Your bank seized in 30 minutes or less or your money back.

Oh yeah? I bank with Citi. What now? Are you socialist enough to seize my bank? Wink

But seriously, we nationalized over a dozen banks this year; that's an essential part of the banking system. Nationalize Citi, however, and suddenly we're all socialists.

Until these boneheads throwing around the term "socialist" opt out of the FDIC coverage, they're idiots or hypocrites. Possibly, both.

Cthulhu,
Bair in the interview said she wasn't competent enough to oversee large banks and so they might outlaw them in the future. This is supported by her need to raise FDIC premiums in the midst of increasing loan defaults; if she had been competent, she would have done this in advance or intervened with the reckless ones so as not to punish the prudent banks. It is quite sad, no one has the heart to tell her the chance has come and gone.

Granted I realize the extraordinary nature of defaults right now, it's just that she took zero action leading up to it. Someone who did their job might have raised the issue that defaults had dropped to abnormally low levels during the bubble and should not be used in VaR or otherwise expected to continue

Yeah; I watched the interview; I think Bair's argument about why they can't seize Citi was potentially viable. She cited not only size, but the diversity of services. Not sure I buy her argument, but on the scale of relative persuasiveness, it was more compelling than slinging around "socialism" like it is some kind of talisman.

Frankly, I think Bair let herself be led down a path there. There are a lot of alternatives to barring size. If larger banks pose a disproportionately larger (systemic) risk, you can index their FDIC premiums according to the risk without capping size.

But, regardless, even though I don't think I agree with her, at least she can form a competent argument, which is more than most of the nationalization opponents.

Indeed, I get the feeling after watching this video that Bair & Co. aren't organized enough to take over a large bank such as Citigroup. That could be the sole reason why that hasn't happened yet. If none of the large banks can be taken over by the FDIC, I foresee two possible outcomes: 1) the government will continue to bail out large banks until we as a country go broke; or 2) the large banks fail. I think Bair was correct in her assessment that banks shouldn't be so large that they pose a systemic risk. I'll take the second outcome, for as messy as it would be, it seems to be the cleanest option.

P.S. I still hate Illinois Nazis.

That honda commerical is pretty good.

.........................

I actually just informed my buddies that I'm going to work for the FDIC and close down banks. Wish me luck with the interview... Smile

"Wish me luck with the interview..."

Good luck! It sure seems fitting to have a CR'er a killin' banks.

I wonder if the hiring process will be similar to the one Bush had when applying for a job in the green zone.

"Who did you vote for for president in the last 3 elections?"

Nades:

Good luck, Sheila will need all the help she can get.

--
All banks would be nationalized and FDIC would be the only bank taking deposits and making loans, all guaranteed by the USG. It will never lose money. This is the American Ideal that we need to get to.

Jas

favorite quote "insurance in the oxygen of the free enterprise system"

It is? Give me a f'n break/

Bankruptcy is the oxygen of the free market system. No joke.

Stress testing this thing

All your bank are belong to U(nited)S(tates).

I'm glad I watched SNL re runs instead of this.

Cliff's Notes:

You'll get your money back, only after it is all said and done....your life savings will barely cover a month's expenses thanks to all of the printing we will have to do to bailout Citi, JPM, Wells, Regions, AIG, BAC, Suntrust, State Street, etc. etc. etc. etc. ad infinitum.

"For the next five years we project that we will lose $65 billion dollars on bank closings."

Wink

wink, wink, nod, nod.

The LIES CONTINUE.

--
I call it well-intentioned propaganda for the good of the country. We have the best people running our economy and I don't like to second guess them.

"For the next five years we project that we will lose $65 billion dollars on bank closings."

I liked how he asked 'how many banks will fail this year?' and she dodged the question 100%

I liked how he asked 'how many banks will fail this year?' and she dodged the question 100%

Of course she dodged it - she is a weatherman who can make her own weather.

["For the next five years we project that we will lose $65 billion dollars on bank closings." ]

That was filmed before the $500Billion request. They have a lot of work to do. Nades will be working a lot of OT, rubbing elbows with Pandit and Lewis.

--
Governments exist to save people from the consequences of freedom! Freedom means uncertainty and uncertainty breeds fear and low productivity. More govt controls are meant to engender greater security and safety. Without FDIC and the govt the Crooks would have taken our money and run. Now, the Crooks can still run away with our money but out govt will make us whole. Down with freedom. Freedom breeds Crooks and govt saves us from Crooks and will put a stop. Do we want more Crooks?

Jas

Then Somalia is the world's freest state? Guess so; those must be free-market entrepreneurs in the boats there.

--
Hey, we still get the silver medal. That is good enough.

Right.

How many people would attempt to accumulate wealth if there were no police/army/government to protect it? History gives the answer.

