The houses were already trashed by squatters and the city was giving the bank code violation notices and daily fines, and threatening the bank officers with criminal prosecution.... Bank sends in the crushers and everyone declares victory... There might be a few slabs left in place... nice overnight spot for the rv....
Q: Why is money/credit valuable?
A: Because people will work for it.
Q: What happens when the underlying currency/credit is in question?
A: Fewer people want it, labor is cheapened, and output goes down.
Q: If it is an allocation problem, can we fix it by redistributing wealth more efficiently?
A: Sure, but it is demotivating to the people that are working.
Q: What happens when the people receiving redistributions of wealth grow larger than those providing it?
A: A vicious feedback loop that rewards the irresponsible at the expense of the responsible; impairs output.
Q: Can we print enough money to solve the balance sheet problem?
A: Sure, but it won't do any good; loss of value/confidence is as great or greater than the output hole "filled"
..but I still don't get it. With all the out-of-work contractors, couldn't they finish these cheap and unload for $100k? Is Victorville really that bad?
Actually, I just checked. At $66/sf, maybe it is that bad.
So what would the banks record as the loss, or is this an improvement that they can mark up on their balance sheet?
The loan is probably worth 99 cents on the dollar don't you think.
Ah, Guaranty Bank, where my cousin was previously in CRE lending. Wasn't surprised to hear he left, but he ended up joining his dad in putting up extended stay/suite hotels in Texas. Hopefully, that turns out ok.
Nation-state as unitary actor / "national concensus" paradigm specious almost always, even in nation states, definitely not applicable to Pakistan.
Wasn't speaking of unitary actor role. How to put this...Pakistan as a nation has reached a point whether to embrace the future or look to the past. This crosses tribal, ethnic, and city/village concerns. Western products have flooded into Pakistan, children are being raised with contradictions between ready available technology and their very own beliefs and self-image. Islam is at the root, but it is almost an abstraction to a degree. And then you have India as a neighbor. The majority of people in Pakistan are not fanatics. They are ready to be a contender on the world stage if they can forge an identity that overtakes what separates them. My two cents.
@Shadow... "chance that the mortgage holder will come after you for the deficiency balance"
Yes, that's a concern, should things play out that way. Fortunately it looks as though a purchase-money mortgage in California is non-recourse. Evidently refi mortgages may be recourse loans. We may refi in June and that will be a significant issue.
In California, purchase money mortgages, which are mortgages where the borrowed funds are used to purchase the house, are generally treated as non-recourse debt. If the bank forecloses on a non-recourse mortgage, then the homeowner is treated as having sold the home for the amount of the outstanding debt. The difference between the outstanding debt and the homeowner's adjusted basis in the house is considered a gain or loss on the sale of the home. If the home is the taxpayer's principal residence, where they have lived for at least two of the past five years, the gain may be eligible for the gain exclusion on the sale of a principal residence. If the foreclosure results in a loss, the loss may not be taken since it resulted from the sale of a principal residence.
If the mortgage is recourse, such as a non-purchase money mortgage or a refinanced mortgage, any foreclosure may result in a gain on the sale of the house, and/or cancellation of debt income. The difference between the fair market value of the house and the homeowner's adjusted basis will result in a gain or loss on the sale of the home. To the extent the outstanding debt exceeds the fair market value of the house, the amount is treated as cancellation of debt income. Any gain on the portion treated as the sale of a personal residence may be eligible for the exclusion on the sale of a principal residence; however, as discussed above, the loss may not be taken on the sale. The portion that is treated as cancellation of debt income is taxed as ordinary income - subject to ordinary income tax rates. Your clients with canceled or forgiven mortgage debts may receive a Form 1099-C from the lender and will be expected to pay federal and state tax on the canceled amounts, at the ordinary income tax rate.
Guaranty Bank of Austin is wrecking the structures to provide a "safe environment" for neighbors of the abandoned housing tract in Victorville, a high-desert city about 85 miles northeast of Los Angeles, a bank spokesman said.
This tremendous waste of money from the public purse is for ALL OUR SECURITY. Why do you hate America? Don't you see this is for EVERYONE'S SECURITY, just like the Patriot Act that Obama still hasn't done anything about? You people just don't understand the financial system, clearly.
"Q: If it is an allocation problem, can we fix it by redistributing wealth more efficiently?
A: Sure, but it is demotivating to the people that are working."
Of course, the fallacy of this argument is that wealth == work., that the holders of wealth are wrokers.
Starbucks eliminated Fizzie drinks. Apparently Starbucks believes that I am too stupid to figure out that they're trying to force me to buy higher margin products. Starbucks, like McDonald's, has now entered my avoidance zone.
I'm not saying I want to see an India-Pakistan war; all I am saying is that should the extremists get their hands on the nukes they have multiple axes to grind. And that I think that the masses in Pakistan see India as more of a direct threat than the USA.
Our military is worn down from years of war and the SecState and Holbrooke are implying that we should prepare to invade Pakistan to secure the nukes? That would be a costly proposition, to say the least. It won't get done by teams of SpecOps and Predator strikes.
Victorville is lucky the bank hadn't been seized, because the FDIC sure as hell wouldn't be paying any fines. Tax/penalty liens the city may have placed on the properties would have quickly exceeded any remaining value, in which case Victorville itself would have become the proud new owners. Then they would have had spend the money to tear down the structures, fence off the area, cut off all utilities and ultimately stop providing police patrols. Of course, when the city itself goes BK, then we ultimately get a MadMax like ghost town such as is appearing in & around Detroit.
I'm not saying I want to see an India-Pakistan war; all I am saying is that should the extremists get their hands on the nukes they have multiple axes to grind. And that I think that the masses in Pakistan see India as more of a direct threat than the USA.
Our military is worn down from years of war and the SecState and Holbrooke are implying that we should prepare to invade Pakistan to secure the nukes? That would be a costly proposition, to say the least. It won't get done by teams of SpecOps and Predator strikes.
Charles Wheelan relays an anecdote in The Naked Economist about the Lada factories in the old Soviet Bloc, whose production quality was so shoddy that the sale value of a car rolling off one of their lines was less than the sum of the materials that went into its construction - never mind the labor.
I never thought I'd be witness to a more gross mis-allocation of capital in my lifetime.
Yet, somehow, we've managed to do the old Commies one better. We took perfectly good lumber and concrete, and thousands of man-hours of labor, and turned them into ... a series of structures with negative value.
"Insane" doesn't even begin to capture the sentiment. I don't know a word that would.
