No wonder the banks always seem to have their hands out, palms upward, needing more $$.

CR. You changed the title on your last post. Little chastisement from the PTBs? Or, should I go read the rest of the thread?

Good article from the Dallas Fed...

Richard Fisher: Don't Monetize the Debt - WSJ.com 

via Drudge

British banks revolt against Obama tax plan
British banks and stockbrokers may refuse to take on American clients if new international tax proposals outlined by President Obama are passed.
Last Updated: 12:02AM BST 24 May 2009

"British banks revolt against Obama tax plan"

someone should tell them they need not over-react - says and does are 2 different things, even opposite.

British banks are solvent?

Broward,

But you are unemployed.. jamba juice. That is so casey..

mp, I was so focused on looking at the Pan/elf/Romulan ears and uptilted brow, that I missed the horribly fitting suit.
I am indifferent to the tie.

I have long maintined that most major banks in the world are not solvent by any measure that contains more than a sliver of reality.

There is no such thing as a prime loan unless it was only 50% loan to value ratio (hah), or it is over 9 years old, and
a second was not taken out. Here anyway.

Prolly a lot of places.

I should record all the sad stories. And play them to the jailed alpha males over and over again.
Never happen. Sigh.

eras end.

we are the
peasents

I would disagree with the bulk of this outlying administrative district concept.

The NYTimes piece refers to things that were happening Nov-Feb, while the foreclosure freeze(s ) were on.
Unemployment continues to rise. I wonder what happened to prime loans in March and April?

[edit to remove an inadvertent smiley.]

surely another $700 billion bail out could fix this problem too ?

-splat

This is an unimportant nuance, but could anyone tell me what it takes a delinquent mortgage to get back in good standing? Let's say my mortgage hasn't been current for 90 days. To get the mortgage out of the 90 days delinquent, would I have to pay:
$1, one full mortgage payment, or the past 3 months of mortgage payments plus penalties. I think the answer is the the final one, but I might as well make sure. Also, is it within the right of the servicer to offer forgiveness on penalties to help put the mortgage back at current?

Are there ways the 90 days delinquent group may be misleading?

RIF,

Our current reality makes the "matrix" look good and compassionate..

Well. If NO banks in the world are solvent, then there isn't much room for imbalance. Without imbalance, it's harder for one system to crash relative to others. Not impossible, but harder. For instance, it's the wage imbalance in the US in the face of all else being equal that spells real doom for us.

Hmmm... I'll have to chew on this one.

I can confirm that the lowest level of hell is icy.

Well, I wonder if they are faithfully reporting even.

My understanding is that you have to pay all your back payments and you are instantly not delinquent, but your
credit is still dinged for a while. I'm fairly sure the servicers would forgive late fees in this environment.

Dante had a vivid imagination but I'd bet if he ever made it there...his butt would be smokin' and nor freezin'. I guess our 'LEADERS" admit to us being in the lowest circle of Hell already....They have dubbed this a credit "FREEZE".

Broward,

Women love bombastic conmen.

Casey's not only alive and free but surrounded by beautiful young women!

Those aren't women, those are RealtWhores®.

Bobn,

I think that distinction is largely immaterial.

Takes a phallic like shape to do the screwing and a receptive target to be screwed. As a man, I respect that the phallic shape may strike fear in the opposite sex...and TAXPAYERS. Screwing is what happens when the initiating party does not listen to the receiving parties needs, wants, or feelings about the encounter. Thus, dubbed forced entry or rape. Never leave the back door unattended......The gov't always strikes from behind while you are not looking.

Sorry, I was using Browards words, not mine own. I would be far more likely to call them
a$$holes, or self-appointed great men.

Because alpha men, other than being alpha, have the normal spectrum of abilities in all other
ways. When you are alpha and very able and smart and wise etc, all is well. But alas, most
alphas are not smart enough to realize that they can push their way to the top, and make others
grovel, but not perform once they get there. I don't think they can stop themselves.

It's something physical I think. Pheromones? Whatever it is, it is missing from the internet, so
we can all come out and play on equal terms.

the phallic shape may strike fear in the opposite sex.

The angle and size may strike fear into the non-opposite sex, too, you know.

