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Thus, Legacy Securities PPIP allows the Treasury to partner with leading investment management firms in a way that increases the flow of private capital into these markets while maintaining equity "upside" for US taxpayers.
Yes, folks, the words "taxpayer" and "upside" in the same sentence.
Pass the Hopium, please.
more money printing, never to be extracted.
"The Legacy Securities Program ..."
~~~~
Is this double speak or triple speak ?
This is a sign that equities are about to crash. They're expecting bank shares to be low enough in the near future that recapitalizing them will be impossible by selling their shares on the open market. Thus, the crack PPIPE.
notable: PIMCO withdrew their PPIP application last month.
The Legacy Securities program is designed to support market functioning and facilitate price discovery in the asset-backed securities markets...
...because we aren't happy with the results we've been getting without intervention in those markets.
This is one of those rare times I get mad. Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining. The P-PIP is designed specifically to avoid price discovery.
"legacy securities": tested so well with the focus group
reminded every one of sitting in the private vault at the bank clipping coupons on the Standard Oil bearer bonds . . .
Weren't we promised "upside" from the TARP warrants?
Whatever happened to that?
I'm sure Goldman will dump small positions that will trigger massive write downs at other banks ...
It's what they do ...
I was talking to a merchant this week who hates AmEx because they're 6% compared to the usual 3%.
I have a rule I follow. When buying gas, from chain stores with mostly made in china stock, I use the card. When buying from small local shops, I use cash.
Give the local mom and pops the little advantage and stick the corporate greedheads with the 3% charge from the other corporate greedheads.
If a bank can sell a pooburger for 40 cents, but has it on its books as an 80 cent pooburger, why would they sell it and realize a loss?
When a bear chits in the woods you need to be careful not to step in the legacies.
cinco-x wrote (pre-pig):
Isn't the general feeling that unemployment peaks AFTER the recovery begins? As such, shouldn't expect unemployment to peak until 2111.
That is conventional view using U3. I was talking about EMRATIO bottoming in June 2010, what I consider a better measure of employment than U3 at this point. During a recession caused by financial crisis, I don't think we will see much recovery until employment starts increasing.
Of course, these are just wild guesses on my part. I have no econometric models with numbers to plug in and predict the future, as if that would be accurate.
Did they ever solve that bank buying its own assets through the PPIP problem ?
PPIP is going to cost an armacy and a legacy.
I saw an interview on CNBC a couple of days ago with a man whose company was planning to be a buyer under the PPIP program.
He said that government guarantees would add 10-15 percentage points to the purchase price of the legacy assets.
super siv was kinda cool, sort of sounded like a drain cleaner
also notable: the PPIP will target CMBS and non-agency RMBS issued before 2009 and with an INITIAL rating of AAA.
I thought this was DOA. I guess not.
mmckinl (profile) wrote on Wed, 7/8/2009 - 4:09 pm
Did they ever solve that bank buying its own assets through the PPIP problem ?
I'm sure they'll appoint a Czar and empower him with the authority create a committee full of GS alumnus to study that issue at a minor expense to taxpayers.
Hahahahahah, Coinz
Did they ever solve that bank buying its own assets through the PPIP problem ?
I'm sure they did. It will be encouraged.
Honestly, this is just so depressing.
I'm interested in how this all works out. Many people blindly say "well the government can't fix this".
But then I see the pure idiocy of the market. Many of the plans thus far have failed big time (super-SIV anyone?). however, is the govt slowly winning the war of propaganda?
They keep calling these toxic liabilities "legacy assets". do it enough, and will the market believe?
How many more record profit months does Goldman have to have before people start jumping in to "be like Mike"????
Not that I think this will work (I don't) I just wonder how deep this insidious propaganda seeps...
before you answer too quickly, people honestly thought that 40:1 leverage was a "good" thing, and that you should "liberate" the equity in your home so it isn't "sitting dead" in your house.
My thoughts are obviously more about mob psychology as opposed to efficient market theory.
lawyerliz
I thought this was DOA. I guess not.
~~~~
End of the quarter manipulation is now over ...
They need news to counter the stock market tanking ... again ...
