And there was another group opened a HELOC on top of their pick-a-pay option ARM.

And then there were the Casey Serins who did this a dozen of times all over the country.

And the banks took the business, sold the loans to suckers and/or got underpriced CDS insurance, and the regulators looked the other way as the party continued on until mid-2007.

Debtrius = the stuff you bought with your Home ATM

Translation - CA is burnt toast.

Somebody ran similar numbers two or three years ago to show that excessive option arms were "rational behavior". Forty percent return on money is pretty rational at an individual level, guaranteed explosion at a macro level.

The thing is, I sit here in middle Fla waiting for the monsoons to hit. We have just started hurricane season.

Empty houses get trashed. If they are under even a mild hurricane, they will get trashed sooner and worser.

I think the question is, is the social utility of keeping houses untrashed and unmolded of greater benefit than the
moral hazard of helping out worthless homeowners.

It might be. Their neighbors don't deserve the eyesore.

And those people will walk away scot-free with all their new plasma TVs and hummers.

I say bring back debtors' prisons.

Weird. I edited and it double posted.

oh, my, Watcher. Oh, my.

And for this China ruined its land and air and water.

By the way, CR, the hub like your school/money graph, and e-mailed it to the son, who is
gonna use it as wallpaper on his computer.

Thanks again.

Speaking of ATM !!

A vending machine selling tiny gold bars was launched at the main railway station in Germany’s Frankfurt-am-Main. The ATM machine, the size of a phone-booth and shaped as a gold bar, was installed in the financial metropolis of the European Union, Itar-Tass news agency reports.

The new service appeared because of the aspiration of the Germans to rescue their savings during the crisis converting the funds on their bank accounts to gold bars.
About 59 tons of gold bars and coins were sold to natural persons during the first quarter of the current year in Germany. The gold sales exceeded the same-period level of the previous year four times.
.

Gold can be available through vending machines in Germany now - Pravda.Ru

Cool. Bar quality guaranteed?

OT: Gorbie calls for US perestroika.

I wonder if they sell the gold bars in various sizes?

Gee, I wonder if this inflated corporate profits during the housing bubble? And yet many people still expect corporate profits to return to those levels.

Please tell me how our World Champion consumers will fund their next binge?

Re: the inability of cashiers to count change from last thread. After a recent transaction was rung up at my local grocery store I handed the cashier a 20 to pay and she input that into the register. I then realized by the total of my purachase that I was going to be getting 86 cents as part of my change. I discovered I had a dime and a nickel in my pocket so I handed it to the cashier as she started to make change (by reading the screen telling her what she had to give me.) As I handed it to her saying something like "here you go, I have 15 cents", a look of bewilderment crossed her face. As she stared at the two coins I had handed her, her bewilderment turned to complete confusion. I then realized I had a better chance of going home and splitting the atom in my garage than she did of figuring this out. I said "nevermind, I'll take the change back". She smiled large, a look of relief over her face, and joyfully said "Have a wonderful day".

It's not that people today are any less smart, or less educated, but technology has served to almost completely eradicate common sense, and the ability to think on ones feet.

left you a post-pig reply Liz

UFC 86*

Ultimate Foreclosure Championship

Celebrity Debt Match... Ed McMahon vs. Victoria Gotti

• $49.95 pay-per-view

You will love this, I promise.

YouTube - I'M BACK

Seems like this guy could create an amusement park for the frustrated, and let them swing away at obsolete
computers hanging from the ceiling for a fee. For a bigger fee, he would record their rants while they swung.

A greenish shoot!!

Thanks, Doodie.

"Days Of Our Lies"

ongoing financial soap opera...

Gammaboy:

Yep. I suspect more and more kids are doing this kind of analysis. Which must scare the crap out of administrators.

Most have no clue what they want to do. If they do the best bargain in education for many is two years at a community college with trade and business classes while working. No debt and at least two years jump start on any BA graduate..

albrt -

Zillow says it sold for $67,448.

If I could find a home that size with that lot I would buy it today. Sink another 40K in to make it liveable and be nice and happy providing the neighbours are not crack or ice heads.

Gamma said far better than I could have.

the son did lousy in high school so couldn't get into a Fla public college. He lived at home and went to community college. Got an excellent education. They are cutting like mad now,so I don't know how long this will stay true.

