Now it starts...
Morgan Stanley Announces Restructuring of Mortgage Business
Tuesday October 2, 12:13 pm ET
"Net Reduction-In-Force of 600 Employees Reflects Current Market Conditions" Expired
In case anyone is undecided on what to make of all this, here is one opinion from the Telegraph:
"Jump off the deranged bull now" Telegraph Blogs
As a loyal Ford buyer this just pains me, they've made real strides with the Fusion and even the new Taurus. But the F-150 was refashioned for people who want to own a "truck" but who really don't plan an using it for any practical purpose. The bed is too short if you get an extended cab, and the side walls are just oddly high.
If you want a real Ford truck you need an F-250. Those start at over 50k. Meanwhile the Toyota Tundra is a solid vehicle, and the new Silverado is a nice effort as well. Even Nissan makes a solid truck (though it's an absolute fuel hog, even for a pickup).
Sorry for going all auto geek for a second, but I really don't know what they were trying to do when they produced this version of the F-150.
Also the decision to not introduce the new Ford Focus (same basic body as the Mazda 3, sold everywhere else in the world but not the US) was short sighted in the extreme. Ford didn't want to invest in a new UAW small car line. But in doing so they essentially ceded to small car market to competitors.
Hey everything is fine with Ford. They can rest assured that the recent drop in sales was just a result of consumers taking what we call in economic circles a "breather" before continuing with an orgy of credit fueled consumption. The economic fundamentals are very strong don't you know? Buy buy buy!!!
Metrics Wonk, as you point out, the current Ford Focus is beyond old. Its embarrassing. Not only do they completely cede the small car market (which they used to do well with in the days of the Escort), but they leave a bad taste in your mouth about their brand.
I am not really up on US tax laws (okay not at all) but is there not some sort of tax credit for big gas guzzling vehicles if you use them for work? And didn't this have some bearing on the volume of these types of vehicles purchased? So to the extent that Ford lobbied for this legislation they are responsible for their own fate. Oil is over $80 and it's not going down, especially with the dollar tanking. Expect people to want smaller and more fuel efficient cars in future. I don't think Ford is prepared for this but they should have been.
It's not that just that Ford was stupid for not bring over the C1 Focus (Focus, Mazda3, V40/V50 shared platform), it's also that the belated North American redesign is uglier by far (IMHO) than what it replaced, as well as dropping 3 body styles (though a rather execrable coupe was added).
Ford should just fire all of its NA management and start over.
Actually my wife owns a 2005 Ford Focus. It's a solid car with good gas mileage. As of 2005 they at least put a modern engine in it. So it isn't a piece of crap. But on looks it just gets demolished. It was ugly when it was introduced and the years have not been kind to the styling.
They will never make a ton of money on these cars, but when you have a solid stake in that market it builds positive brand image and loyalty in younger buyers.
PS.: If you like geeking out over the sales figures by model, vehicle class, etc., the stats for all companies are usually posted here a few days into each month.
sterlingerl - I do not kow about any specific tax credit for big trucks. I just write mine off over a few years the same as any other vehicle. BUT, it sure is the best "key-man" insurance I can get for my business with all the nutty drivers in California. People drive 70 mph in bumper to bumper traffic and neighborhood arteries. I have been hit twice by other people and had my trucks practically totalled, while I just walk away.
Metrics Wonk - I agree that the F150 is useless for many jobs. I think Chevy and Dodge are smart about having some big trucks with much better carrying capacity than F150, Tundra, and Titan but more affordable than the F250.
262 visitors on line...tis the market declining, yes?
Metrics, you are depressing...but I can fixit: next month's Ford sales will be glorious with this month's low bar to easily bound off from. [No incentive action this time? No room for incentives? IIRC there is a very serious volatility here, q3-4 in the BEA releases.]
You need to read gng and realize how important a month of inclement weather can drive Explorer sales right into the mud.
You make it sound like the company is deliberately bein driven into a snowbank...is there another LBO for private equity here?
Ford recognized a few years ago that the overall automotive market will contract heavily in the next few years.
They are simply beating all other manufacturers to this reality. I would wait to see their balance sheet at the end of this year before making any dire predictions.
