No news here. They've surely covered their bets, along with raising rates and fees to make up fo the losses, and if all else fails, are backstopped by the taxpayer.
I often wondered how many people were managing the credit card surf....i know pretty much every financially literate person I knew with balances would just transfer them back and forth between cards as they offered 0%. Then the balance transfer with no fee, became tougher, and you really had to work. And then, maybe a year ago, it was nearly impossible to do it without incurring a 3% fee. Now, IM thinking this game is a losing proposition.
For the first time in years I received a credit card solicitation that contained the actual card rather than a fake. I guess the CC company wouldn't want to delay my running up unpayable debts for the time it takes to send the card through the mail.
Whenever I get a cc solicitation I shred the form with my name on it, stuff some of the marketing material in the postage paid envelope, and send it back to them. My own small way of sticking it to the banksters, and one that I heartily encourage others to adopt.
"Whenever I get a cc solicitation I shred the form with my name on it, stuff some of the marketing material in the postage paid envelope, and send it back to them. My own small way of sticking it to the banksters, and one that I heartily encourage others to adopt."
thanks for the idea, i will start doing that myself.
Manufacturing AND construction. A lot of relatively uneducated people (and probably financially very uneducated) running up bills on the CCs that they could never hope to pay off in good times. And what do you know...the good times were but an illusion.
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- Top U.S. monetary-policy makers at the Federal Reserve breathed a big sigh of relief: The second coming of the Great Depression has been averted.
FEDs did not see recession comming last year, and now they are celebrating that they avoided depression? It make me sick all of these dishonesty in out system.
I heartily recommend that anyone who hasn't yet hit the ChipIn button, do so now! Every little bit helps (I know, I pay colo fees to host a couple of sites).
It takes atleast several months before a credit card company will charge off a delinquent account. It would seem that chargeoffs would be a lagging indicator. If it's tied to employment...expect it to continue to rise as long as unemployment does plus a couple of months.
As noted above, charge off's take place 6 months after last payment. So everyone that was charged off in June quit paying in November. I don't think it's going to peak at 12% charge off rate, not with unemployment increasing.
I clicked through the link in the article and some of the posts on the consumeraffairs.com site were mind blowing.
For example
"Kay of Pottsville, PA June 23, 2009
I too recieved the notice today from Chase Credit cards regarging the increase in the minimum payment from 2% to 5%. Was told by customer service that it was due to the poor economy and was referred to their economic hardship dept. There I was told I could possibly renegiotate a lesser monthly payment but my interest would go from 3.9% to 21.99%. I was told that out of over a billion credit card holders 850,000 were effected by this change.
My monthly payment from my 4 accounts will go from 961.00/month to 2394.00/month. Needless to say I will not be able to make these payments and will end up defaulting on my accounts and probably claim bankruptcy. I have been a loyal customer for well over 15 years, never late and have paid more than the minimum many times.
Other sites says while it is immoral and unfair it is legal to do."
@JD - I'd also like to see some projections on how many of the auto parts suppliers won't survive having to eat both the C and GM BK losses. Ditto suppliers for other BK's.
Don't forget Ford:
DETROIT (Reuters) - Ford Motor Co (F.N) aims to cut the number of its parts suppliers by almost half by the end of 2009 as the only U.S. automaker to avoid bankruptcy attempts to shore up its supply base at a time of deep financial stress for the industry.
I have several CCs zero balances and a 800s score but only one with a balance.
Wonder if it's worth just defaulting and paying them off with a 1/3 offer. I mean if people are being ruthless and withholding their mortgage payment to generate cash holdings, why shouldn't CC holders get a similiar benefit just because they didn't engage in a transaction with 6% RE handshake?
"My monthly payment from my 4 accounts will go from 961.00/month to 2394.00/month. Needless to say I will not be able to make these payments and will end up defaulting on my accounts and probably claim bankruptcy."
Do the banks actually want more charge-offs?
These actions seem suicidal to me.
I have no dog in this fight because I never carry balances, but I do use CCs as purchasing cards.
I wonder what the banks think they are going to accomplish with this?
All those various industries are integral to one other industry, one that I work in; Conventions and Tourism
Credit cards pay for Flights, Hotel Rooms, Etc Etc and for the most part, when you book a room, it has to be a credit card, not a debit card.
Motels cater to travelers that are typically not flying and have lower income levels. You can't force poor people to take trips (and the Grapes of Wrath is not what I'd call a vacation.)
The situation in the hotel industry is gory and awful.
@Mike - My question about your example is - why doesn't this woman think she has a problem if she's paying nearly a thousand a month in minimum payments now? Since there was no reference to keeping a business running or anything, it sounds like another case of someone just coming back to earth from their economic future.
There must some magic number where the game goes TILT, as far as charge-offs go. If push meets shove the credit card companies go belly-up en masse, like so many beached whales, on porpoise.
hmmm what about purchasing designer items then selling them on ebay before defaulting? Or you could pay off your student loans with the CC then default. People did this with HELOCs and cash out RE sales so why not run the game on a slightly different field?
Sea Launch Co., a satellite launch services provider owned by Boeing and international partners, has filed for bankruptcy protection.
In its Chapter 11 filing, the Long Beach-based company listed assets of between $100 million and $500 million against liabilities of between $500 million and $1 billion.
quality - just perfect how the top range of possible estimates for assets just touches the bottom of potential liabilities.
Translation - we have no friggin idea what this company is worth.
actually, the paying off the student loans is brilliant since those can't be discharged by BK. Hmmm now to see if I can put this thought genie back the bottle...
why doesn't this woman think she has a problem if she's paying nearly a thousand a month in minimum payments now?
Not to make excuses, but some people put every single purchase they make on credit cards. Cable, phones, groceries, gas, utilities... that $600 a month right there for some people. Not a big deal if you pay off the balance, but some people get used to paying X dollars a month and then an extra purchase goes on a perpetual balance that adds up. Yes, it's financially reckless and I've been unsuccessful in getting some family members to see this - they merely insult me by calling me a "cheap ass" and "tightwad" even though I spend more money than they do. They simply refuse to do the math - throwing $200 a month into a savings account is stupid if you have credit card balances yet they claim to be financially competent because they are "saving $200 every month."
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. government will "very soon" launch its program to use federal funds and private capital to buy banks' toxic assets, the new overseer of the government's $700-billion bank bailout fund said on Tuesday.
Why push cardholders to default?
Because the Federal Reserve has your back?
Then when you extend credit again you can soak them on the interest rates?
Or because you need more toxic assets to purchase?
I'm with you - hence my WOW comment at the end of my post.
This action by banks is akin to pushing Humpty off the ledge. If they had people willing to bump along paying the minimum payment for 15 years!! they had a cash cow on their hands. By bumping the minimum payment percentage from 2 to 5% they not only killed the cow - they nuked it so they'll get nothing!!
The old get old
And the young get stronger
May take a week
And it may take longer
They got the guns
But we got the numbers
Gonna win, yeah
We're takin' over
Come on!
Yeah!
For the USof A
Your ballroom days are over, baby
Night is drawing near
Shadows of the evening crawl across the years
Ya walk across the floor with a flower in your hand
Trying to tell me no one understands
Trade in your hours for a handful dimes
Gonna' make it, baby, in our prime
Use your cards to start a business, use the profits to pay off student loans, then declare Non-consumer Chap 7.... (that way you walk away from debt and keep current/future income else you have to go through Chap 13 ;( .... Maybe you could flip houses... oh sorry, you missed that one...
'4 accounts will go from 961.00/month to 2394.00/month'
I'm still staggering over the idea of even having a 961 month min payment... that's more then I pay a month for rent, all utilies, car ins and half my food bill!
"Not to make excuses, but some people put every single purchase they make on credit cards. "
I just stood in line behind a woman buying a large bottle of chocolate drink with a credit card. I see this all the time, and although I know I'm a dinosaur, I still can't get used to not paying for small purchases with a small bill or pocket change.
Look at this crap I just got in my mailbox. they want people to support warehouse lending? What a horrible idea.
Please Take Action NOW in the House of Representatives and Senate to Get Warehouse Lending Going Restarted
xxxx:
Two letters are being circulated in the U.S. Senate and House of Representatives addressed to Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke and Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, urging the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department to take action immediately to address the crisis in the residential and multifamily warehouse lending markets.
Getting this letter circulated has been a major priority of the Mortgage Bankers Association (MBA) and the Mortgage Action Alliance (MAA), and was a key message of MBA during the recent National Policy Conference, when hundreds of MBA members went to Capitol Hill to request action on this vital issue.
Please take action NOW and urge your senators and representative to sign on to these important letters. Visit the Mortgage Action Alliance (MAA) Web page and click "TAKE ACTION." When you do, you will be asked to log in to the new MAA action center. Your username and password are below. You will be asked to enter your contact information -- your home address to match with your legislators and your company -- to enable MAA to connect you with your legislator. Remember, being a MAA member is free, easy and totally voluntary. Thank you.
username: xxxxx
password: xxxx
MAA is the premier grassroots lobbying organization of the real estate finance industry. The mission of the Mortgage Action Alliance is to further build a network of individuals dedicated to strengthening the industry's voice and lobbying power in Washington, DC and state capitals.
pavel - I know it seems absurd, but when you see that type of behavior, you cant really know what you are witnessing.
I pay for every purchase on credit. Why? Because I get 1.5% cashback on every single purchase. Plus, it is much easier to account for every penny of my spending. However, I pay my bill in full every month, month after month. And if I lost my job, I could still do that.