The 'Whipsaw' is so obvious is has to be embarrassing for them ...
Apparently it's going to take an extreme amount of gov't leverage to remove all the fraud from the system.
I can't wait to reap my leveraged share of wall street's toxic asset losses.
What a sham.
Why would the stock market need to down? Now that automatic trading is the majority, can't the government just keep printing money, and let automatic trading keep pushing stocks up? P/E ratio? that's so old school
YTL, i really don't understand how you come to the conclusion that free markets have anything whatsoever to so with this.
let's say it was joe's bank instead of the federal reserve in big letters at the top of the money. let's say that joe's bank had a totally opaque pile of investments to the tune of a big multiple of the entire national cash circulating, and could make purchases of all kinds, especially of derivatives, which could swing any number of markets, at will.
wouldn't you suspect joe's bank of making the environment not quite that of a "free market"?
But stocks didn't tank today, they "rebounded"
Under this program, Treasury will invest up to $30 billion of equity and debt in PPIFs established with private sector fund managers and private investors for the purpose of purchasing legacy securities.
I think this means that Treasury will invest up to $30 billion of debt and debt in debt established with debt and debt for the purpose of purchasing debt.
Thus, Legacy Securities PPIP allows the Treasury to partner with leading investment management firms in a way that increases the flow of private capital into these markets while maintaining equity "upside" for US taxpayers.
In my business when one of the big boyz says they'd like to partner with you it usually means somebody ends up bent over holding their ankles - and that somebody is never the big boyz.
For PPIP my guess is it will be the taxpayer.
Scrooge McDuck
Why would the stock market need to down? Now that automatic trading is the majority, can't the government just keep printing money, and let automatic trading keep pushing stocks up?
~~~~~
The rising market was to trap investors once again ...
They don't make enough money treading water ...
They'll let it fall then begin the mini bubble all over again ... whipsaw ...
BNN (Business News Network) : Stories
TD to become a primary dealer for US Treasury. RBC already became one. That's 2 Canadian banks now.
Man Lucifer must be pissing in his wheaties about now.
I remember wall street trying to the rename the bailouts as "rescues". Rescue has a much more heroic CONotation.
wow, another bank bailout passing us by... i am so surprised.
broken record... eating the cake as we all are.
Mook +10 for being first and pulling the stupidest quote out fastest.
Ye gawds, there will be no upside for the taxpayer- because the Fed is on the hook, not the taxpayer.
What a load of hoey.
Yet another day, another bailout, another slide in the markets contained by a stick save.
We need to just start nationalizing seriously underwater mortgages and spreading the losses between the owners of the houses and mortgages, the government, and the people.
Anything else is sheer dissembling and drivel.
Someday this war's gonna end...
@mmckinl
I know, I was being sarcastic. (sorry for the bad sarcasm
)
Jeebus. I thought we were going to roll down hill to 7900. Bummer.
Well, if you're bored. I have more of my story on life after all this gets done crashing...
sample
Some countries, like Japan for instance, that when you approach them by sea, well, you know about 400 nautical miles out that you are getting close. How? Because the amount of trash in the water steadily increases. It was the same thing with approaching the McKinley farmhouse. Not that they were unusual in that. It was pretty common in this part of the world I was to find out. Everybody over the past few decades had consumed a lot of stuff. On a farm, a lot of that stuff was big. Too big to stuff in a trash can. You put it in your own dump or left it where it had died.
site: American Apocalypse
Scrooge McDuck
Probably not you ... I'm so angry I could spit teeth ...
These mfs are stealing in the light of day every day 24/7
and the PTB just sit there ...
So when does Alcoa Aluminum become
AANB
Alcoa Aluminum National Bank.
If we have another big name company go Bankrupt in this Country I just might start getting nervous.
"must be secured directly by the actual mortgage loans, leases, or other assets ("Eligible Assets")."
meaning no synthetics, no tranched crap? how much of the toxics on the zombies books does this really address?
while maintaining equity "upside" for US taxpayers
I don't think I've ever had a conversation where "upside" was mentionned but not "downside".
The mummies curse upon all of them.
