It's good that Obama can listen to so many bright people. That way he can take the worst ideas from each and piece them together into a complete and utter disaster. Snatching defeat from the jaws of....well, defeat.
I'm not the smartest fellow in the world, but I can sure pick smart colleagues.....FDR.......
I'm kinda hoping O is picking the best brains in the US, only history will tell.
"If a large fraction of existing SFH sales are foreclosure transactions, then is anyone
earning the 3-6% sales commission on these?"
Lenders generally strike deals with realtors on these sales, so there is some commission paid, but not always the full boat since they get a bulk rate.
Krugman and Stiglitz are big babies. Obama chose Geithner, Bernanke and Sommers. They should be obedient and happy just to have dinner with his majesty Obama.
It too late, second order effects are propagating. Home-sourcing is in high gear, along with blocking labor mobility in Germany and France. The EU is picking trade fights it won't win. Resource-countries are wary of sovereign Asian investment. The USA Buy American provisions were never removed. Lula in Brazil would probably invade Bolivia and blame it on Americans before he reads a book. Central Asia is more likely to collapse because SCO was never prepared to own them.
There will not be a united approach to resolve the economy. For our own good, we must disperse. The closest we have had to a united approach was to maintain the status quo, which is no solution at all. It's a natural feature for how humans organize into groups.
I get the feeling they were sorry they went to the White House ...
They are not exactly advertising the fact ...
Could be BHO asked them what they would do in his place... then played devils advocate in reverse. They probably didn't have a good answer outside their own sound bytes. There is NO easy painless way out & the wrong move blows up politically & socially - it isn't a Monopoly game back at the frat house.
It is all part of the super secret plan --- It only looks like he is owned by the bankers.
See he does listen to critics --- before doing what his masters tell him to.
I miss JoeShmoe
Obama is sure getting a lot of flak from people who would usually be seen as his supporters.... But then the left never was homogenous - more like a coalition of groups - a gang of thieves who will happily stab each other for a bigger share of the loot...
On the night of April 27, for instance, the president invited to the White House some of his administration's sharpest critics on the economy, including New York Times columnist Paul Krugman and Columbia University economist Joseph Stiglitz.
If Leader O thinks these are his harshest critics problem is structural, not personal.
And come on. Let's be honest. Both Krugman and Stiglitz are merely critical of magnitude, not direction.
MaryAnn
I think that is projecting one's hopes too much onto Obama. Hiring the RIAA and MPAA to run the justice department, Janet Napolitano as head of Homeland Security, and much more than just the failures of intent and failures of execution concerning the financial sector.
He ran a great campaign, but will not be able to meet the challenges ahead. Part of that is that some are challenges that cannot be won, but part of that is raising $745 million in a presidential campaign
"a gang of thieves who will happily stab each other for a bigger share of the loot... "
Or, I suppose, idealists who will not form a coalition with wingnuts just to grab a bigger share of the loot.
Sorry, Obama is not a leftist, no matter what big fat idiot Limbaugh says. He is a Clinton centrist.
I can picture it how it went down....like the scene from "The Untouchables".....Obama held the baseball bat and said...You talkin' bout me?-I didn't think so...now shut your pie holes and eat your dinner....Then....GET OUT
Yogi have you read Obama's books? He and Hillary are both products of the Alinsky school... O's just projecting a centrist image - the re-election campaign started the same day as the last election ....
mmckinl (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 1:20 pm reply Ignore user
Obama represents the banksters, pure and simple ...
And if enough realized that and acted upon it back in november we'd see screaming and finger pointing by the liberal media over McCain's near trillion dollar 2009-10 deficit.
And if enough realized that and acted upon it back in november we'd see screaming and finger pointing by the liberal media over McCain's near trillion dollar 2009-10 deficit.
Exactly.
The situation dictates the response - ideology provides the explanation of justification.
"as far as bailout/financial sector policy, it is hard to imagine the others doing much worse"
I agree it is hard to imagine, but they would have found a way.
Obama and Geithner are continuing the Paulson policies, but at least they seem to be trying to keep a record of where the money went.
I am actually more depressed about Congress than Obama. Even though the complete failure of democratic congressional leadership was predictable based on 2006-08.
It is also wrong to assume other presidential candidates would have succeeded where Obama has failed, especially when all indications were the outcome would have been even worse. Could you imagine Art Laffer in place of Larry Summers, to give a single example
If there were no desirable candidates, then the problem is not the candidates themselves but the manner in which the system chooses the candidates.
mock turtle (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 1:27 pm reply Ignore user
besides if obama invited limbaugh there wouldnt have been any mashed potatoes left for anybody else
But if he had invited CR we'd be enjoying the John Muir Trail and Bakerdome National Park by now.
I haven't seen any comments from Stiglitz or on Krugman's blog - maybe the food wasn't very good.
The President of the Republic is entitled to receive confidential advice.
Critic though I might be, he'd get total silence and my unvarnished opinions at least the first time.
'Course, I don't get asked to no fancy dinners, but there's no denying the fact that the Man Facing South can lay it on as thick as he wants any little time he wants in the Forbidden City. That's what the whole apparatus is there for.
EvilHenryPaulson (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 1:30 pm reply Ignore user
It is also wrong to assume other presidential candidates would have succeeded where Obama has failed
Certainly at least half of O's problems were inevitable/unavoidable but if you think Romney wouldn't have bankster heads on poles out on the south lawn by now you are mistaken.
just so we understand each other..i agree that obama has placed taxpayers on the hook to the banking oligarchy and that there have been violations of banking law imho under his administration and the pigs feed at the trough
i am sick over this
i am also well aware of the corruption of the bush 2 , clinton, bush 1 and reagan administrations and we could go back even before that
i have children....the future matters..im just heart sick over all this
and i dont grant obama a pass just cause i am a dem, ok?
Rob Dawg,
I cannot speak for Romney, I only pay attention enough to American politics to see what the likely outcomes are. It would be interesting to see a self-funded candidate make it though, even if it weren't enough to break out of the old pattern
Seriously, why would you expect that from Romney? He's a very opportunistic politician, so maybe I just have no idea what to expect from him, but nothing about him suggests banker-killer to me. I think of him as pretty slick in the pejorative sense, kind of like Obama actually.
Please ... We all know the direction Obama has taken shovels hundreds of billions if not trillions into
bankster pockets ...
At the very least the top management should have been fired ...
Now they are getting outrageous bonuses again while screwing the public on cramdowns and credit card reform.
Ever heard of the 'Sampson Strategy'? That is where the banks have us right now... Meanwhile [different analogy] BO is trying to walk the elephant backwards - same as McCain would have done... that isn't going to be painless, fast or ideal.
But they can't do a reboot and not have the system come to a complete halt - the economy won't survive that. So they continue to try and walk the beast backward instead of face the prospect of a dead restart.
They can always revisit the 'reboot later'... if conditions deteriorate... but once they go reboot there is no going back. You don't unscramble the egg.
I think that was what was explained to PK & JS and then said what would YOU do. They probably said continue trying to walk the elephant backwards - for now.
If there were no desirable candidates, then the problem is not the candidates themselves but the manner in which the system chooses the candidates.- EHP
Or the system is so effed, quality people don't want to go into office. Even O knows this, but what can he do but try to make gov't "cool" again? The country has been split into 50-50 nation for so long that nobody has any respect for anyone else's opinion anymore. So you can't put together the coalitions and compromises that get things done. I don't even want to get involved in my local Democratic committee-- all they do is argue with each other and make snark on the local political blogs. There's nothing happening on a practical level.
As the campaign progressed I was surprised that:
Giuliani dropped out so fast
McCain trumped Romney
Biden was the vp choice
I think we would have been best off with Romney - and it would be better to have a Repub president if the Demos have the congress - gridlock is about the best we can expect out of DC - whenever one party has all the levers it is a disaster - well maybe just a worse disaster than the lesser disaster of gridlock...
Nevertheless - Everything was in a huge mess from the credit bubble, nobody could stop it, the choice was to drag it out or get it over quickly - so now we are dragging it out because BB says the system will fail otherwise... I'm not sure what 'fail' would really mean - anarchy?
Well we got what we got, and now we are going to get the consequences.
and once the elephant is back to the right fork in the road...hoping the taxpayer recoups what is due via taxation and or securities held that have substantial market value
"At the very least the top management should have been fired ...Now they are getting outrageous bonuses again while screwing the public on cramdowns and credit card reform. "
Obama chose not to do that and it tells a lot about him... Faustian deal in action, "we will give you the presidency and you shut the hell up about Wall Street crimes and leave us alone".
and i dont grant obama a pass just cause i am a dem, ok? You get my respect award for that Mock...
Really amazing that anyone wants the DC jobs considering the mess, the hassle, and the lack of anonymity... I held some political positions for a while - everyone hates you eventually...
Romney is a real businessperson not some play at it multigenerational pretender. There's no way he'd have fallen for the AIG domino theory of CDS. He'd have seen through that in a New York minute. His politics are earnest not opportunistic. And he certainly wouldn't have named a bunch of second stringers to high office.
OT: The interesting thing with looking at interest rate spreads in judging the economy, is that the a narrower spread is not always a good thing. Look at the spread between fixed rate mortgages and long term Treasuries. Its now closing up, but mainly because long term rates are rising. Is this a good thing? No necessarily if its because government supply of debt is swamping possible buyers.
If Obama lets some banks fail he would be a Hero to the American public. At first I could see Obama did not agree with the Geitner and the banker's, then the next week he completely backed down. The pressure behind the scenes must be huge keeping him from making the right decisions.
After graduation, Romney remained in Massachusetts and went to work for the Boston Consulting Group, where he had interned during the summer of 1974.[10] From 1978 to 1984, Romney was a vice president of Bain & Company, Inc., another management consulting firm based in Boston. In 1984, Romney left Bain & Company to co-found a spin-off private equity investment firm, Bain Capital.[11] During the 14 years he headed the company, Bain Capital's average annual internal rate of return on realized investments was 113 percent,[12] making money primarily through leveraged buyouts.[13] He invested in or bought many well-known companies such as Staples, Brookstone, Domino's, Sealy Corporation and Sports Authority.[14]
In 1990, Romney was asked to return to Bain & Company, which was facing financial collapse. As CEO, Romney managed an effort to restructure the firm's employee stock-ownership plan, real-estate deals and bank loans, while increasing fiscal transparency. Within a year, he had led Bain & Company through a highly successful turnaround and returned the firm to profitability without layoffs or partner defections.[12]
Romney left Bain Capital in 1998 to head the 2002 Salt Lake City Olympic Games Organizing Committee.[15] He and his wife have a net worth of between 250 and 500 million USD,[16][17] not including Romney's blind trust in the name of their children, which is valued at about $100 million.[18]
Rob Dawg,
AIG and the US Government were officially joined at the hip in September, pre-election. As for his would-be power base, I do not know if they would have wanted to continue the AIG ownership and what ramifications may have been after going from full support to cut loose.
and once the elephant is back to the right fork in the road...hoping the taxpayer recoups what is due via taxation and or securities held that have substantial market value
I am certain they haven't even thought that far ahead - right now it is get the damned thing back away from the ledge... worry about what to do with it later.
I mean remember when TG was slow getting the 'plan' out? Took an extra month and people had coronaries over the delay? Same with the stress testing? Right now they have to focus on just keeping the damned beast moving back - or at least NOT bolting forward again. They are just hoping there IS another 'better' fork back there somewhere.
Outsider (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 1:37 pm reply Ignore user
I've seen enough informed opinions floating around here to consider a CR Symposium at the White House.
Now that would be fun. Depending on the menu, I'd consider going.
Boiled dawg on a bed of fresh t-notes sprinkled with $150 oil and vinegar dressing.
