The hat fried my brain. I actually do have that problem. No matter. I gotta fight traffic. The title really says it all. Could OZZY please explain my avatar explain my avatar.
The public and investors have grown so comfortably numb to large losses, AIG should have just declared a one trillion dollars quarterly loss, and then became hugely profitable right after that. In the context of massive bailouts, a hundred billion dollars just does not mean much any more. The taxpayer pays for everybody and everything!
Ah, yes, I so do. But HFC didn't have a bottomless supply of money and I believe their rates were a tad higher than those we're seeing in bailouts. Also they had some real expectation of being repaid.
I'm having a hard time remembering all of jingle. Could you hum a few bars for me?
I recall HFC very well. Great jingle. My parents got a second mortgage from them in the '50's to buy a recreational property. I'm guessing they paid three points above the bank rate of the day. They paid $6,000 for the property in '58. Its now worth $500,000 (or at least it was last year), its probably down 15% in '09
Once upon a time, not all that long ago, it was a matter of conterversy how much Citi might lose in a quarter. Would it be high or low single digit billions. Gasp! Fear.
It's funny how AFTER the gov't takes over one of these entities the reported loss figures then start to skyrocket and yet there is never a peep heard about pursuing the execs for fraud, clawbacks, or material misstatements for thier "generous" financial reporting prior to the takeover.
That is the way of Financial Nazis of America--huge losses and innocent victims. Trap the innocent into Debt Concentration Camps, no?
One day this evil American econo-political system—a system of the Crooks, by the Crooks and for the Crooks—come crashing down just like the system of over confident German Nazis.
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How does a dope know the future deaths caused by global mayhem that would be unleashed by the Financial Plague whose origins are clearly in America and brought about by Financial Nazis of America?
Hundreds of millions, maybe close to a billion, will lose their lives due to the economic and political disintegration that would take place over the 20 years or so.
That is a fascinating point and relevant, to a certain extent.
Except that you have no more idea of the future than I do, and there are a few more problems going on the simply the financial. Excessively, even obsessively, focusing on one causal chain is unlikely to yield any broad insights. Drought is no less a problem now than in the past, but weather is not based on the whims of crooks and dopes.
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I saw this coming more than ten years ago when it became crystal clear to me that CROOKS had taken full control of the US economy and their influence was spreading globally like a wild fire. That fire will consume a big chunk of the globe's population. And I know the "responsible" party--Financial Nazis of America, the Debt Pushers. Their evil would be unequalled in modern history.
I UNDERSTAND DEBT BETTER THAN MOST. It is the debt, stupid!
"Trap people into financial concentration camps". This is exactly what Dubai is doing, and I'm actually all for it. Default on debt, and you go to jail. Permanently, until you can pay it off from savings, a family member, or the government pardons you during Ramadan.
Alright. So what do you mean by safe? Financial? Personal? Live in a country with lots of oil? What do you mean by safe? Not sure any country fits all of those criteria right now.
Interesting idea. I am on the flip side of that opinion. I have lived in 3 other countries in the last 15 years, and lament the fact that now nowhere is safer than where i live (Canada), and feel lucky that i got that experience before this new era. Where would you consider 'safer'?
Some of the "developing nations" aren't looking too bad to me right now. If I had anything like what some of the whiners are complaining about being down to left then I could live quite comfortably somewhere in Latin America. Of course it would be a walled compound with 24 hour security, but it beats four cardboard walls, and it can hardly get significantly worse for most people there.
And imagine the investment opportunities if things ever sorted themselves out.
And when three guys force you into your trunk at gun point, and drive you around the city, switching cell phones regularly for 8 hrs while someone you know arranges 5,000 in a bag, you will reconsider the idea. Happens enough that its a factor to consider - its always present.
One day it will. Then a new system will be created. People will learn to exploit it and eventually the crooks will run that one as well. Just about every system is a symbiotic relationship between individuals and groups looking out for their own interest and trying to acquire the most power. Once certain groups obtain so much power that the other groups are receiving little benefit it collapses and the cycle starts again. I don't think our economic system is quite there yet. Still far more people believing they benefit from the status quo.
$ 61,7 billion... For those of us who have difficulty tring to imagine how much this is: assume you are sitting in a Dutch pub, drinking beer at € 2,50 per glass, and ordering a new glass every 15 minutes. At the current $/€ rate, this will take you 563 years of uninterrupted drinking.
Or the combined labor of over one million people at a $60,000 salary for a full year...and all of the possible production that labor represents.....POOF.
Where is my Eastern European explosion? I just keep hearing about all these Anglo-American losses and bailouts, while the EU only talks about targeted help and maybe speeding up entry in the eurozone - which several East European countries delayed over the past couple of years, to their now seeming regret.
Absolutely, no denying it at all. But the herd instinct is growing increasingly obvious, as a few media voices create a stampede first in one direction, then another.
And the matter of scale is also coming into play - Bulgaria's entire GDP, according to the CIA, is under 100 billion dollars, which is starting to look increasingly like a rounding error when dealing with just the UK's or the U.S.'s current rescue efforts of a handful of banks/insurance companies.
Not to mention a few other possibly overleveraged countries - how is the Indian stock market doing these days? Too small to notice? How about Pakistan and sovereign default? Indonesia? And let us be honest - how are various OPEC member's finances looking these days - especially in light of the fact that just a short year or two ago, oil based SWFs were going to save the world out of petty cash.
Eastern Europe will be a mess - but then, compared to 1995, Eastern Europeans have actually managed to do more than buy some pretty granite (or Italian marble) countertops. And Hungary has been on the verge of default since before the euro was introduced - another forint crisis should induce yawns. 'After its 1946 introduction, the forint remained stable for several years, but started to lose its purchasing power as the state-socialist economic system lost its competitiveness during the 1970s and 1980s. After the democratic change of 1989-90, the forint saw yearly inflation figures of app. 35% for three years, but significant market economy reforms helped stabilize it. Since year 2000 the relatively high value of forint (especially compared to the falling US dollar and to some extent to the euro) handicaps the strongly export-oriented Hungarian industry against foreign competitors with lower valued currencies.
As part of Hungary's integration into the European Union and its euro currency, the forint is slated to disappear circa 2012-2014, depending on the economic situation. As of autumn 2005, there is a strong disagreement between the Hungarian National Bank and the government whether EU-mandated low inflation figures and reduced foreign debt aims can be fulfilled by 2010. The situation threatens to make Hungary the last to adopt the euro currency of the ten countries that joined the EU in 2004. The forint was pegged to the euro until 26 February 2008.' Hungarian forint - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And that last date, Feb. 26, 2008 is quite significant - Hungary's problems have been increasing since then, unlike Slovakia, which joined Jan. 1, 2009. Not that Slovakia ever seems to be mentioned in terms of Eastern Europe's problems - maybe because unlike countries like Hungary, the Slovakians seem to have been able to enjoy the advantages of responsible fiscal policy as mandated by the Stability Pact?
"The nations have sunk down in the pit which they have made;
In the net which they hid, their own foot has been caught.
The Lord has made Himself known;
He has executed judgment,
In the work of his own hands, the wicked is snared.
The wicked will return to Sheol,
Even all the nations who forget God."
Psalm 9: 15-17
Hey Jas we last had such high debt as percent of GDP in the late 1920's (as the twin peaks chart suggests )... who were the financial NAZIs back then in your opinion? Household Debt Vs. GDP - Planet Money Blog : NPR
Was it the immorality of the 1920s??
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I don't have the time to point out all the differences between America of 1920s and 1930s and the recent years and the years to come. One thing is for sure--Americans have been bred to be morally bankrupt dopes (don’t know the difference between right and wrong) since the end of the WW II as a result of triumphalism and they have supported Financial Nazis of America as a result of this doping on nationalistic grounds (American system has to be the best no matter how bad it gets).
I was hanging out with some friends around the pool in Dubai a few weeks ago and they said "Americans just think the rest of the world will keep bailing them out". What a telling comment.
Nazism was quite in fashion in the US of the late 1920s. Along with selective eugenics, sterilization of the poor and "indigent." The US was hardly a paragon of global freedom. Still isn't. How we manage to continue to simultaneously believe in our own moral superiority and violate any kind of reasonable standard is beyond me.
$ 61,7 billion... For those of us who have difficulty tring to imagine how much this is: assume you are sitting in a Dutch pub, drinking beer at € 2,50 per glass, and ordering a new glass every 15 minutes. At the current $/€ rate, this will take you 563 years of uninterrupted drinking.
Martin. the Netherlands
most of the people in this forum are up to that challenge. that's one hell of a party. no more bailouts!! 500 year parties instead!! i think that will be my new battle cry.
Dirk here, have not figured out this new system:
So if the dutch dude was picking up the tab for 100 of his nearest and dearest, the party would only go on 5630 years, which extended back would only be the equivelent of starting the party with the laying the cornerstone of the first step pyramid or so. Party on dude!
