We tried building cars in Mexico but they Mexican government is such a corrupt Mafi like organization it could never happen long term, you need to spend most of your time paying off criminals which take away the focus on business.

Probably applies to the Mexican state in general. The only succesfull Mexican businesses are run in a mafia like family struture.

Your can already see that type of corruption in Los Angeles, now making its way into Los Angeles politics as well.

Nothing is more dangerous to America then the destruction of individual liberty.

Stopping illegal immigration would provide the jobs to get Americans through, unemployement would go down overnight and citizen could make there mortgage payments and pay local taxes.

illegal black market Mexican economies are running rampant accross America and are destroying the fabric of social society.

We must round them all up and deport them. Nothing racist about it, Mexcio is a country NOT a race, I do not care if the illegal mexicans are black or white, they are illegal and should be deported and or shot on site.

Preview for what is coming up for China/other idiots who hold US bonds - Neu Dollar - Neu Dollar will be 1/5th of the old dollar.

'they are illegal and should be deported and or shot on site'

You, sir, are someone that needs a good teabagging.

There you have it.

For the past eight years, as I see a Japanese or Korean or German vehicle on the road, I have been counting the days to the collapse. I mean, com'on. Even the stupid could put two and two together, realizing that the US productive sector was being sacrificed to the Plantation Capitalist's.

Plantation capitalism is a term that I invented, in honor of Walmart and the turn by the Dixiectrats' haterade of A Lincoln to LBJ.

Even the retailers are starting to realize that JQP has run out of greenich. All you dumb bastards who are buying imported goods: Duh.

Simmer. Down.

We must round them all up and deport them. Nothing racist about it, Mexcio is a country NOT a race, I do not care if the illegal mexicans are black or white, they are illegal and should be deported and or shot on site. <i/>

I too would like to think outside the box.

Why are we counting?

They ain't gonna let it happen. Too many unknowns.

Y'all get ready to grab those ankles one more time.

How true, here is nice video of Mexicans burning the American flag in Mexico city, yet they all want to come work here.

I would say it is called jelousy and hatred. Mexico would be much better off if the dropped thier latino culture and create a nation of laws with individual liberty.

YouTube - Burning Flag at the US Embassy in MEXICO CITY, MEXICO

Take Argentina for example, another poor county but without latino politics. Not many Argentinians want to move to the USA, Argentina is a fantastic place to live: poor or rich. Why? Because they value the individual, rule of law, and are a civilized society.

Truth Hurts. Sorry if you are a Mexican but your country sucks and has always sucked, if you don't like it then go change it?

"Global Waming" was changed to "Climate Change" because the right wing idiots are too uneducated to understand that with global warming not everywhere gets more hot and more dry.

Remember these are the same people that believe in literal bible stories, so that have a hard time with simple reasoning over words such as "warming".

But it says warming so how can some places actually get more rain and cold, I am so confused, .... LOL Retards.

@anonymous
Who is hiring the illegals?
Where is the rule of law being questioned?

Argentina is the only place in "latin America" that has enough civivilized European secular thought that it is worth living. That is why everyone is shocked when they visit Argentina and realize how civilized it is. Can you imagine an article like this below being writen about Mexico? LOL.

"A recent survey showed that in order to live or visit, Argentina is one of the places that have in mind the Europeans. According to the newspaper El Pais of Spain, Argentina headed the ranking of nonEuropean destinies to go visit.The prestigious Irish magazine “International Living” included the land of the gaucho and the tango as a preferred destination to settle down. In its survey of Quality of Life 2007, Argentina appears tenth in the ranking, although the country is the only Latin American representative in the listing, headed by France. According to “International Living”, the gastronomy, the customs, the low cost of life, and the night life are the parameters that were taken into account to enter the top ten. The listing is headed by France and is followed by Australia, Holland, New Zealand and the United States."

anonymous,
Citizens are wearing bullet proof vests in Buenos Aires...

No climate change scientists do NOT predict the future, go talk to some. The study was is going on in the present relative to the past and provide beyond any doubt with evidence that the earth is WARMING TODAY. Not a cycle, ect...

