I actually thought this was about the uptick rule before clicking through......
My first thought was.."sure pull that out of the ass on an op.ex week."
BTW, I missed the auto sales thread, but there's one more demographic factor which tends to undercut the "12-13 million sales/year" idea, and that is that there's a fresh trend towards (a) urbanization of the population, resulting in (b) use of mass transit and/or bicycles rather than autos. Especially if energy prices remain on a "permanently high plateau" (i.e. oil not at $20-$30/barrel). More reasons why some of the bubble car inventory won't necessarily be replaced. At least in the U.S.
yet another reason just to stop paying on the mortgage and ignore any and all correspondence until the sheriff shows up. I think the likes of Kenny and Jamie know that moral hazard is a two-way street.
Not to mention the impact on fuel prices of a global commitment to 2 degree maximum warming and implied decarbonization of the economy. Gas-powered transportation costs will have to remain fairly high in the future to make that scenario stick.
Definitely get a lawyer if you are considering a short sale or a deed in lieu. You are wasting your time and money if you agree to a short sale, and then the bank pursues the deficiency and reports to the credit agency and sends a 1099 and does all the other things you were trying to avoid by a short sale. You can easily end up worse off than if you had done nothing and just let the lender foreclose.
OT I at my sisters watching a bunch of TV now, I didnt watch much in the past. All I see are extended car warranties commercials. Is this new and a result of people keeping their existing car longer or have these always been around?
Pretty soon you'll be able to get one of those pretty little plastic "rebate" type cards when you sell your home short. Except instead of a rebate a retailer gives to you for buying something, it'll be a rebate that you as the seller owe to the bank! If they do it right, it can incorporate its own little debt clock, with the interest charges accruing minute-by-minute ("just like the national debt") as a reminder that you really do want to pay the bank what you owe them.
Pigged: "We were at the HHS and the young lady had no help but announced if she was pregnant then should could get housing, food, utilities, medicade and a check"
Speaking of, I saw a disgusting glimpse last night - "16 and pregnant" on MTV while flipping thru the channels. It was about a rather stupid, largesse girl who's pregnant....and her unwed mother who's also pregnant. Living in their grandmother's house. Pretty sure they all collect massive amount of welfare from the government. MTV....turning girls into sluts, then to baby cannons.
I am so glad I don't contribute taxes to the US government anymore.
nades....for the most part they have always been around mostly in snail-mail form however I too have noticed the proliferation on TV recently. I think it's just because it's gotten much cheaper to do a TV ad than in year's past.
That's nonsense. They're taxing high incomes. Rich people don't need income, and what they do find to be useful in that category, they get from untaxed bonds.
The Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. is gearing up to handle a large number of bank failures expected as a result of bad mortgages, both in residential and commercial real estate, an economist said Tuesday.
“They know they’re going to take down a large number of banks and they can’t do it until they’re staffed up,” said Mark Dotzour, chief economist and director of research for the Real Estate Center at Texas A&M University.
Dotzour expects federal regulators to establish an agency, similar to the Resolution Trust Corp. that disposed of assets belonging to insolvent S&Ls in the late 1980s and early 1990s.
@POIC, that's not Dems taxing the rich, that's Dems taxing high-income people. Conflating "wealth" (being "rich") with "income" is yet another one of the fallacious Orwellian language abuses that I was ranting about last night.
But, I suppose this new tax thing will be good for protecting what's left of the muni bond markets after California finishes imploding, eh?
Byz: I sure hope you're feeling better now that you downed that half a bottle of whatever it is you have handy. Still, I admire your ability to let 'er rip.
As for how many banks swoon this week, I am leaning toward a double digit doozy of a BFF. I am not predicting it, I'm leaning toward it. Of course, I could be wrong.
Re: corporate welfare. I particularly love the retraining money that fast-food companies get for people who generally last perhaps a month or two at a job?
Gee, a penalty for trying to help out the banksters.
Just walk away becomes a preferable structure for getting out from under your house.
A really suboptimal strategy from banksters once again surfaces.
Does anybody think this is going to get better without the Velvet Fist of Government breaking down the banks natural desire to screw America out of every last dime?
You know, I am starting to like the idea of nationalization.
What irks me most is that the dems aren't taxing the rich, they're taxing the productive.
Although, then again, this might be a good way to extract clawbacks from Wall Street. Not so many other areas where folks'll be earning over $350K/year, are there? Especially folks in single-income housholds that are becoming more common... Sigh.
Is this the start of the death of Non-recourse mortgages/debt?
Also - if a short-seller gets his or her outstanding balance forgiven by the lender, does that seller end up getting taxed on that balance as debt-forgiveness income?
"Also - if a short-seller gets his or her outstanding balance forgiven by the lender, does that seller end up getting taxed on that balance as debt-forgiveness income?"
I'm pretty sure that you are no longer taxed on debt foregiveness on short-sales.
Back to CR's post: "Lenders appear to be inserting language into short sale contracts that allow them to sue for any "deficiency," or the amount lost by a bank by selling a home for less than the mortgage"...
And of course, since the homeowners by and large aren't so good at taking time to read the fine print: how many folks are just going to get screwed by this? It's not like your average short seller is going to be in the best of shape in terms of stress and emotional health... or that they can afford legal assistance...
"Conflating "wealth" (being "rich") with "income" is yet another one of the fallacious Orwellian language abuses that I was ranting about last night."
Agreed.
Speaking of Orwell, I was re-reading 1984 recently. Highly recommended, the words ring truer today than ever. Here is a good snippet, good stuff:
"From the moment when the machine first made its appearance it was clear to all thinking people that the need for human drudgery, and therefore to a great extent for human inequality, had disappeared. If the machine were used deliberately for that end, hunger, overwork, dirt, illiteracy, and disease could be eliminated within a few generations But it was also clear that an all-around increase in wealth threatened the destruction... of a hierarchical society. In a world in which everyone worked short hours, had enough to eat, lived in a house with a bathroom and a refrigerator, and possessed a motorcar or even an airplane, the most obvious and perhaps the most important form of inequality would already have disappeared. If it once became general, wealth would confer no distinction. Such a society could not long remain stable. For if leisure and security were enjoyed by all alike, the great mass of human beings who are normally stupefied by poverty would become literate and would learn to think for themselves; and when once they had done this, they would sooner or later realize that the privileged minority had no function, and they would sweep it away. In the long run, a hierarchical society was only possible on a basis of poverty and ignorance... It is deliberate policy to keep even the favoured groups somewhere near the brink of hardship because a general state of scarcity increases the importance of small privileges and thus magnifies the distinction between one group and another... The social atmosphere is that of a besieged city, where the possession of a lump of horseflesh makes the difference between wealth and poverty. "
That's nonsense. They're taxing high incomes. Rich people don't need income, and what they do find to be useful in that category, they get from untaxed bonds.
Exactly right.
Rich have always gone underground wrt to 'money'... they own land, whole or controlling shares in companies, banks, metal, art, etc... turning these assets into 'cash' only so long as to complete a specific transaction then back into some sort of non-cash and almost transparent asset and effectively non-taxable.
"over this year and next, the time will be closer to 3 IMO. I know of two in Escondido that stopped paying in Jan. of '06...still no eviction notice."
You are probably right. I am looking at loans that are finally going through foreclosure today, and many are near two years. Any going into default today are probably looking at 3 years...
Yes I am for welfare and not for just pumping money into supporting bad behavior. I have had enough section 8 renters to see the system up front. I believe if you need help then you have to repay in some manner. Stops the free loaders real fast. It can be worked out in many ways and I bet it is an incentive to get off of it. Community service, day care for others, peer counseling, even cash pay back if it is easier. Of course if one is disabled that is completely different. Lots of things can be worked out.
Corporate welfare has it's place as long as it is not abused. That seems to be the key now days Rip it off mentality.
JP (homepage, profile) wrote on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 2:22 pm
Wasn't today Dawg meltdown day?
Next Wed.
On the subject of taxing the rich for health care; income taxes are designed to prevent people from becoming rich. The rich control assets, they try to avoid regular income.
"One provision in the bill extends for one year a seven-year depreciation timetable that NASCAR and other motorsport racing facilities have had for some years. It is the same tax break that amusement parks enjoy.
Without the extension, the tracks would have to depreciate the cost of their improvements over 15 years, raising their taxes by $100 million."
Other country's get tourism dollar's to build race tracks (not for nascar) and stage F1 races in the middle of no where and in front of virtually no one but that way of doing business would never fly here...but they found a way to make it fly with the depreciation schedule.
I HATE NASCAR it's nothing more than wrestling on four wheels.
Ben, sorry just take it personally. Honestly don't know where I stand on any of it. I grew up with a man's got a do what a man's got to do John Wayne upbringing. You make your own way. And that is still true. But what my wife has gone through, it makes me sick, and has changed my mind on a few things. I have actually had fantasies about going out to California and taking care of some unfinished business in the Mojave desert... sometimes you can't leave and get away. She had one 'father' with a sword fetish that used to chase them around the house. Another with a shotgun. Pretty sure the youngest two were sexually molested. Pot and lots of other drug abuse, oh and grandpa used to like to watch porn with the kiddies and then tuck them in at night. Taken me ten years to get my wife to talk about some of this stuff. Lost her faith in the justice system when the judge said she was a hostile witness against both sides and her say couldn't be used.
"Corporate welfare has it's place as long as it is not abused. That seems to be the key now days Rip it off mentality. "
But it has been abused for decades. Unfortunately there is no truthful discussion on main-stream TV outlets as they are controlled by big business.
I absolutely agree that we need a proper, open discussion on the appropriate role of welfare in American society. All welfare, personal and corporate. But unfortunately that won't happen. And the sad thing is that most business people don't even see what they are getting is a form of welfare.
But this part: For if leisure and security were enjoyed by all alike, the great mass of human beings who are normally stupefied by poverty would become literate and would learn to think for themselves...
...strikes me as not quite right. During the great credit booms, the great mass of human beings who are normally stupefied by poverty became equally if not more stupefied by the entertainment options available when they became affluent. The evidence at hand suggests that under any conditions, the masses by and large aren't that interested in literacy, and feel that thinking is a painful chore.
@Dawg: And at a time when the asset values of the truly rich are declining at frightening speed, it becomes all the more important to prevent entry into the club by taxing incomes???
Is this the start of the death of Non-recourse mortgages/debt?
More generally, I think we might be starting to see the transition of the government from "nice guy helping-hand mode" to "self-preservation at any cost mode".
That's always the potential tragedy of being "too nice" -- you get your self into a situation where you then have to be "too mean" simply to stay alive.
One more reason not to do a short sale or just amil in the keys. Assuming you are underwater and in fin'l difficulty the best strategy right now seems to be just to stop paying on your mortgage and live rent free until the sherriff shows up at the door. Could be in 3 months, or a year or 3 years, but regardless you live rent free in the meantime. Pu the cash you save someplace safe and not easilly traced. With current short term rates you dont lose that much putting it in a safe deposit box at the bank rather than depositing it at the bank.
Welfare could be run as a nongovernmental organization. Think United Way, with all workers "taxed" (forced to chip in 1 or 2% of pay), but given choices as to where to allocate those taxes. Then let there be a marketplace of charity services to compete for those $$, and get Congress out of it.
Congress has only so many mental watt-hours/day, and the current ratio of watt-hours to dollars spent is frighteningly low. There's no way so few can manage so much spending with any degree of success.
JPM is the other one, that extra day's float is what allowed both of them to expand(and have those aquisitions be accretive so quickly). Tech was done by IBM
"Then let there be a marketplace of charity services to compete for those $$, and get Congress out of it."
Shhhh, don't let GS get any ideas. Image trying to get your welfare dollars and finding they've been securitized and sold off to a pension fund that just went under.
"That's nonsense. They're taxing high incomes. Rich people don't need income, and what they do find to be useful in that category, they get from untaxed bonds."
Exactly right.
Rich have always gone underground wrt to 'money'... they own land, whole or controlling shares in companies, banks, metal, art, etc... turning these assets into 'cash' only so long as to complete a specific transaction then back into some sort of non-cash and almost transparent asset and effectively non-taxable.
They aren't dummies.
One of the interesting observations Mancur Olson makes in his books is that nations which implement progressive taxation also tend to implement loopholes that allow the rich and influential to escape that taxation.
In other words, to a certain extent progressive taxation is kind of a an illusion and periods of real progressive taxation are quickly undone by special interest lobbying.
with foreclosures some states have what is called "deficiency judgment" ga does so either foreclosure or short sell the bank just might get its money (the original loan).
If you understand this, then why can't you understand that the population has only so many production hours per day, ergo it only has so many consumption hours per day.
Work is a finite resource. Current economics assumes that there's an infinite mass of unrealized work floating around the NeverSphere, simply waiting to be plucked forth into Reality.
banks need to go after the short sellers if there net assets (US+abroad) can meet the short fall. Also, if the person is employed , his salary ought to be garnished. Only in scenarios where the individual's situation is truely dire, one can make an argument to let go of the short fall.
I grew up thinking the John Wayne deal also. It works for me. Today is excuse and not my responsibility. When you bust you tail and everyone says you are crazy and make then they still say you crazy and it can't be done, I love it. Life was fast for me and the lessons hit hard and fast learn or die. Many of us have lost the point of what our government is supposed to do. All this bail out preceeded by no government oversight is beyond comprehension. The reality of family is you pick your wife and the rest becomes baggage, Some current and past. Money is on the government side even in justice. Just do the best we can do.
Which is why you are baffled by the current situation. It's just not an issue of "laziness" and "pulling up your boot straps". There's eight quarts of water on the island. You grabbed seven of them and now you tell people to "make their own", then wonder why you're taxed.
Work is a finite resource.
The system is a holistic web now and your answers are self-serving to the detriment of everyone else.
Your answers were good when work was simple and goods were simple.
That's not the world now.
"this thread contains some of the most vacuous, banal comments in the history of the intertubes "
In America the majority raises formidable barriers around the liberty of opinion; within these barriers an author may write what he pleases, but woe to him if he goes beyond them. -de Tocqueville
I'm going out on a limb and predicting no FDIC bank failures today.
The hypothetical reason is the process. The FDIC bank failure process puts the "failing" banks out to bid about 10 days before the actual fail date. They wouldn't have been putting banks out to bid over the July 4th holiday weekend, because the bidders would be less likely to nibble on the proferred bait.
If this is accurate, bank failures should be less common on weeks following the major holiday weekends. (Now, for minor holiday weekends, there might be more failures because the institutions being solicited for bids might actually like taking the extra non-work day to assess the upcoming victim...)