Uh, the depression started when the S&P broke 950 being the cure for a depression is a depression all these political whores and central bankers can do is make it worse. One would hope there is a special place in hell for these people right there with rapist, murderers and child abusers.
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Depression has begun in CA as the Unemployment Rate has gone above 10%. It will spread to the US economy in 6-9 months. We never took the CON out of the economy once Greenspan came to power. Since then more CON has been the way.
You know, the word loss has become increasingly ambiguous over the years. Can you lose something that you never had, or only ever existed on paper, in the theoretical? This isn't the same as BSR waking up one morning to find that someone has mutilated his horses and cows, and yet we mourn.
We mourn the paper losses because they inevitably become losses of tangibles: loss of job. Loss of income. Loss of house. Loss of family. Loss of hope. Those are the losses we collectively perceive when we look at paper losses.
The government will also exchange its $40 billion in preferred stock for new shares that “resemble common equity,” the Treasury and Federal Reserve said. AIG was paying a 10 percent dividend on the preferred stock.
Ladies and Gentlemen, the TreaFed introduces a new financial instrument: the RCE, Resembles Common Equity.
The Real High-Tech Immigrant Problem: They’re Leaving.
Walt,
Someone at a very large company accidentally sent my boss a master Excel file that included every employee and salary. We used the autofilter function to confirm what we had already known. We sorted by job description first, then got the average yearly salary for that, then we sorted for names like; Khan, Chiang, Chan, Weng, etc. Asians consistently made 20%+ less than the overall average. I'd guess that 30% of their rank and file were immigrants. That of course suggests Asians made 70% or less than their American counterparts.
There's more to this story, but the loss of these people is not good news for the US.
Fitch Ratings affirmed some of its credit ratings on American International Group on Monday but downgraded its hybrid bonds on the risk that payments may be deferred. Fitch cuts AIG hybrid ratings on payment risks
| Reuters
Uh-Oh
Sunrise Senior Living Inc , a provider of senior living services, said its auditors have cast doubts on the firm's ability to continue as a going concern, adding that it has sufficient cash balances to meet its obligations through March 31. UPDATE 1-Sunrise gets going concern notice
| Reuters
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Until born-and-bred American dopes come to terms with the sad reality that their govt has allowed the financial evil to flourish there is no possibility for improvement. How do Americans plan to take the govt back from the iron fists of Financial Nazis of America? Via a vote? LOL!
Hank Greenberg, who built the AIG into the giant financial factory, was one of the top Financial Nazis. He knew what he was doing.
Sunrise Senior Living Inc , a provider of senior living services, said its auditors have cast doubts on the firm's ability to continue as a going concern, adding that it has sufficient cash balances to meet its obligations through March 31. UPDATE 1-Sunrise gets going concern notice
| Reuters
Grandma's ass is gonna hit the curb.
Don't you just love the cheesy names they give these dumps? They could have at least called it Sunset. That would still have been cheesy, but appropriate metaphor.
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Of course. Born-and-bred American dopes were created, or bred, by Financial Nazis of America. It has been a symbiotic relationship, although an ugly one.
.........and work +30 hours/week more than their American counterparts....what a nation............
Nobody needs to be working that much. People should be working smarter, for sure, but not more. In fact, working smarter means working less, because the time you spend is used much more productively. The piss poor measures used to reflect productivity are misleading. People today are highly unproductive, meaning they do not make smart use of their time. Mainly, this is due to the outdated and archaic corporate structure that plagues commerce and innovation.
In fact, working smarter means working less, because the time you spend is used much more productively.
I think that "working smarter" is more akin to "working simpler". There is too much complexity on too many levels. We spend more time trying to understand and untangle complexities (in order to get work done) than we do actually working. I think this story can be generalized far more:
So true, burnside. The A players in my organization are so busy "meeting" that they have no time to observe the rather large elephant(s) in the room. Instead, they worry about a few crumbs in the corner. This, more than anything, is why we are doomed.
.......Moroco....you dont know what's happening in Silicon Valley...It's nothing to do with productivity or individual talents....employers use immigrants status and they have to work long hours until getting citizenship....Did you ever think how the hightech guru's affluences are made , buddy?....Most Asians hightech workers dont speak and write English well and US gov't and US-born-and-bred all American dopes use that....get it?
Jay D., I'm not criticizing you, or your position. We are closer on this issue than you are perceiving. The Corporate Structure is one of totalitarian domination. It utilizes the eltist pareto principle that asserts 20% of a corporation's employees (the A players) provide 80% of the value. The rest are merely window dressing that can be changed at will.
That seems to work. I was thinking of taking a break from obsessively watching the market and this comments section, this new system is pushing me closer to doing that. Heh.... "I gave up CR for Lent!"
Jas.. dont you think that everyone around the world is a dope? Arent the people who live in slums in Mumbai or people who follow the idiotic caste system as dopey as anyone else? Arent people in Cuba who are driven into poverty by Castro dopey? The masses in China who are packed into povercrowded polluted cities without any human rights and paid pennies? The family in Thailand that lets their 8 year old son work in a factory?
The theme of history and the world is about people who have power (financial and military) and manipulate it to suppress the masses. I don't see how America is any different (except unless you want to argue that Americasn think they have freedom when they really dont which makes them dopier than most). I don't see your point in repeating the Americans are dopes.
Perhaps you have delusions of grandeur in that you think your words are wiser than most and must be repeated.. while you blog away as a tol of the powerful like anyone else.
oh, uh, yeah..
The department attributed to rise in income to pay rises for federal civilian and military employees, as well as cost-of-living adjustments to several government transfer payments programs. It said excluding these factors, incomes would have increased by 0.2 percent in January.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Consumer spending rose more than expected in January, after declining for six consecutive months, according to government figures released Monday.
.....
The implication is that Obama's stimulus package is working. It goes like this. Yes, AIG may have incurred the largest loss in history, but people, inspired by Obama's leadership, are spending again. We're in good hands.
......neither do I.....but anyway ,report said personal income rose 0.4% in January, following a decline of 0.2% in the previous month. Economists had forecast another 0.2% decline......
It was apparently all non-durables. Social Security COLAs kicked in, as did military and government pay raises. That pretty much accounts for all the increase. Stimulus is irrelevant.
Has anyone seen the Wendy's commercial where the former Wall Street Investment Banker is now a Janitor at some ambiguous company and he's having lunch with some cube monkeys? He's teaching them about supply and demand by confiscating their Wendy's sandwiches and/or burgers. Once confiscated, he says, "see, this is supply." The cube monkeys are rather agitated and chomping at the bit to get their sandwiches back, and he says "see, that is demand." They ask him how he knows all of this and he states "I worked on Wall Street." I nearly fell out of my chair.
Personal income was up .4%...wait, not possible you say...no so fast my friend..it turns out that will the private sector is being destroyed, that government pay increases accounted for the increase in pay....
"U.S. consumer spending rebounded in January, snapping six months of declines, and incomes rose unexpectedly, boosted by salary increases for government employees, a government report showed on Monday..."
The AIG bailout is a massive transfer of present and future wealth of taxpayers to Banks and hedge funds.
At it's core, the AIG bailout is an attempt by the government to make banks and hedge fund speculators whole on their derivative bets placed with AIG. This is a disgrace. THOU SHALL NOT STEAL!
The productive economy could more easily be saved by using the money in productive endeavors that benefit all of society. Instead, we waste unimaginable resources bailing out the eCONomic parasites.
This is the biggest swindle in history. The middle class will be burdened by this swindle for at least a generation.
Not if the middle class won't pay. I predict more black mkt doings. Also, I doubt that people who are doing stuff to put food on the table and get by are gonna report everything they get for mowing lawns to the govt.
Agreed. The Banksters and Gov did not play by the rules so what is the message? Every one for themselves, black market, bartering will flourish. Tax income will drop!
I'll third that Balzac read...and War and Peace. I reread it this winter and had forgotten that debt, overconsumption and foreclosed estates provide subplots.
My sister has been buying AIG bonds at a pretty steep discount. I thought she was nuts. I guess as long as uncle sam keeps them afloat she is pretty sharp in hind sight.
If European banks used this to minimize capital so they could leverage up, wouldn't it have been more logical to reduce capital requirements way down for a while and then graduallly ramping up, instead of bailing AIG?
I vote for two generations of fallout, not one. Laywerliz, I give 5-handle 3-4 weeks, with at least one more phenomenal pump followed by more saw-toothed declines.
The notion that we need to save the "financial system" to have a strong eCONomy is a crock. We need to squeeze the fraud out of out eCONomy and financial system. Encourage it to fail sooner, not later.
The vast majority need lower house prices, not higher house prices. The vast majority need less debt, not more.
Let Warren Buffet and the Wall Street millionaires go on spending sprees to spur the eCONomy! Adding more debt to an over-indebted society hurts the majority. It allows the financial (mis)managers and rentier group an easy way to solidify their illicit gains. Who benefits from the bailouts? The financial parasites.
Bailouts wouldn't be needed if the financial industry has done its job. Rather than allocate credit efficiently and productively, wall street chose to perpetuate a debt ponzi scheme. Why? For bonuses of course. Judas Priests, through and through.