"Romney is a real businessperson not some play at it multigenerational pretender. There's no way he'd have fallen for the AIG domino theory of CDS. He'd have seen through that in a New York minute. His politics are earnest not opportunistic. And he certainly wouldn't have named a bunch of second stringers to high office."
~~~~
In your opinion ... not in fact ...
If you are correct he wouldn't be elected ... TPTB would have made sure of that ...
My position is that there are 3 major parties in America ...
Democratic, Republican and Corporate ...
That's pretty close, but acutally there's only one party - the Corporate party. You can have a republican flavor or a democrat flavor, but it all comes in the same cone.
White house dinners - Here I got the impression that Barry and Michele were more the champagne and lobster type - roast beef? Outsourced to Arby's? No wonder the 2 guests dont want to talk about it...
ShadowInventory (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 1:49 pm
Hey Rob Dawg when is that Calif. election on the taxes?
Tuesday May 19th, 20:00 PDT and the results from both polling and early voting show 1A-1E defeated with a long shot for 1C possible. It's so over even the firefighters and teachers unions are cutting back on their agitprop campaigns.
Mc Cain was another Bob Dole. Republicans new The Democrats had a good chance with the coming economy dump and the unpopular war. Mc Cain was sacrificed and Romney put on hold for the next election. Romney having his own money was a rub with the party. Some deal was cut and he backed down. If America is lucky OB will be a one term President and we can get to work with real brains and leadership. The real Hope now.
There is no reason that the top management not be fired ...
Leaving them in place will only guarantee more trouble in
" walking the elephant backwards" ...
Some of the top mgmt has been removed if I recall - AIG in total - Ken Lewis at BOA? Even in a hostile take over you don't sack the executives UNTIL (1) you have ownership FOR SURE (2) you have replacements ready. Hell they haven't even replaced ALL the Bushies in the executive branch yet... and they are going to run the banks? Huh?
They can't fire ANYONE until they actually OWN them [like AIG]... and they don't want to do that until they have the people in place to run them. Anything else is a 'cold dead restart'.
Everyone - myself included - has 'easy fast answers'... the reality is the execution is/will be a bitch.
sportsfan,
I agree completely. In truth I am apathetic about the current political structure, not because I am uninformed or uninterested but because I think it will have to change and that I will comparatively find much more interesting
By and large, private equity is a big sham. Glorified house flipping.
Basically, wall street types that know didley squat about an industry let alone running an actual business buy out corporate insiders with leverage. They then re-arrange the deck chairs and make the company "appear" more valuable. Often, the changes implemented are designed to make the earnings look better in the short term but at a cost to the long run viability and profitabilit of the company. Overfunded pensions are suddenly paid out as "dividends" to the PE firm. Then the PE asset strippers dump the shares back in the public markets during a "reflation" or boom. PE was the original 2&20 deal.
Romney had a knack for this type of tomfoolery. Apparently, Dan Quayle did for a while too.
Veratect posted a second swine flu fatality in Texas: US, Texas: Department of Health reports second fatal case of influenza A (H1N1) in a Cameron County resident.
Looking for the actual story now to confirm....wait Foxnews is running it. now...
Much as I would like to see conservative govt, I dont think it will happen until the electorate gets better educated in economics and psychology... it's so easy to fool them - all you have to do is promise them some benefit and they will elect you, then you can rip them off as much as you want via taxes and borrowing, and they never wise up.... and of course, they stay poor while waiting for the next benefit promise...
Romney lost. He didn't get enough early votes for street cred and didn't do half what he should have in California. Packaging? Marketing? Lack of ground troops? A little of each. That said we may indeed get to test a Romney Presidency far sooner than many envision.
Angry Saver,
You simply highlight the one extreme of PE. There is nothing wrong with PE. Consider the listed undesirable aspects of PE to be a symptom of a credit bubble environment.
Outsider (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 4:37 pm
I've seen enough informed opinions floating around here to consider a CR Symposium at the White House.
You speak directly to power here. Maximum two removes from the throne, reading your every post. Come on, like one of the regular readers / posters isn't a Fed governor or some shit. Why bother going to them, they are sitting at your doorstep taking notes.
Now that would be fun. Depending on the menu, I'd consider going.
I obvious am at the Executive's disposal for all reasonable requests, but I would want to skip the dinner. That is a photo op. I can mooch dinner off any number of people, and Barry won't smoke me out after dinner.
Obama, you listening?
If you're not comfortable with being threaded into a linguistic forensic device and made to be one of the voices of a consensus that's enslaved to solve the economic problems of some late-21st century nation, stop posting.
O had never done anything to prepare for what has happened in the US, yet neither had McCain........So we were fu###ed either way. Talk about a piss poor choice to choose from, and we are not stupid, we wanted a rock star and we got one.....So shoot me.
I think there is plenty of evidence that ANY attempts to manage any economy produces a worse result than the free market. Try reading some of Tom Sowell's works... For those who never heard of him... Thomas Sowell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sowell has written extensively about historical attempts to manage economies all over the world, and the outcomes and impacts on the populations...
My advice to Obama would be to start planning for what is virtually inevitable: a suspension of the Constitution, returning home of troops, martial law, and a new currency.
We here like to speculate on a better approach to the insolvency of the government and financial system and the Potemkin economy. And indeed there is an approach that is more faithful to US laws and principles. But it would precipitate a rapid collapse of everything, IMO.
So Obama's policy is to fake the health of the status quo as long as possible.
Honestly, I have to think the planning for this coming stage (the end of the republic) is underway already.
The administration probably isn't as stupid as it acts.
EvilHenryPaulson (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 2:03 pm
Rob Dawg, Sooner than many envision?
Wouldn't his chance at presidency be in 3.5 years, or never?
The Dems are acting like they've got 8 solid years.
ShadowInventory (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 2:07 pm reply Ignore user
Elvis - white house squirrel - Dont tempt me like that... I would probably have a 1000 snappy lines that would provoke mayhem here...
But served with a side of veggies from the south lawn garden?
I thought maybe the true conservatives would abandon the Republican name and start a new party. There actually is a fringe party called the American Conservative party whose platform mostly reads conservative, but I dont know if they are a bunch of wacknuts... One thing is they have a plank calling for tariffs to protect american jobs - guess they havent read about GD1
But they can't do a reboot and not have the system come to a complete halt - the economy won't survive that. So they continue to try and walk the beast backward instead of face the prospect of a dead restart. They can always revisit the 'reboot later'... if conditions deteriorate... but once they go reboot there is no going back. You don't unscramble the egg.
The reboot will happen when all else fails, or is in the process of obviously failing. The only thing I believe about Obama is that he's smart enough to see it when the time comes, and canny enough to change course abruptly and start making Wall Street the scapegoat it deserves to be.
I'm giving him nine more months, then giving up. Things should be more than bad enough by then for the majority of the American people, even if the economy's shrinking process has slowed markedly.
From the GOP perspective regarding Romney the positives would have been:
1. Elected Gov of a heavily Dem state and performed reasonably well
2. Management of Olympics gave him cred for running an organization with a national profile
The con side would be the private equity connection as the PE/LBO people are joined at the hip with the banksters generally.
I actually wrote him in on my ballot rather than choose BHO or McDumb. I know, that doesn't count since he wasn't running, but it was a form of protest.
My advice to Obama would be to start planning for what is virtually inevitable: a suspension of the Constitution, returning home of troops, martial law, and a new currency.
unirealist (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 5:03 pm
My advice to Obama would be to start planning for what is virtually inevitable: a suspension of the Constitution
I think the possibility of a Constitutional Convention where we decide to have "a new Constituion" is so ludicrously unlikely as to not be worth consideration.
I think I would take any other monkeying with the Charter of the Republic -- by say, Executive fiat -- as being one of those "Second Amendment moments," right up there with "canceled elections for national security reasons". I don't feel remotely alone in this sentiment.
Very few governments are re-elected during a poor economy. It's a crude survival mechanism applied to politics, and trumps all other special interests. Probably too early to speculate when we have some major historical events coming down the pike, and the mid-term Congressional elections haven't happened
Nah. This is 'no drama Obama.' You won't see a lot of radical drastic action that would alarm the markets and the sheeple. The major goal here is to calm everythng down, maintain order, and hope like hell we can grow our way out of it. And as far as I can determine, that's the general consensus-- only the politicos and econ bloggers seem to be advocating radical action, and they have no real power. So the PTB will have little effective opposition as they attempt to turn this around.
You know, on second thought, I agree that the whole "dinner with the dissenters" idea was bogus.
If Obama and his crowd really wanted to stress test their approach to the financial crisis, they would have cleared a Saturday, booked a room and staged an economics tag-team wrestling match between the dissenting crowd and the gov't finance guys and their gurus. With Paul Volcker as free-floating agent of chaos. The dissenters could bring their computers, references, and top grad students. All generalizations and faulty premises by both sides to be mercilessly dissected.
Of course, Obama might not have been able to stay awake through the whole thing...
Goldman Sachs Group Inc. said U.S. bank debt is “attractive” and boosted its rating on Bank of America Corp. and Capital One Financial Corp. debt to “outperform.”
I doubt Jeb Bush would run. No disrespect to him but I think the country is Bushed out. The Republican party has a lot to prove to many like me ( I no longer am a Republican) looking for a real fiscal conservative party. If they run Romney properly I am in at this point.
The Republicans have demonstrated a remarkable lack of knowledge of how to campaign and get elected. Now back in Nixon's time they knew how to do the dirty tricks, but they seem to want to take the high road and dont hammer their opponents enough. McCain said nothing about Obamas drug use/dealing... or about his parentage smoke screen... or his ties to admitted terrorists... those issues should have been front and center but were completely neglected.... perhaps they were being extra cautious because of the race issue but that will probably not come up again now that Obama has been elected... Anyway, it doesnt matter if the majority of the voters will keep voting for a free lunch instead of liberty and a more stable currency... No matter who is in office, the economy is unmanageable - it can only be interferred with...
At 65, I too am seeing what unirealist is implying that is/might be our destiny. Never ever another Bush, pop and Barb can cry all they want to.
Martial Law will be the first to come, and if I was a reporter, the sign company that has the contract would be where I would be snooping now.
I
An interesting angle of attack by what's left of the Neo-Know-Nothings, is a peculiar emphasis on the idea that Obama isn't smart and has no attention span for details.
no one is gonna let the banks fail. it's simply not a political solution. And it's not accurate that trillions of dollars are going to the bankers pockets; it's going to the creditor's pockets, with the bankers taking a hefty premium. As we're finding out from the Chrysler BK proceedings, it's difficult to distinguish between hedge funds for pension funds and endowments and hedge funds for the high net worth individuals. Yes, it's an abomination that individuals are making hundreds of millions of dollars by jeopardizing the health of the entire system, but it's not the role of Fed or the TARP to police that, especially not through capitalization measures.
The proper way to fix those problems is through the criminal statutes (e.g. Cuomo's crackdown on pay to play) or the tax codes (e.g. jack the marginal rate for individuals making over X dollars).
If another Republican or 2 switches sides in the Senate, the leftover white elephants might as well be lawn furniture. - AMF
It doesn't matter, they're demoralized. And they can't seem to field a team the country likes. A party composed of old white men just doesn't cut it anymore. And speaking as a Democrat, that's not good-- you have to have healthy, viable opposition. But you also have to have moderates in both parties who can actually get something done, rather than just rant and scream at each other. And I don't see that happening for some years, because the PACs are still feeding the nutcase types in the House and Senate. There's no longer the political reward system for being a good horse trader.
If the Repubs were truly a fiscally conservative party, the past 8 years would have been different.
They have utterly proved to me that they are unworthy to govern.
A new party is needed. I am still registered Repub, 'cause I just couldn't bear to be a Democrat;
my ancestors would haunt me. But I would love to join a centrist party with the Limbaughs and Fundies left behind.