There's also the mindset today that I got where I am on merit, so I don't owe nothing to nobody. Leads a lot of people passing through "meritocratic" institutions to believe they're entitled to make a buck by screwing someone else. Maybe not as numerous, but a much more dangerous belief when widely shared by the ruling class, and a much better explanation of how we arrived at our current mess.
Thanks, Ben...
The reality of family is you pick your wife and the rest becomes baggage, Some current and past.
My dad's words to a T. Past is shit, everyone has a history, what you do here and now that matters. Wife believes it as well. My problem is I am not sure hell is good enough for some people.
.
My serious questions here get good, reasonable responses. Nobody else seems to have a problem with me. If I bother you that much, I implore you to press the "Ignore User" link next to this post before that coronary sets in.
" Rob Dawg (homepage, profile) wrote on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 5:26 pm
On the subject of taxing the rich for health care; income taxes are designed to prevent people from becoming rich. The rich control assets, they try to avoid regular income."
As such, rather than leveling the playing field, the progressive income tax helps maintain the status quo rather than allow for upward mobility. That probably explains the difference between the Kennedys and the Romneys, etc.
Totally OT but I'm trying to figure out what 10 year rate will have Jaas showing up again. When it breaks 3%, 2.5%? Any takers.
If there was leverage involved, perhaps never.
I can tell you from personal experience that psychologically the worst thing that can happen to you in a market is to be "right" about something but end up on the losing end because your position was too big to stay in it.
It's the kind of thing that makes you never want to talk about this stuff again.
@Broward: "If you understand this, then why can't you understand that the population has only so many production hours per day, ergo it only has so many consumption hours per day.
Work is a finite resource. Current economics assumes that there's an infinite mass of unrealized work floating around the NeverSphere, simply waiting to be plucked forth into Reality."
Excellent point. (I assume you meant "one" and not "you" in "why can't you understand". I believe I do understand.
I used to hear technogeek speak of the imminent "cognitive surplus". Too many brains with too much free time, ready to solve the world's problems through human cloud computing via the blogosphere!! Instead we have CR BFF "debates" about nothing of substance. Will the electrons driven to new heights of eloquence on this forum change the world? Probably not.
But back to the original point: what economists call an "economic decline" usually involves people finding extra time on their hands, which they no longer get/wish to spend in either production or consumption, but instead in leisure. Provided those people can satisfy basic needs and wants (an allocation issue, not a total-production issue), that might actually be a better society to have!
As you say, "Economic Growth" and "Productivity Growth" (of the exponential type) generally involve more people moving faster and faster to produce and consume as much as possible in the minimum time period. Beyond a certain point that isn't even healthy at the individual level.
We have a forty-hour workweek because it was the rough-cut point where we could jigger production and consumption into equilibrium after the Great Depression forced recognition of imbalance.
We have six decades of increasing government payrolls as the jigger that's maintained consumption in the face of rising productivity.
It's not that hard to figure this out, especially if you're frigging supergenius self-made man.
Broward you're waxing eloquent at the moment so something must be in good rhythm, but work and goods were never quite so. The Eskimo did manage to hunt whales and fowl without bronze, taking what they needed. Their technology was nowhere approaching "simple". Elegant, yes.
"Any going into default today are probably looking at 3 years... "
Man, three years rent free. The system is broken.
And LBD bellyaching about food stamps, when a big chuck of California is going to get 3 years of rent free living, the banks that made those bad loans are getting 0% interest and a bailout or backstop for a state of fiscally retarded whiners.
Language sits between thinking and action. Signing a harmful short sale document without understanding the language in it turns out to be a harmful action.
"Any going into default today are probably looking at 3 years... "
I think that very much depends on who is holding the mortgage. Some regional banks, if they are holding original mortgages, may not be as swamped as the big boys and may act faster on foreclosures.
Wisdom Speaker (homepage, profile) wrote on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 2:31 pm
@Dawg: And at a time when the asset values of the truly rich are declining at frightening speed, it becomes all the more important to prevent entry into the club by taxing incomes???
Cinco-X (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 2:47 pm
"On the subject of taxing the rich for health care; income taxes are designed to prevent people from becoming rich. The rich control assets, they try to avoid regular income." - RD
As such, rather than leveling the playing field, the progressive income tax helps maintain the status quo rather than allow for upward mobility. That probably explains the difference between the Kennedys and the Romneys, etc.
Yup. And let's not skirt the issue. Declining assets are not a great thing but the point is to prevent a relative leveling of things. The rich actively support safety nets to prevent the creation of a dissatisfaction class to forestall economic confiscation schemes and they support a progressive income tax to prevent the rise of an acquisition class that would compete with them for the cream. It's a delicate balance.
"Uhoh someone on this board is gonna blow an aneurism (:
House Dems to tax rich to pay for health care Yahoo! 404 - Page Not Found
A media person told me that the original story was from The Associated Press. AP, she said, is very critical of anything Democratic: Democratic sponsored programs, Democratic politicians, etc.
Republicans cut taxes substantially for the rich when times were good, it makes sense to me to raise their taxes when the rest of America is suffering; especially after the American taxpayer bailed out the banksters and other high income, bonus receiving people.
RE: witch test, In Tidewater area of VA, there is Witch Duck Road. It seems it was the place where the pilgrims would tie up a suspected witch, extend the person over the water and drop them into the water while secured to a pole. They'd leave the suspect underwater a sufficient time and if they lived, they were acquitted.
I have to admit, I love the consternation and the perplexity of the Free Market / True Believers. It was all fine and good to bow and genuflect to The Market God when it reward them, but now that The God has issued an edict to "share the work and share the wealth", the believers are stupified.
TB: Doctor, doctor, it hurts whenever I work hard and get so little!!!!
TB: What should I do?
Oh, woe, the woe.
Why have you forsaken us, Oh Free Market God?
How have we angered you?
It must be that Evil Government God, it can't possible be YOU who have betrayed us, FMG!
Errh, sorry, guys.
Yup, it's the StaPuft Marshmellow Man.
A bit of backtesting on the "no BFF on post-holiday weeks" tends to support the idea, but not always:
0 failures following Memorial Day, May 25.
2 failures following Easter Sunday, April 12
1 failure 2/20/2009 following President's Day, Feb 16
1 failure 1/23/2009 following Martin Luther King Day, Jan 19
0 failures following New Year's Day weekend
0 failures following Christmas weekend, Dec 25 2008
1 failure 12/5/2008 following Thanksgiving weekend, Nov 27 2008
0 failures following Columbus Day weekend, Oct 13 2008
1 failure 9/5/2008 following Labor Day weekend, Sep 1 2008
1 failure 7/11/2008 following Independence Day weekend, July 4 2008
Total of 74 failures in the past 12 months. Average of about 1.5 failures/week for all weeks. Average of 0.7 failures on post-holiday Fridays. Doesn't look statistically significant, though.
No! We have have too many people in jail already. i think we should release some of the non-violent ones."
Yeah the math on debtors prisons is pretty bad. i.e. who pays the 80K/year to keep the debtors fed and guarded? Sounds like yet another subsidy for bankers too lazy, stupid or greedy to do their own due diligence. NOD, eviction and foreclosure is the right way to go, but of course the banks don't like that too much either, as it depreciates their assets and drives more unwinding.
" volker the viking (profile) wrote on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 6:07 pm
RE: witch test, In Tidewater area of VA, there is Witch Duck Road. It seems it was the place where the pilgrims would tie up a suspected witch, extend the person over the water and drop them into the water while secured to a pole. They'd leave the suspect underwater a sufficient time and if they lived, they were acquitted.
Those Pilgrims, what a fun and creative bunch!"
Fascinating; I thought the Pilgrims were unique to Massachussets.
That said, I had kinfolk killed in Maryland for being a witch. He was a small man, but incredibly strong. So strong in fact that the locals became convinced that he could have only gotten his strength from the devil. I think he was drowned as well.
Traderwalt -- we had tax cuts for the rich even when the times were not good. To stimulate demand. In fact, for one of our major parties, the solution to every economic problem is tax cuts for the rich!
Of course, I have the enormous advantage of not toting an ideology around to poison my reasoning ability. I read FreeRepublic and DemocraticUnderground, I ignore Bush and Obama and all I did for thirty years was troubleshoot and make things work.
I keep waiting for the email that tells me to show up for my new position to work on Plan D or E.
At least right now we are below the radar here- for the most part.
I don't expect that position to be maintained.
But O has a big problem, both parties are still fighting from the old viewpoints, and that transition will be brutal to the new reality.
RR let the cat out of the bag, and now we are going to have to go radical to make real impacts on the economy, with new ideas floating over the old structure.
GS is fighting a rear guard action for the old guard.
There will be new era, whether we like it or not.
Get ready, buckle up and hang on.
Don't cling too much to the old ways, they are changing.
"
Rob Dawg (homepage, profile) wrote on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 6:03 pm
.....
"On the subject of taxing the rich for health care; income taxes are designed to prevent people from becoming rich. The rich control assets, they try to avoid regular income." - RD
.....
Yup. And let's not skirt the issue. Declining assets are not a great thing but the point is to prevent a relative leveling of things. The rich actively support safety nets to prevent the creation of a dissatisfaction class to forestall economic confiscation schemes and they support a progressive income tax to prevent the rise of an acquisition class that would compete with them for the cream. It's a delicate balance."
Wow! Are you sure you're from MA? You don't sound like the locals here to me BTW, I totally agree. It's also funny how the same wealthy folks think it's their right to hire illegal aliens as servants, etc. At least they could pay the taxes for the hired help......
"So what would President Barack Obama do if given the choice between allowing a California default and taking on more debt on behalf of taxpayers?
Do the math. It only involves one figure -- 55. That’s the number of Electoral College votes held by California, the most of any state. "
@Rob Dawg: "The rich actively support safety nets to prevent the creation of a dissatisfaction class to forestall economic confiscation schemes and they support a progressive income tax to prevent the rise of an acquisition class that would compete with them for the cream. It's a delicate balance."
But actually it's not a delicate balance, it's a very simple. The powerful just use the proceeds from the progressive taxation of the acquisition-seekers to fund the safety nets. So when the safety net needs to be stronger, you know where to go!
BTW, my "error" in starting down the path of the self-selected "acquisition class" was not recognizing that after a certain point, the educational meritocracy runs out, and sooner than I would have expected to boot.
To be fair, my experience isn't in the financial sector, but the principle applies where I work as well. One might substitute "powerful" for "rich" and get the same meaning.
I chose not to work the social networks available to me, especially after I realized what the upper echelons had to do to stay in power -- not my cup of tea. I'm sort of "Galting in place" -- I've decided to work for personal satisfaction, since the "rewards" around here don't justify the moral and emotional expenses exacted from the willing servants of the system. I expect the old regime to fail of its own weight at some point.
It was nice to have this recognition in time to wring some alpha from the financial markets as payback for lost home equity, though.
broward - the pawn shop is extremely busy we are still buying lots of gold and silver . I'm currently seeing on average a rolex every day coming in now . As far as the sales side is alittle bit ahead of last year as we are seeing more shoppers looking for deals . The custom jewelry side is steady (we do cad , cam , casting in house ) . Rolexes 10 years and older there is no market for outside a few rare watches ( Daytona ect ) . You used to be able to sell a wore out stainless one for $1000 to $1500 bucks. The stores that offer no in house jewelry servicesare getting killed . As far as the rest of the pawn shops I'll know more next week after going to the National Pawn convention .
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
(From CBSnews)
The United States and other nations will inevitably confront world crises where they have a "moral imperative" to intervene, President Obama said today -- but only in "exceptional" circumstances.
"There has to be a strong international outrage at what's taking place," Mr. Obama said in a press conference in L'Aquila, Italy, where the G8 summit has wrapped up. He called striking a balance between meeting that moral obligation and respecting national sovereignty "one of the most difficult questions in international affairs."
"I don't think there is a clean formula," he said. "In general, it is important for the sovereignty of nations to be respected."
"Don't cling too much to the old ways, they are changing.
Someday this war's gonna end..."
The Republicans lost all perspective when the Communism bogeyman fell apart as a compelling villain/adversary. Terrorism, run by a bunch of wackos in caves, funded by big oil theocracies is a prickly, poor substitute.
Rob Dawg, you're popular with me whenever you speak the truth, e.g., at 2:26 p.m. today:
"On the subject of taxing the rich for health care; income taxes are designed to prevent people from becoming rich. The rich control assets, they try to avoid regular income. "
Where we have frequent disagreement is political 'truth.'
July 10 (Bloomberg) -- The Obama administration is seeking to give the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission power to prohibit pay practices at brokerages and investment advisers and broader authority to bar individuals from work in the industry. The Treasury Department today sent Congress legislation that would let the SEC ban “sales practices, conflicts of interest and compensation schemes” deemed harmful to investors. The measure lets the agency remove individuals who violate rules from all aspects of the industry, rather than a specific segment such as selling securities or managing money.
Ghostfacedinvestah - I'm positively shocked to find you quoting the socialist parts of Orwell. I recommend Burmese Days as well.
Homage to Catalunya is an awesome book.
IIRC that's the one where he says he saw "true" socialism work for about 5 minutes in Barcelona and was never again able to get that vision of an ideal society out of his head.
July 10 (Bloomberg) -- Goldman Sachs Group Inc. is poised to report the largest profit since it set earnings records in 2007, marking the return of a business model that was the envy of Wall Street before the financial crisis devastated competitors and spurred a government bailout.
Much dismantling of the American reality construct at CR today.
Having an anthropologist on staff here at the commentariat would be valuable for perspective. Looking at the 4.6 billion years the planet has careened around the sun and the paltry 200,000 years that some form of humanity has wandered the plains you realize the insignificance of our existence. The earth is the constant followed closely by DNA. DNA doesn't care what shape it wears only that it continues. The damage we've done to our environment and the continued attitude of being above all other forms of DNA expression will lead to our form of DNA reaching a dead end. Species end constantly, we can as well. The Earth will continue with some form of life.
Way OT but it is how I check my outlook when the actions of the few threaten the many. We all are on the same lifeboat and the economy is one of the smaller leaks I worry about most days.
//The damage we've done to our environment and the continued attitude of being above all other forms of DNA expression will lead to our form of DNA reaching a dead end.//
@Lucifer: Glad to see new rules, but... so what if the SEC bans something. Without an enforcement arm, who cares?
If a rulebook falls down on Wall Street, but no authorities are there to enforce it, does it make a sound?
