The United States once stood for something, something very special, it was unique and it commanded a reverence that was unlike anything in the world that has ever been before. I fear that the time has past for saving our great republic from the ruins of time.
well, we can only hope that the esteemed institution which brought us Dred Scott and Bush v. Gore can once again illuminate the complexities of the time with their unique brand of perspicacity.
FTA: Chrysler's opening memorandum of law, however, does not address the important question of why, absent the consent of the dissident lenders, 65% of the equity in New Chrysler should go to junior creditors in satisfaction of their respective claims against Old Chrysler while the claims of senior dissenting lenders go unpaid?
Exactly! Also, the "Howard Delivery Serv., Inc. v. Zurich American Ins. Co." case-law certainly does not favor Chrysler-Administration. It's awesome how we can link to a 1913 NYT article online as well...
From the Creditors PDF file: The Treasury Department relies on TARP as the purported authority to justify the disparate treatment under the 363 Sale, even though TARP was enacted after the Senior Lenders’ liens on the Debtors’ property were already in place. The Supreme Court long ago recognized, however, that a secured creditor’s interest in specific property is protected in bankruptcy under the Fifth Amendment. Louisville Joint Stock Land Bank v. Radford, 295 U.S. 555, 594 (1935). That case involved a Depression-era statute that was intended to help bankrupt farmers avoid losing their land in mortgage foreclosure. The statute in Radford provided that the bankrupt debtor could achieve a release of the security interests either (i) with the lender’s consent, purchasing the property at its then appraised value by making deferred payments for two to six years at statutorily-set interest rates; or (ii) by seeking from the bankruptcy court a stay of the proceedings for up to five years during which time the debtor could use the property by paying a rent set by the court, which payments would be for the benefit of all creditors, with a purchase option at the end of that period. Id. at 856-57.
Just one small snippet... I'm sure you can find it online as my source was a political blog and didn't want to open that can-o-worms...
My prediction: Congress will make a one-time law for this Chrysler (and maybe GM) and head for a show-down with the creditors to the Supreme Court... Why the eff not?
"A lot of these guys right now are just trying to survive," James Arrigo, the co-chairman of Chrysler's National Dealer Counsel said of the company's dealers at a hearing on Monday in U.S. bankruptcy court in Manhattan.
Arrigo, who is one of the company's top-ten selling dealers, according to court papers, says that even he has seen a drop off of about 50 percent in car sales this year.
I have a feeling that the BK process may not turn out to the swift surgical procedure the government wants. It may veer off into an unexpected outcome, leaving the prospect of a GM BK almost as scary as an AIG BK. In that case, I can see the Fed feeding tens of billions more into GM (by buying up its debt) until some kind of out of court arrangement can be made.
I can't see any way to avoid losing another half million jobs in the auto sector this year.
"leaving the prospect of a GM BK almost as scary as an AIG BK"
nonsense. GM only made commitments to hundreds of thousands of workers, not important things like gambling contracts with GS, JPM, etc... these flyover folks are worth less than nothing, let alone the half-trillion that folks like Dimon, Lay and Blankfein are worth, just as shining paragons of human virtue alone.
In 1926, the Loughead brothers incorporated their business in Nevada.
In 1929, their largest shareholder sold out to Detroit and the brothers resigned. Allan sold real estate and Malcolm started a business making the hydraulic brakes he'd invented.
By 1932, Malcolm was broke and ended up prospecting for gold the rest of his life. Allan moved to Tucson and became a real estate broker.
The Gross brothers, Bob and Courtland, bought the Loughead's business out of bankruptcy for $40,000. Allan wanted to do it, had raised $40,000 and was trying to raise $80,000, thinking that anything less than $80,000 would be an insult.
On Christmas Eve 1932, Carl Squier, the sales manager, withdrew all $3,000 of his savings and stood at the gate handing out $10 bills so that the employees, who were working on survival wages, could provide a Christmas for their families.
true.
I am skeptical your comments refer to Chrysler... perhaps if someplace like Tesla Motors were to go down and change hands... but your general point is true.
It has been more than twenty years, but some things are just forever...(I made a few little modifications to bring it up to the 21st century)
Citigroup, Mr. Cromwell, Citigroup has 33 different vice presidents each earning over 200 thousand dollars a year. Now, I have spent the last two months analyzing what all these guys do, and I still can't figure it out. One thing I do know is that our bank lost 110 million dollars last year, and I'll bet that half of that was spent in all the paperwork going back and forth between all these vice presidents.
The new law of evolution in corporate America seems to be survival of the unfittest. Well, in my book you either do it right or you get eliminated. In the last seven deals that I've been involved with, there were 2.5 million stockholders who have made a pretax profit of 12 billion dollars. Thank you. I am not a destroyer of companies. I am a liberator of them!
The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right, greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind.
And greed, you mark my words, will not only save Citigroup, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA. Thank you very much.
I anticipate thickets of friend of the court filings.
Precedent whether recent or hoary with age is operative, often undiluted.
It is time the judiciary became active.
I look forward to a great deal of ink spilt over balance of power.
These proceedings promise to present some real provocation if the courts come out swinging, as I think they may.
Tragedy of America, as it is hurling towards collapse of its econo-political system, is that highly intelligent men like Bernanke are bred to be dopes in the areas of economics, investments and political systems. Bernanke is also an economics moron who believes that he can control the behavior of hundreds of millions of consumers and millions of big and small businesses.
Needless to say, born-and-bred American dopes get sucked into the inflation camp readily. The worst of these dopes are “Printing Money” inflation dopes. They never understood what causes inflation and they never will as long as they keep the “Printing Money” myth going despite what has transpired over the past 9 months. Dopes never examine their premise even when they are proven wrong by evidence contrary to their assumptions.
OK, dopes, is the US economic and political system closer to Japan or Zimbabwe? Economics morons like Marc Faber, of course, think it is more like Zimbabwe. No wonder that Marc Faber and Jim Rogers are guiding lights of inflation dopes. Dopes, in general, suffer from the cult of personality.
You might also say that, at least some of the time, assets pass from one set of hands to another set of hands that know exactly how to use them.
Amen.
I wonder sometimes if people realize how many of the "perma-bears" here are industriously beavering away at what they know are the moneymaking opportunities of a lifetime.
burnside (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 6:33 am It is time the judiciary became active.
I look forward to a great deal of ink spilt over balance of power.
These proceedings promise to present some real provocation if the courts come out swinging, as I think they may.
I would really be so very happy if some branch of our state proved capable of action. I don't really care about the outcome, I just want it to be an actual proceeding, not some backroom wheeler-dealer operation where I'm pledged for thousands and tens of thousands of dollars personally because Hanktator will even go down on his knees to close a deal. There's a process for a reason.