I never saw one I was afraid of.

lawyerlizies cock is so big it has a gash in it...

Im sorry, Im just LMFAO.....

Ill leave now for more talk of Alpha Male dildos and tiny non-sequitors

*fixed that one.

Money is losing its symbolic value.

Whether it is electrons or pieces of paper, since loaning it out isn't gonna produce any reasonable returns,
what does it matter where it is?

The job loss effect is the biggest vicious cycle - and the one everybody ignored when saying this would be "contained".

I can take it as well as dish it out.

quick someone jam something pithy and dripping with irony into my throbbig gash of blog....

LFMAO!

Actually halo, in Miami, realization is dawning.

And people are walking.

Whether walking is immoral isn't even discussed anymore.

And nothing will work to keep people in homes intil cram downs are allowed.

I just pretend it is May 1999 not May 2009.

Cripes! So how many total months can one get unemployment checks - close to a year now?

"China buying part of the Cleveland Cavaliers."

I used to think that the Chinese were smart businessmen.
Now I think they're just inscrutable.

throbbig

its was supposed to be throbing.

LFMAO even more! Keep trying - you'll get there eventually. Remember - drinking and blogging don't mix!

Feckless Ness (homepage, profile) wrote on Sun, 5/24/2009 - 9:27 pm

Cripes! So how many total months can one get unemployment checks - close to a year now?

the dole... coming soon to a community near you. and many not near you.

There's some stuff about birth order and how you stand in sibling line, and if you are a
twin what sex the twin is, but frankly I don't remember the results. In animals that have
litters whether or not you are next to a boy or a girl in utero makes a difference too, but
I don't remember how.

I just wanna know if it was on porpoise or not.

As I understand.....they stop counting those as unemployed once they have been in the program for over 6 months. That means this has been going in currently for 15 months (officially). That would mean that in 3 months 2 waves of unemployed would have dropped from the stats and in 6 months 3 waves lost from the official count. Damn....just how high are the real numbers? As high as Cheech and Chong...I suspect. I know underemployed part timers get a pass on the official stats. I say official 10% is closer to 20% at this date in time. I see a serious drop in rush hour traffic and too many horror stories from borrowers about friends, neighbors, and both immediate and extended family out of work....and have been for quite some time.

S)

I told you they were RealtWhores. CaseyPedia knows all:

Angel Lynn - CaseyPedia

Take some corn mash, a still, some country fixins' and that's what will be paying the bills and fueling the family car! Can't give out the family recipe...it's what got us through the last tight spot back in 29'.

Lol.

Otishertz - since you went way OT - are latitude and longitude fixed or relative? I mean, land masses move. Celestial bodies move. How do you get a fix on something that's in a different place every time you measure it?

Just thought I'd ask.

ShadowInventory (profile) wrote on Sun, 5/24/2009 - 9:46 pm

Great Article! Nice one to end the weekend and start the week.

.............NORTH KOREA performed nuke test a few min ago...........

lawyerliz (profile) wrote on Sun, 5/24/2009 - 9:32 pm

There's some stuff about birth order and how you stand in sibling line, and if you are a
twin what sex the twin is, but frankly I don't remember the results. In animals that have
litters whether or not you are next to a boy or a girl in utero makes a difference too, but
I don't remember how.

amazing how many developmental factors have long-term behavioral significance apparently this little "ratio" has a lot more correlations too... "top" people in almost anything tend to have the ring-finger dominance as a rule, I guess. in men ring-finger dominance is the rule. the inverse trait, middle-finger dominance, is apparently regulated by estrogen level. I am not sure what behavioral characteristics in either case apply to women but am sure they are somewhat similar to what was found in men (but opposite with respect to norms). I also remember some research consensus that higher estrogen levels in men later in life expose us to much higher health risks. maybe someone knows more and can fill in the blanks - I am no expert, I just like knowing stuff

Thanks.

Did your finger shrink? Just asking.

"And nothing will work to keep people in homes intil cram downs are allowed."

Why would, or should, cram downs be allowed? I have little sympathy for the banks that made bad loans, nor those to took them out. As it takes two to tango, and both were instrumental in perpetuating the bubble to dangerous levels. Those who got burned in the .com bust using margin did not get any relief, so I find it hard to support any action that would benefit any debtors who did not take into account the risks of their actions.

