Furthermore, it seems quite likely to me that the majority of these low-end homes are being bought as investment properties to flip/hold for a better market. That market ain't coming for 20 years, though.
Used house: $80k
New Home Buyers Tax Credit: $8k
FHA Loan: $700 month
Knowing you will be living in this shithole for the rest of your working existance: Priceless
volker the viking -
CR: so, do you think the red hot areas and their buyers are still 'early'?
I have always heard that HI follows OC by 1 to 3 years, so I really want to hear a well settled answer to a question like this!
I have been dying to get a single family home here and move out of my apartment, but at least now I think I might be able to do it before I'm 80 years old.
There was a Soviet journalist whose first name was Melor, an acronym for: Marx, Engels, Lenin, October Revolution. Yes, when people imagine that they're inventing a new world those are the sorts of names they give their kids.
Dr. Paul is no Marat. I don't see any evidence of the invention of a new world. However, a new world order is possible. But which order will it be?
Danny writes;
"No, they're not. They can't afford the higher end, because the free money is gone and prices there have no relation to incomes."
Not only that, but the prices have no relation to the accumulated wealth that is available.
If half the population had wealth in the top 5%, there would be no problem with the pricing on these high end homes. Unfortunately only the top 5% have wealth in the top 5%, and there are more homes than people to buy at those prices.
There was a Soviet journalist whose first name was Melor, an acronym for: Marx, Engels, Lenin, October Revolution. Yes, when people imagine that they're inventing a new world those are the sorts of names they give their kids.
Dr. Paul is no Marat. I don't see any evidence of the invention of a new world. However, a new world order is possible. But which order will it be?
Think of a wave that starts in the outer 'burbs and moves inward/coastward to nicer areas. Then a smaller wave bounces off the nicer areas and radiates back to the cheaper 'burbs. IMO, this is the pattern we'll see with foreclosures and price declines going forward.
When the second wave hits the outer areas, things really get ugly.
I have heard so many lies from Realtor's I have stopped counting them, it truly boggles my limited mind.
A long time ago I had to read a book "land and power in Hawaii", it really prepared me for this mess that is hitting what we call the mainland and only beginning to hit Hawaii.
In short Hawaii suffers from the same massive BOOM and bust cycles, but to an extreme that can boggle the mind, what I have recently been able to confirm through carefully watching the market is the extreme level that it is covered up.
The amount of bull sh*t shoved here makes a perfect bed for mushrooms. I have not been able to hear anything for years because my BS sensors have been making me deaf. Is there a reality out there that I can re-connect to?
[ The spot continues with running footage of the Chrysler 300, Dodge
Challenger, Jeep Wrangler and Chrysler Town & Country as the voiceover
continues, "It's all part of our continuing mission to build cars and trucks
you want to drive. Plus we have the best lifetime powertrain warranty in the
industry, backed by the U.S. government."]
Lowest price stuff may go down further.
Median price might and probably will.
Higher priced, long way to drop.
The high priced stuff is no brainer material...stay away, far away.
Medium? Why take the chance, rent for a year.
Bottom? Well, do you really know anything about being a landlord? (cuz Im guessing you dont want to live in one of these places.)
We've been shopping for a house in the Escondido area, and are seeing exactly what is described in the article - low inventory, with any non-crappy and competitively-priced property selling quickly with multiple offers. same bidding-war B.S. that made me decide to sit the market out four years ago. At this point we're about ready to throw in the towel and decamp to Texas or someplace else relatively sane.
All those investment properties hitting the rental market at the same time, just as the density of households increases dramatically and unemployment continues to rise.
kauai_kahuma writes: "I really want to hear a well settled answer to a question like this!"
I agree. I would think that a respected (sincerely said) analyst like CR would be a good touch point for all this. BTW--I hate you and everything you stand for, living in Hawaii while I languish in the swamp that is NE Louisiana. Me sweltering in a 1450 sf 3 BR 2 bath Cape Cod built like a rock by a Delta engineer 60 years ago, and all that.
creditcriminalslovetarp - In reply wave real estate theory above
Women are like waves, they are extremely beautiful but deceptively dangerous
Riding a good wave means avoiding a wipeout...a shallow reef tends to cut you deep...
Wow - Something that I understood the first time I read it.
And ooohhh yea, I would rather but cut to shreds by a reef and maybe survive than suffer the endless cuts of alimony and inflation.
OH, better yet, don't take that wave pushing you up on the reef, or get married, flirting with danger is fun, just don't cross that red line.