--
"The fundamental purpose of corporate bankruptcy law is welfare for (wealth redistribution to) the capitalist class."
Yogi,
"The capitalist class" now consists primarily of bloodsucking parasites, e.g., Government Sucks. The control of the USG by these bloodsucking parasites means that we have a bloodsucking parasitic govt. How long do you think that such a govt would survive?
Jas: "The control of the USG by these bloodsucking parasites means that we have a bloodsucking parasitic govt. How long do you think that such a govt would survive?"
As long as they have the troops and all you have are tropes.
Bears need something to change their luck. In that spirit, I bring back this oldie but a goodie:
Hey kids, you'd better fill the tank up
Before the printing presses really start to crank up
They'll kill the fatted buck tonight, don't stick around
You're gonna hear the same old dreck from bubblevision clowns
Oh Janet and Lacker have you seen 'em yet?
Ben he looks all spaced out
You know they're in cahoots with Goldman suits
Your budget's blown out on bread and gasoline, oh
B-b-b-b Bennie and the Inkjets
On financial TV as well as on my property, especially, on the hillside. These green-shoots are all weeds. A born-and-bred American dope like Bernanke confuses the weeds with a crop. It doesn’t take much for a born-and-bred American dope to get excited about a positive outcome because he suffers from the congenital disease of optimitis.
That Barton Fink Feeling (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 7:15 am
As long as they have the troops and all you have are tropes.
Troops make you a warlord. Consent makes you a ruler. The state exists primarily in the minds of the governed. They long to believe in it, but their eyes will, in time, inform them of wanton rapine. A state nobody believes in is dead.
Byz, I don't think I have blinders on, in fact believe most or nearly all we'll see on balance of power will be complete and utter balls.
A few incidents in my memory show the courts as source for correction, the representative rediscovering its function in consequence. But I'm not taking odds. I hope Scalia is around for this one.
I think there is an important distinction between current UAW workers and retirees. The latter have a claim based on services already performed. If traditional rules give some other set of creditors higher priority, then something is wrong with those rules. Trying to maintain wage levels for work to be performed in the future, even if contractually specified, does not seem to me to have as strong a case.
I saw an argument made (I think by Floyd Norris) that the government has injected so much money into Chrysler that what is really being argued about is dividing up taxpayer-supplied rescue money rather than assets of the company. From this point of view, it would have been better to demand, as a condition ofthe government assistance, that secured creditors give up some of their claims.
Two arguments frequently made that many secured creditors are vulture investors who bought the debt at a big discount, and that many creditors are also CDS holders, seem irrelevant.
--
"As long as they have the troops and all you have are tropes."
They don't have the troops, but they do control the troops via doping. One day, a real leader of the troops will go after the bloodsucking parasites. This is a prediction and not a call for action as some dopes here seem to ocnfuse.
burnside (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 7:33 am
Byz, I don't think I have blinders on
I don't think you do either. I'm not optimistic but I join you in longing for, you know, like an apparatus of state that seems like it might actually be functioning.
A few incidents in my memory show the courts as source for correction, the representative rediscovering its function in consequence.
It would be nice. I really have to say the decay of Congress appears to be the primary culprit, IMO. The electoral / legislative agenda mechanism is clearly captive.
homedad, from what I've read of the 2005 BK reform, the CDS contracts go to the front of the line, even if assets are frozen in BK, they get paid first.
I was talking to an undergraduate student friend of mine the other day and thought of one thing that gave me great joy. We are teaching an entire generation of youth to hate the banking system and Wall Street.
--
"I really have to say the decay of Congress appears to be the primary culprit, IMO."
IMO, we are dealing with the decay of the whole system in the grips of financial-bloodsucking parasites. Parasites cause decay, or they hollow out the host. That is what BFNYC have done to the American economy.
How are hardworking Americans going to deal with the known parasites? That is the $64Tr. question.
The Dupe Of Hazard (D'oh!) crawled out from under a rock to see how his UST's were doing, saw his shadow and unfortunately for him, is looking at 6 more months of losses.
--
"Maybe we could have some institutional reform while we're waiting for Oliver Cromwell to save us from ourselves?"
No reform because all the reforms are disguise for deforms!
Amazingly, Oliver Cromwell's Revolution gave rise to the power of London's bankers and financiers in England. The rest is history and that power has culminated in the control of the Anglo-American Empire by BFNYC. Remember the famous cover "Saviors of the World Economy" featuring the picture of three BFNYC--Rubin, Greenspan and Summers?
Which is worse - bankers or terrorists (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 8:16 am
I was talking to an undergraduate student friend of mine the other day and thought of one thing that gave me great joy. We are teaching an entire generation of youth to hate the banking system and Wall Street.
"I tell you what we did: we stole your fuckin' kids"
--Ice-T, "Home Invasion"
Overall, the government has committed some $180 billion in its efforts to rescue AIG, including roughly $80 billion in loans that the insurer is trying to repay through divestitures.
.... So far, AIG has reached deals for a dozen businesses, raising more than $4 billion.
GMAC Reports $675 Million First-Quarter Loss as Defaults Rise
By Ari Levy
May 5 (Bloomberg) -- GMAC LLC, the auto and home lender that received a $6 billion government bailout, reported a first- quarter loss of $675 million as surging loan defaults eclipsed an increase in new mortgages.
Just before we the people through our proxies, our politicians, decided to bail out AIG, based upon the stock valuation, the cap value of every possible share was around $10 Billion...
The market had spoken and punished the corporation vis a vis a very low valuation.
Then we the public stepped in and got to buy 79.9% of it for now what is close to 1/5th of a Trillion Dollars.
The "dollar a year man" in charge of running AIG into the ground has received almost half a million in other compensation.
I was working on my "Which is worse - bankers or terrorists" thesis last night. He is my quantitative comparison thus far:
Economic losses: From the global economic crisis, I think I'm being reasonable in quoting a number from last fall indicating that equity markets lost $30 trillion in value. The total losses from September 11th....well, not quite as high. Bankers 1, Terrorists 0.
Loss of Life: 3,000 people killed during September 11th. Total loss of life not yet calculated from this little economic upchuck but the last time we went down this road economically speaking, 20 million people died in WW2. Bankers 2, Terrorists 0.
QED.
I'm am still working on an analysis however: Which is worse - Bankers, terrorists, or Jas Jain? Any thoughts?
Okay, then I'm officially confused. I thought that the CDS were in essence insurance policies on the bonds. The payoff on CDS would come from the issuer of the CDS, which in many cases was AIG (even if not in this one).
I didn't think that the purchaser of the CDS got a standing in the process, like a lienholder.