Housing back to 2.5-3X annual income seems accepatable to me, but I am partial to a little bit of history.

I wonder what the Romans did to keep their empire from falling.

I'm just stating the obvious:

Banks can't sell property for more than it's worth anyway.

Maybe cramdowns wouldn't work either, but all these reductions in interest AREN'T working
now, and it might be a win-win situation money-wise. No sitting empty on the mkt getting
ruined by weather, neglect & bandos.

By the way, when they re-do the interest, the add the amount that's past due to the principal (or, sometimes
to the end of the loan), and charge interest on it. So, if you were underwater before this process, you
are now underwater 10k-30k more than what you were. Even the dumb are beginning to realize this
is no help at all.

I can't find confirmation of nk nuke test. I guess that was a joke?

From CNN Wire:

Earthquake shakes North Korea
Posted: 10:04 PM ET
CNN) — A 4.7-magnitude earthquake hit northern North Korea on Monday, the U.S. Geological Survey reported.

The quake occurred at 9:54 a.m. (8:54 p.m. ET Sunday) about 75 km (45 miles) northwest Kimchaek and 375 km (230 miles) northeast of the capital of Pyongyang, the agency said. The depth of the temblor was 10 km (6.2 miles).

The USGS put the epicenter of the earthquake within a few miles of the site where North Korea conducted a nuclear test in October 2006.

No other details on Monday’s quake where immediately available.

The Romans had a very good army and were very efficient about taking other people's stuff, and then establishing
roads and justice which made up for the former for a long time

the reasons for the fall range from plague to incompetent emperors to over expansion to indescriminate use of
lead in piping, makeup (!), and wine (!) to Christianity being too peaceful (!).

2000 was a Fluke. Get over it. 2000 was Enron, Worldcom Pets.com... blah blah blah. That was no more real money than the credit slosh rattling around the economy 2003-2007

I've just about had it. Happy dooming and snarking without me.

For a while.

North Korea may have conducted nuclear test - MarketWatch

RockyR - how would the USGS know whether it was a quake or a nuke? It's early yet. The story could go either way.

'Night Liz.

Disagree. The real money was def. there.

Even if real investment was there, a government surplus was not. They were still spending the Social Security "Trust Fund".

"The opposite was 2003-07 when it was mostly credit and little real investment."

Well, actual houses were built. Not too sure about the quality, or any real need though.

On a blackberry. Anyone figured out, yet, what sized bomb would cause a 4.7 mag shake?

Even The New York Times is deviating from the government script? Don't they know that this is all contained?

It is possible that 4 households will collapse into one.

well, ll, you were wondering what to do with the house sale proceeds. Maybe you should buy a bigger house? Or maybe a spare.

"News of the test hit South Korean financial markets, sending the main KOSPI share index down four percent in late morning trade, while the won dropped more than 1 percent against the dollar." -- Reuters

North Korea conducts nuclear test: report
| Reuters

North conducts nuke test

SEOUL - NORTH Korea staged a 'successful' underground nuclear test on Monday, the communist state's official media said. The North 'successfully conducted another underground nuclear test on May 25 as part of its measures aimed at strengthening its self-defence nuclear deterrent in every way,' the Korean Central News Agency said.

YTN Television quoted the South Korean weather agency as saying it detected a tremor indicating a test at 0054 GMT (8.54am Singapore Time). The US Geological Survey detected a 4.7-magnitude earthquake in the country on Monday.

South Korean President Lee Myung-bak had called an emergency meeting of cabinet ministers over the test, Yonhap said.

North Korea had recently said it would again test a nuclear device - its first was in October 2006 - in reaction to tightened international sanctions after it fired a long-range rocket in April.

News of the test hit South Korean financial markets, sending the main KOSPI share index down four per cent in late morning trade, while the won dropped more than 1 per cent against the dollar. -- REUTERS

Will that spook the market?
It's certainly a way to put a cap on U.S. Treasury yields without printing that I, personally, hadn't anticipated.
Jas's zero-coupons may get back in the money by Tuesday.

iris picked north korea blast as earthquake

Thanks, sm_landlord, noted.