Whenever you see a press release talk about "upside", that means someone is going to take it in the "backside".
Remember last year when Lenny Dykstra was on tv talking about what a hot options trader he was? Well, looks like he should have had some portfolio insurance... $31 million underwater and bk...
The Associated Press
Wonder who the author is of this s##t and if he actually got his GED. The mummies don't have to put a curse, the devil is in the details.
I think PPIP is undergoing refinements in order to save Treas from another embarrassment, and also that they'd like to get something out in front of the second mortgage default wave, that is to say, they see it cresting just as we do. Do I recall the taxpayer was originally placed in a first loss position?
"I don't think I've ever had a conversation where "upside" was mentionned but not "downside". "
I have. But that was more like 'you're gonna get one upside your head'. My father and wife come to mind when I think of that phrase.
State budget problems:
Yahoo! 404 - Page Not Found
Do I recall the taxpayer was originally placed in a first loss position?
A polite way of describing it.
Mish :
States Use Stimulus Money for Short-Term Needs
The Government Accountability Office, finds that the $787 billion stimulus package is being used to "cushion" state budgets, prevent teacher layoffs, make more Medicaid payments and head off other fiscal problems.
Gee, who woulda thunk?
FOXNews.com - States Using Stimulus Money for Short-Term Needs, Audit Shows
Even with the fungible ARRA Funds some states are in deep crap ...
@mmckinl
Do what I do. Move all your wealth out of US system. Consider the social security/medicare payments you paid uncollectible, and move on. Then you can watch the ongoing plane crash with a tinge of bewilderment and excitement.
yearning
just remember legacy means something handed down from the past or from a predecessor. it really fits those things will be with us forever. of course they could have called it"heritage assets"
"We need to just start nationalizing seriously underwater mortgages and spreading the losses between the owners of the houses and mortgages, the government, and the people."
But that would involve helping actual people, as opposed to banks. /snark off
Note that this (PPIP) is yet one more program that does absolutely nothing to address the underlying problems in the economy.
Well, let's lever up again, Hair of the Dog as it were.
That first tranche of money wasn't ever goign to be big enough to fill the holes.
After the first round of tax increases, we will have yet another tranche of state budget filler money, but first some politics needs to be done to some Republicans who think we can shrink government.
They didn't get the message that we are all Keynesians now.
Someday this war's gonna end...
The federal government gets bigger to maintain the bloat of state/local governments and in the broad, sunlit uplands of pre-recovery we will call this the "economy."
Somebody asked me a question about Minn tenant law with respect to mtg foreclosure.
I read that. I think it's in favor of tenants.
If you really want me to break my mind on it, it will be $100.
Scrooge McDuck
I'm tied in ... got kids ...wife ... friends ...
Still only lost 10 % ... muni bonds ... house another story about 40% and going lower
but in a position of strength unless the whole thing blows up ...
the upside for the taxpayer is the goodwill created by another bank bailout and the grateful looks from the bankers as they line up for another round of bonuses. how will we govern ourselves if we don't fund new cohorts of GS bankers that will run the country so selflessly in the future? these are the people that bring the freedom to the free market, right?
"That first tranche of money wasn't ever goign to be big enough to fill the holes."
~~~~
They know this ... it's all PR ... everytime they see another shit storm coming
it's more alphabet soup ...
I am confused about the mtg fraud thread. Are they saying that the fraud is continuing
and worsening to this day? I can't see how, if only because there are so few closings.
And as to helping people, I repeat it's too late except for big cramdowns. The day of small
cramdowns helping is over.
Was the Roman market in slaves a free market?
"I am confused about the mtg fraud thread. "
~~~~
What was legal and pushed 2 years ago is now illegal ...
as it was supposed to be in the first place ...
RD +10^6
Exactly - hoocoodanode it was talk opposite day!
Alright, fess up. Which of you jokers added "bearchit" to the glossary?
wow, that's got to be one of the longer glossary entries
Lots of it was legal 2 years ago, only it was really stupid.
One of my former secys called today, just got a minor nursing degree,
used to work for Big Bank doing HELOCs, hated it.
