NY Times: The Fall of the Mall

in

I always hated the lines at Cheesecake Factory.

OT: Where are the amounts of upcoming Treasury auctions posted?

All those pretty colors seem like a 'buy" signal.

repeat from last thread:

NorkaWest (profile) wrote on Sun, 5/31/2009 - 9:29 am

Another OT Tangent:

200 Years that Changed the World:

YouTube - 200 years that changed the world (with Hans Rosling)

I could have sworn I once heard a song by Weird Al called "Radio Shack" (to the tune of "Love Shack").

But I cannot seem to find it.

Was it a dream? Sometimes I have strange dreams.

Nemo (homepage, profile) wrote on Sun, 5/31/2009 - 9:32 am
I always hated the lines at Cheesecake Factory.

Why would it bother you? Weren't you always first?

I was inside the mall, looking for an outside chance of seeing a cougar up close, longing for Saks...

Why would it bother you? Weren't you always first? ~RD

LOL!

So much pablum to feed the sheeple, so little time.

Juvenal,

You would be better off taking a trip to the mountains of Utah, northern Cali or Oneill Park....Cougars are much hungrier in those areas

From the Pigged thread:

novanglus: I update my hosts file periodically and it prevents most of the embedded redirects to ad sites, resulting in a much more responsive page load and less nuisance. Read more here Advertisers must hate this.

For the masses (who do not know about the existence of IP addresses), Firefox (which is free) and a 2 click addon AdblockPlus (which is also free) puts a completely advertising-free internet into the hands of those without tech skills. Once my 70 year old dad told me he installed it, I realized that there is a potentially very serious move afoot.

FYI, my dad is my proprietary predictor of internet tech. Smile When he installed AOL, I knew that email was going to be huge. When he was IM'ing, that was going to turn big. So the days of banner ads / text links are numbered.

You guys back east have Costco in a mall? Every one I've been to has been stand alone,...I'm not counting those miles of big box neighborhoods as malls.

creditcriminalslovetarp (profile) wrote on Sun, 5/31/2009 - 9:41 am
Juvenal,
You would be better off taking a trip to the mountains of Utah, northern Cali or Oneill Park....Cougars are much hungrier in those areas

With 220 California State Parks closing later this summer the Cougars are going to need someplace else to prowl.

On topic. That NYT visual has got to win an award for the crappiest graphic of the year. I cannot see a single use of accepted presentation standards applied in any way shape or form. Not even the colors conform and the first meta-icon delivers no actual information. Besides, many of those stores are not "Mall Stores."

Deadmalls has a dictionary for anyone wanting to do the full semiotics treatment:

Dead Malls of America 

Today's word: LABELSCAR.

As in: The labelscar on the old Lord and Taylor reminded me I couldn't read it previously either.

C

What could possibly go wrong with having an arty ex-pat Austrian strongman as a leader?

I'm going back to the government motors thread, much more entertaining.

Disclosure, Dawg went semiotic before I commented.

C

Labelscar. I thought it was called "ustabe" as in that hulk ustabe the old Home Depot before they cut a deal with the City for a new subsidized location. Now they keep it closed to deny the site to potential competitors.

Last fishwrap standing odds:

NYT: Even Money
WaPo: 7-5
WSJ: 5-2
LAT: 5-1

Field (everybody else): 15-1

Anyone know where Treasury posts next week's auction amounts? I can't find it on their website.

I always hated the lines at Cheesecake Factory.

What did Yogi Berra say? "No one goes there any more. It's too crowded."

(Weren't you always first? Good one RD .)

Counterpointer (profile) wrote on Sun, 5/31/2009 - 9:50 am
Disclosure, Dawg went semiotic before I commented.

I'm saving this POS as a teaching tool. I honestly cannot find a single thing "right" about it; Fonts, flags, push pins, angles, line weights, content, consistency, everything.