Rob Dawg (homepage, profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 1:33 pm
Certainly at least half of O's problems were inevitable/unavoidable but if you think Romney wouldn't have bankster heads on poles out on the south lawn by now you are mistaken.
I actually find it quite amazing that Romney has barely been heard from during all this, only rising from below the surface last week.
I can't see much upside for Romney for public comment/appearances given the economic situation that private equity types in general have to take some responsibility for.
Basel Too, too true. The solution, effective or not, to every crisis is wasteful and inefficient pretty much by definition. Creating the environment that will TEND to reward those that are good and punish those that aren't is all we can hope for; but it will be enough I think. Our intuition for size is flawed. This whole issue is big in every direction and not susceptible to quick, simple, or simplistic repair.
i have children....the future matters..im just heart sick over all this
I have nephews. When they're old enough to understand what's been done to them, I pray that they they will cut me a little slack.
Everyone over 50 should have spent the last 30 years demanding a balanced budget and some sort of sane energy policy - and made those demands stick, instead of continuously accept the schlock-mongers that we kept getting.
Andrew Leonard and Calculated Risk want to know why I didn’t blog about dinner at the White House. Um, because the conversation was off the record.
It is IMO a very good news that (a) Obama knows that some reputable economists are strongly critical of his economic policies and (b) he actually makes an effort to understand their arguments
re: Andrew Lo & Adaptive Market Hypothesis, FT.com / Short View
Not that I disagree, but it's just a gauche re-interpretation of Minsky's financial instability or Fisher's Debt Deflation or Hayek's Credit Bubble.
You would think after so many sequels we could learn from our mistakes as a group
"scone, that's a big part of the problem in Congress. You're just not idealogically pure enough if you're willing to talk to the other side."
The Dems as currently constituted are the least ideologically pure party I've ever seen.
It's not about ideologies, at least not these days. It's about brands and franchises -- in politics as in business. Maybe more so. Think Coke and Pepsi instead of Dems and Repubs, and you'll figure out why they "don't listen to each other." Why should they?
The Fundies have suffered several blows-- loss of the election, loss of membership money, humiliation of Palin, and most importantly, total failure of the Millenarian predictions that were fueling 10 - 20 % tithing. And the Dominionist movement seems to be going nowhere. In my area, they seem to be having trouble recruiting to their private schools, because of tuition costs, I suppose. But it will be a slow fade to black, the more they get pushed back the more radical they get, like "When Prophesy Fails."
If there is one thing Obama does well, it's campaign... and the campaign is on, has been since election day...
He doesnt do so well without the teleprompter though - and maybe the time will come when the voters will take a look at actions, not image - ah nah, never happen - since the Kennedy Nixon debate it's been a tv presidency...
Cutting the ties to the static McCarthyism on the radio is piece of cake, but keeping the voters and losing the dogma is going to be difficult amongst those of faith.
BTW - If I had to bet on the reason BHO summoned the 2 vocal critics to the WH it would be to calmly demand they CEASE & DESIST OR FACE TORTURE. Along the lines of the hedgies that refused to take their medicine with Chrysler.
The more claims of "Change" are made, the less likely that outcome becomes.
"He doesnt do so well without the teleprompter though - and maybe the time will come when the voters will take a look at actions, not image - ah nah, never happen - since the Kennedy Nixon debate it's been a tv presidency..."
No, he doesn't. Better than the last guy, though. And the voters never even took a look at his actions.
Romney's "exceptional talent" was in repositioning himself from being to the left of Ted Kennedy to being the claimed standard-bearer of the social conservatives. Such utter lack of any position drawn from inner conviction was typically a real winner before YouTube was available to help refresh our memories.
bobn (homepage, profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 2:28 pm reply Ignore user
i have children....the future matters..im just heart sick over all this
I have nephews. When they're old enough to understand what's been done to them, I pray that they they will cut me a little slack.
Everyone over 50 should have spent the last 30 years demanding a balanced budget and some sort of sane energy policy - and made those demands stick, instead of continuously accept the schlock-mongers that we kept getting.
I voted for Diane Feinstein the first time solely because of her pledge to support a balanced budget amendment. Her first act in office was to repudiate that pledge.
"Everyone over 50 should have spent the last 30 years demanding a balanced budget and some sort of sane energy policy - and made those demands stick, instead of continuously accept the schlock-mongers that we kept getting."
~~~~
Reaganomics ... The Gipper done gipped us ... traded an actual production economy for
But they also can't field any ideas that the country might like...their new initiative has Cantor, Romney and Jeb Bush as frontmen...truly, they have got to be freaking kidding themselves.
At the moment, people are talking about a new 2 party system, with the Blue Dogs and their friends splitting off to become the new conservatives. If that happened, American politics could become more predictably right-left, like Europe. Which would be boring, since our parties have always been more complex than that: city/country, big gov't/small gov't, internationists/isolationists, etc.
I don't think McCain would have invitied dissenters for dinner to hear their opinions, on or off the record. Bush never did. I give Obama high marks for effort on this one. I just hope he realizes he made some poor choices for top economic advisers and elevates Volcker.
What torture? Rice has been stoutly claiming that waterboarding is not torture, and that if the president said it was ok, it was ok, and did not violate the constitution or any pesky international agreements. Since this has been cleared up by the republicans, I ask you again, what torture?
the more they get pushed back the more radical they get
Let them. After what they did to this country? The Republic will never be safe from their salafist fantasies until we have an enforced doctrine of laicite.
I think they should make many irrational attempts to seize power, all the better to compel people to acknowledge what a profound threat out home-grown Taliban poses to our way of life as a post-medieval culture.
the president invited to the White House some of his administration's sharpest critics on the economy ...
Can we please stop with this meme? This is a ridiculous assertion. And basing any conclusions on it (such as "it's good news that Obama is actually listening to his sharpest critics") is a fool's errand.
If Obama wanted real dialogue at the meeting, he'd have invited Ed Crane from Cato, or Ron Paul, in place of one of the Punch-and-Judy duo.
Rob Dawg said it best: suggesting the gub'mint throw $4T at the problem does not make you a "sharp critic" of someone only willing to spend $2T.
@fried And yet, you never know in politics, people come out of nowhere and just completely change the game board, like Obama. I think that's one reason why O wants a calm, controlled velvet revolution. He knows better than to give the Repubs any material that could suggest the crisiis not being dealt with effectively. He won't give anybody an edge to mount an attack. Totally teflon.
"Bush enrolled at Phillips Andover, a private boarding school in Massachusetts, already attended by his brother, George. Bush made the honor roll in his first semester.
When Bush was 17, he went to León, Guanajuato, in Mexico, as part of his school's student exchange program. He spent his time there teaching English, and it was there that he met his future wife, Columba Garnica Gallo.
Bush attended the University of Texas at Austin, where he graduated Phi Beta Kappa with a Bachelor's degree in Latin American Studies in 1973, taking only two and a half years to complete his work, and obtaining generally excellent grades. He had considered a career in Hollywood, but decided instead to pursue politics. He registered for the draft, but the Vietnam War ended before his number came up."
That's actually a pretty good early resume. I think that he wouldn't be a viable candidate any time soon due to just the family connection and his involvement with real estate enterprises in Florida. The "fundies" might have a problem with him as apparently he converted to Catholicism. If he's patient and waits til 2016 he might have a shot.
you unwillingness (and Rob Dawg too) to recognize the significant differences between krugman and obama makes no sense
are you saying that unless obama invites his most extreme critics to meet (btw i like and respect ron paul) he gets no credit for listening to diverse opinions
come on...i do hope you have been equally critical of conservatives who have no time to sit down with a liberal ok
obama has crossed the road and listened to his detractors
They're a breakaway sect, like Papa Johns.
.
Actually, they're my neighbors. The guy next to me put his kid into the local 'recruiting soldiers for Jesus' school and bought him a fake Army uniform with a big cross on the front. The kid practices killing (n-word) and (defamatory word for Arabs)... they are seriously into this shit.
You know, the Dismal Science is an acquired taste, like willingly learning Latvian, I suppose.
Obama strikes me as a quick study, combined with the wherewithal upstairs to take in the big picture. He's really had to learn economics on the fly, and I think he'll get it, if he hasn't got it already.
So Rob Dawg, you were clearly a supporter of Jerry Brown for President? His major plank was a balanced budget... he actually was a serious contender for a while, even in the Democratic party with such a stand!
My, my, how things have changed. Now, both Dems and Reps are embarrassed by the mention of a "BB"... (no, not Ben...)
Ummm, is a call to child protective services in order? - LL
No can do, some of the "official" locals are rad fundies too. it reminds me of Memphis in the 50's, when I was a kid. The Klan controlled everything, from city hall to the judges to the local cops, they were the Klan. It's not that bad here, and there's plenty of garden variety corruption as well, but the fundy element is sort of concentrating out here.
scone,
That is just scary. We have some nut trying to start his own church a few streets down. He ambushed my wife and two kids on the way to the playground a few weeks ago spouting crap about the purity of children, that a good women keeps her eyes down and respects her husband and elders, and oh by the way I am having church at my house on Tuesday nights. Actually grabbed my wife by the arm and wouldn't let her pass. When I found out I tracked this nut down and told him to stay away from my family. Crazy thing is that he has people coming over for service. Couldn't believe it.
mt [he gets no credit for listening to diverse opinions]
c'mon, the made-for-tv-President ? He either called them in to silence them since they have the ear of many "progressives" (he couldn't give a rat's ass about what conservatives think) or he did it as a ruse to string the dupes along a little further...
Crazy thing is that he has people coming over for service. Couldn't believe it. - Vonbek 77
I'm a Southerner, and I've seen a lot of revival stuff, which doesn't freak me out particularly, but back in the day, uber-radical fundy weirdness used to be a much smaller piece of the religious picture. Mostly little nut-case congregations in the deep woods, snake handlers and such. Now it's larger, it seems to me-- people who have been thrown out of the larger evangelical movement, and have sort of festered. Either that or the North West, where I live now, is a magnet for nut cases of all stripes, right and left.
Politically, the only way Glass-Steagall comes back is if the entire G20 follows. As much many politicians talk about breaking up the banks, they will not do so if it means putting the US at a competitive disadvantage.
Personally, I'm not sure what advantage there actually was. And interestingly, the "bank" that everyone loves to hate, Goldman, would hardly be affected with a re-instituted Glass-Steagall.
Does this mean we are starting the next election process already? Two years where enough to wear one out. Maybe it is going to be a new record of three years.
Oh, please. I'm hoping that primaries are stretched out again and they start much later.
I can't stand it. Of course the tv people will really need the ad revenue by that time.
What about bringing back the Glass-Steagall Act?
Politically, the only way Glass-Steagall comes back is if the entire G20 follows. As much many politicians talk about breaking up the banks, they will not do so if it means putting the US at a competitive disadvantage.
Personally, I'm not sure what advantage there actually was.
~~~~
Worked for decades ...
The banksters just want to play with deposits insured by US.
Angry Saver,
You simply highlight the one extreme of PE. There is nothing wrong with PE. Consider the listed undesirable aspects of PE to be a symptom of a credit bubble environment.
EHP,
The vast majority of PE is an inflation (central bank) trade. Zero added value. It is a vehicle to capture inflation and capitalize on credit stupidity and interest rates changes. The industry basically didn't even exist under the gold standard as debts were expected to be repaid.
Now that debts are never expected to be repaid only rolled over or dumped on the government, PE is one of our most profitable industries.
PE is a sham within a sham. That's why wall street loves it.
I would note that in the interview in the NYT Mag this Sunday O did say that he reads Stiglitz's stuff "all the time", probably over stating it, but my guess is that he at leat reads PK's column regularly. Still would rather have Bob Reich playing Bob Reich than Larry Summers doing it as O said he was in the interview.
bearly (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 4:59 pm reply Ignore user How many speeches wll get loaded in the teleprompter for thurs night ?
