Can you perjure yourself?

The judge should throw the book at both of them.

Lucifer-is it a protein or gene?

Wonder which one will blink first LOL

Dumb, just dumb. Although I am sure there is some equally dumb legal reasoning behind this joke. Maybe they will cut a deal out of court?

In regards to Orwell's Fargo...

All banks are equal, but some banks are more equal than others.

hello me

well, hello myself

This is what we have been saying, folk. They don't know and thanks to securitization probably cannot prove title. No doubt they laid off their bet, in both instances. It's like when you hit your number and Vinny says, "What number?"

Are we SURE these guys are "Too Big to Fail"?

They seem to be doing it anyway.

Disclosure: our family has a significant banking relationship with WFC. Which is now a source of deep embarrassment.

Luci: Yes you can perjure yourself, but you won't enjoy it.

My educated guess :

Mortgage folks hold the first lien
Home Equity folks hold the second
They are different divisions and profit centers within WFC, hence the need for legal resolution.

It's the sheath Lawyer stimulus package

When you have stopped sucking up to management in your company.. I will answer that question.

PS- Isn't the concept of mRNA therapeutics based on the mRNA =- protein concept.

//is it a protein or gene?//

Now tha's what I'm talkin' 'bout, g'dam't! A bank suing it's own self is just too g'dam perfect in this world.

Just good, clean fun all around.

Wisdom Speaker, WFC is my bank too - and I like their online systems, customer service, etc. But I'll still make fun of them!

best wishes

I thought the research was going more siRNA

sue,

when we have a drug based on that research in the clinic for something other than a rare diseases.. let me know!

only if your rip van winkle will you live to see that

Wells Fargo is my primary holder. We were so dissatisfied we re-fid to get away. When our juicy loan fell off their books they shopped to fill the hole. Yup, they bought our new loan at close to two hundred points lower than what they ere offering on a refi through them. Make fun of them all you want. Besides, they've got so much California exposure if you don't make the jokes now you might not get the chance.

It seems that law and order in Pharonic egypt was much more modern and impartial than today's egypt.. who knew!

Law and order in ancient Egypt

I made my living developing HTS tools for big pharma, now I'm into the antibody area.

CalculatedRisk,

Which one of those WFCs is your bank.. the plaintiff or the defendant?

scored an entire box of .357 mag at walmart today. hoocoodanode!

if you don't make the jokes now you might not get the chance.

They are different divisions and profit centers within WFC, hence the need for legal resolution.

Not sure that makes it make sense.

Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.

Eric Blair

WFC is not only my mortgage servicer, they took over the settlement on my CC machine at werk....First Data Collections are belongz to Uz.

*uZ is WFC till it aint.
-1a

Seriously, I suggested this years ago. Lock the lenders in a room and force them to trade paper to get all the liens with one lender/servicer. Looks like it wasn't such a good idea.

Which part of WFC triggers the MTM losses that they might hold in the even of judgment against either one or both of them? What if it triggers a credit event?

C

I think the only way to fix this is to devalue the currency in one big swoop. Take care of entitlements, debt payments and underwater homeowners in one fell swoop. Cram down the foreign creditors by about 25-30% and let them be thankful the US isn't Chrysler.

This will increase EPS for Buffett, right?

Tanta would have had a lot of fun and insight on this, having seen inside the bowels of the lenders. I assume this will get settled quickly:), especially after that story.

Maybe the marketing team could help with this? Rename the parties WFC (Perp) and WFC (Mark) for instance.

C

sue,

HTS.. That is pharmas version of SIVs.

Since someone brought it up...

75K mortgage = WFC
4K car = WF Auto
Employer = Owns WF and us

Hit? 100K or so.

Thanks for playing, tho.

sue, there is no fix, stop straining

they have sold, reshuffled, sliced, diced, made julienne fries out of every mortgage, credit card, car, boat, RV, CRE, HELOC and probably several litters of unregistered puppies and an alley cat.

nobody knows who owns what or who owes who or who got a cover on which bet

Wells Fargo Land Grant Banc, a small bizniess financial leader....crushing the life out of my money one mortgage payment and CC settlement at a time.

I've been thinking about an outside-the-box solution to this problem.

Suppose Joe Blow is 52 years old and seriously underwater. He's unemployed, has no money, and can't pay his mortgage. He's going to get foreclosed.

But instead, Obama says, Joe, we will let you avoid foreclosure, if you want, by commuting the future value of your Social Security benefits. Not promises of benefits, what it actually shows on your statement your benefits are estimated to be worth right now. The present value.

You have to use the money to pay off your mortgage on time, and you have to realize that if you're 65 and broke, you're on your own.

You might say that this can't happen because Social Security isn't guaranteed. It didn't use to be. But I think it is now.

I know people who a few years ago were talking about how they would donate their benefits to charity when they retired. They didn't need such a piddly sum. Now, it's become their lifeline.

After this recession is over, there will be tens of millions like that. I think people age 50 or over already are about a majority of the electorate.

Psychological dependence on Social Security now goes lower in age, certainly 50 and maybe 45.

Too many voters need the money too bad. Why shouldn't Obama go ahead and give it to them? And then just print more?

"13 homes sell instantly at new Irvine project
July 11th, 2009, 4:02 pm · 11 Comments · posted by Jon Lansner"

From OC register; Irvine is special!

13 homes sell instantly at new Irvine project - Lansner on Real Estate : The Orange County Register

Wouldn't it be cheaper to do a cram down than to sue yourself?

rich said:
Why shouldn't Obama go ahead and give it to them? And then just print more?

The days of Fedprint are numbered. 6 months and the markets balk? 2 years and IMF oversite? Who knows? Still on the time scales you posit it will be the reality.

All our best men are laughed at in this nightmare land.