Anecdotal evidence: I do not own a car (haven't for years), but I do rent cars 5-6 times a year. The car I get seems to be fairly random, but I get fewer and fewer Fords (and more and more Koreans). The Ford vehicles I do get are very well built. Styling is not what I would choose, but the cars are built as well as anyone else. I would guess that their long-term warranty costs are dropping dramatically.
Volvo Cars of North America Sales Report for September
IRVINE, CA (October 2, 2007) Volvo Cars of North America, LLC (VCNA) reports sales of
8,425 units in the United States* for the month, representing a decrease of 13.1 percent
compared to the same period last year. For the year, sales are down 9.9 percent in the U.S.
"It is well that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."
-- Henry Ford
The state of American car design is pathetic. Any mildly popular "American" car is actually designed by overseas partners who know what they're doing (Ford Fusion by Mazda, GM epsilon platform (Pontica G6) by Opel), and then the American side screws them up with horrible styling and cheap interiors.
"Anecdotal evidence: I do not own a car (haven't for years), but I do rent cars 5-6 times a year. The car I get seems to be fairly random, but I get fewer and fewer Fords (and more and more Koreans). The Ford vehicles I do get are very well built."
I rented several cars this summer, and oddly I never got a Ford, either. I got a few GM cars, Korean cars, and a Toyota or two.
The American cars were all right, just... clunky. Designed by committee. Controls in the wrong place, didn't handle well, jerky trannies, not "smooth" in any way.
The big surprise was the Hyundai Sonata; not the best car overall, but it drove like a good old American freeway land yacht of the grand tradition. Just enough road feel for control, not enough to tire you out.
The American companies engineer cash flows, not cars. The idea is not just to make money, but how to make money making a good car that people want. Detroit doesn't know how to do that, or even want to.
It's not just anecdotal evidence, Ford announced a couple years ago that they were no longer going to put so much of their production into fleet sales to rental agencies. They made almost no money off them in good times and lost cash in bad.
To go complete auto geek for a second. The Fusion was based on the 427 concept car, which was designed by an american. Ford 427 :: Concept Car Database
I'm fairly certain the Fusion design was majority US as well. The common Ford/Mazda/Volvo chassis is another matter. But each model was build off that common starting point by the respective companies.
I have noticed that Nissan has started playing an advertisement lately that involves a train locomotive pulling a truck frame against a beam using chains. To nobodies surprise, the chain breaks before the frame does. I would expect this to happen to a 50-year old truck frame, let alone a brand-new one. Anyway, what caught my attention was the subtle jab about building a fully-boxed frame instead of using C-shaped frame rails. I'm not a truck guy and even I know that Toyota is the only manufacturer that uses C-shaped frame rails.
I'm beginning to believe that Toyota is taking more truck customers from Nissan than they are taking from Ford or GM. And also that Nissan feels that Toyota is their most vulnerable competitor in the full-size truck market.
Tantalum's big claim to fame in the metals world is that it's used in the production of capacitors, explains Kevin Kerr, which are important components in the manufacturing of mobile phones, laptops, PDAs, game devices, digital cameras and everything that makes the big world a little smaller.
The growing demand for these products is why I believe the level of consumption of tantalum is going to exceed current industrial commodities like copper (construction, electronics), lead (car batteries), zinc (galvanized steel), etc.
The only people who can afford a new F-Series pickup are union workers, gubbermint workers, and rich coastal types. I own one, a '97. I'll never buy another car or truck as long as I live. The war on my middle class a$$ has been a complete victory.
jwb- Their decision to build the Fusion in Mexico was a slap in the face no doubt. It goes hand in hand with not building the new Focus in the US. I understand that they needed to sell on price to really give the Fusion a chance at breaking into the Altima/Camry market. But it really undercut alot of their moral authority as a "domestic" car maker.
All Ford needs is a small 4 door that is comfortable and reliable that holds its' value and gets good gas mileage that they can sell for a profit at $20,000. It's call a Honda Civic. They should buy one of every single model year of the CVCC through Civic that made it to these shores and reverse engineer to create a competetive 2011 model. They won't because they can't. Most US manufacturing engineering talent is either gone or misallocated. Instead of compostie bodies and fly-by-wire digital buss wiring we get rapid turnover hydroforming to make frequent subtle styling changes to the exact same running equipment a time traveller from the 50s could puzzle out. Hey, squeeze out another model year of drum brakes for a few cents of quarterly profits or keep solid axles because there's two more years in the subcontractor agreement. Can't fire the line workers so cut back on the advanced materials research arm that is a cost center with no immediate bottom line anyway.
