Danger of not paying? What danger? There are no consequences any more.

“They’ve done the math on their account and they’re very angry,”

Not so much angry as enlightened.

And CR asks (presumably rhetorically):
"And why are transaction costs for retailers still so high with all the innovation and advances in technology?"

Ans: For the same reason you are charged a transaction fee for ATMs but human tellers are still free.

There is nothing ruthless about it. Two of my daughter's store credit card accounts were automatically transferred to electronic billing to an e-mail account she no longer used. By the time she was notified in writing, hundreds of dollars of penalty fees, interest and late payment assessments were added. She finally settled to not totally destroy her credit rating.

Personally I think these bank bastards should be put in jail. They are thieves.

I spy yet another deflationary trend....spending what you ACTUALLY HAVE. Not good for M3.

The Heart of Default Darkness

"Mistah Kurtz... he BK. "

I know the rules with mortgage debt: It's either officially non-recourse, depending on the state and the state's rules for purchase money/refi/HELOC debt, or it's unofficially non-recourse, with just a few token cases of people being pursued all the way to substantial actual recovery for recourse debt. And short sales are loan mods are the new way out.

What are the rules for CC debt?

Is bankruptcy really the only way out? Or are CC companies doing mods? Writing down balances? Failing to pursue all other assets/ garnish wages?

Why aren't consumers being educated? ... why are transaction costs for retailers still so high?

CR, you are kidding, aren't you?

HomeG,.......no sarcasm or frivolity allowed.

OT?

Al-Braikan, Sued by U.S. SEC Over Textron Bid, Found Dead in Likely Suicide

(A51) "Hazem Al-Braikan, who was sued last week by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission over bogus tender offers for Harman International Industries Inc. and Textron Inc., has been found shot dead with 43-bullet and stab wounds to his upper back and extremities, a security official at the Kuwaiti Interior Ministry said. "Al-Braikan probably committed suicide", said the official, who declined to be identified because the investigation is still ongoing."

.....time for my nap.........

BSR,
posted this story this morning but you were probably out working with Milkshake.

Enjoy your rest.

In this context, isn't it obvious that "Chicken Little" represents the sane vision and
that Homo Sapiens' motto, "Let's go shopping!" is the cry of the true lunatic?
- Dr. Peters, 12 Monkeys

If the credit card companies really wanted their money back, they'd enter agreements with customers to halt new credit, reduce interest to 7% on existing balances, and eliminate all penalties (and interest thereon) from the balance.

Instead they spend money on lawyers to fight to keep the debt intact even through a bankruptcy.

CR,
the last thread veered slightly off topic.
No biggie.
Thanks for your dedication!

Black Star,

link please? All my articles omit the stab and multiple gunshot parts.

Bloomberg is reporting a gunshot wound...
Al-Braikan Dies in Likely Suicide, Official Says (Update3) - Bloomberg.com

Link us up, BSR.

Did Congress pass a law saying that retailers can't charge extra for purchases paid by credit card versus cash?

Do you also advocate Congress telling oil companies how much they can charge to refiners or telling airlines which fees they can/can't charge?

Marketing spawned our Culture of Denial. Marketing by definition is manipulation. All media is marketing and media is omnipresent. Our system is all manipulation. A system that enshrines the trick and rewards the shiftless manifests passive aggression. It has become a nasty part of the US personality type. People here fuck eachother over silently while they get smoothly fucked over in every corporate and government interaction.

Since a major personality trait of the US consumer citizen is passive aggressive, any possible Mass Reaction to the collapse will likely display passive aggressive characteristics. These include passive resistance to demands for acceptable fulfillment of social and occupational obligations, obstruction of other's efforts, deliberately inferior effort, and evasion and abdication of accountability and personal responsibility.

Passive aggression is seen in boycotts, road rage, banks refusing to lend, investors on strike, ruthless defaults, and multitudinous other silent fakes, quiet refusals, and lies of omission played to game the trick system. A pervasive "no snitches" attitude would be another example.