They bought a house in 2004, at a time when she was distracted 'cause their
young son was newly very sick with diabetes. It was a pick-a-pay. I think
they are a mere 90k underwater, but still, she's gonna walk!!!
"I am confused about the mtg fraud thread. Are they saying that the fraud is continuing
and worsening to this day? "
I believe it was an FBI report on 2008 activity.
2008 was a terrible year for fraud. Today it isn't as much an issue (with new issuance, of course there is still plenty in the portfolio to worry about).
ot-
green shoots = increased demand
Alcoa Revenue
2Q09-4.2B 2Q08-7.2B
Marketwatch Green shaman's take..
Alcoa pierces the fog of uncertainty MarketWatch First Take - MarketWatch
Get a Load of THIS!
Financial Alchemy at Morgan Stanley: Greywolf A3 CDOs now Aaa bonds
Submitted by Edward Harrison of Credit Writedowns.
The Online Merriam-Webster Dictionary describes alchemy as “a power or process of transforming something common into something special” or “aiming to achieve the transmutation of the base metals into gold.” Well, it seems Morgan Stanley is engaging in some financial alchemy because it is about to trade near-junk rated paper for Aaa gold-standard bonds (hat tip Max Keiser and Stacy Herbert).
Morgan Stanley plans to repackage a downgraded collateralized debt obligation backed by leveraged loans into new securities with AAA ratings in the first transaction of its kind, said two people familiar with the sale.
Morgan Stanley is selling $87.1 million of securities that it expects to receive top AAA ratings and $42.9 million of notes graded Baa2, the second-lowest investment grade by Moody’s Investors Service, according to marketing documents obtained by Bloomberg News. The bonds were created from Greywolf CLO I Ltd., a CDO arranged in January 2007 by Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and managed by Greywolf Capital Management LP, an investment firm based in Purchase, New York.
Financial Alchemy at Morgan Stanley: Greywolf A3 CDOs now Aaa bonds « naked capitalism
a must read ...
Re Dykstra... had a subscription to RM for a couple of years in there (because in the early days of Mad Money, you could sometimes game from the site what Cramer was going to shill that night).
Dykstra always seemed to be doing these fangs-out DItM naked call or put positions. Martingale strategy - doubling down endlessly on losing positions. He could advertise a good track record because the Martingale would grind out a bunch of little $500, $1000 wins out of $250K invested, while holding massive losers that he wasn't M2M.
My recollection is, just before he quit writing for them, he took a $375,000 loss on DItM Intel calls. I can't remember the dollar value, but I do remember at one point he had 700 DItM calls on HSY expire worthless. He also made a call to go long BAC late in 2007. I don't recall the position size, but I do remember that he took a $30K loss (about 1/8th of his total account) in one day.
Comrade Coinz. Two memorable beauties, your Armacy and legacy and your upside and back side.. I am impressed by your wit.
It is more of a wikipedia length--and you know CA has a spending problem when Helicopter Ben's dollars are scarce in comparison.
@nincompoop,
Thanks. I am here to serve. Still, Juvenal Delinquent far surpasses my amateur hour efforts.
So, is there doom on the streets in Cali yet, now that Michael Jackson is dead and buried.
But wait. . .he's not buried yet, is he?
Mentioning squirrel without including a recipe really shouldn't be allowed in the glossary. Ken, any way you could enforce that?
"Isn't the general feeling that unemployment peaks AFTER the recovery begins? As such, shouldn't expect unemployment to peak until 2111.
That is conventional view using U3. I was talking about EMRATIO bottoming in June 2010, what I consider a better measure of employment than U3 at this point. During a recession caused by financial crisis, I don't think we will see much recovery until employment starts increasing."
Fantastic! Another green shoot
Seriously though, thanks for the clarification. Someday this depression is gonna end (with apologies to CAM)
MJ was apparently buried without his brain -
Michael Jackson Buried Without His Brain
We are so screwed if he comes back as a zombie. My only saving grace might be that I'm a little too old for his tastes.
i hear recipes are traded on the secret board
If unemployment was 25% during the depression and urban mortgages were running 50% total in arrears..
