Seidman's excellent lessons learned were no longer followed after repeal of Glass-Steagall and has got progressively worse since then.
also here's a prescient quote from 1999 in the New York Times:
"I think we will look back in 10 years' time and say we should not have done this but we did because we forgot the lessons of the past, and that that which is true in the 1930's is true in 2010," said Senator Byron L. Dorgan, Democrat of North Dakota. "I wasn't around during the 1930's or the debate over Glass-Steagall. But I was here in the early 1980's when it was decided to allow the expansion of savings and loans. We have now decided in the name of modernization to forget the lessons of the past, of safety and of soundness."
Response to hurricane question last thread. Bolting the roof on wouldn't have helped. On the wind side, the roof was equipped with metal straps enbedded in the concrete strip above the blocks, forget whatcha call it and they TORE away. These huge decorative fascia planks--4 by 6s at least nailed now with huge (9 inch?) nails in the shape of a V, tore off and waled end over end over the roof, punching holes as it went and ended up resting against the frount of the house and the next 2 trusses tore off too. Only thing that would work is poured concrete roof or really well installed tiles. There was one development surrounded by many with tiles, where they did not blow away, so it could be done. The asphalt shingles blew away, and of course the tar paper under it blew away, except for a few rows at the other end of the house.
A pomelo tree went through the window of my daughter's room. All in all it wouldn't have mattered of the roof entirely stayed on. Everything would have been lost to mildew. Code was enormously strengthened and our house was rebuilt much more strongly, but the hub & I used to debate how strong a hurricane we'd stay there for.
Another example of the kind of personal character and objectivity which the baby boomers almost totally lack and which is probably lost forever as this generation passes
It was refreshing to see someone on TV that could actually see fraud and call it. The only real respectable individual ever to actually work for CNBC. I sometimes wondered how he could keep himself from calling the anchors complete idiots.
Much respect for him also - he didn't pretend to have all the answers just the energy & persistence to keep clawing through the problem. We need that again... need it badly.
I wish to express my sincere regrets to the family at the passing of a great and wonderful man. There will come an appropriate time to assess his contributions. I believe that one will find that his contributions matched his gifts which were enormous but that toward the end his affection for the Republican Party and conservative causes endured long after their usefulness had been dissipated. May he rest in peace along with those who loved him.
"America can always be counted on to do the right thing when all of the easier wrong alternatives have been tried."
Winston Churchill said that, though I think his version was pithier. Our strength in the past has been our reserves as a nation: we've actually had the men, resources, and organization to do the right thing after screwing around for five, ten, or twenty years.
In his memoir [published in 1993], Seidman offered a set of lessons learned. They included, “Instruct regulators to look for the newest fad in the industry and examine it with great care. The next mistake will be a new way to make a loan that will not be repaid.”
In the view of some people that lived through the Great Depression, long-term home loans were a mistake that would one day destroy the nation.
It was another world, but seeing Bill Seidman on TV what, 20 years ago, gave you the impression that a non-fox was in the henhouse. The guys today, well, they have the acronym machine running great. I've goto think that it was his personal integrity bolstered by more authority, and he was addressing a more addressable problem. But I feel kind of slimy even being charitable to the fixers in place today.
To regulate, you must have faith in the past and future of a nation.
You must be endeared to the rule of law.
You must heartily detest even the appearance of fraud.
And you must love your country and fellows above self.
Fighting the good fight, labouring to winnow grain from chaff.
Your discriminations must create a better world,
allow good to prosper and make evil quail.
May a great creator or what power has so formed inanimate matter to animate,
have mercy upon the souls of its creation. Giving peace.
May the scales fall from the eyes of the blind,
and may those seeking sustenance from the labours of others--
not find it.
And may the unadulterated high places of fathers,
and their absolute sanctuaries be preserved.
And may man both alone, and by union with others
receive reward in proportion to his honourable service to his betters.
And when qualified, enter in the narrow gate and society,
of beings alike, exalted no longer diminished.
To have capacity to injure, and withhold wrath,
To have great power, and employ it with compassion,
To enjoy great fortune, and give it for betterment,
To have vision, and proclaim it for enlarging freedom.
To be seduced by all corrupting influence, and resist.
We should make the lenders keep 10% skin in the game in his honor."
Does orange skin count?
Hey broward,
I don't know if you noticed my response in the previous thread, but I dug up this quote regarding the point I was trying to make regarding social programming:
When looked at from the point of view of gene selection, many biological phenomena that, in prior models, were difficult to explain become easier to understand. In particular, phenomena such as kin selection and eusociality, where organisms act altruistically, against their individual interests (in the sense of health, safety or personal reproduction) to help related organisms reproduce, can be explained as gene sets "helping" copies of themselves (or sequences with the same phenotypic effect) in other bodies to replicate. Interestingly, the "selfish" actions of genes lead to unselfish actions by organisms.
To regulate, you must have faith in the past and future of a nation.
You must be endeared to the rule of law.
You must heartily detest even the appearance of fraud.
And you must love your country and fellows above self.
