In suburbs and small towns, malls often are the only major public spaces and the safest venues for teenagers to shop, hang out and seek part-time work.

Not their job and more's the pity that we've eschewed our community obligations such that it takes a mall to fill this vacuum.

2x+ good, got offaled, last thread...

Any other Joseph Campbell fans amongst us?

Much of what's occurring in matters financial is a cult-like feeling that because capitalism won out over it's bitter rival communism, it was the true path obviously, and could do no wrong.

Breaking the news to the hoi ploy, that the whole nine yards was just an elaborate computerized version of something John Law tried to pull off almost 300 years prior, would shatter the myth of capitalism, and thus everything the United States stands for...

Imagine what the average Russian must have thought, when communism went away-all of the sudden?

Mythappens...

Ummm, given the spending habits of many of my clients, I am all for restricting credit card purchases.

Credit cards in America
Knocked off balance
May 21st 2009 | NEW YORK
The Economist print edition

"The rise in unemployment—which card defaults track and may now be exceeding, given the recession’s severity—has spattered a once-profitable business with red ink (see chart). David Robertson of the Nilson Report, a newsletter, expects card write-offs in America to hit $94 billion this year, up from $61 billion in 2008."

Premium content | Economist.com

mew thread on Friday before holiday is like good crack....

What am I missing - 100 malls that doesn't seem like ?

BTW a mall parking lot doesn't have to be "ghostly"- 10% fewer people with the remaining 90% buying 10% less would result in sales being down 19% - catastrophic for most retailers. I doubt whether 10% fewer cars in the parking lot would make it appear "ghostly"

Oh, and spending down for upper income folks.

That being over 90k.

'Scuze me, but an over 90k income is really nice 'n' all, but it isn't upper income, except in places that are very cheap to live in.

I think it quite likely that the "upper income" folks who are making between 90k and 100k are collectively worse off than some far below.

The more some people have, the more money they spend above their actual income.

Oh liz, I just saw I missed a thread on Bank United in Coral Gables, isn't that the bank you were waiting for to have a pizza party? I think my bank is about to go here as well. A courier for them said earlier this week the microfish machine they use to take pictures of checks was broken and they needed six hundred bucks to fix it, they decided they "trusted him" and sent him on his way with a few million dollars worth of undocumented checks...Today might be the day. They already have a cease and desist and I know a very large CRE loan collapsed on them not long ago. A person on a local forum mentioned they just recieved a notice that their mortgage with them has been sold to another servicer...

I was being stalked by a cougar in a ghost mall, somewhere on just the other side of nowhere next to the Hot Dog on a Stick, when I spied her quadragenrian thighs and let out a sigh. She took my hand and we hailed a taxidermist, climbed in the back and sped off to her lair...

JD,
I am a Joseph Campbell fan, although I have moved on from his starting point. How we learn languages fascinate me and I truly believe the collective unconscious is far more powerful and real then most give it credit for. Also believe free will is not as clear cut as we think it is. But in terms of Campbell, if you read the book of Ecclesiastes in the bible, and think about the nothing new under the sun meme...then everything possible in human thinking comes from the linguistic stories we tell. The very box we think in is formed by stories and words. It takes someone unique or insane to cut through the programming.

One industry rule of thumb holds that any large, enclosed mall generating sales per square foot of $250 or less

Just a general note: It would be smart to explicitly add "per year" or "per month" to the rates.

CRE is usually per year, but there are exceptions. How I found out: During the tech bubble, I was listening to a Bostonian friend bitch over dinner about office rates, which had hit $20-$25 in his neighborhood. I was dumbfounded, because rates in Palo Alto had hit $12/sq ft, so my company settled on a South Bay $4/sqft place.

It wasn't until dessert that I figured out he was talking "per year" and I was talking "per month".

Yep. Upper income ought to mean something tho. And upper 5 per cent might be meaningful.

Wonder what the upper 5 are doing?