.......KOSPI is now recovering to 50 % , -2.0 %......one good thing to trade in east asian market is that NK gives good opportunity many times.....thanx Kim J.I.......

LawyerLiz- "mp, I was so focused on looking at the Pan/elf/Romulan ears and uptilted brow, that I missed the horribly fitting suit."

Really, someone should go through Geithner's wardrobe and lose the suits. The one he was wearing in the interview is absolutely terrible.

If he's an off-the-rack type, his handlers should outfit him in Hart, Schaffner & Marx before their bankruptcy exhausts the supply. Buy him some Countess Mara neckties--not the psychedelic ones--and some Hathaway white shirts. All Made in USA by union workers.

I know, I know, Hathaway is gone now but, if you check around, there's still some supply available at a price. Hathaway was the last of the great American shirt makers, especially the white button-down.

By God, you can say what you want about Eisenhower, but knew how to dress, so did Kennedy. Eisenhower always wore Hart and I read that Obama is partial to them as well. Kennedy was partial to Brooks Brothers, but the stuff they sell now is crap, probably made by child labor in some Asian sweat shop.

@psychodave,

There are any number of geo-political risks that could erupt any time to throw a spanner in the works. Israel bombing Iran, instability in Eastern Europe, India and Pakistan, or just the collapse of Pakistan.

The N Korea nuke test could goose the USD a little.

I read somewhere there's a formula where for every % drop in home prices, there will be X number of foreclosures. By the time we get to an almost certain 4 million foreclosures,-prices will have dropped almost 40% from peak. Interesting formulation if it holds--another 10% drop in prices, another million foreclosures. We could be on track for up to 8 million foreclosures and probably close to $3 trillion in losses just on the residential side. Where's Ben going to hide all this toxic waste??

.............@Outsider...........my pleasure..........

Crazy that the sk indices are already recovering. I guess they figure il won't actually do anything with his toys. They are probably right.

Blackhalo,

There is a something of a power discrepancy between underwater debtors and the banking elite. Those who are underwater are in no position to demand anything. And when the people voiced their outrage to Congress, they voted to bail out the bankers anyway. The system is broken.

"The N Korea nuke test could goose the USD a little. "

dollar is right where it was at the close on fri. been trading for six hours plus.

Coinz, white coveralls are the uniform of a mechanic. Blue coveralls are the uniform of a machinist.

Now you know. I forgot to mention that I also have some blue coveralls.

My coveralls, like my Red Wings, are Made in USA. My Red Wings are black and are always kept polished. My coveralls are starched, winter and summer.

I do not, however, expect everyone to weal starched coveralls.

If I'm expecting visitors, I wear a white shirt and black tie with my coveralls. That sometimes makes a better impression than a business suit.

Topic Galleries -- South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com

Fort Lauderdale "slashing" police overtime pay.

A new trend emerges?

@mp,
You continue to impress me. Keep up the good work

[ 3% of US GDP between the height of the boom from mid-96 to mid-00 was real investment]

Yeah right. Margin credit to buy up pets.com shares and thousands of other IPOs is real money just like securitized mortgages were real $$$$. Just another ponzi scheme, only the '98-'00 bubble involved paying taxes on gains so it got extinguished quicker.

Outsider,

Local governments are going to take serious budget hits across the country. Typically, 70% of those budgets are police and fire, so if any serious cuts have to be made, they have to come form those departments.

"Typically, 70% of those budgets are police and fire, so if any serious cuts have to be made, they have to come form those departments."

I would guess that education expense is greater than either of those.

City Budgets - Expenses

Google says streets and sewer, I guess. Schools in WA must be separate.

token on topic comment:

the economy sucks.

Education is usually a separate organization, part of state government, not part of the local government. They also have different boundaries and districts that don't overlap neatly with city borders.

Yes, education budgets are usually higher than local government, but they are not related.

I'm out for the night.

In our area, local townships and municipalities and banding together to form "regional" police forces. They can then save on admin, etc and still keep cops on the beat.

Most of our firemen are volunteers, but they're contributions are starting to suffer.

hello, otis! didn't mean to neglect you, if that's what you mean.