So you could have seen me one day and thought, what a maroon! Or you could have been watching someone who is just slowly accruing a higher debt load that they'll never pay off. (In which case you and me and everyone else here will pay it off when we eventually finish bailing out the banks.)
Now, if you sampled 1000 people doing that...what number would you guess fall in each category? I reckon its maybe 10% who do what I do, and the rest, debt slaves.
SHREVEPORT, La. (AP) -- General Motors Corp. will close its assembly and stamping plants in Shreveport, La., no later than June 2012, the company said Wednesday.
GM spokesman Chris Lee said the Shreveport operation, which employs 950 people, was added to the nine permanent plant closings, along with the idling of three others, announced when the company filed for bankruptcy protection on June 1.
Shreveport will continue to assemble Chevrolet Colorado and GMC Canyon pickup trucks based upon market demand, but with production ending no later than June 2012. The plants "will not be allocated any new products," Lee said.
The plants also assemble the commercial Hummer H3 and H3T pickup truck. GM has tentatively agreed to sell the commercial Hummer brand to Sichuan Tengzhong Heavy Industrial Machinery Co. during the third quarter. A Hummer spokesman earlier said that the buyer had planned to move the annual production of about 10,000 Hummers from South Africa to Shreveport.
Lee said that if the deal goes through, Hummer production in Shreveport would continue for a yet-to-be determined period of time that will be decided by the new owner.
It had been widely hoped that the operation would continue after it escaped the initial plant closure list released in June.
So much for saving american jobs. Second, so much for the subsidized "v car" plant adding jobs to the robust and rebounding LA economy.
I have a Chase card where they increased my monthly payment from 2% to 5%. I don't care. I figured that if I pay off 5% every month, I'll pay off more than half the balance in a year.
They are just screwing themselves. People with good credit like me can pay it off, and then they won't have nearly as much income from loan spreads and they'll be stuck with the bad debt from people who can't pay it off. It's really short-sighted.
what about purchasing designer items then selling them on ebay before defaulting? Or you could pay off your student loans with the CC then default. People did this with HELOCs and cash out RE sales so why not run the game on a slightly different field?
Just remember the BK timelines. For example, luxury purchases made on a CC within 60 days of filing are presumptively non-dischargeable. Purchases made outside of that the window can still be denied discharge by the BK Court. Of course, money is fungible, so you could just move the rent to the CC and purchase the luxury goods with cash.
If they had people willing to bump along paying the minimum payment for 15 years!! they had a cash cow on their hands. By bumping the minimum payment percentage from 2 to 5% they not only killed the cow - they nuked it so they'll get nothing!!
Congress had something to do with that, changing the bankruptcy laws. Credit card banking is in a bind - people paying the minimum with a growing balance are defaults waiting to happen, and people who pay in full every month are deadbeats.
" we will not monetize (homepage, profile) wrote on Wed, 6/24/2009 - 4:37 pm
Who has 50k in CREDIT CARD debt?
Wow is right."
I had a friend that had 35k in CC debt back in the mid-90's. He had a good salary too; it just happens if you're not careful. We've NEVER carried a balance, but a lot of folks do, and some do it ALL of the time.
Since we are tripping Doors today, apropos of credit card banksters...
Awkward instant
And the first animal is jettisoned,
Legs furiously pumping
Their stiff green gallop,
And heads bob up
Poise
Delicate
Pause
Consent
In mute nostril agony
Carefully refined
And sealed over.
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! You're not really going to try to insinuate "integrity" into a discussion of how we should deal with rapacious pigmen bankers, are you?
The real credic\t card crunch is still to come. That's when the CC companies pretend they are losing money on those of us who pay off every month. They don't because of transaction and vendor and other management fees but they won't admit to that.
I don't think tthe Fed has any dea the consequences of a shift back towards a cash economy. I don't expect they'll let the CC companies do much in the way of charging/limiting good borrowers.
" Charles Kiting (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/24/2009 - 4:34 pm
why doesn't this woman think she has a problem if she's paying nearly a thousand a month in minimum payments now?
Not to make excuses, but some people put every single purchase they make on credit cards. Cable, phones, groceries, gas, utilities... that $600 a month right there for some people. "
Our monthly bill is much higher than that, but we NEVER carry a balance. Over the years my wife has accumulated 100k's of airline miles doing so.
and we wonder why some banks postpone the RE/CRE default process.... lalalalalala;
some others more connected are underwriting REIT shares, so REIT partnerships could pay off outstanding debt to the same banks, while those banks are also getting underwriting fees. And while the practice of upgrading a firm before additional share release is questionable (they settled once, will settle twice), the SEC apparently LALALALALA
what, what, what? : ( - relax, it will improve their balance sheet, a strategy called: confuse & run... lalalalala
I have a Chase card where they increased my monthly payment from 2% to 5%. I don't care. I figured that if I pay off 5% every month, I'll pay off more than half the balance in a year.
They also raised the interest rate so that you actually can't get ahead merely paying the minimum (on balances over a certain size).
Cinco - x : I used to do the mileage accrual, but since the airlines keep devaluing them, it has made more sense in recent years to get the cashback discount. Mine is linked to a savings account and gets directly deposited every 6 months. Quite convenient.
At this point, Id rather shoot myself than ever pay a bankster a cent of interest.
Killing the newspaper industry crushes the softwood forest industry crushing the lumber industry debasing the existing housing stock replacement value etc. etc. etc.
Unintended consequences in the land of hoocoodanode.
I thought about taking cash advances on my card and walking away with 50K free and clear.
But, I was raised with integrity and honesty so I am prevented from acting like a PIG!
As you well know, you are free to decide your own path of action...
I thought Debt cards replaced Credit cards years ago...
Seems like the Consumer Protection Act of 2005 was really a great idea since it allowed for everyone to be able to run up as much credit as possible with the banks thinking that no one could default via bankruptcy.... what they should have done is make unsecure loans easier to walk away from and that might have restrand the banks in lending so much...
Because I get 1.5% cashback on every single purchase.
Gotta love that Blue Cash Amex. But how long will the deal last? Us freeloaders are costing Amex a pretty penny, and they'd love to get rid of us. But without us, their chargeoff numbers would go through the roof.
" GDD9000 (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/24/2009 - 4:53 pm
Cinco - x : I used to do the mileage accrual, but since the airlines keep devaluing them, it has made more sense in recent years to get the cashback discount. Mine is linked to a savings account and gets directly deposited every 6 months. Quite convenient.
At this point, Id rather shoot myself than ever pay a bankster a cent of interest."
We've noticed that too, and now "our airline" has switched to AmEx, so we're no longer on that plan anyway. Good insight anyway; Thanks...
The problem here is the CC co's are going to have to return to a model where they can be profitable with the bulk of their income from the per-transaction fee. Their golden age of massively over leveraged debt slaves paying them nice fat percentages each month may well be a thing of the past. However, as a whole, the world has very short memories so it may all come around again should the economy pick up.
Our monthly bill is much higher than that, but we NEVER carry a balance. Over the years my wife has accumulated 100k's of airline miles doing so.
As I said, I am the same way. But some people just slice their paycheck the same every month and if that doesn't cover the entire credit card bill, they just carry it over. Again, I have family members putting money in a savings account rather than paying off credit card balances in full and they think they are being financially prudent.
"I don't think tthe Fed has any dea the consequences of a shift back towards a cash economy."
Dawg,
care to expand on that thought?
The headline will be about reduced tax revenues and a new underground economy but the big other shoe IMO will be the inflationary necessity to actually printing more money and the reduced spending associated with a cash economy. [Credit induces more spending.]
Destroy USD through rapid deflation/ inflation cycle.
Institute cashless society
Tax
When I was in Amsterdam, every place that took credit cards wanted an additional 4% for transaction fee.
And no, coffeeshops don't take credit cards; cash only.
Killing the newspaper industry crushes the softwood forest industry crushing the lumber industry debasing the existing housing stock replacement value etc. etc. etc.
Government paper-pushing more than makes up for the shrinkage in the newspaper industry.
I'm with sm-landlord. Why PUSH paying cardholders into default? I just don't understand.
Part of the explanation could be that the bank AS SERVICER would benefit from the higher minimum payments. Defaults would be suffered by the bondholders.
Whenever I get a cc solicitation I shred the form with my name on it, stuff some of the marketing material in the postage paid envelope, and send it back to them.
Add a few pennies and it knocks up the postage ~ 61 cents. I must have done this hundreds of times. Fun, fun, fun.
Other ways to stick it to banks:
Overpay your bills by small amounts. It throws their accounting into turmoil and they will typically send you a check in the mail at the end of the year at cost (typically insured FED EX). I've also had comical interactions with frantic accounting staff trying to figure out why I have a constant negative balance.
Call over the smallest issue, have a hissy fit, and ALWAYS ask to talk to a supervisor. I've done this many dozens of times. I do this on bluetooth so it costs me nothing in productivity.
Sign up for free cash and gift cards and follow the instructions to the letter (I've made three figures doing this over the past several years).
And then there is the gum on camera and insert card coated with super-glue into ATM kind of minor vandalism...
"The headline will be about reduced tax revenues and a new underground economy but the big other shoe IMO will be the inflationary necessity to actually printing more money and the reduced spending associated with a cash economy."
Exactly. In a fiat currency/fractional reserve money system, debt IS money.
banking would be pretty boring if we had a hard currency and no fractional reserving. imagine a world where the only money to be lent was that actually on deposit in a bank, backed by gold or other commodities.
"Add a few pennies and it knocks up the postage ~ 61 cents. I must have done this hundreds of times. Fun, fun, fun.