I was at a Chesecake Factory in tony West L.A. a few years ago, and they had business ads interspaced with menu selection, and I especially liked the liposuction one just on the other page of their desert selection...

Burger King was up but McDonald's and Jack in the Box were down?

Very odd.

And what's the explanation for Radio Shack being up? Are people building their own transistor radios again to save a few bucks?

Biscuit for our favorite Dawg:

California State Worker Obligations Dwarf Deficit

Video Library - cbs5.com

I realized that there is a potentially very serious move afoot.

Yeah, AdBlock Plus is a direct threat to Google's core business. I like how streamlined Chrome is, but will not use because of all the ads. I find it amusing that Google is promoting Chrome using old MS techniques (e.g. optimizing GMail for Chrome).

Malls are right at ground ZERO in this cycle. By design, they are discretionary spending central... at the same time they are suffering a serious challenge by online retail, where price wars/comparisons are wringing the very last cent out of margins.

Business dynamics are bullish then, right ? Where do I buy a mall ?

what's the explanation for Radio Shack being up?

They sell HDTV Perverter Boxes?

When I was a pre-adult it was fairly common for kids of my age to work in the mall, but I seldom see anybody under 20 employed in malls nowadays...

Burnside, hope you read this, Thank you for thinking of me when posting the URL of the Sanctus, dal Requiem of Duruflé.

When I was a pre-adult it was fairly common for kids of my age to work in the mall, but I seldom see anybody under 20 employed in malls nowadays...

JD, I've never given it much thought, but you're absolutely right. Very disturbing trend...

Basel

The GooG-Msft resemblance becomes stronger by the day.. Antitrust suits, a browser, desktop applications, mobile platform, slowing growth. If Google comes out with music player then I will give up

I gotta say, the last few years have been a behavioral observationist's wet dream...

JD

What would scare me if I was a teenage girl is you see some creepy 40 yo guy with a MBA working behind the counter at Victoria's Secret.

NorkaWest--That's why health care must go national--needed by employers and municipalities.

About Burger King Vs all others. Don't underestimate the power of local promotions. I am shocked that CVS would be up while Walt Mart down... again probably promotions.

A secret is a story you tell one person at a time...

Saudi Billionaire With HSBC Stake Has Accounts Frozen

"Al-Sanea, who is chairman of the Khobar-based Saad Group, also manages The International Banking Corp. B.S.C., the Bahrain-based unit of Ahmad Hamad Algosaibi & Brothers Co. that has DEFAULTED on some of its debt, according to an Algosaibi official who spoke on condition of anonymity. Saad Group said al-Sanea does not manage the unit. "

Saudi Billionaire With HSBC Stake Has Accounts Frozen (Update3) - Bloomberg.com

"Ahmad Hamad Algosaibi & Brothers"

Cap'n AHAB, I presume?

Gotto Go... Basel What do you think about BHO's pick for the Court?

cheers, off to Napa for hike...finding the sun in SF last 2 weeks requires gas consumption or imagination similar to green shoots...

What do you think about BHO's pick for the Court?

Does it really matter?

If Sotomayor is rejected, there's always Harriet Miers waiting in the wings, for another chance...

Supreme Court Injustices can be impeached.

On Wednesday, July 25, 2007, the House Judiciary Committee voted 22-17 to cite Miers for contempt of Congress for her failure to appear before the committee in response to its subpoena. On Feb. 14, 2008, the full House of Representatives voted to cite her for contempt by a vote of 223–32.

(from Wiki)

That graphic looks like a typical mall registry. Wasn't that the point of it? Why should it look like the latest gee-whiz U/I masterpiece?

Dawg - absolutely. I want to know why the cars' growth rose or declined in the same period, as color coded, even though there were fewer parked q-o-q. Surely lower supply means only the more affluent could afford to shop, therefore a rebound is in the offing?

C

The graphic should ahve included Circiut City and a few other dead retailers as dark to be realistic

AD Block Plus for Firefox is awesome. Nice clean pages.