I don't want to see rules. I don't want to see paper tigers. I want to see action. I want perp walks. I want to see blue-collar minor offenders released to make room for white-collar multimillion-dollar scammers. Given that the median income works out to about a million dollars over a human lifetime, it isn't even that outrageous to suggest life sentences or even death penalties for criminal behavior which costs society $10 million or more. I mean, that's only a 1-to-10 payback ratio.
July 10 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. economy will expand faster than previously forecast in the second half of this year and in 2010 as a revival in consumer spending signals an end to the recession, a Bloomberg News survey showed. Growth will average 1.5 percent in the July-to-December period, compared with last month’s 1.2 percent projection, according to the median of 57 forecasts in the survey taken from July 2 to July 8. The jobless rate will exceed 10 percent early next year and average 9.8 percent for 2010.
..........“We are on the cusp of stabilization,” said Stephen Stanley, chief economist at RBS Securities Inc. in Stamford, Connecticut. “The right things are happening. They’re not happening fast enough to make everyone comfortable just yet, but we’re certainly headed in the right direction.”..........
@Credit Enema: The pawn shop news will be fascinating! I wonder whether the downslide in gold lately is the retail flipside of the "buying above spot" gold shortage last fall...
“We are on the cusp of stabilization,” said Stephen Stanley, chief economist at RBS Securities Inc. in Stamford, Connecticut. “The right things are happening. They’re not happening fast enough to make everyone comfortable just yet, but we’re certainly headed in the right direction.”
"I want to see blue-collar minor offenders released to make room for white-collar multimillion-dollar scammers. Given that the median income works out to about a million dollars over a human lifetime, it isn't even that outrageous to suggest life sentences or even death penalties for criminal behavior which costs society $10 million or more. I mean, that's only a 1-to-10 payback ratio."
It sure is a lot harder to put the wealthy into prison with the legal teams they are able to assemble, compared to the the kind of defense the blue collar folks get. For JD and DA guys looking to pad their conviction stats, it is a hard sell.
@Lucifer -- yeah, who watches the police? And who watches Congress?
If the rulebooks were simple enough, the system transparent and competitive, and the majority of the people believed in the value of the rules and the system, then perhaps the people would pretty well police themselves? (Okay, give or take the usual trouble with the 10 Commandments.) And it would be easier to tell when the police where doing their jobs too.
I suppose even that is a pipe dream and the reality is that humanity is always a mess. But it does seem like we've taken the overspecialization a bit too far. Too much trust in bankers to take care of our finances, in politicians to take care of our government, in police to take care of our criminals, perhaps?
BTW, where I said "it isn't even that outrageous to suggest life sentences or even death penalties for criminal behavior which costs society $10 million or more." I would add that if clawbacks were done on the ill-gotten gains, one might use a fraction of the proceeds to fund the incarcerations. If you want to fund the prison system, go where the deep pocket criminals are!
Lucifer (profile) wrote on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 5:33 pm
Catholicism.. Original Sin.
//The damage we've done to our environment and the continued attitude of being above all other forms of DNA expression will lead to our form of DNA reaching a dead end.//
Prescient of them. The selfishness of the genes eventually results in their own unsustainability and extinction.
"
Blackhalo (homepage, profile) wrote on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 6:43 pm
It sure is a lot harder to put the wealthy into prison with the legal teams they are able to assemble, compared to the the kind of defense the blue collar folks get. For JD and DA guys looking to pad their conviction stats, it is a hard sell."
The U.S. economy will expand faster than previously forecast in the second half of this year and in 2010 as a revival in consumer spending signals an end to the recession, a Bloomberg News survey showed.
The irony of course is that the consumer is the one thing that hasn't been recovering.
Heed the warnings of economists like Andy Xie who say inventory cycles may create the appearance of recovery where there really is none.
We deal 95 % in Jewelry anything else we load on eBay . I'll loan on anything I can find a value on . Currently in talks with carnival cruise line about opening a jewelry store in roatan Honduras on there cruise dock to help move the diamond inventory . Most pawn shops are poorly run the idea is to build your loan book just like a bank with default rates are 15% . The idea is loan as much as possible if you believe they are coming back ( they take the item ring off ect )
"The agreement with the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. and the state Department of Financial Institutions also "formalizes most of the changes management already has in place to ensure prudent financial management in this economy," said President and CEO Ellen Sas in a prepared statement.
The bank's parent company, Seattle Financial Group, signed a similar agreement with its regulator, the Office of Thrift Supervision."
What is wrong with this picture? FDIC, DFI, and OTS all regulating different parts of the same organization? Nuts.
I wast thinking the same thing. Seizing assets might put some real fear out there. But you'd also need to encourage prosecuters to be measured by $$$ seized and not just conviction rate.
Lucifer (profile) wrote on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 5:47 pm
Bingo! Too much trust and lack of accountability.
//But it does seem like we've taken the overspecialization a bit too far. //
Don't forget interdependence of an ever-more complex and interconnected system that no one of us can fully understand.
Ever done a large coding project that ended up monolithic, or inherited a badly-designed one? The butterfly flapping its wings causing a storm in Africa isn't just a metaphor
Lucifer (profile) wrote on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 5:49 pm
Yes, but nobody can predict the outcome.
//We can rest assured that it will go on until it doesn't.//
More on the non-BFF today: no PBGC actions this week, no NCUA actions on credit unions either. Could be a large nothingburger today.
Lucifer asks "Why should existence have a purpose?"
Why not? Existence is going to be there either way. But some ways are more interesting. So I'd say, existence had no purpose until consciousness was there to want to make it more interesting.
July 10 (Bloomberg) -- Rebecca Alvarez says she’s “barely hanging on.” Without a job for seven months, the 48-year-old computer- network administrator said she’s stopped dining out, cut back cable-television services and put off paying a photography class bill from her 14-year-old son’s school in Monrovia, California. She is among more than 4 million Americans who have been looking for work for more than 26 weeks, representing 29 percent of the unemployed, the most since records began in 1948.
..........As many as 650,000 workers may exhaust even their extended benefits within three months, said Maurice Emsellem, policy co- director for the National Employment Law Project, a nonprofit advocacy group headquartered in New York. That means Obama may need to aim directly at reducing joblessness, said Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody’s Economy.com in West Chester, Pennsylvania. Among options: enhanced job training, tax credits for businesses that take on new employees or a temporary cut in payroll taxes. The U.S. traditionally hasn’t had to deal with long-term joblessness. During the last 30 years, Americans who were thrown out of work took an average 15.8 weeks to find new positions. In June, the average duration of unemployment was 24.5 weeks, the longest since records began in 1948. The number of people collecting unemployment benefits reached a record 6.88 million in the week ended June 27......
"
HomeGnome (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 6:46 pm
Cinco,
Did you already get your goats?
How much did they cost you?"
Yup; I got 'em home now. A "grade" milk-able doe, i.e. a doe without papers should start around $200-250. Mine is registered and ran about $350. A wether, or castrated male runs between $50-100. Bucks are less than does, but really good bloodlines of either can run you into the thousands. You need a companion for a goat, so I got a wether. I'll keep him until my doe has kids, and we'll see after that.
You'll want to investigate goats before you buy, assuming that this is why you're asking, because you'll want to know about diseases like CL and CAE, and other issues pertinent to keeping them. I got dwarfs due to the limited amount of grazing I can provide for them.
Good luck-
It makes sense to be in such a fungible thing as good and jewels, it's the other crap like guitars and whatnot that make me scratch my head. Is it a sympathy thing or do they even bother with eBay for price discovery?
"
ac (profile) wrote on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 6:47 pm
The irony of course is that the consumer is the one thing that hasn't been recovering."
Can't they just program that into the Matrix?
BTW, the trouble with watches in pawn shops is that no one needs watches anymore. You can get the time from your cell phone -- without looking like you're trying to tell someone you've lost interest in what he's saying. And there are plenty of other high-value bling items.
Thanks. Always been in love with them, amazing engineering and history. But I gather Patek makes it very hard to buy/sell them versus Rolex etc.. Hard to transfer the name on the title you get.
I work for a mid-size Bay Area architectural firm that has been hit particularly hard by the downturn. Since January, we’ve dropped close to 60% of our employees. Most all of them very, very good employees and generally on the ball. All were told we would be bringing them back when work resumed. Of course, it’s not going to happen. At the moment, our office is 80% empty desks. Last week we found out we won a significant commission (via stimulas to restore a well known national landmark (everyone would know it). It’s enough to keep most of the remainder of the staff employed (I think). Funny thing is that the people who run this landmark will be visiting our office shortly and we have asked former employees to come into the office and sit at their old desks to make it seem we have staff.
The point I wanted to toss in before leaving (which came to me as I stood up from the keyboard) is this:
If we start from the premise that Rob Dawg is right (and methinks he should be "Wisdom Speaker") that "The rich actively support safety nets to prevent the creation of a dissatisfaction class to forestall economic confiscation schemes and they support a progressive income tax to prevent the rise of an acquisition class that would compete with them for the cream. It's a delicate balance."
So what happens when the progressive income tax is insufficient to support the safety net? Is there a Plan C to prevent the economic confiscation schemes? Do the wealthy start tossing out a few of their own to appease the wolves chasing the wagon? Do we get the clawbacks and RICO prosecutions after all?
"Do we get the clawbacks and RICO prosecutions after all? "
Maybe what you get is what happens in China. Someone high up who happened to be protected by someone even higher up (who lost a political battle) gets thrown to the wolves and gets a bullet to the head or a very long prison term.
metabear - I use to work for R&S.... Same story but they are holding on to a 'rebound' or 'return to 2007-8' harder than you guys seem to be.... its fugly and no one wants to admit it... They did just win a 750k parking lot tho... (ouch)
"The U.S. traditionally hasn’t had to deal with long-term joblessness. During the last 30 years, Americans who were thrown out of work took an average 15.8 weeks to find new positions. In June, the average duration of unemployment was 24.5 weeks, the longest since records began in 1948."
Funny thing is this is showing up in mortgage delinquency data as well. The % of loans in the 30-59 day bucket is actually declining, as we run out of borrowers to go delinquent. But 60+ dqs just keep climbing, aided of course by the moratoriums.
Delinquency is becoming a roach motel - you can enter but not leave. Of course the incentives to enter and stay in default to get access to programs doesn't help either.
"Funny thing is that the people who run this landmark will be visiting our office shortly and we have asked former employees to come into the office and sit at their old desks to make it seem we have staff."
Talk about feeding on the hope of the disadvantaged. They should all be paid for the charade.
My wife runs a knitting group, takes part in two others, and a new knitter just showed up who attends all three. Just laid off by an architectural firm. She has lots of time to knit now.
"
Wisdom Speaker (homepage, profile) wrote on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 6:59 pm
The point I wanted to toss in before leaving (which came to me as I stood up from the keyboard) is this:
If we start from the premise that Rob Dawg is right .......
So what happens when the progressive income tax is insufficient to support the safety net? Is there a Plan C to prevent the economic confiscation schemes? Do the wealthy start tossing out a few of their own to appease the wolves chasing the wagon? Do we get the clawbacks and RICO prosecutions after all?"
Not before what's left of our 201k is appropriated for the purpose, further promoting the agenda of the wealthy.....
@metabear: lots of companies are hiring odd-job part-time workers to sit at desks, look busy, and appear like going concerns at moments of inspection. It's the next growth industry!
@Lucifer "Precisely, but people should understand that it is their mind, and not some external agency, that gives their existence meaning." -- trouble is, most people would rather be brainwashed than think, so their search for meaning is abdicated and their minds get harnessed by whatever social matrix sweeps them up. And I use matrix in many senses!
Also, even the pre-Reagan tax code might not be sufficient. The bottom of the pyramid is a lot bigger than the middle, and the Eiffel-shaped long top isn't chipping in (yet).
Posted: July 09, 2009, 2:30 PM by Araminta Wordsworth
“We don’t have the money to pay our bills because the Legislature has decided that it’s more important to protect their special interests rather than protect the taxpayers,” Arnold Schwarzenegger, the state’s governor, said last week. Cancer patients, court-appointed lawyers and alcoholics in treatment programs have joined taxpayers owed rebates as the hapless recipients of these notes. About US$100-million worth have been issued since the state cranked up the presses last week. Sacramento says it will print up to US$3-billion “worth” and continue issuing them until a budget deal is struck.
"I work for a mid-size Bay Area architectural firm that has been hit particularly hard by the downturn. Since January, we’ve dropped close to 60% of our employees."
This doesn't jibe with that Architectural billings index that gets posted here. It shows billings are up from the lows. Are you not seeing that? Who do you think is getting the business, bigger firms?
I do wonder who is hiring those architects, I don't see what planning is going on.
and in other news, your IOUs are good at Citi for another week.
Seriously tinfoil but I see our 401k and other such "retirement" money getting serious new restrictions on use. It could even get to the point where it all gets rolled into a collective government administrated retirement fund. And I'm not alone in sensing this. Contributions are down way more than just the economy would suggest.
Speaking of SF, Bay Area. I dropped into the Rincon Center food-hall for lunch yesterday. Hadn't been in there for a few months. One whole length of restaurants is shuttered down. Looks like a good 1/3 of all the restaurants in there have shut down. Right in the middle of the financial district.
"Having an anthropologist on staff here at the commentariat would be valuable for perspective. Looking at the 4.6 billion years the planet has careened around the sun and the paltry 200,000 years that some form of humanity has wandered the plains you realize the insignificance of our existence. The earth is the constant followed closely by DNA. DNA doesn't care what shape it wears only that it continues. The damage we've done to our environment and the continued attitude of being above all other forms of DNA expression will lead to our form of DNA reaching a dead end. Species end constantly, we can as well. The Earth will continue with some form of life."
Yep.
"We all are on the same lifeboat and the economy is one of the smaller leaks I worry about most days."
Me too, most days, but then so far we're not hurting, which kind of proves the point. If we were hurting more we'd be looking around at the other people in the lifeboat.
West Sac_grrrl: The internet is the first clumsy groping of humanity attempting to become connected. It has evolved from where it was to where it is. The process continues. Someday, and that day cannot be known, will happen suddenly and without warning, the transition will become a transmogrification. From that place and point, the capacity and content of what we call the internet will blast toward the event horizon, or rather the event horizon will loom ever more rapidly close.
So there I was, about to go get some real life stuff done, and I said to myself "Wow, CR is really going to regret promising no more posts until there's a bank failulre", so I decided to hit refresh on the FDIC, and there it was.