Other ways to stick it to banks:
Overpay your bills by small amounts. It throws their accounting into turmoil and they will typically send you a check in the mail at the end of the year at cost (typically insured FED EX). I've also had comical interactions with frantic accounting staff trying to figure out why I have a constant negative balance.
Call over the smallest issue, have a hissy fit, and ALWAYS ask to talk to a supervisor. I've done this many dozens of times. I do this on bluetooth so it costs me nothing in productivity.
Sign up for free cash and gift cards and follow the instructions to the letter (I've made three figures doing this over the past several years).
And then there is the gum on camera and insert card coated with super-glue into ATM kind of minor vandalism... "
I wouldn't condone vandalism. But there are plenty of ways to work the system.
My wife is the queen of that. She has opened and canceled so many credit cards, her credit report is 20 pages long. Always just to get the freebies associated with opening up a card.
Always pays as agreed, never runs a balance, never pays an annual fee, and has no qualms about canceling a card after six months.
And the beauty? Through some quirk in the FICO algorithm, she has an 810 FICO.
My wife and I had a discussion about what to do with the points we've earned. Both of us think they will become worthless in short order so the most bang for the buck or er point seems to be gift cards.
If Home Depot beats earnings next quarter you know who to blame...
"My monthly payment from my 4 accounts will go from 961.00/month to 2394.00/month. Needless to say I will not be able to make these payments and will end up defaulting on my accounts and probably claim bankruptcy. I have been a loyal customer for well over 15 years, never late and have paid more than the minimum many times."
This quote makes my head hurt. If she's been a cash cow for 15 years, it would be interesting to see how much she would have in savings if she had not been a credit junkie...just what she paid in interest alone would have given her a healthy balance.
Eh. I have well over $100K in credit card debt outstanding at the moment. All of it is either at 0% or 1.9% APR, and all of it is making more than that for me. 35K or 50K isn't much at all.
WestSac_grrl,
...pay your taxes with a CC then default?
Yes... taxes and student loans but really, if you can pay up in three months than you should just do that and limit the banks profit.... then go to debt cards or better cash only (but then you carry cash) so not sure what is best...
But anyone that can only pay the minimum payment should walk away.... unless you have one foot in the grave....
ghostfaceinvestah (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/24/2009 - 1:58 pm
if all credit card rewards went away tomorrow (miles, cash back, etc), how many people would cut back on their use of credit cards?
I'd not only go all cash in a heartbeat I'd seek out vendors who prefer to deal in cash not wanting the costs of credit transactions to be hidden in the display prices of the goods and services.
It's going to be particularly hard on places like Target who don't own their credit channel but merely get a stipend for branding other cards.
Add a few pennies and it knocks up the postage ~ 61 cents. I must have done this hundreds of times. Fun, fun, fun.
Yuan--
Very nice! Given how much I enjoy sending the cc app envelopes back already, it'll warm the cockles of my twisted little heart to throw some pennies in as well.
"When I was in Amsterdam, every place that took credit cards wanted an additional 4% for transaction fee.
And no, coffeeshops don't take credit cards; cash only.
"
which means only that EU based banks have much higher lobbying power & less competition than our banks. Amazing huh, we aren't alone...
just look at their write-downs and capital rations,.... mwhat, what what?
"I'd not only go all cash in a heartbeat I'd seek out vendors who prefer to deal in cash not wanting the costs of credit transactions to be hidden in the display prices of the goods and services."
And give up on online purchases? That would be a problem for a lot of people and a lot of reasons.
I read somewhere recently that the companies behind the branded cards (like Target) are in trouble and may exit.
"Killing the newspaper industry crushes the softwood forest industry crushing the lumber industry debasing the existing housing stock replacement value etc. etc. etc."
Hearst is funding R&D on a cheap electronic tablet/reader (~$50) that could be used to receive and read; phase out the trees entirely. Others are in the field, too.
For newspapers, that's maybe half an answer. Getting rid of debt load is another part, going interactive with Internet-based streaming "TV News" channels is another.
"I'd not only go all cash in a heartbeat I'd seek out vendors who prefer to deal in cash not wanting the costs of credit transactions to be hidden in the display prices of the goods and services."
We have a couple of all-cash merchants we know. Prices are lower. One of 'em, a restaurant, just put an ATM in the corner and leaves it up to you.
Both take checks from locals; just like the old days.
sm_landlord (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Wed, 6/24/2009 - 2:13 pm
"I'd not only go all cash in a heartbeat I'd seek out vendors who prefer to deal in cash not wanting the costs of credit transactions to be hidden in the display prices of the goods and services."
And give up on online purchases? That would be a problem for a lot of people and a lot of reasons.
Good point. i was wrong. I'd still need to use some credit lines.
I read somewhere recently that the companies behind the branded cards (like Target) are in trouble and may exit.
My blog?
Seriously, rising costs, increasing charge offs, narrower margins. The business is shaking out. I do expect what Walmart has planned to also be a game changer as they will do to credit what they did with retail. It won't be pretty or fair but TPTB won't be in any position to object.
I assist an elderly gentleman in managing his meager finances. He has one remaining active CC which he uses almost soley for paying medical bills. It is a Sears card, but really a Chase product and his minimum payment has been 2% of a fairly large balance ($6000). He actually has been paying a bit more than that. Chase has dropped his limit three times in the last year, each time such that it is just a few dollars above his balance.
If the minimum payment is raised to 5%, I will recommend that he abandon this card altogether. He can use his debit card for necessary purchases.
One potential problem...his checking account was with WaMu, EDIT: (now) owned by CHASE!
I normally use my CCs like a debt card for the cashback feature but wanted a little more cushion in the saving account. I just like the idea of paying my taxes with CC debt. It kind of brings it all around full circle
Put on your tin foil hats for this one, folks. Bob Chapman lays out a sinister plot by TPTB to destroy Western economies to complete their looting and install one world govt. Scary thing is, it may be true!
"I do expect what Walmart has planned to also be a game changer as they will do to credit what they did with retail."
I haven't heard what WalMart is up to, but that reminds me of a possible issue with Costco. Since they only accept Amex, they are extremely vulnerable to Amex problems. If Amex starts pulling cards, they will have to figure something else out fast.
Oddly, I just noticed they installed those old-fashioned pneumatic cash delivery tubes in my local Costco... maybe they are anticipating handling a lot of cash in the near future???
Apparently, the age-old pasttime of taping a biz-reply envelope to a brick has been superseded by postal regs allowing them to toss it into the trash. Sad really.
I never use ATM check cards anymore and anytime I am upgraded to one I call and request that I be downgraded back to a regular ATM that requires a PIN number.
I had my card stolen and in a 2 hour period over 10k runup on it including 4 1500 charges at a single large retailer. I did get all the money back but in the meantime my account was over-drawn.
We put everything possible on our credit card and pay in full at the end of the month.
I have purchased a car, piano and eye surgery on CC for the benefits. Don't forget that for non-business cards most CC only give you 10k worth of points per month. So split larger purchases up onto several cards. We learned that the hard way after buying our car.
GDD9000 (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/24/2009 - 4:44 pm
"pavel - I know it seems absurd, but when you see that type of behavior, you cant really know what you are witnessing.
I pay for every purchase on credit. Why? Because I get 1.5% cashback on every single purchase. Plus, it is much easier to account for every penny of my spending. However, I pay my bill in full every month, month after month. And if I lost my job, I could still do that. "
paying taxes by CC. We tried that and there is a 3% convenience fee, so it's not worth it.
My county started charging the fee because the banks were paying escrowed property taxes via credit card to collect on the transaction fee and the interchange. But there was no charge for in-person credit card transactions.
sm_landlord (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Wed, 6/24/2009 - 2:25 pm
"I do expect what Walmart has planned to also be a game changer as they will do to credit what they did with retail."
I haven't heard what WalMart is up to, but that reminds me of a possible issue with Costco. Since they only accept Amex, they are extremely vulnerable to Amex problems. If Amex starts pulling cards, they will have to figure something else out fast.
Mr. Price is a sharp cookie. They had Discover for years. At least at first Amex paid them to be their card. Even now I get 2% on many/most purchases [Executive account]. If Amex balks there are a dozen suitors waiting to pimp themselves to the almighty warehouse store.
// When I was in Amsterdam, every place that took credit cards wanted an additional 4% for transaction fee.
And no, coffeeshops don't take credit cards; cash only. //
Erm, was that a coffeeshop coffeeshop or an Amsterdam coffeeshop?
sm_landlord,
The insurance thing is an outrage...too bad it's buried under the other piles of horse manure flowing from the govt and business sectors. It could be an opportunity for class action trial lawyers, though. Healthcare pricing is one of the most fouled up parts of the US economy...even more so than the defense industry. That's saying a lot.
Re: mailing back junk in CC envelopes. I'm glad to know I'm not the only twisted a-hole that does this. Thanks for the pennies idea. Learn something new every day.
Of course I just checked my latest statement from Chase- they didn't raise my minimum, but I fully expect to see it coming.
The do have some cover in the recent changes, but once again, they are applying them stupidly.
The biggest problem they have is all of the balance transfer legacy balances on essentially dead card (um, like mine- I think I can actually find the physical card in my safe soemwhere), with puny interest rates. I have an entire portfolio of 1.9 to 3.9% until I pay it off cards running balance down over essentially a five to six year period. (That's you too Zitibank).
Nothing like cheap money to finance whatever I feel like. So, with a higher monthly and a fixed low interest rate, these will amortize at lightspeed. And I will have to sell some of that pesky profitable glod to make the higher bills. Ah well.
Ebay will make some more criminally large profits off me.
