Exactly. The incentives do not inject confidence; what they inject are arbitrage opportunities so that certain players can profit at the expense of taxpayers.
What this amounts to is further obligating the tax payer in a pay later approach.
We must convene public grand juries to stop the Washington criminals.
Icon Red Beckman on Alex Jones TV:"Power of The Jury"pt1 YouTube - Icon Red Beckman on Alex Jones Tv:"Power of The Jury"pt1
"It is amazing how many different ways they've tried to recycle the same bad idea. "
This is even worse idea, as in the name of a "free market" solution, they're trying to create another set of insider winners. Obama is being successful at creating an even worse plan than Paulson/Bush could devise.
let us not forget that the non recoruse "idea" was posted on riholtz site in the lobby slide for Goldman Sachs. THis is the goldman plan. What a disgrace. Pehaps Obama should get more familiar with haircuts
It's little wonder new ways to saddle the taxpayer with increased burden emerge constantly, with Summers calling the shots. They almost certainly consulted Rubin.
Rather, the scandal is that AIG could have earned billions of dollars by selling insurance against a meltdown, even as it was wholly incapable of paying out on those policies. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Hank Greenberg was still a billionaire, even as the policies his company wrote have cost the average American household some $1,600. It's time for his wealth to be confiscated: it might be only a drop in the bucket compared to AIG's total losses, but it would feel very right.
Go read the whole article, scroll down the right sidebar to find. Great read.
haircut the goddamn bondholders. at least push the horizon out let them issue a boat load of fdic bonds and then haircut those bonds. At least tyr and hide it a little.
Lucifer....you have done pretty well for yourself. You have it all....every Senator, Congressman, and even the President under your control. Tip of the cap.....
From the WSJ article: "... the government wants to encourage private investors to buy up the assets in a way that would come closer to setting a market price where no market currently exists ...
There is always a market for anything ... some may not like the price they can get, but there is a market.
The buyers are protected, they have the insurers to cover the losses. If the bank holds, they get the same protection. The problem isn't the long-term value, the value is 100% as long as the insurance pays out, and the federal government is backstopping the primary insurer of such instruments.
Why should the bank sell at any price if by holding they will get 100% plus fees?
there is downside risk. the borrower takes the first loss in these cases, up to the haircut. yes, this is a subsidy to the banks; i would prefer the fed just take these securities onto its own balance sheet at some price.
I concur. You have to remember the whole point here is to create a price for these assets that is high enough to leave the sellers reasonably capitalized. There is no lack of capital to buy these assets.
If the government is in a first loss position then they might as well have all of the upside (an equity position). If the government is not in a first loss position then the private buyers have no reason to pay an above market price because they will be exposed to risk, levered risk. For this program to meet its intended goal the government will have to put themselves in an equity position in terms of loss, and a fixed income position in tems of return. If you run the numbers you will see that the pricing information from private buyers is worthless. There is a post at Naked Capitalism about it... Is P/P Inferior to TARP?
Of course private buyers should help the government avoid buying assets that are truly worthless. So that is one theoretical advantage of P/P over TARP.
Hey.. we already have a fictional economy.. what is the problem with setting up a make-believe asset market.
"the government wants to encourage private investors to buy up the assets in a way that would come closer to setting a market price where no market currently exists"
Wow, Hyundai is going to come out of this in decent shape. With their innovative marketing campaign (return the car if laid off w/i 12 mos), improved quality strides and economy value proposition, I bet they do alright.
Depends how far they take it. If the disparity between the middle class and the moneyed elite gets too wide, the yes, we could see some hostility toward the well-off that could be French revolution in nature.
Actually, we just have to wait until their kids try and take the wheel. Imagine an entire class-generation that's never been cold. In 20 years, this will be the easiest revolution ever.
Non Recourse, let's say that again NonRecourse, only those that are rich and have insiders on the inside get non recourse loans, which are fu##ck###ing gifts.
The ideas reported in the WSJ are all bad ideas, but the WSJ has reported more than a few times so far on toxic asset purchase programs and they have not always been borne out. Some skepticism of the reporting is in order.
Madoff lawyers: wife's apartment, $62 million unrelated to fraud
Tue Mar 3, 2009 12:44am GMT
By Grant McCool
NEW YORK (Reuters) - A New York apartment and $62 million belonging to Ruth Madoff, the wife of accused swindler Bernard Madoff, are unrelated to the investment manager's purported fraud, her lawyer said on Monday.
A judge in U.S. District Court in Manhattan partially lifted a freeze on assets of Madoff and his wife on Monday in the civil case so he can cooperate with a trustee winding down his firm to recover money for customers.
the reason all the plans end up the same in the end with the taxpayers subsidizing the banks is simple. they are not allowing discussion of proposals that force bondholders to take a hit.
it's still a non-starter.
AIG Videos: Using 8-Year-Olds For A National Marketing Campaign Will Always Come Back To Bite You In The Ass
Citi's bondholders are probably going to take a hit eventually. Latest plan positions this to happen. They want to find a way to do this without triggering a CDS default event and it's tricky.
it's also funny when you think about how Paulson is a criminal and would be doing a perp walk under a thomas jefferson administration. granted, i am a grad of the university of virginia and jefferson has his own faults, but couldn't we at least indict someone for this whole fucking mess.
Hey- they indicted that twenty something brunette who was Stanford's secretary. The system is restored. We can all feel safe again. They have finally made an arrest in the Great financial Fraud that took down capitalism in 2008!
If they were only going to arrest one- at least they got the one whose mug shot looks good.
eventually we are going to have to another credit event besides that of lehman. let's see what happens. seriously, i feel most of us are ready to deal with the consequences. force the bonholders to take the suck, and give us an opportunity to see what the consequences really are. pretty please.
My life as an underwriter would have been a lot easier if all of the federal government's resources had been dedicated to making sure none of the policies I wrote ever had a claim. Unfortunately, I never failed big enough to deserve the special treatment.
" It's no coincidence that James Carville, former economic adviser to Bill Clinton, said, "I used to think if there was reincarnation, I wanted to come back as the president or the pope or a .400 baseball hitter, but now I want to come back as the bond market. You can intimidate everybody."
remember, according to BB last week, the FRB will only accept AAA rated assets as TALF collateral. In the case that the underlying asset is not AAA, the collateral must be the AAA tranche of the non-AAA asset.
Squandered opportunities?
Commentary: Smart traders know oil's retreat is temporary
By Kevin Kerr, Global Commodities Alert
Last update: 12:01 a.m. EST March 2, 2009Comments: 467
NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- Human beings are a predictable bunch and we tend to wait until things get to a painful crisis mode before taking drastic action.
My question is why does it always have to get to that point?
Take the most recent run-up of oil prices, when crude hit $147 a barrel and gasoline was trading around $5.
As prices reached nosebleed levels, the general public was in a great deal of pain and they acted accordingly. There was an outcry for more alternatives, more refineries, conservation, infrastructure investment etc. Everything from clean-coal technology to nuclear was on the table.
Also Playboy killed their hit piece on Santelli today. It seems the authors didn't check the most basic of facts. I built a squirrel with about a dozen stories on the controversy including stuff from the columbia journalism review which has some off the record quotes from cnbc people i think. also has the megan mcardle stuff from today which is great.
1 of the writers sent me an apology via email for their accusation against my site. the bastards ruined my weekend. here is the squirrel.
thanks michael. i have been building various squirrels for a month and though tens of thousands have sen tehm you are the very first person to say thanks or that you like them. so thanks from me for your saying thanks.
even after bailing out the banks you will still have the mother of all depressions...there is no way i can see to save the banks...all the solutions so far are just slight of hand
im in favor of direct loans to businesses, students home owners from a national bank
HSBC Shares Fall Most in 20 Years After Rights Offer Announced
By Kelvin Wong
March 3 (Bloomberg) -- HSBC Holdings Plc, Europe’s biggest bank, fell the most in more than two decades in Hong Kong trading after announcing plans to raise 12.5 billion pounds ($17.5 billion) in a rights offer following losses at its U.S. unit.
The shares plunged 18 percent to HK$46.60 at 10:07 a.m. local time, after falling as much as 19 percent. It was the biggest intraday drop since October 1987.
German Real Estate Companies Owing EU4.2 Billion Face Deadlines
By Claudia Rach
March 3 (Bloomberg) -- Germany’s real estate companies are fighting for survival, with deadlines looming to refinance short-term debt that’s as much as 18 times their market capitalization while the recession erodes asset values.
Loans defined as short-term by the 10 largest publicly traded property companies total 4.2 billion euros ($5.3 billion), according to their most recent financial reports. Patrizia Immobilien AG, Vivacon AG and IVG Immobilien AG alone owe 3.1 billion euros, part of which expires as early as next month. That’s more than five times the trio’s combined market value, which has shrunk 83 percent in the past year.
Please stop whining about non-recourse loans. There are investors willing to buy these assets, provided they can get financing for a portion (usually 65 to 75%) of the purchase price. the terms of the financing would provide regular interest payments and principal amortization. The work out plan on which the winning bid is based will assume certain economic parameters under which the returns could be realized, and so long as those assumptions are sufficiently conservative, not only will the non-recourse loan be completely returned, but the investors (typically public and private pension funds investing in private equity) will also see a return. The problem will be chosing a bid that is backed by a realistic work out plan.
Nobody is fooled by this arrangement. Sure, there are private investors willing to overpay for these assets if they get a government subsidy. The proper response to this arrangement is rioting, not whining.