Americans are trained that the only way they can affect their universe is by altering their purchasing habits. Owners of corporations are trained that they can abandon their responsibilities with no liability by going bankrupt. Consumers will be acting like corporations with regards to their financial responsibilities. The corporations are the Gods of the consumers. Consumers will emulate their Gods.

Mass Choice can be exercised to NOT do something like pay your debts, resulting in widespread default and dead banks, or not pay taxes, resulting in dead governments. The possibility exists for the end of modern ponzi finance from fiscal discipline being forced on the banks in a widespread "democratic default" or modern equivalent "tea party" whereby the masses throw off their corporate colonists and cast their debts and other obligations into the sea in such numbers that it ruptures society.

The boss called us in.
He wanted to speak.
He said we'd be cut down
To three days a week,

And not only that
But rollbacks, as well;
Without cuts to our pay
We could all go to hell.

It hit me just like
A slap in the face,
And I realized right then
I might lose my place.

Now, this job to some
It might not mean a lot,
But for me and my family
It's all that we've got.

With all of our bills
It's been hard to save
What with the recession
And all the money I gave

To my Mom, when my Dad died
To put him away,
Kinda glad he's not here now
To see us today.

I hope that the bank
Will give us a break,
But they only give
In order to take.

So we'll see what happens
And tighten our belt
And hopefully survive
This hand we've been dealt.

Now that defaulting on your mortgage has become an accepted business decision on the part of homeowners, defaulting on unsecured debt like credit cards was just a story waiting to happen. Capital One be scared, be very very scared.

Some words are hard to translate out of Chinese.

But some words are really tricky to translate into Chinese. Such as:

Sophisticated

Ironic

Ruthless

Not kidding, if anyone can define what ruthless means in this context (some debtors bailing), then at least I can try to explain what's going on to my wife!

otishertz - yes, the corporations are the gods who rule our destinies and determine our collective fortune, as well as our standards of living. They are even immortal persons granted fully human status under the law. More human than human. The technical esoteric term more appropriate, however, at least in my opinion, is egregore.

homeGnome
you so brave, you so brave.

tell you what abortion really has to go, not on moral grounds but simply because we need those babies spending capability. not moral economical

Bring back debtors prison and we'll see how willing people are to ring up that cc debt. I'm sorry but I have no sympathy for anyone in credit card debt.

yep those 43 bullet and stab wounds make it a suicide

Gee I go to lunch and miss the food fight!

Why not walk away from CC debt. What are they going to do cut you off? they probably did that all ready. Quit paying your mortgage another bonus free rent for how long 6 months a year + pay the bookie and car payment they will take your car or worse. We have raised a spend and charge all you can with zero responsibility to anyone. Just hand the bill to the chosen ones who pay taxes. Everyone else it's a free ride!

Get back in there and reinflate that balloon!

They bought it, they can pay for it.

I tired of everybody pretending it isn't their fault.

It is their fault.

They bought a bunch of junk. Now pay for it!

CR: "Why aren't consumers being educated on the dangers of not paying off their credit card balance each month?"

Because that's not in credit card issuers interest.

Another question is why do credit card companies market to naive college students who have no employment, unless their purpose is to create a set of chronic debtors?

It bothers me that people can get away with defaulting on their obligations, but credit card companies and their clear intent of creating a population of debt slaves bothers me a hell of a lot more.

Well stated otishertz.
I think it is 4th generation warfare being waged against us by TPTB.

way OT: (but grist for pertinent posts):

100 Best Movie Lines in 200 seconds

Have had one card canceled and had two others have their limits decreased. And I pay my bills on time and have NEVER been late. If I were to lose my job, I would have no qualms whatsoever about not paying my CC bills. The brother-in-law has gone BK TWICE in the last ten years and STILL drives around in a nice newer (financed) car and has a nice place to live. I'm SERIOUSLY contemplating defaulting even if I don't lose my job.