So we shout be at around 20% plus maybe of all mortgages - except for that pesky 2 income trap
did MJ bleach his DNA, as well as his skin?
"
Comrade Coinz (homepage, profile) wrote on Wed, 7/8/2009 - 5:34 pm
Whenever you see a press release talk about "upside", that means someone is going to take it in the "backside"."
Ladies and gentlemen; this man is on FIRE today!
Mycarpool rider from West VA said squirrel brains fried in butter were really good.
what are they going to do with his brain smoke it?
did MJ bleach his DNA, as well as his skin?
He had blue eyed soul
what are they going to do with his brain smoke it?
Sell the essence as aftershave for Priests....
It reminds me of the commercial with a guy web-surfing so fast that he runs out of interwebs.
" MLM (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Wed, 7/8/2009 - 5:59 pm
Mentioning squirrel without including a recipe really shouldn't be allowed in the glossary. Ken, any way you could enforce that?"
Can't you just add one?
In the ad for the MJ Aftershave
It will make your skin as smooth as a young boys behind...
" nova (homepage, profile) wrote on Wed, 7/8/2009 - 6:03 pm
Mycarpool rider from West VA said squirrel brains fried in butter were really good."
Seems like it would take a lot of squirrels to fill up you average West Virginian, unless the squirrels in WV are really big or something...
Can't you just add one?
I'm not worthy. Where the hell is CSC when we really need him?
I think frying them in butter was special treat. Like icecream but for inbreds
Micahel's Jackson's brain + Ted Williams' body.
Singing, dancing and batting .400.
I've been to West Va; the squirrels are the same size as elsewhere.
mouse over recipe
Comrade Elmer Fudd (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Wed, 7/8/2009 - 3:02 pm
i hear recipes are traded on the secret board
The 1st Annual Great Squirrely-Q Cook-off was a great success. Just watch out for the Tranches on Branches. We got suspicious when Conjure served it on GS executive dining room china.
mmckinl
dont worry those are the "heritage cdos"
In CA, squirrels are Tofu.
following a dog and pony show like this one must be careful not only what one says but also where one steps
Anything fried in butter is prolly good; not that you'll get me to try it.
There goes health care reform ...
WASHINGTON — Senate Democrats edged away Wednesday from their goal of passing ambitious health care legislation by early August amid heightening partisan controversy over tax increases and a proposed new government role in providing insurance to consumers.
"I think the ultimate goal is to have a bill by the end of this year," Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., said ...
Sorta OT: have you seen this? Unbelievable. Must be on the advice of the Enron lobbyist they hired.
Bernanke to Appear on Town-Hall-Style PBS Broadcast (Update1) - Bloomberg.com
Bernanke to Appear on Town-Hall-Style PBS Broadcast This Month
Share | Email | Print | A A A
By Scott Lanman
July 8 (Bloomberg) -- Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke will make a town-hall-style appearance on PBS television this month, taping a one-hour broadcast July 26 in Kansas City, Missouri.
" lawyerliz (profile) wrote on Wed, 7/8/2009 - 6:11 pm
Anything fried in butter is prolly good; not that you'll get me to try it."
How about if we wrapped it in bacon before frying it"
edit- kinda like redneck foie gras......
I'll eat the bacon fried in butter!!
How about if we wrapped it in bacon before frying it?
Bacon Wrapped Squirrel
Special treat - squirrel oysters:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2023/1779852207_f5b2aecca7.jpg?v=0
dibbs on the bacon tranche
Bernanke to Appear on Town-Hall-Style PBS Broadcast This Month
Is that a town hall filled with Bernanke's constituents, JPM, Citi?
Hey Dawg, any Cali contractors dragging their feet abt accepting chits?
"Rob Dawg (homepage, profile) wrote on Wed, 7/8/2009 - 6:14 pm
How about if we wrapped it in bacon before frying it?
http://www.backwoodsbound.com/zsquir32.html"
Hmmm.....don't know if I'd be willing the waste the beer, but the rest sounds good- mmmmmmm......
Controversy dogged efforts in the House, as well, when Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., said he had been assured by the administration that it was not bound by an $80 billion agreement with the pharmaceutical industry that Obama announced with fanfare at the White House last month.