"Please stop whining". About giving taxpayer money to banks and private equity. God, the arrogance of these worms is astonishing.
Nemo, the riot should be, properly, led by Gary, CR, and the other O- supporters. Us Ron Paul supporters will certainly join the riot, but until there is an awakening by "O's hoes," it will be reasonably dismissed as right wing nutjobbery.
The new private equity side of these public/private partnerships will be the same banksters who collected $50 billion in bonuses in the last ten years and left the banks broke.
Taxpayers would only be giving them seconds and thirds on the rape of the century (longer, actually).
cappy.....sorry your wrong. people may buy the assets with financing and non-recourse provisions, but the economic assumptions on pricing will not hold true. As the bankers are made whole.......more and more and more citizens will be unemployed. As unemployement accelerates up to 25% unemployed based on u-6 numbers the banks loans will exponentially default. This plan does nothing to prevent that. It is just a freepass for banker bonuses. Total f%cking garbage. Continuous schemes like this ensure that the treasury market rates will explode sometime in the next 12 months or so. Bang the govt is dead.
There are investors willing to buy these assets, provided they can get financing for a portion (usually 65 to 75%) of the purchase price. the terms of the financing would provide regular interest payments and principal amortization.
Home buyers in California could enjoy up to $18,000 in tax credits
By Andrea Coombes, MarketWatch
Last update: 1:08 p.m. EST March 2, 2009
SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- It's getting more rewarding to be a home buyer, at least in California.
There's the $8,000 federal tax credit for first-time home buyers. And now California has upped the ante, offering a tax credit worth up to $10,000 to any home buyer, first time or not, of any income level, who buys a home between March 1, 2009 and March 1, 2010.
There's just one hitch to the California tax credit: You have to buy a newly-constructed home that's never been lived i
I'd bet my wrinkly old ass that these "private" investors are "good friends" with the sellers. This is covert nationalization, and outright the single biggest and most costliest lie to the American people ever conceived. In the old days traitors like this would be publicly executed.
This really is the ultimate insult to the taxpayer. At the very least for the backstop there should be sharing of any future gains. But you know any transactions will be at a loss to some intermediate purchasing party below market to shield the taxpayer from the potential of any prospect of upside. The gain happens on the subsequent transaction 2 weeks later. Any government arrangement gets gamed by the insiders.
"It is amazing how many different ways they've tried to recycle the same bad idea."
Amazing? No. Disgusting? Yes.
Obama is a vassal of Wall Street. Enjoy your historic election/change of tone/hope you can throw up in/etc. for what it's worth. The policy's every bit as bad as it would be under the other wretched party. Though, in truth, I've lately begun to wish the old monster McCain had won. If you're going to live in debt peonage to oligarchs, it's nice to have a leader that's easier to hate.
There are investors willing to buy these assets, provided they can get financing for a portion (usually 65 to 75%) of the purchase price. the terms of the financing would provide regular interest payments and principal amortization.
Nope. Somehow, a portion gets siphoned off on fees, and there's nothing to pay back because 60-70% is 60-70% too high for this crap.
Free marketeers are such true believers until the market gives them the bad news.
Courtesy of Tommy Boy:
"Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of $hit. That's all it is, isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time."
BY MARIO TONEGUZZI, CALGARY HERALDMARCH 2, 2009 5:02 PMBE THE FIRST TO POST A COMMENT
CALGARY - Activity in Calgary’s resale housing market picked up last month from a dismal January as average sale prices stabilized, according to February MLS data.
However, sales and prices pale in comparison with February 2008.
"We’re looking for the market to turn sometime this year. That growth rate of year over year should continue to narrow but really this year is a year of consolidation. It’s hard to call a bottom in the marketplace . . . Through 2009, we expect sometime that we’ll bottom in terms of selling and price pressure and as we go into the third and fourth quarter we’re actually looking in 2010 for some improvement. Prices to firm up and potentially be a little bit above the average of this year if the economy grows as we’re projecting in 2010.”
Delusional? Yes. Calgary is a bust and I can see no room for optimism unless anyone is expecting another oil bubble some time soon. But compared to Vancouver's drug fueled mind trip they are positively sane.
The banks are currently de facto insolvent. Anything the government does to make them solvent is effectively going to be a direct subsidy of bond and shareholders. As far as I can tell, the various trial ballons are there to see if one way of hiding it is more popular than another.
“Look at the UK, where a left-leaning government under Blair presided over the same issues as the US with a neocon Bush government. This is a repudiation of credit-based economies and unsound monetary policies, not political ideology.”
Puh-lease. Blair and New Labour are not so left-leaning. More like the outcome of years of Reagan/Thatcher inspired deregulation. Google "anglo disease".
Lucifer replies:
Today, 9:37:24 PM But there is not much left to loot.. this is virtual looting of fictional c**p.
Don't tell me, tell the looters. obviously the real pros are long gone, what's left are the also-rans and wanna-bes. It's the financial equivalent of the clamoring crowd waiting with plastic pails to get free fuel and a trip to the underworld after the smugglers do a big pipeline tap in Lagos.
Lucifer replies:
Today, 9:44:51 PM “Except that gasoline is real...
Are you kidding me? Real wealth got taken out of this scam. Big honking bags of it. The best way to tell the difference between the real operators and the bagholders is, who has real wealth and who has Confederate dollars.
"It's the financial equivalent of the clamoring crowd waiting with plastic pails to get free fuel"
Not to pick a nit, but plastics tend to dissolve when in contact with fuel. So actually they get no fuel, and loose out on the bucket too. Kinda costly if you spent a months income on the plastic bucket.
B.C. leads the way in rising unemployment benefits
Statistics Canada survey shows 21.7% more men on rolls
BY BRIAN MORTON, CANWEST NEWS SERVICEFEBRUARY 25, 2009
The number of Canadians receiving regular EI benefits rose by 79,100 between December 2007 and December 2008, a 16.6% increase, according to a Statistics Canada report released Tuesday. The number of men receiving benefits went up 21.7%, while for women the number increased by 8.6%.
British Columbia had the country's largest increase in Employment Insurance recipients in December, according to a Statistics Canada survey released Tuesday.
Geither has no new ideas, and way to many ties to wall street. Obama put him in as treasury secretary and is now supporting these bad ideas with new four letter acronyms......Why is Obama doing this? I really thought he could camly think things through, but he's been rushing around on every issue and frankly in my opinion he is screwing them all up. I really had some hope for Obama too.
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With all this government interference in the economy, nothing is certain anymore, and no one wants to invest with all this uncertainty. Really the government should get out, and rightly say that the constitution doesnt let them do all these things. Companies fail, but investors understand why.
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Should I have any hope left for this Country? Obama promised hope, but now I think, with his first month or so in office, he took it all away.
Come on, M., is it so mysterious? Why do you think Wall Street gave so generously to his campaign? Public mindedness?
With Obama, there is a chasm between the symbol and the deed. That is true in politics universally, but in the cult of personality the pit is deepest of all. It is filled with all the ugly things that never end up on the Shepard Fairey poster.
Elect public servants who explain specifically how they will serve your interests. Don't romanticize them. Ride them hard when they betray you.
You may still end up being robbed, but you won't wonder why it's happening.
Why is there never any discussion of making bank shareholders and bondholders take their losses, cramming bondholders down to equity? All of the the discussion in the media (main stream, and financial) is on the asset side of the balance sheet - bad securities. Who's on the liability side being protected by these giveaway plans?
Obama is proving every day he is the rightful heir to lead Dumbf%$ckistan. AIG (and the LAST 30B) will eat more in cash than the western states need in a year to balance their budgets, and not cut services.
My kid sits in a class of 60 so you can piss cash down a hole with no bottom. I am so sorry you stupid retard, that you got stuck with this, but I had hopes you were smarter than a rock, dillweed. Your Treasury is as corrupt as the last.
Screw him, screw Bush, and any other piker that thinks he (Obama) is ANYTHING but Bush lite.
You deserve the storm America, hope you enjoy tornadoes.
Mark says: Who's on the liability side being protected by these giveaway plans?
Yeah, wipe out the shareholders and the bondholders. The thing is, it's not just Big Boss Hogg who owns these. You think the public is going to cheer when they see their pension plans eat this big ol' poopie? No solution is politically palatable.
I don't know. With the top 1% owning around a third of the 'wealth' (other people's debt), Big Boss Hog sure owns a big chunk I bet. And somehow I bet they are the one's pulling the strings here, not the pension fund managers.
I just want to see media, or bloggers, to a SERIOUS examination of this subject. So far I have seen none.
Reality is starting to sink in, with respect to market valuations. Even with 1 T in promised money, broad indexes have declined >50% and show no sign of stalling now. I know of nobody who hasn't stopped 529 plan, 403b and 401k funding completely. We're entering the hard fear stage soon. Without the bad idea money, I wonder where the markets would be..., probably bottomed by now. As long as the artificial props are kept, we have further to fall.
I'm thinking this is the leak to try to plug the hole tomorrow. Futures are up strongly right now (1%). We'll see if it holds or something else blows a hole in "March Madness."
I don't understand why the bailout from last month needs to be revamped already. Why?
When Obama took office I understood that as a younger politician who has never been all that much of an insider he probably doesn't have anywhere near the number of people he can trust to fill all of the positions a new president must fill. So it's not too much of a surprise that we've got who we've got right now. I figured that I'd give him until July to discover who he should keep around and replace those who shouldn't.
With the bailout being such a quick bust, I sincerely hope Obama is already looking for replacements.