Bearly, Obama takes a much greater role in writing what goes on the teleprompter than most do. He can actually write well, unlike W who probably could not compose a gramatically correct sentence of more than 5 words.
He can actually write well, unlike W who probably could not compose a gramatically correct sentence of more than 5 words.
Yes, it's such a relief finally to have an articulate man telling us we must
--spend another $90B on failed imperial wars
--blow trillions up the ass of Wall Street
--joyfully await the resumption of shop-till-u-drop and borrow-like-there's-no-tomorrow.
Oh, how ghastly would it be living under the exact same policies if it were Bush articulating them. Pure hell.
re: the comment that GOP ended primary's so early. ordained.
I was the campaign manager in a small college town in the south in1994 when a young 25 year old grad student asked me/told me he wanted to get in to politics in this town..... i told him run as a republican..... no one had run as a republican since reconstruction. But we had 12 dems in the primary every election.
Well he did and i ran his campaign. Against a very liberal female incumbent that the college kids adored..
the olypics were coming and our city (my hometown) were hosting some of the games and we were going to be front and center in the world limelight. well we gained momentum and people eventually started taking us seriously. long story short, out of 90000 votes cast we lost by 700 or 351 votes.
I did not request any kind of recount ...was the happiest day of my life. I always wondered what would happen if we had won. Neither of us probably really wanted to win in light of what could go wrong. We put up a good front of wanting to ride a wave to DC....
Point is, maybe some on the hill or that ran for pres know /knew how bad it could be and that 12 trillion was 12 trillion. And that is why we didnt see much of a fight from McCain....
its my humble opinion someone other than us could see this as well, and they played the game and went through the motions...
Or maybe they have gotten back in line.
krugman to prez
thats mighty tasty vittles
prez to krugman
shut up and youre more likely to keep eatin
Nemo, that seems unlikely to me!
best wishes
It's good that Obama can listen to so many bright people. That way he can take the worst ideas from each and piece them together into a complete and utter disaster. Snatching defeat from the jaws of....well, defeat.
Were they meeting with Obama in his role as President, or in his more powerful role as chief bottle washer for all the Wall Street TARP banks?
Fare du jour:
Flambeed Financials
Deep-Sea Debt Flounder
Free-Range Economics
Buying Brand Obama by Chris Hedges
Buying Brand Obama by Chris Hedges « Dandelion Salad
~~~~
Really worth a read ...
Q: Why did Krugman get the flu?
A: He spent too much time at the trough!
Ho!
always keep your enemies in front of you...
This type of openness is why I still like and respect Obama.
This was a great move on his part.
ok all kiddin aside
its a good thing that prez obama is listening to his critics esp krugman and stiglitz
i dont think bho is twisting the arms of nobel laureates
the silence may be a result of a deal, i dont know
(hey boys give me x period of time to try and sort this out the geithner-bernanke way and failing that i will change course???)
Obama is all PR ... Brand Obama
Now he gets to say he listened to Krugman and Stiglitz ...
I get the feeling they were sorry they went to the White House ...
They are not exactly advertising the fact ...
the silence may be a result of a deal, i dont know
Spitzer wasn't there was he?
I'm not the smartest fellow in the world, but I can sure pick smart colleagues.....FDR.......
I'm kinda hoping O is picking the best brains in the US, only history will tell.
"maybe the food wasn't very good. "
I hope not. Given what those two prize wining morons are pushing, bad food is too good for them.
Obamachev does present a new openness, Perestroika the thought.
"If a large fraction of existing SFH sales are foreclosure transactions, then is anyone
earning the 3-6% sales commission on these?"
Lenders generally strike deals with realtors on these sales, so there is some commission paid, but not always the full boat since they get a bulk rate.
Krugman and Stiglitz are big babies. Obama chose Geithner, Bernanke and Sommers. They should be obedient and happy just to have dinner with his majesty Obama.
More conspiracy theories espousing a secret plot to enforce the law. Dopes is right!
It too late, second order effects are propagating. Home-sourcing is in high gear, along with blocking labor mobility in Germany and France. The EU is picking trade fights it won't win. Resource-countries are wary of sovereign Asian investment. The USA Buy American provisions were never removed. Lula in Brazil would probably invade Bolivia and blame it on Americans before he reads a book. Central Asia is more likely to collapse because SCO was never prepared to own them.
There will not be a united approach to resolve the economy. For our own good, we must disperse. The closest we have had to a united approach was to maintain the status quo, which is no solution at all. It's a natural feature for how humans organize into groups.
W. was going to invite Krugman, but couldn't pronounce his name.
Nixon supposedly invited Hendrix, but Jimi smelled a rat and had enough trouble fending off the Panthers.
... both Nobel Prize winners, pushed for more aggressive government intervention in the banking system.
Seems like that's exactly what we're getting - aggressive government intervention to prop up failed banks, incompetent managers, and bad assets.
Be careful what you ask for...
I get the feeling they were sorry they went to the White House ...
They are not exactly advertising the fact ...
Could be BHO asked them what they would do in his place... then played devils advocate in reverse. They probably didn't have a good answer outside their own sound bytes. There is NO easy painless way out & the wrong move blows up politically & socially - it isn't a Monopoly game back at the frat house.
Obama probably casually mentioned to each that Guantanamo wasn't still officially closed.
Either that, or both men realized that Obama was an empty suit, and have been left speechless.
"I'm kinda hoping O is picking the best brains in the US, only history will tell."
~~~
The first chapter is written ... and he has chosen the banksters over the people ...
He has chosen Torture over Truth ...
He has chosen Health Care Insurance over Medicare for All ...
He has chosen military escalation over prudent withdrawal ...
Obama is all PR ... Brand Obama
Buying Brand Obama by Chris Hedges « Dandelion Salad
It is all part of the super secret plan --- It only looks like he is owned by the bankers.
See he does listen to critics --- before doing what his masters tell him to.
I miss JoeShmoe
Nixon supposedly invited Hendrix, but Jimi smelled a rat and had enough trouble fending off the Panthers.
Grace Slick would have been a better choice.
At least people want to come to White House Dinners. I heard that many people that got invitations to W's, asked if they could get it to go.
"We have hit bottom and are on the upswing." - James J. Davis, Secretary of Labor, September 12, 1930
"We continue to expect economic activity to bottom out, then to turn up later this year. " Zimbabwe Ben, today.
Krugman is Obama's "Washington Generals."
dryfly (profile) wrote 1:07 pm
the silence may be a result of a deal, i dont know
Spitzer wasn't there was he?
sure he was...upstairs in the lincoln bedroom
Obama is sure getting a lot of flak from people who would usually be seen as his supporters.... But then the left never was homogenous - more like a coalition of groups - a gang of thieves who will happily stab each other for a bigger share of the loot...
"There is NO easy painless way out & the wrong move blows up politically & socially - it isn't a Monopoly game back at the frat house."
~~~~
Trite answer ...
The answer to the banks has been discussed here many times ...
Very few have advocated throwing more money down a rat hole ...
In the meantime the banks block cramdowns and credit card reform ...
John Fogerty singing "I ain't no Senator's son" at second-term President Clinton in the front row was a precious moment.
Disney misses, but shares rise. Why not?
Same thing with Wynn
On the night of April 27, for instance, the president invited to the White House some of his administration's sharpest critics on the economy, including New York Times columnist Paul Krugman and Columbia University economist Joseph Stiglitz.
If Leader O thinks these are his harshest critics problem is structural, not personal.
And come on. Let's be honest. Both Krugman and Stiglitz are merely critical of magnitude, not direction.
MaryAnn
I think that is projecting one's hopes too much onto Obama. Hiring the RIAA and MPAA to run the justice department, Janet Napolitano as head of Homeland Security, and much more than just the failures of intent and failures of execution concerning the financial sector.
He ran a great campaign, but will not be able to meet the challenges ahead. Part of that is that some are challenges that cannot be won, but part of that is raising $745 million in a presidential campaign
When Krugman and Stiglitz are in the government and CR is invited to dinner, I'm going long.
"Obama is sure getting a lot of flak from people who would usually be seen as his supporters.... "
~~~~
Obama represents the banksters, pure and simple ...
How much do you think Soros is getting out of all this?
"a gang of thieves who will happily stab each other for a bigger share of the loot... "
Or, I suppose, idealists who will not form a coalition with wingnuts just to grab a bigger share of the loot.
Sorry, Obama is not a leftist, no matter what big fat idiot Limbaugh says. He is a Clinton centrist.
mmckinl
i still "support" obama
and believe he was the best choice out of the 4 top contenders, romney mccain clintin and bho
butt that doesnt mean i agree with tarp and the rest of the banksta bailout
by the law these banks should be placed into receivership or pre-privatized or what ever
and i fault obama and hold him responsible for this disastrous policy
The answer to the banks has been discussed here many times ...
Discussed simplistically. Almost academic-like. Wave wand magic happens. Talk about 'trite'.
Team O would have to run any of these 'proposed' operations - be like launching Barbarossa a week before the first snow.
I can picture it how it went down....like the scene from "The Untouchables".....Obama held the baseball bat and said...You talkin' bout me?-I didn't think so...now shut your pie holes and eat your dinner....Then....GET OUT
"Both Krugman and Stiglitz are merely critical of magnitude, not direction."
~~~~
As I recall both wanted nationalization off the banks ...
Stiglitz has advocated banks as public utilities ...
This is Not Obama's Plan ... Nor the banksters ...
"Disney misses, but shares rise... Same thing with Wynn"
Come on... the bottom is in! It's all up from here! The online poll at CNN.com - Breaking News, U.S., World, Weather, Entertainment & Video News
is running 60-40 for those who believe the economy getting better! YAY!
... we're doomed...
The Washington Generals actually won a game once. Although official statistics come from the BLS.
Same Presidential Quorum Remains
SPQR
I say ditto to that Mock Turtle. Although as far as bailout/financial sector policy, it is hard to imagine the others doing much worse.
Yogi have you read Obama's books? He and Hillary are both products of the Alinsky school... O's just projecting a centrist image - the re-election campaign started the same day as the last election ....
mmckinl (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 1:20 pm reply Ignore user
Obama represents the banksters, pure and simple ...
And if enough realized that and acted upon it back in november we'd see screaming and finger pointing by the liberal media over McCain's near trillion dollar 2009-10 deficit.
Rob Dawg wrote at 1:20
If Leader O thinks these are his harshest critics problem is structural, not personal.
hey they said sharpest critics, not enemies
"Discussed simplistically. Almost academic-like. Wave wand magic happens. Talk about 'trite'."
~~~~
Please ... We all know the direction Obama has taken shovels hundreds of billions if not trillions into
bankster pockets ...
At the very least the top management should have been fired ...
Now they are getting outrageous bonuses again while screwing the public on cramdowns and credit card reform.
besides if obama invited limbaugh there wouldnt have been any mashed potatoes left for anybody else
or oxycotin
And if enough realized that and acted upon it back in november we'd see screaming and finger pointing by the liberal media over McCain's near trillion dollar 2009-10 deficit.
Exactly.
The situation dictates the response - ideology provides the explanation of justification.
"as far as bailout/financial sector policy, it is hard to imagine the others doing much worse"
I agree it is hard to imagine, but they would have found a way.
Obama and Geithner are continuing the Paulson policies, but at least they seem to be trying to keep a record of where the money went.
I am actually more depressed about Congress than Obama. Even though the complete failure of democratic congressional leadership was predictable based on 2006-08.