Sigh. All good scams come to end someday. As for default rates going skyhigh, geez, can't read an unemployment report, can we in the banking business (Advanta, Crapitol One)!
When I worked at a department store I would always have at least a couple people a week give a minimum payment on a balance of $3000+. And this was a card that charged 25% interest.
A thought though: In the event of a large-scale cyber attack, retail trade will be vulnerable. Perhaps not even cash will be available except what is at hand, much less electronic transactions. There's a plot idea for Nova. Perhaps a massive solar flare would have a similar result.
Since we're on the subject, I guess everyone knows by now that Advanta has completely exited the CC business.
I got a note from them last month, saying that everyone's cards were canceled, effective immediately.
The reason given was that could no longer get funding to float the throughput.
I don't think the merchant is a player in this- they accept credit cards because they are the cheaper alternative to accepting cash/check and losing business. The perks are being paid out of the hide of the borrowers and unwittingly us "deadbeats" have become co-conspirators of the credit card industry. I don't know if the CC intended it that way but they have created a sub group who will provide political support in their fight with regulators.
You know the gaming of the credit card companies by the smarter class was incredible too. Consider the implicit losses of a $10,000 1.9% till you pay it off with a 2% minimum payment- the first months bill looks like this:
Now in a year you would have paid off $2144.55
leaving a balance of $ 7854.45 and generating $179.50 in interest.
Now, you drop your payment back down to the that minimum payment of $157.09 and extend your payments again.
Jeez, yet another year of crappy profits ensues!!
A grand total of $ 140.99 in interest earned on that balance!!!
WTF!!! You get to hit reset again every month essentaily with a 2% minimum.
I figured this was going to end six or seven years ago- but nooooo they kept doing it!!!
Now, that is how you make a tail of business that is death to your profits when they default having had your money for years at trifling rates.
This model was beyond stupid, yet pursued with great vigor.
"I don't think the merchant is a player in this- they accept credit cards because they are the cheaper alternative to accepting cash/check and losing business."
One of my local liquor stores just adds an extra charge if you use a CC.
The pitch to retailers was that people spend more on impulse purchases if you accept CCs, and it seems that they are correct.
Seems the CC companies are running their own version of the the stress test. The consequences are predictable. Good credit will not only flee but badmouth them for a generation and formerly captive reliable borrowers will default. I just don't see the revenue optimization calculus they are executing.
creditcriminalslovetarp (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/24/2009 - 5:53 pm
"2012 is always getting picked on..
google search page 1"
Some opinions I've read - maybe knowledgeable - is that such an event would be observable with enough lead time to protect our grids. I dunno. I'm still getting over my astonishment at our Metro Rail catastrophe here in DC, in which there was a three year lead time to fix the problems, but the warning was ignored - because, they say, there wasn't enough money.
@GDD9000 & pavel, every day I stop at the store and get a large coffee and a USA Today paper I see others paying for small (less than $10) amounts all the time. I understand both sides but what KILLS me is when the line is long and not moving beacuse a card is declined. I can not tell you how many times I have seen this over the last year at the same store, it is at least 2-3 times a week and once they opend another line just for CC purchases because of this. I asked if the CC machine was acting up clerk said no, it just takes to long for the people to try and find one that will go though. Sad so sad.
captain NEMO!
and JPM started charging a 5% balance transfer fee.
So long wave riders...surfs out!
CR...your getting slow in your old age
I posted this, this morning.
No news here. They've surely covered their bets, along with raising rates and fees to make up fo the losses, and if all else fails, are backstopped by the taxpayer.
I often wondered how many people were managing the credit card surf....i know pretty much every financially literate person I knew with balances would just transfer them back and forth between cards as they offered 0%. Then the balance transfer with no fee, became tougher, and you really had to work. And then, maybe a year ago, it was nearly impossible to do it without incurring a 3% fee. Now, IM thinking this game is a losing proposition.
With $600 billion+ in credit card debt outstanding in the US, we're starting to talk about real money at 10% chargeoff rates.
Financial Terrorism.
Plain and simple.
Records are made to be broken! go team go!
For the first time in years I received a credit card solicitation that contained the actual card rather than a fake. I guess the CC company wouldn't want to delay my running up unpayable debts for the time it takes to send the card through the mail.
20% charge offs over 2 years = 1 AIG - nah, not real money yet (those bond forgers didn't think 130 billion was real money...)
I second that
Whenever I get a cc solicitation I shred the form with my name on it, stuff some of the marketing material in the postage paid envelope, and send it back to them. My own small way of sticking it to the banksters, and one that I heartily encourage others to adopt.
Buffett finally seeing the light. The economy is in shambles.
Mfg is practically dead.
Man, the pigs are flying around here today.
"Whenever I get a cc solicitation I shred the form with my name on it, stuff some of the marketing material in the postage paid envelope, and send it back to them. My own small way of sticking it to the banksters, and one that I heartily encourage others to adopt."
thanks for the idea, i will start doing that myself.
It is all green, as GreenShoot.
shill - yeah, I missed this one - but I thought it was still worth posting. I was distracted by a few other news releases.
these are really ugly numbers. And BKs are still rising sharply - that won't help either
best to all
It appears Manufacturing paid alot of credit card accounts each month. No job, no wonder why consumers are in hibernation.
Another up day on low volume. Weird market.
I don't normally like picking on people with less intelligence, but anybody that suggests that we need less democracy is clearly mental.
See Cramer video
Retail sales are up.... why not, you never have to pay the CC bill....
Manufacturing AND construction. A lot of relatively uneducated people (and probably financially very uneducated) running up bills on the CCs that they could never hope to pay off in good times. And what do you know...the good times were but an illusion.
Charge offs after six months of not paying... so this will be going on for a while...
kcoop- the new feature when you click 'in reply to' is AWESOME. thanks!!
now I wish more would use the reply link
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- Top U.S. monetary-policy makers at the Federal Reserve breathed a big sigh of relief: The second coming of the Great Depression has been averted.
FEDs did not see recession comming last year, and now they are celebrating that they avoided depression? It make me sick all of these dishonesty in out system.
I believe at this point in GD1 they had pretty much said the worst was past. Dont be too surprised if they are wrong yet again.
kcoop- the new feature
Kcoop rules.
I heartily recommend that anyone who hasn't yet hit the ChipIn button, do so now! Every little bit helps (I know, I pay colo fees to host a couple of sites).
It takes atleast several months before a credit card company will charge off a delinquent account. It would seem that chargeoffs would be a lagging indicator. If it's tied to employment...expect it to continue to rise as long as unemployment does plus a couple of months.
DOW 8299 at last count. So far a swing and a miss. Missing some paint on the brush they are using to paint the tape.
+1
I hadn't noticed it either but it's slick.
funny, bloomberg tv just flashed a headline saying "stocks up 4th day in 5". i assume they were talking about the S&P:
6/17 910.71
6/18 918.37 +
6/19 921.23 +
6/22 893.04 -
6/23 895.10 +
6/24 900.93 +
Hey, they are right. Awesome news.
what a bunch of shills.
As noted above, charge off's take place 6 months after last payment. So everyone that was charged off in June quit paying in November. I don't think it's going to peak at 12% charge off rate, not with unemployment increasing.
It will probably peak in the 2nd quarter of next year. If we're lucky.
Promise sorry leaders allows the Wide Elephant Party to keep it's Rush chairman, as the alternatives are even worse.
Elephants and Asses
Trampling the Masses
Does it matter who steals from you?
Red or Blue?
Is it possible that there will be a mass die-off of various industries all @ once?
Newspapers, credit cards, chain motels, airlines, etc.
They are all sick dogs, all financially rabid...
I clicked through the link in the article and some of the posts on the consumeraffairs.com site were mind blowing.
For example
"Kay of Pottsville, PA June 23, 2009
I too recieved the notice today from Chase Credit cards regarging the increase in the minimum payment from 2% to 5%. Was told by customer service that it was due to the poor economy and was referred to their economic hardship dept. There I was told I could possibly renegiotate a lesser monthly payment but my interest would go from 3.9% to 21.99%. I was told that out of over a billion credit card holders 850,000 were effected by this change.
My monthly payment from my 4 accounts will go from 961.00/month to 2394.00/month. Needless to say I will not be able to make these payments and will end up defaulting on my accounts and probably claim bankruptcy. I have been a loyal customer for well over 15 years, never late and have paid more than the minimum many times.
Other sites says while it is immoral and unfair it is legal to do."
Wow.
@JD - I'd also like to see some projections on how many of the auto parts suppliers won't survive having to eat both the C and GM BK losses. Ditto suppliers for other BK's.
The European Central Bank just announced a 440 billion euro aid package to banks.
Don't forget Ford:
DETROIT (Reuters) - Ford Motor Co (F.N) aims to cut the number of its parts suppliers by almost half by the end of 2009 as the only U.S. automaker to avoid bankruptcy attempts to shore up its supply base at a time of deep financial stress for the industry.
"funny, bloomberg tv just flashed a headline saying "stocks up 4th day in 5". i assume they were talking about the S&P:"
Shill TV uses the following routine.
1) If one of either DJI or SPX is up then "Stocks up for the day"
2) If either DJI or SPX is up and NASDAQ is down "Stocks finished mixed"
3) If any of the above 3 indexes finish .00001 points off the LOD then "Stocks close off lows of the day"
nike net 70c vs 98c
revenue dwn
I have several CCs zero balances and a 800s score but only one with a balance.