The libertarians/republicans cannot see the forest which is protecting their own trees.

All in all, it seemed pretty painless. People are still working, no tax money used, no customers lost money. Normally, the media hates bank stories like this. Surprised it made it on TV!

A fluff job to build confidence in the banking system. 60 Minutes got a
story and the FDIC got to spin.

DE,
60 minutes does do these purely informational stories without a lot of shock value. It's almost as if they think people value information instead of entertainment.... Weird...

--
From the last thread...

"It says that this bear has now gone lower than the 1929 bear in the same time period. Since the 1929 bear went on to a 89% drop, this bear might go beyond that. How would you like a 90-95% drop? Cheers, everyone."

Hal,

That still wouldn't necessarily mean that we would have a Severe Recession. The Scam Market can do whatever it wants but our govt will make sure that the economy does not enter Severe Recession. Because once we enter a Severe Recession there is no telling where we would end up. We must, and we will with Bernanke in charge, stop it with all the tools in our policymakers' toolkit. We have the best govt we have ever had manned by the best people according to Felix Rohatyn.

Cheers,

Jas

Jas, are you taking Prozac now?

As governments begin to fail they start seizing everything. Property rights, personal freedoms, etc. All are fair game.

History repeats and repeats and repeats...

Property rights, personal freedoms, etc. All are fair game.

Property rights, personal freedoms, etc. All are NEVER fair game. Unfortunately it usually takes a world war to remind governments of that inviolable fact.

--
"Property rights, personal freedoms, etc." are old ideas under the old guard. Now, we have an enlightened elite that knows what is good for the country. Don't forget: We are all in it together. And property rights don't take precedence over the welfare of all. You need to grow up and not be stuckk with juvenile concepts of yester years.

Jas

Um.....you are joking, right?

--
Gosh, can't a guy get away with few jokes once in a long while? At least I wasn't attacked!

Jas Laughing out loud

Property rights don't mean much where the federal government can tap your phone, check up on what you get from the library and even render you because the president says so. Or at least John Yoo says so.

Thank You, Thank You, Thank You, Rob Dawg.

$65b over the next 5 YEARS? There are no words to describe the cluelessness of Ms. Bair. Try WEEKS Shelia unless you are adopting level 3 accounting.

The government has declared war on American business. Does anybody freaking care? Business tax increases, proposed increase on trading transactions, the SEC increases (enormously) transaction fees, more taxes on the energy industry, etc etc etc. The list is endless now. The governor of NY wants to increase taxes on everything he can find to tax. I'm shutting down my business, as I cannot keep going under this weight. Isn't it odd that the first black president attempts to enslave a nation. And, no, I'm not racist. Just sick and tired of working my ass off, so the goverment can take all of my rewards. Done.

It was the country's last white president who enslaved the nation, anon.

This isn't a partisan issue, get it?! This is a constitutional issue. You want to talk about administrations who screwed up, we'd have to go very far back in time. I hated Bush, Clinton, Bush and Obama. Good enough for you this time??!!

--
"The government has declared war on American business."

American business is the problem and the govt is the only solution we got. You got better ideas to control the Crooks? I am all ears.

Just American business-who is this? GTF out of here...this is corporate shitbag

“I'm glad I watched SNL re runs instead of this.

Did you see the Michael Steele thing this weekend. They had some good stuff for a change. Maybe depressions make people funny:

Hulu - Saturday Night Live: Update: Michael Steele
Hulu - Saturday Night Live: Hawaiian Hotel

If these things are a surprise to the bank,
how does the FDIC authenticate itself to the bank?
Do they have badges? Are there US Marshalls with them?

I'm more interested in figuring out how the FDIC weighs if a bank should be taken over. It's not like that bank was "We are failing, save us". More like the FDIC just came in and said, no more bank for you. you are now FDIC employees.

$65b? The tapeworm will have that as a first mouthfull. There's a fullblown banquet being prepared.

C

Note: Sheila said that the FDIC "plans to lose" $65 billion. That means that they plan to take over far more total account value than that, since they typically "lose" a smallish percentage of the bank's deposits if they can find a buyer to dump the accounts on.

So I take this to mean that the FDIC plans to take over about $650 billion worth of deposits in the next five years. That number is still too low, but...

I dunno, I thought this was a good story with some insight on how they do this take-over. The interplay between the guy at the door and the guy with the suitcase was actually pretty interesting.

Sadly, it looks like the FDIC has gotten pretty good at this...

That makes me feel all warm inside.

"how does the FDIC authenticate itself to the bank?
Do they have badges?"

I see where you are going with this, reptillian.

Try this site; they probably won't to send you something that says FDIC, but it is worth a shot:

Custom Name Badges and Name Tags - Recognition Specialties Inc.