Which is worse: Having 2 childhood friends who did not make it out of the North Tower, I still have to give the edge to the Terrorists, but you do have a point.
--
"Goldman Sachs" knows that Government Sucks and they keep on sucking the financial blood of Americans by using the govt. As long as these parasites thrive there is no hope for a better America. Down. down, down.
"Goldman Sachs" knows that Government Sucks and they keep on sucking the financial blood of Americans by using the govt. As long as these parasites thrive there is no hope for a better America. Down. down, down.
Jas
Why in the world would you invest in UST's, based upon what you know?
Please don't think I'm endorsing terrorism. However, I do remember a newspaper story in 2001, a few months after 9/11, where a Palestinian suicide bomber blew himself up into hundreds of pieces and accidently didn't so much as injure anyone else. I've thought.....what a perfect model for Goldman Sachs!!!
I mean.....have you ever seen an investment bank, blown up into 400 bloody pieces spread across a supermarket, ask for a bailout?
Dirk van Dijk (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 3:55 pm reply Ignore user Which is worse: Having 2 childhood friends who did not make it out of the North Tower, I still have to give the edge to the Terrorists, but you do have a point.
I'm sorry about your friends in the North Tower. I am making the point....who actually is a greater than to national security? Seriously....
Apparently it is o.k. that unemployment is and will continue to grow as long as accounting rules can be modified via calvin ball economics to demonstrate profits, and therefore recovery, and therefore a return to the status quo, which while stressed by circumstances, proves once again its resilience to reality.
But, the flight to chimera profits equals recovery, or glimmers of recovery, or penumbras of recovery is the end-game.
I can fathom saving the corporations, and perhaps regulatory and financial system, but destroying everything else in the process, political, social, cultural, and doing so does not make this kind of financial system worth saving.
However, as I've learned, just because you're in stage 4 cancer doesn't mean you don't wake up every day, and go about your routine for months, even years, sometimes for decades.
But as some are prone to know, the government will no longer be able honor its obligations in the near future, as standard of living is further erodes, and alterative organizations will have an opportunity to fill in the gaps of services, and possibly, alternative systems--whatever unsavory obligations may be required to earn those services...
......who would buy a Chrysler product today? They're old tech unless you went for the bold move and bought straight muscle.....
......have them reintroduce a 1957 Chrysler 300 w/426 hemi or a 1969 SuperBee w/426 or 440 w/tri-power.........forget the electronic stuff.......I'd like a CD player though & air.......
--
I realize that there is no point trying to argue with a born-and-bred American dope but let me once more explain why I am loaded with USTs and gold.
I predicted deflation years ago and now it is here and here to saty for at least few years.
If my USTs go to zero my gold holding with go up by a factor ot at least ten. I am covered, i.e., I have a good insurance policy.
"I'm sure the knowledgeable people already know this. But it turns out that one of the features of the 2005 Bankruptcy bill was to put derivative counter parties at the front of the line ahead of other creditors in bankruptcy proceedings. Actually, from what I can tell, they don't just go to the head of the line. They got to skip the line entirely. As the Financial Times noted last fall, "the 2005 changes made clear that certain derivatives and financial transactions were exempt from provisions in the bankruptcy code that freeze a failed company's assets until a court decides how to apportion them among creditors." As the article notes, ironically, this provision which Wall Street pushed for and got to protect investment banks actually ended up hastening the collapse of Lehman and Bear Stearns last year."
....of the 431 guests on-line, how many you think are financial IRS type cops? I'd bet you have different agencies here swapping spit and not even realizing they're crawling all over each others' business suits. Now, there's a definition debate as to what is "Rich" for tax purposes. Depends on if you are figuring statewise, federal-wise, or international-wise....They're already starting to eat each others' fat.....
09:15 ET : The upcoming ISM manufacturing report is expected to have improved in Apr to over 42.0 from 40.8 as it rebounds from record lows continuing to show lessening deterioration.
Gold is a hedge as long as the rules stay the same, which presupposes a system of exchange will be in place, sanctioned, or black-market where you can exchange gold for products/services.
The type of inflationary environment that will likely occur will eviscerate your purchasing power, and at the same time the system that oversees inflation will likely tax or confiscate your gold--or worse, yes a black market will exist, but at the premium of risk and you lose again.
It seems presumptive to assume the system will engineer itself to your financial preferences and that you've out-gamed it. I understand the strategy. But unlike other gold bugs who believe in the virtues of a malleable yellow metal, I cannot eat it, I cannot defend myself with it, I cannot use it to furrow the ground. Gold presupposes a cosmic system of exchange where its value is universal, and always-already recongnized and I don't buy it, literally.
Would be nice for some U.S. corporations like, say Haliburton to actually pay taxes in the US? Maybe there could be something in the military funding bills about US corporations. No taxes, no contracts?
Don't worry LBD, we'll manufacture new, exotic financial instruments that will innovate the banking sector! It will be most glorious! Oh wait? We did what? Oh, nevermind...
"When Lehman Brothers declared bankruptcy, it triggered the transfer of large sums in the CDS market to insure buyers of Lehman credit default risk protection against all losses from that event. The sellers of these contracts received the Lehman debt and in return they were obligated to pay the contract buyers (the insured parties) enough money to make the buyers “whole” i.e. to give them their full investment in the bonds back as if they had never bought the Lehman bonds.
The auction for Lehman’s debt occurred on Friday afternoon and the final auction price was $8.625. This means that for each $100 initial par value, the debt is only worth $8.625. The sellers of Lehman CDSs are obligated to pay the insured counterparties 91.375% of the bonds’ face value and, in return, they will receive the bonds."
I think that I see the confusion here. The question is at what point the CDS valuation occurs...in the beginning or after all is said and done.
The CDS holder has to be a bondholder of some kind, or else there's no reason for the CDS in the first place. At least in theory...hell, Hugo Chavez could've probably bought them as a joke.
But at what point does the CDS trigger...at outset of the bankruptcy or after all the dust has cleared? I take it from reading CK's quote that the CDS payoff is immediate...I just don't see however, how having a CDS on a particular company puts you further ahead in line at the bankruptcy judge's bench...
"Gold presupposes a cosmic system of exchange where its value is universal, and always-already recognized and I don't buy it, literally."
......bh, you're absolutely correct. You can't eat it or plow with it. But millions of people have thought that way over the millenia - and many lost. I guess squirrels have it figured out - not all your nuts in one place.
homedad, no problem and thanks for the info. I believe it applies when the actual insurer goes under, as would have been the case with AIG. I know it is very confusing, and I am quite sure that is on purpose
blackhat wrote: But unlike other gold bugs who believe in the virtues of a malleable yellow metal, I cannot eat it, I cannot defend myself with it, I cannot use it to furrow the ground. Gold presupposes a cosmic system of exchange where its value is universal, and always-already recongnized and I don't buy it, literally.