(Part of the problem with this whole financial system bust is that, expansive though it is, the English language doesn't seem to contain enough adjectives to do it justice.)
An interesting comment from Nassim Taleb at today's New Yorker Summit. He argues that even 1980s level of economy-wide debt are intolerable today, in part because of the Internet:
"We have to be a lot more careful going forward, because we have globalization, the internet, and operational efficiency — which cannot accommodate debt".
So why is it that Obama's economic team and Wall St are doing all they can to reflate the debt pool ???
@Gavshire "It is demotivating to the holders of wealth who have it redistributed; diminishes the value of acquiring wealth via labor."
Agreed. The trick is that the redistribution must take place gradually, by making it easier for those who seek to acquire wealth by labor to do so, and to make it more difficult for holders of wealth to preserve it without labor.
One fix that would go in the right direction would be to reinstate a meaningful inheritance taxation system.
BTW, there can be useful and productive labor involved in identifying true "investments", in the classic sense of what really offers security of principal and a reasonable rate of return.
A second fix would be tightening up the regulation of the financial system so that the incentives were properly tilted in favor of these productive investments and away from the fraud and scamming speculations that dominate the current system.
Something doesn't smell right about the reasons for the demolitions here.
First, the bank claims it's for "the good of the neighbors". WHAT neighbors? And since when has a bank done what is good?
Second, the numbers don't pencil out. From the WSJ: four of the 16 structures slated for demolition were "substantially complete," [...] and ""A Guaranty official based in California told the Victorville newspaper, the Daily Press, that it would cost more than $1 million to finish developing the property so it could be occupied... A demolition job of this size would likely cost more than $100,000...". Are they claiming they couldn't sell 16 homes and recoup more than $900,000+land value? Or at least sell the 4 finished homes??
There's some more insidious reason these homes had to be torn down. Chinese drywall? Indian burial ground? No water rights? Your guess is as good as mine, but it wasn't for the good of the neighbors, natch.
As a Pakistani, I concur wholeheartedly. The problem is that Pakistan never had an identity to begin with, other than loose definition as a state for the sub-continent's Muslims. Even that when doesn't hold after 1971.
No, they just label all the squatters vandals and crackheads and avoid moral duty. Perhaps they couldn't let the "good neighbors" see people enjoying their houses for less.
My guess is the tri-annual dark-portal that appears in the middle of the granite counter-top, where if you are not careful, evil sub-world creatures can released and we all know what havoc they can unleash...so best to knock the whole thing down.
@Mook: "Part of the problem with this whole financial system bust is that, expansive though it is, the English language doesn't seem to contain enough adjectives to do it justice"
Amen to that. Unfortunately we've also experienced and tolerated a lot of language inflation. The hype-media overused the extreme terms to the point where they don't convey extreme meanings anymore.
Fortunately we can invent new terms as needed ("bando"?), but that takes time and labor and does not come without cost.
So Byz., who will lead the "Young Pakis"? The Bhuttos don't dodge bullets well. I trust they'll let them wear whatever they want, and choose the most sensible alphabet.
Weeks prior to the partitioning of India, Montbatten told Jinnah that he, Montbatten would be the gov. general of both India and Pakistan post partition. Jinnah replied with "no you won't" An infuriated Montbatten told Jinnah his remarks may well cost Pakistan everything. The Brits set Pakistan up to fail as long as it didn't happen on their watch
CNBC did a 2 hour special called "House of Cards" on the mortgage blowup... if you havent seen it yet watch for a rerun - it was a terrific show - covered everything from the construction all the way up to some people in Norway who bought some of the CDO's and then had a big loss too...
One quote from the show that I remember - one of the mortgage brokers said that when he told an applicant that they got the loan and they signed all the papers, no one was crying - everyone was happy...
At the loanowner level, those people exhibited a remarkable lack of knowledge of finance and economics... some of them were probably totally illiterate... but they went ahead thinking that they were going to get rich in real estate by selling that house even higher....
" The trick is that the redistribution must take place gradually, by making it easier for those who seek to acquire wealth by labor to do so, and to make it more difficult for holders of wealth to preserve it without labor"
isn't that what the Federal Reserve and Govt' are doing?
I like that the demoltion is turning into a mysterious conspiracy.
Was it drywall? Can we get some flu blame going here?
There are several houses condemned and being demolished here for a new on-ramp. Is it possible that the owners of those properties owe too much and coincidently are friends with the zoning commissioner?!
I suspect it has been discussed in prior threads on this, but some non-insidious reasons they would bulldoze;
1. expensive public improvements needed before occupancy would be allowed- such as area streets, stop lights, sidewalks, etc.
2. high fees that need to be paid before occupancy- sewer/water connection fees, school impact fees, park fees (can total $30-50,000 per house in many CA cities)
3. Fines imposed by the city/county that would need to be paid before occupancy. This is becoming a revenue source for many cites in CA, who can impose up to $1,000 a day in fines for code violations.
4. property taxes to be paid on the "improvements"- billed to the developer until each unit is sold.
5. High security costs at building site until most of the properties are sold, given that thieves have been there already.
And no matter how low they price those houses, some nearly as new foreclosure down the street will price itself lower. The supply of new foreclosures out there is almost limitless.
Speed said: "I think, as someone mentioned, that no one wants to live in them at any price, except coyotes and rattlesnakes. "
My reply: When I was growing up in Baltimore, the city was selling derelict homes in a bombed out neighborhood for $1 if you would promise to fix them and live in them. It was a very successful program.
By the way, that bombed out neighborhood is in the Inner Harbor of Baltimore, and now is a very desirable place to live with condominiums going for $500K-$1.5MM.
Don't assume that no one wants to live in them at any price.
Wasn't speaking of unitary actor role. How to put this...Pakistan as a nation has reached a point whether to embrace the future or look to the past.
Allow me to bust my postmodern move.
Assigning responsibilities, goals, etc to a large group like a nation, tribal people, region, etc -- these speak mostly of the needs of the person doing the assignment. The group will be ambigious, and the statements will apply poorly, if at all, to the complex and confusing reality. However, they will be 100% representative of the worldview and motivations of the person doing the talking, although they may be duplicitous or self-deceived. This is especially true for Pakistan, which is about as illegitimate a state as you can get.
Also, your concept of future and past are baggage-laden and carry all kinds of concepts of progress and retrogression that aren't really there.
This crosses tribal, ethnic, and city/village concerns.
It may to you, because shit will get hot for you if it doesn't. The people there have their own concerns.
Western products have flooded into Pakistan, children are being raised with contradictions between ready available technology and their very own beliefs and self-image.