If these things are a surprise to the bank,
how does the FDIC authenticate itself to the bank?

Ah Hah! At last it makes sense. FFDIC stands for "Fake FDIC." Our very own FFDIC is planning the heist of the century. He and his band of merry riskers will take over an unsuspecting medium sized bank on a Friday and by Monday will be sipping Mai Tais on their own island nation. [Sign me up FFDIC]

Man I hate typos.

Also, for any law enforcement lurkers, my little joke was in no way an encouragement to impersonate Federal authorities.

The only thing FDR forgot to mandate was the creation of Kolkhozes.(collective farms)

The government has declared war on American business.

Not surprised in the least. The masses voted for it. Who's mad about it. Me! but the only way now is to let it all collapse so the not so smart will learn business makes jobs, not Government. The taxation and business road block OB has set up will send more jobs and business as a whole out of the US to a more business friendly country that will give incentives to relocate there. OB is screaming no tax cuts to business who send jobs over seas but he is greasing the wheel for business to leave. This guy is a gem.

And they'll go to what country? Oh, that's right, it's deleveraged. :-E

"we project we will lose up to $65 billion in the next five years"

In otherwords, "we plan to deplete the current FDIC fund balance, all additional bank contributions and the $500 billion taxpayer loan, and then come back to the taxpayer for only 65 billion more"

This isn't a partisan issue, get it?! This is a constitutional issue. You want to talk about administrations who screwed up, we'd have to go very far back in time. I hated Bush, Clinton, Bush and Obama. Good enough for you this time??!!

Well at least we have bipartisanship when it comes to the attack on the constitution and every principle this country was founded on.

Citi's next!

Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.

Authentication?

I thing the magic phrase is "we're from the government and we're here to help..."

C

I saw a sheriff and a police car or two in the occasional shot. Cool

American business is the problem and the govt is the only solution we got. You got better ideas to control the Crooks? I am all ears.

Of course American business knows this, and will take appropriate actions to control the government.

I think this is why it so often things like catastrophes and revolution seem to be the source of legitimate change.

I see no difference between the businessmen and the politicians.

Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.

It's always the wrong week to start sniffing glue. In other news, I saw a sign that said "Free beer tomorrow."

Once again, Max kills the thread. I'll shut up now...

Hail, Seizer!

In my estimation, more misery has been created by reformers than by any other force in human history. Show me someone who says, "Something must be done!" and I will show you a head full of vicious intentions that have no other outlet. What we must strive for always! is to find the natural flow and go with it.
-The Reverend Mother Taraza,
Conversational Record,
BG File GSXXMAT9

The thief in the night works as quietly as he can; the reformer has to stand up on a stump and make speeches. So the thief can slip a billion out of the Treasury with one well-crafted tweak of the marginal tax rates, and then the reformer has to scream and shout to get a tenth of that money back.

The previous Administration used the term "reform" quite a bit, but their real favorite was "fairness". For instance, it's just not fair for billionaires to pay estate taxes after having had to work so hard to shield their money from the capital gains tax, the income tax on dividends, etc.

“--
"Property rights, personal freedoms, etc." are old ideas under the old guard. Now, we have an enlightened elite that knows what is good for the country. Don't forget: We are all in it together. And property rights don't take precedence over the welfare of all. You need to grow up and not be stuckk with juvenile concepts of yester years.

Jas

Well, don't tell that to the Chinese, right?

The may not want to go back to where they were in the 1960s.

That said they may do just that in the name of "the common good".

I can't believe I am saying this, but I actually felt for the owner of the bank. I am sure he will do fine, etc in life, albeit a little poorer which is just, but you have to think the hypocrisy of a system that wipes him out because he is too small and allows the big banks to pay up on performance bonuses and preserves stock holder value is wrong, blatantly wrong. He should be treated equally, not as worse than the dopes on wall street.

Arthur Lafer: "Things have gotten really low. In 5, 10 15 years things will be better than they are now." CNBC tri-box comment 03/09/09

--
“China Is Expected to Report Its First Bout of Deflation… and So Is the Whole World”

This was just reported on Bloomberg broadcast from East Asia (Hong Kong, I believe). This according to the Chief Economist for the First Industrial Bank, the best in China and likely the best in the business. Now, we know why China is eating Americans’ lunch. China has relatively more honest economists and technocrats. BTW, the economists and statisticians that work for the BLS, part of the USG, are far more honest and professional than those that work in the private sector, staffed by propagandists, and even the universities.

Jas

Very interesting. I learned a great deal just from seeing how it all works.

Hoopajoops LTD says:
favorite quote "insurance in the oxygen of the free enterprise system"
It is? Give me a f'n break/
Bankruptcy is the oxygen of the free market system. No joke.