Can you eat Federal Reserve Notes, defend yourself with it, or use it to furrow the ground?
I really don't understand the "can't eat gold" meme. Exactly which currency can you eat?
If you don't believe in gold cosmic power, see what is happening in Zimbabwae where the entire financial system has broken down. They are trading gold powder for bread:
Speaking of dopes Jas, how you doing with all those long Treasuries. Since the Fed's announcement some six weeks ago, the 10 year is up more than 60 basis points. For the born and bred dopes like you holding the bag for the Treasury it has to have been a tough time.
India, did somebody say India is the new post WW2 model US???
"India’s phenomenal growth of the last five years was powered in large part by huge injections of cash and investment. Investment accounted for about 39 percent of the country’s gross domestic product in fiscal year 2008, up from 25 percent five years ago. At its peak, more than a third of investment came from abroad, according to Credit Suisse. But in the last three months of last year, foreign loans and direct investment fell by nearly a third, to their lowest level in more than two years.
In a recent report, the International Monetary Fund said Indian companies were among the world’s most vulnerable, after American firms, because they borrowed aggressively during the boom."
Pakistan expects up to 500,000 refugees from Swat
By ZARAR KHAN, Associated Press Writer Zarar Khan, Associated Press Writer – 13 mins ago
ISLAMABAD – Fighting between Taliban militants and troops in a northwestern valley triggered an exodus the government said Tuesday could see 500,000 people flee and signaled the end of a peace deal in the area widely criticized as a surrender to the extremists.
per Bloomberg, add Coca Cola, Oracle and Intel using Cayman Island addresses to avoid US taxes. And isn't Coke a major holding of that uber-patriot Warren Buffett??
The short coming is Tata has a customer base. Priced at a hungry market with deposits paid for their product. The US customer is spent out and the excess inventory is huge. US has to use deep debt to by a cheap car with poor credit. Investors will be very prudent but with a products and a customer base they will invest. India and China has far better potential then the US.
Jas tailors his bragging to the moment...sometimes he claims USTs if they're doing well, other times gold, though he also claims something he calls "Swissies" , though he's been silent on that for a while.
With all due respect, I'm sure you do understand the meme, just as well as you understand you cannot eat T-bills, dollars, euros, kroners, whatever. I'm sure you also understand that it is a false choice fallacy, either markets or t-bills, either currency or gold.
But the Zimbabwe example highlights my underlying concern of who has control of the means of production of their food. Food is a far more valuable commodity than gold.
The whole world is in a recession. Who has more potential to repair and move ahead first and best. US consumer is not the hungry customer it was after WWII. China and India are. Print is not fact as economist, government have not been correct. Common sense wins regardless of any of our opinions.
Ben,
well, let's see, India has the failed state pakistan imploding on it's border, the overseas investment that has driven it's boom has dried up, and oh yes, today Obama addressed the tax advantages of outsourcing, specificallly to india, and that has roiled indian biz today. you might have missed earlier discussion of roads and railways that are a legacy from the raj, the mass suicides from debt-riddled small farmers using gmo seeds, and the hundreds of thousands who are unable to afford even a chamber pot, a much discussed story on Bloomberg, that adds fecal snow to the pollution mix.
India is in no way comparable to the status of the US in 1945.
But if it suits you to believe it, go ahead, invest every nickle you have. Good luck with that.
frist
Bill Frist medical school experiments controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"...fundamental purpose of reorganization is to prevent the debtor from going into liquidation"...
bill was just trying to improve medical technology for cats everywhere...
The fundamental purpose of corporate bankruptcy law is welfare for (wealth redistribution to) the capitalist class.
The United States once stood for something, something very special, it was unique and it commanded a reverence that was unlike anything in the world that has ever been before. I fear that the time has past for saving our great republic from the ruins of time.
"The United States once stood for something"
well, we can only hope that the esteemed institution which brought us Dred Scott and Bush v. Gore can once again illuminate the complexities of the time with their unique brand of perspicacity.
OT: The California Association of REALTORS® came out with a new sales forecast, you can see the (d)evolution of their 2009 forecast here:
Effective Demand: CAR revises forecast
Has Fiat even agreed to come in on the deal yet?
FTA:
Chrysler's opening memorandum of law, however, does not address the important question of why, absent the consent of the dissident lenders, 65% of the equity in New Chrysler should go to junior creditors in satisfaction of their respective claims against Old Chrysler while the claims of senior dissenting lenders go unpaid?
Exactly! Also, the "Howard Delivery Serv., Inc. v. Zurich American Ins. Co." case-law certainly does not favor Chrysler-Administration. It's awesome how we can link to a 1913 NYT article online as well...
From the Creditors PDF file:
The Treasury Department relies on TARP as the purported authority to justify the disparate treatment under the 363 Sale, even though TARP was enacted after the Senior Lenders’ liens on the Debtors’ property were already in place. The Supreme Court long ago recognized, however, that a secured creditor’s interest in specific property is protected in bankruptcy under the Fifth Amendment. Louisville Joint Stock Land Bank v. Radford, 295 U.S. 555, 594 (1935). That case involved a Depression-era statute that was intended to help bankrupt farmers avoid losing their land in mortgage foreclosure. The statute in Radford provided that the bankrupt debtor could achieve a release of the security interests either (i) with the lender’s consent, purchasing the property at its then appraised value by making deferred payments for two to six years at statutorily-set interest rates; or (ii) by seeking from the bankruptcy court a stay of the proceedings for up to five years during which time the debtor could use the property by paying a rent set by the court, which payments would be for the benefit of all creditors, with a purchase option at the end of that period. Id. at 856-57.
Just one small snippet... I'm sure you can find it online as my source was a political blog and didn't want to open that can-o-worms...
My prediction: Congress will make a one-time law for this Chrysler (and maybe GM) and head for a show-down with the creditors to the Supreme Court... Why the eff not?
A hemi bankruptcy...
I don't know about you, but I'm not going down without a fight.
In 1980?, when the Sheraton Park in Washington closed, the owners held a property sale they advertised as "the garage sale of the century."
Their record, if you can call it that, has been broken many times.
I'm definitely going to attend the Chrysler and GM sales, if for no other reason than to say I was there when it happened.
A lot of property will be liquidated.
The Fed (or its proxy, the Treasury) versus rule of law looks to shape up in the same way as the Fed versus free markets. My money is on the Fed.
"Chrysler lost $16.8 billion in 2008, and expects to lose $4.7 billion in 2009."