Then they do a range of projections into the future based on what is happening today and will be the first to tell you that these are projection and will discuss that factors with you on what would change these projections. It is actually very basic, simple science.

It is politicians that predict the future, not the scientists, you've been watching too much Fox News. Corporate America is desperate to stop carbon laws and so spending tons of money on Fox News.

The earth has warmed, it has been proved, you can claim that it is God that did it I guess, but that would make you retarded.

Even if there's something to global warming, a global deflation will reduce emissions especially when it really kicks in...

uno mundo,

so what, the intended comparison is Argentina too Mexico not the USA. Compare Argentina to Mexico. Because of their secular European influence to even out some of the Latino mafi culture it beats Mexico hands down.

It is to help people like you understand what makes America so great and places like Mexico such cess pools, it is NOT God nor Luck. It is the society that the people choose to live in.

Mexico is a complete dump. Do you believe that statement is false? What would millions of Mexicans try to esacape and leave thier family behind it Mexico was not a complete cess pool?

It is simply the truth. If are too retarded to start with the truth will never get the answers.

'They claim to predict the future based on heavily gamed computer models that cannot predict the past (even the last 50 years).'

And they do a horrible job with the future too - compared to actual observational data, all the models are far too optimistic in their predictions.

Just like the bank stress test, the reality of climate change as depicted by real time data is beyond the model's most pessimistic conclusions.

Some people get confused - the global effects of increasing atmospheric CO2 on a planetary atmosphere in terms of how solar energy is retained are the basis for empirical observations which are honestly difficult to dispute, even if the single cause is not CO2. It is quite possible to model, using simple assumptions but ever more refinable data, the effects of Arctic sea ice melting in terms of albedo, ocean water heat retention, sea ice formation, etc for example.

But the fundamental assumption isn't Arctic sea ice is melting, how can we blame it on our pet cause, the fundamental science concerns the effects of the observed data into the future, and the other mechanisms involved.

Our ignorance is quite large, but the results of the planet wide experiment will likely be observable for geologically significant amounts of time - after all, the amount of carbon which has been restored to the atmosphere is geologically significant, and took geological spans of time to bury. Our actions today will not change processes which have been now active for decades, involving effects that will take lifetimes to reliably measure.

Our belief is not required.

P = seAT4

It is called science. You know the pesky little formulas that got use cars, airplanes, put people on the moon. Keep watching Fox News, they understand the truth about these pesky little formulas, formuals are evil, there are no scientific formulas in the bible!!

that was to anonymouse

'We've got some smart people making important points about the consequences of GM bankruptcy. Listen and learn or join in the conversation.'

Well, some of us post news about Opel and Saab, and still respond to people who continue to espouse global cooling and predict growing Arctic sea ice cover - which didn't come to pass, by the way. Data is like that - it doesn't care about anyone's opinions.

'green house effect on earth is water vapour'

And methane plays a major role, though the methane escape rates from mines and wells has remained fairly static over decades, apparently. Lots of real time data here, by the way - ESRL Global Monitoring Division

And before a bunch of people jump in, at least read a bit about them here - ESRL Global Monitoring Division - Research Areas Seems like pretty much what you would expect from a data gathering group, though it does tend to work on an international scale involving the Internet and other advances in how real time and presumably reliable observational data is collected, stored, and evaluated.

It is a complex, multi-variable world out there, and even the entire landmass, which by no stretch of the imagination has been accurately measured for longer stretches of time, is just a fraction of the surface area of the globe.

Which is why it is so sad to see people reduce such discussions to simplicities, either their own, or those ascribed to others.

The CO2 rise is data, its effects will also be observable. For example, ocean acidity levels. The world is larger than us; we will never completely grasp it, being only a part of the whole, and the only certain truth I hold about the future is that everyone born will die, most definitely including myself.

anony,
Mexico is one of many nations with a cheap labor force that is used for profits...there's China, India, and pretty soon the USA...

There needs to be currency stress tests...that'll be next.

Taxday teaparty is a right wing corporate lobby funded anti-Obama scam. The idea was stolen from Ron Paul's tea party during the election.