....another of the "old school" has checked out. We haven't learned much since the RTC days - at least the last fiasco prompted me to realize they're all thieves and cutthroats and to depend on nothing except chickens, cows & gardens.........and some family.
broward writes in last thread: "Which... I guess, is sort of what Ben is doing. "
Uh, he may be attempting to sort out who owes what to whom and all that. I doubt his head rests easy upon his pillow at night though. Bombs Away Ben knows more than any of us. He also has his instructions from his handlers. I don't pity this man, this very smart and erudite man from humble beginnings. I do, however, know he is suffering. As in there is suffering and the awareness of suffering. He is suffering at quite a different level than you and I. I pray for his success. I am engaged in a strategy I employed when serving: If ever you find yourself in an ambush, assume you are dead and attack in the direction from which the fire is coming. 50% dead is better than total loss.
In civilian terms assume you failed and work to mitigate your losses.
I don't think "Old Europe" is as unregulated as the US was but that sure didn't prevent their banking crisis from requiring many blns of Euros to prop up their insolvent banks.
Need for regulation + teeth behind legal prosecution. Clawback provisions would be useful.
Thanks. America was a place that somehow tranformed a lot of tribal behavior into national behavior, which is cursed by some but really, getting 300 million people to cooperate this well is virtually impossible anywhere else on the planet.
I wish things would work right again.
Do Bernanke and Geithner and the various henchmen even realize what they're doing, long-term?
I'm often glad I have no children and not much dependency on the future beyond the next two decades or so.
Things alternate between commonality and differentiation. I've spent a fair amount of time on the idea from a software & cost standpoint. I'm pretty sure the interest rate cycle is strongly correlated to waves of differentiation which reach & exceed marginal utility and then collapse back to conformity, i.e. the last Depression & Nazi Germany. I'm pretty sure it's happening now in the U.S. in different guises. Not a good place to be if you're outside of the norm. I expected it for myself. I didn't think my siblings would get caught in it, though, they're nowhere near as controversial as I've been.
"He is suffering at quite a different level than you and I."
Probably the percentage bet.
I have more respect for Ben since GhostInvesta brought the MBS purchases to our attention.
The last five years have really sucked, overall.
I never dreamed it would get so weird and convoluted.
That article about CIA & Obama as enemies was an interesting confirmation of what I already suspected.
Ben's in too deep, still clutching onto that brass ring for all he's worth, a condemned man happy with his temporary stay, exactly 15 minutes by my watch.
i always felt that people who traded futures at 9:00 PM EST are the same ones that probably know the spread between Central Michigan and Western Michigan.
I have less than no respect for BB - he should have stepped down long ago.
The only thing more striking than his totally oblivious idiocy in terms of not seeing the obvious seeds of this crisis is his positively harebrained take on the depression.
I hope he's a good husband and father - because he's a complete and total failure in every other aspect of his existence.
........tomorrow brings us jobless claims, notice by Chrysler of at least 800 dealers getting the "heave-ho", and more chicanery. Friday will be a veritable FEAST of bad news starting with the 1000-1200 GM dealers getting the axe, the TIC report, BFF, and I'm sure some surprise guests.
Who amongst the current crop of financial or economic leaders can come close to Seidman or Volcker in terms of their integrity, acuity, influence, and focus on the long term over the short term?
........tomorrow brings us jobless claims, notice by Chrysler of at least 800 dealers getting the "heave-ho", and more chicanery. Friday will be a veritable FEAST of bad news starting with the 1000-1200 GM dealers getting the axe, the TIC report, BFF, and I'm sure some surprise guests.
I know a Chrysler dealership that bought a struggling local Ford dealership just to 'stay alive' a bit longer. Talk about grasping at flotsam & jetsam.
Bob Dobbs - "Our strength in the past has been our reserves as a nation: we've actually had the men, resources, and organization to do the right thing after screwing around for five, ten, or twenty years. Do we still?"
Short answer: No.
How long have you lived in NorCal? I'm a life-long Calif native living in OC. (My wife is a r/e honcho - I'm sure she knows CR, so please don't tell her I'm posting here.) The state bears no resemblance to what it was even 10 years ago.
In many ways, the states and country as a whole are just the proverbial '3rd generation heirs' who inherited a productive, healthy organization and quickly ran it into the ground. (For some reason, the NY Times Co springs to mind.)
We have no productive capital basis for recovery - we went into debt & spent our wad pulling forward consumption from future periods to purchase deprecating goods with a compounding interest charge on top for good measure. We have a bifurcated labor pool where only a small fraction are able to compete in high value, non-commodity sectors not subject to global wage arbitrage.
To make matters worse, the era of cheap energy has passed, denying us at least a brute force method of increasing output & productivity.
The last time we were experienced this combination of factors in the 30s, our population was around 150m, the huge ME oil reserves had only been recently discovered, but not yet tapped, and more importantly, our demographics had something like 6-10:1 younger workers per elderly persons.
Even then, the market didn't regain its 1929 highs until 1955! (And this is after Germany & Japan's entire productive basis was completely destroyed in WWII.) This time around, our pop is over 350m, energy reserves are tight, and the demographic pyramid is practically inverted.
In fact, if our population more than doubled from 150m to 350m in the span of 70 years, imagine the math required to experience the same gross increase: 800m people!
I hope various readers begin to grasp the scope of how f#cked we truly are. The only possible way out would be some incredible new tech discoveries, yet history has shown time & time again that the type of environment needed for that kind of breakthrough is the one of limited taxes & regulations. The exact opposite of where we are headed.
This thing ain't getting any better until the whole thing comes crashing down and has to be re-assembled from scratch.