Tim waiting for 2012 (homepage, profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Sun, 5/31/2009 - 10:27 am
What would scare me if I was a teenage girl is you see some creepy 40 yo guy with a MBA working behind the counter at Victoria's Secret.

We could leverage those assets for maximum return then auction off the inflated attention before the underlying support sags and results drop below expectations.

mel - [That's why health care must go national]

Right! Oh, never mind we already have $50 TRILLION in unfunded socialized medicine liabilities already. Let's triple-double down and add the highest risk unemployed drug addicts and AIDS patients and attract even more illegals to the Obama-welfare-nation to juice the costs side!

And the numbskull argument that top notch medical care is a RIGHT seems to be a bit of a stretch. What about food? How long before we decide food is an undeniable right and the food production system needs to be nationalized, for the greater good. Cars TOO, because people need to get to the socialized medical facilities and fuel is a necessity so lets have Obama sieze that too.

This country's so f%cked.

Must run to go out and spend money to keep western civ alive.

Anyhow yesterday, after the movie, I ran down to GNC to get some chamomille tea for the mom.

First he said they didn't have it, then I said where are teas and he found it with the teas. Then he
took it over to the counter, then he said that he couldn't sell it to me
'cause the machine was closed. No cc? No. How about I give you the money for it and you just
log it in tomorrow. Oh, no, I can't do that. So you can't sell it to me? No.

He was somewhere between 18 and 22. I went away muttering about how this is why our economy
was a mess. I can be very hard to take in person.

Counterpointer (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Sun, 5/31/2009 - 10:55 am
Dawg - absolutely. I want to know why the cars' growth rose or declined in the same period, as color coded, even though there were fewer parked q-o-q. Surely lower supply means only the more affluent could afford to shop, therefore a rebound is in the offing?

Serious for a moment. If the last two holiday seasons have taught us anything it is that "traffic" is no longer a reliable indicator of sales.

Back to snark. Well obviously that's just tracking general parking. The real growth has been in valet service.

oh, this is going to be good for local budgets.

Supreme Court to Address Meeting the Needs of Special-Education Students - NY Times

In a case with potential financial repercussions for school districts and families alike, the United States Supreme Court will soon decide when public schools must reimburse parents of special-education students for private-school tuition.

The case before the court involves a struggling Oregon high school student, identified in court documents only as T.A., whose parents enrolled him in a $5,200-a-month residential school after he became a heavy marijuana user and ran away from home.

The Supreme Court had heard a similar case two years ago involving Tom Freston (ex-CEO of Viacom) but was deadlocked. Yes, the public school system is paying for Tom Freston's son's private school education, despite the fact that he's a multi-millionaire.

the first meta-icon delivers no actual information

It took me a few seconds to figure out the first ?whatever? represented 2008, the 2nd one represented change since then.

A good example of a noble attempt to graph multiple items that's confusing as hell. Would work much better as a flash animation or with no pushpins.

Yeah, AdBlock Plus is a direct threat to Google's core business.

Certainly GOOG, but a whole swath of the internet is premised on monetization from advertising. The biz pages, like Clusterstock, MarketWatch et al. have no income otherwise. Facebook/Twitter have no real income (compared to their expenses), but the prevailing wisdom is that they will figure out some way or another to monetize via ads like google did.

he became a heavy marijuana user and ran away from home.

If he became a heavy marijuana user, he didn't run too fast

Lots of us little guys depend on / enjoy that income too Smile

They didn't seem to use same-store sales. For example, is CVS corrected to account for the Longs acquisition?

RD +1

Basel

That did not sound like a ringing endorsement for the Judge.

Basel: I like how streamlined Chrome is, but will not use because of all the ads. I find it amusing that Google is promoting Chrome using old MS techniques

What really makes Chrome interesting is the underlying V8 Javascript engine. That is the future of computing - no need for MS once you have a Google Desktop with all your data in the cloud. You'' do it all in a "browser" and it will be ubiquitously accessible.

