Whoa! Where's my hat tip Bill? No respect for "Take a name asswipe'?
Take a name asswipe (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/19/2009 - 3:12 pm reply OT: the tunneling continues .....
The source, who was not cleared to speak with the media and would not be identified, said the plan also called for the government to forgive the bulk of $15.4 billion emergency loans that the U.S. has already provided to GM.
quick sale of the automaker's healthy assets to Fed...yeah right
forgive the bulk of $15.4 billion worth of emergency loans that the U.S. has already provided
No wonder former GAO Comptroller General David Walker quit under Bush last year because it has only gotton worse under Obama and his assclown economic team that apparently only works for 19 too big too fail banks.
“If the federal government was a private corporation and the same report came out this morning, our stock would be dropping and some people would be talking about whether the company’s management directors needed a major shake-up”.
“The federal government’s total liabilities,” Walker explained, “translates into a de facto mortgage of about $455,000 for every American household and there’s no house to back that mortgage. In other words, our government has made a whole lot of promises that, in the long run, it cannot possibly keep without huge tax increases.”
Now with trillions to bail out of Wall St what's another $15billion GM write off....
Like I said in previous thread the monied elite in Wall St and Congressiters in Wash DC know they can sell chocolate covered cotton to complacent American taxpayers
Oh and now make that $650,000 for every American household !!!!
GM is not news. There is a carefully organized campaign to leak information everyone already knows. We've known for months that GM was not going to repay those loans.
If it makes you feel any better, the money the government lent to GM mostly went to UAW and suppliers, none of it looks to get the bondholders (the reason for the June 1 deadline is it is the first day that bondholders would benefit.)
"All this talk of Ben unwinding the Fed's positions really cracks me up. He won't have the luxury of choosing what happens, because events will totally outrun him. He's driving on the highway to Fed hell with the only flexibility available being how hard to press the accelerator."
the plan also called for the government to forgive the bulk of $15.4 billion worth of emergency loans that the U.S. has already provided to GM.
This is BS. As a taxpayer and a small business owner who will never see any of this largess if my business were to be in trouble, this is complete and total BS.
This is BS. As a taxpayer and a small business owner who will never see any of this largess if my business were to be in trouble, this is complete and total BS.
iceman (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/19/2009 - 4:25 pm
This is BS. As a taxpayer and a small business owner who will never see any of this largess if my business were to be in trouble, this is complete and total BS.
Your country is being robbed to destruction by kleptocrats. The average citizen only cares about donkee or elefunt, if that. Welcome to reality. don't you wish you'd taken the blue pill?
The case for a global currency is becoming more a reality because the rest of the world is is sick and the increasingly fiat dollar standard that encourages the United States to be careless in its monetary and fiscal policies.
Obamanomics with BB driving the Fed bus into a abyss will seal the deal !
Let's see, keeping the math easy we have 300 million peeps (or 3.0 x 10^8) in the USA, and "we" just gave GM $15 billion (or 1.5 x10^10)....that looks like 0.5 x 10^2 or $50 for every man, woman and child in the USA...
iceman (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/19/2009 - 3:25 pm
* reply
* Ignore user
the plan also called for the government to forgive the bulk of $15.4 billion worth of emergency loans that the U.S. has already provided to GM.
This is BS. As a taxpayer and a small business owner who will never see any of this largess if my business were to be in trouble, this is complete and total BS.
What are you going to do about it? I know, you'll take another big ole bite of the shit burger and tell them you like it.
Hahahahahaha! Since when is a zero interest loan to someone without credit not "gifted money?" Also, that $16 billion was a "loan" once as well. Gimmie a call in a year.
But "help" that pays Chrysler to shutter factories in Ohio, Wisconsin, Missouri, and Michigan and move work to Mexico, that pays General Motors to shutter factories in locations across the country in order to move the work to China, that pays Chrysler and GM to drop roughly 1,900 dealerships, is not going to get the American middle class through this downturn.
"So God created humankind in his image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. God blessed them, and God said to them, ‘Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and...make profit to the shareholders by any means necessary and keep your filthy mouths shut!"
Looks like GM will be going the UAW way. On that note I have enough rolling iron to last the rest of my life and will not by anything union made if possible. Wal mart will get my business!
AFP Published: Tuesday May 19, 2009
US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton on Tuesday hailed the success of China and other rising Asian powers but insisted the United States was "not ceding the Pacific to anyone."
What ridiculous bluster.... yeah we can have BB print $$$ faster than a speeding bullet !
Blackhalo (homepage, profile) wrote on Tue, 5/19/2009 - 8:11 pm
"So Ben and Timmah get to do the "Thelma & Louise" finish?"
Problem being that we are in the car with them.
"What is especially unsettling is the mounting evidence that the Obama administration and the car companies are peddling spin -- and, critics argue, outright deception -- in order to promote the fantasy that what's playing out will, as the Treasury Department suggests, be "a restructuring that results in stronger car companies -– supported by efficient and effective dealer networks – (that) will not only provide more stability and certainty for current employees but the prospect for future employment growth."
Ohio Congressman Steve LaTourette says he and other members of Congress were briefed by top administration officials prior to the president's national address about the future of Chrysler. "Members of Congress on the call were assured that there would be no permanent plant closings... We were also assured that no jobs would be lost," says LaTourette, a Republican.\
"Democrat Dennis Kucinich, another Ohio congressman who was briefed, told the Plain Dealer he "is struggling even to understand why the administration would tell him and others something that wasn't true." Says Kucinich: "To me, it really becomes a question of credibility."
It appears small business's in the 200k range and below is/will be in the dust. By the time you meet all State and Federal regulations, plus taxes there is nothing left to survive on. This sucker is going down, the rich had a very sucessful coup and there is not one damn thing you and I can do about it.
"What are you going to do about it? I know, you'll take another big ole bite of the shit burger and tell them you like it."
You're pretty much right. I only have one vote. I can influence, at most a few other people in terms of how they vote. And even then, the alternatives to vote for are lacking.
We crossed the Rubicon with Bush and so far team Obama has done nothing to readily address or materially change the Banking Oligarchs that rule Wash DC. As The Triumph of the Banking Oligarchs continues at huge taxpayer expense perhaps most Americans should look forward to being a much BIGGER version of Argentina or Mexico in the near future ! I would hate to be Americans under the age of 30 - 35 because most of them will probably be living a good part of their lives in the biggest Banana Republic in the world !
mmckinl (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/19/2009 - 8:38 pm
The real insult is that
a lot of that GM money ...
will be going to close plants here
and open them abroad ...
ditto for Chrysler ...
Another insult is that the money is being used to drive Ford into bankruptcy.
"This sucker is going down, the rich had a very sucessful coup and there is not one damn thing you and I can do about it. "
Yes and the most violently reacting group probably will be the young ones, today about 10-15 year-olds. Their world is about to collapse and few years from now there will be a lot of very angry young adults. That is the most dangerous thing for any society to experience. When young men are having fun, everybody else are crying. Zicke Zacke time (like in 30's Germany).
km4 (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/19/2009 - 8:50 pm
AFP Published: Tuesday May 19, 2009
US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton on Tuesday hailed the success of China and other rising Asian powers but insisted the United States was "not ceding the Pacific to anyone."