Trucks make me laugh. Just sold my Dodge 2002 ram 1500 quadcab.
The 13.7 miles per gallon in the city was a bit much to live with on a regular basis. On the other hand, that truck had power. 5.7 liters of power- 360 to you unreconstructed types. But, sadly, I have no need for a third vehicle, and I had to move that truck before the great contractor repo excess hits.
I pretty much gave it away at just above tradein bluebook, but locally 3-4k below bluebook is already on offer for trades. So, I believe that we are about to have a cpi index drop in vehicle values;-}
Just another thing to offset the rising price of cornflakes.
I will buy another truck when the prices are down and gas finally reaches where it should be based on $81 barrel crude.
By the way the fleet mileage for my family is now 24 mpg city;-}
Since the car sales were down more than trucks, I'm not sure gas prices can be blamed. Retail sales were only down 9%. Rental sales were a big reason for down sales. Toyota was down 4.4% for the month. Toyota will do fine in the urban truck market. They aren't really competing against Ford for the rural truck market.
w - tantalum has been in tight supply for many years now as it tends to come from areas of the world which aren't very stable. That being the case, hasn't there been a lot of work in developing alternatives to tantalum for use in capacitors? [and now bringing this back to cars] I don't think the so-called super-capacitors that are being developed as an alternative to batteries for electric cars use tantalum.
Okay I found the tax thing I was thinking of. "...The explosion of SUV, pickup, and minivan sales in Americas passenger vehicle fleet has turned this small business benefit into a massive loophole in the tax law..."
Seb-
Middle class = $30k to 100k per year. Coastal people get a get a COLA bump. London readers should triple these figures.
Per ford-
Don't own, only rent a car about five times a year. From my infrequent observations, seems like:
-Hyundai is moving up quickly in quality
-Toyota cars feel surprisingly chintzy, although the Prius has a cool spaceship feel
-Ford and Chrysler are kind of running in place, better than they were five years ago, yet still behind competition
-Renault/Citroen are underrated
-Any German car is perfectly acceptable for driving on the Autobahn or pretty much anywhere else.
"The big surprise was the Hyundai Sonata; not the best car overall, but it drove like a good old American freeway land yacht of the grand tradition. Just enough road feel for control, not enough to tire you out."
Agreed. I travel a lot on business and rent a lot of cars. My favorite so far has been the Sonata - even to make me consider looking into Hyundai next time I'm in the market for a car.
Middle class in America for the last 30 year is feeling secure in your own home, good schools, health insurance, and the ability to go wherever you want whenever you want to.
And, a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow to get you through your declining years.
Sippn- yup, as an economist, I practice free riding;-}
But the volvo station wagon does seat upto four urchins.
Add a few more if you put the dog net up and pack the back. I refrain from using the roof rack, even though it is legal here in 'Zona cause the wife frowns on it. She also wouldn't let me put the kids and the dogs in the back of the pickup. Something about rural low class. I explained how to tell who owned the pickup truck on the Rez to her once and she made me promise never to repeat it.
Ah well, rural humor...
Stock market looks like it has figured out the party is over and is wondering who gets to panic first.
Someday this war's gonna end...under the next administration.
"Middle class in America for the last 30 year is feeling secure in your own home, good schools, health insurance, and the ability to go wherever you want whenever you want to.
And, a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow to get you through your declining years."
Interesting that you pick 30 years, because the middle class by that definition has been in decline for 30 years, by my definition.
Pre:1975 or so, every bread truck driver and school custodian was a member of the middle class by your definition, if you substitute "adequate pension" for "pot of gold", and "boat or RV or big land yacht" for "ability to go anywhere." Most of them had zip debt, too, outside of 30-year mortgages and 36-month auto financing.
All Ford needs is a small 4 door that is comfortable and reliable that holds its' value and gets good gas mileage that they can sell for a profit at $20,000.