It is also wrong to assume other presidential candidates would have succeeded where Obama has failed, especially when all indications were the outcome would have been even worse. Could you imagine Art Laffer in place of Larry Summers, to give a single example
If there were no desirable candidates, then the problem is not the candidates themselves but the manner in which the system chooses the candidates.
mock turtle (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 1:27 pm reply Ignore user
besides if obama invited limbaugh there wouldnt have been any mashed potatoes left for anybody else
But if he had invited CR we'd be enjoying the John Muir Trail and Bakerdome National Park by now.
"we'd see screaming and finger pointing by the liberal media over McCain's near trillion dollar 2009-10 deficit."
~~~~
Get it straight ... both Repugs and Dems are part of the corporatocracy ....
Until you understand that you will always be confused ...
Rob Dawg..you and i can agree on that! (and we agree on a few other things as well )
I haven't seen any comments from Stiglitz or on Krugman's blog - maybe the food wasn't very good.
The President of the Republic is entitled to receive confidential advice.
Critic though I might be, he'd get total silence and my unvarnished opinions at least the first time.
'Course, I don't get asked to no fancy dinners, but there's no denying the fact that the Man Facing South can lay it on as thick as he wants any little time he wants in the Forbidden City. That's what the whole apparatus is there for.
As long as he's entertaining outlying views, he ought to consider sitting down with Volcker too.
EvilHenryPaulson (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 1:30 pm reply Ignore user
It is also wrong to assume other presidential candidates would have succeeded where Obama has failed
Certainly at least half of O's problems were inevitable/unavoidable but if you think Romney wouldn't have bankster heads on poles out on the south lawn by now you are mistaken.
Our politburo isn't all that far removed from those of the late Soviet Union.
Expect no change out of them, as keeping the status quo is all they know.
mmckinl
just so we understand each other..i agree that obama has placed taxpayers on the hook to the banking oligarchy and that there have been violations of banking law imho under his administration and the pigs feed at the trough
i am sick over this
i am also well aware of the corruption of the bush 2 , clinton, bush 1 and reagan administrations and we could go back even before that
i have children....the future matters..im just heart sick over all this
and i dont grant obama a pass just cause i am a dem, ok?
Rob Dawg,
I cannot speak for Romney, I only pay attention enough to American politics to see what the likely outcomes are. It would be interesting to see a self-funded candidate make it though, even if it weren't enough to break out of the old pattern
Seriously, why would you expect that from Romney? He's a very opportunistic politician, so maybe I just have no idea what to expect from him, but nothing about him suggests banker-killer to me. I think of him as pretty slick in the pejorative sense, kind of like Obama actually.
As long as he's entertaining outlying views, he ought to consider sitting down with Volcker too.
I've seen enough informed opinions floating around here to consider a CR Symposium at the White House.
Now that would be fun. Depending on the menu, I'd consider going.
Obama, you listening?
wasnt mitt romney a hedge fund manager before he was gov of that lib state back east (mass or vt?)
Please ... We all know the direction Obama has taken shovels hundreds of billions if not trillions into
bankster pockets ...
At the very least the top management should have been fired ...
Now they are getting outrageous bonuses again while screwing the public on cramdowns and credit card reform.
Ever heard of the 'Sampson Strategy'? That is where the banks have us right now... Meanwhile [different analogy] BO is trying to walk the elephant backwards - same as McCain would have done... that isn't going to be painless, fast or ideal.
But they can't do a reboot and not have the system come to a complete halt - the economy won't survive that. So they continue to try and walk the beast backward instead of face the prospect of a dead restart.
They can always revisit the 'reboot later'... if conditions deteriorate... but once they go reboot there is no going back. You don't unscramble the egg.
I think that was what was explained to PK & JS and then said what would YOU do. They probably said continue trying to walk the elephant backwards - for now.
If there were no desirable candidates, then the problem is not the candidates themselves but the manner in which the system chooses the candidates.- EHP
Or the system is so effed, quality people don't want to go into office. Even O knows this, but what can he do but try to make gov't "cool" again? The country has been split into 50-50 nation for so long that nobody has any respect for anyone else's opinion anymore. So you can't put together the coalitions and compromises that get things done. I don't even want to get involved in my local Democratic committee-- all they do is argue with each other and make snark on the local political blogs. There's nothing happening on a practical level.
He ran a very successful PE fund off his father's money and political connections. An insider's insider.
Because he's a robot, and the idea of risk free premium would cause him to fault.
As the campaign progressed I was surprised that:
Giuliani dropped out so fast
McCain trumped Romney
Biden was the vp choice
I think we would have been best off with Romney - and it would be better to have a Repub president if the Demos have the congress - gridlock is about the best we can expect out of DC - whenever one party has all the levers it is a disaster - well maybe just a worse disaster than the lesser disaster of gridlock...
Nevertheless - Everything was in a huge mess from the credit bubble, nobody could stop it, the choice was to drag it out or get it over quickly - so now we are dragging it out because BB says the system will fail otherwise... I'm not sure what 'fail' would really mean - anarchy?
Well we got what we got, and now we are going to get the consequences.
and once the elephant is back to the right fork in the road...hoping the taxpayer recoups what is due via taxation and or securities held that have substantial market value
Romney was CEO of Bain & Company, a management consultancy, and co-founder/partner of Bain Capital a private equity firm
"At the very least the top management should have been fired ...Now they are getting outrageous bonuses again while screwing the public on cramdowns and credit card reform. "
Obama chose not to do that and it tells a lot about him... Faustian deal in action, "we will give you the presidency and you shut the hell up about Wall Street crimes and leave us alone".
Alabaster Pachyderms, the late g.o.p.
mock turtle
My position is that there are 3 major parties in America ...
Democratic, Republican and Corporate ...
The Corporate Party is by far the most powerful party and dominates
the majority in both the Democratic and Republican Parties ...
We see it everyday in DC ... Durbin even remarked " They Own the place!"
Until the real power behind the thrown is acknowledged you will always be confused.
and i dont grant obama a pass just cause i am a dem, ok? You get my respect award for that Mock...
Really amazing that anyone wants the DC jobs considering the mess, the hassle, and the lack of anonymity... I held some political positions for a while - everyone hates you eventually...
Romney is a real businessperson not some play at it multigenerational pretender. There's no way he'd have fallen for the AIG domino theory of CDS. He'd have seen through that in a New York minute. His politics are earnest not opportunistic. And he certainly wouldn't have named a bunch of second stringers to high office.
OT: The interesting thing with looking at interest rate spreads in judging the economy, is that the a narrower spread is not always a good thing. Look at the spread between fixed rate mortgages and long term Treasuries. Its now closing up, but mainly because long term rates are rising. Is this a good thing? No necessarily if its because government supply of debt is swamping possible buyers.
timmyone
its not over..he could bit the hand that "Fed ") him ...ha ha.
im suspending final judgment, but seeing the likes of summers in the center circle makes me puke
dryfly
There is no reason that the top management not be fired ...
Leaving them in place will only guarantee more trouble in
" walking the elephant backwards" ...
If Obama lets some banks fail he would be a Hero to the American public. At first I could see Obama did not agree with the Geitner and the banker's, then the next week he completely backed down. The pressure behind the scenes must be huge keeping him from making the right decisions.
From Wikipedia...
After graduation, Romney remained in Massachusetts and went to work for the Boston Consulting Group, where he had interned during the summer of 1974.[10] From 1978 to 1984, Romney was a vice president of Bain & Company, Inc., another management consulting firm based in Boston. In 1984, Romney left Bain & Company to co-found a spin-off private equity investment firm, Bain Capital.[11] During the 14 years he headed the company, Bain Capital's average annual internal rate of return on realized investments was 113 percent,[12] making money primarily through leveraged buyouts.[13] He invested in or bought many well-known companies such as Staples, Brookstone, Domino's, Sealy Corporation and Sports Authority.[14]
In 1990, Romney was asked to return to Bain & Company, which was facing financial collapse. As CEO, Romney managed an effort to restructure the firm's employee stock-ownership plan, real-estate deals and bank loans, while increasing fiscal transparency. Within a year, he had led Bain & Company through a highly successful turnaround and returned the firm to profitability without layoffs or partner defections.[12]
Romney left Bain Capital in 1998 to head the 2002 Salt Lake City Olympic Games Organizing Committee.[15] He and his wife have a net worth of between 250 and 500 million USD,[16][17] not including Romney's blind trust in the name of their children, which is valued at about $100 million.[18]
Rob Dawg,
AIG and the US Government were officially joined at the hip in September, pre-election. As for his would-be power base, I do not know if they would have wanted to continue the AIG ownership and what ramifications may have been after going from full support to cut loose.
Hey Rob Dawg when is that Calif. election on the taxes?
and once the elephant is back to the right fork in the road...hoping the taxpayer recoups what is due via taxation and or securities held that have substantial market value
I am certain they haven't even thought that far ahead - right now it is get the damned thing back away from the ledge... worry about what to do with it later.
I mean remember when TG was slow getting the 'plan' out? Took an extra month and people had coronaries over the delay? Same with the stress testing? Right now they have to focus on just keeping the damned beast moving back - or at least NOT bolting forward again. They are just hoping there IS another 'better' fork back there somewhere.
Outsider (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 1:37 pm reply Ignore user
I've seen enough informed opinions floating around here to consider a CR Symposium at the White House.
Now that would be fun. Depending on the menu, I'd consider going.
Boiled dawg on a bed of fresh t-notes sprinkled with $150 oil and vinegar dressing.
mmckinl said
"Until the real power behind the thrown is acknowledged you will always be confused."
-
huh? confused, ...about what...what are you talking about
"Romney is a real businessperson not some play at it multigenerational pretender. There's no way he'd have fallen for the AIG domino theory of CDS. He'd have seen through that in a New York minute. His politics are earnest not opportunistic. And he certainly wouldn't have named a bunch of second stringers to high office."
~~~~
My position is that there are 3 major parties in America ...
Democratic, Republican and Corporate ...
That's pretty close, but acutally there's only one party - the Corporate party. You can have a republican flavor or a democrat flavor, but it all comes in the same cone.
White house dinners - Here I got the impression that Barry and Michele were more the champagne and lobster type - roast beef? Outsourced to Arby's? No wonder the 2 guests dont want to talk about it...
"huh? confused, ...about what...what are you talking about"
~~~~
Point proved ...
If there were no desirable candidates, then the problem is not the candidates themselves but the manner in which the system chooses the candidates.
The way candidates are selected in the U.S. is far from ideal, but the economic catastrophe was already baked in no matter who had been elected.
As with albrt above, I am far more unhappy with Congress than I am with Obama.
I also continue to believe that Obama is possibly the best person we could have in that position considering it would always be a career politician.
Boiled dawg on a bed of fresh t-notes sprinkled with $150 oil and vinegar dressing.
Where's the pork?
"That's pretty close, but acutally there's only one party - the Corporate party.
You can have a republican flavor or a democrat flavor, but it all comes in the same cone."
~~~
Somebody gets it ...
ShadowInventory (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 1:49 pm
Hey Rob Dawg when is that Calif. election on the taxes?
Tuesday May 19th, 20:00 PDT and the results from both polling and early voting show 1A-1E defeated with a long shot for 1C possible. It's so over even the firefighters and teachers unions are cutting back on their agitprop campaigns.
mmckinl, If that is how you win an argument... pic 1 pic 2
I only know one Calif voter, and he voted no on all props.
EHP - Pic2 - EEEEwwwwwwwwwwwww
Rob Dawg
ShadowInventory
i grant you...mitt romney was, is a very smart , diligent and professional person...
i read during the campaign that he graduated at the top of his class and has a genius iq
he is everything that bush was not and i respect romney tho disagree with several of his policy positions
we may yet get to see how he would, will, perform as president
Mc Cain was another Bob Dole. Republicans new The Democrats had a good chance with the coming economy dump and the unpopular war. Mc Cain was sacrificed and Romney put on hold for the next election. Romney having his own money was a rub with the party. Some deal was cut and he backed down. If America is lucky OB will be a one term President and we can get to work with real brains and leadership. The real Hope now.