Multivalued reasoning is the norm in humans. You're not going to convince them of the validity of the Enlightenment with a DVD player. Did it work on Sarah Palin, or does she watch fundie DVDs with her fundie fanatic family and never ask how this complex technology challenges her doctrine of simple-minded biblical creationism? Why then would it be otherwise elsewhere?
They are ready to be a contender on the world stage if they can forge an identity that overtakes what separates them. My two cents.
IMO, a state system where the world's surface is totally populated by contiguous centrally administered nation-states is a fading memory.
The people of Pakistan don't have any duty to form a sense of identity based on the fact that British mandarins deported them all to the newly-minted purple place on the map, nor do I think you should expect it.
What is there to believe in? Kleptocracy, men with guns and uniforms and the Yankee dollar keeping it all afloat?
Again, I think I would call these "houses", not "homes".>/i>
Nemo,
How dare you call someone's sh%t shack a house. Them be assets. And I'm sure they will count for more than the market says they are currently worth in the (dis)stress tests too. It's all about the future.
Gavshire, Q: What happens when the people receiving redistributions of wealth grow larger than those providing it?
A: A vicious feedback loop that rewards the irresponsible at the expense of the responsible; impairs output.
A #2: Count the votes, slavery is reintroduced by the majority, the irresponsible win...until...the producers leave, and don't think it can't and won't happen. More and more of my colleagues live overseas and have started businesses. They actually get to keep most of what they earn. One has set up a business in Beijing, one in Macau, one is Singapore and finally one in Chile. Ask the french what happends to growth when you try to confiscate earnings. No growth and a dying demographic.
It's a fair assumption, but it's Victorville. Really. People commute form Balt to DC and it can work. Not so much from Victorville to LA. Not so many jobs in the Apple Valley, or up a ways to Barstow, the metropolis of the mojave.
"all I am saying is that should the extremists get their hands on the nukes they have multiple axes to grind. And that I think that the masses in Pakistan see India as more of a direct threat than the USA.
Our military is worn down from years of war and the SecState and Holbrooke are implying that we should prepare to invade Pakistan to secure the nukes? "
You mean with that US army which did this: "B-52 Bomber Accidentally Armed With 6 Nuclear Cruise Missiles" and lost BILLIONS of dollars worth of cash in Iraq. Contrary to the popular believe, in Pakistan (and India) it is a great honour to a soldier to serve in their nuclear missile forces unlike in the US where it is a dumping ground for the third grade generals and other dead-enders.
Duffield, Mark. "Social Reconstruction and the Radicalization of Development: Aid as a Relation of Gobal Liberal Governance". State Failure, Collapse and Reconstruction. Milliken, Jennifer Ed. Blackwell Publishing. Malden, MA. ISBN 1-4051-0536-4.
This is a good reader. The Clapham article at the beginning, "The Challenge to the State in a Globalized World" is also really good.
Here's a neat little tool which is being used to ream the shorts... It allows you to jump in on the squeeze du jour. Who cares if it is going to destroy the market as a place of investment? We can temporarily make money on momentum!!
@broward: "isn't that what the Federal Reserve and Govt' are doing?" Do you think so? Right now I see those seeking to build wealth through labor are now struggling to hang onto their jobs and their savings while their homes and investments depreciate. I see the foolish lenders and bondholders getting bailed out at nearly every turn. I don't think the incentives are tipping in the right direction.
I am much more worried about what will happen to US nukes after the economic collapse and soldiers getting warm handshakes as salaries. Plus most nukes are out there in the FlyOverStan with rightwingnutters all around, waiting for Jesus to show up and armed to the teeth....
"Insane" doesn't even begin to capture the sentiment. I don't know a word that would.
(Part of the problem with this whole financial system bust is that, expansive though it is, the English language doesn't seem to contain enough adjectives to do it justice.) "
when a foreclosed house is sold, is there any middleman commission?
If a large fraction of existing SFH sales are foreclosure transactions, then is anyone
earning the 3-6% sales commission on these?
If not, the crunch for the real estate income is much greater than gross existing sales numbers indicate.
1 currency now -yogi (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 3:30 pm
So Byz., who will lead the "Young Pakis"? The Bhuttos don't dodge bullets well. I trust they'll let them wear whatever they want, and choose the most sensible alphabet.
I don't think Pakistan is destined for that. They're more like a super-Palestine. A nonviable entity created for political purposes and eventually doomed to fail and tug some future pack of leaders into a crisis -- but not the current pack!
Sorry, I simply can't believe that there isn't a person who wouldn't be interested in getting one of those homes for the price of making it habitable.
I know Victorville, and I wouldn't want to live there and commute to LA, but it's a failure of imagination to say that there wouldn't be home based businesses that people could make a living with. We have so many homeless people, surely some of them have the initiative to get a fair start.
It's still a criminal waste to bulldoze those houses.
Interesting Byz. That looks pretty powerful. The days of investment are temporarily suspended. All that's left is speculative trading with the pertinent information at your fingertips. I wonder how that will end?
timmyone (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 3:41 pm
I am much more worried about what will happen to US nukes after the economic collapse and soldiers getting warm handshakes as salaries. Plus most nukes are out there in the FlyOverStan with rightwingnutters all around, waiting for Jesus to show up and armed to the teeth....
We'll probably export them like crazy, just like the Russians did. Whatever, the nuclear genie is out of the bottle now, guys. Might as well just learn to love the bomb, everyone has it, and if they don't but want it, they'll have it soon. The lapse of the US empire is the end of what remains of the nonproliferation regime.
Yeah, thanks. Building back in anonymity is important to a currency relying on transparency and traceability, though a secondary concern. I am not seeking a tax-avoiding barter system, of course, but a printing/inflation-avoiding reliable store of value.
I know Victorville, and I wouldn't want to live there and commute to LA, but it's a failure of imagination to say that there wouldn't be home based businesses that people could make a living with.
Oh I think there is a home based business or two that could make it out there - that was one of things everyone was scared of.
It seems very strange to see the word "haircut" used in a NYFed table. I can't wait to see the word haircut in my next 401K statement from Fidelity.
For ABS benefitting from a substantial government guarantee with average lives beyond five years, haircuts will increase by one percentage point for every two additional years of average life beyond five years. For all other ABS with average lives beyond five years, haircuts will increase by one percentage point for each additional year of average life beyond five years.
1 currency now -yogi (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 3:50 pm
Yeah, thanks.