Rob Dawg (homepage, profile) wrote on Sun, 5/31/2009 - 1:00 pm reply
"I'm saving this POS as a teaching tool. I honestly cannot find a single thing "right" about it; Fonts, flags, push pins, angles, line weights, content, consistency, everything"


Agreed.

And thanks for pointing out (what should have been) the obvious. Every time I tried to figure out what was going on there, my adult ADHD would kick in from all the distracting data and my mind would wander off. Can anybody tell if there's any relevant info conveyed by the positions?

What a mess ....

bearly--gonna play golf--you like to spread hysteria--the other countries in the world are nuts--but healthier. You already pay for the uninsured in the hospital--when it's much more expensive. Have a nice day--...

What really makes Chrome interesting is the underlying V8 Javascript engine. That is the future of computing - no need for MS once you have a Google Desktop with all your data in the cloud.

I doubt it. Netbooks are too cheap, OpenOffice is free and no one trusts google to be something other than evil.

I guess a simple table of how different stores at a typical mall are doing, since one year ago, would suffice. But having gone to a graphic view, I don't see what more they could do with the push-pins etc. It is what it is, we certainly demand a lot from our free information provider, no? It didn't take me long for to figure out it wasn't interactive, it was a presentation of how various stores are doing over the past year.

About the only new piece of data I got from this awful diagram, is that -- apparently -- if you want to loose money on a McD's franchise these days, open it in a mall.

Is this accurate, or flawed inference from even more flawed data?

Book tip, especially for the few righty-tightys that babble on so very much on here...

"The True Believers" by Eric Hoffer

Nova

Agree this will kill MSFT in the long term but how will Goog make money off this? Whats to stop others from following them? Chrome hasn't been a smashing success.

Samdog (profile) wrote on Sun, 5/31/2009 - 2:42 pm
Can anybody tell if there's any relevant info conveyed by the positions?


Nevermind ... I just answered my own question. The positions don't change -- somehow this just got lost in all the noise ....

The Supreme Court had heard a similar case two years ago involving Tom Freston (ex-CEO of Viacom) but was deadlocked. Yes, the public school system is paying for Tom Freston's son's private school education, despite the fact that he's a multi-millionaire.

Good man bites dog story, but I don't think you're suggesting that reimbursement, if authorized under the law, should be means tested. Once we go down that road, we might as well means-test Social Security and Medicare.

I got a 70 year old man whose head was sawed off by a 55 year old Marine Corps Sargent this weekend in my area North Fort Myers Florida.
Nobody is talking about it in the local or national news. I guess chopping off peoples heads has become socially acceptable.
Once a Marine always a Marine.
news-press.com | Southwest Florida | The News-Press

The bigger question is why does just being a pot head entitle you to special ed. Perhaps someone should be looking into the parenting style of the mom and dad about why he is using so much and want to run away from very materially comfortable suroundings.

I was in Las Vegas yesterday, and saw CityCenter mammoth construction. Buildings are ugly and the area is very congested.

I said to myself who the hell is going to buy these 600-900 sq/ft apartments or lease all of these residential/commercial spaces?

MGM and its Dubai partners are fucked.

Chrome hasn't been a smashing success.

Again: There are no mass plugins. As soon as AdBlockPlus ported to Chrome, it would drive downloads. Smile

The bigger question is why does just being a pot head entitle you to special ed.

It doesn't, of course. That's just the historical 'fact' that promotes a certain world view.

The facts not mentioned are more likely to be the ones that gave rise to the case.

We were in Old Town, Alexandria. The strip starts at the Potomac RIver and runs to the train station. It is an ye alde quaint hood that the other end is anchored by a huge Masonic temple. In the last few years it has become a niche, artsy, tourist area with some good food. A few botique hotels now...

All the bookstores, musicstores, guns, and surplus places are gone. I think Interarms had/has a big warehouse there also.