~~~~
Gotta love it ... Obama is lying to the health care companies as well as the public ... only Bankstas get the love ...
Biden, Hospital Leaders Announce Pact To Help Cover Uninsured
No, I'm not gonna clink on the oyster link.
Not. . . . not. . . .not. . . .
what if we wrapped it in butter and bacon, rubbed it all over ourselves and didn't bother frying it!
U.S. Housing Market Is Cursed by Brain Freeze: John F. Wasik
U.S. Housing Market Is Cursed by Brain Freeze: John F. Wasik - Bloomberg.com
Commentary by John F. Wasik
July 8 (Bloomberg) -- If you are buying or selling a home in a market glutted with distressed properties, it’s time to change your attitude. Don’t be misled by pundits saying the bottom may be visible in this stultifying decline. The real-estate recession will continue unless a massive brain freeze thaws. Buyers are afraid of purchasing a home at the wrong price while millions of sellers are locked into unrealistic listing prices.
lawyerliz (profile) wrote on Wed, 7/8/2009 - 3:16 pm
Hey Dawg, any Cali contractors dragging their feet abt accepting chits?
I have yet to see one. Then again I travel in a circle that while they have a long relationship with the State it seems they've all managed to move their business away from that entanglement. My preferred retail nurseryman used to do a lot of Caltrans for instance but switched to specialty landscaping. The medical people are just plain old not getting paid, not chits not checks.
I have a supplemental tax claim pending. I can only hope I get my chits together soon.
volker the viking (profile) wrote on Wed, 7/8/2009 - 10:20 pm
what if we wrapped it in butter and bacon, rubbed it all over ourselves and didn't bother frying it!
Then you would be rancid--I mean "legacy"--and finally eligible for a Fed bailout.
I am confused about the mtg fraud thread. Are they saying that the fraud is continuing
and worsening to this day? I can't see how, if only because there are so few closings.
Read the last paragraph of CR's fraud post--the worst of the new scams involve ripping off troubled borrowers by pretending to offer foreclosure assistance or fraudulent "loan modifications".
Here's a crude early example of the genre:
Mortgage and Real Estate Fraud - Mortgage Fraud News - Dorean Group principles indicted
Mortgage Fraud
It's easy to take advantage of desperate people and this sort of thing is going to be a problem for a while.
The alchemists never stop trying..
Morgan Stanley Plans to Turn Downgraded Loan CDO Into AAA Bonds
Morgan Stanley Plans to Turn Downgraded Loan CDO Into AAA Bonds - Bloomberg.com
By Pierre Paulden, Caroline Salas and Sarah Mulholland
July 8 (Bloomberg) -- Morgan Stanley plans to repackage a downgraded collateralized debt obligation backed by leveraged loans into new securities with AAA ratings in the first transaction of its kind, said two people familiar with the sale. Morgan Stanley is selling $87.1 million of securities that it expects to receive top AAA ratings and $42.9 million of notes graded Baa2, the second-lowest investment grade by Moody’s Investors Service, according to marketing documents obtained by Bloomberg News. The bonds were created from Greywolf CLO I Ltd., a CDO arranged in January 2007 by Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and managed by Greywolf Capital Management LP, an investment firm based in Purchase, New York.
Finally.. they are calling it "toxic debt" not "toxic assets"
Treasury Taps Nine Managers for Toxic-Debt Program (Update2)
Treasury Taps Nine Managers for Toxic-Debt Program (Update2) - Bloomberg.com
By Rebecca Christie
July 8 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. Treasury named BlackRock Inc., Invesco Ltd. and seven other managers for the Public- Private Investment Program, in an effort to remove as much as $40 billion in troubled assets from financial institutions.
Anybody who buys into that scheme deserves what they get.
Yes, the loan mod thing is out there, and some errr, dopes, are being caught.
I've kept a couple from doing it.
according to my ticker, the last trade of BAC was 47M shares, which would be 8% of today's 570M volume.
wonder if that's goldman finally getting the computer rebooted.
"There goes health care reform ... "
Never had a chance this year. Enough people who say they want reform to the pollsters, aren't yet desperate enough to actually do anything when their senator votes with and for the industry. Or even care to find out how their senators votes.