That man was an AMERICAN....he was one of the last hopes for change. His knowledge and experience has, thus far, been ignored and discounted. NEVER discount a man that "has been there and done that". You know how much smarter you dad became once you turned 30......Still waiting for Obama to grow up and stop running with those punk kidz that think they know something about finance and banking. Banking is not sexy or cool. Banking is about analyzing risk and being prudent. Both areas where out current crop has totally FAILED miserably. Mr. Seidman is a true American Hero that will be missed and lamented for quite some time. He left us when he was needed most.......We will miss you Bill.
Snerf (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Wed, 5/13/2009 - 6:19 pm
I'm a life-long Calif native living in OC. (My wife is a r/e honcho - I'm sure she knows CR, so please don't tell her I'm posting here.) The state bears no resemblance to what it was even 10 years ago.
In many ways, the states and country as a whole are just the proverbial '3rd generation heirs' who inherited a productive, healthy organization and quickly ran it into the ground. (For some reason, the NY Times Co springs to mind.)
Testify brother! California is to the US what the Boston Globe is to the NYTimes Co.
I'm even more guilty. As a transplant I've not only diminished California by my mere presence but also diluted the gene pool. The California c. 1983 when I arrived on a Honda 400 with a suit and a degree is unrecognizable today.
patientrenter (profile) wrote on Wed, 5/13/2009 - 6:11 pm reply Ignore user
One of the giants has fallen.
Who amongst the current crop of financial or economic leaders can come close to Seidman or Volcker in terms of their integrity, acuity, influence, and focus on the long term over the short term?
I wasn't old enough to have followed to S & L stuff closely- and given that most people got info via the MSM those days, I doubt many people "of age" knew the details of what was happening. Still, this guy clearly seems to understand the role of a regulator- someone who knows that you need to prevent people from acting on their own worst instincts. Regulators these last 10 years seem to only to appease the regulated.
Sadly, we seem to have lost the view that working "in the nation's service" is more honorable than getting rich at any price.
Bill Seidman was... no... remains a mom and dad surrogate. He was 88. Think about that. He was ~10 at "The Crash" and an adult coming out the back side. Our "CR" is an inheritor of that mantle/legacy. We make light about bankerdomes and other jokes but in the end... sorry I can't go on.
RD, you could be right. I certainly would be relieved if he replaced Summers or Geithner or Bernanke. I just don't know how well CR is known outside our little circle. For all our sakes, he should have worked as a WH aide out of college, and then on a senior Congressman's staff... and then have taken over an agency....
RD, you could be right. I certainly would be relieved if he replaced Summers or Geithner or Bernanke. I just don't know how well CR is known outside our little circle. For all our sakes, he should have worked as a WH aide out of college, and then on a senior Congressman's staff... and then have taken over an agency....
CR has more sense than to take on that task. Can't head off and anonymously hike Zion or Capital Reef if you are giving press conferences on CNBC or getting grilled by Senators...
I think the failure of the regulator over the last 10+ years is a function of elections getting exponentially more expensive. Politicians are far more reliant on the specific interest groups that fund their elections/re-elections, and will appease their funders by appointing the folks they want to the obscure boards that few voters know exist, but have real power.
As unpopular as it is, and as complicated as it is, publicly funded elections would do a lot to get interest groups out of politics and encourage decisions to be made for more honorable reasons.
Term limits are another problem here in CA- appease an interest group like bankers or insurers, and you'll get a high paying lobbyist job when your term expires. Fight them, and you're back to being a $40,000 a year community organizer begging for a grant to fund you again next year.
.. capit-O-l reef, dryfly. One of my favorite places. I have spent weeks hiking in the remoter areas there. To beat the remoteness and beauty of some of that area, you actually would have to go to places in the Sahara... and bring a tank for protection!
Bearly - in many respects, they were more unregulated. That is one reason why the US developed arbitrage envy in the 90s. The claim was that our outmoded and overly restrictive banking regulations were causing us to be uncompetitive.
But GLB has done a lot of damage in the name of keeping up with the successful Jones' on the other side of the pond. It sounded so good.
My deepest concern is not the next two years, but how we unwind the coil we have made. All of these institutions that are too big to fail are like a cancer. They will have to be split up before we can get back to some level of sanity and confidence.
Just the additional FDIC insurance tariffs alone on the smaller banks that didn't go nuts are going to produce a pull-back on their lending. It seems to me that we are avoiding confronting reality and keep sucking from the functional to support the dysfunctional.
The reason why zombie banks are such a tax on the economy is that they keep pulling money out of their paying customers to pay for the losses on their non-paying customers. By raiding the FDIC, we are creating a nation of zombie banks.
well put, snerf. this is why all sensible folks await the death of the median baby boomer as the day we can take this country seriously again on many levels.
Ah,the good old days in cali,SF Bay area population under 1MM,orange groves in San Jose,kids I went to HS with coming home in body bags,Blacks who knew their place until those pesky Black Panthers showed up...parts were better ,parts a lot worse.What we have now is not sustainable AT ALL....get comfortable with uncontrollable change.
BTW - I am nowhere near as long term pessimistic as snerf above... but then I don't live in the OC... Hell I've never even been there... close as I allowed myself to get to the OC was 'Central Coast'.