Now all I need is a pair of glasses that shows that red line. Risk premium down to .000001. Sorry, have to try to bring this back on theme.
All this means is that the Fed and/or the FDIC, and/or FHFA, or... some arm of the govt will increase its subsidization of larger home loans. It's becoming very predictable.
volker the viking - BTW--I hate you and everything you stand for, living in Hawaii while I languish in the swamp that is NE Louisiana. Smile Me sweltering in a 1450 sf 3 BR 2 bath Cape Cod built like a rock by a Delta engineer 60 years ago, and all that.
Volker, believe me, that hate is not worth it. the price of paradise is LARGE.
I have been making bank for the last 10 years (After working my A$$ off for 10 to get there), just to pay off my debt, (student loans, mortgage on my apartment, etc). just to realize once that is done, everyone who does not do that gets a federal bail out.
I grew up here, I love it here, but I spend all my time working I have no time to enjoy anything. It takes me two months to set up time to be with my old friends just because all we do is work to pay the tax/price of paradise.
I am just looking at; what I have forced myself to save for a down payment, and realize that I could buy a house for CASH almost anywhere else.
If you need to get a good reality check, check out: Oahu Real Estate, look around and see that HI is right where OC was around three years ago. last night / this last morning I was looking around and laughing my ... off.
Hawaii has just seriously bumped up the tax's, (unlike CA we don't get to vote on these things).
OK, maybe I need to get some sleep, its been around 24 hrs but I have been feeling a little buggy this week.
Thu May 21, 5:02 pm ET
LOS ANGELES (Reuters) – Firebrand filmmaker Michael Moore, who targeted the Bush administration in "Fahrenheit 9/11" and the healthcare industry in "Sicko," is now focusing on the global economic meltdown.
The Oscar-winning director will release his as-yet-untitled documentary across North America on October 2, co-financiers Overture Films and Paramount Vantage said on Thursday.
"The wealthy, at some point, decided they didn't have enough wealth," the statement quoted Moore as saying.
"They wanted more -- a lot more. So they systematically set about to fleece the American people out of their hard-earned money. Now, why would they do this? That is what I seek to discover in this movie."
Overture said Moore was still working on the film, and was keeping plot details close to his vest in typical fashion.
Note to Michael Moore....the Obamanomics con job ( in collusion with the 19 too big to fail banks that got trillions in TARP ) to pump up great chunks of the Big Shitpile that's essentially worthless unless the peak real estate values of the bubble can be miraculously restored is the same ole same ole shitbuger for American taxpayers in a different wrapper !
mmckinl - They had a $700,000 for some counties ....
Is that dead now ?
No, its still 700,000+ here, I could walk into the VA and get over half a MILLION for a piece of crap place, and it would STILL be apprised at over HALF a MILLION, and I'm sure I could find some bank that would take that loan. Come on this is HAWAII, prices only go up right?
Sorry for all the caps, but I'm yelling for a reason. Sometimes I feel like I'm watching sheep and cattle being lead to slaughter and feeling really bad, But I love my meat.
I have been screaming at people for years but maybe 1 out of 100 even understands, So Veal or Porter House anyone?
"Even at 1%, who wants to buy a multi-million $$ house before the prices have corrected?
Maybe a few greater fools are still out there, but how many could there still be?"
Let's go to an extreme first. Let's suppose that you could get a non-recourse loan for 100% of the purchase price of a home (thanks to government subsidies in the form of guarantees of loan repayment), with low initial payments using interest rates forced down by massive government intervention in money markets. And let's suppose you had reached a point in your life when you really wanted to have a home of your own. Then why wouldn't you "buy" a nice place to live and call your own, if you can use only other people's money, and you have the ability to walk away without any obligation if prices go south in the future, and to pocket the gains if the price goes up in the future, all the while paying low monthly payments subsidized by intervention in money markets to lower your interest rate and preferential reductions in income taxes?
Now compare that to what's happening. There's so little difference that the arguments in favor of purchasing don't even have to be adjusted for reality. Only people who use a lot of their own money to buy homes have much to gain from waiting - and that's a tiny minority.
There has been no dramatic shift in Americans' view of Wall Street, big business or the role of government despite the worst economic collapse since the Great Depression, according to a wide-ranging Pew Research Center study of American values released Thursday.
"Whether by choice or circumstance, Barack Obama is pursuing a fundamentally different path than his predecessor in terms of economic, domestic and foreign policy. Yet there is no commensurate sea-change in public values," the Pew report concludes.