I just saw they were using a token handling mechanism and I remembered you had wanted to have something like that. I'm not really into your quixotic quest, I just think it's fun to watch you go at it and wouldn't want you to miss any important developments. =)
Was waiting for your response. You didn't disappoint. All valid. As I mentioned before I am an absent minded philosopher. I can't accept your future for Pakistan as a new Palestine, though I will admit the odds are not on my side. The people have a gift for mathematics and a desire to prove themselves. Just need a leader. Thanks for the reader.
hopeinsd, good points all; but most cities are hungry for additional tax base, and will work with developers to get nearly-finished houses finished, sold, and producing taxes. The vagueness as to the nature of the fatal "code violation", as well as the rapidity at which everyone here folded up their chairs and went home, is curious. Hard to believe a donation of the site to Habitat for Humanity, at least, gaining a tax writeoff, wouldn't have cost less.
Maybe I'm just paranoid! (OK, no maybe about it.)
BTW, here is the website of Matthews Homes, the original builder. Click on "Our Communities" to see a map of every main bubble market in the far Southwest. Click on "Coming Soon" to see... well, nothing appears to be coming soon. Click on "Land Sales" to see what, in better times, might have been Coming Soon. They appear to have their own preferred home loan arm ("Premier Home Loans, a Matthews Company"), with a far-too-chummy slogan ("We're always looking out for your best interests"), always a bad sign. Worth watching if mysterious, unexplained, "code violations" cause sudden bulldozing in any of their other developments...
Some friends of mine are finishing an excellent documentary on Hashim Khan, an early "national hero" of Pakistan, beating the British at their own game, a gentleman on and off the squash court. The fact is there have been many Pakistani champions that followed him, but not one from India, Bangladesh, or Afghanistan.
Pakistani authorities were mifffed when he moved to the US, so they asked him to come home. He said, give me 64 acres and I'll come. They gave him 24. "So I sold it", he says with a sly laugh. Still a hero when he goes back to Peshawar, but national pride does not prevent him from sticking it to the new boss, no matter the flag.
hopeinsd, I think you've got the idea on why they were torn down, especially your #1.
For some reason the city let the developer start building houses before the improvements were done.
The fees generally have to be paid before a permit is issued . . . unless they are bonded . . . and then, if the bonding company fails, well, everyone is a loser.
Meanwhile the City of Victorville itself is bankrupt. It just hasn't filed its Chapter 9 yet.
Hesperia and Victorville look to be commuting distance to a good chunk of the San Bernardino valley
there is quite a lot there, or was.
Also a straight shot to Palmdale.
Notice some very islamic looking folks who are protesting against the Taliban, normally only the Westernized Pakistanis would do that. Not all is lost there
Good trend, demolishing these unsellable eyesores.
Looks like the beginning of a new WPA: give the unemployable realtors, bankers, and former Sharper Image salesmen axes and shovels, and let them tear down the McMansions.
Bulldozing new houses is obscenity of the highest degree. As if we do not waste enough natural resources and energy already. It makes me ill just thinking about it.
Anyone that bulldozes houses to keep supply down should be penalized severely. Give them away to the government, yes, bulldoze, NO.
If these houses really are in the middle of nowhere, can;t they then be used as halfway-houses or something else useful? Or vacation homes? Or any number of other purposes. Sell them for $5k and people will come.
Real "green" and "eco-friendly". Why not donate it to habitat for humanity, salvation army, hell, even ACORN for all I care?
Thank you for saying that. Big LULZ for you.
I can see it now, shallow Wall St MBAs using the workweek to plan bulldozing of homes, then volunteering for Habitat for Humanity to build houses for the poor on the weekend. I hate those HFH PR-stunt that every goddamn B-school student is partaking in. They should just call it Insincerity101 and be done with it.
Just saw on CNN..
Again, I think I would call these "houses", not "homes".
If the means justify the end, is it a Homeicide?
The houses were already trashed by squatters and the city was giving the bank code violation notices and daily fines, and threatening the bank officers with criminal prosecution.... Bank sends in the crushers and everyone declares victory... There might be a few slabs left in place... nice overnight spot for the rv....
How can reducing supply stabilize or increase prices if the customer cannot afford it or is too scared to buy?
Home-icide
Q: Why is money/credit valuable?
A: Because people will work for it.
Q: What happens when the underlying currency/credit is in question?
A: Fewer people want it, labor is cheapened, and output goes down.
Q: If it is an allocation problem, can we fix it by redistributing wealth more efficiently?
A: Sure, but it is demotivating to the people that are working.
Q: What happens when the people receiving redistributions of wealth grow larger than those providing it?
A: A vicious feedback loop that rewards the irresponsible at the expense of the responsible; impairs output.
Q: Can we print enough money to solve the balance sheet problem?
A: Sure, but it won't do any good; loss of value/confidence is as great or greater than the output hole "filled"
Guaranty Bank of Austin is wrecking the structures to provide a "safe environment" for neighbors
Doggonit, banks are so thoughtful and kind.
So will the taxpayer come out ahead by holding the dust to maturity?
..but I still don't get it. With all the out-of-work contractors, couldn't they finish these cheap and unload for $100k? Is Victorville really that bad?
Actually, I just checked. At $66/sf, maybe it is that bad.
If a house falls in the desert, does the bank still have it on its books @ $400k?
The irony will be when this bank goes bust--will the FDIC pay to knock down the derelict branches?
Guaranty Bank uses 'significant judgment' to mark these demolished houses as ???
Some banker booked a bonus buying those bulldozed houses at foreclosure, I Guaranty it.
So what would the banks record as the loss, or is this an improvement that they can mark up on their balance sheet?
The loan is probably worth 99 cents on the dollar don't you think.
Dead shtick,
Did you read?--85 miles northeast of LA. yes. it's that bad. By my calculation that's a 3 hour commute to any job center, one-way.
--bh
OT but Arianna Huffington does a nice job of skewering the sway that Wall Street holds over our government:
Arianna Huffington: The Stress Tests Fail The Smell Test
overbuilt RRE is shovel ready
Banks afraid of sue-a-side, committing home-icide
Ah, Guaranty Bank, where my cousin was previously in CRE lending. Wasn't surprised to hear he left, but he ended up joining his dad in putting up extended stay/suite hotels in Texas. Hopefully, that turns out ok.
Byzantine_Ruins,
Nation-state as unitary actor / "national concensus" paradigm specious almost always, even in nation states, definitely not applicable to Pakistan.
Wasn't speaking of unitary actor role. How to put this...Pakistan as a nation has reached a point whether to embrace the future or look to the past. This crosses tribal, ethnic, and city/village concerns. Western products have flooded into Pakistan, children are being raised with contradictions between ready available technology and their very own beliefs and self-image. Islam is at the root, but it is almost an abstraction to a degree. And then you have India as a neighbor. The majority of people in Pakistan are not fanatics. They are ready to be a contender on the world stage if they can forge an identity that overtakes what separates them. My two cents.
