100% gurantee....hell has frozen over folks. They were noticeably devoid of cell phone and ipod gadgets. Sort of looked a little lost.

Angry saver seems especially angry today.

Perhaps unleashing his Looterliz.

von Beck,

The last kids in my neighborhood who offered that had parents who were in foreclosure

nova, I wouldn't doubt it. We have had many homes for sale forever, and no takers yet. I know things are getting tight.

The owner of one of the larger auto dealers in the metro area where I live said that he thought most of the people buying weren't planning on buying, so he didn't think it was just pulling in future sales

Of course not - dealers would never pull in future demand...

[/snark]

"a doctor friend of mine is massively underwater on a beautiful house.
She's able to afford payments now, but I wonder if the economy is going to take a toll on her very high-end practice."

As long as the medical lobby continues to get Congress to limit the number of practicing physicians in America (by restricting federal medicare payments to teaching hospitals thus limiting the number of residencies which all doctors must complete...), you doctor friend's income, as well as the income of most other physicians, will remain artificially inflated. She will probably be fine...

Not one of them looked like an "upper income professional"...

Car buying 101 - look like you don't have much money.

Doesn't help much if the place is mobbed with customers though.

i have an otc CASH deposit on hold with bac right now! still no bank runs.

stock market looks like a bull, cept for that whole inverse correlation problem.

anyone calculate what percentage of c4c lift went to asia or germany? i.e., current account deficit much?

Tonight Im gonna party like its 1983.