The hub did even worse in high school, but got into JHU on the basis of high SAT scores and an interview.
Times have changed.

lawyerliz - but there are some liens that cannot be eliminated

in a foreclosure, and you don't know what you are getting. Tax sales are even scarier, but can be more profitable. Requirements depend on what state you are in.

Shouldn't escrow clear all that and just write the offer letter letter contingent on that?
Sorry not a realitor or broker, just want to be able to buy a single family home soon.
(Trying to catch up, so much since I checked in around 6 hours ago.)

"I wonder if they sell the gold bars in various sizes?"

.....from what I read, Liz, they dispense 1-gm, & 10-gm.

"College is still probably a good investment for most people...."

.....not if you have to take out a loan for the degree.........unless you don't mind spending time in some debtor's prison, becoming an indentured slave, or hiding out during the next ten years - watch - that'll be next for those recourse loans. Ask any past due child support parent.

There is no escrow in a foreclosure sale or tax sale.

You go to the Courthouse steps (now, alas, a mere room), and listen to the clerk--auctioneer and bid.

And come up with the cash or cashier's check money by, ummm 2? 3? by end of day anyway, or they
sell it to someone else.

Can look at the outside. Can peek in. Can do title & lien searches.
But these cost money, so if you can't do them yourself, you may have to do them paying somebody,
and then get out bid.

If I were gonna bid, I'd find a loose door or window & have myself a walk thru, after explaining myself
the the neighbors. If you are a big male type person, thismight not work.

lawyerliz -

Been wondering where you were, KK. Asleep prolly.

Nope, just got off a 12 hour mid shift, then went shopping for homebrew supplies ($29) for 5 gallons, and $120 for groceries.

Nuke -

Do you live in Pearl City?

No, Millilani, right in the middle of the Island.

They have no reason to care! Why would you care to excel at your job if it was insecure, abusive and dead end? They are being very logical by not caring about their performance.

I used to think that urban black men were stupid, till I looked at their predicament in some detail.

Example- If you were a young black man in a housing project, what motivation do you have to excel in academics? The women around you do not stick by one man, berate you, bully you and basically want to dominate your life. Your biological father is either broke, absent or in jail. The older men around you do not care, are in jail or dead. The government treats you as a threat and opportunity to employ brain dead whites. You get inferior schooling, inferior social networks, inferior everything.. Really why would you care about excelling in academics when the dice is so loaded against you (from birth). It is just more easier to follow the dominant stream than go against it.

I have always felt that the biggest reason that successful black men marry outside their race is that they do not want a black woman as a wife. I know it sounds bad, but in almost every single instance, that I have seen, it was less about looks and more about attitude.

//It's not that people today are any less smart, or less educated, but technology has served to almost completely eradicate common sense, and the ability to think on ones feet.//

lawyerliz -
If I were to buy a foreclosure, I would be interviewing the neighbours about everything, heck I'll show up with flowers, chocolates, beer and pupus, (snacks).
My concern is not really how much damage is inside, it would be about the other liens against the property, and once again if there where any ice or crack houses, gangs, etc rampant around there.

"but got into JHU on the basis of high SAT scores"

Me too but went elsewhere. I visited the campus and was put up by a volunteer undergrad. When he opened the door to the dorm room, I said, "Hi, I'm ---- I think I'm staying with you". He said, "Want to smoke some opium?"

For black men .. absolutely.

// black women are WORSER than women of other color persuasions?//

How would you know? Didn't you say you were Indian?

Any black women commentators out there?

So how many times did people come and ask you if you wanted to sell drugs? How many of your relatives ever made decent money without committing crime? Think about that..

//I've always read & learned because I liked it. Not because someone influenced me.//

I wonder if these moronic loans (2nd/3rd/4th, way above 100% of home's value) have stopped completely?

The government is trying to make sure that other kinds of stupid loans continue (notably FHA w/ only 3% down required, plus loans where tax credits from next year make up a good part of the down payment).

Today I saw a Toll Brothers ad promoting 2.5% loans to help folks afford a home. Of course, in the fine print it says that is only a teaser rate loan. It jumps to 4.75% after two years, or something like that. Looks to me like the crisis has a long way to run. We're just in delay mode.