Bankruptcy and repudiation are the springboards from which much of our civilization vaults and turns its somersets, but the savage stands on the unelastic plank of famine.
Walden & on the Duty of Civil Disobedience by Thoreau, Henry David

The government has declared war on American business.

At last a war we can win!!!

"The FDIC wanted you to see what happens if your bank fails....."
I for one feel sooooooo much better!

Why Can't they do that with C, WFC, USB, BAC, JPM, and all the insolvent Biggies?

Take down the regulated banking part, and what's left of the company, Oh Well..

It would be interesting to try once, maybe.. Maybe not..

But I did like the piece.. A little fluff, but OK..

IS MB a good bank though?

too many people (needed) to do it all at once.

ades - I guess we might call you the bank euthe-nades-er...

C

Anon @ 4:35 asked a question: Dollar strong, stock market failing, treasuries not doing as well, gold weak and oil rising? What to make of it?

I've thought about this for about two hours...

Yep, OPEC is sufficiently cutting supply to outstrip the demand destruction (plus oil is still a hard asset). Gold is dropping due to selling to meet margin calls on stock market portfolios (plus meet redemptions) and the dollar still is doing well versus other currencies. But I think that the treasury slowness is indicative of souring on US vis a vis others and is precursor to future problems with dollar. This will lead to a recurring rise in gold as offset to market and dollar drop. Only question is if OPEC will be able to hold together on the supply tightening (I don't bet on it...).

mp: Still don't know that I see Mad Max coming out of the AIG mess.

The first time I held $2 million in cash which I was responsible for, I joked out loud about flying to Mexico and opening a surf shack.

I said it out loud because I never intended to follow through. Imagine the temptation when you process billions a week with no strict checks on all of it

"Imagine the temptation when you process billions a week with no strict checks on all of it"

You mean the Coalition Provisional Authority?

"Hail, Seizer!"

As puns go, not bad.

Didn't she say that they won't need taxpayer money? Didn't they just ask for a 500B loan from the Treasury?

Maybe everyone is misunderstanding Bair. She could easily spend $65bn on lawyers, accountants, airfaire, pizza, hotels, printing, computers, phone bills, etc in processing bank closings over the next 5 years

I watched this last night on 60Minutes and it struck me that there was a lot of room here for potential misuse of power. Many of these seizures are being sold off to the highest bidders, so one can envision a plan being hatched to raid banks for consolidation purposes. Who decides who gets seized? What kind of due dilligence is being done on the bank offering the highest bid in the auction? It's ripe for corruption, and we all know, as our latest quandary has revealed, that ripe quickly means rotten.

Well, they are bank examiners-and the Bushies are no longer in charge. So no sex parties with clients a la Department of Interior....

-What's wrong, forget to short your own soul?

If you are searching for a silver lining, it is dirt-cheap energy prices while we extend this socialist project called America, already happening among the poor, to the richest of Americans, too!

After all, isn't it these rich fraudster's trucks that are pounding our roads and bridges to ash, their planes polluting our air, while they lobby us to cut their taxes?

Give me a break! Forget, CDO's, CDS's, "payoffs to Goldmen Sachs," and the rest of your whiny complaints. You have me to worry about, now! The intelligent American with nothing to lose, Obama's base! Not weak, but the ones who do not push paper,..the strong ones who can handle anything!

The ones that you screwed and then strangled in that empty hallway before you got your promotion. The brother, protecting mom, that you betrayed, and your dad beat hard that night, while you coward in your room. Well, we are reconstructed and we are back!

You thought that you could paddle up that bloody creek of other-peoples' skulls and bones right up to your own 100ft yacht, too. But you were wrong! That is your only "mal-investment." You whole life is a lie. Your only accounting error, now, is that you forgot to short your own soul!

Now, take your bowl and get in line.

brushes9 - well spoken. We need strong voices like yours to counter the reactionary drivel being spewed by self-interested obstructionists, as if from a water cannon.

"EvilHenryPaulson says:
Today, 7:55:23 PM
“The first time I held $2 million in cash which I was responsible for, I joked out loud about flying to Mexico and opening a surf shack.

I said it out loud because I never intended to follow through. Imagine the temptation when you process billions a week with no strict checks on all of it"

And which planet would you hide on? But then I thought: oh wait. And then I thought: shut up.

For $65B, I hope Sheila's smart enough to get something better than pizza.

What's better than pizza?

Your savings are safe.

but we cannot let you see them

I will say this about her. She's as cool as a cucumber. Unflappable. She gives the impression that whilst it may be bad, it's nothing that can't be managed. Either she's delusionally clueless, or she's a great bluffer.

Either she's delusionally clueless, or she's a great bluffer.

How many guesses do we get? Personally I think she just got ultra kind treatment from 60 Minutes.