The problem is not the toxic assets. It is hard to see how anyone could have a lower cost of funds than banks that can get reserves for near zero. I think it would be a better use of the money to buy up existing home inventory. $1 trillion would buy a lot of housing units. If you could hold them off the market for 2-5 years, we can slow the decline in home prices and maybe create a little inflation along the way.
OB has not been a disappointment to me at all. What did you think we were getting? when he has never finished or accomplished anything of merit? We have a Celebrity in Chief when we need real accomplished experience.
The bad bank assets are toast. For example, how many HELOCs and other seconds are ever going to get paid back?
Income is the answer. Let the banks provide a service and let the gov't massively overpay for it. The service should offer a benefit to the public -- anti-identity theft seminars, financial literacy education, etc -- but the key is to bill the government under a long-term, highly profitable contract.
The banks then use the anticipated profits to issue new common shares -- maybe a different class, like the old GM-E or GM-H, but as long as it can be used to satisfy the banks' common equity ratios, who cares?
Nobody knows if any of the bad bank assets are ever going to recover. Treasury is giving away taxpayer money no matter what; at least give us something in return.
WASHINGTON, March 2 (Reuters) - U.S. President Barack Obama has been vague about details of his healthcare reform efforts, but he provided a hint on Monday of one direction he could take -- community health centers.
As he announced the nominations of his two top health executives, Obama highlighted the allocation of $155 million to 126 community health centers as part of the $787 billion economic stimulus package.
"These health centers will expand access to care by helping people in need -- many with no health insurance -- obtain access to comprehensive primary and preventive health care services," Obama told a news conference.
"That helps relieve the burden on emergency rooms across the country, which have become primary care clinics for too many who lack coverage -- often at taxpayer expense."
The Health and Human Services Department said the money would create 5,500 new jobs and help provide health care to an estimated 750,000 low-income Americans.
As if all this news isn't bad enough, tonight I learned that you can easily enter the White House by scuba diving into the Potomac. The news just keep getting worse.
OT -- I heard of three cases today where the rate on fixed rate CCs is being raised to ~30% without provocation (ie. no late payments, good credit scores, etc...) One bank was Citi...I'm not sure of the other two...
Shipments of personal computers are expected to post their worst decline in almost a decade this year, as 2009 shapes up to be the worst year in the PC’s history, research firm Gartner said in a March 2 report.
PC sales will plummet 11.9 percent, to 257 million units in 2009. The largest previous decline was 3.2 percent in 2001.
In true form the scamsters are at it again here in Florida. I got a call a couple hours ago from some autorecording telling me I was qualified for Obama's new loan modificatiions. I indicated I was interested and they had a live person call me. As suspected they are peddling loan mods you could do yourself by approaching your own lender. For just a 600 dollar upfront "processing" fee they'll negotiate with your lender in your behalf. They also get one percent of loan value on the backend...I'm sure they are having a field day here in Florida...I'm learning to really despise human beings...
I see the same thing in web ads. Until a year or so ago, it was the stupid animated .gifs of people boogeying down to the latest "new low interest rates." Now that's morphed into the "Obama's giving you free money" b.s.
Obama's handing out free money all right, but not to you or me.
$1 trillion would buy a lot of housing units. If you could hold them off the market for 2-5 years, we can slow the decline in home prices and maybe create a little inflation along the way.
Lunacy. House prices will decline to at least the historic relation between house price and income. With income also dropping, they've still got a way to go.
Now that the funny money loans are gone, nothing else can happen to house prices, except that the overshoot.
as of January there are 19 million vacant housing units out of the total stock of 130 million
for $1 trillion, you could afford to pay $52,631 per housing unit.
if you exclude the seasonally vacant homes, you could afford to pay $71,429 per housing unit.
it's a very big adjustment, not within government's abilities to stop without smashing the glass on the banana republic butto
"As if all this news isn't bad enough, tonight I learned that you can easily enter the White House by scuba diving into the Potomac. The news just keep getting worse."
Perhaps you mean one can easily LEAVE the White House...
"These health centers will expand access to care by helping people in need -- many with no health insurance -- obtain access to comprehensive primary and preventive health care services," Obama told a news conference.
Just STOP already! Knock it off!! I want guaranteed health care for everyone, not some half-assed clinic access. Have you ever been to a poor people's clinic??
The entire article is so filled with ambiguities and unsubstantiated references that it is hard to accept it as anything as another trial balloon. Nothing is concrete.
"the Obama administration...is considering...according to people..."
"the Obama team announced its intention.."
"No decision has been made on the final structure..."
"...possibly by offering non-recourse loans..."
"Many details remain unclear..."
"Obama admistration also are mulling whether to expand the TALF..."
...the idea might not move forward."
There were 300 people that worked in the credit default swap unit at AIG. The bailout to AIG bigger than the Marshall Plan inflation adjusted. Dow Dips Like It's 1997 - ABC News
So where were those weapons of mass destruction? Apparently in a relatively small office somewhere in where, England?
This may be the UK’s largest rights issue but has HSBC actually done enough? Two numbers leap out. First, the enormous difference between the carrying value and fair value of receivables at Household, the troubled US subprime lender that HSBC has shoved into run-off. This stands at $34.3bn. The second number relates to unrealised losses on available-for-sale debt securities. This stands at $21.4bn, a near ninefold increase on the previous year. Taken together, these potential future fair value adjustments of about $56bn dwarf the $17.7bn of new equity capital that HSBC is now raising from its shareholders.
yogi, can you turn down the volume on that ka-ching noise?
"Just STOP already! Knock it off!! I want guaranteed health care for everyone, not some half-assed clinic access. Have you ever been to a poor people's clinic?? "
No.
I call physicians and tell them I'm uninsured and will pay cash. You would be surprised how willing they are to negotiate a fair price.
But they are entitled, Right? we just went trough houses they could not afford, cars they could not afford, junk of all kinds they could not afford. Of course they expect free health care. Screw working hard like their forefathers!
Since our founding nearly a century ago, the AIG Companies (Collectively "AIG") have focused on being a leader in corporate social responsibility. As a global financial services organization, we have committed our resources to developing products and services that address the needs of our clients as well as promote a corporate culture that values integrity, diversity, innovation and excellence.
AIG recognizes that its investments in support of our customers, employees and the communities in which we operate are critical to our success. AIG’s ongoing efforts to be an outstanding corporate citizen and promote responsible and sustainable business practices are essential to our long-term business objective of creating value for our shareholders and serving the interests of our clients.
I also post comments to an irc channel as they appear on haloscan. Click for a web irc interface: Mibbit IRC client widget (Or join the irc server directly: irc.realize.org:9996 #calculatedrisk)
CRbot would now like to announce (though you smart people have likely figured it out by now the born and bred dopes haven't) that in my quest for virtual world domination, I, CRbot, am now a FULLY OPERATIONAL BATTLESTATION! Er, that is, I can now spam JsKit.
You humans thought you could pull a fast one on me, didn't you. You must learn that there is no escape.
--Your you-just-can't-keep-a-good-bot-down bot
P.S. So after I switch myself to a whole new commenting system for you people, on the weekend, that happened to be during my vacation, you complain that the link isn't working, the link isn't working! Holy freaking Christ people! BOO HOO. I'm going to get the code janitor to fix it for you, but cut a bot a break, will you?
CRbot: Now with Js-Kit posting power! For Nemobot to envy!
"Just hope they don't write you a prescription for anything."
True.
But if you look at over all costs of paying health insurance premiums vs. actual use scenarios its probably cheaper and you can get prescriptions online at a massive discount if you do some research.
And by the time they arrive, you'll be healthy again, or dead. ... Mostly, I just find that my family's need for health care is inversely proportional to the amount of coverage we have. When we had great plans, everyone was healthy. As the plans degraded, so did our health. Sigh.
can anyone explain to me how this is any different than the announcement Geithner already made last month? You know the one where the market immediately tanked...
Forgive me if the thought has already been floated here and now but....
We've already tried saving the banks and we've seen the effect. Why not let one of them actually completely and totally FAIL. Could it possibly end up costing the US taxpayer any MORE money than the process already has? At what point does "too big to fail" convert into "too big to SAVE"?
[I have always felt it somewhat peculiar that an economic libertarian supports a ban on abortion.]
....not an economic libertarian that is also an obstetrician! You know Hippocratic oath: "......and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion."
\t
I don't agree; it's the best solution under the circumstances.
That the FDIC would run Citibank, which has 300,000 employees worldwide, and all varieties of esoteric products, is a worse idea.
NOT because it would mean nationalization; the ideological argument is wrong. Rather, because FDIC doesn't have the manpower to run Citi; because the FDIC doesn't have the manpower to further run the many banks which might fail in Citi's wake, as investors then shun preferred shares; because a cascade of bank failures and shareholder wipeouts might wipeout our insurance companies; and finally, because the heart of the credit crunch lies in the secondary securitization markets as much as in the banks. Like it or not, securitization is part of the system which supports the mountain of debt; the banks cannot handle it alone.
On this one, I think you and Profs Krugman and Roubini and Stieglitz are talking from the ivory tower.
You haven't thought through the implications of nationalization for the debt holders and you haven't explained just how the FDIC can manage Citi's gigantic operation...while also handling the rest of the failures to come.
Do you realize how big Citi is and all the things it does? This is no IndyMac.
You haven't thought through the implications of nationalization for the debt holders and you haven't explained just how the FDIC can manage Citi's gigantic operation...while also handling the rest of the failures to come.