JimPortlandOR - I am actually watching 12 Monkeys as I sit with a netbook in my lap, and heard the fortuitous bit of dialog by happenstance. Funny how that works sometimes!

Borrowers are victims of their own ignorance or stupidity not the money lending whores.

Borrowers are victims of their own ignorance or stupidity not the money lending whores.

Your sentence works pretty well in the other direction too: Lenders are victims of their own ignorance or stupidity not the money borrowing whores.

... which leads me to assign the blame as 50-50.

HG - No, but their marketers know and exploit every weakness of the human animal soul to feed their dead gods.

Shine on you Jamie D/Ben Dover

Here in Dubai there is debtor's prison. The also through company executives in jail for the slightest malfeasance (happened to executives in my former company, who are still in jail). Criticize the idea all you want....if we had debtor's prison in the US would we have these problems. Where would the country's economy be if every mortgagee that forged an application, every consumer that defaulted on debt, and every mortgage broker who pushed an appraiser the wrong way was in the slammer, what would the country's economy look like?

And therefore is that a bad thing?

I think it is an interesting question.

traderwalt, who do you think lost and who gained in the following transaction?

Person A, who bought a home in 1997 for $200,000, sells it in 2007 for $800,000. Buyer B 'pays' $800,000, 100% borrowed from Big Bank. Big Bank dumps most of the loan on the govt (via a resale of 99% of it to Fannie Mae, or some more devious form of transfer). Now Buyer B walks, and the home is sold for what it's worth, $300,000.

Which is worse - bankers or terrorists (profile) wrote on Sun, 7/26/2009 - 1:03 pm

Where would the country's economy be if every mortgagee that forged an application, every consumer that defaulted on debt, and every mortgage broker who pushed an appraiser the wrong way was in the slammer, what would the country's economy look like?

It might be a good sell to the prison-industrial complex, and their lobbyists can take it from there. Your new customers have to come from somewhere.

"...and you get a T-shirt!"

I want one of the lumpy ones

One more point, people buying stuff they couldn't afford on credit drove up prices for the rest of us that actually use cash and spend what we actually have.

Bad Volker,
No muffin for you.

"The debts of the US and it's citizens are not serviceable at current low wage and diminishing asset price levels. Contracting local, national, and global economies compound the problem. What happens when people can't play the game anymore? How long before there are so many losers in the game that even those who still have the means to continue gambling in the ponziconomy refuse to play?"

What happens.....you short sell the 10-year Treasuries at that point b/c that motherf**ker is called is US sovereign default and it is the ultimate short play in human history.

adornosghost (profile) wrote on Sun, 7/26/2009 - 1:07 pm

Then, of course, that small problem that one cannot expand indefinitely in a finite world.
Where interest is involved, one must expand, or it doesn't get paid back.
Any smart 10 year old can explain to you where this is ultimately heading.

the objectivity of prepubescence combined with lack of personal stake in the outcome

@BSR,

Where did that Kuwaiti article come from? The one posted on Yahoo Finance says, "Hazem al-Braikan was found dead in his bed with a gunshot wound to the head and a handgun at his side, said the official, speaking on condition of anonymity because he did not have the full details".

Mel-

My fear is that if we create debtor's prisons in the US the Goldman Sachs Criminal Finance Syndicate will figure out how to run them and profit off of those two.

Goldman Sachs would ALWAYS be the top.

The problem with a debtors prison now is we would have to lock up a fair amount of people here. If we had one before then things probably would not have gone nuts. Then we have the Wall street and politicians how would we lock them up?

From the article: After she tried to get the bank’s attention by skipping a payment,it immediately raised her rate to 25 percent.

Well she got their attention!

All of this comes down to replacing human decision making with computer modeling....software sucks at figuring out how people are going to spend, pay back and fhat inherent risk...

people defaulting is fine with me, bringing down the pigmen is the only way we regain america the way it was....

debt sleeps with the devil....

disclaimer-becoming an anarchist is starting to sound good to me....