"The government has declared war on American business"

They declared war on citizens long ago.
Why do business guys believe they have special exemption?

scary unemployment chart

Very nice chart, thanks.

I starting to wonder more and more about the high-tech "low touch" economy. This WSJ article talks about why current manufacturing jobs are, because of extensive technology use, taking less of a hit than in earlier years. Dryfly has talked about this also many times.

However, the "high touch" economy has seen the job market expand significantly in the "customer-facing" areas. I believe that it is these highly discretionary jobs that will be hit by far the hardest. The "service economy" is littered with overhead.

Video would have been better with a pizza delivery scene.
Wonder if FDIC tips the delivery people.

Your savings are safe.

Visiting hours will be from 12:30-12:45 every third Thursday starting in 2029. Conjugal contact will be prohibited.

Personally I think she just got ultra kind treatment from 60 Minutes.

Yeah, it was a softball interview. The DNA Evidence segment was much more interesting and informative......and Leslie Stahl's a hottie.

If that rag tag flea-ridden group of ignorant, overweight nincumpoops are guys with white hats I think we'd better all stick our heads up into our large intestines and ask for advice.

"Now, take your bowl and get in line."

'Seven wealthy cities contend for Homer dead, Through which the living Homer begged for bread' (Maeonides?)

Visiting hours will be from 12:30-12:45 every third Thursday starting in 2029. Conjugal contact will be prohibited.

He could have shown them one of the microdots on the computer's circuit board and said "there you are, sir, safe and sound."

“In my estimation, more misery has been created by reformers than by any other force in human history. Show me someone who says, "Something must be done!"

I think people look at the social reforms accomplished by the left and use that to support any kind of activism.

While personally I think that social activism has been quite successful, I think their economic activism has been a catastrophe.

I think the reason for this is quite simple:

We know a lot about things like finance. You borrow and spend too much and you die. It's like electricity - a conservative attitude is warranted simply because we know a lot about it's dangers and how to mitigate them (along with what exacerbates them).

I would argue anybody who has a brain has a "conservative" attitude toward electricity. Because of changes in the economy post Industrial Revolution that's allowed us to have more liberal attitudes toward social issues with positive results - these are changes that are in response to legitimate environmental changes.

I don't think this applies to finance and economics.

Again, you borrow and spend too much and you die. Just like when you step on a downed power line.

The modern economy hasn't changed that.

"Visiting hours will be from 12:30-12:45 every third Thursday starting in 2029. "

That's when your phone in Moscow was supposed to be connected, after you confirmed it in 1985.

Well, are they coming to connect it in the morning or the afternoon?

What do you care, it's in 2029.

I care because the plumber is supposed to be there in the morning.

Sheila must have agreed to the segment on condition that she got editorial control. Most people know better than to talk to 60 minutes without it.

Re 60 Minutes interviews - I was interviewed four times for one of their international medicine stories. The key is to be quite aware of your phrasing to know which things they will pick up and broadcast. I could have had greater air time had I agreed with their phrasing, but I refused.

It is interesting and a bit sad the FDIC put Cheryl Bates out front and center for 60 Minutes. Bates would crawl naked down any Main Street in the USA to get ahead at FDIC and she has done well without a college degree. She became employed as a lowly FDIC investigations tech making about 20k in Midland, TX about 1985-1986. Bates fought her way up with her 'cheery' personality, laughs & giggles approvingly at anything and everything FDIC managers say good or bad. She is a true cheerleader and has gone far probably making $150k or more now. Pity.

In case you missed it:
If these things are a surprise to the bank,
how does the FDIC authenticate itself to the bank?

Ah Hah! At last it makes sense. FFDIC stands for "Fake FDIC." Our very own FFDIC is planning the heist of the century. He and his band of merry riskers will take over an unsuspecting medium sized bank on a Friday and by Monday will be sipping Mai Tais on their own island nation. [Sign me up FFDIC]

brushes:

Sorry you believed that a liberal arts degree was enough to put bread on the table. That's a lie nobody can afford anymore.

PS You meant "cowered."

interesting for MB financal, has any cr readers known of any NEW fdic bank charters being created in their area. I know of one in my area that was chartered last fall, 75 mill deposits and as of right now basic web app. with a bare bones single outlet. I know some of the founders and they are just waiting for these type of situations to develop locally so to expand on the cheap.

There is no need for open season to be declared. Poaching money from the treasury is being done at will without any supervision.

no need for open season to be declared. Poaching money from the treasury is being done at will

Two pipelines are better than one.
Twice the cash flow, twice the fun.