What ridiculous bluster.... yeah we can have BB print $$$ faster than a speeding bullet !
Greenspan Says Hong Kong’s Yam Was Right to Buy Stocks in 1998
May 19 (Bloomberg) -- Former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, who in 1998 criticized Hong Kong’s central bank for purchasing $15 billion in stocks during the Asian financial crisis, now calls it a savvy move.
“It turned out that his timing was exquisite,” Greenspan said, referring to Joseph Yam, who plans to retire Oct. 1 after 16 years as chief executive of the Hong Kong Monetary Authority.
“It was a risky action, but he pulled it off,” as share prices rose for several years, the former Fed chief said in a telephone interview today. “I wouldn’t recommend that as a general rule for central banks.”
"This isn't the Bush recession anymore. What extant federal policy isn't owned by Leader O?"
Please. The Titanic (US economy) is sinking by the head. Captain Smith (Bush) puts a pistol to his head and says to his first officer, "It's your problem now," just as he pulls the trigger.
What was Obama SUPPOSED to do? Let the economy burn down?
He bought some time, that's all. You should be pleased that he did.
Hey, GM can bring to the table the name of the GM/Chrysler/Ford/Fiat entity: New United Motor Manufacturing, Inc (NUMMI). I'm sure Toyota would sell their half of the name for $5.00.
They might want to add the word 'Really" to the front (ReNUMMI) to create a mental link to Renmimbi.
Rob Dawg (homepage, profile) wrote on Tue, 5/19/2009 - 2:05 pm
As I said we crossed the Rubicon with Bush...
“The federal government’s total liabilities,” Walker explained, “translates into a de facto mortgage of about $455,000 for every American household and there’s no house to back that mortgage. In other words, our government has made a whole lot of promises that, in the long run, it cannot possibly keep without huge tax increases.”
- former GAO Comptroller General David Walker under Bush
Now with Obama's #1 economic mission ( in collusion with the 19 too big to fail banks that got trillions in TARP ) to pump up great chunks of the Big Shitpile that's essentially worthless unless the peak real estate values of the bubble can be miraculously restored we're up to abut $650,000 for every American household and there’s no house to back that mortgage.
Bank of America, Citigroup Insiders Reap Millions Buying Stock
May 19 (Bloomberg) -- Bank of America Corp. and Citigroup Inc. executives and directors have profits of more than $25 million after purchasing shares earlier this year amid speculation that the lenders would be nationalized.
"As if Ford was solvent before the GM-Chrysler deals. Lol! "
I thought they were solvent, but in hock up to their ears. Do you really need ot be able to pay off all of your debts at once to be truly solvent, of just be able to make payments?
Hey, GM can bring to the table the name of the GM/Chrysler/Ford/Fiat entity: New United Motor Manufacturing, Inc (NUMMI). I'm sure Toyota would sell their half of the name for $5.00.
They might want to add the word 'Really" to the front (ReNUMMI) to create a mental link to Renmimbi.
if the 3 headed monster merge with Tata motors it would work!
"I would not mind if he could find a way to burn down the TBTF19..."
The path will soon be clear to do just that, unless he's become a Republican.
~~~~
care to elaborate ?
My guess is that the big 19 don't get a second bite of the apple (if they claim independence and repay TARP). Second time and you're out (seized by receiver).
Al Goldman, chief market strategist at Wells Fargo, said it's normal for investors to wonder if they went too far too fast but cautioned them not to lose sight of the buying opportunity in front of them.
"The current mood reminds us of the optimistic 10-year-old who, to test his optimism, was given a bag of horse manure for Christmas. Last seen, he had a big smile on his face as he ran around looking for his pony," Goldman explains in his weekly commentary. "We believe there is more good news (ponies) to come."
Once the banking system is stabilized, and the economy is on an even footing, they can begin to dismantle those banks by declaring them to be systemic risks in their present configurations. Sell them off, piece-by-piece.
At the end of the day, these people have the power to do whatever they want to do. If Obama wants to serve the public interest, that's what he'll do, and some public hearings--ala Pecora--would give him the mandate to do it.
snip
Government officials say it's likely that 100,000 Americans are infected with the new influenza strain that is worrying health experts around the world.
mp, exactly, the question is can they figure it out, can anybody figure it out. We all have our ideas, but no one can be certian if they will work or not. But with out time to try, there is no hope that the problem can ever be solved. Better a 1 in 10 chance of figuring out a way to get out of this mess in good enough shape to be able to put the parts back together again, than no chance at all. Think your average origional Star Trek episode, Kirk was always faced with the choice of doing something crazy to save everything, or doing nothing and everything failing anyways. Of course real life does not have cooperative screenwriters where the Warp drives just manage to hold together.
It's about BUYING TIME. You BUY TIME so you can figure out what to do next.
And the answer was "spend more money we don't have". I would say the purchase of the time was just an expensive waste, but highly profitable for certain well-connected parties.
I take it back, Ron Paul isn't gandalf, he's Aragorn, and the gold standard is his broken sword of westernesse. I think bloggers are the ents, Obama is King Theoden of Rohan, and Geitner is Grima Wormtongue.
The Colonies had fiat currency ... Adam Smith wrote this :
Adam Smith wrote of the Pennsylvania currency in his famed 1776 work The Wealth of Nations:
"The government of Pennsylvania, without amassing any [gold or silver], invented a method of lending, not money indeed, but what is equivalent to money to its subjects. [It advanced] to private people at interest, upon [land as collateral], paper bills of credit…made transferable from hand to hand like bank notes, and declared by act of assembly to be legal tender in all payments...[the system] went a considerable way toward defraying the annual expense…of that…government [low taxes]. [Pennsylvania’s] paper currency…is said never to have sunk below the value of gold and silver which was current in the colony before the…issue of paper money."
"The current mood reminds us of the optimistic 10-year-old who, to test his optimism, was given a bag of horse manure for Christmas. Last seen, he had a big smile on his face as he ran around looking for his pony," Goldman explains in his weekly commentary. "We believe there is more good news (horse manure) to come."
I think Saruman is Goldman Sachs... I'd say that Bernanke is Rhadagast the Brown... Scholarly, simple, but uncorrupted... that last one's a problem. Maybe Sheila Bair would make a better Rhadagast.
"I would say the purchase of the time was just an expensive waste, but highly profitable for certain well-connected parties. "
Welcome to the real world. Yeah, a lot of assholes got rich. Isn't it always that way?
But, you can't deny that he didn't BUY TIME.
If he'd played it the way Bush would have played it, there'd be 25% unemployment right now and Bush would be huddled in a corner somewhere in the White House in a drunken stupor.
"I would say the purchase of the time was just an expensive waste, but highly profitable for certain well-connected parties. "
Welcome to the real world. Yeah, a lot of assholes got rich. Isn't it always that way?
But, you can't deny that he didn't BUY TIME.