In US history, who is the bigger villain--G/S or the mafia?

The Time's article makes reference to Shays' Rebellion, but clearly the author knows nothing of the facts.

These were not people who built up debt through extravagant purchases and then defaulted.

From Wikipedia:

"Daniel Shays was a poor farm hand from Massachusetts when the Revolution broke out. He joined the Continental Army where he fought at Lexington, Bunker Hill, and Saratoga, and was eventually wounded in action. In 1780, he resigned from the army unpaid and went home to find himself in court for the nonpayment of debts. "
Shays' Rebellion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He couldn't pay his debts because he hadn't been paid for five years service to his country! Meanwhile, debts from the war needed to be paid:

"The financial situation leading to the rebellion included the problem that European war investors (among others) demanded payment in gold and silver; there was not enough specie in the states, including Massachusetts, to pay the debts; and through the state, wealthy urban businessmen were trying to squeeze whatever assets they could get out of rural smallholders."

So the merchants and traders who profited from war spending we trying to squeeze the people who fought the war, who had often never received their skimpy pay.

Theirs a highway here named for Daniel Shays.

I ran up my credit
On geegaws and junk,
And then the axe fell
And now I am sunk.

I can't make my payments
So I guess I'll just wait
And live here for free
'Til the arms of the state

Remove me by force
Out onto the street
Where my sole mode of travel
Will be on my feet.

It's a good thing I saved
This pistol of mine.
It might come in handy
Somewhere down the line.

I think its an open question of who exactly is terrorizing whom here. Both sides are looking pretty bad in that article.

How about some more Climate Change? Everyone seems to much in agreement on the CC stuff--

Periods of continental glaciation or "ice ages," and the "interpluvial" periods between them, are caused by orbital forcing. The predominant contributors to orbital forcing - the so-called "Milankovitch cycles (named after the Serbian geophysicist who described the three major cycles) - are as follows, with their periods:

All of this is inevitable and can't be stopped, even if humans stopped buring fossil fuels immediately. This is humanity's and the biosphere's future. We have set in motion forces, on top of natural orbital forces, that can't be stopped and will result in a planet whose climate is radically different from that to which humans and the ecosystems that support us have evolved adaptations. The rapidity of change outpaces natural selection by several orders of magnitude. The outcome equates to the mass extinction of species including our own.
--darwinsdog

State officials who lead California's war on global warming often travel abroad on trips supported by the major greenhouse gas polluters they regulate, a Bee investigation has found. Industry lobbyists and executives routinely join them.

Since 2006, more than two dozen top state officials have fanned out across the globe on such trips, bound for a climate change policy tour in Europe, meetings with high-level government officials across South America and China, even a safari in Kruger National Park in South Africa – all on someone else's dime.

They have logged more than 700,000 air miles and touched down in 17 nations, on trips collectively costing hundreds of thousands of dollars. In the process, their air travel alone emitted 275,000 pounds of heat-trapping carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.

404 - Not Found - sacbee.com

There is a reason credit card debt is called "unsecured debt"

climate change is real...
the ocean dying is even more realistic..
without the ocean teeming with life...we all die....

love that whale wars captain...he's a real hero...

AIER - Are Property Rights Key to Saving U.S. Fisheries?

A recent report by the United Nations Environment Program finds that 25 percent of all fisheries are collapsing because of overfishing. (A fishery is considered collapsed if its annual catch is less than 10 percent of its historical maximum catch.) While the current state of fisheries sounds alarming, future forecasts look worse. A 2006 article published in Science predicts that by 2048, all fish stocks worldwide will be gone if historical trends continue

Effective Demand (I'm uncomfortable referring to you as "ED")

Succinct and correct for many.

Debtors (again, many, not all) have been playing kick the can down the road for some time and now it appears the road has a bridge out. This is an opportune time to join the other zebras in the herd and hope the lions can't catch all of us.