Nothing would be more retarded than an American attending one of these fake tea parties on behalf of corporate Republican scum. I can't think of anything more disgusting and unAmerican.

Constantly amazing me how retarded people are, is that hard to follow the money and figure out the truth? It takes all of about 3 brain cells and 15 minutes.

There is a big Obama vs. Corporate America + Repbulican corporate cocksuckers + Demcratic corporate cocksuckers going on right now.

Rather then a tax tea party you should have a close the federal reserve and dump it into the Hudson party.

uno mundo, you missed my educational posts: How do you think America will be next? Who will the cheap labor be for? That is completely retarded, have you graduated from high school yet?

Mexico = blue collar service jobs
India = white collar back office jobs
China = offshore manufacturing.

That is the destruction and selling out of America in a nutshell. It is the truth.

The solution is:

Mexico = deport them all, now. Shoot to kill at the border.
India = end all H1-B visa programs.
China = tax the hell out of manufacturing.

That is the solution, no holding my breath, so America will continue her decline until enough Americans wake up from thier slumber.

........GM Said to Target UAW Health Accord Shortly After Chrysler Deal .......

GM Said to Target UAW Health Accord Shortly After Chrysler Deal - Bloomberg.com

........do you smell something?.........

I have to say these Fox News "teabaggers" must be the most retarded people in America. The same crew that voted for Bush twice in a row.

"Teabaggers are having a hard time coming to terms with the fact that "grassroots" demonstrations aren't orchestrated by corporate lobbyists. Understandable -- if you didn't have any experience organizing a demonstration that didn't have millions in free PR from Fox News and well-funded GOP fat cats providing a national infrastructure, you wouldn't know the difference. "

Firedoglake » Corporate Lobbyists Raising Money For Tea Parties

The truth hurts. America has been run by corporate interests for 8 years, this includes Mexican slave labor, Indian labor, and Chinese slave lablor at the expense of the American middle class.

GM is currently the lastest battleground, Mexicans will build cars of $5 per hour and no health care and no taxes, he makes sense, that is the kind of society I want to live in...

Even IF I AGREED with you A, you'd call me a name andSAY I WAS WRONG...

"you putting people in boxes'

Yes, I am putting people into 3 boxes -

1. illegal Mexicans that must be deported. I don't care what race they are - white or black
2. Retarded Americans that watch Fox News and then attend corporate lobby anti-Obama paid tax teaparties - because Obama want to remove tax loopholes for the rich and corporates.
3. Patriotic Americans that are not cowards, nor afraid of the truth and undestand how this country was build.

GM's future is in the control of Washington politics.

GM Bankruptcy would be a positive, washington lets a big firm go under. Now only if they would let Citi and Bank of America go under.

With both GM management and the UAW out of the way perhaps some innovation in the auto industry could take place in America.

GM workers will be fine, they can buy houses for about $1,000 a pop in Flint Michigan, then great city that they destroyed.

Look on the bright side, no more GM or Chrysler will help reduce production of CO2, so that's a win for the administration.

A loss for everyone else, but this is about dogma not jobs !

'GM is currently the lastest battleground' Huh?

"no more GM or Chrysler will help reduce production of CO2"

...........what a dumb ass!.............GM and Chrysler BK will eliminate all cars from the road?.............this will help foreign car makers.......Japanese car makers' , even Korean Kia stocks surged after the possibility of GM BK..........

GM is going bankrupt because of 'globalization'...the race to the bottom for wages...and also the credit contraction where not many people or businesses can get loans...the global credit crunch has accelerated the demise brought on by globalization. We now are entering the Twilight Zone of Globalization and the global derivatives 'credit crunch'...or massive credit contraction...plus stock market hanky panky...and bailouts for financialization losses...etc.

Ha Ha, smelly toilets have become cultural,

Of course, at some point that prohibition becomes cultural rather than simply practical, and even in houses with perfectly-functioning modern toilets that can take anything you throw at them, you will still see the TP bins.
And, oddly, in just about any semi-public venue frequented by recent Central American immigrants. The Home Depot in Falls Church, VA, has trash cans next to the toilets (men's room!), I suppose because otherwise the poopy TP would end up on the floor. I've been to Guatemala and El Salvador, and have been on the other side of the equation--it was virtually impossible for me to remember to not drop my toilet paper in the toilet. Old habits die hard, I suppose.