@Shadow... "chance that the mortgage holder will come after you for the deficiency balance"
Yes, that's a concern, should things play out that way. Fortunately it looks as though a purchase-money mortgage in California is non-recourse. Evidently refi mortgages may be recourse loans. We may refi in June and that will be a significant issue.
Foreclosures and the next wave: taxes due on canceled debt
In California, purchase money mortgages, which are mortgages where the borrowed funds are used to purchase the house, are generally treated as non-recourse debt. If the bank forecloses on a non-recourse mortgage, then the homeowner is treated as having sold the home for the amount of the outstanding debt. The difference between the outstanding debt and the homeowner's adjusted basis in the house is considered a gain or loss on the sale of the home. If the home is the taxpayer's principal residence, where they have lived for at least two of the past five years, the gain may be eligible for the gain exclusion on the sale of a principal residence. If the foreclosure results in a loss, the loss may not be taken since it resulted from the sale of a principal residence.
If the mortgage is recourse, such as a non-purchase money mortgage or a refinanced mortgage, any foreclosure may result in a gain on the sale of the house, and/or cancellation of debt income. The difference between the fair market value of the house and the homeowner's adjusted basis will result in a gain or loss on the sale of the home. To the extent the outstanding debt exceeds the fair market value of the house, the amount is treated as cancellation of debt income. Any gain on the portion treated as the sale of a personal residence may be eligible for the exclusion on the sale of a principal residence; however, as discussed above, the loss may not be taken on the sale. The portion that is treated as cancellation of debt income is taxed as ordinary income - subject to ordinary income tax rates. Your clients with canceled or forgiven mortgage debts may receive a Form 1099-C from the lender and will be expected to pay federal and state tax on the canceled amounts, at the ordinary income tax rate.
Guaranty Bank of Austin is wrecking the structures to provide a "safe environment" for neighbors of the abandoned housing tract in Victorville, a high-desert city about 85 miles northeast of Los Angeles, a bank spokesman said.
This tremendous waste of money from the public purse is for ALL OUR SECURITY. Why do you hate America? Don't you see this is for EVERYONE'S SECURITY, just like the Patriot Act that Obama still hasn't done anything about? You people just don't understand the financial system, clearly.
"Q: If it is an allocation problem, can we fix it by redistributing wealth more efficiently?
A: Sure, but it is demotivating to the people that are working."
Of course, the fallacy of this argument is that wealth == work., that the holders of wealth are wrokers.
Starbucks eliminated Fizzie drinks. Apparently Starbucks believes that I am too stupid to figure out that they're trying to force me to buy higher margin products. Starbucks, like McDonald's, has now entered my avoidance zone.
Doesn't anyone else see the criminal waste in Guaranty Bank's actions?
They couldn't donate the houses to Habitat for Humanity?
I'm not saying I want to see an India-Pakistan war; all I am saying is that should the extremists get their hands on the nukes they have multiple axes to grind. And that I think that the masses in Pakistan see India as more of a direct threat than the USA.
Our military is worn down from years of war and the SecState and Holbrooke are implying that we should prepare to invade Pakistan to secure the nukes? That would be a costly proposition, to say the least. It won't get done by teams of SpecOps and Predator strikes.
ok I'll rephrase:
A: It is demotivating to the holders of wealth who have it redistributed; diminishes the value of acquiring wealth via labor.
Victorville is lucky the bank hadn't been seized, because the FDIC sure as hell wouldn't be paying any fines. Tax/penalty liens the city may have placed on the properties would have quickly exceeded any remaining value, in which case Victorville itself would have become the proud new owners. Then they would have had spend the money to tear down the structures, fence off the area, cut off all utilities and ultimately stop providing police patrols. Of course, when the city itself goes BK, then we ultimately get a MadMax like ghost town such as is appearing in & around Detroit.
"They couldn't donate the houses "
I think, as someone mentioned, that no one wants to live in them at any price, except coyotes and rattlesnakes.
humanitarian gestures didn't pencil out for Guaranty Bank
blackhat-- I know the location. But hey, a couple of Wal-Mart jobs ought to be able to swing payments at these prices.
What's a Texas bank doing with a hellwhole in Cali?
Aren't there enough back home?
I'm not saying I want to see an India-Pakistan war; all I am saying is that should the extremists get their hands on the nukes they have multiple axes to grind. And that I think that the masses in Pakistan see India as more of a direct threat than the USA.
Our military is worn down from years of war and the SecState and Holbrooke are implying that we should prepare to invade Pakistan to secure the nukes? That would be a costly proposition, to say the least. It won't get done by teams of SpecOps and Predator strikes.
elmo's being persistent today
Charles Wheelan relays an anecdote in The Naked Economist about the Lada factories in the old Soviet Bloc, whose production quality was so shoddy that the sale value of a car rolling off one of their lines was less than the sum of the materials that went into its construction - never mind the labor.
I never thought I'd be witness to a more gross mis-allocation of capital in my lifetime.
Yet, somehow, we've managed to do the old Commies one better. We took perfectly good lumber and concrete, and thousands of man-hours of labor, and turned them into ... a series of structures with negative value.
"Insane" doesn't even begin to capture the sentiment. I don't know a word that would.
(Part of the problem with this whole financial system bust is that, expansive though it is, the English language doesn't seem to contain enough adjectives to do it justice.)
An interesting comment from Nassim Taleb at today's New Yorker Summit. He argues that even 1980s level of economy-wide debt are intolerable today, in part because of the Internet:
"We have to be a lot more careful going forward, because we have globalization, the internet, and operational efficiency — which cannot accommodate debt".
So why is it that Obama's economic team and Wall St are doing all they can to reflate the debt pool ???
"It is demotivating to the holders of wealth who have it redistributed; diminishes the value of acquiring wealth via labor."
Which leads us to the inevitable question -
"Why do I care what the holders of wealth think or desire?"
I heard the demolition team left the garden of tulips intact...
"Yet, somehow, we've managed to do the old Commies one better"
but think of all the fees earned and the lavish bonuses awarded to the banksters prior to the whole enterprise going TU
@Gavshire "It is demotivating to the holders of wealth who have it redistributed; diminishes the value of acquiring wealth via labor."
Agreed. The trick is that the redistribution must take place gradually, by making it easier for those who seek to acquire wealth by labor to do so, and to make it more difficult for holders of wealth to preserve it without labor.