We have some major hurdles and we are going to come out poorer [working harder for less purchasing power]... but that doesn't have to be a drop dead unless we commit societal suicide. I'm not there yet... but again from fly over it doesn't appear that different than it ever was... just a little 'less so'.
well put, snerf. this is why all sensible folks await the death of the median baby boomer as the day we can take this country seriously again on many levels.
You wait for Gadot much? Hint: instead of bitching maybe you should MAKE SOMETHING waiting for G'Ma to kick. She might out live you.
Bill Seidman was old school with well earned lessons, practice and respect. The problem with today government is simple we get the best politically acceptable people but not the best qualified. The best are not dominated and only work with the best, not a bunch of appointed political hacks. Obama's community organizers are not the best qualified. America has not had the best for a few decades. Enjoy the ride
.. capit-O-l reef, dryfly. One of my favorite places. I have spent weeks hiking in the remoter areas there. To beat the remoteness and beauty of some of that area, you actually would have to go to places in the Sahara... and bring a tank for protection!
Yes - I've hiked there too though didn't go in too deep [was on a biz trip to Vegas & drove instead of flew - camped & hiked all the way out and back]. I did Zion & the North Rim on the same trip. One of the joys of working for yourself is not having to explain to your boss why a one week trip took three weeks.
["A weak dollar doesn't matter if you stay in America."
He can't be that stupid - he had to be lying]
I agree he was lying. Under oath. But what chaps my ass is he thought he could get away with those bald-faced lies in front of congress and HE DID, without any direct questioning. Elected officials are either spineless, complicit or stupid... or ALL THREE! So Central bankers, regulators... all of them get a pass all the time...
Bill Seidman was a GOD when he was FDIC Chairman and the FDIC's new Arlington, VA complex of buildings and training hotel were originally named the Seidman Center. Later, I think under President Clinton the FDIC changed the name to Virginia Square, however most FDIC old timers continue to refer to the Seidman Cnter in casual conversation. He was one of the last FDIC Chairman born before the Great Depression with real honest to the bone integrity and guts. I enjoyed every day working at FDIC while he was chairman. May his family find some comfort in their time of great loss.
I've had a lot of respect for Mr. Seidman since his role with the RTC. I've been scratching my head over the fact he was a long-time member of the boards of directors of CapMark (formeraly GMAC Commercial Mortgage) and GMAC Bank.
Straight Shooter. He will be missed.
R.I.P.
One of the few guys I liked on CNBS.
Mine too.
We should make the lenders keep 10% skin in the game in his honor.
"They don't make them like they used to."
thoughts, prayers and much respect...... as my father was pres of an old S&L in the bad times.... thanks for doing it right.
Seidman's excellent lessons learned were no longer followed after repeal of Glass-Steagall and has got progressively worse since then.
also here's a prescient quote from 1999 in the New York Times:
"I think we will look back in 10 years' time and say we should not have done this but we did because we forgot the lessons of the past, and that that which is true in the 1930's is true in 2010," said Senator Byron L. Dorgan, Democrat of North Dakota. "I wasn't around during the 1930's or the debate over Glass-Steagall. But I was here in the early 1980's when it was decided to allow the expansion of savings and loans. We have now decided in the name of modernization to forget the lessons of the past, of safety and of soundness."
When I used to watch CNBC he was one of the good guys. It must have been tough for someone of his character and intellect to be amongst those morons.
Seidman must have been quite disappointed to see the banks self-destruct so soon after he led the FDIC in the last bankster cleanup.
R.I.P.
See, this is what happens if you speak the truth on CNBC. You end up dead. Those bastards!
Response to hurricane question last thread. Bolting the roof on wouldn't have helped. On the wind side, the roof was equipped with metal straps enbedded in the concrete strip above the blocks, forget whatcha call it and they TORE away. These huge decorative fascia planks--4 by 6s at least nailed now with huge (9 inch?) nails in the shape of a V, tore off and waled end over end over the roof, punching holes as it went and ended up resting against the frount of the house and the next 2 trusses tore off too. Only thing that would work is poured concrete roof or really well installed tiles. There was one development surrounded by many with tiles, where they did not blow away, so it could be done. The asphalt shingles blew away, and of course the tar paper under it blew away, except for a few rows at the other end of the house.
A pomelo tree went through the window of my daughter's room. All in all it wouldn't have mattered of the roof entirely stayed on. Everything would have been lost to mildew. Code was enormously strengthened and our house was rebuilt much more strongly, but the hub & I used to debate how strong a hurricane we'd stay there for.
Not an Andrew.
"Those bastards! "
So is that what happened to Dylan Ratigan?
I was wondering how they would silence him
Another example of the kind of personal character and objectivity which the baby boomers almost totally lack and which is probably lost forever as this generation passes
It was refreshing to see someone on TV that could actually see fraud and call it. The only real respectable individual ever to actually work for CNBC. I sometimes wondered how he could keep himself from calling the anchors complete idiots.
"We should make the lenders keep 10% skin in the game in his honor."
Does orange skin count?
We should make the lenders keep 10% skin in the game in his honor.
We should make the regulators keep 10% skin in the game in his honor.
Depends on whose orange skin it is.
Nitey-nite.
Where will the mkt go tomorrow.
cue it up and play it loud..... "it's all just a little bit of history repeating !!"
One of the greatest banking regulators this country has ever had. Sad to see him go.
Much respect for him also - he didn't pretend to have all the answers just the energy & persistence to keep clawing through the problem. We need that again... need it badly.