'carbon dioxide levels were above 1000 ppm for majority of the last 500 million.'

Any interest in posting global average temperatures during the majority of that period, even allowing the extent to which such data is extrapolated and inferred? The answer might simply be that averages temperatures were higher with higher carbon cycle gases in the atmosphere, but you are welcome to demonstrate, with data, how that is an incorrect summation of that time period.

Since that observed correlation is considered to be due to causation. A causation which can be measured in isolation, though it should be apparent to everyone that a single element in a complex system cannot be so easily reduced to follow its effects with deceptive simplicity. Cloud formation, for example, is a major variable, both for cooling and warming - but the greenhouse effect is not in dispute, especially when viewed over the 500 million year time span you cite.

More on how Mexicans rather then organize into social groups they live with smelly toilets.

The truth so hurts. Mexica (Catholic Latino in the bigger sense) cultures are so family based they cannot even organize basic social structures like buidling codes to deal with smelly toilets. DO NOT invest in any latino culture until the culture changes and they start believing in indiviuals above the family mafi unit.

Mexico Smells Like Sh!t
I just got a whiff of sewer gas, it came in the windows. Normally I don’t smell sewer from my home. But for some reason a few minutes ago I smelled sewer. Thankfully that’s over now. I hope it doesn’t come back. But the stink inspired me to finally write a post I’ve been thinking about for a long time.

Mexico often smells like shit. In Cancun I sometimes smell shit when I’m in the hotel zone, near the posh houses and big hotels. And sometimes you smell it when you are in the nice parts of downtown. And it goes without saying that you smell it when you go to the poorest neighborhoods.

It makes sense that in a 3rd world country there will be problems with the public sewer system. They don’t have the money here to keep the roads properly repaired and they don’t have the money to pick up the garbage that’s strewn around the city, so why should the sewer system work perfectly? It shouldn’t. But actually that’s not why I’m writing this post.

I’m writing because in Mexico it’s common for the inside of people’s houses to smell like shit. This is because it’s very common here for drains to be put in without water traps. A water trap is a device that works by keeping an amount of water between the room and the sewer, so the sewer gas can’t escape. A water trap for a floor drain or a sink costs less than $50 MXP (under $5 USD). There is no reason on earth not to put one in every drain in the house.

And yet I have wealthy friends in Cancun whose answer to having a stinky sewer gas filled bathroom is to keep the door shut. Instead of solving the shit smell problem with a $5 USD part they opt to keep the door shut? Does this make sense? Not to me it doesn’t. I don’t know how people can justify not fixing this, unless they secretly LIKE the smell. Ick!

First there was the dreaded 'smog', then the dreaded 'hole in the ozone layer. Remember if you used hairspray you were opening the ozone hole. Now it's the dreaded 'global warming' that causing the seas to rise and turning frigid zones into tropical heat zones. It is a fact the Uranus is getting hotter along with Mars and Venus and the other planets. I mean we don't want to make the 'scientific research' of global warming into a religion. If you are the same A who doesn't like religion, why would you wanna make globalwarming a religion? How is the ozone layer and smog doing? Any better?

"How does it smell in New York City? "

............yeah , whole city is one big public toilet...........

It's not central banking per se. It's the particular central bankers in question. It's not banking per se that's the problem. It's particular bankers in question. It's not politics per say in question...it's certain politicians who are in question. It's not capitalism per se...it's those who claim to be Capitalists and who are not that are in question...

..........COx emission is good opportunity to make mney as investors.....

..........carbon credit exchange market will boom in the near future .........

'tin-foil brigade'=profiling, generalization, prejudgement
'teabaggers'=same as above

Shithead=profiling of someone without a pea trap

uno mundo, if it makes you feel any better, it is my impression that you are a shithead on a totally personal, individual level

What if we just bomb the f-ing japs again with a massive clean energy carbon import car jesus tax and give GM all the Honda plants run by the non-union blacks down south, those we have not yet locked up. Perhaps you underestimate America's ability to re-invent the unaviodable truth when it come to the unaviodable truth.