Anyways, the retail vacancies are starting to show. As I walked along I thought about what is here that anyone other than a tourist would be a destination for anything? If I had discretionary income what would draw me here? My daughter, 17, said it had "nothing." It will die, once again, and it will take a lot of gentrification down with it.

Tim: Agree this will kill MSFT in the long term but how will Goog make money off this?

That's the $64k (or is it $64T, now?) question. Everyone expects software to be free now, so how do you monetize it? If I could figure that out, I'd be a wealthy man. Then again, having a computer and access to the internet is a Right - so perhaps givernment should just supply it all free of charge. I think that's why the GOOG execs supported O in the election - free givernment cheez to fund new software development and distribution!

Michael, you keep posting this:

I got a 70 year old man whose head was sawed off by a 55 year old Marine Corps Sargent this weekend in my area North Fort Myers Florida.

You have a problem with the old man giving head?

A&F quit being cool at my daughters high school last year. Only FOB's wear it now....

@Dirk,

The parents are arguing that he is self medicating due an emotional disorder that should have been recognized by school staff and addressed through special ed. Many of these situations are judgment calls because if a student is otherwise performing academically, how is the school supposed to discover and treat an emotional disorder? It is a real stretch in my mind and I think very hard for the parents to prove their case.

Google has the 'Android' operating system which is currently available on the G1 smartphone.... Android on a netbook with Chrome is coming... Of course Google does not want the user to be able to block ads... You can get a good Hosts file here...

Blocking Unwanted Parasites with a Hosts File

Nova,
My point is, if nobody gives a shit about beheadings in our country now, they will not in the future.

novanglus,

Don't overestimate google. Search and ads, they got right. Maps, they got right.

Not a lot since then.

Also, and I recognize this as a personal failing, whenever I hear the term "cloud computing" I have a deep and powerful urge to punch the speaker in the mouth as hard as I can.

Cheers,
prat

Michael,

No, they will not. Unless they person beheaded is a child or attractive white women who was first raped by an illegal immigrant

Your right Nova. People chopping other peoples heads off should select their victims more wisely for maximum impact.

Yep. Probably a lovers spat. Understandable. It is the fear of random head chopping that gets coverage

As I walked along I thought about what is here that anyone other than a tourist would be a destination for anything?

Only time I went there in the past ten years was to see a play at the theater. Had a nice meal nearby, and gawked at all the stores.

build-a-bear sales down 20+%! that has been the backbone of us manufacturing for the past 10 years. we are so screwed.

bought a really sweet laptop for $410 including sales tax from frys. the sales guy told me that they lose $9 on each one they sell. I asked him if he wanted me to buy some canned air(for dusting), he just laughed.

Comrade Coinz;
"how is the school supposed to discover and treat an emotional disorder?"

I did not know that schools were in the business of diagnosing and especially treating emotional disorders.

Say it ain't so.
If true, I think we've just discovered a place to do some major budget cutting.

you'd figure that the second-busiest slave port in american history would at least get a mini-theme park

In the event anyone is actually interested in the questions presented by the case pending before the Supreme Court:

Forest Grove School District v. T. A.

So far there hasn't been any final judgment on the facts, just on the law.

Doesn't appear that will change with the Supreme Court's decision whenever it is made.

bought a really sweet laptop for $410 including sales tax from frys. the sales guy told me that they lose $9 on each one they sell. I asked him if he wanted me to buy some canned air(for dusting), he just laughed.

I think Fry's makes their money from their candy aisle before checkout.

In the mall I used to frequent the clerks were in the early/ mid 20's. and some in the 30's (housewife types it was an affluent area)

Some of the teens had been complaining that the mall wouldn't hire anyone under 18 period ....

This is actual something of a problem as if we continue to allow youth unemployment to rise just as a youth bulge is coming up (we have about 14 years ) we are screwed

Also much of the "online" buying and selling is murdering the economy -- it creates very few jobs (it kills about 10 for every one created) and high price pressures.