Unfortunately now I have to digest a large helping of crow regarding post-holiday Fridays. Another backtested strategy invalidated... Good thing no money on the line...
"Speaking of SF, Bay Area. I dropped into the Rincon Center food-hall for lunch yesterday. Hadn't been in there for a few months. One whole length of restaurants is shuttered down."
Is that Chinese place still there? Forget the name...It was good.
Old money knows that a safety net is what keeps them from hanging at the end of a rope, while nuveau riche are uber libertarian and spendthrift so they're screwed anyways. Old money knows not to try and chase yield, to leave money on the table and be cheap as all getout.
I grew up a middle class son of depression babies and fell into money, my credit rating is awful because if I can't pay cash for it I don't want it.
pavel.chichikov (homepage, profile) wrote on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 6:09 pm
"We all are on the same lifeboat and the economy is one of the smaller leaks I worry about most days."
Me too, most days, but then so far we're not hurting, which kind of proves the point. If we were hurting more we'd be looking around at the other people in the lifeboat.
With growling stomachs. It's surprising just how far the survival instincts go...
"Is that Chinese place still there? Forget the name...It was good."
Yeah they're still there. Still appear to be doing decent take-away business. If you're in that area try the little Italian place outside across the street at the corner near the Starbucks. Decent food at a very good price for that area. $10 or so for a full meal.
Cancer patients, court-appointed lawyers and alcoholics in treatment programs have joined taxpayers owed rebates as the hapless recipients of these notes [California IOUs].
I like the one about court-appointed lawyers, as in "if you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be appointed for you."
I thought the 13th Amendment applied to lawyers as well as to other slaves, but I guess not. They can be made to work for free. Wonder how long that one will last?
It starts with you taking action. I'm not opposed to selective violence against people who use political capture for personal gain. How well protected are the big wheels at these places?
//This doesn't jibe with that Architectural billings index that gets posted here. It shows billings are up from the lows. Are you not seeing that? Who do you think is getting the business, bigger firms? //
well for one, the billing index is national. sf is getting hit hard at the moment. that said, we weren't particularly well placed when the downturn hit and the fact we have 3 million bucks owed us by old clients who have stopped paying.
"Wisdom Speaker (homepage, profile) wrote on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 7:09 pm
Unfortunately now I have to digest a large helping of crow regarding post-holiday Fridays...."
@"Contributions are down way more than just the economy would suggest."
Of course, that might be correlated with the year-over-year returns on the funds available in the 401(k)s:
"Damn, every single fund in here is down this year, except for the Money Market that's paying no interest now!"
The other one might be:
"Damn, I need to pay off all my credit cards now because no one is letting me borrow"
and then:
"Damn, if we lose a job (and/or lose the house), we're gonna need more cash."
and then there's also the consideration that the 401k tax exemption will be more valuable next year after the Dems raise taxes on the "rich" who have no significant assets anymore but are still productively employed.
Half-right. The payroll taxes should be abolished and the revenue replaced by a bump in the progressive income tax and/or cap gains. Plus we need pay/go back.
No pigs for a few hours unless a bank fails ...
best to all
Another stimulus for the upcoming "recovery" in auto sales?
I actually thought this was about the uptick rule before clicking through......
My first thought was.."sure pull that out of the ass on an op.ex week."
Ciao
MS
BTW, I missed the auto sales thread, but there's one more demographic factor which tends to undercut the "12-13 million sales/year" idea, and that is that there's a fresh trend towards (a) urbanization of the population, resulting in (b) use of mass transit and/or bicycles rather than autos. Especially if energy prices remain on a "permanently high plateau" (i.e. oil not at $20-$30/barrel). More reasons why some of the bubble car inventory won't necessarily be replaced. At least in the U.S.
BFF Poll:
HomeGnome 4
Rob Dawg 4
Nova 4
Citizen M 2
Vonbek 7
bAnk Failure 4
Scrooge McDuck 8
MS 0
Tim2012 2
Speed Racer 1
Scone 3
JP 3
Comrade Scott 3
Nades 3
Blackhalo 4
pigpen 1
E Thomas St 4
sneering nil 2
gabyjan 3
Polling is closed.
Thanks to all who participated!
yet another reason just to stop paying on the mortgage and ignore any and all correspondence until the sheriff shows up. I think the likes of Kenny and Jamie know that moral hazard is a two-way street.
Not to mention the impact on fuel prices of a global commitment to 2 degree maximum warming and implied decarbonization of the economy. Gas-powered transportation costs will have to remain fairly high in the future to make that scenario stick.
Definitely get a lawyer if you are considering a short sale or a deed in lieu. You are wasting your time and money if you agree to a short sale, and then the bank pursues the deficiency and reports to the credit agency and sends a 1099 and does all the other things you were trying to avoid by a short sale. You can easily end up worse off than if you had done nothing and just let the lender foreclose.
I got five on it
poic - good to hear!
.................
OT I at my sisters watching a bunch of TV now, I didnt watch much in the past. All I see are extended car warranties commercials. Is this new and a result of people keeping their existing car longer or have these always been around?
got another 52 mins for ga.
i figured that banks could and would go after remainder of loan.
Uhoh someone on this board is gonna blow an aneurism (:
House Dems to tax rich to pay for health care
Yahoo! 404 - Page Not Found
So what is bent into corporate welfare is generally a stimulus for what the government wants.
And what the government wants is to reward its corporate owners to the greatest extent while pacifying all other interests.
Pretty soon you'll be able to get one of those pretty little plastic "rebate" type cards when you sell your home short. Except instead of a rebate a retailer gives to you for buying something, it'll be a rebate that you as the seller owe to the bank! If they do it right, it can incorporate its own little debt clock, with the interest charges accruing minute-by-minute ("just like the national debt") as a reminder that you really do want to pay the bank what you owe them.
Another reason short sales are a bad idea for buyer, and seller.
Just stop paying and live in the property rent free for 2 years. If they are going to go after you anyway...
Pigged: "We were at the HHS and the young lady had no help but announced if she was pregnant then should could get housing, food, utilities, medicade and a check"
Speaking of, I saw a disgusting glimpse last night - "16 and pregnant" on MTV while flipping thru the channels. It was about a rather stupid, largesse girl who's pregnant....and her unwed mother who's also pregnant. Living in their grandmother's house. Pretty sure they all collect massive amount of welfare from the government. MTV....turning girls into sluts, then to baby cannons.
I am so glad I don't contribute taxes to the US government anymore.
nades....for the most part they have always been around mostly in snail-mail form however I too have noticed the proliferation on TV recently. I think it's just because it's gotten much cheaper to do a TV ad than in year's past.
Ciao
MS
"House Dems to tax rich"
That's nonsense. They're taxing high incomes. Rich people don't need income, and what they do find to be useful in that category, they get from untaxed bonds.
If we have universal health care can we have mandatory weigh ins and make cigarettes illegal for people on the plan? One can opt out if they want....
"yet another reason just to stop paying on the mortgage and ignore any and all correspondence until the sheriff shows up. "
...in two years.
The Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. is gearing up to handle a large number of bank failures expected as a result of bad mortgages, both in residential and commercial real estate, an economist said Tuesday.
“They know they’re going to take down a large number of banks and they can’t do it until they’re staffed up,” said Mark Dotzour, chief economist and director of research for the Real Estate Center at Texas A&M University.
Dotzour expects federal regulators to establish an agency, similar to the Resolution Trust Corp. that disposed of assets belonging to insolvent S&Ls in the late 1980s and early 1990s.
Economist: FDIC gearing up for bank closures - Washington Business Journal:
@POIC, that's not Dems taxing the rich, that's Dems taxing high-income people. Conflating "wealth" (being "rich") with "income" is yet another one of the fallacious Orwellian language abuses that I was ranting about last night.
But, I suppose this new tax thing will be good for protecting what's left of the muni bond markets after California finishes imploding, eh?
NASCAR got a nice fat welfare check in the last pork package.
MS - sounds reasonable... good point about cheaper air time...
Yogi
NASCAR bailout???
Byz: I sure hope you're feeling better now that you downed that half a bottle of whatever it is you have handy. Still, I admire your ability to let 'er rip.
As for how many banks swoon this week, I am leaning toward a double digit doozy of a BFF. I am not predicting it, I'm leaning toward it. Of course, I could be wrong.
ghost-
over this year and next, the time will be closer to 3 IMO. I know of two in Escondido that stopped paying in Jan. of '06...still no eviction notice.
Ciao
MS
Re: corporate welfare. I particularly love the retraining money that fast-food companies get for people who generally last perhaps a month or two at a job?
Just another reason to mail in the spare set of keys and squat until you can take title by adverse posession.
Broker Dealers also do this when redeeming stock. Banks also do it when depositing/crediting checks. The 5 day float adds up to a lot of money.
and that is exactly why BofA won't go down.
2 banks today, not usual suspects. Maybe TN, NJ
They should use puts instead.
Gee, a penalty for trying to help out the banksters.
Just walk away becomes a preferable structure for getting out from under your house.
A really suboptimal strategy from banksters once again surfaces.
Does anybody think this is going to get better without the Velvet Fist of Government breaking down the banks natural desire to screw America out of every last dime?
You know, I am starting to like the idea of nationalization.
I am so fed up with the crappy shenanigans.
Robert Reich is starting to make sense.
Someday this war's gonna end...
What irks me most is that the dems aren't taxing the rich, they're taxing the productive.
Although, then again, this might be a good way to extract clawbacks from Wall Street. Not so many other areas where folks'll be earning over $350K/year, are there? Especially folks in single-income housholds that are becoming more common... Sigh.
Is this the start of the death of Non-recourse mortgages/debt?
Also - if a short-seller gets his or her outstanding balance forgiven by the lender, does that seller end up getting taxed on that balance as debt-forgiveness income?
BFF Poll:
HomeGnome 4
Rob Dawg 4
Nova 4
Citizen M 2
Vonbek 7
bAnk Failure 4
Scrooge McDuck 8
MS 0
Tim2012 2
Speed Racer 1
Scone 3
JP 3
Comrade Scott 3
Nades 3
Blackhalo 4
pigpen 1
E Thomas St 4
sneering nil 2
gabyjan 3
Hollywood Hack 5
Comrade Alexei 2
Burn 6
Volker 10
Yogi 6.5
Polling will remain open for 11 more minutes and then that's it!
"and that is exactly why BofA won't go down."
BofA is also one of only 2 behind-the-scene check clearing houses in the US. I think the other is Bank of Mellon but not totally sure.
BFF: 6
Option-ARM Mortgages Turning Worse Than Subprime
WSJ Error Page - WSJ.com
The U.S. Senate shows NASCAR a little bailout love - From the Marbles - NASCAR Blog - Yahoo! Sports
But a dollar in tax breaks is a different dollar from a dollar handed to a pregnant teenager.
Ask a bank accountant.
"Also - if a short-seller gets his or her outstanding balance forgiven by the lender, does that seller end up getting taxed on that balance as debt-forgiveness income?"
I'm pretty sure that you are no longer taxed on debt foregiveness on short-sales.
"Robert Reich is starting to make sense."
And he's getting taller, but he's still shopping in the Husky section of Sears.
So what is bent into corporate welfare is generally a stimulus for what the government wants.
Yep. Apparently in China stimulus means ordering the banks to recreate the US housing disaster.
Back to CR's post: "Lenders appear to be inserting language into short sale contracts that allow them to sue for any "deficiency," or the amount lost by a bank by selling a home for less than the mortgage"...
And of course, since the homeowners by and large aren't so good at taking time to read the fine print: how many folks are just going to get screwed by this? It's not like your average short seller is going to be in the best of shape in terms of stress and emotional health... or that they can afford legal assistance...
Okay, I'm all in for 10.
yogi Gracias
Wasn't today Dawg meltdown day?
"Conflating "wealth" (being "rich") with "income" is yet another one of the fallacious Orwellian language abuses that I was ranting about last night."
Agreed.
Speaking of Orwell, I was re-reading 1984 recently. Highly recommended, the words ring truer today than ever. Here is a good snippet, good stuff:
"From the moment when the machine first made its appearance it was clear to all thinking people that the need for human drudgery, and therefore to a great extent for human inequality, had disappeared. If the machine were used deliberately for that end, hunger, overwork, dirt, illiteracy, and disease could be eliminated within a few generations But it was also clear that an all-around increase in wealth threatened the destruction... of a hierarchical society. In a world in which everyone worked short hours, had enough to eat, lived in a house with a bathroom and a refrigerator, and possessed a motorcar or even an airplane, the most obvious and perhaps the most important form of inequality would already have disappeared. If it once became general, wealth would confer no distinction. Such a society could not long remain stable. For if leisure and security were enjoyed by all alike, the great mass of human beings who are normally stupefied by poverty would become literate and would learn to think for themselves; and when once they had done this, they would sooner or later realize that the privileged minority had no function, and they would sweep it away. In the long run, a hierarchical society was only possible on a basis of poverty and ignorance... It is deliberate policy to keep even the favoured groups somewhere near the brink of hardship because a general state of scarcity increases the importance of small privileges and thus magnifies the distinction between one group and another... The social atmosphere is that of a besieged city, where the possession of a lump of horseflesh makes the difference between wealth and poverty. "
That's nonsense. They're taxing high incomes. Rich people don't need income, and what they do find to be useful in that category, they get from untaxed bonds.
Exactly right.
Rich have always gone underground wrt to 'money'... they own land, whole or controlling shares in companies, banks, metal, art, etc... turning these assets into 'cash' only so long as to complete a specific transaction then back into some sort of non-cash and almost transparent asset and effectively non-taxable.
They aren't dummies.
"over this year and next, the time will be closer to 3 IMO. I know of two in Escondido that stopped paying in Jan. of '06...still no eviction notice."
You are probably right. I am looking at loans that are finally going through foreclosure today, and many are near two years. Any going into default today are probably looking at 3 years...
There will be 6 and a half bank failures. The FDIC will take an action that is ambiguous in some way.
Vonbek777, poic,
Yes I am for welfare and not for just pumping money into supporting bad behavior. I have had enough section 8 renters to see the system up front. I believe if you need help then you have to repay in some manner. Stops the free loaders real fast. It can be worked out in many ways and I bet it is an incentive to get off of it. Community service, day care for others, peer counseling, even cash pay back if it is easier. Of course if one is disabled that is completely different. Lots of things can be worked out.
Corporate welfare has it's place as long as it is not abused. That seems to be the key now days Rip it off mentality.
NHRA I think is still a nonprofit organization.
JP (homepage, profile) wrote on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 2:22 pm
Wasn't today Dawg meltdown day?