'Perhaps you underestimate America's ability to re-invent the unaviodable truth when it come to the unaviodable truth.'

Or at least re-invent spelling when describing fantasies.

Lucifer, at this point the discussion is where it belongs - attempting to use whatever data, or reasonable inferences from it, to understand dynamic processes that take place on a planetary scale.

And though there is currently no research I'm aware of which details paleo cometary water replenishment (hell, the fact that it is happening today, as revealed through satellite observation, is about as accepted as plate tectonics in the 1940s), I tend to be very skeptical of most data which purports to use isotopes or element propotionality to support various claims when extending far into the past. Not dismissive, as your cite shows just how easily just a couple of assumptions can change entire chains of reasoning.

But I still don't understand the reasoning here -
'There have many periods of millions of years when the earth's atmosphere had more than 1 % CO2... Funny thing.. most of the plants, algae, forests, swamps, bogs that got converted into coal and oil also come from those high atmospheric CO2 eras!'
Why would it be a funny thing that times of high CO2 concentration were also times were high amounts of carbon were captured and then over geological time frames removed from the atmosphere/biosphere? It would seem a necessary precondition, and not an anomaly, though the reverse would be counter-intuitive.

'And apart from volcanism that accompanied these CO2 increases, there was no negative effect on overall biomass or species.. quite the opposite.. these ages had more species than other eras!'
Possibly - the fossil record is not exactly well written for later readers.

An example -
'The Permian-Triassic (P-T or PT) extinction event, sometimes informally called the Great Dying, was an extinction event that occurred approximately 251 million years ago, defining the boundary between the Permian and Triassic periods. It was the Earth's most severe extinction event, with about 90 percent of all marine species and 70 percent of terrestrial vertebrate species going extinct.

For some time after the event, fungal species were the dominant form of terrestrial life. Though they only made up approximately 10 percent of remains found before and just after the extinction horizon, fungal species subsequently grew rapidly to make up nearly 100 percent of the available fossil record (Eshet et al. 1995). However, some researchers argue that fungal species did not dominate terrestrial life, as their remains have only been found in shallow marine deposits (Wignall 1996). Alternatively, others argue that fungal hypha (long, branching filament) are simply better suited for preservation and survival in the environment, creating an inaccurate representation of certain species in the fossil record (Erwin 1993).'
Mass extinction - New World Encyclopedia

The past is still being created in the present - or at least, what we consider to be the past. This is what good science entails - using data to refine our understanding. A generally flawed understanding, which should always be part of the general background of such discussions.

Where weather ends and climate starts is a basic problem in this discussion, along with so much else. It is worrying how many people point to weather to say that the climate is changing in one direction or the other, without recognizing how extremely limited our data truly is in terms of its coverage, both spatial and temporal.

As a side note - the mini-Ice Age seems to be have been on a considerably smaller scale than the entire globe. It is simply that the Europeans were effected, and recorded it. For someone concerned with euro-centric biases, be aware that the mini-Ice Age is also euro-centric, at least according to current thinking. There seems to be little to no evidence of it occurring on other continents such as South America. One reason that this may not be so widely known is that it tends to go against both major climate change camps - the Maunder Minimum happened at the same time, but the global changes of that time remain elusive, outside of that region. The same is also true of this period -
'The Year Without a Summer (also known as the Poverty Year, Eighteen Hundred and Froze to Death, and the Year There Was No Summer) was 1816, in which severe summer climate abnormalities destroyed crops in Northern Europe, the American Northeast and eastern Canada.[1][2] Historian John D. Post has called this "the last great subsistence crisis in the Western world".[3] It appears to have been caused by a volcanic winter.'
Year Without a Summer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 

The planet is much, much larger than our fairly shallow historical records even begin to suggest.

And the complexities? Again, from the article -
'It is now generally thought that the aberrations occurred because of the 5 April – 15 April, 1815 volcanic eruptions of Mount Tambora[8][9] on the island of Sumbawa, Indonesia (then part of the Dutch East Indies), the world's largest eruption in about 1,600 years with a Volcanic Explosivity Index ranking of 7, a colossal event that ejected immense amounts of volcanic dust into the upper atmosphere. (Lake Taupo's Hatepe eruption of c. 180 AD was probably of similar size, see Supervolcano.) The fact that the 1815 eruptions occurred during the middle of the Dalton Minimum (a period of unusually low solar activity) is also significant.