There is no reason that the top management not be fired ...
Leaving them in place will only guarantee more trouble in
" walking the elephant backwards" ...
Some of the top mgmt has been removed if I recall - AIG in total - Ken Lewis at BOA? Even in a hostile take over you don't sack the executives UNTIL (1) you have ownership FOR SURE (2) you have replacements ready. Hell they haven't even replaced ALL the Bushies in the executive branch yet... and they are going to run the banks? Huh?
They can't fire ANYONE until they actually OWN them [like AIG]... and they don't want to do that until they have the people in place to run them. Anything else is a 'cold dead restart'.
Everyone - myself included - has 'easy fast answers'... the reality is the execution is/will be a bitch.
sportsfan,
I agree completely. In truth I am apathetic about the current political structure, not because I am uninformed or uninterested but because I think it will have to change and that I will comparatively find much more interesting
ShadowInventory (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 1:54 pm reply Ignore user
I only know one Calif voter, and he voted no on all props.
Now you know 2. Only 3 million to go.
By and large, private equity is a big sham. Glorified house flipping.
Basically, wall street types that know didley squat about an industry let alone running an actual business buy out corporate insiders with leverage. They then re-arrange the deck chairs and make the company "appear" more valuable. Often, the changes implemented are designed to make the earnings look better in the short term but at a cost to the long run viability and profitabilit of the company. Overfunded pensions are suddenly paid out as "dividends" to the PE firm. Then the PE asset strippers dump the shares back in the public markets during a "reflation" or boom. PE was the original 2&20 deal.
Romney had a knack for this type of tomfoolery. Apparently, Dan Quayle did for a while too.
That wasn't roast beef! It was Roubini's butt done medium rare served over garlic mashed potatoes au jus.
Veratect posted a second swine flu fatality in Texas: US, Texas: Department of Health reports second fatal case of influenza A (H1N1) in a Cameron County resident.
Looking for the actual story now to confirm....wait Foxnews is running it. now...
dryfly,
The US is still just a major creditor of AIG, it officially has less than 80% ownership for accounting purposes
Much as I would like to see conservative govt, I dont think it will happen until the electorate gets better educated in economics and psychology... it's so easy to fool them - all you have to do is promise them some benefit and they will elect you, then you can rip them off as much as you want via taxes and borrowing, and they never wise up.... and of course, they stay poor while waiting for the next benefit promise...
EvilHenryPaulson
No ...
and please refrain from showing your family photos ...
mmckinl (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 1:51 pm
(i wrote , "huh? confused, ...about what...what are you talking about")
~~~~
you responded, "Point proved ..."
yikes...dontcha think thats a little harsh? i was just tryin to liten up
Romney lost. He didn't get enough early votes for street cred and didn't do half what he should have in California. Packaging? Marketing? Lack of ground troops? A little of each. That said we may indeed get to test a Romney Presidency far sooner than many envision.
Angry Saver,
You simply highlight the one extreme of PE. There is nothing wrong with PE. Consider the listed undesirable aspects of PE to be a symptom of a credit bubble environment.
Outsider (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 4:37 pm
I've seen enough informed opinions floating around here to consider a CR Symposium at the White House.
You speak directly to power here. Maximum two removes from the throne, reading your every post. Come on, like one of the regular readers / posters isn't a Fed governor or some shit. Why bother going to them, they are sitting at your doorstep taking notes.
Now that would be fun. Depending on the menu, I'd consider going.
I obvious am at the Executive's disposal for all reasonable requests, but I would want to skip the dinner. That is a photo op. I can mooch dinner off any number of people, and Barry won't smoke me out after dinner.
Obama, you listening?
If you're not comfortable with being threaded into a linguistic forensic device and made to be one of the voices of a consensus that's enslaved to solve the economic problems of some late-21st century nation, stop posting.
Exactly Angry Saver ...
By and large, private equity is a big sham. Glorified house flipping.
When wil the White House start serving squirrel?
O had never done anything to prepare for what has happened in the US, yet neither had McCain........So we were fu###ed either way. Talk about a piss poor choice to choose from, and we are not stupid, we wanted a rock star and we got one.....So shoot me.
Rob Dawg,
Sooner than many envision?
Wouldn't his chance at presidency be in 3.5 years, or never?
I think there is plenty of evidence that ANY attempts to manage any economy produces a worse result than the free market. Try reading some of Tom Sowell's works... For those who never heard of him... Thomas Sowell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sowell has written extensively about historical attempts to manage economies all over the world, and the outcomes and impacts on the populations...
My advice to Obama would be to start planning for what is virtually inevitable: a suspension of the Constitution, returning home of troops, martial law, and a new currency.
We here like to speculate on a better approach to the insolvency of the government and financial system and the Potemkin economy. And indeed there is an approach that is more faithful to US laws and principles. But it would precipitate a rapid collapse of everything, IMO.
So Obama's policy is to fake the health of the status quo as long as possible.
Honestly, I have to think the planning for this coming stage (the end of the republic) is underway already.
The administration probably isn't as stupid as it acts.
mock
"yikes...dontcha think thats a little harsh? i was just tryin to liten up"
~~~
point taken ...
FFDIC roubini rump roast lmfao
"That said we may indeed get to test a Romney Presidency far sooner than many envision."
~~~
I see a Jeb in our future ... especially if Obama doesn't get real with the banksters pronto ...
Things will get bad. Bad enough that someone named Bush can win? No. Other candidates should at least enter the primaries.
Elvis - white house squirrel - Dont tempt me like that... I would probably have a 1000 snappy lines that would provoke mayhem here...
But served with a side of veggies from the south lawn garden?
EvilHenryPaulson (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 2:03 pm
Rob Dawg, Sooner than many envision?
Wouldn't his chance at presidency be in 3.5 years, or never?
The Dems are acting like they've got 8 solid years.
Anyone else think that perhaps the ISM Services inventory sentiment is unjustifiably elevated, thus skewing the index?
EconomPic: ISM Services: Contracting at Slower Rate
ShadowInventory (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 2:07 pm reply Ignore user
Elvis - white house squirrel - Dont tempt me like that... I would probably have a 1000 snappy lines that would provoke mayhem here...
But served with a side of veggies from the south lawn garden?
But not watermelons:
Think Progress » Mayor who sent White House watermelon e-mail resigns.
I thought maybe the true conservatives would abandon the Republican name and start a new party. There actually is a fringe party called the American Conservative party whose platform mostly reads conservative, but I dont know if they are a bunch of wacknuts... One thing is they have a plank calling for tariffs to protect american jobs - guess they havent read about GD1
But they can't do a reboot and not have the system come to a complete halt - the economy won't survive that. So they continue to try and walk the beast backward instead of face the prospect of a dead restart. They can always revisit the 'reboot later'... if conditions deteriorate... but once they go reboot there is no going back. You don't unscramble the egg.
The reboot will happen when all else fails, or is in the process of obviously failing. The only thing I believe about Obama is that he's smart enough to see it when the time comes, and canny enough to change course abruptly and start making Wall Street the scapegoat it deserves to be.
I'm giving him nine more months, then giving up. Things should be more than bad enough by then for the majority of the American people, even if the economy's shrinking process has slowed markedly.
From the GOP perspective regarding Romney the positives would have been:
1. Elected Gov of a heavily Dem state and performed reasonably well
2. Management of Olympics gave him cred for running an organization with a national profile
The con side would be the private equity connection as the PE/LBO people are joined at the hip with the banksters generally.
I actually wrote him in on my ballot rather than choose BHO or McDumb. I know, that doesn't count since he wasn't running, but it was a form of protest.
The GOP is toast anyhow.
My advice to Obama would be to start planning for what is virtually inevitable: a suspension of the Constitution, returning home of troops, martial law, and a new currency.
So in your view it's midnight in America?
unirealist (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 5:03 pm
My advice to Obama would be to start planning for what is virtually inevitable: a suspension of the Constitution
I think the possibility of a Constitutional Convention where we decide to have "a new Constituion" is so ludicrously unlikely as to not be worth consideration.
I think I would take any other monkeying with the Charter of the Republic -- by say, Executive fiat -- as being one of those "Second Amendment moments," right up there with "canceled elections for national security reasons". I don't feel remotely alone in this sentiment.
said twice
i agree with Rob Dawg that romney possessed exceptional qualifications
i was more than surprised that the repub primary elections ended so early ( march verses june for the dems) like there was an ordination
Very few governments are re-elected during a poor economy. It's a crude survival mechanism applied to politics, and trumps all other special interests. Probably too early to speculate when we have some major historical events coming down the pike, and the mid-term Congressional elections haven't happened
EHP - someone said earlier today the ISM numbers are not very accurate - +/- 5 as I recall...
Nah. This is 'no drama Obama.' You won't see a lot of radical drastic action that would alarm the markets and the sheeple. The major goal here is to calm everythng down, maintain order, and hope like hell we can grow our way out of it. And as far as I can determine, that's the general consensus-- only the politicos and econ bloggers seem to be advocating radical action, and they have no real power. So the PTB will have little effective opposition as they attempt to turn this around.
I thought maybe the true conservatives would abandon the Republican name and start a new party.
Instead everyone else abandoned the Republican Party and left it to the neocons and theocons.
If another Republican or 2 switches sides in the Senate, the leftover white elephants might as well be lawn furniture.
You know, on second thought, I agree that the whole "dinner with the dissenters" idea was bogus.
If Obama and his crowd really wanted to stress test their approach to the financial crisis, they would have cleared a Saturday, booked a room and staged an economics tag-team wrestling match between the dissenting crowd and the gov't finance guys and their gurus. With Paul Volcker as free-floating agent of chaos. The dissenters could bring their computers, references, and top grad students. All generalizations and faulty premises by both sides to be mercilessly dissected.
Of course, Obama might not have been able to stay awake through the whole thing...
I wonder of Limbaugh feels guilty for his part in the destruction of the Republican party.
Naaaah.
Goldman Sachs Says U.S. Bank Debt Is ‘Attractive,’ Boosts Rating
Goldman Sachs Group Inc. said U.S. bank debt is “attractive” and boosted its rating on Bank of America Corp. and Capital One Financial Corp. debt to “outperform.”
Outperform what is the question.
Before I had dinner at the White House, I would want to know the whereabouts of the people responsible for Air Force I photo-op of last week.
hot off the press at krugmans
May 5, 2009, 5:11 pm
Nothing to say
Andrew Leonard and Calculated Risk want to know why I didn’t blog about dinner at the White House. Um, because the conversation was off the record.
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sportsfan (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 5:13 pm
Instead everyone else abandoned the Republican Party and left it to the neocons and theocons.
It left us, thanks.
Hi, Paul!
I doubt Jeb Bush would run. No disrespect to him but I think the country is Bushed out. The Republican party has a lot to prove to many like me ( I no longer am a Republican) looking for a real fiscal conservative party. If they run Romney properly I am in at this point.
i wonder what nickname Krugman posts as?
Putting on a show for the gullible followers that are at risk for becoming skeptics.
Need to string 'em along a little more with the "Opacity of false hope".
The Republicans have demonstrated a remarkable lack of knowledge of how to campaign and get elected. Now back in Nixon's time they knew how to do the dirty tricks, but they seem to want to take the high road and dont hammer their opponents enough. McCain said nothing about Obamas drug use/dealing... or about his parentage smoke screen... or his ties to admitted terrorists... those issues should have been front and center but were completely neglected.... perhaps they were being extra cautious because of the race issue but that will probably not come up again now that Obama has been elected... Anyway, it doesnt matter if the majority of the voters will keep voting for a free lunch instead of liberty and a more stable currency... No matter who is in office, the economy is unmanageable - it can only be interferred with...
lawyerliz (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 5:18 pm
i wonder what nickname Krugman posts as?