Yeah sure...
We substitute temporary economic activity for a catastrophic economic failure which is sure to come. How is that a good thing?
"A lot of these guys right now are just trying to survive," James Arrigo, the co-chairman of Chrysler's National Dealer Counsel said of the company's dealers at a hearing on Monday in U.S. bankruptcy court in Manhattan.
Arrigo, who is one of the company's top-ten selling dealers, according to court papers, says that even he has seen a drop off of about 50 percent in car sales this year.
I have a feeling that the BK process may not turn out to the swift surgical procedure the government wants. It may veer off into an unexpected outcome, leaving the prospect of a GM BK almost as scary as an AIG BK. In that case, I can see the Fed feeding tens of billions more into GM (by buying up its debt) until some kind of out of court arrangement can be made.
I can't see any way to avoid losing another half million jobs in the auto sector this year.
"leaving the prospect of a GM BK almost as scary as an AIG BK"
nonsense. GM only made commitments to hundreds of thousands of workers, not important things like gambling contracts with GS, JPM, etc... these flyover folks are worth less than nothing, let alone the half-trillion that folks like Dimon, Lay and Blankfein are worth, just as shining paragons of human virtue alone.
O! The stilted prose from some here.
Does the artificial elevation of the appendix-mistaken-for-a-heart that is the financial services industry deserve anything less?
In 1926, the Loughead brothers incorporated their business in Nevada.
In 1929, their largest shareholder sold out to Detroit and the brothers resigned. Allan sold real estate and Malcolm started a business making the hydraulic brakes he'd invented.
By 1932, Malcolm was broke and ended up prospecting for gold the rest of his life. Allan moved to Tucson and became a real estate broker.
The Gross brothers, Bob and Courtland, bought the Loughead's business out of bankruptcy for $40,000. Allan wanted to do it, had raised $40,000 and was trying to raise $80,000, thinking that anything less than $80,000 would be an insult.
On Christmas Eve 1932, Carl Squier, the sales manager, withdrew all $3,000 of his savings and stood at the gate handing out $10 bills so that the employees, who were working on survival wages, could provide a Christmas for their families.
By 1938, the business was a growing concern.
Good things can come from bad things.
Kind've like fertilizer?
Oh, I forgot to mention that both Loughead brothers ended up changing the spelling of their names to the Scottish way they're pronounced:
Lockheed.
"Kind've like fertilizer?"
You might say that.
You might also say that, at least some of the time, assets pass from one set of hands to another set of hands that know exactly how to use them.
baah... the story of Jack Parsons contains 100x more interesting drama and scientific and cultural relevance...
true.
I am skeptical your comments refer to Chrysler... perhaps if someplace like Tesla Motors were to go down and change hands... but your general point is true.
It has been more than twenty years, but some things are just forever...(I made a few little modifications to bring it up to the 21st century)
Citigroup, Mr. Cromwell, Citigroup has 33 different vice presidents each earning over 200 thousand dollars a year. Now, I have spent the last two months analyzing what all these guys do, and I still can't figure it out. One thing I do know is that our bank lost 110 million dollars last year, and I'll bet that half of that was spent in all the paperwork going back and forth between all these vice presidents.
The new law of evolution in corporate America seems to be survival of the unfittest. Well, in my book you either do it right or you get eliminated. In the last seven deals that I've been involved with, there were 2.5 million stockholders who have made a pretax profit of 12 billion dollars. Thank you. I am not a destroyer of companies. I am a liberator of them!
The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right, greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind.
And greed, you mark my words, will not only save Citigroup, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA. Thank you very much.
Just a few observations.
I anticipate thickets of friend of the court filings.
Precedent whether recent or hoary with age is operative, often undiluted.
It is time the judiciary became active.
I look forward to a great deal of ink spilt over balance of power.
These proceedings promise to present some real provocation if the courts come out swinging, as I think they may.
--
Merle Hazard Asks: Zimbabwe Or Japan?
Merle Hazard Meets John Taylor:
YouTube - Merle Hazard Meets John Taylor
Tragedy of America, as it is hurling towards collapse of its econo-political system, is that highly intelligent men like Bernanke are bred to be dopes in the areas of economics, investments and political systems. Bernanke is also an economics moron who believes that he can control the behavior of hundreds of millions of consumers and millions of big and small businesses.
Needless to say, born-and-bred American dopes get sucked into the inflation camp readily. The worst of these dopes are “Printing Money” inflation dopes. They never understood what causes inflation and they never will as long as they keep the “Printing Money” myth going despite what has transpired over the past 9 months. Dopes never examine their premise even when they are proven wrong by evidence contrary to their assumptions.
OK, dopes, is the US economic and political system closer to Japan or Zimbabwe? Economics morons like Marc Faber, of course, think it is more like Zimbabwe. No wonder that Marc Faber and Jim Rogers are guiding lights of inflation dopes. Dopes, in general, suffer from the cult of personality.
Jas
Q: Why did the Obama cross the road?
A: To get away from the sick Mexicans!
1 - Knock, knock!
2 - Who's there?
1 - W.H.O.
2 - I asked you first!
Q: Why was Congress inoculated first for the flu?
A: Because they work daily with pork products!
Q: What did the Mexican president say when thousands of people got sick?
A: It's "snout" our problem!
Q: What did Popeye say when he got the flu?
A: I ham what I ham.
mp (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 3:59 am
You might also say that, at least some of the time, assets pass from one set of hands to another set of hands that know exactly how to use them.
Amen.
I wonder sometimes if people realize how many of the "perma-bears" here are industriously beavering away at what they know are the moneymaking opportunities of a lifetime.
burnside (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 6:33 am
It is time the judiciary became active.
I look forward to a great deal of ink spilt over balance of power.
These proceedings promise to present some real provocation if the courts come out swinging, as I think they may.
I would really be so very happy if some branch of our state proved capable of action. I don't really care about the outcome, I just want it to be an actual proceeding, not some backroom wheeler-dealer operation where I'm pledged for thousands and tens of thousands of dollars personally because Hanktator will even go down on his knees to close a deal. There's a process for a reason.
--
"The fundamental purpose of corporate bankruptcy law is welfare for (wealth redistribution to) the capitalist class."
Yogi,
"The capitalist class" now consists primarily of bloodsucking parasites, e.g., Government Sucks. The control of the USG by these bloodsucking parasites means that we have a bloodsucking parasitic govt. How long do you think that such a govt would survive?
Jas
Jas: "The control of the USG by these bloodsucking parasites means that we have a bloodsucking parasitic govt. How long do you think that such a govt would survive?"
As long as they have the troops and all you have are tropes.