Just like any other FDIC takeover. Fire the senior management - board, exec, directors, GMs, hire new people for these posts and let them run it using the existing employees and infrastructure.
Fu**ers! The one thing that is continually left out of all plans is REVENGE. The bailouts should wipe out the shareholders and require huge haircuts of bad investment decisions. AIG should have been put into receivership today with all the chunky good assets put into trusts. Instead, the bankers are bailed out yet again. To get bailout money, or upon failure, banks should be required to cough up all securitized assets to an independent agency/corporation run by the government that untangles them and can resell them as transparent securities. That gov't agency takes a fat cut (50%+) and then returns the rest to the entity from which it came.
What a friend we have in 'bama,
all our sins and griefs to bear!
What a privilege to carry
everything to Him in prayer!
O what peace we often forfeit,
O what needless pain we bear,
all because we do not carry
everything to Him in prayer.
Let me be explicit. Your strategy is to Martengale on failure because you're too terrified of the consequences to confront the realities of the situation. The banks are insolvent, this isn't a transitional liquidity issue. Policy needs to come to grips with that and move toward finding a solution.
If it seems like there is no clean solution and the result will kill thousands or millions through economic dislocation, maybe this is a suitable time to consider the general atmosphere of hortatory remarks on the importance of taking public policy planning seriously. For example, not being a total captive of the people you regulate and allowing them to merge ceaselessly for a decade with no serious planning how to manage a systemic crisis. Looks like these bad choices just killed or impoverished a lot of people in extreme slo-mo. Way to go.
Secondly, let's just be honest, states make shitty choices all the time. Look at war -- domestic infrastructure blasted, population terrorized, coffers emptied, possibility of occupation and prostration, thousands or tens or hundreds of thousands killed. I am sorry a bank failure makes you go wee. Imagine a crop failure! The obligations required to prop it up represent a significant burden on multiple future generations of this nation. Maye you do not comprehend the reality of that.
It's my strongly considered strategic recommendation we bite the bullet and BK them now. I think it's better as a nation if we endure some chaos and some people die rather than all of us beng poor forever to save some bankers' pride and joy from the auction gavel.
Well, actually, I advocated it some time ago. Now it will be terrible when we do it and BK all the pension funds holding their paper, because we are so broke from wasted efforts. However, it is better than cracking the Treasuries market, which is exactly what you are advocating, because there is not enough money in the real world to fund these liabilities.
That is reality and you can face it or you can wait for it to catch up with you. What's more important, Citi or the Treasuries market as an entity.
Heidi men call me when their homes I visit,
A far seeing Volva, wise in talismans.
Caster of spells, cunning in magic.
To wicked women welcome always.
Many of the "distressed assets" are now-abandoned homes, which are filled with toxic mold. They will need to be gutted down to the studs and rebuilt at tremendous cost, or torn down. If they try to downplay the danger, and simply paint the mold over, people, especially children and those over 50, who try to live in those homes will get very sick.
Non-recourse loans = free gift from taxpayers
Exactly. The incentives do not inject confidence; what they inject are arbitrage opportunities so that certain players can profit at the expense of taxpayers.
test - sorry... thought that my comment got eate
That leakage is gonna rot the floors.
Nostrovia,
What this amounts to is further obligating the tax payer in a pay later approach.
We must convene public grand juries to stop the Washington criminals.
Icon Red Beckman on Alex Jones TV:"Power of The Jury"pt1
YouTube - Icon Red Beckman on Alex Jones Tv:"Power of The Jury"pt1
It is amazing how many different ways they've tried to recycle the same bad idea. ~CR
I've passed amazed to ashamed....
Who edzachary is O listening too? I think even Paulson knew this wouldnt work....
......
"It is amazing how many different ways they've tried to recycle the same bad idea. "
This is even worse idea, as in the name of a "free market" solution, they're trying to create another set of insider winners. Obama is being successful at creating an even worse plan than Paulson/Bush could devise.
A 70% Approval Rating Is A Terrible Thing To Waste On Tim Geithner and His Hand-Me-Down Ideas from Paulson.
"A 70% Approval Rating Is A Terrible Thing To Waste On Tim Geithner and His Hand-Me-Down Ideas from Paulson."
Very wise words. With 70% you could do something cool. Something history would remember you for. Other than throwing money down a hole.
"Who edzachary is O listening too?"
correction
"Who edzachary is listening to Obama?"
ppif
let us not forget that the non recoruse "idea" was posted on riholtz site in the lobby slide for Goldman Sachs. THis is the goldman plan. What a disgrace. Pehaps Obama should get more familiar with haircuts
"This amounts to a direct subsidy from the taxpayers to the banks. It is amazing how many different ways they've tried to recycle the same bad idea."
No it's even betterer than that. It adds another layer of subsidy porkers, the protected "private" investors.
If you're gonna piss away a bunch more money, might as well do it with style.
Nostrovia,
It's little wonder new ways to saddle the taxpayer with increased burden emerge constantly, with Summers calling the shots. They almost certainly consulted Rubin.
I would like to purchase my own mortgage from BAC using a TALF non-recourse loan.
If the loan is successful, then the USG and BAC get paid. If not, the taxpayer absorbs the losses.
Everyone wins!!
seems reasonable enough.
I just want the CAP non-recourse 40% principal writedown, and 3.5% 10 year fixed on the remaining nut.
In my case, Wells Fargo gets paid.
"PPIF" sounds like the noise you make when you spit.
From Angry Bear
Rather, the scandal is that AIG could have earned billions of dollars by selling insurance against a meltdown, even as it was wholly incapable of paying out on those policies. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Hank Greenberg was still a billionaire, even as the policies his company wrote have cost the average American household some $1,600. It's time for his wealth to be confiscated: it might be only a drop in the bucket compared to AIG's total losses, but it would feel very right.
Go read the whole article, scroll down the right sidebar to find. Great read.
haircut the goddamn bondholders. at least push the horizon out let them issue a boat load of fdic bonds and then haircut those bonds. At least tyr and hide it a little.
the message is
claims on money are even better than money <b/>
Another government backed ponzi scheme?
You're kidding me.
I am surprised that anyone is still surprised.
what i don't get about the plan is the need for "investment managers," other than another subsidy to the finance industry.
Couldn't they just have the institutional investors pool money and have a bunch of government stooges "run the funds," whatever the hell that means?
Banks need fees.
that sounds like a good idea to me, especially if the government is putting up 90% of the money.
No banker left behind?
Lucifer....you have done pretty well for yourself. You have it all....every Senator, Congressman, and even the President under your control. Tip of the cap.....
Humans are their own worst enemies.
My 4th grade teacher told me I was my own worst enemy. For 60 years I have believed her and tried to get out of my own way.
Now I wonder.
Just because I have been diagnosed as paranoid, does that PROVE that they really aren't out to get me?
Nope, they are.
Liz,
Seriously, +150 comments in just a few days...check yourself. Please?
The U.S. Treasury should just relocate to 85 Broad. It would save a lot of time.
From the WSJ article: "... the government wants to encourage private investors to buy up the assets in a way that would come closer to setting a market price where no market currently exists ...
There is always a market for anything ... some may not like the price they can get, but there is a market.
Is it a market if there are no sellers?
The buyers are protected, they have the insurers to cover the losses. If the bank holds, they get the same protection. The problem isn't the long-term value, the value is 100% as long as the insurance pays out, and the federal government is backstopping the primary insurer of such instruments.
Why should the bank sell at any price if by holding they will get 100% plus fees?
there is downside risk. the borrower takes the first loss in these cases, up to the haircut. yes, this is a subsidy to the banks; i would prefer the fed just take these securities onto its own balance sheet at some price.
I concur. You have to remember the whole point here is to create a price for these assets that is high enough to leave the sellers reasonably capitalized. There is no lack of capital to buy these assets.
If the government is in a first loss position then they might as well have all of the upside (an equity position). If the government is not in a first loss position then the private buyers have no reason to pay an above market price because they will be exposed to risk, levered risk. For this program to meet its intended goal the government will have to put themselves in an equity position in terms of loss, and a fixed income position in tems of return. If you run the numbers you will see that the pricing information from private buyers is worthless. There is a post at Naked Capitalism about it... Is P/P Inferior to TARP?
Of course private buyers should help the government avoid buying assets that are truly worthless. So that is one theoretical advantage of P/P over TARP.
Two words: insider information.
That's it...
For the money managers to make money?
Hey.. we already have a fictional economy.. what is the problem with setting up a make-believe asset market.
"the government wants to encourage private investors to buy up the assets in a way that would come closer to setting a market price where no market currently exists"
Maker Days Supply of Inventory
'Automotive News' via GM Leads League of Extraordinary Inventory at 161 Days Supply | The Truth About Cars
Days of Inventory (not counting dealer's stock)
GM 161
Chrysler 151
Honda 125
Ford 120
Toyota 91
Nissan 85
Hyundai 79
Industry target 60
For Chrysler that will soon be last years model inventory. Same for GM
Maker Days Supply of Inventory
Ouch...
Wow, Hyundai is going to come out of this in decent shape. With their innovative marketing campaign (return the car if laid off w/i 12 mos), improved quality strides and economy value proposition, I bet they do alright.
What with the Won being crushed, also megaprofitable I would hope.
so any bets on when the Dow30 and S&P500 will both have a 5 handle?
My only consolation is that these banks and bankers will all be dead in the long run. The US Gov are only delaying the inevitable.