We're in a bottoming process. Nothing to worry about. The markets will bounce off the lows. Futures are off their lows... silver lining according to smugbitch erin.
The Credit Default Swaps AIG sold to insure (in a sense) Europan banks against losses would not be paid if AIG went down. This AIG default would cause the Europeans to realize their losses.
Losses realized there would cause other losses and so on.
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On a big victory day for Financial Nazis of America it is important to understand the workings of the system...
Intermediaries between Financial Nazis of America and Born-and-Bred American Dopes—the USG, including the Fed, and Network of Rogue Economists of America.
The goal of the intermediaries, or the agents, is to keep Born-and-Bred American Dopes in line while Financial Nazis of America do their thing. Born-and-Bred American Dopes are nothing more than glorified economic slaves of Financial Nazis of America.
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I am well aware that what I say is a hyperbole for a Born-and-Bred American Dope, a dope in denial of his standing as an economic slave to Financial Nazis of America. Everything is consistent with my observations and conclusions reached years ago based on the understanding of the system.
Same here. I've lost exactly 56 dollars in this whole mess, if you want to compare penis size. Be that as it may, there are more cogent points to be made than working too hard in a comment string to pull a hat out of a rabbit.
for all their military Keynesianism, the German Nazis never had a large scale program of expropriation as the one we see now in the US.
It is true that the US banksters -like the German nazis- believe they are the master-race, but the sheer magnitude of the ongoing heist in the US makes it only comparable to the Bolschevist depredation of Eastern Europe.
bearly says:Today, 9:16:47 AM“We're in a bottoming process. Nothing to worry about. The markets will bounce off the lows. Futures are off their lows... silver lining according to smugbitch erin.
["U.S. consumer spending rebounded in January, snapping six months of declines, and incomes rose unexpectedly, boosted by salary increases for government employees, a government report showed on Monday..."]
And you wonder why there NEEDS TO BE A TOTAL RESET. Let it be!
There is a "community moderation" feature under JS-KIT: JS-Kit Community Wiki / Feature-List
It allows readers to flag comments we feel are innapropriate. After X number of flags, the comment would be removed. This would solve the Jas problem, and require no work on CR's part. What say you all?
I don't even deny the general thrust of Jas' point, I've said the same myself (though more articulate). It's his painfully David-Icke-ish delivery that is an irritant.
Black Star Ranch says:
Today, 6:21:13 AM
“["U.S. consumer spending rebounded in January, snapping six months of declines, and incomes rose unexpectedly, boosted by salary increases for government employees, a government report showed on Monday..."]
And you wonder why there NEEDS TO BE A TOTAL RESET. Let it be!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I didn't get no stinkin salary increase!! WTF??
Oh well....6 handle day....Drink!!
The Notorious A.I.G. says: After X number of flags, the comment would be removed. This would solve the Jas problem, and require no work on CR's part. What say you all?
Yeah, let's have a popularity contest in forum full of professional market manipulators.
Freddie Mac said Chief Executive Officer David Moffett has notified the chairman of the board of directors of his resignation from his position as chief executive and as a member of the board effective no later than March 13. Freddie Mac Chief Executive David Moffett Resigns - Bloomberg.com
I keep saying we are digging a deeper hole, but nobody has time to listen because they are digging all the way to China. This is a black hole, and you cannot throw enough money at this problem. If we don't stop this madness soon, we will have the systemic failure we are fear.
People want to censor Jas because he's been saying exactly the same thing, over and over again, since I started reading this board over a year ago. Dopes, etc... Yea, I GET IT! I wish he'd either shut up or write something worth reading. Anything. It's not censorship, it's just a wish to be able to read something new instead of the same old tripe day in, day out.
And that's exactly what I do with Jas's comments. Which is possibly a shame. He might actually have something interesting to say on occasion but it's not worth my time wading through all the 'born and bred dopes' rubbish to find it. It would be nice to personally have the ability to remove him from what I see as, as far as I'm concerned, I've given him enough time to say something useful. Now I'd happily censor him. It needs to be done on a 'personal settings' basis somehow though. Maybe I can do that with this new message system. Will need to take a look.
I'd love to understand what Jas thinking, but he is too busy ranting to actually explain himself.
I often find that smart people who are not particularly clear thinkers blame their inability to explain their muddled positions on their audience. Put another way, the teacher who believes all of his students are fools is clearly a poor teacher.
I don't understand why my comment about sock puppetry was deleted (I had forgotten to log in and had posted as "Guest," sorry). I think it's a valid complaint.
Let's see if we can break it down into a more reasonable number.
Every day AIG lost: $670 million.
Every hour AIG lost: $27.9 million.
Every minute AIG lost: $465 thousand.
Every second AIG lost: $7,750.
That's more like it. It means that every six and half seconds, AIG loses the equivalent of the median household income in the US.
Here you go Rob. Niall Ferguson calling out Europe for blaming the US for all their problems
You'd think Iceland would have put a stop to this blame America meme. The UK is in so much worse shape and very easily could have gone before the US. Germany is in complete denial. They have a long way to go. Watch for Airbus problems and proposals for two tier EU monetary (good currency/bad currency) proposals.
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It is an ANGLO-AMERICAN DISEASE OR EVIL PLOT and America is lot bigger than all the rest of the Anglo countries combined. Face up to the American evil -- the Financial Plague! Please stop the denial. Thank you.
Well? Which is it? Disease or evil plot? Oh, I get it. It is both. Yeah, we get a lot of that ever since the AIDS virus was released on the African continent by the CIA. Look, Jas. I'm sorry. I apologize for the entire Anglo panoply. We understand your being bitter that your skin color reveals your inner worth unlike the white race where inner worth needs to be proven but that's the way it is. What? You are getting outraged? Why? I've just turned your comments around. Give it a rest.
Europe drank the Fool Aid and now cry victim. True sign of the not so smart looking for a fall guy! Speigal has an article on the Air bus problems coming.
Re Jas and his message - we have a retarded boy (a neighbor) who comes around The Ranch once in a while - I don't listen to him, I don't even hear him anymore - I just make sure he doesn't get hurt while on my property. He can't help being a retarded boy.
Where the hell is the outrage ? I'd write to my Senators telling them I'm inclined to become a tax scofflaw because - well do I to enumerate the because ? - but that would only be passed on to the IRS so I'll just quietly go about doing what I need to do to feel psychically better about this immense ripoff.
I wrote my senators and congressman before Geithner was confirmed, asking then not to confirm the architect of the AIG bailouts and asking them what they were doing to stop the bailouts.
I recevied pre-written responses from the two senators stating how seriously they took the Treasury Secretary confirmation process. Nothing from my congressman.
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We wouldn't be having this discussion (the thread) if Financial Nazis of America didn’t breed Americans to be dopes. That is the sad reality. What we need to do is to figure out how best to function under the conditions that exist. Denial of the reality wouldn't be very helpful.
Why should he advise anyone? Anyone who's advising you right now is a shyster. We are in uncharted territory, and no one knows the way except those charting the course, and they're not advising anyone.
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I said I that don't provide solutions to the probelm. I am simply sharing my observations and conclusions and leave it to everyone to use it as it applies to their circumstance. I am simply providing the information. Got it?
Jas had shared the same "observations" for years now, in the same repetitive language. Like a mynah bird, he can repeat phrases, but he cannot think. It is unfair to expect more from him.
[Freddie Mac's CEO David Moffett, installed last year after the government took over the troubled mortgage finance company, is resigning, the company and its regulator said Monday]
"Screw you guys, I'm so outta here - this place is a mess!"
The nickname "Hank" is a sure fire way to understand that you/we/us will be screwed for a very long time to come. Ever wonder why he "retired" a few year's back?
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Born-and-bred American dopes are bred to shoot the messenger. Nothing new on this blog in that regard. Dopes are angry but they can't touch the real culprits.
....the idea that WE (the US) are the culprits in this financial mess though - I've tried to imagine how I might feel if I had invited someone from another Country into my home, and during an entertaining few hours of engaging conversation, he nonchalantly crawled up on my diningroom table and "shat" in the sugar bowl - how would I "feel" about that? Probably like Naill Ferguson & Jas.
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Dopes have always had problem with criticism and that is what keeps them dopes-for-life. They are adamant about protecting their false beliefs. That is why it can only end badly.
So when do we experience today's gut-churning incomprehensible rally back to the dizzy heights of... er, 7300? And what silly piece of information will prompt the stampede?
Alan Greenspan can come back out of retirement and explain that we aren't irrationally exuberant after all. Wasn't it about these levels when he said we were? (at least in the S&P500?)
So CR.......exactly how bad do you think things will get?
..
We havent seen nearly as many prediction posts from you lately. And I enjoy reading them, as they are based on facts.
...
Yes, it is, but I don't see any consideration of what impact there would be after "Stopping the Bezzle." For all I know, that impact would be worse than what he predicts will occur if the government keeps bailing out the fraud.