Wonder if it's worth just defaulting and paying them off with a 1/3 offer. I mean if people are being ruthless and withholding their mortgage payment to generate cash holdings, why shouldn't CC holders get a similiar benefit just because they didn't engage in a transaction with 6% RE handshake?
"My monthly payment from my 4 accounts will go from 961.00/month to 2394.00/month. Needless to say I will not be able to make these payments and will end up defaulting on my accounts and probably claim bankruptcy."
Do the banks actually want more charge-offs?
These actions seem suicidal to me.
I have no dog in this fight because I never carry balances, but I do use CCs as purchasing cards.
I wonder what the banks think they are going to accomplish with this?
Rate should climb due to moral hazard as much as unemployment, loss of wealth, and credit regs...
west sac grrl,
run them up first, head to bora bora check out the fish below your hut, get a new ride and some toys then fit in with rest of bunch....
...the credit card indicative loss rates for the "more adverse" stress test scenario were 18% to 20% over two years.
CR,
Could we have some charts tracking the stress test assumptions vs reality?
All those various industries are integral to one other industry, one that I work in; Conventions and Tourism
Credit cards pay for Flights, Hotel Rooms, Etc Etc and for the most part, when you book a room, it has to be a credit card, not a debit card.
Motels cater to travelers that are typically not flying and have lower income levels. You can't force poor people to take trips (and the Grapes of Wrath is not what I'd call a vacation.)
The situation in the hotel industry is gory and awful.
@Mike - My question about your example is - why doesn't this woman think she has a problem if she's paying nearly a thousand a month in minimum payments now? Since there was no reference to keeping a business running or anything, it sounds like another case of someone just coming back to earth from their economic future.
There must some magic number where the game goes TILT, as far as charge-offs go. If push meets shove the credit card companies go belly-up en masse, like so many beached whales, on porpoise.
2010.
The End.
This is the end
Beautiful friend
This is the end
My only friend, the end
Of our elaborate plans, the end
Of everything that stands, the end
hmmm what about purchasing designer items then selling them on ebay before defaulting? Or you could pay off your student loans with the CC then default. People did this with HELOCs and cash out RE sales so why not run the game on a slightly different field?
I don't see this ending well.
homeg..
at least include the video
YouTube - The Doors - The end
Sea Launch files for BK - love this statement :
Sea Launch Co., a satellite launch services provider owned by Boeing and international partners, has filed for bankruptcy protection.
In its Chapter 11 filing, the Long Beach-based company listed assets of between $100 million and $500 million against liabilities of between $500 million and $1 billion.
quality - just perfect how the top range of possible estimates for assets just touches the bottom of potential liabilities.
Translation - we have no friggin idea what this company is worth.
I think I'd buy liquor, silver, glod or lead with my to-be-defaulted CC.
But that's just me and I have integrity so I won't.
@GDD - my translation is that if you're one of the debt holders of the $500M-$1B, kiss it goodbye.
If push meets shove the credit card companies go belly-up en masse
Companies go belly up? That's soooooo 2005.
actually, the paying off the student loans is brilliant since those can't be discharged by BK. Hmmm now to see if I can put this thought genie back the bottle...
why doesn't this woman think she has a problem if she's paying nearly a thousand a month in minimum payments now?
Not to make excuses, but some people put every single purchase they make on credit cards. Cable, phones, groceries, gas, utilities... that $600 a month right there for some people. Not a big deal if you pay off the balance, but some people get used to paying X dollars a month and then an extra purchase goes on a perpetual balance that adds up. Yes, it's financially reckless and I've been unsuccessful in getting some family members to see this - they merely insult me by calling me a "cheap ass" and "tightwad" even though I spend more money than they do. They simply refuse to do the math - throwing $200 a month into a savings account is stupid if you have credit card balances yet they claim to be financially competent because they are "saving $200 every month."
I'm with sm-landlord. Why PUSH paying cardholders into default? I just don't understand.
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. government will "very soon" launch its program to use federal funds and private capital to buy banks' toxic assets, the new overseer of the government's $700-billion bank bailout fund said on Tuesday.
Why push cardholders to default?
Because the Federal Reserve has your back?
Then when you extend credit again you can soak them on the interest rates?
Or because you need more toxic assets to purchase?
"where the game goes TILT"
the game would have tilted in the past year without trillions and trillions from the fed
Who has 50k in CREDIT CARD debt?
Wow is right.
Treasury -
I'm with you - hence my WOW comment at the end of my post.
This action by banks is akin to pushing Humpty off the ledge. If they had people willing to bump along paying the minimum payment for 15 years!! they had a cash cow on their hands. By bumping the minimum payment percentage from 2 to 5% they not only killed the cow - they nuked it so they'll get nothing!!
For Iran
The old get old
And the young get stronger
May take a week
And it may take longer
They got the guns
But we got the numbers
Gonna win, yeah
We're takin' over
Come on!
Yeah!
For the USof A
Your ballroom days are over, baby
Night is drawing near
Shadows of the evening crawl across the years
Ya walk across the floor with a flower in your hand
Trying to tell me no one understands
Trade in your hours for a handful dimes
Gonna' make it, baby, in our prime
WestSac_grrl,
Use your cards to start a business, use the profits
to pay off student loans, then declare Non-consumer Chap 7.... (that way you walk away from debt and keep current/future income else you have to go through Chap 13 ;( .... Maybe you could flip houses... oh sorry, you missed that one...
'4 accounts will go from 961.00/month to 2394.00/month'
I'm still staggering over the idea of even having a 961 month min payment... that's more then I pay a month for rent, all utilies, car ins and half my food bill!
Question: If you're a primary dealer who just bought @ $10B in 2-year treasuries at 1.151, and the market is at 1.21, is that a green shoot for you?
"Not to make excuses, but some people put every single purchase they make on credit cards. "
I just stood in line behind a woman buying a large bottle of chocolate drink with a credit card. I see this all the time, and although I know I'm a dinosaur, I still can't get used to not paying for small purchases with a small bill or pocket change.
west sac grrl,
why not just buy gold or silver then, you can turn it into cash as you need no matter what the price....
bora bora does deserve at least 5k of balance....
http://images.shareordie.in/2008/11/borabora-island-tahiti-french-polynesia.jpg
Same here. I pay less on my Co-op dues, food and internet. No car needed thank goodness.
Look at this crap I just got in my mailbox. they want people to support warehouse lending? What a horrible idea.
Please Take Action NOW in the House of Representatives and Senate to Get Warehouse Lending Going Restarted
xxxx:
Two letters are being circulated in the U.S. Senate and House of Representatives addressed to Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke and Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, urging the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department to take action immediately to address the crisis in the residential and multifamily warehouse lending markets.
Getting this letter circulated has been a major priority of the Mortgage Bankers Association (MBA) and the Mortgage Action Alliance (MAA), and was a key message of MBA during the recent National Policy Conference, when hundreds of MBA members went to Capitol Hill to request action on this vital issue.
Please take action NOW and urge your senators and representative to sign on to these important letters. Visit the Mortgage Action Alliance (MAA) Web page and click "TAKE ACTION." When you do, you will be asked to log in to the new MAA action center. Your username and password are below. You will be asked to enter your contact information -- your home address to match with your legislators and your company -- to enable MAA to connect you with your legislator. Remember, being a MAA member is free, easy and totally voluntary. Thank you.
username: xxxxx
password: xxxx
MAA is the premier grassroots lobbying organization of the real estate finance industry. The mission of the Mortgage Action Alliance is to further build a network of individuals dedicated to strengthening the industry's voice and lobbying power in Washington, DC and state capitals.
Contemplating purposeful default?
Read first:
Integrity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Your rate will go down again when the Vikings in those Capial One commercials start going after the other side
Phfftp! 2 weeks in Napa and several cases of Opus 1 should do it s)
pavel - I know it seems absurd, but when you see that type of behavior, you cant really know what you are witnessing.
I pay for every purchase on credit. Why? Because I get 1.5% cashback on every single purchase. Plus, it is much easier to account for every penny of my spending. However, I pay my bill in full every month, month after month. And if I lost my job, I could still do that.
So you could have seen me one day and thought, what a maroon! Or you could have been watching someone who is just slowly accruing a higher debt load that they'll never pay off. (In which case you and me and everyone else here will pay it off when we eventually finish bailing out the banks.)
Now, if you sampled 1000 people doing that...what number would you guess fall in each category? I reckon its maybe 10% who do what I do, and the rest, debt slaves.
Breaking:
GM Closing Shreveport Plant
SHREVEPORT, La. (AP) -- General Motors Corp. will close its assembly and stamping plants in Shreveport, La., no later than June 2012, the company said Wednesday.
GM spokesman Chris Lee said the Shreveport operation, which employs 950 people, was added to the nine permanent plant closings, along with the idling of three others, announced when the company filed for bankruptcy protection on June 1.
Shreveport will continue to assemble Chevrolet Colorado and GMC Canyon pickup trucks based upon market demand, but with production ending no later than June 2012. The plants "will not be allocated any new products," Lee said.
The plants also assemble the commercial Hummer H3 and H3T pickup truck. GM has tentatively agreed to sell the commercial Hummer brand to Sichuan Tengzhong Heavy Industrial Machinery Co. during the third quarter. A Hummer spokesman earlier said that the buyer had planned to move the annual production of about 10,000 Hummers from South Africa to Shreveport.
Lee said that if the deal goes through, Hummer production in Shreveport would continue for a yet-to-be determined period of time that will be decided by the new owner.
It had been widely hoped that the operation would continue after it escaped the initial plant closure list released in June.