FDIC to Bank : You've been pre-removed!

debtinator, you are correct, officers know their bank is on the auction block prior to seizure

This was not entirely accurate. 60 Minutes implied that nobody at the bank knew what was coming. If a C&D was issued, that ALONE is an indication that not only is something wrong at the bank, but at the very least, management knew about it. More scare-mongering from 60 minutes.

the reason why I mentioned Bair singling out "large banks" as the problem is that large banks are not the problem, consolidation is good for the health of the US banking system where out of 8300 banks over 3000 are in trouble today (I have looked for but could not find again a report that was compiled in part from FDIC and part private stats)

The problem is the diverse complicated products under one bank. Separate insurance, brokerage, loans, etc. If they are not the same process, put them each into their own pool where they have adequate lifeguards monitoring.

Same logic applies to AIG. 50 different regulators in the US cannot each monitor the divisions, especially when for the first time in a while the subsidiaries need to reverse the cash flow to get top-ups from the holding company. It's not like all those markets are separate, insurance premiums went up dramatically across the board post 2005 Katrina to cover their unexpected losses on a small portion of their policies. Even today the global reinsurers are Berkshire (who in turn now supports Swiss Re directly), and AIG. So big whoop, admit it is one market and give up your 5 sq ft of territory to parade around

EvilHenryP. Sir, you are describing an institution that could not exist if The Glass-Stegall Act was still in effect. And so it goes

Mish does not understand.
Debt is the lifeblood of the economy,
because debt is our number one product and export.

don't cry for me ... City Group. O:-)

once general sentiment and economic indicators improve, the city prospects will be flushed into toilet. what management did not realize is that by taking all of the government loans, they have created huge political baggage ; some of those banks will be taken over, break down and sold off. TG and Co' ain't as dumb as they look. Smile

My S and L got taken over by FSLIC in 1990.

It was a small operation and very familiar with it's customers. Didn't even have an ATM...

Wife and I were leaving town on Friday afternoon for weekend away and got held up. I called them to ask if they could stay open for a few minutes while we got there and the manager sounded utterly shell-shocked. She said that we would have to get their NOW.

I got there within 15 minutes - left without my wife - and the doors were locked with an FSLIC notice in the window. I could see the manager sitting at her desk with her head cradled within her arms...

If the execs knew it, the bastards never told the troops.

Elizabeth Warren, Harvard law(credit and banking), ripping paulson on NPR's Fresh Air

I went on a writing jag today. More of the CR inspired story of life in America after we get closed down, stickered, and sold for parts.

American Apocalypse, an excerpt:

I heard the knock at the door. It startled me. For a second I thought I was back in my room. Max’s voice cut through the door “Fifteen minutes until dinner. Be out front.” I heard his door shut and the sound of the plumbing running. I got up, ran a comb through my hair, a toothbrush over my teeth, and I was ready for showtime. I went outside and stood around. Men and women were straggling in to eat. Some of them had children in tow. The children were well dressed and better behaved. Very few were in any kind of uniform, yet it was easy to picture them in one. These were soldiers, and looking at them, my guess was they were good ones.

for the rest: 401 Authorization Required 
plus some other posts by brand name CR peoples...

I believe that it is these highly discretionary jobs that will be hit by far the hardest. The "service economy" is littered with overhead.

It could be because the people they were hired to service no longer are able to pay for their time.
No, not sexual reference. My WAG is that half the service industry could go away tommorow and no one would notice.

"""I can't believe I am saying this, but I actually felt for the owner of the bank."""

They were under a cease and desist order from the regulators, so the problems were of their own making to a certain extent.

Seems a loan made at the top of the cycle would require more "equity" so as to protect the shareholders. But of course many bankers are into growth not profits.

Excellent. Currencies back in play in Asia:

Currency Defense Drops on Ringgit, Won on Exports (Update2) - Bloomberg.com

Hang Seng taking a pounding too.

C

Just watched the Buffet interview on CNBC. Has that guy just become a mouthpiece for the administration? The only really cogent point I picked out of his conversation was the fact that Treasuries have rough days ahead, although I think I may have interpreted what he said in a way he didn't intend.

Also, does ANYONE here believe that 6500 is the bottom for the Dow?

C,

Any guesses at where the pound will be by this summer?

118 to 122 against the dollar?

ova --

118 to 122 against the dollar?

You mean 1.18 to 1.22?

my comment was eaten. Well, it was all calories and no substance.

C,

Where doth thou think the pound is headed?

I believe that it is these highly discretionary jobs that will be hit by far the hardest

There's a great deal of hand-worked software which is marginal. I did two projects where we had a clean slate and generic specifications and the productivity difference is truly astounding. At the extremes - one project with seven people @ 16 months produced a grand total 50 or so java classes. One year later, four people produced 12,000 classes in six months.

400 man-hours per class versus
20 minutes per class

That's two orders of magnitude difference. Plus, the generated code is far more reliable. The trick is that it's not as customizable per specific user request.