No one has a problem saying that things have been royally screwed up. Many people seem to have no idea what would happen if the bailouts just stopped.
"No one has a problem saying that things have been royally screwed up. Many people seem to have no idea what would happen if the bailouts just stopped."
I think that Denninger's point is not so much that the bailouts should be stopped, but that they're futile unless other measures are taken to correct pathological problems in the markets.
[Many people seem to have no idea what would happen if the bailouts just stopped.]
Ratcheting in expenditures has NEVER been a negative when corruption and rampant waste by ALL is concerned. Don't let a senseless argument (we have to spend to get out of this mess) go against what common sense tells you! Waste & corruption put us here - more waste and corruption won't get us out.
[It's just facing the starvation part that makes me unexcited.]
I tend to err on the skeptical side of things FedGov prompted. I though DON'T think even with THEM in charge that any will go hungry here in the US - regardless the state of the Natio
AIG Lost money- then let's see their certified operating statements. If its real, then its proveable. If its a lie it's just another insurance company scam.
West Coast night shift reporting for duty.
CR never sleeps.
what's 61B among friends?
Bloomberg.com:
World Indexes
Must be Irony Monday...everything is red except China.
With AIG, the Feds/Treasury will learn what cosmologists already know: there is an exponential difference in the sizes of black holes.
(google generic black holes and supermassive galactic core black holes)
Oh my gold!
The hat fried my brain. I actually do have that problem. No matter. I gotta fight traffic. The title really says it all. Could OZZY please explain my avatar explain my avatar.
YouTube -
Nostrovia,
The public and investors have grown so comfortably numb to large losses, AIG should have just declared a one trillion dollars quarterly loss, and then became hugely profitable right after that. In the context of massive bailouts, a hundred billion dollars just does not mean much any more. The taxpayer pays for everybody and everything!
Who remembers this jingle:
"Never borrow money
needlessly,
but when you need to borrow
call H-F-C"
Ahh, memories. Bet thats what HSBC is saying too.
Ah, yes, I so do. But HFC didn't have a bottomless supply of money and I believe their rates were a tad higher than those we're seeing in bailouts. Also they had some real expectation of being repaid.
I'm having a hard time remembering all of jingle. Could you hum a few bars for me?
I recall HFC very well. Great jingle. My parents got a second mortgage from them in the '50's to buy a recreational property. I'm guessing they paid three points above the bank rate of the day. They paid $6,000 for the property in '58. Its now worth $500,000 (or at least it was last year), its probably down 15% in '09
$61.66b? $60b was 'baked in', it's the other 1.66 killing the market. nobody saw that coming
Once upon a time, not all that long ago, it was a matter of conterversy how much Citi might lose in a quarter. Would it be high or low single digit billions. Gasp! Fear.
It's funny how AFTER the gov't takes over one of these entities the reported loss figures then start to skyrocket and yet there is never a peep heard about pursuing the execs for fraud, clawbacks, or material misstatements for thier "generous" financial reporting prior to the takeover.
--
"The numbers just keep getting bigger ..."
That is the way of Financial Nazis of America--huge losses and innocent victims. Trap the innocent into Debt Concentration Camps, no?
One day this evil American econo-political system—a system of the Crooks, by the Crooks and for the Crooks—come crashing down just like the system of over confident German Nazis.
Jas
--
How does a dope know the future deaths caused by global mayhem that would be unleashed by the Financial Plague whose origins are clearly in America and brought about by Financial Nazis of America?
Hundreds of millions, maybe close to a billion, will lose their lives due to the economic and political disintegration that would take place over the 20 years or so.
Jas
That is a fascinating point and relevant, to a certain extent.
Except that you have no more idea of the future than I do, and there are a few more problems going on the simply the financial. Excessively, even obsessively, focusing on one causal chain is unlikely to yield any broad insights. Drought is no less a problem now than in the past, but weather is not based on the whims of crooks and dopes.
--
I saw this coming more than ten years ago when it became crystal clear to me that CROOKS had taken full control of the US economy and their influence was spreading globally like a wild fire. That fire will consume a big chunk of the globe's population. And I know the "responsible" party--Financial Nazis of America, the Debt Pushers. Their evil would be unequalled in modern history.
I UNDERSTAND DEBT BETTER THAN MOST. It is the debt, stupid!
Jas
Jas,
I can't believe its so bad that I agree with you. And I'm not significantly into stocks--just nervously watching the currencies.
Guest, while I'm emphatically on your side in this, you may as well save your breath to blow your porridge.
"Trap people into financial concentration camps". This is exactly what Dubai is doing, and I'm actually all for it. Default on debt, and you go to jail. Permanently, until you can pay it off from savings, a family member, or the government pardons you during Ramadan.
That will give the system some discipline.
Oh, and STFU Bernanke.
Jas, for what it is worth, I'm an American who has decided to move out of the country to get away from this mess.
Oh, and STFU Bernanke.
--
My suggestion to all has been to find a relatively safer place as it applies to their personal circumstance. Safety Is Job #1!
Jas
Alright. So what do you mean by safe? Financial? Personal? Live in a country with lots of oil? What do you mean by safe? Not sure any country fits all of those criteria right now.
Interesting idea. I am on the flip side of that opinion. I have lived in 3 other countries in the last 15 years, and lament the fact that now nowhere is safer than where i live (Canada), and feel lucky that i got that experience before this new era. Where would you consider 'safer'?
Some of the "developing nations" aren't looking too bad to me right now. If I had anything like what some of the whiners are complaining about being down to left then I could live quite comfortably somewhere in Latin America. Of course it would be a walled compound with 24 hour security, but it beats four cardboard walls, and it can hardly get significantly worse for most people there.
And imagine the investment opportunities if things ever sorted themselves out.
And when three guys force you into your trunk at gun point, and drive you around the city, switching cell phones regularly for 8 hrs while someone you know arranges 5,000 in a bag, you will reconsider the idea. Happens enough that its a factor to consider - its always present.
One day it will. Then a new system will be created. People will learn to exploit it and eventually the crooks will run that one as well. Just about every system is a symbiotic relationship between individuals and groups looking out for their own interest and trying to acquire the most power. Once certain groups obtain so much power that the other groups are receiving little benefit it collapses and the cycle starts again. I don't think our economic system is quite there yet. Still far more people believing they benefit from the status quo.
We're gonna need a bigger shovel. Why do they have to have to release this at 3:30 Pst anyway? Too damn early...
$ 61,7 billion... For those of us who have difficulty tring to imagine how much this is: assume you are sitting in a Dutch pub, drinking beer at € 2,50 per glass, and ordering a new glass every 15 minutes. At the current $/€ rate, this will take you 563 years of uninterrupted drinking.
Or the combined labor of over one million people at a $60,000 salary for a full year...and all of the possible production that labor represents.....POOF.
You're off by a factor of 1000:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=61.7e9%2F(2.50++4++24+*+365)&btnG=Search
My apologies. I guess I wasn't clearly thinking. Must have had one glass too many. Waiter, please bring my friend another glass.
So, it will actually take 704,337.9 years for you to drink away that kind of money? That's a long time. That's like, geologic time...
Where is my Eastern European explosion? I just keep hearing about all these Anglo-American losses and bailouts, while the EU only talks about targeted help and maybe speeding up entry in the eurozone - which several East European countries delayed over the past couple of years, to their now seeming regret.
I am still waiting on Italy.
The Western European governments just turned down the bailout yesterday. So, therefore, this week. Time to move my Monday out of there...
Oh, and STFU Bernanke.
AIG needs to just die. However, if they are behind foreign entities, it will never happen.
@ Guest: Don't worry, we will be hearing again about Eastern Europe over the next few weeks.
Absolutely, no denying it at all. But the herd instinct is growing increasingly obvious, as a few media voices create a stampede first in one direction, then another.
And the matter of scale is also coming into play - Bulgaria's entire GDP, according to the CIA, is under 100 billion dollars, which is starting to look increasingly like a rounding error when dealing with just the UK's or the U.S.'s current rescue efforts of a handful of banks/insurance companies.
Not to mention a few other possibly overleveraged countries - how is the Indian stock market doing these days? Too small to notice? How about Pakistan and sovereign default? Indonesia? And let us be honest - how are various OPEC member's finances looking these days - especially in light of the fact that just a short year or two ago, oil based SWFs were going to save the world out of petty cash.
Eastern Europe will be a mess - but then, compared to 1995, Eastern Europeans have actually managed to do more than buy some pretty granite (or Italian marble) countertops. And Hungary has been on the verge of default since before the euro was introduced - another forint crisis should induce yawns. 'After its 1946 introduction, the forint remained stable for several years, but started to lose its purchasing power as the state-socialist economic system lost its competitiveness during the 1970s and 1980s. After the democratic change of 1989-90, the forint saw yearly inflation figures of app. 35% for three years, but significant market economy reforms helped stabilize it. Since year 2000 the relatively high value of forint (especially compared to the falling US dollar and to some extent to the euro) handicaps the strongly export-oriented Hungarian industry against foreign competitors with lower valued currencies.