I'm Spartacus!
Okay, the conversation was 'off the record.' How was the food?
At 65, I too am seeing what unirealist is implying that is/might be our destiny. Never ever another Bush, pop and Barb can cry all they want to.
Martial Law will be the first to come, and if I was a reporter, the sign company that has the contract would be where I would be snooping now.
I
I am not Paul Krugman
"The major goal here is to calm everythng down, maintain order,"
Who prefers disorder?
An interesting angle of attack by what's left of the Neo-Know-Nothings, is a peculiar emphasis on the idea that Obama isn't smart and has no attention span for details.
[Andrew Leonard and Calculated Risk want to know why I didn’t blog about dinner at the White House. Um, because the conversation was off the record.]
False hope AND claims of transparency.
no one is gonna let the banks fail. it's simply not a political solution. And it's not accurate that trillions of dollars are going to the bankers pockets; it's going to the creditor's pockets, with the bankers taking a hefty premium. As we're finding out from the Chrysler BK proceedings, it's difficult to distinguish between hedge funds for pension funds and endowments and hedge funds for the high net worth individuals. Yes, it's an abomination that individuals are making hundreds of millions of dollars by jeopardizing the health of the entire system, but it's not the role of Fed or the TARP to police that, especially not through capitalization measures.
The proper way to fix those problems is through the criminal statutes (e.g. Cuomo's crackdown on pay to play) or the tax codes (e.g. jack the marginal rate for individuals making over X dollars).
If another Republican or 2 switches sides in the Senate, the leftover white elephants might as well be lawn furniture. - AMF
It doesn't matter, they're demoralized. And they can't seem to field a team the country likes. A party composed of old white men just doesn't cut it anymore. And speaking as a Democrat, that's not good-- you have to have healthy, viable opposition. But you also have to have moderates in both parties who can actually get something done, rather than just rant and scream at each other. And I don't see that happening for some years, because the PACs are still feeding the nutcase types in the House and Senate. There's no longer the political reward system for being a good horse trader.
"the president invited to the White House some of his administration's sharpest critics on the economy"
You have got to be effing kidding me...
Hi Paul! Good to know the commentariat is being observed. It would be better if they were heeded but that's another story.
Let me make my position clear; advocating for $4t in stimulus is not criticism of only spending $2t.
Uhhh oh. That was fast. I think I hear black helicopters.
If the Repubs were truly a fiscally conservative party, the past 8 years would have been different.
They have utterly proved to me that they are unworthy to govern.
A new party is needed. I am still registered Repub, 'cause I just couldn't bear to be a Democrat;
my ancestors would haunt me. But I would love to join a centrist party with the Limbaughs and Fundies left behind.
Rob Dawg (homepage, profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 1:33 pm
Certainly at least half of O's problems were inevitable/unavoidable but if you think Romney wouldn't have bankster heads on poles out on the south lawn by now you are mistaken.
I actually find it quite amazing that Romney has barely been heard from during all this, only rising from below the surface last week.
lawyerliz (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 2:18 pm reply Ignore user
i wonder what nickname Krugman posts as?
I think you can safely rule out Rob Dawg.
So. the conversation was "off the record?" Welcome to the newspeak transparency.
Nothing to say
Andrew Leonard and Calculated Risk want to know why I didn’t blog about dinner at the White House.
Um, because the conversation was off the record.
Hahahahahaha, dawg.
I've been very critical of the administration!
er, no, I'm not Paul Krugman, didnt say that... what - duh - This isnt on is it?
There's no longer the political reward system for being a good horse trader.
scone, that's a big part of the problem in Congress. You're just not idealogically pure enough if you're willing to talk to the other side.
Why does the current Made-for-TV-SitCom-Presidency seem so transparent ?
Maybe that's what the claims of transparency meant all along ? Or does transparency mean leaking trial balloons every day ?
Comrade Alexei Mikhailovich,
I can't see much upside for Romney for public comment/appearances given the economic situation that private equity types in general have to take some responsibility for.
Basel Too, too true. The solution, effective or not, to every crisis is wasteful and inefficient pretty much by definition. Creating the environment that will TEND to reward those that are good and punish those that aren't is all we can hope for; but it will be enough I think. Our intuition for size is flawed. This whole issue is big in every direction and not susceptible to quick, simple, or simplistic repair.
i have children....the future matters..im just heart sick over all this
I have nephews. When they're old enough to understand what's been done to them, I pray that they they will cut me a little slack.
Everyone over 50 should have spent the last 30 years demanding a balanced budget and some sort of sane energy policy - and made those demands stick, instead of continuously accept the schlock-mongers that we kept getting.
Here is the answer
Nothing to say
Andrew Leonard and Calculated Risk want to know why I didn’t blog about dinner at the White House. Um, because the conversation was off the record.
It is IMO a very good news that (a) Obama knows that some reputable economists are strongly critical of his economic policies and (b) he actually makes an effort to understand their arguments
Place your bets. I left this at Krugman's blog:
"Ahhhh, Obama’s new transparency. — Rob Dawg"
What are the chances it gets past moderation?
re: Andrew Lo & Adaptive Market Hypothesis, FT.com / Short View
Not that I disagree, but it's just a gauche re-interpretation of Minsky's financial instability or Fisher's Debt Deflation or Hayek's Credit Bubble.
You would think after so many sequels we could learn from our mistakes as a group
"scone, that's a big part of the problem in Congress. You're just not idealogically pure enough if you're willing to talk to the other side."
The Dems as currently constituted are the least ideologically pure party I've ever seen.
It's not about ideologies, at least not these days. It's about brands and franchises -- in politics as in business. Maybe more so. Think Coke and Pepsi instead of Dems and Repubs, and you'll figure out why they "don't listen to each other." Why should they?
The Fundies have suffered several blows-- loss of the election, loss of membership money, humiliation of Palin, and most importantly, total failure of the Millenarian predictions that were fueling 10 - 20 % tithing. And the Dominionist movement seems to be going nowhere. In my area, they seem to be having trouble recruiting to their private schools, because of tuition costs, I suppose. But it will be a slow fade to black, the more they get pushed back the more radical they get, like "When Prophesy Fails."
"Place your bets. I left this at Krugman's blog:
"Ahhhh, Obama’s new transparency. — Rob Dawg"
What are the chances it gets past moderation?"
I'd say 50-50. I've had some one-liners get through.
If there is one thing Obama does well, it's campaign... and the campaign is on, has been since election day...
He doesnt do so well without the teleprompter though - and maybe the time will come when the voters will take a look at actions, not image - ah nah, never happen - since the Kennedy Nixon debate it's been a tv presidency...
Cutting the ties to the static McCarthyism on the radio is piece of cake, but keeping the voters and losing the dogma is going to be difficult amongst those of faith.
Deutschebank involved in first CDS insider trading case, FT Alphaville » Blog Archive » SEC launches first-ever CDS insider trading case
Big day for them, considering they also went after Reserve Primary. They must have finished the work on Mark Cuban (^_^)
BTW - If I had to bet on the reason BHO summoned the 2 vocal critics to the WH it would be to calmly demand they CEASE & DESIST OR FACE TORTURE. Along the lines of the hedgies that refused to take their medicine with Chrysler.
The more claims of "Change" are made, the less likely that outcome becomes.
"He doesnt do so well without the teleprompter though - and maybe the time will come when the voters will take a look at actions, not image - ah nah, never happen - since the Kennedy Nixon debate it's been a tv presidency..."
No, he doesn't. Better than the last guy, though. And the voters never even took a look at his actions.
Dominionist??
Romney's "exceptional talent" was in repositioning himself from being to the left of Ted Kennedy to being the claimed standard-bearer of the social conservatives. Such utter lack of any position drawn from inner conviction was typically a real winner before YouTube was available to help refresh our memories.
bobn (homepage, profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 2:28 pm reply Ignore user
i have children....the future matters..im just heart sick over all this
I have nephews. When they're old enough to understand what's been done to them, I pray that they they will cut me a little slack.
Everyone over 50 should have spent the last 30 years demanding a balanced budget and some sort of sane energy policy - and made those demands stick, instead of continuously accept the schlock-mongers that we kept getting.
I voted for Diane Feinstein the first time solely because of her pledge to support a balanced budget amendment. Her first act in office was to repudiate that pledge.
"Everyone over 50 should have spent the last 30 years demanding a balanced budget and some sort of sane energy policy - and made those demands stick, instead of continuously accept the schlock-mongers that we kept getting."
~~~~
Reaganomics ... The Gipper done gipped us ... traded an actual production economy for
a financial Three Card Monty ...
Scone.
+1
But they also can't field any ideas that the country might like...their new initiative has Cantor, Romney and Jeb Bush as frontmen...truly, they have got to be freaking kidding themselves.
US Treasury Department Issues Emergency Recall Of All US Dollars
At the moment, people are talking about a new 2 party system, with the Blue Dogs and their friends splitting off to become the new conservatives. If that happened, American politics could become more predictably right-left, like Europe. Which would be boring, since our parties have always been more complex than that: city/country, big gov't/small gov't, internationists/isolationists, etc.
The change candidate. We got "change" we voted for:
Jeykl ran for the Presidency and Hyde got elected ?
I don't think McCain would have invitied dissenters for dinner to hear their opinions, on or off the record. Bush never did. I give Obama high marks for effort on this one. I just hope he realizes he made some poor choices for top economic advisers and elevates Volcker.
Well something ought to be formed to replace the Repubs.
The Whig party will rise again!!
"CEASE & DESIST OR FACE TORTURE."
What torture? Rice has been stoutly claiming that waterboarding is not torture, and that if the president said it was ok, it was ok, and did not violate the constitution or any pesky international agreements. Since this has been cleared up by the republicans, I ask you again, what torture?
the more they get pushed back the more radical they get
Let them. After what they did to this country? The Republic will never be safe from their salafist fantasies until we have an enforced doctrine of laicite.
I think they should make many irrational attempts to seize power, all the better to compel people to acknowledge what a profound threat out home-grown Taliban poses to our way of life as a post-medieval culture.
the president invited to the White House some of his administration's sharpest critics on the economy ...
Can we please stop with this meme? This is a ridiculous assertion. And basing any conclusions on it (such as "it's good news that Obama is actually listening to his sharpest critics") is a fool's errand.
If Obama wanted real dialogue at the meeting, he'd have invited Ed Crane from Cato, or Ron Paul, in place of one of the Punch-and-Judy duo.
Rob Dawg said it best: suggesting the gub'mint throw $4T at the problem does not make you a "sharp critic" of someone only willing to spend $2T.
OT: SEC Fraud Charges Against Reserve
"Dominionist?? "
They're a breakaway sect, like Papa Johns.
@fried And yet, you never know in politics, people come out of nowhere and just completely change the game board, like Obama. I think that's one reason why O wants a calm, controlled velvet revolution. He knows better than to give the Repubs any material that could suggest the crisiis not being dealt with effectively. He won't give anybody an edge to mount an attack. Totally teflon.
The Troubles w/ Trillions...
How long before Dawg finds out whether he got posted?
Arbit, you are too funny.
obama is a pig.
OT: Clerical Error Caused Subprime Disaster
From Wikipedia on Jeb Bush:
"Bush enrolled at Phillips Andover, a private boarding school in Massachusetts, already attended by his brother, George. Bush made the honor roll in his first semester.
When Bush was 17, he went to León, Guanajuato, in Mexico, as part of his school's student exchange program. He spent his time there teaching English, and it was there that he met his future wife, Columba Garnica Gallo.