Unfortunately, it looks like we all have skin in this game whether we lose it directly, or through grafting.
Oops, I've made a pun.
He will definitely be missed. Of course, we shall not heed what he said until we have too.
America can always be counted on to do the right thing when all of the easier wrong alternatives have been tried.
Housing is still continuing as a very large crisis, and the banks have just been shoved rudely upright for a while-weekend at Bernanke's continues.
Just remember the Velvet Fist whenever your shorts get too profitable.
We are all Japanese with a precarious currency.
Someday this war's gonna end...
At least some of us will miss you William.
The others, F-em.
Rest In Peace sir, and condolences to the family.
Ross School of Business grad also (Michigan)....sad to see him go.
I wish to express my sincere regrets to the family at the passing of a great and wonderful man. There will come an appropriate time to assess his contributions. I believe that one will find that his contributions matched his gifts which were enormous but that toward the end his affection for the Republican Party and conservative causes endured long after their usefulness had been dissipated. May he rest in peace along with those who loved him.
SS
"America can always be counted on to do the right thing when all of the easier wrong alternatives have been tried."
Winston Churchill said that, though I think his version was pithier. Our strength in the past has been our reserves as a nation: we've actually had the men, resources, and organization to do the right thing after screwing around for five, ten, or twenty years.
Do we still?
In his memoir [published in 1993], Seidman offered a set of lessons learned. They included, “Instruct regulators to look for the newest fad in the industry and examine it with great care. The next mistake will be a new way to make a loan that will not be repaid.”
In the view of some people that lived through the Great Depression, long-term home loans were a mistake that would one day destroy the nation.
Citizen AllenM
you made a prescient call a few weeks ago and should of seen huge returns. You still in or did you take profits?
We who do not learn from our mistakes are doomed to repeat them
It was another world, but seeing Bill Seidman on TV what, 20 years ago, gave you the impression that a non-fox was in the henhouse. The guys today, well, they have the acronym machine running great. I've goto think that it was his personal integrity bolstered by more authority, and he was addressing a more addressable problem. But I feel kind of slimy even being charitable to the fixers in place today.
T.a.n.a
Been easing out, as of last week, but still of two minds about Japan/Asia exposure.
Probably going to raise some more cash, unless oil keeps going.
Work has turned into a total circus, so I haven't had the time to waste here.
Don't expect an instant dive to very bottom- my thesis is that is still years away.
Time will tell if I am correct- but the last few months has erased a bunch of last fall's pain.
Now, we will see what the future brings, but a lot of folks are expecting this economy to explode right away.
It will take quite a while.
Someday this war's gonna end...
To regulate, you must have faith in the past and future of a nation.
You must be endeared to the rule of law.
You must heartily detest even the appearance of fraud.
And you must love your country and fellows above self.
Fighting the good fight, labouring to winnow grain from chaff.
Your discriminations must create a better world,
allow good to prosper and make evil quail.
May a great creator or what power has so formed inanimate matter to animate,
have mercy upon the souls of its creation. Giving peace.
May the scales fall from the eyes of the blind,
and may those seeking sustenance from the labours of others--
not find it.
And may the unadulterated high places of fathers,
and their absolute sanctuaries be preserved.
And may man both alone, and by union with others
receive reward in proportion to his honourable service to his betters.
And when qualified, enter in the narrow gate and society,
of beings alike, exalted no longer diminished.
To have capacity to injure, and withhold wrath,
To have great power, and employ it with compassion,
To enjoy great fortune, and give it for betterment,
To have vision, and proclaim it for enlarging freedom.
To be seduced by all corrupting influence, and resist.
That would make a good man, great.
We should make the lenders keep 10% skin in the game in his honor."
Does orange skin count?
Hey broward,
I don't know if you noticed my response in the previous thread, but I dug up this quote regarding the point I was trying to make regarding social programming:
When looked at from the point of view of gene selection, many biological phenomena that, in prior models, were difficult to explain become easier to understand. In particular, phenomena such as kin selection and eusociality, where organisms act altruistically, against their individual interests (in the sense of health, safety or personal reproduction) to help related organisms reproduce, can be explained as gene sets "helping" copies of themselves (or sequences with the same phenotypic effect) in other bodies to replicate. Interestingly, the "selfish" actions of genes lead to unselfish actions by organisms.
Genetic morality.
The Selfish Gene
BTW haplodiplody would simply be the most extreme form of this kind of phenomenon.
I met Mr Seidman twice. He was a kind and generous man. He will be greatly missed.
To regulate, you must have faith in the past and future of a nation.
You must be endeared to the rule of law.
You must heartily detest even the appearance of fraud.
And you must love your country and fellows above self.
It doesn't sound like we can regulate then. =(
Those who forget history are condemned to repeat it.. and everyone wants to create a better ponzi scheme
Another reptilian bites the dust.
I don't mean to be agist, but what's going to happen when all the older people who know how to actually make a stable profit at banking are gone?
Thanks C AllenM and good luck
Janus jurisprudence in matters financial lost it's way today...
R.I.P.
....another of the "old school" has checked out. We haven't learned much since the RTC days - at least the last fiasco prompted me to realize they're all thieves and cutthroats and to depend on nothing except chickens, cows & gardens.........and some family.
WSJ says SEC about to bring civil fraud charges against Tan Man Mozilo.