One fix that would go in the right direction would be to reinstate a meaningful inheritance taxation system.
BTW, there can be useful and productive labor involved in identifying true "investments", in the classic sense of what really offers security of principal and a reasonable rate of return.
A second fix would be tightening up the regulation of the financial system so that the incentives were properly tilted in favor of these productive investments and away from the fraud and scamming speculations that dominate the current system.
Something doesn't smell right about the reasons for the demolitions here.
First, the bank claims it's for "the good of the neighbors". WHAT neighbors? And since when has a bank done what is good?
Second, the numbers don't pencil out. From the WSJ: four of the 16 structures slated for demolition were "substantially complete," [...] and ""A Guaranty official based in California told the Victorville newspaper, the Daily Press, that it would cost more than $1 million to finish developing the property so it could be occupied... A demolition job of this size would likely cost more than $100,000...". Are they claiming they couldn't sell 16 homes and recoup more than $900,000+land value? Or at least sell the 4 finished homes??
There's some more insidious reason these homes had to be torn down. Chinese drywall? Indian burial ground? No water rights? Your guess is as good as mine, but it wasn't for the good of the neighbors, natch.
Vonbek777
As a Pakistani, I concur wholeheartedly. The problem is that Pakistan never had an identity to begin with, other than loose definition as a state for the sub-continent's Muslims. Even that when doesn't hold after 1971.
The rest of the story regarding Libor, TED and the true state of the US credit markets
Zero Hedge: Of Fingers And Dikes
No, they just label all the squatters vandals and crackheads and avoid moral duty. Perhaps they couldn't let the "good neighbors" see people enjoying their houses for less.
DCRogers,
My guess is the tri-annual dark-portal that appears in the middle of the granite counter-top, where if you are not careful, evil sub-world creatures can released and we all know what havoc they can unleash...so best to knock the whole thing down.
--bh
"They couldn't donate the houses "
They could have donated them to the NACAGO - Nat'l Association of Cookers and Grow Ops...
they can do whatever they want with those houses. this is a necessity in order to build a better mcmansion. bring the family!
@Mook: "Part of the problem with this whole financial system bust is that, expansive though it is, the English language doesn't seem to contain enough adjectives to do it justice"
Amen to that. Unfortunately we've also experienced and tolerated a lot of language inflation. The hype-media overused the extreme terms to the point where they don't convey extreme meanings anymore.
Fortunately we can invent new terms as needed ("bando"?), but that takes time and labor and does not come without cost.
So Byz., who will lead the "Young Pakis"? The Bhuttos don't dodge bullets well. I trust they'll let them wear whatever they want, and choose the most sensible alphabet.
Weeks prior to the partitioning of India, Montbatten told Jinnah that he, Montbatten would be the gov. general of both India and Pakistan post partition. Jinnah replied with "no you won't" An infuriated Montbatten told Jinnah his remarks may well cost Pakistan everything. The Brits set Pakistan up to fail as long as it didn't happen on their watch
CSM has a story on Pakistan out today:
Next Taliban conquest? A view from Pakistan's frontline
CNBC did a 2 hour special called "House of Cards" on the mortgage blowup... if you havent seen it yet watch for a rerun - it was a terrific show - covered everything from the construction all the way up to some people in Norway who bought some of the CDO's and then had a big loss too...
One quote from the show that I remember - one of the mortgage brokers said that when he told an applicant that they got the loan and they signed all the papers, no one was crying - everyone was happy...
At the loanowner level, those people exhibited a remarkable lack of knowledge of finance and economics... some of them were probably totally illiterate... but they went ahead thinking that they were going to get rich in real estate by selling that house even higher....
I wonder how the construction workers, who put those houses up, feel about having their hard work destroyed by pansy hand bankers.
" The trick is that the redistribution must take place gradually, by making it easier for those who seek to acquire wealth by labor to do so, and to make it more difficult for holders of wealth to preserve it without labor"
isn't that what the Federal Reserve and Govt' are doing?
I like that the demoltion is turning into a mysterious conspiracy.
Was it drywall? Can we get some flu blame going here?
There are several houses condemned and being demolished here for a new on-ramp. Is it possible that the owners of those properties owe too much and coincidently are friends with the zoning commissioner?!
I suspect it has been discussed in prior threads on this, but some non-insidious reasons they would bulldoze;
1. expensive public improvements needed before occupancy would be allowed- such as area streets, stop lights, sidewalks, etc.
2. high fees that need to be paid before occupancy- sewer/water connection fees, school impact fees, park fees (can total $30-50,000 per house in many CA cities)
3. Fines imposed by the city/county that would need to be paid before occupancy. This is becoming a revenue source for many cites in CA, who can impose up to $1,000 a day in fines for code violations.
4. property taxes to be paid on the "improvements"- billed to the developer until each unit is sold.
5. High security costs at building site until most of the properties are sold, given that thieves have been there already.
And no matter how low they price those houses, some nearly as new foreclosure down the street will price itself lower. The supply of new foreclosures out there is almost limitless.
Speed said: "I think, as someone mentioned, that no one wants to live in them at any price, except coyotes and rattlesnakes. "
My reply: When I was growing up in Baltimore, the city was selling derelict homes in a bombed out neighborhood for $1 if you would promise to fix them and live in them. It was a very successful program.
By the way, that bombed out neighborhood is in the Inner Harbor of Baltimore, and now is a very desirable place to live with condominiums going for $500K-$1.5MM.
Don't assume that no one wants to live in them at any price.
"It is demotivating to the holders of wealth who have it redistributed; diminishes the value of acquiring wealth via labor."
If the holders of wealth are working to finance projects like this then maybe their demotivation would be a net benefit.
Wasn't speaking of unitary actor role. How to put this...Pakistan as a nation has reached a point whether to embrace the future or look to the past.
Allow me to bust my postmodern move.
Assigning responsibilities, goals, etc to a large group like a nation, tribal people, region, etc -- these speak mostly of the needs of the person doing the assignment. The group will be ambigious, and the statements will apply poorly, if at all, to the complex and confusing reality. However, they will be 100% representative of the worldview and motivations of the person doing the talking, although they may be duplicitous or self-deceived. This is especially true for Pakistan, which is about as illegitimate a state as you can get.
Also, your concept of future and past are baggage-laden and carry all kinds of concepts of progress and retrogression that aren't really there.
This crosses tribal, ethnic, and city/village concerns.
It may to you, because shit will get hot for you if it doesn't. The people there have their own concerns.