Jack Kerouac

sue,

HTS.. That is pharmas version of SIVs.

rich, your proposal is functionally the same as forgiving the loan. Paying off a loan from future social security, for people who have proven they cannot manage their money, simply creates the need in the future for another new program that pays that social security amount anyway. Just foreclose and get on with it.

have I shared too much already?

lets do Final Orders Pursuant to 11 USC 105(a) and 362 Establishing Notification Procedures and Approving Restrictions on Certain TRANSFERS OF INTEREST IN THE DEBTORS' ESTATES

US Bankruptcy Court Southern District of New York
*In re
General Motors Corp, . et al.

Lucifer,

I really thought the quality of the combinatorial libraries made the whole screening process pretty useless. The companies with good compounds (generally the old german and swiss companies) use it very effectively. Everybody else which now includes NIH and 15-20 academic centers went down their own dark alley. Have you heard there might be a major breakthrough in Alzheimer's treatment , basis is nutritional deficiency.

HTS = manifestation of belief that we understood drug discovery.

"nutritional deficiency" Can you tell us more, sue? (I have a family history of Alzheimer's.)

"You have to use the money to pay off your mortgage on time, and you have to realize that if you're 65 and broke, you're on your own."

I doubt that this would work. They lose all their money, they're on the streets at 65, they're somebody's problem. They'll still cost society money, maybe more than if they were on SS. And because this is a democracy, influential parts of society can claim endless do-overs. We're seeing that among the powerful now.

Unless we get to the point where we as a society just put a gun to their heads and off 'em, equivalent of Eskimos putting the old out on ice floes to die. Not a good place to go. But if we did go, we should start now, on Wall Street.

(disclaimer for the Secret Service; no, I didn't mean it. Really. Irony irony irony)

sue,

HTS could have worked only if we understood the role of a particular protein in the human version of a disease.

Reality = We have no clue!

rich - so the Feds would wipe out Joe's odious debt today and liquidate their odious obligation in the future...

I'm not sure I understand this country.

nytol

C

sue, the currency devaluation is what a lot of people think will be made to happen. If the govt were planning to do it, they would get top marks for making all the right moves in that direction now. But it will take a year or two to get going. It's called inflation.

Let's say you gave me the grandido a month now from SS, that i'm due in just 16 short years?

What do I do for money when i'm 64?

sue,

AD is my current of research.. we know much less than we think about AD.

I came here for info on hormones

PS I am using my iPhone, so excuse my spelling and missng words.

The results of a couple studies are being presented tomorrow in Austria, NIH conducted one of them. I'm not sure the magnitude of the impact so I'm speculating but it relates to fatty acid deficiency.

can kcoop make the message box less laggy on the iPhone browser.

Lucifer,

I agree with you for the most part, we have no clue and the interactions are much more complex than any in-vitro model can predict.

dawg, hold on tight.

puttiing italiics after my handle implies I said that

keep yer seat.

Do we have a Justice Dept. anymore? I know people show up there and collect paychecks, but do they actually pursue any crimes anymore? Has any school system in the country ever been investigated for embezzlement, fraud and outright theft?
Sent my youngest brother who's the principal of an elementary school for disabled kids in Buffalo the Mish link that Detroit's public schools may declare bankruptcy. His response...Buffalo schools have blown thru 1 billion in less than 5 years on improving the "physical plant". He says it's theft, under the table kickbacks to vendors, half-done work by unlicensed contractors who turn out to be family member of administrators, special tutoring programs at high hourly rates that turn into card games for teachers since no kids are enrolled, and more outright theft. He says there has been zero investigation, zero prosecution. Is this the norm?

fried.

dont overpersonalize the survivior bias.

Patientrenter,

Couldn't agree more, I think we are going to try to do a little bit of everything. Default on some debt, devalue, raise taxes, reduce pensions and health care costs-the some of all the forces at play here just scream towards a one time devlaluation.

fried - i think this is the case.

thus, my prediction that many cities are going to be war zones sooner rather than later.

but that's just me.

fried, it's always amusing to me to see vast amount of education money flow into buildings and equipment and supplemental employees. Simple classrooms, with well-paid teachers and tough teaching standards and real competition, ditching of the obsession on low class sizes, and just a principal and 3-4 total overhead employees per school would be much cheaper and more effective than our current system. But a lot of people would lose their gravy.

Sounds like an Onion headline

I tend to agree patientrenter, -reading, writing and math (with alot problem solving) would cover 80% of what needs to be done.

sue, I hope a nice prime ribeye has a lot of fatty acids. If so, and the new theory is correct, I should be safe from Alzheimer's. (Tongue in cheek, of course.)

zucchini, boot stomping CR for 3 minutes and 40 seconds...

51 to 256 on a Saturday night....

76th

ignores 15

Back to WFC:

They are different divisions and profit centers within WFC, hence the need for legal resolution.
Not sure that makes it make sense.

When a company is so large and unwieldy that it requires the nation's legal systems to sort out its internal problems, it's too big to survive.

Time for a wave of spinoffs, boys. The mergers and acquisitions didn't work out as expected. The corporate capital structure only has enough buoyancy to float our part of the ship; you'll have to sink-or-swim...

On a personal note:

(1) We have mortgage, CC and 2 IRA trading accounts with WFC. We don't expect WFC to survive. When WFC stock falls below $20 we will start scaling back our positions; below $10 we'll turtle into the FDIC-insured sweep account. Below $5 we'll move the assets altogether. We have relationships with more stable financial institutions (Vanguard, local credit union & USAA) to facilitate this in its various aspects.

(2) We had our primary family checking accounts with Bank of America. We've now backed those up with the other institutions as well.

(3) We never ever use a "market" order with the WFC IRA "WellsTrade" platform. Been robbed two or three times that way. (We probably get robbed by Goldman on the limit orders instead, but at least we've "pricelined" the trade...

My educated guess :

Mortgage folks hold the first lien
Home Equity folks hold the second
They are different divisions and profit centers within WFC, hence the need for legal resolution.

I think you nailed it. But they might not even be separate profit centers - just different managers fighting for their bonus. A similar example from my [mfg] past...