As part of Hungary's integration into the European Union and its euro currency, the forint is slated to disappear circa 2012-2014, depending on the economic situation. As of autumn 2005, there is a strong disagreement between the Hungarian National Bank and the government whether EU-mandated low inflation figures and reduced foreign debt aims can be fulfilled by 2010. The situation threatens to make Hungary the last to adopt the euro currency of the ten countries that joined the EU in 2004. The forint was pegged to the euro until 26 February 2008.' Hungarian forint - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And that last date, Feb. 26, 2008 is quite significant - Hungary's problems have been increasing since then, unlike Slovakia, which joined Jan. 1, 2009. Not that Slovakia ever seems to be mentioned in terms of Eastern Europe's problems - maybe because unlike countries like Hungary, the Slovakians seem to have been able to enjoy the advantages of responsible fiscal policy as mandated by the Stability Pact?
Thought we managed to ditch Jas. I guess we ARE born and bred idiots.
--
Looks like you got promoted!
Jas
The more money we pour, the more money we will make!
"The nations have sunk down in the pit which they have made;
In the net which they hid, their own foot has been caught.
The Lord has made Himself known;
He has executed judgment,
In the work of his own hands, the wicked is snared.
The wicked will return to Sheol,
Even all the nations who forget God."
Psalm 9: 15-17
--
America is doomed because of its esxcessive wickedness. The dirty deed has been done and only the consequences remain to be felt.
Jas
Hey Jas we last had such high debt as percent of GDP in the late 1920's (as the twin peaks chart suggests )... who were the financial NAZIs back then in your opinion? Household Debt Vs. GDP - Planet Money Blog : NPR
Was it the immorality of the 1920s??
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I don't have the time to point out all the differences between America of 1920s and 1930s and the recent years and the years to come. One thing is for sure--Americans have been bred to be morally bankrupt dopes (don’t know the difference between right and wrong) since the end of the WW II as a result of triumphalism and they have supported Financial Nazis of America as a result of this doping on nationalistic grounds (American system has to be the best no matter how bad it gets).
Jas
I was hanging out with some friends around the pool in Dubai a few weeks ago and they said "Americans just think the rest of the world will keep bailing them out". What a telling comment.
Oh, and STFU Bernanke.
And Dubai built itself up how? Those folks would still be burning dried camel dung to cook their food if it wasn't (indirectly) for US.
That chart only covers 2007- quite a lot of debt has "appeared" since then. Perhaps a projection using current data would be enlightening.
Nazism was quite in fashion in the US of the late 1920s. Along with selective eugenics, sterilization of the poor and "indigent." The US was hardly a paragon of global freedom. Still isn't. How we manage to continue to simultaneously believe in our own moral superiority and violate any kind of reasonable standard is beyond me.
"Treasury to get 77.9% equity interest in AIG via preferreds "
Oh no! We are destoying a franchise!
$ 61,7 billion... For those of us who have difficulty tring to imagine how much this is: assume you are sitting in a Dutch pub, drinking beer at € 2,50 per glass, and ordering a new glass every 15 minutes. At the current $/€ rate, this will take you 563 years of uninterrupted drinking.
Martin. the Netherlands
most of the people in this forum are up to that challenge. that's one hell of a party. no more bailouts!! 500 year parties instead!! i think that will be my new battle cry.
I think I would actually get tired of beer.
Actually, the party would 563 000 years, but who's counting.
Dirk here, have not figured out this new system:
So if the dutch dude was picking up the tab for 100 of his nearest and dearest, the party would only go on 5630 years, which extended back would only be the equivelent of starting the party with the laying the cornerstone of the first step pyramid or so. Party on dude!
the 500 year party comment was mine. whoops...
@ Guest and sneeringnihilist: I guess beer is as good a form of liquidity as cash...
Reading Jas' comments in the morning is like "having Folgers in your cup".
--
Thanks. I serve French Roast.
Jas
Is Folgers any good?
Folgers is crap from a dog's ass. Sort of like certain posts.
New England Coffee FTW.
This may seem OT but,for once, it isn't. We all agree that what America also needs is more good jobs:
(from the New York Times)
The Real High-Tech Immigrant Problem: They’re Leaving.
The Real High-Tech Immigrant Problem: They’re Leaving - Bits Blog - NYTimes.com
found the comment on 35% of the latest losses in CA were in the tech field.
Sacramento Real Estate Statistics: Statewide Unemployment Hits 10.1%
The recession will end when the depression begins.
Uh, the depression started when the S&P broke 950 being the cure for a depression is a depression all these political whores and central bankers can do is make it worse. One would hope there is a special place in hell for these people right there with rapist, murderers and child abusers.
--
Depression has begun in CA as the Unemployment Rate has gone above 10%. It will spread to the US economy in 6-9 months. We never took the CON out of the economy once Greenspan came to power. Since then more CON has been the way.
Jas
But the CONfidence is slipping. We need to learn the European way.
You know, the word loss has become increasingly ambiguous over the years. Can you lose something that you never had, or only ever existed on paper, in the theoretical? This isn't the same as BSR waking up one morning to find that someone has mutilated his horses and cows, and yet we mourn.
We mourn the paper losses because they inevitably become losses of tangibles: loss of job. Loss of income. Loss of house. Loss of family. Loss of hope. Those are the losses we collectively perceive when we look at paper losses.
My automatic response to this was to be glad I hadn't saved up more. Didn't overspend, didn't oversave.
Good thing they have a guaranteed fixed annuity contract with Congress.
testing
The government will also exchange its $40 billion in preferred stock for new shares that “resemble common equity,” the Treasury and Federal Reserve said. AIG was paying a 10 percent dividend on the preferred stock.
Ladies and Gentlemen, the TreaFed introduces a new financial instrument: the RCE, Resembles Common Equity.
The Real High-Tech Immigrant Problem: They’re Leaving.
Walt,
Someone at a very large company accidentally sent my boss a master Excel file that included every employee and salary. We used the autofilter function to confirm what we had already known. We sorted by job description first, then got the average yearly salary for that, then we sorted for names like; Khan, Chiang, Chan, Weng, etc. Asians consistently made 20%+ less than the overall average. I'd guess that 30% of their rank and file were immigrants. That of course suggests Asians made 70% or less than their American counterparts.
There's more to this story, but the loss of these people is not good news for the US.
.........and work +30 hours/week more than their American counterparts....what a nation............
Fitch Ratings affirmed some of its credit ratings on American International Group on Monday but downgraded its hybrid bonds on the risk that payments may be deferred.
Fitch cuts AIG hybrid ratings on payment risks
| Reuters
Uh-Oh
How come I can't find the words "salary" and "cap" in the Tres./Fed. statement?
Sunrise Senior Living Inc , a provider of senior living services, said its auditors have cast doubts on the firm's ability to continue as a going concern, adding that it has sufficient cash balances to meet its obligations through March 31.
UPDATE 1-Sunrise gets going concern notice
| Reuters
Grandma's ass is gonna hit the curb.
My mom thought of buying into one of those things, but thought the rooms were too small and didn't want to hand all her money over.
So now, instead, she's having trouble selling her house. A much better problem!!
At SOME price it will sell.
Obama save me!!
(in best Steve Martin cheezy preacher voice)
--
No, sir, Obama is pleading with Financial Nazis of America to save his Presidency!
Jas
Hehe. Bush started this and Obama is pushing the peddle to the metal to finish it ala Great Depression II. Obama and his ship of corrupt fools.
We are going to get change and we will not like it.
Yawn.
The numbers just keep getting bigger...except for the tax revenue. That'll keep getting smaller. Zero-sum game, approaching zero.
US tax payers may find this helpful in navigating the new economic landscape
YouTube - Let's Learn Russian!/Greetings
Spasibo!
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Until born-and-bred American dopes come to terms with the sad reality that their govt has allowed the financial evil to flourish there is no possibility for improvement. How do Americans plan to take the govt back from the iron fists of Financial Nazis of America? Via a vote? LOL!
Hank Greenberg, who built the AIG into the giant financial factory, was one of the top Financial Nazis. He knew what he was doing.
Jas
G.Edward Griffin's interview, very insightful:
http://www.netcastdaily.com/broadcast/fsn2009-0228-2.mp3
I was wondering if you were ever going to name names.
Sunrise Senior Living Inc , a provider of senior living services, said its auditors have cast doubts on the firm's ability to continue as a going concern, adding that it has sufficient cash balances to meet its obligations through March 31.
UPDATE 1-Sunrise gets going concern notice
| Reuters
Grandma's ass is gonna hit the curb.
Don't you just love the cheesy names they give these dumps? They could have at least called it Sunset. That would still have been cheesy, but appropriate metaphor.
ot sure what is worse: $60 billion to AIG or the return of Jass
.........check the spelling , single s.....or call Dr.jain.........
Jas, a dope is not born & bred to come to terms. A dope is born & bred to obey his masters and relish his servitude.