And they have to, or nothing happens. I give it three years. By that time things should be bad enough that people do start paying closer attention, and things get ugly. No major change in American society without ugly. Never has been.
I mean, even the "public option" is something of a shuck. Oh, it's great stuff -- if you can afford even that.
RE: Lenny Dykstra BK...
It's a pretty good sign of a historic bubble when former-pro athletes are managing funds.
I am curious to know how the fund of ex-49er stars Rice/Montana/Barton is doing these days.
Agreed, the Doreans were awfully crude and anybody that got caught in it was probably caught by their own greed. (They did suck in people on the patriot sites though, with the "banks create money out of thin air using your signature" argument. I've seen that argument trotted out on this board now and again.)
But I can easily imagine someone innocently being caught by the newer scams, where people call pretending to be from the lending bank offering a modification.
"Jeebus. I thought we were going to roll down hill to 7900."
There is always tomorrow... PPT has to have finite resources and squandering them on a continued pump job, does not seem sustainable.
"But wait. . .he's not buried yet, is he? "
Dear Glod, please no more MJ. I know it is a gold mine for the 24 hr. news guys... but enough already.
It's a pretty good sign of a historic bubble when former-pro athletes are managing funds.
That's not really fair to Roger Staubach, but I know what you mean. Although I suppose Staubach made a bad mistake when he agreed to be bought out partly in stock instead of all cash.
Where's all the $$$ made on AIG being deployed ?
"I am curious to know how the fund of ex-49er stars Rice/Montana/Barton is doing these days."
Yeah, how are Elway's dealerships doing?
Someone go out while the getting was good,I guess.
"Elway sold his dealerships to AutoNation for $82.5 million in a mostly stock deal. At the time, the shares were worth more than $30 each."
AutoNation benches Elway's name - The Denver Post
ShortCourage (profile) wrote on Wed, 7/8/2009 - 10:31 pm
RE: Lenny Dykstra BK...
It's a pretty good sign of a historic bubble when former-pro athletes are managing funds.
Wall Street experience, economic failure--I think Dykstra has the resume to be Treasury secretary or Fed chairman.
To answer my own question:
"Harris Barton and Ronnie Lott Owe People a Lot of Money"
Deuce of Davenport | Sports News, Commentary, Humor, Videos: Harris Barton and Ronnie Lott Owe People A Lot of Money
I guess I wasn't paying attention back in December...there was a lot of other stuff going on...
"And they have to, or nothing happens. I give it three years. By that time things should be bad enough that people do start paying closer attention, and things get ugly. No major change in American society without ugly."
Agreed. Until Junior's tonsillectomy becomes prohibitive, nothing momentous happens. Even so, there is still an awful lot of pork in the current plan.
I've been checking out the kunstlercast today... you guys might want to take a look. It's by John Howard Kunstler and some other dude, discussing "post oil america," hyper-localization, the return to the subsistence-town movement and stuff.
KunstlerCast
Pretty good stuff.
Not One Cent,
Absolutely, I'd choose "Nails" to be Fed Chairman any day.
BTW, I played against Dykstra in a High School All Star game, back when he was just a little guy.
What a great athlete.
Once they stop being mercantile.
Soros Says China Will Help World Economy Recover From Recession
July 8 (Bloomberg) -- Billionaire George Soros called China “a positive force” that will help drive growth as the world emerges from the current economic crisis.
"when he was just a little guy."
um, still is... kind of why he was a popular athlete. only had one season with over ten homers.
"Move all your wealth out of US system. Consider the social security/medicare payments you paid uncollectible, and move on. Then you can watch the ongoing plane crash with a tinge of bewilderment and excitement."
The next few decades are gong to be a testing time. We'll find out who we can count on in a tight spot, and who we can count on to skedaddle.
Sorry, halo.
HollywoodHack,
I mean little, as in scrawny. I seem to recall he sported a pretty muscular upper body on TV while he was in his prime. But I don't recall him being very muscular in high school.
The hub and I will prolly collect a little SS; but mostly I am happy our parents got it.
