Pigged from previous thread with very short half-life:
ShadowInventory wrote:
Oh for pete's sake would anyone think that the IMF bonds are better than the US?
Isn't at least half of the IMF funded by the U.S.? It does smack of politics, like most Russian financial jawboning.
I do think the dollar will lose reserve status some time in the next 20 years, but I don't know what is going to replace it. I doubt the world will want to put all of its eggs in any one currency so there probably won't be a move from dollar to Yuan or Euro. My guess would be a basket of currencies and/or commodities, possibly denominated in SDRs, IF other countries start carrying more of the water at the IMF.
Let me echo Rosenberg here and ask: How long until major exporting economies, recognizing the USA has acted unilaterally in its own interest, begin to devalue against the dollar? And, in the event, what will our ex/im stats look like then?
When Congresswoman Kaptur questioned Bernanke 2006.06.04 about the % foreign financing of the deficit he mentioned that is was 'less' based on trade.
He also gave a number of I'll check and get back to you answers. It was a public hearing. Were would the those answers be published, and how would one go about finding them?
ShadowInventory, the higher oil price is definitely going to push up the trade deficit . The average import price was only $46 per barrel in April - so that number will move higher over the next couple of months
We had a discussion of SDR's here a couple days ago. I read 3 articles about it and I still am not sure what they are... It sounds sort of like a CD or a savings account, except that I suppose the IMF loans the money out to underdeveloped countries who never pay it back... there is also an argument that the IMF money destroys poor countries.... I'm sure the IMF or the World Bank or the EU central bank would all like to usurp the Fed, and I sure hope that Obama doesnt let that happen...
That article on the oil price also said that the inventories will drop fast if Opec holds it's current output and there is economic improvement... That's a pretty big IF though...
I'm not sure with the reasoning regarding the move to "an alternate currency, but not tomorrow, probably in twenty years".
I've thought about it.
Either it is done soon as the dollar continues to lose value despite being the de facto reserve currency, the currency of oil and commodities, and creditors. Or, it doesn't happen in twenty years because there is no other catalysts big enough to move china, EU, russia, and japan (and the rest) to move away from it. I agree that a basket of currencies and commodities is compelling. In fact this is what Russia & China both appear to be doing. Russia a little more gold heavy, and china a little more diversified between owning the mines, and commodities, and diversifying their currency.
But why twenty years, why not 5 years, or 24 months?
USD will still be part of the basket, maybe even have 51% share. Just not 100%.
I do think it is more likely than not that USD declines twice, once with creditors demanding higher interest for our borrowing, and twice for reserve currency shifting out of dollars. The first coincides with inflation, the second further exacerbates inflation.
I suppose the IMF loans the money out to underdeveloped countries who never pay it back.
There is also an argument that the IMF money destroys poor countries.
It's not an argument. It's the MO of neocolonialism. The global "development" framework was a framework for economic exploitation of resource center nations under the guise of lending for development policy. Only the "tiger" nations that didn't accept that comparative advantage meant importing finished goods in return for strip mining for bauxite developed successfully. Everyone who did otherwise was stuffed with debt to the gills and then raped for resources and later, sweatshop labor.
We had a discussion of SDR's here a couple days ago. I read 3 articles about it and I still am not sure what they are
My understanding is that they are a synthetic currency made up of the dollar, pound, euro, and yen. Really just an accounting tool to keep track of who has donated what to the IMF. I think most criticism of the IMF comes not from their lending, but the onerous conditions that come along with the loan. They impose austerity on other countries in a form the U.S. or U.K. would never accept.
The eminent legal historian who on this blog goes by "1 currency now -yogi" declared a comment of mine "BS" and demanded a legal citation on a fairly recent previous thread devoted to the worth of a college education. (The subject of my comment was a 1971 Supreme Court Case regarding employer discrimination, and I said the decision was a principal reason why employers now require college diplomas for just about any job worth having. 1 currency now -yogi's response: "BS.") Herewith is a reference to the 1971 decision from an op-ed piece by Ruth Marcus in today's Washington Post, written in the context of the nomination of Ms. Sotomayor to the Court.
Ms. Marcus writes: "Under federal anti-discrimination law, employers . . . can be found liable for discrimination even in the absence of evidence that they intended to discriminate. If an employment practice (here, a test) appears neutral but has a 'disparate impact' on minorities—if it is 'fair to form but discriminatory in operation' in the words of a 1971 Supreme Court ruling—the employer must justify the need for this practice. "
Given this legal never-never land, it is not difficult to understand the reason why employers no longer administer tests to prospective employees and instead substitute a requirement of a college degree.
OT, but what's with the rise in base metals? Brazil is signing contracts for iron ore that are 40-50% less than last year, but commodity stocks are skying. Mortgage applications are no green shoots today. And the rally goes on.
Citigroup releases the details of their impending screw job of the US taxpayer.
Currently, Citi said, its ability to take advantage of tax credits from past losses could be "substantially limited" if there is a change of ownership for the firm. The company said the crux of the plan is to discourage any current shareholders from raising their Citi stake to more than 5%, or any prospective shareholders from buying 5% or more of the firm's common shares.
Gee, tax consequences? Nothing about saving Pandit's job? Jeez. More at Marketwatch.
But why twenty years, why not 5 years, or 24 months?
20 years is my vague sense of how long the dollar can last. Things look bad for the U.S. now, but within 20 years, the Medicare and SS bombs blow up and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq will have had time to drain all the rest of our resources. The end could become clear before then, but inertia may keep the reserve dollar going longer it deserves. There are a lot of technical details involved in moving away form the petro-dollar, BIS settlements, etc.
They impose austerity on other countries in a form the U.S. or U.K. would never accept.
They also push the crack on you in the first place, and don't forget the complicty of the West's political apparatus in all this. If you were a venial dictator, the CIA sent guns and torturers. You spent the loan money shouting "Christian Dior me!" and it was all good. When the money ran out, you made painful concessions for the public of your nation and came to terms with your creditors and let industrial combines ruin your nation and exploit your people. You personally lost nothing and you and all your relatives skimmed as usual.
If you were conscientious and tried to better your nation, you were branded communist and the CIA had you assassinated while a bunch of Palino-Fascists back in America waved their arms and barked like dogs. Yee-haw, git 'er done. Gotta fight them commies, and the best way to show you're a loyal American patriot is to blindly accept labels and to support the heroic cops when they beat down the negro-libbo-lesbo-hippies who don't understand "my country right or wrong".
This system of economic exploitation under the guise of national security and economic development would later spread to America.
If oil prices are the driver in the increase of trade debt, then Drill Baby Drill would be beneficial right now. Real jobs not faux gov jobs, a reduction of foreign oil dependence and a reduction of foreign debt. Green energy is still a very big black hole.
dr munch (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 9:21 am
OT, but what's with the rise in base metals? Brazil is signing contracts for iron ore that are 40-50% less than last year, but commodity stocks are skying.
What if the underlying asset is staying static in value and the denominative unit is being printed at hyperinflational rates, but only given out to banks and other speculators?
Damn B_R, tell us how you really feel...not that I really disagree with your synopsis, if not the tone.
I got pigged on the last thread but: Dirk, yes, I was being sloppy, I know the fed is the only buyer and only the buyer, so the market, but not the maker.
The rise in oil really surprises me...I feel like this is simply another round of oil speculation based on green shoots, not a real uptick in consumption. How many tankers can you store the stuff in out in the ocean? Were there really that many idle tankers? Can you really build them that fast? What say the Oil Drum fanatics?
The Congressional Budget Office estimated the bill could spur sales of about 625,000 vehicles; backers are hoping for 1 million. The clunker being traded in will be crushed or recycled, meaning it will have no trade-in value beyond the voucher. Of the 25 million vehicles estimated to qualify for the voucher, most will be trucks: even 15 years ago, only five models of midsize sedans managed just 18 m.p.g. The trade-ins have to have been registered and insured for at least the past year.
While experts continue debating whether Ford Motor Co. can survive without the federal money propping up GM and Chrysler, the company is being bolstered by an increasing number of Americans who are doing more than buying Ford's "we're different" message, the Detroit Free Press reports. They are buying Ford's cars and trucks.
Ford gained more than two full percentage points of market share in the United States last month. What's more, Ford achieved the gain while lowering incentives, such as cash-back rebates, by nearly 30 percent. The positive momentum underscores why Ford contends it can make it through the economic downturn without federal assistance...In a campaign partially coordinated by Ford, dealers began running personal letters in their hometown papers about how Ford has distinguished itself both with high-quality, fuel-efficient products and from the other Detroit Three automakers by not taking federal loans.
We can just forget about all these forecasters, analysts that sit in front of the computer speculating the oil prices because of a tank capsize or a weather storm. Everything is being controlled from the middle east, they are the ones controlling the prices, total control.
Comrade Scott as I understand it, only the continued demand for gasoline is currently supporting oil prices. If there is a point where gasoline consumption breaks, there should be a sharp drop in oil prices reflecting the overabundance of unrefined crude and other oversupplied distillates.
Somehow, I don't think we're heading for a utopian future. Here's an outdated view of the future of work, year 2062:
George Jetson works three hours a day and three days a week.......... Daily life is characterized as being comically leisurely because of the incredible sophistication and number of labor saving devices, which occasionally break down with humorous results. George's work day consists of pressing a single computer button. Despite this, characters often complain of exhausting hard labor and difficulties of living with the remaining inconveniences.
The cash for clunkers deal is a huge sham. By paying people to CONsume with borrowed money, we will actually increase oil usage over what would have been consumed in a free market.
It's a total joke that this bill is being sold as "green."
Comrade Scott (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 9:42 am
Damn B_R, tell us how you really feel...not that I really disagree with your synopsis, if not the tone.
I started as a extremely conservative security policy analyst.
Unfortunately, I actually believed it, unlike your typical "conservative" in my peer group, who was either a useful idiot with star-spangled eyes and the analytic depth of a bird bath, or strictly in it because being Republican meant you could be an asshole greedy racist douche and proud of it.
I consequently became what is termed an "able but unwilling soldier".
Comrade Coinz (homepage, profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 9:49 am
Yes, I think that about covers it. I am not sure that is how the system was intended, but it seems that is the way it has worked.
I think Acheson knew exactly what he was getting. Dulles without question did what he did because he was a greedy, amoral fool. They're the real authors of the neo-colonial paradigm.
I wonder how many of those clunker vouchers will actually be used. You have to turn in your paid off clunker for a new vehicle and either have the cash or qualify for a loan... and have income to pay the loan... Plus meeting the requirements for the voucher in the first place... And you have to have proof of registration and insurance? Obviously the Congress has not been out in Clunkerland recently....
B-R- Succinct. And Dr Munch (and others) the relative prices of various commodities as priced in differing currencies is not OT, in a way, that IS the topic, so kudos for adding your thoughts to the thread.
My take: most commodities (and certainly oil) serve a dual role. They have industrial uses, and thus react to the normal laws of supply and demand. But they also have a role as a "store of value," in that they can be stored in anticipation of future value. This role is sort of a working definition of speculation, in that the holder places a bet that he would rather have the stored good than the saved cash.
Now, soybeans and coffee and such are renewable, in that the supply can be replenished over time ... if you hoard so much that you drive supply down and price up, growers and producers will work to increase supply. Oil is trading differently right now, in that there seems to be a finite supply - although much remains below ground, we know of no way to "plant more."
If the Saudis and others were able to convincingly demonstrate the ability to surge supply, speculation would become less attractive, but I am not alone in my doubts as to the ability (not to mention willingness) of the major exporters to flip the switch and drive up supply.
And see Jesse's report today on supply, demand, and currency fluctuation for a more full explanantion of Byz's point about static value of an underlying asset, depending on how you choose to measure value.
Byzantine_Ruins (homepage, profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 9:00 am
Damn B_R, tell us how you really feel...not that I really disagree with your synopsis, if not the tone.
I started as a extremely conservative security policy analyst.
Unfortunately, I actually believed it, unlike your typical "conservative" in my peer group, who was either a useful idiot with star-spangled eyes and the analytic depth of a bird bath, or strictly in it because being Republican meant you could be an asshole greedy racist douche and proud of it.
Hell hath no fury like the analyst operating in a world of bad faith.
I always thought the failure of the third world to prosper was due to corruption and theft of the treasury by the people in charge, and by the failure to build infrastructure and educate the populace... There is a list available on the net of the top thieves (heads of state) of all time... Suharto heads the list at 35 billion....