Ringing up nearly $41,000 in monthly expenses, including child support to eight kids and his mother’s house payment, former NBA guard Kenny Anderson filed for bankruptcy in October 2005. How did his estimated $60 million dwindle to nothing? Easy. He kept 8 cars in the garage of his five-bedroom Beverly Hills home. He gave himself a monthly allowance of $10,000 that he dubbed “hanging out money.” He regularly handed out $3,000 to $5,000 to friends and relatives. Finally, he lost $5.8 million in a prenup agreement. Anderson, it seems, could not hold a dollar if it was taped to his forehead.

Malls reinforce America's chronic consumomania condition. The more that close the better.

Convert them into public libraries.

"The decline of the retail sector isn’t just hurting commercial landlords… regional banks are taking it on the chin, too.

This is because many local commercial landlords use smaller regional banks for their borrowing needs - and these banks are enduring huge levels of delinquencies and defaults. Many are not likely prepared for the tidal wave about to hit them.

This year alone, more than $200 billion in commercial real estate loans will come due. That number balloons to $1 trillion when you include the next few years. It’s likely that many of the borrowers won’t be able to pay back the principal when it’s due, or be able to refinance the loan. That spells trouble for the banks."

http://jutiagroup.com/2009/05/18/the-retail-sector-two-ways-to-profit-from-america’s-empty-shopping-malls/

Got a basketball, Jones*

• keeping up with

night trains own family wouldnt care for him, some golfer he met paid for his final days.... pity..

Imagine what the average Russian must have thought, when communism went away-all of the sudden?

I've said this before on CR, but I think mid-'90s Albania offers a far better, and more insightful, parallel.

For five or six years after the Wall came down, Albania was the economic envy of Eastern Europe. It turned out, however, that the vast majority of the "wealth", and more than a fair bit of the GDP itself, was based on nothing more than pyramid schemes. Sound familiar?

Everything went to hell in the winter of 1997, when all the pyramids collapsed. Disgruntlement turned to outrage, turned to protests, then to armed rebellion. In less than 90 days, Albania went from a workaday post-communist country to Mad Max.

Not making predictions here, but Santayana's words do hold true.

DXY not so quietly slipped below 80...

i like latrell turns down 21 million because its too low so they tell him to pack sand... ends up with nothing...

That is a lot of public libraries to be opened. Of course, I think having enough libraries can't hurt. I'm sure after the shutdown of a mall there could be a more interesting resurrection of some new development to be built in its place.

Best regard,
Michael Fridman
The “MAN” Experience

@Fiduciary Doodie

The article is wrong. Deuce McAllister Nissan went bankrupt. He did not personally go bankrupt himself. He was an investor in the dealership, along with some others. Mainly Deuce provided his name to the dealership, along with a little money. Financially, Deuce is doing fine, though it might help if he signed a contract and started playing football again.

By the way, all the cars are gone at the dealership, although the lights are still on. Go figure.

"Liz, testy, although the market going up seems to have placated most."

So, a rising stock market is like a rising B.A.C.?

I think they can depend on retail spending to decline, though what "at the current rate" has to do with it is a mystery. When you consider what's in a mall - they're centers of discretionary spending, after all - it puts them right at ground zero. How many shoe stores, how much goth drag do you need right now?

lifeguard1999

really! how many lend their name.....i remember Fridge (the bears) from outside Aiken SC , bought the trailer park all his family lived in, kept it as a trailer park and built a huge mansion next to it, stones through, then started a nice masonary fence around it and then went BK, nothing left, the brick masons just left everything there...

still had the trailer park i guess...

“I’m not broke; I’m just not liquid,” 45-year-old Holyfield claimed when he narrowly avoided charges that he was around $9,000 behind in court-ordered child support payments.

Looks like someone's been taking lessons from Ben and Timmeh.

In 2007, the U.S. median annual household income was $50,233.00.

Is Uncle Sam Creditworthy?

To view our impartial assessment, please visit:

The Value at Risk

Yep. Upper income ought to mean something tho. And upper 5 per cent might be meaningful.

FYI, Liz - as of tax year 2006, the upper 5% AGI threshold on Fed tax returns was $153,500. Upper 10% was $108,900. Pretty sure these are household figures, not individual.