The local fishwrapper said that even tho guaranteed fha loans were available
for the banks to loan out, they were refusing to do so.

Now one may argue that fha loans should not be available, etc, etc. But it
seems the banks are simply refusing to loan money even tho their investment
is guaranteed.

Excuse me, why do banks exist in the first place if they are not gonna loan
money?

Yep off South Florida fishing of certain species is gonna be heavily
restricted for a while, and oh, the screaming!!! At least some thing
is being tried somewhere.

@ MrM
which credit card company do you work for (snark off)

I'd be happy to let CC co.s price for risk-but in exchange we reinstate usury laws......

This is an opportune time to join the other zebras in the herd and hope the lions can't catch all of us.

If I was knee deep in debt I may think that. But I'm not, just not my nature. I never joined that herd. The good news for me I don't have to worry about the lions. I'm thinking about joining the vultures though, carrion is sounding mighty fine.

Credit card transactions need transparency. It would take about 3 seconds after the receipt is printed for cash payers to go postal over the inequity.

CCard Receipt:
Store Info
Date
Product Price $10.00
Transaction Fee... $0.35
Transaction rate fee @ 2.45% $0.25
Sales Tax @ 6.00% $0.60

Total: $11.20

Cash Receipt:
Store Info
Date
Product Price $10.37
Sales Tax @ 6.00% $0.63

Total: $11.20

Mayhem ensues.

"Credit card transactions need transparency."

The same would be nice for every product we buy as to the hidden tax built into the price. Example would be Pipeline transfer fees on gas, Excise taxes. The consumer would get quit a sobering look at indirect taxation as well.

ResistenceisFeudal-

If you say the economy will be more "female" in the future, then explain Goldman's results this quarter.

more parsnips
less debt

But for every zebra that is doomed, many more are zebras looking to break free with just a few scratches or shortness of breath. Borrowing without repaying is a lot nicer than borrowing and repaying on the original terms.

I think that is exactly what is going on as well, which is why my sympathy is limited for both sides of the equation.

I for one think the borrowers and lenders should go under and pay the consequences for their actions. It would reduce the number of lenders making bad loans and the number of borrowers willing to overconsume and ruthlessly default.

But apparently according to modern economic theory I'm antiquated in my thinking.

"Credit card transactions need transparency. It would take about 3 seconds after the receipt is printed for cash payers to go postal over the inequity."

Exactly, RD.

BTW, the taxes paid by people who sold in 2007 were small, and are not going to be increased by much comapared to the total taxpayer loss of $500,000. Other taxpayers will be picking up most of that tab. I am not trying to blame all our ills on homeowners who sold out at the peak. I am just pointing out who actually gained and who lost. Where did the money all go, and who is paying the tab? It doesn't all balance out. Bank stockholders s ended up losing, net. Senior bank employees gained some. But I think the biggest dollar gainers in aggregate dollars are homeowners and the biggest losers are taxpayers. Not the same. (I am sensitive to the distinction because I've never owned a home, but I pay enough taxes every year to support several families in comfort.)

otishertz (profile) wrote on Sun, 7/26/2009 - 1:59 pm

The future is now.

So the degree to which the future is experienced is in some inverse proportion to the degree of hopium in one's subjective perception of that objective future?

OT: While we are resting on our laurels, Brazil has been pumping huge amounts of money into research and has rocketed ahead of us in several areas of important technology:

Print Story: Yahoo! News - Yahoo! News Photos

Later Taters,

I'm going to go drink some chilled urine, smoke some pot and ride my bike.

Parting words:

Advice is worth what you pay for it.

Otishertz: "Parting words:
Advice is worth what you pay for it."

I have some very expensive advice available. Send me the money and I'll send you the advice.

Climate Change is real because we are overfishing the oceans. Now that is logic I can depend on!