If he'd played it the way Bush would have played it, there'd be 25% unemployment right now and Bush would be huddled in a corner somewhere in the White House in a drunken stupor.
If he'd played it the way Bush would have played it, there'd be 25% unemployment right now and Bush would be huddled in a corner somewhere in South America in a drunken stupor.
F*&k Adam Smith. Every real scholar knows that Adam Smith was a nut case, hired by the Exchequer to do a study on how to project British financial power.
"The Wealth of Nations" was a contracted study, or didn't you know that?
"Any small business doing <=200K is a very difficult proposition. I think a lot of self-employed are finding that out. "
The hard way. Especially of they were running on credit.
Then they find out that they aren't eligible for unemployment.
The FedGov is going to be very disappointed if they are planning on raising taxes from these businesses or their owners.
"If he'd played it the way Bush would have played it, there'd be 25% unemployment right now and Bush would be huddled in a corner somewhere in the White House in a drunken stupor."
Easy to play that game: "If Bush were elected to a third term, we would be out of this mess already."
See how easy it is to make sh*t up?
As for buying time, notice that no one has lifted one finger to clean up the housing finance mess. Nothing. We still have Fannie and Freddie in "conservatorship", whatever that means. And their stocks still trade, amazingly.
So, 2 years after the secondary markets froze up, and 6+ months after Fannie/Freddie got taken over, nothing has been done (except for BB printing dollars to buy $1.2T of agency MBS).
mmckinl (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/19/2009 - 2:55 pm
"fiat currency" is NOT the problem ...
Fractional reserve banking IS ...
I agree with you that fractional reserve banking is the biggest problem, the "baked in" fraud in modern banking.
A redeemable currency has the benefit of keeping a lid on out of control government spending. Of course, government makes the laws, so it can change the rules regarding redemption its own benefit. Ultimately, you need responsible leaders in government to enforce currency redemption.
"I have never been
able to get thru one chapter. Don't know why."
The theme of LOTR is pride versus humility and sacrifice, told as a great adventure. It's extraordinary, and there's nothing like it, at least in English.
Yep, talked to an atty who was doing well and is just breaking even now, and who, like me, knows all these small business types who are keeping the biz open on savings. This can't last. One (formerly) rich architect has about a year in savings to run his business and then he's out of business, if things don't turn around.
Also, hard equity lenders who lent only up to 60% l to v ratios who are underwater.
"Adam Smith wrote this :"
F*&k Adam Smith. Every real scholar knows that Adam Smith was a nut case, hired by the Exchequer to do a study on how to project British financial power.
"The Wealth of Nations" was a contracted study, or didn't you know that?
LOL ... Well then take Ben Franklin's word for it ;
He blamed the prohibition of colonial currency for the Revolutionary War !
"In 1938, Dr. Richard A. Lester, an economist at Princeton University, wrote that “The price level during the 52 years prior to the American Revolution and while Pennsylvania was on a paper standard was more stable than the American price level has been during any succeeding fifty-year period.” Pennsylvania established a "land bank" that allowed landowners to borrow scrip with their land as collateral. They could borrow twice the value of their land, half of it representing actual land value, and the other half representing production potential of the land. The loan was to be retired over a set period of years, with the land ownership being restored to the citizen upon payment. When the loan was fully retired, another loan could be taken out."
I agree with you that fractional reserve banking is the biggest problem, the "baked in" fraud in modern banking.
A redeemable currency has the benefit of keeping a lid on out of control government spending. Of course, government makes the laws, so it can change the rules regarding redemption its own benefit. Ultimately, you need responsible leaders in government to enforce currency redemption.
~~~~
Exactly right ... We need one producer of currency and credit to control the money supply ...
The Constitution gives the Federal Government this right ... It was usurped by the Banks so they could
profit from their ill gotten monopoly of money creation.
If the citizens carry the risk, they should have the reward ...
Why should we borrow our own money from the banks ?
nades -- I'm loaded up, but have been for a full month already. I have a distinct sensation that somebody is propping the markets up, whether it is the government, or the investment arms of a bunch of banks in collaboration. The market would crash tomorrow if they removed the floor. But I think they're holding it up to let a few more companies re-cap, lure a few more retail buyers, and squeeze the shorts to death. Since they're all screwed when it collapses, maybe they'll wait and see if confidence alone can prevent the deflationary wave.
With the VIX this low, and some terrible companies as overbought/overvalued as they currently are, I think you'd see several multiples on October expiring puts.
The other possibility is that the VIX is crashing because those in the know have been told that inflation is the game plan. But I think deflation for a while is much more likely.
Yes, recievership is probably a condition of the bid. What I'm wondering whether BankUnited will be like WAMU which went failed on a Thursday and straight to JPM by Friday morning. In WAMU's case I assumed it was so the FDIC didn't have to float backing deposits over the weekend but I was never really sure. Or maybe BKUNA will be closer to the Wachovia model which technically wasn't a failure.
"The other possibility is that the VIX is crashing because those in the know have been told that inflation is the game plan. But I think deflation for a while is much more likely."
"I know Pavel, I like fantasy, but for some reason I've never taken to Lord of the Rs."
LOTR is extraordinary in that the fantasy is realistic, at least in terms of character, the invention is splendid, and the narrative almost never fails to move.
"Did you read Inferno..."
I've read parts in English, which is probably completely inadequate. To understand and appreciate The Comedy, not only should you read it in Italian, but you must understand the spirit and world view of medieval Catholicism. The Paradiso is sublime, but I think you have to be a Christian to fully understand it, even in translation.
In the last canto, 33, Dante says something like: In paradise God gathers all the scattered pages of the world and puts them together again in one volume.
"nades -- I'm loaded up, but have been for a full month already."
We're getting out. The phone call has been made. I have no special information, just instinct. We're not big players, but nevertheless we're outa there. We're too old to mess with it.
Ah, well apparently BAC just issued 800M shares at $10/pop. Who's left?? Doubtful that Citi is going to do anything significant.... Maybe a couple of the REITs? Otherwise, the party might be about over...
Low Volume!! Waterfall time?
Low VIX = puts were on sale today. Me likey.
No time to explain, here's 3 charts of trimtabs data (last reported for 15 apr, 2 weeks behind if you want free summary I guess)
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/2026/picture1qui.png
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/603/trimtabs1.png
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4959/trimtabs2.png
Whoa! Where's my hat tip Bill? No respect for "Take a name asswipe'?
Take a name asswipe (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/19/2009 - 3:12 pm reply OT: the tunneling continues .....
The source, who was not cleared to speak with the media and would not be identified, said the plan also called for the government to forgive the bulk of $15.4 billion emergency loans that the U.S. has already provided to GM.
GM bankruptcy plan eyes quick sale to government
| Reuters
$15.4 billion forgiven for GM
$12 billion forgiven for GS
its good to have a ticker starting with G
um, that chart of s&p closings prices makes me nervous....
No wonder former GAO Comptroller General David Walker quit under Bush last year because it has only gotton worse under Obama and his assclown economic team that apparently only works for 19 too big too fail banks.