Next Wed.
On the subject of taxing the rich for health care; income taxes are designed to prevent people from becoming rich. The rich control assets, they try to avoid regular income.
Can we please re-institute debtors' prisons?
re: Nascar
Racetracks get break in bailout bill - Martinsville Bulletin
"One provision in the bill extends for one year a seven-year depreciation timetable that NASCAR and other motorsport racing facilities have had for some years. It is the same tax break that amusement parks enjoy.
Without the extension, the tracks would have to depreciate the cost of their improvements over 15 years, raising their taxes by $100 million."
Other country's get tourism dollar's to build race tracks (not for nascar) and stage F1 races in the middle of no where and in front of virtually no one but that way of doing business would never fly here...but they found a way to make it fly with the depreciation schedule.
I HATE NASCAR it's nothing more than wrestling on four wheels.
Ciao
MS
Ben, sorry just take it personally. Honestly don't know where I stand on any of it. I grew up with a man's got a do what a man's got to do John Wayne upbringing. You make your own way. And that is still true. But what my wife has gone through, it makes me sick, and has changed my mind on a few things. I have actually had fantasies about going out to California and taking care of some unfinished business in the Mojave desert... sometimes you can't leave and get away. She had one 'father' with a sword fetish that used to chase them around the house. Another with a shotgun. Pretty sure the youngest two were sexually molested. Pot and lots of other drug abuse, oh and grandpa used to like to watch porn with the kiddies and then tuck them in at night. Taken me ten years to get my wife to talk about some of this stuff. Lost her faith in the justice system when the judge said she was a hostile witness against both sides and her say couldn't be used.
greenlander writes: "Can we please re-institute debtors' prisons?"
To what end and for what net positive benefit?
"To what end and for what net positive benefit? "
For the satisfaction of careful savers and reasonable borrowers. Payback.
BFF Polling is CLOSED:
BFF Poll:
HomeGnome 4
Rob Dawg 4
Nova 4
Citizen M 2
Vonbek 7
bAnk Failure 4
Scrooge McDuck 8
MS 0
Tim2012 2
Speed Racer 1
Scone 3
JP 3
Comrade Scott 3
Nades 3
Blackhalo 4
pigpen 1
E Thomas St 4
sneering nil 2
gabyjan 3
Hollywood Hack 5
Comrade Alexei 2
Burn 6
Volker 10
Yogi 6.5
"Corporate welfare has it's place as long as it is not abused. That seems to be the key now days Rip it off mentality. "
But it has been abused for decades. Unfortunately there is no truthful discussion on main-stream TV outlets as they are controlled by big business.
I absolutely agree that we need a proper, open discussion on the appropriate role of welfare in American society. All welfare, personal and corporate. But unfortunately that won't happen. And the sad thing is that most business people don't even see what they are getting is a form of welfare.
greenlander writes: "Can we please re-institute debtors' prisons?"
To what end and for what net positive benefit?
Justice.
@ghostface - nice quote!
But this part: For if leisure and security were enjoyed by all alike, the great mass of human beings who are normally stupefied by poverty would become literate and would learn to think for themselves...
...strikes me as not quite right. During the great credit booms, the great mass of human beings who are normally stupefied by poverty became equally if not more stupefied by the entertainment options available when they became affluent. The evidence at hand suggests that under any conditions, the masses by and large aren't that interested in literacy, and feel that thinking is a painful chore.
@Dawg: And at a time when the asset values of the truly rich are declining at frightening speed, it becomes all the more important to prevent entry into the club by taxing incomes???
Burn: perhaps you'd be willing to articulate your logic as it escapes me.
Is this the start of the death of Non-recourse mortgages/debt?
More generally, I think we might be starting to see the transition of the government from "nice guy helping-hand mode" to "self-preservation at any cost mode".
That's always the potential tragedy of being "too nice" -- you get your self into a situation where you then have to be "too mean" simply to stay alive.
ghostinvestah: justice? in what sense of the concept?
One more reason not to do a short sale or just amil in the keys. Assuming you are underwater and in fin'l difficulty the best strategy right now seems to be just to stop paying on your mortgage and live rent free until the sherriff shows up at the door. Could be in 3 months, or a year or 3 years, but regardless you live rent free in the meantime. Pu the cash you save someplace safe and not easilly traced. With current short term rates you dont lose that much putting it in a safe deposit box at the bank rather than depositing it at the bank.
Wow.
The banks are their own worst enemy.
Welfare could be run as a nongovernmental organization. Think United Way, with all workers "taxed" (forced to chip in 1 or 2% of pay), but given choices as to where to allocate those taxes. Then let there be a marketplace of charity services to compete for those $$, and get Congress out of it.
Congress has only so many mental watt-hours/day, and the current ratio of watt-hours to dollars spent is frighteningly low. There's no way so few can manage so much spending with any degree of success.
this thread contains some of the most vacuous, banal comments in the history of the intertubes
logic? There's no logic. Just an appeal to emotion! Prison is too good actually. Pitchforks and torches.
JPM is the other one, that extra day's float is what allowed both of them to expand(and have those aquisitions be accretive so quickly). Tech was done by IBM
burn--look just above your post
"Then let there be a marketplace of charity services to compete for those $$, and get Congress out of it."
Shhhh, don't let GS get any ideas. Image trying to get your welfare dollars and finding they've been securitized and sold off to a pension fund that just went under.
"That's nonsense. They're taxing high incomes. Rich people don't need income, and what they do find to be useful in that category, they get from untaxed bonds."
Exactly right.
Rich have always gone underground wrt to 'money'... they own land, whole or controlling shares in companies, banks, metal, art, etc... turning these assets into 'cash' only so long as to complete a specific transaction then back into some sort of non-cash and almost transparent asset and effectively non-taxable.
They aren't dummies.
One of the interesting observations Mancur Olson makes in his books is that nations which implement progressive taxation also tend to implement loopholes that allow the rich and influential to escape that taxation.
In other words, to a certain extent progressive taxation is kind of a an illusion and periods of real progressive taxation are quickly undone by special interest lobbying.
with foreclosures some states have what is called "deficiency judgment" ga does so either foreclosure or short sell the bank just might get its money (the original loan).
Surely you are joking, Mr. Volker.
"this thread contains some of the most vacuous, banal comments in the history of the intertubes "
You clearly don't read Geopolitical or Political TickerForum threads.
Congress has only so many mental watt-hours/day,
If you understand this, then why can't you understand that the population has only so many production hours per day, ergo it only has so many consumption hours per day.
Work is a finite resource. Current economics assumes that there's an infinite mass of unrealized work floating around the NeverSphere, simply waiting to be plucked forth into Reality.
It ain't so, Joe.
"this thread contains some of the most vacuous, banal comments in the history of the intertubes "
Sounds like tonight's off to a good start...
or craigslist world politics forum...
banks need to go after the short sellers if there net assets (US+abroad) can meet the short fall. Also, if the person is employed , his salary ought to be garnished. Only in scenarios where the individual's situation is truely dire, one can make an argument to let go of the short fall.
Burn: serious as a heart attack, and your approach to contributing lacks reason is clumsy, shrill, and facile
Other than that, I am sure you are considered most erudite amongst your peer group.
A privately owned one I hope. Let the profits soar.
Vonbek777,
I grew up thinking the John Wayne deal also. It works for me. Today is excuse and not my responsibility. When you bust you tail and everyone says you are crazy and make then they still say you crazy and it can't be done, I love it. Life was fast for me and the lessons hit hard and fast learn or die. Many of us have lost the point of what our government is supposed to do. All this bail out preceeded by no government oversight is beyond comprehension. The reality of family is you pick your wife and the rest becomes baggage, Some current and past. Money is on the government side even in justice. Just do the best we can do.
To what end and for what net positive benefit?
Justice.
If you want justice, then institute lender's prisons.
Lending was a choice, too.
Stop dealing in self-serving bigotry.
Broward, in spite of your many obvious short comings recently listed by your penultimate lady friend, you're my kind of thinker 8)
how about we just split the difference and call it Enabler's prison?
There is room for all...
Ciao
MS
I grew up thinking the John Wayne deal also.
Which is why you are baffled by the current situation. It's just not an issue of "laziness" and "pulling up your boot straps". There's eight quarts of water on the island. You grabbed seven of them and now you tell people to "make their own", then wonder why you're taxed.
Work is a finite resource.
The system is a holistic web now and your answers are self-serving to the detriment of everyone else.
Your answers were good when work was simple and goods were simple.
That's not the world now.
"this thread contains some of the most vacuous, banal comments in the history of the intertubes "
In America the majority raises formidable barriers around the liberty of opinion; within these barriers an author may write what he pleases, but woe to him if he goes beyond them. -de Tocqueville
I'm going out on a limb and predicting no FDIC bank failures today.
The hypothetical reason is the process. The FDIC bank failure process puts the "failing" banks out to bid about 10 days before the actual fail date. They wouldn't have been putting banks out to bid over the July 4th holiday weekend, because the bidders would be less likely to nibble on the proferred bait.
If this is accurate, bank failures should be less common on weeks following the major holiday weekends. (Now, for minor holiday weekends, there might be more failures because the institutions being solicited for bids might actually like taking the extra non-work day to assess the upcoming victim...)
The Prisoner of Lenda.
Sorry, but Arbitrage_Macht is not Frei right now.
how about we just split the difference and call it Enabler's prison?
There is room for all...
Ciao
MS
How about we call it a Moral Stimulus Program?
Totally OT but I'm trying to figure out what 10 year rate will have Jaas showing up again. When it breaks 3%, 2.5%? Any takers.
My first thought was.."sure pull that out of the ass on an op.ex week.
It sure worked last year in July Op-Ex week.
Moment of silence to honor the coming one-year anniversary of the senseless deaths of so many young and eager index puts
That's not the world now.
I do get it Look at the world now. The old rules do win.
"Today is excuse and not my responsibility."
There's also the mindset today that I got where I am on merit, so I don't owe nothing to nobody. Leads a lot of people passing through "meritocratic" institutions to believe they're entitled to make a buck by screwing someone else. Maybe not as numerous, but a much more dangerous belief when widely shared by the ruling class, and a much better explanation of how we arrived at our current mess.
Thanks, Ben...
The reality of family is you pick your wife and the rest becomes baggage, Some current and past.
My dad's words to a T. Past is shit, everyone has a history, what you do here and now that matters. Wife believes it as well. My problem is I am not sure hell is good enough for some people.
.
"There is room for all..."
And whom would we give the keys to? Or, would they take turns locking each other up?
in spite of your many obvious short comings recently listed by your penultimate lady friend
Magnum XL, baby.
Mr. Volker,
My serious questions here get good, reasonable responses. Nobody else seems to have a problem with me. If I bother you that much, I implore you to press the "Ignore User" link next to this post before that coronary sets in.
" Rob Dawg (homepage, profile) wrote on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 5:26 pm
On the subject of taxing the rich for health care; income taxes are designed to prevent people from becoming rich. The rich control assets, they try to avoid regular income."
As such, rather than leveling the playing field, the progressive income tax helps maintain the status quo rather than allow for upward mobility. That probably explains the difference between the Kennedys and the Romneys, etc.
ghostfaceinvestah: did you find that ditty of a quote on wiki?
nations which implement progressive taxation also tend to implement loopholes that allow the rich and influential to escape that taxation.
You're darn tootin. And soon those rich folks will be able to set up perpetual trusts tax free before the estate(and gift) tax sunsets.
I'm setting two up myself: one for my business investments, the other to manage distributions from another trust.
Totally OT but I'm trying to figure out what 10 year rate will have Jaas showing up again. When it breaks 3%, 2.5%? Any takers.
If there was leverage involved, perhaps never.
I can tell you from personal experience that psychologically the worst thing that can happen to you in a market is to be "right" about something but end up on the losing end because your position was too big to stay in it.
It's the kind of thing that makes you never want to talk about this stuff again.
" greenlander (profile) wrote on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 5:27 pm
Can we please re-institute debtors' prisons?"
We have, but it's called RRE now-
Burn: your "...serious questions..." are not part and parcel of this dialogue.
"ghostfaceinvestah: did you find that ditty of a quote on wiki? "
ooooohhhh, snappy comeback.
it's called reading classic literature. try it.
Jas Jain is a concept, not a real person.
And a born and bred one to boot!
volcker-
Key's? Ha...you're assuming there is some humanity associated with it.....
Nope...no keys. Roach motel for the lot.
Ciao
MS
Ghostfacedinvestah - I'm positively shocked to find you quoting the socialist parts of Orwell. I recommend Burmese Days as well.
Ghost: when attempting to drape your intellectual schlong across the table, be sure that it measures sufficient to the task.
@Broward: "If you understand this, then why can't you understand that the population has only so many production hours per day, ergo it only has so many consumption hours per day.
Work is a finite resource. Current economics assumes that there's an infinite mass of unrealized work floating around the NeverSphere, simply waiting to be plucked forth into Reality."
Excellent point. (I assume you meant "one" and not "you" in "why can't you understand". I believe I do understand.
I used to hear technogeek speak of the imminent "cognitive surplus". Too many brains with too much free time, ready to solve the world's problems through human cloud computing via the blogosphere!! Instead we have CR BFF "debates" about nothing of substance. Will the electrons driven to new heights of eloquence on this forum change the world? Probably not.
But back to the original point: what economists call an "economic decline" usually involves people finding extra time on their hands, which they no longer get/wish to spend in either production or consumption, but instead in leisure. Provided those people can satisfy basic needs and wants (an allocation issue, not a total-production issue), that might actually be a better society to have!
As you say, "Economic Growth" and "Productivity Growth" (of the exponential type) generally involve more people moving faster and faster to produce and consume as much as possible in the minimum time period. Beyond a certain point that isn't even healthy at the individual level.
We have a forty-hour workweek because it was the rough-cut point where we could jigger production and consumption into equilibrium after the Great Depression forced recognition of imbalance.
We have six decades of increasing government payrolls as the jigger that's maintained consumption in the face of rising productivity.
It's not that hard to figure this out, especially if you're frigging supergenius self-made man.
broward and I are intellectual titans.
"
Jas Jain is a concept, not a real person.
And a born and bred one to boot!
"
Well there was definitely a person behind the concept for longtime on CR, and crotchety at that.
Broward you're waxing eloquent at the moment so something must be in good rhythm, but work and goods were never quite so. The Eskimo did manage to hunt whales and fowl without bronze, taking what they needed. Their technology was nowhere approaching "simple". Elegant, yes.