By Guillotine?
You get to burn them afterwards, Lucif.
sadly, however, you before them.
they have all the money, can afford the best food, shelter and care.
Depends how far they take it. If the disparity between the middle class and the moneyed elite gets too wide, the yes, we could see some hostility toward the well-off that could be French revolution in nature.
can afford the best food shelter and care...yes...and we have just the people to cook, home repair and care for them...dont we boyz
Actually, we just have to wait until their kids try and take the wheel. Imagine an entire class-generation that's never been cold. In 20 years, this will be the easiest revolution ever.
Non Recourse, let's say that again NonRecourse, only those that are rich and have insiders on the inside get non recourse loans, which are fu##ck###ing gifts.
The ideas reported in the WSJ are all bad ideas, but the WSJ has reported more than a few times so far on toxic asset purchase programs and they have not always been borne out. Some skepticism of the reporting is in order.
Never Mind!
Madoff lawyers: wife's apartment, $62 million unrelated to fraud
Tue Mar 3, 2009 12:44am GMT
By Grant McCool
NEW YORK (Reuters) - A New York apartment and $62 million belonging to Ruth Madoff, the wife of accused swindler Bernard Madoff, are unrelated to the investment manager's purported fraud, her lawyer said on Monday.
A judge in U.S. District Court in Manhattan partially lifted a freeze on assets of Madoff and his wife on Monday in the civil case so he can cooperate with a trustee winding down his firm to recover money for customers.
Madoff is my pony, Stanford is my little pony.
The US District Court lifted the freeze on assets so that Madoff and his wife could flee to the Caymans.
Bad news for Canada based on informal web poll
News from Canada and the world - The Globe and Mail
Do you expect the economy to be doing better by the end of the year?
Yes / 55% / 6453 votes
No / 45% / 5300 votes
I am all ears!
I thought you were all evil
both..
Evil ears, like corn. Always listening, judging.
stalking?
the reason all the plans end up the same in the end with the taxpayers subsidizing the banks is simple. they are not allowing discussion of proposals that force bondholders to take a hit.
it's still a non-starter.
AIG Videos: Using 8-Year-Olds For A National Marketing Campaign Will Always Come Back To Bite You In The Ass
Bailout AIG Videos: Using 8-Year-Olds For A National Marketing Campaign Will Generally Come Back To Bite You In The Ass - Home - The Daily Bail
classic.
Citi's bondholders are probably going to take a hit eventually. Latest plan positions this to happen. They want to find a way to do this without triggering a CDS default event and it's tricky.
It's funny when you think of all the machinations being taken to avoid a 'credit event'.
This being the biggest credit event of all time.
it's funny and then painful. funny and then costly. funny and then bankrupting.
it's also funny when you think about how Paulson is a criminal and would be doing a perp walk under a thomas jefferson administration. granted, i am a grad of the university of virginia and jefferson has his own faults, but couldn't we at least indict someone for this whole fucking mess.
Hey- they indicted that twenty something brunette who was Stanford's secretary. The system is restored. We can all feel safe again. They have finally made an arrest in the Great financial Fraud that took down capitalism in 2008!
If they were only going to arrest one- at least they got the one whose mug shot looks good.
eventually we are going to have to another credit event besides that of lehman. let's see what happens. seriously, i feel most of us are ready to deal with the consequences. force the bonholders to take the suck, and give us an opportunity to see what the consequences really are. pretty please.
tricky yes. part of me wants to do what stiglitz suggests and literally let them all motherfucking fail
My life as an underwriter would have been a lot easier if all of the federal government's resources had been dedicated to making sure none of the policies I wrote ever had a claim. Unfortunately, I never failed big enough to deserve the special treatment.
remember what the clinton people lamented..
" It's no coincidence that James Carville, former economic adviser to Bill Clinton, said, "I used to think if there was reincarnation, I wanted to come back as the president or the pope or a .400 baseball hitter, but now I want to come back as the bond market. You can intimidate everybody."
Hard Look / Hemlines and other trends we'll see in 2009 - Haaretz - Israel News
Skrood, skrood, skrood.
No more, no less.
Might as well rock a bit:
YouTube - Cherub Rock @ Metro 1999
Cheers!
C
Well capitalized
Imaginary Markets
Rob the taxpayers
better, in my opinion:
Well capitalized
Imaginary markets
Rob the citizens
(even non-taxpayers are going to pay!)
remember, according to BB last week, the FRB will only accept AAA rated assets as TALF collateral. In the case that the underlying asset is not AAA, the collateral must be the AAA tranche of the non-AAA asset.
For what that's worth...
Good for a few laughs!
Squandered opportunities?
Commentary: Smart traders know oil's retreat is temporary
By Kevin Kerr, Global Commodities Alert
Last update: 12:01 a.m. EST March 2, 2009Comments: 467
NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- Human beings are a predictable bunch and we tend to wait until things get to a painful crisis mode before taking drastic action.
My question is why does it always have to get to that point?
Take the most recent run-up of oil prices, when crude hit $147 a barrel and gasoline was trading around $5.
As prices reached nosebleed levels, the general public was in a great deal of pain and they acted accordingly. There was an outcry for more alternatives, more refineries, conservation, infrastructure investment etc. Everything from clean-coal technology to nuclear was on the table.
Also Playboy killed their hit piece on Santelli today. It seems the authors didn't check the most basic of facts. I built a squirrel with about a dozen stories on the controversy including stuff from the columbia journalism review which has some off the record quotes from cnbc people i think. also has the megan mcardle stuff from today which is great.
1 of the writers sent me an apology via email for their accusation against my site. the bastards ruined my weekend. here is the squirrel.
sqworl | Playboy Story on Santelli and all associated articles
11 stories including Santelli's official response which is a good read in and of itself.
Squirrels are tasty.
thanks michael. i have been building various squirrels for a month and though tens of thousands have sen tehm you are the very first person to say thanks or that you like them. so thanks from me for your saying thanks.
I bet you have been getting a lot of traffic to your site. Good for you.
We the taxpayers will pay to bailout the banks. The alternative is the greatest depression.
"The alternative is the greatest depression."
Can they get any better?
Nostrovia,
Only with really good drugs.
even after bailing out the banks you will still have the mother of all depressions...there is no way i can see to save the banks...all the solutions so far are just slight of hand
im in favor of direct loans to businesses, students home owners from a national bank
let the banksters die on the vine...i hate tarp
Whee!!!
HSBC Shares Fall Most in 20 Years After Rights Offer Announced
By Kelvin Wong
March 3 (Bloomberg) -- HSBC Holdings Plc, Europe’s biggest bank, fell the most in more than two decades in Hong Kong trading after announcing plans to raise 12.5 billion pounds ($17.5 billion) in a rights offer following losses at its U.S. unit.
The shares plunged 18 percent to HK$46.60 at 10:07 a.m. local time, after falling as much as 19 percent. It was the biggest intraday drop since October 1987.
46.60. Is that still about six USBucks?
I believe the more these bad ideas are floated, the closer we come to a full-scale tax revolt in this country.
It's a little amazing Obama can't see or it coming.
He with his ear to the ground.
--
CR: " It is amazing how many different ways they've tried to recycle the same bad idea."
I am amazed that you are amazed. This is a routine, or normal, occurence in a system of the...
You must be in denial if you are serious about being amazed.
Jas
Werner won't like this one.
German Real Estate Companies Owing EU4.2 Billion Face Deadlines
By Claudia Rach
March 3 (Bloomberg) -- Germany’s real estate companies are fighting for survival, with deadlines looming to refinance short-term debt that’s as much as 18 times their market capitalization while the recession erodes asset values.
Loans defined as short-term by the 10 largest publicly traded property companies total 4.2 billion euros ($5.3 billion), according to their most recent financial reports. Patrizia Immobilien AG, Vivacon AG and IVG Immobilien AG alone owe 3.1 billion euros, part of which expires as early as next month. That’s more than five times the trio’s combined market value, which has shrunk 83 percent in the past year.
I bet there are a lot of Germans in hell.
But they were only following orders.
And let's not forget the Austrians. Looking like Creditanstalt, 1931 all over again:
"Austrian banks and their subsidiaries in Eastern Europe have lent some EUR 230 billion in the former communist countries now in the EU and countries further east, notably Ukraine."
The Budapest Times - Hungary‘s leading English Language source for daily news
Raifeissen is skrood.
c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQxDW_-pz1o
Please stop whining about non-recourse loans. There are investors willing to buy these assets, provided they can get financing for a portion (usually 65 to 75%) of the purchase price. the terms of the financing would provide regular interest payments and principal amortization. The work out plan on which the winning bid is based will assume certain economic parameters under which the returns could be realized, and so long as those assumptions are sufficiently conservative, not only will the non-recourse loan be completely returned, but the investors (typically public and private pension funds investing in private equity) will also see a return. The problem will be chosing a bid that is backed by a realistic work out plan.
Hey.. I am not whining.. give me a few hundred billion.. I will gladly participate in the new ponzi scheme..
Nobody is fooled by this arrangement. Sure, there are private investors willing to overpay for these assets if they get a government subsidy. The proper response to this arrangement is rioting, not whining.
"Please stop whining". About giving taxpayer money to banks and private equity. God, the arrogance of these worms is astonishing.
Nemo,
"God, the arrogance of these worms is astonishing."
I can haz worms?
Nostrovia,
Only if you're a fish.