The greatest advantage my parents gave me (they were not rich) was a stable home life and a respect for learning. I was taught early on that knowledge was its own reward, and that difficult endeavors were worth pursuing. My father took me to museums often as a youth. I am not naturally gifted, so had I not had good parents, I probably would have turned out very poorly.

Lucifer -
Yes! That is true.
I don't know, I remember some real sh.. holes in the early 80's in my travels in Europe and the U.S. And the general impression was it had always been that way if not much worst.

Luci, maybe you should go talk to Brownard, from what I've been able to tell he really hates white women.

One man's treasure ....

I am literally posting from Argentina right now.

I've been a CR reader for 2 years and a very rare poster, but I just wanted to memorialize this post because the irony of my posting location is just ridiculous. (hopefully I do not return to the U.S. with a monetary collapse in my back pocket)

Thanks to all the great CR posters (including, inter alia, EvilHenryPaulson, mp, AllenM, Dryfly, Crispy and Cole, TJ and the Bear and many, many others (but not you Jaswant or Tennis_8)) for the outstanding education over the past 2 years).

-Gatsby (who is wondering just how many US Dollars he can hedge into other currencies before he returns)

I go there occasionally because there is a big public squash club nearby (Meadow Mill- Clipper Mill Road). Nice area, row houses are decent.

I am not a big fan of white women, either. I always had a thing for Asian women. Which is why I joined the Navy and went as far away as possible for my rate (Guam). When I get out, I want to move back to Asia and maybe work at a power company their. Unfortunately, my wife has grown accustomed to the accouterments of American life. This is one hell of a culture for assimilation.

Well, I have no special love for white women either (treating me poorly certainly does not help). It is just that urban black women embody the absolute worst of behavior as far as men are concerned.

//Luci, maybe you should go talk to Brownard, from what I've been able to tell he really hates white women.//

why should he? What is in it for him?

//I thought Broward liked all women, but just didn't want to spend much effort on them.//

Liz, took a run over to his blog one day, that's all I'm sayin'

Lucifer:

The rate of out of wedlock birth is high for all races of a certain socio-economic status. My guess is a combination of ignorance and a lack of immediate penalty. Having a bastard child used to mean social censure and immediate poverty. Now-days, due to changing attitudes and government support, the outcome is less dire. For a poor girl with limited accomplishments and few positive male role models, a child may be the quickest way to fill a void that should be filled (ideally) with a meaningful relationship, education or gainful employment.

I'm no sociologist, but that is my guess.

I try to think of myself as colour blind, but I'm not deaf and I tend to qualify women not by their race or economic background. But you get a "Hollar back girl" next to me, I'm leaving.
I am not the perfect gentleman, but I do not go out of my way to make other people miserable in public. If they are so messed up all they want to do is mess up other people, I want nothing to do with them and that includes men, women, children, dogs, pigeons.
Life is to short to waste it on self loathing idiots.

I think he self-imposes exile at exam time.

Biology is going to encourage selection of mates for advantage. In a society where race confers advantage, it could be at least an unconscious consideration. But I'm not sure how you figure that an asian woman marrying a white guy would be moving up in the world thereby, Luc.

I look at large groups, not anecdotes.

Just listen to urban black mothers talking to their kids. Then compare it to other groups including middle class black women.. I think it is about culture tinged with race.

//Lucifer you really need help. I've had several black girlfriends from urban backgrounds over the years. Wonderful.//

all ye shall witness -
I think he is still set on the "great shopping center" Visa crap.
Most Asian women I meat really don't want to come to the U.S. Too much of a culture shock and loss of their own heritage. But maybe I'm just meeting the wrong women.

They think it helps.. and that is what matters!

//But I'm not sure how you figure that an asian woman marrying a white guy would be moving up in the world thereby, Luc.//

I tread them like a lottery ticket now.

I've absolutely gotta learn to screen the psychos better. Two I've hit now, in the last 6 months. They are really good at hiding the crazy.

Barely extricated myself from the entanglement.

speed racer - Kahuna, is the Red Door Tavern still in Pearl City? I had a lewd experience with a black chick at a little Korean joint

I really do not know, but there are always little Korean joint's everywhere you go, "Bless their wonderful hearts"
Actually Pearl City is a very "local" kind of place, even in the worst dives you walk in and at least half of the people know you.

......geeze - you guys sure have issues...........All my ex-wives LOVE me.......