"unlike your typical "conservative" in my peer group, who was either a useful idiot with star-spangled eyes and the analytic depth of a bird bath, or strictly in it because being Republican meant you could be an asshole greedy racist douche and proud of it. "
LOL BR, you just summed up the entire GOP in my neck of the woods....
I always thought the failure of the third world to prosper was due to corruption and theft of the treasury by the people in charge, and by the failure to build infrastructure and educate the populace
The value of the SDR was initially defined as equivalent to 0.888671 grams of fine gold—which, at the time, was also equivalent to one U.S. dollar. After the collapse of the Bretton Woods system in 1973, however, the SDR was redefined as a basket of currencies,today consisting of the euro, Japanese yen, pound sterling, and U.S. dollar. The U.S. dollar-value of the SDR is posted daily on the IMF's website. It is calculated as the sum of specific amounts of the four currencies valued in U.S. dollars, on the basis of exchange rates quoted at noon each day in the London market.
The U.S. dollar is currently valued at about 0.65 SDRs (a 35% decrease in 36 years):
You are educating yourself Basel, correct? And you have been working at least part time since age 16.... So you are succeeding... The system works if you do.... The problems started when the politicians started teaching some of the populace that they didnt need to do that, just wait for their check in the mail...
ShadowInventory (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 9:06 am
I always thought the failure of the third world to prosper was due to corruption and theft of the treasury by the people in charge, and by the failure to build infrastructure and educate the populace... There is a list available on the net of the top thieves (heads of state) of all time... Suharto heads the list at 35 billion....
Remove "third" and I think most would agree that the sentence is still true.
I disagree that the world in total is failing. It is what it is, and the standard of living now is higher than it has ever been. The population is larger than it has ever been and it is growing. Science and technology provide methods to increase current production and an even higher standard of living... Go out and work for it, I did....
ShadowInventory (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 10:06 am I always thought the failure of the third world to prosper was due to corruption and theft of the treasury by the people in charge, and by the failure to build infrastructure and educate the populace.
It's true. And the people who did it were carefully selected, and the ones who weren't properly venial were culled out, and their ability to suck all the money out of the programs due to inadequate controls, and the way that the development was structured as loans and not grants, and the kinds of projects it was squandered on, were all fully conscious decisions, as were the kinds of austerity programs imposed. Then you were educated stupid so you'd go along with it, even when they did it to your own country.
........if we no longer produce anything competitively that anyone wants or needs, where is the hope?...... That's right, we're turning this 'big old boat' around through the busy work of the "service sector" - kind of like a monopoly game.........may as well listen to "Truth thru George Jetson".
Still higher now - coming soon - Cat Scans that can detect colon cancer so you dont have to undergo invasive scoping - Cancer treatment using gold particles and targeted infrared heat - Circulatory problems treated with silver nanoparticles... Nano tech in general is going to change the world... And I still want the self driving vehicle but I dont expect to get it from Govt Motors...
It appears some here still buy into the "American Dream" that if you just work hard enough, you can make it. I call BS...What percentage of the jobs in this country are go nowhere, low paying, yet perform necessary societal functions? I don't care how educated a nation we become, someone still has to sweep the streets, pick up the trash, clean the sewers, etc...
Well BR your statements suppose that there is some giant conspiracy which I doubt could be pulled off in a country this size... I think the current state of affairs is the result of the politicians trying to get re-elected by spending money... and by the govt bureaucracy not doing it's job, which is the normal thing for them...
Do you know how the IMF is really governed? I don't. For example, there were many articles back in April about the U.S. Congress having to approve IMF gold sales. Is the IMF controlled by the U.S. Congress?
This article in the WSJ suggests that the U.S. Congress has the power to dissolve the IMF.
As far as I can tell, the IMF is primarily an organ of the U.S. government despite the 17% quota level. How it really operates is kind of murky to me.
Comrade Kristina (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 9:19 am
I don't care how educated a nation we become, someone still has to sweep the streets, pick up the trash, clean the sewers, etc...
Kristina, the Western world has wanted to jettison the demands of the flesh / material world practically since it began. I just look at this delusion as a new form of mind-body dualism with a little gnosticism thrown in especially for the technically-inclined. Of course the religious framework is different this time.
Yes yes, and bisphenol and soy protein providing free breast augmentations. We no longer need to manufacture cordage since the stuff is growing right in our skin courtesy of Morgellons. We get our dietary iron right from the mine. What a wonderful life!
Kristina most people dont stay in entry level jobs for long, they work their way up... it's a lifelong project to educate yourself and develop skills, and to manage your life.... And it's my job to do that for me, nobody else'... In the US you have liberty to do what you want and you get a free education through high school. That's your advantage, and people want to come here from all over the world especially for the liberty... Then do what you want or what you can and get the results... It's not a matter of winning or losing or comparing yourself with other people - you cant be them and they cant be you... Do your best and no regrets... Otherwise make do on whatever the handout rate is...
racial (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 10:13 am
Is Bahamut Lagoon a common pastime in the security analysis world?
The titles of that generation are apotheotic designs. After that, increasing display hardware capacity and increasing budgets and cultural exposure led to new constraints on design that legislated against quality. "Bad graphics make good games". Almost all modern technical design worth seeing is taking place on handhelds. You'll never see another Dai Senryaku VII level design released for a major settop box. FF Tactics Advance, Advance Wars, they could never fly on modern "front line" hardware. Even handhelds are getting too project-price constrained for good design since PSP.
A security analyst is a game designer with a tie. I took the tie off.
C. Coinz, all the details are at the imf.org site, but off the top of my head, it seems like all the founding members, including the U.S., have to vote to approve any sale of gold by a huge supramajority (perhaps 90%) because the gold is what they contributed when the organization was formed.
To say the U.S. controls the IMF would not be accurate, though, since, as mentioned above, the U.S. currently has only a 17.1% interest in the IM, which is expressed in SDRs, and thus a 17.1% vote. What political sway the U.S. has over other members is not something I pretend to know. I will say, though, that you hardly ever see crowds in a recipient nation burning the German flag.
The issue of IMF gold sales comes up every few years.
SI, a full 50% of the jobs in this country pay less than 32K per year. That means half of our workers fill menial, low paying positions. You seem to be under the impression if they just educate themselves they could all move up...That just isn't the case, there are only a limited amount of good paying jobs in this country, the rest, fight over the scraps...
I disagree. The problem now is the same 40 years ago. Most Americans have no discipline to accomplish the American Dream, it is still there and very alive. Look to legal and illegal immigrants for the key. Americans feel to privileged.
I was greatly chagrined when Hero's Quest was remade with point and click interface. I miss the days of typing "Hut of brown now sit down". Definitely not simple nostalgia.
So if every person in this country strived their very best to "make it" and by some miracle they all did, who picks up the trash? Those jobs would still need to be filled. The fact is not everyone has the capacity for higher education. Some are good with their hands, some are good at teaching etc. The problem occurs when we marginalize their contributions...
With a the greatness of innovations being spouted here, where are the moral and ethical innovations that would allow society to evolve past consumerism?
The American Dream has become, "how can I put one over on some schmuck"? No downside there for socialized losses, huh?
A big part of our problem, as a society is that we conflate standard of living with quality of life. It's the common mistake that quantity equates to value, writ large.
EIA just released weekly oil data. Crude stocks down 4.4 million barrels for the week, estimates looked for an 800k drawdown. Oil is gonna shoot to the moon on this one. To the moon Alice!!
We would be a better nation if everybody did strive for success but in stead we used social enabling and excuses. Who picks up the trash? Haven't we cured that for 40+ years with illegal immigration?
Here, if you are not satisfied with your work and income, you can change that if you want. You cant do that in a planned economy. And govt interference in the marketplace distorts things, so you have people making a lot of money for doing essentially nothing, which breeds discontent among those who actually do work. I changed paths several times not because of money but because I was no longer interested in the current job... I probably would have more money now if I didnt do that, but I 'made the path as I walked' and when you get used to being in control of yourself then it's not a problem or scary, it's sailing your own ship... That's the most satisfying thing of life...
Wife and I have been caring for an elderly family member and he passed on last night in peace... Makes me even more aware that your wealth is your time of consciousness, nothing else... Enjoy the journey....
SI, sorry for your loss, I cared for my Mother after her stroke for almost two years until she passed...Indeed, it reminds one of their own short trip on this globe...
Lobbyist Ben Dover (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 9:31 am reply Ignore user If oil prices are the driver in the increase of trade debt, then Drill Baby Drill would be beneficial right now. Real jobs not faux gov jobs, a reduction of foreign oil dependence and a reduction of foreign debt. Green energy is still a very big black hole.
Lobbyist,
Agree that there are certain biasis (agri-bus) toward corn-ethanol for green energy which is a blackhole (more input of energy required to what you get out plus subsidy which distorts food and feed prices). But, there are other endeavors (solar/wind/grid/fusion/nuclear) that could also use more dollars--and I don't regard the simplistic belief that domestic petrol 1) creates so many jobs (see bls stats for this sector), 2) will lower petrol costs, 3) will wean us of foreign suppliers while keeping our dollars at home.
Petro-chem is a pretty small although well-paying job sector. Amount of daily petrol intake for America would not be dented by domestic production increases and likewise global production/price not impacted at all by domestic--and that oil would be sold on a global market in any case.
You could sixtuple the employment for oil and only make up a month of losses.
--bh
NAICS 324000 - Petroleum and Coal Products Manufacturing
All Occupations top
Employment Estimates Wage Estimates
SOC Code Number Occupation Title Employment (1) Percent of Total Median Hourly Mean Hourly Mean Annual (2) Mean RSE (3)
00-0000 All Occupations 116,900 100.00% $25.65 $28.79 $59,880 2.2 %
-- Here, if you are not satisfied with your work and income, you can change that if you want. --
Here, if you are not satisfied with your work or income, you can change one if you want.
Fixed it. And I think the same goes for planned economies.
Comrade Kristina (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 9:34 am
So if every person in this country strived their very best to "make it" and by some miracle they all did, who picks up the trash? Those jobs would still need to be filled. The fact is not everyone has the capacity for higher education. Some are good with their hands, some are good at teaching etc. The problem occurs when we marginalize their contributions...
Again it's the delusion we can separate from the flesh, or that it's a good idea to do so. We devalue it in our own lives too... witness the physical shape we're in as an aggregate, or how political/economic interests shape a city in unsustainable ways. The "knowledge worker" is our new idol and we need to convince ourselves that his work is all high-value. The only way to do that (since all economic value is relative) is by devaluing other work. We're seeing the wisdom of our approach too.
LBD, Not at all but the sense of entitlement has taught most Americans they are above what I call integrity jobs. Many I had in the early years. The lesson was I did not want to do them for my life career. From picking in the fields to the M club by 40 in a blue collar business. That to me is the American dream it is opportunity of hard work and self education.
We could build a lot more hydroelectric plants and nuclear too - France is mostly nuclear and they recycle the spent fuel rods instead of trying to store them...
...and by some miracle they all did, who picks up the trash?
In SI's view of the world, it would play out this way: There are no trash picker-uppers at a given price range which means people who want their trash collected would have to pay a higher rate and thus pull up the earning potential for said trash collectors. Now, the trash collectors magically live a better life because they are at the table of the American Dream instead of eating off of the floor underneath it. However, we see through the use of illegal immigrants in private cleaning companies that there are some real life variables in this simplistic formula that shoot that argument to pieces.
Hence, the argument should probably be: There never was an "American Dream" without "free land" (Taken land from the native inhabitants) or a destroyed global economy where the US was the only major player would could fill the void (Post-WW2). Now, we have little free land left to be given away as land-grants or taken without lengthy legal processes, and we cannot write our own check any longer in the global economy.
The way people in the past "made their way" was migrating away from power centers in hopes of building their own power centers (Colonialism), and now we are back to the way things were: You fight to take someone else's property and subjugate them... I think.
Per kristina,
If everyone had a PHD, who would do the menial jobs? I remember my Berkeley days of the early 1970s (1974 recession) where PHD's were happy to have a post office job...My generation, whether you think we were over educated or that the educational system was down graded) found that any job, no matter how lowly had to be acquired to survive. Like she said someone had to do these jobs...
One final point, no matter the degree of expertise required for a job, if you work a 40 hr a week job, you should earn aliveable wage...What is considered liveable is really the only issue...I personally believe that its a wage where you are a net contributor to society...whether through taxes or draw on the society's services...
jmho
ShadowInventory (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 10:44 am reply Ignore user We could build a lot more hydroelectric plants and nuclear too - France is mostly nuclear and they recycle the spent fuel rods instead of trying to store them...