The 160-page non-partisan study, regularly conducted since 1987, is the most comprehensive look at Americans' outlook since Obama's inauguration.
The study offered new evidence that the Great Recession has not greatly altered Americans' view on the role of government or spurred a dramatic rise in populism.
Americans also remain optimistic despite the hard economic times. True to character, more Americans still believe they are "haves" than "have-nots."
One word - YIKES !
BOL to 95% or more of the American Republic of Sheeple because they are going to really need it !
I don't know if this current but it is the FHA page ...
Section 214 of the National Housing Act provides that mortgage limits for Alaska, Guam, Hawaii, and the Virgin Islands may be adjusted up to 150 percent of the new ceilings. This results in new CY2009 ceilings for these areas of:
One-family Two-family Three-family Four-family
FHA Forward $1,094,625.00 $1,401,300.00 $1,693,875.00 $2,105,100.00
Fannie/Freddie $1,094,625.00 $1,401,300.00 $1,693,875.00 $2,105,100.00
patientrenter -
Some places the numbers work out that way if you have a set income that you can bet your credit score on. But those places and that set income is the question.
"Won't get through the Senate ...
They had a $700,000 for some counties ....
Is that dead now ?"
All the govt has to do is start buying jumbo loans. With the govt buying junk, I guarantee the banks and mortgage brokers will manufacture an unlimited amount of junk. And the govt purchase of jumbo loans is already on the way.
The Senate is a hurdle to easy jumbo loans? Your sense of humor is good, but you may want to cross-check with Senator Chris Dodd.
CR you have to stop posting so many new threads. Let us enjoy the sweet aroma of pizza one day early ...
I found this little detail on the FDIC web takedown notice:
There was no publicly owned stock in BankUnited, FSB. If you are an equity shareholder, your shares are in BankUnited Financial Corporation, Coral Gables, FL, the holding company for BankUnited, FSB, and not the institution. BankUnited Financial Corporation and the interests of equity, debt holders or other creditors of BankUnited Financial Corporation are not included in the closure or receivership of the institution. Any claims by equity holders were not acquired by the assuming institution. Please do not file a claim with the Receiver; instead, you should contact BankUnited Financial Corporation directly for information.
So we knew that private equity was going to get the tasty morsels and leave the maggot infested gristle for the taxpayers, but this is an extra nasty surprise for anyone stupid enough to be long BKUNA. What is left of the holding company after this? Does this rob us of the spectacle of watching screwed equity holders fighting over the office equipment in front of a bankruptcy judge?
There is something blood & stonish about that arrangement that has me doubting it will be the final outcome.
Praise the Company!
A downcast young man paces nervously through a quiet corridor. A tone rings out. A woman opens a portal and addresses Citizen Cordo. She congratulates him that his father had died and relief floods him. She tells him Gatherer Hade is waiting to collect the death taxes -- he is to report to the Gatherer's office at once.
Cordo is brought into an opulent office and greeted by a fat pompous overdressed official -- the Gatherer. Cordo is impressed that the Gatherer's desk is made of mahogany -- he's never seen wood or a tree. The gatherer dismisses trees as a primitive way of recycling air -- something they no longer need thanks to the Company. Cordo responds instinctively with, "Praise the Company!"
Cordo has selected the Golden Death for his father -- he long promised him a spectacular funeral. He's told the bill will be 117 talmars, which shocks the nervous little man. He was told it would be 80 but the taxes have been raised. He didn't know because he's been so busy working a double shift to raise the money for his father's funeral. The complex funeral bill is 31 talmars more than he has saved.
The Gatherer condescendingly tells him that taxes are the primary consideration of every citizen. He relents and says he will let Cordo's supervisor assign extra work. Cordo protests that he only has three hours a night to sleep but the Gatherer responds he will have to go without sleep. He should be grateful that he is warm and fed. Cordo disheartedly praises the Company before leaving.
mmckinl - I don't know if this current but it is the FHA page ...:
Yea, but those are numbers beyond my sense of reality.
Come on, does that make sense to anyone? Remember the old rule of thumb that never applies now is that HI follows OC by 1 to 3 years?
Very interesting, but too depressing. Do you have anything with power drunk idiots frolicking in beds of our money with credit nymphs? Or at least P. Anderson look a likes?