“If the federal government was a private corporation and the same report came out this morning, our stock would be dropping and some people would be talking about whether the company’s management directors needed a major shake-up”.
“The federal government’s total liabilities,” Walker explained, “translates into a de facto mortgage of about $455,000 for every American household and there’s no house to back that mortgage. In other words, our government has made a whole lot of promises that, in the long run, it cannot possibly keep without huge tax increases.”
Now with trillions to bail out of Wall St what's another $15billion GM write off....
Like I said in previous thread the monied elite in Wall St and Congressiters in Wash DC know they can sell chocolate covered cotton to complacent American taxpayers
Oh and now make that $650,000 for every American household !!!!
HP down more than 3% aferhours: http://www.google.com/finance?q=hpq
It is easy to be so generous with other people's money. In that, the government is no different than the private companies.
so, what spread over treasuries should Obama ask of Arnold?
EHP - No time to explain
they look incomprehensible
Does this mean that, once again, the government has passed our money right through a hollow conduit to bondholders?
EHP's image posts show flow out of US equity mutual funds - interesting in that the market is not dropping at the same time...
GM is not news. There is a carefully organized campaign to leak information everyone already knows. We've known for months that GM was not going to repay those loans.
Does this mean that, once again, the government has passed our money
right through a hollow conduit to bondholders?
~~~~
Yes, but you knew that ...
Glad you posted it anyway ...
same political problem as the insolvent banks ...
Bond holders ... the real welfare queens ...
how can that not be the TEXTBOOK double top?
whenever i see a 20 yr chart of $SPX, i ask myself:
"even if you didnt know what the underlying instrument was, would you buy that chart"?
hahahahahahaha
um.............nope.
Wally,
If it makes you feel any better, the money the government lent to GM mostly went to UAW and suppliers, none of it looks to get the bondholders (the reason for the June 1 deadline is it is the first day that bondholders would benefit.)
"All this talk of Ben unwinding the Fed's positions really cracks me up. He won't have the luxury of choosing what happens, because events will totally outrun him. He's driving on the highway to Fed hell with the only flexibility available being how hard to press the accelerator."
Agree 100%.
"If it makes you feel any better, the money the government lent to GM
mostly went to UAW and suppliers, none of it looks to get the bondholders..."
~~~
money is fungible ...
Rajesh
money is fungible
sincerely,
Ben Bernanke
mmckinl - jinx!
the plan also called for the government to forgive the bulk of $15.4 billion worth of emergency loans that the U.S. has already provided to GM.
This is BS. As a taxpayer and a small business owner who will never see any of this largess if my business were to be in trouble, this is complete and total BS.
GM - The Amtrak of Automobiles.
...the plan also called for the government to forgive the bulk of $15.4 billion worth of emergency loans that the U.S. has already provided to GM.
Did anyone think this money would ever get repaid? You all donated GM 100 dollars.
This is BS. As a taxpayer and a small business owner who will never see any of this largess if my business were to be in trouble, this is complete and total BS.
How's an interest-free loan sound?
SBA offers interest-free loans to struggling businesses
"Did anyone think this money would ever get repaid? "
Not me, not surprised at all.
Just wait until the national sales tax is implemented. That will be a good test of the American will.
pony car is suddenly taking on a totally new meaning for me.
Also..Max...Free Loans /= Gifted Money.
iceman (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/19/2009 - 4:25 pm
This is BS. As a taxpayer and a small business owner who will never see any of this largess if my business were to be in trouble, this is complete and total BS.
Your country is being robbed to destruction by kleptocrats. The average citizen only cares about donkee or elefunt, if that. Welcome to reality. don't you wish you'd taken the blue pill?
The case for a global currency is becoming more a reality because the rest of the world is is sick and the increasingly fiat dollar standard that encourages the United States to be careless in its monetary and fiscal policies.
Obamanomics with BB driving the Fed bus into a abyss will seal the deal !
forgiven debt is taxable right?
"As a taxpayer and a small business owner who will never see any of this largess if my business were to be in trouble..."
You aren't even close to knowing how badly you are going to be screwed.
This is a pretty funny headline:
Yahoo! 404 - Page Not Found
Maybe Treasury should come out with a statement like this?
Let's see, keeping the math easy we have 300 million peeps (or 3.0 x 10^8) in the USA, and "we" just gave GM $15 billion (or 1.5 x10^10)....that looks like 0.5 x 10^2 or $50 for every man, woman and child in the USA...
Party on Garth!
iceman (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/19/2009 - 3:25 pm
* reply
* Ignore user
the plan also called for the government to forgive the bulk of $15.4 billion worth of emergency loans that the U.S. has already provided to GM.
This is BS. As a taxpayer and a small business owner who will never see any of this largess if my business were to be in trouble, this is complete and total BS.
What are you going to do about it? I know, you'll take another big ole bite of the shit burger and tell them you like it.
No, even though it may ultimately mean madness rather than blissful idiocracy...
blissful idiocracy...
Go 'way, batin!
GE borrowing - Immelt is expecting interest rates to be higher in 2010....
The real insult is that
a lot of that GM money ...
will be going to close plants here
and open them abroad ....
ditto for Chrysler ...
Also..Max...Free Loans /= Gifted Money.
Hahahahahaha! Since when is a zero interest loan to someone without credit not "gifted money?" Also, that $16 billion was a "loan" once as well. Gimmie a call in a year.
Auto Bailout Blues: Spin, Lies and Layoffs
Auto Bailout Blues: Spin, Lies and Layoffs
But "help" that pays Chrysler to shutter factories in Ohio, Wisconsin, Missouri, and Michigan and move work to Mexico, that pays General Motors to shutter factories in locations across the country in order to move the work to China, that pays Chrysler and GM to drop roughly 1,900 dealerships, is not going to get the American middle class through this downturn.
"So God created humankind in his image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. God blessed them, and God said to them, ‘Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and...make profit to the shareholders by any means necessary and keep your filthy mouths shut!"
PS. I see dead bankers.
"What are you going to do about it? I know, you'll take another big ole bite of the shit burger and tell them you like it."
Thank-you sir! May I have another?
Looks like GM will be going the UAW way. On that note I have enough rolling iron to last the rest of my life and will not by anything union made if possible. Wal mart will get my business!
"The factory closings will displace tens of thousands of workers and rip primary
employers out of communities across the Great Lakes states."
~~~
where's the love ?
China and Mexico ?
AFP Published: Tuesday May 19, 2009
US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton on Tuesday hailed the success of China and other rising Asian powers but insisted the United States was "not ceding the Pacific to anyone."
What ridiculous bluster.... yeah we can have BB print $$$ faster than a speeding bullet !
Blackhalo (homepage, profile) wrote on Tue, 5/19/2009 - 8:11 pm
"So Ben and Timmah get to do the "Thelma & Louise" finish?"
Problem being that we are in the car with them.
You mean dragged underneath.
"What is especially unsettling is the mounting evidence that the Obama administration and the car companies are peddling spin -- and, critics argue, outright deception -- in order to promote the fantasy that what's playing out will, as the Treasury Department suggests, be "a restructuring that results in stronger car companies -– supported by efficient and effective dealer networks – (that) will not only provide more stability and certainty for current employees but the prospect for future employment growth."