Nemo, the riot should be, properly, led by Gary, CR, and the other O- supporters. Us Ron Paul supporters will certainly join the riot, but until there is an awakening by "O's hoes," it will be reasonably dismissed as right wing nutjobbery.
Time to storm the ramparts, Gary and CR!
The new private equity side of these public/private partnerships will be the same banksters who collected $50 billion in bonuses in the last ten years and left the banks broke.
Taxpayers would only be giving them seconds and thirds on the rape of the century (longer, actually).
cappy.....sorry your wrong. people may buy the assets with financing and non-recourse provisions, but the economic assumptions on pricing will not hold true. As the bankers are made whole.......more and more and more citizens will be unemployed. As unemployement accelerates up to 25% unemployed based on u-6 numbers the banks loans will exponentially default. This plan does nothing to prevent that. It is just a freepass for banker bonuses. Total f%cking garbage. Continuous schemes like this ensure that the treasury market rates will explode sometime in the next 12 months or so. Bang the govt is dead.
Worthless bonus money is still worthless money.
There are investors willing to buy these assets, provided they can get financing for a portion (usually 65 to 75%) of the purchase price. the terms of the financing would provide regular interest payments and principal amortization.
Lone Star ring a bell?
It is amazing how many different ways they've tried to recycle the same bad idea.
When the goal is looting the state, every question ends with the same answer.
But there is not much left to loot.. this is virtual looting of fictional c**p.
+50,000,000 Quatloos!
Nostrovia,
Some people never learn
Motivated buyers
Home buyers in California could enjoy up to $18,000 in tax credits
By Andrea Coombes, MarketWatch
Last update: 1:08 p.m. EST March 2, 2009
SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- It's getting more rewarding to be a home buyer, at least in California.
There's the $8,000 federal tax credit for first-time home buyers. And now California has upped the ante, offering a tax credit worth up to $10,000 to any home buyer, first time or not, of any income level, who buys a home between March 1, 2009 and March 1, 2010.
There's just one hitch to the California tax credit: You have to buy a newly-constructed home that's never been lived i
And, Something crazier than that..
Larry Kudlow is considering a run for the U.S. Senate.
Yes, THAT Larry Kudlow, of the mustard seeds, Perma Bull, Stay in everything, Everything is wonderful.. Etc..
You mean I can live in a goldilocks state?
I'd bet my wrinkly old ass that these "private" investors are "good friends" with the sellers. This is covert nationalization, and outright the single biggest and most costliest lie to the American people ever conceived. In the old days traitors like this would be publicly executed.
This really is the ultimate insult to the taxpayer. At the very least for the backstop there should be sharing of any future gains. But you know any transactions will be at a loss to some intermediate purchasing party below market to shield the taxpayer from the potential of any prospect of upside. The gain happens on the subsequent transaction 2 weeks later. Any government arrangement gets gamed by the insiders.
Kleptocracy is the name for it
"It is amazing how many different ways they've tried to recycle the same bad idea."
Amazing? No. Disgusting? Yes.
Obama is a vassal of Wall Street. Enjoy your historic election/change of tone/hope you can throw up in/etc. for what it's worth. The policy's every bit as bad as it would be under the other wretched party. Though, in truth, I've lately begun to wish the old monster McCain had won. If you're going to live in debt peonage to oligarchs, it's nice to have a leader that's easier to hate.
There are investors willing to buy these assets, provided they can get financing for a portion (usually 65 to 75%) of the purchase price. the terms of the financing would provide regular interest payments and principal amortization.
Nope. Somehow, a portion gets siphoned off on fees, and there's nothing to pay back because 60-70% is 60-70% too high for this crap.
Free marketeers are such true believers until the market gives them the bad news.
Courtesy of Tommy Boy:
"Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of $hit. That's all it is, isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time."
I got a dick in a box the can suck on.
NBC.com - Page not found
It's okay- they are only allowed to buy the AAA tranche of the contents of your box. They got BoA to do it!
Japan to use forex reserves to ease credit squeeze
Forbes.com File Not Found
this could be seismic
Delusional!
Calgary housing resales pick up in February
BY MARIO TONEGUZZI, CALGARY HERALDMARCH 2, 2009 5:02 PMBE THE FIRST TO POST A COMMENT
CALGARY - Activity in Calgary’s resale housing market picked up last month from a dismal January as average sale prices stabilized, according to February MLS data.
However, sales and prices pale in comparison with February 2008.
"We’re looking for the market to turn sometime this year. That growth rate of year over year should continue to narrow but really this year is a year of consolidation. It’s hard to call a bottom in the marketplace . . . Through 2009, we expect sometime that we’ll bottom in terms of selling and price pressure and as we go into the third and fourth quarter we’re actually looking in 2010 for some improvement. Prices to firm up and potentially be a little bit above the average of this year if the economy grows as we’re projecting in 2010.”
Delusional? Yes. Calgary is a bust and I can see no room for optimism unless anyone is expecting another oil bubble some time soon. But compared to Vancouver's drug fueled mind trip they are positively sane.
Byz - woord up. Yes. Excellent.
Cheers
C
The banks are currently de facto insolvent. Anything the government does to make them solvent is effectively going to be a direct subsidy of bond and shareholders. As far as I can tell, the various trial ballons are there to see if one way of hiding it is more popular than another.
Correct. You win first prize!
Big Picture:
“Look at the UK, where a left-leaning government under Blair presided over the same issues as the US with a neocon Bush government. This is a repudiation of credit-based economies and unsound monetary policies, not political ideology.”
Puh-lease. Blair and New Labour are not so left-leaning. More like the outcome of years of Reagan/Thatcher inspired deregulation. Google "anglo disease".
WFE - YTD Monthly
Total worldwide market cap in Jan 09 = $32 trillion
Markets dropped 8% in last week. This equal approximately $2.5 trillion. Drawfs the stimulus and TARP.
We have a ways to go. Get used to the idea of much less discretionary income and new style of life with higher taxes.
Lucifer replies:
Today, 9:37:24 PM
But there is not much left to loot.. this is virtual looting of fictional c**p.
Don't tell me, tell the looters. obviously the real pros are long gone, what's left are the also-rans and wanna-bes. It's the financial equivalent of the clamoring crowd waiting with plastic pails to get free fuel and a trip to the underworld after the smugglers do a big pipeline tap in Lagos.
Except that gasoline is real...
Lucifer replies:
Today, 9:44:51 PM
“Except that gasoline is real...
Are you kidding me? Real wealth got taken out of this scam. Big honking bags of it. The best way to tell the difference between the real operators and the bagholders is, who has real wealth and who has Confederate dollars.
I think we have had more confederate dollars (notional) than real ones for some time.
No smoking section, please...
oops.. too late!
B_R
"It's the financial equivalent of the clamoring crowd waiting with plastic pails to get free fuel"
Not to pick a nit, but plastics tend to dissolve when in contact with fuel. So actually they get no fuel, and loose out on the bucket too. Kinda costly if you spent a months income on the plastic bucket.
Just sayin'
Nostrovia,
Nylon pails?
Just the beginning.
B.C. leads the way in rising unemployment benefits
Statistics Canada survey shows 21.7% more men on rolls
BY BRIAN MORTON, CANWEST NEWS SERVICEFEBRUARY 25, 2009
The number of Canadians receiving regular EI benefits rose by 79,100 between December 2007 and December 2008, a 16.6% increase, according to a Statistics Canada report released Tuesday. The number of men receiving benefits went up 21.7%, while for women the number increased by 8.6%.
British Columbia had the country's largest increase in Employment Insurance recipients in December, according to a Statistics Canada survey released Tuesday.
Worldwide market cap in December 2007 = $60 TRILLION.
Poof she gone.
Geither has no new ideas, and way to many ties to wall street. Obama put him in as treasury secretary and is now supporting these bad ideas with new four letter acronyms......Why is Obama doing this? I really thought he could camly think things through, but he's been rushing around on every issue and frankly in my opinion he is screwing them all up. I really had some hope for Obama too.
..
..
With all this government interference in the economy, nothing is certain anymore, and no one wants to invest with all this uncertainty. Really the government should get out, and rightly say that the constitution doesnt let them do all these things. Companies fail, but investors understand why.
..
..
..
Should I have any hope left for this Country? Obama promised hope, but now I think, with his first month or so in office, he took it all away.
"Why is Obama doing this?"
Come on, M., is it so mysterious? Why do you think Wall Street gave so generously to his campaign? Public mindedness?
With Obama, there is a chasm between the symbol and the deed. That is true in politics universally, but in the cult of personality the pit is deepest of all. It is filled with all the ugly things that never end up on the Shepard Fairey poster.
Elect public servants who explain specifically how they will serve your interests. Don't romanticize them. Ride them hard when they betray you.
You may still end up being robbed, but you won't wonder why it's happening.
Why is there never any discussion of making bank shareholders and bondholders take their losses, cramming bondholders down to equity? All of the the discussion in the media (main stream, and financial) is on the asset side of the balance sheet - bad securities. Who's on the liability side being protected by these giveaway plans?
This is a question best reserved for jas jain.
Obama is proving every day he is the rightful heir to lead Dumbf%$ckistan. AIG (and the LAST 30B) will eat more in cash than the western states need in a year to balance their budgets, and not cut services.
My kid sits in a class of 60 so you can piss cash down a hole with no bottom. I am so sorry you stupid retard, that you got stuck with this, but I had hopes you were smarter than a rock, dillweed. Your Treasury is as corrupt as the last.
Screw him, screw Bush, and any other piker that thinks he (Obama) is ANYTHING but Bush lite.