Western products have flooded into Pakistan, children are being raised with contradictions between ready available technology and their very own beliefs and self-image.
Multivalued reasoning is the norm in humans. You're not going to convince them of the validity of the Enlightenment with a DVD player. Did it work on Sarah Palin, or does she watch fundie DVDs with her fundie fanatic family and never ask how this complex technology challenges her doctrine of simple-minded biblical creationism? Why then would it be otherwise elsewhere?
They are ready to be a contender on the world stage if they can forge an identity that overtakes what separates them. My two cents.
IMO, a state system where the world's surface is totally populated by contiguous centrally administered nation-states is a fading memory.
The people of Pakistan don't have any duty to form a sense of identity based on the fact that British mandarins deported them all to the newly-minted purple place on the map, nor do I think you should expect it.
What is there to believe in? Kleptocracy, men with guns and uniforms and the Yankee dollar keeping it all afloat?
Again, I think I would call these "houses", not "homes".>/i>
Nemo,
How dare you call someone's sh%t shack a house. Them be assets. And I'm sure they will count for more than the market says they are currently worth in the (dis)stress tests too. It's all about the future.
How is this better than giving the houses to the city at zero?
Gavshire, Q: What happens when the people receiving redistributions of wealth grow larger than those providing it?
A: A vicious feedback loop that rewards the irresponsible at the expense of the responsible; impairs output.
A #2: Count the votes, slavery is reintroduced by the majority, the irresponsible win...until...the producers leave, and don't think it can't and won't happen. More and more of my colleagues live overseas and have started businesses. They actually get to keep most of what they earn. One has set up a business in Beijing, one in Macau, one is Singapore and finally one in Chile. Ask the french what happends to growth when you try to confiscate earnings. No growth and a dying demographic.
MR,
It's a fair assumption, but it's Victorville. Really. People commute form Balt to DC and it can work. Not so much from Victorville to LA. Not so many jobs in the Apple Valley, or up a ways to Barstow, the metropolis of the mojave.
--bh
Bulldozing. What an interesting idea....
when you see the green "applause" sign start clapping and continue until the light goes out.
"all I am saying is that should the extremists get their hands on the nukes they have multiple axes to grind. And that I think that the masses in Pakistan see India as more of a direct threat than the USA.
Our military is worn down from years of war and the SecState and Holbrooke are implying that we should prepare to invade Pakistan to secure the nukes? "
You mean with that US army which did this: "B-52 Bomber Accidentally Armed With 6 Nuclear Cruise Missiles" and lost BILLIONS of dollars worth of cash in Iraq. Contrary to the popular believe, in Pakistan (and India) it is a great honour to a soldier to serve in their nuclear missile forces unlike in the US where it is a dumping ground for the third grade generals and other dead-enders.
If I can recommend an article,
Duffield, Mark. "Social Reconstruction and the Radicalization of Development: Aid as a Relation of Gobal Liberal Governance". State Failure, Collapse and Reconstruction. Milliken, Jennifer Ed. Blackwell Publishing. Malden, MA. ISBN 1-4051-0536-4.
This is a good reader. The Clapham article at the beginning, "The Challenge to the State in a Globalized World" is also really good.
Here's a neat little tool which is being used to ream the shorts... It allows you to jump in on the squeeze du jour. Who cares if it is going to destroy the market as a place of investment? We can temporarily make money on momentum!!
3D Map Heatmap 12/7/2009
I wonder how the construction workers, who put those houses up, feel about having their hard work destroyed by pansy hand bankers.
Pissed - they are now laid off and would have gladly done it for a pay check.
@broward: "isn't that what the Federal Reserve and Govt' are doing?" Do you think so? Right now I see those seeking to build wealth through labor are now struggling to hang onto their jobs and their savings while their homes and investments depreciate. I see the foolish lenders and bondholders getting bailed out at nearly every turn. I don't think the incentives are tipping in the right direction.
Gavshire:
You may find this interesting.
Newsmap
I am much more worried about what will happen to US nukes after the economic collapse and soldiers getting warm handshakes as salaries. Plus most nukes are out there in the FlyOverStan with rightwingnutters all around, waiting for Jesus to show up and armed to the teeth....
mook said,
"Insane" doesn't even begin to capture the sentiment. I don't know a word that would.
(Part of the problem with this whole financial system bust is that, expansive though it is, the English language doesn't seem to contain enough adjectives to do it justice.) "
mook is speechless.
Stoopid question for people:
when a foreclosed house is sold, is there any middleman commission?
If a large fraction of existing SFH sales are foreclosure transactions, then is anyone
earning the 3-6% sales commission on these?
If not, the crunch for the real estate income is much greater than gross existing sales numbers indicate.
1 currency now -yogi (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 3:30 pm
So Byz., who will lead the "Young Pakis"? The Bhuttos don't dodge bullets well. I trust they'll let them wear whatever they want, and choose the most sensible alphabet.
I don't think Pakistan is destined for that. They're more like a super-Palestine. A nonviable entity created for political purposes and eventually doomed to fail and tug some future pack of leaders into a crisis -- but not the current pack!
Oh, Yogi, did you get this link I left for you?
Anonymous internet banking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
.
.
.
x. Bulldozing creates jobs.
Sorry, I simply can't believe that there isn't a person who wouldn't be interested in getting one of those homes for the price of making it habitable.
I know Victorville, and I wouldn't want to live there and commute to LA, but it's a failure of imagination to say that there wouldn't be home based businesses that people could make a living with. We have so many homeless people, surely some of them have the initiative to get a fair start.
It's still a criminal waste to bulldoze those houses.
Hey, just checked my stock screen, and there are green shoots all over the place!
Interesting Byz. That looks pretty powerful. The days of investment are temporarily suspended. All that's left is speculative trading with the pertinent information at your fingertips. I wonder how that will end?
timmyone (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 3:41 pm
I am much more worried about what will happen to US nukes after the economic collapse and soldiers getting warm handshakes as salaries. Plus most nukes are out there in the FlyOverStan with rightwingnutters all around, waiting for Jesus to show up and armed to the teeth....
We'll probably export them like crazy, just like the Russians did. Whatever, the nuclear genie is out of the bottle now, guys. Might as well just learn to love the bomb, everyone has it, and if they don't but want it, they'll have it soon. The lapse of the US empire is the end of what remains of the nonproliferation regime.
Yeah, thanks. Building back in anonymity is important to a currency relying on transparency and traceability, though a secondary concern. I am not seeking a tax-avoiding barter system, of course, but a printing/inflation-avoiding reliable store of value.