~~~~
hoocoodanode ?
Ohio Congressman Steve LaTourette says he and other members of Congress were briefed by top administration officials prior to the president's national address about the future of Chrysler. "Members of Congress on the call were assured that there would be no permanent plant closings... We were also assured that no jobs would be lost," says LaTourette, a Republican.\
~~~~
Yes they were briefed ...
pulled down to the ankles ...
"You mean dragged underneath."
Well, there is a banker and a UAW foreman, back-seat driving...
"Democrat Dennis Kucinich, another Ohio congressman who was briefed, told the Plain Dealer he "is struggling even to understand why the administration would tell him and others something that wasn't true." Says Kucinich: "To me, it really becomes a question of credibility."
~~~~
Ah Yes ! ........... Credibility ...
The dashed line is the closing price today.
"Once more, unto the breach, dear friends, once more."
It appears small business's in the 200k range and below is/will be in the dust. By the time you meet all State and Federal regulations, plus taxes there is nothing left to survive on. This sucker is going down, the rich had a very sucessful coup and there is not one damn thing you and I can do about it.
US needs a do over.
Blackhalo
"You mean dragged underneath."
Well, there are a couple of bankers, back-seat driving...
~~~~
Go long Vaseline, KY ...
May your kids grow up to be proctologists ...
"What are you going to do about it? I know, you'll take another big ole bite of the shit burger and tell them you like it."
You're pretty much right. I only have one vote. I can influence, at most a few other people in terms of how they vote. And even then, the alternatives to vote for are lacking.
I try to buy everything union made and haven't spent a dime in Walmart for over a decade.
You see, it's because I love my country.
We crossed the Rubicon with Bush and so far team Obama has done nothing to readily address or materially change the Banking Oligarchs that rule Wash DC. As The Triumph of the Banking Oligarchs continues at huge taxpayer expense perhaps most Americans should look forward to being a much BIGGER version of Argentina or Mexico in the near future ! I would hate to be Americans under the age of 30 - 35 because most of them will probably be living a good part of their lives in the biggest Banana Republic in the world !
MaryAnn,
That is a depressing statement. I hope it isn't true, or there will be a lot more unemployed wage slaves on the streets.
"most of them will probably be living a good part of their lives in the biggest Banana Republic in the world !"
~~~~
We don't grow bananas ...
It'll be a Collard Green Republic ...
If lucky, with some fatback ...
I don't like Walmart, China, Unions or polititions, so it appears I'm up shit creek.
km4 (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/19/2009 - 2:01 pm
We crossed the Rubicon with Bush...
No. Bush led us to the Rubicon. Obama crossed it.
Seriously, is everyone cognizant of the new perspective? This isn't the Bush recession anymore. What extant federal policy isn't owned by Leader O?
"I don't like Walmart, China, Unions or polititions, so it appears I'm up shit creek. "
I think it is getting crowded up shit creek isn't it?
"and will not by anything union made if possible. Wal mart will get my business! "
I'll let the police and fire department know how you feel.
I try to buy everything union made and haven't spent a dime in Walmart for over a decade.
You see, it's because I love my country.
Well you certainly buy a lot of government.
"I think it is getting crowded up shit creek isn't it?"
Better a little crowding than living downstream these days...
"What extant federal policy isn't owned by Leader O?"
Iraq?
mmckinl (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/19/2009 - 8:38 pm
The real insult is that
a lot of that GM money ...
will be going to close plants here
and open them abroad ...
ditto for Chrysler ...
Another insult is that the money is being used to drive Ford into bankruptcy.
Hey, the fed is insolvent too, I doubt that's going to stop them tho...
"This sucker is going down, the rich had a very sucessful coup and there is not one damn thing you and I can do about it. "
Yes and the most violently reacting group probably will be the young ones, today about 10-15 year-olds. Their world is about to collapse and few years from now there will be a lot of very angry young adults. That is the most dangerous thing for any society to experience. When young men are having fun, everybody else are crying. Zicke Zacke time (like in 30's Germany).
Another insult is that the money is being used to drive Ford into bankruptcy.
As if Ford was solvent before the GM-Chrysler deals. Lol!
GH is it time to load back up on puts / shorts.... I'm thinking about gambling a little...
"...the rich had a very sucessful coup and there is not one damn thing you and I can do about it."
Welcome to the New World Order.
Now that the UAW owns the majority of the Detroit 3 Do you really think Ford has any bargaining power? The mess grows.
RE: EHPs graphs.
What could be absorbing all that volume (outflow)?
km4 (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/19/2009 - 8:50 pm
AFP Published: Tuesday May 19, 2009
US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton on Tuesday hailed the success of China and other rising Asian powers but insisted the United States was "not ceding the Pacific to anyone."
What ridiculous bluster.... yeah we can have BB print $$$ faster than a speeding bullet !
Can Bernanke print carriers and jet fuel?
"This isn't the Bush recession anymore. What extant federal policy isn't owned by Leader O?"
~~~~~
We are in the Reaganomic Depression ...
CEO : Alan Greenspan
I agree but Ford had a fighting chance until Congress decided to set up shop in competition against Ford.
The Reaganomic Depression ...
Debt printing
Union busting
offshoring
outsourcing
leveraged buyout
pension busting
oligarchic tax cutting
Trickle Down Reaganomics Depression ...
Hmmm. Greenspan endorsese PPT like actions. I suspect Bernanke, Geithner and Obama are ahead of him.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aTDcelSOTQU4&refer=home
Greenspan Says Hong Kong’s Yam Was Right to Buy Stocks in 1998
May 19 (Bloomberg) -- Former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, who in 1998 criticized Hong Kong’s central bank for purchasing $15 billion in stocks during the Asian financial crisis, now calls it a savvy move.
“It turned out that his timing was exquisite,” Greenspan said, referring to Joseph Yam, who plans to retire Oct. 1 after 16 years as chief executive of the Hong Kong Monetary Authority.
“It was a risky action, but he pulled it off,” as share prices rose for several years, the former Fed chief said in a telephone interview today. “I wouldn’t recommend that as a general rule for central banks.”
Wouldn't BankUn have to go INTO receivership before it got OUT of receivership??
Just asking.
"This isn't the Bush recession anymore. What extant federal policy isn't owned by Leader O?"
Please. The Titanic (US economy) is sinking by the head. Captain Smith (Bush) puts a pistol to his head and says to his first officer, "It's your problem now," just as he pulls the trigger.
What was Obama SUPPOSED to do? Let the economy burn down?
He bought some time, that's all. You should be pleased that he did.
That's what it's ALWAYS about. BUYING TIME.
And, yeah, it's his problem now. He owns it.
Here's a great interactive heat map measuring financial strain by county.
Associated Press Interactive: AP Economic Stress Index
1 currency now -yogi (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/19/2009 - 5:08 pm
I'll let the police and fire department know how you feel.
Oh there's a persuasive argument for unions -- the prison industry.