I was calling on a big MNC [~$10B/yr rev - makes controls & similar stuff]... The Global Commodity Mgr I was calling on controlled stampings [metal parts stamped & formed out of sheets of metal]. He was asking us for 'cost downs'... meaning he wanted us to cut price so much per year [say 5%]. We were resisting since the margins were so tight already.

Turns out a number of these stampings then went into 'insert molded' plastic parts... meaning somebody took those stamped parts and molded plastic around them... similar to what you see on an electrical plug only these parts were way more expensive & complex.

I knew the Plastics Commodity Mgr too... so I asked the stamping mgr:

"Lets say we have this stamping... and it costs 10 cents. And after it is over molded costs a dollar... say we were to retool the stamping die to produce a part to make it easier to mold over... and lets say it increases the cost of the stamping by a penny but reduces the overall molded part by a dime [total cost now 91 cents versus a dollar]... would you as the stamping buyer approve that change?"

He said straight up - no blinking:

"No. I would have to oppose that proposal. In fact I would rather you found a way to cut the price of the stamping by a penny even if it increased the cost of the molded part by a dime [total cost $1.09]."

He then continued... "You see I get graded on my price variance no matter what. Same with the plastics commodity manager with his parts. If I took the increase... I get 'graded down' and he'd get 'graded up'... I'd get less bonus and he'd get more... even if the company benefits it would be in my best interest to find a quiet way to scuttle that proposal. If I let too many of those through I might even get fired."

They were using Welch's GE system for employee grading based on 'individual performance' and it very much incentivized managers to take care of number one regardless of what happened to the overall company.

I would not be shocked at all to find 'similar motivation' at work in the WF lawsuit.

P.S. On the Arizona (and other) utility companies raising rates --- I believe part of the problem is that they have a lot of deadbeats on the rolls. They also have line networks to maintain that run out into new housing develpments that are now grossly under-subscribed. High fixed costs and declining sales requires higher unit charges to balance the books...

I'm not sure that ribeye is going to cut it, maybe some salmon steaks.

New GM: We have no bad assets
Old GM: You owe us for the assets you had taken
New GM: So sue me
Old GM: We will
New GM: Na Na Nana Na
Old GM: Well see about that

only the lawyers get rich....but hey! I've heard a good deal are now hurting big time!! Maybe there is a Gawd.

Only one bank failure this week, guess the FDIC has a bunch of people taking a summer vacation this week.

dryfly,
that management system gets the big will fail.

Larry Summers thinks the worst is yet to come, but that quote is in the FT.

Not for domestic sheeple consumption.

Arizona utilities overexpanded, and they will recover it out of the consumers who are left.

A lot of commercial is dark right now, and those are the most profitable electric accounts.

Someday this war's gonna end...

dryfly.

Im still taking down hourly wages and cutting benefits packages, while burning inventory down to JIT..

Watching a bit of TV while doing some personal work. On Suze Orman right now (I like watching trainwrecks) there's a 28 year old guy on. This guy had 2 bankruptcies before; he ran up 70k on credit cards the first time, and had 600k mortgages the second time. Now he owes 200k on 60 credit cards (half is in his parent's credit cards...his parents owe 190k).

At age 28, he has ran up a million dollar debt. He eats out and spends money on starbucks...about $1k a month.

The parents are 63 years old, retired. they have 250k in retirement, and 300k house (with 200k mortgages), so 100k equities.

Suze Orman responds "you're a good person. You just have to tell your parents to stop helping you financially"

Make your own judgement.....who's at fault here ultimately?

I only come into this bar to hear a sad song.

how do I sleep, how do I look at my people and carry on?

solitary thinking and lonesome drinking.....

sure do feel at home round here.

Time for a wave of spinoffs, boys.

Tend to agree with you there; I just checked the latest WFC annual report, mortgage and HELOC are different divisions all right. WFC states their HELOC outstandings were wrth ~80B , about 25% of the total. Spinoffs make lot of sense.

Hey Scrooge,

It's amazing we extended somebody that much credit within 10 years of turning 18

dryfly.

Im still taking down hourly wages and cutting benefits packages, while burning inventory down to JIT..

That big MNC I mentioned is doing all of that too - except they also then expect their suppliers to bail them out if JIT is not quite in time. Always worked before but isn't going to happen this time... their suppliers are all going bye-bye.

Sounds like an Onion headline

Nah, too boring, here is a sample of real Onion headlines

Obama Revises Campaign Promise Of 'Change' To 'Relatively Minor Readjustments In Certain Favorable Policy Areas'
WASHINGTON—In a slight shift from his campaign trail promise, President Obama announced Monday that his administration's message of "Change" has been modified to the somewhat more restrained slogan "Relatively Minor Readjustments in Certain Favorable Policy Areas." "Today, Americans face a great many challenges, and I hear your desperate calls for barely measurable and largely symbolic improvements in the status quo," said Obama, who vowed never to waver in his fight for every last infinitesimal nudge forward on the controversial issues of torture and the military ban on homosexuals. "Remember: Yes we can, if by that you mean tiptoeing around potentially unpopular decisions that could alienate a large segment of the populace." Washington insiders said that, while the new mottos are certainly in keeping with Obama's pledge of government transparency, they are significantly less catchy.

In Attempt To Jump-Start Economy, Obama Declares Tuesdays Ladies' Night
WASHINGTON—As part of his administration's continued efforts to stimulate the economy and liven up a slow weeknight, President Obama announced today that, effective immediately, Tuesdays will be half-off for ladies nationwide. "It is imperative to our economic health that we inject capital wisely and get some blondes in here, preferably hot young ones," said Obama, who submitted a proposal before Congress to increase tube-top usage by 200 percent. "We can only escape this recession with the full cooperation of the American people—so ladies, please, bring your girlfriends. When did this country turn into such a sausage fest?" According to estimates by the Department of the Interior, the first national Ladies' Night will be attended by an estimated 117 million men and one bachelorette party.