Advice is worth what you pay for it from a disinterested, objective observer who can perfectly reflect its value in terms of price and who is not subject to the profit motive.

While we are on the subject of ACH clearing, i'll repeat mention of a post i made weeks ago, which no one commented on then, i think because the average person does not realise the ramifications, namely that ACH is extending its reach to the G20, and this appears to have been orchestrated in haste (although, i am out of the insider-loop these days, so maybe there was was more advance warning than I heard about).

bsneath-you read it wrong....

Climate change is real...period..

overfishing is a larger problem.. no fish, no life..

drink some coffee...

I take that back. Paid advice is frequently worth beans. Words either add up or they don't independently of the byline.

Yeah, but if you don't pay, you don't take it seriously,
and that is bad for the recipient of the advice.

But what does that mean?

And by the way, seems I've earned my keep here.

Sorry kr, I just don't get it. I read wiki and still don't understand what
it is or why I should care a lot, or why more countries being added is
significant.

lawyerliz (profile) wrote on Sun, 7/26/2009 - 2:13 pm

P'ses me off when friends and relatives ask for advise, get
it and they repeatedly ignore me and continue to screw up.
\
I have gotten quite tart with them.

I get this with computer problems, particularly with relatives. If I had an uncle who was a plumber, I wouldn't ask him to stop by and fix a leaky sink for me for free just because that's what he does for a living. I've seen it with doctors too, where it would get even more annoying I'm sure.

With an independent-thinking, competent person who was honest and wanted reasonable compensation, advice's worth would probably be fairly close to the true unknown value. Which is probably why a society that values honesty and competence and recognizes the need to pay a reasonable price tends to work pretty well, even if it is primitive... There are always parasites and sociopaths but they are marginalized and outed and/or punished.

KR-

Do you have some kind of weblink to an article that shows this is being expanded through the G20. I'm wondering why....the main commentary with this has to do with consumer protections on returning checks, and the consumer rules within various G20 countries (US, EU, Saudi Arabia) are vastly, vastly different.

Not sure if the G20 would agree to this if the intent is a new currency....lots of rhetoric amongst the G20 about what the global reserve currency but they would agree if the intent relates to tax havens since there is agreement about tax haven-related issues amongst the G20 (the large industrial countries are the big tax haven losers).

ACH is a transaction clearing network for electronic payments, and notice its in association with the Fed (a private currency issuer), it was formerly USA only, then expanded to Mexico, Canada and then UK. Now its going to the G20. It means, the central clearing for transactions is being extended to 20 economies. There are many ramifications to this, especially for outsourcing payments. To expand on that, is a long conversation.

Isn't this a good thing, KR? (Expanding a ulility like electronic payments.) I really like the Euro's convenience. In the days before national currencies, we all had to barter. Yes, I know it has some advantages, but a common currency is like electricity or other utilities - kinda handy.

Sorry kr, I just don't get it.

Rest of the world is building direct transactions so they can quit using the dollar completely.

Jim Willie's most recent article talks about it.
Hard to gauge the truth of it but it makes some sense.
.
.
Abandoned USDollar & Paradigm Shift

Down by the river,
The pickin's are slim
Tonight 'round the campfire
As dark closes in.

The fishin' is bad.
The apples are gone.
And the kids are all whinin'
And askin' what's wrong,

While the women are
Doin' their best to be strong,
It's a matter of time
'Til we move along.

We follow the sun
As best we could.
Stay by the water.
Stay by the wood.

Scavenge old orchards
For what we can find;
We are experts with slingshots
And pieces of twine.

The occasional squirrel
Is always a treat.
Our diet does not
Consist of much meat.

The men killed a hog
One day with their spears,
And we feasted like kings
Right down to the ears.

The people we meet
Are ragged and thin,
But friendly and helpful
So we take them in.

In our little band
The rules are few:
Just do unto others
As they do to you.

barfly (profile) wrote on Sun, 7/26/2009 - 2:37 pm

In our little band
The rules are few:
Just do unto others
As they do to you.