Hey, GM can bring to the table the name of the GM/Chrysler/Ford/Fiat entity: New United Motor Manufacturing, Inc (NUMMI). I'm sure Toyota would sell their half of the name for $5.00.
They might want to add the word 'Really" to the front (ReNUMMI) to create a mental link to Renmimbi.
"What was Obama SUPPOSED to do? Let the economy burn down?"
I would not mind if he could find a way to burn down the TBTF19...
Rob Dawg (homepage, profile) wrote on Tue, 5/19/2009 - 2:05 pm
As I said we crossed the Rubicon with Bush...
“The federal government’s total liabilities,” Walker explained, “translates into a de facto mortgage of about $455,000 for every American household and there’s no house to back that mortgage. In other words, our government has made a whole lot of promises that, in the long run, it cannot possibly keep without huge tax increases.”
- former GAO Comptroller General David Walker under Bush
Now with Obama's #1 economic mission ( in collusion with the 19 too big to fail banks that got trillions in TARP ) to pump up great chunks of the Big Shitpile that's essentially worthless unless the peak real estate values of the bubble can be miraculously restored we're up to abut $650,000 for every American household and there’s no house to back that mortgage.
Bank of America, Citigroup Insiders Reap Millions Buying Stock
May 19 (Bloomberg) -- Bank of America Corp. and Citigroup Inc. executives and directors have profits of more than $25 million after purchasing shares earlier this year amid speculation that the lenders would be nationalized.
"I would not mind if he could find a way to burn down the TBTF19..."
The path will soon be clear to do just that, unless he's become a Republican.
"As if Ford was solvent before the GM-Chrysler deals. Lol! "
I thought they were solvent, but in hock up to their ears. Do you really need ot be able to pay off all of your debts at once to be truly solvent, of just be able to make payments?
Jim,
Hey, GM can bring to the table the name of the GM/Chrysler/Ford/Fiat entity: New United Motor Manufacturing, Inc (NUMMI). I'm sure Toyota would sell their half of the name for $5.00.
They might want to add the word 'Really" to the front (ReNUMMI) to create a mental link to Renmimbi.
if the 3 headed monster merge with Tata motors it would work!
Greenspan: “It was a risky action, but he pulled it off,”
Translation="We have no idea what we're doing."
"And, yeah, it's his problem now. He owns it. "
It may not be his fault, but he did volunteer for the job of fixing it. It's really all of our problem.
mp
"I would not mind if he could find a way to burn down the TBTF19..."
The path will soon be clear to do just that, unless he's become a Republican.
~~~~
care to elaborate ?
mp (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/19/2009 - 5:21 pm
What was Obama SUPPOSED to do? Let the economy burn down?
What precisely do you think happens next here, bub?
mmckinl:
mp
"I would not mind if he could find a way to burn down the TBTF19..."
The path will soon be clear to do just that, unless he's become a Republican.
~~~~
care to elaborate ?
My guess is that the big 19 don't get a second bite of the apple (if they claim independence and repay TARP). Second time and you're out (seized by receiver).
CNBC says "Ponies for everyone"
Al Goldman, chief market strategist at Wells Fargo, said it's normal for investors to wonder if they went too far too fast but cautioned them not to lose sight of the buying opportunity in front of them.
"The current mood reminds us of the optimistic 10-year-old who, to test his optimism, was given a bag of horse manure for Christmas. Last seen, he had a big smile on his face as he ran around looking for his pony," Goldman explains in his weekly commentary. "We believe there is more good news (ponies) to come."
"care to elaborate ?"
Once the banking system is stabilized, and the economy is on an even footing, they can begin to dismantle those banks by declaring them to be systemic risks in their present configurations. Sell them off, piece-by-piece.
At the end of the day, these people have the power to do whatever they want to do. If Obama wants to serve the public interest, that's what he'll do, and some public hearings--ala Pecora--would give him the mandate to do it.
I'm reading Tolkien's lord of the rings, and I'm seeing some parallels:
"The One Ring" is our fiat currency.
Sauron is the bankers.
Gandalf is Ron Paul
The hobbits are the American Consumer
Elves are... finance people.
Dwarves are... the military? Help me out here.
"What precisely do you think happens next here, bub?"
It's about BUYING TIME. You BUY TIME so you can figure out what to do next.
Yam sounds like Agent 86 defusing the bomb (spoiler, main part starts at 4:00):
YouTube -
The Orks are the Congress.... and bureaucrats...
It's about BUYING TIME. You BUY TIME so you can figure out what to do next.
I've figured out what to do next...
buy more time!
We'll just keep doing this.
Swine news....
CDC: 100,000 Americans Likely Infected With Swine Flu - Infectious Disease - FOXNews.com
snip
Government officials say it's likely that 100,000 Americans are infected with the new influenza strain that is worrying health experts around the world.
Sauron is the bankers.
Does that mean Timmeh is the Mouth of Sauron?
"If Obama wants to serve the public interest, that's what he'll do,
and some public hearings--ala Pecora--would give him the mandate to do it."
~~~
I hope you are right ...
my odds for your scenario : 10%
I think they go Japanese and Zombify these banks ...
For a decade of sheer misery ...
The zombie banks are the Nazgul.
mp, exactly, the question is can they figure it out, can anybody figure it out. We all have our ideas, but no one can be certian if they will work or not. But with out time to try, there is no hope that the problem can ever be solved. Better a 1 in 10 chance of figuring out a way to get out of this mess in good enough shape to be able to put the parts back together again, than no chance at all. Think your average origional Star Trek episode, Kirk was always faced with the choice of doing something crazy to save everything, or doing nothing and everything failing anyways. Of course real life does not have cooperative screenwriters where the Warp drives just manage to hold together.
"Dwarves are... the military? Help me out here."
A ruined race that let greed get the better of them? I'd go with regulators.
Of course instead of digging too deep, the did not dig deep enough.
mp (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/19/2009 - 5:45 pm
It's about BUYING TIME. You BUY TIME so you can figure out what to do next.
And the answer was "spend more money we don't have". I would say the purchase of the time was just an expensive waste, but highly profitable for certain well-connected parties.
I take it back, Ron Paul isn't gandalf, he's Aragorn, and the gold standard is his broken sword of westernesse. I think bloggers are the ents, Obama is King Theoden of Rohan, and Geitner is Grima Wormtongue.
"I think they go Japanese and Zombify these banks ..."
Guess what! I think so too, but he (Obama) will probably have the opportunity to do it.
We just have to wait for the next chapter of the continuing saga.
" fiat currency."
~~~~
"fiat currency" is NOT the problem ...
Fractional reserve banking IS ...
The Colonies had fiat currency ... Adam Smith wrote this :
Adam Smith wrote of the Pennsylvania currency in his famed 1776 work The Wealth of Nations:
"The government of Pennsylvania, without amassing any [gold or silver], invented a method of lending, not money indeed, but what is equivalent to money to its subjects. [It advanced] to private people at interest, upon [land as collateral], paper bills of credit…made transferable from hand to hand like bank notes, and declared by act of assembly to be legal tender in all payments...[the system] went a considerable way toward defraying the annual expense…of that…government [low taxes]. [Pennsylvania’s] paper currency…is said never to have sunk below the value of gold and silver which was current in the colony before the…issue of paper money."