ABOUT FRIGGIN TIME!!!
broward writes in last thread: "Which... I guess, is sort of what Ben is doing. "
Uh, he may be attempting to sort out who owes what to whom and all that. I doubt his head rests easy upon his pillow at night though. Bombs Away Ben knows more than any of us. He also has his instructions from his handlers. I don't pity this man, this very smart and erudite man from humble beginnings. I do, however, know he is suffering. As in there is suffering and the awareness of suffering. He is suffering at quite a different level than you and I. I pray for his success. I am engaged in a strategy I employed when serving: If ever you find yourself in an ambush, assume you are dead and attack in the direction from which the fire is coming. 50% dead is better than total loss.
In civilian terms assume you failed and work to mitigate your losses.
I don't think "Old Europe" is as unregulated as the US was but that sure didn't prevent their banking crisis from requiring many blns of Euros to prop up their insolvent banks.
Need for regulation + teeth behind legal prosecution. Clawback provisions would be useful.
Greed was Good, all over the world.
"Genetic morality."
No, I missed that, ac.
Thanks. America was a place that somehow tranformed a lot of tribal behavior into national behavior, which is cursed by some but really, getting 300 million people to cooperate this well is virtually impossible anywhere else on the planet.
I wish things would work right again.
Do Bernanke and Geithner and the various henchmen even realize what they're doing, long-term?
I'm often glad I have no children and not much dependency on the future beyond the next two decades or so.
Things alternate between commonality and differentiation. I've spent a fair amount of time on the idea from a software & cost standpoint. I'm pretty sure the interest rate cycle is strongly correlated to waves of differentiation which reach & exceed marginal utility and then collapse back to conformity, i.e. the last Depression & Nazi Germany. I'm pretty sure it's happening now in the U.S. in different guises. Not a good place to be if you're outside of the norm. I expected it for myself. I didn't think my siblings would get caught in it, though, they're nowhere near as controversial as I've been.
I've got a dinner to go to in Wallingford.
"....assume you are dead and attack in the direction from which the fire is coming."
.....and I might add, many steer clear of "the crazy".
"He is suffering at quite a different level than you and I."
Probably the percentage bet.
I have more respect for Ben since GhostInvesta brought the MBS purchases to our attention.
The last five years have really sucked, overall.
I never dreamed it would get so weird and convoluted.
That article about CIA & Obama as enemies was an interesting confirmation of what I already suspected.
Later.
What's funny, is people keep worrying about a lost decade ahead....
well, guess what? We just HAD one....employment, back to nov 2000 and dropping. Savings, toast. back to days earlier than that.
Just think if we have another one, which is looking likely...we'll have lost like 20 years or possibly more. Outrageous.
And what really HAPPENED over that time...a massive wealth transfer. To Banksters and their ilk.
sick i tell ya, sick.
Need for regulation + teeth behind legal prosecution. Clawback provisions would be useful.
Sign me up!
Ben's in too deep, still clutching onto that brass ring for all he's worth, a condemned man happy with his temporary stay, exactly 15 minutes by my watch.
In the view of some people that lived through the Great Depression, long-term home loans were a mistake that would one day destroy the nation.
If all you borrow short to lend long you get hurt eventually. But I think that properly done securitization addresses that.
What's funny, is people keep worrying about a lost decade ahead....
well, guess what? We just HAD one.
Okay - 'lost decadeS'... Better?
Edit: and yes I think we'll have at least two... sick hardly describes it.
Dow and S&P futures turned positive. Green shoots
Greed, and greed only...
in my blue veins
YouTube - Blue veins - The Raconteurs
i always felt that people who traded futures at 9:00 PM EST are the same ones that probably know the spread between Central Michigan and Western Michigan.
"I do, however, know he is suffering."
I have less than no respect for BB - he should have stepped down long ago.
The only thing more striking than his totally oblivious idiocy in terms of not seeing the obvious seeds of this crisis is his positively harebrained take on the depression.
I hope he's a good husband and father - because he's a complete and total failure in every other aspect of his existence.
"the spread between Central Michigan and Western Michigan."
the ones who are able to keep playing in both kinds of casino are probably more interested in the moneyline than the spread
I knew a friend had gone over the deep end, when I found out he was gambling thousands upon the outcome of pre-season NFL Games, imagine that?
........tomorrow brings us jobless claims, notice by Chrysler of at least 800 dealers getting the "heave-ho", and more chicanery. Friday will be a veritable FEAST of bad news starting with the 1000-1200 GM dealers getting the axe, the TIC report, BFF, and I'm sure some surprise guests.
Just got the news. Too bad.
One of the giants has fallen.
Who amongst the current crop of financial or economic leaders can come close to Seidman or Volcker in terms of their integrity, acuity, influence, and focus on the long term over the short term?
I have less than no respect for BB - he should have stepped down long ago.
To paraphase only slightly, this is the guy who told Congress:
"Subprime is contained."
"A weak dollar doesn't matter if you stay in America."
He can't be that stupid - he had to be lying.
Spread between Western & Central? About 100 miles as the bird flies give or take 10.
........tomorrow brings us jobless claims, notice by Chrysler of at least 800 dealers getting the "heave-ho", and more chicanery. Friday will be a veritable FEAST of bad news starting with the 1000-1200 GM dealers getting the axe, the TIC report, BFF, and I'm sure some surprise guests.