Comrade Kristina (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 9:43 am
RIF, I have pondered this matter many times throughout my life and I never seem to come up with any answer for it...
Me too. Do you think it is an accident that an economy grows and prospers with innovation and wealth when physical power and production is combined with efficient design, engineering and management, and flounders when either one disconnects from or belittles the other and recognizes and serves only its own interests?
O.K., Ken, my next post will be empty, per your test request.
.
Hi Ken, I did an empty post, and got the error message "comment field required," so that's o.k. I also tried entering 4 hard returns, and it still gives that message, so it recognized the difference. It's looking for visible ASCII characters, presumably? That suggests, to me, Liz' problem must be hard returns she's entering" unconsciously," rather than some obscure bug. Thanks, Ken.
SI, I understand your position, I just think there is more to it. Like I said, I've pondered this many times and never find an equitable solution...Until such time as Americans (or people in general) don't strive to find someone lower on the rung of life to sneer at, nothing changes.
ShadowInventory (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 10:20 am Well BR your statements suppose that there is some giant conspiracy which I doubt could be pulled off in a country this size...
Dean Gooderham Acheson (April 11, 1893 – October 12, 1971) was an American statesman and lawyer; as United States Secretary of State in the administration of President Harry S. Truman during 1949–1953, he played a central role in defining American foreign policy during the Cold War.[1] He likewise played a central role in the creation of many important institutions, including Lend Lease, the Truman Doctrine, the Marshall Plan, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, the International Monetary Fund, and the World Bank, together with the early organizations that later became the European Union and the World Trade Organization. His most famous decision was convincing Truman to intervene, in June 1950, in the Korean War. Historians have argued, "Dean Acheson was more than 'present at the creation' of the Cold War; he was a primary architect."[2]
Acheson came under heavy attack for his policies in China and for his defense of State Department employees accused during Senator Joseph McCarthy's anti-Communist investigations. Acheson was instrumental in framing U.S. policy toward Vietnam, persuading Truman to dispatch aid and advisors to French forces in Indochina, though in 1968 he finally counseled President Lyndon B. Johnson to negotiate for peace with North Vietnam. During the Cuban Missile Crisis, President John F. Kennedy called upon Acheson for advice, bringing him into the executive committee (ExComm), a strategic advisory group.
John Foster Dulles (February 25, 1888 – May 24, 1959) served as U.S. Secretary of State under President Dwight D. Eisenhower from 1953 to 1959. He was a significant figure in the early Cold War era, advocating an aggressive stance against communism around the world. He advocated support of the French in their war against the Viet Minh in Indochina and it is widely believed that he refused to shake the hand of Zhou Enlai at the Geneva Conference in 1954. He also played a great part in the CIA operations to overthrow the democratic Mossadegh government of Iran in 1953 (Operation Ajax) and the democratic Arbenz government of Guatemala in 1954 (Operation PBSUCCESS).
In 1953, Dulles was also involved in the covert overthrow of Mohammad Mossadeq, the ruler of Iran. Rumors of a Soviet takeover had surfaced due to the recent nationalization of the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company. In actuality, British diplomat Christopher Woodhouse had pitched the idea of a coup to President Eisenhower to try and regain British control of the oil company. He would later say, "Not wishing to be accused of using Americans to pull British chestnuts out of the fire, I decided to emphasize the communist threat [to Iran].
At this time in Guatemala, just 2.2 percent of the population owned over 70 percent of the country's land. Only 10 percent of the land was available for 90 percent of the population, most of whom were Indians. Most of the land held by the large landowners was unused. Arevalo was succeeded in another free election by Jacobo Arbenz who continued the reform process begun under Arevalo. Arbenz proposed to redistribute some of the unused land and make it available for the 90 percent to farm. Here is where the problem arose: United Fruit was one of the big holders of unused land in Guatemala. The pressure mounted against UFCO and finally the company complained to the many friends it had within the U.S. government including President Eisenhower and Secretary of State John Foster Dulles, saying that Guatemala had turned communist.
Besides the disputed issue of Arbenz's allegiance to Communism, UFCO was being threatened by the Arbenz government’s agrarian reform legislation and new Labor Code.[6] UFCO was the largest Guatemalan landowner and employer, and the Arbenz government’s land reform included the expropriation of 40% of UFCO land.[7] U.S. officials had little proof to back their claims of a growing communist threat in Guatemala[8], however the relationship between the Eisenhower administration and UFCO demonstrated the influence of corporate interest on U.S. foreign policy.[9] The American Secretary of State John Foster Dulles was an avowed opponent of Communism whose law firm of Sullivan and Cromwell[10] had represented United Fruit. His brother Allen Dulles was the director of the CIA, and was a board member of United Fruit. The brother of the Assistant Secretary of State for InterAmerican Affairs John Moors Cabot had once been president of United Fruit. Ed Whitman who was United Fruit’s principal lobbyist was married to President Eisenhower's personal secretary, Ann C. Whitman.[11] Many individuals who directly influenced U.S. policy towards Guatemala in the 1950s also had direct ties to UFCO.
EIA just released weekly oil data. Crude stocks down 4.4 million barrels for the week, estimates looked for an 800k drawdown. Oil is gonna shoot to the moon on this one. To the moon Alice!!
this drawdown was surprising to me... is it due to decreased production? my understanding was that we were using LESS oil not more...
BR, I've been reading the Shock Doctrine as my summer reading and although I knew of our meddling in Iran and others countries, I was shocked at the scope of it...
YTL, we were using less fuel although we have now hit summer vacation time when we use more fuel. I believe it is a combination of decreased production and increase in use. I still don't see it as sustainable. More job losses coming means less people having anywhere to drive.
If the US was imperialist we would be getting a lot of oil for free from Iraq right now. US could have taken over the globe at the end of WWII, but we didnt.... Instead we rebuilt Europe and Japan....
SI, free oil isn't in the best interests of large multi nationals...You are making the mistake of seperating the US government from corporatist interests...They are one in the same...
here is the real reason....taxes....sales tax, higher dmv fees, higher insurance rates...
snip
The Government stands to make at least £100million profit on the cash-for-bangers scheme thanks to the extra VAT generated.
But experts estimate the Treasury only breaks even or starts to make a tax 'profit' on cars worth £7,600 or over sold under scheme.
Many buyers taking advantage of the scheme are choosing to buy lower-cost runarounds from makers such as Hyundai, so their overall outlay can be as little as £4,000 for a brand new vehicle.
90% of car sales in UK from cash for clunkers program are from foreign auto makers...
Comrade Kristina (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 10:50 am
BR, I've been reading the Shock Doctrine as my summer reading and although I knew of our meddling in Iran and others countries, I was shocked at the scope of it...
Most Americans are strongly discouraged from learning anything about it. It's glossed over by the same media that brought us the Iraqi WMDs, and not supporting it fervently despite the fact that it contradicts every principle of the American Republic is seen as unpatriotic if you are a Republican. Look at tools like Ben Dover and Shadow Inventory, speaking of shallow like bird baths. How are you going to teach them anything? Facts are no burden to them.
We cold have all the ethanol we (from Brazil) need if we dropped the import tariff and the Ethanol subsidy. It can not even come close to have a cost effective motor fuel. Political games at taxpayer expense.
I have played with a wind generator and am in the slow process of building a wind generator from scrap. The few new items I will purchase will bust the bank on any possible cost effectiveness. The commercial wind generators are still far from cost effective. I hear the over drive gear packs are failing way early and the costs are not near projections.
For many years all I hear it will work if we dive head in a black hole. Makes zero sense when we are in an economic free fall. Stick with what works now and play when we have the stability as we have ignored. Green is not even close to logical.
If the US was imperialist we would be getting a lot of oil for free from Iraq right now....
Politics is as much about theater as it is about power and influence. Augustus could have taken a more appropriate and descriptive title than "First Citizen", but he didn't. The "Best trick of the Devil was to convince the world that He doesn't exist" kind of approach.
I think Roomba is coming out with a larger model for that.
Seriously though, there is no doubt that many of the worst jobs have been replaced by technology, sometimes for the betterment of human life. I'm thinking specifically of all the lives lost and injuries in some of the old post-industrial factories in America that are now done safely by machines.
however, there will always be "undesirable" jobs. Only here in Minnesota (Lake Wobegon to be exact) can all of the children be above average. Kristina's point here is spot on.
There is no question that one CAN work hard and make it to the top, however that possibility has weakened over the last 25 years or so. Social Class mobility has decreased significantly in the United States as we have matured as a country.
take a poor Native American woman from the Reservation and the daughter of a prior Senator in New York. is there any question of who has a higher chance of "making it". There is no question that the senator's daughter may "work hard". however there is also no question that she will need to work far less hard than her compadre to get to the same end result.
even with free education the odds are stacked against the poor. one reason? Because schools are typically funded through Property Taxes. And thus affluent areas end up paying more for their schools than do poorer areas. And thus, many of the best public schools are in affluent areas.
There are a limited number of desirable jobs. we all must "fight" for them. This isn't Lake Wobegon.
The US doesn't want their fingerprints on the taking of Iraq oit...With regard to rebuilding Japan and Europe, someone had to buy our goods, remember we were basically the only nation that did not have its production capacity destroyed during WWII...
If the US was imperialist we would be getting a lot of oil for free from Iraq right now.
Kristina made the point for me. The interests of the populace are not the same interests of the moneyed elite.
creditcriminal: i stand corrected. what a stupid bill.
yagij (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 11:01 am
Politics is as much about theater as it is about power and influence. Augustus could have taken a more appropriate and descriptive title than "First Citizen", but he didn't. The "Best trick of the Devil was to convince the world that He doesn't exist" kind of approach.
Lobbyist Ben Dover (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 10:00 am
Stick with what works now and play when we have the stability as we have ignored. Green is not even close to logical.
Disagree somewhat. It is clear that "green" energy at present is neither cost-effective nor sustainable without a lot of subsidy. However we need to encourage continuing research and development to aid in driving down costs by pushing down the learning curve and building expertise in the burgeoning field. That will not be accomplished by subsidizing inefficient biofuels to create fake demand to inflate the industry beyond a few small, focused players with significant innovation capabilities, and giving rebates to Joe Homeowner for installing "green" alternate power and buying hybrids and electrics.
Comrade Coinz (homepage, profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 9:25 am
"20 years is my vague sense of how long the dollar can last."
CC,
I think that since we've abandoned the gold standard, our currency is essentially backed by our assents and production of goods and services. As such, a new reserve currency requires an economy as big or bigger than ours. The Euro might be a possibility, but I suspect that if the Euro had real long term potential as a currency, then it wouldn't be needed in the first place; over the years, the economies of Southern Europe continually inflated their currencies to stimulate growth, whereas Germany pursued a low growth, low inflation approach to monetary policy. I think that Europe as a whole could have kept the relationship of their currencies constant if they'd all pursued identical monetary policies, but the policies optimal for the Germans never seemed to work that well for the Spanish, Italians, et al. As such, I think these differing requirements will result in many European countries eventually abandoning the Euro, and then we'll be looking at essentially the Franco-German economy, which in 20 years, will probably still be a fraction of the size of the US economy. China and/or India might be be possibilities, but we'll have to wait and see, and there may be other reasons why countries might choose not to use their currencies, China in particular.
xxxxx
No one picks up trash anymore..the lazy society we live in drops it on the ground hoping for the wind to blow it away...I personally watched the Baja Peninsula go from beautiful to ugly just on plastic bags alone within 2-3 years...
litter bugs irk me, fine them heavy and make them do manual labor along the roadside....the trash blowing around cities now is disgusting....I flip my middle finger to litter bugs! I've been in some great arguments with people who throw their trash on the ground less than 10 feet from a trashcan..
What's happening in bond land? The latest US govt bond auction was for $110 billion. Two years ago the average monthly bond auction total was $5 billion, $10 billion, numbers like that. The US govt finances its debt with bonds. A $2 trillion deficit means $2 trillion in new bonds needs to be issued. Approx. $200 billion a month.
Actually the trash guys in my area are union, IIRC, and make a pretty good living, by local standards.
I guess I have to side with SI, even though I'm a Democrat and probably way left of him. The world does reward hard work, given a little bit of luck, I'm living proof of that. Sometimes I'm amazed at how far I've come, considering how "at risk" my background was. Even my shitty jobs taught me something, over the years. And I say that with an attitude of gratitude.