Good night from the formerly fertile crescent.
The reality of family is you pick your wife and the rest becomes baggage,
Hell, many of my friends would argue that even the wife becomes baggage.
"broward and I are intellectual titans. "
Uhoh, now we've got the big swinging craniums here.
Frozen moons orbiting a distant planet
"Any going into default today are probably looking at 3 years... "
Man, three years rent free. The system is broken.
And LBD bellyaching about food stamps, when a big chuck of California is going to get 3 years of rent free living, the banks that made those bad loans are getting 0% interest and a bailout or backstop for a state of fiscally retarded whiners.
We need a test...in the spirit of the Monty Python from earlier today, I suggest the witch test. Who wants to volunteer first?
Well there was definitely a person behind the concept for longtime on CR, and crotchety at that.
At this point, he might still be posting and no one would notice because so many have him on ignore.
volker the viking you're on fire tonight... what gives?
Language sits between thinking and action. Signing a harmful short sale document without understanding the language in it turns out to be a harmful action.
" poic (profile) wrote on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 5:55 pm
"broward and I are intellectual titans. "
Uhoh, now we've got the big swinging craniums here."
Intellectual "beef pizzle" ?
Just joking... I like those guys;)
nades: oh, nothing, just loosing some air from inflated baggage
"Any going into default today are probably looking at 3 years... "
I think that very much depends on who is holding the mortgage. Some regional banks, if they are holding original mortgages, may not be as swamped as the big boys and may act faster on foreclosures.
"Frozen moons orbiting a distant planet "
Great!
OT but fascinating. Read this and wash your hands frequently, lose some weight:
Intensive-Care Patients With Severe Novel Influenza A (H1N1) Virus Infection --- Michigan, June 2009
Comrade Coinz: genau! However, more likely the community banks would fall into this category.
Wisdom Speaker (homepage, profile) wrote on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 2:31 pm
@Dawg: And at a time when the asset values of the truly rich are declining at frightening speed, it becomes all the more important to prevent entry into the club by taxing incomes???
Cinco-X (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 2:47 pm
"On the subject of taxing the rich for health care; income taxes are designed to prevent people from becoming rich. The rich control assets, they try to avoid regular income." - RD
As such, rather than leveling the playing field, the progressive income tax helps maintain the status quo rather than allow for upward mobility. That probably explains the difference between the Kennedys and the Romneys, etc.
Yup. And let's not skirt the issue. Declining assets are not a great thing but the point is to prevent a relative leveling of things. The rich actively support safety nets to prevent the creation of a dissatisfaction class to forestall economic confiscation schemes and they support a progressive income tax to prevent the rise of an acquisition class that would compete with them for the cream. It's a delicate balance.
"Ghostfacedinvestah - I'm positively shocked to find you quoting the socialist parts of Orwell. I recommend Burmese Days as well."
Actually, I believe Orwell said that every line he wrote after 1936 was either directly or indirectly against Totalitarianism.
I agree with those parts of his writings. I believe Burmese Days was before that?
I suggest the witch test. Who wants to volunteer first?
To build a bridge out of her?
big swinging cranii, as it were.
"Uhoh someone on this board is gonna blow an aneurism (:
House Dems to tax rich to pay for health care
Yahoo! 404 - Page Not Found
A media person told me that the original story was from The Associated Press. AP, she said, is very critical of anything Democratic: Democratic sponsored programs, Democratic politicians, etc.
Republicans cut taxes substantially for the rich when times were good, it makes sense to me to raise their taxes when the rest of America is suffering; especially after the American taxpayer bailed out the banksters and other high income, bonus receiving people.
//Can we please re-institute debtors' prisons?//
No! We have have too many people in jail already. i think we should release some of the non-violent ones...
NASCAR got a nice fat welfare check in the last pork package.
RE: witch test, In Tidewater area of VA, there is Witch Duck Road. It seems it was the place where the pilgrims would tie up a suspected witch, extend the person over the water and drop them into the water while secured to a pole. They'd leave the suspect underwater a sufficient time and if they lived, they were acquitted.
Those Pilgrims, what a fun and creative bunch!
I have to admit, I love the consternation and the perplexity of the Free Market / True Believers. It was all fine and good to bow and genuflect to The Market God when it reward them, but now that The God has issued an edict to "share the work and share the wealth", the believers are stupified.
TB: Doctor, doctor, it hurts whenever I work hard and get so little!!!!
TB: What should I do?
Doctor: Stop working so hard?
I thought if they lived; it proved they were a witch.
So, DEATH!
If there's gonna be a battle of titans I suggest the potential participants recall Epimetheus was a titan too.
HomeGnome--I think you're right. But then, they were a lot of fun folk. Kinda tuff test to pass. I mean they were dying to pass, huh?
Stupefied, I tells ya.
Oh, woe, the woe.
Why have you forsaken us, Oh Free Market God?
How have we angered you?
It must be that Evil Government God, it can't possible be YOU who have betrayed us, FMG!
Errh, sorry, guys.
Yup, it's the StaPuft Marshmellow Man.
A bit of backtesting on the "no BFF on post-holiday weeks" tends to support the idea, but not always:
0 failures following Memorial Day, May 25.
2 failures following Easter Sunday, April 12
1 failure 2/20/2009 following President's Day, Feb 16
1 failure 1/23/2009 following Martin Luther King Day, Jan 19
0 failures following New Year's Day weekend
0 failures following Christmas weekend, Dec 25 2008
1 failure 12/5/2008 following Thanksgiving weekend, Nov 27 2008
0 failures following Columbus Day weekend, Oct 13 2008
1 failure 9/5/2008 following Labor Day weekend, Sep 1 2008
1 failure 7/11/2008 following Independence Day weekend, July 4 2008
Total of 74 failures in the past 12 months. Average of about 1.5 failures/week for all weeks. Average of 0.7 failures on post-holiday Fridays. Doesn't look statistically significant, though.
Banks should recognize the impermanent nature of form means that nothing possesses essential, enduring identity, including mortgages.
The emptiness of credit instruments is an insight that leads to wisdom and inner peace. Buddhist Sunyata.
"//Can we please re-institute debtors' prisons?//
No! We have have too many people in jail already. i think we should release some of the non-violent ones."
Yeah the math on debtors prisons is pretty bad. i.e. who pays the 80K/year to keep the debtors fed and guarded? Sounds like yet another subsidy for bankers too lazy, stupid or greedy to do their own due diligence. NOD, eviction and foreclosure is the right way to go, but of course the banks don't like that too much either, as it depreciates their assets and drives more unwinding.
vtv - ahhh i see.... cheers!
"I have to admit, I love the consternation and the perplexity of the Free Market / True Believers. "
Who actually believes we have had anything resembling a "free market" for the past 100 years?
If you don't pay people money, they don't buy stuff.
Pretty simple.
In my best Michael Weston monlogue....
"Its not... that hard... to figure this... out".
" volker the viking (profile) wrote on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 6:07 pm
RE: witch test, In Tidewater area of VA, there is Witch Duck Road. It seems it was the place where the pilgrims would tie up a suspected witch, extend the person over the water and drop them into the water while secured to a pole. They'd leave the suspect underwater a sufficient time and if they lived, they were acquitted.
Those Pilgrims, what a fun and creative bunch!"
Fascinating; I thought the Pilgrims were unique to Massachussets.
That said, I had kinfolk killed in Maryland for being a witch. He was a small man, but incredibly strong. So strong in fact that the locals became convinced that he could have only gotten his strength from the devil. I think he was drowned as well.
Good Gawd Man it's only a virtual beer...
and bragging rights, of course.
"A bit of backtesting"
Hey, thanks for the info!
And Monday, when they gleefully report 'no bank failures!', we'll be treated to a day of green shoots.
If only Ken and CR would come up with a 'blunt' icon...
Traderwalt -- we had tax cuts for the rich even when the times were not good. To stimulate demand. In fact, for one of our major parties, the solution to every economic problem is tax cuts for the rich!
As for the other party...
Of course, I have the enormous advantage of not toting an ideology around to poison my reasoning ability. I read FreeRepublic and DemocraticUnderground, I ignore Bush and Obama and all I did for thirty years was troubleshoot and make things work.
I still say that a bank failure is one thing.....shotgun marriages from one to another is not a failure.....yet.
Technically CFC never failed......
Ciao
MS
But the following week, when they shutter ten, I suggest the term Double Digit Doozy be added to the glossary.
"Doesn't look statistically significant, though."
At least you're putting hard numbers on the table, and even admitting to their insignificance.
+2 (approx.)
I keep waiting for the email that tells me to show up for my new position to work on Plan D or E.
At least right now we are below the radar here- for the most part.
I don't expect that position to be maintained.
But O has a big problem, both parties are still fighting from the old viewpoints, and that transition will be brutal to the new reality.
RR let the cat out of the bag, and now we are going to have to go radical to make real impacts on the economy, with new ideas floating over the old structure.
GS is fighting a rear guard action for the old guard.
There will be new era, whether we like it or not.
Get ready, buckle up and hang on.
Don't cling too much to the old ways, they are changing.
Someday this war's gonna end...
"If there's gonna be a battle of titans I suggest the potential participants recall Epimetheus was a titan too."
Yeah, but if they resemble Epimetheus they'll remember it too late.
"
Rob Dawg (homepage, profile) wrote on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 6:03 pm
.....
"On the subject of taxing the rich for health care; income taxes are designed to prevent people from becoming rich. The rich control assets, they try to avoid regular income." - RD
.....
Yup. And let's not skirt the issue. Declining assets are not a great thing but the point is to prevent a relative leveling of things. The rich actively support safety nets to prevent the creation of a dissatisfaction class to forestall economic confiscation schemes and they support a progressive income tax to prevent the rise of an acquisition class that would compete with them for the cream. It's a delicate balance."
Wow! Are you sure you're from MA? You don't sound like the locals here to me
BTW, I totally agree. It's also funny how the same wealthy folks think it's their right to hire illegal aliens as servants, etc. At least they could pay the taxes for the hired help......
"Get ready, buckle up and hang on."
We're approaching the DROP ZONE.
ghostfaceinvestah (profile) wrote on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 2:31 pm
greenlander writes: "Can we please re-institute debtors' prisons?"
To what end and for what net positive benefit?
Justice.
You mean like Teddy?
HomeGnome wrote:
"Get ready, buckle up and hang on."
We're approaching the DROP ZONE.
Soon you think? I don't know. Dead things can continue moving for a long time due to inertia.
"Who actually believes we have had anything resembling a "free market" for the past 100 years? "
Adjusted for inflation, 10,000 years...
" Rob Dawg (homepage, profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 6:22 pm
You mean like Teddy?"
LOL- Yes, like Teddy-
I hear those cave men were shred investors though. Not sure if using saber tooth tiger teeth as currency worked out in the end.
Wow! Are you sure you're from MA? You don't sound like the locals here to me...
That's why they kicked me out. S'course here in California I'm none too popular either.
good commentary on Bloomberg about CA budget crisis:
Trouble for Treasuries Lurks as California Melts: David Reilly - Bloomberg.com
"So what would President Barack Obama do if given the choice between allowing a California default and taking on more debt on behalf of taxpayers?
Do the math. It only involves one figure -- 55. That’s the number of Electoral College votes held by California, the most of any state. "
RD: doubt you'd fit in anywhere in Utah either 8)
@Rob Dawg: "The rich actively support safety nets to prevent the creation of a dissatisfaction class to forestall economic confiscation schemes and they support a progressive income tax to prevent the rise of an acquisition class that would compete with them for the cream. It's a delicate balance."
But actually it's not a delicate balance, it's a very simple. The powerful just use the proceeds from the progressive taxation of the acquisition-seekers to fund the safety nets. So when the safety net needs to be stronger, you know where to go!
BTW, my "error" in starting down the path of the self-selected "acquisition class" was not recognizing that after a certain point, the educational meritocracy runs out, and sooner than I would have expected to boot.
To be fair, my experience isn't in the financial sector, but the principle applies where I work as well. One might substitute "powerful" for "rich" and get the same meaning.
I chose not to work the social networks available to me, especially after I realized what the upper echelons had to do to stay in power -- not my cup of tea. I'm sort of "Galting in place" -- I've decided to work for personal satisfaction, since the "rewards" around here don't justify the moral and emotional expenses exacted from the willing servants of the system. I expect the old regime to fail of its own weight at some point.
It was nice to have this recognition in time to wring some alpha from the financial markets as payback for lost home equity, though.
broward - the pawn shop is extremely busy we are still buying lots of gold and silver . I'm currently seeing on average a rolex every day coming in now . As far as the sales side is alittle bit ahead of last year as we are seeing more shoppers looking for deals . The custom jewelry side is steady (we do cad , cam , casting in house ) . Rolexes 10 years and older there is no market for outside a few rare watches ( Daytona ect ) . You used to be able to sell a wore out stainless one for $1000 to $1500 bucks. The stores that offer no in house jewelry servicesare getting killed . As far as the rest of the pawn shops I'll know more next week after going to the National Pawn convention .
"
Jas Jain is a concept, not a real person.
And a born and bred one to boot!
"
Well there was definitely a person behind the concept for longtime on CR, and crotchety at that.
I'm fairly certain that Jas is CR himself just adding some spice to the comments.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
(From CBSnews)
The United States and other nations will inevitably confront world crises where they have a "moral imperative" to intervene, President Obama said today -- but only in "exceptional" circumstances.
"There has to be a strong international outrage at what's taking place," Mr. Obama said in a press conference in L'Aquila, Italy, where the G8 summit has wrapped up. He called striking a balance between meeting that moral obligation and respecting national sovereignty "one of the most difficult questions in international affairs."
"I don't think there is a clean formula," he said. "In general, it is important for the sovereignty of nations to be respected."
"Don't cling too much to the old ways, they are changing.
Someday this war's gonna end..."
The Republicans lost all perspective when the Communism bogeyman fell apart as a compelling villain/adversary. Terrorism, run by a bunch of wackos in caves, funded by big oil theocracies is a prickly, poor substitute.
Cinco-X (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 3:25 pm
You mean like Teddy?"
LOL- Yes, like Teddy-?
For those too incurious to click the link; in 1995 Teddy Kennedy was worth $7.1m and in 2006 $102.8m.
Rob Dawg, you're popular with me whenever you speak the truth, e.g., at 2:26 p.m. today:
"On the subject of taxing the rich for health care; income taxes are designed to prevent people from becoming rich. The rich control assets, they try to avoid regular income. "
Where we have frequent disagreement is political 'truth.'