Obama Drastically Scales Back Goals For America After Visiting Denny's
Obama will abandon complex policies on emissions, clean coal and refocus on achievable goals like applying deodorant daily, learning what to say when you burp

Reality has a long way to go before it can catch with art

Utility companies are raising rates because of the need to build transmission lines to renewable generation and then the cost of that generation once it's delivering to the grid. The only other reason a utility would be significantly raising rates this year is because there may be a one-year lag in the mechanism to pass through the costs of purchasing gas to consumers.

In other news, there's another nice economic time series animation up for home prices by city, and income.

The only other reason a utility would be significantly raising rates this year is because there may be a one-year lag in the mechanism to pass through the costs of purchasing gas to consumers.

That and to see if maybe they can.

"The only other reason a utility would be significantly raising rates this year is because there may be a one-year lag in the mechanism to pass through the costs of purchasing gas to consumers."

Or if they hedged gas at the wrong price.

well played Mrm.

thats pro stuff...

who wants a youtibe linky to Sarkozy fanny gazing?

I'll do it......

"But a lot of people would lose their gravy."

patientrenter,
in a town like Buffalo, a billion dollars is river of gold. I grew up there and I'm not exaggerating. If school systems are never investigated by AG's or even the laggards at the Justice dept. (since they do get Fed dollars), then it's wholesale theft without consequences. I got my bro to get out of the 403b offered by the school system...via Metlife....man what a bunch of thieves those bums are...another sweetheart deal arranged by local politicians.

The utilities are raising rates because costs only go up for chartered monopolies.

seriously, I gotta go.
but I watch ya'll like one hawk..

CR writes: Your TARP money hard at work ...

But wait, there is more!

AIG Plans Millions More in Bonuses
Troubled Insurer Is In Talks With U.S. Over $250 Million

American International Group's recent discussions with President Obama's compensation czar have centered on whether the company should pay about $250 million in promised bonuses that come due during the next nine months.
AIG has asked the government to rule on several categories of bonuses, said a person familiar with the discussions. These include millions of dollars in payments owed to top corporate executives in coming days, and the troubled insurer has been seeking senior Treasury official Kenneth R. Feinberg's consent in an effort to provide the company with political cover.
But of greater concern to both sides is what to do about the vastly larger sum that comes due in March 2010, when AIG is scheduled to pay more than $200 million in bonuses aimed at retaining executives at AIG Financial Products, the unit whose complex derivative contracts nearly wrecked the insurance giant last fall.
A public furor erupted earlier this year when AIG paid about $165 million in retention bonuses to Financial Products employees. The contracts that guaranteed those awards also promised similar payments in March 2010, and AIG has been examining the issue in hopes of preventing another debacle, company officials have said.
...
AIG spokeswoman Christina Pretto said the company had sought the government's input in an effort to resolve its lingering pay issues the right way and to make sure all parties were comfortable before moving forward.
"We all have the same objective -- to execute the restructuring successfully, to repay taxpayers, to reduce risk and to wind down [Financial Products]," Pretto said.

I really need another glass

Stop working. Seriously, it's the only way to get them to quit stealing - if they have no way of stealing it.

dryfly;
"That big MNC I mentioned is doing all of that too - except they also then expect their suppliers to bail them out if JIT is not quite in time. Always worked before but isn't going to happen this time... their suppliers are all going bye-bye."

That was a scary story you told - the self-destructive GE-isms. BTW, nice to see that GE is getting theirs lately. I have seen those same sort of self-destructive HR games in large software development operations - and you wonder why so much software is garbage... Wink

Before long, the remaining suppliers will be dictating terms, unless the MNCs can find a country someplace that is willing to finance the creation of new suppliers, or the MNCs can bring parts production in house. I wonder which they will try first?

I really need another glass

...full of glue.

And if I stop working I buy food with what?
Can't live in my car, still owe on it.

Not a box I can check.

I really need another glass
...full of glue.

I prefer drinking to sniffing, thank you very much

"The contracts that guaranteed those awards also promised similar payments in March 2010, and AIG has been examining the issue in hopes of preventing another debacle, company officials have said."

A BK sure would have been helpful in renegotiating those contracts. Plus, wiping out all of the naked CDS they are on the hook for. Of course GS and UBS might not like that too much.

josap, just how many repo guys do you think there are?

it's the same with mortgages, CCs, etc. if enough people quit, they can't handle the outcomes effectively (or fast enough).

hate to be that way but damn it's hard not to do so.

Stop working. Seriously, it's the only way to get them to quit stealing - if they have no way of stealing it.

Call it Paradox of Working<a/>

This looks like a fine place for a restraining order. The judge can order Wells not to sue itself. If it violates the order, the court can collect contempt fees.

RD,
Versus IPP's who have so successfully driven down the cost of electricity in this country and brought innovation to the marketplace? You gonna argue that energy marketing and trading arms of the financial firms have not more fully exploited PJM and NYISO deregulated markets as compared to the CA market in early '00's? I've worked too long on the dereg side to be fooled by the old standby that chartered utilities are the devil's kin.

Before long, the remaining suppliers will be dictating terms, unless the MNCs can find a country someplace that is willing to finance the creation of new suppliers, or the MNCs can bring parts production in house. I wonder which they will try first?

The MNCs are trying it all - shotgun approach. Seriously big issues though...

If the go developing country route they run in to (1) dollar anxiety and (2) IP concerns - who owns the important IP? They would all like to be Apple but not every product is as cute as an I phone [candy apple green hydraulic pumps buried deep in a machine don't command any more money than a gray one].

If they go in-house were do the techs & mfg experts come from? Damn few of those around and most of them got lots of gray hair. Thinking about their own personal van down by the river.

Tough jam the MNCs got themselves into and as a result it is a jam they have got the whole country into too. But we let 'em do it so what can we say?

BTW - Welch is one of my candidates for Lucifer's Inner Circle. Stoke it Lucie, stoke it.

Of course GS and UBS might not like that too much.

That is why it is not going to happen

BTW - Welch is one of my candidates for Lucifer's Inner Circle. Stoke it Lucie, stoke it.