So much for saving american jobs. Second, so much for the subsidized "v car" plant adding jobs to the robust and rebounding LA economy.
lalalalalala (covering ears & making those ...) lalalalala, what, what ,what?!? lalalalala
there are signs on improvement, lalalalalalala
I have a Chase card where they increased my monthly payment from 2% to 5%. I don't care. I figured that if I pay off 5% every month, I'll pay off more than half the balance in a year.
They are just screwing themselves. People with good credit like me can pay it off, and then they won't have nearly as much income from loan spreads and they'll be stuck with the bad debt from people who can't pay it off. It's really short-sighted.
What is "warehouse" lending?
they want people to buy warehouses now to live in? ba dum crash
what about purchasing designer items then selling them on ebay before defaulting? Or you could pay off your student loans with the CC then default. People did this with HELOCs and cash out RE sales so why not run the game on a slightly different field?
Just remember the BK timelines. For example, luxury purchases made on a CC within 60 days of filing are presumptively non-dischargeable. Purchases made outside of that the window can still be denied discharge by the BK Court. Of course, money is fungible, so you could just move the rent to the CC and purchase the luxury goods with cash.
If they had people willing to bump along paying the minimum payment for 15 years!! they had a cash cow on their hands. By bumping the minimum payment percentage from 2 to 5% they not only killed the cow - they nuked it so they'll get nothing!!
Congress had something to do with that, changing the bankruptcy laws. Credit card banking is in a bind - people paying the minimum with a growing balance are defaults waiting to happen, and people who pay in full every month are deadbeats.
" we will not monetize (homepage, profile) wrote on Wed, 6/24/2009 - 4:37 pm
Who has 50k in CREDIT CARD debt?
Wow is right."
I had a friend that had 35k in CC debt back in the mid-90's. He had a good salary too; it just happens if you're not careful. We've NEVER carried a balance, but a lot of folks do, and some do it ALL of the time.
Since we are tripping Doors today, apropos of credit card banksters...
Awkward instant
And the first animal is jettisoned,
Legs furiously pumping
Their stiff green gallop,
And heads bob up
Poise
Delicate
Pause
Consent
In mute nostril agony
Carefully refined
And sealed over.
HomeGnome--
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! You're not really going to try to insinuate "integrity" into a discussion of how we should deal with rapacious pigmen bankers, are you?
I could have my balance paid off in 3 months but at least thinking about defaulting felt good. Makes me wonder who else is out there thinking like me
The real credic\t card crunch is still to come. That's when the CC companies pretend they are losing money on those of us who pay off every month. They don't because of transaction and vendor and other management fees but they won't admit to that.
I don't think tthe Fed has any dea the consequences of a shift back towards a cash economy. I don't expect they'll let the CC companies do much in the way of charging/limiting good borrowers.
" I have been a loyal customer for well over 15 years, never late and have paid more than the minimum many times."
Priceless!
deleted.
" Charles Kiting (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/24/2009 - 4:34 pm
why doesn't this woman think she has a problem if she's paying nearly a thousand a month in minimum payments now?
Not to make excuses, but some people put every single purchase they make on credit cards. Cable, phones, groceries, gas, utilities... that $600 a month right there for some people. "
Our monthly bill is much higher than that, but we NEVER carry a balance. Over the years my wife has accumulated 100k's of airline miles doing so.
and we wonder why some banks postpone the RE/CRE default process.... lalalalalala;
some others more connected are underwriting REIT shares, so REIT partnerships could pay off outstanding debt to the same banks, while those banks are also getting underwriting fees. And while the practice of upgrading a firm before additional share release is questionable (they settled once, will settle twice), the SEC apparently LALALALALA
what, what, what? : ( - relax, it will improve their balance sheet, a strategy called: confuse & run... lalalalala
I have a Chase card where they increased my monthly payment from 2% to 5%. I don't care. I figured that if I pay off 5% every month, I'll pay off more than half the balance in a year.
They also raised the interest rate so that you actually can't get ahead merely paying the minimum (on balances over a certain size).
at least thinking about defaulting felt good. Makes me wonder who else is out there thinking like me
Six Flags
Extended Stay
Red Roof Inn
"I don't think tthe Fed has any dea the consequences of a shift back towards a cash economy."
Dawg,
care to expand on that thought?
" mos maiorum (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/24/2009 - 4:35 pm
I'm with sm-landlord. Why PUSH paying cardholders into default? I just don't understand."
Because that's what the memo told them to do. You don't actually expect them to think for themselves, do you?
Cinco - x : I used to do the mileage accrual, but since the airlines keep devaluing them, it has made more sense in recent years to get the cashback discount. Mine is linked to a savings account and gets directly deposited every 6 months. Quite convenient.
At this point, Id rather shoot myself than ever pay a bankster a cent of interest.
Killing the newspaper industry crushes the softwood forest industry crushing the lumber industry debasing the existing housing stock replacement value etc. etc. etc.
Unintended consequences in the land of hoocoodanode.
care to expand on that thought?
taxes.
Guillotines are better than default.
"at least thinking about defaulting felt good"
I thought about taking cash advances on my card and walking away with 50K free and clear.
But, I was raised with integrity and honesty so I am prevented from acting like a PIG!
As you well know, you are free to decide your own path of action...
I thought Debt cards replaced Credit cards years ago...
Seems like the Consumer Protection Act of 2005 was really a great idea since it allowed for everyone to be able to run up as much credit as possible with the banks thinking that no one could default via bankruptcy.... what they should have done is make unsecure loans easier to walk away from and that might have restrand the banks in lending so much...
Because I get 1.5% cashback on every single purchase.
Gotta love that Blue Cash Amex. But how long will the deal last? Us freeloaders are costing Amex a pretty penny, and they'd love to get rid of us. But without us, their chargeoff numbers would go through the roof.
More paper money on the street fuels the black market economy bypassing taxation. Gov don't like it!
" GDD9000 (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/24/2009 - 4:53 pm
Cinco - x : I used to do the mileage accrual, but since the airlines keep devaluing them, it has made more sense in recent years to get the cashback discount. Mine is linked to a savings account and gets directly deposited every 6 months. Quite convenient.
At this point, Id rather shoot myself than ever pay a bankster a cent of interest."
We've noticed that too, and now "our airline" has switched to AmEx, so we're no longer on that plan anyway. Good insight anyway; Thanks...
Cash back or any perk cost the merchant not the CC company.
They also raised the interest rate so that you actually can't get ahead merely paying the minimum (on balances over a certain size).
If the minimum is based on a %, then it doesn't matter what your balance is.
"I don't think the Fed has any idea."
I think that's a better observation of fact
The problem here is the CC co's are going to have to return to a model where they can be profitable with the bulk of their income from the per-transaction fee. Their golden age of massively over leveraged debt slaves paying them nice fat percentages each month may well be a thing of the past. However, as a whole, the world has very short memories so it may all come around again should the economy pick up.
Our monthly bill is much higher than that, but we NEVER carry a balance. Over the years my wife has accumulated 100k's of airline miles doing so.
As I said, I am the same way. But some people just slice their paycheck the same every month and if that doesn't cover the entire credit card bill, they just carry it over. Again, I have family members putting money in a savings account rather than paying off credit card balances in full and they think they are being financially prudent.
fried (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/24/2009 - 1:52 pm
"I don't think tthe Fed has any dea the consequences of a shift back towards a cash economy."
Dawg,
care to expand on that thought?
The headline will be about reduced tax revenues and a new underground economy but the big other shoe IMO will be the inflationary necessity to actually printing more money and the reduced spending associated with a cash economy. [Credit induces more spending.]
freak double deletia
hmmm wonder if you can pay your taxes with a CC then default? now there is a moral hazard conundrum
if all credit card rewards went away tomorrow (miles, cash back, etc), how many people would cut back on their use of credit cards?
i certainly would.
When I was in Amsterdam, every place that took credit cards wanted an additional 4% for transaction fee.
And no, coffeeshops don't take credit cards; cash only.
Killing the newspaper industry crushes the softwood forest industry crushing the lumber industry debasing the existing housing stock replacement value etc. etc. etc.
Government paper-pushing more than makes up for the shrinkage in the newspaper industry.
I'm with sm-landlord. Why PUSH paying cardholders into default? I just don't understand.
Part of the explanation could be that the bank AS SERVICER would benefit from the higher minimum payments. Defaults would be suffered by the bondholders.
securitization again.
Whenever I get a cc solicitation I shred the form with my name on it, stuff some of the marketing material in the postage paid envelope, and send it back to them.
Add a few pennies and it knocks up the postage ~ 61 cents. I must have done this hundreds of times. Fun, fun, fun.
Other ways to stick it to banks:
Overpay your bills by small amounts. It throws their accounting into turmoil and they will typically send you a check in the mail at the end of the year at cost (typically insured FED EX). I've also had comical interactions with frantic accounting staff trying to figure out why I have a constant negative balance.
Call over the smallest issue, have a hissy fit, and ALWAYS ask to talk to a supervisor. I've done this many dozens of times. I do this on bluetooth so it costs me nothing in productivity.
Sign up for free cash and gift cards and follow the instructions to the letter (I've made three figures doing this over the past several years).
And then there is the gum on camera and insert card coated with super-glue into ATM kind of minor vandalism...
"The headline will be about reduced tax revenues and a new underground economy but the big other shoe IMO will be the inflationary necessity to actually printing more money and the reduced spending associated with a cash economy."
Exactly. In a fiat currency/fractional reserve money system, debt IS money.
banking would be pretty boring if we had a hard currency and no fractional reserving. imagine a world where the only money to be lent was that actually on deposit in a bank, backed by gold or other commodities.
probably wouldn't have 100LTV mortgages.