But we could even the playing field a lot more in America, it seems to me, with decent schools and medical care for all.
I actually agree with BOTH you and Kristina's points. They are not incompatible.
Your point: if you work hard you will improve your lot in life. I couldn't agree more.
-The Senator's daughter will go further if she applies herself compared to if she sits around being a prima donna all day.
-The Native American girl will go further if she struggles and works compared to if she wastes away collecting a check on the Reservation.
Your reverse point (equally valid): if you piss and whine all day your lot in life will be worse than otherwise. I also agree.
Kristina's point:
-not everybody can "make it". I agree here as well. It'd be hard for a mentally handicapped person to be a doctor. Or for a person with a limp to be a sports star. Or for a transgendered illegal immigrant to work for an Investment bank. Half the people are by definition going to have below-median jobs.
and my add on:
-how far you make it often depends on where you start. (Senator's daughter vs Reservation).
creditcriminalslovetarp (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 11:11 am
litter bugs irk me, fine them heavy and make them do manual labor along the roadside....the trash blowing around cities now is disgusting.
I have a strong belief that you could do a lot more to combat crime by attacking it through traffic and littler enforcement than by trying to chase major criminals.
Anti-social personalities are the actual problem, and these behaviors are easy ways to catch people who are an actual menace to society.
YTL, I think therein lies the problem. Both "sides" are correct to an extent and neither can see the forest through the trees...I try to be pragmatic, of course working hard and applying oneself is important, but right of birth seems to trump that in all too many cases...
We have encouraged and invested tons of money on Green energy for decades with poor results. It is there but I don't think we can come close to finding it yet. We are being sold it's just around the corner. Every time we have an energy blip some clown pulls out of his shed a 100MPG car that runs on dog poop. See it's possible! We need to continue on the path of development but now relye on what does works today. I believe in science and value progress. Science gets us into trouble and can get us out of trouble but has no economic sense. Time to mow the lawn see U later.
I share the belief although I'm not inclined to formalize that into surveillance and profiling tools. It takes a special individual to throw trash on the ground in plane sight. You have a 50:50 chance of being stabbed in the throat when you confront them and tell them to clean it up.
Comrade Kristina (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 10:17 am
YTL, I think therein lies the problem. Both "sides" are correct to an extent and neither can see the forest through the trees...I try to be pragmatic, of course working hard and applying oneself is important, but right of birth seems to trump that in all too many cases...
Broward is also correct (the political parasite / socialite angle and "smoothing" function of communication as a dominant part of a lot of corporate culture). All these stereotypes ("hard work -> reward", "idle rich", "everything is politics") are present at any given moment in society because all types of people are present in that society. It's pretty myopic to believe only one exists or is a significant influence but the dominant paradigm and balance between them does tend to shift around.
Blackhat,
I think you mean it takes a special individual to confront the litter bug...I'm far from special and no stabbings so far...close to some fisticuffs but cool heads prevail..in california a little spanish helps too....
BR- I agree and could write tickets all day long...Heck I've had guys just toss out all there mcdonalds right in front of me while driving...I speed up, slam the brakes on and play with em a little.....I'm a truck man....
YTL, I think therein lies the problem. Both "sides" are correct to an extent and neither can see the forest through the trees...I try to be pragmatic, of course working hard and applying oneself is important, but right of birth seems to trump that in all too many cases...
Yes. But that is how life often is, with both sides of an argument actually being correct.
is America the defender of liberty and freedom? or an imperialistic bully superpower? answer: yes.
is America fighting the war against terror, or fighting a war of terror? answer: yes.
People spoke about America taking Iraq's oil. in the end, there is no practical way America COULD have taken Iraq's oil. It was not politically feasible, even if it were the true intention initially. Everybody on Earth thought America was grabbing Iraq's oil. If you thought we saw terror attacks before 911, just think of what we would have seen if we took Iraq's oil overtly!!!! Every jihadist in the middle east would wave that banner "look, America is coming to destroy us and take our oil!!!!!!"
However, in the end we DID take their oil, covertly. Or at least we will. We have replaced a dictator who was not friendly to our cause with a government that is sympathetic to our goals. Eventually they will hopefully rebuild, and then we will have another Saudi Arabia (or at least that is what our leaders hope). The war was a way to help secure future oil supplies... through diplomatic ways.
we did the same thing with Iran in the past as well, if you recall... (overthrowing their government for a US-sympathetic government). it just didn't work the way it was intended, that's all...
Honestly, even at todays tech 100mpg is mostly a matter of putting a small engine into a small car. Fission (Nuke) power is basically practical today if people actually cared about environmental impact instead of fashion, we'd probably see more of that here.
in general, I've found that there is a vast difference between a government and its people.
it is my thought that Americans have not changed much with regard to their thoughts of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I think they believe in those concepts,and of the merits of spreading "freedom" just as much today as they did 75 years ago.
However, I do think that the government has changed. At one point I think the government believed in life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness and its policies reflected this. But then a very slow devolution happened and we were left with what we have now. now it uses the life/liberty/happiness arguments to coerce and mislead Americans into supporting failed policies and imperialistic ambitions.
Not sure when this devolution began, but it was already starting to be present by the Korean War.
a pity.
For those of you interested, there is a GREAT book called "the Ugly American". it was written in 1958 and I think it does a WONDERFUL job of showing how Americans do GREAT foreign relations and how they do HORRIFIC foreign relations. it is a fictional account of several short stories. a quick read, a good read, and an enjoyable read. I've never met a thoughtful person who didn't like the book.
We have replaced a dictator who was not friendly to our cause with a government that is sympathetic to our goals.
Past performance is no guarantee of future returns.
correct. which is why I immediately followed that example with the Iranian example. we tried, and failed, there.
and then we supported Saddam Hussein to fight against our new Iranian enemies, and he became a bigger PITA than the Iranians.
And now we've replaced him with 'democracy'.
I'm not saying that the US will be successful. I'm saying that the war in Iraq was and is an oil grab.
Yearning to Learn (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 10:36 am
However, I do think that the government has changed. At one point I think the government believed in life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness and its policies reflected this. But then a very slow devolution happened and we were left with what we have now. now it uses the life/liberty/happiness arguments to coerce and mislead Americans into supporting failed policies and imperialistic ambitions.
I'd say about 1947. Most if not all of the Cold War was a thinly-veiled attempt at disguising imperialism in the robes of national security. IMHO.
I think I must sound like a nit pick, but it was the broader point that interests me. Imperial pursuits masked as Democracy for the huddled masses has quite a history, stretching at least as far back as Maximilian at Chapultapec.
The world might rightly hope our mendicant status curbs that long history. And I'm not presuming you disagree.
We have replaced a dictator who was not friendly to our cause with a government that is sympathetic to our goals.
Don't forget that Saddam was sympathetic to our goals when we put him in power. We didn't care that he was evil when Iraq was at war with Iran. We also thought the Taliban was fine as long as they were fighting the Russians. We sow the seeds of our own destruction with our shortsighted stupidity and hubris.
burnside I agree completely.
however I do think that much of the "spread freedom" meme was honestly believed even by our governmental leaders... at least in the beginning.
in general movements start with a just cause, but then usually diverge from the cause over time. (some would say that the movement becomes perverted)
alambka, you are simply restating what I've already said, so you have no argument from me.
see my previous post where I said:
"correct. which is why I immediately followed that example with the Iranian example. we tried, and failed, there.
and then we supported Saddam Hussein to fight against our new Iranian enemies, and he became a bigger PITA than the Iranians.
And now we've replaced him with 'democracy'.
I'm not saying that the US will be successful. I'm saying that the war in Iraq was and is an oil grab."
When elected government officials secretly collude with bankers to create a non-governmental Federal Reserve Bank that controls the currency of the country and systematically generates inflation to allow government to spend at an ever increasing rate.
Taxing citizens to create bureaucratic government agencies and programs that fail to accomplish their mission while continuing to grow in size as politicians use them to reward the contributors to their re-election campaigns.
2?
And oil hits $71 on inventory drawdown...
Oil hits 7-month peak as U.S. stockpiles wither
| Reuters
Pigged from previous thread with very short half-life:
ShadowInventory wrote:
Oh for pete's sake would anyone think that the IMF bonds are better than the US?
Isn't at least half of the IMF funded by the U.S.? It does smack of politics, like most Russian financial jawboning.
I do think the dollar will lose reserve status some time in the next 20 years, but I don't know what is going to replace it. I doubt the world will want to put all of its eggs in any one currency so there probably won't be a move from dollar to Yuan or Euro. My guess would be a basket of currencies and/or commodities, possibly denominated in SDRs, IF other countries start carrying more of the water at the IMF.
You can trust me, I work in IT...
IT staff snooping on colleagues on rise: survey
| Reuters
Let me echo Rosenberg here and ask: How long until major exporting economies, recognizing the USA has acted unilaterally in its own interest, begin to devalue against the dollar? And, in the event, what will our ex/im stats look like then?
Beige sprouts
When Congresswoman Kaptur questioned Bernanke 2006.06.04 about the % foreign financing of the deficit he mentioned that is was 'less' based on trade.
He also gave a number of I'll check and get back to you answers. It was a public hearing. Were would the those answers be published, and how would one go about finding them?
edit: june 03 Marcy Kaptur of Ohio...
ShadowInventory, the higher oil price is definitely going to push up the trade deficit . The average import price was only $46 per barrel in April - so that number will move higher over the next couple of months
best wishes
We had a discussion of SDR's here a couple days ago. I read 3 articles about it and I still am not sure what they are... It sounds sort of like a CD or a savings account, except that I suppose the IMF loans the money out to underdeveloped countries who never pay it back... there is also an argument that the IMF money destroys poor countries.... I'm sure the IMF or the World Bank or the EU central bank would all like to usurp the Fed, and I sure hope that Obama doesnt let that happen...
That article on the oil price also said that the inventories will drop fast if Opec holds it's current output and there is economic improvement... That's a pretty big IF though...
Comrade Coinz,
I'm not sure with the reasoning regarding the move to "an alternate currency, but not tomorrow, probably in twenty years".
I've thought about it.
Either it is done soon as the dollar continues to lose value despite being the de facto reserve currency, the currency of oil and commodities, and creditors. Or, it doesn't happen in twenty years because there is no other catalysts big enough to move china, EU, russia, and japan (and the rest) to move away from it. I agree that a basket of currencies and commodities is compelling. In fact this is what Russia & China both appear to be doing. Russia a little more gold heavy, and china a little more diversified between owning the mines, and commodities, and diversifying their currency.
But why twenty years, why not 5 years, or 24 months?
USD will still be part of the basket, maybe even have 51% share. Just not 100%.
I do think it is more likely than not that USD declines twice, once with creditors demanding higher interest for our borrowing, and twice for reserve currency shifting out of dollars. The first coincides with inflation, the second further exacerbates inflation.
--bh
I suppose the IMF loans the money out to underdeveloped countries who never pay it back.
There is also an argument that the IMF money destroys poor countries.
It's not an argument. It's the MO of neocolonialism. The global "development" framework was a framework for economic exploitation of resource center nations under the guise of lending for development policy. Only the "tiger" nations that didn't accept that comparative advantage meant importing finished goods in return for strip mining for bauxite developed successfully. Everyone who did otherwise was stuffed with debt to the gills and then raped for resources and later, sweatshop labor.
We had a discussion of SDR's here a couple days ago. I read 3 articles about it and I still am not sure what they are
My understanding is that they are a synthetic currency made up of the dollar, pound, euro, and yen. Really just an accounting tool to keep track of who has donated what to the IMF. I think most criticism of the IMF comes not from their lending, but the onerous conditions that come along with the loan. They impose austerity on other countries in a form the U.S. or U.K. would never accept.
Off topic:
The eminent legal historian who on this blog goes by "1 currency now -yogi" declared a comment of mine "BS" and demanded a legal citation on a fairly recent previous thread devoted to the worth of a college education. (The subject of my comment was a 1971 Supreme Court Case regarding employer discrimination, and I said the decision was a principal reason why employers now require college diplomas for just about any job worth having. 1 currency now -yogi's response: "BS.") Herewith is a reference to the 1971 decision from an op-ed piece by Ruth Marcus in today's Washington Post, written in the context of the nomination of Ms. Sotomayor to the Court.