Bush attended the University of Texas at Austin, where he graduated Phi Beta Kappa with a Bachelor's degree in Latin American Studies in 1973, taking only two and a half years to complete his work, and obtaining generally excellent grades. He had considered a career in Hollywood, but decided instead to pursue politics. He registered for the draft, but the Vietnam War ended before his number came up."
That's actually a pretty good early resume. I think that he wouldn't be a viable candidate any time soon due to just the family connection and his involvement with real estate enterprises in Florida. The "fundies" might have a problem with him as apparently he converted to Catholicism. If he's patient and waits til 2016 he might have a shot.
Mook
you unwillingness (and Rob Dawg too) to recognize the significant differences between krugman and obama makes no sense
are you saying that unless obama invites his most extreme critics to meet (btw i like and respect ron paul) he gets no credit for listening to diverse opinions
come on...i do hope you have been equally critical of conservatives who have no time to sit down with a liberal ok
obama has crossed the road and listened to his detractors
They're a breakaway sect, like Papa Johns.
.
Actually, they're my neighbors. The guy next to me put his kid into the local 'recruiting soldiers for Jesus' school and bought him a fake Army uniform with a big cross on the front. The kid practices killing (n-word) and (defamatory word for Arabs)... they are seriously into this shit.
You know, the Dismal Science is an acquired taste, like willingly learning Latvian, I suppose.
Obama strikes me as a quick study, combined with the wherewithal upstairs to take in the big picture. He's really had to learn economics on the fly, and I think he'll get it, if he hasn't got it already.
Oops, I just realized that I was #20 who quoted Krugman's comment. Sorry.
So Rob Dawg, you were clearly a supporter of Jerry Brown for President? His major plank was a balanced budget... he actually was a serious contender for a while, even in the Democratic party with such a stand!
My, my, how things have changed. Now, both Dems and Reps are embarrassed by the mention of a "BB"... (no, not Ben...)
Ummm, is a call to child protective services in order?
Never mind, the kid would prolly end up even worse.
Posted on the pervious now dead thread, some pics of Pak: http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Pakistan-Peshawar2C-Pakistan/photo//090504/481/32a40b58627b4c66a73e891a6959dd05/#photoViewer=/090504/ids_photos_ts/r892240725.jpg
Everyone over 50 should have spent the last 30 years demanding a balanced budget and some sort of sane energy policy . . .
Instead, their mission was to mock Jimmy Carter for wearing a sweater.
The result: the guy who beat him tripled the national debt.
Kung Fu Panda
yes, of all the brothers Jeb made the most sense as a prez candidate...certainly more than neil (after the silverado bank job)
what happened
did you see pappy bush tear up at the podium with his arm over jebs shoulder as he made his fla farewell speech
clearly rove took dubya in directions that the house of bush had not planned
Jeb Bush??
Jeb Bush and Lehman Brothers and the SBA of Florida and its losses is an ugly story...and it will surface again if Jeb runs.
Where Was Jeb? - Forbes.com
scone is that in Oregon?
The mountain shaped to look like a skull was really cheery.
Ummm, is a call to child protective services in order? - LL
No can do, some of the "official" locals are rad fundies too. it reminds me of Memphis in the 50's, when I was a kid. The Klan controlled everything, from city hall to the judges to the local cops, they were the Klan. It's not that bad here, and there's plenty of garden variety corruption as well, but the fundy element is sort of concentrating out here.
"suggesting the gub'mint throw $4T at the problem does not make you a "sharp critic" of someone only willing to spend $2T"
~~~~
Both Krugman and Stiglitz advocate for nationalization ...
Stiglitz wants banks as Public Utilities ...
Hardly what we are seeing from Obama ...
The Banksters have even quashed new regulation! What about bringing back the Glass-Steagall Act?
scone,
That is just scary. We have some nut trying to start his own church a few streets down. He ambushed my wife and two kids on the way to the playground a few weeks ago spouting crap about the purity of children, that a good women keeps her eyes down and respects her husband and elders, and oh by the way I am having church at my house on Tuesday nights. Actually grabbed my wife by the arm and wouldn't let her pass. When I found out I tracked this nut down and told him to stay away from my family. Crazy thing is that he has people coming over for service. Couldn't believe it.
mt [he gets no credit for listening to diverse opinions]
c'mon, the made-for-tv-President ? He either called them in to silence them since they have the ear of many "progressives" (he couldn't give a rat's ass about what conservatives think) or he did it as a ruse to string the dupes along a little further...
Crazy thing is that he has people coming over for service. Couldn't believe it. - Vonbek 77
I'm a Southerner, and I've seen a lot of revival stuff, which doesn't freak me out particularly, but back in the day, uber-radical fundy weirdness used to be a much smaller piece of the religious picture. Mostly little nut-case congregations in the deep woods, snake handlers and such. Now it's larger, it seems to me-- people who have been thrown out of the larger evangelical movement, and have sort of festered. Either that or the North West, where I live now, is a magnet for nut cases of all stripes, right and left.
How many speeches wll get loaded in the teleprompter for thurs night ?
5, 1 for each quintile of public opinion polls conducted 10 minutes after the release of the faux stress tests ?
What about bringing back the Glass-Steagall Act?
Politically, the only way Glass-Steagall comes back is if the entire G20 follows. As much many politicians talk about breaking up the banks, they will not do so if it means putting the US at a competitive disadvantage.
Personally, I'm not sure what advantage there actually was. And interestingly, the "bank" that everyone loves to hate, Goldman, would hardly be affected with a re-instituted Glass-Steagall.
ShadowInventory (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 2:30 pm
"He doesnt do so well without the teleprompter though . . . "
Yeah.
And you've watched his hour long press conferences -- you know, the ones where he answers questions without a teleprompter?
And he "doesn't do so well", right?
Wingnut.
You might want to tune into some better talk radio for better talking points.
Does this mean we are starting the next election process already? Two years where enough to wear one out. Maybe it is going to be a new record of three years.
Dawg...almost left the same thing...just did not hit post...... because i was sacred of the Black SUV's. You are FEARLESS and have balls of STEEL!
Oh, please. I'm hoping that primaries are stretched out again and they start much later.
I can't stand it. Of course the tv people will really need the ad revenue by that time.
What about bringing back the Glass-Steagall Act?
Politically, the only way Glass-Steagall comes back is if the entire G20 follows. As much many politicians talk about breaking up the banks, they will not do so if it means putting the US at a competitive disadvantage.
Personally, I'm not sure what advantage there actually was.
~~~~
Worked for decades ...
The banksters just want to play with deposits insured by US.
Angry Saver,
You simply highlight the one extreme of PE. There is nothing wrong with PE. Consider the listed undesirable aspects of PE to be a symptom of a credit bubble environment.
EHP,
The vast majority of PE is an inflation (central bank) trade. Zero added value. It is a vehicle to capture inflation and capitalize on credit stupidity and interest rates changes. The industry basically didn't even exist under the gold standard as debts were expected to be repaid.
Now that debts are never expected to be repaid only rolled over or dumped on the government, PE is one of our most profitable industries.
PE is a sham within a sham. That's why wall street loves it.
If dawg were a girl (note the subjunctive), would he have ovaries of steel?
Last!
As much many politicians talk about breaking up the banks, they will not do so if it means putting the US at a competitive disadvantage
What disadvantage? Are Countries like Great Britain, where individual banks hold assets far in excess of GDP, bastions of prosperity?
That argument is bogus. The U.S. was more competitive under Glass Steagle. Only our sham banksters would suffer. Good riddance.
Rob Dawg (homepage, profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 1:45 pm
"Romney is a real businessperson not some play at it multigenerational pretender. . . . His politics are earnest not opportunistic."
Earnest? Romney?
Double Gitmo Romney is earnest? Not opportunistic?
Pro-choice, I mean now I'm pro-life Romney is earnest?
Mitt "I don't line up with the NRA", I mean now I'd like to join 'cause I'm gonna run for President" is not opportunistic?
McCain's immigration plan is reasonable, Oh, wait a minute, no, on second thought it's amnesty Romney is earnest?
Yeah, Rob, Mitt's a giant of integrity.
Everyone over 50 should have spent the last 30 years demanding a balanced budget and some sort of sane energy policy ...
I often consider how the world would be a very different place if the North Sea fields hadn't opened up when they did.
You saw all the trouble Obama had with Rev. Jeremiah.
The Mormon thing would never have played in the south. Romney might as well have declared Xenu his homie.
as for Jeb :
"He had considered a career in Hollywood (but looked deeply into the mirror and ) ...decided instead to pursue politics (where he is still acting.)
I would note that in the interview in the NYT Mag this Sunday O did say that he reads Stiglitz's stuff "all the time", probably over stating it, but my guess is that he at leat reads PK's column regularly. Still would rather have Bob Reich playing Bob Reich than Larry Summers doing it as O said he was in the interview.
Not last!
bearly (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 4:59 pm reply Ignore user How many speeches wll get loaded in the teleprompter for thurs night ?
Bearly, Obama takes a much greater role in writing what goes on the teleprompter than most do. He can actually write well, unlike W who probably could not compose a gramatically correct sentence of more than 5 words.
[Obama takes a much greater role in writing what goes on the teleprompter than most do]
Speechwriter in chief ? Not sure what your point is. So far Obama has been a disappointment-in-chief.
I've seen enough informed opinions floating around here to consider a CR Symposium at the White House.
I think sending Jas alone would be quite sufficient.
Obama: Please, Mr. Jain, do have some more cavia--
Jas: Dope!
dryfly (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 4:22 pm
"Team O would have to run any of these 'proposed' operations - be like launching Barbarossa a week before the first snow."
Oh Bravo.
I hope I am not the only one to get the WW2 ref
He can actually write well, unlike W who probably could not compose a gramatically correct sentence of more than 5 words.
Yes, it's such a relief finally to have an articulate man telling us we must
--spend another $90B on failed imperial wars
--blow trillions up the ass of Wall Street
--joyfully await the resumption of shop-till-u-drop and borrow-like-there's-no-tomorrow.
Oh, how ghastly would it be living under the exact same policies if it were Bush articulating them. Pure hell.
Dawg,
Another Romney partisan? On hoocoodanode?
Solid.
Cheers,
prat
Barton - lol! (on 2 counts)
re: the comment that GOP ended primary's so early. ordained.
I was the campaign manager in a small college town in the south in1994 when a young 25 year old grad student asked me/told me he wanted to get in to politics in this town..... i told him run as a republican..... no one had run as a republican since reconstruction. But we had 12 dems in the primary every election.
Well he did and i ran his campaign. Against a very liberal female incumbent that the college kids adored..
the olypics were coming and our city (my hometown) were hosting some of the games and we were going to be front and center in the world limelight. well we gained momentum and people eventually started taking us seriously. long story short, out of 90000 votes cast we lost by 700 or 351 votes.
I did not request any kind of recount ...was the happiest day of my life. I always wondered what would happen if we had won. Neither of us probably really wanted to win in light of what could go wrong. We put up a good front of wanting to ride a wave to DC....
Point is, maybe some on the hill or that ran for pres know /knew how bad it could be and that 12 trillion was 12 trillion. And that is why we didnt see much of a fight from McCain....
its my humble opinion someone other than us could see this as well, and they played the game and went through the motions...
I hope they have some taffy at the white house.
Krugman just needs a little taffy.
I hope they have some taffy at the white house.
Krugman just needs a little taffy.
I hope they have some taffy at the white house.
Krugman just needs a little taffy.
I hope they have some taffy at the white house.
Krugman just needs a little taffy.
I hope they have some taffy at the white house.
Krugman just needs a little taffy.
Echo
Echo
Perhaps he was sharing more information about how bad it is to underspend on any government programs.
Obama:
Paul, so, how would you describe my blind spots so far.
Paul:
Regarding the economy?! Well........................................
Obama:
Stig what "nudges" would you recommend to achieve Paul's views?
Stig:
I usually tell my students a story............................................