Bears need something to change their luck. In that spirit, I bring back this oldie but a goodie:
Hey kids, you'd better fill the tank up
Before the printing presses really start to crank up
They'll kill the fatted buck tonight, don't stick around
You're gonna hear the same old dreck from bubblevision clowns
Oh Janet and Lacker have you seen 'em yet?
Ben he looks all spaced out
You know they're in cahoots with Goldman suits
Your budget's blown out on bread and gasoline, oh
B-b-b-b Bennie and the Inkjets
--
There Are Green-Shoots Everywhere!
On financial TV as well as on my property, especially, on the hillside. These green-shoots are all weeds. A born-and-bred American dope like Bernanke confuses the weeds with a crop. It doesn’t take much for a born-and-bred American dope to get excited about a positive outcome because he suffers from the congenital disease of optimitis.
Jas
That Barton Fink Feeling (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 7:15 am
As long as they have the troops and all you have are tropes.
Troops make you a warlord. Consent makes you a ruler. The state exists primarily in the minds of the governed. They long to believe in it, but their eyes will, in time, inform them of wanton rapine. A state nobody believes in is dead.
Byz, I don't think I have blinders on, in fact believe most or nearly all we'll see on balance of power will be complete and utter balls.
A few incidents in my memory show the courts as source for correction, the representative rediscovering its function in consequence. But I'm not taking odds. I hope Scalia is around for this one.
I think there is an important distinction between current UAW workers and retirees. The latter have a claim based on services already performed. If traditional rules give some other set of creditors higher priority, then something is wrong with those rules. Trying to maintain wage levels for work to be performed in the future, even if contractually specified, does not seem to me to have as strong a case.
I saw an argument made (I think by Floyd Norris) that the government has injected so much money into Chrysler that what is really being argued about is dividing up taxpayer-supplied rescue money rather than assets of the company. From this point of view, it would have been better to demand, as a condition ofthe government assistance, that secured creditors give up some of their claims.
Two arguments frequently made that many secured creditors are vulture investors who bought the debt at a big discount, and that many creditors are also CDS holders, seem irrelevant.
--
"As long as they have the troops and all you have are tropes."
They don't have the troops, but they do control the troops via doping. One day, a real leader of the troops will go after the bloodsucking parasites. This is a prediction and not a call for action as some dopes here seem to ocnfuse.
BLOOD WILL CONQUER MONEY!
Jas
Question for everybody here.
Regarding the CDS, does the fact that they've filed Chapter 11 force the CDS payoff or does it come later in the process?
Thanks.
burnside (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 7:33 am
Byz, I don't think I have blinders on
I don't think you do either. I'm not optimistic but I join you in longing for, you know, like an apparatus of state that seems like it might actually be functioning.
A few incidents in my memory show the courts as source for correction, the representative rediscovering its function in consequence.
It would be nice. I really have to say the decay of Congress appears to be the primary culprit, IMO. The electoral / legislative agenda mechanism is clearly captive.
homedad, from what I've read of the 2005 BK reform, the CDS contracts go to the front of the line, even if assets are frozen in BK, they get paid first.
I was talking to an undergraduate student friend of mine the other day and thought of one thing that gave me great joy. We are teaching an entire generation of youth to hate the banking system and Wall Street.
Jas Jain (homepage, profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 7:35 am
BLOOD WILL CONQUER MONEY!
Maybe we could have some institutional reform while we're waiting for Oliver Cromwell to save us from ourselves?
--
"I really have to say the decay of Congress appears to be the primary culprit, IMO."
IMO, we are dealing with the decay of the whole system in the grips of financial-bloodsucking parasites. Parasites cause decay, or they hollow out the host. That is what BFNYC have done to the American economy.
How are hardworking Americans going to deal with the known parasites? That is the $64Tr. question.
Jas
The Dupe Of Hazard (D'oh!) crawled out from under a rock to see how his UST's were doing, saw his shadow and unfortunately for him, is looking at 6 more months of losses.
--
"Maybe we could have some institutional reform while we're waiting for Oliver Cromwell to save us from ourselves?"
No reform because all the reforms are disguise for deforms!
Amazingly, Oliver Cromwell's Revolution gave rise to the power of London's bankers and financiers in England. The rest is history and that power has culminated in the control of the Anglo-American Empire by BFNYC. Remember the famous cover "Saviors of the World Economy" featuring the picture of three BFNYC--Rubin, Greenspan and Summers?
Jas
Which is worse - bankers or terrorists (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 8:16 am
I was talking to an undergraduate student friend of mine the other day and thought of one thing that gave me great joy. We are teaching an entire generation of youth to hate the banking system and Wall Street.
"I tell you what we did: we stole your fuckin' kids"
--Ice-T, "Home Invasion"
AIG to post first-quarter loss, no new bailout: source
Overall, the government has committed some $180 billion in its efforts to rescue AIG, including roughly $80 billion in loans that the insurer is trying to repay through divestitures.
....
So far, AIG has reached deals for a dozen businesses, raising more than $4 billion.
When do we make money on this deal?
GMAC Reports $675 Million Loss as Loan Defaults Rise (Update3) - Bloomberg.com
GMAC Reports $675 Million First-Quarter Loss as Defaults Rise
By Ari Levy
May 5 (Bloomberg) -- GMAC LLC, the auto and home lender that received a $6 billion government bailout, reported a first- quarter loss of $675 million as surging loan defaults eclipsed an increase in new mortgages.
R.I.P. Chrysler, Fiat/Uaw/Motors Or FU Motors for short!
--
Arbitrage_Macht_Frei,
You represent born-and-bred American dopes well. Keep up the good work. Dopes look to you for guidence.
Jas
Just before we the people through our proxies, our politicians, decided to bail out AIG, based upon the stock valuation, the cap value of every possible share was around $10 Billion...
The market had spoken and punished the corporation vis a vis a very low valuation.
Then we the public stepped in and got to buy 79.9% of it for now what is close to 1/5th of a Trillion Dollars.
The "dollar a year man" in charge of running AIG into the ground has received almost half a million in other compensation.
It's a crying shame..
Jas,
I expected you to defend your investments, rather than attack the messenger. But alas, you always play to form.
--
No shame in Gangistan and Dopeland. Shamelessness is a necessary condition to breed dopes.
Jas
I was working on my "Which is worse - bankers or terrorists" thesis last night. He is my quantitative comparison thus far:
Economic losses: From the global economic crisis, I think I'm being reasonable in quoting a number from last fall indicating that equity markets lost $30 trillion in value. The total losses from September 11th....well, not quite as high. Bankers 1, Terrorists 0.
Loss of Life: 3,000 people killed during September 11th. Total loss of life not yet calculated from this little economic upchuck but the last time we went down this road economically speaking, 20 million people died in WW2. Bankers 2, Terrorists 0.