Ms. Marcus writes: "Under federal anti-discrimination law, employers . . . can be found liable for discrimination even in the absence of evidence that they intended to discriminate. If an employment practice (here, a test) appears neutral but has a 'disparate impact' on minorities—if it is 'fair to form but discriminatory in operation' in the words of a 1971 Supreme Court ruling—the employer must justify the need for this practice. "
Given this legal never-never land, it is not difficult to understand the reason why employers no longer administer tests to prospective employees and instead substitute a requirement of a college degree.
OT, but what's with the rise in base metals? Brazil is signing contracts for iron ore that are 40-50% less than last year, but commodity stocks are skying. Mortgage applications are no green shoots today. And the rally goes on.
Citigroup releases the details of their impending screw job of the US taxpayer.
Currently, Citi said, its ability to take advantage of tax credits from past losses could be "substantially limited" if there is a change of ownership for the firm. The company said the crux of the plan is to discourage any current shareholders from raising their Citi stake to more than 5%, or any prospective shareholders from buying 5% or more of the firm's common shares.
Gee, tax consequences? Nothing about saving Pandit's job? Jeez. More at Marketwatch.
blackhat wrote:
But why twenty years, why not 5 years, or 24 months?
20 years is my vague sense of how long the dollar can last. Things look bad for the U.S. now, but within 20 years, the Medicare and SS bombs blow up and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq will have had time to drain all the rest of our resources. The end could become clear before then, but inertia may keep the reserve dollar going longer it deserves. There are a lot of technical details involved in moving away form the petro-dollar, BIS settlements, etc.
Bottom line, 20 years is a wild ass guess.
They impose austerity on other countries in a form the U.S. or U.K. would never accept.
They also push the crack on you in the first place, and don't forget the complicty of the West's political apparatus in all this. If you were a venial dictator, the CIA sent guns and torturers. You spent the loan money shouting "Christian Dior me!" and it was all good. When the money ran out, you made painful concessions for the public of your nation and came to terms with your creditors and let industrial combines ruin your nation and exploit your people. You personally lost nothing and you and all your relatives skimmed as usual.
If you were conscientious and tried to better your nation, you were branded communist and the CIA had you assassinated while a bunch of Palino-Fascists back in America waved their arms and barked like dogs. Yee-haw, git 'er done. Gotta fight them commies, and the best way to show you're a loyal American patriot is to blindly accept labels and to support the heroic cops when they beat down the negro-libbo-lesbo-hippies who don't understand "my country right or wrong".
This system of economic exploitation under the guise of national security and economic development would later spread to America.
If oil prices are the driver in the increase of trade debt, then Drill Baby Drill would be beneficial right now. Real jobs not faux gov jobs, a reduction of foreign oil dependence and a reduction of foreign debt. Green energy is still a very big black hole.
dr munch (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 9:21 am
OT, but what's with the rise in base metals? Brazil is signing contracts for iron ore that are 40-50% less than last year, but commodity stocks are skying.
What if the underlying asset is staying static in value and the denominative unit is being printed at hyperinflational rates, but only given out to banks and other speculators?
Damn B_R, tell us how you really feel...not that I really disagree with your synopsis, if not the tone.
I got pigged on the last thread but: Dirk, yes, I was being sloppy, I know the fed is the only buyer and only the buyer, so the market, but not the maker.
The rise in oil really surprises me...I feel like this is simply another round of oil speculation based on green shoots, not a real uptick in consumption. How many tankers can you store the stuff in out in the ocean? Were there really that many idle tankers? Can you really build them that fast? What say the Oil Drum fanatics?
Ben Dover: Drill Baby Drill wouldn't make a rats ass difference since real consumption (supply) isn't the driver in the price uptick.
Byz: I can see buying iron ore, steel, gold and letting it sit. I can't see buying a miner that is losing money in the face of weak real demand.
Someone on CNBS finally said rising oil prices might not be so good.
Comrade Scott, it is simply speculation IMO. As a Florida resident we see this every year during tourist season....I don't think it is sustainable.
OT
a couple facts on cash for clunkers
The Congressional Budget Office estimated the bill could spur sales of about 625,000 vehicles; backers are hoping for 1 million. The clunker being traded in will be crushed or recycled, meaning it will have no trade-in value beyond the voucher. Of the 25 million vehicles estimated to qualify for the voucher, most will be trucks: even 15 years ago, only five models of midsize sedans managed just 18 m.p.g. The trade-ins have to have been registered and insured for at least the past year.
Byzantine Ruins wrote:
This system of economic exploitation under the guise of national security and economic development would later spread to America.
Yes, I think that about covers it. I am not sure that is how the system was intended, but it seems that is the way it has worked.
Insured clunkers? I'm sure it will be "stated" insurance, and they will have lots and lots of people checking into the facts.
OT- more auto news...
While experts continue debating whether Ford Motor Co. can survive without the federal money propping up GM and Chrysler, the company is being bolstered by an increasing number of Americans who are doing more than buying Ford's "we're different" message, the Detroit Free Press reports. They are buying Ford's cars and trucks.
Ford gained more than two full percentage points of market share in the United States last month. What's more, Ford achieved the gain while lowering incentives, such as cash-back rebates, by nearly 30 percent. The positive momentum underscores why Ford contends it can make it through the economic downturn without federal assistance...In a campaign partially coordinated by Ford, dealers began running personal letters in their hometown papers about how Ford has distinguished itself both with high-quality, fuel-efficient products and from the other Detroit Three automakers by not taking federal loans.
Ford will be my next vehicle purchase in 2012
We can just forget about all these forecasters, analysts that sit in front of the computer speculating the oil prices because of a tank capsize or a weather storm. Everything is being controlled from the middle east, they are the ones controlling the prices, total control.
Best regard,
Michael Fridman
The “MAN” Experience
Comrade Scott as I understand it, only the continued demand for gasoline is currently supporting oil prices. If there is a point where gasoline consumption breaks, there should be a sharp drop in oil prices reflecting the overabundance of unrefined crude and other oversupplied distillates.
All,
Somehow, I don't think we're heading for a utopian future. Here's an outdated view of the future of work, year 2062:
George Jetson works three hours a day and three days a week.......... Daily life is characterized as being comically leisurely because of the incredible sophistication and number of labor saving devices, which occasionally break down with humorous results. George's work day consists of pressing a single computer button. Despite this, characters often complain of exhausting hard labor and difficulties of living with the remaining inconveniences.
The Jetsons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Currently, I'm less productive than George Jetson! It doesn't have to be so hard.
On the flip side, it's troubling to think we are burning through our natural resources (especially oil) to feed the credit monster.
I think we should permanently end long run inflation. Imo, that would allow for a better use of scarce resources.
Comrade Scott
More of the money stays here and increases employment. Speculation is other wise the same. Now all of it now pretty much goes out the door.
A test of that hypothesis would be to check the retail price of diesel. I believe you'll note it has fallen sharply already.
Since i also got pigged - let me re-ask.
Does anybody know who's buying the new issuance ABS/MBS instruments ($669 billion, Q1 2009 USA)?
Any estimates on how much of that if any, was lent to hedge funds, and other financial speculators?
-- w
The cash for clunkers deal is a huge sham. By paying people to CONsume with borrowed money, we will actually increase oil usage over what would have been consumed in a free market.
It's a total joke that this bill is being sold as "green."
Double speak. Total idiocy.
Comrade Scott (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 9:42 am
Damn B_R, tell us how you really feel...not that I really disagree with your synopsis, if not the tone.
I started as a extremely conservative security policy analyst.
Unfortunately, I actually believed it, unlike your typical "conservative" in my peer group, who was either a useful idiot with star-spangled eyes and the analytic depth of a bird bath, or strictly in it because being Republican meant you could be an asshole greedy racist douche and proud of it.
I consequently became what is termed an "able but unwilling soldier".
Comrade Coinz (homepage, profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 9:49 am
Yes, I think that about covers it. I am not sure that is how the system was intended, but it seems that is the way it has worked.
I think Acheson knew exactly what he was getting. Dulles without question did what he did because he was a greedy, amoral fool. They're the real authors of the neo-colonial paradigm.
I wonder how many of those clunker vouchers will actually be used. You have to turn in your paid off clunker for a new vehicle and either have the cash or qualify for a loan... and have income to pay the loan... Plus meeting the requirements for the voucher in the first place... And you have to have proof of registration and insurance? Obviously the Congress has not been out in Clunkerland recently....
B-R- Succinct. And Dr Munch (and others) the relative prices of various commodities as priced in differing currencies is not OT, in a way, that IS the topic, so kudos for adding your thoughts to the thread.
My take: most commodities (and certainly oil) serve a dual role. They have industrial uses, and thus react to the normal laws of supply and demand. But they also have a role as a "store of value," in that they can be stored in anticipation of future value. This role is sort of a working definition of speculation, in that the holder places a bet that he would rather have the stored good than the saved cash.
Now, soybeans and coffee and such are renewable, in that the supply can be replenished over time ... if you hoard so much that you drive supply down and price up, growers and producers will work to increase supply. Oil is trading differently right now, in that there seems to be a finite supply - although much remains below ground, we know of no way to "plant more."
If the Saudis and others were able to convincingly demonstrate the ability to surge supply, speculation would become less attractive, but I am not alone in my doubts as to the ability (not to mention willingness) of the major exporters to flip the switch and drive up supply.
And see Jesse's report today on supply, demand, and currency fluctuation for a more full explanantion of Byz's point about static value of an underlying asset, depending on how you choose to measure value.
Byzantine_Ruins (homepage, profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 9:00 am
Damn B_R, tell us how you really feel...not that I really disagree with your synopsis, if not the tone.
I started as a extremely conservative security policy analyst.
Unfortunately, I actually believed it, unlike your typical "conservative" in my peer group, who was either a useful idiot with star-spangled eyes and the analytic depth of a bird bath, or strictly in it because being Republican meant you could be an asshole greedy racist douche and proud of it.
Hell hath no fury like the analyst operating in a world of bad faith.
the analytic depth of a bird bath - I'm plagarizing that for my next book - great phrase there BR....
I wonder how many of those clunker vouchers will actually be used.
The voucher is on top of the trade in value.
the analytic depth of a bird bath
The analytic depth of a bird brain. That's my view of wall street eCONomists and analysts.
I always thought the failure of the third world to prosper was due to corruption and theft of the treasury by the people in charge, and by the failure to build infrastructure and educate the populace... There is a list available on the net of the top thieves (heads of state) of all time... Suharto heads the list at 35 billion....
"unlike your typical "conservative" in my peer group, who was either a useful idiot with star-spangled eyes and the analytic depth of a bird bath, or strictly in it because being Republican meant you could be an asshole greedy racist douche and proud of it. "
LOL BR, you just summed up the entire GOP in my neck of the woods....
I always thought the failure of the third world to prosper was due to corruption and theft of the treasury by the people in charge, and by the failure to build infrastructure and educate the populace
So how does this differ from the US?
SDRs explained at imf.org:
The value of the SDR was initially defined as equivalent to 0.888671 grams of fine gold—which, at the time, was also equivalent to one U.S. dollar. After the collapse of the Bretton Woods system in 1973, however, the SDR was redefined as a basket of currencies,today consisting of the euro, Japanese yen, pound sterling, and U.S. dollar. The U.S. dollar-value of the SDR is posted daily on the IMF's website. It is calculated as the sum of specific amounts of the four currencies valued in U.S. dollars, on the basis of exchange rates quoted at noon each day in the London market.
The U.S. dollar is currently valued at about 0.65 SDRs (a 35% decrease in 36 years):
SDR Valuation
The U.S. has a 17.1% stake in the IMF (not close to half):
Issues Brief - Reform of IMF Quotas and Voice: Responding to Changes in the Global Economy
You are educating yourself Basel, correct? And you have been working at least part time since age 16.... So you are succeeding... The system works if you do.... The problems started when the politicians started teaching some of the populace that they didnt need to do that, just wait for their check in the mail...
ShadowInventory (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 9:06 am
I always thought the failure of the third world to prosper was due to corruption and theft of the treasury by the people in charge, and by the failure to build infrastructure and educate the populace... There is a list available on the net of the top thieves (heads of state) of all time... Suharto heads the list at 35 billion....
Remove "third" and I think most would agree that the sentence is still true.
Is Bahamut Lagoon a common pastime in the security analysis world?
I disagree that the world in total is failing. It is what it is, and the standard of living now is higher than it has ever been. The population is larger than it has ever been and it is growing. Science and technology provide methods to increase current production and an even higher standard of living... Go out and work for it, I did....