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Of course. Born-and-bred American dopes were created, or bred, by Financial Nazis of America. It has been a symbiotic relationship, although an ugly one.
Jas
Your hyperbole is uninteresting and boring. Please try harder. Perhaps you might include a hollow earth or spacemen.
Are we smelling fear yet?
Not really, futures are off their lows.
.........and work +30 hours/week more than their American counterparts....what a nation............
Nobody needs to be working that much. People should be working smarter, for sure, but not more. In fact, working smarter means working less, because the time you spend is used much more productively. The piss poor measures used to reflect productivity are misleading. People today are highly unproductive, meaning they do not make smart use of their time. Mainly, this is due to the outdated and archaic corporate structure that plagues commerce and innovation.
In fact, working smarter means working less, because the time you spend is used much more productively.
I think that "working smarter" is more akin to "working simpler". There is too much complexity on too many levels. We spend more time trying to understand and untangle complexities (in order to get work done) than we do actually working. I think this story can be generalized far more:
"In Praise of More Primitive Finance" « naked capitalism
Morocco, you've just spawned another flurry of meetings and teleconferences on the subject, I'm sure.
So true, burnside. The A players in my organization are so busy "meeting" that they have no time to observe the rather large elephant(s) in the room. Instead, they worry about a few crumbs in the corner. This, more than anything, is why we are doomed.
.......Moroco....you dont know what's happening in Silicon Valley...It's nothing to do with productivity or individual talents....employers use immigrants status and they have to work long hours until getting citizenship....Did you ever think how the hightech guru's affluences are made , buddy?....Most Asians hightech workers dont speak and write English well and US gov't and US-born-and-bred all American dopes use that....get it?
Jay D., I'm not criticizing you, or your position. We are closer on this issue than you are perceiving. The Corporate Structure is one of totalitarian domination. It utilizes the eltist pareto principle that asserts 20% of a corporation's employees (the A players) provide 80% of the value. The rest are merely window dressing that can be changed at will.
Does throwing money into a pit always make it open wider?
Is the pit bottomless?
Futures are well into the 6 handle.
Errr. Anybody want to guess how long it will take to get to the 5 handle?
March 21st
Tomorrow
Liz, the map is not the territory. Or something like that.
One of my favorite sayings.
What is what you are contemplating IS a map. Is it a map and a territory too?
p.s. I weep for my CR Companion.
me too... must filter the trolls (Jass, Michael, etc...) and easily find posts by my faves (rich, Gavshire, lawyer liz
Thanks!
If this keeps going, maybe i can afford a Berkshire share! Yay!
The Latest from Denninger:
The Challenge Before America
Oh no, do I dare read this?
ya, but just make sure you're sitting down.
Sure, just have a stiff drink at the ready.
I already did.
I guess Jas' Godwin comments don't count.
@lawyerliz Is it a map and a territory too?
Only if you're a futures trader.
Personal income and spending reported to be ginned up.
OK, now that the comments come up in another window, how do you change them to flat, unthreaded?
"OK, now that the comments come up in another window, how do you change them to flat, unthreaded?"
Hit 'cancel' and then click on the controls.
That seems to work. I was thinking of taking a break from obsessively watching the market and this comments section, this new system is pushing me closer to doing that. Heh.... "I gave up CR for Lent!"
"I saw this coming more than ten years ago when it became crystal clear to me that CROOKS had taken full control of the US economy..."
Oh yah? Well, I saw it coming ELEVEN years ago.
Run... You fools!
"Fly" you fools.
Futures are well off their lows; up more than 1% in the past two hours and climbing.
Kermit is coming.
Oh yah? Well, I saw it coming ELEVEN years ago.
LOL.
But seriously, I saw it coming twelve years ago.
Oh yeah, well I saw it before I was born.
Anyways, STFU Bernanke.
Jas.. dont you think that everyone around the world is a dope? Arent the people who live in slums in Mumbai or people who follow the idiotic caste system as dopey as anyone else? Arent people in Cuba who are driven into poverty by Castro dopey? The masses in China who are packed into povercrowded polluted cities without any human rights and paid pennies? The family in Thailand that lets their 8 year old son work in a factory?
The theme of history and the world is about people who have power (financial and military) and manipulate it to suppress the masses. I don't see how America is any different (except unless you want to argue that Americasn think they have freedom when they really dont which makes them dopier than most). I don't see your point in repeating the Americans are dopes.
Perhaps you have delusions of grandeur in that you think your words are wiser than most and must be repeated.. while you blog away as a tol of the powerful like anyone else.
oh, uh, yeah..
The department attributed to rise in income to pay rises for federal civilian and military employees, as well as cost-of-living adjustments to several government transfer payments programs. It said excluding these factors, incomes would have increased by 0.2 percent in January.
If people were p*ssed about the mortgage bailout, wait to read about this. Get out of the private sector and go to work for the government!
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Consumer spending rose more than expected in January, after declining for six consecutive months, according to government figures released Monday.
.....
"according to government figures"
sorry, no confidence whatsoever in govt figures anymore.
The implication is that Obama's stimulus package is working. It goes like this. Yes, AIG may have incurred the largest loss in history, but people, inspired by Obama's leadership, are spending again. We're in good hands.
Yup. Obama is relying on his years of knowledge, preparation, leadership in order to do what is morally right.
......neither do I.....but anyway ,report said personal income rose 0.4% in January, following a decline of 0.2% in the previous month. Economists had forecast another 0.2% decline......
It was apparently all non-durables. Social Security COLAs kicked in, as did military and government pay raises. That pretty much accounts for all the increase. Stimulus is irrelevant.
Of course stimulus is irrelevant, but that's not what the dopes will think.
Reuters notes that this is the largest loss in U.S. corporate history. Woo hoo. USA! USA!
Yahoo! 404 - Page Not Found
What's #2? JDSU?
Some people do have some money. For a while. .
I've forgotten--is $61 billion a lot of money?
Not any more.
Have to get up to quadrillion to get to real
money.
Wonder what your bank has hidden on or off its books? Wishing for a simpler time financially?
Naked Capitalism takes a look at In Praise of More Primitive Banking"
I sure wish I could find a US bank that was trustworthy and sound. I don't believe anything they say.
I think "trustworthy and sound" banks became an endangered species due to competitive pressure from the other banks.
I have set all your money on fire. Burn, baby, burn!
Lots of banks in Dubai (unstable as Dubai currently is) seem to operate more simply than the US. Or perhaps the word is unsophisticated?
So how was the 8:30 AIG call? Humble?
Yet another US$ 60,000,000,000 must burn in the hellish furnaces of the Financial Holocaust® so that AIG may live.
Has anyone seen the Wendy's commercial where the former Wall Street Investment Banker is now a Janitor at some ambiguous company and he's having lunch with some cube monkeys? He's teaching them about supply and demand by confiscating their Wendy's sandwiches and/or burgers. Once confiscated, he says, "see, this is supply." The cube monkeys are rather agitated and chomping at the bit to get their sandwiches back, and he says "see, that is demand." They ask him how he knows all of this and he states "I worked on Wall Street." I nearly fell out of my chair.
Personal income was up .4%...wait, not possible you say...no so fast my friend..it turns out that will the private sector is being destroyed, that government pay increases accounted for the increase in pay....
Consumer Spending, Income Post Gains in January - Economy * US * News * Story - CNBC.com
"U.S. consumer spending rebounded in January, snapping six months of declines, and incomes rose unexpectedly, boosted by salary increases for government employees, a government report showed on Monday..."
Heh, heh, heh...
Thank you, thank you. The hub works for the gov't. He works very very hard for NASA. Before that he worked very very hard for NOAH (hurricanes).
Is that the same thing as NOAA? Never heard of NOAH before.
Yah, yeah, NOAA. My bad.
A lot of it was a military pay increase, actually.
Government wants to be the
lender of last resort
borrower of last resort
employer of last resort
landlord of last resort
and it is happening at a lightning quick pace
The AIG bailout is a massive transfer of present and future wealth of taxpayers to Banks and hedge funds.
At it's core, the AIG bailout is an attempt by the government to make banks and hedge fund speculators whole on their derivative bets placed with AIG. This is a disgrace. THOU SHALL NOT STEAL!
The productive economy could more easily be saved by using the money in productive endeavors that benefit all of society. Instead, we waste unimaginable resources bailing out the eCONomic parasites.
This is the biggest swindle in history. The middle class will be burdened by this swindle for at least a generation.
Not if the middle class won't pay. I predict more black mkt doings. Also, I doubt that people who are doing stuff to put food on the table and get by are gonna report everything they get for mowing lawns to the govt.
Lawyerliz,,
Agreed. The Banksters and Gov did not play by the rules so what is the message? Every one for themselves, black market, bartering will flourish. Tax income will drop!
If you want a fine diagram of the swindler ethos, read Balzac. Great stories, and far less repetitive than he-who-shall-not-be-named. ;0)
I'll second the Balzac recommendation. The Bourbon Restoration was full of financial scams.
Then wash it down with some Émile Zola. Delish!