QED.
I'm am still working on an analysis however: Which is worse - Bankers, terrorists, or Jas Jain? Any thoughts?
CK:
Okay, then I'm officially confused. I thought that the CDS were in essence insurance policies on the bonds. The payoff on CDS would come from the issuer of the CDS, which in many cases was AIG (even if not in this one).
I didn't think that the purchaser of the CDS got a standing in the process, like a lienholder.
Hmm.
Which is worse - bankers or terrorists
Maybe Goldman Sachs Tower - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
will be the next target of attack?
Which is worse: Having 2 childhood friends who did not make it out of the North Tower, I still have to give the edge to the Terrorists, but you do have a point.
Goldman Sachs is the night of the living debt, ghoulish stuff.
Richmond Fed: The Economic Outlook, May 2009
The Economic Outlook, May 2009 - Federal Reserve Bank of Richmond
Snark summary: We're gonna be saved by "the resilience of the American consumer, and ...the power of monetary policy."
--
"Goldman Sachs" knows that Government Sucks and they keep on sucking the financial blood of Americans by using the govt. As long as these parasites thrive there is no hope for a better America. Down. down, down.
Jas
"Goldman Sachs" knows that Government Sucks and they keep on sucking the financial blood of Americans by using the govt. As long as these parasites thrive there is no hope for a better America. Down. down, down.
Jas
Why in the world would you invest in UST's, based upon what you know?
Which is worse - bankers or terrorists
Maybe Goldman Sachs Tower - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
will be the next target of attack?
Please don't think I'm endorsing terrorism. However, I do remember a newspaper story in 2001, a few months after 9/11, where a Palestinian suicide bomber blew himself up into hundreds of pieces and accidently didn't so much as injure anyone else. I've thought.....what a perfect model for Goldman Sachs!!!
I mean.....have you ever seen an investment bank, blown up into 400 bloody pieces spread across a supermarket, ask for a bailout?
Dare to dream.
"I didn't think that the purchaser of the CDS got a standing in the process, like a lienholder."
.....I thought they were separate actions as well, homedad.........and the CDS were actionable prior to BK proceedings. Hmmm.. (X2)
can't we just resuscitate then let them fail, over and over.
bankruptcy of corporate icons appears to be good for the market
and thus the economy
Dirk van Dijk (profile) wrote on Tue, 5/5/2009 - 3:55 pm reply Ignore user Which is worse: Having 2 childhood friends who did not make it out of the North Tower, I still have to give the edge to the Terrorists, but you do have a point.
I'm sorry about your friends in the North Tower. I am making the point....who actually is a greater than to national security? Seriously....
Apparently it is o.k. that unemployment is and will continue to grow as long as accounting rules can be modified via calvin ball economics to demonstrate profits, and therefore recovery, and therefore a return to the status quo, which while stressed by circumstances, proves once again its resilience to reality.
But, the flight to chimera profits equals recovery, or glimmers of recovery, or penumbras of recovery is the end-game.
I can fathom saving the corporations, and perhaps regulatory and financial system, but destroying everything else in the process, political, social, cultural, and doing so does not make this kind of financial system worth saving.
However, as I've learned, just because you're in stage 4 cancer doesn't mean you don't wake up every day, and go about your routine for months, even years, sometimes for decades.
But as some are prone to know, the government will no longer be able honor its obligations in the near future, as standard of living is further erodes, and alterative organizations will have an opportunity to fill in the gaps of services, and possibly, alternative systems--whatever unsavory obligations may be required to earn those services...
--bh
......who would buy a Chrysler product today? They're old tech unless you went for the bold move and bought straight muscle.....
......have them reintroduce a 1957 Chrysler 300 w/426 hemi or a 1969 SuperBee w/426 or 440 w/tri-power.........forget the electronic stuff.......I'd like a CD player though & air.......
And here is something else driving me crazy. Did you see Geithner up on the podium yesterday vowing to chase down tax cheats?
Yeah, that made me feel better.
--
I realize that there is no point trying to argue with a born-and-bred American dope but let me once more explain why I am loaded with USTs and gold.
I predicted deflation years ago and now it is here and here to saty for at least few years.
If my USTs go to zero my gold holding with go up by a factor ot at least ten. I am covered, i.e., I have a good insurance policy.
Jas
Irony has been so cheapened, another victim of this bad economy.
BSR, homedad
How the Rules Were Rigged | Talking Points Memo
"I'm sure the knowledgeable people already know this. But it turns out that one of the features of the 2005 Bankruptcy bill was to put derivative counter parties at the front of the line ahead of other creditors in bankruptcy proceedings. Actually, from what I can tell, they don't just go to the head of the line. They got to skip the line entirely. As the Financial Times noted last fall, "the 2005 changes made clear that certain derivatives and financial transactions were exempt from provisions in the bankruptcy code that freeze a failed company's assets until a court decides how to apportion them among creditors." As the article notes, ironically, this provision which Wall Street pushed for and got to protect investment banks actually ended up hastening the collapse of Lehman and Bear Stearns last year."
So, despite telling everybody you were locked & loaded with UST's, it now turns out you are sitting on a bunch of gold in Tehachipi?
Sorry it took so long to get a link to you guys on that, getting ready for work here...
....of the 431 guests on-line, how many you think are financial IRS type cops? I'd bet you have different agencies here swapping spit and not even realizing they're crawling all over each others' business suits. Now, there's a definition debate as to what is "Rich" for tax purposes. Depends on if you are figuring statewise, federal-wise, or international-wise....They're already starting to eat each others' fat.....
Obama's tax plan hurts the upper middle class - May. 5, 2009
09:15 ET : The upcoming ISM manufacturing report is expected to have improved in Apr to over 42.0 from 40.8 as it rebounds from record lows continuing to show lessening deterioration.
Briefing.com: Bond Market Update
it's not that the counterparties move to the head of the line. it's that the automatic stay doesn't apply to the assets under collateral.
Thanks Basel, I was unsure how it would apply with Chrysler, I just remember reading about it a few months ago...
Jas,
Gold is a hedge as long as the rules stay the same, which presupposes a system of exchange will be in place, sanctioned, or black-market where you can exchange gold for products/services.
The type of inflationary environment that will likely occur will eviscerate your purchasing power, and at the same time the system that oversees inflation will likely tax or confiscate your gold--or worse, yes a black market will exist, but at the premium of risk and you lose again.
It seems presumptive to assume the system will engineer itself to your financial preferences and that you've out-gamed it. I understand the strategy. But unlike other gold bugs who believe in the virtues of a malleable yellow metal, I cannot eat it, I cannot defend myself with it, I cannot use it to furrow the ground. Gold presupposes a cosmic system of exchange where its value is universal, and always-already recongnized and I don't buy it, literally.