-- and the standard of living now is higher than it has ever been. --
True until October 2008
I saw a Rolls Royce once with the license plate "CIWORKED"
ShadowInventory (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 10:06 am
I always thought the failure of the third world to prosper was due to corruption and theft of the treasury by the people in charge, and by the failure to build infrastructure and educate the populace.
It's true. And the people who did it were carefully selected, and the ones who weren't properly venial were culled out, and their ability to suck all the money out of the programs due to inadequate controls, and the way that the development was structured as loans and not grants, and the kinds of projects it was squandered on, were all fully conscious decisions, as were the kinds of austerity programs imposed. Then you were educated stupid so you'd go along with it, even when they did it to your own country.
........if we no longer produce anything competitively that anyone wants or needs, where is the hope?...... That's right, we're turning this 'big old boat' around through the busy work of the "service sector" - kind of like a monopoly game.........may as well listen to "Truth thru George Jetson".
The charts are looking much prettier now that the blue bar on the right is getting thicker and thicker..........Suitable for Framing
"Blue sky, nothing but Blue sky I see!"
Still higher now - coming soon - Cat Scans that can detect colon cancer so you dont have to undergo invasive scoping - Cancer treatment using gold particles and targeted infrared heat - Circulatory problems treated with silver nanoparticles... Nano tech in general is going to change the world... And I still want the self driving vehicle but I dont expect to get it from Govt Motors...
"I disagree that the world in total is failing."...............substitute US for 'world'.
It appears some here still buy into the "American Dream" that if you just work hard enough, you can make it. I call BS...What percentage of the jobs in this country are go nowhere, low paying, yet perform necessary societal functions? I don't care how educated a nation we become, someone still has to sweep the streets, pick up the trash, clean the sewers, etc...
You can trust me, I work in IT...
In many ways, it is the only way--sans sneaking around in person--to get information that will actually affect you.
Prisoners' Dilemma: It wasn't ever just an organization economic problem.
" Your daily Green shoots "
May job losses just as bad as previous months on an hours-worked basis
Phillips Products -125
Third world lending website begins loaning money to Americans
Chicago Public Schools potential layoffs -1,000
Ford -350
City of Turlock, CA -23
Milwaukee County, WI -310
Newport Television employees face mandatory 10 day furloughs
Desperate debtors torching and ditching their cars
Kern County, CA eliminates jobs -47
Talbots Department Stores -264
Carver County, MN -30
United Methodist Agencies -50
Governor Pawlenty: Minnesota's $2.7 billion budget deficit will lead to layoffs
Colusa Casino -42
City of Ocean Shores, WA -10
Gloucester County College -7
WSJ: massive pay cuts will have long standing economic effects
Greene County, OH layoffs looming
Baxter Healthcare -65
Charlotte-Mecklenburg, NC School Board -885
Advanced Steel -91
Massey Energy Co -27
MeadeWestVaco -65
Putzmeister America -29
Dataupia -37
United Way of Rhode Island -8
Untitled Document
Well BR your statements suppose that there is some giant conspiracy which I doubt could be pulled off in a country this size... I think the current state of affairs is the result of the politicians trying to get re-elected by spending money... and by the govt bureaucracy not doing it's job, which is the normal thing for them...
Chrysler/Fiat done deal, AP reporting now...
Russia intends to sell US Treasuries and move into IMF assets, yuan, etc.
Across the Curve » Blog Archive » Dow Jones Story on Russia and the $
Your death spiral starts here.
Shadow, is is satire 'cause I can't tell?
@sportsfan,
Do you know how the IMF is really governed? I don't. For example, there were many articles back in April about the U.S. Congress having to approve IMF gold sales. Is the IMF controlled by the U.S. Congress?
This article in the WSJ suggests that the U.S. Congress has the power to dissolve the IMF.
As far as I can tell, the IMF is primarily an organ of the U.S. government despite the 17% quota level. How it really operates is kind of murky to me.
Comrade Kristina (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 9:19 am
I don't care how educated a nation we become, someone still has to sweep the streets, pick up the trash, clean the sewers, etc...
Kristina, the Western world has wanted to jettison the demands of the flesh / material world practically since it began. I just look at this delusion as a new form of mind-body dualism with a little gnosticism thrown in especially for the technically-inclined. Of course the religious framework is different this time.
Yes yes, and bisphenol and soy protein providing free breast augmentations. We no longer need to manufacture cordage since the stuff is growing right in our skin courtesy of Morgellons. We get our dietary iron right from the mine. What a wonderful life!
Kristina most people dont stay in entry level jobs for long, they work their way up... it's a lifelong project to educate yourself and develop skills, and to manage your life.... And it's my job to do that for me, nobody else'... In the US you have liberty to do what you want and you get a free education through high school. That's your advantage, and people want to come here from all over the world especially for the liberty... Then do what you want or what you can and get the results... It's not a matter of winning or losing or comparing yourself with other people - you cant be them and they cant be you... Do your best and no regrets... Otherwise make do on whatever the handout rate is...
Coinz, I would take it one step further and say the IMF are tools of the Friedmaniacs...
racial (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 10:13 am
Is Bahamut Lagoon a common pastime in the security analysis world?
The titles of that generation are apotheotic designs. After that, increasing display hardware capacity and increasing budgets and cultural exposure led to new constraints on design that legislated against quality. "Bad graphics make good games". Almost all modern technical design worth seeing is taking place on handhelds. You'll never see another Dai Senryaku VII level design released for a major settop box. FF Tactics Advance, Advance Wars, they could never fly on modern "front line" hardware. Even handhelds are getting too project-price constrained for good design since PSP.
A security analyst is a game designer with a tie. I took the tie off.
-- a free education through high school. That's your advantage --
Satire, thanks for clarifying that.
C. Coinz, all the details are at the imf.org site, but off the top of my head, it seems like all the founding members, including the U.S., have to vote to approve any sale of gold by a huge supramajority (perhaps 90%) because the gold is what they contributed when the organization was formed.
To say the U.S. controls the IMF would not be accurate, though, since, as mentioned above, the U.S. currently has only a 17.1% interest in the IM, which is expressed in SDRs, and thus a 17.1% vote. What political sway the U.S. has over other members is not something I pretend to know. I will say, though, that you hardly ever see crowds in a recipient nation burning the German flag.
The issue of IMF gold sales comes up every few years.
SI, a full 50% of the jobs in this country pay less than 32K per year. That means half of our workers fill menial, low paying positions. You seem to be under the impression if they just educate themselves they could all move up...That just isn't the case, there are only a limited amount of good paying jobs in this country, the rest, fight over the scraps...
May Jobs Report Not So Great After All
May Jobs Report Not So Great After All
Walker, there is no path for you... You make the path when you walk....
Comrade Kristina,
I disagree. The problem now is the same 40 years ago. Most Americans have no discipline to accomplish the American Dream, it is still there and very alive. Look to legal and illegal immigrants for the key. Americans feel to privileged.
Life is a fair employer
She'll pay you any price you ask
But once you set the wages
Then you must bear the task.
I was greatly chagrined when Hero's Quest was remade with point and click interface. I miss the days of typing "Hut of brown now sit down". Definitely not simple nostalgia.
So if every person in this country strived their very best to "make it" and by some miracle they all did, who picks up the trash? Those jobs would still need to be filled. The fact is not everyone has the capacity for higher education. Some are good with their hands, some are good at teaching etc. The problem occurs when we marginalize their contributions...
With a the greatness of innovations being spouted here, where are the moral and ethical innovations that would allow society to evolve past consumerism?
The American Dream has become, "how can I put one over on some schmuck"? No downside there for socialized losses, huh?
The problem occurs when we marginalize their contributions...
The real problem occurs when we provide extraordinary compensation to paper pushers who produce nothing.
A big part of our problem, as a society is that we conflate standard of living with quality of life. It's the common mistake that quantity equates to value, writ large.
EIA just released weekly oil data. Crude stocks down 4.4 million barrels for the week, estimates looked for an 800k drawdown. Oil is gonna shoot to the moon on this one. To the moon Alice!!
We would be a better nation if everybody did strive for success but in stead we used social enabling and excuses. Who picks up the trash? Haven't we cured that for 40+ years with illegal immigration?
When "Greed is Good" became the mantra, I knew we were doomed. I blame "Wallstreet", not the location, the movie. snark
Here, if you are not satisfied with your work and income, you can change that if you want. You cant do that in a planned economy. And govt interference in the marketplace distorts things, so you have people making a lot of money for doing essentially nothing, which breeds discontent among those who actually do work. I changed paths several times not because of money but because I was no longer interested in the current job... I probably would have more money now if I didnt do that, but I 'made the path as I walked' and when you get used to being in control of yourself then it's not a problem or scary, it's sailing your own ship... That's the most satisfying thing of life...
Wife and I have been caring for an elderly family member and he passed on last night in peace... Makes me even more aware that your wealth is your time of consciousness, nothing else... Enjoy the journey....
LBD, are you saying that is acceptable?
there's gonna be a sequel to "Wall Street" with Michael Douglas and Shia LaBeouf.
SI, sorry for your loss, I cared for my Mother after her stroke for almost two years until she passed...Indeed, it reminds one of their own short trip on this globe...
Lobbyist Ben Dover (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 9:31 am reply Ignore user If oil prices are the driver in the increase of trade debt, then Drill Baby Drill would be beneficial right now. Real jobs not faux gov jobs, a reduction of foreign oil dependence and a reduction of foreign debt. Green energy is still a very big black hole.
Lobbyist,
Agree that there are certain biasis (agri-bus) toward corn-ethanol for green energy which is a blackhole (more input of energy required to what you get out plus subsidy which distorts food and feed prices). But, there are other endeavors (solar/wind/grid/fusion/nuclear) that could also use more dollars--and I don't regard the simplistic belief that domestic petrol 1) creates so many jobs (see bls stats for this sector), 2) will lower petrol costs, 3) will wean us of foreign suppliers while keeping our dollars at home.
Petro-chem is a pretty small although well-paying job sector. Amount of daily petrol intake for America would not be dented by domestic production increases and likewise global production/price not impacted at all by domestic--and that oil would be sold on a global market in any case.
You could sixtuple the employment for oil and only make up a month of losses.
--bh
NAICS 324000 - Petroleum and Coal Products Manufacturing
All Occupations top
Employment Estimates Wage Estimates
SOC Code Number Occupation Title Employment (1) Percent of Total Median Hourly Mean Hourly Mean Annual (2) Mean RSE (3)
00-0000 All Occupations 116,900 100.00% $25.65 $28.79 $59,880 2.2 %
Petroleum and Coal Products Manufacturing - May 2008 OES Industry-Specific Occupational Employment and Wage Estimates
I wish you well Kristina, and everyone else here too - thanks for contributing to my education and experience...
-- Here, if you are not satisfied with your work and income, you can change that if you want. --
Here, if you are not satisfied with your work or income, you can change one if you want.
Fixed it. And I think the same goes for planned economies.
Comrade Kristina (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 9:34 am
So if every person in this country strived their very best to "make it" and by some miracle they all did, who picks up the trash? Those jobs would still need to be filled. The fact is not everyone has the capacity for higher education. Some are good with their hands, some are good at teaching etc. The problem occurs when we marginalize their contributions...
Again it's the delusion we can separate from the flesh, or that it's a good idea to do so. We devalue it in our own lives too... witness the physical shape we're in as an aggregate, or how political/economic interests shape a city in unsustainable ways. The "knowledge worker" is our new idol and we need to convince ourselves that his work is all high-value. The only way to do that (since all economic value is relative) is by devaluing other work. We're seeing the wisdom of our approach too.
RIF, I have pondered this matter many times throughout my life and I never seem to come up with any answer for it...
LBD, Not at all but the sense of entitlement has taught most Americans they are above what I call integrity jobs. Many I had in the early years. The lesson was I did not want to do them for my life career. From picking in the fields to the M club by 40 in a blue collar business. That to me is the American dream it is opportunity of hard work and self education.
We could build a lot more hydroelectric plants and nuclear too - France is mostly nuclear and they recycle the spent fuel rods instead of trying to store them...
...and by some miracle they all did, who picks up the trash?
In SI's view of the world, it would play out this way: There are no trash picker-uppers at a given price range which means people who want their trash collected would have to pay a higher rate and thus pull up the earning potential for said trash collectors. Now, the trash collectors magically live a better life because they are at the table of the American Dream instead of eating off of the floor underneath it. However, we see through the use of illegal immigrants in private cleaning companies that there are some real life variables in this simplistic formula that shoot that argument to pieces.