The deflation will slow the effects a little but in the long run -- no jobs means no customers --

whats also great is 'effin computers' are wiping out cashier jobs -- self checkout is another nail in the coffin of a market society

"self checkout is another nail in the coffin of a market society "

yup, amazon has been eating bookstores' lunch for almost a decade now. i'm starting to think that non-farm payroll under 100mil is in the bag.

sneering nihilist (profile) wrote on Sun, 5/31/2009 - 12:45 pm
...bought a really sweet laptop for $410 including sales tax from frys. the sales guy told me that they lose $9 on each one they sell. I asked him if he wanted me to buy some canned air(for dusting), he just laughed.

I understand the story but I doubt the Fry's salesperson knew anything about the back end. Just try and get any reliable financial data for the company.

Prat: Also, and I recognize this as a personal failing, whenever I hear the term "cloud computing" I have a deep and powerful urge to punch the speaker in the mouth as hard as I can.

LOL! I share that urge - but I have become desensitized to it now that I have heard it so much.

I admit though, that I like the sharing of docs on GoogleDocs - I don't have to worry about what version of a doc or spreadsheet, it's always the latest. Once it gets a little better, even less need for msoffice.

We probably should not have allowed the Internet to be used for commerce to be honest. This wouldn't have stopped the end of the system but it would have slowed it and made reallocation easier

To tell you the truth I suspect that the future will probably be close to what we would have called Marx/Leninism or Trotskyism in the 80's. Its either that or the end of the state, everywhere will be a hollow state and the results would not be pleasant

Right! Oh, never mind we already have $50 TRILLION in unfunded socialized medicine liabilities already. Let's triple-double down and add the highest risk unemployed drug addicts and AIDS patients and attract even more illegals to the Obama-welfare-nation to juice the costs side!

Bearly,

I'm just curious. If it were up to you, how would you deal with an unemployed office worker whose child has a pneumonia? Or who has an infant needing a week of intensive care at a hospital?

It's strange we can go to the moon, provide billions for erring bankers (with no accountability), restrict the number of teaching hospitals which creates an artificial shortage of medical workers and helps keep medical services unbelievably expensive, pay insurance companies billion of dollars so they can preselect only healthy people to insure, and you bitch about the cost of medical care for the uninsured!

If you think Abercrombie and Fitch sales are down now, wait until credit card reform takes effect. No 19 year old with credit card lines equals no sales.

Depending on who you listen to health care runs ~15% of GDP. Add all the uninsured, keeping quality roughly the same and you'll see that number north of 25% - shrinking GDP & growing health care costs. Great combination.

Uninsured already get health care. They go to the hospital and quickly get transferred to County facilities - teaching hospitals. I think it works. Limits growth and keeps the quality of care high for those with insurance, and gives an incentive for finding/offering employment with health coverage.

Im not an economist (obviously). The low # was good because less starts will let them work
off the oversupply/overhang of the existing inventory, which many believe is understated
because the banks are not fully reporting the foreclosure situation. This all depends on if
someone will actually buy a house, because prices have not stopped going down. If this #
came out 3-4 years ago maybe things would be a little different today.

cool site check ti out Looking for more topical finance & econ articles?

As you point out, we already pay for the uninsured in the most expensive manner possible - hospital emergency rooms. Why not insure them and maybe save ourselves some money.
You've read Krugman and Wells, they conclude that national health care in other countries is as good as our care and is cheaper. I'd like to see more dialog and perhaps a refutation or two of Krugman and Wells. With none forthcoming and the debate transferred into the political arena( Harry and Louise, etc.), I suspect that Wells and Krugman are pretty much on target.
Also, why not save up to 4% a have a single payer system. (see Krugman and Wells again)
4% in this case is a lot of money and the insurance companies will almost anything to keep these money coming to them as profits.
In Illinois we don't allow nurse practitioners. This is another barrier along with limiting the number of teaching hospitals that the medical community has erected to restrict the number of medical practitioners.

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