John Kenneth Galbraith's 1954 book The Great Crash - 1929 the "Principle of Maximum Ruin" played out in 1929:

"A common feature of all these earlier troubles [previous panics] was that having happened they were over. The worst was reasonably recognizable as such. The singular feature of the great crash of 1929 was that the worst continued to worsen. What looked one day like the end proved on the next day to have been only the beginning. Nothing could have been more ingeniously designed to maximize the suffering, and also to insure that as few as possible escaped the common misfortune.
The fortunate speculator who had funds to answer the first margin call presently got another and equally urgent one, and if he met that there would still be another. In the end all the money he had was extracted from him and lost. The man with the smart money, who was safely out of the market when the first crash came, naturally went back in to pick up bargains. ... The bargains then suffered a ruinous fall. Even the man who waited out all of October and all of November, who saw the volume of trading return to normal and saw Wall Street become as placid as a produce market, and who then bought common stocks would see their value drop to a third or fourth of the purchase price in the next twenty-four months. ... The ruthlessness of [the stock market was] remarkable." (p. 108)

Filed under Damn it feels good to be a Banksta

TARP Warrants Show Banks May Reap ‘Ruthless Bargain’

Banks negotiating to reclaim stock warrants they granted in return for Troubled Asset Relief Program money may shortchange taxpayers by almost $10 billion if Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner’s first sale sets the pace, data compiled by Bloomberg

TARP Warrants Show Banks May Reap ‘Ruthless Bargain’ (Update2) - Bloomberg.com

ingeniously designed to maximize the suffering, and also to insure that as few as possible escaped the common misfortune.

That's what I expect from real estate over the next ten years.

@homedad

As the years have gone by, I've found myself taking responsibility for more and more things "the system" has mis-handled. My son's education is but one example.

Your story of the school bullies reminds me of a problem my son experienced. He attended public school and, at the age of 12, was assaulted twice on the same day by two young punks in full view of faculty.

I took him into school the following day and, with a smile, the principal said, "I'll bet I know why you're here."

My reply was, "No, you stupid son-of-a-bitch, I'll bet you don't."

And with that, I withdrew my son from the educational system and educated him myself. In retrospect, other than having married his mother, it was the best decision I have made in my entire life.

It was a hell of a lot of work, and I wouldn't recommend it to everyone, but it worked for us.

Outsider
Uncertainty with future taxes and enough inventory to have prices falls for this and next summer are the 2 reasons why I, in general, would not advise anyone to purchase now.

Late Night Cranes

Australia lifted its short selling ban.
8 months it lasted. Threatened to re-impose it if things go down.
Can I get a Charlie Brown "Oh, brother!"
..
also
SEC bans staff from trading
Posted by Gwen Robinson on May 25 03:49.
The US Securities and Exchange Commission imposed tough new rules on trading by employees, following a probe into the dealings of two veteran enforcement lawyers, reports the WSJ. The rules will, for the first time, prohibit staff from trading securities of companies under SEC investigation regardless of whether employees have personal knowledge of the investigation. Staff will also be required to have their brokers supply trading statements to the SEC.
Please everyone, hold the applause

geithner can fuck a goat duck

Outsider,
You would be surprised at the losses people willingly eat in order not to admit they made a poor investment decision. Also, at least you have the freedom of mobility should the taxes be drastic. Also, the price of houses should drop inversely in proportion to the increase of tax or mortgage cost.

"I hear you. But I suppose in regard to the taxes, if you rent the higher taxes are going to be built into the price to rent?"

But it is a lot easier for renters to vote with their feet.

Good night and good luck.

YouTube - Good Night, And Good Luck

EHP, if you're still around, I take it you are a renter and not an owner.

A couple years ago we sold a house and contemplated whether to buy or rent. This is why we bought: having cash in the bank would most likely decline as savings are penalized in this system. If inflation occurs and we can hold on long enough, a fixed rate only gets easier. And having 3 kids and a dog, combined with a shortage of rentals where we are, and a pmi payment the same as a house rent payment, we bought. If I live in this house till I'm a ripe old age I couldn't be happier, so if the value goes down, as long as I can make the payments (which would depend of course on employment security), that's fine with me.

But I agree with your point in most situations, too. Esp. if you're young.

