This rocket-ship really took off in August, so responsibility for this one should fall largely into Bernanke's lap. Greenspan isn't responsible for all the evil in this world.
Centro's woes may spell opportunities for a financially stronger investor. The company trades at 0.3 times book value, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.
It has been said that it's almost a once in a lifetime opportunity that assets of this quality, being primarily the Australian assets, come up for sale,'' said Colonial's Snowden.The only way a full acquisition could work is if a much larger, better capitalized group is able to take over the business.''
(end quote)
This year, the "once in a lifetime opportunity" meme will be in competition with "no-one could have foreseen" meme for the most popular line.
When the "no-one could have foreseen" line becomes unusuable because it was so obvious, then the "once in a lifetime opportunity" will become absolutely true.
Before that, beware, because you will too will have opportunity to say "no-one could have foreseen" by taking advantage of a "once in a lifetime opportunity".
Ssh! We NEED the Joseph Lewis(es) of the world (pumping up Bear Stearns) and the Hilltop Holdings (which for awhile was claiming to look at buying Downey Savings).
They make the process of shorting so much more, er, enriching.
But there are signs that Bush and Paulson are getting ready to have another tax cut to put more money in consumers' pockets. Massive government spending together with massive Fed easing may stave off recession for some time.
But there are signs that Bush and Paulson are getting ready to have another tax cut to put more money in consumers' pockets. Massive government spending together with massive Fed easing may stave off recession for some time.
--
Merrill Lynch had a report out, several months ago, that was titled Financials Are Value Traps.
One charlatan appeared on Boob-berg this morning who argued that Citi has lost $140B in market value while the write offs are never going to be $140B. Therefore, C is a great buy. No one taught this idiot that if Citi were to take even $70B in write-offs how much would the reserves be?
ac, are you suggesting commodities are in a bubble? Source? Reasons?
I disagree. Oil $150 this year, gold $1,000, agricultural commodities to the moon. Reasons: (1) peak oil, lack of supply, higher demand from Chindia (2) flight to quality (I mean real quality not those worthless treasuries), inflation and (3) evolving tastes towards better foods in developing countries, more severe weather adversely impacting crop yields, and diversion of grains to alternative fuels.
Integrity,validity,timeliness,accuracy - buzzwords for a motivational seminar? That was so exciting that I'm ready to go sell something, anything, or maybe I should be buying something. I'm so confused now that our flashy, good looking, motivational speaker has cashed his check and left the room. Wait, here's my four color brochure. That's right it was buy, buy condos somewhere. Yeah! we're going to be rich.
Here in Canuckistan, the much-hated GST is being cut from 6% to 5%. My guess is inflation will jump by a little more than 1% as all those pizza slices go from $0.94 to $0.95 (plus GST).
Two comments: (1) foreign investment in US financials, even if premature, has the benefit of more or less guaranteeing that they will not go bust; they will always be bailed out even at a big cost. But that does not say they are now bargains. As the crisis goes on and on they will be driven further down until no one wants them; that would be the time to buy, as Buffett reminds us. (2) They may seem cheap at present PE ratios; but when new, far lower earnings, or no earnings at all, are factored in, their PE ratios will not be indicative of "bargains."
Well, let's take Citi for example:
P/E is 7.82 right now and the div yield is 7.40%, but the "E" part may very well based on SIV-rama fantasy land or the likes so I would be very surprised if they don't announce further big time losses in 2008.
Otherwise with that huge dividend (which I assume will be cut back in the near future) if someone could guarantee that the share price would stay the same for 12 months it would be a bargain!
BTW- if neither ConjureBag nor Weather Helm want to take the job of Omsbudsman, I'll do it. I don't have any qualifications to speak of except an unused email address. I would plan on just doctoring up the reply that Weather Helm posted last night occasionally for the sake of variety.
(1) foreign investment in US financials, even if premature, has the benefit of more or less guaranteeing that they will not go bust; they will always be bailed out even at a big cost. But that does not say they are now bargains. As the crisis goes on and on they will be driven further down until no one wants them; that would be the time to buy, as Buffett reminds us.
I hate to keep drawing parallels to the dot-com crash, but jeez, they're simply unavoidable.
All the way down from $80, we had analysts and columnists opining month after month that CSCO was a screaming buy. Cheap on the present earnings, cheap on the earnings growth, cheap on the underlying value of the business, cheap, cheap, cheap. Ditto AMZN, EBAY, and YHOO, and even the Redbacks and 3Coms and Suns of the second tier.
In the parlance of the industry, they were "early."
In the real world, they were what I like to call "wrong."