They did (once upon a time) make a car called a Ford Tempo. Met most of those requirements. In this day and age, the Koreans would likely chew it alive.
I know is a wee itty bitty part of sales, but my extended family has always bought Fords since they hired daddy when we were poor way back in 1960. But this year they closed the local plant (norfolk, va)...we don't buy Ford anymore. I rather hope Ford goes bankrupt...and got the first inkling they were headed for trouble when the latest airy headed Ford rattled on and on about green crap....and yes, I am short Ford..and loving it.
re: the Fusion being american-designed... I'm not so sure about that. sure, american's may have put all the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle together, but they mostly served as integrators and, as I said before, to design the interior and exterior look. The platform (frame/suspension) is designed by Mazda, all the transmission are asian, the 4 cylinder is a Mazda engine. The V6 is a Ford design.
The other problem they have with the F series is a high cost basis. Every single F-Series has 4 doors (the regular cab has a skinny door to access the area behind the seat). Sure is different from the rudimentary old beasts they turned out in the 70s. Course I think there'll be a lot more of those old 70s fords running 30 years from now than the current gen.
Dear Ford: Why did you ditch the Taurus (Sable) station wagons? 8 seatbelts, very roomy interior, good gas mileage, easy fold down back seats, smooth ride, reliable, all the options, and one of the only SUV/minivan alternatives. I pass many of those relics per day. Sigh. I'd like to know the name of the person who made that decision.
Middle class people have jobs. edgar, not so much. I pick up cans on the side of the road when I feel like it. Boycott everything, the corporations have harvested the fruit from the consumer tree, but have neglected to water them with wages. I buy as little as possible. Screw them, screw them all.
Ah, but the station wagons are less prone to rollovers than the SUV and the gas mileage is much better. Easier to park and smaller. Less obnoxious. Let me whine.
Oh, for solid axles on a small, bare bones, diesel 4x4! Every time I see the absurd suspension/drive line on the back of a Ford escape I want to throw up.
(I drive an absurd, gas guzzling '78 landcruiser, with a carbureted inline six straight from the 50's, so I'm a target market of about 30 guys, all of whom sit around talking about how they won't drive any vehicle with an engine in it that can't be fixed with a hammer and a stick.)
Oh God, I hope nobody was short Ford stock.
Hey, Dow 14,000. What, me worry?
Now it starts...
Morgan Stanley Announces Restructuring of Mortgage Business
Tuesday October 2, 12:13 pm ET
"Net Reduction-In-Force of 600 Employees Reflects Current Market Conditions"
Expired
In case anyone is undecided on what to make of all this, here is one opinion from the Telegraph:
"Jump off the deranged bull now"
Telegraph Blogs
What's that tree falling in the fast declining US economy forest ?
Nothing to see here....move along !
As a loyal Ford buyer this just pains me, they've made real strides with the Fusion and even the new Taurus. But the F-150 was refashioned for people who want to own a "truck" but who really don't plan an using it for any practical purpose. The bed is too short if you get an extended cab, and the side walls are just oddly high.
If you want a real Ford truck you need an F-250. Those start at over 50k. Meanwhile the Toyota Tundra is a solid vehicle, and the new Silverado is a nice effort as well. Even Nissan makes a solid truck (though it's an absolute fuel hog, even for a pickup).
Sorry for going all auto geek for a second, but I really don't know what they were trying to do when they produced this version of the F-150.
Also the decision to not introduce the new Ford Focus (same basic body as the Mazda 3, sold everywhere else in the world but not the US) was short sighted in the extreme. Ford didn't want to invest in a new UAW small car line. But in doing so they essentially ceded to small car market to competitors.
It's depressing to watch honestly.
Toyota laughs
It was the weather. Unseasonably late rains decimated the Explorer crop.
Hey everything is fine with Ford. They can rest assured that the recent drop in sales was just a result of consumers taking what we call in economic circles a "breather" before continuing with an orgy of credit fueled consumption. The economic fundamentals are very strong don't you know? Buy buy buy!!!
Metrics Wonk, as you point out, the current Ford Focus is beyond old. Its embarrassing. Not only do they completely cede the small car market (which they used to do well with in the days of the Escort), but they leave a bad taste in your mouth about their brand.