Other large volcanic eruptions (with VEI at least 4) during the same time frame are:

* 1812, La Soufrière on Saint Vincent in the Caribbean
* 1812, Awu on Sangihe Islands, Indonesia
* 1813, Suwanose-Jima on Ryukyu Islands, Japan
* 1814, Mayon in the Philippines

These other eruptions had already built up a substantial amount of atmospheric dust. As is common following a massive volcanic eruption, temperatures fell worldwide because less sunlight passed through the atmosphere.'

Again, it just isn't either/or in terms of climate. Notice the Dalton Minimum in terms of sunspots combined with volcanic eruptions, including the truly massive one of Tambora.

Be wary of anyone reducing complex systems to simple precepts. Unfortunately, in the public square, simplistic slogans tend to win out over explanations which attempt to depict a complicated reality.

'Climate modelers make financial quants look saintly.'
or
'Eugenics has a better claim to honesty than climate modeling.'

Makes me regret thinking you are actually making something resembling a good faith effort to explore a complex area of a science that didn't even exist fifty years ago.

By your standards, I will assume you never use any medical treatments either, since they too are as rife with 'fraud, data manipulation and extensive use of very selective data' as any other area of human understanding.

Or do you still believe that ulcers are caused by stress?

I can't resist -
'Climate models cannot do 1] or 2]. They are essentially speculation. Do you remember that word? Speculation!'

Well, better not use the speculative science of astronomy to support any of your arguments, then.

Or attempt to unravel the fossil record - after all, experimentation is simply not possible on what already exists.

'Kelvin and many other famous scientists said heavier than aircrafts were impossible.'

Finding examples of false prediction is as easy as looking at predictions. I still believe that today's geologists, with their belief that the Earth's water is exclusively volcanic in origin, are going to look as stupid as Kelvin in a generation or two - Spaceflight Now | Breaking News | Did comets water Earth?

That is an example of good science, not speculation. Though unfortunately, it may not fit your own definition - it is descriptive, after all, and the only testable point is already a given - the world's oceans exist, after all, as do the now basically indisputable ice comets hitting the atmosphere.

I think you have a fairly limited (I'm being charitable) view of what science means in the physical realm - though if you wish to dismiss chemists as scientists, feel free.

"We tried building cars in Mexico but they Mexican government is such a corrupt Mafi like organization it could never happen long term, you need to spend most of your time paying off criminals which take away the focus on business."

I get a kick out of those who post about subjects they obviously know nothing about. I am American-Mexican (dual citizenship in that order) and working for a tier-one automotive supplier in Mexico. I also worked in this business for a number of years in the US, and can make fair comparison between the two. The assembly plants for the big three and VW are normally near the top of the list in terms of productivity and quality when compared to their counterparts in the US and Canada, or Europe in the case of VW. The big three all have relatively new state-of-the-art plants (Ford-Hmo, Chrysler-Saltillo, and GM-SLP) that have higher productivity than most other North American plants (as measured in production vs hours worked, nothing to do with cheaper labor cost). While corruption certainly exist in Mexico, it is generally more prevalent in the transportation business (not that much directly with the government), quite similar to what happens in the US. VW has their issues with corruption, but they have that problem worldwide and it seems to be something they brought with them to Mexico.
I couldn't agree more with your comments regarding the danger of destruction of individual liberty. The US is the main culprit of that particular sin in the Western Hemisphere. You should turn off Fox News, get a passport, and travel.
It's a good thing you aren't racist. Your descendants will live in a country that includes the area currently made up of Canada, Mexico, and the US, and will be increasingly coffee colored and speaking Spanglish (this is a good thing. the more we mix, the more beautiful the women). Nationalism is almost as silly as racism. You aren't better than anyone else (or deserve a higher standard of living) because you had the good fortune of having been born on the "right" side of the border.