The problem was that they saw the stocks as cheap on metrics that presumed this or that business was worthless, or this or that revenue stream would stop growing. In other words, the knowable unknowables.
Turns out it was the unknowable unknowables that mattered most ... like how, and in what form, the industry would survive.
Here we are, not even a decade later, and the same companies are spinning the same problems as opportunities through the same channels. And the whole charade is so transparent that I'm reminded of those old Joe Isuzu commercials. All we're missing is that little floating byline reading, "He's lying." We could break it out every time one of these lemmings talks up the "bottom" in the financials and brokerages on a CNBC segment.
Tanta...I must ask, did you remember to have a low loop to act as a trap in the discharge hose running to the drain? And did you bust your knuckles putting the kickplate on with those miserably tiny screws?
I don't envy you (after a few myself) the installation of a dishwasher, but is good to have hands on something real now and again.
America lures not just hard working bodies wanting the life we enjoy, but hard cash from newly cash sloshing foriegn investors sending cash instead of themselves.
I offer the English in the 19th century and the Japanese only a few decades ago to support the premise.
The image you get when you read "yankee trader, horse trader, or jew financier" has reason in the image...and the bunch of us is still sharp and getting at it.
Whatta country!!! Whatta system!!!...buy thier goodies with cheap dollars, then have them invest those dollars in us, where we will deftly divide them from what value they figgered they had.
Me? Wheee!
the idea of financials rebounding in 2008 as stated by Citi.... to be super-extra generous sounds extremely optimistic.
But what do I know, maybe Citi shares will be trading around $60 this time next year and mortage pigs might fly.
i don't think you're allowed to copyright the letter "c".
How does Pets.com look?
Lest anyone be overly worried about 2008, we're getting started out with quite the bubble:
Bloomberg.com:
Commodity Futures
This rocket-ship really took off in August, so responsibility for this one should fall largely into Bernanke's lap. Greenspan isn't responsible for all the evil in this world.
OT, Warren Buffett rushing for the post-Xmas sales
Warren Buffett Opens His Wallet - DealBook Blog - NYTimes.com
From the Bloomberg in the Centro post below:
(quote)
`Once in a Lifetime'
Centro's woes may spell opportunities for a financially stronger investor. The company trades at 0.3 times book value, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.
It has been said that it's almost a once in a lifetime opportunity that assets of this quality, being primarily the Australian assets, come up for sale,'' said Colonial's Snowden.The only way a full acquisition could work is if a much larger, better capitalized group is able to take over the business.''
(end quote)
This year, the "once in a lifetime opportunity" meme will be in competition with "no-one could have foreseen" meme for the most popular line.
When the "no-one could have foreseen" line becomes unusuable because it was so obvious, then the "once in a lifetime opportunity" will become absolutely true.
Before that, beware, because you will too will have opportunity to say "no-one could have foreseen" by taking advantage of a "once in a lifetime opportunity".
ISM at 47.7
People panicking in the streets.
Ssh! We NEED the Joseph Lewis(es) of the world (pumping up Bear Stearns) and the Hilltop Holdings (which for awhile was claiming to look at buying Downey Savings).
They make the process of shorting so much more, er, enriching.
I am trying not to take the bait but the financial media is populated by master baiters.
But there are signs that Bush and Paulson are getting ready to have another tax cut to put more money in consumers' pockets. Massive government spending together with massive Fed easing may stave off recession for some time.
But there are signs that Bush and Paulson are getting ready to have another tax cut to put more money in consumers' pockets. Massive government spending together with massive Fed easing may stave off recession for some time.
What if we're already in a recession?
--
Merrill Lynch had a report out, several months ago, that was titled Financials Are Value Traps.
One charlatan appeared on Boob-berg this morning who argued that Citi has lost $140B in market value while the write offs are never going to be $140B. Therefore, C is a great buy. No one taught this idiot that if Citi were to take even $70B in write-offs how much would the reserves be?
Jas
But there are signs that Bush and Paulson are getting ready to have another tax cut to put more money in consumers' pockets.
Because it put oh so much money in consumer's pockets the first time.
ac, are you suggesting commodities are in a bubble? Source? Reasons?
I disagree. Oil $150 this year, gold $1,000, agricultural commodities to the moon. Reasons: (1) peak oil, lack of supply, higher demand from Chindia (2) flight to quality (I mean real quality not those worthless treasuries), inflation and (3) evolving tastes towards better foods in developing countries, more severe weather adversely impacting crop yields, and diversion of grains to alternative fuels.
"Because it put oh so much money in consumer's pockets the first time."
I don't know about you, man, but I scored in 2001 with $300 cash money from the government. $300 bucks! It was suh-weet! Sorry you didn't get any.