--bh
.....CDS can be activated thru Chrysler's action and quite possibly eat up any and all collateral?
i think its safe to say that Chrysler will be ok. same with GM and Ford. In fact, the worst is over, blue skies ahead.
Would be nice for some U.S. corporations like, say Haliburton to actually pay taxes in the US? Maybe there could be something in the military funding bills about US corporations. No taxes, no contracts?
I believe so BSR. Now, who the counterparties are should be interesting.
This is why America has taxed, regulated and unionized it's self into a corner. India and China economies are the US post WWII.
BBC NEWS | Business | Tata takes 203,000 Nano orders
US Manufacturing is dead. When the cars and suppliers are gone then come steel, plastics on and on.
Don't worry LBD, we'll manufacture new, exotic financial instruments that will innovate the banking sector! It will be most glorious! Oh wait? We did what? Oh, nevermind...
Worry not about Jas, he bought so many cases of Slim-Jims for his Quickie-Mart, that he will never go hungry because of his other malinvestments...
"When Lehman Brothers declared bankruptcy, it triggered the transfer of large sums in the CDS market to insure buyers of Lehman credit default risk protection against all losses from that event. The sellers of these contracts received the Lehman debt and in return they were obligated to pay the contract buyers (the insured parties) enough money to make the buyers “whole” i.e. to give them their full investment in the bonds back as if they had never bought the Lehman bonds.
The auction for Lehman’s debt occurred on Friday afternoon and the final auction price was $8.625. This means that for each $100 initial par value, the debt is only worth $8.625. The sellers of Lehman CDSs are obligated to pay the insured counterparties 91.375% of the bonds’ face value and, in return, they will receive the bonds."
CK/BSR:
The above quote is from Credit Writedowns - Finance, Economics, and Markets
I think that I see the confusion here. The question is at what point the CDS valuation occurs...in the beginning or after all is said and done.
I shoulda just kept my damned mouth shut.
Thanks guys (seriously, no snark).
"Gold presupposes a cosmic system of exchange where its value is universal, and always-already recognized and I don't buy it, literally."
......bh, you're absolutely correct. You can't eat it or plow with it. But millions of people have thought that way over the millenia - and many lost. I guess squirrels have it figured out - not all your nuts in one place.
homedad, no problem and thanks for the info. I believe it applies when the actual insurer goes under, as would have been the case with AIG. I know it is very confusing, and I am quite sure that is on purpose
I could care less about gold, but has it's value ever gone to zero?
blackhat wrote:
But unlike other gold bugs who believe in the virtues of a malleable yellow metal, I cannot eat it, I cannot defend myself with it, I cannot use it to furrow the ground. Gold presupposes a cosmic system of exchange where its value is universal, and always-already recongnized and I don't buy it, literally.
Can you eat Federal Reserve Notes, defend yourself with it, or use it to furrow the ground?
I really don't understand the "can't eat gold" meme. Exactly which currency can you eat?
If you don't believe in gold cosmic power, see what is happening in Zimbabwae where the entire financial system has broken down. They are trading gold powder for bread:
Rural Zimbabweans are desperately panning for gold powder to ward off starvation |
World news |
guardian.co.uk
Speaking of dopes Jas, how you doing with all those long Treasuries. Since the Fed's announcement some six weeks ago, the 10 year is up more than 60 basis points. For the born and bred dopes like you holding the bag for the Treasury it has to have been a tough time.
India, did somebody say India is the new post WW2 model US???
"India’s phenomenal growth of the last five years was powered in large part by huge injections of cash and investment. Investment accounted for about 39 percent of the country’s gross domestic product in fiscal year 2008, up from 25 percent five years ago. At its peak, more than a third of investment came from abroad, according to Credit Suisse. But in the last three months of last year, foreign loans and direct investment fell by nearly a third, to their lowest level in more than two years.
In a recent report, the International Monetary Fund said Indian companies were among the world’s most vulnerable, after American firms, because they borrowed aggressively during the boom."
Gee, maybe not. From the NYTimes this morning.
homedad, thanks for link and quote. First time I've been able to see the transaction with some clarity.
This becomes especially interesting where the CDS issuer is potentially in default.
Pakistan expects up to 500,000 refugees from Swat
By ZARAR KHAN, Associated Press Writer Zarar Khan, Associated Press Writer – 13 mins ago
ISLAMABAD – Fighting between Taliban militants and troops in a northwestern valley triggered an exodus the government said Tuesday could see 500,000 people flee and signaled the end of a peace deal in the area widely criticized as a surrender to the extremists.
Yahoo! 404 - Page Not Found
doug r...
per Bloomberg, add Coca Cola, Oracle and Intel using Cayman Island addresses to avoid US taxes. And isn't Coke a major holding of that uber-patriot Warren Buffett??
Fried,
The short coming is Tata has a customer base. Priced at a hungry market with deposits paid for their product. The US customer is spent out and the excess inventory is huge. US has to use deep debt to by a cheap car with poor credit. Investors will be very prudent but with a products and a customer base they will invest. India and China has far better potential then the US.
Jas tailors his bragging to the moment...sometimes he claims USTs if they're doing well, other times gold, though he also claims something he calls "Swissies" , though he's been silent on that for a while.
Comrade Coinz,
With all due respect, I'm sure you do understand the meme, just as well as you understand you cannot eat T-bills, dollars, euros, kroners, whatever. I'm sure you also understand that it is a false choice fallacy, either markets or t-bills, either currency or gold.
But the Zimbabwe example highlights my underlying concern of who has control of the means of production of their food. Food is a far more valuable commodity than gold.
--bh
Ben,
I'd suggest you actually read the Times piece first.
fried,
The whole world is in a recession. Who has more potential to repair and move ahead first and best. US consumer is not the hungry customer it was after WWII. China and India are. Print is not fact as economist, government have not been correct. Common sense wins regardless of any of our opinions.
Ben,
well, let's see, India has the failed state pakistan imploding on it's border, the overseas investment that has driven it's boom has dried up, and oh yes, today Obama addressed the tax advantages of outsourcing, specificallly to india, and that has roiled indian biz today. you might have missed earlier discussion of roads and railways that are a legacy from the raj, the mass suicides from debt-riddled small farmers using gmo seeds, and the hundreds of thousands who are unable to afford even a chamber pot, a much discussed story on Bloomberg, that adds fecal snow to the pollution mix.
India is in no way comparable to the status of the US in 1945.
But if it suits you to believe it, go ahead, invest every nickle you have. Good luck with that.