I am no Lucie, but while she is fetching her XXXL-sized fork this one might do
Jack Welch, who is regarded as the father of the “shareholder value” movement that has dominated the corporate world for more than 20 years, has said it was “a dumb idea” for executives to focus so heavily on quarterly profits and share price gains.

PS. I randomly assumed Lucifer is a she

"They were using Welch's GE system for employee grading based on 'individual performance' and it very much incentivized managers to take care of number one regardless of what happened to the overall company."

Same thing at Dell, another big Welsh subscriber, every department trying to push costs off on each other, with no one in charge of the big picture view. Tons of special "costs savings" efforts that get used once, bonused an quickly discarded as impractical. Total dysfunction. If it were not for the inertia of those few who know what they are doing, they might as well shut down.

Oh no, the dreaded double post!
I am talking to myself...
Time to do something totally different, before I end up suing myself
Good night, all

A bank suing itself is entirely reasonable, and also awesome. I recommend that the defendant file a counterclaim and a third party claim against Wells Fargo's credit card division.

If you want to see some real fine litigation that apparently did not generate sufficient fees for the lawyers, look here:

United States ex rel. Gerald Mayo v. Satan and His Staff - Wikisource

You might want to read about church's fascination with the appearance of the devil's penis.

@dryfly: "I'm still taking down hourly wages and cutting benefits packages, while burning inventory down to JIT.. That big MNC I mentioned is doing all of that too - except they also then expect their suppliers to bail them out if JIT is not quite in time..."

I seem to recall a lot of discussion last summer/fall about how the JIT inventory approach was going to run into Pandora's box when the supplier and transportation networks were disrupted by bankruptcies. The implications for food and energy supplies were the most disturbing.

Intriguing thought: If the regulated utilities become sufficiently inefficient, the home solar approach actually starts to make economic sense. (I've always figured that if home solar made sense, economies of scale would make big-utility mass solar even more sensible. But I am now seeing that rationality is playing a declining role in practical economics.)

Wisdom,
The supply pipeline is getting very narrow. My nephew is having problems with durable medical equipment. Certain types of construction materials are out of stock. I already mentioned patio furniture at Target. I expect the next step will be a reduction in SKUs. Then the reality hits home maybe this fall when spot shortages in fresh foods shows up in some regions. Maybe it starts with raspberries at Thanksgiving but it will spread to things taken for granted like year round oranges.

This case promises recursive logic when racking legal fees, and was thus made for the lawfirm of Hoopajoops and Hoopajoops, LLC. The law firm of Hoopajoops and Hoopajoops, LLC, formerly Hoopajoops LTD, Structured Securities Brokers, is a small boutique firm geared towards serving clients with special legal needs arising from the purchase, unwinding, or government sponsored unwinding-purchase-unwinding-purchase, of innovative security instruments, such as those offered by the formerly licensed security brokers at Hoopajoops LTD.

In one instance, one of our clients was a specially formed LLC created with no assets except the right to sue the parent company that formed it in connection with certain toxic securities it received in the process of being capitalized at its inception. The parent company itself is embroiled in a lawsuit against its own subsidiary arising out of a counterclaim from the first suit, as the subsidiary is itself the collateral supporting the securities forming the basis of its own lawsuit. It's a terribly complicated situation, at a total deadlock, but it must be resolved for our credit markets to begin flowing again. The paperwork connected with this suit alone is massive - without taking into account the thousands upon hundreds of thousands of similar shell companies which have mysteriously formed and engaged our firm, Hoopajoops & Hoopajoops LLC for similar recursive securities litigations. Accordingly, the paperwork for this disaster constitutes a "shovel ready" project under the stimulus bill, and the federal government has kindly decided to foot the bill while we clean up.

CR community to wells fargo

"slap yourself"

"Total dysfunction."

i don't see any of the big names in tech - dell, ibm, hpq, msft, goog, intc, aapl, sne - positioned for growth in revenue and profits from here. aapl may be an exception, but they're still ridiculously overpriced at over 100 bil market cap.

it is almost impossible to be creative and aggressive with a 10,000 employee+ company. doing it in a crappy economy is nearly impossible. aapl and atvi are the only ones who succeeded in the past five years - how will the other sad sacks do in a depression if they couldn't meaningfully grow during the good times?

Amending one of Gen. Patton's famous quotes, I've decided that it applies to our current working system of capitalism/merchantlism/etc:

It isn't important that you spend your money for the economy; it's important for the idiot on the other side to spend his money for the economy.

It seems to apply to the growth of the Asian Tigers, Wall Street, and other areas. China grew through our consumption just as Japan, Taiwan, and S. Korea did before it. Wall Street got fat from finding other people who could be parted from their money (investors) and other people who could be expected to deplete lines of credit (debtors). As long as you were on the right side of equation, you could expect favorable results. However, once the number of people on the other side declined or were depleted, there isn't much you can do except sacrificing your "own". Even at that point, there will be a point where the new "right side" of the equation gets low and either the "left side" is affected through its own attrition or rinsing & repeating previous steps.

Maybe Pres. Duyba wasn't wrong after 9/11 to get the America flock to spend again. We just misidentified where we fit into the equation. *

  • I use the word "we" loosely.

"If I wanted to destroy a nation, I would give it too much and I would have it on its knees, miserable, greedy and sick."

John Steinbeck 1966

been posted before worth repeating

"Maybe Pres. Duyba wasn't wrong after 9/11 to get the America flock to spend again. "

The problem is that most of that consumer activity was spent on low-value crap overseas and a gigantic portion of it involved imaginary housing wealth.

In southern california, at least a third of the population has seen their household lose at least 200K in housing equity value. That is a wee bit deflationary.

If they pay the lawyers, Wells Fargo is in breach of its fiduciary duty, and the filing lawyers probably liable for malpractice.

The problem is that most of that consumer activity was spent on low-value crap overseas and a gigantic portion of it involved imaginary housing wealth.