"Geitner is Grima Wormtongue."
That would make Saruman - Bernanke?
Edited for sense:
"The current mood reminds us of the optimistic 10-year-old who, to test his optimism, was given a bag of horse manure for Christmas. Last seen, he had a big smile on his face as he ran around looking for his pony," Goldman explains in his weekly commentary. "We believe there is more good news (horse manure) to come."
Hoops substitute Summers for Wormtounge, Timmy is not very persuasive.
What does that make Hank, Saurman?
"Wouldn't BankUn have to go INTO receivership before it got OUT of receivership??"
FDIC receivership lasts literally a few minutes.
I think Saruman is Goldman Sachs... I'd say that Bernanke is Rhadagast the Brown... Scholarly, simple, but uncorrupted... that last one's a problem. Maybe Sheila Bair would make a better Rhadagast.
"I would say the purchase of the time was just an expensive waste, but highly profitable for certain well-connected parties. "
Welcome to the real world. Yeah, a lot of assholes got rich. Isn't it always that way?
But, you can't deny that he didn't BUY TIME.
If he'd played it the way Bush would have played it, there'd be 25% unemployment right now and Bush would be huddled in a corner somewhere in the White House in a drunken stupor.
Any small business doing <=200K is a very difficult proposition. I think a lot of self-employed are finding that out.
Hoopajoops LTD (homepage, profile) wrote on Tue, 5/19/2009 - 5:46 pm
We'll just keep doing this.
No, eventually the money will run out and the advocates of intervention for its own sake will be like "whocoodanode?"
A ruined race that let greed get the better of them? I'd go with regulators.
Of course instead of digging too deep, the did not dig deep enough.
So what you're saying is that the balrog represents credit default swaps?
You were greedy and mined too deep!
Moria is asset backed securities, then.
"I would say the purchase of the time was just an expensive waste, but highly profitable for certain well-connected parties. "
Welcome to the real world. Yeah, a lot of assholes got rich. Isn't it always that way?
But, you can't deny that he didn't BUY TIME.
If he'd played it the way Bush would have played it, there'd be 25% unemployment right now and Bush would be huddled in a corner somewhere in the White House in a drunken stupor.
mp (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/19/2009 - 5:57 pm
Welcome to the real world. Yeah, a lot of assholes got rich. Isn't it always that way?
No, welcome to a decaying state. Some states in some places and times actually work. It helps to have expectations higher than a treadmill of robbery.
The more time we buy, the more generations beyond my great grandchildren will be paying it back.
If he'd played it the way Bush would have played it, there'd be 25% unemployment right now and Bush would be huddled in a corner somewhere in South America in a drunken stupor.
Fixed.
Un-oh, didn't the Ents have no wives, who all ran away or disappeared or whatever.
The hub loves these books and read them aloud to both our children. I have never been
able to get thru one chapter. Don't know why.
Also, the movies made no sense to me whatever.
I did like the guy who was perpetually sniviling over his "precious".
Niven and Pournelle's "Escape from Hell" just arrived.
Also Niven and Lerner's "Juggler of Worlds", and Bogle's "The Battle for the Soul of Capitalism".
I do love Amazon.
it.
Hoopajoops LTD (homepage, profile) wrote on Tue, 5/19/2009 - 4:44 pm
* reply
* Ignore user
I'm reading Tolkien's lord of the rings, and I'm seeing some parallels
Metaphor kinda breaks down? Can I have some of what you're smoking?
Please?
Maybe Bush is drunk somewhere.
Who cares?
When do you start school, Hoops?
"Adam Smith wrote this :"
F*&k Adam Smith. Every real scholar knows that Adam Smith was a nut case, hired by the Exchequer to do a study on how to project British financial power.
"The Wealth of Nations" was a contracted study, or didn't you know that?
Landlord!!! Got Escape from hell and am reading it.
Reread Inferno in preparation.
"Any small business doing <=200K is a very difficult proposition. I think a lot of self-employed are finding that out. "
The hard way. Especially of they were running on credit.
Then they find out that they aren't eligible for unemployment.
The FedGov is going to be very disappointed if they are planning on raising taxes from these businesses or their owners.
"If he'd played it the way Bush would have played it, there'd be 25% unemployment right now and Bush would be huddled in a corner somewhere in the White House in a drunken stupor."
Easy to play that game: "If Bush were elected to a third term, we would be out of this mess already."
See how easy it is to make sh*t up?
As for buying time, notice that no one has lifted one finger to clean up the housing finance mess. Nothing. We still have Fannie and Freddie in "conservatorship", whatever that means. And their stocks still trade, amazingly.
So, 2 years after the secondary markets froze up, and 6+ months after Fannie/Freddie got taken over, nothing has been done (except for BB printing dollars to buy $1.2T of agency MBS).
Shall we buy more time?
I didn't know that mp!!
mmckinl (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/19/2009 - 2:55 pm
"fiat currency" is NOT the problem ...
Fractional reserve banking IS ...
I agree with you that fractional reserve banking is the biggest problem, the "baked in" fraud in modern banking.
A redeemable currency has the benefit of keeping a lid on out of control government spending. Of course, government makes the laws, so it can change the rules regarding redemption its own benefit. Ultimately, you need responsible leaders in government to enforce currency redemption.
LL,
Are you glad that you re-read Inferno first???
I was thinking about jumping straight in, but Inferno is on the shelf if I need it....
"Shall we buy more time? "
Well, the US financial system didn't collapse on Obama's watch, now did it?
Get real.
"I have never been
able to get thru one chapter. Don't know why."
The theme of LOTR is pride versus humility and sacrifice, told as a great adventure. It's extraordinary, and there's nothing like it, at least in English.
"Shall we buy more time? "
The price of time seems to be pretty high these days.
I don't know how much more time we can afford... but people keep calling it priceless.
The Gresham-Horne Law - backstabbing, scamming people displace good people where ever there is money.
Examples - Car industry, Banking indusry, IT industry
Sort of a corollary follow-up to "capitalism".
I'm selling minutes, two for a dollar.
Yep, talked to an atty who was doing well and is just breaking even now, and who, like me, knows all these small business types who are keeping the biz open on savings. This can't last. One (formerly) rich architect has about a year in savings to run his business and then he's out of business, if things don't turn around.
Also, hard equity lenders who lent only up to 60% l to v ratios who are underwater.
We thoroughly depressed each other.
Oh, the atty was doing a bunch of bankruptcies, but now not, because the prospective clients don't have enough money to file and pay him his fee.
'"The One Ring" is our fiat currency.'
Tolkien's One Ring is a literary device, at least so far.
mp
"Adam Smith wrote this :"
F*&k Adam Smith. Every real scholar knows that Adam Smith was a nut case, hired by the Exchequer to do a study on how to project British financial power.
"The Wealth of Nations" was a contracted study, or didn't you know that?