"Now compare that to what's happening. There's so little difference that the arguments in favor of purchasing don't even have to be adjusted for reality. Only people who use a lot of their own money to buy homes have much to gain from waiting - and that's a tiny minority."
It's not a tiny minority when you're discussing high-end homes. The "extreme loan" that you describe has never existed, in particular the non-recourse part. Low-down payment loans above the conforming limit only existed for a few years, and at that level, the included population usually has other assets to protect, like a business, stocks, bonds, etc. Then you have to consider the tax implications of owning an expensive property at an inflated price.
If cheap high-dollar actually existed, I guess the play might be to buy the house through an LLC and rent to yourself. At least that way you could write off the loss when the price collapsed, lower your rent, and if necessary put the LLC into BK if the loan and taxes were unserviceable.
RockyR - OT: anyone think today's
That is actually the only on topic thing I have seen for a while.
I hope not, but I have to admit that of what I could sell, I sold 80% of it today before the close. No real reason except I am feeling really buggy. And with cash I can only blame our government, not all the other red herrings out there.
Who the hell is buying these houses? Even given that everyone in San Diego is nuts to begin with (I think it's the drinking water), surely everyone who wanted a house there had one by 2007 whether they could afford it or not. Seems to me that the only people who can afford a house already have one they can't sell in La Jolla or Rancho Santa Fe and in any case wouldn't exit the freeway, much less buy a house, in Oceanside or Escondido.
Im not an economist (obviously). The low # was good because less starts will let them work
off the oversupply/overhang of the existing inventory, which many believe is understated
because the banks are not fully reporting the foreclosure situation. This all depends on if
someone will actually buy a house, because prices have not stopped going down. If this #
came out 3-4 years ago maybe things would be a little different today.
Im not an economist (obviously). The low # was good because less starts will let them work
off the oversupply/overhang of the existing inventory, which many believe is understated
because the banks are not fully reporting the foreclosure situation. This all depends on if
someone will actually buy a house, because prices have not stopped going down. If this #
came out 3-4 years ago maybe things would be a little different today.
I think you mean "decoupling" markets.
I thing I'll move and buy me a home. Ya right.
Hmm, you know .5 Mil for a 60 year old shack on 1000 sft here, or a McMansion foreclosed property there. What should I do?
The $8k tax credit is a 10% discount on an $80k house and a 1% discount on an $800k house.
CR: so, do you think the red hot areas and their buyers are still 'early'?
If your handle means anything at least you got your one damm cent.
Some of the French Revolutionist pamphleteers wrote under their own names, some under a nom de plume...
Marat = Ron Paul
"buyers are avoiding the higher end"
No, they're not. They can't afford the higher end, because the free money is gone and prices there have no relation to incomes.
Furthermore, it seems quite likely to me that the majority of these low-end homes are being bought as investment properties to flip/hold for a better market. That market ain't coming for 20 years, though.
Used house: $80k
New Home Buyers Tax Credit: $8k
FHA Loan: $700 month
Knowing you will be living in this shithole for the rest of your working existance: Priceless
volker the viking -
CR: so, do you think the red hot areas and their buyers are still 'early'?
I have always heard that HI follows OC by 1 to 3 years, so I really want to hear a well settled answer to a question like this!
I have been dying to get a single family home here and move out of my apartment, but at least now I think I might be able to do it before I'm 80 years old.
Now all those "wealthy folks" ...
will see what their wealth ...
is really worth ...
Foreclosed homes are a bargain right now. Problem is next year it will be clear that they weren't such a bargain.
Is it a fire sale or is it a boilerplate sale that's just starting to warm up?
Hoping I will not have to be living in this shithole for the rest of your working existance: Priceless
"Marat = Ron Paul"
There was a Soviet journalist whose first name was Melor, an acronym for: Marx, Engels, Lenin, October Revolution. Yes, when people imagine that they're inventing a new world those are the sorts of names they give their kids.
Dr. Paul is no Marat. I don't see any evidence of the invention of a new world. However, a new world order is possible. But which order will it be?
Both were physicians before taking their place in serving the public, similar learned men...
Danny writes;
"No, they're not. They can't afford the higher end, because the free money is gone and prices there have no relation to incomes."
Not only that, but the prices have no relation to the accumulated wealth that is available.
If half the population had wealth in the top 5%, there would be no problem with the pricing on these high end homes. Unfortunately only the top 5% have wealth in the top 5%, and there are more homes than people to buy at those prices.
debt != wealth
"Marat = Ron Paul"
There was a Soviet journalist whose first name was Melor, an acronym for: Marx, Engels, Lenin, October Revolution. Yes, when people imagine that they're inventing a new world those are the sorts of names they give their kids.