Again, Dubya's "Patton" executed his strategies correctly. He got the "other side's" people to financially die for their cause (low-value crap and inflated housing wealth) instead of having his side die for their cause (centralizing wealth and socialized their costs).

I'm not sure if I could call it a Ponzi Scheme under this situation, or the line is rather gray and hazy. Yes, people were lead astray, but they weren't really trying to not being separated from the flock.

If they pay the lawyers, Wells Fargo is in breach of its fiduciary duty, and the filing lawyers probably liable for malpractice.

Another old lawyer's saw:

Behind every (sleazy/stupid/greedy) lawyer is a (sleazy/stupid/greedy) client.

As to the last thread, I had pointed out the deterrence issue clearly in the thread to the prior post about modifications.

These expected numbers (recovery, redefault, self-cure...) change when large masses of the "other side" of a trade (borrowers) gain easy access to cheap information about "market prices". "Moral" considerations about making or paying back a loan don't adapt nearly as fast as a granny learns Googling. 'It was just business, Mikey, I always liked you'.

I already mentioned patio furniture at Target

OMG, the horror.
What next?
A shortage of charcoal briquettes?

How will we survive?

Great.. I probably won a billion dollars


Retail Probably Rose, Factory Slump Eased: U.S. Economy Preview
Retail Probably Rose, Factory Slump Eased: U.S. Economy Preview - Bloomberg.com
By Shobhana Chandra

July 12 (Bloomberg) -- Retail sales in the U.S. probably increased in June for a second straight month and factory production fell at a slower pace as the recession abated, economists said before reports this week. Sales gained 0.4 percent after a 0.5 percent increase in May, according to the median estimate in a Bloomberg News survey before the Commerce Department’s report on July 14. The next day, Federal Reserve figures may show industrial output fell 0.6 percent last month after a 1.1 percent drop in May.

Maybe he should have followed his own advice?


Warren Buffett's Top Three Investment Rules for the Average American
Warren Buffett's Top Three Investment Rules for the Average American - CNBC

Published: Friday, 10 Jul 2009

.....Buffett's response:

If it seems too good to be true, it probably is.

Always look at how much the other guy is making when he is trying to sell you something.

Stay away from leverage. Nobody ever goes broke that doesn't owe money.....

Charcoal can be made from bankers..

//A shortage of charcoal briquettes?//

Luci: mebbe so but it'd smell funny

Patently ridiculous. When I sued myself, I didn't bother with outside help, I self represented on both sides. My counsel advised arbitration, but the other side was playing hard ball. But by brilliant legal maneuvering I managed to outsmart the other side and won a huge award, although there may be trouble, since we're asking the judgment be set aside, since the judge (also myself) clearly had conflicts of interests and should have recused himself. (Some allegations of a sexual liaison too, but let's not go there.) Why did I sue myself? Two words "Deep pockets"

I hope Wells Fargo counter sues. Maybe for spurious and malicious prosecution or defamation of character. It would also be particularly delicious if the defendants, led by Wells Fargo, really stick it to the plaintiff.

PS. I randomly assumed Lucifer is a she

Wow, that would be a level of self loathing that I can't imagine. And yet the idea of her(?) lesbian encounters with hookers is intriguing.

And whatever you tried to cook with it would mysteriously shrink before you even got your first bite.

sdtfs: what makes you think all hookers are female?

Morning, all.
Big smile
Looks like another fine summer morning here in scenic south carolina.

what makes you think all hookers are female?

Define "female".

Interesting confirmation of likely secondary crash, quote from Richard Russell.

Russel is bearish as h**l... - Wall Street Examiner Forums

Most market’s when they decline gradually become oversold. But this decline looks progressively worse as it continues. I’ve said that the span in Lowry’s Buying Power Index and their Selling Pressure Index is continuing to widen. Thus, instead of becoming oversold as the market sinks, the market is simply looking worse. On yesterday’s sell-off, the span between the two Lowry’s Indices widened to its greatest span in history — 790 points. Amazing — and bearish

broward,
Thanks for that. I've been sitting here patiently waiting for everyone to join me. One encouraging sign; there's a town hall format meeting at Cal Lutheran Univ next month discussing the mechanics of a Constitutional Convention. That it is at a school named after Martin Luther is just icing.

In the mean time California Daily Fail Links are up including the Socialists' perspective.

California could easily be 5-8 functional States. Splitting into two would just leave squabbling siblings each as dysfunctional as is their similarly sized NY State for the same reasons. Eight States would be a national political power shift that the Democrats would never allow so we are just talking hypotheticals here.

Morning all from the Mary-Nam free-fire zone too.

I think from the comments during the dark bit that Wells is going to take itself all the way to the Supremes, and Hoops will make a mint repping both sides of the play.

Nice work, if you can invent it.

C

I expected that from you broward

I didn't create the 21st Century, I just paid attention in class.

Around 2004, I and a friend looked at automated arbitraging of hard disk manufacturer stocks but once I look at the margins, I concluded that somebody else was already doing it with much higher leverage & capital.

Broward: the upshot of the link I posted is that it explains what some have been observing

they say things like, there's a low volume and only a few traders

thay say this doesn't bode well for the direction of the market

They see the action and scratch their heads, and wait. They're savvy enough to stay out of the way of a steam roller.

Russell knows what the technicals are telling him.

And what effect will this have on the PPT? A growing gang of far removed traders with programs running on all the stocks on all the exchanges, scrapping over a 1/4 cent per share difference. And more coming on line every day.

The genie and the lamp and breathing fresh air and all that.

I've been sitting here patiently waiting for everyone to join me

I was surprised when I saw that thread on DU but there's no clear trend on blogpulse or Google.
I don't think it's a significant meme yet but Google did give me this -

Break up California? - ProfessorBainbridge.com

Even if you get a couple of high-powered proponents and push, the memes won't take hold unless the soil is fertile. Witness the "Going Galt" meme as an example. The Randians pushed it hard and caused a spike but it still died out, most likely because the ideology is too easily refuted.

broward--you had transgendered hookers in class?

seriously, folk, the fact they have the deck stacked, AND they're watching through the security cams for 1/4 cent 'opportunities', is just one more in a litany of surfacing information that led you and I and a few others to leave the casino early. Now, more and more are appreciating in their awareness and realization the sagacity of our decision. Not just us lunatic fringe--the street types as well.