If the minimum is based on a %, then it doesn't matter what your balance is.
There's usually a floor where it becomes a defined dollar amount.
ZackAttack: Man, the pigs are flying around here today.
Uh-oh. Remember all those times in your life when you heard someone scoff about an improbable event and say it would happen "when pigs fly"?
It's finally caught up with us. The pigs are flying. All of them. Black swans - make room.
"Retail sales are up"
Maybe they should start to report retail Sales less CC chargeoffs. "Real Retail Sales" or some such.
"Add a few pennies and it knocks up the postage ~ 61 cents. I must have done this hundreds of times. Fun, fun, fun.
Other ways to stick it to banks:
Overpay your bills by small amounts. It throws their accounting into turmoil and they will typically send you a check in the mail at the end of the year at cost (typically insured FED EX). I've also had comical interactions with frantic accounting staff trying to figure out why I have a constant negative balance.
Call over the smallest issue, have a hissy fit, and ALWAYS ask to talk to a supervisor. I've done this many dozens of times. I do this on bluetooth so it costs me nothing in productivity.
Sign up for free cash and gift cards and follow the instructions to the letter (I've made three figures doing this over the past several years).
And then there is the gum on camera and insert card coated with super-glue into ATM kind of minor vandalism... "
I wouldn't condone vandalism. But there are plenty of ways to work the system.
My wife is the queen of that. She has opened and canceled so many credit cards, her credit report is 20 pages long. Always just to get the freebies associated with opening up a card.
Always pays as agreed, never runs a balance, never pays an annual fee, and has no qualms about canceling a card after six months.
And the beauty? Through some quirk in the FICO algorithm, she has an 810 FICO.
Nope retail is up because few are paying their mortgage and using the cash for other treats
My wife and I had a discussion about what to do with the points we've earned. Both of us think they will become worthless in short order so the most bang for the buck or er point seems to be gift cards.
If Home Depot beats earnings next quarter you know who to blame...
I put 100% of my purchases on my CC. I do this for 2 main reasons:
* tracking all my spending via http://www.wesabe.com or Free Personal Finance Software, Budget Software, Online Money Management and Budget Planner | Mint.com - makes budgeting and tracking my money super easy
* 5% cash back (on some stuff, 1% on others)
Of course, I also pay everything off a few times a month to minimize the total CC utilization.
"My monthly payment from my 4 accounts will go from 961.00/month to 2394.00/month. Needless to say I will not be able to make these payments and will end up defaulting on my accounts and probably claim bankruptcy. I have been a loyal customer for well over 15 years, never late and have paid more than the minimum many times."
This quote makes my head hurt. If she's been a cash cow for 15 years, it would be interesting to see how much she would have in savings if she had not been a credit junkie...just what she paid in interest alone would have given her a healthy balance.
Eh. I have well over $100K in credit card debt outstanding at the moment. All of it is either at 0% or 1.9% APR, and all of it is making more than that for me. 35K or 50K isn't much at all.
WestSac_grrl,
...pay your taxes with a CC then default?
Yes... taxes and student loans but really, if you can pay up in three months than you should just do that and limit the banks profit.... then go to debt cards or better cash only (but then you carry cash) so not sure what is best...
But anyone that can only pay the minimum payment should walk away.... unless you have one foot in the grave....
ghostfaceinvestah (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/24/2009 - 1:58 pm
if all credit card rewards went away tomorrow (miles, cash back, etc), how many people would cut back on their use of credit cards?
I'd not only go all cash in a heartbeat I'd seek out vendors who prefer to deal in cash not wanting the costs of credit transactions to be hidden in the display prices of the goods and services.
It's going to be particularly hard on places like Target who don't own their credit channel but merely get a stipend for branding other cards.
the reduced spending associated with a cash economy. [Credit induces more spending.]
Exactly. You can kiss off impulse purchases w/o credit cards.
Add a few pennies and it knocks up the postage ~ 61 cents. I must have done this hundreds of times. Fun, fun, fun.
Yuan--
Very nice! Given how much I enjoy sending the cc app envelopes back already, it'll warm the cockles of my twisted little heart to throw some pennies in as well.
"When I was in Amsterdam, every place that took credit cards wanted an additional 4% for transaction fee.
And no, coffeeshops don't take credit cards; cash only.
"
which means only that EU based banks have much higher lobbying power & less competition than our banks. Amazing huh, we aren't alone...
just look at their write-downs and capital rations,.... mwhat, what what?
"I'd not only go all cash in a heartbeat I'd seek out vendors who prefer to deal in cash not wanting the costs of credit transactions to be hidden in the display prices of the goods and services."
And give up on online purchases? That would be a problem for a lot of people and a lot of reasons.
I read somewhere recently that the companies behind the branded cards (like Target) are in trouble and may exit.
if all credit card rewards went away tomorrow (miles, cash back, etc), how many people would cut back on their use of credit cards?
i certainly would.
Not me. I'd keep using CCs:
* theft prevention
* electronic tracking of spending (saves wife and me from typing everything into my phone)
now, if they started doing widespread $x for cash, $x+y for credit, I might consider going cash. But pulling cash from the ATM is such a pain
"Killing the newspaper industry crushes the softwood forest industry crushing the lumber industry debasing the existing housing stock replacement value etc. etc. etc."
Hearst is funding R&D on a cheap electronic tablet/reader (~$50) that could be used to receive and read; phase out the trees entirely. Others are in the field, too.
For newspapers, that's maybe half an answer. Getting rid of debt load is another part, going interactive with Internet-based streaming "TV News" channels is another.
Why give them even pennies?
Send sand or kitty litter.
"I'd not only go all cash in a heartbeat I'd seek out vendors who prefer to deal in cash not wanting the costs of credit transactions to be hidden in the display prices of the goods and services."
We have a couple of all-cash merchants we know. Prices are lower. One of 'em, a restaurant, just put an ATM in the corner and leaves it up to you.
Both take checks from locals; just like the old days.
OT, but did anyone else notice this atrocity today?
Senator: Use of faulty insurance data 'pervasive'
"Two-thirds of health insurers used flawed database that overcharged patients, says senator"
Yuan,
I refuse to submit to a DNA test despite our obviously being related.
Don't forget to take every transaction/interest free cash advance and always carry any balance that carries rates lower than the 3mo Treasury.
yuan...lol..
Marketwatch Headline:
"Nike profit stomped 30%"
I am so surprised about that one. Gangster shoes were the last bubble.
sm_landlord (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Wed, 6/24/2009 - 2:13 pm
"I'd not only go all cash in a heartbeat I'd seek out vendors who prefer to deal in cash not wanting the costs of credit transactions to be hidden in the display prices of the goods and services."
And give up on online purchases? That would be a problem for a lot of people and a lot of reasons.
Good point. i was wrong. I'd still need to use some credit lines.
I read somewhere recently that the companies behind the branded cards (like Target) are in trouble and may exit.
My blog?
Seriously, rising costs, increasing charge offs, narrower margins. The business is shaking out. I do expect what Walmart has planned to also be a game changer as they will do to credit what they did with retail. It won't be pretty or fair but TPTB won't be in any position to object.
I assist an elderly gentleman in managing his meager finances. He has one remaining active CC which he uses almost soley for paying medical bills. It is a Sears card, but really a Chase product and his minimum payment has been 2% of a fairly large balance ($6000). He actually has been paying a bit more than that. Chase has dropped his limit three times in the last year, each time such that it is just a few dollars above his balance.
If the minimum payment is raised to 5%, I will recommend that he abandon this card altogether. He can use his debit card for necessary purchases.
One potential problem...his checking account was with WaMu, EDIT: (now) owned by CHASE!
Does anybody see a problem here?
Why give them even pennies?
Send sand or kitty litter.
HomeGnome--
Exxxxxcellllentt.
Fortress says it won't pay second-quarter dividend
Fortress says it won't pay second-quarter dividend - MarketWatch
Hello, FBI. They will have to investigate the powdery substance in the envelope. Pennies may save some problems.
I normally use my CCs like a debt card for the cashback feature but wanted a little more cushion in the saving account. I just like the idea of paying my taxes with CC debt. It kind of brings it all around full circle
Put on your tin foil hats for this one, folks. Bob Chapman lays out a sinister plot by TPTB to destroy Western economies to complete their looting and install one world govt. Scary thing is, it may be true!
The Fed The Ultimate Zombie - The International Forecaster
"I do expect what Walmart has planned to also be a game changer as they will do to credit what they did with retail."
I haven't heard what WalMart is up to, but that reminds me of a possible issue with Costco. Since they only accept Amex, they are extremely vulnerable to Amex problems. If Amex starts pulling cards, they will have to figure something else out fast.
Oddly, I just noticed they installed those old-fashioned pneumatic cash delivery tubes in my local Costco... maybe they are anticipating handling a lot of cash in the near future???
Apparently, the age-old pasttime of taping a biz-reply envelope to a brick has been superseded by postal regs allowing them to toss it into the trash. Sad really.
EDIT: Some folks disagree:
Mail a brick to junk mailers using paid postage - Creative tips with dealing with spammers and bulk mailers
I'm not so sure. In some circles US currency is considered more toxic than most unidentified white powders.
I never use ATM check cards anymore and anytime I am upgraded to one I call and request that I be downgraded back to a regular ATM that requires a PIN number.
I had my card stolen and in a 2 hour period over 10k runup on it including 4 1500 charges at a single large retailer. I did get all the money back but in the meantime my account was over-drawn.
We put everything possible on our credit card and pay in full at the end of the month.