I work with and know a lot of folks in that band between 5% and 10% - we're there ourselves FWIW - and don't know what the top 5% are doing or not but there's been a sea change among my peers just in the last 6 months or so. I've always been kinda a cheapskate, but I joked on another thread recently that these past few months are the first time I've been able to mention deals I got on Craigslist in polite company without people looking at me like that was one step up from rooting through a trash dump ...

DXY not so quietly slipped below 80...

I think what we're seeing with the dollar and the bonds is what forced the Fed to raise rates in the 1930s. We could be in for a repeat.

An economic system that depends on your creditors being suicidal is not sustainable in my view.

Old National Bancorp in Evansville offered 600K initially and it took 10 days of back and forth negotiations the CEO said on TV a cpl of days ago...

I saw Elvis @ a laundromat in Pocatello, Idaho last summer...

I think he's homeless now, because he hit me up for spare change.

Thar she blows my lads.

TNX off to a running start this morning. Off 7.4bp and and counting.

What if gamblers in casinos used similar 3 letter acronyms as Wall*Street to describe their action?

BJK
CRP
ROU
BAC (a natural!)
SLT
KNO
POK

A friend told me there is one heck of a lot of herb in the marketplace currently, and wholesale prices are coming down substantially.

Lazy-Faire Stonernomics

@Black Dog: What you describe matches what I see going on around me (in an area with relatively low unemployment), and this is what scares me: we are a nation of shopkeepers now...all we do is sell each other stuff - that's the whole "Service Economy"...and I wonder where/what we will start producing to stop that downward spiral. If small businesses are getting hammered, who's hiring and paying wages? Who's buying?

Instead of the disenfranchised 12% of LA rioting, imagine the economic disenfranchised ??% of LA rioting over entitlements being ripped asunder?

Care for a little shopping center owner schadenfreude ? http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/20/realestate/commercial/20xanadu.html?_r=1

Cheesecake Factory is the anchor restaurant?!? Who the hell designed this place?

ll - too funny

Funny, wasn't the devil traditionally supposed to be very expert at all things
sexy? That movie with Pacino and Keanu R?

The malls near me are still full of stores. Strip shopping centers and warehouse space seem to be worst in Miami Dade.

Forked tales come with the territory, when you are Diablo.

Gold ask 960.80 +5.9
Silver ask 14.77 +0.18
Hoocoodanode?

Rob - the cali elections were this week, but I hear no buzz. Is it just life as usual? nothingburger to life as usual?

4shzl (profile) wrote on Fri, 5/22/2009 - 7:02 am
From the LA Times article:
"David Axelrod, senior advisor to the president, said in an interview. "Whatever we do for one state, there will be other states who also will want to do that. And there's a limit to what the government can do.""

Yeah well they should have done some scenario planning and projections before they shot their collective wads giving trillions to the 19 too big too fail banks and wasting billions more like on GM.

Obama is going to learn a hard lesson and Obamanonics is going to get uglier.

lawyerliz (profile) wrote on Fri, 5/22/2009 - 10:12 am

No wonder he has to pay!!

Lucifer is pretty astute about many things. Forming human relationships, not one of them.

Edit: I find it interesting that, he's obviously interested in social justice, but that doesn't temper his misogyny.

So, a one-$ize-fails-all scenario takes out 99% of the assets of Americans, including those of you that persist in playing in the casino Wall*Street, making mirage-like gains...

The things that retain value are real assets, like farmland, etc.

The real "winners" during the Weimar Hyperinflation were the country people with farms that supplied city people with food, and were well-off and ended up with all the goodies (pianos, antiques, cars, etc) that the city people used to own, as money lost all semblance of value in 1922-23.

shill (profile) wrote on Fri, 5/22/2009 - 7:22 am
Oligarchs Gain Control of Bank United
It's a small club.

It's clear as day that Obama and his Wall St bought and paid for economic team have put all their chips on the Banking Oligarchs and I hope they fail !