I wouldn't personally make the allegation, but i'd guess that his best year ('93) was somewhat chemically induced.
"The next few decades are gong to be a testing time. We'll find out who we can count on in a tight spot, and who we can count on to skedaddle." - Ben Bernanke and Timothy Geithner
There, fixed it for ya.
HollywoodHack,
There's no need to say it, really.
It would be a total surprise to discover any top-notch baseball player who didn't use over the past two decades. It's sad, but they are all going to be painted with the same brush. How can you believe a single one of them when it's so obvious that the majority of them lied all along.
(End of off-topic diversion, I promise).
I am slow, Carry over from previous thread:
I got rid of all my credit cards...I keep only a debit/Visa card....I must ask...is the percentage increase in your bill (2-3%) costing you more than paying cash?
Now, when I make a purchase (except on the internet), I ask the seller what is the price if I pay cash, as opposed to the price offered...
Its amazing, they actually offer a lower price...
I understand the convenience issue and the absolute need for a credit card for hotel, car and air flight, however, you might want to start asking the price differential if you pay in cash, check or debit card...
Just a thought for those trying to save money...
So has anyone answered the question, which appears to be asked and not answered
every month--is the pay down in debt because I paid down my credit cards, or because
Susie Somebody defaulted on her credit, and the lender wrote the debt down? Or both,
and what proportion?
"(End of off-topic diversion, I promise). "
is it off-topic? substituting MEW for income - leverage for investment ideas - low rates for genuinely free-market reforms...
the present economic failure is a moral failure (and generational failure), and the baseball roids crisis is part of that.
lost-confused:
often, the cash price removes the Uncle Sam surcharge. also, using a debit card for a rental car can be a massive pain in the butt. sometimes, it's an extra security deposit; other times, they want to run a credit check.
Our failure was in continuing to watch pro sports where it was obvious that
they were all using. Well, not me, I never had much interest. Is it true for golf, too?
They don't seem to be artificially bulked up. The hub is now into golf and I occasionally
look up from my book to see a rerun of a great put.
I am waiting for someone to start selling CDSs on california IOUs.
ppk--peee yuuuu on Ca CDS IOUs.
I thought that we could redeem our BearChits by exchanging them at ChitiBank for dancing lessons?
I want pretzels. Toodle-ooo, nitey-nite, chitty chitty bang bang and all that.
HollywoodHack (homepage, profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Wed, 7/8/2009 - 6:00 pm
"(End of off-topic diversion, I promise). "
is it off-topic? substituting MEW for income - leverage for investment ideas - low rates for genuinely free-market reforms...
the present economic failure is a moral failure (and generational failure), and the baseball roids crisis is part of that.
Deeper than that. It is simple game theory and evolutionary arms races run amok. This is in fact what can be observed to happen at the highest levels of ability in any discipline, period. The differentiating characteristics at that tier are so miniscule relative to one another, and so large relative to the population at large, that absolutely anything which can convey a competitive edge makes a significant difference in performance. It is all about the "elite of the elite". The moral hazard begins when one of the "elite" begins doping, as it conveys enough advantage that he or she begins to dominate the performance of the others. At first the others resist but eventually the technology forces capitulation. In time there are enough participants that an implicit conspiracy is formed around the source of their competitive advantage, as they are all getting very rich relative to the non-participants. Eventually even being a viable part of that elite group requires cheating. And the rewards are so excessive and disproportionate that complicity swells the ranks. Repeat enough, and it can become a reality of cultural indoctrination at certain levels. By the time the source of advantage becomes publicly disclosed, some group has already discovered a better and still undisclosed source of advantage so the prior one is "allowed" to leak out in an effort to further limit competition. It is not so much a cultural problem as an inherent limitation of an incentive-based system.
These same dynamics apply to any human enterprise, whether it is sports teams, college affiliations, countries, investment banks or mortgage lenders
Also, don't fall for that green shoots BS cause they ain't real. No recovery.
this co called 'recovery' is artifical
hat tip to: Interesting Finance & Economic articles
for the good articles
The P-PIP is designed specifically to avoid price discovery. - RD