I know a Chrysler dealership that bought a struggling local Ford dealership just to 'stay alive' a bit longer. Talk about grasping at flotsam & jetsam.
Thursday morning was his regular slot. No reason to watch that station tomorrow.
Bob Dobbs - "Our strength in the past has been our reserves as a nation: we've actually had the men, resources, and organization to do the right thing after screwing around for five, ten, or twenty years. Do we still?"
Short answer: No.
How long have you lived in NorCal? I'm a life-long Calif native living in OC. (My wife is a r/e honcho - I'm sure she knows CR, so please don't tell her I'm posting here.) The state bears no resemblance to what it was even 10 years ago.
In many ways, the states and country as a whole are just the proverbial '3rd generation heirs' who inherited a productive, healthy organization and quickly ran it into the ground. (For some reason, the NY Times Co springs to mind.)
We have no productive capital basis for recovery - we went into debt & spent our wad pulling forward consumption from future periods to purchase deprecating goods with a compounding interest charge on top for good measure. We have a bifurcated labor pool where only a small fraction are able to compete in high value, non-commodity sectors not subject to global wage arbitrage.
To make matters worse, the era of cheap energy has passed, denying us at least a brute force method of increasing output & productivity.
The last time we were experienced this combination of factors in the 30s, our population was around 150m, the huge ME oil reserves had only been recently discovered, but not yet tapped, and more importantly, our demographics had something like 6-10:1 younger workers per elderly persons.
Even then, the market didn't regain its 1929 highs until 1955! (And this is after Germany & Japan's entire productive basis was completely destroyed in WWII.) This time around, our pop is over 350m, energy reserves are tight, and the demographic pyramid is practically inverted.
In fact, if our population more than doubled from 150m to 350m in the span of 70 years, imagine the math required to experience the same gross increase: 800m people!
I hope various readers begin to grasp the scope of how f#cked we truly are. The only possible way out would be some incredible new tech discoveries, yet history has shown time & time again that the type of environment needed for that kind of breakthrough is the one of limited taxes & regulations. The exact opposite of where we are headed.
This thing ain't getting any better until the whole thing comes crashing down and has to be re-assembled from scratch.
That man was an AMERICAN....he was one of the last hopes for change. His knowledge and experience has, thus far, been ignored and discounted. NEVER discount a man that "has been there and done that". You know how much smarter you dad became once you turned 30......Still waiting for Obama to grow up and stop running with those punk kidz that think they know something about finance and banking. Banking is not sexy or cool. Banking is about analyzing risk and being prudent. Both areas where out current crop has totally FAILED miserably. Mr. Seidman is a true American Hero that will be missed and lamented for quite some time. He left us when he was needed most.......We will miss you Bill.
Snerf (profile) wrote (in reply to...) on Wed, 5/13/2009 - 6:19 pm
I'm a life-long Calif native living in OC. (My wife is a r/e honcho - I'm sure she knows CR, so please don't tell her I'm posting here.) The state bears no resemblance to what it was even 10 years ago.
In many ways, the states and country as a whole are just the proverbial '3rd generation heirs' who inherited a productive, healthy organization and quickly ran it into the ground. (For some reason, the NY Times Co springs to mind.)
Testify brother! California is to the US what the Boston Globe is to the NYTimes Co.
I'm even more guilty. As a transplant I've not only diminished California by my mere presence but also diluted the gene pool. The California c. 1983 when I arrived on a Honda 400 with a suit and a degree is unrecognizable today.
patientrenter (profile) wrote on Wed, 5/13/2009 - 6:11 pm reply Ignore user
One of the giants has fallen.
Who amongst the current crop of financial or economic leaders can come close to Seidman or Volcker in terms of their integrity, acuity, influence, and focus on the long term over the short term?
CR. I am serious.
Put me in the amen section of that choir, RD...
So many jackals of all trades, so few tired of their tirades...
I wasn't old enough to have followed to S & L stuff closely- and given that most people got info via the MSM those days, I doubt many people "of age" knew the details of what was happening. Still, this guy clearly seems to understand the role of a regulator- someone who knows that you need to prevent people from acting on their own worst instincts. Regulators these last 10 years seem to only to appease the regulated.
Sadly, we seem to have lost the view that working "in the nation's service" is more honorable than getting rich at any price.
Regulators are part of the cheating system. You really don't think they are that stupid and blind?
Bill Seidman was... no... remains a mom and dad surrogate. He was 88. Think about that. He was ~10 at "The Crash" and an adult coming out the back side. Our "CR" is an inheritor of that mantle/legacy. We make light about bankerdomes and other jokes but in the end... sorry I can't go on.
RD, you could be right. I certainly would be relieved if he replaced Summers or Geithner or Bernanke. I just don't know how well CR is known outside our little circle. For all our sakes, he should have worked as a WH aide out of college, and then on a senior Congressman's staff... and then have taken over an agency....
RD, you could be right. I certainly would be relieved if he replaced Summers or Geithner or Bernanke. I just don't know how well CR is known outside our little circle. For all our sakes, he should have worked as a WH aide out of college, and then on a senior Congressman's staff... and then have taken over an agency....
CR has more sense than to take on that task. Can't head off and anonymously hike Zion or Capital Reef if you are giving press conferences on CNBC or getting grilled by Senators...