"market takes a breather"
translation . . .
on oxygen , in back of ambulance
I am not really up on US tax laws (okay not at all) but is there not some sort of tax credit for big gas guzzling vehicles if you use them for work? And didn't this have some bearing on the volume of these types of vehicles purchased? So to the extent that Ford lobbied for this legislation they are responsible for their own fate. Oil is over $80 and it's not going down, especially with the dollar tanking. Expect people to want smaller and more fuel efficient cars in future. I don't think Ford is prepared for this but they should have been.
This dismal news coincides with my observation of gradually increasing used 'for sale' automobiles parked next to busy streets and intersections.
It's not that just that Ford was stupid for not bring over the C1 Focus (Focus, Mazda3, V40/V50 shared platform), it's also that the belated North American redesign is uglier by far (IMHO) than what it replaced, as well as dropping 3 body styles (though a rather execrable coupe was added).
Ford should just fire all of its NA management and start over.
iceman,
Actually my wife owns a 2005 Ford Focus. It's a solid car with good gas mileage. As of 2005 they at least put a modern engine in it. So it isn't a piece of crap. But on looks it just gets demolished. It was ugly when it was introduced and the years have not been kind to the styling.
They will never make a ton of money on these cars, but when you have a solid stake in that market it builds positive brand image and loyalty in younger buyers.
Are things still "contained"?
PS.: If you like geeking out over the sales figures by model, vehicle class, etc., the stats for all companies are usually posted here a few days into each month.
Monthly Sales Results - GM Inside News Forum
sterlingerl - I do not kow about any specific tax credit for big trucks. I just write mine off over a few years the same as any other vehicle. BUT, it sure is the best "key-man" insurance I can get for my business with all the nutty drivers in California. People drive 70 mph in bumper to bumper traffic and neighborhood arteries. I have been hit twice by other people and had my trucks practically totalled, while I just walk away.
Metrics Wonk - I agree that the F150 is useless for many jobs. I think Chevy and Dodge are smart about having some big trucks with much better carrying capacity than F150, Tundra, and Titan but more affordable than the F250.
The F250 is for those rich firemen. Oh and the MEW crowd.
262 visitors on line...tis the market declining, yes?
Metrics, you are depressing...but I can fixit: next month's Ford sales will be glorious with this month's low bar to easily bound off from. [No incentive action this time? No room for incentives? IIRC there is a very serious volatility here, q3-4 in the BEA releases.]
You need to read gng and realize how important a month of inclement weather can drive Explorer sales right into the mud.
You make it sound like the company is deliberately bein driven into a snowbank...is there another LBO for private equity here?
Ford recognized a few years ago that the overall automotive market will contract heavily in the next few years.
They are simply beating all other manufacturers to this reality. I would wait to see their balance sheet at the end of this year before making any dire predictions.
Anecdotal evidence: I do not own a car (haven't for years), but I do rent cars 5-6 times a year. The car I get seems to be fairly random, but I get fewer and fewer Fords (and more and more Koreans). The Ford vehicles I do get are very well built. Styling is not what I would choose, but the cars are built as well as anyone else. I would guess that their long-term warranty costs are dropping dramatically.
Volvo Cars of North America Sales Report for September
IRVINE, CA (October 2, 2007) Volvo Cars of North America, LLC (VCNA) reports sales of
8,425 units in the United States* for the month, representing a decrease of 13.1 percent
compared to the same period last year. For the year, sales are down 9.9 percent in the U.S.
"a steep downturn in the U.S. housing market"
Uh, people aren't buying McMansions, so they don't need a truck?
Is there nothing that cannot be blamed on the US housing market??
"It is well that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."
-- Henry Ford
Wow. Over 250 visitors. The market must be going down.
Yep.
Who needs a bloomberg terminal? I've got the CR visitor counter.
A couple of problems with Ford (I own several US brands including)
Collision costs too high, brakes too small to stop the MF!
New Toyota pick up looks tough
Too high % sales price going to retirement instead of product
Like subprime mortgages, construction industry bought last year with zero interest loans, canabalizing this year.
Also what Metrics wonk said.