Unfortunately, a President needs Congress for tax cuts and neither the Dems nor Reps will go along this year. It's just Bush/Paulson rhetoric.
The 2001 and 2003 tax cuts (and the extension of those cuts from 2008 to 2010) were huge short-term stimulus with great long-term cost.
Integrity,validity,timeliness,accuracy - buzzwords for a motivational seminar? That was so exciting that I'm ready to go sell something, anything, or maybe I should be buying something. I'm so confused now that our flashy, good looking, motivational speaker has cashed his check and left the room. Wait, here's my four color brochure. That's right it was buy, buy condos somewhere. Yeah! we're going to be rich.
Here in Canuckistan, the much-hated GST is being cut from 6% to 5%. My guess is inflation will jump by a little more than 1% as all those pizza slices go from $0.94 to $0.95 (plus GST).
"Here in Canuckistan..."
Canuckistan! Conjure thinks that's a hoot!
Two comments: (1) foreign investment in US financials, even if premature, has the benefit of more or less guaranteeing that they will not go bust; they will always be bailed out even at a big cost. But that does not say they are now bargains. As the crisis goes on and on they will be driven further down until no one wants them; that would be the time to buy, as Buffett reminds us. (2) They may seem cheap at present PE ratios; but when new, far lower earnings, or no earnings at all, are factored in, their PE ratios will not be indicative of "bargains."
Well, let's take Citi for example:
P/E is 7.82 right now and the div yield is 7.40%, but the "E" part may very well based on SIV-rama fantasy land or the likes so I would be very surprised if they don't announce further big time losses in 2008.
Otherwise with that huge dividend (which I assume will be cut back in the near future) if someone could guarantee that the share price would stay the same for 12 months it would be a bargain!
Tanta it sounds like a reformat might help. Have you tried that?
Wouldn't it be easier to remember V.I.T.A., vita?
BTW- if neither ConjureBag nor Weather Helm want to take the job of Omsbudsman, I'll do it. I don't have any qualifications to speak of except an unused email address. I would plan on just doctoring up the reply that Weather Helm posted last night occasionally for the sake of variety.
I'm thinking of having a "Don't take the bait in 2008" tee shirt printed. It's relevant in oh so many ways...
The Ogden Nash poem has the additional virtue of being a palindrome.
What if we're already in a recession?
ac | 01.02.08 - 10:25 am |
Well... we could always change the methodology used to calculate it... that should keep it at bay awhile longer...
(1) foreign investment in US financials, even if premature, has the benefit of more or less guaranteeing that they will not go bust; they will always be bailed out even at a big cost. But that does not say they are now bargains. As the crisis goes on and on they will be driven further down until no one wants them; that would be the time to buy, as Buffett reminds us.
I hate to keep drawing parallels to the dot-com crash, but jeez, they're simply unavoidable.
All the way down from $80, we had analysts and columnists opining month after month that CSCO was a screaming buy. Cheap on the present earnings, cheap on the earnings growth, cheap on the underlying value of the business, cheap, cheap, cheap. Ditto AMZN, EBAY, and YHOO, and even the Redbacks and 3Coms and Suns of the second tier.
In the parlance of the industry, they were "early."
In the real world, they were what I like to call "wrong."
The problem was that they saw the stocks as cheap on metrics that presumed this or that business was worthless, or this or that revenue stream would stop growing. In other words, the knowable unknowables.
Turns out it was the unknowable unknowables that mattered most ... like how, and in what form, the industry would survive.
Here we are, not even a decade later, and the same companies are spinning the same problems as opportunities through the same channels. And the whole charade is so transparent that I'm reminded of those old Joe Isuzu commercials. All we're missing is that little floating byline reading, "He's lying." We could break it out every time one of these lemmings talks up the "bottom" in the financials and brokerages on a CNBC segment.
Tanta...I must ask, did you remember to have a low loop to act as a trap in the discharge hose running to the drain? And did you bust your knuckles putting the kickplate on with those miserably tiny screws?
I don't envy you (after a few myself) the installation of a dishwasher, but is good to have hands on something real now and again.
America lures not just hard working bodies wanting the life we enjoy, but hard cash from newly cash sloshing foriegn investors sending cash instead of themselves.
I offer the English in the 19th century and the Japanese only a few decades ago to support the premise.
The image you get when you read "yankee trader, horse trader, or jew financier" has reason in the image...and the bunch of us is still sharp and getting at it.
Whatta country!!! Whatta system!!!...buy thier goodies with cheap dollars, then have them invest those dollars in us, where we will deftly divide them from what value they figgered they had.
Ya gotta love us.