The Quiet Coup The Atlantic Online | May 2009 | The Quiet Coup | Simon Johnson was a nice read but ain't going to happen
If the IMF’s staff could speak freely about the U.S., it would tell us what it tells all countries in this situation: recovery will fail unless we break the financial oligarchy that is blocking essential reform.

From 1973 to 1985, the financial sector never earned more than 16 percent of domestic corporate profits. In 1986, that figure reached 19 percent. In the 1990s, it oscillated between 21 percent and 30 percent, higher than it had ever been in the postwar period. This decade, it reached 41 percent.

burnside,

I have never understood why "middle class" or "working class" people think that the less fortunate are on the street because of their own actions.

If you were a rich person, you could get a doctor to prescribe you Adderall for 'Adult ADD', and you can go to a drug treatment center if things really went to hell. But if you are poor or middle class, you are in jail or without a job because of meth/ crack use..

" I have never understood why non-rich whites look down upon the less fortunate"

Lucy has a reading comprehension problem...making an observation is not the same as making a judgement call.

Outsider (profile) wrote on Fri, 5/22/2009 - 7:21 am
Rob - the cali elections were this week, but I hear no buzz. Is it just life as usual? nothingburger to life as usual?

Au contraire. This is the part where everybody on the beach is wondering where all the water went.

I'm going to put a debt clock up on my site as soon as i get a chance. It is getting too volitile to track with updates. As of this morning the new deficit is $24b through June 2010. Up from $21.3b yesterday and $15.3b May 18th and "balanced" in February (actually $8b, but that's inside baseball). Geithner has said the Treasury won't guarantee Cali debt issues. What he really meant was that the Fed cannot guarantee given their own problems. Last night Arnold was forced to back away from RAW scheme when it became obvious that it would be negated by the courts. Fed v CA is about to reach a cumulation with the State preparing to hand over half their illegal alien prison population to the care of the US. 19,000 at a marginal cost of $42k is a savings of $800m. Chicken scratch in these times but symbolic. D.C. doesn't realize it yet but if they don't print for California then California might change the relationship to the point where it can print its own debt. Empires don't fail from without.

Ever heard a "CONservative" talk. How were Nixon, Reagan, Bush, I, Bush II, countless state officials, DAs, Sheriffs etc elected.

Actions speak louder than words.

//Lucy has a reading comprehension problem...making an observation is not the same as making a judgement call.//

"Rob - the cali elections were this week, but I hear no buzz. Is it just life as usual? nothingburger to life as usual?"

By the time the voting started, the only unanswered question was, "will 1F (restricting raises in deficit years) set the record for a passing margin on a ballot initiative?" Arnie even had time to go hide behind Obama's skirt.

It's a country chock full of Walter Mitty Sobchaks, a good percentage of which... just want to use their weapons in anger~

Black Dog--great post. (But don't worry, the BLS B/D model indicates small business hiring in droves! snark off). Was in Vegas for Interop this week and was shocked by seeing white, older middle age and senior citizens working the fast food counters at the airport. And the taxi cab driver on the way to the airport mentioned how he hasn't paid his mortgage in 3 months.

Commodities are the new "flight to safety"? Heh... guess I don't feel so bad about jumping out of TBT early yesterday... bond sell off didn't get major national news... everyone watching the stock prices. With the dollar selling off does that mean that being short a stock index (in dollars) is a bad thing, since you're going to be fighting the value of the dollar as well?

We are all Macke now!

" I have never understood why non-rich whites look down upon the less fortunate"

Lucy has a reading comprehension problem...making an observation is not the same as making a judgement call.

Gotta side with the Devil on this one. Sure seemed like CK was laughing at the plight of some poor homeless guy.

Our society is doomed!!!

U.S. state seeks laid-off traders to teach math
New Jersey seeks laid-off traders to teach math
| Reuters

CK was laughing that it will be more secure for folks to have 3 squares and a roof in jail than to face starving on the street. Not ha-ha funny. I-can't-believe-how-things-have-sunk-this-far funny.

Sociology is lost on this blog.

Whadya all think about that same-sect marriage in Florida yesterday?

Where's Anita Bryant, when you need her?

Just say know to Polygamoney Marriages!