The genie and the lamp and breathing fresh air and all that.

Positive feedback & manipulation of the market is a lot like manipulation of the Internet. It's possible to cause short-term fluctuations but unless there's foundational support, it still dies out. The current market / economy pop is likely a dead-cat bounce being amplified by momentum traders.

dey be trowin de cat down, poor widdle puddy tat, done dead, mebbe it don hurt none

Dawg - that Daily Fail could be a booming linkfest. The Wyoming story was pretty funny, not least for the ads. Looks like local pols are going to get the thick end of the "We're hurting too!" backlash, even though the numbers suggest "Others are more skrood, buddy".

C

Automated market makers co-locate their servers in the NASDAQ or the NYSE building, right next to the exchanges’ servers. AMMs already have faster servers than most institutional and retail investors. But because they are co-located, their servers can react even faster.

Front-running at the hardware level. Smile

GS needs to buy Intel to move forward.

welcome the Borg, we are the Borg, the Borg is good

I'm not completely joking.

GS buying Intel could be extremely creepy.
Many possibilities.

This is not exactly the situation here, but there have reportedly been cases in which one party became the lead plaintiff in a class action and then settled with the defendant on terms that the other plaintiffs felt were too generous. I think HR Block was a defendant in one such situation. It seems to me that here, WFC as one lien holder could do things that damage the other lien holders.

I blogged about the California situation in 2007 here. Lots of good background and links. Be sure to read the comments.

cp,
Yeah, I loved the Wyoming lament. WY pop 533k. Right up there with Monterey County, California.

remember the fourth function of bureaucracy:

4) CYOA

all it takes is one risk averse bureaucrat to get approval on cutting losses at another party's detriment

WY over 1/2 million?

getting downright crowded there

I liked this part:
WHAT CAN BE DONE? . . .
1. Make orders valid for at least one second.

Daytrading is so last century.

anyone else see where the problem genesis was when they changed from fractions to pennies?

(Sears, where America shops in July for xmas crap...)

Oh the market conditions are frightful
But the schadenfreude is so delightful
And since we’ve no place to go
Let It Blow! Let It Blow! Let It Blow!

It doesn’t show signs of stopping
And I’ve bought some corn for popping
Expectations are turned way down low
Let It Blow! Let It Blow! Let It Blow!

When we finally kiss it goodbye
How I’ll love watching sheep being shorn
But if you think that money’s tight
It’s because of the Wall*Street whores

Wall*Street is slowly dying
And, my dear, people are still denying
But as long as you’ve hidden away your dough
Let It Blow! Let It Blow! Let It Blow!

the third strophe is a little weak, and there's some clanks in your rhythm here and there

other than that, I like it

an occasion poem, as in occasionally it will be mistaken for a poem

The mechanism of executing a trade is not the same as valuation.
That takes time & effort, analysis of alternatives, the future, preferences, etc.
Only a person can do that.

The thing will most likely fail in a spectacular fashion.

This case will put satirists out of work, add to the unemployed.

broward: right and it probably makes scant difference, what was I thinking, whatever system they use will be subverted and abused

broward (homepage, profile) wrote on Sun, 7/12/2009 - 4:54 am

The thing will most likely fail in a spectacular fashion.

Two tradebots that differ in the 4th decimal place are gonna get in an infinite heterodyne loop and trade 10^15 shares before anyone can stop them. They might be able to cover it up a few times but they are going to have to address it eventually. Probably when it becomes public knowledge after say, someone "steals" the code.

Gnome - that RedneckGames looks promising. Do they do the propane tank on the bonfire thing at the end of the show?

The key is to set it upside down, with the fittings in the embers. Guarantees a good launch. (Otherwise the expansion goes sideways and you get shrapnel imbedded in the camper sidings, small children, coolers etc).

C

the tubing fail should be titled:

Does this swim suit make my butt look big?

What was the joke President Kennedy used to tell about lawyers..?

I was never aware that Kennedy gave a televised speech the night before he was assassinated until this morning:

The Humor Of President Kennedy (His Final Speech Nov. 21, 1963)

The Humor Of President Kennedy (His Final Speech Nov. 21, 1963) - Home - The Daily Bail - The Bailout News Central Depository. News, Interviews,Videos, Comedy, Songs, Opinion & Analysis

It's pretty short just about 2 minutes.

Fail blog always perks me up after a few too many hours of "gloom and doom"...

Counterpointer, thanks for the tip!
Cool

Gnome - no problemo. Just don't try it indoors.

Alternative antidote du jour: Junior Byles, Beat Down Babylon...
YouTube - Junior Byles "Beat Down Babylon"

C

Orwell's Fargo, the next staged in banking

Orwell's Fargo

A Coen Brothers production.

starring Geo Clooney and Brad Pitt

again

i am amused. redneck games and tradebots crashing the nyse with the supposed help of a russkie. ah, america!

Shhh! Lothar, you'll wake the adults.
Wink

"I think the only way to fix this is to devalue the currency in one big swoop."

.....as volker so eloquently pointed out.......there is no fix for this......

BTW, per up thread, have you EVER known a person that moved to Irvine? They are TOTALLY different. Their lives must be completely controlled for them: "All garage doors shall not be left open for any periods longer than 15-minutes". The Mrs and I toured a house in an HOA development (all houses are HOA) decades ago and she had to kick me innumerable times as I kept drilling the RE gal about their "gestapo calibre" homeowner rules. Lets not forget the "Overnite Guest Application Form" - now THAT was a hoot.

I grew up straddling the OC/LA county line, and things were always much different behind the Orange Curtain...

It was full of John Birchers in the 1960's.

good morning everyone
this is sort of a test to see if i can post . anyone else ever get Access denied when they clicked on save?