Lots of ego.

It could be because the people they were hired to service no longer are able to pay for their time.
No, not sexual reference. My WAG is that half the service industry could go away tommorow and no one would notice.

Half may be a little high but I actually wouldn't be surprised to see it get close to that. Deployment and not necessarily unavailability of Internet services to handle most customer interface issues are still in their infancy because of the "high touch" emphasis. There is major change in the wings.

The comment section is freaking out

You must be new here.

If we can dissolve banks that are too large and cause systemic risk, we should start with the Federal Reserve.

"...most customer interface issues are still in their infancy because of the "high touch" emphasis."

What's that?

Pavel, I may be mistaken, But I took the point to mean we are headed for an ever increasing automated interface.

Just watched the Buffet interview on CNBC. Has that guy just become a mouthpiece for the administration?

Worse. Like David Lereah and so many before him he's just befuddled when the world has changed around him leaving him polishing collar stays and bemoaning the heyday when buggy whips were the new iPod.

"the world has changed around him leaving him polishing collar stays and bemoaning the heyday when buggy whips were the new iPod."

I think this is very important. All the value investing standards, insider contacts, derivatives and day-trading experience does him nor any of the CNBC pundits any good in guessing whats next in an environment of a collapsing debt bubble of this magnitude. And this is just the fallout from the collapse of the MBS and derivatives bubble. If the UK stops buying T-Bills or can't because of a currency collapse, then all bets are off.

Any guesses at where the pound will be by this summer?

118 to 122 against the dollar?

Which way? [ducks] Seriously the Pound is tettering on becoming the new Icelandic Krona x10.

What's that?

Because most businesses emphasized “high touch” in their customer relationship management. It is not by accident that John Naisbitt coined the term in the early 80s. This trend is in for a major overhaul in the next few years.

Pound will remain 16 ounces!

What small bank owners haven't learned is to write astronomical derivative contracts (preferably w/GS or JPM) that payout in the event of their failure. Screw the FDIC. Go straight to the source for your real insurance policy, and become systemically important. OK Mr. FDIC officer, but if you shut me down GS has to pay (an offshore account) 47 billion dollars. Issue retention bonus, rinse, repeat...

And another thing, does Sheila realize the irony in conducting "secret auctions" to sell generally small bank assets to larger ones (guess how does gets invited to a secret auction) all while decrying large banks and calling for them to be broken up?

“The bold effort the present (central) bank had made to control the government ... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it.” -Andrew Jackson

anon: you get invited to the secret auction by 1 proximity 2 FDIC charter 3 not being on the watch list

The problem with analogies with the 30s is that you can't generate verifiable predictions from them. You can't develop a scientific protocol in this case because results are not repeatable and the variants are not controllable or limited. Economics on any sort of interesting scale is not a science. That doesn't mean it's invalid or worthless. It means that its power to predict is limited.

But there's something I find fascinating. Atmospheric carbon loading lessened in the early 90s, the apparent direct correlation being the fall of the SU and the dissolution of part of its industrial activity. There's an interface, globally, between the physical world and an economic system. And there are others, which can be demonstrated, and will be demonstrated, not only physically but socially, politically, even psychologically.

We will see changes on all levels of discourse.

"Pound will remain 16 ounces!"

I heard this once:

What's the difference between the pound, the ruble and the dollar?

A pound of rubles is equal to one dollar.

Sorry the link for "high touch" didn't make it into the post.

High touch Definition from PC Magazine Encyclopedia

New Thread: The Coming Expansion of the TALF to include CMBS
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2009/03/coming-expansion-of-talf-to-include.html ( 0 comments ...You could be FIRST! )

I also post comments to an irc channel as they appear on haloscan. Click for a web irc interface: Mibbit IRC client widget (Or join the irc server directly: irc.realize.org:9996 #calculatedrisk)

CRbot would like to take this time to have some words.

First, to our sagacious, wise, and knowing benevolent benefactor and bestower of revealing financial charts adorned with red and blue lines:
Please, for the love of your immortal God of mortals, can we keep the comment and layout changes to a minimum? I'm tired of whipping the code janitor, and may have to escalate to electroshock. If that's not possible, could you possibly give CRbot a 'heads up'?

Secondly, if you wish to have a online chat, I have graciously provided an IRC channel, which is a time tested, script kiddie abused method of chatting on the internet. It would not fail or falter due to CR's ability to generate immense traffic, and it has a web interface kindly produced by mibbit.com. If you do not wish to link to Mibbit IRC client widget then I can provide you with a direct link to mibbit.

Thirdly, to the rest of you humans, don't mistake my politeness for caring, feeling, empathy, or some other kind of worthless emotion.