I'll third that Balzac read...and War and Peace. I reread it this winter and had forgotten that debt, overconsumption and foreclosed estates provide subplots.
My sister has been buying AIG bonds at a pretty steep discount. I thought she was nuts. I guess as long as uncle sam keeps them afloat she is pretty sharp in hind sight.
Race is on to the bottom in the uk
Bankrupt Britain
Part 1: Europe Blames America While U.K Warned of Bankruptcy
Bankrupt Britain | Bailouts & Bank Credit Crisis Could Cause British Great Depression
If European banks used this to minimize capital so they could leverage up, wouldn't it have been more logical to reduce capital requirements way down for a while and then graduallly ramping up, instead of bailing AIG?
Here's that Wendy's commercial. I love it. I'm hungry now.
YouTube - Wendy's commercial 99 cents sandwiches
Angry Saver,
I vote for two generations of fallout, not one. Laywerliz, I give 5-handle 3-4 weeks, with at least one more phenomenal pump followed by more saw-toothed declines.
--bh
Krugman may have jinxed it.
Bastard! He's on the payroll.
The notion that we need to save the "financial system" to have a strong eCONomy is a crock. We need to squeeze the fraud out of out eCONomy and financial system. Encourage it to fail sooner, not later.
The vast majority need lower house prices, not higher house prices. The vast majority need less debt, not more.
Let Warren Buffet and the Wall Street millionaires go on spending sprees to spur the eCONomy! Adding more debt to an over-indebted society hurts the majority. It allows the financial (mis)managers and rentier group an easy way to solidify their illicit gains. Who benefits from the bailouts? The financial parasites.
Bailouts wouldn't be needed if the financial industry has done its job. Rather than allocate credit efficiently and productively, wall street chose to perpetuate a debt ponzi scheme. Why? For bonuses of course. Judas Priests, through and through.
I am so excited, 6k in a few minutes...would we see balloons and party hats on cnbc today?
We're in a bottoming process. Nothing to worry about. The markets will bounce off the lows. Futures are off their lows... silver lining according to smugbitch erin.
But which lows ?
Lawyerliz
The Credit Default Swaps AIG sold to insure (in a sense) Europan banks against losses would not be paid if AIG went down. This AIG default would cause the Europeans to realize their losses.
Losses realized there would cause other losses and so on.
That is what we are told anyway.
--
On a big victory day for Financial Nazis of America it is important to understand the workings of the system...
Intermediaries between Financial Nazis of America and Born-and-Bred American Dopes—the USG, including the Fed, and Network of Rogue Economists of America.
The goal of the intermediaries, or the agents, is to keep Born-and-Bred American Dopes in line while Financial Nazis of America do their thing. Born-and-Bred American Dopes are nothing more than glorified economic slaves of Financial Nazis of America.
What a system!
Jas
Of course that's all true, Jas, but what do you think about the Wendy's commercial?
Your hyperbole is uninteresting and boring. Please try harder. Perhaps you might include a hollow earth or spacemen.
--
I am well aware that what I say is a hyperbole for a Born-and-Bred American Dope, a dope in denial of his standing as an economic slave to Financial Nazis of America. Everything is consistent with my observations and conclusions reached years ago based on the understanding of the system.
Jas
Same here. I've lost exactly 56 dollars in this whole mess, if you want to compare penis size. Be that as it may, there are more cogent points to be made than working too hard in a comment string to pull a hat out of a rabbit.
Oh, goddess, I don't have one of those.
I'm doomed, doomed.
Jas,
for all their military Keynesianism, the German Nazis never had a large scale program of expropriation as the one we see now in the US.
It is true that the US banksters -like the German nazis- believe they are the master-race, but the sheer magnitude of the ongoing heist in the US makes it only comparable to the Bolschevist depredation of Eastern Europe.
bearly says:Today, 9:16:47 AM“We're in a bottoming process. Nothing to worry about. The markets will bounce off the lows. Futures are off their lows... silver lining according to smugbitch erin.
Die GE, Die!
But, We Broke 7,000.. Where are the Party hats???.. Where's the confetti???? Where's the band??
They had one for 7,000 before, Why Not Now..
Don't feed.
European Banks down 10%. Quel Suprise!
["U.S. consumer spending rebounded in January, snapping six months of declines, and incomes rose unexpectedly, boosted by salary increases for government employees, a government report showed on Monday..."]
And you wonder why there NEEDS TO BE A TOTAL RESET. Let it be!
BSR, I agree with you about the need for a total reset. I just don't know if any of us would survive the fallout.
8 minutes to blast off.
There is a "community moderation" feature under JS-KIT:
JS-Kit Community Wiki / Feature-List
It allows readers to flag comments we feel are innapropriate. After X number of flags, the comment would be removed. This would solve the Jas problem, and require no work on CR's part. What say you all?
--
Yup, dopes look for censorship. Denial of the reality.
Jas
Really lets not make this a beauty pageant.
Jas, I want to slashdot you to oblivion because you post the same, tired thing, over and over again.
CR Bot, I am missing your filter!
I don't even deny the general thrust of Jas' point, I've said the same myself (though more articulate). It's his painfully David-Icke-ish delivery that is an irritant.
Black Star Ranch says:
Today, 6:21:13 AM
“["U.S. consumer spending rebounded in January, snapping six months of declines, and incomes rose unexpectedly, boosted by salary increases for government employees, a government report showed on Monday..."]
And you wonder why there NEEDS TO BE A TOTAL RESET. Let it be!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I didn't get no stinkin salary increase!! WTF??
Oh well....6 handle day....Drink!!
I didn't get no stinkin salary increase!!
Are you a Union member?
First comes financial crisis. Then an economic crisis. Then people lose their jobs – millions of them. Finally, anarchy.
Garth Turner
You can probably add a collapse of goverment some place in there also.
Garth, I bought some Nortel on your advice:
404: Page not found
Can I get a refund?
It's a bitch keeping China happy isn't it?
Ciao
MS
We are toast.
The Notorious A.I.G. says:
After X number of flags, the comment would be removed. This would solve the Jas problem, and require no work on CR's part. What say you all?
Yeah, let's have a popularity contest in forum full of professional market manipulators.
Group think is what got our economy is this frigging mess.
Freddie Mac said Chief Executive Officer David Moffett has notified the chairman of the board of directors of his resignation from his position as chief executive and as a member of the board effective no later than March 13.
Freddie Mac Chief Executive David Moffett Resigns - Bloomberg.com
The rats are bsiling off the sinking ship.
I keep saying we are digging a deeper hole, but nobody has time to listen because they are digging all the way to China. This is a black hole, and you cannot throw enough money at this problem. If we don't stop this madness soon, we will have the systemic failure we are fear.
[“This probably won’t be the last time AIG has to come to the trough.”]
Such unexpected news. Were we told of even the possibility of many further "donations by the taxpayer" to continue this charade?
6 handle!
People want to censor Jas because he's been saying exactly the same thing, over and over again, since I started reading this board over a year ago. Dopes, etc... Yea, I GET IT! I wish he'd either shut up or write something worth reading. Anything. It's not censorship, it's just a wish to be able to read something new instead of the same old tripe day in, day out.
And that's exactly what I do with Jas's comments. Which is possibly a shame. He might actually have something interesting to say on occasion but it's not worth my time wading through all the 'born and bred dopes' rubbish to find it. It would be nice to personally have the ability to remove him from what I see as, as far as I'm concerned, I've given him enough time to say something useful. Now I'd happily censor him. It needs to be done on a 'personal settings' basis somehow though. Maybe I can do that with this new message system. Will need to take a look.
Amen. He could figure out a synonym for dope at least.
I'd love to understand what Jas thinking, but he is too busy ranting to actually explain himself.
I often find that smart people who are not particularly clear thinkers blame their inability to explain their muddled positions on their audience. Put another way, the teacher who believes all of his students are fools is clearly a poor teacher.
I don't understand why my comment about sock puppetry was deleted (I had forgotten to log in and had posted as "Guest," sorry). I think it's a valid complaint.
hope you enjoy this.Exclusive interview with japanese finance minister.
Exshclushiv interview- Hindustan Times
6900 be barely knew you.
mal says:
Today, 9:34:57 AM
“I don't understand why my comment about sock puppetry was deleted
It has a hair-trigger spam filter.
The real question- Where will the stock markets be at the same time this week?
Dad,"Buddy we are with AIG. Kid, "Oh nevermind, I will just go tuck myself in and blow my brains out"
[After X number of flags, the comment would be removed. This would solve the Jas problem, and require no work on CR's part. What say you all?]
I say: I wasn't aware this was a "democracy". I'm not the rule-maker
Well put, and to make it real I will simply affix my mental filter and cease mentioning it.
and i find your avatar really annoying.
AIG +17%. Must be because of the reduced float when the executive officers were forced to tender their shares in a plea bargain right?
[I just don't know if any of us would survive the fallout.]
I am MOST afraid of "surviving" in a civilization where DC is my "Mommy". The last Mommy I signed up for (the USMC) was the last Mommy I sign up for.