Dr. Paul is no Marat. I don't see any evidence of the invention of a new world. However, a new world order is possible. But which order will it be?
I think it's closer to...
Borat = Ron Paul
...but YMMV.
Think of a wave that starts in the outer 'burbs and moves inward/coastward to nicer areas. Then a smaller wave bounces off the nicer areas and radiates back to the cheaper 'burbs. IMO, this is the pattern we'll see with foreclosures and price declines going forward.
When the second wave hits the outer areas, things really get ugly.
debt != wealth
shit. NOW you tell me!
I have heard so many lies from Realtor's I have stopped counting them, it truly boggles my limited mind.
A long time ago I had to read a book "land and power in Hawaii", it really prepared me for this mess that is hitting what we call the mainland and only beginning to hit Hawaii.
In short Hawaii suffers from the same massive BOOM and bust cycles, but to an extreme that can boggle the mind, what I have recently been able to confirm through carefully watching the market is the extreme level that it is covered up.
The amount of bull sh*t shoved here makes a perfect bed for mushrooms. I have not been able to hear anything for years because my BS sensors have been making me deaf. Is there a reality out there that I can re-connect to?
YOU are the new Backstop.
[ The spot continues with running footage of the Chrysler 300, Dodge
Challenger, Jeep Wrangler and Chrysler Town & Country as the voiceover
continues, "It's all part of our continuing mission to build cars and trucks
you want to drive. Plus we have the best lifetime powertrain warranty in the
industry, backed by the U.S. government."]
There's very few people that can afford
to pay cash for a million $ home ....
and if they have that kind of money ...
they are waiting too ...
I think the carnage will largely be related
to the % of paid off mortgages ... owned homes
vs mortgaged homes ...
here's how this works, ready?
Lowest price stuff may go down further.
Median price might and probably will.
Higher priced, long way to drop.
The high priced stuff is no brainer material...stay away, far away.
Medium? Why take the chance, rent for a year.
Bottom? Well, do you really know anything about being a landlord? (cuz Im guessing you dont want to live in one of these places.)
In reply wave real estate theory above
Women are like waves, they are extremely beautiful but deceptively dangerous
Riding a good wave means avoiding a wipeout...a shallow reef tends to cut you deep...
"Reign of Error"
bearly writes;
"YOU are the new Backstop."
Marketers really have no shame, do they?
bobn - debt != wealth
shit. NOW you tell me!
But, !Dept != Wealth. Two double negs makes a non-positive?
Sorry, this math stuff just gives me a headache.
We've been shopping for a house in the Escondido area, and are seeing exactly what is described in the article - low inventory, with any non-crappy and competitively-priced property selling quickly with multiple offers. same bidding-war B.S. that made me decide to sit the market out four years ago. At this point we're about ready to throw in the towel and decamp to Texas or someplace else relatively sane.
All those investment properties hitting the rental market at the same time, just as the density of households increases dramatically and unemployment continues to rise.
This should be interesting to watch.
mmckinl;
"I think the carnage will largely be related
to the % of paid off mortgages ... owned homes
vs mortgaged homes ... "
It's worse than that. Money in paid-off homes is not liquid right now.
The only potential customers are wealthy people who have liquid assets.
kauai_kahuma writes: "I really want to hear a well settled answer to a question like this!"
I agree. I would think that a respected (sincerely said) analyst like CR would be a good touch point for all this. BTW--I hate you and everything you stand for, living in Hawaii while I languish in the swamp that is NE Louisiana.
Me sweltering in a 1450 sf 3 BR 2 bath Cape Cod built like a rock by a Delta engineer 60 years ago, and all that.
Is there a reality out there that I can re-connect to?
Yes. It's called "Calculated Risk." Not everyone shares the same reality, but it gets real here.
Attached garage too.
Elvis, glad to see you back.
Yes, feel the love.
There are very few areas in the US where
the big money has nested for any length of time ...
small pockets in big cities where no one has a mortgage ...
Big sale on boutique wineries and acreage in Napa/ Sonoma ...
Cabins in Tahoe
and all are still way overpriced ...
decamp to Texas or someplace else relatively sane.
Texas. Relatively sane. BWAHAHAHAHA
creditcriminalslovetarp - In reply wave real estate theory above
Women are like waves, they are extremely beautiful but deceptively dangerous
Riding a good wave means avoiding a wipeout...a shallow reef tends to cut you deep...