I have purchased a car, piano and eye surgery on CC for the benefits. Don't forget that for non-business cards most CC only give you 10k worth of points per month. So split larger purchases up onto several cards. We learned that the hard way after buying our car.
Re: paying taxes by CC. We tried that and there is a 3% convenience fee, so it's not worth it.
Whatever, "they" evacuated the Federal Building here in Columbia, SC a month or so ago because someone left behind a burrito!
Fear.
24/7/365.
GDD9000 (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/24/2009 - 4:44 pm
"pavel - I know it seems absurd, but when you see that type of behavior, you cant really know what you are witnessing.
I pay for every purchase on credit. Why? Because I get 1.5% cashback on every single purchase. Plus, it is much easier to account for every penny of my spending. However, I pay my bill in full every month, month after month. And if I lost my job, I could still do that. "
Of course, that does make sense.
"because someone left behind a burrito!"
Were they afraid of gas?
paying taxes by CC. We tried that and there is a 3% convenience fee, so it's not worth it.
My county started charging the fee because the banks were paying escrowed property taxes via credit card to collect on the transaction fee and the interchange. But there was no charge for in-person credit card transactions.
sm_landlord (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Wed, 6/24/2009 - 2:25 pm
"I do expect what Walmart has planned to also be a game changer as they will do to credit what they did with retail."
I haven't heard what WalMart is up to, but that reminds me of a possible issue with Costco. Since they only accept Amex, they are extremely vulnerable to Amex problems. If Amex starts pulling cards, they will have to figure something else out fast.
Mr. Price is a sharp cookie. They had Discover for years. At least at first Amex paid them to be their card. Even now I get 2% on many/most purchases [Executive account]. If Amex balks there are a dozen suitors waiting to pimp themselves to the almighty warehouse store.
// When I was in Amsterdam, every place that took credit cards wanted an additional 4% for transaction fee.
And no, coffeeshops don't take credit cards; cash only. //
Erm, was that a coffeeshop coffeeshop or an Amsterdam coffeeshop?
Gotta justify all of the new security measures and spending somehow.
sm_landlord,
The insurance thing is an outrage...too bad it's buried under the other piles of horse manure flowing from the govt and business sectors. It could be an opportunity for class action trial lawyers, though. Healthcare pricing is one of the most fouled up parts of the US economy...even more so than the defense industry. That's saying a lot.
"now, if they started doing widespread $x for cash, $x+y for credit, I might consider going cash. But pulling cash from the ATM is such a pain"
Write a check at the point of purchase. Yeah, I know - quaint.
Re: mailing back junk in CC envelopes. I'm glad to know I'm not the only twisted a-hole that does this. Thanks for the pennies idea. Learn something new every day.
"Write a check at the point of purchase. Yeah, I know - quaint."
I saw somebody do that a couple of weeks ago.
love the idea-
Also if you are pissed with an existing card leave a couple of cents credit balance and force them to mail a statement.
"Write a check at the point of purchase. "
Have you tried that recently? Got five forms of ID? And you might get punched by the people behind you in line...
Barney Frank wants Fannie to blow condo lending standards.
"Thanks for the pennies idea."
Just make sue that you use zinc pennies and not the valuable copper ones
//Write a check at the point of purchase. Yeah, I know - quaint. //
I've always been repulsed by the smugness of the Visa ads ridiculing people trying to pay with cash or a check at a cashier station.
Of course I just checked my latest statement from Chase- they didn't raise my minimum, but I fully expect to see it coming.
The do have some cover in the recent changes, but once again, they are applying them stupidly.
The biggest problem they have is all of the balance transfer legacy balances on essentially dead card (um, like mine- I think I can actually find the physical card in my safe soemwhere), with puny interest rates. I have an entire portfolio of 1.9 to 3.9% until I pay it off cards running balance down over essentially a five to six year period. (That's you too Zitibank).
Nothing like cheap money to finance whatever I feel like. So, with a higher monthly and a fixed low interest rate, these will amortize at lightspeed. And I will have to sell some of that pesky profitable glod to make the higher bills. Ah well.
Ebay will make some more criminally large profits off me.
Sigh. All good scams come to end someday. As for default rates going skyhigh, geez, can't read an unemployment report, can we in the banking business (Advanta, Crapitol One)!
Someday this war's gonna end...
Dead Shtick (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/24/2009 - 2:37 pm
Barney Frank wants Fannie to blow condo lending standards.
You have no idea how that read the first time through.
You read it right the first time.
Elephants and Asses
Trampling the Masses
Does it matter who is stealing from you?
Red or Blue?
"because someone left behind a burrito!"
Were they afraid of gas?"
I could empathize with that. Some people can render a version of Good Night Irene after a few large ones.
Oops, I made a mistake.
The burrito was left at a bank downtown.
My apologies for the error.
'Suspicious Object' at Bank Turns Out to Be Burrito | wltx.com
When I worked at a department store I would always have at least a couple people a week give a minimum payment on a balance of $3000+. And this was a card that charged 25% interest.
Never missed a payment in my life, typically run small balances (<$100), but Citi bumped my APR to 31% two months ago.
Clearly, all these lending facilities have dramatically eased the credit crunch.
A thought though: In the event of a large-scale cyber attack, retail trade will be vulnerable. Perhaps not even cash will be available except what is at hand, much less electronic transactions. There's a plot idea for Nova. Perhaps a massive solar flare would have a similar result.
I know, that's not all that would be affected.
Since we're on the subject, I guess everyone knows by now that Advanta has completely exited the CC business.
I got a note from them last month, saying that everyone's cards were canceled, effective immediately.
The reason given was that could no longer get funding to float the throughput.
Green Shootz.
sm_landlord wrote:
Just make sue that you use zinc pennies and not the valuable copper ones
Starting in 2009, they are steel with a copper colored zinc coating!!
Even zinc is too expensive for minting 1/100 of a bernanke buck.
I don't think the merchant is a player in this- they accept credit cards because they are the cheaper alternative to accepting cash/check and losing business. The perks are being paid out of the hide of the borrowers and unwittingly us "deadbeats" have become co-conspirators of the credit card industry. I don't know if the CC intended it that way but they have created a sub group who will provide political support in their fight with regulators.
Ob Zappa reference: Is that a Bernanke penny, or is that a real Mexican penny?
pavel,
2012 is always getting picked on..
google search page 1
NASA - Solar Storm Warning
http://www.examiner.com/x-2912-Seattle-Exopolitics-Examiner~y2009m4d1-2012-may-bring-the-perfect-storm--solar-flares-systems-collapse
http://www.prisonplanet.com/2012-may-bring-the-%E2%80%9Cperfect-storm%E2%80%9D-%E2%80%93-solar-flares-systems-collapse.html
You know the gaming of the credit card companies by the smarter class was incredible too. Consider the implicit losses of a $10,000 1.9% till you pay it off with a 2% minimum payment- the first months bill looks like this:
Payment Principal: $ 177.17 Interest: $ 16.58 Balance: $ 9822.83
Now in a year you would have paid off $2144.55
leaving a balance of $ 7854.45 and generating $179.50 in interest.
Now, you drop your payment back down to the that minimum payment of $157.09 and extend your payments again.
Jeez, yet another year of crappy profits ensues!!
A grand total of $ 140.99 in interest earned on that balance!!!
WTF!!! You get to hit reset again every month essentaily with a 2% minimum.
I figured this was going to end six or seven years ago- but nooooo they kept doing it!!!
Now, that is how you make a tail of business that is death to your profits when they default having had your money for years at trifling rates.
This model was beyond stupid, yet pursued with great vigor.
The Heloc scam was the same deal.
Someday this war's gonna end....
"I don't think the merchant is a player in this- they accept credit cards because they are the cheaper alternative to accepting cash/check and losing business."
One of my local liquor stores just adds an extra charge if you use a CC.
The pitch to retailers was that people spend more on impulse purchases if you accept CCs, and it seems that they are correct.
people spend more on impulse purchases if you accept CCs
or if they've been hitting the "hopium" pipe...
Seems the CC companies are running their own version of the the stress test. The consequences are predictable. Good credit will not only flee but badmouth them for a generation and formerly captive reliable borrowers will default. I just don't see the revenue optimization calculus they are executing.
I just don't see the revenue optimization calculus they are executing.
You gotta look under the TARP.
Mid-Michigan - Perhaps 10-15 percent of small retailers around here won't take checks any more. Too many bad ones written.
creditcriminalslovetarp (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/24/2009 - 5:53 pm
"2012 is always getting picked on..
google search page 1"
Some opinions I've read - maybe knowledgeable - is that such an event would be observable with enough lead time to protect our grids. I dunno. I'm still getting over my astonishment at our Metro Rail catastrophe here in DC, in which there was a three year lead time to fix the problems, but the warning was ignored - because, they say, there wasn't enough money.
Geomagnetic storm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Unintended consequences"
don't forget this medium killing the recording industry and a good chunk of retail...
i guess the dot-commers had it half-right
@GDD9000 & pavel, every day I stop at the store and get a large coffee and a USA Today paper I see others paying for small (less than $10) amounts all the time. I understand both sides but what KILLS me is when the line is long and not moving beacuse a card is declined. I can not tell you how many times I have seen this over the last year at the same store, it is at least 2-3 times a week and once they opend another line just for CC purchases because of this. I asked if the CC machine was acting up clerk said no, it just takes to long for the people to try and find one that will go though. Sad so sad.
I've been doing that for years. Put shredded paper in the prepaid envelope so the company pays for the return postage.
I don't want to use cc online. How else can I contribute to kcoop for all the great work he does to keep the comment section going?