The state of American car design is pathetic. Any mildly popular "American" car is actually designed by overseas partners who know what they're doing (Ford Fusion by Mazda, GM epsilon platform (Pontica G6) by Opel), and then the American side screws them up with horrible styling and cheap interiors.
The new toyota pickups may look tougher than they did, but they still look too 'purty' to scratch-up and dent with real work, no?
The F150 doesn't look 'right' until it has a few body dings and a curled fender or two on it.
Toyota laughs
JJ | 10.02.07 - 12:49 pm |
would be funny if it were true...
i think they really just focus on being better, every day... no time for gloating
they bring they're A game every day
Ford is up 2.5% on the news! Was the market expecting a 40% drop in sales???
XOM oct 85's for 35c
dive in have some fun...
"Anecdotal evidence: I do not own a car (haven't for years), but I do rent cars 5-6 times a year. The car I get seems to be fairly random, but I get fewer and fewer Fords (and more and more Koreans). The Ford vehicles I do get are very well built."
I rented several cars this summer, and oddly I never got a Ford, either. I got a few GM cars, Korean cars, and a Toyota or two.
The American cars were all right, just... clunky. Designed by committee. Controls in the wrong place, didn't handle well, jerky trannies, not "smooth" in any way.
The big surprise was the Hyundai Sonata; not the best car overall, but it drove like a good old American freeway land yacht of the grand tradition. Just enough road feel for control, not enough to tire you out.
The American companies engineer cash flows, not cars. The idea is not just to make money, but how to make money making a good car that people want. Detroit doesn't know how to do that, or even want to.
ChicagoDude-
It's not just anecdotal evidence, Ford announced a couple years ago that they were no longer going to put so much of their production into fleet sales to rental agencies. They made almost no money off them in good times and lost cash in bad.
Uh, people aren't building McMansions, so they don't need a truck
To go complete auto geek for a second. The Fusion was based on the 427 concept car, which was designed by an american. Ford 427 :: Concept Car Database
I'm fairly certain the Fusion design was majority US as well. The common Ford/Mazda/Volvo chassis is another matter. But each model was build off that common starting point by the respective companies.
Speaking of pickups...
I have noticed that Nissan has started playing an advertisement lately that involves a train locomotive pulling a truck frame against a beam using chains. To nobodies surprise, the chain breaks before the frame does. I would expect this to happen to a 50-year old truck frame, let alone a brand-new one. Anyway, what caught my attention was the subtle jab about building a fully-boxed frame instead of using C-shaped frame rails. I'm not a truck guy and even I know that Toyota is the only manufacturer that uses C-shaped frame rails.
I'm beginning to believe that Toyota is taking more truck customers from Nissan than they are taking from Ford or GM. And also that Nissan feels that Toyota is their most vulnerable competitor in the full-size truck market.
"Uh, people aren't building McMansions, so they don't need a truck ;)"
True. Or, without easy MEW, not so many are able to afford one.
OT - Tantalum!
Tantalum's big claim to fame in the metals world is that it's used in the production of capacitors, explains Kevin Kerr, which are important components in the manufacturing of mobile phones, laptops, PDAs, game devices, digital cameras and everything that makes the big world a little smaller.
The growing demand for these products is why I believe the level of consumption of tantalum is going to exceed current industrial commodities like copper (construction, electronics), lead (car batteries), zinc (galvanized steel), etc.
From Agora Financials Daily 5
The only people who can afford a new F-Series pickup are union workers, gubbermint workers, and rich coastal types. I own one, a '97. I'll never buy another car or truck as long as I live. The war on my middle class a$$ has been a complete victory.
From a friend who loves racing and Chevy trucks:
FORD - Found On Road Dead
FYI: The Fusion is built in Mexico.
I don't understand why I'm supposed to give a damn about the health of American companies that outsource their work internationally.
edgar
The war on my middle class a$$ has been a complete victory.
Mine too.
A loaded F250 is the corvette of the carpentry world. You put a couple of good paychecks in their hands, and sales will return.
Ski boat sales next. . . but right now its boat burning season.
jwb- Their decision to build the Fusion in Mexico was a slap in the face no doubt. It goes hand in hand with not building the new Focus in the US. I understand that they needed to sell on price to really give the Fusion a chance at breaking into the Altima/Camry market. But it really undercut alot of their moral authority as a "domestic" car maker.