Wow - Something that I understood the first time I read it.
And ooohhh yea, I would rather but cut to shreds by a reef and maybe survive than suffer the endless cuts of alimony and inflation.
OH, better yet, don't take that wave pushing you up on the reef, or get married, flirting with danger is fun, just don't cross that red line.
Now all I need is a pair of glasses that shows that red line. Risk premium down to .000001. Sorry, have to try to bring this back on theme.
"Money in paid-off homes is not liquid right now."
~~~~
Up to the FHA limit there's money, if you have income ...
for the desperate there is always a reverse mortgage ...
I hate to ban people, but the 2 i've wished into the cornfield deserved it...
Went to my 1st word burning last week.
A 6 syllable kept us warm for 15 minutes.
All this means is that the Fed and/or the FDIC, and/or FHFA, or... some arm of the govt will increase its subsidization of larger home loans. It's becoming very predictable.
"Reign of Error"
+1!
"some arm of the govt will increase its subsidization of larger home loans."
Even at 1%, who wants to buy a multi-million $$ house before the prices have corrected?
Maybe a few greater fools are still out there, but how many could there still be?
Sharecrpping in the 21st Century USSA Obamanation:
We need government owned homebuilders to build homes to house workers that make government built cars. Pulte the first USG owned homebuilder ?
For you guys that are all jazzed about 'debt'... there are two sides of a balance sheet for a reason. Just sayin'...
"All this means is that the Fed and/or the FDIC, and/or FHFA, or...
some arm of the govt will increase its subsidization of larger home loans. "
~~~~
Won't get through the Senate ...
They had a $700,000 for some counties ....
Is that dead now ?
volker the viking - BTW--I hate you and everything you stand for, living in Hawaii while I languish in the swamp that is NE Louisiana. Smile Me sweltering in a 1450 sf 3 BR 2 bath Cape Cod built like a rock by a Delta engineer 60 years ago, and all that.
Volker, believe me, that hate is not worth it. the price of paradise is LARGE.
I grew up here, I love it here, but I spend all my time working I have no time to enjoy anything. It takes me two months to set up time to be with my old friends just because all we do is work to pay the tax/price of paradise.
I am just looking at; what I have forced myself to save for a down payment, and realize that I could buy a house for CASH almost anywhere else.
If you need to get a good reality check, check out:
Oahu Real Estate, look around and see that HI is right where OC was around three years ago. last night / this last morning I was looking around and laughing my ... off.
Hawaii has just seriously bumped up the tax's, (unlike CA we don't get to vote on these things).
OK, maybe I need to get some sleep, its been around 24 hrs but I have been feeling a little buggy this week.
"For you guys that are all jazzed about 'debt'...
there are two sides of a balance sheet for a reason. Just sayin'..."
~~~~
We are talking about the BIG balance sheet ....
where the wealthy own the debt ...
the people owe the debt ...
"and if they have that kind of money ... they are waiting too ..."
That plan will work, as long as they don't have the funds parked in stocks, or bonds, or cash.
Thu May 21, 5:02 pm ET
LOS ANGELES (Reuters) – Firebrand filmmaker Michael Moore, who targeted the Bush administration in "Fahrenheit 9/11" and the healthcare industry in "Sicko," is now focusing on the global economic meltdown.
The Oscar-winning director will release his as-yet-untitled documentary across North America on October 2, co-financiers Overture Films and Paramount Vantage said on Thursday.
"The wealthy, at some point, decided they didn't have enough wealth," the statement quoted Moore as saying.
"They wanted more -- a lot more. So they systematically set about to fleece the American people out of their hard-earned money. Now, why would they do this? That is what I seek to discover in this movie."
Overture said Moore was still working on the film, and was keeping plot details close to his vest in typical fashion.
Note to Michael Moore....the Obamanomics con job ( in collusion with the 19 too big to fail banks that got trillions in TARP ) to pump up great chunks of the Big Shitpile that's essentially worthless unless the peak real estate values of the bubble can be miraculously restored is the same ole same ole shitbuger for American taxpayers in a different wrapper !
We are talking about the BIG balance sheet ....
where the wealthy own the debt ...
the people owe the debt ...
There is something blood & stonish about that arrangement that has me doubting it will be the final outcome. Counterparty risk writ large.
"That plan will work, as long as they don't have the funds parked in stocks, or bonds, or cash."