I think the failure of the regulator over the last 10+ years is a function of elections getting exponentially more expensive. Politicians are far more reliant on the specific interest groups that fund their elections/re-elections, and will appease their funders by appointing the folks they want to the obscure boards that few voters know exist, but have real power.
As unpopular as it is, and as complicated as it is, publicly funded elections would do a lot to get interest groups out of politics and encourage decisions to be made for more honorable reasons.
Term limits are another problem here in CA- appease an interest group like bankers or insurers, and you'll get a high paying lobbyist job when your term expires. Fight them, and you're back to being a $40,000 a year community organizer begging for a grant to fund you again next year.
.. capit-O-l reef, dryfly. One of my favorite places. I have spent weeks hiking in the remoter areas there. To beat the remoteness and beauty of some of that area, you actually would have to go to places in the Sahara... and bring a tank for protection!
Bearly - in many respects, they were more unregulated. That is one reason why the US developed arbitrage envy in the 90s. The claim was that our outmoded and overly restrictive banking regulations were causing us to be uncompetitive.
But GLB has done a lot of damage in the name of keeping up with the successful Jones' on the other side of the pond. It sounded so good.
My deepest concern is not the next two years, but how we unwind the coil we have made. All of these institutions that are too big to fail are like a cancer. They will have to be split up before we can get back to some level of sanity and confidence.
Just the additional FDIC insurance tariffs alone on the smaller banks that didn't go nuts are going to produce a pull-back on their lending. It seems to me that we are avoiding confronting reality and keep sucking from the functional to support the dysfunctional.
The reason why zombie banks are such a tax on the economy is that they keep pulling money out of their paying customers to pay for the losses on their non-paying customers. By raiding the FDIC, we are creating a nation of zombie banks.
well put, snerf. this is why all sensible folks await the death of the median baby boomer as the day we can take this country seriously again on many levels.
Ah,the good old days in cali,SF Bay area population under 1MM,orange groves in San Jose,kids I went to HS with coming home in body bags,Blacks who knew their place until those pesky Black Panthers showed up...parts were better ,parts a lot worse.What we have now is not sustainable AT ALL....get comfortable with uncontrollable change.
BTW - I am nowhere near as long term pessimistic as snerf above... but then I don't live in the OC... Hell I've never even been there... close as I allowed myself to get to the OC was 'Central Coast'.
We have some major hurdles and we are going to come out poorer [working harder for less purchasing power]... but that doesn't have to be a drop dead unless we commit societal suicide. I'm not there yet... but again from fly over it doesn't appear that different than it ever was... just a little 'less so'.
well put, snerf. this is why all sensible folks await the death of the median baby boomer as the day we can take this country seriously again on many levels.
You wait for Gadot much? Hint: instead of bitching maybe you should MAKE SOMETHING waiting for G'Ma to kick. She might out live you.
Bill Seidman was old school with well earned lessons, practice and respect. The problem with today government is simple we get the best politically acceptable people but not the best qualified. The best are not dominated and only work with the best, not a bunch of appointed political hacks. Obama's community organizers are not the best qualified. America has not had the best for a few decades. Enjoy the ride
"SF Bay area population under 1MM"
that hasn't been true since WW1 - SF + Oakland alone have been >1MM since.
.. capit-O-l reef, dryfly. One of my favorite places. I have spent weeks hiking in the remoter areas there. To beat the remoteness and beauty of some of that area, you actually would have to go to places in the Sahara... and bring a tank for protection!
Yes - I've hiked there too though didn't go in too deep [was on a biz trip to Vegas & drove instead of flew - camped & hiked all the way out and back]. I did Zion & the North Rim on the same trip. One of the joys of working for yourself is not having to explain to your boss why a one week trip took three weeks.
["A weak dollar doesn't matter if you stay in America."
He can't be that stupid - he had to be lying]
I agree he was lying. Under oath. But what chaps my ass is he thought he could get away with those bald-faced lies in front of congress and HE DID, without any direct questioning. Elected officials are either spineless, complicit or stupid... or ALL THREE! So Central bankers, regulators... all of them get a pass all the time...
I stand corrected,3.6 MM in 1960....
Bill Seidman was a GOD when he was FDIC Chairman and the FDIC's new Arlington, VA complex of buildings and training hotel were originally named the Seidman Center. Later, I think under President Clinton the FDIC changed the name to Virginia Square, however most FDIC old timers continue to refer to the Seidman Cnter in casual conversation. He was one of the last FDIC Chairman born before the Great Depression with real honest to the bone integrity and guts. I enjoyed every day working at FDIC while he was chairman. May his family find some comfort in their time of great loss.
.. capit-O-l reef, dryfly
And in that spirit,..."g-O-dot", dryfly ; )
.. capit-O-l reef, dryfly
And in that spirit,..."g-O-dot", dryfly ; )
LOL!!!
Did I spell North Rim right?
I stand corrected,3.6 MM in 1960....
Probably been posted here already, but in Mr. Seidman's honor, a picture of our current crop of regulators:
oblivious IG testifies
Add to this the PBS Frontline on Bernie Madoff and the idiots at the SEC...
Late but necessary. MeToo. I have his book; I watched him on CNBC - a gentleman and a scholar is how I characterized him.
-K
I've had a lot of respect for Mr. Seidman since his role with the RTC. I've been scratching my head over the fact he was a long-time member of the boards of directors of CapMark (formeraly GMAC Commercial Mortgage) and GMAC Bank.