All Ford needs is a small 4 door that is comfortable and reliable that holds its' value and gets good gas mileage that they can sell for a profit at $20,000. It's call a Honda Civic. They should buy one of every single model year of the CVCC through Civic that made it to these shores and reverse engineer to create a competetive 2011 model. They won't because they can't. Most US manufacturing engineering talent is either gone or misallocated. Instead of compostie bodies and fly-by-wire digital buss wiring we get rapid turnover hydroforming to make frequent subtle styling changes to the exact same running equipment a time traveller from the 50s could puzzle out. Hey, squeeze out another model year of drum brakes for a few cents of quarterly profits or keep solid axles because there's two more years in the subcontractor agreement. Can't fire the line workers so cut back on the advanced materials research arm that is a cost center with no immediate bottom line anyway.
You want fries with that?
Trucks make me laugh. Just sold my Dodge 2002 ram 1500 quadcab.
The 13.7 miles per gallon in the city was a bit much to live with on a regular basis. On the other hand, that truck had power. 5.7 liters of power- 360 to you unreconstructed types. But, sadly, I have no need for a third vehicle, and I had to move that truck before the great contractor repo excess hits.
I pretty much gave it away at just above tradein bluebook, but locally 3-4k below bluebook is already on offer for trades. So, I believe that we are about to have a cpi index drop in vehicle values;-}
Just another thing to offset the rising price of cornflakes.
I will buy another truck when the prices are down and gas finally reaches where it should be based on $81 barrel crude.
By the way the fleet mileage for my family is now 24 mpg city;-}
Someday this war's gonna end...
w - unfortunately for tantalum consumption - Tantalum capacitors are getting smaller, also.
Since the car sales were down more than trucks, I'm not sure gas prices can be blamed. Retail sales were only down 9%. Rental sales were a big reason for down sales. Toyota was down 4.4% for the month. Toyota will do fine in the urban truck market. They aren't really competing against Ford for the rural truck market.
w - tantalum has been in tight supply for many years now as it tends to come from areas of the world which aren't very stable. That being the case, hasn't there been a lot of work in developing alternatives to tantalum for use in capacitors? [and now bringing this back to cars] I don't think the so-called super-capacitors that are being developed as an alternative to batteries for electric cars use tantalum.
AllenM - does that mean my wife has to cart your kids around to field trips in her SUV? 80MPGPK (miles per gallon per kid:)
The war on my middle class a$$ has been
can we define what middle class is....
i'd like to hear everyone's opinio
Okay I found the tax thing I was thinking of. "...The explosion of SUV, pickup, and minivan sales in Americas passenger vehicle fleet has turned this small business benefit into a massive loophole in the tax law..."
404 Error - File Not Found | Union of Concerned Scientists
I think I originally read about it in The Long Emergency.
Seb-
Middle class = $30k to 100k per year. Coastal people get a get a COLA bump. London readers should triple these figures.
Per ford-
Don't own, only rent a car about five times a year. From my infrequent observations, seems like:
-Hyundai is moving up quickly in quality
-Toyota cars feel surprisingly chintzy, although the Prius has a cool spaceship feel
-Ford and Chrysler are kind of running in place, better than they were five years ago, yet still behind competition
-Renault/Citroen are underrated
-Any German car is perfectly acceptable for driving on the Autobahn or pretty much anywhere else.
"The big surprise was the Hyundai Sonata; not the best car overall, but it drove like a good old American freeway land yacht of the grand tradition. Just enough road feel for control, not enough to tire you out."
Agreed. I travel a lot on business and rent a lot of cars. My favorite so far has been the Sonata - even to make me consider looking into Hyundai next time I'm in the market for a car.
can we define what middle class is....
Middle class in America for the last 30 year is feeling secure in your own home, good schools, health insurance, and the ability to go wherever you want whenever you want to.
And, a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow to get you through your declining years.
Sippn- yup, as an economist, I practice free riding;-}
But the volvo station wagon does seat upto four urchins.