~~~~
T Bills ... Cash ... Short term debt ...
And are not tied up by their own home sale ...
"There is something blood & stonish about that arrangement that has me doubting it will be the final outcome."
~~~~
There will be adjustments ... lol
mmckinl - They had a $700,000 for some counties ....
Is that dead now ?
No, its still 700,000+ here, I could walk into the VA and get over half a MILLION for a piece of crap place, and it would STILL be apprised at over HALF a MILLION, and I'm sure I could find some bank that would take that loan. Come on this is HAWAII, prices only go up right?
Sorry for all the caps, but I'm yelling for a reason. Sometimes I feel like I'm watching sheep and cattle being lead to slaughter and feeling really bad, But I love my meat.
I have been screaming at people for years but maybe 1 out of 100 even understands, So Veal or Porter House anyone?
"Even at 1%, who wants to buy a multi-million $$ house before the prices have corrected?
Maybe a few greater fools are still out there, but how many could there still be?"
Let's go to an extreme first. Let's suppose that you could get a non-recourse loan for 100% of the purchase price of a home (thanks to government subsidies in the form of guarantees of loan repayment), with low initial payments using interest rates forced down by massive government intervention in money markets. And let's suppose you had reached a point in your life when you really wanted to have a home of your own. Then why wouldn't you "buy" a nice place to live and call your own, if you can use only other people's money, and you have the ability to walk away without any obligation if prices go south in the future, and to pocket the gains if the price goes up in the future, all the while paying low monthly payments subsidized by intervention in money markets to lower your interest rate and preferential reductions in income taxes?
Now compare that to what's happening. There's so little difference that the arguments in favor of purchasing don't even have to be adjusted for reality. Only people who use a lot of their own money to buy homes have much to gain from waiting - and that's a tiny minority.
Despite Bad Economy No Big Shift in Values
There has been no dramatic shift in Americans' view of Wall Street, big business or the role of government despite the worst economic collapse since the Great Depression, according to a wide-ranging Pew Research Center study of American values released Thursday.
"Whether by choice or circumstance, Barack Obama is pursuing a fundamentally different path than his predecessor in terms of economic, domestic and foreign policy. Yet there is no commensurate sea-change in public values," the Pew report concludes.
The 160-page non-partisan study, regularly conducted since 1987, is the most comprehensive look at Americans' outlook since Obama's inauguration.
The study offered new evidence that the Great Recession has not greatly altered Americans' view on the role of government or spurred a dramatic rise in populism.
Americans also remain optimistic despite the hard economic times. True to character, more Americans still believe they are "haves" than "have-nots."
One word - YIKES !
BOL to 95% or more of the American Republic of Sheeple because they are going to really need it !
Kauai_Kahuna
I don't know if this current but it is the FHA page ...
Section 214 of the National Housing Act provides that mortgage limits for Alaska, Guam, Hawaii, and the Virgin Islands may be adjusted up to 150 percent of the new ceilings. This results in new CY2009 ceilings for these areas of:
One-family Two-family Three-family Four-family
FHA Forward $1,094,625.00 $1,401,300.00 $1,693,875.00 $2,105,100.00
Fannie/Freddie $1,094,625.00 $1,401,300.00 $1,693,875.00 $2,105,100.00
patientrenter -
Some places the numbers work out that way if you have a set income that you can bet your credit score on. But those places and that set income is the question.
"Won't get through the Senate ...
They had a $700,000 for some counties ....
Is that dead now ?"
All the govt has to do is start buying jumbo loans. With the govt buying junk, I guarantee the banks and mortgage brokers will manufacture an unlimited amount of junk. And the govt purchase of jumbo loans is already on the way.
The Senate is a hurdle to easy jumbo loans? Your sense of humor is good, but you may want to cross-check with Senator Chris Dodd.
CR you have to stop posting so many new threads. Let us enjoy the sweet aroma of pizza one day early ...
I found this little detail on the FDIC web takedown notice:
There was no publicly owned stock in BankUnited, FSB. If you are an equity shareholder, your shares are in BankUnited Financial Corporation, Coral Gables, FL, the holding company for BankUnited, FSB, and not the institution. BankUnited Financial Corporation and the interests of equity, debt holders or other creditors of BankUnited Financial Corporation are not included in the closure or receivership of the institution. Any claims by equity holders were not acquired by the assuming institution. Please do not file a claim with the Receiver; instead, you should contact BankUnited Financial Corporation directly for information.