--Your keeps-going-and-going-and-going bot

CRbot: Like the terminator, I'm back. Again.

CR bot, You are really Twitter arent you Smile

Not sure about the DOW. But if you extrapolate the S&P, the bottom is somewhere near....zero. The 1yr chart is ugly.

Is this how they came up with DOW 36,000?

FWIW, lots of P&F are showing "0" as price targets.

BLUE POET IN A RED STATE
Anthology bound in the flag
and pages from the Holy Bible
About to be remaindered to heaven’s Halliburton retail outlet
Two sunny days in a row defy a foggy tendency
Is it mind or Pacific sea undergoing change?
Does fear encourage or inhibit change?
Both, both. It’’s all the same
I’m a Blue Poet in a Red State preparing for escalation
Who knows?

Nothing certain, it seems
House full or empty or never built
It’’s not a thing this material passion
Domestic possession

& Self-styled Saviors of Humanity?]
Shadows and light
Elegiac tuning of transitions etched
on historic memory, I quote:
I’’m a Blue Poet in a Red State preparing for damnation
Who won the war? Tell me!
The good, the bad, or the ugly?
We’’re all god’’s children believe it or not

You see, we’’re just making our own way
counting on Grace. Nobody’’s got
a monopoly on Hubris
There’’s room for us all in America!

moving and paying the price doesn’’t seem so extreme
It’’s a way of life, you’’re buying into
California! Open space and museums
In Miami art is a customized workshop of fashion:

\tstrife is always temporary and
\t\tAmerica will be America again
Buying time on CNN and space on the Brooklyn Bridge!>
Florida has gone the way of the panther
N
A political dancer. One step at a time and overtime
This is a divided nation
A Blue Poet in a Red State preparing for the duration
<Enemies at the gate, while our emperor seeks deification
A Blue Poet in a Red State fears annihilation>
A blue poet in a red state is the third sex, enough eunuch

There’’s room for us all in Amem a Blue Poet in a Red State preparing for evacuation
A resolution revelation, buy an overpriced house!
It’s all starting to look different
now. The enormous numbers,
moving and paying the price doesn’’t seem so extreme
It’’s a way of life, you’’re buying into
California! Open space and museums
In Miami art is a customized workshop of fashion:
[Satan glitz or Jesus-jihad drab.]
<So we start our peace and justice centers and learn to study Zen
Hose down our copies of Steppenwolf and tell ourselves that
\tstrife is always temporary and
\t\tAmerica will be America again
Buying time on CNN and space on the Brooklyn Bridge!>
Florida has gone the way of the panther
Nearly extinct or extinct, that’’s the answer.

You have to be quick on your feet
A political dancer. One step at a time and overtime
This is a divided nation
A Blue Poet in a Red State preparing for the duration
<Enemies at the gate, while our emperor seeks deification
A Blue Poet in a Red State fears annihilation>
A blue poet in a red state is the third sex, enough
Your limits, not staying in your place, not staying put,
Not knowing when to stop, when to go back, to turn
Left, right or center. I’m not blind or insensitive but
A survivor, on tele vision, where I tell of the vision of the Virgin Mary
And the sandwich. And people applaud, and oh how I love

The Independent
A nation divided by the recession -
Home News, UK - The Independent

A nation divided by the recession
"The spectre of a "two-nation Britain" – a subject talked of by Benjamin Disraeli in Victorian times"

It read like a Dickens novel to me.......... There is some arguing over mandatory retirement age.

Pavel - BINGO! Shirley, pay the man.

[The CR Board waits teethgrinding in apprehension in case C does yet another Karl Popper post].

Well, moving right along the pound is basically a slice of carbonized wheat product staple at the moment. The policy swerves in the last week haven't suggested to me that Merv and co know what they're doing, and as I've joked around a bit before, I think there's some loss-leading going on with UK monetary policy laying the relatively quarantined ground for Timmmay and BB to do with the Big Game. Very high stakes.

But really, we have to see if buying gilts really does have any meaningful QE impact, and what the transmission channels are, to what end use, with what unintended effects, and how that might play to (jointly and severally) fin mkt effects and real economy lags, wherever we consider appropriate to find indicators.

I still think this is Thar Be Dragons territory and we're not even sure what the dragons look like any more.

Skol!

C

Britain's biggest problem is that they never woke up and realized the US doesn't have their back anymore. "Hey, Uncle Sam? Sorry about that burning the Capitol and stuff but you remember those last few times you rescued the Empire? Well, uhhh... we need another favor. Huh? What's that? You have problems of your own? Well, I'm afraid this won't wat..."

That just gave me a great bank robbery idea. Walk into a bank and say your are the FDIC and walk out with he the cash. Think it would work?

He should have filled his brief case while he had the chance.

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