Add a few more if you put the dog net up and pack the back. I refrain from using the roof rack, even though it is legal here in 'Zona cause the wife frowns on it. She also wouldn't let me put the kids and the dogs in the back of the pickup. Something about rural low class. I explained how to tell who owned the pickup truck on the Rez to her once and she made me promise never to repeat it.
Ah well, rural humor...
Stock market looks like it has figured out the party is over and is wondering who gets to panic first.
Someday this war's gonna end...under the next administration.
"Middle class in America for the last 30 year is feeling secure in your own home, good schools, health insurance, and the ability to go wherever you want whenever you want to.
And, a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow to get you through your declining years."
Interesting that you pick 30 years, because the middle class by that definition has been in decline for 30 years, by my definition.
Pre:1975 or so, every bread truck driver and school custodian was a member of the middle class by your definition, if you substitute "adequate pension" for "pot of gold", and "boat or RV or big land yacht" for "ability to go anywhere." Most of them had zip debt, too, outside of 30-year mortgages and 36-month auto financing.
All Ford needs is a small 4 door that is comfortable and reliable that holds its' value and gets good gas mileage that they can sell for a profit at $20,000.
They did (once upon a time) make a car called a Ford Tempo. Met most of those requirements. In this day and age, the Koreans would likely chew it alive.
I know is a wee itty bitty part of sales, but my extended family has always bought Fords since they hired daddy when we were poor way back in 1960. But this year they closed the local plant (norfolk, va)...we don't buy Ford anymore. I rather hope Ford goes bankrupt...and got the first inkling they were headed for trouble when the latest airy headed Ford rattled on and on about green crap....and yes, I am short Ford..and loving it.
re: the Fusion being american-designed... I'm not so sure about that. sure, american's may have put all the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle together, but they mostly served as integrators and, as I said before, to design the interior and exterior look. The platform (frame/suspension) is designed by Mazda, all the transmission are asian, the 4 cylinder is a Mazda engine. The V6 is a Ford design.
The other problem they have with the F series is a high cost basis. Every single F-Series has 4 doors (the regular cab has a skinny door to access the area behind the seat). Sure is different from the rudimentary old beasts they turned out in the 70s. Course I think there'll be a lot more of those old 70s fords running 30 years from now than the current gen.
rcyran said: " Seb-
Middle class = $30k to 100k per year. Coastal people get a get a COLA bump. London readers should triple these figures."
Wrong "Sebastian" again.
Disappointing, since it should have been easy to spot, as I have zero interest in anyone's subjective opinions and have said so on many occasions.
Sebastia
Middle class are people who make between 2 and 5 times what I make.
Dear Ford: Why did you ditch the Taurus (Sable) station wagons? 8 seatbelts, very roomy interior, good gas mileage, easy fold down back seats, smooth ride, reliable, all the options, and one of the only SUV/minivan alternatives. I pass many of those relics per day. Sigh. I'd like to know the name of the person who made that decision.
Just a guess Outsider: Maybe they thought they could sell those same people an SUV?
Middle class people have jobs. edgar, not so much. I pick up cans on the side of the road when I feel like it. Boycott everything, the corporations have harvested the fruit from the consumer tree, but have neglected to water them with wages. I buy as little as possible. Screw them, screw them all.
Ah, but the station wagons are less prone to rollovers than the SUV and the gas mileage is much better. Easier to park and smaller. Less obnoxious. Let me whine.
Sebastian
Sebastian | 10.02.07 -
redundant
he signs his name, when his name is going to appear anyway
thats gotta be a sign of meglomania
doesn't Ford own Jaguar? Does anyone else have trouble telling a Jaguar from a Hyundai like i do these days?
I'm not sure what middle class is these days but if you are it, you are probably going to be staying it.
Buy a house, get a Ford.
Buy a Ford, get a house.
Crisis over.
When did CR turn into autoblog?
"keep solid axles"
Oh, for solid axles on a small, bare bones, diesel 4x4! Every time I see the absurd suspension/drive line on the back of a Ford escape I want to throw up.
(I drive an absurd, gas guzzling '78 landcruiser, with a carbureted inline six straight from the 50's, so I'm a target market of about 30 guys, all of whom sit around talking about how they won't drive any vehicle with an engine in it that can't be fixed with a hammer and a stick.)
Cheers,
prat