So we knew that private equity was going to get the tasty morsels and leave the maggot infested gristle for the taxpayers, but this is an extra nasty surprise for anyone stupid enough to be long BKUNA. What is left of the holding company after this? Does this rob us of the spectacle of watching screwed equity holders fighting over the office equipment in front of a bankruptcy judge?
There is something blood & stonish about that arrangement that has me doubting it will be the final outcome.
Praise the Company!
A downcast young man paces nervously through a quiet corridor. A tone rings out. A woman opens a portal and addresses Citizen Cordo. She congratulates him that his father had died and relief floods him. She tells him Gatherer Hade is waiting to collect the death taxes -- he is to report to the Gatherer's office at once.
Cordo is brought into an opulent office and greeted by a fat pompous overdressed official -- the Gatherer. Cordo is impressed that the Gatherer's desk is made of mahogany -- he's never seen wood or a tree. The gatherer dismisses trees as a primitive way of recycling air -- something they no longer need thanks to the Company. Cordo responds instinctively with, "Praise the Company!"
Cordo has selected the Golden Death for his father -- he long promised him a spectacular funeral. He's told the bill will be 117 talmars, which shocks the nervous little man. He was told it would be 80 but the taxes have been raised. He didn't know because he's been so busy working a double shift to raise the money for his father's funeral. The complex funeral bill is 31 talmars more than he has saved.
The Gatherer condescendingly tells him that taxes are the primary consideration of every citizen. He relents and says he will let Cordo's supervisor assign extra work. Cordo protests that he only has three hours a night to sleep but the Gatherer responds he will have to go without sleep. He should be grateful that he is warm and fed. Cordo disheartedly praises the Company before leaving.
The Sun Makers
mmckinl - I don't know if this current but it is the FHA page ...:
Yea, but those are numbers beyond my sense of reality.
Come on, does that make sense to anyone? Remember the old rule of thumb that never applies now is that HI follows OC by 1 to 3 years?
OT: anyone think today's market action followed by BKUNA announcement on thursday could be a set-up by the PTBs for a crash tomorrow?
/tin foil cap on tight
Very interesting, but too depressing. Do you have anything with power drunk idiots frolicking in beds of our money with credit nymphs? Or at least P. Anderson look a likes?
"Now compare that to what's happening. There's so little difference that the arguments in favor of purchasing don't even have to be adjusted for reality. Only people who use a lot of their own money to buy homes have much to gain from waiting - and that's a tiny minority."
It's not a tiny minority when you're discussing high-end homes. The "extreme loan" that you describe has never existed, in particular the non-recourse part. Low-down payment loans above the conforming limit only existed for a few years, and at that level, the included population usually has other assets to protect, like a business, stocks, bonds, etc. Then you have to consider the tax implications of owning an expensive property at an inflated price.
If cheap high-dollar actually existed, I guess the play might be to buy the house through an LLC and rent to yourself. At least that way you could write off the loss when the price collapsed, lower your rent, and if necessary put the LLC into BK if the loan and taxes were unserviceable.
RockyR - OT: anyone think today's
That is actually the only on topic thing I have seen for a while.
I hope not, but I have to admit that of what I could sell, I sold 80% of it today before the close. No real reason except I am feeling really buggy. And with cash I can only blame our government, not all the other red herrings out there.
Who the hell is buying these houses? Even given that everyone in San Diego is nuts to begin with (I think it's the drinking water), surely everyone who wanted a house there had one by 2007 whether they could afford it or not. Seems to me that the only people who can afford a house already have one they can't sell in La Jolla or Rancho Santa Fe and in any case wouldn't exit the freeway, much less buy a house, in Oceanside or Escondido.
Im not an economist (obviously). The low # was good because less starts will let them work
off the oversupply/overhang of the existing inventory, which many believe is understated
because the banks are not fully reporting the foreclosure situation. This all depends on if
someone will actually buy a house, because prices have not stopped going down. If this #
came out 3-4 years ago maybe things would be a little different today.
Stomping out those green shoots? interesting...
http://wallstreetjournal.com/online/Df4...
Im not an economist (obviously). The low # was good because less starts will let them work
off the oversupply/overhang of the existing inventory, which many believe is understated
because the banks are not fully reporting the foreclosure situation. This all depends on if
someone will actually buy a house, because prices have not stopped going down. If this #
came out 3-4 years ago maybe things would be a little different today.
Stomping out those green shoots? interesting...
No more credit crisis?