KK:

My wife didn't want to come to the US either. Now she doesn't want to leave. I know what you mean though. A lot of sailor spend 20 years in Japan and then retire there because their wives won't move to the US.

ZackAttack - I've absolutely gotta learn to screen the psychos better.

Hhoooww, I collect them. (Andrew Dice Clay voice).

Black Star Ranch - ......geeze - you guys sure have issues...........All my ex-wives LOVE me

Never late with the alimony I would guess.

KK, that sounds about right. I mean, unless you are approaching the world with a totally western centric view, how could you imagine that most asian women are just waiting around for their chance to abandon their own cultural heritages in order to pair up with hairy, barely civilized western white men. Ouside Bankock and the artificially impoverished post-colonial areas like the Philippines, asian women lusting for white men can only be found in those men's imagination.

The Israelies are the most racist people with such a sense of entitlement and a complete non-understanding of true history. Here's what the Israeli People think of Obama right out of their own mouths.

Feeling the Hate In Jerusalem on Eve of Obama's Cairo Address
YouTube -  

1-800-JESUS

/b/ was never good.

A little back on topic. The homes were purchased for an average of $354,000 in 2002 and at the time of foreclosure they were only worth $317,000.

Why did they lose so much value if the were bought pre bubble?

Liz, Byz, et al., on the double comment disappearing act

I think Ken said that, if you edit your own comment, then resave it, both will appear on your screen until you manually refresh at which point the older version will disappear.

I didn't quite catch what he said about what others see. I believe they see the earlier version if their screen has already automatically refreshed, but the edited version if it has not or if they subsequently manually refresh.

He's working on a fix for a smoother edit process, but doesn't want to overburden the server.

1-800-JESUS (profile) wrote on Sat, 6/6/2009 - 6:08 pm

Hoocoodanode really needs to add an "open thread" function or something similar. Then all of these idiotic off-topic discussions can take place there. The comments on CR have become much worse over time and it seems like recently they have cliff dived to where the topic of discussion is immediately veered off by a select few individuals for their own talking points.

There are plenty of structured environments for discussing political economy. They're all captive or irrelevant. Not a coincidence.

Jesus h,

Was there nothing you could do when the faux christ was President claiming he was taking orders from you?

1 currency now -yogi -
It's important to see the person, not your own baggage.
I think it is easy to get blinded with stereotypes, we all do it some small measure. If you do, you miss out on meeting some fantastic people. But at the same time, If I can try to translate for Luci -
"An assh... is and .....", learn to recognize them and go the other way.

KK:

You don't work at the shipyard, do you?

Nuke, no. But right now my office is on Pearl as a IT contractor. They keep trying to hide me in a closet and hope I go away.

When was the "at time of foreclosure" price captured? Was it at the time that the mortgage payment initially stopped being paid? Or was it figured after the many months of free rent, lack of upkeep, etc. People being forced out of homes can be pretty unconcerned about maintaining their value, to the extent of deliberate sabotage.

To repeat the gist of my previous edited out of existence by mistake post:

Debtor's prisons are a terrible idea. In general, creditors have the deck loaded for them, due to systemic factors, such as, having the money.

Concentration of wealth absolutely kills societies. Building in mechanisms by which the poor can be wrung out by the rich is downright stupid. Investment involves risk. The creditor is free to not make loans all day long.

Society shouldn't bear the civilization-murdering burden of irresponsible lending.

If this is your hobby horse, yes I mean you.

Liz, sorry about your Dad, that just sucks...

If we value the pursuit of knowledge, we must be free to follow wherever that search may lead us. The free mind is not a barking dog, to be tethered on a ten-foot chain.

Adlai E. Stevenson, Jr.

I agree.. look, all I am saying is that poorer black women have attitudes that screw up their kids lives (especially boys). Education and opportunity can change that for the better, but their matriarchal culture is a stumbling block.

//I would guess that 98% of 'black' women in America have some white genetic material.//

KK:

How is the tourism business in Oahu doing. When I was there (late 2008) it had just started to crater. Same thing in Guam. Real Estate was still doing well, though.

As for the OT discussion, what else is there to say about bad mortgages? That topic is well explored. What isn't (yet) is the long term social impact this will have on the country. Which is, sort of, what are talking about here.

Lucifer you see what you want and expect to see. Even literally.