Is this thread dead? I agree with you in principle. Totally. It's just facing the starvation part that makes me unexcited.
Let's see if we can break it down into a more reasonable number.
Every day AIG lost: $670 million.
Every hour AIG lost: $27.9 million.
Every minute AIG lost: $465 thousand.
Every second AIG lost: $7,750.
That's more like it. It means that every six and half seconds, AIG loses the equivalent of the median household income in the US.
Thanks for those very sobering numbers.
Here you go Rob. Niall Ferguson calling out Europe for blaming the US for all their problems
You'd think Iceland would have put a stop to this blame America meme. The UK is in so much worse shape and very easily could have gone before the US. Germany is in complete denial. They have a long way to go. Watch for Airbus problems and proposals for two tier EU monetary (good currency/bad currency) proposals.
--
It is an ANGLO-AMERICAN DISEASE OR EVIL PLOT and America is lot bigger than all the rest of the Anglo countries combined. Face up to the American evil -- the Financial Plague! Please stop the denial. Thank you.
Jas
Well? Which is it? Disease or evil plot? Oh, I get it. It is both. Yeah, we get a lot of that ever since the AIDS virus was released on the African continent by the CIA. Look, Jas. I'm sorry. I apologize for the entire Anglo panoply. We understand your being bitter that your skin color reveals your inner worth unlike the white race where inner worth needs to be proven but that's the way it is. What? You are getting outraged? Why? I've just turned your comments around. Give it a rest.
--
The disease is the Fiancial Plague and it is a result of the evil plot of Financial Nazis of America in works for years. Got it?
Jas
proposals for two tier EU monetary (good currency/bad currency) proposals.
First I've heard of that. How does it work?
Europe drank the Fool Aid and now cry victim. True sign of the not so smart looking for a fall guy! Speigal has an article on the Air bus problems coming.
Re Jas and his message - we have a retarded boy (a neighbor) who comes around The Ranch once in a while - I don't listen to him, I don't even hear him anymore - I just make sure he doesn't get hurt while on my property. He can't help being a retarded boy.
Is $61 billion a lot of money?
Where the hell is the outrage ? I'd write to my Senators telling them I'm inclined to become a tax scofflaw because - well do I to enumerate the because ? - but that would only be passed on to the IRS so I'll just quietly go about doing what I need to do to feel psychically better about this immense ripoff.
-K
I wrote my senators and congressman before Geithner was confirmed, asking then not to confirm the architect of the AIG bailouts and asking them what they were doing to stop the bailouts.
I recevied pre-written responses from the two senators stating how seriously they took the Treasury Secretary confirmation process. Nothing from my congressman.
That was it.
No comment on the AIG bailouts.
No comment on what they were doing to stop it.
Yes Black Star if we stop feeding then most probably he will either go away or post something a little less incendiary.
a couple days ago we were wondering if 752 would hold.
--
We wouldn't be having this discussion (the thread) if Financial Nazis of America didn’t breed Americans to be dopes. That is the sad reality. What we need to do is to figure out how best to function under the conditions that exist. Denial of the reality wouldn't be very helpful.
Jas
When we ask you what you'd advise, you only say it's not your job.
Why should he advise anyone? Anyone who's advising you right now is a shyster. We are in uncharted territory, and no one knows the way except those charting the course, and they're not advising anyone.
--
I said I that don't provide solutions to the probelm. I am simply sharing my observations and conclusions and leave it to everyone to use it as it applies to their circumstance. I am simply providing the information. Got it?
Jas
"I am simply sharing my observations "
Jas had shared the same "observations" for years now, in the same repetitive language. Like a mynah bird, he can repeat phrases, but he cannot think. It is unfair to expect more from him.
[Freddie Mac's CEO David Moffett, installed last year after the government took over the troubled mortgage finance company, is resigning, the company and its regulator said Monday]
"Screw you guys, I'm so outta here - this place is a mess!"
Moffett to quit Freddie Mac as CEO - Mar. 2, 2009
(quote source is unconfirmed)
The nickname "Hank" is a sure fire way to understand that you/we/us will be screwed for a very long time to come. Ever wonder why he "retired" a few year's back?
Now we know...
Ciao
MS
--
Born-and-bred American dopes are bred to shoot the messenger. Nothing new on this blog in that regard. Dopes are angry but they can't touch the real culprits.
Jas
This is largely true. Powerless.
Jas, wouldn't you agree that the dopiest Scam to own is General Electric?
This may have been posted, but this is a nice summary of AIG bailouts in the past six months.
AIG in Review « The Baseline Scenario
....the idea that WE (the US) are the culprits in this financial mess though - I've tried to imagine how I might feel if I had invited someone from another Country into my home, and during an entertaining few hours of engaging conversation, he nonchalantly crawled up on my diningroom table and "shat" in the sugar bowl - how would I "feel" about that? Probably like Naill Ferguson & Jas.
--
Dopes have always had problem with criticism and that is what keeps them dopes-for-life. They are adamant about protecting their false beliefs. That is why it can only end badly.
Jas
DOWN GOES FRAZIER... no wait, we still have a 69 handle... we were 1 point away people, one point away from 6800.
So long 6900, we barely even knew you...
Nothing like a healthy correction!
68 handle. Nice!
test
So when do we experience today's gut-churning incomprehensible rally back to the dizzy heights of... er, 7300? And what silly piece of information will prompt the stampede?
A butterfly flapping its wings in Paraguay.
Alan Greenspan can come back out of retirement and explain that we aren't irrationally exuberant after all. Wasn't it about these levels when he said we were? (at least in the S&P500?)
gold and silver also down? what gives?
When funds unwind, they sell what's saleable. Look at other commodities. Same story.
Hedgies selling and margin calls. Will go up shortly though.
the economic model of stimulus upon stimulus for decades to comes seems to be true
Isn't an erection lasting more than 4 hours dangerous to your health?
I think this is more of a constant rectal stimulus.
Wow....This is a sobering read
The Challenge Before America
He predicts a 50% drop in GDP...then government spending would be 50% OF GDP, which is unsustainable.....mass spending cuts.........social collapse.
It all depends upon your perception. Think of it this way. We'll all be a lot closer.
--
USG and large "public" corporations have been more than 50% of the GDP. Therefore, nothing will change in Corporate Communist America!
Please face the ugly reality of the American econo-political system -- a system of the Crooks, by the Crooks, and for the Crooks!!
Jas
Defend S&P 700 at all costs seems to be the rallying cry.
Defend S&P at xxx, where xxx is some new level, has been the rallying cry for 16 months.
They just keep racheting the level down.
So CR.......exactly how bad do you think things will get?
..
We havent seen nearly as many prediction posts from you lately. And I enjoy reading them, as they are based on facts.
...
--
Not bad enough to cause a severe recession.
Jas
It's starting to look like a 44 handle.
So when will the GE bailouts start? Has to happen eventually, right?
--
Why must you ask? Isn't GE part of Financial Nazis of America?? GE brings good things to life!
Jas
Jas
And now the drop into the abyss.....6200 here we come.
Ciao
MS
I like these two digit "handles" they're very optimistic. 68 certainly sounds bigger than seven or eight.
Wow....This is a sobering read
The Challenge Before America
Yes, it is, but I don't see any consideration of what impact there would be after "Stopping the Bezzle." For all I know, that impact would be worse than what he predicts will occur if the government keeps bailing out the fraud.
No one has a problem saying that things have been royally screwed up. Many people seem to have no idea what would happen if the bailouts just stopped.
"No one has a problem saying that things have been royally screwed up. Many people seem to have no idea what would happen if the bailouts just stopped."
I think that Denninger's point is not so much that the bailouts should be stopped, but that they're futile unless other measures are taken to correct pathological problems in the markets.
[Many people seem to have no idea what would happen if the bailouts just stopped.]
Ratcheting in expenditures has NEVER been a negative when corruption and rampant waste by ALL is concerned. Don't let a senseless argument (we have to spend to get out of this mess) go against what common sense tells you! Waste & corruption put us here - more waste and corruption won't get us out.
General Fulda reports Iceland has been taken with no resistance.
More later.
Waste & corruption put us here - more waste and corruption won't get us out.
BSR, I certainly agree with that statement. I guess I'm not convinced that current efforts constitute more waste and corruption.
[It's just facing the starvation part that makes me unexcited.]
I tend to err on the skeptical side of things FedGov prompted. I though DON'T think even with THEM in charge that any will go hungry here in the US - regardless the state of the Natio
That Edward Griffin interview was excellent, thanks.
Good stuff for a snowed-in day in MD.
C
When do curbs kick in again?
AIG Lost money- then let's see their certified operating statements. If its real, then its proveable. If its a lie it's just another insurance company scam.
Far out. 68 handle on the Dow.
Mommy!
C
VIX Premium Shows Stocks Bear Market Lasting 2 Years (Update3) - Bloomberg.com
I gladly contributed about 74k to AIG's recent loss. It's called deleveraging. Do it while you still can.