LOL ... Well then take Ben Franklin's word for it ;
He blamed the prohibition of colonial currency for the Revolutionary War !
"In 1938, Dr. Richard A. Lester, an economist at Princeton University, wrote that “The price level during the 52 years prior to the American Revolution and while Pennsylvania was on a paper standard was more stable than the American price level has been during any succeeding fifty-year period.” Pennsylvania established a "land bank" that allowed landowners to borrow scrip with their land as collateral. They could borrow twice the value of their land, half of it representing actual land value, and the other half representing production potential of the land. The loan was to be retired over a set period of years, with the land ownership being restored to the citizen upon payment. When the loan was fully retired, another loan could be taken out."
~~~~
The premise still stands ...
Fiat currency is not the problem ...
Fractional Reserve Banking IS !
"I didn't know that mp!!"
"The Wealth of Nations" was a study contracted by the Exchequer's office.
Interestingly, Jas is right about one thing. People are born and bred dopes.
If you want to know why, read the section in "Wealth of Nations" concerning EDUCATION. It's an eye-opener.
Educate them just enough to earn and pay taxes, but no more, otherwise they'll start asking questions.
"I didn't know that mp!!"
"The Wealth of Nations" was a study contracted by the Exchequer's office.
Interestingly, Jas is right about one thing. People are born and bred dopes.
If you want to know why, read the section in "Wealth of Nations" concerning EDUCATION. It's an eye-opener.
Educate them just enough to earn and pay taxes, but no more, otherwise they'll start asking questions.
"I did like the guy who was perpetually sniviling over his "precious"."
Golum, I think would have to be Paulson.
"Well, the US financial system didn't collapse on Obama's watch, now did it?"
Did I say it did? It didn't collapse under Bush's watch either. It collapsed under Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter...
Blaming any one party or the other doesn't help much now, does it?
Neither does buying time.
"mmckinl (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/19/2009 - 2:20 pm The Reaganomic Depression ...
Debt printing
Union busting
offshoring
outsourcing
leveraged buyout
pension busting
oligarchic tax cutting
Trickle Down Reaganomics Depression ... "
I know Pavel, I like fantasy, but for some reason I've never taken to Lord of the Rs.
Did you read Inferno at least once Landlord?
Also for Falco fans a new book and also a new book for Agent Prendergast fans.
Let's all go shopping. Screw the limit.
Yeah yeah, Golum definitely === Paulson.
Comrade Coinz
"fiat currency" is NOT the problem ...
Fractional reserve banking IS ...
I agree with you that fractional reserve banking is the biggest problem, the "baked in" fraud in modern banking.
A redeemable currency has the benefit of keeping a lid on out of control government spending. Of course, government makes the laws, so it can change the rules regarding redemption its own benefit. Ultimately, you need responsible leaders in government to enforce currency redemption.
~~~~
Exactly right ... We need one producer of currency and credit to control the money supply ...
The Constitution gives the Federal Government this right ... It was usurped by the Banks so they could
profit from their ill gotten monopoly of money creation.
If the citizens carry the risk, they should have the reward ...
Why should we borrow our own money from the banks ?
nades -- I'm loaded up, but have been for a full month already. I have a distinct sensation that somebody is propping the markets up, whether it is the government, or the investment arms of a bunch of banks in collaboration. The market would crash tomorrow if they removed the floor. But I think they're holding it up to let a few more companies re-cap, lure a few more retail buyers, and squeeze the shorts to death. Since they're all screwed when it collapses, maybe they'll wait and see if confidence alone can prevent the deflationary wave.
With the VIX this low, and some terrible companies as overbought/overvalued as they currently are, I think you'd see several multiples on October expiring puts.
The other possibility is that the VIX is crashing because those in the know have been told that inflation is the game plan. But I think deflation for a while is much more likely.
The Terminator: I'll be back.
"We thoroughly depressed each other. "
Tell me about it. I know a lot of small real estate developers who live in my neighborhood. Not a happy crowd.
Amazing how much of the economy came to depend on housing and housing finance. Totally unsustainable.
"Blaming any one party or the other doesn't help much now, does it?"
Who's blaming it on a party? I'm certainly not. I haven't voted in forty years and have no axe to grind on that score.
I want to wait for the deal to be done... Then request all of GM's product plans and current design files under the Freedom of Information Act.
Then post them on the Internet for Ford and all to see...
The files are certainly not related to national security.
Lawyerliz,
Yes, recievership is probably a condition of the bid. What I'm wondering whether BankUnited will be like WAMU which went failed on a Thursday and straight to JPM by Friday morning. In WAMU's case I assumed it was so the FDIC didn't have to float backing deposits over the weekend but I was never really sure. Or maybe BKUNA will be closer to the Wachovia model which technically wasn't a failure.
"Did you read Inferno at least once Landlord?"
Yes, but it was probably in the late '70s or early '80s.
"The other possibility is that the VIX is crashing because those in the know have been told that inflation is the game plan. But I think deflation for a while is much more likely."
Maybe not. We could get inflation pretty quickly.
"I know Pavel, I like fantasy, but for some reason I've never taken to Lord of the Rs."
LOTR is extraordinary in that the fantasy is realistic, at least in terms of character, the invention is splendid, and the narrative almost never fails to move.
"Did you read Inferno..."
I've read parts in English, which is probably completely inadequate. To understand and appreciate The Comedy, not only should you read it in Italian, but you must understand the spirit and world view of medieval Catholicism. The Paradiso is sublime, but I think you have to be a Christian to fully understand it, even in translation.
In the last canto, 33, Dante says something like: In paradise God gathers all the scattered pages of the world and puts them together again in one volume.
You could do without reading Inferno.
I respect the inflationistas, but I just don't think that there is enough in- to counteract the de-.
Well, if we can't work, we will have a lotta fantasy novels to read!
"It collapsed under Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter..."
Sorry, but that's an absolute cop-out.
It's like saying the reason you're going to die is because you were born.
Please.
Oh, Pavel, we non-sublime types were talking about Niven's lake off, not Dante's original,
which I did read very many years ago--in English.
Liz hangs head in literary shame.
"nades -- I'm loaded up, but have been for a full month already."
We're getting out. The phone call has been made. I have no special information, just instinct. We're not big players, but nevertheless we're outa there. We're too old to mess with it.
Ah, well apparently BAC just issued 800M shares at $10/pop. Who's left?? Doubtful that Citi is going to do anything significant.... Maybe a couple of the REITs? Otherwise, the party might be about over...
I don't remember Dante's Purgatorio or Paradise at all, but I do remember the inferno in bits.
"Oh, Pavel, we non-sublime types were talking about Niven's lake off"
Ahhhh!
Ford sold some shares to retire debt didn't it in the last week or so?
CR has thrown out a new bone, so the pack moves on, just as we were getting somewhere. Oh, well.
I guess it's time for me to move on as well.
CR has thrown out a new bone, so the pack moves on, just as we were getting somewhere. Oh, well.
I guess it's time for me to move on as well.
Market shot for this week ....all monied types headed down to the Caribbean for long 10 day weekend..