.......I probably had to go through your community driving to the beach, AMF (down Hacienda - Beach Blvd.)

I grew up straddling the OC/LA county line

Sounds painful.
Sperm count okay?

I lived across the street from some JB's a few years ago.
Complete with their 8' *4' "Get the US out of the UN" front yard sign.
The gentleman of the home had a FFL and the UPS truck pulled up everyday...

Glad I moved...
Big smile

....to this day, that is a good idea....

JD sure does raise some suspicious subjects

volker - indeed. Including the "I grew up..." intro. I make no such hubristic claims.

C

"...anyone else ever get Access denied when they clicked on save?"


no, but I have received some sternly worded emails from several moderators

volker i dont understand why that you would receive anything like that.

ps i didnt know that we had moderators,except cr himself,thought we were/are self-moderating.

.......JD just explained it all.........living on the OC/LA border did that to people. You lose all your identity. Nobody wants to be known as being from Norwalk, Whittier, or La Mirada........it's a hideous existence........I know..........messes up your entire childhood....

I remember being 13 years old and the principal @ my junior high brought in this Bircher friend of his, to give us a speech to warn us of all the boogeymen, real or imagined...

Even being so young, I knew he was a certifiable crackpot~

......the teacher or the Bircher?

there's very little difference between fishing and standing on the bank looking like an idiot

Some would say we here at CR are "cult followers"
Per Wiki:
As an early predictor of the United States housing bubble, Calculated Risk developed a "cult following" and influence over US fiscal policy.
Calculated Risk - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 

I'm curious; what US fiscal policies has CR influenced?
Big smile

HomeGnome (homepage, profile) wrote on Sun, 7/12/2009 - 5:53 am

As an early predictor of the United States housing bubble, Calculated Risk developed a "cult following" and influence over US fiscal policy.
Calculated Risk - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I'm curious; what US fiscal policies has CR influenced?

The ridicule that was heaped on Super Duper SIV probably had something to do with its quick withdrawal.

Isn't it time to go milk the cow?

robdawg you mean the 3 page order paulson gave out?

Damn.......that's quite a hit-piece...............anyone want any koolaid?

Stop working. Seriously, it's the only way to get them to quit stealing - if they have no way of stealing it.

They have plenty of ways of stealing it.

They can inflate the currency and destroy any cash or bonds that you own.

They can dilute any stocks that you own, and trash them further with big bonuses to management, leveraged buy-outs, etc.

They can increase real and ordinary property taxes to grind away at your assets.

They can convert the roads you drive on to toll roads, and privatize them (sell them to themselves).

They can and they will. Isolation is a losing game. You have to stay connected, and struggle, and do better than average. Otherwise you face destitution.

LOL......soon..............we had an exciting day here yesterday..........all the cows, calves & chickens were loose - 108-degrees and everyone's running around loose like there's someplace nicer to go. What a zoo. Didn't get everyone settled until late last night. Milk yield will be crap today.

there's very little difference between phishing and trolling on the computer

The ridicule that was heaped on Super Duper SIV probably had something to do with its quick withdrawal.

Questionable.
Hasn't worked on Bernanke or Geithner yet.

If we're going to be a cult, I'm going to have to make some Bernanke and Geithner voodoo dolls.
Evil

LOL.......exactly........foamy milk

BSR,

How deep is your well, and where do you hit water at?

BSR, Funnnny, Hope Milkshake is OK.

Morning C

all my neighbors are moving out...........it's becoming quite a ghost town here.....

somebody find JD a measuring table

I thought Milkshake was Michael Jackson's fourth child.

I wonder if I could monetize my time on line in service to my country....

Boast Towns to Ghost Towns all in four years...

Broward.
Sick, man, sick.

Sick

"How deep is your well, and where do you hit water at? "

.....most water here in the valley is hit at about 100-feet. Most wells NOW are drilled to 140-feet. Ours are deeper than that. Two deeper community wells are at 795 and 850-feet.

broward, you have dibs on BSR's couch, play it cool, Oh!!! Who is MJ?

....LOL.........gotta go milk........later......

BSR: more questions--

how wide is your valley

how big is your house

will your sofa accomodate broward AND a naked nubile lady

got any pigs

how many guns do you own

have you ever smoked dope

have you ever entertained the notion of joining a militia

I can do this...

Viva Tanta!
Doris Dungey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 

Couldn't be a Complete UberNerd without her writings.
Grade

Let's say you gave me the grandido a month now from SS, that i'm due in just 16 short years?

What do I do for money when i'm 64?

You would have the opportunity to pay back the money you borrowed from your Social Security account, over time.

There would be a very downscale place where destitute seniors who had spent down their SS prematurely could go and get basic food, cothing and shelter. But not life-prolonging medicare care.

The govt. should show pictures of people living in squalor in this place to discourage younger people from doing the same.

I'm pretty sure that my SS account has ALREADY been borrowed from...
Glasses

Gulag Ameripelago?

"There would be a very downscale place where destitute seniors who had spent down their SS prematurely could go and get basic food, cothing and shelter. But not life-prolonging medicare care."

JD - it's called "Florida".

C

I went hiking in the Florida Alps a few years back...

I got scared of widths, not heights~

I look forward to going scuba-diving in downtown Miami in the not too distant future.

I went hiking in the Florida Alps a few years back...

Susie and Jennie Alps, that is.

Here come the microchips!

SICKENING NEWS OUT OF THE UK AND FOR THE REST OF THE WORLD

The mergers and acquisitions didn't work out as expected.

  • depends upon your objective. If you wanted to kill the competition, gut their pension plan, and sell the factory overseas, and grab a big bonus for your efforts, I'd say it worked out exactly as expected.

Re: Cult
There was an article about a woman that stitches up great looking uniforms, pointed caps and eye holes and all. Each one is a labor of love and is blessed before being sent to its buyer. I think she could whip up something special for the Cultists here on CR. I want to help design the uniform.

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