"I'm fairly certain that Jas is CR himself just adding some spice to the comments."
Don't bogart that thing...
Good Idea.. Implementation could be problematic..
Obama Seeks to Let SEC Bar Some Broker Pay Practices (Update1)
Obama Seeks to Let SEC Bar Some Broker Pay Practices (Update1) - Bloomberg.com
By Jesse Westbrook
July 10 (Bloomberg) -- The Obama administration is seeking to give the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission power to prohibit pay practices at brokerages and investment advisers and broader authority to bar individuals from work in the industry. The Treasury Department today sent Congress legislation that would let the SEC ban “sales practices, conflicts of interest and compensation schemes” deemed harmful to investors. The measure lets the agency remove individuals who violate rules from all aspects of the industry, rather than a specific segment such as selling securities or managing money.
Ghostfacedinvestah - I'm positively shocked to find you quoting the socialist parts of Orwell. I recommend Burmese Days as well.
Homage to Catalunya is an awesome book.
IIRC that's the one where he says he saw "true" socialism work for about 5 minutes in Barcelona and was never again able to get that vision of an ideal society out of his head.
"In general, it is important for the sovereignty of nations to be respected."
"In general?" "Exceptional" circumstances?
Plus ça change...
Back to 2007..
Goldman Sachs Reverts to Pre-Lehman Risk Mean as Profits Surge
Goldman Sachs Reverts to Pre-Lehman Risk Mean as Profits Surge - Bloomberg.com
By Christine Harper
July 10 (Bloomberg) -- Goldman Sachs Group Inc. is poised to report the largest profit since it set earnings records in 2007, marking the return of a business model that was the envy of Wall Street before the financial crisis devastated competitors and spurred a government bailout.
Much dismantling of the American reality construct at CR today.
Having an anthropologist on staff here at the commentariat would be valuable for perspective. Looking at the 4.6 billion years the planet has careened around the sun and the paltry 200,000 years that some form of humanity has wandered the plains you realize the insignificance of our existence. The earth is the constant followed closely by DNA. DNA doesn't care what shape it wears only that it continues. The damage we've done to our environment and the continued attitude of being above all other forms of DNA expression will lead to our form of DNA reaching a dead end. Species end constantly, we can as well. The Earth will continue with some form of life.
Way OT but it is how I check my outlook when the actions of the few threaten the many. We all are on the same lifeboat and the economy is one of the smaller leaks I worry about most days.
Catholicism.. Original Sin.
//The damage we've done to our environment and the continued attitude of being above all other forms of DNA expression will lead to our form of DNA reaching a dead end.//
@Lucifer: Glad to see new rules, but... so what if the SEC bans something. Without an enforcement arm, who cares?
If a rulebook falls down on Wall Street, but no authorities are there to enforce it, does it make a sound?
I don't want to see rules. I don't want to see paper tigers. I want to see action. I want perp walks. I want to see blue-collar minor offenders released to make room for white-collar multimillion-dollar scammers. Given that the median income works out to about a million dollars over a human lifetime, it isn't even that outrageous to suggest life sentences or even death penalties for criminal behavior which costs society $10 million or more. I mean, that's only a 1-to-10 payback ratio.
In 2009, Contraction == Expansion.
Economists Raise U.S. Outlook as Recession Fades (Update1)
Economists Raise U.S. Outlook as Recession Fades (Update1) - Bloomberg.com
By Shobhana Chandra and Alex Tanzi
July 10 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. economy will expand faster than previously forecast in the second half of this year and in 2010 as a revival in consumer spending signals an end to the recession, a Bloomberg News survey showed. Growth will average 1.5 percent in the July-to-December period, compared with last month’s 1.2 percent projection, according to the median of 57 forecasts in the survey taken from July 2 to July 8. The jobless rate will exceed 10 percent early next year and average 9.8 percent for 2010.
..........“We are on the cusp of stabilization,” said Stephen Stanley, chief economist at RBS Securities Inc. in Stamford, Connecticut. “The right things are happening. They’re not happening fast enough to make everyone comfortable just yet, but we’re certainly headed in the right direction.”..........
Wisdom Speaker,
Who will watch the watchmen? Especially with regulatory capture and revolving doors..
@Credit Enema: The pawn shop news will be fascinating! I wonder whether the downslide in gold lately is the retail flipside of the "buying above spot" gold shortage last fall...
. . . . in 1995 Teddy Kennedy was worth $7.1m and in 2006 $102.8m.
Did a 15% long term capital gains tax rate have anything to do with that?
Even Warren Buffet admits his secretary pays a higher tax rate than he does.
The rich are not taxed while alive. This year or next they even get an out for dying.
"Way OT..."
Too much protest!
I can't wait to see the headlines Monday
"Stocks open strong as BFF beats whisper estimate. Median analyst estimate was for 2 closings"
"Street.com Cramer calls a bottom in bank closings, says go long"
"Geithner: Bank closings show that capitalism does work"
Gimmie a "B"!
Gimmie a "F"!
Gimmie a "F"!
What's that spell?
"BFF"!
Bank Failure Friday!
Happy weekend, CR community.
Do pawn shops make any money on the buy side?
Every pawn shop I've been to has so much overpriced crap I don't know how they move inventory.
I'd really love to see a general primer on how the biz works beyond the arb situation.
in spite of your many obvious short comings recently listed by your penultimate lady friend
Magnum XL, baby.
My sisters would give me those things as Christmas presents when I was 12 years old.
That's what passes for humor in my family.
“We are on the cusp of stabilization,” said Stephen Stanley, chief economist at RBS Securities Inc. in Stamford, Connecticut. “The right things are happening. They’re not happening fast enough to make everyone comfortable just yet, but we’re certainly headed in the right direction.”
More words backed up by nothing.
Head and sholders will probably fail. too many underwater short sellers are anticipating it
. if it does materialize it will stick a fork in the efficient market hypothesis. Target
8400 next week. And then 9000. Interesting Finance & Economic articles
Put that reeb down! Nobody knurds until a bank fails! This ain't Calvinball.
Head and sholders will probably fail. too many underwater short sellers are anticipating it
. if it does materialize it will stick a fork in the efficient market hypothesis. Target
8400 next week. And then 9000.
Amen. I was short an entire subdivision and 2 city blocks last week, but I got out while the gittin's good.
"I want to see blue-collar minor offenders released to make room for white-collar multimillion-dollar scammers. Given that the median income works out to about a million dollars over a human lifetime, it isn't even that outrageous to suggest life sentences or even death penalties for criminal behavior which costs society $10 million or more. I mean, that's only a 1-to-10 payback ratio."
It sure is a lot harder to put the wealthy into prison with the legal teams they are able to assemble, compared to the the kind of defense the blue collar folks get. For JD and DA guys looking to pad their conviction stats, it is a hard sell.
The long-term capital gains tax cut:
"changing the rules midstream"
"government picking winners and losers"
"another welfare stimulus pork bill".
No, sorry it was freedom-fighting.
Had nothing to do with the asset-securitization crisis. Move along, now.
@Lucifer -- yeah, who watches the police? And who watches Congress?
If the rulebooks were simple enough, the system transparent and competitive, and the majority of the people believed in the value of the rules and the system, then perhaps the people would pretty well police themselves? (Okay, give or take the usual trouble with the 10 Commandments.) And it would be easier to tell when the police where doing their jobs too.
I suppose even that is a pipe dream and the reality is that humanity is always a mess. But it does seem like we've taken the overspecialization a bit too far. Too much trust in bankers to take care of our finances, in politicians to take care of our government, in police to take care of our criminals, perhaps?
BTW, where I said "it isn't even that outrageous to suggest life sentences or even death penalties for criminal behavior which costs society $10 million or more." I would add that if clawbacks were done on the ill-gotten gains, one might use a fraction of the proceeds to fund the incarcerations. If you want to fund the prison system, go where the deep pocket criminals are!
Lucifer (profile) wrote on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 5:33 pm
Catholicism.. Original Sin.
//The damage we've done to our environment and the continued attitude of being above all other forms of DNA expression will lead to our form of DNA reaching a dead end.//
Prescient of them. The selfishness of the genes eventually results in their own unsustainability and extinction.
"
ghostfaceinvestah (profile) wrote on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 6:41 pm
“We are on the cusp of stabilization,” said Stephen Stanley"
"Cusp of stabilization"; good one. BTW, there's no need to back it up if you haven't actually said anything-
Jas Jain is a real person.
He has a phone number, an address and an acreage type house you can see on google maps.
I will not tell you know to do that though.
Cinco,
Did you already get your goats?
How much did they cost you?
Why should existence have a purpose?
//The selfishness of the genes eventually results in their own unsustainability and extinction.//
"
Blackhalo (homepage, profile) wrote on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 6:43 pm
It sure is a lot harder to put the wealthy into prison with the legal teams they are able to assemble, compared to the the kind of defense the blue collar folks get. For JD and DA guys looking to pad their conviction stats, it is a hard sell."
THAT, is what RICO is for......
Regulators put Seattle Bank on tighter leash
Business & Technology | Regulators put Seattle Bank on tighter leash | Seattle Times Newspaper
I knew you were a spook.
NSA?
FBI?
You, devil, you...
The U.S. economy will expand faster than previously forecast in the second half of this year and in 2010 as a revival in consumer spending signals an end to the recession, a Bloomberg News survey showed.
The irony of course is that the consumer is the one thing that hasn't been recovering.
Heed the warnings of economists like Andy Xie who say inventory cycles may create the appearance of recovery where there really is none.
anybody can be anybody on line, nothing is real, it's all emulation
Lucifer (profile) wrote on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 5:46 pm
Why should existence have a purpose?
//The selfishness of the genes eventually results in their own unsustainability and extinction.//
We can rest assured that it will go on until it doesn't.
Bingo! Too much trust and lack of accountability.
//But it does seem like we've taken the overspecialization a bit too far. //
We deal 95 % in Jewelry anything else we load on eBay . I'll loan on anything I can find a value on . Currently in talks with carnival cruise line about opening a jewelry store in roatan Honduras on there cruise dock to help move the diamond inventory . Most pawn shops are poorly run the idea is to build your loan book just like a bank with default rates are 15% . The idea is loan as much as possible if you believe they are coming back ( they take the item ring off ect )
HomeGnome,
I call it using GOOGLE well.
Yes, but nobody can predict the outcome.
//We can rest assured that it will go on until it doesn't.//
re: Seattle Bank
"The agreement with the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. and the state Department of Financial Institutions also "formalizes most of the changes management already has in place to ensure prudent financial management in this economy," said President and CEO Ellen Sas in a prepared statement.
The bank's parent company, Seattle Financial Group, signed a similar agreement with its regulator, the Office of Thrift Supervision."
What is wrong with this picture? FDIC, DFI, and OTS all regulating different parts of the same organization? Nuts.
"THAT, is what RICO is for......"
I wast thinking the same thing. Seizing assets might put some real fear out there. But you'd also need to encourage prosecuters to be measured by $$$ seized and not just conviction rate.
Lucifer (profile) wrote on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 5:47 pm
Bingo! Too much trust and lack of accountability.
//But it does seem like we've taken the overspecialization a bit too far. //
Don't forget interdependence of an ever-more complex and interconnected system that no one of us can fully understand.
Ever done a large coding project that ended up monolithic, or inherited a badly-designed one? The butterfly flapping its wings causing a storm in Africa isn't just a metaphor
Lucifer (profile) wrote on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 5:49 pm
Yes, but nobody can predict the outcome.
//We can rest assured that it will go on until it doesn't.//
Nope... but my oh my, how they try and try!
Alright. Which of you wiseacres put default in the glossary ? Very funny.
More on the non-BFF today: no PBGC actions this week, no NCUA actions on credit unions either. Could be a large nothingburger today.
Lucifer asks "Why should existence have a purpose?"
Why not? Existence is going to be there either way. But some ways are more interesting. So I'd say, existence had no purpose until consciousness was there to want to make it more interesting.
See y'all later, metaphorically speaking.
Obama’s Jobless Safety Net Torn by Rebecca Alvarez (Update1)
Obama’s Jobless Safety Net Torn by Rebecca Alvarez (Update1) - Bloomberg.com
By Rich Miller
July 10 (Bloomberg) -- Rebecca Alvarez says she’s “barely hanging on.” Without a job for seven months, the 48-year-old computer- network administrator said she’s stopped dining out, cut back cable-television services and put off paying a photography class bill from her 14-year-old son’s school in Monrovia, California. She is among more than 4 million Americans who have been looking for work for more than 26 weeks, representing 29 percent of the unemployed, the most since records began in 1948.
..........As many as 650,000 workers may exhaust even their extended benefits within three months, said Maurice Emsellem, policy co- director for the National Employment Law Project, a nonprofit advocacy group headquartered in New York. That means Obama may need to aim directly at reducing joblessness, said Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody’s Economy.com in West Chester, Pennsylvania. Among options: enhanced job training, tax credits for businesses that take on new employees or a temporary cut in payroll taxes. The U.S. traditionally hasn’t had to deal with long-term joblessness. During the last 30 years, Americans who were thrown out of work took an average 15.8 weeks to find new positions. In June, the average duration of unemployment was 24.5 weeks, the longest since records began in 1948. The number of people collecting unemployment benefits reached a record 6.88 million in the week ended June 27......
I believe that's Eric, my half-a-bank.
@Credit enema is coming
Do you ever get any Patek Phillip Calatravas? If so how well are they currently selling?
TIA
"
HomeGnome (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 6:46 pm
Cinco,
Did you already get your goats?
How much did they cost you?"
Yup; I got 'em home now. A "grade" milk-able doe, i.e. a doe without papers should start around $200-250. Mine is registered and ran about $350. A wether, or castrated male runs between $50-100. Bucks are less than does, but really good bloodlines of either can run you into the thousands. You need a companion for a goat, so I got a wether. I'll keep him until my doe has kids, and we'll see after that.
You'll want to investigate goats before you buy, assuming that this is why you're asking, because you'll want to know about diseases like CL and CAE, and other issues pertinent to keeping them. I got dwarfs due to the limited amount of grazing I can provide for them.
Good luck-
It makes sense to be in such a fungible thing as good and jewels, it's the other crap like guitars and whatnot that make me scratch my head. Is it a sympathy thing or do they even bother with eBay for price discovery?
S&P 500 Short Sales Hit 2 1/2-Month High Amid Health-Care Bets - Bloomberg.com
S&P 500 Short Sales Hit 2 1/2-Month High Amid Health-Care Bets
Much more of this and Uncle Ben is gonna come back in and make these guys scream again.