"I'd be interested in hearing more about how you educated your son. Did you pull it off with a full-time (or more than full-time?) job?"

Yes. Part of his education was independent inquiry, part text book, part working with me, part as an apprentice. He began an airframe/powerplant mechanic apprenticeship when he was twelve. When he took his three federal examinations at American Airlines, I was told by the manager there that he tested higher than anyone else who had gone through their facility. He's also a pilot, a machinist, a businessman and, most importantly, a damned fine human being.

I'll stop there.

I'm very tired. Good night and good luck. Again.

I read the NY Times article linked by CR and am puzzled by the scenario of the couple losing their home. You see the article says they bought a manufactured home with a mortgage and placed it on land they already owned.

So, I can see the builder taking the home back, but does that mean they literally came over, picked it up, and drove off with it?

Seems reasonable they could do that, and I can't think of any other answer. Otherwise, how could the builder then sell it to anybody else while it is sitting on land owned by this couple? Would they stipulate that in the sales agreement? (Must pick up and move home or buy land from previous owners).

It seems unlikely I will ever need to know how this works, but I'm curious all the same. Anyone have any experience with this kind of foreclosure?

Maybe now, homeowners in denial will see the light about selling midlevel to highend properties. Just looking at market inventories, combined with job losses, should ring a bell.. On the Westside of Los Angeles, some areas (Century City) are already looking at over 40 months of inventory at the current sales rate. Beginning later this summer, with Prime, Alt-A and Option ARMs on the horizon, we are looking at a big leg down in real estate.

WestsideREmeltdown

Most mortgage borrowers that have a mortgage with a federal bank supervised by a federal regulator such as the Office of Thrift Supervision are under the illusion that should any type of problem arise ,the bank and the regulator under federal law provide that there is equity or fairness for the mortgage borrower to reslove their problem. That is the myth, that is the big lie. The mortgage borrower has no voice and no rights to object to, contest or to legally question their federal mortage banker under the same regulatory system that the banks lend its money.

Therefore most mortgage holders cannot afford the "Legal Dance". That is where the borrower pays for the band(court) while the attorneys do the dance to the tune of "show me the money" . When the money runs out the dance is over.To complicate this issue most attorneys do not have the skills, the knowledge or the experience to enter a foreclosure issue that involve federal law,banking law,regulators regulations,appraisal law or the hourly rate that the average person can afford.

The answer-Chapter 7 Bankruptcy is the solution if you qualify.

Banks operate with impunity, answer to one and are not afraid of the borrower since the borrowers has no rights. The Office of Thrift Supervsion in writing on 12-19-2006 stated that there are" NO Federal Consumer Banking Laws" so they are unable to do anything.That means the regulator is the banks buddy. Writing to the federal regulator is like writing to a mythically Santa Clause- they both are fairy tales.

Accordingly the Congress and the White House have pumped billions into a very protected class of people, the bankers. The government stated this was to save the economy. To save the borrowers- nothing. The government programs are shallow,hollow and are really an insult to millions and millions of mortgage borrowers in the United States. These programs do not work because they are designed for the mortgage borrowers to keep paying on a dead horse. A horse ironically that was shot dead by the Bankers.

When the financial system is unfair and the playing field is not level, when the wealthy and powerful financial system is government favored
then the goat is you and me.

That phrase when the bank has a foreclosure they loose money. That is an out right lie. Besides the the Banks attorney and the Banks accountant and the US Tax Code and the Billiions and Billions of dollars that the Congress gives these banks they are up to their ass in money.

The future looks good for the wealthy, the more foreclosure programs the more they make. For you and me-there will be millions and millions of foreclosures in the future, this financial castration of the American working class is by Congressional design.

It is kinda of like the Iraq war- in Alan Greenspan's book "The Age Of Turbalance "he states this war is about oil". To me that means big time money.
The foreclosure crisis is about wealth and power-Big Big time money. The proof-no accountablility for the ones that brought you to the foreclosure dance.

I can't speak for the millions of those foreclosure victims. ( Victim is a borrower that trusted his banker and the banker took adavntage of that trust)
For I am one of them.

Michael LittleBig
Cleveland Ohio Foreclosure case # 2006 cv 584018