I know Victorville, and I wouldn't want to live there and commute to LA, but it's a failure of imagination to say that there wouldn't be home based businesses that people could make a living with.
Oh I think there is a home based business or two that could make it out there - that was one of things everyone was scared of.
Slightly OT:
It seems very strange to see the word "haircut" used in a NYFed table. I can't wait to see the word haircut in my next 401K statement from Fidelity.
For ABS benefitting from a substantial government guarantee with average lives beyond five years, haircuts will increase by one percentage point for every two additional years of average life beyond five years. For all other ABS with average lives beyond five years, haircuts will increase by one percentage point for each additional year of average life beyond five years.
"What is there to believe in? Kleptocracy, men with guns and uniforms and the Yankee dollar keeping it all afloat?"
It's working okay for the U.S. so far.
Gavshire Hathaway (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 3:48 pm
Interesting Byz. That looks pretty powerful.
I sure get a lot of mileage out of it. =)
take-a-name-asswipe...your link from zero hedge @ 12:25, gets at the truth,
yeah the credit spread in the private sectors untouched by fed intervention tell quite a sobering story
it aint mo better...not even a bit
1 currency now -yogi (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 3:50 pm
Yeah, thanks.
I just saw they were using a token handling mechanism and I remembered you had wanted to have something like that. I'm not really into your quixotic quest, I just think it's fun to watch you go at it and wouldn't want you to miss any important developments. =)
broward (homepage, profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 3:53 pm
It's working okay for the U.S. so far.
Is this "working okay"? I'm glad you told me, I'd never have guessed.
Yes dryfly--I'm thinking independant chemists and herbal horticultaralists...
--bh
Byzantine_Ruins,
Was waiting for your response. You didn't disappoint. All valid. As I mentioned before I am an absent minded philosopher. I can't accept your future for Pakistan as a new Palestine, though I will admit the odds are not on my side. The people have a gift for mathematics and a desire to prove themselves. Just need a leader. Thanks for the reader.
"I see the foolish lenders and bondholders getting bailed out "
Are they?
Is Henry Paulson keeping his $500 million in negative return treasuries?
Or perhaps in negative return real estate?
Negative return currency?
hopeinsd, good points all; but most cities are hungry for additional tax base, and will work with developers to get nearly-finished houses finished, sold, and producing taxes. The vagueness as to the nature of the fatal "code violation", as well as the rapidity at which everyone here folded up their chairs and went home, is curious. Hard to believe a donation of the site to Habitat for Humanity, at least, gaining a tax writeoff, wouldn't have cost less.
Maybe I'm just paranoid! (OK, no maybe about it.)
BTW, here is the website of Matthews Homes, the original builder. Click on "Our Communities" to see a map of every main bubble market in the far Southwest. Click on "Coming Soon" to see... well, nothing appears to be coming soon. Click on "Land Sales" to see what, in better times, might have been Coming Soon. They appear to have their own preferred home loan arm ("Premier Home Loans, a Matthews Company"), with a far-too-chummy slogan ("We're always looking out for your best interests"), always a bad sign. Worth watching if mysterious, unexplained, "code violations" cause sudden bulldozing in any of their other developments...
"Is this "working okay"? I'm glad you told me, I'd never have guessed."
I did add that caveat of "so far".
Sure it's working. I still have heat, water and stale Starbucks cookies.
Some friends of mine are finishing an excellent documentary on Hashim Khan, an early "national hero" of Pakistan, beating the British at their own game, a gentleman on and off the squash court. The fact is there have been many Pakistani champions that followed him, but not one from India, Bangladesh, or Afghanistan.
Pakistani authorities were mifffed when he moved to the US, so they asked him to come home. He said, give me 64 acres and I'll come. They gave him 24. "So I sold it", he says with a sly laugh. Still a hero when he goes back to Peshawar, but national pride does not prevent him from sticking it to the new boss, no matter the flag.
hopeinsd, I think you've got the idea on why they were torn down, especially your #1.
For some reason the city let the developer start building houses before the improvements were done.
The fees generally have to be paid before a permit is issued . . . unless they are bonded . . . and then, if the bonding company fails, well, everyone is a loser.
Meanwhile the City of Victorville itself is bankrupt. It just hasn't filed its Chapter 9 yet.
. . . Barstow, the metropolis of the mojave.
Funny thing is Barstow hasn't grown in 30 years. The same 22,000 people live there.
Victorville's current estimated population is 109,000.
Even Hesperia is close to 90,000.
Apple Valley is stagnant at 60,000.
Adelanto is around 28,000.
Those ARE the five incorporated areas in the High Desert of San Bernardino County.
Hesperia and Victorville look to be commuting distance to a good chunk of the San Bernardino valley
there is quite a lot there, or was.
Also a straight shot to Palmdale.
At least the prison's hiring until Sacto goes TU on June 30
some interesting pics of Pak: http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Pakistan-Peshawar2C-Pakistan/photo//090504/481/32a40b58627b4c66a73e891a6959dd05/#photoViewer=/090504/ids_photos_ts/r892240725.jpg
Notice some very islamic looking folks who are protesting against the Taliban, normally only the Westernized Pakistanis would do that. Not all is lost there
Good trend, demolishing these unsellable eyesores.
Looks like the beginning of a new WPA: give the unemployable realtors, bankers, and former Sharper Image salesmen axes and shovels, and let them tear down the McMansions.
Bulldozing new houses is obscenity of the highest degree. As if we do not waste enough natural resources and energy already. It makes me ill just thinking about it.
Anyone that bulldozes houses to keep supply down should be penalized severely. Give them away to the government, yes, bulldoze, NO.
If these houses really are in the middle of nowhere, can;t they then be used as halfway-houses or something else useful? Or vacation homes? Or any number of other purposes. Sell them for $5k and people will come.
All the more reason for the world to hate Americans.
Real "green" and "eco-friendly". Why not donate it to habitat for humanity, salvation army, hell, even ACORN for all I care?
Wasteful. Selfish. Short-sighted. Manipulative. Disgusting.
Everything ugly American.
@real estate check,
Real "green" and "eco-friendly". Why not donate it to habitat for humanity, salvation army, hell, even ACORN for all I care?
Thank you for saying that. Big LULZ for you.
I can see it now, shallow Wall St MBAs using the workweek to plan bulldozing of homes, then volunteering for Habitat for Humanity to build houses for the poor on the weekend. I hate those HFH PR-stunt that every goddamn B-school student is partaking in. They should just call it Insincerity101 and be done with it.
@real estate check,
Tongue in cheek response: What?? Help the poor?? What the hell are you, a communist or something?