Nope.. Complex systems can be made such that they are easy to troubleshoot, but people do not like systems that they cannot abuse.
//Don't forget interdependence of an ever-more complex and interconnected system that no one of us can fully understand.//
Never had one come in we are located in tidewater virginia I'll ask around next week at the NPa
Nice work, Cinco.
I want pekin ducks though.
I do appreciate the information as I enjoy Cabrito from time to time...
"
ac (profile) wrote on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 6:47 pm
The irony of course is that the consumer is the one thing that hasn't been recovering."
Can't they just program that into the Matrix?
Reports of my departure are greatly exaggerated!
BTW, the trouble with watches in pawn shops is that no one needs watches anymore. You can get the time from your cell phone -- without looking like you're trying to tell someone you've lost interest in what he's saying. And there are plenty of other high-value bling items.
Credit enema is coming ,
Thanks. Always been in love with them, amazing engineering and history. But I gather Patek makes it very hard to buy/sell them versus Rolex etc.. Hard to transfer the name on the title you get.
Wisdom Speaker,
Precisely, but people should understand that it is their mind, and not some external agency, that gives their existence meaning.
HomeGnome - how old are you... I just saw a RedMan video.... Not nearly as good as the old stuff...
East Coast, gone. Midwest, going. If any pizza's to be ordered this week, Colorado, Arizona, and California will have to step up.
I work for a mid-size Bay Area architectural firm that has been hit particularly hard by the downturn. Since January, we’ve dropped close to 60% of our employees. Most all of them very, very good employees and generally on the ball. All were told we would be bringing them back when work resumed. Of course, it’s not going to happen. At the moment, our office is 80% empty desks. Last week we found out we won a significant commission (via stimulas
to restore a well known national landmark (everyone would know it). It’s enough to keep most of the remainder of the staff employed (I think). Funny thing is that the people who run this landmark will be visiting our office shortly and we have asked former employees to come into the office and sit at their old desks to make it seem we have staff.
The point I wanted to toss in before leaving (which came to me as I stood up from the keyboard) is this:
If we start from the premise that Rob Dawg is right (and methinks he should be "Wisdom Speaker") that "The rich actively support safety nets to prevent the creation of a dissatisfaction class to forestall economic confiscation schemes and they support a progressive income tax to prevent the rise of an acquisition class that would compete with them for the cream. It's a delicate balance."
So what happens when the progressive income tax is insufficient to support the safety net? Is there a Plan C to prevent the economic confiscation schemes? Do the wealthy start tossing out a few of their own to appease the wolves chasing the wagon? Do we get the clawbacks and RICO prosecutions after all?
You could pray for an earthquake.
//I work for a mid-size Bay Area architectural firm that has been hit particularly hard by the downturn. //
Thirty Eight.
For my money, Sativa (Haze) is the best...
Ever looked at the pre-reagan era tax code?
//So what happens when the progressive income tax is insufficient to support the safety net?//
"Do we get the clawbacks and RICO prosecutions after all? "
Maybe what you get is what happens in China. Someone high up who happened to be protected by someone even higher up (who lost a political battle) gets thrown to the wolves and gets a bullet to the head or a very long prison term.
metabear - I use to work for R&S.... Same story but they are holding on to a 'rebound' or 'return to 2007-8' harder than you guys seem to be.... its fugly and no one wants to admit it... They did just win a 750k parking lot tho... (ouch)
to come into the office and sit at their old desks to make it seem we have staff.
With or without pay?
"The U.S. traditionally hasn’t had to deal with long-term joblessness. During the last 30 years, Americans who were thrown out of work took an average 15.8 weeks to find new positions. In June, the average duration of unemployment was 24.5 weeks, the longest since records began in 1948."
Funny thing is this is showing up in mortgage delinquency data as well. The % of loans in the 30-59 day bucket is actually declining, as we run out of borrowers to go delinquent. But 60+ dqs just keep climbing, aided of course by the moratoriums.
Delinquency is becoming a roach motel - you can enter but not leave. Of course the incentives to enter and stay in default to get access to programs doesn't help either.
"Funny thing is that the people who run this landmark will be visiting our office shortly and we have asked former employees to come into the office and sit at their old desks to make it seem we have staff."
Talk about feeding on the hope of the disadvantaged. They should all be paid for the charade.
My wife runs a knitting group, takes part in two others, and a new knitter just showed up who attends all three. Just laid off by an architectural firm. She has lots of time to knit now.
"
Wisdom Speaker (homepage, profile) wrote on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 6:59 pm
The point I wanted to toss in before leaving (which came to me as I stood up from the keyboard) is this:
If we start from the premise that Rob Dawg is right .......
So what happens when the progressive income tax is insufficient to support the safety net? Is there a Plan C to prevent the economic confiscation schemes? Do the wealthy start tossing out a few of their own to appease the wolves chasing the wagon? Do we get the clawbacks and RICO prosecutions after all?"
Not before what's left of our 201k is appropriated for the purpose, further promoting the agenda of the wealthy.....
"The irony of course is that the consumer is the one thing that hasn't been recovering.""
The irony of course is that an economist would find that ironic.
@metabear: lots of companies are hiring odd-job part-time workers to sit at desks, look busy, and appear like going concerns at moments of inspection. It's the next growth industry!
@Lucifer "Precisely, but people should understand that it is their mind, and not some external agency, that gives their existence meaning." -- trouble is, most people would rather be brainwashed than think, so their search for meaning is abdicated and their minds get harnessed by whatever social matrix sweeps them up. And I use matrix in many senses!
Also, even the pre-Reagan tax code might not be sufficient. The bottom of the pyramid is a lot bigger than the middle, and the Eiffel-shaped long top isn't chipping in (yet).
volker the viking (profile) wrote on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 3:47 pm
anybody can be anybody on line, nothing is real, it's all emulation
The internet is the great solipsistic experiment
YouTube - How to Roll a Blunt by Redman: A Hard Times Special Presentation
What can I say!
California, on the brink, sends IOUs to alcoholics
California, on the brink, sends IOUs to alcoholics - Full Comment
Posted: July 09, 2009, 2:30 PM by Araminta Wordsworth
“We don’t have the money to pay our bills because the Legislature has decided that it’s more important to protect their special interests rather than protect the taxpayers,” Arnold Schwarzenegger, the state’s governor, said last week. Cancer patients, court-appointed lawyers and alcoholics in treatment programs have joined taxpayers owed rebates as the hapless recipients of these notes. About US$100-million worth have been issued since the state cranked up the presses last week. Sacramento says it will print up to US$3-billion “worth” and continue issuing them until a budget deal is struck.
"
1 currency now -yogi (profile) wrote on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 7:03 pm
"The irony of course is that the consumer is the one thing that hasn't been recovering.""
The irony of course is that an economist would find that ironic."
Or the irony is that this needs to be pointed out in the blogosphere
"
volker the viking (profile) wrote on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 3:47 pm
anybody can be anybody on line, nothing is real, it's all emulation
The internet is the great solipsistic experiment"
Silence! Or I'll call my army of robot slaves down upon you!
So what happens when the progressive income tax is insufficient to support the safety net?
The safety net is supported in large measure by the payroll tax. Payroll tax limits should be abolished.
"I work for a mid-size Bay Area architectural firm that has been hit particularly hard by the downturn. Since January, we’ve dropped close to 60% of our employees."
This doesn't jibe with that Architectural billings index that gets posted here. It shows billings are up from the lows. Are you not seeing that? Who do you think is getting the business, bigger firms?
I do wonder who is hiring those architects, I don't see what planning is going on.
and in other news, your IOUs are good at Citi for another week.
Seriously tinfoil but I see our 401k and other such "retirement" money getting serious new restrictions on use. It could even get to the point where it all gets rolled into a collective government administrated retirement fund. And I'm not alone in sensing this. Contributions are down way more than just the economy would suggest.
Nope, the numbers and ratios are like the late 1920s..
//The bottom of the pyramid is a lot bigger than the middle//
Speaking of SF, Bay Area. I dropped into the Rincon Center food-hall for lunch yesterday. Hadn't been in there for a few months. One whole length of restaurants is shuttered down. Looks like a good 1/3 of all the restaurants in there have shut down. Right in the middle of the financial district.
Bank Failure!!! Thermopolis WY
FDIC: Failed Bank Information - Bank Closing Information for Bank of Wyoming, Thermopolis, WY
FDIC: Press Releases - PR-122-2009 7/10/2009
$70 million assets.
If they are real, the easter bunny and tooth fairy are also real.
//Seriously tinfoil but I see our 401k and other such "retirement" money getting serious new restrictions on use.//
Hat Tip Wisdom Speaker!
"Having an anthropologist on staff here at the commentariat would be valuable for perspective. Looking at the 4.6 billion years the planet has careened around the sun and the paltry 200,000 years that some form of humanity has wandered the plains you realize the insignificance of our existence. The earth is the constant followed closely by DNA. DNA doesn't care what shape it wears only that it continues. The damage we've done to our environment and the continued attitude of being above all other forms of DNA expression will lead to our form of DNA reaching a dead end. Species end constantly, we can as well. The Earth will continue with some form of life."
Yep.
"We all are on the same lifeboat and the economy is one of the smaller leaks I worry about most days."
Me too, most days, but then so far we're not hurting, which kind of proves the point. If we were hurting more we'd be looking around at the other people in the lifeboat.
West Sac_grrrl: The internet is the first clumsy groping of humanity attempting to become connected. It has evolved from where it was to where it is. The process continues. Someday, and that day cannot be known, will happen suddenly and without warning, the transition will become a transmogrification. From that place and point, the capacity and content of what we call the internet will blast toward the event horizon, or rather the event horizon will loom ever more rapidly close.
prolly be pigged
Funny the ad on that page is for a Quiznos Sub!
Who's got the munchies?
So there I was, about to go get some real life stuff done, and I said to myself "Wow, CR is really going to regret promising no more posts until there's a bank failulre", so I decided to hit refresh on the FDIC, and there it was.
Unfortunately now I have to digest a large helping of crow regarding post-holiday Fridays. Another backtested strategy invalidated... Good thing no money on the line...
A hot city in WY.
//Bank Failure!!! Thermopolis WY//
Bingo 1.5. I can sleep now pre-pig. Shabbat shalom.
"Silence! Or I'll call my army of robot slaves down upon you!"
Do they do windows? We could use some of those.
Bank of Wyoming fails, only $70M
failure is failure but depositing a smaller shitpile into another is not a failure. Nevertheless it's what we classify as failure.
Failure=FDIC payouts..........IMO
Ciao
MS
"Speaking of SF, Bay Area. I dropped into the Rincon Center food-hall for lunch yesterday. Hadn't been in there for a few months. One whole length of restaurants is shuttered down."
Is that Chinese place still there? Forget the name...It was good.
Old money knows that a safety net is what keeps them from hanging at the end of a rope, while nuveau riche are uber libertarian and spendthrift so they're screwed anyways. Old money knows not to try and chase yield, to leave money on the table and be cheap as all getout.
I grew up a middle class son of depression babies and fell into money, my credit rating is awful because if I can't pay cash for it I don't want it.
I live for the day when GS and its well connected big boys/girls will have to answer to the people!
Unfortunately now I have to digest a large helping of crow regarding post-holiday Fridays. Another backtested strategy invalidated...
Not so sure about that. That WY bank looks to be the size of 0.7 of a normal bank.
Contributions are down because one of the first employee benefits on the chopping block is company matching. Why contribute without matching?
BFF Poll:
MS is out
Pig pen and Speed Racer have 1.
Yogi has the self proclaimed 1.5 bankfailures...
pavel.chichikov (homepage, profile) wrote on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 6:09 pm
"We all are on the same lifeboat and the economy is one of the smaller leaks I worry about most days."
Me too, most days, but then so far we're not hurting, which kind of proves the point. If we were hurting more we'd be looking around at the other people in the lifeboat.
With growling stomachs. It's surprising just how far the survival instincts go...
we're not done yet, CA is a mighty big state with lots of IOU's
1 or 2 in AZ, a couple in OR, couple more in WA, four in CA, you get yer Double Digit Doozy
have to wait at least til 9pm edt.
Derivative Debate: Financial Nymphomania, Kama Sutra?
Video - CNBC.com
"Is that Chinese place still there? Forget the name...It was good."
Yeah they're still there. Still appear to be doing decent take-away business. If you're in that area try the little Italian place outside across the street at the corner near the Starbucks. Decent food at a very good price for that area. $10 or so for a full meal.
The BFF game isn't over yet...
looks like the midwest crew took the A Train west.
Cancer patients, court-appointed lawyers and alcoholics in treatment programs have joined taxpayers owed rebates as the hapless recipients of these notes [California IOUs].
I like the one about court-appointed lawyers, as in "if you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be appointed for you."
I thought the 13th Amendment applied to lawyers as well as to other slaves, but I guess not. They can be made to work for free. Wonder how long that one will last?
It starts with you taking action. I'm not opposed to selective violence against people who use political capture for personal gain. How well protected are the big wheels at these places?
//This doesn't jibe with that Architectural billings index that gets posted here. It shows billings are up from the lows. Are you not seeing that? Who do you think is getting the business, bigger firms? //
well for one, the billing index is national. sf is getting hit hard at the moment. that said, we weren't particularly well placed when the downturn hit and the fact we have 3 million bucks owed us by old clients who have stopped paying.
"Wisdom Speaker (homepage, profile) wrote on Fri, 7/10/2009 - 7:09 pm
Unfortunately now I have to digest a large helping of crow regarding post-holiday Fridays...."
I hear it's not too bad with salt.......
@"Contributions are down way more than just the economy would suggest."
Of course, that might be correlated with the year-over-year returns on the funds available in the 401(k)s:
"Damn, every single fund in here is down this year, except for the Money Market that's paying no interest now!"
The other one might be:
"Damn, I need to pay off all my credit cards now because no one is letting me borrow"
and then:
"Damn, if we lose a job (and/or lose the house), we're gonna need more cash."
and then there's also the consideration that the 401k tax exemption will be more valuable next year after the Dems raise taxes on the "rich" who have no significant assets anymore but are still productively employed.
"Payroll tax limits should be abolished."
Half-right. The payroll taxes should be abolished and the revenue replaced by a bump in the progressive income tax and/or cap gains. Plus we need pay/go back.
Blackhalo,
That'll work, too.
I can't get on the next up thread!!
Yeah, I had a seller sign a 15k note. (I didn't represent him) Hell will freeze over
before one cent of that note gets paid.