Hence, the argument should probably be: There never was an "American Dream" without "free land" (Taken land from the native inhabitants) or a destroyed global economy where the US was the only major player would could fill the void (Post-WW2). Now, we have little free land left to be given away as land-grants or taken without lengthy legal processes, and we cannot write our own check any longer in the global economy.
The way people in the past "made their way" was migrating away from power centers in hopes of building their own power centers (Colonialism), and now we are back to the way things were: You fight to take someone else's property and subjugate them... I think.
-- who picks up the trash? --
Easy, the same guy who does the gardening!
Que?
One person thought they could succeed, one person was convince they could not - they are both correct...
Per kristina,
If everyone had a PHD, who would do the menial jobs? I remember my Berkeley days of the early 1970s (1974 recession) where PHD's were happy to have a post office job...My generation, whether you think we were over educated or that the educational system was down graded) found that any job, no matter how lowly had to be acquired to survive. Like she said someone had to do these jobs...
One final point, no matter the degree of expertise required for a job, if you work a 40 hr a week job, you should earn aliveable wage...What is considered liveable is really the only issue...I personally believe that its a wage where you are a net contributor to society...whether through taxes or draw on the society's services...
jmho
Any attempt to manipulate the market or control wages and prices will result in the loss of jobs.
ShadowInventory (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 10:44 am reply Ignore user We could build a lot more hydroelectric plants and nuclear too - France is mostly nuclear and they recycle the spent fuel rods instead of trying to store them...
Agree, but I'm also interested in more of the pure reserach. Polywell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(example)
A lot of these are dead-ends not because of technical merit, but because government chooses to fund bigger bombs dropped from faster planes.
--bh
Comrade Kristina (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 9:43 am
RIF, I have pondered this matter many times throughout my life and I never seem to come up with any answer for it...
Me too. Do you think it is an accident that an economy grows and prospers with innovation and wealth when physical power and production is combined with efficient design, engineering and management, and flounders when either one disconnects from or belittles the other and recognizes and serves only its own interests?
O.K., Ken, my next post will be empty, per your test request.
.
Hi Ken, I did an empty post, and got the error message "comment field required," so that's o.k. I also tried entering 4 hard returns, and it still gives that message, so it recognized the difference. It's looking for visible ASCII characters, presumably? That suggests, to me, Liz' problem must be hard returns she's entering" unconsciously," rather than some obscure bug. Thanks, Ken.
SI, I understand your position, I just think there is more to it. Like I said, I've pondered this many times and never find an equitable solution...Until such time as Americans (or people in general) don't strive to find someone lower on the rung of life to sneer at, nothing changes.
ShadowInventory (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 10:20 am
Well BR your statements suppose that there is some giant conspiracy which I doubt could be pulled off in a country this size...
Dean Acheson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Dean Gooderham Acheson (April 11, 1893 – October 12, 1971) was an American statesman and lawyer; as United States Secretary of State in the administration of President Harry S. Truman during 1949–1953, he played a central role in defining American foreign policy during the Cold War.[1] He likewise played a central role in the creation of many important institutions, including Lend Lease, the Truman Doctrine, the Marshall Plan, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, the International Monetary Fund, and the World Bank, together with the early organizations that later became the European Union and the World Trade Organization. His most famous decision was convincing Truman to intervene, in June 1950, in the Korean War. Historians have argued, "Dean Acheson was more than 'present at the creation' of the Cold War; he was a primary architect."[2]
Acheson came under heavy attack for his policies in China and for his defense of State Department employees accused during Senator Joseph McCarthy's anti-Communist investigations. Acheson was instrumental in framing U.S. policy toward Vietnam, persuading Truman to dispatch aid and advisors to French forces in Indochina, though in 1968 he finally counseled President Lyndon B. Johnson to negotiate for peace with North Vietnam. During the Cuban Missile Crisis, President John F. Kennedy called upon Acheson for advice, bringing him into the executive committee (ExComm), a strategic advisory group.
John Foster Dulles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
John Foster Dulles (February 25, 1888 – May 24, 1959) served as U.S. Secretary of State under President Dwight D. Eisenhower from 1953 to 1959. He was a significant figure in the early Cold War era, advocating an aggressive stance against communism around the world. He advocated support of the French in their war against the Viet Minh in Indochina and it is widely believed that he refused to shake the hand of Zhou Enlai at the Geneva Conference in 1954. He also played a great part in the CIA operations to overthrow the democratic Mossadegh government of Iran in 1953 (Operation Ajax) and the democratic Arbenz government of Guatemala in 1954 (Operation PBSUCCESS).
Allen Welsh Dulles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In 1953, Dulles was also involved in the covert overthrow of Mohammad Mossadeq, the ruler of Iran. Rumors of a Soviet takeover had surfaced due to the recent nationalization of the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company. In actuality, British diplomat Christopher Woodhouse had pitched the idea of a coup to President Eisenhower to try and regain British control of the oil company. He would later say, "Not wishing to be accused of using Americans to pull British chestnuts out of the fire, I decided to emphasize the communist threat [to Iran].
United Fruit Company
At this time in Guatemala, just 2.2 percent of the population owned over 70 percent of the country's land. Only 10 percent of the land was available for 90 percent of the population, most of whom were Indians. Most of the land held by the large landowners was unused. Arevalo was succeeded in another free election by Jacobo Arbenz who continued the reform process begun under Arevalo. Arbenz proposed to redistribute some of the unused land and make it available for the 90 percent to farm. Here is where the problem arose: United Fruit was one of the big holders of unused land in Guatemala. The pressure mounted against UFCO and finally the company complained to the many friends it had within the U.S. government including President Eisenhower and Secretary of State John Foster Dulles, saying that Guatemala had turned communist.
United Fruit Company - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Besides the disputed issue of Arbenz's allegiance to Communism, UFCO was being threatened by the Arbenz government’s agrarian reform legislation and new Labor Code.[6] UFCO was the largest Guatemalan landowner and employer, and the Arbenz government’s land reform included the expropriation of 40% of UFCO land.[7] U.S. officials had little proof to back their claims of a growing communist threat in Guatemala[8], however the relationship between the Eisenhower administration and UFCO demonstrated the influence of corporate interest on U.S. foreign policy.[9] The American Secretary of State John Foster Dulles was an avowed opponent of Communism whose law firm of Sullivan and Cromwell[10] had represented United Fruit. His brother Allen Dulles was the director of the CIA, and was a board member of United Fruit. The brother of the Assistant Secretary of State for InterAmerican Affairs John Moors Cabot had once been president of United Fruit. Ed Whitman who was United Fruit’s principal lobbyist was married to President Eisenhower's personal secretary, Ann C. Whitman.[11] Many individuals who directly influenced U.S. policy towards Guatemala in the 1950s also had direct ties to UFCO.
EIA just released weekly oil data. Crude stocks down 4.4 million barrels for the week, estimates looked for an 800k drawdown. Oil is gonna shoot to the moon on this one. To the moon Alice!!
this drawdown was surprising to me... is it due to decreased production? my understanding was that we were using LESS oil not more...
BR, I've been reading the Shock Doctrine as my summer reading and although I knew of our meddling in Iran and others countries, I was shocked at the scope of it...
YTL, we were using less fuel although we have now hit summer vacation time when we use more fuel. I believe it is a combination of decreased production and increase in use. I still don't see it as sustainable. More job losses coming means less people having anywhere to drive.
imperialist economies need destabilized resource-rich third world countries. I got this from Leo in "Blood Diamond."
If the US was imperialist we would be getting a lot of oil for free from Iraq right now. US could have taken over the globe at the end of WWII, but we didnt.... Instead we rebuilt Europe and Japan....
SI, free oil isn't in the best interests of large multi nationals...You are making the mistake of seperating the US government from corporatist interests...They are one in the same...
Basel Too (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 7:05 am replyIgnore userI wonder how many of those clunker vouchers will actually be used.
The voucher is on top of the trade in value.
Basel-nope...
The clunker being traded in will be crushed or recycled, meaning it will have no trade-in value beyond the voucher
I don't see a lot of traction on this either..look at britains results....what a huge scam....
Car scrappage scheme could be scrapped by August
| Mail Online
Full Coverage: UK new car sales 25% lower in May
Rising confidence fails to halt car sales slide - Times Online
90 per cent of scrappage orders are for foreign cars
here is the real reason....taxes....sales tax, higher dmv fees, higher insurance rates...
snip
The Government stands to make at least £100million profit on the cash-for-bangers scheme thanks to the extra VAT generated.
But experts estimate the Treasury only breaks even or starts to make a tax 'profit' on cars worth £7,600 or over sold under scheme.
Many buyers taking advantage of the scheme are choosing to buy lower-cost runarounds from makers such as Hyundai, so their overall outlay can be as little as £4,000 for a brand new vehicle.
90% of car sales in UK from cash for clunkers program are from foreign auto makers...
Fiat's at bat, Opel's on deck, and the dealers are in the hole.
Comrade Kristina (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 10:50 am
BR, I've been reading the Shock Doctrine as my summer reading and although I knew of our meddling in Iran and others countries, I was shocked at the scope of it...
Most Americans are strongly discouraged from learning anything about it. It's glossed over by the same media that brought us the Iraqi WMDs, and not supporting it fervently despite the fact that it contradicts every principle of the American Republic is seen as unpatriotic if you are a Republican. Look at tools like Ben Dover and Shadow Inventory, speaking of shallow like bird baths. How are you going to teach them anything? Facts are no burden to them.
Blackhat,
We cold have all the ethanol we (from Brazil) need if we dropped the import tariff and the Ethanol subsidy. It can not even come close to have a cost effective motor fuel. Political games at taxpayer expense.
I have played with a wind generator and am in the slow process of building a wind generator from scrap. The few new items I will purchase will bust the bank on any possible cost effectiveness. The commercial wind generators are still far from cost effective. I hear the over drive gear packs are failing way early and the costs are not near projections.
For many years all I hear it will work if we dive head in a black hole. Makes zero sense when we are in an economic free fall. Stick with what works now and play when we have the stability as we have ignored. Green is not even close to logical.
If the US was imperialist we would be getting a lot of oil for free from Iraq right now....
Politics is as much about theater as it is about power and influence. Augustus could have taken a more appropriate and descriptive title than "First Citizen", but he didn't. The "Best trick of the Devil was to convince the world that He doesn't exist" kind of approach.
-- who picks up the trash? --
I think Roomba is coming out with a larger model for that.
Seriously though, there is no doubt that many of the worst jobs have been replaced by technology, sometimes for the betterment of human life. I'm thinking specifically of all the lives lost and injuries in some of the old post-industrial factories in America that are now done safely by machines.
however, there will always be "undesirable" jobs. Only here in Minnesota (Lake Wobegon to be exact) can all of the children be above average. Kristina's point here is spot on.
There is no question that one CAN work hard and make it to the top, however that possibility has weakened over the last 25 years or so. Social Class mobility has decreased significantly in the United States as we have matured as a country.
take a poor Native American woman from the Reservation and the daughter of a prior Senator in New York. is there any question of who has a higher chance of "making it". There is no question that the senator's daughter may "work hard". however there is also no question that she will need to work far less hard than her compadre to get to the same end result.
even with free education the odds are stacked against the poor. one reason? Because schools are typically funded through Property Taxes. And thus affluent areas end up paying more for their schools than do poorer areas. And thus, many of the best public schools are in affluent areas.
There are a limited number of desirable jobs. we all must "fight" for them. This isn't Lake Wobegon.
The US doesn't want their fingerprints on the taking of Iraq oit...With regard to rebuilding Japan and Europe, someone had to buy our goods, remember we were basically the only nation that did not have its production capacity destroyed during WWII...
Well I never was the CEO of GE either, but that didnt stop me from trying my best, and I did get some results for my efforts.
If the US was imperialist we would be getting a lot of oil for free from Iraq right now.
Kristina made the point for me. The interests of the populace are not the same interests of the moneyed elite.
creditcriminal: i stand corrected. what a stupid bill.
yagij (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 11:01 am
Politics is as much about theater as it is about power and influence. Augustus could have taken a more appropriate and descriptive title than "First Citizen", but he didn't. The "Best trick of the Devil was to convince the world that He doesn't exist" kind of approach.
Winner winner chicken dinner.
ShadowInventory (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 11:03 am
Well I never was the CEO of GE either, but that didnt stop me from trying my best, and I did get some results for my efforts.
True fact, I'm the Marquis du Carabas.
So any bets on when the 10 year will hit 4%, this week perhaps?