In a perverse way, that may be exactly what has to happen.

I was chatting with a gentleman this weekend, and he was grousing about the impact the higher minimum wage was going to have on businesses and employment. I told him that if his business model was dependent upon someone making $6.50 an hour that business wasn't a good candidate to make it in the long run. My feelings are the same here. The credit card companies received almost half their revenue from late fees/over-the-credit-limit fees/cash advance fees etc. If your well being is dependent upon your customer acting irresponsibly and recklessly, don't be shocked when they don't show up to pull you out of the ditch.

Quite frankly, ruthless default is the mildest thing folks could do to bankers. During the Great Depression, people were known to hang bankers and their agents as they came out to auction the farm.

"Quite frankly, ruthless default is the mildest thing folks could do to bankers. "

Sigh, I don't see any progress in people's understanding. Large-scale ruthless defaults will cost a lot of money, and most of those costs will be borne by US taxpayers. I don't know why we are advocating "screw the taxpayer" policies. (I'd be happy to see the lending banks and other institutions, and their depositors, take the losses, but this is politically impossible.)

To paraphrase, "it is hard to get a man to understand, when his ruthless default gain depends on him not understanding".

The American Credit Card holder has kissed the banking frog which turned into
a trillion dollar pig.

As Congress put it......oink ....oink

You still have faith in the system. I don't. I'm just a pawn in the aristocrasy's game.

patientrenter (profile) wrote on Sun, 7/26/2009 - 2:52 pm

Sigh, I don't see any progress in people's understanding. Large-scale ruthless defaults will cost a lot of money, and most of those costs will be borne by US taxpayers. I don't know why we are advocating "screw the taxpayer" policies. (I'd be happy to see the lending banks and other institutions, and their depositors, take the losses, but this is politically impossible.)

It will also force lenders, who are already skittish with credit, to adopt higher credit standards, as their models require them to based on default rates and related expectancies. Paradoxically, this will actually contract the availability of credit, and cause institutions to be even more risk-averse and unwilling to make the loans necessary to economic growth. Extending credit for consumption and a debt-financed lifestyle is a net loss for society.

PR,

Good article. Did you look at any of the other articles listed at the bottom of the page? One: Arbitration: No longer an easy out for credit card companies? -- DailyFinance

It's about how the Minnesota AG's litigation against the National Arbitrator's association & American Arbitrator's Ass'n has demonstrated major conflicts of interest exist for members of either entity in arbitrating credit card issuer vs. user conflicts (mandated in most credit card agreements) or similar auto manufacturer agreements. Litigation has been apparently been sufficiently successful that both have decided not to do any more consumer credit arbitrations.

Nice to see that at least a few states are looking out for the interests of their residents.

Probably more work for Congressional lobbyists, pushing Congress to limit the rights of states to protect their residents from predatory corporations.

Honestly I am dumbfounded by CRs comments on Bernanke. His record not only shows that he lacks the foresight to have foreseen a calamity obvious to many but that he also lacks the moral fiber to be trusted with impartial and even handed regulation over the banking sector.

Exhibit A = Merrill lynch "merger" with BAC.

Preserving the system as it stands will lead to further boom and busts and pain for millions in the future.

-Tim Disappointed in 2009

Lobbyist, the All American Fool is now called the "term a la modern" VICTIM. It's all the rage. Reminds me of my father after coming home from WWII telling my mother that it was just amazing...he didn't meet a single nazi in germany...Hitler just captured the whole country by himself and forced them (yes I know it is tragic) yes forced to carry out the war. If it goes well, I am a genius, if it fails I was a victim. Americans are children.

What is frustrating to me that Tim 2012 has suggested is that we've gone through all of this for nothing. The TPTB are still in place, USD is still the reserve currency, Goldman still runs the country, and because of that we're just being set up for the next bubble.

badger (profile) wrote:" You still have faith in the system. I don't. I'm just a pawn in the aristocrasy's game."