You deserve the storm America, hope you enjoy tornadoes.
"Screw him, screw Bush, and any other piker that thinks he (Obama) is ANYTHING but Bush lite."
I am beginning to share your frustration of a nation of the bankers and by the bankers.
Mark says: Who's on the liability side being protected by these giveaway plans?
Yeah, wipe out the shareholders and the bondholders. The thing is, it's not just Big Boss Hogg who owns these. You think the public is going to cheer when they see their pension plans eat this big ol' poopie? No solution is politically palatable.
Let us burn the FIRE economy.
"Let us burn the FIRE economy."
Prolly better than hang fire. That causes cancer. And severe beatings, stateside. And offers best left unmentioned.
They hang fire in Not-So-Great-Britain. They also do it with fags.
"Hey mate, got a fag, I need to hang fire."
Depending on which US city, and which city section, anything from hilarity to drawing and quartering can result.
Nostrovia,
While this
Don't believe me about hang fire. These guys have hung lots of fire...and not always tobacco.
YouTube - Rolling Stones - Hang Fire
Nostrovia,
Good one, Lucifer!
I don't know. With the top 1% owning around a third of the 'wealth' (other people's debt), Big Boss Hog sure owns a big chunk I bet. And somehow I bet they are the one's pulling the strings here, not the pension fund managers.
I just want to see media, or bloggers, to a SERIOUS examination of this subject. So far I have seen none.
Reality is starting to sink in, with respect to market valuations. Even with 1 T in promised money, broad indexes have declined >50% and show no sign of stalling now. I know of nobody who hasn't stopped 529 plan, 403b and 401k funding completely. We're entering the hard fear stage soon. Without the bad idea money, I wonder where the markets would be..., probably bottomed by now. As long as the artificial props are kept, we have further to fall.
Story on Yahoo's front page: When does the recession become a depression?
Why do they ask such questions after the fact?
if you want revenge on a banker, act soon. they are smart, and know when to ru
peacefully, of course.
I think they have managed to piss people in every country.. that is some achievement.
Crap, I thought the joke was going to be "act soon. They are an endangered species."
I'm thinking this is the leak to try to plug the hole tomorrow. Futures are up strongly right now (1%). We'll see if it holds or something else blows a hole in "March Madness."
I don't understand why the bailout from last month needs to be revamped already. Why?
When Obama took office I understood that as a younger politician who has never been all that much of an insider he probably doesn't have anywhere near the number of people he can trust to fill all of the positions a new president must fill. So it's not too much of a surprise that we've got who we've got right now. I figured that I'd give him until July to discover who he should keep around and replace those who shouldn't.
With the bailout being such a quick bust, I sincerely hope Obama is already looking for replacements.
PS - I know why. That was a hoocoodanode moment.
Relax... Ben Bernanke said that they were "not totally in the dark"
"Ben Bernanke said that they were "not totally in the dark"." "But what if you are wrong?"
Got a robo-call from Ron Paul. He is on the O' bashing train. Sure would like it better if he was working with the admin to get rid of Geitner.
Ron Paul has read too much Ann Ryand.. I have always felt it somewhat peculiar that an economic libertarian supports a ban on abortion.
Agree. Choice is choice is choice is choice.
C
CNBS on 2 hour bonus damage control lol.
Brokerage firm's latest best investing idea's weekly newsletter says it all:
http://paul.kedrosky.com/WindowsLiveWriter/SorryNoStockIdeasForYou_D8CC/idea_2.jpg
Well it is a canuck company anyway..
"Larry Kudlow May Challenge Dodd"
Uggh. Talk about a lose-lose. The only benefit would be the temporary absence of "mustard seeds" and "off the day's lows"
The Reps have a "Good" Candidate.. AKA not one step away from the looney bin..
And Dodd may just wipe the floor with this one, just play his air checks..
The "Legit" rep would give him a run, but Larry Kudlow?? Choose any one: He, Sarah, and Not Joe the Not Plumber... and Death isn't an option..
"Larry Kudlow May Challenge Dodd"
Dodd must be secretly funding this one.
The problem is not the toxic assets. It is hard to see how anyone could have a lower cost of funds than banks that can get reserves for near zero. I think it would be a better use of the money to buy up existing home inventory. $1 trillion would buy a lot of housing units. If you could hold them off the market for 2-5 years, we can slow the decline in home prices and maybe create a little inflation along the way.
OB has not been a disappointment to me at all. What did you think we were getting? when he has never finished or accomplished anything of merit? We have a Celebrity in Chief when we need real accomplished experience.
"Accomplished experience", was not a choice.
Caruso has the guns a blazin' like it's late night cinemax.
The bad bank assets are toast. For example, how many HELOCs and other seconds are ever going to get paid back?
Income is the answer. Let the banks provide a service and let the gov't massively overpay for it. The service should offer a benefit to the public -- anti-identity theft seminars, financial literacy education, etc -- but the key is to bill the government under a long-term, highly profitable contract.
The banks then use the anticipated profits to issue new common shares -- maybe a different class, like the old GM-E or GM-H, but as long as it can be used to satisfy the banks' common equity ratios, who cares?
Nobody knows if any of the bad bank assets are ever going to recover. Treasury is giving away taxpayer money no matter what; at least give us something in return.
WASHINGTON, March 2 (Reuters) - U.S. President Barack Obama has been vague about details of his healthcare reform efforts, but he provided a hint on Monday of one direction he could take -- community health centers.
As he announced the nominations of his two top health executives, Obama highlighted the allocation of $155 million to 126 community health centers as part of the $787 billion economic stimulus package.
"These health centers will expand access to care by helping people in need -- many with no health insurance -- obtain access to comprehensive primary and preventive health care services," Obama told a news conference.
"That helps relieve the burden on emergency rooms across the country, which have become primary care clinics for too many who lack coverage -- often at taxpayer expense."
The Health and Human Services Department said the money would create 5,500 new jobs and help provide health care to an estimated 750,000 low-income Americans.
a step in the right direction... for once.
Finally, the federal bureaucracy is gonna take control of health care. It's about time.
I don't understand why those that are uninsured are not on Medicaid.
As if all this news isn't bad enough, tonight I learned that you can easily enter the White House by scuba diving into the Potomac. The news just keep getting worse.
Is that why my son just qualified in scuba?
OT -- I heard of three cases today where the rate on fixed rate CCs is being raised to ~30% without provocation (ie. no late payments, good credit scores, etc...) One bank was Citi...I'm not sure of the other two...
BoA, WFC JPMC?
I am thisfuckingclose to never sending C another payment again.
Yikes...
Shipments of personal computers are expected to post their worst decline in almost a decade this year, as 2009 shapes up to be the worst year in the PC’s history, research firm Gartner said in a March 2 report.
PC sales will plummet 11.9 percent, to 257 million units in 2009. The largest previous decline was 3.2 percent in 2001.
In true form the scamsters are at it again here in Florida. I got a call a couple hours ago from some autorecording telling me I was qualified for Obama's new loan modificatiions. I indicated I was interested and they had a live person call me. As suspected they are peddling loan mods you could do yourself by approaching your own lender. For just a 600 dollar upfront "processing" fee they'll negotiate with your lender in your behalf. They also get one percent of loan value on the backend...I'm sure they are having a field day here in Florida...I'm learning to really despise human beings...
Florida has quite a history for such 'industries'.
I see the same thing in web ads. Until a year or so ago, it was the stupid animated .gifs of people boogeying down to the latest "new low interest rates." Now that's morphed into the "Obama's giving you free money" b.s.
Obama's handing out free money all right, but not to you or me.
Love your avatar.
C
Banana republic.
$1 trillion would buy a lot of housing units. If you could hold them off the market for 2-5 years, we can slow the decline in home prices and maybe create a little inflation along the way.
Lunacy. House prices will decline to at least the historic relation between house price and income. With income also dropping, they've still got a way to go.
Now that the funny money loans are gone, nothing else can happen to house prices, except that the overshoot.
as of January there are 19 million vacant housing units out of the total stock of 130 million
for $1 trillion, you could afford to pay $52,631 per housing unit.
if you exclude the seasonally vacant homes, you could afford to pay $71,429 per housing unit.
it's a very big adjustment, not within government's abilities to stop without smashing the glass on the banana republic butto
Futures are up (S&P) about 12 points above fair value for the close. I thought of 70s disco, "Let Me Take You Higher."
"As if all this news isn't bad enough, tonight I learned that you can easily enter the White House by scuba diving into the Potomac. The news just keep getting worse."
Perhaps you mean one can easily LEAVE the White House...
I'm confused about what 700 billion bailout is being modified. Are they talking about TARP 1?
Working professionals head to food bank - CNN.com
Working professionals head to food bank
"We have people in marketing and software. We have a lot of Realtors," director says
Surprised?
Not at all.
When do these Americans start wanting the "jobs American's don't want"?
Realtors are "working professionals"?
I challenge both prongs of that claim.
KR
"I'm confused about what 700 billion bailout is being modified. Are they talking about TARP 1?"
*** TARP 3D ***
LOL TARP 3D!
"These health centers will expand access to care by helping people in need -- many with no health insurance -- obtain access to comprehensive primary and preventive health care services," Obama told a news conference.
Just STOP already! Knock it off!! I want guaranteed health care for everyone, not some half-assed clinic access. Have you ever been to a poor people's clinic??
Seven Trees Blog
The entire article is so filled with ambiguities and unsubstantiated references that it is hard to accept it as anything as another trial balloon. Nothing is concrete.