Ministry of Truth (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 11:07 am
So any bets on when the 10 year will hit 4%, this week perhaps?
Check the magic 8-ball after 1 pm.
Lobbyist Ben Dover (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 10:00 am
Stick with what works now and play when we have the stability as we have ignored. Green is not even close to logical.
Disagree somewhat. It is clear that "green" energy at present is neither cost-effective nor sustainable without a lot of subsidy. However we need to encourage continuing research and development to aid in driving down costs by pushing down the learning curve and building expertise in the burgeoning field. That will not be accomplished by subsidizing inefficient biofuels to create fake demand to inflate the industry beyond a few small, focused players with significant innovation capabilities, and giving rebates to Joe Homeowner for installing "green" alternate power and buying hybrids and electrics.
Comrade Coinz (homepage, profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 9:25 am
"20 years is my vague sense of how long the dollar can last."
CC,
I think that since we've abandoned the gold standard, our currency is essentially backed by our assents and production of goods and services. As such, a new reserve currency requires an economy as big or bigger than ours. The Euro might be a possibility, but I suspect that if the Euro had real long term potential as a currency, then it wouldn't be needed in the first place; over the years, the economies of Southern Europe continually inflated their currencies to stimulate growth, whereas Germany pursued a low growth, low inflation approach to monetary policy. I think that Europe as a whole could have kept the relationship of their currencies constant if they'd all pursued identical monetary policies, but the policies optimal for the Germans never seemed to work that well for the Spanish, Italians, et al. As such, I think these differing requirements will result in many European countries eventually abandoning the Euro, and then we'll be looking at essentially the Franco-German economy, which in 20 years, will probably still be a fraction of the size of the US economy. China and/or India might be be possibilities, but we'll have to wait and see, and there may be other reasons why countries might choose not to use their currencies, China in particular.
xxxxx
Copper, coal, iron ore imports(stockpiling) vs. oil imports. The China syndrome
Macro Man: The China Syndrome
Kristina,
No one picks up trash anymore..the lazy society we live in drops it on the ground hoping for the wind to blow it away...I personally watched the Baja Peninsula go from beautiful to ugly just on plastic bags alone within 2-3 years...
litter bugs irk me, fine them heavy and make them do manual labor along the roadside....the trash blowing around cities now is disgusting....I flip my middle finger to litter bugs! I've been in some great arguments with people who throw their trash on the ground less than 10 feet from a trashcan..
Hmm quite the read here a little long...but Eye opening to say the least.
*****The Interest Rate Swap Apocalypse*****
Market Skeptics
( Snippet )
What's happening in bond land? The latest US govt bond auction was for $110 billion. Two years ago the average monthly bond auction total was $5 billion, $10 billion, numbers like that. The US govt finances its debt with bonds. A $2 trillion deficit means $2 trillion in new bonds needs to be issued. Approx. $200 billion a month.
Actually the trash guys in my area are union, IIRC, and make a pretty good living, by local standards.
I guess I have to side with SI, even though I'm a Democrat and probably way left of him. The world does reward hard work, given a little bit of luck, I'm living proof of that. Sometimes I'm amazed at how far I've come, considering how "at risk" my background was. Even my shitty jobs taught me something, over the years. And I say that with an attitude of gratitude.
But we could even the playing field a lot more in America, it seems to me, with decent schools and medical care for all.
ShadowInventory:
I actually agree with BOTH you and Kristina's points. They are not incompatible.
Your point: if you work hard you will improve your lot in life. I couldn't agree more.
-The Senator's daughter will go further if she applies herself compared to if she sits around being a prima donna all day.
-The Native American girl will go further if she struggles and works compared to if she wastes away collecting a check on the Reservation.
Your reverse point (equally valid): if you piss and whine all day your lot in life will be worse than otherwise. I also agree.
Kristina's point:
-not everybody can "make it". I agree here as well. It'd be hard for a mentally handicapped person to be a doctor. Or for a person with a limp to be a sports star. Or for a transgendered illegal immigrant to work for an Investment bank. Half the people are by definition going to have below-median jobs.
and my add on:
-how far you make it often depends on where you start. (Senator's daughter vs Reservation).
all are compatible, IMO.
creditcriminalslovetarp (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 11:11 am
litter bugs irk me, fine them heavy and make them do manual labor along the roadside....the trash blowing around cities now is disgusting.
I have a strong belief that you could do a lot more to combat crime by attacking it through traffic and littler enforcement than by trying to chase major criminals.
Anti-social personalities are the actual problem, and these behaviors are easy ways to catch people who are an actual menace to society.
YTL, I think therein lies the problem. Both "sides" are correct to an extent and neither can see the forest through the trees...I try to be pragmatic, of course working hard and applying oneself is important, but right of birth seems to trump that in all too many cases...
Fed buys $3.5 billion in Treasurys
Cant believe NBC printed this....
Fed Would Be Shut Down If It Were Audited, Expert Says
Fed Would Be Shut Down If It Were Audited, Expert Says - CNBC
Yay! This is a green shoot, yall. It means the world has more dollars with which to buy US Bonds.
ResistanceIsFeudal,
We have encouraged and invested tons of money on Green energy for decades with poor results. It is there but I don't think we can come close to finding it yet. We are being sold it's just around the corner. Every time we have an energy blip some clown pulls out of his shed a 100MPG car that runs on dog poop. See it's possible! We need to continue on the path of development but now relye on what does works today. I believe in science and value progress. Science gets us into trouble and can get us out of trouble but has no economic sense. Time to mow the lawn see U later.
B_R,
I share the belief although I'm not inclined to formalize that into surveillance and profiling tools. It takes a special individual to throw trash on the ground in plane sight. You have a 50:50 chance of being stabbed in the throat when you confront them and tell them to clean it up.
--bh
Yancey, don't count on it.
Treasuries getting crushed. Higher interest rates, higher oil. Those are all green shoots, right?
Let's close this gap by exporting some ficticious financial products or perhaps by bombing some factories...
Comrade Kristina (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 10:17 am
YTL, I think therein lies the problem. Both "sides" are correct to an extent and neither can see the forest through the trees...I try to be pragmatic, of course working hard and applying oneself is important, but right of birth seems to trump that in all too many cases...
Broward is also correct (the political parasite / socialite angle and "smoothing" function of communication as a dominant part of a lot of corporate culture). All these stereotypes ("hard work -> reward", "idle rich", "everything is politics") are present at any given moment in society because all types of people are present in that society. It's pretty myopic to believe only one exists or is a significant influence but the dominant paradigm and balance between them does tend to shift around.
Blackhat,
I think you mean it takes a special individual to confront the litter bug...I'm far from special and no stabbings so far...close to some fisticuffs but cool heads prevail..in california a little spanish helps too....
BR- I agree and could write tickets all day long...Heck I've had guys just toss out all there mcdonalds right in front of me while driving...I speed up, slam the brakes on and play with em a little.....I'm a truck man....
YTL, I think therein lies the problem. Both "sides" are correct to an extent and neither can see the forest through the trees...I try to be pragmatic, of course working hard and applying oneself is important, but right of birth seems to trump that in all too many cases...
Yes. But that is how life often is, with both sides of an argument actually being correct.
is America the defender of liberty and freedom? or an imperialistic bully superpower? answer: yes.
is America fighting the war against terror, or fighting a war of terror? answer: yes.
People spoke about America taking Iraq's oil. in the end, there is no practical way America COULD have taken Iraq's oil. It was not politically feasible, even if it were the true intention initially. Everybody on Earth thought America was grabbing Iraq's oil. If you thought we saw terror attacks before 911, just think of what we would have seen if we took Iraq's oil overtly!!!! Every jihadist in the middle east would wave that banner "look, America is coming to destroy us and take our oil!!!!!!"
However, in the end we DID take their oil, covertly. Or at least we will. We have replaced a dictator who was not friendly to our cause with a government that is sympathetic to our goals. Eventually they will hopefully rebuild, and then we will have another Saudi Arabia (or at least that is what our leaders hope). The war was a way to help secure future oil supplies... through diplomatic ways.
we did the same thing with Iran in the past as well, if you recall... (overthrowing their government for a US-sympathetic government). it just didn't work the way it was intended, that's all...
YTL, agreed and "blowback" doesn't seem to be part of any equation our Government figures..
Honestly, even at todays tech 100mpg is mostly a matter of putting a small engine into a small car. Fission (Nuke) power is basically practical today if people actually cared about environmental impact instead of fashion, we'd probably see more of that here.
INO Futures and Commodities - Interest Rates - 10 YEAR T-NOTES Sep 2009 (CBOT:TY.U09) Price Chart and Quote
We have replaced a dictator who was not friendly to our cause with a government that is sympathetic to our goals.
Past performance is no guarantee of future returns.
One thing I'll say on America and Americans...
in general, I've found that there is a vast difference between a government and its people.
it is my thought that Americans have not changed much with regard to their thoughts of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I think they believe in those concepts,and of the merits of spreading "freedom" just as much today as they did 75 years ago.
However, I do think that the government has changed. At one point I think the government believed in life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness and its policies reflected this. But then a very slow devolution happened and we were left with what we have now. now it uses the life/liberty/happiness arguments to coerce and mislead Americans into supporting failed policies and imperialistic ambitions.
Not sure when this devolution began, but it was already starting to be present by the Korean War.
a pity.
For those of you interested, there is a GREAT book called "the Ugly American". it was written in 1958 and I think it does a WONDERFUL job of showing how Americans do GREAT foreign relations and how they do HORRIFIC foreign relations. it is a fictional account of several short stories. a quick read, a good read, and an enjoyable read. I've never met a thoughtful person who didn't like the book.
A better headline would be "James Grant says Citi should fail"!
We have replaced a dictator who was not friendly to our cause with a government that is sympathetic to our goals.
Past performance is no guarantee of future returns.
correct. which is why I immediately followed that example with the Iranian example. we tried, and failed, there.
and then we supported Saddam Hussein to fight against our new Iranian enemies, and he became a bigger PITA than the Iranians.
And now we've replaced him with 'democracy'.
I'm not saying that the US will be successful. I'm saying that the war in Iraq was and is an oil grab.
Treasuries getting crushed. Higher interest rates, higher oil. Those are all green shoots, right?
Both point to much higher growth!
Yay! Buy consumer discretionary!
TLT is edging up against its 52-week low. Wow.
Yearning to Learn (profile) wrote on Wed, 6/10/2009 - 10:36 am
However, I do think that the government has changed. At one point I think the government believed in life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness and its policies reflected this. But then a very slow devolution happened and we were left with what we have now. now it uses the life/liberty/happiness arguments to coerce and mislead Americans into supporting failed policies and imperialistic ambitions.
I'd say about 1947. Most if not all of the Cold War was a thinly-veiled attempt at disguising imperialism in the robes of national security. IMHO.
YTL:
I think I must sound like a nit pick, but it was the broader point that interests me. Imperial pursuits masked as Democracy for the huddled masses has quite a history, stretching at least as far back as Maximilian at Chapultapec.
The world might rightly hope our mendicant status curbs that long history. And I'm not presuming you disagree.
We have replaced a dictator who was not friendly to our cause with a government that is sympathetic to our goals.
Don't forget that Saddam was sympathetic to our goals when we put him in power. We didn't care that he was evil when Iraq was at war with Iran. We also thought the Taliban was fine as long as they were fighting the Russians. We sow the seeds of our own destruction with our shortsighted stupidity and hubris.
burnside I agree completely.
however I do think that much of the "spread freedom" meme was honestly believed even by our governmental leaders... at least in the beginning.
in general movements start with a just cause, but then usually diverge from the cause over time. (some would say that the movement becomes perverted)
alambka, you are simply restating what I've already said, so you have no argument from me.
see my previous post where I said:
"correct. which is why I immediately followed that example with the Iranian example. we tried, and failed, there.
and then we supported Saddam Hussein to fight against our new Iranian enemies, and he became a bigger PITA than the Iranians.
And now we've replaced him with 'democracy'.
I'm not saying that the US will be successful. I'm saying that the war in Iraq was and is an oil grab."
When elected government officials secretly collude with bankers to create a non-governmental Federal Reserve Bank that controls the currency of the country and systematically generates inflation to allow government to spend at an ever increasing rate.
Taxing citizens to create bureaucratic government agencies and programs that fail to accomplish their mission while continuing to grow in size as politicians use them to reward the contributors to their re-election campaigns.
good articles for slow news days: Econ & Finance Articles Updated Daily