Of course you are. But at least you are on the board, and if you play your cards right, you can become a knight. This century is not the worst one to be alive in.

Bankers or terrorists

Nothing has changed. we are just more broke and more unemployed than we were 2 years ago.

OT:

Alright, who bought this?
I know one of you must have...

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A small pistol belonging to 1930s gangster John Dillinger has been sold at auction to a private collector for $95,600 -- more than double the pre-sale estimate, the auction house said on Sunday.

The Remington .41 caliber Double Derringer was said to have been found hidden in one of Dillinger's socks when he was arrested in Tucson, Arizona in January 1934, said Dennis Lowe of Heritage Auction Galleries in Dallas.

According to affidavits, the pistol was given by the then Tucson sheriff to a probation officer and kept in the family until selling it in 1959.

The owner, who wished to remain anonymous, sold it because he was in declining health, Lowe said. It had been expected to fetch about $35,000 - $45,000 at the auction on Saturday in Dallas. A private Los Angeles collector made the winning bid of $95,600.

Dillinger, one of the most infamous bank robbers in the United States in the early 1930s, was shot dead by FBI agents in Chicago in July 1934 at the age of 31.

@danm (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Sun, 7/26/2009 - 1:26 pm
but I have no sympathy for anyone in credit card debt

Ditto
How about trying and live within your REAL means rather than being a pretender

Goldman Sachs. after latching on to the government's teet, is set to give over 150 employees over $1,000,000 in bonuses, and folks are worried about someone taking a cruise to the Carribean and defaulting on their credit card.

Personal bankruptcies will spike in the fall. Scouts promise.

Last thing About CR on Bernanke. at least we all know where CR stands. It will help me put his comments into Perspective from now on.

Re: "Why aren't consumers being educated on the dangers of not paying off their credit card balance each month? "

That, is too fucking funny ....ROTFLMAO and Moohawhahahahhawha, mooha

Methinks the herd is beginning to get nervous...

the herd is getting restless, and bitter

based on what I am hearing out there

"(A fishery is considered collapsed if its annual catch is less than 10 percent of its historical maximum catch.)"

Seems like 10% of historical maximum could be an unsustainable amount (viz, for example Galapagos Turtles).

No wait a tic, before that ride gets underway:

ALFRED: Series: MZM, MZM Money Stock

MZM is still something to watch, as people stop spending cash and stop using credit; we are just phasing into a recession and then onto Great Depression ll.

Look at compounded rate of change over a nice long series... gotta go

Economy: A Little Sunshine

Goldman's peak annual compensation was $20 billion. So, for the 5 worst years of the bubble, they took in less than $100 billion. I wouldn't complain about seeing most of that money taken back, and criminal penalties for the most culpable few dozen people, but this amount pales in comparison to the trillions in losses generated by bad lending during those years. Putting things in perspective can help everyone see more clearly (assuming you haven't already decided what you want to see).

Please..... credit cards, more specifically, debit cards are the new cigarettes, market to minors until they reach adulthood. My kid was given a VISA debit card with a pretty picture on it.

My 18 year old found out, when a vendor ran his card 2x, overdrafting his account for minutes, that BoA charged him $35 for the deal, sent him a post card 9 days later. Didn't attempt to email him, although they require an email address. By the time his post card arrived, there was a total of $175 in fees charged, $35 per transaction. Why? because a VISA debit card allows overdrafts of the checking account (overdrafts only becasue of the first fee)..... a very effective high fee credit card.

The PHeD and Tresury sent these pigs hundreds of millions of dollars so they can continue this practice.

Got the kid the heck out of BoA to a small local bank, one that will not let him over draw, and might pick up the phone if there is a problem. Hopefully, when he goes to college in a few weeks, he resists the credit card application.

Would probably be best to let him struggle on his own, even if he trashes his credit rating in his 20's, he'll be better off understanding the system instead of being bailed out.