One industry rule of thumb holds that any large, enclosed mall generating sales per square foot of $250 or less -- the U.S. average is $381 -- is in danger of failure.

Sales are not profits, so places exceeding $250 only by clearing inventory at loss do not make the list but are also likely to fold.

Our society is doomed!!!

U.S. state seeks laid-off traders to teach math
http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE54L2W120090522

At least they aren't teaching personal finance.

And hey, they probably have learned a few things about probability.

(Timmay throws Lassie a stick and she doesn't come back...)

What's up girl? are you trying to tell me something about the economy?

CK was laughing that it will be more secure for folks to have 3 squares and a roof in jail than to face starving on the street. Not ha-ha funny. I-can't-believe-how-things-have-sunk-this-far funny.

You're probably right given her posting history, although I admit I was taken aback by her comment.

"To cook with kudzu, Choose only the smallest, most tender leaves. Large leaves are too tough. Even the small leaves have plenty of body. Fresh and tender, the leaves have a flavor similar to that of a green bean. That's because kudzu is a member of the legume family."

Kudzu recipes

kudzu is an edible legume.

finally! an answer to the kudzu problem. Now if they could only find a recipe for roaches...

California's demise might be NH's real estate boom. Maybe that's the next bubble - folks fleeing the crashing states for more affordable places.

dawg "Then the fun starts when it becomes obvious that senior debt holders are about to become unsecured creditors."

Please tell me Pimco has a large stake. PLEASE!!

In Pillars of Hercules Paul Theroux's description of Albania is frightening. A good book btw

"Now if they could only find a recipe for roaches..."

In a pinch, bite off the head, and swallow whole. (Apparently the abdomen can be non-tasty.)

Simmer cockroaches in vinegar. Then boil with butter, farina flour, pepper and salt to make a paste. Spread on buttered bread.

Trim off legs, head, butt and wing covers. Crack it open, and grill for 2 minutes.

Anderson, it seems, could not hold a dollar if it was taped to his forehead.

The man is destined for Congress.

"I think it quite likely that the "upper income" folks who are making between 90k and 100k are collectively worse off than some far below.

The more some people have, the more money they spend above their actual income."

90K seems pretty hight to me. Of course that would mean one should be able to afford a 270K house loan. I wonder how many of those 90Kers exceeded that helping cause the pickle we are in.

Fiduciary Doodie writes: Obama Snubs Kids for Steelers?

Pray tell, FD, what does this have to do with economics or housing?

bearly wrote: "Malls reinforce America's chronic consumomania condition. The more that close the better. Convert them into public libraries."

Canadians have beat us to it. London Ontario has one of its main library branches as the anchor tenant in its downtown mall.

NW

Juvenal Delinquent, I am holding my threadbare copy of The Hero with a Thousand Faces. I may reread it this weekend. Mesmerizing when your read it the first time.

DCRogers (profile) wrote on Fri, 5/22/2009 - 11:52 am reply Ignore user Fiduciary Doodie writes: Obama Snubs Kids for Steelers?

Pray tell, FD, what does this have to do with economics or housing

the 20 bucks the K kids put in???? Maybe thats a stretch.... kinda goes with head up your ass thinking that seems to be pervasive in DC economics ??????

DCRogers (profile) wrote on Fri, 5/22/2009 - 11:52 am reply Ignore user Fiduciary Doodie writes: Obama Snubs Kids for Steelers?

Pray tell, FD, what does this have to do with economics or housing

Couldnt have the kids walk around the WH and see the sights and do a pop in but had time to see the steelers, and have a closed door hoops game with the girls on the WH basjetball court .....

priorities and appearances DC.... some little actions speak volumes... this kind of thinking around him speaks more about why we are where we are..... decisions his peeps are making for him....

"In suburbs and small towns, malls often are the only major public spaces and the safest venues for teenagers to shop, hang out and seek part-time work."

Dead-end jobs, overextended credit and a cultural life built mainly on retail shopping, video games and fast food: I guess you could call that a "safe" path.

The end of malls may be the best thing that has ever happened to most American suburbs.