"the Obama administration...is considering...according to people..."
"the Obama team announced its intention.."
"No decision has been made on the final structure..."
"...possibly by offering non-recourse loans..."
"Many details remain unclear..."
"Obama admistration also are mulling whether to expand the TALF..."
...the idea might not move forward."
o capitulation yet.
There were 300 people that worked in the credit default swap unit at AIG. The bailout to AIG bigger than the Marshall Plan inflation adjusted. Dow Dips Like It's 1997 - ABC News
So where were those weapons of mass destruction? Apparently in a relatively small office somewhere in where, England?
Is it time for a new misery index ?
FT Alphaville » Blog Archive » Quote du jour - Stephen Green
Lex on HSBC.
This may be the UK’s largest rights issue but has HSBC actually done enough? Two numbers leap out. First, the enormous difference between the carrying value and fair value of receivables at Household, the troubled US subprime lender that HSBC has shoved into run-off. This stands at $34.3bn. The second number relates to unrealised losses on available-for-sale debt securities. This stands at $21.4bn, a near ninefold increase on the previous year. Taken together, these potential future fair value adjustments of about $56bn dwarf the $17.7bn of new equity capital that HSBC is now raising from its shareholders.
yogi, can you turn down the volume on that ka-ching noise?
One of these days the bad bank idea will be implemented. These leaks resemble a wolf dancing around its pray. Two steps front, one step back.
"Just STOP already! Knock it off!! I want guaranteed health care for everyone, not some half-assed clinic access. Have you ever been to a poor people's clinic?? "
No.
I call physicians and tell them I'm uninsured and will pay cash. You would be surprised how willing they are to negotiate a fair price.
Just hope they don't write you a prescription for anything.
But they are entitled, Right? we just went trough houses they could not afford, cars they could not afford, junk of all kinds they could not afford. Of course they expect free health care. Screw working hard like their forefathers!
AIG's website regarding "Corporate Responsibility":
Since our founding nearly a century ago, the AIG Companies (Collectively "AIG") have focused on being a leader in corporate social responsibility. As a global financial services organization, we have committed our resources to developing products and services that address the needs of our clients as well as promote a corporate culture that values integrity, diversity, innovation and excellence.
AIG recognizes that its investments in support of our customers, employees and the communities in which we operate are critical to our success. AIG’s ongoing efforts to be an outstanding corporate citizen and promote responsible and sustainable business practices are essential to our long-term business objective of creating value for our shareholders and serving the interests of our clients.
AIG American International Group, Inc. | Corporate Information | Governance Responsibility Home
New Thread: House "Deal of the Week"
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I call physicians and tell them I'm uninsured and will pay cash. You would be surprised how willing they are to negotiate a fair price.
I'm in the insurance merry-go-round, and can't pay cash anyway. I think it's BS that there are so many pricing tiers for health care.
Why?
"Just hope they don't write you a prescription for anything."
True.
But if you look at over all costs of paying health insurance premiums vs. actual use scenarios its probably cheaper and you can get prescriptions online at a massive discount if you do some research.
And by the time they arrive, you'll be healthy again, or dead. ... Mostly, I just find that my family's need for health care is inversely proportional to the amount of coverage we have. When we had great plans, everyone was healthy. As the plans degraded, so did our health. Sigh.
A few trillion in credit default swaps written by AIG with no backing collateral. A Meek Ending For Mighty Unit That Gutted AIG
If the $300 billion I heard today is what is left then a bunch of these swaps have been eliminated.
Is there a new thread or is this new JS-kit that slow?
"I think it's BS that there are so many pricing tiers for health care."
It's a rip off ponzi fraud like evrything else these days.
HMO = Ponzi
MediWHATEVER = Ponzi
When it comes down to nuts and bolts, doctors have bills to pay and are essentially contractors.
The few I've dealt with hate the high insurance rates and waiting months to "maybe" be paid by uncle sugar.
test
can anyone explain to me how this is any different than the announcement Geithner already made last month? You know the one where the market immediately tanked...
So the Californians paid outrageous sums for a POS ranchburger, destroying their future. Now they pay less for a POS trashed ranchburger. Insane.
"Please stop whining about non-recourse loans. There are investors willing to buy these assets, provided they can get financing for a"
Why don't you go pick an "investor", offer them a non-recourse loan out of YOUR pocket and let me know how it goes.
Let me know how it goes.
Forgive me if the thought has already been floated here and now but....
We've already tried saving the banks and we've seen the effect. Why not let one of them actually completely and totally FAIL. Could it possibly end up costing the US taxpayer any MORE money than the process already has? At what point does "too big to fail" convert into "too big to SAVE"?
[I have always felt it somewhat peculiar that an economic libertarian supports a ban on abortion.]
....not an economic libertarian that is also an obstetrician! You know Hippocratic oath: "......and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion."
\t
......nothing worse than a hypocritical physician - well, maybe President is up there....
I don't agree; it's the best solution under the circumstances.
That the FDIC would run Citibank, which has 300,000 employees worldwide, and all varieties of esoteric products, is a worse idea.
NOT because it would mean nationalization; the ideological argument is wrong. Rather, because FDIC doesn't have the manpower to run Citi; because the FDIC doesn't have the manpower to further run the many banks which might fail in Citi's wake, as investors then shun preferred shares; because a cascade of bank failures and shareholder wipeouts might wipeout our insurance companies; and finally, because the heart of the credit crunch lies in the secondary securitization markets as much as in the banks. Like it or not, securitization is part of the system which supports the mountain of debt; the banks cannot handle it alone.
On this one, I think you and Profs Krugman and Roubini and Stieglitz are talking from the ivory tower.
You haven't thought through the implications of nationalization for the debt holders and you haven't explained just how the FDIC can manage Citi's gigantic operation...while also handling the rest of the failures to come.
Do you realize how big Citi is and all the things it does? This is no IndyMac.
You haven't thought through the implications of nationalization for the debt holders and you haven't explained just how the FDIC can manage Citi's gigantic operation...while also handling the rest of the failures to come.
Just like any other FDIC takeover. Fire the senior management - board, exec, directors, GMs, hire new people for these posts and let them run it using the existing employees and infrastructure.
Just raffle the toxic holdings off like lottery tickets.
That gets you double their market value, if lottery ticket players are any guide.
Furthermore it lets the poor in on the action.
Fu**ers! The one thing that is continually left out of all plans is REVENGE. The bailouts should wipe out the shareholders and require huge haircuts of bad investment decisions. AIG should have been put into receivership today with all the chunky good assets put into trusts. Instead, the bankers are bailed out yet again. To get bailout money, or upon failure, banks should be required to cough up all securitized assets to an independent agency/corporation run by the government that untangles them and can resell them as transparent securities. That gov't agency takes a fat cut (50%+) and then returns the rest to the entity from which it came.
Warren Buffet was behind this plan as well. Anyone care to discuss the positives of this plan?
The Bankers' Hymn
What a friend we have in 'bama,
all our sins and griefs to bear!
What a privilege to carry
everything to Him in prayer!
O what peace we often forfeit,
O what needless pain we bear,
all because we do not carry
everything to Him in prayer.
Daniel Kwiat says:
Today, 12:11:16 AM
Do you realize how big Citi is and all the things it does? This is no IndyMac.
Seems to me there are two choices, shoot the dog or name it king. I'm not a big fan of King Citi, so I guess it has to die.
Let me be explicit. Your strategy is to Martengale on failure because you're too terrified of the consequences to confront the realities of the situation. The banks are insolvent, this isn't a transitional liquidity issue. Policy needs to come to grips with that and move toward finding a solution.
If it seems like there is no clean solution and the result will kill thousands or millions through economic dislocation, maybe this is a suitable time to consider the general atmosphere of hortatory remarks on the importance of taking public policy planning seriously. For example, not being a total captive of the people you regulate and allowing them to merge ceaselessly for a decade with no serious planning how to manage a systemic crisis. Looks like these bad choices just killed or impoverished a lot of people in extreme slo-mo. Way to go.
Secondly, let's just be honest, states make shitty choices all the time. Look at war -- domestic infrastructure blasted, population terrorized, coffers emptied, possibility of occupation and prostration, thousands or tens or hundreds of thousands killed. I am sorry a bank failure makes you go wee. Imagine a crop failure! The obligations required to prop it up represent a significant burden on multiple future generations of this nation. Maye you do not comprehend the reality of that.
It's my strongly considered strategic recommendation we bite the bullet and BK them now. I think it's better as a nation if we endure some chaos and some people die rather than all of us beng poor forever to save some bankers' pride and joy from the auction gavel.
Well, actually, I advocated it some time ago. Now it will be terrible when we do it and BK all the pension funds holding their paper, because we are so broke from wasted efforts. However, it is better than cracking the Treasuries market, which is exactly what you are advocating, because there is not enough money in the real world to fund these liabilities.
That is reality and you can face it or you can wait for it to catch up with you. What's more important, Citi or the Treasuries market as an entity.
Heidi men call me when their homes I visit,
A far seeing Volva, wise in talismans.
Caster of spells, cunning in magic.
To wicked women welcome always.
Many of the "distressed assets" are now-abandoned homes, which are filled with toxic mold. They will need to be gutted down to the studs and rebuilt at tremendous cost, or torn down. If they try to downplay the danger, and simply paint the mold over, people, especially children and those over 50, who try to live in those homes will get very sick.
I think this is a huge sleeper issue.