On a more positive note, I found myself in a Karaoke Bar last night at 2 am. (That's not the positive). Some old white guy sang Alice Cooper's "School's Out". Of course, the obligatory Gwen Stefani, Frank Sinatra (sung by a black man), some new stuff, the Doors... Then 3 black women got up and did some x-rated rap song. A white guy with a baseball cap got up and joined them. There was no tension, everyone liked the variety. Well, I hate all Karaoke.

When I met him at 14 I didn't like him.

Long story.

Anyway at 17 my mom told him to go away and he asked to talk to me on
the phone and I said if you are not going to help her with my college I'm not
interested in dealing with you. He never called me for the next 45 years and died
recently. He might have called me once at work in the 80s. I'm not sure because the
secy said my brother called when I came back from an appointment. I said I didn't have
a brother. She said, oh, maybe it was your father. He didn't leave a number. I left
it at that.

And I'm on Byetta. Thank you thank you for the info. What I'm taking is supposed to be refrigerated
and it's hard to drag the thingy around with me me for 2ce a day injections. So
why hasn't my doc told me this.

You expect too much of highly paid technicians.

//So why hasn't my doc told me this.//

mhdoc (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Sat, 6/6/2009 - 6:28 pm

So very true. Really makes me wish for a regular forum (VBulletin anyone) sometimes.

Totally free market, no barriers to entry to speak of. Feel free to put it up any old time.

There's an ignore button too, by which you can silence individuals you cannot deal with.

Tax liens law apparently varies a whole lot state by state.

In Fla, it takes about 3 years to lose your house by not paying taxes, and
if nobody asks for the the tax sale it could take 7-10 years.

It's somewhat like a foreclosure, except you only get credit for the amount you've
already paid plus interest. If nobody bids against you, you get a windfall. You
still have to clear title. This can be a big problem, if the owner claims he didn't get notice.

Also, there was something on tv, where they estimated race mixed-ness, and if I recall correctly,
black peope were on average, something like 1/3rd white.

Why should he have cared? Giving money without any real parental interaction (after having to leave his house)?

//Anyway at 17 my mom told him to go away and he asked to talk to me on
the phone and I said if you are not going to help her with my college I'm not
interested in dealing with you. He never called me for the next 45 years and died
recently. He might have called me once at work in the 80s. //

Summer of our dissed content.

Don't get me started on Kazar Jews. You know, the J-People.

What are Kazar Jews?

Juvenal Delinquent -

I veer off-topic mostly because of all that cough syrup I drank.

I blame it on the mead I'm drinking like air, I need to get to sleep and it's better than a sleeping pill. With this I can wake up with the alarm going off.
Of course it's to throw the alarm out of window due to my tiny hang over, but it gets me up.
Note to self, buy more alarm clocks, or go down the valley and see if any still work.

Gosh, we could afford to buy, KK. If we could sell this house for a decent price.

hahahqhahqahahqahahah.

Why insist that one of the best blogs on the net for its topic behave the way that "regular" forums do? Perhaps what is different about this place is what makes it good?

I enjoy the personal anecdotes, but when the comment threads were more wonkish I learned a lot. That's the downside that I see.

.

Well she liked him enough at one stage.. right? So either she liked him for some attribute or she was a poor judge of character. Do you have any other options?

That is fine with me.. just do not expect child support.

//The judgement one tenders about men/women in one's youth is poor more often than not. Evidence the aforementioned number of single moms.//

Lucifer (profile) wrote on Sat, 6/6/2009 - 6:22 pm

I agree.. look, all I am saying is that poorer black women have attitudes that screw up their kids lives (especially boys). Education and opportunity can change that for the better, but their matriarchal culture is a stumbling block.

Agreed with Lucifer. The infantilization of black males is immensely destructive to black American culture.

I wouldn't get him started, Liz. Not worth it.

Does Education Pay?

Kauai,

Thanks! I've been here in BA for the past few days and am heading to Iguazu Falls tomorrow.

Yogi,

I'm not sure what that means. Sorry.

"College is still probably a good investment for most people, but rising costs mean it is no longer a slam-dunk by any means."

Don't forget the selective bias. College atendee's probably have a leg up in financial background and general aptitude that leads to higher earnings. The earnings stats should be normalized for economic background and SAT/ACT scores to be relevant. I would wager that for those with similar backgrounds, college, is not such a bargain.